True Crime All The Time - Chris Watts

Episode Date: February 6, 2023

In August 2018, Chris Watts murdered his pregnant wife and two young daughters. At first, he pretended to be a loving and concerned husband to police and local news outlets, but just a few days later, he confessed. The ensuing media coverage made Watts one of the most hated men in the United States.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the disturbing case of Chris Watts. How can a husband and father murder those he is supposed to love and is tasked with protecting? In the case of Chris Watts, he was an extremely selfish person who wanted out of his marriage so that he could be with another woman. The brutal acts he committed shocked the true crime community and the entire world.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 319 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson, how are you? I'm doing good, man. How about you? I'm doing really well. Yeah.

Having a good week. That's two weeks in a row for me. Double header. I want that noted. Okay. Yeah. Now, having another good week. I like that.

And let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout out. Let's do it. We had Cindy. Hey, Cindy. Jane is good. What's going on, Jane? Ma Ament. Well, thank you, Ma.

Judith Vag. Hey, Vag. P.J. Duncan jumped out of the highest level. What's up, PJ? Chad Varner. Thank you, Chad. Samantha. Samantha. Gail Sturdivant.

Well, appreciate that, Sturdivon. Maria Olivares. Ah, Olovarez. Rio Cizum. Hey, Rio. Carina Franci. Well, thank you, Franchi. Sarah Acheson.

What's going on, Sarah? Julie Eddie. Hey, Julie. Kevin. Harris. Hey, appreciate that, Kevin. Jordan Thompson. What's up, Jordan? Patty. Hey, good old Patty. Sorcha. Sorcha in the house. Yep. And a truck and bro. Jumped out higher than our highest level. That's a long name. Truck and Brought. Yeah, it could be brought. Yeah. We had O'Wain. Hey, O'Wain. Jesse Gill. What's up, Gil? Heather Nicholas. Appreciate that, Heather. And last but not least, Megan O'Dell jumped out of our highest level. Like Megan on the, Megan O'Dell, like Farmer in the day? Farmer in, Farmer on. Odell.

Just to say, thanks, Megan. Yeah, just say that and let's go on. And we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Kelly Train. Hey, Kelly. So we appreciate the new Patreon support, the continued support. We had a couple of great PayPal donations from Caitlin Rose. Thank you, Caitlin.

And Madison Postmark. And thank you, Madison. Yeah, thanks to everyone. All right, Gibbs, right now on True Crime, all the time unsolved. We have a very interesting episode on the unsolved missing persons cases of Karina, Lynn, Sagers, Malinowski, and Annette Sager's mother and daughter. Yeah. Who went missing at different times. Yeah, it's like about a year apart from each other down in the Carolina, South Carolina. And we're going to chase some rabbit holes and see where we can go with it. Yeah. So I believe, I believe,

leave it's a very interesting case. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? And I am excited for this one. We're talking about the case of the infamous Chris Watts. You know, this is a case that has been requested for years. Many people have wanted us to do it. Others have said, no, please don't do it. You know, it's one of those that I knew we would do at some point, but I definitely put off. I think at one point, Chris, Watts was probably the most hated man in America. I think so. I'm sure somebody's come along by now and taken that mantle.

In August 2018, Chris Watts murdered his pregnant wife and two young daughters. At first, he pretended to be a loving and concerned husband to police and local news outlets, but just a few days later, he confessed. Christopher Watts was born on May 16, 1985. in Spring Lake, North Carolina, Shanan Catherine Rusak was born on January 10th, 1984. Shanan was originally from Passaic, New Jersey. She later moved to North Carolina.

That's where she met Chris. Shanan was married before Chris, but she and her first husband divorced before 2010. And I know I have to be very careful with her first name because my wife's name is Shannon. That's going to be a tough one for you. And I've got to work hard to say it correctly. About 10 years before her death, Shanan experienced a loss of energy, some hair loss, and she often felt sick. She was eventually diagnosed with lupus.

According to People Magazine, she was told by her doctors that she wouldn't be able to have children. So when she was able to get pregnant, she was very excited and happy to be a mother. Oh, absolutely. When you've been told, no, it can't happen. And all of a sudden it does, you're got to be ecstatic. Chris and Shanan met in 2010 when Chris sent her a Facebook friend request. I just wonder, Gibbs, how many people over the last 10, 15 years have actually met that way.

I think a good amount of people probably have. You know, when we were younger, obviously none of that existed. Yeah. You had to go to the bar. You had to go to church. you had to go to places where people actually went to to meet other people. According to Biography.com, Shanan said in one Facebook video, I got a friend request from Chris on Facebook.

I was like, what the heck? I'm never going to meet him, except one thing led to another. And eight years later, we have two kids. We live in Colorado. And he's the best thing that's ever happened to me. On November 3rd, 2012, Shanan and Chris married in Charlotte, North Carolina. Chris's parents didn't attend the wedding because they didn't like Shanan. Chris said on the documentary American murder, the family next door,

my mom just never thought she was good enough. It was just my mom and very much my sister. They just didn't like her. They just thought that Shanan had taken me away from them and taken me off to Colorado. Pretty tough. It is tough. When you marry someone that a bunch of your family members don't like for whatever reason, okay, there's going to be a strain there.

Yeah, it's definitely going to be very uncomfortable when you're around these individuals. If you're even going to be around them. I mean, you know, if you're Shanan, do you want to go to Chris's family's house and hang out with them knowing that they don't like you? No. No, I'm finding a way not to go to that. And then that's just going to turn around and stress the relationship. Yeah, even more.

Chris and Shanan's first daughter, Bella Marie Watts, was born on December 17, 2013. Their second daughter, Celeste Catherine Watts, nicknamed Cici, was born on July 17, 2015. The Watts family lived in Frederick, Colorado. Chris worked as an operator at Anadarko Petroleum. Shanan worked for the new. Nutrition Supplement Company Lavelle. And it was said that she often traveled for work. So they're both very busy.

Plus they have the new kids. Which is even adds to your busyness. Absolutely it does. Yeah. As those of us who've had kids can remember back and some people are experiencing it right now. You know, small kids, I mean, they sap you. They take everything. They do.

It's a lot of energy that they have. that you have to try to compete with. Yeah. Yeah. And they need to be taken care of and driven places, fed. I mean, babe, they're just so much to it. Yeah. Shanan was described as ambitious and a fireball.

According to the Denver Post, friends described her as a highly organized helicopter month. Now, I've heard that term before. Helicopter parent. I think to many it has a, a very negative connotation. Like you don't want to let your kids do anything. You're controlling.

