True Crime All The Time - David Vander Meer

Episode Date: July 23, 2026

In 2006, Bernadette Vander Meer suffered a fatal fall from Angels Landing in Utah's Zion National Park. It was ruled an accident, but some remained suspicious. It would take nearly two decades for the investigators to learn the truth.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss David Vander Meer. Nearly two decades later, investigators uncovered evidence suggesting David Vander Meer had been living a double life that may have provided both motive and opportunity for murder. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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King of Kashmir. See Brunello, the gracious visionary in Select Theaters July 24th. Hello everyone and welcome to episode 517 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how are you? Doing good, man. Sort of. How are you? I'm doing good. Yeah, you're fighting a kidney stone, which I've had a number of them, man. They are not fun at all. Yeah, yeah. You gave some encouraging words to the other day in a text message? I did. I'm like, I said, I hope they do what they did to me that one time, which was not a nice thing to say, but, you know, what are you going to do? Yeah. All right, buddy.

You ready to get into this Thursday episode of, uh, true crime all the time? I'm ready. We're talking about David Vandermere. On August 22nd, 2006, 29 year old Bernadette Van Damir felt her her death at the top of Angels Landing in Zion National Park. Her death was ruled an accident at the time. And it took him nearly 20 years. to solve her murder. Bernadette was born in Phoenix on November 16th, 1977. She grew up in Las Vegas.

Bernadette was described as a vibrant young performer rooted in her faith, engaged in her community, according to CNN. I wonder what it's like to grow up in Las Vegas. I don't know. Because you and I have been there like for weekends. Yeah.

We've been there. I've been there twice for CrimeCon. It is a spectacle, man. And I'll get it. You're not going to live on the strip. Right. So you're not going to be in that all the time. But it's also extremely hot.

It is. Like dry and very, very hot. One time where we were out there and you morph, we went up rooftop and then you guys left me up there and I couldn't get off the rooftop. Yeah, we couldn't find you. We didn't know where you were. We got so drunk the night before. It was crazy.

It was. Yeah. Good time. And we ran into Mike Tyson. It was a whole thing. Talk about some tiger or something, I don't know. Bernadette's father, Richard Gudenkov, recalled how Bernad could captivate a room with their energy when she performed a hush fell over the audience.

I mean, that's really saying something. There are people that are extremely captivating. Yeah. I mean, they don't even have to say anything. The way they walk into a room, you know, there's just something about them that people are drawn to, right? You? Like a Saturday night. Yep.

At the, like Saturday Night Fever. You know, you've got the chest hair. You've got the long medallion, the white suit. I walk in, you know,

all four or five people there are just like, they're captivating. They are. They're like, oh, he really showed up. But now she's a performer. So on top of that,

if you're a really good performer, man, you can captivate an audience. It's true. Pretty quickly. Bernadette performed in character as Betty Boot at the MGM, theme park in Vegas. She also recorded covers of artists like Aretha Franklin,

Christina Aguilera, and Patty LaBelle. And those are some big voices. Yeah. You know, there are songs that are easy to sing. Right. And then there are some performer songs that are extremely hard to cover. Uh, yeah, Christina, Patty, Aretha, you're right. I mean, they, they got pipes. Yeah. Or they had pipes. for some of them who are no longer with us, not some of the easiest songs to cover? No. I mean,

you're taking a risk when you cover somebody that sings that well. Well, and you see it on those shows like The Voice or America's Got Talent. What was the big one on Fox? American Idol. American Idol. They always, especially Simon, right?

Whenever somebody says they're going to cover like, the Whitney Houston. Yeah. Or something. They're like, oh, this is going to be awful. And then somebody comes out and just nails it. Yeah. And it's unbelievable.

It'll give you chills. It will. Because those are some of the hardest songs to sing. In the early 90s, Bernad attended Meadows Christian Fellowship in Vegas, where she was recognized as a talented singer. It was around this time she met David Vandervere, Vandermere. Yes.

I want to say Vanderbier. because I'm used to hearing that, but this is Vandermere. You used to watch that show that Vandermere was in. Vandermere Rules or what is that show? Was it in One Tree Hill or something like that? Oh, I don't know. I didn't watch that stuff. You used to have the poster on the wall.

No, I never watched that stuff. Along with your vampire diaries poster and your... Buffy the Vampires Slayer and that stuff. But David Vandamere was a youth pastor. They participated in a theater production for church, according to the Las Vegas Review Journal. David played guitar alongside Bernadette in church and at other get-togethers. And you know, you talk about how like people meet someone.

Yeah. Well, this is how you meet people. It'd be kind of cool. Whether it's at work, I met my wife at work, or at church or, you know, if you're in a production, you're with somebody all the time, you get to know them. Okay, the next thing you know, a romance could blossom. It's kind of how things happen. I love when I pick my guitar up and just start, you know, strumbling with it.

Did you say strumbling? That's what I do with it. Because I think that is a pretty good description of what you would do with a car, with a guitar. It would be called strumbling. Yeah. And then somebody just jumps in and starts singing, you know, and you just like. But how are they when the guitar is making no sense whatsoever?

Oh, it's like music to their ears. It's spot on. Bernard's father Richard told CNN that from the beginning, he had a bad feeling about David. Now, you have a grown daughter. I have two grown daughters. Yeah. Did you ever get a bad feeling about somebody that your daughter was dating?

Yeah. Yeah. It happens. It does. More than not, I would say it turns out to be correct. You know, we talk about, mother's intuition, well, you know, dads have it too, especially when it comes to guys. They do.

