True Crime All The Time - Cody Posey

Episode Date: January 30, 2023

In July 2004, 14-year-old Cody Posey killed his father, stepmother, and stepsister. Prosecutors argued that his actions on the day of the murder showed that he was calculated in his actions. Cody would give shocking and graphic testimony claiming he killed his family after suffering physical, emotional, and sexual abuse from his father and stepmother.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the case of Cody Posey. The revelations of abuse caused some to side with him before and during his trial. How would the jury weigh all of the evidence presented to them? Would they see Cody as a calculating murderer, or would they use the evidence of abuse as a mitigating factor?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 318 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey, I'm doing good. How about yourself? I'm doing very well, man. I've had a great week.

Good. And I don't say that every week, but it's just been a really good week for me. Good. Nothing in particular. It just things are kind of going good. Do you have fun in the snow? You know, we thought we were going to get a bunch and then we'd, didn't.

It doesn't have a bunch either. I just had some. Yeah, just a little bit. A lot of yellow snow. Did you have a lot of yellow snow? I know you like to make that special ice cream out of that yellow snow. I keep telling you not to, but. It tastes so good.

You don't listen. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Liz. Hey, Liz. Ariane Palmer. Well, thank you, Arienne. Michael McDougal. Hey, Michael.

Ashley Loftus. What's going on, Loftus? Michelle Legg. Hey, Michelle. The lure Einerson. Hey, Inerson. Shalen Springer. Thank you, Shailen.

Michael Brookman. What's going on, Brookman? Allison Kinney. Hey, Allison. Jessica Cardinas. There's Jessica. Jeannie Russell jumped out of our highest level. That's awesome, Jeannie.

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Man, Jana, thank you. Josephin Sondon. Hey, Josephin. And last but not least, Margaret Spell. Appreciate that, Margaret. And then if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Katie Howe.

Hey, there's Katie. Yeah. So when it comes to Patreon, we appreciate the new support and the continued support. We did some great PayPal donations from Chris Baines. Hey, Chris. Peter Doman gave a very large donation. You're awesome, Peter. And we had another one from Johnny Spark.

Hey, Johnny. So we appreciate all of that. So Gibbs, we have a lot of. out right now. We dropped a brand new Patreon episode on Saturday on Casey Viner. This was an 18 year old who was an online gamer, got into a feud with another gamer that resulted in a swatting, which is a term that you and I were not familiar with. We got familiar with it during the research, but essentially it was a prank. These guys thought it was a prank. And, it resulted in the death of an innocent man.

So it's a different type of episode for us, but pretty interesting. We also have an episode out on Unsolved right now on the disappearance of Kichet Jacobs. Yeah, we're actually headed to Virginia. We're going to talk about the disappearance of and what led up to the disappearance of her. And a little twist in between, but it's a good episode to go out and listen to it. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am ready.

We're talking about a kid named Cody Posey in July 2004. 14-year-old Cody Posey killed his father, stepmother, and step-sister. Prosecutors argued that his actions on the day of the murders showed that he was very calculated. But Cody ended up giving some shocking and graphic testimony in claiming. in claiming that he killed his family after suffering physical, emotional, in sexual abuse from his father and stepmother. So there's a lot going on. We've got to get right into it.

Cody Posey was born on October 9th, 1989. His mother was Carla Bruised. His father was Delbert Paul Posey, who went by the name Paul. This was a kid who had a pretty difficult childhood. Cody and his mother moved in with his aunt. When he was 11 months old, his parents divorced in January 1992, according to the Albuquerque Journal. In 1994, Cody's mother joined the Navy.

So Cody ended up living with Paul and his second wife, Sandy. Then in February 1995, Jay and Linda Posey, Cody's grandparents and Paul's parents were found shot to death. in their bed on their ranch near Roswell, New Mexico. County sheriff's official said that their wounds were consistent with a murder suicide. Neighbor Jim Forrester spoke about witnessing Paul and his brother Verlin getting what he called their butts busted by their father and seeing their mother with bruises on her face. Linda said that he needed to go away before her husband saw them talking.

Paul Posey also told his ex-wife Sandy that violence was normal in his family. Sandy told Dateline, he did tell me one time. They were driving down the road. And his dad just reached over, opened the door, and pushed his mom out of the car when it was moving. That's extreme. Yeah, that's, that's very nasty. So I think what it's doing is it's painting a picture, right? a family life at the Posey home, it's not good.

No. And, you know, something that you've brought up from time to time is how does that shape children? You know, Paul, his brother, Verlin, they're getting beaten, according to this neighbor. Yeah. He sees the mother with bruises on her face. She's being pushed out of a car. These kids are growing up.

witnessing this type of stuff on a regular basis. What does it do to them? It's not good for their psyche. No, it's not. And I think we've made the point before. Is it teaching them that this is the way things are done? This is okay. This is accepted. If it's all they ever see, of course. They're going to think that's the norm. That's what you do. That's how you treat people. Now, not everybody. I'm sure. would go on to be an abuser themselves, but I laid it out in the beginning. Yeah. That there are claims of abuse. So, you know, in this case, maybe that does play a factor.

Sure. Paul Posey married his third wife, Triome in 1998. Triune had a daughter named Mara Leah Schmidt from a previous marriage. Mary Leah's name is spelled Mary Lee in some sources. But the majority of sorts of sources, report her name as Mary Leah, M-A-R-I-L-E-A, Cody was living with his father, but he wanted to live with his mom. And when Carla retired from the Navy, Cody had plans to go live with her. Now, you could make some assumptions from that, either that he loved and missed his mom and wanted to be

with her, or life with dad wasn't great. And as soon as as I get the chance, I'm going back to mom. So bad, I just want to be out of here. Yeah. Cody's mother had sole custody by April 2000, according to the Albuquerque Journal. And Paul gave up all his parental rights. On July 13th, 2000, Carla Bruce died in a car accident. She was just 30 years old. So Carla, Cody, and her new husband, Russell, Bruce, were on their to Washington, where Russell was stationed with the Navy. According to Cody's aunt Corlis Cleese, Russell Bruce fell asleep at the wheel and their vehicle flipped.

