True Crime All The Time - Dana Flynn and Mikel Dreiling

Episode Date: December 19, 2022

On December 22nd, 1992, 40-year-old Randy Sheridan was found dead on the side of the road from multiple gunshot wounds. One of the main suspects was his former girlfriend, Dana Flynn, who was involved in a volatile custody battle with Randy. But as the investigation unfolded, it was revealed that more people were involved.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Dana Flynn and Mikel Dreiling and the murder of Randy Sheridan. Dana was said to have been involved with a pastor named Jerry Rollins. He has been described by some as a cult-like figure who may have had a hand in influencing others. What role did he play in influencing Mikel, Dana's brother, into participating in the murder of Randy?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionThis episode is sponsored by Better Help. Give online therapy a try at betterhelp.com/TCATTSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 314 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, give me, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good about you. I'm doing really well. Good. We just did our weekly Patreon thing and, you know, wish to everyone a happy holiday season.

We want to do that on here as well because after this episode, we're taking a little vacation. Yeah, we are. And we won't be back until the first of the year. I hope you got me a nice room. For you to go on the trip with my family? Absolutely. But we've needed a holiday, so I'm really looking forward to it. Hey, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts.

We had Lil Jakar Lada 95. Hey, what's going on, Lada? Cici. Hey, C, C. Terry LaSelle. Thank you, LaSelle. Michael Jones. What's going on, Michael?

Kaylee Hennis. Hey, Kaylee. T.S. Pence. Well, thank you, T.S. Merna Arrozco. Merna. Sarah Dick, I hate Dixon.

Cynthia Burton. Yeah, that's Tim's cousin. Thank you. Tyler Ploucher. What's going on, Tyler? Katie Mallor. Hey, Katie. And I'm not sure if I've got that right or not.

Marie Flowers. What's going on, Marie? Amanda Calhoun. Hey, Calhoun. Autumn Wags Pack. Jumped out at our highest level. Did you just say Wogs Pack? It could be Wogs Pack.

I actually said Wags Pack, but I think there's a, I think there's four or five different ways. You could pronounce that. I think you're right. Day Sparing. Hey, day. Jennifer Crane. Hey, thanks to Jennifer. Sean Schultz.

What's going on, Sean? Alexander Walsh. Hey, Alexandra. Holly Roche. We appreciate that, Holly. And last but not least, Lynn Austin. Oh, that's awesome, Lynn. And then if we go back into the vault.

This week, we selected Joe Wong. Hey, Joe. Yeah, appreciate that. The new support, a continued support. We had a really large PayPal donation from Kipper Westbrook. And you're awesome, Kippa. Donation from Tanzi, Iowa Food. I will footsie you. And a shout out to Nasa Devaney from John. Oh, that's awesome. Hey, Nacy. Thanks,

John. So right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, we have part two out on the Bain family murders. Yes. So we did part one, part two, we're going to get, you know, into the trial, the appeals and, and more of the details. Make sure you check it out. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I am ready. We're talking about Dana Flynn, Michael Dreiling, and the murder of Randy Sheraton. This story's got a lot to it. Relationships, custody battles, and a pastor of a church who many believe was somewhat of a cult leader. On December 22nd, 1992, 40-year-old Randy Sheridan was found dead on the side of the road from multiple gunshot wounds.

One of the main suspects early on was his four. former girlfriend, Dana Flynn, who was involved in a volatile custody battle with Randy. And we say this time and time again, right? Who are police going to look at first? You know, working inside out, those close to the victim, family, sometimes friends, I think, you know, throw in former girlfriend when you find out that the two are in a heated custody dispute. For sure. Randall Sheridan was born on February 4, 1952 in Ellsworth, Kansas.

He was 40 years old at the time he was murdered. At the end of his life, Randy worked as a truck driver for Walker Stone Company. His brother Rob told the show snapped he was an extrovert, friendly. He had a good sense of humor. He was a good person. Sounds like one of those guys. Everybody enjoyed being around. Much like yourself.

On April 11th, 19th, Randy married a woman named Judith Youngens. Judy and Randy moved into a house near Junction City, Kansas, but this relationship was pretty rocky. You know, it seems as though from the research that Randy moved to Chapman, Kansas within a year of the marriage. And he soon entered into another relationship with a woman named Dana Dryling, who was 10 years younger than him.

Randy and Dana had a daughter, Ashley, who was born in August 1985. According to court documents, Dana filed a paternity action against Randy. Randy was granted reasonable visitation rights and visitation every other weekend. Then in 1986, Randy sought joint custody of Ashley in one. There's a lot of things happening in the courts. Yeah, and there's a lot of people in this story. to keep track of and who's with who at what point in time. So, you know, we'll try to do a good job of laying it all out because after his daughter was born, Randy and his former wife, Judy, got back together.

Court documents detail that when Judy learned about the paternity suit, she and Randy divorced and then Randy moved back to Chapman. But they eventually reconciled and Randy moved back in. So there's a lot of back and forth. So Judy took him back. And then all of a sudden, she learns about this paternity suit. And she's like, nope, we're getting divorced. But then they reconcile. And they're living together again.

They never did remarry. Yeah. But that happens a lot with people. You mean the back and forth, the in and out, the kind of fall apart, stay together type deal? Right. I always wonder, is it that people just realize, you know, I truly love this person. Yeah, I'm upset at what they did or, you know, the situation, but I don't want to live without them. Now, I'm sure it's different in every scenario, but kind of like a love, hate.

Yeah, maybe, maybe. They, they hate what they did, but they love them so much that they're really wanting to try to make it work. So I mentioned that they'd never remarried. Their daughter was born in January in 1989. Judy would later testify that Randy was a good father. So we have Randy and Judy. And then we had Randy and Dana. Then Dana married a man named Steve Flynn.

In November, 1987, they moved to Salina, Kansas. In May of 88, Dana and Steve started attending the Fountain of Life Church. led by a pastor named Jerry Rollins. According to court documents, witnesses said that Fountain of Life was a Pentecostal church, and some testified that church members and the pastor spoke in tongues. They also testified that Rollins claimed he had the gift of prophecy, and he was God's prophet during these later days. You ever go to a church where they speak in tongues?

No, but I had a neighbor that went to a church that did that. Yeah. I never been either. I always thought it would be interesting to see. Now, I will say where my family is from in Kentucky. Yeah. There are some churches down there. I went to one time as a kid.

