True Crime All The Time - Chris Benoit Part 2

Episode Date: October 17, 2022

Chris Benoit was a professional wrestler, with some of his peers calling him one of the best wrestlers of all time. On June 25th, 2007, the Fayette County Sheriff’s Office responded to a welfare check requested by World Wrestling Entertainment. Police officers entered the home of Chris Benoit and found the pro wrestler, his wife, and his son dead in what looked like a murder-suicide. Join Mike and Gibby for episode 2 on Chris Benoit. Although it seemed like Chris had everything: money, fame, and a beautiful family, he was struggling with intense grief, steroid abuse, and a volatile relationship with his wife. It was also discovered that Chris suffered from Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy, or CTE, and it was most likely caused by the numerous concussions he had while wrestling. The autopsy results, Chris's brain examination, and details uncovered through the investigation reveal quite a bit about this case.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 305 of the True Crime All The Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, give me, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good. How about yourself? I'm doing very well. I'm glad to hear that you're doing well. Also, we've got some really good episodes on TAP this weekend. Obviously, during this one, we're finishing up part with part two on Chris Benoit. We'll get into that in a minute. But on True Crime All the Time Unsolved. We have an episode out right now on Gareth Williams. And this is also a two-parter.

So this is part one. Yeah, we're headed over to beautiful Great Britain. And we're going to dive into a little background of Gareth. And then we're going to go ahead and dive into the actual murder. It's very mysterious. And it involves some of those three-letter acronym agencies. Yeah. I think this is one that people are really going to be fascinated by.

So make sure you check that out. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. Emily Andrews jumped down to our highest level. Well, thank you, Emily. Linda Sinclair. Hey, Linda. Raina Talaback. What's going on, Raina?

Durel Luna. Hey, Dorel. Kevin Rose. Hey, what's up, Rose? Angie Johnson. There's Angie. Mehek Sandu. What's going on, Sandu?

Teresa Shrach. Hey, Teresa. Sheila Torres. What's up? Sheila. Julie McKenna. Hey, Julie. Sarah Zartalamna.

Zartalama. That's what I'm going with. Sarah Brown. Oh, that's a tough one, Sarah. Tina Chang. Hey, Tina. Landon Heisey. What's it going on, Heissy?

Kathy. Hey, Kathy. Don Caten. Appreciate that, Don. Sierra. Hey, Sarah. Tammy. Well, got to like it.

Tammy. Okay. Stacey Krogerus. Well, thank you, Stacy. Sabrina Stanberry. Well, Sabrina like the witch. See, it's getting close to Halloween. Oh, I see how you're making that connection.

Yeah. Although you did just call one of our Patreon members of which. Well, you know, she's a good witch. Yeah, I didn't say that, Sabrina. That was Gibby. Kathy Rayburn-Trobach. What's going on, Kathy? Neurotick.

Well, what's up, Tick? Sonia Power jumped out of our highest level. Hey, appreciate that so much, Sonia. And Karen Dahl did as well at jump out to our highest level. That's amazing. Thank you, Karen. So we appreciate that new support. And then if we go back into the vault,

this week, we select. Hannah Potts. There's Hannah. Thank you, Hannah. Yeah. So love the new, the continued support. We had one really great PayPal donation and that was from Deanna Johnson. There's Deanna coming through.

Thank you, Deanna. Thank you. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? Man, I am ready. So in part one of the Chris Benoit episodes, we discussed his early life. We talked a lot about his wrestling career. And we really got into kind of, you know,

his personal life, his marriages, although it seemed like Chris had everything. And it really did, right? The guy had money, he had fame. He had a beautiful family. Yeah, it was all going his way. It was. But at the same time, there's no doubt he was struggling with intense grief, which we talked about some of that. Right. Stereid abuse and a very volatile relationship with his wife. So in part two, we'll discuss the full investigation into the Benoit family tragedy. And I'll make the same disclaimer that I made in episode one. This episode does discuss domestic abuse and suicide. So it was on June 26 that the Fayette County Sheriff's Office confirmed that Chris

Benoit murdered his wife and son and that he hanged himself in the wait room of his home. According to the CBC, Sheriff Tommy Pope said in a news conference, we are now looking at this case and ruling it as a double homicide suicide. So I think Gibbs at first glance, when the authorities walk in on a scene like that, I think that's a pretty natural determination to make. Yeah, I think it's that difficult. Now, we may dive into it because there are some people, I even heard from some after episode one that do not believe Chris Benoit killed anyone or took his own life.

Well, that is a rabbit hole. We can certainly go down. So police began putting together a full timeline of the weekend. The autopsy found that Nancy and Daniel were killed just hours apart. Nancy was killed on Friday, June 22nd, 2007. She was found. wrapped in a towel in the home office. Her wrists and ankles were tied. Nancy had blood under her head, which indicated that there must have been, you know,

some type of struggle. According to DA Chris Ballard, Nancy had a bruise on the small of her back, as if someone put their knee on her. And she was strangled with a court. A Bible was found near her body. Her official cause of death was asphyxia. Daniel Benoit was killed in his bedroom on the morning of June 23rd. He was found in his bed with a Bible near his body.

D.A. Chris Ballard told ABC that Daniel might have been put in a chokehold. His cause of death was also ruled as asphyxiation. Daniel was found with needle marks in his arm. Now, police initially thought he was being injected with human growth hormone. because of his small size. Such a very personal way to kill somebody. Asphyxation usually is, but especially, you know, if this DA is right and Daniel was killed through the use of a chokehold. Man, you talk about up close, personal, nasty. So the following is a more detailed timeline of the remainder of the weekend.

As we talked about in part one, on July 23, 2007, Chris Benoit was scheduled to appear at WWE Smackdown in Texas at 3.30 p.m., Chris's friend Chavo Guerrero received a voice message from Chris saying he missed his flight because he oversleft and he would be late to the event. So Guerrero called him. Chris confirmed what he said in his voice message. According to Guerrero, He sounded tired and groggy. He also said that Chris told him he loved him on the phone, which he told a number of different papers, was out of context. You can always tell, right, when a friend says something like that to you, they never say it to you before. It's definitely something awry.

