True Crime All The Time - David Reed

Episode Date: October 15, 2026

In August 1985, 13-year-old David Reed disappeared after leaving his home in Schuylkill Haven, Pennsylvania, for a bike ride. His bicycle was soon found beneath a railroad bridge, but David remained missing for nearly four months before his remains were discovered in a wooded area nearby. With little soft tissue remaining, his cause and manner of death were initially ruled undetermined, and one theory suggested he may have died from complications of juvenile diabetes. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss David Reed. For years, David’s family questioned the official conclusion and pushed for answers. Two decades later, a renewed investigation uncovered new witness information, leading authorities to exhume David’s remains and reexamine the evidence using modern forensic expertise. In 2008, his death was officially reclassified as a homicide, and investigators began piecing together what really happened on the day David vanished—ultimately uncovering a story that had remained hidden for more than 20 years.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 540 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? I'm doing good, man. How about you? I'm doing great. Yeah. You're awesome. Well, we just, we record a Patreon thing every week, right?

We talk about what we're watching. Yeah. True crime news. How are weeks been going? Talk about what you're wearing. I don't know why. No, you did talk about assless chaps for some reason. Just chaps, but they're assless.

You called them that. I mean, it went sideways really quick. It did. No, life is good, man. Good. No doubt about it. That's awesome. All right, buddy, you're ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time?

I am. We're talking about David Reed. 13-year-old David Reed went missing in August, 1985. After failing to return home from a bike ride, his body was found four months later. And his cause of death was listed as undetermined. It wasn't until 2008 that investigators declared his death a homicide. And then months later, they made a surprising arrest. It's a long time.

It's a really long time. You know, you think about the parents, which we'll talk about, long time to wait to kind of get some answers about about what happened. And sit there and wonder every night. Yeah. Where is he? What happened? Well, they found his body in four months. Yeah, but still.

Yeah. Yeah. What happened? To find out what happened. David Wellington Reed was born on January 17th in 17th, 1972 to parents, Joseph Reed, Sr. And Joan Reed, David grew up in Schuylhaven, Pennsylvania. A weird name.

Yeah. Well, you know, they got that big Schuylkill River that kind of runs through Philadelphia. I don't know how far it goes, but I think that's the big river there. Okay. The Schuylkill River. I don't know where the name comes from, but they talk about it on Always Sunny in Philadelphia all the time. I'm going to guess it's some type of Native American name, most likely, like most of the rivers and stuff around the U.S. It could be that or, you know, it could be a founding person's name.

I really don't know. Didn't look it up. Didn't think that was going to be the big question of this episode. But David's father died when he was just. just 18 months old. David's older sister, Virginia, helped raise him. She told the morning call in 2005, to me, he was my little doll baby. I thought he was adorable. He couldn't do no wrong. Yeah. I think that a lot of us think about our kids like that, you know? Well, this is his older sister. Yeah, but still, I mean, I'm just like, we think our kids are like that. Oh, yeah.

I don't remember. You didn't have a brother or sister? I didn't. And I can't think of what, I have no memories of my little brother until later in life. No, and I think brother, brother might be a little different. Yeah. If you've got an older sister and then, you know, she's like, I mean, that's like a living doll. Yeah. You think about kids playing with dolls. Okay, well, now you got a little baby brother and you're taking care of him and maybe, I don't know, maybe you're combing his hair.

Coming his hair. Having tea parties with him. I don't know. Right not changing the diaper, though. Maybe not. Maybe not. She described David as a kid who was too trusting. And what happened was he trusted the wrong people.

Yeah, but I think a lot of kids are very trusting because they don't know. Yeah, well, at that age, you're naive. You don't, you haven't experienced life. Right. That's why you hear parents all the time talking about don't get into the car with strangers don't talk to strangers don't let anybody in yeah sometimes don't answer the door it's true you know know but this has come up in many of the episodes that we've done lately it seems like yeah right people even adults who are described as maybe a little night yeah or just a little too trusting and they want

to see the good in people i i keep saying it but i think it's it's an amazing trait to have but it can also be little dangerous. I think you have to say that. You hate to see people not be like that, though, because it's so refreshing when you see someone like that. But then it's horrible when they're taking advantage. At the time of his death, David was in the seventh grade. He dreamed of becoming a jet pilot when he grew up. He loved riding his bike around town and often biked over to his older brother, Joseph's house every morning. He loved visiting Joseph's children. What's cool? What did you want to do when you grew up? Do I ask you this before? When you were little, what did you want to be? I don't know. Over 10 years, you probably have, but I don't remember every conversation we've ever had.

Yeah. What did I want to be? I, you know, I don't remember, I wanted to be a professional baseball player. Did you? Yeah, because I loved baseball. I was actually really good at baseball when I was young. Yeah. And then. Tebow? No, I mean, I was still good in high school, but people had caught up and passed me. Yeah. You know how that kind of happens.