Carla was thrown out of the vehicle. And she basically died in Cody's arms. Wow. Rough. Yeah. That's what a lot of the sources said. Cody was taken away and put into an ambulance. Coralus told the Albuquerque Journal that Cody blamed himself.

Cody blamed himself for his mother's death because he wanted to sit in the front seat. Corliss also told the paper that despite the custody agreement, Paul came to a church memorial service with an officer to pick up Cody. So Cody ended up going back to live with his father. So you have this tragedy, right? Cody's mother dying at just 30 years old. and what it does is force him back into the household with his father, where it seemed as though he didn't want to be.

It also kind of seems like his father really didn't want him. He didn't fight for him. He gave up his parental rights. But now he has him back. In 2001, Paul Posey was hired to work at the Chavez Canyon Ranch, located in Hondo, New Mexico. Paul was the ranch foreman. The ranch was owned by former ABC anchor Sam Donaldson.

Really? Yeah. How about that? Yeah. Sam Donaldson worked with ABC News from 1967 to 2009. He also owned three ranches in New Mexico, according to a 2004 people article. Sam Donaldson gave a statement to Albuquerque station K-O-B TV, saying that he and his wife, Jan, hired Delbert Posey, in October 2001.

According to People magazine, Donald described Cody as withdrawn, like any typical teenager. So we know, you know, these news anchors, they make some pretty good money. Sure. National newsagher. He did that job for 42 years. Yeah. No wonder he had three or four ranches. Yeah.

Just there. Absolutely. So Cody continued living on the ranch with his father, stepmother, and step sister for the next few years. By summer of 2004, Cody had finished the eighth grade. And then on July 5th of that year, Cody Posey killed his immediate family. His father, 34-year-old Delbert, Paul Posey, his stepmother, 44-year-old Triome Posey, and his 13-year-old step-sister, Maralea. Cody first shot Triumph in the living room while she was reading a book.

He then shot his dad as he was entering the house. Then he shot Marilee. Cody put the bodies in a backhoe and attempted to bury them. But this didn't work. So he hid the bodies in a manure pile on the ranch. Afterwards, he stole a truck and left the ranch to go to a friend's house. Buried him in a manure pile. Well, we know he didn't care for his dad.

Yeah. And obviously, we're going to talk more about what was going on in this house or what he claims was going on in this house. But I think you're right. I don't think he wanted to be there. I don't think he liked his dad. No. But we've also talked about these cases where young kids kill. These are not criminal mastermind. No, not at all. In a lot of cases, they haven't really thought things out. They don't know what to do. Maybe this was impulsive. maybe it was planned, but, okay, I've done it. Now what?

I have an idea. I'll bury them using the backhoe, but that doesn't work. Okay. I go to the next thing that I can think of. Hide them in a manure pile. And then I steal a truck and I go to a friend's house. I'm 14 years old. What am I going to do?

That's true. Catch a flight to Guatemala? Yeah, not going to happen. The next day, ranch owner, Sam Donaldson, discovered the crime scene when he returned home from a trip to Santa Fe. CNN reported that he found a large amount of congealed blood in the house. And what he said was a disturbing red dry swath on the floor. So yeah, I'm picturing this scene, right?

He comes back from a trip, walks in, there's congealed blood everywhere, right? And then you have what is pretty obviously marks from bodies being dragged. Dragged, yeah. A deputy came to the ranch at 4.30 p.m. on that day, July 6th, the deputy saw blood trails and a pair of broken eyeglasses on the porch. He found what looked like blood in the bucket of a nearby backhoe. Backhoe tracks led to a patch of a patch. of broken earth in a remote area of the ranch.

The tracks ultimately led to a manure pile where the police found three bodies. The police found bloody clothes and a note inside the home. So again, going back to, you know, kind of my statement, this is a 14 year old kid. Does he not realize that there's blood in the barrel of the backhoe? Does he not realize that this backhoe is going to leave tracks? And my thought is, no. It's not part of the thought process. I can't even bathe him a 14-year-old doing what he did in this case.

But we know it happens. We know it happens with even younger kids. But in this case, I'm just trying to digest the fact that this 14-year-old killed three people. Sheriff's office, detectives worked into the night to process the crime scene. we talked about, right, this deputy seeing some backhoe tracks following them to this manure pile. What I didn't say was that he saw a lot of flies concentrated in one spot. So he used a stick to move things around because obviously that's not something you're going to do with your hands. And he saw the back of a belt, a pair of jeans and a shirt.

So we talk about, you know, discovery. Right. And again, my thought is police have a lot of, I don't know if it's uneventful. That's the right word, but they have a lot of days that are more routine. And then all of a sudden they have something like this. And obviously, this is huge. So they recovered three bodies on the ranch, Paul Posey, Trione, and Merrilea. But Cody Posey was gone.

Didn't take long for them to find him, though he was arrested at a friend's house on the evening of July 7th. He was playing basketball with his friends. Leo and Gilbert Salsito. Gilbert told Dateline, we were up all night shooting fireworks. We were just having a blast all night. We had nonstop fun. Leo told Dateline, I've never seen that side of Cody. Really?

I've never seen him so happy. Isn't that strange? you know. I thought it was very telling. Yeah. That, you know, these were his friends. They'd been around him for some time. And they're saying, this is the most happy we had ever seen him. You know, we mentioned the allegations of abuse up front. And maybe this brought some type of relief to him. Yeah. And obviously, we're going to get into the details of those allegations as we go. But I see where you're going with it. Right. If the allegations are true, then maybe he did feel a sense of relief. Like, this is over. It's not going to be happening to me anymore. I don't know how else to explain these people saying that he was the happiest he's ever been. So sheriff's deputies found Cody.

They interrogated him. Well, for someone being at least, what, 14 years old, had to be kind of scary for the kid. Well, and it also concerned two adults present. Eli Salsito, the uncle of Leo and Gilbert, told Dateline, that's when I went and started asking questions to the sheriff about why. What are they doing? Why doesn't he have a lawyer? What are they doing interrogating him without a lawyer?

