True Crime All The Time - Dean Corll "The Candyman"

Episode Date: April 2, 2018

Dean Corll was a monster who was given the nickname "The Candyman". In the early 1970s, Corll preyed on teenage boys around the Houston, Texas area. He is thought to have tortured, sexually assaulted, and murdered as many as 27 from 1970 to 1973. But Corll didn't totally act alone. He was able to convince other teenage boys to lure his victims to him. But in the end, it would be one of these teenage boys that would turn on Corll.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the details surrounding this case that would become known as the Houston Mass Murders. What would make Dean Corll turn into such a prolific sexual sadist and murderer? And how was he able to convince others to help bring his victims to him? These crimes are some of the most heinous in American history.You can help support the show by going to patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact and merchandise infoHelp support our sponsor Hunt A Killer, the subscription service that puts you in the heart of a mystery to solve. Visit huntakiller.com and use our promo code TCATT to get 15% off.Credits:Writing/Research - Maggie DobschuetzSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 72 of the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime Mike Gibson. Gibby, what is going on? Hey man, what's happening? A lot. A lot is happening in the studio, brother. It has, man. So I had a little flood in my basement, little. I used the word little. Yeah. But the studio is in the basement. So we are surrounded by basically everything that was in the basement. Yeah, it's up in my space. Gibby barely has room to even sit in his chair. I know it. But it's been, it's been a strange couple of days, man. Had a lot of people here cutting out drywall. And I have about 16 jet engines that are going at all times. I know it, man. I'm trying to dry everything

out. But it's working. You're on the back end of it now. No, it'll get there. It'll get there. And then we'll have to have some contractors come back in and, you know, redo it. But it's just a pain. All right, Gibbs, we got some Patreon. Okay. We want to talk about that? Yeah, let's do that. So we had new supporters in the form of Allison Lee. Thank you. Gen Mass. Leah. Just Leah. Just Leah. Like from Star Wars. Primal. Maybe she's a princess. Princess Leah. You don't know. Or is it Leah. Oh, it is actually, Leah. Maybe hers is Leah. Maybe you said it wrong. It would not be the first. first time or the last. That's true. Christina Sykes. Yeah, she psyched up, man. Renee Poirier. Poirier. Poirier. Porier. Porier. I don't know. One of those.

Like, poor? Yay. Yay. Gives just takes the R. Both are is completely out. Yeah, they're silent. Zoe Pearson. Zoe. Darrell Russ jumped out at our highest level. Thank you. Had Aaron? Just Aaron? No last name. Okay. Sarah Arnold. Yeah, Sarah. You take that out. You can't even say the first name.

I can't. That's the easy part. You're going to play that, aren't you? Yes, I am. Oh, great. Well, thanks, Sarah. Jennifer Schrader, who has been a Patreon supporter, but up to the highest level. Stepped it up.

Thank you. So we appreciate that. Catherine Lacey, Tina Gardner, Danielle Grohlix. You sound confident. I'm going with it, man. All right. You just, you know, confidence is half. the battle. It is. We had designs by Dilo. DeLo. Delo. What's up?

Jumped out at our highest level. Yeah. I have not checked it out to figure out what type of designs we're dealing with here. Right. But we're no soon enough. You're going to have people Googling designs by Dilo. So, Tinley Cotton. Tenly. I like that name. Julie Warmuth. She's not cold. Steve Snyder. Thank Steve. And Leanne Hippensteele. The old Hippensteele. powerful man it's just hip and steel but steal you don't know

is it you don't know if it's like steel like steal or like I'm stealing your stuff you said you don't know I do know because I I can see how it's spelled oh I can't so I do know

maybe you gotta share that information with me ahead of time and then if we go back into the vault this month we selected Laney from True Crime Fan Club yeah and Laney

started her podcast I think right before ours or... Yeah, around the same time. Yeah, because I remember back in the day, Laney and I and Gibbs you too, we got a lot of information from her. And she was instrumental in kind of helping us get up and running. Lainey is an amazing podcaster,

but she's an amazing person to... I want to say, she's just, man, she's just sweetest, nicest. Oh, yeah. Known within the true crime. podcast community as just a great, great person, willing to help out anybody. And she has a great podcast. So if you're not listening, check it out. Yeah, jump on over and listen. And then on PayPal Gibbs, we had Samantha, always, always steps it up, does the, oh, man, yeah. Elizabeth McKisson. McSan, not as confident about that one. You say it in an Irish voice or what?

I didn't, but you just changed the word Irish. Did I? Yeah, to sound like you thought it was Irish. We had Jennifer Murray. Hey, thanks, Jennifer. Mike Holbert. Mike. Shelly Lanthorn.

Lantthorn? Lantthorn. Like Foghorn, Lantthorn? Yeah, I don't think so, but I like to try anyway. Alex Hale. Hey, Alex. And Emily Brandenberg. Oh, Emily, thank you.

So a lot of new support, a lot of continued support. on Patreon. We appreciate it all. We appreciate all of our folks on social media, getting the word out. CrimeCon's coming up quick, Gibbs. It's around the corner. Month away. Yep. And if anybody's on the fence, if you're going to sign up, make sure you use our promo code T-Cat. And we'd love to see you there. I'm getting tons of emails about people that are going. We're getting ready to set up a meetup. I know. I got my lecture I got to prepare for. Yep. You're given a symposium on some type of forensics. It's way over my head. I don't know. We'll release it when we get closer. Yeah. Yeah. I think it has something to do with levidity. Pretty high-end stuff, man.

It's very, very technical. Yeah. I would literally pay money to see you stand in front of a podium. Yeah. And give a lecture on something like that. Get your wallet out. I will do it, man. All right. Big shout out to Maggie for writing and research on this episode. That help is always a appreciated. Yeah. Thank you, Maggie. And then don't forget to check out true crime all the time unsolved. We have an episode out right now in Rhonda Casto. And this is a very interesting case because it involves a woman that essentially falls off of a cliff. Some would say fall. Some would say push. Right. I'm saying fall, but just to kind of lead us into the story, but you can imagine where the twist and turns go from there. All right, Gibbs. Let's get into today's episode. Let's do it. We're talking about the Candy Man Dean Coral. Just want to sing that song, don't you?

The Candy Man Can? Yeah. You want to, don't you? I can just picture Sammy Davis singing that song. Just brings a little smile to your face. A little tear to your eye. No, no, I don't tear up at it. I always think about the little skit and Willy Wonka, the original Willy Wonka when he's in the candy store.

That's what I think about when I hear. You're the Candy Man. Well, I always like to get into your head and know what you're thinking about. I'm not thinking about the horror skit, you know, the Keenny Man show or whatever, the movie. Did you say the word horror? Yeah. With two syllables? No.