Because we know what 17, 18, 19 year old guys are thinking, how they should act, how they shouldn't act, because we, you know, we were that age. I dated a few girls back in the day, you know, when I was in high school, right out of high school. Probably at the same time. Some of their dads are like, didn't have a good feeling, you know. Oh, and I'm sure they had a good reason. to feel that way. They were very open about telling me. They didn't have a good feeling about it. And they had the shotgun out every time you came over to pick their daughter up. Pretty much. Yeah, I mean, but here's the thing, right? What are you going to tell your daughter?

I don't like this guy. What's that going to do? This is going to drive them closer to that person. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's not going to probably do much to most teenage girls. It just isn't. than it's not going to do what you want it to do. No, very rarely does it work that way. Yeah. If anything, like you said, it's going to drive them more towards this guy who you have a bad feeling about. Bernadette and David got married in September 1996 when Bernadette was 18 years old.

They remained in Las Vegas. Bernadette worked at the New York, New York hotel and casino and continued pursuing her dream. And, you know, a lot of people go to Hollywood, they go to New York. You know, Vegas probably is not a bad place either. I mean, there are a lot of shows in Vegas. Sure. I would think there are town scouts that, you know, hit up those places looking for different singers and things like that.

I mean, when we were out there just recently, I couldn't believe the star power that were performing at all these different hotels. Oh, yeah. Big names. Yeah. Well, just at the hotel, we were still. hang at, right? Jerry Seinfeld was there. Yeah, he was there. Barry Manilow, who, you know, you can say what you want about Barry Manilow. He is a big star. He is a big star. He's probably should hang it up. I mean, I don't know. As long as he's got his oxygen tank. Yeah. I mean,

he's good. He actually had to cancel his shows while we were there. Yeah. Because of health issues. I, and, and to me, you know, he's got more money than he can ever spend. Yeah. So it's not about money can't be he just probably doesn't want to give up that feeling of being on stage and being adored and it's hard to let go of that i'm sure that's very addictive i think your uh your favorite singer brittney spares is there yeah so my favorite singer from the late 90s to the early 2000s david was a youth pastor at legacy vineyard church he left in 2002 to start a new church called new song where he continued working as a youth pastor. By 2006, Bernadette's parents were separated and her mother, Laura, and her sister Vanessa, who has special needs, moved in with

Bernadette and David. All right, that can be tough. Yeah, I think so. You know, that could be tough at any age, but I think especially when you're young and the marriage is not that old, having your mom and your sister who has special needs move in. I could put a damper on the newlywed type relationship for sure. Definitely going to be trying. Yeah, I would think so. Laura noticed that teens from David's youth group were often hanging out at the house. Bernadette was aware of this and she noticed that one girl seemed particularly close to David

and called the house often because she was underage at the time. sources have only identified this girl by her initials, S-H. All right. And that doesn't sound like it's a good thing. Well, I mean, you know, being a youth pastor, by definition, you are going to be around younger people. Right. I mean, you're a youth pastor. Sure.

Now, where do you draw the line? Should you have them over at your house? Should they be calling you all the time? should underage girls be calling you? You know, obviously, if you're Bernadette, you could view some of that stuff as, I don't know if you should do that. A little, in the gray?

Definitely in the gray, maybe even past the gray. Yeah, past the gray. But it was said that Bernadette became lonely and dissatisfied with the marriage in private letters. She wrote that David wouldn't publicly express his love to her and treated her like she was. was nothing special. That's what she wrote.

She told her mother that he paid more attention to the teens and his youth group than he did to her. That's really sad, you know, either because he was doing that professionally or not professionally. Yeah. Either way, I mean, here's his wife over here feeling neglected, you know. And she wouldn't be the first one, right? No.

She wouldn't be the first wife to feel neglected. You know, sometimes it's because you got a guy who's all about work. and works 60 hours a week and that's really all he cares about. And it can go the other way too, right? Women can get into their work that way. Absolutely. But let's face it, people can also get into extramarital affairs that they shouldn't and that can be the cause of it.

You know, here it seems like maybe it's a little, it could be a little bit about it. It could be, you know, that we're going to find out. And I also think sometimes, you know, the person that you met, that you of marrying once you get married, the real person comes out. Well, there is no doubt that people change. Yeah. They change over the course of a long marriage. My wife and I have changed incredibly over 30 plus years, but also we changed from the time before

we got married to after we got married. I used to get a lot of back rubs. That goes away. Does. The back rubs, you're not getting those as much after you get married. Yep. You know, the rumpus room time, you know, often goes down a little bit. Let's just be honest about it.

You know, it's not as often as maybe as it was in the beginning. I hope she listens to this. She will listen to this. And you know what? She would say, you're damn right. Yes. It went down. I was busy.

We had kids. This is what she always says. Yeah, right. Yeah. I was doing everything. You were working late. That's funny. It's just, I mean, things change.

It does change. People do change. You're right. And you have to learn to adapt and, you know, move with that change. Yep. Accept that change, you know, that way you can continue to love that person. But sometimes people also fake who they are to impress somebody to be in a relationship with them. To actually get married.

Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point. And then they're like, oh, now we're married. I got you. I can do it. I can do. Yeah. I can be whoever I want to be now.

Laura recalled one incident where Bernadette came home from a late waitressing shift and gave all her tips to David. She then slammed the bedroom door behind her. So, you know, it's one thing to be having trouble with your marriage, but now you've got your mom and sister who are living with you full time. Yeah. Well, they're going to see a lot of it. You can't really hide that from them now.

Yeah, it's going to be, it's going to be tough. At one point, Bernadette asked David for a divorce, but he told her to consider the optics. Oh. And I feel like that's such a strange argument to make. Yeah. You know, you could say, you know, I love you so much. You know, I'll do better. Tell me what I can do to make this work.