But when I was younger, I was kind of bigger than most kids. I could hit the ball out of the park and throw it very hard. But by the time I got into high school, people were as good, if not better. Okay. So that dream kind of crumbled? Crumbled very quickly. as it does for a lot of people. You're like, thanks for bringing it back up again.

Yeah, well, you know. Yeah. It's not much of a sore spot, to be honest with it. I mean, you were pretty good athlete all the way around it. Yeah, I played a lot of sports. Yeah. On August 21st, 1985, David was reported missing after failing to return from a bike ride. And his bike was soon found under a railroad bridge on Coldwell Street, about three

and a half blocks from his home. So again, we kind of talked about it at the beginning. If you're the family, this is, you know, one of those nightmare situations that no one wants to find themselves in. And it's also the 80s. So if, if you and I think back to when, you know, we were younger in the 80s, I, I'm about this kid's age or was. Yeah, you really were. In 1984. five, I was riding my bike all over town. What you did. My parents had no idea where I was most of the time. And, you know, that was not uncommon.

It's much more uncommon today. I think, at least my wife and I, we didn't let our kids do that. Yeah. I don't think as many people do. But you probably, like I did, you would go underneath those railroad bridges or other type of bridges. Hang out down there. Maybe if it was a career. you get in and mess with the crawled dads and things like that.

You're just being a kid, seeing what's what. And they're smoking your little cigarette that you took from your mom's purse. No, getting into whatever you could get into. Yeah. But, you know, when your child doesn't come home or your brother or whoever it is, it's just panic. That's the only thing I can think, right? Pure panic.

And then that panic increases, the longer. that the person is away. And of course, when they find the bike underneath the bridge, I mean, I think it would increase so much more. Yeah. And then you got to think about what's that four months like? Yeah. Right?

From that point until, you know, more is known. On December 15th, 1985, David's badly decomposed remains were found in a wooded area off Codwell Street in neighboring Cresona, Pennsylvania. about half a mile from where his bike was found. Not too far. No. I mean, half a mile is,

you know, easily walk it. A kid could walk that. I could walk it, but I don't want to. Yeah. It's like, what,

a seven to ten minute walk. But it does, it does make you, you know, kind of ponder the question, right? Why was the bike here? Yeah.

And his body, you know, about a half a mile. away from it. Was he snatched off the bike? Was he taken a half a mile away? Or did, for whatever reason, he get off the bike and he traveled himself and somebody caught up to him? That's the mystery. Yeah, these are all questions that have to be answered. Now, exactly how David's remains were found is unclear. According to the original autopsy report, a man searching the woods for a cat. found a skull and called police and then officers found additional remains. But sources also report

that additional remains were later found at a Crosona residence. The owner told police his dogs had been bringing bones to the house from the woods. And he didn't realize these were human until they came back with a skull. Oh, wow. So this is two very different stories. And that's why I say it's little unclear. And I can see that happening, right? You can see a dog bringing back, especially a kid's bone. It's not going to be big. So maybe you're thinking, not as big. Yeah, you're thinking it's another animal that, you know. Right. Now, a human skull, that's a pretty hard to miss. Right. You know, but some bones of the body, you know, you wouldn't naturally think. Now, if you saw maybe a big femur, that would, that would stand out to you probably. Dr. Richard Bendy,

performed David's autopsy, the day after his body was found. His report was issued February 15, 1986 and ruled David's cause and manner of death undetermined. Bindi couldn't determine a cause in manner of death because there was little soft tissue left. But he did note that the death was suspicious. His report also noted that there was no definite evidence of premortem trauma. Okay. Well, I mean, you're going to have a hard time because he said there's no soft tissue. Yeah. It's always tough. Yeah. You know, if you don't have some kind of marks on the bones that could possibly indicate a knife, obviously if you have a gunshot wound through the skull, you're going to know. That's going to be pretty easy. But outside of that, it becomes tougher. Yeah. Right? With no soft tissue. If someone gets strangled, you're not going to know. Yeah, unless, you know, they figure out that the hyoid bone maybe was broken.

Right. But over a period of time, the bones can get scattered. And look, we got dogs. Yeah, dogs. Right. Taking the bone. So it's going to be tough. No doubt about it.

And, you know, to say there's no definite evidence of premortem trauma, I think that might be easier to do had the remains been found sooner. Right. If you have more of the body intact. On January 21st, 1986, forensic anthropologist Alan Mann of the University of Pennsylvania examined David's remains. He concluded that David's bones and teeth, as well as family member statements that David lost weight before his death, indicated David may have died of complications.

from juvenile diabetes. I mean, I understand what he's trying to say. I just don't know if I would believe that. Well, to me, it's a little bit of going, to me, you're going out on a limb. It's a stretch. It's a stretch, right? Could it be?

