True Crime All The Time - Diane and Rachel Staudte

Episode Date: March 11, 2019

Mother and daughter Diane and Rachel Staudte committed two horrific murders and attempted a third. These two women made the decision to poison their family members using antifreeze. They planned the murders, researched the use of antifreeze, and almost go away with it.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss these extremely troubling murders. The decisions they made and the crimes they carried out were horrible. But when you hear from the women themselves, the reasoning they give behind their actions is bone-chilling. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.comSponsors:Audible.com/truecrimeBetterhelp.com/tcattSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 121 of the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime Mike Gibson. Gibby what is going on? How are you? I'm good. I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing great, man. I had a great week. felt really good this week. I'm fired up. We got some good episodes on both T-Cat and Unsault. Yeah, really good episodes and came off some good episodes. Yeah. No, we get some really good feedback about some of the recent episodes. And so I've been very happy. Good. That diet helping too? It's somewhat helping. Yeah. So I did my juicing for a little while, right? What's a little while? Break it down. I did it for about a, I did it good for about a week. I did it off and on for a little bit.

But now I've tapered down. I've kind of stopped that. I'm on to more of the low carb thing again. Low carb high protein or just low carb? Yeah. High protein, low carb, carb, trying that. That, It usually works good for me if I can work out too. And so we'll see. Yeah. Well, I'm hoping for you. You're hoping for me for what? Just hoping for you in general.

I'm hoping for you. I'm hoping for you. Good things. Not that you're rooting for me, not that you're behind me. You're hoping. I'm just hoping for me. Just hoping. I'm a hoper.

You're a hoper. All right, Gibbs. Let's do our Patreon shout out. Let's do it. We had Rachel Vaughn. Oh, hey, thanks. Rachel. John L jumped out at our highest level.

John L. Sarah. Sarah. Cynthia Lorena. Hey, thank you. Munich Mama. Thank you from Germany. It's a cool name.

Yeah. Kelly Duckett. Hey, Kelly. Marietta Tisdale. Ooh, what if she knows? Ashley Tisdell? I don't know. I don't know who that is.

I think it's like a X Disney star or something. That's probably why I don't know who that is. Scott Riley jumped out to a highest level. Hey, Scott. Christina Sykes. Hey, Sykes. That's a good name. Victoria Joquelam-Almgren.

Thank you, Victoria. Mm-hmm. Linda McAllister. Hey, Linda. Susan Bout jumped out at our highest level. Thank you, Susan. As did Jade. Jay, appreciate it.

Nathaniel Bartels. Thank you, Nathaniel. Kira jumped up to our highest level. Man, look at Kira. Outperforming. Melissa Honeycutt. Hey, Melissa. Michelle Tucker.

Michelle. Charlene. Oh, thanks, Charlene. Chelsea Fullop. Fulip. Yep. Terry Sullivan jumped out of our highest level. Hey, thanks, Terry.

Dinellette, Tewell, good. Hey, thanks Danielle. Danelle. What's it, Danielle? Danelle. You're going to keep going with the wrong name, even though I just said it was Danelle. Okay, I'll say Danielle. Why? You're saying there's no I in it. Yeah. Oh, well, thanks, Dannell. You said it like three times. Leanna Jean. Hey, Leanna. And Maggie James. Hey, Megah James. So we appreciate all the new Patreon support. And if we go back into the Volk Gibbs, this week we selected, Lisa Parker.

Hey Lisa. Longtime supporter of the show. Yes, she is. And we appreciate that. And we appreciate all the continued Patreon support as well. We had some great PayPal support. Jessica Metz. Hey, Jessica.

Andrea Throckmorton. Ooh, Throckmorton. Yeah. Christine Hazel. Hey, thanks, Christine. Angela Chosjum. Chosijam. Yeah, I'm not sure.

