True Crime All The Time - Clarence Ray Allen

Episode Date: June 6, 2022

By the 1970s, Clarence Ray Allen had built a pretty good life for himself. He had a thriving business, a loving wife, children, and grandchildren. But, for some reason, that was not enough for Clarence and he started a criminal enterprise that was described as a gang of misfits. He began masterminding armed robberies but constantly told his crew that he would kill anyone who crossed him. And he carried out that threat when he proclaimed that his son's girlfriend, Mary Sue Kitts, was a snitch.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Clarence Ray Allen. Allen was convicted of the murder of Mary Sue Kitts. But, he was angling for a retrial and he thought that his best course of action was to kill the people who could testify against him at his retrial. To do this, he enlisted his son and a hitman who had been in prison with him. Clarence Ray Allen lived a double life. To some, he was a kind man known for going above and beyond for his family, friends, and employees. Others knew him as an organized crime leader who would kill anyone who snitched on him. Clarence Allen had enough influence over his accomplices to order the murder of a teenage girl and arrange several murders from prison. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 286 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, give you, I'm doing good, man, about yourself. I'm doing really well. You and I just got done doing our weekly Patreon episode. We talked about the deadly shootings in Buffalo and Texas, horrible, just horrific stuff. And then there were a host of other shootings over Memorial Day weekend. it happened as well. And like I said on Patreon. Gibbs, I don't have the answers.

I'm not a policymaker. But we need to figure something out. Yeah, something has to happen. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Andreas Moussatsatsos. What's going on, Musattos? Gabby Lennox. Hey, Gabby.

Cody. What's up? Cody. Raven. Christina Noonan. Well, thank you, Christina. Ashley Whitaker. Hey, Whitaker.

Rebecca Israel. Thank you, Rebecca. Dana Venturi jumped up to our highest level. Wow, thank you, Dana. Amy Warman. Hey, Amy. Mary Noriega. Well, appreciate that, Noriega.

L.J. Hughes. What's up, L.J.? Noir Bastest. Well, thank you, noir Bastis. Megan Hughes. Hey, Megan. Susan Thompson. Appreciate that, Susan.

Nikki McLagan. Hey there, McLagan. And last but not least, Katie Fielding. Good old Katie. Thank you. And then if we go into the Vault Gibbs, this week we selected K Sharp. Hey,

appreciate that K. Yeah, appreciate the new Patreon support, the continued support. We had some great PayPal donations from Susan Pierce. Hey, Susan. Lauren Porter. What's going on,

Lauren? And Robin Taylor. Hey, Robin. So thanks to everyone who helps out the show. Gibbs right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, we have an episode out on the Hall Mills murder. We're actually going back. About 100 years.

Yeah. Yeah, we are. But it's a good case, and we're going to dive into it. And a lot of, what's the word I like to use? Speculation, innuendo. All kind of good things. Yeah, it's the type that a lot of people like when it comes to unsolved. Obviously, you have the facts.

You have some persons of interest, and you have speculation about, you know, what exactly happened. And then, you know, when we go to the trial, you know, back then the media was all over it. Well, because there was less to cover. Right. Then there was today. So it was a kind of a big media frenzy. Frenzy.

Yeah, absolutely. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? Well, I'm ready. We're talking about Clarence Ray Allen. Clarence Ray Allen was a guy who lived a double life. To some, he was a kind of man known for going above and beyond for his family, friends, and employees. Others knew him as an organized crime leader who would kill anyone who snitched on him. Clarence Allen had enough influence over his accomplices

to order the murder of a teenage girl and arrange several murders from prison. So we kind of know what we're getting into here. Clarence Ray Allen was born on January 16th, 1930 in Blair, Oklahoma. His family called him Ray Allen. And for basketball fans, a lot of people will gravitate towards the famous Ray Allen, very, very good NBA player for a long time, one of the best shooters to ever play the game. This is not that Ray Allen. Clarence was the youngest of five children. He later reported that his mother was part Choctaw and his father was part Cherokee. Okay. So he's part native and American. Yep. According to him, Clarence started doing field work when he was just 11 or 12 years old. In the early 1940s, his family moved to South Texas. He only received kind of a middle school education

before his family resettled in the San Joaquin Valley in California. And again, Gibbs, you know, a lot of times in these older cases, I kind of look back at my grandfather, my grandmother. I've said it before. My grandfather didn't have probably much more than a middle school education. Right. He was needed on the farm, you know, lived back in the holler and they had to do what they had to do to survive. Sure. School was not what you would think of as a big priority back then, at least when it came to him and his family. And I think that was true for a lot of people. Oh, sure was. depending on what situation they were in. At the age of 17,

Clarence married a girl named Helen Severe, who he met the previous year while doing field work. Helen testified in a 1997 hearing that even though Clarence made decent money, he stole from other workers' cars. Helen testified that they lived in what she called a little chicken coop while they were saving up money to buy a house.

They had two children together, Roger and Kenneth. She said Clarence was a responsible husband and father. He didn't smoke, he didn't drink, and he preached at church. So already there's kind of a lot going on with this guy. Okay, not a smoker, a drinker, went to church, even preached at church. But he was known to steal from his fellow workers. cars. Yeah. So he wasn't above theft. No, no, not according to Helen. In the mid-50s, Clarence began working for the Sunland Olive Company and he was eventually promoted to warehouse

manager. But in 1962, Clarence was convicted of conspiring with other employees to steal olives. Sunland officials believe that the crime ring stole up to 3,000. cases of olives and sold them to various vegetable stands in the central valley. That is a lot of olives. It is a lot of. I mean, I know you love olives. I love olives.