But saying, consider the optics. to me, that's like, well, I don't really care about the marriage. I only care what it would look like to others if you leave me. Yeah, this won't be good for me in the church, so I can't allow this to happen. Yeah, that seems like such a strength. You're not reassuring your partner, if anything, to me, that's just reinforcing what they probably already think. I mean, you're almost saying, I'm okay, being unhappy.

We just got to stay together because it's good for my career. Yeah, it's going to look bad. Let me ask you a question. What are you looking for in a bank? Are you looking for a stuffy bank that is set in the past, doing things the way things have always been done? What if you could get banking the way you wanted it? That's where Chime comes in.

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For more information, go to chime.com slash disclosures. As their 10th anniversary approached, David and Bernadette planned a trip to Zion National Park in Utah, Bernadette and experienced hiker was looking forward to the trip. Man, Utah has got a bounty of national parks. They do. You know, we've got some good listeners, right? Yeah. Out of the Utah area.

And one of them sent me a big box of national park stuff and coins and maps. And that place is just full of them. It's a, be a cool place to go for a nice long week. It would. Yeah. And you probably need a whole week. At least a week. And you wouldn't even be able to see everything, but you'd need a week to see a lot of it.

Yeah. Before she left, she discussed her and David's life insurance policies with her mother. They had recently increased their policies from $150,000 to $600,000 each. That's a big increase. It is. David told Bernadette that the money would help support Laura and Vanessa, if anything ever happened to them. And he's not wrong about that, right? It's not an incorrect statement.

Right. If both of them are killed, that's like $1.2 million that I'm assuming would go to to Laura and then she would use it to help take care of Vanessa. But, you know, $150,000 to $600,000. Like you said, is a pretty big jump. It is a huge jump. Now, we just said she was waitressing. Yeah.

So I don't know how much money she's making. I don't know how much money he's making. But I'm always interested when we talk about life insurance policies to look at, you know, how much is somebody earning versus how much are they taking out in insurance? Because, you know, if you're making $30,000 a year and you have a million dollar insurance policy, to me, that's a red flag. Something is strange. Yeah, for sure. I mean, normally what they used to say, what, five times your year earnings? You're trying to replace your income for X amount of years, not for 40 years or whatever it is.

So you retire? Yeah, until you retire. When explaining her decision, Bernadette set down to computer to pull up a document to show her mom. She was unable to log into the computer and told her mom, David changed the password. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, that could be. innocent, it could not be.

Is it because they made this change and now he doesn't want her to be able to go in and change it again or do anything with it? See who the real benefactors are? Yeah. We don't know. On the morning of August 22nd, 2006, David and Bernadette went hiking at the Angels Landing Trail in Zion National Park. Angels Landing is one of the park's most popular and dangerous hikes.

And you know how I feel about hiking. You don't like it. It's not on my bucket list. I've been hiking. Yeah. It's nothing wrong with it. Yeah. But, you know, right now I've got a bad hip.

So definitely hiking is out. It's off the list. It's off the list. I'm also probably not looking for the most dangerous hiking spot I can find. Let's figure if you're going to do it, just do the dangerous one and be done. Well, I'm actually even surprised that they are catathing. categorizing these hikes in like in order of danger yeah is it like the like skiing you've got the bunny and then you got like the k-9 or whatever it's called the black diamond the black diamond the hill of death

yeah the k-9 would be like a tough uh mountain to go up oh is that a mountain thing yeah i have no idea yeah that shows you my real lack of experience with anything uh having to do with skiing climbing I stopped at, it's not in my bag. K7.5 is why I stopped. K7.5. Sounds like a radio station. So they set out early at 4.20 a.m. They had to use headlamps because it was still dark. Around 6.20 a.m. They approached the top of Angels Landing, which is one of the most strenuous parts of the trail. The sun started to rise at that point, and they removed their headlamps, according to David. David set up his campaign. camera to take a picture of Bernadette's silhouette against the sunrise she was standing close to the edge of a 1200 foot cliff well that's high up there yeah I would not be standing anywhere near the edge of a 1200 foot clip you would not I wouldn't even be on the path up to a 1200 foot cliff you wouldn't make it up a

I would but I mean you know if you're into hiking this sounds like like an idealic situation Absolutely. Sounds wonderful. You know, you got the sunrise. So he took a few photos of the scenery and then he waited a few seconds for each to expose. He saw their backpacks in frame. So he picked them up and walked five to 10 feet away. Then he heard a screen. By the time he turned around, Bernadette was gone. Wow. She had fallen to her death. That would be very disturbing. Yeah. If your wife and you're on this great hike that apparently both of you enjoy, an activity you both enjoy, and she falls off a cliff and dies, I can't imagine how horrible that would be for someone. And she's an expert climber too, or expert hiker. Yeah. I'm sure that's going to come into play, right? That fact. David called 911 at 6.20 a.m. and reported the fall, search and rescue crews found Bernadette's body around 4 p.m. that afternoon.

That's quite a time difference. It is. I can't imagine it's easy, you know, you got along, you know, all that equipment up the top. They had to get out there. I'm sure that that took a while. And then they had to search for the body. Repel down, search and all that, and then recover the body. Yeah.

I just find it would be really how shocking to find the body when you do from that type of fall. I don't think it's just laying there like this. It's going to be. Yeah. That type of fall is going to be a very nasty scene. Yeah. There's no doubt about it. David recounted his story of what happened to investigators.

He was asked if he was ever unfaithful to Bernadette and he said he wasn't. There were no other witnesses to interview right there out on this hiking trail by themselves. Bernadette's death was ruled an accident and the case was closed. She was the fifth person to die on the Angels landing trip since 1983, according to news reports. And I feel like there would be kind of a tough investigation. It would be, right? I mean, no witnesses, no surveillance cameras, no, nothing. There's two people out there.