I don't remember exactly snake handling. Right. But there was some stuff going on. There might have been some tongue. Some tongue. Speaking in tongues. Normally down there, you have some tongue and some snake handling. You got some tongue.

Yeah. And you got some tongue. naked. That's right. The Salina Journal reported that Jerry Rollins and his wife, Leanna, came to Salina from Lancaster, where he established a Fountain of Life ministry. At one point, Rollins was an assemblies of God minister in Salina and moved back in 1985 because a former member urged him to. So he started this Fountain of Life church. It was a very small church. According to some court documents, there were church services that were even held at his home.

That's a pretty small following if he's doing it through his home. Yeah, unless he had a really, really big home, there's only so many people that are going to be able to crowd. So while all this was going on, you know, Randy was living with Judy. He had custody of his and Dana's daughter every other weekend. According to oxygen, both of Randy's daughters played together and things were happy.

Life was going good. According to core documents, in the fall of 1988, Pastor Rollins prophesied that Randy was evil and Steve Flynn was Ashley's father in God's eyes. He also prophesized that it wasn't God's will for Randy to have visitation with Ashley and that God would, quote, take care of Randy. Oh, okay. So you can take a couple of. different things from that, different meanings. It's pretty ominous when we know that this guy ends up as a murder victim.

Right. Dana tried to change Randy's visitation rights after she moved to Salina. Dana believed that the distance between her and Randy's home necessitated the change, basically saying they live too far apart. Yeah, it sounds like she got that from a legal dictionary. Or an attorney. Or him. Who speaks legalese?

Yes. And I mentioned it up front, right? This pastor is big in the story. The church is big in this story. After attending the Fountain of Life Church for a few months, Steve and Dana's marriage changed. Rollins and Dana started spending more time together. They started talking on the phone a lot.

They also went to each other's houses. It was also said that Rollins gave Dana and Steve marriage counseling. Well, I know sometimes pastors. You know, heads of church will do things like that. No, I think they do. And that would be okay if they're impartial, right? Completely impartial. It doesn't sound, and we're going to find out that Rollins wasn't, right?

He's talking on the phone with Dana. They're spending time together. Okay, how's that marriage counseling going to go? And whose favor? Exactly. Yeah. Dana and Steve's son was born in January, 1989. But they got divorced in June of,

that year. And then they would later get involved in a custody battle over their son. That started later in 1989. Also later that year, Randy and Dana's custody battle started. There were problems with visitation because Randy and Dana disagreed over Ashley's upbringing. So Dana's got Randy, she's got Steve both battling her for custody. Yeah, she's got a, uh, custody battle on two different fronts. Dana accused Randy of sexually abusing Ashley twice. And there were some investigations, but investigators found no evidence to support these claims. It came out that police believed Dana was influencing Ashley. In July 1989, Detective Albert Busky from the Geary County Sheriff's Department contacted Randy about these allegations that he was second.

actually abusing his daughter. You would expect the police to do that. That's just going to be normal procedure, right? You got to check that out. Absolutely. I mean, obviously, that's a, that's a horrible crime if it is true. If it's true. And I mentioned it, right? It was around this time that they, that the two were in conflict about visitation. And it was basically these allegations that gave Dana a reason to deny Randy visitation. So Randy had an attorney and his attorney advised him to start documenting these events. Social worker Judy Pierce testified that in June 1989, Dana told her that Ashley was sexually abused. Pierce interviewed Ashley during an investigation. The Department of Social and

Rehabilitation Services notified Randy that they found the allegation of sexual abuse unfounded. Court documents reveal that SRS sent a similar notification to Dana. but her notice also stated that they were concerned that she was coaching Ashley to substantiate the sexual abuse allegations. And the notice emphasized that this type of coaching could be extremely emotionally damaging. And it's pretty jacked up. Well, it's jacked up on a number of levels. Yes.

No, number one, if it's not true, you're saying something. about someone you used to care about that is just so horrible. Which could ruin their lives. It could. It could. Especially if they have more than one. That's right. Yeah.

You said life. Lives. But no, I get where you're going. And it's going to damage their reputation. Yeah. And then I think that on the second front is what the SRS was saying, which is basically you're doing harm to your child. More importantly.

Yeah. Exactly. if you are telling her to say, you know, things about her father that are not true. There's a lot of ways to mess up your kids. There really is. Yeah, you don't need to add anything to make it worse. No. You're always fighting things to keep your child in a good place.

In 1990, Pastor Rollins's wife, Leanna, found an invoice from the company, Adam and Eve. You know Adam and Eve, right? I know you shopped there quite a bit. The, where you get the apples? Yeah. Yeah. That's all they sell is apples. So this invoice showed that adult items were sold to Rollins, but also that they were sent to Dana's house.

Leanna made copies, and she confronted her husband. According to court documents, they wrestled over the invoice, and Rollins was able to get the copy away from his wife. But his wife already had it. She already saw the invoice, right? Yeah, and she had made some copies. So I'm assuming him getting that version of it doesn't really solve any problems. Exactly. That's pretty damning evidence.

And, you know, Leanna rightfully so, I think, believed that he was having an affair with Dana. However, for some reason, Dana moved in with them. And she told her coworkers that she was engaged, but she wouldn't say who her. fiance was. That's extremely bizarre to me. If you're going to move in and you're going to tell everybody that, hey, I am engaged, but I can't tell you to who. Well, two things jump out at me. Number one, if you're engaged to somebody else, why are you moving in with these people? And number two, what a gut punch this must have been to Leanna. You know, she finds the invoice. She believes her husband is cheating on her. And then the woman with whom she believes he

cheating moves in the house. Yeah. Okay. That's going to be an awkward dinner every single night. Every meal is going to be awkward. So Rollins and Leanna were married from 1979 to 1992. In February of 92, Leanna moved out. She stopped attending church. She gave a copy of the invoice to her divorce attorney, but she also gave a copy to Steve Flynn. So back to to your point, Gibbs. Yeah, he was able to get the one away from her that she had in her hand, but she was smart. She had made some other copies.

Yeah. I'm surprised she stayed there as long as she did. Yeah, I don't really know how long she stayed there. The research didn't exactly say when Dana moved in with them. So her divorce attorney got a copy. Steve Flynn got a copy. But Randy also got a copy. copy. In March or April of 1992, Randy contacted Steve Flynn to ask if he was having problems

with Dana. So they started a little convo. They started to exchange information about their respective issues with Dana. Kind of teaming up. Well, it's like two X's talking about, you know, this one person that they both had intimate relationship. with and they both had problems with. And they both went the court against her. Yeah, they were battling over custody. Randy had one of his friends write, Praise the Lord on a copy of this invoice.