I eat a lot of green olives, especially. That's a lot. 3,000 cases of olives is quite a bit. Clarence was sentenced to one year on the county honor farm. And I think a lot of people, you know, have an image of what a county honor farm is and their mind. You know, it's a minimum security facility. They have rehabilitation and educational programs. But I think a lot of times they're put to work. Clarence and Helen eventually divorced. And he took custody of their two sons. Roger Allen recalled that his father worked at a steel

plant in Fresno County by day. And he worked as a security guard at night. He also said his dad used his keys to a country club in Fresno so that he and the kids could sneak into the kitchen and eat. Well, that's one way to make sure your kids can eat, right? Just take them into the side door of the place that you're supposed to be guarding and go ahead and feed them. Well, and it's a country club, too. So you have to imagine you're getting some pretty good stuff. Yeah. Cook you up some steaks, maybe get some shrimp cocktail, maybe even some lobster, surfing turf action. You're going big time. If I'm at a country club, I want it all. Yeah.

I want the top shelf stuff. I remember I worked at a hotel restaurant, hotel and restaurant, you know. Hotel motel holiday inn. Exactly. And the chef always left the bacon. You know, he cooked bacon and he'd leave it out, you know, wrapped in sarin wrap, you know, overnight. I might ate a piece or two. Okay.

You do know that the USDA has guidelines on. on how long, like, meats and stuff should be just left laying out around? Yeah, I didn't think about that. Okay. But I still ate a piece or two every now. Well, obviously, you survived. I survived, yeah. I think you took a chance, though.

Yeah, I rolled the dice. In 1968, Clarence started his own security firm, Ray Allen's security patrol. He made good money because ranchers in conflict with the United Farm Workers Union, hired his employees to guard their businesses. Ray Allen's security patrol employed 60 people at one point in time. That's a lot. That's a big business. It is a huge business.

It was said that Clarence owned two planes. He had a ranch. He had some show horses. So obviously he was making some pretty good money either solely legitimately or that plus maybe doing some other things on the side. But it was around this time that Clarence married his second wife, Darlene. But I mentioned it right up front, Gibbs. Clarence Allen lived a double life.

You know, and I think that's true for many killers, especially serial killers, right? We hear it in just about every case. There are going to be people, neighbors, friends, associates, coworkers who say, I can't believe it. That guy was a good guy. I knew him to be nothing but a very kind person. person and then you're going to have another set of people who come forward and say, yeah, that guy was a killer. Yeah. I knew he was a killer. I surprised. No, it doesn't surprise me at all that

he did this, this, this and this. You know, my kids are watching that show, um, the Gacy tapes. Yeah. And I kind of think of Gacy as kind of the ultimate double life guy. Right. You know, on the one hand, he's this model businessman, you know, in the rotary club. And I'm kind of the ultimate double life guy. Right. You know, on the one hand, he's this model businessmen, you know, in the rotary club and, and doing all this stuff. Everybody loves them. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's, you know, he's doing Pogo at parties for children. And then he's got this whole other life. Right. That is absolutely nasty. Yeah, nightmare. You know, another guy that comes to mind is Richard Kikklinsky. Yeah. He was killing people left and right. But when you see interviews of his wife and his family, they didn't know anything about it. This is a guy that came home from work and sat down and ate dinner and,

you know, put the kids to bed and that's all they knew. That's why he was ice cold. According to SF Gate, his family and friends said he was a sentimental, kind-hearted soul who provided shelter and jobs to those in need. He donated uniforms to Little League teams. He supported the 4-H club. He paid the restaurant tass. for other people. Okay. Just because he felt like he wanted to and he bought furniture for his friend. Well, again, he's coming off as a really good guy.

Good community member. Yeah, good community member, good family guy, good friend. It was said that Clarence was the first to volunteer to donate blood for a sick friend. He hosted barbecues for employees. He loaned one employee money and paid for him. child's daycare so an employee's wife could work as a receptionist. Clarence apparently valued family spending time together and he did spend a lot of time with his own kids and with his five grandchildren. When Clarence was in his 40s, he joined what was described as a gang of misfits and kind of started

a crime ring. Okay. Got a little crime ring going on. Yeah, well, you got children, you got some grandchildren. That seems like the perfect time to start a crime ring. Yeah. Jerry Jones, former chief deputy DA for Fresno County, told SFgate, he presented himself as a typical successful businessman, but on the side, he had a group of young people who were doing robberies. He was kind of a charismatic fellow, bright enough that he was able to walk between both of these world. He was a controlling guy, a scary guy. They did as he told them. Okay. So he had this successful legit business. And then he had this crime business that he was running because the members of it were scared of him. They're going to do what he wanted. And he was a smart guy, it sounded like,

that he was able to manipulate them into doing whatever he wanted them to do. But here's my question. if you have a successful business, which it sounds like he did. He's got a plane or two. He's got, you know, it sounded like a good life. Why do you need to start a crime ring in your 40s? That's the question everybody has to ask, right? Why? Why not just enjoy the fruit of your labors and your legit job?