They just told me he's not being interrogated. So I guess it really comes down to the word interrogated. Right. What does that mean? Does it mean any form of questioning? And I think a lot of people would say, yeah, if you're talking to the police, maybe it does. Cody was taken to a safe house where there was a room meant for interviewing children. He was questioned by two officers.

Fostino Salcido, Cody's friend's father, was present. So he did have an adult with him. And I don't know who else could have stepped up. Yeah. His mother died. Right. He's just killed the rest of his family. His grandparents are gone.

Faustino told the Associated Press that Cody stayed with him on Monday, July 5th, and Tuesday, July 6th. He played basketball, played in the river and shot fireworks. He said, we didn't suspect nothing because he was all happy. We'd never seen him like that. He told me, these were the happiest two days he'd had in his life. he thanked me for letting him stay. Again, I think it's just reinforcing how happy this kid was during, you know, these couple of days after he killed his father, stepmother, and step sister.

Well, like you said, there's a reason why he's happy now. Cody initially said he left his home on Monday morning and couldn't get in touch with his family. In a second interview, he confessed to everything. According to Dateline, Cody told the officers different stories about getting into a fight with his dad, about cleaning the horse corral. Cody said, and he got all mad and said, if it wasn't illegal, he would knock my head off and roll it across the floor. And it was just a little over an hour into this second interview that Cody admitted to the murder. During his interview, Cody told the police that he took a gun from Maralia's saddlebag after his father slapped him. He also said that his dad hit him with a shovel and tried to strangle him over the 4th of July weekend.

I'm surprised a 13-year-old would have a gun in her saddlebag. Yeah, that kind of shocked me as well. Now, I want to read the following quotes that come from NBC Dateline. And so you have the deputy saying, okay, now sitting here and I'm watching you, Cody, and you got tears in your eyes. And I need to know why. So what did you do, Cody? He said, I tried getting rid of him. The deputy asked him, how?

Cody said, get him off this planet because it would be better here without him. So what did you do, Cody? I shot him with what? A 38 special. Where did you shoot him? In the head. Cody then talked about killing his stepmom and step-sister. The deputy asked him, what about your stepmother?

I shot her too because she was mean. She hit me and stuff. What about Maralea? What did you do to her? Shot her too so she wouldn't go tell or nothing. Where did you get the gun, Cody? Mara Leah had it in her saddlebag for shooting snakes. Cody said that he emptied the snake shot out of the gun

and reloaded it with bullets. So you said I'm surprised that, you know, 13 year old has a gun. Yeah. I am too. I wouldn't let my 13 year old have, have a gun at all. All my guns are locked up.

But now you find out that it was loaded with snake shot, which is essentially like a small version of a shotgun shell for the, lack of a better way of explaining it where, you know, these little pellets come out and, you know, get rid of snakes and things like that. Not saying it's safe by any means. Hey, folks, if your New Year's goals are to manage your budget better and save money, you need rocket money. Rocket money formerly known as True Bill is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills. all in one place.

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Cancel unwanted subscriptions and manage your expenses the easy way. By going to rocketmoney.com slash T-Cat. That's rocketmoney.com slash t-cats. That's rocketmoney.com slash teacad. Rocketmoney.com slash teacet. So at this point, Faustino Salcido interrupted the interview and asked if the deputies thought they needed a lawyer.

And one deputy said it was up to them. Cody said he regretted killing his family because it was the wrong thing to do. I miss them even though they were mean. Fox News reported that Cody said he shot trione first so she wouldn't call 911 and he killed maralia so she wouldn't tell on him Cody used the backhoe to move the bodies to a different area he tried to bury the bodies in one area but had to move them to the manure pile because he couldn't dig a hole

Cody said he then took the truck and went to see friends he lied to them about where his family was So police thought they had a solid case against Cody. He confessed, they captured it on video, but during the investigation, they learned about these allegations of abuse. Slim Britain, the Calhant who worked for Paul Posey for eight months, spoke to Dateline about witnessing Paul abusing Cody. He said, he rides up to him and hits him, whack with the rope, just right in the back. You're out of the drive.

whack right across the back. I never saw a hand laid on him in love. Okay. First of all, if you're a cow hand, Slim is an awesome name. That's the perfect name. I'm just going to put that out here. Right. But what this guy is saying, I never saw a hand laid on him in love. Sad, man. That is horrible. I mean, obviously you have the abuse, which is horrible. Right. But you have the other side of it, which, at least according to this, guy is it was just all abused. Yeah. There was never, you know, him putting his, his arm around his son at any point in time and just kind of embracing him or patting him on the back or nothing. Slim said that he saw trouble between Paul and Cody almost daily.

Paul used harsh words and sometimes beat Cody. What kind of goes with what we said early on, right physical but also emotional abuse well and we said sexual too yeah that's going to come into play jim forster told dayline he was mean real mean on his family jim recalled a time when he was installing a new heater for paul cody was just a baby at the time so he didn't understand when paul told him to move out of the way and jim said all of a sudden paul just leaped and whipped his belt off and and grabbed that kid by the arm and just went to warping him down across the head and ears and face and neck and back. The kid was just screaming, you know, bloody murder.

Okay. This is a baby. Yeah. And you're going to whip him with a belt, not even on the backside, the head, the ears, the face, neck and back. You and I have talked before about getting his. with belts and switches and things when we were younger. It was a different time.

That's not something that I've ever done to my kids. It was pretty common practice, I think, for a lot of people back then. Sure. But I know for a fact, that happened when I was a little older. Right. Same here. Nobody was whipping me with a belt when I was an infant. Oh, this is abuse.