Because I thought you were leading down a totally different path. Yeah, no. Now, I will say that movie, not to get off track, but that movie scared the bejibis out of me when I was younger. Willemanka? No, Candyman. Candyman. You know, where you say that three times in front of the mirror and... Yeah.

Don't say it. Don't do it. Candy man. Don't do it. What? Candy man? Don't say it three times. Front of the mirror.

What should I not say? Candy man? Just don't do it. I thought you were going to tell me it was Willie Wonka and the umpalumpas. No, that didn't scare me. Freak somebody out out there. I guarantee you somebody's freaked out by umple umplas or umpah umpus. Oh, I guarantee you that people have nightmares about those umpalumpalumpus.

Mm-hmm. But talking about Dean Coral, he's kind of, he's kind of, kind of crossed over into a number of different episodes that we've done, especially on unsolved. Because, you know, when this thing is all said and done, you know, it's thought that he murdered at least 27 young boys, men in the Houston area in the early 70s. We've done some Houston unsolved. We have. I'm thinking specifically about the icebox murders. And anytime in Texas, his name gets, you know, around that time frame, his name gets thrown in there. He's pretty prolific.

Yeah, because he was so prolific. At the time that this concluded, Coral was a 33-year-old electrician living in Houston, Texas. And this case is going to become known as the Houston mass murders. And it's one of the most horrific series of murders in the history of the United States. It is a very, very big case. You know, he gets the nickname, the Candyman, like we mentioned. And we'll get into that, how all that comes about. Right.

It seems kind of benign, but then to me, it's also scary as I'll get out, the Candyman. When you start to realize why he gets that nickname and how it helps him commit the crimes that he does. David, this entire story of sadistic homosexual slayings would almost appear to be fiction, scripted with the full intention of shocking readers over and over again. It's that hard to believe. So many lives involved, so many killed over such a long period of time, and all of it going undetected. But it's not fiction.

It's very real. A deadly conspiracy now listed as one of the most horrifying crimes in this century. So Dean Arnold Coral was born Christmas Eve. 1939 in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Not too far from us, Gibbs. No, not far all. He was the oldest child of Mary Robinson and Arnold Coral. And you know we're going to be saying Coral a lot.

And the Walking Dead memes are going to be coming out of the woodwork. Oh, I mean, they did when you had the other episode. When we talked about it before. His mother was described as very loving, very kind to Dean. And we've talked about this a lot. Gibbs, the father was the distant one. He was very strict with his son, but the love wasn't there. And you see that, and some of that is the time. Yeah, that's true. Right? The time of late 30s, early 40s versus now, a lot of men, it seemed like, were very distant back then when it came to

raising their kids. Yeah, on the harder side. Yeah. Now, the parents, ended up breaking up. They were fighting all the time. And they divorced in 1946 when Dean Younger Brother was only four years old. So Dean at this point is about seven. His younger brother's around four. His mother sells the home in Indiana and they move to Memphis, Tennessee. But the reason for the move is so that the kids can be close to their dad.

And maybe, you know, this really. tells you a lot about Dean's mother, Mary, that she thought that was important because Arnold was in the Air Force. So she wanted to move to Memphis so that the two boys could stay close to their dad. Now, Dean was very shy as a kid. He tended to keep to himself. You know, this was a kid that would not go out of his way to engage with other people. But as a youngster, he did seem to have empathy for others, which is a strange trait. And when you think about a lot of the people that we talk about, especially prolific serial killers, now I think that's going to change over time.

And we're going to have to maybe figure out why that did change. But it's important, I think, to point out that as a kid, he seemed to be empathetic. He cared for those around him. Yeah. Now, at this age of seven, Dean contracted rheumatic fever, but it wasn't diagnosed and it wasn't treated for a very long time. So, you know, as we're talking about why would things start to change in Dean's life, could this be part of it? Maybe. Because they don't find out until 1950.

So he's 11 years old. So about four years go by where he has this rheumatic fever. before it's diagnosed and before they can start treating it. Well, it can do some damage. Seems like a long time. Yeah. And the only reason they even figured it out was because he had a heart murmur. That's one of the things that you can end up with.

And that's how they found out that he had rheumatic fever. But because of this condition, there was a lot of things that he wasn't allowed to do physically. You know, he couldn't join in like in gym class with the other kids. So again, he's already a shy kid who likes to keep to himself. Now he's probably sitting on the bleachers while the rest of the kids are having fun playing dodgeball and crab soccer and whatever else they play. I don't know what they played in the 1950s. I remember I had an industrial work, trying to think with the official name he had. But, you know, so when I worked for UPS, I was on the hazmat crew.

Well, of course you were. Yeah. Interesting. Right? Did you have a vest? I did have a special vest. Special zip-up uniform if we ever needed it. So I just want to paint this picture because I love the UPS stories.

Yeah. So a special zip-up vest. No, the whole gear, man. Assless chaps. Yeah, there you go. Sure. All right. So I'm sorry.

I interrupted you. Yeah. You're the hazmat star of the UPS. Keep going. When you took that. role, you had to go get a, see the industrial medical doctor. Is that the official name? No.

But that's what he does, right? He works for, he's a doctor for all the corporations and, you know, that, and the, yeah. I got you. You're following me. They're trying. Yeah, I'm trying. So, anyway, so you have to do initial physical before you can take that additional role. Well, I have no idea, but you have to.

So they take x-rays and stuff. like that. But they don't talk about what was on the x-ray then, right? It's not until you step out of that role. They do it again. And I remember when I, you'd take that role for a year. So after the year, I was done with it. Step out, they send you back up to the industrial physician doctor, medical doctor, whatever. And they have you do the full physical again, and they take the x-rays and stuff. But I just remember when I was done, this was a new doctor. And he's like, hey, we need to talk to you before we send you back. You're thinking, what the heck, man?

You know, I was in my early 20s. Well, and we know you were in peak physical condition. I was. You were a track star. You were a wrestling star. We've known this. You've talked about it. I'm just saying I was in great shape, man.

But anyway, he pulls me in the office. sits me down and says, so he asked me if I had romantic fever ever. I was like, no. I was like, not that I know of, but no. And he said, well, you had to because you have a heart murmur and you have a leaky vow and your heart's enlarged. And you only get that from having that. Did you just say, you know, this would have been great information to tell me a year ago. Yeah. So I'm like, you know, I'm like, he's like, you should see your doctor right away. You know how they do that. Yeah.

See your doctor right away. Can't tell you anymore. Like they do on the erectile dysfunction commercials? I don't know. I don't have that problem. See your doctor right away. But anyway, so I walked out thinking, what the heck, man? And of course, by the time he told me all this and I left, it was after four.

So my doctor's not a bit, I can't get a hold of my doctor. So I'm freaking out, you know. Walking around with a baboon. heart. Yeah. Yeah. What's this me, man? How many days do I got left?