And he sent copies to Dana's family. That's one way to get some attention going. Yeah, I think if you're looking to shame someone, if you're looking to, you know, have their family look down on them, that's a way to do it. it, a copy of the invoice with praise the Lord on it was found in Rollins's house after Randy's murder. It also came out that Leanna's brother sold a shotgun to Rollins. Leanna remembered that he

kept it in his closet. She also remembered that the shotgun was still there at the time that she moved out. So, you know, we're setting it up, right, to talk about this murder that is going to come. In May 1992, Dana made more allegations that Randy was molesting Ashley. And she refused to allow him visitation. He didn't have visitation with Ashley until July of that year. And when the visitations were reinstated, they were supervised. You know, if somebody's not doing anything wrong, that's got to be devastating, right? You don't get to see your kid. And when you do, there's somebody in the room to overshadow you. Or at the park or at the wherever you go, they have to go.

Now, I will say the flip side of that is if any of that was true, then you want that to be supervised. You do. So got to put that out there. In August of 92, Randy hired attorney Robert Potra. Randy was concerned about Ashley's welfare. And he felt as though she was being brainwashed. So this attorney secured a custody evaluation for Randy.

And there was a hearing. And on November 3rd, 1992, Dana told Potrov that Pastor Rollins was just a friend. She said, they didn't see each other often. She also said Rollins was not her marriage counselor. She also denied living with him and denied that Ashley lived in the same house as Rollins. And then finally, she denied that Rollins. that Rollins sent packages to her. And going back to the invoice and that evidence.

Well, it's kind of silly for her to deny all this. Yeah, I agree with you. Number one, it happened. It was happening. And some of that stuff is pretty provable. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You know, it would be great if life came with a user manual, but unfortunately it doesn't.

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When we made the switch to Shopify four years ago or so for selling our podcast merge, it was like the entire process became so much more simple. When you're ready to take your idea to the world, do it with Shopify, the commerce platform powering millions of businesses down the street and around the globe. Now it's your turn to try Shopify for free and start selling anywhere. Sign up for a free trial at Shopify.com slash T-Cat all lowercase. go to Shopify.com slash teacat to start selling online today. Shopify.com slash teacad. Randy was evaluated by a doctor per court order.

The doctor testified in court that they had no concerns about Randy's parenting abilities and that the allegations of sexual abuse were unfounded. So we've heard that a couple of times, unfounded. But I also think, I get, you know, that the spouse has the right to. to report anything if they think something's happening. Absolutely. As they should. Sure.

But if they find that this turns out to be more of a, if this is the right word, dictatious. Vindictive? Yeah. Okay. I don't know what that other thing was because I don't think that's a real word, but I knew where you were going. Yeah.

So let's go vindictive. Yeah. Yeah. I think at that point, that person should answer for those. I think so too. Now, I guarantee there are a lot of listeners probably thinking that allegations have been called unfounded before that were not. Just because maybe the investigation wasn't good enough, there wasn't enough evidence.

So I can see that the other side of it as well. I think, you know, the other thing to talk about is that Dana never completed her required evaluation. She didn't even start it until December of 19. 92. Later at trial, the psychologist testified that the evaluation process ended after Randy's death. Wow. So make of that what you will. I don't talk about a delay. The other thing that happened was, you know, Randy's attorney filed a bunch of motions. And there was, there was a hearing set to hear, you know, arguments about these motions. But Dana got a continuance until,

December 21st, 1992. Now, I said right up front, Randy was killed on December 22nd. So, you know, is that a coincidence or was there something to that? And I think we'll find out that there was something to it. So I mentioned that Randy's attorney filed a bunch of motions. One of them was to remove the requirement for supervised visits. And that was granted. Randy got visitation every weekend. And visitation from December 29th through January 3rd for a ski trip. Now, obviously, we know the timing. He's never going to go on this ski trip. Ashley was ordered to have no contact with Jerry Rollins.

Well, they're just looking out to protect the child. Yeah. No, I think so. And eventually, Randy's attorney Potra filed a motion for citation of contempt because evidence from Rollins neighbors showed that Dana allowed Ashley. to have contact with Rollins the day after the no contact order. So let's switch gears. Let's talk about Steve Flynn's case.

In that, he made several allegations against Dana, including physical abuse of their son, a relationship with Rollins, Dana accused Steve of being gay, Rollins exercising so much control over their son that it interfered with their relationship, Dana telling their son that he served the devil and Dana refusing to get counseling. Well, she sounds like a real piece of shit. Well, we know she is because she's in the title of this episode. Right. But in this part of the story, I think you could make the argument just like I did with Dana,

to be fair, that these are Steve's accusations. Right. So you got, you have to kind of take everything with a grain of salt. Right. I would agree with you. She's a POS because her name is in the title of the episode. Yeah, we know the outcome. We know that we know the ending. But let's just dissect some of the things that Steve said. You know, she accused him of being gay. She physically abused her son. She told their son that he served the devil. Okay. You know, some that stuff's pretty rough. Some real motherly love right there. Especially the physical abuse. Obviously, that's the worst of of it all. On December 7th, 1992, The day after Steve filed a motion to modify custody, he was confronted at his workplace by Dana and her brother Michael.

They accused him of kidnapping. And apparently Michael spit on him. Steve testified that because of his motion, he was granted custody. He spit on somebody today. That's assault. I think it should be assault. Yeah. You spit on me?

I don't know what you've got. Back then, it just got you a punch to knock you out if you spit on somebody, at least in our world. On December 12th, 1992, Judy and Randy, I know we're flipping around a lot, but it's the only way to tell this story. They're living together right again at this point. They received two phone calls between 3.30 and 4.30 a.m. Phone records later showed that the calls came from Michael Dryling's home. Judy didn't hear anything on the first call. During the second call, she heard someone say something to the effect of die.