According to SFGate, Dr. Craig Haney, a social psychologist, testified at a 1997 hearing. He said, the typical pattern is for someone to be involved in violent activity in their youth. And then as they get older for this pattern to abate. In Mr. Allen's case, it's turned on its head.

Yeah. Reverse. I think it's kind of what we were talking about, right? Why in your 40s, when it seemed like you were doing pretty good legitimately, do you need to start up a crime. I think that's what this social psychologist is kind of saying as well. Clarence Allen was linked to eight armed robberies from 1974 to 1977 in the Central Valley. He used his security firm to gather information for his accomplices to carry out at least two of the

robberies. So again, has this legitimate business decides, well, that's not enough. Right. I need to you know, gain some money illegally. I'm going to use my legitimate business to help make that happen. Now, the following information about the robberies comes from the penalty phase at his later trial. On August 12th, 1974, Clarence was involved in an armed robbery at a jewelry store in Fresno. $18,000 worth of jewelry was stolen from the safe. On September 4th of that year, he was involved in a robbery.

at a hotel in Porterville. $3,600 were stolen from the safe, and they robbed patrons of cash and credit cards. So, so far, not any large sum of cash, right? I mean, I mean, 18,000 is a lot, but it's not like, are you willing to ruin your life over $18,000? Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of money in 1974, but I get your point. If you're making enough money where you got planes and and all this. Do you need $18,000? Do you need $3,600? Right. It does seem strange. Now, on February 12th of 1975, Clarence was involved in the armed robbery of an elderly couple in Fresno. It gives this elderly couple had a coin collection that was said to have been worth about $100,000. So now you're in a little bit different territory. Yeah, that's a good amount of

money even in today's world, but back in 1975. That's big change. On June 18th of that year, Clarence was involved in an attempted robbery at Wixed Forest Products in Fresno. On October 21st, 1976, he was involved in an armed robbery at a drug store in Bakersfield. On November 20th, he was involved in an armed robbery at a grocery store. One of the employees was shot by one of his accomplices. So, So, you know, we kind of mentioned it. Yeah, they're getting some money. $100,000 is a lot of money.

But some of these, they're not getting all that much. It almost makes me think Gibbs that maybe there was a thrill factor for him to be involved in, in this type of criminal activity. No, I think you're exactly right on that. I think there was something that made him feel more alive. On February 10th, 1977, Clarence and his account, accomplices were involved in a robbery at a Kmart and stole more than $16,000 in cash. Jim R. Dates, the prosecutor told S.F. Gate, he styled himself as sort of this romantic criminal

figure. He was just a criminal. He had a gang of hangers on. They were followers. They were easily manipulated petty criminals. He terrified the people around him. They were scared to death of the man. Yeah, and you and I often talk about how does someone get another person, a group of people to kind of go along with what they want them to do? Right. Obviously, there's a number of different ways, manipulation. It sounds like this guy was just scary. Yeah. Like, you better do this.

Or else. Or else. But it was also said that one of Allen's hobbies was writing poetry. S.F. Gate published a poem he wrote in 1977. It reads, Ray and his sons are known as the Allen gang. Sometimes you have often read how we rob and steal. And for those who squeal are usually found dying or dead. Okay.

It's not the type of poetry that you would want to read your little ones at night as a bedtime story. But I also think Gibbs, it gives you a great deal of insight into maybe how serious he was. on his threats to kill people who were either thinking about or who would snitch on him. Well, I think for him to be that scary guy, you have to give him a reason to be scared, right? You just can't be a scary guy. You have to like, there's a reason why you're a scary guy. It's because you showed them.

You can't just say, hey, I'm a scary guy. Right. Yeah. I mean, people are afraid of people for very specific. you know, kind of tangible reasons. Now, if you go around threatening to kill people, okay, that can go a long way towards making you a scary guy in the eyes of some people. Now, let's shift back to 1974.

That was when Clarence orchestrated the burglary and murder that would ultimately lead to his first conviction. It was June 1974. when Clarence Allen planned and committed a burglary of Franz Market in Fresno, California. And he had known the owners, Ray and Francis Schledowitz, for more than 10 years. He solicited two guys who worked for him at his security company to help. Clarence's goal was to steal cash and money orders. What he did was he arranged for 17-year-old Mary Sue Kitts.

his son's girlfriend to get the keys to the store from Brian Shletowitz, son of the store owners. Roger Allen invited Brian to a pool party. Now, the sources don't really say if Mary Sue stole the keys from Brian, but someone at the pool party did because the burglars used them to ultimately break into the store. Mary Sue and Brian went on a date that night. She distracted him. While Clarence and his accomplices committed to burglary, Clarence Allen and two security firm employees broke in and removed a safe with $500 in cash and $10,000 in money orders.

Roger and four accomplices cashed the money orders in Southern California. So Gibbs, this was a pretty successful burglary. They got away with quite a bit of money. but later Mary Sue Kitts told Brian Schlottowitz that it was Clarence Allen, who was the one who orchestrated the burglary of the market. He confronted Roger Allen, who denied his involvement. Clarence Allen also denied burglarizing the market. But Roger told his father, Clarence, that it was Mary Sue, who had snitched on them. Clarence said, that something would have to be done about Mary Sue. Again, let's go back to the words that this man

had said, had written, had, you know, made poems about, he was not going to look kindly on anybody who snitched on him or members of his gang. First off, Clarence went to Ray and Francis Schledewitz, and he denied that he was involved. in the robbery. He told them that they were in danger if they filed their criminal complaint because he had heard someone talking about burning down the store. And apparently Clarence paid one of his accomplices to drive past the store and fire some shots, which intimidated the Schledewitz's. Yeah, that would work, wouldn't it? Well, this guy is someone you know, right, you're friends with him, you're friendly with him.