One of them apparently falls off the edge of a cliff. And what type of evidence are you going to have to refute that? Yeah. or to say it happened any other way. Many people wanted to attend Bernadette's funeral. So a special overflow room had to be arranged at the funeral. David said on the other side of the church from Bernadette's parents, witnesses said he appeared frail and devastated.

Is it strange that he didn't sit with her parents? I mean, maybe a little bit. Maybe some people thought that. Yeah. It's not strange to me that he would appear frail and devastated. I think most husbands would in that situation. Now, most people believed her death was a tragic accident, but her parents, Richard and Laura, had suspicions.

And maybe that would lend some insight as to why he wasn't, you know, sitting with them, sitting anywhere near them. And you mentioned it, right? She wasn't experienced hiker. Richard and Laura agreed that the idea that Bernadette would put herself in a situation where she could fall off of a sheer cliff was implausible. Richard told the Las Vegas Review Journal, I did a lot of hiking with her.

She was a mountain goat. For her to fall off a cliff, no. I mean, that says a lot. You know, you've seen those mountain goats how they can climb up a wall like this, flat, you know? I don't know how the hell they do it. I don't either. But you would think someone very experienced would know,

not to get too close to the edge or I mean I would know that I would be scared the death do you want to take a picture no it's just not happening right here's good enough if you want to Photoshop it in later that's fine but I'm not standing over there doesn't mean that accidents can't happen because they can happen to the most experienced people in the in the world and whatever thing they're doing but Laura also knew about the tensions in the marriage, such as the phone calls from the teen girl and the youth group and the changed computer pass code. So we mentioned it, right?

She's living there. Also, Bernadette is telling her a lot of things. Yeah. As moms and daughters do. Sure, they talk. Yeah. I know my daughters tell my wife things that they, they wouldn't tell me.

They feel more comfortable, you know, sharing it with their mom. Most of the stuff I'm probably don't want to know anyway. Probably not. I'm happy. Sometimes my wife tells me it. And I'm like, yeah, I don't really need to know that. Maybe you're just not the right person to give advisement on some of the topics, too. Yeah, it depends on what it is.

I mean, they come to me for financial stuff. Well, they should. Because I'm good with that. Right. But, you know, if you want to know what the best type of, pad is wings no wings that i don't know any of that stuff i've had to buy my share of them but i'm always told exactly what to buy i always go with the bigger is better i'm not sure that's true but you know just want to give that extra caution i i saw not to break up the the episode but i saw this

youtube short the other day and i'm sure it came from tic to something but this guy walks in with a box of pads and a box of wings. Yeah. And he lays him on the table. And his wife says, what are those? He said, you said, get pads with wings. He's got buffalo wings and a box of pads. Uh, at least he was thinking about himself too.

Yeah, maybe. At the same time, Laura was dealing with her own grief over the loss of her daughter because she was still living in the home with David. Yeah. And that meant that there was an added element of fear. The tension would be strange. It would be. Your daughter has just died.

But yet you and your other daughter are living there. Yeah. And you have a suspicion that David had something to do with it. It's going to be some strange nights, I would think. Richard's sadness turned into anger and a desire for vengeance, which led him to lose friends. And I'm, you know, you and I probably would be. that same boat. Anger and vengeance.

Yeah, I could see that. Yeah. So Lauren Richard both realized that they couldn't go on living this way. They both decided to lean on their faith to get through the grief and the questions surrounding their daughter's death. They tried their best to move forward. And you have no choice, right? You got to try your best.

It's hard, harder for some people than others. Laura told CNN that after Bernadette's death, she didn't see David around the house much. Eventually, he moved out and they lost touch completely. It doesn't surprise me. No. It doesn't sound like it was a great relationship. Not at all. You know, we said it, right?

Her parents had suspicions of him, had bad feelings about him in the very beginning. Now they think he might have had a hand in their daughter's death. That's not somebody you're probably going to keep in. touch with. No. Why would you? Now, if there were kids involved, that would be different. Sure.

In 2007, David received a life insurance payout of approximately $567,000. So close to that, $600,000. Yep. Yep. And immediately he began buying cars and paying for trips for members of his youth group. So to think about that for a minute, you know, you get almost $600,000 and immediately you're buying not a car, but multiple cars. Seems something wrong.

Yeah. You know, we do tend to analyze the way people act, right, after someone dies, especially if they're getting a bunch of money. Yeah. And, you know, on the one hand, if they didn't have anything to do with it, you could be like, well, they're just, they're trying to move forward and they're trying to be happy. And I get that.

That could be the case. Now, if you think they might have had something to do with it, you're going to look at some of that stuff with a much more negative length. Sure. But if he's buying car, you know, they're saying that he's, you start buying cars. Why are you pointing your finger at me? I don't know.

So people can. Stop pointing your finger at me. But they're saying that he bought multiple cars. Sounds like maybe for some people in his, his youth group along with these trips. Yeah, I don't know if he bought the cars, but he definitely paid for trips.

Just wonder for these people. Wonder who these people were. If they were the young girls, then that definitely casts a different light on it. Sure, that is. If you find that out. Richard and Laura always had suspicions about David. Eventually, they learned about his alleged affair

with the younger woman. So there you go. So he is having some, according to them, some type of affair with a younger woman. Yeah, they used the word alleged, which is smart.

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Quince.com slash T-Cat. Laura told the review journal, Bernadette was getting ready to leave him. She told him if he didn't change, she was going to divorce him because he kept spending all this time with this other woman. I mean, that's a good reason to get divorced. And on top of it, he's a youth pastor. Yeah. Right. I mean, not that it makes it worse, but it kind of does for some reason. I think it does, right? If you're trying to show the youth of today how you should live a wholesome life, I don't think have an affair with one of them is the wholesome life. Well, and let's not forget.