Randy took the phone and said, why don't you grow up, Mikey? And obviously he was referring to Michael dryly. On December 21st, 1992, the hearing in the Dana and Randy custody case didn't happen. Dana's attorney called Randy's attorney that morning and said that she didn't want to go to court. So this is important. This is the day before the murder. The other thing that's very important is that Randy's attorney was able to secure custody for Randy from December 22nd until the Saturday after Christmas for this ski trip, right? We talked about that. And then equal custody after that. So they had an agreement at that point. They had an agreement and they said that, you know, between the two attorneys, they would work out the details on when Randy would pick up Ashley. On December 22nd,

Randy was waiting to hear from his attorney about when he could pick Ashley up. He called Judy between 2.30 and 3 p.m. and said that he had not yet heard from Patra. He said he was going for a run and would call her again at 3.30. And Randy's attorney had been working all day to try to, you know, work out the details of when Randy could pick Ashley up. He tried to call Dana's attorney at 9 a.m. But no one was in the office. He finally talked to her attorney around noon, but the attorney said he was having trouble getting in touch with Dana. So they're playing, you know, some phone tag.

And then once they do get to talk, they're still not able to work the details out. Randy called his attorney at 206 p.m. and left a message saying he was going for a run and will call him when he was done. So attorneys just having all kind of problems trying to get this date set up. date and time. Yeah. Right. On the afternoon of December 22nd, 1992,

Randy Sheridan was found lying face up on the side of a dirt and gravel road about a mile from his house in Junction City, Kansas. Randy had been shot five times with a 12-gauge shotgun. And he was actually found by a meter reader around 3.20 p.m. But police believed that he was killed about a half hour earlier than that. No murder weapon. or shotgun shells were found at the crime scene.

So it sounds like he was killed while he was on his run. Yeah. Yeah, I believe police figured that part out. But I want to go back to the shotgun shells, right? What does it mean that no shotgun shells were found at the crime scene? Well, they had to be either shot from something that would have collected the shells or someone collected the shells themselves before they left the scene. Right.

Now, Randy's autopsy found that the first three shots were consistent with being fired from a car window. So that could explain three of the shells. You know, maybe they ejected inside the car. But the autopsy also stated that it's believed the killer stood over Randy and fired the last two shots into his head. This person wanted to make sure Randy was never going to be saved. Yeah. And anyone who has ever fired a 12-gauge shotgun knows that at close range, standing over somebody into the head like that, it is brutal. It's a close casket for sure.

But to your point, that tells me that at least the last two shots had to be collected by hand. So somebody knew that that was a good idea to pick those up and take them with them. KBI agent Jeffrey Brandow spoke with. Judy Youngens at 5.15 p.m. She told the police that she spoke to Randy. At three, when he said he was going for a run, she agreed to allow them to search her home. Brandau found two folders on the dining room table and two envelopes in the kitchen, which contained documentation about the custody battle. Judy also revealed that a week before the murder, someone called their house in the middle of the and she told them the story that she heard a person on the other end of the line say die.

Randy believed the caller was Dana's brother Michael Drylin. So I think once the KBI agent gets this information, right, you're putting a couple of people pretty high up on potential suspect looks. Pretty quickly. You've got a custody battle. You have that woman's brother possibly. making what some would view as a threatening phone call. Randy's attorney also told detectives to investigate Jerry Rollins in the

Fountain of Life Church. So based on all of this evidence, Jeffrey Brandow and Detective Albert Busky drove to Salina on the night of December 22nd. They went to Jerry's house, but no one was there. Rollins and his son arrived an hour later. Rollins agreed to a search of his home. They removed shotgun shells from the house, but Rollins only allowed Brandau to take two of them. It was said that he seemed very nervous when they found the shotgun shells. No shotgun was found in the home. Rollins gave an alibi for the time of the murder. Agent Brando told Snap to producers.

When I first asked him where he was around three o'clock that day, he reached into his pocket and pulled out a receipt from Walmart where he'd bought a toothbrush. That was a little strange. It's really strange and so predictable. Predictable meaning that it's, you can tell he's trying to establish an alibi. Absolutely. You know, I've been to Walmart many times in my life. I'm sure there are times when I've gone in and bought just one thing, but it's not many.

You know, Walmart's the type of place where I'm bound to see something is going to catch my eye. Or once I get in there, I remember, oh, yeah. I need this, this, and this. Yeah. So very rarely am I walking out with just one thing. This is this one notch up from just going in and buying a piece of candy at the checkout lane. Yeah. Yeah, I get you.

Just to have a receipt. Law enforcement came back to the house later with a warrant and they took the rest of the shotgun shells, a card, and an envelope. The card had for my wife printed on the front. Written inside was the message to my angel, Snowflake. Dana and was signed with all my heart and love your husband, Jerry. Okay. We're getting into some strange territory. Now, they also found a letter from SRS, addressed to Dana.

They found several items with Dana's name or address in the house and a copy of the Adam and Eve invoice postmarked July 29th, 1992. Where this Adam and Eve invoice is all over the place. Just hanging out there. Everybody's got a copy of it. Now, Dana was interviewed on December 23rd at 1 a.m. by Brandau and Busky. It was said that she showed no response when she heard about Randy's death.

She also denied having a sexual relationship with Jerry Rowland. She said that on December 22nd, she woke up, fed her kids, drove Ashley to school and her son to the babysitter, and got to work at Great Plains Manufacturing before 8.30 a.m. She got a call from her attorney between 11 and 12 to call upset her. She felt sick and left work at 1213. She filled up her car and called her mom from a pay phone. She asked her mom to pick up both the kids.

When her mom asked what was wrong, she said she was upset over something in the custody battle. She got to her mom's house after 1 p.m. and stayed until after 7. So she's trying to establish an alibi. And I would say it would be a pretty good one based on the timeline if all of it was true and could be corroborated. Yeah, if it could be. If you can account from one to seven, you're not the murderer. At least you're not the person who pulled the trigger.