Well, you and I have been friends for a long time. Right. You know, if you called me on your way home and said, you know what, man, I just want to tell you. I love you. Yeah. I would think it's a little odd. Yeah. Just because it's not something that you and I say to each other a lot.

Well, I used to say it to you all the time, but you would never say it back. Well, and it led to that restraining order and then things got really messy. But I'm with you. You know if you've got a good friend. Right. Kind of what phrases they use. And really, more importantly, what phrases do they not use? Well, there you go.

Because that's what really sticks out. Sure. At 342, Guerrero called Chris again because, as he said, he was concerned about his behavior, Chris didn't answer. So Guerrero left a message saying, just call me back. Just two minutes later, Chris called Guerrero back and said, he didn't answer because he was speaking with Delta trying to change his flight. He said he had a stressful day because Nancy and Daniel were sick with food poisoning.

So these two guys spoke about their travel play. plans for the WWE Tour of Texas, Chavo asked if he was okay. And Chris told him that he was really tired. But again, Chris sounded very, very groggy. So after his wife and son were killed, he had a call with his friend and said that they were both sick. Well, what are you going to say? You're either going to tell a lie or you're just going to try not to say anything at all. Obviously, you can't tell the truth if that's what really happened. At 4.3rd, Another coworker who often travel with Chris called him from outside the Houston airport. Chris answered the phone and told this person that Nancy was vomiting blood and Daniel was also

vomiting. He believed they had food poisoning. Chris said he changed his flight and would be in Houston at 6.30 p.m. He told the coworker to drive to the WWE event. So my first thought is, why are you saying anything at all? And the only thing that I can really come up with is that you're trying to set the stage for obviously what is going to, you know, come later. Right. Maybe he's not sure what he's going to do at this point in time.

Sounds like maybe he was contemplating, maybe turning himself in. Maybe there were a lot of different things that was, you know, running through his mind. At 535, Chris called WWW. talent relations and told them that Daniel was vomiting and he and Nancy were at the hospital with him. He said he'd be taking a later flight but would still make it to the event in Beaumont, Texas. At 610, a talent relations rep called Chris and this rep asked him what time he'd be in

Beaumont. Chris said he was leaving Atlanta at 920 Eastern and we'll get to Houston at 924 p.m. Central. The rep told him it would be too late to make it to the event. Chris apologized, told this person he had a family emergency. The rep told him that he should still fly to Houston and get ready for the vengeance event the next day. So not only are you, you know, telling people things about your wife and son that can't possibly be true. But it's almost as if you're trying to move forward and go to these events and make these events. Right. It's like you're trying to stay business as usual.

Yeah, that's what it sounds like. At 6.13 p.m., the rep called Chris to reconfirm his travel plans. Chris didn't answer. So this rep told him to take his flight and rest before the vengeance event the next day. So there's a series of phone calls here, right? Over kind of less than a three-hour span. Then on Sunday, June 24th, several messages were sent from both. Chris and Nancy's cell phones to coworkers.

W.W.E did originally post the text messages, but then later removed them from their website, but the text were retrieved by the New York Daily News. So Chris texted two coworkers that he spoke with on June 23rd. At 353 a.m., he sent the text message, CS. My physical address is 130, Green Meadow Lane, Fayetteville, Georgia, 30215. Almost immediately, he sent another text message to these two coworkers saying the dogs are in the enclosed pool area, garage side door is open. Nancy's cell phone texted these same two people.

About a minute later, 354 a.m. C.S. My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane, Fayetteville, Georgia, 302. 215. And then a minute later, Nancy's phone texted the same two people, the exact same text message. At 358, Nancy's cell phone texted a coworker who often traveled with Chris. The same message. My address is 130, Green Meadow Lane, Fayetteville, Georgia, 30215. So bizarre. Well, essentially, the same text message, at least four times, in the span of five minutes,

some of them going to the same individuals multiple times and some going to different people. Let's not forget, it's like 350 something in the morning. I think you have to factor that in as well. Right. Who's texting at 358 in the morning? Why are you just sending me your address?

Right. And where's the context? What does it mean? Be like, okay, that's nice. What else would you say? Right. So, WWE attempted to contact Chris,

via phone, by a text. They also called local hospitals in Atlanta. So obviously they were worried about him by this point in time. On June 24th, Chris Benoit hanged himself in his basement wait room by 11 p.m. On the 24th, no one had heard from him. And what the authorities came to believe was that he sent all of these texts to help someone find the bodies before. Too much time had passed. And so that does make some sense, right?

If you've already killed your wife and son and you're planning on ending your life, who's planning on coming over and can get in the house and will find you? Right. Could it be three days? Could it be a week? Could it be two weeks? And does it make sense that somebody would not want it to be an extended period of time? Yeah, of course.

On June 25th at 1230 p.m., WWE learned about the text messages that were sent out the day before. At 1245 p.m., they contacted the Fayetteville County Sheriff's Office and asked for a welfare check. At 4 p.m., they received the call from the Sheriff's Office informing them that they had entered the Benoit residents and found three bodies, a man, a woman, and a child. according to an article from Wrestling Inc. posted on July 3rd, 2007, Chris's neighbor, Holly McFaig, was actually the one who found the bodies.

We kind of talked about this briefly in episode one. The Benoit's had these dogs that were preventing the police from entering the house, but the dogs were familiar with her. So she was able to, you know, get them under control and they would allow her to enter the home. but she ran out screaming because she found Nancy and Daniel. McFag's representative said she had to leave her home due to the massive media attention. I can only imagine how much attention was there. Well, Chris Benoit was a star in the world of wrestling.