But anyway, talk by doctor and he's like, the guy don't know what he's talking about. You're fine. Don't worry about. Everything's good. No problems. Yeah. So the moral of the story, and it took a long time to get there. Yeah, I did.

Don't trust the industrial medical doctor, whatever that is. Yeah. So I do have an large heart, but that's normal. You just have a big heart. Everybody knows that. Exactly right. Yeah. I got a little leakage.

but everybody's got a little leakage. A little leakage. So nothing to worry about. All right. Well, I assume they want to do a baseline. Yeah, they did. And then if you come into contact with a bunch of hazardous material,

did you get like extra pay for that or something? I honestly, I don't remember. You wouldn't sign up for that just for the hell, though. I think we got extra pay if we actually had to go lay around and do the actual. But we just never, we never had any issues with the hats. has this material that we hauled anyway.

Oh, all right. So Gibby shares a little bit more. Every little bit. I know. Some people hate when I do that. That's all right. But, you know, hey, I'm doing it for free. I'm giving you this information for free, man.

So back to Coral. His parents divorced, but they try again in 1950. Try again, what? They come back together. Oh, do they? Yeah. They get back together. They try the relationship.

Maybe I missed you. I missed you, too. Yeah. I missed how you used to yell at me. I missed that too. Let's get back together. It lasts about three years and falls apart again in 1953. You know, Mary keeps custody of Dean and his brother.

And then she ends up getting married again and actually has another child with her new husband. That happens. It does happen. Yeah. But I love the fact that you pointed out. I know, I'm just saying. So they end up moving to Texas. And as Dean gets into high school, they have a candy making business called pecan prints.

Pecan prints. Pecan prints or pecan, depending on how you say it. Pecan and where you're from. And as he's in high school, he starts working there. He's running one of the candy making machines. He's packaging candy. and his new stepdad is the person that's selling the candy, salesman. So this is kind of like this business that they built up.

Do you like pecans? All right. I do like pecan pie. Do you? Yeah. I do like that. But it was said that Dean didn't, he didn't mind this job at all. He actually kind of liked it.

You know, he was able to balance working there, going to high school. And he actually did pretty well in school. But even in high school, he remained some. somebody that was aloof, didn't have a lot of friends, didn't really date. You know, that's a common theme, Gibbs, we talk about. Yeah. You know, the loner, the person that's not able to relate to other people. It's not the rule.

There are a lot of exceptions of pretty ruthless killers that we've talked about that they were very popular. Yeah. I think the difference today versus back then is that you had a lot of, a lot of, they were a lot of loners. But now with the internet and chat rooms and Facebook and stuff, I think those people that typically would be loners,

they're still loners in their real world. But on social media, they can be fairly active because they're hiding behind the screen. Sure. So they just don't know. They can be six foot two, 180 with a six pack. Yeah.

When they're really not. Or when they're really not. That's right. You know, you just don't know. I'm just telling you, you'd be surprised who you're talking to on the other side. I know you've been catfished probably what, 20, 30 times? Well, you think I've been catfish, man. You just seem like somebody that would have been catfish. I don't get catfish, man. I got my wits about me. I can tell. And then the family moves to Houston. As Dean Coral's finishing up high school in 1958, they opened up another candy business there, another pecan print shop.

Yeah. So a couple of years out of high school, Dean's mother gets him to move to Indiana so that he can live with his grandma. And in Indiana, he ends up meeting a girl. They start a relationship. But eventually it falls apart when she actually asks him to marry her and he says no. So he's in Indiana for a couple of years. But then he moves back to Houston and begins helping out with the family candy business. And it's not long after he moves back.

It's in 1963 that his mother divorces this guy that had become his stepdad. And she makes the decision to open up her own candy business, which she called the Coral Candy Company. And she makes Dean the vice president. Why couldn't we had that, Gibbs? I know. Needed somebody in our lives that had a company and said, hey, you're 22 years old. Here, you're the vice president of. marketing. Yeah, exactly. So they're starting this business and not too long into it, a teen male

employee comes forward and accuses Dean of trying to proposition him. Now, it is the early 60s, so nothing happened, right? They just fire this kid. And no one takes the time to investigate any of the claims. And then comes Vietnam. And Dean Coral ends up getting drafted into the army in 64. He was sent to Louisiana for his basic training and then on to Georgia and then eventually got his permanent assignment in Fort Hood, Texas. So he's back in Texas. And he was a radio repairman and he had a great record while he was in the service.

But he didn't like it at all. So because of this, he applied for a hardship discharge. And he used the excuse that he needed to be home with his family to help run the family business. And they granted him this discharge. So he was only in for about 10 months, got out in 1965. All right, Gibbs, let's take a quick minute to talk about our sponsor, Hunt a Killer. Now, a lot of you out there have probably heard about the subscription box service called Hunt a Killer. And maybe some of you haven't.

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Make sure you use the code T-Cat for 15% off. Apparently, it was during this time in the Army that Dean Coral first realized that he was homosexual. So he gets out, he goes back to Houston, and, and he's, and, and, he's, And he resumes this position as vice president of the Coral Candy Company. And you have to think about this dynamic because the guy that was his stepdad, that his mother divorced, has his own candy business. It's basically the competition for Dean and his mom's business, their candy company. So apparently Dean was working a lot of crazy hours.

they were really trying hard to make this work to meet the supply and demand for the business to make sure that the family was doing well. Now later on in 65, they moved the company to a new location. And it happened to be just across from Helms Elementary School. And with what we are going to learn about Dean Coral, you can kind of see this foreshadowing as not being a good thing. And this is where he starts to earn the nickname as the Candyman. Some people even called him the Pied Piper because he was giving out free candy to local children.

But especially if they were teen boys. Right now, this is where we really start to get into it. He favored teen boys. And there just happened to be a lot of teen boys working for the candy company. and Dean was, for lack of a better word, he was creepy. Yeah. Towards these young boys. Inappropriate?

Inappropriate. That's a really good word for it. Just like the teen boy earlier that had made the accusation against him, it was dismissed. Well, not really. Yeah, it was dismissed. It wasn't even looked into. Nobody does anything about Dean's behavior towards these young boys. But he went as far as installing a pool tape.

in the candy factory. He was trying to make this a place where these teenage boys would want to come and hang out. And this is when Dean befriends a 12-year-old boy by the name of David Brooks. So we're talking about a sixth grader. And David was one of the kids who would show up. He loved getting free candy. And Dean was more than happy to give out free candy all the time. to keep these boys around.

And it just kind of snowballed, right? The candy company became a place where, you know, some of these boys worked, but a whole bunch of other boys just hung out. I mean, they were playing pool. It was almost like a, it was a hangout spot. And for somebody like Dean Coral, that's exactly what he was trying to do. He was trying to set this up. And he did.