Yeah, you would be in the clear. Michael Dryling was interviewed on the 23rd at Great Plains Manufacturing. When he was told that investigators wanted to discuss Randy's murder, he started twitching. It was said that he experienced shortness of breath, rapid breathing, and he avoided eye contact. And there's some true signs right there. I think normally people would look at that as a sign that either you're guilty, you're not telling the truth, or you know more than what you're saying. Michael said he learned about the murder early that morning and that he would probably be called

as a witness because the family was involved in the child. But he was pretty vague initially about what he did on the 22nd. He said he didn't go to work because his knee was bothering him. His mother drove him to the doctor at 3.45 p.m. Well, if I had a nickel for every time you called me at work and said, I can't come to work, my knee is bothering me. That knee hurts again. I'd have 15 cents. You would. When asked if he spent time with Dana in the afternoon, Michael said he spent time with Dana until 3.45 p.m. at her house. Well, that's kind of conflicting what Dana said then. A little bit, isn't it? Yeah. Hard for her to be at her mom's from one to seven if she's at her house with her brother. So agents pressed him saying, you know what,

your answers are too vague. So Michael gave his story again. He said he got up at noon and he went to see his girlfriend. They went to Dana's house. He went inside and his girlfriend. And his girlfriend drove to pick something up. When she came back to pick him up, they drove to his mom's house and got there at 3.30. Evidence did show that Michael went to the doctor at 4.45 p.m. But the doctor said he didn't need immediate attention. And there were no signs of a recent injury.

So again, do you view this as the, I'm going into Walmart to buy a toothbrush so that I can get a receipt? I think you do. I think police were, you know, at the very least suspicious of these stories. Steve Flynn told detectives that he was recently in contact with Randy Sheraton because they were both pursuing custody cases against Dana and they were both in conflict with Dana's family as well as Pastor Jerry Rollins.

Pastor Rollins's ex-wife, Leanna told detectives that she thought Rollins and Dana were having an affair after she found the receipt from Adam and Eve. According to Oxygen, detective spoke to current and former members of the church and learned that Rollins claimed he had a prophecy that Randy was evil and God would intervene. Yeah, I don't think God would come down and say, go shoot this person with a shotgun five times. No, I don't think most people would think that God would do that. but how many stories have we done where people believe that God has told them to do something very, very evil? Yes, really horrific.

So obviously, police learned that there was a court hearing in the child custody case set to occur right before Randy was murdered. And it seemed as though Dana would lose custody of Ashley because she was refusing to allow Randy to have visit. She was also, according to many, allowing Ashley to have contact with Jerry Rollins, which she wasn't supposed to. So I think to police, this provided the motive for Dana to want Randy dead. So they had some motive. They had some clues pointing to Dana. But detectives really had no evidence linking her to the murder.

It would take them two years to build a case against her. But at least they didn't give up. They didn't stop. They kept on working it behind the scenes to make that case. Yeah, because I think they, they were pretty sure that they were on the right track. They just had to go through the work to put the case together. Now, eventually a witness came forward and said that on December 22nd, 1992, at 5.15 p.m., they saw Dana drive through an automatic car wash twice.

Now, I like a clean car or clean. truck. I don't know that I've ever gone through the car wash twice. Well, unless you really want to try to get rid of some residue. Well, so there's a couple of things here. First of all, this siding, this story went directly against Dana's alibi, right? Because she's supposed to be at her mom's house between what, one and seven. Right. Okay. She never said anything about being at the car wash. And I think the other thing it did was that it showed. It showed. to police that she was probably trying to destroy evidence. You know, we all have times in our lives when we're starving for a little bit of excitement.

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That's Slotomania on the App Store or Google Play Store for one million free coins. Dana Flynn and Jerry Rollins were arrested for perjury on January 15, 1993. These charges came from false testimony taken during a November 3rd deposition in relation to the Child custody suit. So it had nothing to do with this murder, but it was enough to give the police a reason to arrest them. Yes. But the very next day, a judicial inquisition into Randy's murder began. So this gave authorities power to subpoena people and require them to give information, which could lead to charges. It continued in February 1993. And a whole bunch of people were charged with perjury as a result of their testimony from this inquiry or this inquisition or whatever you want to call it.

On October 18, 1994, Dana Flynn, Jerry Rollins, and nine others were arrested after a grand jury indicted them for conspiring to kill Randy Sheridan. Dana and Jerry were charged with first-degree murder, conspiracy to commit first-degree murder, and conspiracy to commit perjury. So there were a bunch of drylings, a bunch of Rollinses. But basically, you know, the people charged made up all the adult members of the Fountain of Life Church. And authorities came to believe that the church members conspired to have Randy Sheridan killed because of the custody battle. Well, they probably believed what the leader of the church told them, one, that he was a prophet, too, that for the safety of Ashley, this needs to take place. Randy's evil. Yeah.

That was another part of it. But not once did they stop and think, huh, is this the right thing to do? We're adults here. Why are we allowing this to happen? Michael Dryling was also charged with first degree murder. Authorities believed that Dana was driving that day. Michael was the one who shot Randy and Jerry Rollins helped them plan everything out. But in a really strange twist, the charges were driving.

against a lot of these individuals because law enforcement found out that a photo that the grand jury relied on that led to the indictments was fake. It was basically a company who supplied satellite imagery of crime scenes that didn't really exist. I guess they were charging law enforcement agencies all over the place for these photos. And it turns out that they were doctored. You got to have some big cahoonas to do that to law enforcement, right? Well, it's one thing to scam average Joe. Right. It's another thing to knowingly try to scam law enforcement.

And they were charging them for the work. Right. And giving them doctored, what turned out to be doctored photographs. So a lot of people were released. Their charges were dropped. Mike Dreiling was recharged with making a terroristic threat. just three days after his indictment was dropped. On May 16th, 1995, Jerry Rollins' perjury trial started.

Steve Flynn testified about the statements his son made about Pastor Rollins. He ended up getting convicted of perjury. Then on June 15th, 1995, a judge ordered Dana Flynn, Michael Dreiling, and Jerry Rollins to stand trial for various charges in the Randy Sheridan murder. Judge Richard Wall said the decision was based on evidence of a conspiracy to commit murder linking the three defendants. So we had all of these other people. I think there was 11 people in total wrapped up into this thing initially. A bunch of them were kind of waved away over this photo incident. And really their charges were just around perjury anyway.

Exactly. Just trying to cover for somebody. not saying that perjury is great, but, you know, it really came down to Dana, Michael, and Jerry in the murder of Randy Sheridan. All three were charged with first degree murder, conspiracy to commit first degree murder, and conspiracy to commit perjury. Judge Wall said he found probable cause that they committed the murder and other crimes. He ordered them to appear for arraignment to enter their pleas and set a trial day.

According to the Salina Journal, Dana's attorney argued that the case was created in the theories and minds of investigators who suspected a conspiracy because the defendants went to the same church. Dana's attorney Brent Longer said that the tire tracks at the crime scene didn't match Dana's car and no blood or body evidence was found in her vehicle. Well, we know it's not going to be found on outside of the vehicle because she washed her car twice that day. Yeah, that's very true. And would you expect to find any evidence inside the car if it really went down the way that the authorities theorized that it did? No. I mean, if you were lucky enough to find a shotgun shell, but they're going to pick those up.