It's not just an affair. This girl is underage. So, I mean, that plays a big part in it as well. So Richard and Laura hoped one day David would be arrested, but years passed and the case remained closed. And, you know, once a case is closed, unless there's something. some big tip or breakthrough. Yeah. It's not getting worked like even an unsolved cold case that sits on a shelf and maybe a cold

case investigator touches it X amount of times a year and, you know, looks at it. I mean, if it's closed, what are they really doing with it? Probably little to nothing. Nothing. By 2008, David had returned a legacy vineyard church and was working as a youth pastor under head pastor Barry Diamond. that year, Diamond fired David after reports surfaced that David was throwing parties for teenagers, offering them alcohol, and letting them gamble in his home.

Oh, there's a wholesome way to show kids how to live their life. Hey, come over here with this person of overage. Overage. Of age. And I'll get you some alcohol and gamble. be fine. Well, they are in Vegas. Yeah, that's true.

Right. On April 6th, 2022, the case was reopened. After a former youth group member submitted a tip, the youth group member said that David had been using his position to groom kids, including a girl. He had a sexual relationship with at the time of Bernadette's death. And that was S.H. Right? The girls' initials were S.H.

investigators with the Washington County Sheriff's Office in Utah called S-H and did a phone interview. Investigators indicated in a report that a follow-up was needed, but no one ever followed up, and the case went cold again. Like a follow-up. Well, and those do kind of make you mad. Sure they do. Right. Something is noted that, okay, we need to take a next step, but for whatever reason, that next

step is never taken. And, you know, was it on purpose? I'm sure it wasn't, but it's still frustrating. Absolutely. When when the police make a mistake like that. In October 2025, Barry Diamond contacted the Washington County Attorney's Office with a shocking accusation. He claimed Bernadette's death wasn't an accident and that David pushed her. Okay. This seems like it is a shocking accusation. It's also coming from like a pastor. Yeah. So do you take that more seriously? Some might, some might not. But I think to some degree, most people would. It's definitely eye opening. Like, oh, wait, why would you say that? Yeah, you're going to want to know more about it at the very least. Yeah. Lieutenant investigator Jessica Bate spoke to Diamond who'd been trying for years

to get authorities to look into David, he told Bate that former youth group members came to him over the years with stories about David's inappropriate behavior. Some of them were scared of David and traumatized by the incident. Even after Diamond moved to California in 2012, he continued hearing stories from former youth group members.

And to me, this is interesting because it's not one person. Right. Right? This is kind of where you see some of these things really come to light. It's not just one person coming forward with an accusation that can't be corroborated. This is a bunch of people who were kids at the time who are now adults saying, hey, this is what happened when we were younger.

Makes it harder to defend it. Well, it definitely makes it harder to not necessarily. investigate to just gloss over. Right. Yeah, yeah. You got to look into it. Yeah, you have to. After talking with one former youth group member a few years earlier, Diamond learned David had an affair while married to Bernadette. That was when things clicked for him. Diamond recalled to the review journal, I see a big insurance payoff, which, you know, in and of itself is not unusual, but now it clicks that he was having an affair, which he denied to the police. So that was really the moment of ignition for me.

In his interview with the review journal, Diamond said that although he didn't talk to prosecutors until 2025, he spent several years prior to that trying to get police to reopen the case. Nobody returned his calls. That's a shame. It is. You know, again, you got to call him like you see them. When it's good police work, you say it's good police where I go.

When it appears as though they've dropped the ball, you got to say that as well. It appears a way to drop the ball. An attorney friend eventually helped connect him with a retired Washington County DA who helped reignite the investigation. He was then connected to investigator Jessica Bate. Bate set out to interview the former youth group members who were now adults and S.H.'s name was mentioned repeatedly. So it wasn't like it wasn't.

known. Sounds like many of the youth back then saw this activity going on. That they knew wasn't, you know, wasn't right. In December 2025, Bet met S.H. for an interview. S.H. said she first met David around 2000 when she was 14 years old. Over time, David began paying more attention to her. He hugged her, touched her knee, gave her gifts. Their relationship became sexual. overtime. When she was 16, he took her to a cabin where they had sex for the first time. Their sexual relationship continued for years after that. They had sex at church, after hours, or at pay-by-the-hour motel. Because you know those pay-by-the-hour motels are very romantic. Well, you get what you pay for. Yeah. You know, yeah. When it comes to hotels or motels.

And I'm sure he was trying to find a way not to leave a record. Have to put his name down. Yeah. You know, I'm sure you could pay cash maybe back then at these places. I don't know. But let's just kind of go back and look at this. At 14 years old and it does seem like grooming. It does.

You'd have to say that. Yep. You know, he's paying attention to her. Okay. Hugging. You know, it depends on the hug, right? but touching a 14 year old girl's knee, why would you need to do that? You don't.

What scenario? Yeah. Would that be appropriate? Now, the gifts, again, it depends on what it is. If you're giving gifts to everybody as the youth pastor, that's not a big deal. If you're giving gifts only to this 14 year old girl and they're gifts that you shouldn't, the type of gifts you shouldn't be giving, right? Right.

I think when you look at it, though, it's very concerned. And then obviously when you know it becomes sexual when she's only 16 years old, and he's married. He is married. Let's not forget about that. Position of leadership. Yep.

Youth minister. And that's the whole thing, right? Does she even feel at that point like she can say no? Because here's this guy in a position of power, at least at the church. maybe she thinks she's going to get in trouble, she's going to get kicked out of the church. We don't know what was going on in her mind. Yeah.

And sometimes in those cases, too, because he puts himself, you know, the youth minister, pastor, whatever, I'm that closer to God. Maybe. You know. We've seen that with some of the cults for sure. Yeah.