Sure. This was a big story. So you and I talk all the time about, okay, what would it be like to find a dead body? In this case, two dead bodies, it might hold. haunt your dreams, right? For a very long time. Sure. Cause you a lot of mental anguish and problems. But here's the other side of this that we don't always see because this is such a high profile case. Because Chris Benoit was such a high profile person, everybody is going to descend on this house, on this neighborhood. They're going to hound this woman. They want to talk to her. Yeah. You don't always have that in every case and every

city in America or in the world for that matter. McFagg also reported seeing Chris on Saturday the 23rd and said that he told her that Nancy and Daniel were sick with food poisoning. So obviously this was something that he had come up with. Yeah, his story. It was a story he had come up with. I don't know how well thought out it was. I don't know where his head was at. I still don't know what he was planning on doing with that information.

or what that was going to ultimately set up. Investigators started looking into how steroid use might have contributed to the tragedy. I think it's pretty well known, right? Steroid abuse is linked to Roy Rage or outbursts of anger. Yeah, it can be pretty violent. The sheriff came out and confirmed that anabolic steroids and legal prescriptions were found in the home. They did not know at the time if Chris Benoit would, was using the steroids.

Fox News reported that Lieutenant Tommy Pope from the sheriff's department said there was a lot of prescription medication that he had received from doctors with what we believe to be at this time legal prescriptions. And that word steroids can often be very misleading. You can go to the doctor and the doctor can give you a steroid shot right in the office. Oh, yeah. sometimes because steroids are very beneficial. Yeah, I get them a few times a year.

Whether you need them or not. Exactly. You just walk in and say, hey, hook me up, need them. Need them. That's right. I can't tell you why I need them. I just need them. I just need it.

But obviously when a lot of people think steroids, especially with this case or with, you know, sports, you're thinking the anabolic steroids, the performance enhancing type of steroids. On June 26th, the WWE released. the statement saying that Chris Binwah tested negative for steroids on April 10th, 2007. And they added that the physical findings announced by the authorities indicate deliberation, not rape.

So in my mind, there's a couple of things here. First of all, and we talked about it briefly in episode one, they have to immediately distance themselves from Chris Benoit. Well, for sure. And they did that, right? they had to walk some things back. They had to take some things off of their website. But here you have them putting out a statement,

not only trying to distance themselves from Chris, but also distance themselves from the notion, uh, that their wrestlers are using performance enhancing steroids. Right. Because that's a big deal. It is a huge deal. According to ABC, Chris Benoit was tested in April as part of W.

of W.E's 2006 talent wellness program that included an aggressive substance abuse and drug testing policy. Now, steroid use was linked to several pro wrestler deaths before Chris. His close friend Eddie Guerrero died of heart failure in November 2005 and his death was linked to long-term steroid use. Definitely some very bad side effects of steroids. Yeah, I mean, Let's go way beyond the, what they term, Royd rage or the outbursts of anger. I think it's been scientifically proven that it can cause some really bad things within your body. And this is aside from, you know, kind of the stereotypical stuff that people joke about, right?

Make your grapes smaller and all that stuff. I'm talking about like real medical issues. For sure. Although nobody wants their grapes really to be smaller. No. Never. But you don't want them huge either. I'll take your word on that. I don't know where you're coming from, what place you're coming from. Imagine having one extra day every week. More time to cook healthy meals, work on that novel or just binge some good true crime documentaries. What would you do with your extra day every week? Well, now it's all possible with ClickUp the productivity platform that'll save you one day a week on work, guaranteed. ClickUp began with the premise that productivity was broken. There were too many tools to keep track up. ClickUp is the one tool to house all your tasks, projects, docs, goals, spreadsheets, and more. ClickUp is built for teams from one to over a thousand. And it's

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On June 27, 2007, Chris Benoit's personal physician, Dr. Phil Aston, told the Associated Press that he last saw Chris Benoit on. June 22nd, 2007. So that wasn't very long, you know, before all of this kind of took place, just days. He said he prescribed Chris testosterone because he had low testosterone levels. According to Dr. Aston, Chris did not seem distressed. All right, testosterone, it's pretty common nowadays. I think a lot of men take that. No doubt as you get older, your testosterone levels drop. Sure. It's just a fact.

Gotta supplement it somehow. But what I think is important here is him saying he didn't seem distressed. You can make of that what you will. Maybe he wasn't distressed, you know, on the 22nd. Right. Maybe that happened the next day on the 23rd. But that same day, Fayetteville County officials announced they were investigating a link between Chris Benoit and a company called Medex.

Life. MedX Life sold steroids online and was under investigation for illegal steroid sales. In June 2007, an official told CNN that Chris's name was on receipts indicating he had purchased anabolic steroids and human growth hormones from signature pharmacy in Orlando, Florida. And that company was under investigation for illegally selling steroids. On the 27th, W.W.E. Attorney Jerry McDavitt made the statement that Daniel Benoit had something called Fragile X syndrome and that his condition was taking a difficult toll on Chris and Nancy. And I'll be honest with he gives, this is something that I'd never heard of before. Fragile X syndrome. But when you look it up, it comes up as a genetic condition inherited from

parents, which results in various developmental problems like, intellectual disabilities and cognitive impairment. So it doesn't sound good. It sounds like it could have a lot of negative side effect, you know, cause a lot of negative issues, but it's very rare. One thing I saw said there were fewer than 200,000 cases per year in the U.S. There's no known cure, but there are treatments to help manage the condition. During the police investigation, while the public was still trying to understand exactly what happened, A Wikipedia edit caused further confusion. On June 28, 2007, Wikimedia Foundation spokeswoman Sandra Ordnets confirmed ABC that a Wikipedia user edited the Chris Benoit page and wrote that Nancy Benoit died before the police found the bodies.