So you're not going to have any evidence. There's not going to be any blood in the car. No. Because nothing happened in the car, according to their theory. On October 9th, 1995, Jerry Rollins was sentenced to one to two years in prison for, perjury, but was granted two years probation, so he never went to prison. Dana Flynn and Michael Dreyling's joint trial started on September 25th, 1996. The Salina Journal reported that the state proposed that Dana and Michael killed Randy because

of the custody dispute over Ashley. They were also spurred to kill Randy by Jerry Rollins' prophecies. The day before the murder, Randy won some big, victories in the custody battle and was pursuing a motion for a custody evaluation and modification of the custody arrangement. The prosecutors also noted the December 7th confrontation between Steve Flynn, Dana, and Michael, as well as the two phone calls placed to Randy and his wife on December 12 from Michael Drieling's home. Former co-workers of the two would also testify that they were promised money if they would give alibis for their whereabouts. on the day of the murder.

Okay, not looking good. No, there's some smoke here. We might be starting to catch a little fire. Yeah. The Salina Journal wrote that Dana's attorney called the case a house built on sand. He called Randy Sheridan a womanizer and said, we're going to show that Michael Dreiling, Dana Flynn, and Jerry Rollins weren't even close to the only ones having a motive.

Randall Sheridan was involved in things that can get a man. killed. That's what we'll show you. I think pretty easy to see what the attorney is going after there, right? When you use the word womanizer and say that he was involved in things that can get a man killed, pretty easy to put those dots together. Oh, for sure. But he's got to put that defense out there. He's got to put a defense out there. Yeah. And that seems to be what he went with saying, all right, there was other men, I'm going to say, who would have been upset with Randy for maybe messing with their wives. He didn't come out and say that, but at trial, the state presented evidence that the drive time from the crime scene to the doctor's office where Michael said he went on

the day of the murder was about 55 minutes. They also presented evidence that Michael failed in his attempts to secure false alibis. The state. presented evidence that Dana went through an automatic car wash twice at 5.15 p.m. on December 22nd, she was alone. Dana told a coworker who expressed regret about Randy's death that they shouldn't be too sorry because Randy deserved to die in that he was a wicked and evil man. Pretty harsh words. It's pretty harsh words, but here's my thought. If you were in any way involved in the murder and a coworker comes up to you and says, you know, I'm really sorry to hear about Randy's death. Why would you say what she said?

Yeah. You're really just trying to cast a spotlight on yourself. Why wouldn't you fake it and, you know, shed a tear and say, yeah, it's horrible. It's terrible. Yeah, it's so sad, you know, it was my daughter's father was murdered. But no, she doesn't do that. It went even further because it came out that. Dana asked her daycare provider and one of Ashley's elementary school teachers not to talk to law enforcement.

Which I think if you are law enforcement or you're a prosecutor and you find this out, you've got to be really perplexed. Why would you be walking around telling people that? And if you're those people, wouldn't you find it strange if someone came up to you and said, hey, I know he's dead. Do me a favor. Don't talk to law enforcement. Yeah, it's almost like she's doing everything wrong, right? She's saying all the wrong things. She's giving off pretty much the worst signals that she could give off.

Seems like she thought she had more influence on people than she actually had. Meaning that she could ask these people to do things and it would never come back on her. Yeah. That they wouldn't tell on her. Yeah. Yeah. I think some people do mistakenly believe that. The state also presented evidence of parts of.

the Inquisition testimony of Michael's girlfriend, Jennifer Brock, Cheryl Canfield and Brenda Arvison, Dana and Michael's sisters, Charles Rollins, Shirley Dreiling, Dana and Michael's mother, and their father, Norman Dreiling. And these are, you know, a lot of these people were originally indicted for perjury, later dropped. These witnesses testified about church practices and denied that these practices involved speaking in tongues or prophecy. According to court documents, testimony indicated these practices involved statements that Randy was the devil in that God would take care of Randy. But past church members confirm that these things did take place.

So if you're a church-going person that believes in the fear of God, as it seems these individuals did, wouldn't you have the fear of lying? end of murder, end of covering up a murder. Exactly. All of those things. You would think so. Yeah, it goes against all the major 10 commandments. But I think what you're looking at here are people who are either girlfriends or immediate family.

And so, you know, does wanting to try to save your loved one kind of over trump your religious beliefs? It sounds like maybe it did in this in this scenario. Yeah. Kathleen Garza, Rollins' daughter testified that her father called her and asked if Agent Brandow contacted her. She said that Brando asked her about speaking in tongues. When asked what her father's response was, she said, he said, I really didn't know the answers to those questions, that it was more serious than I knew. She told her dad, she would testify if she was subpoena. And he warned her to talk with attorneys before testifying.

Kathleen testified that when she asked him about his specific concerns, he said that she would be helping put him in prison. Her phone was wiretapped and the authorities obtained a recording and transcript of this conversation. This was presented as evidence at trial. On November 26, 1996, Dana Flynn and Michael Drying were convicted of first-degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder and conspiracy to commit perjury. Michael was also found guilty of making a terroristic threat. On January 27, 1997, Dana and Michael were sentenced to life in prison. They were ordered to serve at least 19 years before they would be eligible for parole.

They also received five to 10 years for conspiracy and one to five years for conspiracy to commit perjury, to be served consecutively. Michael received another one to five years for making a terroristic threat, which, was to be served concurrently. Well, good. I'm glad they got them consecutively. Yeah, except for the terroristic threat, but obviously you are definitely tacking on when those sentence are made consecutive.

On June 20, 1997, the Court of Appeals of Kansas ruled on Jerry Rollins' perjury conviction. They wrote in their opinion, the trial court erred in denying his motion for judgment of acquittal and the cumulative effect of trial errors denied him a fair trial. So basically they reversed his perjury conviction because the judge improperly ruled on an issue that should have been decided by the jury.