I don't know if it always means that, but I've heard it that way. Yeah, same here. Sometimes I think it just means that you're very observant of what your kids are doing and you're constantly watching and make sure they don't do something that's going to hurt themselves.

Yeah. It doesn't mean you're constantly, you know, being that parent that says, no, no, no, no, right? You're letting them do certain things. You're just making sure that it's not going to be something that you rush off to the to the ER for. So I really don't know what friends meant.

Right. How negatively they meant it, you know, the helicopter mom statement. Christopher was described as quiet and passive. Some friends said that Shanan could be controlling and that Christopher was too passive. But despite their different personalities, it seemed as though they loved each other. And sometimes that works, right? It can. It can also be difficult if you're too relaxed and you're not used to someone being more authoritative. Yeah. I mean, they say opposites attract, but I think it depends on what the specifics

of the opposite opposites are. Yeah, that's true. In June 2015, Chris and Shanan filed for bankruptcy. According to Biography.com, in 2014, they had a combined income of $90,000, but they had credit card debt, student loans, and medical bills. They stated that their $3,000 mortgage and $600 car payments made up most of their almost $5,000 monthly expenses. Their HOA also sued them for unpaid fees. You know, $3,000 a month mortgage is a lot for $90,000 income. It is. It is. But also know, you know, they're in an area that that's probably what it costs to buy a regular single family home.

I don't know how out of the ordinary this is. I mean, everybody wants to get the most house they can. Right. Now, do we sometimes stretch it? Sure. my wife and I did that when we bought our first home. Yeah. Now, the thought was, okay, we're going to get better jobs.

Hopefully we're going to make more money. And it did work out that way. But it could have easily gone the route of, okay, we're not getting better jobs. We're not making more money. We're not making ends meet. And that payment's still there. Mm-hmm. But, you know, I think sometimes people buy a home thinking that, okay, right now we're

going to be strapped. but that's not going to be for long. By summer of 2018, Chris Watts was 33 years old, Shanan was 34, Bella was four, and Celeste was three. And they had just found out

that Shanan was pregnant with a boy. She surprised Chris with the news on June 11, 2018. They decided to name their son, Nico Lee. Shanan was 15 weeks pregnant when she was murdered. On,

June 27th of that year, Shanan and the girls left home to travel to North Carolina for six weeks. That same month, Chris started talking to a woman named Nicole Kessinger, who worked for Anadarko Petroleum's Environmental Department. Nicole usually saw the operators when she put her lunch in the fridge. Chris came to her office. They struck up a conversation. They met for the first time outside of work in. June of 2018. But according to the Denver Post, Chris's relationship with Nicole

intensified after Shanan left. Sure. He had all this extra free time on his hand now. Well, he's by himself for six weeks. Yeah. Now, a guy in that position or anybody in that position, for that matter, can go one of two ways. You can stay at home, be a good person, do what you're supposed to do. Right. Call your family every night. Yeah, you're going to miss. them or you can do things that you wouldn't normally be able to do because your spouse is home, because your kids are home. Now, obviously, as we're going to find out, it's that second route that Chris Watts chose to go. Yeah. According to investigative documents, Nicole deleted much of her conversation with Chris before she later turned in her phone to the police. Many tax

were also missing from Chris's phone. Records show that Chris ignored Shanan's text and calls from North Carolina while he was with Nicole and told her that he fell asleep early. The Denver Post reported that Chris and Nicole started a physical relationship in early July 2018 and they saw each other four to five times a week. Chris apparently told Nicole that he was only. Almost divorced. Later in July, he told her that he and Shanan's divorce was final. So he's being unfaithful. He's lying.

Sure. Yeah. He's not answering his wife's calls or her texts. And when he does, he'll reply back that he's going to bed early. Yeah. He was asleep. Yeah. That's why he couldn't pick up the phone or couldn't reply. And then you think about Nicole, how would you like to be her after all this happens? When everything comes out? Yeah. Oh, yeah.

I mean, obviously it would have turned her world upside down, I'm sure. Insider reported that Nicole went to the Watts family home for the first time on July 4th, and the two had their first phone call on record on July 7. On July 14th, they went on a date to the Shelby American. collection car museum. On the 28th of that month, they spent the night at the Great Sand Dunes National Park. On the 30th of July, Chris gave Nicole a love note before he left for North Carolina. He flew to North Carolina on July 31st. So, you know, kind of to put it all in perspective, you know, like you said, he's having this extramarital affair. He's lying to this woman saying,

you know, we're almost divorced. Now we are divorced. So I don't know how much she knew other than what he was telling her, which doesn't seem like it was the truth. So he had a number of weeks to himself to do, it sounds like what he wanted to do, which was not good, as we pointed out. Right. But then the whole time, he had plans to meet up with his family in North Carolina. Now, Shanan, posted on social media a lot and really based on her posts it seemed as though they were a happy family but towards the end of her life she seemed worried about the marriage she even texted some of her friends about her problems with chris according to the denver post she said that when they were apart chris didn't answer her calls or text she described him as cold and then when they

were together in North Carolina. He didn't show her any affection. I think in any relationship, when that occurs, that's a problem. Right. If you have a spouse that typically communicates with you, and all sudden that communication stops, especially when you're not around, that's a concern.

And then when you are around, things have changed. Yeah. There's no affection. You know, a lot of people say they, see the signs maybe later on. The person started getting in shape. They got a new haircut. They lost weight.

They did this. They did that. And then the spouse finds out later that they were cheating. I think you could look at some of this in kind of a similar light. I know for a fact, if my wife's away from home, I can get away with not answering one call or text. Yeah. You know, I might be in the bathroom.

I might be taking a shower. Yeah. But if multiple days go by and I haven't answered or returned calls, the you know what is going to hit the fan. Absolutely. There's no way that would occur here. No. Yeah.

Shanan told some of her close friends that Chris said he didn't want a baby. And he felt like their marriage wasn't compatible. She asked Chris if he was having an affair and he denied it. The Denver Post reported that Shanan texted one friend. I told him last night, I don't feel safe with him after what he said about the baby. And if he loves me, he would hold me and tell me it will be okay. Yeah, that's got to be a rough thing for a mother to be again to find out that her husband's just really not into having this third child. And not only that, he's basically saying that this marriage is not working out.

Yeah, we're not compatible. But clearly he thought they were compatible up into the point that they made the baby. Shanan discussed a possible divorce and wrote, I can't afford three kids alone in Colorado. The couple's friends told the police that Chris and Shanan were living above their means. We kind of talked about that. a little bit earlier with that mortgage payment, they had talked about selling their house

and moving somewhere less expensive. Chris told investigators, they spent over $500 a week on daycare. They were also three months behind on their mortgage and had maxed out their credit cards. So financial distress, which is a huge cause of divorce. And cause of other things.