Chris Benoit's biography was edited at 12.01 a.m. on Monday, June 25th, but the police didn't interpret. the Benoit home until 2.30 p.m. The post said Chris Benoit was replaced by Johnny Nitro for the Extreme Championship Wrestling Championship match at vengeance as Benoit was not there due to personal issues stemming from the death of his wife, Nancy. So that's pretty interesting that somebody edited this Wikipedia page and said that Nancy was dead before police. police even got inside that house. Yeah. Now, it's also one of the problems with Wikipedia, right? Anybody can pretty much go in there and edit and do whatever they want. But you could see why a lot of people would think that's very strange. Right. According to Wiki News,

within an hour of the post, the edit was changed and a comment added need a reliable source. You see that quite a bit if you ever get on Wikipedia. It also said, saying that it his wife died is a pretty big statement. You need to back it up with something. I agree. Another hour passed and then another edit was made adding, according to several pro wrestling websites to the end of the statement. Then the edit was changed 20 minutes later with another comment saying per several pro wrestling websites is still not reliable information. Wikimedia Foundation learned about the posting and an employee left a message to Fayette, police around 11 a.m. on June 26th, they gave them the IP address of the user. They also locked

the Chris Benoit page to prevent further edits. Ordenez confirmed that they gave this information to the police and also that this individual's IP address had been flagged in the past for vandalizing other Wikipedia pages, specifically wrestling related. Early on the 29th, the user confessed in a posting on wiki news, the confession matched the IP address that edited Chris Benoit's wiki page. The user said they were deeply sorry and the post was a terrible coincidence. But the user did not identify themselves in this apology post. They did say they were from Stanford, Connecticut, where W.W.E was founded, but they did not claim to be connected to W.W.E. in any way. But obviously, Gibbs, the police are going to want to check into this.

Well, sure. You're going to become concerned when someone, it seems, knows about a death or deaths before anyone else. So they attempted to track the IP address down. They traced the posting to this IP address in Connecticut. Local police went and they seized the computer from the user, they declined to name the person at the time. But they did say that if this person had knowledge of the murders before the police found the bodies, they could face criminal charges. Okay, you're not really going out on the limb there. No. I get what they're saying. On June 28th, the police confirmed that federal drug agents and sheriff's officials conducted a raid of the office of Dr. Phil Aston to search for medical and prescription records. On June, you know, the judge. On

July 2nd, Phil Aston was charged with improperly dispensing painkillers and other drugs. He was charged with seven counts. The complaint stated that he wrote prescriptions for approximately one million doses of controlled substances over a two-year period. Wow. That is a big, big number. It is. The DEA called these prescriptions excessive for a sole practitioner in a rural area.

Aston pleaded not guilty. That would be excessive, it seems like, if you had a big, huge practice in downtown Los Angeles. Yeah. But if you're out in the middle of, you know, rural Georgia, yeah. Police are going to think, okay, something really is going on here. It was like his number got passed around a few times. Phil Aston was put on house arrest under a $125,000 bond.

CNN reported that Chris Benoit's name. name was not mentioned in the indictment, but according to the U.S. Attorney's Office, through prescription records for Mr. Benoit, maintained at a pharmacy in Fayetteville, Georgia, Dr. Aston was identified as prescribing, on average, a 10-month supply of anabolic steroids to Mr. Benoit every three to four weeks from May 4th, 2006 through May 9th, 2007. So a 10 months supply every three or four weeks. Basically every month. Yeah.

That's a lot of Reuters. Yeah. So what do you make of that? Either he's taking much more than what the prescription calls for. Right. Or those steroids are going to somebody else. Yeah. I think those are the two things that you can make from that.

On July 3rd, Fayette County prosecutor Scott Ballard, stated in a news released that they reviewed some of Daniel Benoit's medical records and they don't mention any preexisting mental or physical impairment. So this goes back to this whole fragile X syndrome. Right. That, you know, an attorney came out and claimed that he had, they didn't find it in any of his prior medical records. And we mentioned it, right? It was this W.W.E. Attorney Jerry McDevitt who had made the statements about this fragile X syndrome. He also said that Chris and Nancy argued over whether he should stay home or to take care of Daniel.

Prosecutor Scott Ballard said that investigators found needle marks on Daniel's arms. He was told Daniel's parents thought he was undersized and they were giving him growth hormone. A kid, a lot of kids are undersized. But man, at that age, that seems like a very powerful. powerful thing to give a seven-year-old. It does. You know, I do think in rare occasions, though, they do that, but man. Well, okay, they do that, but under maybe the supervision of a doctor.

Yeah. But is that what we have here? Because it's not sounding to me like it is. It sounds to me as though Chris could get his hands on that. And they were just thinking, okay, we'll give him some and see what happens. Now, I don't know that to be. be the truth, but W.W.E. spokesman

Gary Davis said on July 3rd that McDevitt saw a Canadian news report, implying Daniel had fragile X syndrome, and he felt confident that this was accurate. After speaking with some employees who knew Chris Benoit, Gary

Davis also said they had no information to contradict Scott Ballard's statement. So I don't know, these are some pretty big statements to come out and make when you have in verified the fact, right? And this is an attorney. This isn't just a layperson. You would think there'd be a little more digging to make sure that this statement that you're putting out is correct. On July 17th, the press conference was held announcing the toxicology results from Chris,

Nancy, and Daniels autopsies. Nancy tested positive for Xanax, hydrocodone, and hydromorphone. But investigators couldn't test the exact levels at her time of death due to decomposition. Nancy's blood alcohol level was 0.184. But they couldn't tell if she had actually ingested any alcohol because they said this high blood alcohol content level could have been caused by decomposition. Oh, well, makes it more difficult to really know what's going on. It was also said that the drugs found in Nancy. body were at a quote therapeutic level, but could have been lowered than they were when she died,

again, due to decomposition. So yeah, I guess it does make it tough from that respect. But I did kind of want to talk about some of these drugs. All right, Xanax. I think there are a lot of people that take Xanax and or a similar drug. Sure. Hydrocodone is prescribed, you know, a lot for, pain and different things. Right. Hydromorphone, I'm not exactly sure what that is.

Me neither. Sounds powerful. Yeah, maybe I want some. Because to me, it sounds like morphine. Yes. And I've talked about morphine quite a bit as it relates to my kidney stones. I know how powerful that is. I mean how much you enjoyed it? And how much I enjoyed it. But I think, you know, at the heart of it is the question. Did she take these drugs herself, prescribed, not prescribed, whatever, or were these drugs used to sedate her? Dr. Chris Sperry of the GBI said there was no evidence. Nancy was sedated, but there was evidence that Daniel was. Fox News reported that Daniel had elevated levels of Xanax in his body. Dr. Sperry said it is our opinion that Daniel Benoit was sedated by Xanax at the time that he

was murdered. So that means he was sedated prior to the time that he died. I just said a lot of people take Xanax or a drug similar to it. I know it's being prescribed to teenagers. I don't know how many seven-year-olds are taking Xanax on a regular basis. Probably more than we realize. Probably because I don't know. I only know my kids weren't taking anything like that when they were that age. But I think that would have been an easy thing to figure out. Yeah. He's not. He's, He's either got a prescription for that or not. And my thought is he probably did. Probably did not.