Yeah. Is it the most likely thing? I don't know about that. On April 30th of that year, police announced they had closed the case for reporting purposes. with no solid leads. And if you're the family, that's heartbreaking. It is.

You know, I get it. If you don't have a lead, you don't have any evidence, where do you go? You're going to box it up for now and come back to it later if we get something that comes in. So David's family spent a lot of years waiting for answers. In 2005, retired state police corporal Roy Bettner took over the case. in December of 2005, state police said they had made progress in investigating David's death, and they asked the public for more help. Bettner said that as the 20th anniversary approach, a real big push had been made on this in recent months,

and we've made some real good progress. So 20 years has gone by. A long time. You know, this guy's retired. He picks it up, right? as a cold case. It's obviously cold. No doubt about that. He noted that the information didn't come from advanced forensic testing, but through interviews with people in the area. And it's 2005. They'd made some progress in DNA, nowhere near what we have today. Right. But that's not,

you know, where the information came from. It came from old-fashioned police work, which is knocking on doors, re-interviewing people that were probably talked to or maybe had their names in the police file. Speaking with the morning call, David's sister

Virginia Reed said, police initially dismissed David as a runaway and didn't pursue the case because her family was looked down upon. She said, I got the sense they really didn't care because, to put it bluntly, we weren't like a bunch of

troublemakers, but we weren't a model family. They kept telling me he was a runaway, but I knew my brother and knew he wasn't. Yeah. They told me to chalk it up to him running away. That's kind of a harsh thing to hear. It is. And, you know, to think that the police aren't taking a case seriously because, let's say maybe you're not the ideal family. Yeah. Or you're not in the upper middle to upper. socioeconomic bracket, that's tough. It is tough. The problem is that has happened.

A lot. And we know it's happened. Race, ethnicity, socioeconomic factors. It's hard to say that those have not played a factor. In some cases, getting worked and others not. You can't do it because we've seen the evidence. Just the facts. Yeah, the facts kind of bear it out.

I'm not saying in every case, but it has happened. But I kind of want to talk about a 12-year-old running away. Could it happen? Yeah, sure. Yeah. It could. Is a 12-year-old going to run away, though, and start a new life? Unlikely.

Very unlikely. We talk about people, you know, did some, did they meet with foul play? Or did they, you know, run away and, start a new life and they're fine. Just they haven't told anybody about it. It's just, it's going to be difficult, right? Unless you're near a big city, you know,

that's still not going to be. That presents a different problem. Yeah. I just think at 12 years old, I don't know what you have going for you that would allow you to live independently at all. Be like Oliver and join up a kid gang and do pickpocketing. Maybe.

And take it back to the other guy. your money and food. I just I you know me. I tend to kind of lean towards that not being the case. Yeah. Is it not? I mean, it's not the most likely outcome. So did you ever run away? No. No. No. But I know I can't remember exactly, but I, I'm sure I threatened it. You know, I did what all kids do. Yeah. Packed up a bag or, you know, whatever it was and acted like a, was going to go out the door and then I yelled back to my parents. I'm leaving. You're never going to see me again. I'm sure I did some of that. He went out to the edge of the driveway and looked back like, are they going to come from me or not? You're going to get me? Because I got nowhere to go.

I got a few more steps. And I just at that point, I'm lost. This is a total bluff. And I think, you know, you're calling it. Yeah. I'm going to have to give up. But what kid hasn't, you know, done at least some version of that? Absolutely. Virginia also explained the circumstances surrounding the discovery of David's remains and that it was the local dog owner who found the remains not the police. So there was some different reporting on that. She said her family heard nothing from investigators until Corporal Bettner called her at the beginning of the year and said he was looking into the case. Wow. She said if it wasn't for him, we wouldn't have anything.

All along, I didn't think they were doing anything until Trooper Bettner. That's 20 years. And that is, talk about lack of communication and effort. Wow, that's stunning. It really is. Virginia also said the renewed investigation was bittersweet because her mother and stepfather died without knowing what happened to David. David's mother, Joan, died in June of 2000.

That's rough. It is. I mean, Virginia is, I'm sure not on her own, but her core family is all gone. Yeah. And she at this point has spent 20 years wondering what happened to her brother, and the police weren't even talking to them. Which is ridiculous. It really is.

I mean, it's just, that's the truth. It's just ridiculous. Virginia added, I don't want to go. to my grave, not knowing what happened to him. And tragically, she passed away in 2007 before she ever got any concrete answers. That's just sad. It really is. In early June 2008, authorities asked a judge for permission to exhume David's remains. They hope to use modern forensics to determine if he died of foul play. Coroner David Dutkavich noted examinations in late, late 1985 and early 1986 were unfruitful in determining the young man's cause of death.