And cause of other things. And then the add on top of that, the stress of adding to the family. And on top of that, someone is out there cheating. Yes. So we've got a lot going on. Sure. You have all these ingredients that, you know, are leading up to what is going to be, you know,

this horrific tragedy. During the vacation, Shanan also talked with her friends about tensions with Chris's parents. I guess they had an argument about a fight that they had. that centered around Chris's family earlier in the trip. The following information comes from the American murder documentary. Shanan's friend Nicole Atkinson later spoke with a CBI agent and was asked if Shanan said anything about her relationship. Nicole said that during the second or third week of the North Carolina trip,

Shanan fought with Chris's mother, Cindy Watts. She was visiting Cindy and Cindy person. purchased ice cream with ingredients that Celeste was allergic to. Shanan asked her not to give the ice cream to Celeste. Mark Jameson, Chris's best friend, spoke to the police and said that, according to Cindy, Celeste had a food allergy and Shanan shouted at her things like, she's trying to kill her baby or something like that because of the food allergy.

Cindy said she didn't know about it. They had a big argument. and Cindy kicked Shanan out of the house. Wow. That's just a relationship that just wasn't going to be. No, I mean, we said it up front. They didn't like her. Chris's parents did not like Shanan.

But here's, you know, something that you see quite a bit, two different versions of the same event that come from different side. Yeah. One is, hey, Celeste has a food allergy. Please don't give her that ice cream. The other one is she has an allergy, you're trying to kill her. Yeah. There's a big difference there.

And if you're not there, you don't know what was really said. Well, and like we have had to say in a number of cases, a number of these individuals are not going to be able to give their side of the event later on. Sure. Yeah. Because they're not going to be a lot. Right. Hey, folks, if your New Year's goals are to manage your budget better and save money, you need

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Rocketmoney.com slash teacat. So apparently they celebrated Celeste's birthday in North Carolina. And Chris's parents didn't come to the party. There's no shock there, is there? Well, I guess there is a little bit. I understand the friction. but this is your granddaughter's birthday. Yeah.

And you're not going to go. I mean, Chris Watts said about the fight. There was an incident where she had some ice cream that C.C. couldn't have. That kind of drove Shanan to where like, all right, they can't come over ever again if you're going to have this in the house.

And that's why that happened. I was hurt. I was like, you know, I wanted my parents to see their granddad. babies. So I think his family's putting it all on Shanan. Chris is really kind of putting it on her as well. You know, if someone kicked me out of their house, I wouldn't want them to be around me either. No, I get that. I'm sure it was very contentious. Shanan texted Chris less than a week before she was

killed, saying, I don't know how you fell out of love with me in five and a half weeks or if this has been going on for a long time. But you don't plan enough. other baby if you're not in love. Kids don't deserve a broken family. To which Chris replied, I'm not sure what's in my mind. I don't know if it's my parents, the third pregnancy, if I'm just scared or what? Shanan talked with her friends about ways she could save her marriage. She also acknowledged that she could be overbearing and expressed a willingness to change. She canceled a gender reveal party that she had planned. So, you know, I mean, I take from this a couple of things. Number one, you can really see the time frame. Sure. Yeah. And I think it goes back to what you said.

Obviously, Chris was into the relationship when they had the baby. Yeah. You know, Shanan even said it. How do you fall in love with me in five and a half weeks? Well, it can happen if that person meets someone else who they like better or they think is more suitable with. They want to be with more. Yeah. And it almost seems as though that's what happened. That's when everything changed. But you also see in her a willingness to work on the merit and even acknowledge some of her flaws, if you want to call them that, but, you know, admitting that she can be overbearing it, but saying, hey, I really want to work this out. Yeah. I'll tell my overbearing. this down. Yeah, the problem is, and anybody who has gone to couples therapy or been in this

situation knows it, if both people don't want to work on it, it doesn't matter. No, it doesn't. It's not going to work. One person can't save a marriage. No, no, absolutely not. On August 10th, 2018, Shanan left for a business trip in Arizona. She texted a friend that she and Chris had their best talk yet before she laughed and Shanan even wrote him a letter. While she was away on August 11th, Chris hired a babysitter. He said he was going to a baseball game with his coworkers, but he really went out to a bar with Nicole Kessinger. So he's pretty much made his mind up. He doesn't want to save this marriage. No, he wants to be with this other woman. Yeah. That's what it sounds like to me. On August 13th, At 148 a.m., Shanan's friend Nicole Atkinson dropped Shanan off at her house.

She and her friend were supposed to meet later that day. And she also had a doctor's appointment at 10 a.m. Nicole Atkinson became concerned. When Shanan didn't answer her calls or texts, she knew that Shanan had this doctor's appointment and she didn't show up. So Shanan was reported missing around 140 p.m. Nicole Atkinson called the police and requested a welfare check. Footage from the American murder documentary shows Nicole saying about Shan, and she was very distraught over the weekend.

She wasn't eating normally or drinking. And we kept trying to force it on her. So basically they're saying she wasn't her normal self. Yeah, I think she knew something was wrong. Yeah. She was stressed out. According to the arrest affidavit, Nicole could see no, movement inside the house, despite the fact that Shanan's car was in the garage and the car seats

were still in the car. Denver 7 reported that Nicole called Chris and asked him to come to the house because she was worried Shanan had some type of medical episode and had passed out. But it turned out that Shanan, Bella, and Celeste were not in the house. The police found Shanan's phone, keys and purse inside the house, as well as her wedding ring and medication. Chris allowed the police to check her phone, which was taken to the police department. And this comes up in many cases, and to me it's always a bad sign. When you have someone who you believe is missing, but yet you find the phone, the keys, the purse.

And in this case, even her wedding ring and some medication that she probably needed, okay, things that you would think someone would take with them. I don't think a mom would leave the house without her phone, her keys, her purse, especially if she had her girls with her. According to KIR07, Chris initially said that around 4 a.m., he told Shanans he wanted a separation. He said they had what he described as an emotional conversation and they were both crying. but it wasn't an argument.

He left for work shortly before 5.30 a.m. Shanan said she was going to a friend's house. He said he backed his truck into the driveway to load up tools before he left. A neighbor's security camera caught the truck's movement. Chris talked about, you know, when he last saw Shanan and the girls telling a local news station, she said she was going to a friend's house with the kids. And that's the last thing I heard. And that was it.