Chojijijam. In Jean Olivier Philippe. Delipiae gave a sizable donation. Belipia. So we appreciate that. Thank you so much. All right. Gibbs, right now we have an episode out on true crime all time unsolved. Yeah. We're talking about the disappearance of Jennifer Kessie. And this is one of those really baffling cases. Gibbs. We're down in the Orlando area. 2006 is when Jennifer disappears. It's also one of those cases where they have some video surveillance. Yeah. But, you know, it's 2019. We're, we're 13 years on and they've still not been able to find out what happened to her and no arrests have been made. No. But it's a good episode. Make sure you check that out for sure.

All right. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time? Let's do it. Gibby says, let's do it. Let's do it. So that is a good sign. We are talking about the case of Diane and Rachel Stouty. And this is a case that shows.

shakes me to my core. Now, you know, all the people that we talk about, they're scary, right? The murders are scary. There's a lot of things to be scared of, to be worried about when it comes to true crime, the things that we talk about. But Diane Stouty and her daughter, Rachel, they were poisoners. And that's a different kind of scary to me. Frikes me out, man. It does. It's, it's very disconcerting. I remember back when we did the Tylenol killings on Unsolved. And to this day, that's been like two years since we've done that episode. To this day, I still think about it in the morning when I'm taking my daily pills. Yeah.

That somebody somehow could possibly mess with my pills. Easily. I guess to me, Gibbs, there's just something about this type of case. You know, for one thing, I think we're very vulnerable when it comes to our food and drink. Well, of course we are. I mean, it's why when we get things in the mail, you always give me some to try. And I notice you won't eat any of it or try any of it until the next week if I show up. Well, I want to give you at least four or five, six days. Yeah.

Because, you know, sometimes these are slow acting. I don't know. Sometimes the symptoms don't show up for a while. Sometimes you call me middle of the week because I'm like, man, this is really good jerky, man. And I can tell you want some, but you're not, you're scared. And then you're like, Wednesday, you're like, hey, you're feeling all right. I got to let it go at least three or four days. Yeah. But it's good. It's good to have a tester.

Sure. And it's nice that you've agreed to do that for me. Well, you know. But I do think we're vulnerable. You think about going to a restaurant. Oh, yeah. somebody for whatever reason has it in for you or they just decide that whatever that night they want to mess with someone people i mean you think about that movie uh here we go yeah with a funny guy in it oh you mean the funny guy what's his name because there's only been one in the history of cinema oh uh not ryan gosling but the other ryan reynolds oh i i like ryan reynolds he was in that movie where he played a waiter okay and jennifer anniston

was in it too. She worked at the other restaurant. No clue. No, anyway. Oh, it was called waiting. That's what it was. Wait? Yeah, waiting. But they would like mess with people's food. Oh, yeah. All the time. But you hear horror stories all the time. You know, somebody wanted extra garlic seasoning. The guy took his fingernails to his scalp and got all the dandruff flakes on it. Oh. And that is the reason. The number one reason why I don't give waiters and waitresses a very hard time. I don't send a lot of food back. I try not to be,

I try not to draw any attention to myself that would welcome any type of retribution. Yeah. I don't need that in my life. But then your wife sends everything back and you're like, oh, no. Hey, if she wants to do that, that's on her. Yeah, just make sure my food's out first.

But you're right. I was reading a story before where there was a guy that he would poison the coffee that all his other coworkers would drink. You know, just go there in the morning and make a pot of coffee, poison it. They would drink the coffee, and they couldn't figure out why they were all getting sick. I don't have that problem anymore because I'm the only one that drinks coffee in my house.

Yeah. I did about kill somebody one time when I cleaned out the, you know, those big water jugs, dispensers. Oh, yeah. Well, it had some type of growth or something at the office I was in, so I took it off and wanted to clean it out. I thought it was nasty. So I took off the jug and I poured about a half a gallon of bleach. in it and let it sit. And then I ran the bleach out

and then put the thing back on. But I didn't run any water through it. And then poor guy came along and got a full glass of a little bit of bleach residue and the water and drank it and felt burn his throat up. And it was not good.

That's not good. We made up later. We're back to buddies again. Right. So let's talk about Diane and Mark Stouty. They met in college. They married in 1985. went on to have four children.