And some people would say what we went through. was abuse as well. I didn't like it. I never really thought of it that way. I thought of it as, okay, I did something wrong. And this was my punishment. It's the price you paid for what you just did. Yeah. That's the way I thought of it. Rightly or wrongly. Cody's mother pulled him away from Paul. Shortly after this, Cody and his mom moved out and she and Paul divorced. And we talked about it, Right. In 1994, Cody's mother joined the Navy. And that's when Cody went to live with Paul and his second wife, Sandy. Sandy told Dayline that she cared for Cody like he was her own child. She tried to keep Paul from hitting him and discussed one incident saying he would yank him out of the bed, the bunk bed on the top, yank him off onto the floor. All right? These people are providing some real insight. Insight. Insight.

into just how mean and nasty this guy was to his son. Sandy said that she once got home from work and saw Paul beating Cody with a board. This occurred when Cody was seven. His mother was on leave at that time and saw the bruises. She called the police. The hospital exam was done and pictures were taken, but no charges were filed. Well, that's a shame, you know, because it sounds like charges should have been filed. Yeah, yeah.

absolutely. So you have all these allegations of abuse and you had a lot of people coming out and backing them up, right? Allegations are one thing. Corroboration is another. And you had a number of people corroborating the fact that Paul was mean and he abused Cody to a severe degree. I think what that caused was some people to side with Cody because of, you know, all of these stories of abuse. Yeah, if you witnessed some of that firsthand, you probably weren't too surprised when you learn about what happened. Even Mara Leah's father, Jake Schmead told Dateline, Cody doesn't need to be punished for this. He didn't do it. Paul and Triome did this. Paul and Triome made him do it. created him and made him the weapon that caused their death and Maralia's death.

And that's from her dad. Yeah. He could be angry and vengeful. Yeah. He can have all kinds of emotions, most of them negative against this kid. And he does it. No, he's saying this 14 year old, you can't blame him. Now, I used a different last name.

I used the last name, Schmead. You know, Dateline, they used Schmead. but a lot of other sources said that the last name was Schmid. Yeah. So I don't know. It's kind of all over the place. Now, Paul's brother, Verlin Posey, told Dateline that the stories of abuse didn't add up and that it was an excuse implanted in Cody by his mother.

Berlin said, anytime he got a spanking, that was abuse. He was told that was abuse. Every time he got in any trouble, he was disliked. he was disciplined by my brother. His mother's family told him that was abused. Yeah, but we also heard accounts from third parties. And those accounts were not swats on the backside. Right.

They were not spanking. Exactly. This is taking your belt off and hitting an infant in the face, in the head, in the ears. That's not discipline. No. That's abused. Verlin questioned why Cody's teachers or school counselor didn't report the abuse. He also said that Paul would have given his life for Cody and Marilee.

Now, maybe that is true. Maybe Paul would have given his life for Cody and Maralia, but I don't know that the two things are mutually exclusive. He could have also been a really bad abuser. And, you know, this question posed by Verland, why didn't Cody's teachers or school counselor report the abuse, well, we don't know. We don't know what they saw. We don't know where the bruises were. Yeah. Were they visible? You know, some abusers are very careful. That's true. They're very careful. They know where they can and can't hit. And because they don't, you know, let's say want to leave marks and bruises where they're going to be noticeable to other people.

So I think it's a pretty unfair question because, at least from our standpoint, we don't have, you know, all the facts around that. Additionally, people have questioned why Paul didn't hit his ex-wife, Sandy, if he beat his son. Sandy told Dateline that Paul never hit her. Yeah, but Sandy also said she came home and saw Paul beating Cody with a board. If you're disciplining somebody, you don't beat them with a board. Well, and, you know, to this specific point, some people don't abuse everyone in their family. Right.

Some people only abuse their children or they only abuse their wife and not their children. Some people only abuse one child and not the other. Yeah. We've seen examples that kind of run the gamut. Maybe he chose to do this to Cody because it made him feel powerful. Who knows? On January 11, 2006, the judge ruled that Cody's videotaped confession was admissible. And this was a huge ruling, right?

He didn't have an attorney. And we've seen in so many cases, juries have said afterwards how powerful a videotaped confession is. Testimony on the 11th focused on whether or not Cody was mature enough to have waived his rights. the Alamagordo Daily News reported that defense attorney Gary Mitchell argued that Cody lacked the maturity to have knowingly waived his constitutional rights during interrogation even after investigators read Posey his Miranda rights on two occasions. Yeah, I'm sorry, somebody at that age, they don't really understand. The implications, what all of that means?

Yeah, there's no way they can understand that. testimony revealed that trione kept a journal and wrote about how she called Cody stupid and how he cried Mitchell said that Cody talked about how his dad choked him and threw rocks at him. Mitchell said that Paul hit Cody as far back as age seven and there was an investigation into allegations of child abuse. Why would someone write that in their journal? How they made somebody cry, a kid. Yeah, you and I have been asking that. in recent episodes about people keeping journals and writing things that are incriminating. And, you know, somebody's going to find these at some point.

Now, his defense attorney says that Paul hit Cody as far back as seven, but we just talked about a witness saying that he was hitting him with a belt as an infant. Right. So I guess it depends on what that person meant by infant, but to me, infant is baby. Right. Small. Yeah. According to the Alamogordo Daily News, Dr. Wade Myers testified for the state and called Cody

advanced beyond the average 14-year-old. Myers said that Cody's IQ was 115 and he scored above average on standardized tests. That's all in good, but that doesn't mean he'll understand the Miranda rights. It just means he's a smart kid. But we know I've worked with in the past some very highly. intelligent people that don't understand things you think they would understand. Exactly. Yeah, I knew you were going to go there because we probably worked with those same people. We're also talking about, you know, measuring IQ. We're talking about standardized tests. Does that

directly correlate to having an understanding of the legal process, what the Miranda rights mean, and whether or not you should talk to the police, and I would, I would argue no. Yeah, I would too. Prosecutor Sander Grisham discussed how Cody described how he took the revolver, removed the snake shot, and replaced it with 38 caliber ammo. Cody also knew that Sam Donaldson would be away, and he admitted to killing Triome first to prevent her from calling 911. He also said he shot her twice, just to make sure I got her.