It was very vague. So, you know, one of the officers who came to do the welfare check went to a neighbor's house to view his security footage. Chris Watts also went into the house to watch the footage. The neighbor showed the officer footage of Chris moving his truck. And, you know, this is really one of the parts of the American murder documentary that a lot of people remember. Yeah.

And I remember my wife and I. watching it on the couch, her not knowing a whole lot about this case saying something's not right here. He just doesn't look the way someone in his position should. And I think that's what most people felt as well. In the documentary, he said, I usually park out there on the side so I can get everything back in. Be easier instead of lugging everything out there, tools I had to bring in. He also mentioned recent issues with people stealing things. out of garages. So at one point, Chris left this neighbor's house.

The officer stayed behind to talk to the neighbor. And the neighbor said, he's not acting right at all. He's never fidgety. He's never rocking back and forth. And if you look here, and this is the neighbor pointing to the TV, he never loads his stuff in and out of the garage, ever. He's normally, you can ask them. He's normally quiet, real subdued.

He never talked. So the fact that he's over here blabbing his mouth makes me kind of suspicious of something. Wow. So, you know, here's a neighbor who knows him somewhat. Right. Obviously. Just flat out telling this officer, this guy's not acting right. I've been around him.

Something's wrong. Something's up here. And he never does this with his truck. This is not his normal morning routine. Yeah. And I do. I think it's that. part that people really point to in the documentary and say, man, he just is really kind of giving

it away, that he knows more than, you know, what he's letting on at that point. Nicole Atkinson said, she knew something was wrong. She told ABC, I knew Chris Watts had something to do with it the day I was at his house with him, but I didn't want to think that. Anyone in their right mind will start piecing things together. and think something bad happened, but you don't want to go there. You want to believe the best in people. And we've seen that time and time again.

You know, whether it's a family member, a mother-in-law, father-in-law, nobody really wants to believe that this person they've known for however many years and really have let into their lives can be capable of something really horrible. it's tough for people to get to that point they normally don't go there right off the bat no they don't on august 14th 2018 chris watts interviewed with denver sevens thomas hopp of and pleaded for shenan and the girls to come home i think a lot of people look at this and point to this interview and say something's wrong he's not acting right chris said she came home from the airport at 2 a.m and I left around 5.15. She was still here. And about 1210 that afternoon, her friend showed up at the door.

Like, I had texted Shanan a couple times that day, called her to say, hey, you know, but she never got back to me. But she wasn't getting back to any of her people as well. And that's what really concerned a lot of people. It's like, if she's not getting back to me, that's fine. She gets busy during the day. But she didn't get back to her people, which is really concerning. And Nicole, called me when she was at the door. And that's when I came home and then walked in the house and nothing just vanished. Nothing was here. When asked if he thought Shanan just took off, he said, I mean, right now I don't even want

to just like throw anything out there. Like I hope that she's somewhere safe right now and with the kids. But I mean, she could have just taken off. I don't know. But if someone has her and they're not safe. I'll want them back now. Like, that's what's in my head is like, if they're safe right now, they're going to come back. But if they're not safe right now, that's the not knowing part, like if they're not safe.

That's a lot of things said. It's also a lot of likes. Right. You know, it's like talking to my 17 year old. Yeah. Like, you know what I'm saying? When asked if he and Shanan got into an argument, he said it wasn't an argument. We had an emotional conversation, but I'll leave it at that.

When asked if there was anything he wanted to tell her, Chris said, Shanan, Bella, Celeste. If you're out there, just come back. Like if somebody has her, just please bring her back. I need to see everybody. I need to see everybody again. This house is not complete without anybody here. Please bring them back.

Now, in a lot of these cases where people go missing, you have someone, let's say, left behind, a spouse, a husband, a wife, whoever it is, a mother or father, pleading for the safe return of whoever has gone missing. Yeah. Most of them are very genuine. But again, if you go back during this time frame and you look online after some of these interviews came out, there were a lot of people saying very early on, something's wrong with this guy.

Yeah. He's not acting the way that we believe a grieving spouse would act. Now, you've got to be careful with that. We've talked about that before. I get that. It just seems like he's really lacking the emotions. Yeah, and me reading it doesn't fully, you know, encapsulate it. You can see a lot of it on the documentary.

You can go back and find some of those clips as well. But you really kind of need to not. just hear the words, but see, see him. Yeah, the expressions. Yes, the whole thing. Yeah. On August 14th, 2018, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation issued a missing endangered alert for Shanan and the girls. The next day on the 15th, the FBI and CBI were brought in to help with the case. Nicole Kessinger went to the police before Chris was arrested and did multiple interviews. She talked about her relationship with Chris and what he told her about the disappearance of Shanan and the girls.

So, you know, let's say police are suspicious at first, right? They noticed that this guy's acting strangely, but they don't know exactly what's going on. And then you have the girlfriend or the lover or whatever you want to call her. Right. come in and start doling out information. Okay, I think the suspicion level is rising at that point. Oh, I think it's cresting. Especially if she says, well, you know, he told me they were basically divorced.

Then he told me they were divorced when obviously the police know they weren't. So Chris Watts was arrested on the night of August 15th. He was taken to jail around 1130 p.m. after he was detained for questioning. Two law enforcement sources told Denver 7 investigator Jace Larson that Chris Watts confessed to killing all three victims. So it didn't take long. Now in his first interview, Chris denied cheating on Shanan.

He agreed to take a polygraph that he failed. Chris admitted to killing her after he was allowed to talk to his father, Ronnie Watts. In the police interview that followed, which took place on the. Thursday the 16th, he confessed to strangling Shanan, but claimed he did it because she smothered Bella and Celeste. They didn't want to be 100% truthful. No, and how many times have we seen that? Okay, here's a kernel of truth, but I'm going to pepper it in among a bigger story that's filled with a bunch of lots. Yeah. I remember we did a story, like four years ago. It was about a man and his wife and kids. They traveled all the way cross country. It ended up being on upper west coast somewhere.

And he ended up, I believe, putting them in suitcases and then dropping them in the water. Oh, I remember that case. Yeah. But he also, yeah, he was trying to blame her for smothering those kids. And like he did this all in self-defense and then just had to cover it up. So it's. Yeah. So I won't read out the full transcript of this conversation between Chris and Ronnie, but it is basically Chris saying that Shanan killed the two girls. He said they were blue.

And then he freaked out and knew that he had to hurt her and basically did the same thing to her. It's almost like, how can. I tell a little bit of the truth while still making myself look like the good guy? Right. Yeah, I did it, but here's why I did it because she deserved it. She deserved it. She hurt my daughters. According to Chris Watts's arrest affidavit, Chris stated that after he told Shanan, he wanted a separation, he walked downstairs for a moment and then returned to his bedroom to speak with her again.