On November 7, 1997, Jerry Rollins received two concurrent seven-month sentences for aiding a felon. He received his sentence after making a plea bargain. He chose to make an offered plea. He was originally charged with first-degree murder, conspiracy to commit murder, and conspiracy to commit perjury, just like Dana and Michael. The Salina Journal reported that county attorney Chris Biggs said that the case was circumstantial and a lot of the evidence would not have been admitted. So he only served time from November 1997 to March 1998. But that was the best that the prosecution felt they could get.

and in a sense they have him emitting guilt. They do, but he just didn't serve even, what, six months? And I think, you know, it does anger a lot of people. When you look into this case, a lot of people suspect that his role was bigger than what he was held accountable for. Because according to the Associated Press, Rollins eventually returned to being a pastor. Now, to your point, yeah, maybe his role was bigger, but if you can't prove it in court, then what are you going to do? Maybe the Alford plea was the best way to go. Rollins and Dana have denied being in a romantic relationship.

Dana and Michael's appeals to the Supreme Court of Kansas were denied in 2002. In 2015, Kansas Department of Corrections spokesman Jeremy Barkley announced that Dana Flynn would not be considered for parole again until 2019. Right. You and I just talked on a recent episode where it was like somebody was coming up for parole every year. Right. And I know it varies by state.

So here they're saying four years. Okay. Is that good? Is that bad? To me, every year to put the families through that is way too much, way too quick. Yeah. I think if you're the victim's family, yes. I think if you're the person in prison.

Well, you wanted every year. Yeah, absolutely. On October 16th, 2019, after serving 23 years in prison, Michael Drying was released on parole. He did an interview with Snap, in which he admitted to his part in the murder. At the time, he said he believed that God wanted this done. I'm sure he was kind of brainwashed in a sense. Well, I believe you're right because.

you know, in that interview, he compared Rollins to a cult leader. You know, he said Jerry was very charismatic. He made people feel special and unique. My family was lower middle class, very common, but Jerry had a way of making them feel like God looked at them with particular favor and was really going to bless them. Well, when someone can make you feel that way, you have a tendency to do things you normally wouldn't do to appease them or you know want to follow them listen to them but here's a guy who was actually involved in the murder very involved in what happened basically coming out and saying yeah

this guy was a cult leader yeah so i think that's why you have a lot of people who are upset about what jerry rollins ultimately got michael also said that he noticed that dana was close with Roll. He said, I can see the indicators now that it was more than just a pastor, parishioner relationship. So I think he's, you know, he's shedding a little bit of light on that as well. Well, he's had some time to think about it. Sure. Sure. And he's a free man. Does he have a reason to lie now at this point? I would say no. He also said about the custody disputes. Dana had several conversations with me about Randy sexually abusing Ashley. I think she wanted to reinforce that idea with me and keep reinforcing it a few times to where it would build up. And finally,

you know it would make me feel like something had to be done. And I think that's a very telling statement. And, you know, reading between the lines here, it sounds to me like he's saying he doesn't believe that Randy was doing this, but he believes that Dana was, you know, goading him, building him, you know, into a rage and put yourself in his position. If a family member came to you and said Gibbs that your niece was being sexually abused, kept saying it, kept saying it, at some point, that fire is going to build inside you. Oh, absolutely. If not right away. Yeah, if you've got somebody, your sister or some other family member saying that to you, and it's being reinforced by somebody that isn't a power position or a role like that,

you're going to believe it. Why would they lie to you? And you're going to want to take action. Michael said that Rollins denounced Randy and Steve. He said Randy was demonized more and more as time went on. That created, I think, a thought in people's minds that he was less than human. or if something were to happen, it really wouldn't be a loss. In the fall of 1992, Dana asked Michael to show her how to use a shotgun.

According to him, the weapon belonged to Jerry. He didn't know where Jerry got it, but he knew he had given it to Dana and him to use. Michael said he knew that Dana wanted to kill Randy, saying that was the solution to her problem with Ashley being molested or supposedly being molested. I couldn't know for sure, but it might have been the plan for her to kill him by herself. And then they, Dana and Rollins, adapted the plan or changed it at some point and included me. And this interview with Michael, I mean, it really sheds a lot of light if he's being truthful on just exactly what role Jerry Rollins played. You know, Michael talked about how

conflicted he was when this whole plan came up to murder Randy because obviously it went against all of his religious beliefs. So he arranged a meeting with Rollins. And Rollins suggested that they pray about it after they prayed. According to Michael, Rollins said, I believe God wants this to happen. Interesting, right? I mean, he made it fit his narrative. He said, ultimately it was Jerry's persuasion and persistence that convinced me to perceive that as a righteous thing to do and agree to it. He said the way it was done was textbook for cult doctrine. And as you said, he's had many, many years, right, to reflect over the events and kind of look back on things.

He provided more insights saying, Dana planned to murder Randy on December 20th, but he wasn't alone that night. Judy and Randy's other daughter were home with him. Michael said that Dana said that everyone in the house had to be killed because there couldn't be any witnesses. And Michael wouldn't go with that. Dana called him on the 22nd and told him that that was the day. They went to Randy's house and saw him jogging. Dana said, well, there he is.

That's the sign that we're looking for. Dana stopped driving. This got Randy's attention and he approached them. Dana told Michael now, now. And Michael fired three shots. Michael stopped when Randy fell, but he was still a lot. And Dana told Michael to kill Randy, but he refused. So she took the gun and fired the fatal shot. It was her. Michael said he helped Dana dispose of the murder weapon. He also said that when he was arrested, he still believed

Randy was a bad person. But he claims he was manipulated by Dana and Jerry. They convinced him that Randy was a child molester. Michael said it wasn't until later. that I realized Dana and Jerry would lie about anything to get their way. So I think it's pretty obvious from, you know, what he said during this interview that as time went on and he thought about it, he no longer believed that Randy was molesting Ashley. What he believed was that Dana and Jerry were using that to help, you know, involve him in the murder. You can see how he was manipulated, though.

Sure. Thinking he was doing the right thing. but at the end of the day, who's getting in prison? Dana and Michael. Yeah. Not the third person. No, and I said it, right? Should Jerry be there?

And a lot of people believe so. But if you don't have the evidence that proves exactly what his role was, what are you going to do? And that's Michael saying that Jerry said after they prayed on it, that it's God's will. Yeah. I mean, we don't know 100% if Michael's telling the absolute truth. What I will say is after you've been convicted, what do you have to lose? I guess my thought is your need to lie goes down a little bit. He admitted his part in the murder.