Perfect for him. I mean, he would take some of these boys on trips. He would take him to the beach. Today, you would look at that as, okay, why does an adult want to spend so much time with these, you know, 12, 13, 14 year old boys? Probably something that's not right there. It should be red flags everywhere. And I think David Brooks especially, he started to view Dean Coral as almost like a surrogate dad.

You know, Dean was handing out money. he was doing things for David. So David's probably like, hey, this guy's great. So Dean is setting up this relationship over time with David Brooks. But eventually it starts to get very twisted. You know, he urged David into a relationship that should never happen between an adult and a child. Simple as that. And it wasn't long before he started to sexually abuse David.

And part of this involved him giving David money, gifts, all kinds of different things in exchange for this inappropriate relationship. And we talked about Dean being a father figure to David. You know, David came from a home where his parents were not together. So he was probably looking for this type of father figure. And if it would have happened differently, Gibbs, he probably may have found someone, You know, if you think of like a good organization, like big brother, big sister. Yeah, good ones. He probably could have found somebody that was willing to give their time and be that type of surrogate father figure. Unfortunately, what he found was Dean Coral. And Dean saw what David was looking for and he used that.

And he took advantage of that situation. I mean, it got to the point where he was often staying with Dean Coral. You know, he looked at this place that Dean had set up as almost like a second home. Now, I'm not really sure what turned Dean Coral into a murderer, into a sexual assactor. But by 1970, this is what he had turned into. You know, he would kill 27, 28 young men in a very short time frame. We're talking 1970 to 1973. And these boys slash men, I'll use it interchangeably, because the age range goes from 13 to 20 years old.

So he's not all over the place, right? Dean Coral has a very specific type and it is young boys and young boys. young men. Yeah. Okay, get more specific than that. And all of these victims would come from the neighborhood that Dean lived in. This is a neighborhood called Houston Heights. It was at the time known as one of the poor neighborhoods of the city. And Dean Coral would have accomplices. And these were teens themselves. And he usually always had either one or two people helping him out. It was David Brooks that we talked about. And then another young man that we're going to get into

whose name was Elmer Wayne Henley. And some of the victims were friends of Elmer and David. Others were teen boys that Dean would get to know before he decided that he was going to kill them. And Dean liked to get his victims into his car by telling them that there was a party. That was one bruise that he used. Another was that he would find a kid that was walking and say that he would give him a ride home or take him wherever he needed to go.

And from there, he would pump these kids full of drugs and alcohol. Sometimes he would play a game with them that involved handcuffs that they thought was a game. Right. Dean knew it wasn't a game. But whatever it was, it was designed to get handcuffs on them. or in some cases he would just forcefully grab these kids and put handcuffs on them. Wow. He would end up taking off their clothes, tie them to his bed, or a torture board that he had hung up on a wall. And this torture board was used a lot.

He would violate these victims sexually. He would beat them. He would torture them. And then eventually he would strengthen. them or shoot them with the 22. And sometimes this torture would last for days before they were actually killed. He put a lot of these bodies into plastic sheets and then buried them in a boat shed that he rented.

Some were buried at the beach, some in the woods, but a lot in this rented boat shed. And sometimes Gibbs, he would make his victims either call or run. right to their parents to say they were okay ahead of time knowing that he was going to kill them. Yeah, we've heard that one before too. We have. Yeah. But if you think about it, you know, that's a tactic used to help throw off the parents designed to make them worry less about, you know, where their kids are, I guess.

That could be the only tactic I could think of for doing that. And like a lot of serial killers, Dean Coral. like to collect trophies. And for him, it was usually the keys of his victims. So we talk about the number of victims, and it kind of varies. I think 26 are known for sure and have been identified. There's a 27th victim that is believed to have been that of Dean Coral. And naturally, authorities assume the number is probably way higher than what they've even been able

to corroborate and or identify. But like we said, it started in 1970. He would take his first victim that year in September. And it was 18-year-old Jeffrey Conan. He was a college student at the University of Texas, hitchhiking Gibbs. I mean, we can't get through a damn story without a victim starting out hitchhiking. Hitchhiking, bad news, man, bad news. So Conan is hitchhiking, but he never makes it where he's supposed to be.

And the thought is that Dean Coral offered him a ride. Now, his body would not be found until 1973. And this is going to be the same for a lot of victims, because 1973, and we'll get into it later, but that's going to be when all of this three-year period of torture and killing becomes known. And when they do find the body, they determined that Jeffrey Conan died of asphyxiation. He was manually strangled and a gag had been placed in his mouth. He ended up being buried under a rock, covered with lime, wrapped in plastic, and was bound. And David Brooks would later say that,

it was right around the time that Jeffrey Conan was killed. He saw something very strange. He walked in on Dean Coral torturing some young boys on his torture board. So again, Gibbs, this is a kid who has been befriended by Dean Coral, walks in, sees this friend slash father figure, whatever you want to call it. Right. Torturing other kids his age. And Coral ends up telling David that if he doesn't say anything about what he saw,

he would buy him a Corvette, a Corvette. Wow. Huh. You know, as a kid in the 70s, who wouldn't want a Corvette? I know, man. It's pretty cool. No, I'm not saying that that's... For the wrong reasons.

Yeah, for the wrong reasons. I'm not saying that's a reason not to... tell on this guy, but I also have a feeling that Dean Coral held a lot of power over David Brooks. Now later on, Dean is going to let David in on the fact that not only did he torture those kids, but he killed them as well. And this is when he makes David Brooks an offer. He says that he will pay David $200 for any boy that he's able to bring. He's able to bring him. He says that he will pay David $200 for any boy that he's able to bring to Dean Coral. I mean, how messed up is this?

But David signs on for this. And he finds two young boys, James Glass and Danny Yates. He lures them away from a church event to Dean's apartment. And these boys end up tied to the board. They were raped. They were strangled. And ultimately, they were buried in the, rented boat shed. Wow. So now we have a young boy essentially working for Dean bringing victims

to him. And you always talk about stranger danger, right? You've heard that since we were kids. Right. So if a man pulls up alongside you in a van and he's offering you candy, you say no and you run away. Yeah. Stay away from the van. But if you have a peer, a kid you're at. age, you don't think as much about it. Right? When this kid says, hey, let's go do X, whatever X is. Right. You would be much more trusting of a kid your age than you would be the scary guy in the

van. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And this is how Dean was able to lure so many victims to him because he was using. He was trustworthy to the other kids. I think back Gibbs when you were a kid. You saw somebody at the playground or at a pickup basketball game or whatever. I mean, you didn't think anything about that. No. You know, you want to get ice cream? Let's go get ice cream. Yeah. They said, come on. Let's go over here. You

would say, okay. Yeah. So then we jump into 1971. We're in January. David and Dean saw two boys walking home. This is Donald and Jerry Waldra. They lured them into the car, took them to a another apartment that Dean was renting at the time. They were raped, tortured, strangled, and buried in that same rented boat shed. A March 9th, a 15-year-old named Randall Harvey, he was coming home from his job at a gas station, was never seen again. It ended up that he was shot in the head, buried in the boat shed. But this Randall Harvey, they would not be able to identify him.