While in the bedroom via baby monitor located on Shanan's nightstand, he observed Bella, sprawled out on her bed and blue. And Shanan actively strangling Celeste. Denver 7 reported that Chris said he went into a rage and that he ultimately strangled Shanan to death. Chris said he loaded all three bodies onto the backseat of his work truck and took them to an oil site. So now he's weaving in more details that kind of are trying to back up his statement. Yes, he's admitted to murdering his wife.

Right. But he's sticking with the story that she murdered the two kids. And it's because he said he wanted a separation. And she must have lost it after that conversation. When Chris was shown an aerial photo of the oil site, he identified three locations where the bodies could be found. On August 16th, 2018, authorities found Shanan, Bella, and Celeste at this work site.

The police announced at a news conference that morning, that the body of a woman, believed to be Shanan Watts, was found on Anadarko property and that they were searching for the two girls. Later that evening, officials announced that they had found two bodies, that they had strong reason to believe were Bella and Celeste. CBI director John Camper confirmed that the woman's body was found on land owned by Anadarko. A company spokeswoman confirmed that Chris Watts worked for Anadarko, but the company said later that morning that he was no longer employed there.

On August 17th, Chris's defense attorneys asked the court to require pathologists to swab the girl's neck, accent hands for DNA and asked the court to compel the coroner's office to look for DNA under Shanan's fingernails and on her hands. They also requested to have their own expert take swabs from the bodies. CNN reported that Chris's attorneys indicated in a court filing that the girls' bodies were in an oil well filled with crude oil for several days. All these requests were denied. Bad enough you did what you did to your girls, but to dispose of their bodies like that. And then kill your wife and blame it on your wife. Yeah. I mean, I said it up front. This guy was, and maybe still is, one of the most hated men in America. Because I think there's a lot of people

Gibbs that have not forgotten about this. Yeah. Yeah, the case is older now, but it received so much attention. This guy was vilified and rightfully so. An unsealed affidavit was released on August 20th, 2018, that revealed details of Chris Watts's interactions with the police. The affidavit said that investigators discovered Chris was actively involved in an affair with a co-worker, which he had denied in previous interviews. So they're asking him questions because Nicole Kessinger had. already come in. Right. At some point. They already know. And told the truth. Chris told the police, he had an emotional but civil conversation with Shanan about a separation on the morning of the 13th after

she got home from her business trip. He said they didn't argue, but were both upset and crying. So research in this case, I heard some of the interview conversations and he was saying that he got home. they had sex, but for him, it felt awkward. And then they just decided to have this conversation. And he did say it was emotional. They were crying and it lasted maybe 20 minutes. But at that point, he decided to tell her that he didn't love her. Which you do after he have sex.

Yeah. Now, Chris did not admit to strangling the girls, but did admit to where he put the bodies. the police used a drone and found a bed sheet in the field near the oil tank farm. The sheet matched the pattern of pillowcases and a top sheet found in the trash at the family home. This was found before Chris confessed. CNN said that the drone found fresh movement of dirt consistent with a clandestine grave near the oil tanks. Shanan was found on the 16th of August in a shallow grave near. an oil tank and the girls were inside oil tanks located near the grave of their mother.

This is per, you know, a court filing by the prosecutor. On August 20th, 2018, Chris Watts was charged with three counts of first degree murder, plus two first degree murder charges for causing the death of a child under the age of 12, three counts of tampering with a body, and one count of first degree unlawful terminate. of a pregnancy. And that's one thing that we definitely cannot lose sight of. Right. And we talked about Shanan.

We've talked about the two girls, but Shanam was pregnant. Yeah, 15, 16 weeks or so, right? On November 6th, 2018, Chris Watts pleaded guilty to all nine counts against him. Shanan's family requested that prosecutors not seek the death penalty. So on November 19th, Chris Watts, was sentenced to life in prison. The judge called the murders perhaps the most inhumane and vicious crime I have handled out of the thousands of cases that I have seen.

And I want to go back to Shanan's family requesting or asking prosecutors not to seek the death penalty. I couldn't find really much information around it. So either to me, they didn't believe in the death penalty, which would be one reason. Sure. or they thought it would be worse for him to rot in jail for the rest of his life. Because I do think there are people who would think that, that, you know, execution delivers finality, but they want this guy to suffer in prison until, you know, he's old

and making poopies and his depends. He's probably doing that. All righty. He might, yeah, he might be. I'm sure being one of the most hated individuals in America, probably one of the most hated criminals within his prison. Well, he also hurt children, killed children. And we know there's this strange code in prison. You have rapists, you have murderers, you have people who have done all kinds of bad stuff.

But there are some things that put you at the very bottom of the last. of the list. And hurting children is one of them. So Chris received five life sentences without the possibility of parole plus another 48 years for unlawful termination of pregnancy and 36 years for disposing of his family's bodies. He pleaded guilty to avoid the death penalty. The agreement also stipulated that the life sentences be consecutive. Well, that's good. That means he's never going to get out. No, he's never getting out. You know, five consecutive life sentences. Okay, let's say something happened.

One or two or three of them got tossed. Right. Okay, you still got two. You still got 48 years and another 36 years. You're not getting out. No. Unless your whole case gets overturned for whatever reason. Yeah.

And you're retried and acquitted. I'll be surprised if he makes it 10 years in there. anyway, but, you know, I, bad things happen. They do. D.A. Michael Rourke's best explanation for the murders was that Chris wanted to start a new life with Nicole Kessinger. Rourke said he believed Chris planned the murders because he texted a coworker and arranged his schedule.

So he would be the only person there when he got rid of the bodies. He also unenrolled the girls in school and called a real estate. agent later that morning. Those are really strange things to do so quickly. Yeah. Yeah, very quickly. It's like you didn't even process what you did to the kids. You went ahead and already unrolled them from school wide to save money to...

I don't think he cared. Yeah. I mean, I obviously, how could you care and do that to your family? You know, I think this was a guy who was so selfish that all he cared about was getting on with his new life. And to do that, he had to rid himself of all these obligations that he had, a marriage, two kids, and a baby on the way. Yeah. It's sickening. It is sickening. You know, he said in one of the interviews that he felt like when he was with Nicole, that he was important, that he was young again, that he had purpose.

He felt when he was at home, that he was not important, was just a dad, just a dad. Just a dad. Yeah. Yeah. Some, a role that most of us relish. I'm just a dad. The one thing I will say to that is, you know, being married for as long as I have, then, yeah, I get it.