The medical examiner was unable to test levels of human growth hormone in Daniel's body because of a lack of urine. Fox News reported that Chris Benoit had Xanax and hydrocodone at therapeutic levels in his body, but tested negative for blood alcohol. Testosterone was found at elevated levels in his body, which most likely may be. meant he was taking it before he died. Dr. Chris Berry said, this level of testosterone indicates that he had been using testosterone at least within some reasonably short period of time prior to the time that he died.

Although testosterone was found in Chris Benoit's urine, there is no evidence of any other of the illegal types of steroids or the whole laundry list of anabolic steroids that are out there to be used. The presence of the testosterone alone even could be an indicator that he was being treated for testicular insufficiency. Oh, there's a big word. And does that mean small grapes? I don't know. They're insufficient. Were they made insufficient because of steroid use? Absolutely. That could have could have. Could have. We don't know. The toxicology report revealed that despite passing the WWE wellness checks, Chris Benoit was taking testosterone. Dr. Sparry also said, there is no reliable scientific data that conclusively says that

elevated levels of administered testosterone lead to excessive rage or behavioral disorders. All the testing that's been done regarding that has been completely inconclusive. So I think we've got to break this down. Yeah, I think we do. So we've got testosterone for sure. But you have this doctor saying that the toxicology report doesn't show evidence of these illegal types of steroids, these anabolic steroids that, you know, we commonly kind of associate with this roid rage syndrome. So I think when all of this came out, it kind of led to the question.

If Chris Benoit didn't kill his family because of Royd rage, why did he do it? Yeah. What was the driving force? Because let's not forget. At this point, their working theory is that Chris Benoit killed Nancy and Daniel and then he hanged himself. Christopher Nguinsky and neuroscientist and former pro wrestler who worked with Chris speculated that repeated concussions could have caused his actions. According to the New York Times, Nguinsky said he was one of the only guys who would take a chair shot to the back

of the head, which is stupid. Nguinsky himself had to retire from wrestling because of concussions. So this kind of goes back to our discussion in episode one about, you know, how fake is it? We know it's scripted, but we also know that these guys take a tremendous amount of abuse. They sure do. to their body. Yeah. In the name of entertainment.

Yeah. So if you're getting hit, and I mean hit, really hit with a chair in the back of the head. This guy is calling it stupid because I think it's pretty well proven that falling backwards or hitting the back of your head goes a long way towards kind of causing a lot of these concussions. I think a lot of people get them that way. According to Chris Jericho on the dark side of the ring. He said it was a badge of honor to take a chair shot to the head in the 1990s.

But if you had a concussion in wrestling, you just shook it off, shake it off, go in there and do it. All of us did it. And this is something that you hear about in a lot of different sports. You know, football was the same way. They didn't know back then everything they know today about concussions. There really was no concussion protocol. No.

It was man up and get back out there regardless of what you're experiencing. Yeah. And I think a lot of football players, any sport, that was kind of the mentality. I have to man up. If I can't do it, I'm letting my team down. I'm going to be seen as weak. And it, you know, it was a decision made that was very detrimental to many people. but also you have that other driving factor that if I don't do it,

someone's going to come in that will do it. And maybe they might play better than me or they're better than me. Right. And then I lose my spot. Yeah, that's a good point as well. Now, obviously today, especially in the NFL, they have this protocol that kind of takes it out of the player's hand, which it really is the way that it should be.

A player is always going to want to go back in if they think they physically can do it. And a lot of times even if they don't think, they're just going to, they're going to want to do it. Nguinsky wrote head games, football's concussion crisis in 2006, about chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which can cause memory loss, depression, and paranoid behavior. He told Dark Side of the Ring that about six months before the murders, he spoke with Chris in the locker room. Chris asked him about his book on concussions. he asked how many concussions Nguyensky had before he was forced to retire. Nguinsky asked him how many he had and Chris answered,

I've had more than I can count. And I'm not so sure, Gibbs, that you wouldn't have heard that from many, many athletes. Prior to all the. What's going on today? Right. Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. Yeah.

There's definitely many of them out there that have multiple concussions. That were unknown because I think the big thing. was a lot of athletes didn't tell people that they were suffering those types of symptoms that a doctor would have then called a concussion because they didn't want to have somebody tell them they couldn't play or whatever it was. They just wouldn't talk about it. Or if you did tell your coach or somebody, they just tell you, get back out that field. That's true. Chris Nguinsky contacted Michael Benoit on June 28 about studying Chris's brain. He suggested having Chris's brain tested for CTE.

According to Nguinsky, they got Chris's brain in early July. Within a month, they knew Chris tested positive for CTE. And you know Chris's family was desperate to understand, you know, why this happened. So they turned over part of Chris's brain to Dr. Julian Bales of the Sports Legacy Institute.

Bales is the head of neurosurgery. at the West Virginia University School of Medicine and the former team physician of the Pittsburgh Steelers. So then he's really familiar with this stuff. Yeah, he's also the founder of the brain injury research institute. He and his colleague Dr. Bennett Amalu studied Chris's brain sample. Dr. Amalu had studied athletes' brains before Chris Benoit. One of them was football player Mike Webster.

Amalu studied Mike Webster's brain and discovered, the disease chronic traumatic encephalopathy, which is caused by repeated head trauma. On September 5th, 2007, experts with the Sports Legacy Institute held a press conference to discuss their test results and explain that Chris Benoit suffered from CT. His brain showed a buildup of tau protein deposits, which trigger the release of phosphorus, which essentially kills brain cells. That can't be good. No.