He's just saying, here's what also happened. Here's the whole story. The whole story. So, you know, whether you believe him or not, that's kind of. up to each individual person. Michael said he could never make amends for what he did, but he hoped that by being open and honest, he could bring solace to Randy's family.

He said about Dana's claims of innocence. I know that Dana still claims that she's innocent and didn't have anything to do with this. I don't understand. Why not tell the truth at this point? But Dana still to this day maintains her innocence. The Kansas Department of Corrections website states her earliest possible release date as August 1st, 2023.

And maybe she won't get out. Well, it's also noted on there that this date could be affected by a parole board decision or good time and or program credit. So, you know, when Michael says, I don't know why Dana won't tell the truth, Michael's out. Right. Dana's not. Well, you know, maybe she's hoping to have a relationship with her daughter when she gets out.

and, you know, she's going to remain steadfast in her innocence. Yeah, I just wonder if that is going to hurt her in the parole process. You know, one of the things that I think we've seen time and time again is that parole boards want to see that a person is remorseful. Well, you can't be remorseful if you don't admit to what you've done. Right. Your own brother is saying that you did it. So I don't know.

I don't know. It's also interesting that he got out before her. So, you know, did he admit while he was in prison? I don't know that for sure. I only know that he talked about it in the interview was snapped after he was already out of prison. But it could be that he was remorseful. He did admit. And the parole board took that into account. I guess we'll see next year when she comes up. How her. stance works. But that's it for our story on Dana Flynn and Michael Dreyling. You know, people murder people for all kinds of different things. It's sad. But obviously, there are motives for murder. And some you see more often than others. Greed, we see a lot. Uh, relationships, love, hate, that type of stuff. We see a lot. Custody is a really big deal. Yeah. Now, it doesn't always lead to murder, but sometimes it does. We've profiled a number of them. You know, for me, one of the interesting aspects of this case is Pastor Jerry. Yeah, because, you know, I just said, we've profiled a number of cases where spouses have killed, you know, their spouse because of a

custody battle or, or whatever it is. Here, though, you have this added element of the church, what has been described as a cult-like leader in Jerry Rollins, you know, what role exactly did he play in kind of spurring on the murder of Randy Sheridan? You know, if it's true that he and Dana were having a relationship, well, there you have the other motive, which is he's in love with her, let's say. And he knows she's going to be. through this, he wants to eliminate that from her life. Right. You also have to wonder how Steve felt about all this. You know, after hearing what happened to Randy. When it was all said and done and all the facts came out. I mean, was he wondering, could I have been the next victim if they didn't

arrest these folks? Absolutely, because he was still going through a very similar custody battle. We got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Yes, hear them. Hey guys, this is Tracy. I'm from Tennessee. I'm an over-the-road traffic driver, and I discovered you guys earlier this year. And I just wanted to say I love the show. And I'm not team Mike or Gibby. I love both of y'all. And it's been a hard year. My mom passed away earlier this year, unexpectedly. And you guys have really helped get me through that and made 11 hours of driving every night a lot more tolerable. Anyway, I had a case suggestion for you guys, Thomas Overton out of Key West, Florida. He killed a married couple in the early 90s, I believe it was right before she was about to give birth to her. first child and it took a few years but they finally got him and it was just a really horrible case but I would just love to hear your guys take on it anyway um love you guys keep up the good

work and keep your own time ticking bye I love those uh over the road truckers versus those under the road truckers well 11 hours you can get a lot of listening to oh yeah so yeah OTR uh truck drivers make for great podcast listeners. They absolutely do. When it comes to downloads and listens and all that. Now, very sad that she lost her mom. I know you can empathize. I can with that.

And I do. Hi, Mike and Dave. This is Alexis. I'm from Crestee of Florida. I'm out of now from town and La City. I want to say hello, you guys. You still crack me up. I'm always working from always listening.

I just heard the Jaster case, and it's pretty crazy because I live in Christia, and I can't believe that he went through here, like Ted Bunny was caught in Chicago. I thought that was pretty crazy, like all these crazy market cases. But I did have another one. Like I joined a couple of months ago. I have a lot of dead from my family, but my great aunt was actually murdered. She was stabbed about seven times when she was robbed. It was on call for about 25 years, and they finally.

caught them about five years ago and they put them in prison. It was pretty, it was pretty wild. They were clearing down the house to because I passed it all the time. It's really sad. But yeah, I just want to say thank you guys. I'm team, Mike, on both sides. You guys have a good day.

Keep your own time ticking. Wow, another loss. Horrible, horrible situation. But we could definitely look into that case. If you want to email us the name of the perpetrator, definitely look into it. Good night. You have just,

Red my mind, guys. So I'm listening to this situation. Oh, this is a coroner, by the way, about the mansion and the fire and the murder suicide. And I am sitting here thinking to myself the exact same thing. How in the world did anybody get a urinal from a fan who was identified by his teeth? and the DNA presumably in his bone marrow because there's nothing left. I mean, I have seen exactly what happens in an intense fire. And I cannot imagine that, I mean, the two things, they just don't go together.

And the other thing that I was thinking is it's possible that he did shoot himself in chest, but if there's no body tissue left, they wouldn't know if he shot himself or not because the way they probably told that the other people were shot was because the bullets went through bone, and that's how you can tell after someone is reduced to skeletons. And then all of a sudden there's a urine analysis, and I'm just sitting here going, what? And then, Mike, you just hit it. You just, God, you guys are so smart. I think that you should both become coroners.

That's what I think. Anyway, keep on doing all the amazing things that you do and keep your own time ticking. And I love you both. You know, I tried to test that urine theory outside. You know, I did a year-self on fire. No, I put the urine sample in the fireplace. It didn't survive. No, it wouldn't.

No. So we, you know, just wanted to share that. But we love her too. And I actually said that for her. I knew she was going to call in. I knew she would be the one to call in. But, you know, to be honest, it really did stump me. And it was like, okay, none of the papers,

none of the research said anything about it. Right. Nobody questioned it. They just went ahead and went with it. Yeah. They just wrote it up like that. But what are you going to do? All right, we had some mailbag Gibbs.

Tammy Gibson sent us in a bunch of homemade goodies. Awesome. Appreciate it. Mary Beth Long, who's been a longtime fan of the show, sent you two of the biggest packages we've ever received. Oh, my gosh. They were both chock full of stuff. You choked me up with that one, Mary Beth. Yeah, yeah.

And she knows. We've sent her an email already. but very much appreciated. Yes. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.