He comes to you and says, hey, man, this is what I've heard. If you move forward, there are some bad people who are going to come after you. And then all of a sudden, you're working and there's a drive-by. Okay. You're going to be a little bit terrified. Yeah, you're like, oh, man, he knows what he's talking about. He wasn't joking. Do I involve the cops or do I let this go and maybe they won't come after me?

Right. Clarence told some of the members of his gang that Mary Sue Kitts was a snitch. And he had told them all before, right? We talked about it. Snitches would be killed. And apparently he carried around with him a newspaper clipping about this couple in Nevada that was murdered. And he told everybody when he showed them this clipping that he was the killer.

Again, intimidation, fear fact. that's how you become a scary person. Yeah, he did a really good job at that. He knew how to work these individuals. Clarence told two guys, Carl Mayfield and Leland Furrow to get some cyanide to poison Mary Sue. These were two guys who had participated in the market burglary. But the men were reluctant to kill Mary Sue, but Clarence warned them that if they didn't do it, they would die. So either do this or that's okay, don't, but just know that you're next. I'll take care of you. So again, I think the intimidation factor here is extremely hot.

Mary Sue came to a party at Clarence's girlfriend's apartment, but she declined to take one of the cyanide pills. Now, obviously, I'm sure they didn't present it as a cyanide pill. Furrow and Mayfield called Clarence and told him what happened. he said he didn't care what they did as long as they killed mary sue so they tried again and she refused the pills a second time furrow called clearance again he said that if he didn't kill mary sue before they left the apartment he would be killed too so again i'm not condoning what these individuals did what they were doing you know robbing but you have to

to admit Gibbs, they're in a pretty tough spot here. Either you do this or I'm going to kill you. Now, they had options. They could have gone to the police. They could have done a number of different things. But there's no doubt they were being intimidated and their lives were being threatened. Leland Furrow ended up strangling Mary Sue at the apartment. Clarence and a group of men weighed her down with stones and dumped her into a canal.

Weeks later, one of the gang members asked where Furrow was. And apparently Clarence said he was no longer in existence and that he could find someone in Mexico to kill a snitch for as little as $50. That's a small amount for murder. For murder. But he was lying. Lee Furrow was still alive. It's just another example, right, of trying to. keep these individuals in line to keep them scared by saying, I took care of him. You won't be

hearing from him anymore. Mary Sue was reported missing in November 1974. Now, we'll get to it, but Clarence was eventually convicted of her murder, but her body has never been found. In 1977, Clarence Allen brought in Allen Robinson and Benjamin Meyer to the crime ring. According to, to Meyer, Clarence said, if you bring anybody in my house, this snitch is on me or my family, I'll waste them. There's no rock, no bush, nothing that he could hide behind. So I think there's no doubt. He was extremely worried about somebody telling on him. I think that's why he's constantly, you know, telling everybody in the gang, hey, I kill snitch. I kill snitch. is I can get somebody to kill a snitch for $50.

Furrow is no longer around, you know, all of these things. I'm going to do whatever I have to to protect my, uh, my interest. He, he's just trying to scare the, you know what out of these people so that even if somebody does think about snitching, they're going to think twice. Clarence, his son, Roger, Alan Robinson and Benjamin Meyer, Rob to Kmart and Tulare on February 10th, 1977. But apparently, Clarence wasn't happy with Robinson's performance in this robbery. And he started speaking openly about having him killed.

I think in the end, he had Robinson replaced with a man named Larry Green and they prepared to rob another Kmart, which that doesn't seem very smart to me. Okay, I get it. You're not happy with this guy. So you replace him with another criminal, but you're also. talking about having him killed. So I guess you could look at it two ways. First off, maybe you're scaring him so badly that he would never snitch. Or you're forcing his hand. Maybe to go to the police because he's so fearful of being killed. Yeah. I think you're taking a real gamble there. I think it is a

huge risk. When they attempted the robbery on March 16th, 1977, this guy, Larry Green shot Jamble. shot janitor John Ataberry in the chest. And it didn't take long for police to figure out who was involved. Clarence and his son Roger were arrested in late March, 1977. Clarence Allen was convicted of robbery, attempted robbery, and assault with a deadly weapon. And authorities eventually linked him to the 1974 murder of Mary Sue Kitts based on testimony from some of his former accomplices on April 6th, 1977. Clarence was a suspect in the murder while he was incarcerated.