But according to ESPN, the researcher said there was no evidence that steroid use causes these protein deposits. Dr. Bale said, are massive doses of steroids good? No. But there is no evidence presently that steroids cause brain cells to die. So they know that he had CTE. They know that he had this built up of this protein, which killed brain cells. Right.

What they don't know, apparently, according to this doctor, is whether it's caused by this prolonged steroid use or not. Testing found that Chris had such severe brain damage that it was said his brain resembled an 85-year-old Alzheimer's patient. Wow. that's saying something right there. At his age. Yeah.

It is saying a lot. And you and I have both dealt with family members who have suffered from this type of disease. And we know how debilitating it is, how tough it is on them, but also on the other family members. Oh, very tough. They compared Chris's brain to a. healthy brain, Chris's brain showed advanced dementia in the form of brown clumps or tangles, which basically are brain cells that died from head trauma. It was said that Chris Benoit had brain damage in every section of his brain, including the areas that control emotions or emotional

behaviors. That's really scary when you think about that. Well, I think it's giving you the magnitude. of the type of brain damage that this guy had. And it was said this brain damage was caused by repeated concussions and head trauma from wrestling. We mentioned it, right? He had said to people that he had more concussions than he could even count. He also had similar brain damage to NFL players with severe concussions who later became depressed and hurt themselves or others. And I kind of alluded to this in episode one. This is what

we're starting to see more and more of. Yeah. And, you know, it gets reported on because these are big time athletes. They're famous. So when one of these big time athletes does something, either to someone else or to themselves, it gets more attention. Yeah. Then it would be, if the person was not famous. The person that comes to my mind right off the bat is junior seo, an unbelievable football player. Sure. You know,

one of the best linebackers to ever play the game. He hurt himself. Yeah. And it was later found that he had this CTE and he had this type of severe brain damage from repeated concussions. So we've been talking about this condition. Chronic traumatic encephalopathy, CTE,

it's still being researched by doctors today. Back in the 1920s, physicians began noticing that professional boxers had this thing that back then they called punch drunk syndrome. But the symptoms were very similar to what today is called chronic traumatic encephalopathy. Talking about some potential head damage. Boxers. Yeah. You're getting hit on the head quite a bit.

you think about someone like Muhammad Ali. Yeah. And the things that he, you know, endured later in his life. I think most people attributed a lot of that to, you know, the number of punches that he took. He was kind of almost famous for letting people hit him. Right. To tire them out. Yeah.

And then all of a sudden he would have this burst of energy and he would, you know, they'd be tired, he'd come back and finish him all. Who else had that? Sylvester still out. Rocky. Rocky. Rocky Balboa. Yeah, the only difference is one was real and one was a movie. Oh, Muhammad Lali was a movie? Yeah. ABC reported that Bale said that he couldn't be certain, that brain damage caused

the tragedy. But he said it most likely was a leading cause. We think these changes are not due to steroids. That has never really been studied. But it's never been in the medical literature or any research that shows steroids do this to the brain. These changes in the brain were found in the 1920s before steroids were even invented. So again, this is kind of at the crux of this what caused it to happen question. Yeah. The CTE is there. That part is factual.

It's a scientific. Can't deny it. But what caused it? And what they're saying is we can't prove that the steroid use had anything to do with causing this tragedy. But repeated concussions and all that can cause this CTE, which can cause changes in the brain. Right. In October 2007, court papers filed in the case against Dr. Aston showed that prosecutor said that he prescribed Chris Benoit, more than the normal amount of testosterone.

needed for his hormone disorder. Over a year-long period, Aston wrote him seven prescriptions. If the total amount of medication was broken down by each month, it exceeded FDA guidelines by 50%. Yeah, that's a problem. There's a reason why they set those guidelines. In February 2008,

Fayette County investigators released details from their police report. WSBTV reported that they did not believe anyone else was in the home besides Chris, Nancy, and Daniel, but they still didn't have an exact motive. The report said after careful examination of all evidence collected by investigators, the Fayetteville County Sheriff's Office concludes that between Friday, June 22nd, 2007, and Sunday, June 24th, 2007, Chris Benoit took the lives of his wife, Nancy, and their son, Daniel, before ending his own life. right we already knew this right this was kind of the prevailing theory pretty much from the get go now

they're coming out and saying okay this is what the official police report reads right but they don't have the motive what's the motive according to pro wrestling dot net chris and nancy's marriage was falling apart in the weeks leading up to the murder suicide chris was worried that nancy was going to leave him. Nancy was angry with Chris for his steroid use on May 9th, 2007. She texted Chris, I will not accept this steroid-induced roller coaster ride of emotional abuse. Ignoring the problem or running away isn't going to help you face it. You need professional help. And only if you're fully honest about all of it. In a second text, she wrote, get off the stuff. I'm probably not the only one who can see. And we both know the wellness program is a joke. Well, she's being right to the

point, huh? So in this first text, she mentions emotional abuse. Right. In episode one, we detailed out some physical abuse. Both very bad. They both can be extremely, extremely harmful, damaging, nasty. But also, she's coming right out and saying it. You just said, steroids are causing you to act this way. Get off of them. Nancy told a neighbor she was afraid to go home. After Chris slammed her against the wall, she was angry that Chris was using steroids in one time,

threw them out. So she's worried about these drugs he's taking. She's worried about, you know, how it's affecting his behavior. And number one, because she's experiencing the effects. Right. First hand.

Yeah. Emotionally, physically. But also. So she told people that she felt like he was becoming distant from her and his children. I mean, he definitely had an addiction to these roids, the volume he was taking, or the volume he was being prescribed. And obviously, it seemed as if he was taking them leads you to believe that there was some addiction. Yeah, and I think can addiction take many forms, right? Can you physically get addicted to substances?

this absolutely. People do it all the time. I've made no secret that I'm addicted to caffeine. Yeah. If I don't have my six cups of coffee in the morning, I am not a nice person to be around. But if your wife asked you to get off the caffeine or you're going to lose this family, you know, I sit here and say, well, wouldn't you just get off of it? It's easy as that, right? Shut the machine down, throw out all that coffee stuff over there and get back. on track, but it's an addiction. Right. It's just not that simple.