According to a January 2008 news report, Dr. Anthony Falsetti, a forensic anthropologist at the University of Florida, reviewed anthropologist Alan Mann's findings in 2006 at the request of state police and concluded there appears to be an overstating of the possible role. that diabetes played in this case. And we kind of talked about it. You called it going out on a limb or, no, I said that,

you called it a stretch. I think it's both, right? Now, was it plausible? Sure, in the sense that it could have been, but where was the evidence to really kind of back that up?

Yeah, he'd lost a little bit of weight, maybe, or something like that. But if you're so focused in on that, are you missing? out on maybe some other things that you should have or could have seen. Well, it also depends on how investigators are taking that information.

Well, that's true. Are they taking that and saying, well, this is, it's not foul play. Yeah. When there's no, there was no concrete evidence that that was the case. That was a theory. So it really does depend. And that's, it's why it's so, you know, kind of important what some of these experts say. but it's also important how authorities interpret or take what the experts say.

Which might have been the reason why they didn't really do anything for all that time because they felt like there's nothing to solve here. Yeah. We know what happened. Yeah, could have been. That month, Trooper Robert Bettner told the morning call that new information surfaced in 2005 and rekindled the investigation. He said, we made a lot of progress.

additional people have been cooperating and more information has come forward. So I think this probably came out of the interviews, right, that they were doing, which he talked about. But police wouldn't reveal anything about any evidence they had, which is not unusual, right, in an unsolved case. On January 9, 2008, a county judge granted the exhumation, according to the ruling, non-scientific. evidence uncovered in the much more in-depth investigation conducted by

trooper Bettner is compared to that previously performed by the police. After the 1985 disappearance of David Reed and the discovery of his remains, indicates foul play was involved in the death of the deceased. Okay. And again, if I'm weighing things, right, even in 1985, what's more likely that this 12-year-old was riding his bike, got off the bike, walked half a mile, and died because of diabetes. Yeah.

Or he met with some kind of foul play. I'm not saying one's not possible. Let's just weigh the odds. Yeah. If you had to look at those two, how are you going to... Well, let's just keep doing this because it's fun. Yeah. No, but yeah, I think we're on the same page.

right it's just you don't know for certain but I always like to kind of look at everything through the lens of what's more plausible than something else yeah makes sense it's logical yeah I think it does David's family welcome the renewed investigation and said the original investigation was inadequate and I think that's probably putting it a little mildly yeah Right. Inadequate means, well, they didn't do the best job. It sounds to me, Gibbs, like they just didn't really do much at all. I think they put that information from the corner and just stop.

I mean, if you're not communicating with the person's family for 20 years, how much are you really do in working the cake? Yeah, you're not. Probably not. David's brother, Joseph, told the AP that month, they just pushed it aside. That's a small town, and if you're not rich, they don't care. David's body was exhumed on January 24th, 2008, and sent for analysis by experts. The remains were examined by forensic anthropologist Dr. Anthony Falsetti. After Falsetti's examinations, the remains were examined at Princeton and the University

of Pennsylvania by anthropologist doctors Alan Mann and Janet Munt. So, you know, pretty prestigious institutions. Really are. Really are. Princeton. Penn. Okay. I mean, I give them an eight out of ten.

Yeah, I mean, not compared to some of the places you went, but for most people. Yeah. You know, I couldn't sniff Princeton academically. It's such a weird thing to say. Yeah. Couldn't even sniff it. Couldn't even sniff it. And I got good grades in high school, but you did.

You know. I wasn't a road scholar or whatever. But you did pay for a lot of your grades. Why would I pay for them? Because you did, you know. No, I just three o'clock hide people and. Well, that's true. Made them do my work for it.

I'm just kidding. I want to make myself out as a bully. On July 3rd, 2008, police announced that David's death had been reclassified as a homicide and they had identified a suspect. That quick. Two very big thing. Very huge. Coroner Joseph Lipset said the suspect was still alive,

but the motive remained unclear. Investigators wouldn't release David's specific cause of death until an arrest was made. And I completely understand that, right? If you've got a suspect in mind, that means you're going to want to talk to that person. You don't want to let a bunch of information out to the media. You want to talk to this person and see. if what they're telling you matches up.

Critical, really. Yeah, because you wanted to be stuff that only the killer could know. And if it's in the news, well, then anybody could know. That's true. Authorities did say that witnesses were being interviewed and pieces of evidence were undergoing forensic analysis.

On August 21st, 2008, authorities arrested 43-year-old Joseph Geiger at his residence in Potts. Pennsylvania, Geiger was charged with third degree murder, voluntary manslaughter, abuse of a corpse, and tampering with evidence. Police didn't immediately say what led them to him, but they said he was 20 years old at the time of David's disappearance. Geiger told reporters at the time, I didn't do it. Of course. Wasn't me. Well, what are you going to say? When reporters show up to your door, they call you on the phone because you know they're going to.