Leland Furrow was also arrested and Leland testified against his former boss. On November 4th, 1977, Clarence Allen was convicted of first-degree murder, burglary, and conspiracy. In 1978, he was sentenced to life in prison. Lee Furrow pleaded guilty. to second degree murder. It's not like Lee Furrow was a smart one here. Well, I think they had him. And so, you know, as you say quite often, Gibbs,

I'm sure they came to him with a deal. Hey, testify against your boss. We'll knock it down from first degree to second degree murder. And that's what he did. Clarence Allen was incarcerated at Folsom State Prison, a place that you know a lot about. Oh, yeah. me and Johnny. You and Johnny both did a little time there. You also did some shows. I did do some shows there. Yeah, your show was much different than the type that Johnny did. Yeah. They had to shut yours down pretty quickly. It got a little too risque. It did for the inmate population. Which was, that's saying a lot, actually. But it was that fulsome where Clarence met his future accomplice, a guy named Billy Ray Hamilton, a guy. A guy.

who most people called country. And the two worked together in the kitchen. Basically, what Clarence started to do was plot to kill all of the people who had snitched on him. You know, he was seeking a retrial. And basically, he decided that he needed to have all of the potential witnesses dead in case he was able to get this retrial. According to SFGate, his main.

his main goal was to have Brian Sletowitz killed because he was one who had testified against him at his previous trial. Clarence paid Hamilton $25,000 to murder a list of witnesses. But apparently Clarence didn't just want to kill potential witnesses outside of the prison. The prosecution presented evidence of a prison murder at his later trial, which showed that while he was in the Fresno County Jail in 1981, Clarence called a death penalty vote for inmate Glenn Bell, who was an accused child molester. And he directed the attack on Bell during which inmate scalded Bell with over two gallons of hot water.

Gibbs, they tied him to the cell bars and they beat him in the head, the face. and then they shot him with a zip gun and threw razor blades and excrement at him while he huddled in his blanket in the corner of the cell. This is what the prosecution laid out to the jury at a later trial. That's just a brutal attack, you know? You got the scolding hot water, the zip gun, razor blades flinging shit at this guy. Yeah. I mean, yeah, it's brutal.

but again, you know, I go back to how is this guy getting all these other people to do his dirty work for him, right? It doesn't say that he attacked Glenn Bell. It says that he directed an attack. He's orchestrating everything. But to do that, you have to be able to get other people to go along with your plans. And apparently this was a guy who was very easily able to do that. time and time again. He was an influencer.

In August 1980, Kenneth Allen, his wife, and his child visited Clarence. Clarence told them about the plot to have Brian and Ray Shletowitz killed. Lee Furrow's adoptive mother, who also happened to be a former girlfriend of Clarence, agreed to change her testimony to help get him acquitted. Kenneth agreed to find guns for Hamilton because he was going to do the killing. Right. He was going to commit these murders for him. His wife, Kathy, helped him by trading drugs for the guns. And Clarence wrote several letters to Kenneth about the plan. One later stated, hey, I hear a country music show is coming to town around September 3rd. Remember

September 3rd. Around that date, y'all be listening to a lot of good old country music, okay? Just for me. You know how I like country. And country in this letter was put in quotation marks. And I mentioned it, right? Billy Ray Hamilton's nickname was country. Another letter from August 27th read, Now remember around September 3rd, have everything ready so y'all can go to that country music show.

I know you all really enjoy yourselves. I know you kids never liked country music before. But I bet when you hear that dude on the lead guitar, you'll be listening to it at least once a week. Ha. Anyway, forget about rock and roll and get lost in the country. Ha, ha. Okay. So these are strange letters, but I also think they were written in a very cryptic way, right?

There are a lot of words that are in quotes and they meant something more than. just what was written. It's almost like it was written in code. A little bit. Yeah, to the recipient. So Billy Hamilton got parole. And three days after he was paroled, Kenneth Allen,

wired him money and met him at the Fresno Bus Depot. They went to Kenneth's house, and Hamilton confirmed that he would murder Brian and Ray Shletowitz. Connie Barbo, Hamilton's girlfriend, came into town to help him over the next few days she told acquaintances that she had an opportunity to make a few thousand dollars and get some drugs for killing someone and again this always blows me away is you're going

to do something bad right you have the intent to help someone do something very very horrible why are you telling everybody about it ahead of time why broadcast it the only thing that i can think of is that some people just have a very hard time keeping their mouse shut. They want to mouth off. They want to, you know, talk big and bad. I don't know. I don't know what else it could be. On September 4th, 1980, Hamilton went to Kenneth's house to get a sawed-off shotgun, a 32-caliber revolver, and some ammunition. Hamilton said he knew there was one safe in the wall and another in the freezer of the grocery store. Hamilton and Barboh left, but came back in 9.45 p.m. Barbos said there was a 15 year old boy in the store and she didn't want to kill him.

So she was willing to kill, help kill for a few thousand dollars and some drugs, but she wasn't about to kill a 15 year old boy. She had limits. Some. It was on September 5th, 1980, that a horrible act of violence ended three lives. 27-year-old Brian William Shletowitz, 18-year-old Douglas Scott White, and 17-year-old Josephine Linda Roka. Josephine Roker was a senior in high school. Yeah, she was young, 17 years old. She wanted to become a teacher. Douglas White was attending community college and had plans to study architecture and law. Hamilton and Barcliffe. Hamilton and Barclay. boat entered franz market at eight p.m. on the fifth they lingered around the store until they were the last customers they pretended that they wanted to buy meat from one of the store employees a guy named

joe rios and since it was closing time the employees locked the front door joe went into the stock room with employee douglas white at first hamilton actually thought dug white was bryant So Brian identified himself. Hamilton led Brian and Josephine into the stock room at gunpoint. Connie Barbo followed him with a gun. Hamilton ordered everyone to lie down, but ordered Douglas White to get up and walk with him to the freezer. When they got to the freezer,

White told him there was no safe. So they walked back to the stock room. Hamilton asked Schlottowitz for the keys to the safe. and Brian slid the keys over. Hamilton made him leave the stock room and instructed Connie to watch everyone else. And she did. She pointed a handgun at them. Hamilton and Brian went to the safe together.