until 2008. Wow, that's a long time, man. That's a very, I mean, it's, you know, 37 years this kid was missing. His family had no idea what had happened to him. They find out in 2008 that he was a victim of the Candy Man. On May 29th of that year, 13-year-old David Hillegeist and 16-year-old Gregory Winkle, they were on their way to the pool when they were. were killed. And this is where Elmer Wayne Henley comes into the picture. So David Brooks was a childhood

friend of Henley. There's a connection here because Gregory Winkle was the boyfriend of Randall Harvey's sister, who, you know, and Randall Harvey was, went missing in March. Gregory Winkle goes missing in May, but there's a connection. So you got to wonder, did police put that together? And if they didn't, why not? And like a lot of cases that that happened like this, the police are going to come under fire for not being able to figure some of this stuff out when people think they should have. But we talked about Elmer Wayne Henley. And it's in late 1971 that he meets Dean Coral. And Elmer Wayne Henley and David Brooks were childhood friends. And David urges Henley to meet Dean. And it was strange because prior to meeting Dean, Elmer Henley was one of the individuals that was handing out like missing posters for some of these kids that had gone missing.

Now, initially, I think Henley was supposed to be a victim of Dean Coral, right? So this is another kid David is bringing to Dean. But somewhere along the way, Dean Coral thinks that this. This could be another person like David that could help him lure in more victims. So he doesn't kill Henley. He offers him the same deal that he offered to David Brooks, which is, I'll give you $200 for any boy that you bring me. And I'm just blown away by this Gibbs of, now I get it. You're a young kid.

Somebody offers you $200. That's a lot of money back then. It is a lot of money. for a young kid. But in your mind, you have to be thinking, what am I getting this money for? To lure kids to this older man? Something has to go off in your head at some point. You would hope so.

But it doesn't. I mean, both of these kids, David Brooks and Elmer Henley, they're all in on this deal. In August of 71, David and Dean are out. And David sees somebody that he knows by the name of Ruben Haney. he's walking home after seeing a movie. And David talks this boy into going to a party, but the party is just another apartment rented by Dean Coral. And Haney ends up being gagged, strangled to death,

and buried in the boat shed. Boat shed's getting pretty full. It's going to get really full. The very next month, two more young boys were lured to the home. of Dean Coral. One was killed pretty quickly, but the other boy was kept alive for a number of days and tortured before he was killed. And we've talked about Dean Coral renting a number of apartments. And this was kind of key, Gibbs, because he didn't stay at one place for very long. He kept rotating addresses. And he kept moving from apartment.

to apartment. My assumption is that he was probably worried that somebody would see, you know, these kids going into his apartment. And he was using that as a safeguard against being identified. And if you have the means to do it, which apparently he did, he bought this kid a Corvette. He obviously had some money. Absolutely. He did. He was able to rent a bunch of different apartments and rotate between them. So now we get to. into 1972. And this is when Elmer Wayne Henley really gets into the act of helping Dean Coral. And in February of that year, he would bring his first victim to Dean Coral. This is a boy by the name of Willard Branch from the Houston Heights area. And he did it by saying that they were going to smoke wheat. So this is

what he used to lure this kid. They tricked the boy into putting on handcuffs. He was tortured. It was ultimately killed. And he would later be found buried in that boat shed. A month later, Henley lured Frank Aguier to one of Dean's apartments. Now, I have to say that in the beginning, I don't believe that Henley knew the real reason that Dean wanted these boys.

because I think what Dean Coral had told Henley was that the boys were being sold into a slavery ring that was operating out of Dallas. I don't know that that makes it a whole lot better on the part of Henley, but I don't think in the beginning he knew that they were going to be killed. But eventually he's going to learn that fact. And I think it's after this Frank Aguier that he figured. out that Dean is sexually assaulting these kids and he's ultimately, you know, killing them. But even after he learns this, Henley doesn't step away. He continues to help David and Dean lure other kids. This victim, Frank Aguier, he was 18 years old and he was engaged to a girl named Rhonda Williams and she's going to be important to this story later on. But I want to

throw in the fact now. Aguire was strangled and then later buried at a beach. So this is one victim that was not buried at the boat shed. But there is a lot of activity in 1972. Mark Scott was a friend of David and Elmer. He was strangled, buried at the beach. Johnny Delone was walking to a store, never seen again. It was later learned that he was strangled, shot in the head. There was a boy named Billy Balak who once worked for the candy company. So again, Gibbs, I mean, there are a lot of ties here. And it's why I say that police are going to come under some fire for not investigating

what appears to be on paper a lot of missing teen boys. You know, Billy was strangled. He was also buried. at the beach. Boy named Steve Sickman was leaving a party, never seen again. He was strangled with a cord buried in the boat shed. A 19-year-old named Roy Bunton was abducted while walking to his job. Now, Bunton was shot twice in the head.

He would later be found buried in the boat shed. But initially, he would not be named as a victim of Dean Coral. And he wasn't identified until 2011. So it took him a long time to figure out who this was. It's a shame, really. So in October of 72, Elmer Henley and David Brooks are out. And they come across two kids, Wally, Seminole and Richard Hembray. And they spot these two kids.

They're walking to Richard's house. They're able to get them into David's Corvette. and they take them to Dean's apartment. And at some point that evening, Wally is able to call his mother from Dean's apartment. But the call gets cut off very quickly. And apparently the only word that he was able to get out was mama before the call cut. It's actually really sad.

It really is. I mean, really sad. Imagine his mother on the other end, knowing that's her son yelling out for her. and the next day somehow Elmer Henley accidentally shot Hembrie in the mouth. But both of these kids were strangled to death and buried in the boat shed. The last victim in 1972 was Richard Kepner. He was 19 years old and he was going to call his fiancee from a pay phone.

And that's the last anybody ever knew of his whereabouts. He was strangled and buried at a beach. And again, he was not identified until 1983. So all this is going to wrap up Gibbs in 73. And we'll get to that. Right. But it's amazing how many of the victims are not identified until... So much later, man.

Yeah. 10 years, 20 years, 30 years later. 40 years in one. I mean, I guess the impressive part is that they actually are able to identify them later. Yeah, they don't stop working on it. But it's just sad for those families. to, you know, have to wait so long to finally know what happened to their child. Right.