Grisham said that because Cody had to pull back the hammer before he'd shot, this indicated he was using a thought process. Yeah, I get what they're trying to say here, that he purposely cocked the gun. And during that time, he had the option to not do that and could have walked away. But he chose to cock the gun and fire it. Yeah, I get it. I don't know that it's in question, though, that, I mean, first of all,

that he killed these individuals. Right. And that two, he meant to do it. Yeah. At no point did he say this was an accident. No. You know, I think that it's almost, now a defense attorney is not just going to give it up,

but it's almost a given, right? That he meant to and carried out the killing of these three individuals. He even specified why he killed them and why he killed them in the order he did. And the fact that he had knowledge, how to remove the snake shot and put the other bullets in. Well, he grew up on the ranch. Clearly, his dad taught him because he also taught Maralia. Yeah, I think much different than the situations where you and I live, right?

I live in the subdivision. We're not walking out into the backyard and encountering snakes or coyotes or, you know, things like that. Right. My kids don't need to really know how to use a gun. Right. Because if something happens in the house, I'm here. Right.

But on a ranch, okay. Can you make the case that they're going to be venturing off by themselves? There's venomous snakes. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, there might be or, you know, the fact that they want to protect the horses. Grisham also argued that Cody was thinking when he hid behind the fridge and ambushed his father in Merrilya. Cody said he shot Marilee twice.

so she wouldn't tell on him. Cody described how he hid the bodies and how he attempted to stage a breaking and entering. Okay. So there's an ambush. There's also an attempt to make it look as though somebody broke into the house and killed them. Grisha asked Dr. Myers.

If these were the normal actions of a 14-year-old, Myers said that various elements of the crime show a pretty high sophistication. But he did admit under Mitchell's cross-examination that Cody possibly had depression. He did take medication for depression. I'm thinking he had to. So maybe there's a little bit more of a possibility that he had it. He'd obviously been diagnosed.

He was taking medication. Dr. Christine Johnson testified for the defense that she determined Cody experienced emotional and psychological abuse and suffered from major depression and post-traumatic stress syndrome from the car accident when his mother died, the Alamagordo Daily News reported that Johnson said she got the impression Cody was walking on eggshells to stay out of trouble at home. I actually had that thought in my head when I was doing some of the research, you know, that this boy probably thought anytime he got near the ranch or went in. inside the house, he was walking on eggshells. At any moment, his dad could explode on him.

What am I going to do wrong today? Exactly. That's going to cause me to get beat. Yeah. Yeah, I could see that. Dr. Susan Cave testified that she believed Cody was physically, emotionally, and possibly sexually abused as a child. And she said his life was very strict and rigidly controlled and limited. Gary Mitchell said that Cody's parents were controlling because he wasn't allowed to socialize after school except for a two-week period of playing basketball and knowledge bowls. Cody never went to other sports or school functions. So we have a trial this crops up in a lot of cases, right? You have two sides who are trying to make their arguments.

And I'm not sure Gibbs that both sides' arguments are not correct. You know, the prosecution is saying that he killed them. He meant to kill them. He purposefully killed them. I believe that is the truth. Sure. Yeah. The defense is saying he was abused.

This was a house of horrors that he wanted to get out of, essentially. That also could be true. Yeah. But again, as I always say, right, it's up to the jury. You're hearing all that. this as a juror you're taking it all in what does it mean what weight do you give to this versus that and using all that how do you make your decision yeah absolutely i mean when you boil it down doesn't really all come down to that sure cody's trial started on january 17th 2006 i've already mentioned

it but the prosecution was led by sandra grisham she argued that cody should be convicted of three counts of first-degree murder. His trial took place in a children's court. But Grisham wanted Cody sent to an adult prison. K-O-A-T reported that Grisham said Cody's actions were calculated and methodical. He changed his clothes after the murders. Then he broke a kitchen door window. He left a note saying, sorry, coppers, needed the kid to do the dirty work.

Okay. The note, the window. all part of what misleading the police trying to make it seem as though somebody else killed him. The defense argued that Cody had suffered abuse from his father and stop mother and he knew it would get worse. Mitchell had said that Tryone called Cody names and slapped him and Paul choked him and threw rocks at him. The prosecution actually called Sam Donaldson and he testified about what he saw at the house after the murders. He only testified for about 15 minutes and then refused to answer any more questions. The confession video was shown to the jury on January 17th.

The court saw Cody talk about how the night before the shooting, his father tried to force him to have sex with his stepmother. Okay. That's another input that you're going to have to wrestle with. Right. This confession detailed how the murders took place. Some of it we've already mentioned. Cody said he came from the barn with the gun hidden behind his back.

He shot his stepmother in the head while she was reading. And then he waited for his dad to come to the door and then hit him in the head. Cody said he killed Merrillia so she wouldn't tell. Grisham also detailed Cody's attempt to hide the bodies, how he broke the window to make the crime scene look like a burglary, and how he wrote a fake note for his alibi. Grisham called on Verlin Posey to testify. They wanted Verland to talk about a veiled threat.

Cody made to his father and stepmother when they left home and said they'd come back later. But the prosecution was not able to present this statement. But Dateline did report on the threat. Verlin said, Cody got up and said, well, how do I know it's not an intruder? And how do you know I won't shoot you? And they told him, because we're going to. going out. We'll be right back. And this went on and on. He kept repeating it. Well, how do you know, I won't think you're an intruder and I won't shoot you? That's why they had to lock the gun safe.

And I think you can see why maybe it was ruled that that was inadmissible hearsay or, you know, whatever the ruling was. But of course, Dayline can interview Verlin and he can say it on there. Cody testified on January 19th and spoke about being physically abused by his father. According to NBC, Grisham accused Cody of suddenly coming up with incidents of abuse. In court, she asked, you remember a lot more incidents than you told any of these doctors about, didn't you? Cody answered, I believe so. Yes, ma'am.