Brian said that he would give up all the money. But Hamilton still shot him in the forehead at close range. So I think that just shows you Gibbs. Yeah, the money was one thing. They were going to get the money. but they were there to murder potential witnesses for Clarence Allen. Yeah, they had a job to do and that was one of the jobs. Hamilton went back to the store room and asked Douglas White where the safes were.

And Douglas kept telling him, man, there are no safes. So Hamilton shot him in the neck and chest at point blank range. When Josephine began crying, she was shot in the heart, lung, and stomach. I mean, these are essentially executions. Yeah, it really seems like it. Billy Ray Hamilton attempted to kill Joe Rios, who had hidden himself in a restroom, but he threw up his arm to protect his head.

Hamilton shot Joe from just about three feet away. The bullet blew off most of the skin and tissue and shattered his elbow, but he survived. How lucky was he? He was lucky, but he was lucky, but he. he also acted pretty quickly to try to protect himself. You know, a lot of people wouldn't think that simply, you know, trying to protect your face, your head with your arms could help save your life when you're, you know, being shot at from just a few feet away. But apparently it did.

Got to try anything and everything. Jack Abbott, a man who lived next to the market, heard the gunshots. he grabbed a gun and stood outside the store. He and Hamilton eventually began shooting at each other. And Abbott hit Billy Ray in the foot. But this guy, Jack Abbott, was also hit during the gunfight. Hamilton fled the scene. But Connie Barbo was arrested that night while hiding in the store.

So this is kind of interesting, right? A guy next door, here's gunshots, grabs his gun. and he starts a gunfight with this guy as he's exiting the store. Right. Joe Rios would later identify both Hamilton and Barbot and testify against them at their 1982 trial. Hamilton was arrested on September 12th

as a suspect in a liquor store robbery in Modestown. The police found an address book with Clarence Allen's name. Hamilton was also carrying a hit list of seven people who had testified against Clarence Allen. So this Hamilton guy was doing all kinds of stuff, right? Robbing, shooting, killing. It's one thing to have Clarence Allen's name in your address book. Okay.

Maybe you could explain that away. But when you're carrying a hit list of seven people who testified against the guy, eh, it's pretty damning. Makes it a little rough. Investigators believe there was a connection between. Between the 1980 and 1974 franz market robbery, Clarence Allen was charged with murder and conspiring to kill seven witnesses. Kenneth Ray Allen and Kathy Allen were also arrested on December 1st, 1980. When Kenneth found out that Billy Ray had been arrested, he agreed to testify in exchange

for protective custody and his choice of prison. So like you always say, Gibbs, you know, at that point, it's just who's going to get the deal. Right. And who's going to get the best deal? And what does it normally come down to? You want to be that first one to talk, man. You want to cooperate as soon as possible. Well, and I also think that it helps when you're connected, but you're not the person that pulled the trigger, but you can tell police exactly how everything happened and implicate the person who did commit the the murders. Kenneth testified that on August 17th, 1980, during a prison visit, his dad said that Hamilton was coming to Fresno to get some things done for him, including specifically murdering Ray and Brian Schledewitz. He said he didn't give Hamilton the sought-off

shotgun, but later on October 7th, Kenneth had a third interview with the police. He said that during the visit, his dad said Hamilton was going to kill everyone who testified against him so that no one could testify at a retrial. He then admitted to providing transportation, money, and weapons to Hamilton. Kenneth also testified at the Hamilton Barbo preliminary hearing on October 15th and 16th. In February 1981, Kenneth entered a formal plea agreement where he would be allowed to plead guilty to accessory to murder and possession of a controlled substance. The DA would recommend three-year concurrent sentences for each conviction. So with good time credits, he would only serve two years.

That's a pretty good deal. It's a really good deal, I think. Now, nobody wants to spend two years in prison. I don't even want to spend an hour locked up. But if you've done something really wrong and you were part of some murders and you can get out of it with a plea agreement and only serve two years. I don't see how you can do much better than that. You sign that dotted line. Now, you didn't pull the trigger, but you supplied the murder weapons. You transported this person. You kind of set everything up to help him.

You played a big role in these murders and pretty much got off almost Scott Free. Yeah. Prosecutors filed a complaint against Clarence Allen in June, 18, 188. for murder and conspiracy, Kenneth testified at his preliminary hearing. His testimony was consistent with his October 1980 statement, but on July 10, 1981, he sent a letter to his dad saying that he would lie to save him. So Kenneth was charged with the murders because he violated his plea deal. A week later, he changed his mind and said that he was actually telling the truth and that he had lied in the letter to his father.

I don't know if that gets you out of that trouble though, right? I mean, well, again, you go from having this sweet plea deal to them essentially ripping it up and saying, no, you're going on trial now for the murders because you're messing with this. I think something like that makes you, you know, reverse change course very, very quickly. and that's what he did. On July 22nd, 1981, the deputy DA and an investigator confronted Kenneth about the letter. Now, he admitted to writing the letter and said he had lied at his dad's preliminary hearing. He said that Hamilton didn't come to Fresno to kill anyone. He was there to fence guns. I don't know what's going on with this guy. He's all over the place, flip-flopping.