Absolutely. Once your name gets out there, yeah, I did it. They finally caught me. It does happen. Sometimes people just give up, but most people don't, right? They fight for a while at least. Especially if you're only 43 years old. You're thinking, I got a lot of time to live still.

Wow. You get, yeah, you get life. Well, when we were 20 and we probably have 20-year-olds watching or listening, 43 was old, man. you're you were old yeah but now to us 40 year olds are like man you're just getting in the prime right so to spend the rest of your life in prison which could be with medicine the way it is today long time 40 50 years yeah you could spend over half of your life in prison that's a rough rough way to go to live in a little uh five by five box or whatever size they are yeah but well

deserved. I mean, obviously, we're getting ready to get into it. Of course. This was a vicious murder. Detectives ultimately determined that Joe Geiger met up with David Reed and 14-year-old John Fry on that August day in 1985 to drink alcohol and smoke marijuana on an abandoned train caboose located in an old railroad yard. Geiger confronted David and accused him of stealing. some of the marijuana plans.

He'd been illegally growing in an area of the woods lining the Schuylkill River. Growing some marijuana plans. Yeah. I mean, you know, and I was never that kid. Yeah. You know, at 15, 16 smoking. I had a lot of friends who did. Sure.

I just never liked it. Even through college and not that I didn't try it, I just, I didn't care for it. This wasn't your thing. Nope. and now that it's legal, still not my thing. But, you know, when you're, you know, this kid's 20. Yeah. And he's hanging out with 12-year-olds and 14-year-olds.

Problem there. That's very strange. Yeah. And obviously there's alcohol involved. There's marijuana involved. I mean, first of all, he's contributing to the delinquency of a minor. Just by being there and smoking with them. and I don't know if he provided it or not, but,

and then you have this issue of him thinking that David was stealing some of his marijuana plants and, and all of that. Investigators learned that David wasn't the only person stealing plants from Geiger, but Geiger had vowed to friends. He would kill the thief once he found them. So he vowed it. So I guess he felt he's going to follow through on that. Well, it sounds to me like this wasn't a well-kept secret of these marijuana plants and maybe people were just going and, you know, helping themselves to some of the plants. When Geiger hit David in the face, he fell backwards and hit his head against a metal wall in the caboose, fracturing his skull.

There you go. It's all it takes. It can, it can, right? people don't realize it, I think, all the time, but the damage that you can do with one punch, especially, you think about a 20-year-old fighting a 12-year-old. Yeah.

That's horrible. It really is. And, you know, sometimes people get punched, they get knocked out, and they're fine. Yeah. But you can easily hit your head on something and die. And it's over. It's kind of like that Nicholas Cage movie,

where you had a long hair. Conair? Conair. How he ended up in prison in the first place. The Republican and Herald newspaper published a timeline of the investigation leading to the arrest. Back on April 21st, 2005, police spoke to Lori Reed, the wife of David's older brother, Joseph. She told investigators there was rampant drug use in the Reed residents at the time, and she witnessed David smoking marijuana.

So I don't know if this goes back to Virginia's comments to the paper, right? We weren't looked at as the model family. Yeah. Is this a part of it? Maybe it was. I mean, I knew a few families like that, you know,

that you knew they were all, you know, hitting the bong after school, even kids, you know. And maybe into some other stuff. Maybe, yeah.

On May 3rd, 2005, police spoke to Susan Argood. Argood partied with Geiger at the railroad tracks after David was killed, but before he was found, she saw him sitting on the tracks by himself crying. Geiger reportedly said to her, I didn't mean to hurt him. On June 26, 2005, Geiger contacted the police and agreed to come in for an interview. The interview occurred on June 29, and during it, he told investigators that he didn't know David personally. But police confronted him with inconsistencies in his story.

And then Geiger changed his account. Yeah. Police interviewed John Frye on July 18th, who was with David and Geiger on August 21st. Fry said he knew nothing. But I think Gibbs, you know, right off the bat, not looking great for Geiger. It never does when, you know, you're. confronted with inconsistencies, you change your story, it's never a good sign. Pat Wade, a man who Geiger said was at the scene that night, agreed to wear a wire and confronted Geiger

on August 5th, 2005. He asked Geiger, why don't you tell them the truth? Geiger replied, The police don't want to hear the truth, which seems like a strange statement. Yeah, I mean, of course they want to hear the truth. Can they handle the truth? You can't handle the truth? You can't handle the truth. In October 2005, police interviewed Geiger again. This time, he claimed John Frye was the one who killed David. So it's a pattern, right, that we see with a lot of killers. And this is not a serial killer. This is a 20-year-old guy who, by his account, hit a kid, the kid fell down, he died. But this is, this is a pattern, right? You lie. You change your story. And then, you know, you try to blame somebody else. You're just digging that whole deeper. Yeah. From October 2005 to

January 2008, police continued interviews. And that's a long time. It is a long time. That's like two and a half years. In March 2007, they spoke to Christopher Major, who claimed Joseph Geiger told him, if you ever want to murder somebody, do it in Skookle County because you can get away with it. Okay. That's not what you want out there. No, but, you know, if he's a killer, then, yeah, obviously he had gotten away with it for that long. Christopher claimed he and Geiger were doing cocaine at a party several years prior when he made that statement. On January 28, 2008, police interviewed John Fry again.