So they feel even more, like, I better do what he says. Yeah, we've definitely seen that with some of the cults. She knew that Bernadette was, suspicious. David was cheating on her. S.H recalled one incident where Bernadette came to church looking for David. He instructed her to tell Bernadette he wasn't there. Right.

You're definitely not doing the right thing in any sense of the word. Having sex at the church on top of it being an underage girl. Yeah. What's this guy thinking, man? I mean, obviously there's moral. criminal things going on. Yes. Or immoral.

Or immoral, I mean. Yeah. Both. David even bought her a phone that she could use to call him. And this was later confirmed by phone records. When S.H. turned 18. David told her to move out of her father's house and into an apartment he rented.

So they'd have somewhere to have sex. Boy, that is super romantic. Very romantic and very controlling, right? I need you to move out. I got a place that I rent. You're going to stay there because anytime I want to come on by, I need you to be there and be ready. Yeah.

I'm really getting upset with David here. Yeah. Apparently, he only talked about their future once when he told her the only way they could be together is if Bernadette was not a lot. And she said this chilling statement stayed with her for a long time. Sure did. And I'm sure after she.

found out that Bernadette had died, that statement probably took on an even, you know, more chilling meaning. On August 20th, 2006, S.H. now a young adult, met David at church and told him she met a boy her own age and their relationship needed then. The next day, David and Bernadette left to go to Zion National Park. Almost like, I better rub and do something here, or I'm going to. lose her. You can make that argument. The timing is very suspicious.

S.H. and David resumed their relationship two to three months after Bernadette died. They ended up marrying in 2008 after David was fired for providing alcohol to underage members of the youth ministry. Wow. But their marriage was marred by instability, emotional distance and ongoing infidelity per the New York Times. Infidelity, what? Why would there be infidelity? I always, you know, I'm always shocked that people, you know, they're the ones who are cheating with someone.

Right. Right. Am I saying that correctly? So let's say a man is cheating on his wife. Sure. With another woman. Yeah. He ends up marrying that.

that woman and then that woman can't believe that he would be unfaithful to her. Yeah. That's how the whole relationship started. Yeah. You think this guy is just now all of a sudden going to be like a great guy? Yeah. Probably not. Yeah.

That's good instincts there. It is, but man, I'll tell you, I really feel bad for this, this girl. I do. Now, you could say, okay, at some point she was an adult, should she have made some of the decisions she made? Yeah, probably not. But I don't think there's any doubt. She was groomed from a young age.

And what did that do to her mentally? Like she probably thought, I mean, I need. to be with this guy. Yeah, I'm sure he got into her head. Yeah. And any rational decision would have not probably panned out. Or it wouldn't have made sense to her. Yeah.

Right? Because of all the ways that he was probably manipulating her around that time. David said, is quoted by CNN, everything afforded to them during the duration of their marriage came from Bernadette's life insurance. So not only did he cheat on her. Right. And people think he had something to do with her death. He married this young girl who he had groomed.

Yeah. They got, you know, once they got married, but it was Bernadette's life insurance that funded their whole life. Which is very disturbing. It is. I mean, there's basically nothing that we've talked about about this man that's not disturbing. Yeah.

For someone that, again, as a or was a youth minister, he doesn't act like somebody in that position. No, not at all. Prosecutors learned that David made insurance claims before and after Bernadette's death. In July 2006, he received approximately $46,000, $500. Yeah, $46,500. $46,500? Yes.

Yeah. I put the dollars in front of the 500 and it completely threw me off. But this was after an SUV he purchased months earlier was reported stole and then was later recovered near his house. In 2008, he got a $10,000 payment after his drum set was stolen from the church where he was working. Witnesses told investigators the church burglary was strange because the church wasn't broken into, it was either left unlocked or accessed by someone with a key.

And David had a key at the time. Oh, shocking. Well, is it shocking that a guy who would do all the other things we've talked about would be into insurance fraud as well? No. I cheat, steal, underage, sex. Yeah, you use the word morals. I definitely don't think he had any.

He doesn't. And he certainly didn't have a, seemingly a problem breaking the law or breaking his marriage vows or any of that. David also got an insurance payout in 2014 after he reported over $12,000 worth of cameras and instruments stolen from his home. That was getting these payouts, man. If I would claim one thing that he claimed, I would have been canceled. Well, yeah, that was going to be my thing. Is this all with the same insurance company? Yeah.

Because if not, if it was, they need to take a look because this guy is getting by with a lot more than I think me and you would. I think some flags should have or would have popped up. Investigator Jessica Bate met with the chief of Zion National Park to review fatalities from the Angels Landing area, dating back to the 1980s of 17 documented deaths. only the ones that occurred in the area where Bernadette fell were deemed suspicious or suicide. Accidents do not typically happen in this spot. You know why? Because people don't mess around when they are close to a 1,200 foot drop off a cliff. At least that's my theory.

I'm assuming they walk up to that 12,000 foot drop or 1,200, 1200. 1200 foot drop but it might as well be 12,000 what's the difference exactly but I'm assuming they walk up to that only for one reason is to jump not to let me don't play around right you're not going to mess around knowing that they could tumble over yeah I I I don't see it happening that often now could somebody just be so foolish that they want to act out or maybe get it on camera yeah it could but I think by and large it doesn't because people people know there's no coming back. No.

You make one misstep and you're gone. I remember she's an experienced hike or some. I'm assuming she knew the risk of not doing something like that. Yeah, she knew better than most. But you also don't need to be that experience to know that following off this really high cliff is going to not be good for you. Yeah. Bate also spoke to officers who were at Zion the day Bernadette died. According to Bates' report, an officer recalled David's statements.

and demeanor to be contrived. Another officer stated the incident seemed strange because it was far too convenient. The location, the time of the morning, no witnesses. Bate and another officer collected astronomical data, pinpointing the moment David said Bernadette fell. When he spoke to the police, he claimed they took off their headlamps because the sun was starting to rise. Based on moon data, the sun hadn't risen at that time.