It's not. It's not so cut and dry. It's not for people who, you know, struggle with addiction. And I, and I'm not making light of addiction by saying I'm addicted to coffee, but I am addicted to coffee. Yeah. Caffeine. And it seemed like she really wasn't too keen on the workplace wellness program, as if it was, that's not how you're going to do it.

You just need to get off it because that program. is not going to work. No, she called it a joke. Obviously, he was getting around it, as I'm sure most of the other wrestlers probably were as well. Of course, yeah. It's kind of like the Olympics testing that we found out so much about over the years. People were getting away with all kinds of stuff. Yeah. Or the Tour de France testing or you name it testing. There's no difference than the drug testing here at the studio. Yeah. Yeah. It's a very strict program, but somehow you keep finding a way around it. I know.

On January 29th, 2009, Dr. Phil Aston pleaded guilty to 75 counts against him. 75 counts. That's a huge amount of counts to get somebody that just tells you how often he was doing this illegal activity. Yeah. And my thought is they pile them up, right? They're going to, they're going to put as many counts against you as they can. Because can you get out of one or.

or two counts, maybe. You're not getting out of 175 counts. Yeah. It's going to be really, really tough. They're going to get you on something. Something's going to stick. He admitted to illegally prescribing drugs. His plea referenced 19 patients that he saw and prescribed hundreds of illegal

prescriptions to. Dr. Aston prescribed Chris Binwa Anabolic steroids. But a medical examiner couldn't say for certain if the steroids led to the murders. Again, we keep coming back to this question. Aston's defense attorney said that his patients from the indictment were a very small subset and there were many people around the area where he lived and practiced that were grateful

to him for their care. In May 2009, Phil Aston was sentenced to 10 years in prison. So 10 years is no joke for scribbling on a piece of paper. Yeah. I mean, obviously what he was doing was wrong. He shouldn't have been doing it. And I get it. I'm sure he was a good doctor too many.

But that's a tough argument to make. Please look past all of this stuff I did. Yeah. And just take into account the fact that, well, I was really good with these patients. Right. Yeah. In January 2020, Chris's son, David Benoit spoke about his father's death with Chris Van Vleet. in an interview saying it wasn't him, man.

It definitely wasn't. He would never do that. I know he wouldn't. I think something terribly went wrong. The doctor said he had CTE. That's what at the beginning gave me some closure. It just made my life a little easier. I didn't have to think about it.

He had CTE. I don't think it was him. So this is an interesting statement. Because at first, when I read this, I thought, he was saying my dad didn't do it. Right. It was somebody else.

But when you look at the context, it really seems more as though he's saying, my dad wasn't himself. Yeah. Because of the CTE. Yeah. And how sad is that, you know, to think back about who your dad was and who he was during this time knowing that, man, that just wasn't my dad. That's somebody different.

And he even said it. You know, that gave him some clothes. it made his life easier. I think I would have to kind of lean on that too if I was in his position. You know, here's this man that you've known your whole life. He helped raise you. He was this father figure. And at one point, or maybe during the whole time, you knew him as this guy.

Right. And you loved this guy. And then all of a sudden, this horrific tragedy occurs. And somehow you've got. to separate it out in your mind. You've got to compartmentalize and using the CTE, I think helped him is what he's saying. David was just a teenager when his father died. He was living in Edmonton, Canada with his mom. Obviously, he was in disbelief when he received the news so much so that apparently he punched a police officer. David said, I didn't believe it for days, bro. I think the day

it really hit me was his funeral. That was a hard day. That was a super hard day. The last time he spoke to his dad was on Father's Day 2007. So Father's Days in June, right? What, a couple of weeks? Yeah. Less than a couple of weeks before this tragedy happened. He said, we were just laughing and getting ready to make plans for the summer. I got to say, I love you one last time to him. It feels good to get it off my chest. It feels good. I've never spoken about. It's just a long time to never publicly speak about this tragedy. And I think it would be cathartic in some sense to kind of get some things off your chest. And he's kind of backing that up.

Chris Jericho said on the dark side of the ring, I think his fate was sealed. The day that Eddie died, obviously he's talking about Chris here, whether he knew it or not, Whatever it was he was going through, I think he just continued to shrink his whole world until all that was left was just whatever was in his head that caused him to snap. Sandra Tofoloni also said it's not just one thing. I think that it's a factor of alcohol and drugs and yes, possibly CTE in stress and grief. And all of those things rolled together and put him on a path that weekend that he couldn't get off. So we spent quite a bit of time in episode one talking about the death of Eddie Guerrero. And it seemingly, you know, having this just massively negative effect on Chris Benoit.

It's almost as if that's what caused this spiral, according to some. So you have Nancy's sister saying, I don't think it's just one thing. I think, you know, you have to look at all these things and. kind of put them together. And even Chris Jericho, really going back to the day that Eddie died is kind of the crux or whatever, the tipping point. Right. For the lack of a better term.

But over 10 years later, there's still a ton of questions that remain in the Benoit family tragedy. This case has been referenced as a warning to other athletes about the importance of safety and the dangers of repeated head injuries, obviously it is a good warning because according to many, this CTE could have or most likely played a major role in the actions that he took.

What you don't have is a lot of these people who are involved saying, well, I don't think he did it. But there are people. And I think it's something that we have to acknowledge. there are people who believe that Chris Benoit didn't murder his family. Yeah. And that he didn't take his own life. Now, I'm not going to go into detail with all the different theories, but obviously it would

involve at least one or multiple people setting the stage or setting it up. Sure. To look as though he did. Right. Now, one of the things as we wrapped up this case that I found very interesting was you know really the talk about the connection between steroids and CTE and it seems as though that connection just has not been made or at least the connection that steroids and what we have always termed Royd rage right is what caused him possibly to do what he did the authorities

are are leaning more towards the CTE yeah and I I think could it be a combination like Sandra talked about? I think it absolutely could. You know, if he was drinking, if he was doing some drugs, if he was, you know, not able to really battle through this grief that he had over Eddie Guerrero's death and then the CTE and the steroid use on top of it. Yeah. Could it have all kind of snowballed into.

what ultimately happened. I think that's a possibility. Sure. Could have sent them over the edge. But also when you talk about this CTE, eating away brain cells or eating away parts of the brain that kind of regulate emotions and things like that, wow, that's very, very troubling.