So wrapping up 72, you know, we're talking about at least 10 teenagers murdered during that year. Half of them buried at a beach, half of them buried in the boat shed. That's a lot of kids from the same area to go missing during that time frame. Which is unbelievable, really. It really is. I mean, as a parent, I can't even imagine what they were filling in that neighborhood, you know, that part of the Houston area. Well, you would think everybody would be on edge.

Yeah, it makes sense now, you know, and we knew, but, you know, so when we did the ice box, you know, that was the biggest thing that ever happened to that town, you know, in such a bad way. And they said, it would be easily forgotten. Because of this. This, and you can see why it would be easily forgotten. This is so much worse. So in January of 73, Coral moves again. He changes his address.

And not long after moving into this new address, he killed 17-year-old Joseph Liles. And Joseph Liles was an acquaintance of both Elmer and David. He actually lived on the same street as David Brooks. Wow. He was kidnapped. He was tortured. And he ended up. being buried at a beach. So Coral used a number of different beaches to bury bodies. And then just a

couple of months later in March, Coral moves again. So again, I can't stress enough how much he's moving around. And just like 72, there is a lot of victims in 1973. The next would be Billy Lawrence. He was a friend of Elmer Wayne Henley. He asked his parents if he could go fishing with some of his friends, and that's the last time they ever saw him. Now, Coral kept him alive for four days, sexually assaulting him, torturing him, before, you know, ultimately killing him. Ray Blackburn was a hitchhiker that they picked up. He was ultimately strangled to death.

Homer Garcia met Elmer Wayne Henley. I guess they were in driving school together. So Henley gets him back to. you know, one of Coral's apartments, whatever apartment he's in now. He's shot in the head and in the chest. John Sellers was a victim that was shot in the chest. And he was killed just two days before his 18th birthday. And we talked about Billy Balik.

Billy Balik was a victim in 72 that it worked for the candy company. Well, they killed his brother, Tony, as well. He was strangled to death. So here's a family that lost two kids, two boys. It's unbelievable. Can't even imagine it, man. Marty Jones was another victim. Now, he was last seen walking with Elmer Henley.

He was tortured and ultimately strangled to death. Charles Cobble was a friend of Elmer Henley. So Elmer Wayne Henley is connected to a lot of these victims here towards the end. And the reason for that is, is because by, July of 73, Henley was the only person now getting victims for the lack of a better term for Dean Coral. Because by this point in time, David Brooks had married. So he stopped doing this for Dean. But Dean Coral killed his last victim on August 3rd, 1973. This was a 13-year-old boy from the South Houston area by the name of James Dray Mala. And he was a 13-year-old boy. And he was a 13-year-old boy from the

South Houston area by the name of James Dray Mala. And he was abducted and driven to Dean's home. He was tied to the torture board, raped, tortured, and strangled with a cord, ultimately

buried in the boat shed. So this was the last victim of Dean Coral. But just four days later on August 7th, Elmer Henley had talked a teenage boy by the name of Timothy Cordell Curley. into going over to Dean's house or Dean's apartment.

He was intended to be the next victim. But they weren't alone. They were also with Rhonda Williams. And this is why, you know, I talked about her early on. She had been the fiancé of victim Frank Aguier. And apparently that night, her dad got drunk and was hurting her. So she wanted to get away from the house. and Elmer Henley said, well, come along with us.

We're going to party. So you have Elmer, Ronda Williams, and this Tim Curley, who is intended to be a victim for Dean Coral. When they get to his house, Dean's mad because Elmer brought along a woman. And he thought that, you know, that this was really going to mess up his plans. But he calmed down. They were all partying. they were drinking beer, they were smoking weed.

And while the teens were drinking and smoking, Dean Coral was formulating a plan of what he was going to do. So eventually the teens pass out, they fall asleep. Elmer Henley wakes up to find that he's gagged and handcuffed. And so are Rhonda Williams and Tim Curley. So essentially, Dean Coral had just waited for the three of them to fall asleep so that he could bind them. them. And this is going to come out later from Elmer, but he said that Dean Coral told them that they

were all going to die because they had brought Rhonda with them. So Elmer Henley is pleading with Dean saying, hey, you know, just let me go. I will help you kill the other two. And Dean agrees to that plan. So he unties Elmer. They drag Rhonda and Tim to the bedroom, put them on this torture board. Dean hands Henley a knife and he says to him, you're going to cut the clothes off of Rhonda, you're going to rape her, and then you're going to kill her. So he's telling Henley,

this is what you have to do, all by yourself. Meanwhile, Dean is going to rape and kill Tim Curley. Now imagine this Gibbs. These two victims are awake. Yeah. They're hearing all of this.

They know what's coming. They know what's going to happen to them. I mean, that's like that mental torture, you know? psychological torture just sitting there hearing how it's kind of like remember the uh toy box killer where he would tell them what he was going to do before he did it he just play that tape over and over and then he would tell him too when he was in person i mean it was just like just imagine the amount of fear i mean it's bad enough to in the moment know you're you're about ready to be killed but ahead of time to hear all the different things that are going to happen to you,

that would be so scary. And at the time, they're in the same room, all of them. But Elmer asks Dean if he can take Rhonda into another room. And all of this ends up escalating into Elmer Wayne Henley, getting Dean Coral's gun, pointing it at him and saying, this is too much for me. And Dean doesn't think he's serious. He says, go ahead, you know, shoot me.

I know there's no way you can kill me. At that point, he thinks he's got the upper hand. But Elmer shoots him in the forehead, but the bullet doesn't penetrate his skull. So Elmer shoots him a couple more times, but Coral's still up, and he's trying to run away, and Henley shoots him three times in the back and finally kills him. So you have three teens that you know at this point are freaking out, and they're trying to trying to figure out what they should do. Now, two of these teens were intended victims.

The other teen, Elmer Henley, has been a full participant in a lot of what has gone on. So you can imagine the two want Elmer to call the police. But he has to have some reservations about that. Because what's going to happen to him when all of this comes out? But he eventually does. He calls the police. I woke up and he was clamping handcuffs on me. I was laid on my stomach.

The other two were on their stomach and they were handcuffed and their feet were tied. I can't remember whether he tied my feet afterwards or they were tied when I woke up. I'd torture him if you'd let me go. Was he going to, whether he wants you to kill them then? To begin with, he wanted to kill me. He was mad because I brought the chick over there. I was going to The chick going to run away from home

And I was going to travel with Dean I thought it was safe I didn't know no better So that's Elmer Wayne Henley Being interviewed Not long after Right? All of this

The police come There's reporters He's giving an interview And in there Gibbs He said At the end he says You know I thought it was safe

Yeah I didn't know any better Just didn't know But again At this point he's not admitting to his role, his big role in all of this. So you have to imagine police getting inside of this home. You know, they discover a bedroom that looked like it was designed for torture. Right. We've talked about the torture boards and all that. So this board apparently had handcuffs

attached. There were ropes. There was a large dildo somehow attached to it. I think. think, and there was plastic covering the carpet. So this was a room that was designed, set up for nothing else. Yeah, that was it. Also in the room, they found this big wooden crate with what appeared to be air holes cut into it, almost like where you would keep somebody confined. So Henley tells his story to the cops of what went down. And the items in the the room kind of corroborated his story. But at some point, they become very skeptical of Elmer Wayne Henley. And I don't think it took a whole lot of questioning before he admitted to serving as,

you know, Dean's assistant in getting these kids for him to rape and murder. Now, he's just some boys that he picked up. I helped him get, rather. And he raped him, ended up killing him, brought him down here and buried him. What part did you play in that? I helped him pick them. What part did you play in any of the killing or did you? No comment.