Well, maybe he was afraid to tell the doctors at the time. Yeah, I don't know what the reasoning behind it was. obviously you can see what she's trying to do. And that's paint him as a person who is making up additional incidents of abuse or all the incidents of abuse, but adding to them so that, you know, it seems more than what it really was. And, you know, one thing I saw in the research, and I found this so strange because I didn't even know this was something that could be done, but it was reported that Gary Mitchell,

postponed his opening statement until the prosecution rested on January 19th. I've never heard of that. That's news to me. I always thought, okay, the prosecution gives their opening statement, the defense gives theirs, and then we go from there. He told the jurors that an analysis of a computer from Paul's office showed that someone searched for pornographic websites and websites on incidents. says. The Albuquerque Journal reported that Sandra Grisham attempted to bar evidence about the

pornographic websites arguing that there was no evidence conclusively showing that the parents viewed the websites or that the pornography would cause someone to engage in incestuous behavior. But the judge said the evidence suggested that Cody's story wasn't pure fantasy. So again, I think something else very important, right? Whether this gets into the trial or not. The confession was important, that made it in. This evidence about pornographic websites and incest, okay, possibly important as well. And it makes it in. Yeah. And it's probably something that you and I don't talk about enough. You know, when it comes to trials, sometimes make or break is what the judge rules admissible or inadmissible. It can really turn a trial upside down. Oh, certainly can. Or turn it in favor of one or the

other. Yeah, one side or the other. But obviously it's important for the defense because of what Cody had said, you know, that his father tried to force him to have sex with his stepmother. Mitchell showed the jury pictures of the burns that he claimed were inflicted by Paul Posey on July 4th, 2004. According to the Albuquerque journal. Mitchell said that Paul burned Cody with a metal welding rod to try to force him to have sex with his stepmother. During his testimony, Cody described a series of abusive incidents. According to NBC, Cody said in court, when I was a younger child and had loose teeth, I would mess with them and wiggle them around. Okay, what kid didn't? Exactly. That was just like super fun. I remember doing that myself. I always thought it felt good. I'd take my tongue and just move a loose tooth back

and forth, back and forth. But Cody went on to say, my father pops hit me in the jaw to knock my tooth out. And he said, there, now you'll stop playing with it. Cody said that when his father woke him up, he got shocked with a hot shot, which is an electric cattle prod. It's a heck of a way to be woken up. I would call that abusive. Oh, I think it's absolutely abused, both. right? You don't hit your kids in the face, in the mouth, just to knock one of their teeth out because you're annoyed that they're playing with it. And you certainly don't use an electric cattle prod on your children. The defense also called on witnesses to describe Cody's devastated reaction when he found out he would live with his father. After his mother died, one of Cody's teachers talked about a

parent teacher conference where Paul said, you're going to get it when he's. You're going to get it when we get home and you know what's going to happen when we get home. Now, Cody's teacher said that they didn't think this was abused. And I could see that. What does that mean? You're going to get it when you get home. Does that absolutely mean that you're going to be abused or does it mean you're going to your room and I'm going to take away your video game?

I don't know that a teacher can make that determination solely based off of that statement. Yeah, now if the kid's face was all bruised up, yeah, that'd be a different. Maybe it would lead you that way, but yeah, that'd be a different story. It'd be tough. to define. Or even if the kid came the next day. Right. And had all the bruises. Well, now the statement might mean something different. The defense also called on former employee slim Britain. The Albuquerque journal reported computer expert Joe Burchett testified on Wednesday, January 25th that someone viewed thousands of pornographic websites in search for incestuous imagery or text. Okay. Thousands. That's a big number. It's a busy day on the computer.

I don't know that it happened on one day. That would be a lot of websites. Yeah. To search on one day. Bershette said that he could not state with certainty who searched for the pornography. And I think you see that in many cases, right? If you have a computer and it's a household computer, okay, how do you know who was doing what? Yeah. Bershette testified that someone did at least four searches for pornographic material with keywords like father, daughter, incest, or free incest stories during times and days when Cody was at school.

I don't think that kind of clears up of who that might be. Yeah. So they base that on attendance records. And that's really the only way you can tell, right? Somebody is at work when the search happens. Somebody is at school or whatever. You can narrow it down that way. Burchett recovered a list of about 4,000 websites visited by someone in the house.

Half of the websites were pornographic. Much of the data was erased before his analysis. But he was able to recover. 187 pages of incest related material, including photographs. And if I've said it once, I've said it 100 times, it's very hard to get rid of everything off of a computer. Unless you take the hard drive out and burn it, smash it, crush it, there are people way smarter than myself who can figure out how to retrieve it, even though you think you've deleted it. It's not really always gone. Exactly. The prosecutor sought to have this evidence barred. She questioned the reliability and

argued that it was not relevant, but the judge allowed the evidence to be presented. Co-counsel Timothy Rose argued that the evidence was critical to corroborate Cody's earlier testimony. And there wasn't only one computer in the house. There were actually three. According to Bershett, but Mary Leah Posey didn't have a computer modem and the computer in Cody's room, hadn't accessed the internet since 1999. Okay. So it does kind of narrow it down to this one computer. The defense also had Cody testify about what happened the night before the murders.

Cody only told this story in the presence of a female officer when he was first questioned. According to NBC, in the tape, Cody said, my dad and her would like, would have sex or something like that. and they were trying to do something to me. She grabbed my head and put it on her breast. That's how I got these burns. He had a hot torch thing like a welding rod and he told me he was going to burn me if I didn't do it. In court, Cody said as I stood at the front of the bed,

Tryone pulled down the covers and she was laying there completely naked. My dad striked up the torch and told me that I was going to have sex with her. I refused to do it, told him I wasn't going to do it. And as I was telling him, I wasn't going to do it. He was heating up this rod. As he burned me, he told me to do it again and I said no. I remember trium scooting down the bed to the foot of the bed. She grabbed my head, put it into her breast.