It didn't rise until 34 minutes after his phone call. So it's still dark. That's pretty interesting. It is. You can go back and figure all that out. David's arrest affidavit was signed on June 16th, 20206. So it's just like a month ago. Yeah.

Just less than a month ago. Yeah. It's a very recent happening according to the probable cause affidavit. At the time, due to a lack of evidence and limited investigation, Bernardette van der Meer's fault was ruled an accident and the case was closed, although investigators felt the circumstances were suspicious. I get lack of evidence. I also get limited investigation.

Yeah. I think they closed it pretty quick, but I don't know if that was the times or that they just had nothing to go on, no way to say it wasn't an accident, or if they just didn't do what they should have done. I really don't know. Yeah, I think maybe they just felt it was an accident. Maybe. The affidavit continued, David had a lot to lose. If Bernadette found out about his relationship, he stood to lose his job as a youth pastor

at a church due to infidelity. David stood to lose his marriage. Based on SH's age at the time, their relationship became physical. David faced possible criminal charges and being a registrar. saxophone. Yeah. So, you know, when you talk about motive, there's a lot there. There is.

If he thinks, which I believe he did, Bernadette was on to him and could potentially expose him. Yeah, I think she definitely was onto him based on things she told her mom. And that would be a motive from her? Yeah. David knew his wife was unhappy and they'd talked of divorce. He also knew his wife was suspicious of the infidelity and was catching on to his actions. This is all in the affidavit. David was arrested for first degree murder and insurance from on June 22nd, 2006. He was booked into the Clark County Detention Center in Las Vegas,

where he waited extradition to Utah. At the time of his arrest, he was working as a charter school counselor and a yoga teacher. I mean, that right there is scary. Not the yoga teacher. The yoga teacher is kind of scary, too. It could be. But, you know, a charter school counselor, round kids. You should not be around kids. No, this is a guy who should never be around anybody underage. Hours before he was due in court for his extradition hearing on June 25th, 2006, officers found David unresponsive in his cell. There was a suicide note and a handwritten will, the contents of which were not revealed. David was taken to the hospital and pronounced death. His death was announced that morning during the

hearing. So, I mean, what do you make of it? It was, I mean, to me, I just think there are, there are some people who just do not want to go through with the trial. Right. Right. Right. They don't want things to come out that they know are going to come out. And they probably have a pretty good knowledge that they're going to prison and they know they won't make it. This is probably a guy who could not make it in prison. Right. Yeah, for sure. He wasn't going to Especially if what was alleged that he did was actually true. And people found out about it in prison? Yeah.

Yeah. Things would not have been good for him. No. After news of David's death went public, David's former boss, Barry Diamond, said in a phone interview with the Las Vegas Review Journal, there's no winners in any of this. We're all shocked. We're all saddened by it. Our heart goes out to David's family, first of all, because they're great people.

They were part of our church at one time. we're grieving along with them for this whole thing. On July 15, 2006, the Las Vegas Review Journal reported that former Legacy Vineyard church staff, Jess and Evan Valentine, claimed that they shared their concerns about rehiring David Vandemir with Pastor Denise Diamond after David sought reemployment. The Deese Diamond could not be reached for comment. Retired senior pastor Barry Diamond declined to address the Valentine's allegations in a follow-up interview. Through an attorney, the diamonds objected to the accounts the Valentine's gave. So we mentioned it, right? He worked there, he left. Then he came back. And this couple is saying,

they laid it out. Hey, don't rehire this guy because here's all the stuff he was doing. Right. And according to them, they rehired him. anyway. Knowing what was being said. Yeah. Barry Diamond previously told the review journal he was not aware of David's alleged misconduct until after he was rehired. The Valentine said that at the time of Bernadette's death, neither they nor the others in the congregation suspected foul play. They believed it was a tragic accident. And I think, again, a lot of people did. Sure they did. They went hiking. I wanted to take a cool picture. She slipped and she she fell off the side of this cliff.

I mean, you can make the story sound believable. Well, you can, especially if you don't know all of the other stuff, right? If you don't know about the problems with the marriage, you don't know about the grooming and the affair with this underage girl. Yeah. Then you probably think their marriage is pretty good and this was just an accident. Now, once all that stuff comes out, it seems pretty clear cut. Sure does.

Right? That this guy had a hell of a moment. motive, including the almost $600,000 in life insurance money, Evan Valentine replaced David at Legacy after he left to start his own church in 2002. Soon after the transition, kids in the youth group started telling the Valentine's stories about gatherings hosted by David, where there was underage drinking and gambling. At least two girls said he made sexual comments or made them feel uncomfortable. So now it makes sense, right? They were in a really good position to learn this information because they essentially took over his job. Yeah. Several years later, Denise Diamond proposed

that David rejoined the staff. Jess and Evan objected to this. And they said they told Denise about the alleged parties and inappropriate condos. Jess told the review journal, they basically put a person who in my mind was a child predator back with kids. Through their attorney, the diamond said they allowed David back out of compassion for a grieving widower. They also said the grooming of a teenager occurred when he was at New Song Church, and they had no knowledge of what occurred at New Song, and no suspicion David killed his wife. The specific assertion that they knew of his misconduct when he returned to legacy as false,

per their attorney. So they're saying they didn't know about any of them. that. And the Valentine's are saying, you did because we told you about it. Yeah. So there, there seems to be a big discrepancy there. Sure. But I get it, right? There's, uh, there could be some liability if certain people admit to knowing about it. Yeah, why would, yeah, they're, I'm sure their attorney's like, it's all hearsay, so you are not going to. Yeah, don't say nothing. According to the affidavit is mentioned, Barry Diamond learned David was throwing parties and fired him in 2007 or 2008.