Yeah. And I think could lead some people to do certain things that had they not had the CTE, they would have never done. Right. You know, I did talk about junior say out a little bit. And, you know, teammates love this guy. And obviously fans did too. He was a great football player.

But on top of that, he was always seen as kind of this bubbly, larger than life personality. Sure was. And then all of a sudden, something seemed as though it changed. And, you know, it's thought that this CTE had had something to do with it. And I go back to the conversation you and I had an episode. one about a lot of parents making the decision that, no, we just don't want our kids to play football. Yeah. And I get that. You know, everything in life is, is, is a balance of risk and reward. There's a lot of rewarding things that come from playing team sports, football, baseball,

basketball, whatever it is, soccer. Are there risks involved in, in some of that? Yeah. Are there more risks in football than there are in basketball. Sure. Yeah. Or boxing. Is that a risky proposition? Is MMA risky? Yeah. Yeah, they're all contact sports. Yep. But I also hate the thought of kids not playing some type of organized sports. You and I grew up in all of that. And man, there's just so much to be learned. There is. By being on on a team and having to rely on others and also have to. have them rely on you doing your job and learning how to communicate and work together and just all of that. Good old teamwork. When I boil it down Gibbs, it's hard for me not to think that it went down the way that police said it did. Yeah. You know, when you kind of boil down the text messages

and some of those things that we talked about in this episode, what I do struggle with in, in some respect is the motive. Right. Because, yes, if Nancy was planning on leaving him, would that be a motive? Could be. Other than that, I don't know what it would have been. Just raw anger, maybe. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. But that's it for our episode on Chris Benoit. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Yes, hear him. Hi, I'm making Gibby. This is Ainslie from Glasgow, Scotland. I have been a fan since lockdown, so 2020. Just listened to the episode on Chris Benoit. As a lifelong wrestling fan,

you guys did an amazing job. I was 14 when it happened, and I remember it like it was yesterday. I mean, it rocked the wrestling community. I'm really looking forward to part two. A case, I think you guys should cover it if you haven't already, because it may be before I was listening,

Bible John, which took place in Glasgow, Scotland. I would recommend that. It's unsolved. maybe not for true crime all the time, but there you go. Anyway, goodbye. So appreciate the voicemail so much. You know, me Gibbs. I'm a sucker for Scottish accent. I know you are with my last name being Ferguson. Scottish. Scottish. And appreciate the kudos on the episode one. What I will say is we did cover Bible John. We did. But it is on unsolved. I don't know the episode number off top of my head, but it was fairly recent.

It's not been that long ago. No. Hi, guys. This is Amanda. I'm from Brooklyn. I'm a long-time podcast listener, but this is the first time I've ever called in. I just listened to the Chris Benoit episode, part one. I've got to say, I think it's the best episode you guys have ever put out.

The way you told the story was phenomenal. And, oh, God, it's so tragic. But you guys have such a good job. I'm so can't wait for next week for part two. But I'm also calling because I don't even watch wrestling, and I was practically screaming when you couldn't figure out the names for the villain and the good guy. It's the heel versus the face. Like the face, the baby's face, the nice guy and the heel is the villain and the bad guy. And I'm an older than one ago. So you guys,

I never really feel like you're dating yourselves. But when you couldn't think of the name for the real world, I was cracking up. At least kidding you that that's where the miss came from. But it's the real world. Anyways, you guys are both great. Love the dynamics. Love the podcast. And keep your own time taken. Bye. Hey, I thought you from Brooklyn. Those are like a Brooklyn accent. So, I think the real world, I don't remember when that came out. Yeah. But I think I was either in college or it came out after I was out of college.

It was at a period of time where I was not watching stuff like that. Yeah. So I never watched it. Yeah. But the heel is what I was trying to think of. Okay. But couldn't think of the thing. Face, I've never heard that term.

You neither. All right. You got a baby face, so you're the good guy. Yeah. So face and heel? Okay. Love it. Face and heel.

Love it. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Mikey K from Wisconsin. Calling in regards to you covering the Kristen Waugh case. First off, part one was amazing. You had spoken about good guy versus bad guy. The terminology that most of them use is face and heel. Face is short for baby face, which would be the good guy, kind of like that old slang

for the heroes. And then heels who are the villains. That term heel comes from an early 1900 slang, which means a contemptible person or someone who is not quite liked. So just a quick little fact to throw at you there. Face and heel would be your good guys and your bad guys. Again, love the podcast. Keep your own time ticking, you guys. So who's the face and heel here?

Well, you're the face. Oh, okay. And I'm the heel. Okay. That's how this podcast is set up. Oh, yeah, I should know that. That's why all the love comes your way. Is that why?

You also have a baby face. No, but just more kind of backing that up. You know, the interesting thing that you and I always run into is if we had time to sit around and think about it, we would probably come up with it. But, you know, when you're riffing, when you're talking off the cuff, there's just some things that just don't come, that just don't enter your mind. Especially with me. Quick enough.

Yeah. To keep going with the podcast. So and then also over the years, you know, we kind of want to leave a little bit of room for people to call in and tell us the answer. Yeah, exactly. I could look it up. You could. I could stop the podcast. I'm sitting in front of a laptop. Right. But that kind of defeats the whole purpose of you and I in the way we do it. I'm normally right. 99.9% of the time. Yeah, I'm all you think you're right. Yeah, exactly. But we appreciate the voicemails. We had, um, a couple of of things in the mailbag. Mike and Carly Week sent us in some jerky. Yeah. Looks really good.

Carrie from Colorado sent us some bison jerky, but also sent each of us a really cool cutting board. Yeah, I really appreciate that. And in the note, she made sure that I let you pick the one you want. Yeah. I'm putting that out there. All right. Whether I do or not, nobody will know. No. But we appreciate everything that people send in. All right, buddy, that's it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.