And at that time, to make her let go of me, I remember biting her. As I bid her, I got burned another time with the rod. Okay, if this is true, and I think you always have to preface this type of testimony. I get it's a 14 year old, but you still have to say, if this is true, this is nasty, nasty stuff. Yeah. Not only is it incestuous, the kid's 14 years old. Right. Cody's defense argued that it was the sexual abuse that triggered the killings and that Cody

fell as though there was no way out. The defense also explained why Cody killed Maralea. Gary Mitchell said, this was a situation in which he reacted to the three of them in what had been happening to him all his life, and that as a child, he's unable to discriminate and distinguish between the three actors. So I understand what he's saying. I don't know that I agree with it, but I get what he's saying. I think a 14-year-old can distinguish. between the father and the stepmother and the step sister if the step sister didn't do any of these things to him. Yeah, I agree with you. I think to me it would make sense that he should know. And I think he did know he's already come out and said. Yeah. Why he killed her. It's because he

knew she was going to tell on him and he didn't want that. Dr. Christine Johnson testified on January 26th, She testified that Cody's judgment was impaired when he killed his family. She evaluated him in 10 sessions from September 2004 to March 2005 and diagnosed him with major depression, ADHD, and symptoms of PTSD. She concluded that he suffered from physical and emotional abuse and she did believe he was sexually abused. But under cross-examination, Johnson acknowledged that Cody didn't tell her about many examples of abuse he discussed in his testimony.

She also acknowledged that Cody appeared to be thinking clearly on the day of the shootings based on his actions. According to the Albuquerque Journal, when questioned by the defense, Johnson said, Thinking does not equal rational, well-judged decisions. We're talking about someone who could be overwhelmed by emotions. Okay, I think that's an interesting statement. Yeah, actually saying a lot. Yeah, I mean, he's thinking about what he's doing. But what she's saying is that doesn't necessarily equate to making good decision. Dr. Wade Myers, chief of the division of forensic psychiatry at the University of South Florida, testified on January 31st. He said that Cody scored a 19 on a test of psychopathic traits. And he said youths typically score a 3.2. And I wonder if all this abuse that took different forms could have played a role in this score.

Yeah, I have no idea. That does seem like a very high score, though compared to 3.2, which is said to have been typical. Dr. Meyer said he didn't conclude that Cody was physically or sexually abused and didn't believe depression factored into his actions. he said Cody didn't tell him. Many of the accounts of abuse revealed at trial. So that's the second doctor who has said that very same thing. And I think it goes back to the prosecutor trying to hammer home to the jury that she believed Cody was making up stories as he went along, right?

Adding stories that he hadn't told before. Which kids can do. They can do that. It also could be that he wasn't comfortable telling some of the stories at first, and then he realized he needed to tell maybe some of the more graphic ones. I don't know. Yeah, or maybe they were suppressed and they're just starting to roll out. Yeah, yeah, I really don't know.

Prosecutor Janice Shrier gave the closing argument and asked the jury to convict Cody of first-degree murder for all three victims, saying it's not a case about abuse. It's a case about cold-blooded, intentional murder perpetrated by Cody Posey. According to Fox News, Shriar said that Cody's parents were loving and had high expectations of him. He didn't like ranch life and took the opportunity to relieve himself of those expectations and that life. Gary Mitchell argued that Cody was isolated on the ranch and was subject to abuse. On February 7, 2006, Cody Posey was fact. guilty of first degree murder for Merri Leia Schmidt, second degree murder for

triune Posey, and voluntary manslaughter for Delbert Paul Posey and four counts of evidence tampering. So I found this interesting. He got three different degrees of murder, basically, for each individual. Five jurors talked to Dateline and said that the judge gave them instructions about self-defense. Cody had to have been in a immediate danger. The jury decided that Cody could not be acquitted on self-defense claims, but they also felt that the abuse should mitigate the crime. And that's kind of what I took away from their findings of guilt. First degree for Maralea. Right. She didn't abuse Cody at all. No, she was innocent. She was innocent. As far as we know, it never came out in the research.

Right. That she wasn't. He killed. her in his own words so that she wouldn't tell. Second degree for trium and voluntary manslaughter for his father. So to me, that's no abuse, some level of abuse and a lot of abuse. Yeah, exactly. You know, varying degrees of abuse. But that's the way I looked at it. And then I think the jurors backed it up to daylight. Before the sentencing hearing, seven jurors sent letters to the judge asking him not to send Cody to prison and to sentence him as a child. The defense argued that Cody could be rehabilitated in a juvenile program based on his psychiatrist's opinion.

On February 23rd, 2006, Cody was sentenced to five years in state custody. He was 16 years old at this time and he would remain in custody until the age of 21. Now, later as we wrap up, Gives, we'll probably talk about, you know, the sentencing a little more was it right? Was it wrong? Was it fair? Was it not fair? The one thing that jumped out of me early on was the prosecutor asking for him to be tried as an adult and sent to an adult prison. I just can't imagine a 14 year old kid going to big boy prison with serious offenders. Not that he didn't kill three people because he did. How is a 14 year old kid? How is a 14 year old? going to handle himself in a man's prison.

Yeah, you would hope that, you know, upon sentencing that if that was a case, the judge would direct him somewhere else until he was of age, you know, to send a kid at 14, you know, if that's what would have happened to adult prison, I don't know how you can sleep for yourself at night, knowing the back part of this story of the abuse. And knowing that there's probably going to be. a lot more of it waiting for him. Yeah. Inside the prison. Yeah. A 14 year old. Cody told the judge, during the past two months, you've heard accusations of me being a liar, a psychopath. You've heard that I'll kill again or end up back in the courtroom. I can tell you right now that I will never

kill again. The prosecution sought a maximum adult sentence of 60 years. The judge said that he had no discretion to sentence Cody as an adult because the prosecution failed to prove Cody wasn't amenable to rehabilitation. In June 2010, the relatives of the victim's one in 87 million dollar judgment in a wrongful death civil suit, Verland Posey and Pat Basham, Tri-Own's father, filed the civil suit in 2006. On June 8th, 2010, Judge Valerie Mackie, Hugh, rendered a default judgment against Cody after he failed to comply with an order to answer the plaintiff's questions during the discovery phase. She ordered 3.5 million in compensatory damages for the murders of Paul and Triune and 5 million for Meralea, with an additional 25

million each in punitive damages. Okay, that's a lot of money. It is a lot of money. $87 million. But how are you ever going to get $87 million? dollars from this kid. You're not. Not going to happen. Are his wages going to be garnished when he's older? Yeah, maybe. But you're not getting that money.