David was still dating SH at the time, who was then an adult. According to the Las Vegas Review Journal, SH said David became her youth pastor when she was 14, most likely in or around 2000. The review journal reported that this suggests his involvement

at legacy overlapped since the relationship turned sexual in 2002 when SH was 16. Yeah. According to the Valentine's, the girl was a member of Legacy's youth group at one point. And so that's interesting, right, because the diamond guy is saying,

this didn't happen here anyway. And some people are saying, no, it did. It did based on her age and the fact that she was with them. But both the Valentine's and the diamonds, say they didn't know about the affair because David went to great lengths to hide it. After David's death was announced, Bernadette's mother, Laura, felt sad at first,

but then she felt relieved because they wouldn't have to face the ordeal of a long court case. And I get that. You know, you do hear that sometimes from the family, whether it's because of a death or, I think, more often because of a plea deal, right? A lengthy trial where a ton of information comes to life has to be. extremely hard for the victim's family. Yeah. In every, you know, instance.

Now, I think the, the flip side argument would be, well, we would love to see this guy be convicted and have to serve time. Sure. But obviously at this point, that's not an option. No. Her father, Richard, also experienced complicated emotions. He said David's family didn't deserve this and they're good people. he hoped due process would give David time to think about what happened to Bernadette.

And obviously that's not going to happen. No. He's not going to have to sit around and think about what he did because he's no longer alive. David's official cause and manner of death have not been made public. Although there will be no conviction. Bernadette's parents do feel clarity. They told CNN that they hope Bernadette's story will bring awareness. to patterns that are often missed when adult working with minors abuses their authority.

They also hope people will remember Bernadette for her faith in the joy she shared with others through her voice. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, I mean, this David guy, you know, they say don't speak ill of the dead, but I'm going to anyway. He was a total piece of garbage. Sure it was. I'm very incensed by what this man did. You know, you have the grooming of a young girl.

When you're in a position of power, you have a sexual, I don't even want to use the word relationship because it's really not when she's only 16 years old that resulted from the grooming. But at the same time, you're married. Yeah. So you're doing all.

of this stuff that's illegal. And then, you know, you're also cheating on your wife. And it does seem, although it wasn't proven in a court of law, but, you know, that he killed his wife, Bernardad. And I'm sure prosecutors believe that he just pushed her off the ledge when she was looking at whatever she was looking at, looking away from him or whatever, the situation might have been. But why? You know, I always want to dissect the reasons why. You know, I always want to dissect the reasons why. He didn't want to be married to her. Yeah. Which is often the case in these types of scenarios. He wanted to be with a 16-year-old girl. He did. From his youth group who he had been grooming for two plus years. Yeah. He even said it himself. He used this sizable life insurance payout

to then later fund his life with S-H once they got together and then ultimately got married. did so he fueled his happiness on her debt yeah that's basically the way i look at he was okay with that he was totally fine with it and you know these kinds of cases they they make me furious because i'm just like you know you don't want to be married get a divorce now you shouldn't be hooking up with a 16 year old no right you shouldn't be doing that but if you want to be with someone else who's of legal age, get a divorce. That's right, do it the right way. Get divorced. Then go ahead and people do it all the time. They do. Is it fun? I'm sure not. I've never been divorced. I know it's, it's tough, right? You got to give up some of your money. You got to split assets.

Yeah, you do. I know you know about that. But again, how can you sit there and sway, right? What do you got a piece of paper and you got pros and cons. Yeah. Pros, divorce, pros, uh, murdering my wife.

And then the cons of each. Like you're that, that, uh, character that, um, oh, what is his name?

Ben Stiller plays in that movie with, uh, Jennifer Aniston and the other girl. He's trying to weigh which one he should actually. Is that the along came polly? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

He's keep, he's an actuary or something. Yeah. Yeah. Or an actual. Yeah. list or something like that. Yeah.

I kind of remember the movie. I don't. For some reason, I just remember he like poops his pants or something. And you remember Jennifer Aniston. I know that. Oh, I remember Jennifer Aniston.

But I'm just like, how do you get to that point in your mind where you believe in your heart? This is the right decision to make. I don't know. I don't either. I don't either. But, yeah,

I mean, you feel bad for a lot of people in this case. Sure. You know, I think about S-H, what would her life have been with, like, if this guy hadn't messed with her, hadn't groomed her? If he just would have been a normal youth minister and gave her normal advice and guidance and not try to do what he did. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure her life would have probably been better.

I don't know what it's like right now. Yeah. But the getting married to him wouldn't have happened. No. probably would have met someone her own age and gone through life the way that a lot of us do. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure she'd be happier.

Her family might have been happier. Sure. You know, there's all these. Obviously, Bernadette's family and even, even David's family. Yeah. Because they're hurt, right? Everybody came out and said they were great people. Yeah.

And they just happened to have a son who did a very heinous thing, actually a number of heinous thing. Yeah. They just caught up in the damages. And it's also. fascinating that it's so recent. Like this, this just happened, although her death occurred, you know, pretty long time ago. And that would be hard too, right, knowing that this occurred back on such and such date. Here it is. All these years later, and you find out that it actually is true. He did do it. I mean, what does that tell you about all the conversations that maybe

some of these people had with him over the years? Well, they were right in their suspicions of him and I don't know about their conversations with him because I know her parents I don't think they had many yeah after the fact but some people had to believe him yeah some people did and had to sit around with them not knowing that he was a killer yeah a lot of members of the church said they but that's it for our episode on bernadette david van dermere and that's it for another episode of the true crime all the time so for mike and gibby stay safe and and keep your own time ticking.