Fry admitted to line. He claimed the night David went missing, he saw David and Geiger arguing. And Geiger punched David in the face, knocking David's head into the metal wall of a railroad car. According to Fry's January 28th statement, he was with Geiger and David when they walked to the railroad tracks

to smoke marijuana inside a train caboose. Geiger accused David of stealing his marijuana plants he saw Geiger punch David in the face knocking his head back into the metal wall of a rail car leading to his death. So I'm not, is it that much different? It really doesn't seem like it. According to the criminal complaint, other statements suggested John Fry was also involved in the plant theft. And maybe that's where the discrepancy, you know, really comes. I find it interesting.

You know, like he lied the first time. but probably because maybe he got wind of the fact that he's being accused of being the murderer now. Maybe he's like, hey, maybe I better go ahead and tell the truth this time. Yeah. I mean, maybe you should tell the truth the first time, especially if you weren't the one who killed the person. I don't know why you would lie unless you're scared of that person. Unless you're such a good friend, you guys made a pack like, hey, if anyone ever comes, we never turn on each of. other. I guess. The complaint noted Geiger's conflicting accounts in his interviews. At first,

he said he had only seen David once or twice around town, but he ultimately admitted to helping drag David's body into the woods after David got into a fight with John Fras. Geiger attributed discrepancies in his stories to the passage of time, which can happen. I mean... Now, we're talking two, three years here. It's not between his first interview and this point in time. But obviously, he is putting this murder on John Fry. Sure he is. And he's saying at first, I didn't really know David.

I'd seen him around to now. Oh, yeah, I helped drag his body into the woods. Yeah. But I am not the one who killed him. I didn't do that part. However, statements from others, including John Fry, cemented the case against Geiger. Police also said David was exposed to drugs through Joseph Geiger

and his brother James Reed, who admitted to using and selling marijuana at the time of David's death. It's got to be tough for that. Yeah. For him. Sure. As a brother, thinking that in some way,

you may have contributed to your brother's death. Yeah. But you weren't the one that threw that punch. Yeah, I get that. But is that going to stop you from having the guilt? No, no, probably not. The complaint noted that Joseph Geiger's dogs picked apart David's remains and carried pieces back to his house. Oh, okay.

So. Yeah, bizarre. Were they out there? Did they find the remains because of Joseph's scent? Right. And then obviously they're going to know the way home. Is that how it happened? Kind of sounds like it.

Geiger led police to David's body. He said for months, his dogs had been returning home from the woods, carrying bones. But he thought nothing of it until they came back with the skull. Right. Now, we talked about this early on. We did. That this is how the body was found. But it was because of this that both investigators and David's,

family didn't consider Joseph Geiger a suspect. No. Because why is he going to call the police and tell them about this body? I mean, kind of a good plan. It could, it could have been. Yeah. And, and obviously it did work for what decades. Sure did. If you think about it that way. During the time David was missing, Joe Geiger joined the search parties. He also appeared on the news, to discuss the case and how his dogs found the remains. Yeah, well, there's a problem there, right? You know, he wants to be in the limelight a little bit. Does he or is he trying to blend in? Well, that's a good point. Because we do know some killers will join the search parties and all that because they want to revel in being that close to it or they want to kind of have a good

understanding of what the police know, this might be a little different. This might be a guy who is just trying to blend in and not seem strange. I don't know. It could be someone also trying to control the search, you know. Could be. Right? I make sure they don't go over there, so I'll go over there. I like I've already searched it. Prosecutors later said that Geiger used to visit David's gravesite and even got a job at the cemetery where he was buried, which indicated some level of love remorse. I'm sure he felt terrible for what he did because I don't think he wasn't, you know, I mean, he hit. I'm not thinking he was going to kill him with one head. That is kind of the way it seems, right? That even though he did say, I'm going to kill

whoever stealing my marijuana plants, it doesn't seem like he set out to kill David Reed. if you believe this this girl who said he was crying you know on the the road road tracks there does appear to be some level of remorse there right um which is you know let's face it uh not something we encounter a lot no right in our cases david's brother joseph told six ABC after the arrest the feeling is hard to describe after all these years I never thought it would come down to this. You give up hope. And I always,

I always think that, right? Now, not everybody gives up hope, but at a certain point, do some people in the family think, it's just not going to happen. And I think that would be pretty natural for some people. Yeah.