I'm saying his story keeps changing. I get it. You want to try to help your dad, but in doing so, you're really putting yourself out there to do very, very serious time when he kind of had what you'd have to call Gibbs a sweetheart deal. He's risking messing that deal up. In late August, Kenneth met with investigator William Martin and explained that he wrote the letter because his wife, Kathy, pressured him to write it in exchange for writing the letter. Kathy resumed giving him sexual favors. Apparently he said he also got drugs while in jail and the inmates treated him better.

But the DA's office was done with him. They didn't reinstate his plea agreement. I hope that those inmates keep treating him good. Keeps getting his drugs. Yeah. Since that's what he traded for it. Billy Ray Hamilton was convicted of murder on September 26, 1981. He was eventually sentenced to death.

death and Connie Barbo was sentenced to life in prison. Clarence's second murder trial started in the summer of 1982. Kenneth Allen ended up testifying against his father in exchange for life without parole. You went from two years to life without parole. Yeah. And you still ended up testifying against your dad. Boy, I don't know how someone could jack up something any worse than this guy did. I mean, I don't feel bad for him. Not at all. I'm totally fine with him spending the rest of his life in prison. I just think it's idiotic when he was looking at such a good plea agreement deal.

He would be out in two years, live the rest of his life. And he just couldn't, he just couldn't stick with it. No, he really wanted those sex favors from Kathy. He admitted to supplying the weapons and transporting Hamilton and Barbo. Clarence Allen testified, he denied everything, but admitted to writing the letters about country, right, Billy Ray Hamilton's nickname coming into town. Kathy testified against Kenneth and said he was the mastermind of the Franz market murders, the police found a list of witnesses, and a mugshot of Hamilton in Kenneth and Kathy's

home. She admitted that she tried to falsify evidence about the murders and that she had sent messages to Hamilton for Clarence. On August 22nd, 1982, Clarence Allen was found guilty of three counts of first degree murder with special circumstances and one count of conspiracy. And Gibbs, he was sentenced to death on September 10th, 1982. So his son went from two years to life. Right. And Clarence went from life to death row. That's just a winning family right there.

Making good decisions all the way around. Oh, yeah. Clarence was transferred to death row at San Quentin Prison on December 2nd, 1982. He received three different stays of execution and remained incarcerated until he wasn't, you know, pretty elderly guy. Towards the end of his life, he became blind. from diabetes, he could barely walk.

He suffered a heart attack in September 2005. His attorney pleaded with Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger to spare his life, saying that he was in such poor health. He shouldn't be executed. They also argued that he may be innocent because the testimony against him came from informants who were treated favorably by prosecutors. But on January 24, 2005, the Ninth Circuit U.S. Court of Appeals upheld his death sentence because of what they said was overwhelming evidence and his lack of remorse.

Yeah, more, I mean, more importantly, lack of remorse. He didn't care. Didn't feel bad about it. I think it's kind of like Appeal 101, right? Or, you know, if you're trying to get out. Yeah. Or if you're trying to have something overturned, even if it's death down to life. You're going to need to put on a show.

Yes. Okay, you may feel no remorse. And I think a lot of killers probably fall into that category. But if you want this, you're going to have to at least act like you feel sorry for what you did. You put on one of the best shows you ever did. The state Supreme Court and the federal appeals court agreed that Clarence's trial lawyer aired by only calling on one character witness during the penalty phase. But they said Gibbs, no amount of witnesses would have changed the jury's mind.

That's a big statement. It could have called 200 character witnesses. It wasn't going to do any good. Clarence's lawyers argued that executing an elderly man was cruel and unusual punishment. But Governor Schwarzenegger rejected his request for clemency on January 13, 2006. The LA Times wrote that Clarence maintain his innocence until the very end and even said in an interview with Michelle Crowell, director of the death penalty information center, I can never express remorse for this

crime because I didn't do it. Now, we just said, right, you're going to need to show some remorse. There are people, you know, throughout history who have been unable to show remorse because as they've said, they didn't do it. And in some instances, Gibbs, it's, turns out they didn't do it. Yeah. You know, we've seen that in false convictions that later get, you know, overturned or it's proven through either DNA or other evidence that the person didn't have anything to do with the crime. Well, I get that. It's, it's hard to show remorse. If deep down, you know in your heart, you didn't hurt anyone, you didn't commit the crime. Clarence Allen was executed on January 17th, 2006, the day after his 76th birthday. According to a prison spokesperson,

he was surprisingly upbeat. Kind of a strange characterization. Yeah, especially on that type of day, right? Going into it. You wouldn't think most people would be upbeat about being put to death. His last words were, first of all, I'd like to say, how good the last meal was, how much I enjoyed it, and how much I love my family and friends who have stood by me all these years. I'd also like to thank my friends from Europe who have written to me and my spiritual advisor Richard Williams, one lady Henny Rip from Holland and another lady from Italy, Christine Kaufman, who I gave an Indian name of Morning Sun. And she's been that to me and all the inmates on death row that I'm leaving behind

that they will be joining me one day. Strange that he would talk about how good his last meal was, right? As part of his last words, I saw somewhere where it said his last meal consisted of buffalo steak and fry bread, which were both said to be traditional Native American dishes. He also had a bucket of KFC white meat only. Okay. Chicken.