Their son, Sean, was born just six months after they married. Diane was a clinical supervisor at United Healthcare. She played to Oregon at her church. Mark was a stay-at-home dad. He played in a band. A lot of people said that music was Mark's passion, along with his family. They said he was a very devoted father and family man. The Stouties lived in Springfield, Missouri.

There's not going to be a lot of background in this story, right? We are jumping all the way to 2012. Mark's 61 years old. Diane's 51. They've been married for roughly 26, 27 years. A long haul? Yeah. You know, they have their four children.

I don't know, Gibbs. I always think like, man, once you make it to like the quarter century mark, seems like it should be smooth sailing from there. You'd think. But it's not always the case. No. So let's talk a little bit about their, children. By this point, Sean was 26 years old and he had a mild form of autism. Sarah was 24.

She had graduated from college with her degree, but she was having a tough time finding a job. Like a lot of recent graduates. Yeah. A lot of recent graduates have had a tough time finding a job. Rachel was 22 and was attending college at Missouri State University. She was, was a gifted student straight a student she was a gifted artist oh kind of like uh very much like yourself myself sure Rachel had a lot going for her and the couple also had an 11 year old daughter so there for a while they had a child about every two years then they waited 11 years and had their fourth so that seems like the perfect family it's like the all-American family man sure and i think to many people they were viewed as an all-American

type family, but we know sometimes there are things lurking beneath the surface that maybe only those inside the family know about. Oh, we know. Everybody's got their secrets. And if we all knew, just think about the office. If you knew the secrets of everybody that worked in that office, you wouldn't be able to come to work. No.

You wouldn't be able to look half those people in the eyes. We'll be able to get out of my car. I'd be like, I can't do it. No. If I knew the skeletons you had, I wouldn't be able to walk in here. You wouldn't be able to sit here in my basement. I get nervous every time I walk past that one closet. But sometimes not even everyone in the family knows that trouble is brewing.

And that's definitely the situation in this case. As only two members of the family knew that things were about to turn deadly. Yeah, that stuff always bugs me, right? because you should always feel safe, secure in your own house with your family around you, right? That's the spot you should be able to lay on the couch, close your eyes, take a little nap, not worry about anything. Yeah, I think every time you and I discuss a case of family on family violence, whether it's, you know, a parent against the kids, whether it's kids against the parents, we talk about that,

right? This is like your sanctuary, your home. This is where everybody should feel safe. On April 8th, 2012, which happened to be Easter Sunday, a police officer responded to the Stouty home on a report of a deceased person. It turned out to be 61 year old Mark Stouty. And things didn't seem right from Jump Street here, Gibbs. Mark's wife, Diane, said that he had not been feeling well for several days and had

been complaining of flu-like symptoms. He'd been weak. He hadn't been eating. He'd been sleeping way more than normal over the past couple of days. So Diane told police that she had been checking on Mark, right? Several times on the day he died. Every time she checked on him, he was unresponsive, barely able to speak. She also said that she believed he suffered three different seizures that day, something that he had no history of. And Diane stated that the last of the seizures occurred just about 45 minutes before she found him dead. Police asked her why she didn't call 911, why she didn't take Mark to the hospital. Exactly. She told them that Mark said he didn't want to go to the hospital. Something's a little hinky here, right? Yeah, it's like your eyebrows are raising.

and they should be. I mean, you know, my wife, any loving wife would have sounded the alarm bells on this thing very early on. Right? If I have no history of seizures and all of a sudden I have three seizures,

I'm unresponsive in any way. Yeah, there's an ambulance on the way. My ass would have been in the back of an ambulance because my wife would have insisted. She would have made the call and they would have, you know, taking me out of there. And let's not forget the fact that Diane worked in the healthcare industry. She was a nurse. That's the more alarming thing for me. Right. I mean, this is not someone with zero

background or training in the medical field. My mom's a nurse. I've talked about it before on the podcast. She is on me in an instant if she thinks I'm dragging my feet about going to the doctor or going to the emergency room if she feels that either one of those is warranted. Yeah, she'll be right on top of you. She'll just keep calling me, asking me if I've gone yet. I think she's shown up at the house before. She has. Yeah.