It's not all wine and roses. Sure. There's tough times. Raising kids is tough. There's stress. There's, you know, money gets tight. Now, back in the old days, when you, before marriage, when you met someone and everything was fresh and new, that's the feeling I'm assuming he was getting from this affair. And obviously, it's going to be a much different feeling from, you know, a marriage that you've been in for a while where you have all these responsibilities. What's that honeymoon period passes, life settles in, you know what, it's not going to always be the way that it was when you first met. It can't be.

It can never be. If somebody has that type of marriage, I would love to meet them. Yeah. Where it's like they just met for the rest of their lives. Yeah. I just don't know how it can be like that. I don't either. And I think one thing that he forgot is that he started that relationship off with.

Nicole with a lie. Yeah. Multiple lies. Multiple lies. So eventually that would all have came out and that would have been a disaster anyway. But he was willing to sell everything, his soul everything for that opportunity. And if she really had no idea, if all she knew was the lies that Chris Watts told her, then you got to feel bad for her.

Yeah, sure. If she was duped in that way. Shanan's parents filed a wrongful death suit against Chris on the day he was sentenced. The autopsy reports were also released on November 19, 2018. Forensic pathologist Michael Burson conducted the autopsies. KOCO News reported that the autopsy reports show that all three victims were asphyxiated to death and that it was probable that Bella Watts fought for her life. The manner of death for all three victims was homicide.

You know, it really hurts when you think about little Bella fighting for her life against her own. Dad. Yeah. Shanan died of asphyxiation due to manual strangulation by another person. She had bruises on her neck and possible abrasions going up the left side of her face, which it was noted was evidence of a traumatic injury. Her body showed no signs. of a struggle besides the bruises on her neck, according to DA Michael Rourke.

Wark told people, we know that our experts tell us that it takes two to four minutes to strangle someone to death manually with her own hands. The horror that she felt as the man that she loved wrapped his hands around her throat and choked the life out of her must have been unimaginable. And I think he summed it up really well there. And right now he's only talking about shenan. And obviously there's there's going to be other issues when you get to the girls. Yeah.

This is the man you fell in love with. According to her, she still loved him. She wanted to find a way to fix the relationship. And you can imagine it. It's tough to, but you can do it this two to four minute period where she's being strangled to death by this same person. I mean, he's, he's a monster. He even said in his interview, he straddled her, put his hands around her neck, strangled her.

And the whole time he says she didn't fight back, that she just looked at him in shock and was, according to him, she was reciting some type of Bible verse until, you know, she was gone. He also said he felt like he had an out-of-body experience. Like he wanted to, he wanted to stop, but he couldn't. let it stop because he was not actually doing it. We've heard people say that before. But it's like the moment stood still. They were in the room, but they weren't doing the dirty work. I'm sure the moment did kind of stand still.

I just called BS on all that. Sure. Because again, I just think these killers will say whatever they have to say, even though they've admitted to these acts, they're still trying to soften their role or, you know, blame it on something else or make them look maybe not quite as bad in the eyes of others. I don't know. It really wasn't me. It was this other side of me, you know, so don't be upset with me bullshit, right? Yeah. No, I think it is. Shanan had a high blood alcohol concentration, but DA Work said that this level was. was consistent with decomposition.

The girls had a number of substances in their systems. Most likely due to being put in the oil tanks, Bella died of asphyxiation due to smothering. She had blunt force trauma on her jaw and lacerations and contusions in her mouth. KOCO news reported that teeth impressions in superficial bite marks were found on her tongue, which indicated that she

fought for her life. Celeste likely died of asphyxiation due to smothering. There was no evidence of a struggle. There were also injuries indicative of the girls being placed in the oil tanks, which were accessed by eight inch wide chaps. Wow. It makes me sick. Yeah. I mean, there's no way to make sense, right, of what this guy did and why he felt as though he he should have done it. And to put your babies, bodies into that oil tanks by pushing them through an eight-inch shaft. I don't know.

It's just unbelievable. In November 2018, Nicole Kessinger spoke publicly about the affair with the Denver Post. She said that she barely knew Chris. She was working in the environmental department within Anadarko contractor. every morning Chris Watts and other operators gathered in the break room waiting to be sent to a field site. Nicole saw them when she put her lunch in the fridge, but she didn't really talk to Chris. In mid-June, he went to her office to introduce himself. They continued having casual conversations.

She said she saw that he wasn't wearing a wedding ring and she thought he was attractive. Chris told her he had two daughters, said he was separated and, at the end of divorce proceedings. Nicole believed it. When they met each other in late June, she asked him about the divorce, and he said it was almost final. And again,

I'm assuming what this woman is saying is true. Sure, yeah. And so, all right, you're separated. Right. You're almost divorced. Can you really put any blame on her,

if that's the way it went down? She didn't know any better, you know? I mean, he's, he's, telling people in his interviews that, you know, they were in love and they were very intimate with each other. And he wanted to just be with her all the time. And he dreaded it going home and

seeing his wife. Then when Chris went to North Carolina, he called and told Nicole that the divorce was final. Later that month, he asked her to help him find an apartment that would be good for his children. They had never talked about long-term plans for their relationship. On the afternoon of August 13th, Chris told Nicole that Shanan took the girls out to a play date and didn't come back. He seemed calm. So she said she didn't want to make a big deal out of it. But eventually she learned that Chris was actually married and that Shanan was pregnant when she saw the news. And at that point, obviously she was shocked. And she also said she was scared for Shanan and the girls.

Oh, absolutely. She's been told all these lies up to this point and finds out he's been lying to her. And then she hears this on the news. She's probably thinking, something's not right here. Obviously, this is not the guy I thought he was. Exactly. And if he was willing to do this to me, is it possible that he did something to his wife and girls?

Yeah. That night, she questioned Chris, she said, Chris didn't seem to show any emotion and he even tried to change the subject. But she continued asking questions on the 14th. Chris said he would never hurt his family. Nicole said, it got to a point that he was telling me so many lies that I eventually told him that I didn't want to speak to him again until his family was found. And I think that was very smart on her part.

I think her radar was telling her that something wasn't right here. She couldn't be sure. She couldn't know exactly what was going on. But obviously, she made the decision that I don't even want to talk to you. Yeah. Until your family's found. I know they're okay. And then at that point, I don't even know what her plan would have been because he had lied so much.