It doesn't mean they don't care. It doesn't mean they're still not trying or wishing, but in the back of your mind, is there that voice that is saying, we're never going to find this out? out. It's been too long. I'm sure it's whispering. Yeah. I would think that would happen quite a bit.

Joseph said he was barely acquainted with Geiger, but he was considered pretty normal. That's the word he used. In the months after David went missing, Geiger would say hi. Like nothing happened. I wish I knew back then what I know today. Who can't say that? Yeah, because he would have done something to this guy, I'm sure. Yeah. On October 14, 2008. Geiger was ordered to stand trial after his preliminary hearing. John Fry testified about the altercation between Geiger and David at the hearing.

According to the Republican and Harold, he said, Joe starts talking about David stealing, his pot plans. He said, no, he didn't. Geiger kept saying he's a liar. He got up, came over to us, and gave him a punch. Upside the head, he got it in his face. The next thing you know, he whacked him. Fry left the caboose and went home after Geiger told him to do so.

Under cross-examination, Fry admitted they were all smoking and drinking and that he didn't talk to anyone about that night. He testified, I didn't know he had died. Witness Christopher Major testified that Geiger told him, yes, I did. Kill someone and added, you know who? Major asked, was it the little Reed boy? According to Major, he shook his head, yes. I kept it to myself until I was questioned about it.

Okay. That's 20 plus year. It's a long time. It's a big secret. It is. You know, how much blame do you put on this guy? I don't know. It's tough.

Yeah. It's tough. Corporal Robert Robert Bettner testified that Geiger gave conflicting statements. But he eventually said John Frye killed David in an argument over the marijuana plants. And he claimed Fry owned the plant. Geiger reportedly said, John cried after we came back and saw that David was dead. So he really was trying to shift the blame to John Fry. Yeah.

I think the problem is there was a lot of people who knew that he owned these marijuana plans. Exactly. So to try to say that John own them, because John would have to own them to be upset with David for stealing them. And I think it was pretty evident based on other people. testifying that, no, John didn't own him. Geiger did. And he was very vocal, too, about someone's taking my plants. I'm going to do something about it.

And when I find him, I'm going to kill him. He actually used that phrase. So if you say something like that, you know, it will be used against you. Absolutely. At the hearing, the coroner testified that David's death was a homicide caused by blunt force trauma to the head. In 2009, ADA A.J. Serena argued David might have survived. Had Geiger sought help immediately.

Maybe it's possible, right? Nobody knows because nobody did anything. Yeah, they just left. They just left him there and then came back and got his body and moved it later. According to the police, David was still breathing. When Geiger ordered John Fry to go home, Geiger dragged David's body, a few of them. hundred yards into the woods and concealed him with branches and brush. Officials have not determined

how long it took for David to die. I can't even imagine what that would be like laying there. And for the family to find this out. What's left of the family? Because by this point, a lot of the family members have passed away. Pretty much all gone. But to find this out, right, that not only was he killed, suffered. But he suffered. But he suffered. for maybe a long period of time before he actually died. And he could have been saved, most likely. All of that is very tough to take. Dr. Anthony Falsetti, the forensic anthropologist,

who conducted the second forensic examination of David's remains in 2008, told A&E that justice was probably delayed because of the initial diabetes determination. Yeah, certainly didn't help, right? Because it allowed investigators to be more focused on that or not focused on what they should have focused on because they thought, well, it's salt. Did you just bark like a dog? Because that or came out like a little growl bark bang. My wolf?

My wolf? Your wolf. Yeah, I think it allowed them to more easily kind of wrap things up and push it to the side. Yeah. Right? Then, you know, this is not foul play. The, the, you know, the professional was saying it could have been diabetes related. Yeah. So we'll just wrap it up and move on. How hard are you going to work towards trying to find a different answer why you got everything else going on? Yeah. Folletti said, he said, I didn't understand how anyone could take that route. I'm just completely baffled by that diagnosis. And I think that's what really clouded this case, more than anything else. And we talked about it, right? We were kind of baffled. Sure we were. Was it possible? Yeah, as far as a bunch of different things are possible, but was it more likely than 10, 15, 20 other things? I don't know that it was. Maybe because it was just a small town.

They went, they were going with it because it's maybe. They didn't have a lot of experience in that stuff. Falsetti claimed most medical examiners aren't sufficiently trained to diagnose injuries to the hard tissues of the body. He said, in some defense of the first medical examiner, that's just not what they do. And that's not their specialty. A forensic anthropologist does have that specialty and more experience looking at bone, which is why every medical examiner should have a forensic anthropologist on step. So it's interesting, right? He's trying to cut the medical examiner a little bit of slack. Sure he is. Because he wouldn't have had that type of training. Falsetti noted, it would be impossible to know whether David might have survived the

skull fractures if he received immediate medical attention. He explained, it would depend on what kind of subdural hematoma. It was, and I can't tell that from bone. The survivability of such injuries really varies. On February 26, 2009, Joseph Geiger pleaded guilty to involuntary manslaughter, simple assault, evidence tampering, and abuse of a corpse. He was sentenced to one to two years in prison with three years probation. And a lot of people are going to be like, ooh, that is super light. Yeah. And it is.