So I think everybody listening is going to think, okay, that something's not right here. Now, the medical examiner eventually ruled that Mark's death was due to natural causes. But Diane quickly made the decision to have Mark cremated. And she went through with it, you know, fairly quickly after his death. Yeah. The problem is what no one knows yet was that Diane and her daughter, Rachel, had conspired to murder Mark by putting antifreeze into his gatorade.

Well, that makes sense on why she'd want him cremated? Yep. As fast as possible. She doesn't want anybody to get a chance to find out that he has antifreeze in a system. But the thing about this for me, Gibbs, is, I mean, it was not a spur of the moment thing. This is something that they had planned. They had researched how to poison someone with antifreeze on the internet. They chose anaphrase specifically because they thought it would be difficult for medical examiners to detect.

And it is. You know, I think that's true. I don't think it's routine to check for. antifreeze and a autopsy. Yeah, I don't think it's something they have on the checklist when they're doing an autopsy. Now, you're right. Actually, somewhere in the research, I did read something from a professional that said it's, it's not routine to, you know, check for that.

I would think it would be hard to disguise the taste of some antifreeze, though. I don't know if it is that hard. You know, anaphrase has kind of a sweet taste to it. Well, at least it did. about later some changes that they made to antifreeze to try to keep some of this stuff from happening. But the other thing was they didn't just go out to the garage and use like a basic press stone, right? Your basic antifreeze that you would find in the garage. They actually went on the internet and ordered a special variety of antifreeze.

I did, I read one thing that said it was tasteless. I'd be using that mobile home antifreeze. Special mobile home. Now, after her husband's death, Diane took to Facebook, as many people do, right, in the wake of a tragedy, you look for support. You look from friends, you look from family. And much of that, I believe these days, Gibbs, comes from your online community. Yeah, I believe that. I mean, we see that in some of our own T-Cat groups, you know, where people support each other when they're going through a little rough time in their life.

Yeah, we see it a lot. Diane posted, let not your hearts be troubled, believe in God and believe also in me. Over all the hilltops is calm. In all the treetops, you feel hardly a breath of air. The little birds fall silent in the woods. Just wait. Soon you'll also be at rest. I don't really know what any of that means, but that's what she posted on Facebook.

And Facebook is going to be a big part of this case. We're going to be talking about Facebook quite a bit. I've heard about this Facebook thing. You've heard about it? Yeah. It's a big deal now. Yeah, I guess it's. That Zuckerberg guy.

He really, uh, yeah. I mean, I knew about him in that movie he did, but, you know. You just didn't know, it was a real thing. Yeah. You know, when something like this happens, people come out with an unbelievable amount of support. People are really great about supporting their friends, their families. You mentioned it. You know, we've seen people in our T-Cat groups when a member has lost a loved one.

or even a beloved family pet. The outpouring of love and support is amazing. But most people that knew Diane, they weren't sure what to make of her action. Many said they were shocked by what they perceived to be her lack of emotions over her husband's death. So they held a memorial for Mark. And the band that he was in played at the memorial.

But even at this memorial, people said, something wasn't right about Diane. They said she was flitting around, talking, laughing with people. It was almost like she was holding this big gala ball and she was the chairperson. Just flitting around? You want to use the word flitting? I did.

Just making sure that everybody was having a good time. Now, everybody deals with grief in their own way. You and I have talked about that in the past. but many people felt her actions that day were extremely odd. They thought she seemed happy. Well, she shouldn't have been out there flitting, but...

I know, there's too much flitting going on as it is. So Diane took Mark's life insurance. It wasn't a whole lot of money, but she got some money. It was enough. It was enough. She sold the family house that they had been living in,

and she bought a bigger one. I think a lot of people would look at that and say, I think it would be very tough to continue to live in the house where your spouse died. You know, the memories, you're, you're thinking about them every time you walk through this room, that room. But we know Diane didn't have a problem with that. Maybe she wanted a change of scenery, but she definitely traded up to a bigger house in a better part of town.