Wayne, this has been going on for some time, hasn't it? A year ago last winter. That's when you got into it. Yes. You know or you think you know that maybe he was involved in this more than a year ago, right? I know. and what way do you know? I was told.

By him? By him. By David Brooks. David Brooks is another person who has been named. Now, what role did he play in all of this? Same as mine. So that's a later interview that he does with reporters after he's already admitted to his role. But for me, Gibbs, what I got from it was just the tone of his, I mean, it was almost like he was resigned to the fact of, you know, number one, he's,

caught. Right. But number two, he talked about it as if it, I don't know, to me, didn't seem like that big a deal. No. I didn't hear a lot of remorse. None. I mean, I think it just kind of reminds me of the, the boy that was talking on the interview two weeks ago. Ortrude. Yeah. One of the Robs kid that did some of the bad stuff. Yeah. It was just kind of, you know, nonchalant, you know, yeah, we got caught, you know. But how I did this and this and this? Yeah. I guess it's kind of a shame now that I think about it, but, you know.

At the time, it seemed like a good idea? Yeah, I just, I don't get it. So over the next few days, Henley kind of spills everything about his part in what Dean Coral had going on. And he would lead police to where many of the victims were buried. And the first location that he took them to was that boat shed that Dean Coral rented in Southwest Houston. For most of Wednesday night, Lawman continued to unearth bodies. All supposedly young boys, early to mid-teens, all had their hands tied, the bodies wrapped in plastic.

Lyme had been poured over the victims to help decompose the bodies. It did a more than adequate job. Bits and pieces of skeletons were removed. time and time again. In some cases, flesh clung to bones like jelly. The stench inside that shed was almost overpowering. Those with weak stomachs stayed out. Just before closing down the digging operations for that night, a lieutenant in the Houston Homicide Division talked about the victims, and he talked about the killers. How would you classify this series of crimes? Just like I said, a while ago, that was a sadistic type of a clown that bullse.

something like this. And do you think most of these victims are young boys? I'm pretty reasonably sure they are. The reports that we have, missing persons are all a bunch of kids, 13, 14, 15 years old. The death side and the grave side itself appears tragic enough, but do you think many of them one another, any torture? Well, when you're fooling with a,

not like this, that's a pervert. You can expect most of anything. You gotta like the good old boy lawman. He just, he doesn't mince words. He just said it. Yeah, he did. When you're dealing with a perverted nut like this, you can expect just about anything. Yeah, right on point, man.

So in the boat shed, they recovered the remains of 17 boys that Dean Coral had murdered. Ten more bodies were found at other burial sites, you know, beaches, some in the woods. So altogether they recovered like 27 bodies. It blows me away, man. In such a, you know, in just a couple of years, that is a lot of boys to go missing. Especially in a very defined geographical location. Yeah. I mean, we're not talking about Tommy Lynn Sells who hopped the, the rail car train system and crisscross the country.

I mean, we're talking about this little area of Houston. You know, as they're exhuming these bodies and they're examining them, you know, they can tell. Some had been shot. Many had been strangled to death. But then they could also see really what type of torture went on. We're talking about some of these boys were castrated. That's absolutely terrible, man. Some had objects inserted into their rectums. Some had glass rods. pushed into their urethras. Wow. I mean... You talk about torture. Yeah. Now, I've heard of that before

where a glass rod is inserted and then you break the glass rod while it's inside there. That's not, man. Yeah. I mean, that'll make you wince just thinking about it. But all of the victims were sodomized. And again, I didn't want to just repeat the same thing

as we talked about every victim. I just figured I would suck. it up towards the end, but just to give you a sense of what each and every one of these victims went through, it was extreme torture. It was extreme sexual assault. These were vicious, vicious crimes. And then on, you know, and on top of that, they were all murdered. But what they went through before the murders was horrific. Monster man. Now, I got one more clip of Henley that that I got to play. Most unusual in that the defendant in the case, Henley,

was the person who actually called the police. And he was the one, the reason he called the police is that he had just shot Dean Carl. Carl, 40-year-old, roughly, I forget the age, but a much older man. And I believe Henley must have gotten scared or saw the handwriting on the wall that he would have been a victim himself.

and the circumstances were such that he just, he shot Carl and called the police. So the reason I like that clip, Gibbs, is I think that gentleman is right. I think Wayne Henley knew at the end that he was about ready to be a victim. Because if you go back to the beginning of his involvement, I think he was designed to be a victim from the very start. Yeah. I think he was selected by day.

David Brooks to be one of Dean Corle's victims. And for whatever reason, Dean saw something in, in Wayne, Elmer, whatever you want to call him, where he thought that this is a person that would do my bidding for me. And it turned out that that was correct. Yeah, he, he was able to judge that one out. But in the end, you know it was just a matter of time to where Dean Coral would get to the point where if he didn't like anything that that Wayne Henley was doing or thought he was heading down a different path. Yeah. He would easily have gotten rid of them.

Yeah. Tortured him, sodomized him and killed him. Absolutely. And I think Henley thought he was at that point. He was probably right. But then you hear him call his mom. And I just thought that was a very interesting phone call to be able to hear him call his mom and say, I've shot Dean.

Right. I did it, Mama. And this is a strange case in the fact that the main perpetrator is killed. So there's not going to be any trial for Dean Coral. What you have left is David Brooks and Wayne Henley to go on trial for their roles. And they do. And it's a very, you know, highly publicized trial. David Brooks ends up being found guilty of one murder. and he gets a sentence of life in prison.

Henley was convicted of six murders and he got six 99 year terms. Okay. The one he wasn't convicted of was killing Dean Coral. Yeah. Because I think they viewed that as self-defense. And it most likely I think it was. I think so too. So he wasn't,

wasn't convicted of that. But I want to go back to Rhonda Williams. Fiancé of one of the victims was taken to the home. a Dean's home that night by Henley. She stayed in contact with Henley throughout the years. You know, talks to him on the phone. I think they write to each other. It was just a tidbit that I kind of found fascinating.