It really is. It is. But we're also talking about involuntary manslaughter. Yeah. Which is a far cry from first or even second degree murder. I think, you know, what would he have received back then if he would have just came forward, made the attempt to try to save his life? Yeah. And he passed.

What would he have gotten? And then wherever that was, you know, he has to at least do that, I think. But I'm more upset about the fact, I mean, I'm not more upset. I'm also upset the fact that he chose to not say anything and allow the parents to never know what happened. to their child. They died without knowing. Yeah. Prosecutors don't believe Geiger intended to kill David, but if he had sought help immediately, David might have lived. ADA A.J. Serena also said a third degree murder conviction would have been difficult because Geiger didn't throw multiple punches, didn't kick David,

or use a weapon other than his fist. So I said it's not first degree. It's not first degree. not even second degree. It's not even third degree. Yeah. So we are really down on the list when it comes to involuntary manslaughter. We're kind of lucky to get them for whatever time you get. Well, David's family accepted the plea deal because they didn't want to risk an acquittal. And I get that. Sure. Right. Yes, he's only going to do one, you know, maybe less than a year in prison. Right. He's going to have three years probation. But could a judge, jury have looked at this and said, you know, this was an accident. He didn't mean to kill him. He did die. You know, they could have been conflicted. I don't know. At least you get some form of

accountability. Yes. There's, there's justice. I don't know to what level. Yeah. Right. But the family must have thought this is the best route to go. The judge told Geiger at sentencing, you may not have meant to kill him, but you hit him. Obviously, you should have faced up to the situation back when it occurred. And it's just a shame. The young life was lost, apparently because of a fight over illegal drugs. David's family was disappointed. Geiger wouldn't spend more time in prison. His cousin, Pam Chappelle, said, is quoted by the Republican and Harold, we're not really okay with it. At least he didn't get away with it, he had to admit he did it. So I'm sure they had to be, or had to have been conflicted, right? Do we go with this plea deal knowing that he's not going to spend very much

time in prison? But if we don't go with it, there's a chance he does no time. Right. And he's not found guilty. And that's probably the even scarier part. Yeah, at least you get him to be guilty. He'll do some time. Yeah. And it'll be on his record. Be on his record. And you get some form of closure, right? Or justice or whatever you want to call it. Geiger didn't make a statement at sentencing. David's family reinterred his remains on July 2nd, 2009. His cousin, Rhonda Sheriff, said, it's almost 24 years to get him to finally rest in peace. I was there for the first funeral. and now we finally have the answers to everything. Now he can finally rest in peace.

Tough, right? For the family, no doubt about it. Joseph Geiger is no longer in prison. Retired state police corporal Robert Bettner told A&E this year, this was a manslaughter case. And in 1985, that's what the punishment was. There you go. Two years, according to Bettner, was actually higher than the standard range of sentencing

for that charge. And aside from a DUI, Geiger didn't have a significant criminal history. And, you know, that's, I don't know how I feel about that. You know, he was 20 years old. It was 1985. Now, he wasn't caught until, what, 2008 or 2005, he started to get questioned. But it wasn't until like 2008 when he was convicted. They have to go off of the sentencing of when the crime.

occur. Yeah. I get it. I understand why they do it, but I don't know what it would be today in voluntary manslaughter. I'm assuming it could be higher. Could be. Probably is. Or that a judge could have more leeway sometimes.

Yeah, I wish that he would have to pay, you know, do a little bit more time for the agony that he put the family through. Yeah. You figure he did less than a year, most likely. He's got three years probation. but he probably won't violate it. He hasn't been outside of that DUI. He obviously wasn't doing criminal things over the 20-year period.

Now, it doesn't make what he did okay. No. But he's also not Hannibal Lecter. No. So you do have to weigh those things. Could he be a productive member of society? Yeah, he probably can. but I'm still upset that he didn't have to pay a little bit more for what he did.

It doesn't seem like justice for David Reed or his family. That, you know, he's taken away at such a young age, but this guy does less than a year in prison, and then he's out, for he to live the rest of his life. Now, he will have this hanging over his head. He will, but... It'll be on his record. I just think, you know, that type of sentencing, it's going to sting, the family.

Right things. It's like, really? Yeah. I don't. But they agreed to it. Yeah, but they have good reasons why. Yeah, because they didn't want to take the chance that he would be acquitted. Yeah.

But that's it for our episode on David Reed and another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.