That's one thing I didn't talk about early on, right? It was her and Mark. They had four kids all living under the same roof. And what was said to be a pretty small three bedroom house. But the thing is, there was about ready to be a death in this new house as well. Because tragedy struck the Stouty family again in September of that same year. So we're just about five months after Mark died. Police were called to this house.

because Sean had stopped breathing. Again, Diane told police that Sean had not been feeling well for a few days, maybe even a few weeks, though, Gibbs is what it turns out it could have been. He had been experiencing flu-like symptoms. So aches, pains, nausea, diarrhea, or for me, what is a Friday night. That's what I call Friday night. It's like your norm. Yeah.

norm. But Diane had been checking on Sean the night before, but she didn't see him the next day until she returned from church. It was around 1230. And when she got home, she found Sean crulled up on the floor. He was not breathing and he didn't have a pulse. This is what she told police. So this is the very well-trained nurse. Yes. That knew her son was not feeling good and had all those symptoms but got up the next morning didn't check on him no rolled out her bed said eh I'm gonna hang around the house for a little bit I'm gonna go to go to church now I gotta play the organ got to do that she's the organ that's right and then when I get home I'll see how he's doing I don't want to disturb him yeah so essentially time wise it could have easily been what 12 13 14 hours sure since she had

checked on Sean but the other thing that she told police was that Sean had a history of seizures and in fact had had one just a few days before his death. So it's just so eerily similar, right? The deaths of Mark and Sean five months apart, flu-like symptoms, seizures, stopped breathing, and then they're dead. Definitely nothing to be flitting about. No, not at all.

But this time the medical examiner ruled that Sean's death resulted from prior medical issues. But I think the key here Gibbs is that it was ruled a death due to natural causes. There was no foul play at all. So if there is insurance money, it's not going to stop the payout. Yeah. Foul play is not even in the picture on either one of these. And again, Diane sprung quickly into action, making sure that Sean was cremated. But it wasn't long after Sean's death that police received their first tip, indicating that Diane had poisoned both Mark and Sean. But like we talked about, the medical examiner had ruled both deaths as due to natural causes. So really, there was no homicide to investigate. This would come back to haunt police the next year, because we know,

the police don't know, but we know Diane and Rachel had struck again. Yeah, they did. It pulled off another. This time they laced Sean's Coca-Cola with antifreeze. Man, a McDonald's Coca-Cola. There isn't, there's not much better. No, something about the McDonald's Coke, man. I think they get a little something in that, too. Not anaphrase, but they put something in it. They put something in it.

Yeah. Maybe a little crack or something. It's good. McDonald's Coke is really good. Yeah. But the antifree's in the Coke caused him to die. Diane was on Facebook quite a bit after her husband, Mark's death. But according to reports, there was not a single post about Sean's death on her

Facebook page until about three weeks after it happened. And when she did finally post, she posted, today we remember Sean's life. May we have a portion of the piece he now enjoys. So this is a very interesting statement. Once we know Diane's reasoning behind one her son dead. So you'll have to keep it in the back of your mind until we get to that point. Yeah, but still just hearing that statement, it's kind of eerie. She did a lot of things that were strange. I mean, there's just no doubt about it.

This is aside from the poisoning, just the way she acted was strange. Sons in heaven and heaven peace, but let me snatch some of that piece away from them. I don't know. Just a month after Sean's death, his sister Rachel made this post on Facebook. Don't think I've ever seen mom so chilled out like this in a long time. What the hell? You've lost your husband. You've lost your oldest son.

And this is the most chill you've been in a long time. Yeah, man. I'm relaxed. Most people would be heavily medicated. Something like that happens so fast back to back like it did. I mean, people will be drinking. Five months to have to lose. two people like that.