No. You might get a little bit. The Albuquerque Journal reported that the victim's attorney, Stephen Sanders, said that the award was largely symbolic and that he didn't expect them to ever collect the award, but the judgment will form the basis for future efforts to garnish income generated by Posey. in case he tries to somehow profit from the tragic story. Now that makes sense. Pat Basham said that he didn't plan to garnish Cody's wages,

but he wanted to ensure Cody wouldn't benefit financially. Let's say if he wrote a book about the murders or something like that. And again, to me, that does make sense. You're safeguarding the future. Yeah. It protects that from happening. Yes. In 2010, Cody was released from a state juvenile detention facility on Friday.

on Friday, October 8, 2010, the day before his 21st birthday, he was freed from court jurisdiction. Cody earned a high school degree in almost two years of college credit. Cody's uncle Carl Cleese told CNN that Cody had no disciplinary issues and was a mentor to other youth. Gary Mitchell said he didn't believe Cody was a threat. Mitchell and state officials declined to give information about where Cody was staying. Mitchell said that Cody wanted. to attend college and suggested that he changed his name. So,

you know, as we wrap up this case, this is a very controversial one. I think people are going to have a lot of varying opinion on how this case was handled because I think it's easy to do. There's so many different factors to it. You have a 14 year old boy who murdered and admitted to murdering three people. one of which we said was was innocent right maria two of them did not appear to be innocent based on the

allegations and based on some of the corroborating witness statement right i i think paul the father for sure there was so many different statements about him and his actions uh towards cody now does it mean he should be killed no i'm not saying that at all right But as at least one juror said, do those issues provide mitigation or mitigate the sentencing? And I think you have to take it into account. Number one is age, you know, 14 years old, and this abuse. I agree with you. But I still think you can make the argument or at least ask the question, was five years enough time?

to your point, should it have been, you know, two years and then at 18, he serves X amount of time at, you know, a real prison? I don't know. The judge made it sound like he couldn't have done that if he wanted to. Right. Yeah. Based on the statement that he made. I think the way the judge laid it out there was appropriate.

And you're okay with it. Yeah. Yeah. But I think some people will be in. Some people will say, no. No, he should have done more. Yeah. And I don't blame people for having their opinions.

No, not at all. That's what they should be doing, right? Evaluating the case and kind of making up their own mind about how things were handled. And, you know, to me, I just don't see any way around the fact that this kid was abused. Yeah. Physically, emotionally, you know, the emotional stuff was in Triune's journal for sure. the sexual abuse people said, some said they believed it happened, some said they didn't. Cody obviously said it did.

I think that one's a little harder to prove because nobody else was there. Sure, exactly. But I think the kid was abused. Too many accounts backing that up. Yeah. And if you're physically abusing, you know that you're emotionally abusing as well. They kind of go hand in hand. A lot of times they do.

Yeah. Absolutely. Especially if you have the physical, you might emotionally abuse and maybe not do any physical, but if there's proof or evidence that you've physically abused, pretty sure the emotional is there too. So I think some people will think that, like you said, it was appropriate for the judge to sentence him as a child. Others will have the opinion that he should have been sentences as an adult. But this is another one of those cases. It kind of brings up questions of how are the legal? system works, how it should work as it relates to sentencing minors convicted of serious crimes.

If he was 17 at the time of the murders instead of 14, your thought process would be a little different. Yeah. You know? I get that. Do you still have the mitigating circumstances? I would say yes. Yeah. But does he do more time?

And I would say the answer was probably yes. Yeah. But I mean, that's the case of. Cody Posey. It's one that I think will provoke a lot of thought and people and an opinion. Yeah. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out?

Yes, hear him. Well, I had to call because I've never, ever since I've been listening to y'all been disappointed. But in the latest episode, I have to admit, I was

disappointed. So, I'm going to let you know what I was so disappointed about because I think you could remedy it. That was hard to say. When you told Gibby to do his calculation on what the difference in the amount of money would be from, like, way back then until now, you didn't do the, I can't do the sound like you do because it's fantastic. Your sound, but beep-be-bo-be-be-be-be-pe-pe-pe-pe-pe-pe. I can't do that as good as you.

But you didn't do it. I was so disappointed. Please, please, please tell me that you're not taking that out permanently. Because I still love y'all anyway, but I was so. disappointed. Bye. So I think what she's saying, Gibbs, is that she was disappointed. I think so.

That was the main crux. At you. Yeah, had me. Yeah. And obviously, I'm not taking it out. I just forgot to do it. Wow, you know, it happened. Bebo, bebo, beepo, boop.

There it is. So, yeah, it just slipped my mind. I'm usually pretty good about remembering it. And that time I forgot. But, you know, that voicemail will be seared into my brain and hopefully will cause me not to forget. Never ever, will you? In the future. Hi, Mike and Mike. My name's Johnny Sparks, and I'm in Lexington, Kentucky, and I just wanted to offer some feedback about your June 26th episode about Miyazaki.

And my mom was half Japanese, my grandmother was Japanese, and I have Japanese cousins. Just wanted to give you a little feedback on the Japanese culture, which, unfortunately, the abuse of women is still a common and hidden accent. of their culture, not as much as it used to be, but so it is better. And a child with any physical and or mental deficit is considered shameful for the family. So I'm sure that played into the rearing of this young man, but just wanted to share those aspects of the culture with you. And thank you for your program and enjoying it immensely.

I listen like almost nonstop. Thanks again, guys. And keep things ticking because otherwise, then true crime won't be moving. Thanks. Bye. Guessing she's a UK fan. I hope so. She's in Lexington.

Go cats. She's right in the heart. But we appreciate that when people call in and give information. That's going back away. I do remember the case. Yeah. You know, those cases for us are harder to do because, okay, we can research it, but we don't know everything.

about the culture. So we always appreciate when people give us little tidbits of information. We had no mailbag this week. So that's it, buddy. All right. For another episode of true crime all the time for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.