It is fascinating. That she has stayed in contact with him. On the one hand, I think he may have saved her life. I don't even know, may. I think he did save her life. Oh, absolutely he did. So I think she probably feels a bond with him over that.

Now, how you reconcile that versus all the bad things he did, you know, that's, that's for, you know, each person to decide. But most likely I think hers comes out of this bond that like he was her savior that. Right. Yeah. But there was a lot of outcry against the police like we talked about. The Houston Police Department, a lot of people felt like they failed because there were all types of missing persons reports filed by parents of these missing boys that ultimately ended up

being victims of Dean Coral. And it was thought that the Houston police viewed most of these as runaways. But again, I don't want to harp on it, but I go back to the fact that the majority of the boys came from the same area, same neighborhood. It just seems like it's way too much to. overlook as a coincidence. And the fact that most of them were in the same, you know, a similar age range, teens. And then the other thing that was, we touched on one of them, but there was two sets of brothers

that were killed. I mentioned the second. I mentioned both of them, but I didn't, I didn't harp on the fact that the first set were brothers, but they were. Right. So two families lost two sets of kids. Right. To Dean Coral.

One's a nightmare, man. Two. Wow. But then so look at that, right? So are the police thinking that these brothers, two sets of brothers ran off? I mean, you see that. I mean, it's plausible. Yeah.

But add that up with the 20-some other kids that are just in the last couple of years somehow missing from the neighborhood. Right. Well, I can definitely see the issue that the community has with all that. Yeah, I think they were outraged. Yeah. I mean, I get it. But that's it.

That is the case of, uh, Candyman, Dean Coral. The Candyman. And it's such a strange case because it's not a serial killer just acting on his own. No. Which is what you find most of the time. It's the recruitment man that, uh, yeah. He was able to get two teens to do his bidding. It kind of reminds me again of the toy box, you know.

He got some of the females to help him out. Yeah. his daughter. Sure. So torture table. Same thing. There's some similarities. Yeah. Yeah. And he targeted women and Dean Coral targeted younger boys, but there, there are some similarities. Yeah. It's just, I don't know, man. It's just so, so sick. So sick. Well, let's do some voicemails. Maybe that'll clear the palate a little bit. Yeah, let's see. Hi, guys. My name is fellow finer calling from Dallas, Texas. Just contributed to the true crime all a time website. I've been listening to you guys for quite some time. I've currently up to date with

all the true crime all the time shows and catching up on unsolved right now. And also listening to criminology, which is a fantastic show. It's been really interesting the first season. Really enjoyed listening to you guys. You have a fantastic chemistry. And it's been a really fun kind of experience that's got me through a lot of trips to Africa where I have to do a lot of work. Anyway, I do want to reach out and have a request for you on a serial killer. His name is Angel Matrino Resendiz. He was executed in Texas here in late 1990s for crimes spanning over 10 years. It might be an interesting case for you guys to take a look at.

I'd encourage you guys because it's pretty interesting because he was a hobo who rode the trains, and so he struck all over the country, but mostly in Texas. Anyway, something for you guys to think about. Look forward to keep listening to the shows that keep cranking out, and the requisite. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking, guys. Take care. Bye.

So then Philip called back. Hi, guys. Philip Finer. I just left you a voicemail message and calling back because I neglected to mention one important point to my voicemail message,

which is, sorry, Gibby, but got to stand firmly behind Team Furgy. Go Team Furgy. Bye. Wow, Gibbs. I got a Team Fergie. We don't get many of those.

You just had to slide that in there, didn't you? I just had to slide that in. Yeah, I see how you are. But awesome voicemail from Philip. So number one, he sounds like the most interesting man in the world. He does, man.

He's listening to the podcast working over in Africa. Oh, and then he has the tip for us on that case. Right. And my assumption is he's throwing that out there because he wants to hear you say this killer's name because it sounds like it's pretty hard to pronounce. I got it down though. All right. Well, I wrote it down.

So we're going to look into that one. Yeah. Hey, Gibby. Hey, Mike. Emily from Minneapolis. I just wanted to call to say, I stumbled upon your podcast. podcast about a month ago and I have devoured it. So thank you very much for the good content. And job well done, boys. I'm not sure where it came from and I haven't run into the reason why yet,

but keep your own time taken. Have a good day. I love it when we get devoured. I love it too. Yeah. It's like a good cheese steak. Okay. With or without? With. There you go. So, So she brings up, you know, good question that I don't know, we might have covered it on one of the Q&As, but I think she's asking where did the kind of the sign off come from. Yeah. And it's kind of a funny story because I knew when we started the podcast, I wanted to have something at the end. Right. And I had a whole bunch of stuff written down. And I basically gave it to my kids and my wife and said, which one do you think is the best?

and that's the one they picked. Hi Mike and Gibby. This is Lauren from Houston. I hope y'all are doing well. Sorry if it's a little noisy. I'm driving to Austin right now. My best friend just moved there, so I've been doing a lot of traveling.

And as you know, I'm addicted to T-Cats, and I listen to them as soon as they come out. So I don't have anything to listen to on the weekends for my trip. But a couple weeks ago, I just put two and two together that Mike has another. podcast, criminology, and I just wanted to let you know that I love it just as much as I love T-Cat. I don't know how I missed it for so long. I listened to T-Cat on Spotify, and it's not on Spotify, but it's on my Apple Podcast, so that's great. And also wanted to know, do you have

any other friends that are not named Mike, or you just only have friends named Mike? And how come you're the only one that gets to be called Mike and Gibby has to be called Gibby. And then your other one, I think it's for something. I don't know. I forgot because you never really talked to him that much as much as Gibby. But anyway, just loving it. And I hope y'all are doing well and talk to you later. Bye.

So, and then she called back to. Oh, good. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Lauren again. I just left y'all a voicemail, and I forgot the other Mike name from criminology, but his name is Mike Morford. I wanted to acknowledge him because he's just as important, but he goes by more. Sometimes when I call, I black out because I'm so nervous and I forget things, but like I said, he's just as important. All right.

Love y'all. Have a great day. Bye. So awesome voicemail from Lauren. Yes. And she's got a couple of questions in there. A couple of people saying they like criminology, which is awesome. Sure.

I do tend to surround myself with people named Mike. Yeah. And I think you and I made the decision early on that we couldn't both be Mike. That would just be strange. Nobody would know who was who. Yeah, I think you made that decision early. I did. And it worked in your favor because you got the Gibby persona.

Oh, yeah. And it's really taken off. And then I'm just Mike. Is that what it is? That's what it's Mike. All right. But no, great voicemails. We appreciate it.

we appreciate all the support we get we do whether it's patreon paypal all of our friends on social media keep spreading that word telling your friends about true crime all the time we love it all right so that is it for another episode of true crime all the time so for mike and gibby stay safe and keep your own time ticking