Sugar-free piquant pie. sugar-free walnut ice cream and whole milk. I'm thinking at this point, why go sugar-free? I know you're a diabetic. Right. He's got the diabetes, but this is the end of the road. You might as well go all out. Yeah.

He also said, one good friend I've got that I hate to leave behind, who's been my neighbor for 20 years, is Ward Weaver. Hey, Ward. Most people will know who Ward Weaver is. Yeah. We did an episode on Ward Weaver. back on episode 182, he was a pretty nasty guy. But I guess, you know, if you've got a neighbor for 20 years, you're a nasty guy,

he's a nasty guy. Let's be nasty guys together. And I'm sure a friendship developed over that period of time. How could it not? Interesting conversations on thinking. Yeah, I would think so. He said, and all of my family that was here to visit me during this period, I love you very much for being with me during this time. My last words will be Hoka Hey. It's a good day to die.

Thank you very much. I love you all. Goodbye. The execution began at 1230 a.m. Clarence Allen was pronounced dead at 1238 a.m. So Gibbs, as we wrap up this case, there's a lot going on here. You know, Clarence Ray Allen ended up with a life that, you know, I think a lot of people would be envious of, you know, looking at it from the outside. He had this business. It was thriving. He had a wife, two sons, five grandchildren, all who loved him, right? This successful security business. He was well liked and respected by people in the community, but that wasn't enough for him for some reason. Because behind this kind of family man facade, he was hiding a violent killer who, basically would murder anyone who went against him, I think you would have to argue that it was

greed, that must have kind of propelled him to operate outside the law. Oh, I agree. It had to be, right? Because he had this, you can almost say thriving business, but he decided to dive into the criminal world when he didn't really need to. Yeah, I think it's one of the things that really perplexes me about this guy. What was it that made what he had not enough for him? When you would think for most people that would be enough, right? Successful. Good family.

Okay. I got it made. I'm doing good. So it's either I need more money because I'm greedy or I need the excitement or, you know, some combination of both. Yeah. And then later to try to get rid of to kill, you know,

all these people that could ultimately testify against you again if you were able to get a retrial, which most likely would never happen anyway. Right. But you're just going to say, well, I'm just not even going to take that chance. I'm going to do it ahead of time just in case I'm able to get the retrial. I found that so strange as well. The retrial most likely would have never been granted. And so he ends up with death instead of life.

for something that didn't need to happen. People lost their lives for no reason that didn't need to happen. Then the whole Kenneth thing on top of that. Oh, sure. Yeah. So he's got his son involved. Yeah. Who if he'd have stuck with his deal would have gotten two years, he ends up getting life. It's just, it's just such a strange case all the way around. The case of Clarence Ray Allen is also notable because he's the last person to be put to death in the state of California. But that's it for our case on Clarence Ray Allen. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out?

Let's hear them. Hi, my name is Victoria Chesluski. I'm in Minnesota. I just had a funny story to tell you guys. My daughter, who is nine, was out of sleepover. And she was telling them that she couldn't sleep without her podcast going. She's like, I really need to listen to my murder show. And the mom was all freaked out like the murder show.

what's going on and she's like yeah just tell Alexa to play true crime all the time so I just wanted to tell you guys that funny story so shout out to Evelyn when you get to this episode of whenever this airs but yeah I just want to let you guys know that we're team both of you and keep your own time taken all right thank you very much for the voicemail shout out to Evelyn for sure hello this is Gary Howard I haven't left my name and the last messages where I give you some suggestions. But yeah, it's amazing. I haven't been through Dayton in years.

I'm a truck driver. And since I binge listen to all episodes of TCATs, I have been through Dayton like 20 times. In fact, I am driving through right now through Dayton. It's the 27th. And approximately it's 317. team and it looks like you guys are getting very wet. So stay safe. I know the first time I drove to here was when a tornado came through here five years ago

and it wasn't pretty. So be careful and keep your head on the swivel for these tornadoes and keep your own time ticking. I'll keep my tire spinning rubber side down always forward. Y'all take care. And I am team nobody. Man, 317, you just missed us. Yeah. So we did have quite a bit of rain a while back.

And we are kind of at the, what, the tail end of Tornado Alley? Yeah. We do have some bad tornadoes every now and then. Certainly did a few years ago. I show from Charleston, South Carolina. Really enjoy the show. I just discovered it recently, and I have been hooked on it since I listen to it all a time for my drive at work.

And going through some past episodes, from what I've seen, it doesn't look like you all have covered a certain story that I would like y'all to see covered. I'm pretty sure many people have requested it, but it would be the story on Gary Leon Ridgeway, the Green River Killer. I think that would be a really good episode for Mike and give you to cover. Love you guys. Keep up the great work. I'll be looking forward to seeing that one.

All right. Thanks for the voicemail. Yeah, definitely Ridgeway is on the list. He's a big timer. What we would call a big timer. So you never know. He might be 300. Maybe.

Might be a future milestone case for sure. We had some mailbag Gibbs. Yeah. Carol Hack sent us a book that she wrote called What Was Taken. It's the story of a killer named David James Torgerson. So we need to make sure he's on the list. But what's amazing is that Carol was Torgerson's first victim and lived to tell her story. So we just got the book.

I haven't had a chance to read it yet, but I'm very interested in it. And ultimately, we may do an episode on him. Thank you. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Ghiby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.