She knew now that he was married. But the first part would be, let's make sure that your wife and girls were okay. Yeah, and I'm thinking she had to feel pretty scared because, you know, later when it all comes out, think about it, what he was willing to do to cover up what he did, he probably would have thought about if not acted on finding a way to keep Nicole quiet too. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's possible. Yeah. Right? Because if he had an inkling that she was going to turn on him, well, obviously she had some damaging information. Sure. what would he be willing to do to keep that from coming out?

I don't think murder is out of the question. We know that he was capable of it. And it was really just the next day that she called the local sheriff's office to tell them about her relationship. She met with some FBI investigators. And she saw news of Chris's arrest later that night. At Chris's sentencing, DA Michael Warke confirmed what Nicole said, but added that she deleted all photos and messages related to Chris Watts before she went to the police.

I don't know if she deleted him because she was going to see the police or she just deleted them because she was embarrassed by what she has text and the pictures that she sent or he sent her and she just wanted him off her phone for good. No, I could see somebody doing that. You know, if you're going in to talk to the police, you have an inkling that they're going to want to see your phone. Okay. Is there stuff on there that you really do?

don't want them to see. But is she trying to protect Chris? Is she trying to cover up something? That, you know, I don't know about that part. I think, you know, you could be on to something. She just didn't want to be embarrassed about maybe what was on there. On December 3rd, 2018, Chris Watts was transferred to Dodge Correctional Facility in Wapun, Wisconsin for safety reasons. You know, back to, uh, this guy was not popular in, in prison, I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure didn't want to have them in Colorado. I also, if I remember correctly, some of those guys from making a murderer

were in Walpin. Pretty sure. On February 18th, 2019, Chris Watts spoke with the Colorado Bureau of Investigation and gave more details about the murders. He said he woke shenan up on August 13th as he was getting ready for work

because he wanted to talk to her. He straddled her on the bed. while they talked about their marriage and future, she voiced her suspicion that he was having an affair, but he denied it. Then he told her their marriage wouldn't last and he didn't love her. Shanan then told him that he would never see the kids again, and that's when he strangled her.

It sounds like rage got a hold of him. Oh, I think he snapped. Yeah. But he went on to say that he was wrapping her in a sheet. When Bella walked in and asked, what are you doing with Mama? Chris said that she was sick and they were going to take her to the hospital. He said he wrapped Shanan in a sheet and dragged her downstairs.

He put her body on the floorboard of the back of his truck. Bella started crying and then Celeste woke up. Chris put the girls in the truck and drove 45 minutes to the work site. He said he thought about killing them and then himself while he drove. He took Shanan's body out of the truck. he then smothered Celeste while Bella watched. According to the Denver Post, Bella asked him, is the same thing going to happen to me as C.C.? I mean, that is heartbreaking stuff.

We already know that he killed them both. Right. As well as Shanan. But when he comes out with this information, that one sister, you know, had to watch the other sister die and then ask her. father, are you going to do that to me too? Right. Wrenching, heart wrenching. It is. He used a blanket to smother Bella. Chris said that Bella's last words were Daddy No. And she did try to fight as he killed her. After that, he put her body in a separate oil tank and buried Shanan. According to the Denver Post, Chris said he didn't

know what he was thinking and felt like something else was controlling him. He said this was like the epitome of being angry, the epitome of showing a rage, the epitome of losing your mind. During that time, he was driving to the place to dispose of the body, and he thought about killing the girls in himself. He left out that one piece, didn't he? Killing himself. He could do that to the girls, but he couldn't do it to himself. In this 2019 interview, Chris said that he never thought to say Shanan killed Bella and Celeste until law enforcement introduced the idea. So basically saying he didn't come up with that on his own. They must have asked him questions is what he's saying.

Could it have happened this way? Also in that interview, he denied having affairs. He denied knowing a Wyoming man who claimed he and Chris had an affair and denied knowing a Colorado woman who claimed they had sex in a Chick-fil-A parking lot. The Denver Post reported that he expressed regret for the murders and said that he kept pictures of Shanan and the girls in his cell and talks to them every morning and every night. Chris said he wanted to plead guilty after his arrest and told his defense attorneys everything. He didn't want to fight the charges because, according to him, I didn't want them to go through

this for two to four years. I didn't want my attorneys to lie for me for that long. He also said, he didn't want him. regret taking the deal, but didn't expect to spend the rest of his life in prison. What did he expect? What did you expect? That was exactly my thought. I want to go back to this regret.

Okay. You're talking to someone, you know, from a newspaper, you're acting remorseful. You say that you regret your actions. My question always is, do you really regret it? or do you regret what your actions resulted in? Because to me, there's a big difference. Sure, there is. Does he regret the fact that, you know, he got caught and has to spend the rest of his life

in jail? Or does he really regret what he did? And I never am sure about the answer to that. Only he knows. And maybe he doesn't even know that answer. Maybe, you know, he's telling himself different in his head. I just don't even know if he deserves to have pictures of his family. You know, I mean, I can also see where it probably tortures him every day looking at it.

But I just don't know if he deserves to have him. He didn't, didn't respect them. And what he did to him was horrific. But let's go back to this plea deal, right? He didn't want to put his attorneys through. That, that seems strange. Yeah. But also, you killed your pregnant wife.

Yeah. You killed your two young girls and buried one stuff, the other two, and oil tanks. Like they were nothing. Like they were garbage. The most horrific acts, and you're going to sit there and say, I really didn't think I was going to spend the rest of my life in prison. Yeah. What did you think was going to happen? Work release?

Yeah. You know, if you hated his life so much, do something with your life. Leave your wife, your baby to be your kids alone. You don't like your life. You go do something about it. You don't need the hurt to innocent. But that comes up in so many cases, right? Men are in a situation where, let's say they're in love with someone else.

Okay, it happened. Yeah. I'm not saying it's right. You could get a divorce. Yeah. But a lot of guys don't do that because why? They're selfish. They don't want to pay alimony.

They don't want to pay check. child support. So what's the way to solve all my problems and get exactly what I want? Kill my wife, kill my family. And it never works out. No, it never works out. And it just, the level of selfishness, man, I just, and that's not even the worst part of it. Right. On November 18th, 2019, Chris Watts was ordered to pay Shanan's parents, Frank and Sandra Rusick, $6 million. According to, to the Denver Post, family attorney Stephen Lambert said about the lawsuit, it's fairly obvious that Chris Watts doesn't have money. He's not OJ Simpson. We're not going to collect millions out of him. Sandra and Frank Rusick filed the wrongful death suit back on November 19, 2018. The money would

help with funeral expenses, loss of income, and compensate for permanent and continuing emotional distress. But like they said, right, this guy had no money. They're not going to get anything out of them. Right. But if he somehow were to write a book or sell the rights to his story, that lawsuit would ensure that any money would go to the Rusix. The lawsuit also prevents him from keeping any money made from the sale of the family home. So they could get some money out of it that way. My thought is it's not all about getting the money. It's making sure that he doesn't get any month. Yeah. Additionally, on November 20th, Weld County DA Michael Wark filed a claim stating that Chris owed over $41,000 in restitution. I'm sure the county

wants to get some of their money back too. Yeah. They don't like it when they have to spend a bunch of money to prosecute you and house you and do all that. In 2021, a woman named Sherilyn Cato spoke with Inside Edition and stated that she befriended Chris Watts. He told her secrets that not even the FBI knew. She said that she was fascinated by the case. So she started writing letters to Chris. She even visited him in prison. She told Inside Edition at times when he would talk about the murders,

his eyes would turn so black. He would just get a different look on his face. And he talked about it so nonchalant. like going down to get a cup of coffee. In his letters, Chris admitted that he planned the murders for weeks and secretly gave Shanan OxyContin to end her pregnancy. He thought this would make it easier to leave her for Nicole Kessinger. He also revealed in the letters that he tried to smother Bella and Celeste several hours

earlier, but failed. That makes it even worse, man, thinking about multiple attempts. to smother the girls, scaring them to no end before he finally took their lives. He is where he needs to be. Oh, he's definitely where he needs to be. I know there are some people that would argue if you're going to have a death penalty, this would be the good example. The good example or the good place to use it.

Now, obviously, his plea deal included, you know, taking the death penalty off the table. we also said the ruseks didn't want it they didn't want him to get death yeah i think this is another case where you know if you're looking at this family from the outside you think it's a very normal family a happy family but when you peel back the layers and obviously investigators did there were financial issues there were marital issues and obviously there was the affair but this was a case that really shocked the entire country. And I don't think it's hard to see why, right? This is a man who not only murdered his wife.

He also murdered his two very young daughters and his unborn child. Why? Because he wanted to be with some other woman. Yeah. Who said that she didn't really even know him all that well. He lied to her. He didn't want to be married and have a dad life. He wanted to have this other life.

He wanted to be free. Yeah. You know, and I think that's why I keep using the word selfish. I go back to that, that one line. You know, when I was at home, I was just a dad. Yeah. Man, I take that dad moniker with pride. Sure.

And, you know, most dads do. It's an honor. It is. It's an honor to be a dad, a parent. So, you know, to hear him say that, it just, it just pisses me off that that wasn't enough for you. Yeah. That you had two little girls who loved you. You had a new baby on the way.

You wanted to be a playboy. Yeah. You wanted to be free. If you, if you didn't like your wife, divorce your wife, move on. And see your kids on some schedule. Yeah. You know, divorces happen all the time. but he wasn't willing to go that route for whatever reason, mostly probably financial,

or it would take too long. I don't know. Yeah, it would take too long because in Colorado, they have that one year waiting period before you can get divorced, but also he would have to tell Nicole the truth. She's going to find out. And she might have said, you know what, buddy, I'm out of here. But here's the thing, Gibbs. How was she not going to find out?

once his wife and girls disappeared, did he think, okay, this is not going to make the news? He probably didn't think about it, you know? Dumb. I mean, it's just the whole, the whole thing was just so dumb, so callous. Yeah. And you heard the one lady who was writing him letters talk about it. He talked about it so nonchalantly. And a lot of killers do.

Right. You know, she says like going to get a cup of coffee. we talk about, you know, sitting down to eat some pizza, telling somebody which you had for breakfast. Unemotional. Yeah. But that's it. That's it for the case of Chris Watts. Brutal.

It is brutal. Absolutely brutal case. Yeah. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's hear. Hi, Mike and Givie. This is B from Utah.

I know it's a little, really where I'm at because I tend to follow people listening to your podcast. You both do an amazing job with the research and how you present your cases. I really appreciate all you do. I decided to dive back into your older episodes, and I just finished listening to the Stephen McDaniel episode. Oh, my God, that guy was an idiot. But I kept listening, and I got to your banter about your movies that you watch, for as a kid and it was the true crime movies.

And Gibby is not wrong. There is a movie with Don Nott and where he turns into a fish. And it's called The Incredible Mr. Olympics. It is one of my favorite Don Nott's movies. And Private Eyes, classic, a hilarious, classic true crime movie. I love it. And another fun Donnots movie, if you haven't watched it, is the Ghost and Nish 2 Chicken. one of my all-time favorite Halloween movies to watch.

You guys are great. I love you. You're hilarious. I am team, both of you. Stay safe and keep your own time taken. All right. Thanks for the voicemail.

Obviously, that was a long time ago. So many people have come to your defense about the fact that it's a real movie. Obviously, I know it's a real movie. I still have not watched it. I refuse to watch it.

You need to watch it. And I've never seen the ghost of Mr. chicken, what I will say is private eyes is one of my favorite movies. Yeah. Love that one. And my girls love it too. They laugh. Hey, me and your mom listen to all.

Me and my mom listen to all your podcasts, like all the time. So we just wanted to know there's this one killer that was going around a while back where we live. It's called the tomato patch killers in Little Wicci, Georgia. Okay. Thank you. Have a nice day. All right.

Well, we'll have to check that out. I was a little concerned at first. I mean, she's when that person said they were listening to the podcast with my mom. Yeah, I was like, wait a minute. Your mom didn't tell you anything about that. No, I wasn't aware of that. But that's cool that she listens with her mom. It is very cool.

So that's awesome. And that's something we have to look up. Yeah. Because I'm not familiar with it. Hi, Mikey. I'm Olivia. I'm living in Michigan right now. I'm actually a medical student and I listen to your podcast almost all the time.

But I just wanted to call in because I actually got to go on a number of patient to a center for forensic psychiatry where we get to evaluate criminals for competency and see them guilty by reason of insanity. And so it was just really fascinating. I thought of you guys. So thanks for all you do. And keep your own time ticket. Thanks.

But that was exciting. Yeah. That would fascinate me as well. Yeah. To be able to do stuff like that. But awesome. I remember those rotations. They were so cool to go through.

Yeah. I was like 16 when I did mine. But to go through. and you did get these different segments of the medical field. It was cool. Yeah. Learn a lot. I bet you did.

Yeah. Tell me more. Go into detail about some of the things that you saw. Oh, you crack me up, doogie. All right, buddy. We had no mail bag this week. No mail. So that's it for another episode of True Crime All the Time.

So for Mike, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.