It's stressful, man. You'd be losing your losing, well, you wouldn't know any about it. Some people lose their hair when they get stressed out. Oh, yeah. But does that what happened? I still do. You do? It's just not as, it's like one strand. Oh. Here and there. Yeah. You only have three. So if I lose one, that's 33%. I'm going to say, let me do the math for you. But I think everybody gets it, right? There, there's some strange behavior. A lot of it is happening on social media. All right, Gibbs. Gives, let's take a quick, to talk about our sponsor, BetterHelp. If anyone out there has anything that's interfering with their happiness or is preventing them from achieving their goals, Better Help, online counseling is

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motivation, mysteries, so much more. They have the largest selection of audiobooks on the planet. And now with Audible originals, the selection has gotten even more custom with content made for members. I've even turned my daughters on to Audible. They're both listening to this audio book called A Sucky Love Story, Overcoming Unhappily Ever After. It's written by Brittany Louise Taylor, a YouTuber that my daughter's both liked. They had never listened to an audio book before, and they love it. They can listen on their iPhone, their iPad, their Chromebook.

They can listen anywhere. And Audible allows you easy audiobook exchanges, rollover credits, and a audiobook library that you can keep forever, even if you canceled. So get started today by going to audible.com slash true crime or text true crime to 500,500. That's audible.com slash true crime or text true crime to 500 500. If you haven't tried audiobooks, you'll love them just like you do your podcast. Then we fast forward to June 2013. Diane's daughter, Sarah, this is her oldest daughter, became extremely ill and was taken to the hospital. doctors ran all kinds of tests for different types of things they couldn't figure out what was wrong with her

but she was very very sick one doctor finally said you know what i think she's been poisoned because nothing else that we've done has checked out it got worse you know sarah was in very serious condition she was fighting for her life she ended up spending over a month in the hospital but she survived the poisoning. Yeah, but she sure did suffer some. Oh, she really did. She suffered some physical injuries, but probably the most impactful was that she, she suffered some significant brain injuries as well.

And they were quite severe. Well, we'll talk about them a little bit later on. But there are some clues in Diane's Facebook activity here, once again. I'm convinced, Gibb, Facebook will get you. That's why I stay off all that social media stuff. Oh, shit. You are on it as much as anybody can humanly be. It looks like I'm on it, but I'm not on it. You got a bot that does all of your inspirational quotes and memes and sweet stuff, man. So apparently, Diane made a lot of posts about her daughter, Rachel. Rachel was the 22-year-old. And she made a lot of posts about her youngest daughter that was, you know, like 11.

Very little at all was ever posted about her daughter, Sarah, her oldest daughter at 24, in the time between Mark's death and the time when Sarah was poisoned. So if you think people can't tell a little something about your Facebook posts, guess again. It's not only what you post. It's what you don't post about. Oh, that's true. I never thought about that, really. Yeah.

Yeah, I remember, oh, it was years ago, but I posted something about my daughter, you know. It was like Daughter Day or, you know, one of those made-up holidays. But I posted something, you know. I don't think it's a holiday, is it? I don't know, you know, but it's one of those, yeah. And I posted something about her and somebody said, you know, don't forget about your other kids. I was like, well, I just just posted something about my daughter. Well, it wasn't take your other kids to work day.

though, was it? No. I wouldn't just take one and leave the other behind again. I did it one time, man. One time. One time. No. But no, I mean, people definitely look at things, you know.

Well, probably after the fact, like we're doing now. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Analyze it. You probably don't think about it much just in your normal course of social mediaing. My mom was like, what? Can I make that a verb? You can.

I would. And my mom's like, why are you always talking about that other person's lasagna. I thought I made the best of the Oh, you don't want to get on mom's bad side when it comes to lasagna. Well, then she'd probably if she ever listened to the podcast, she'd probably hear how I talked about the burnt food. You did. You haven't, you haven't

badmouthed your mom in a while. But early on... I did feel bad. I think you... But she did burn a lot. She burnt some stuff, man. I can't, you know, I'm just saying. Nobody's perfect. No. Hey, she didn't poison you with anaphrase. No. So... Just would, you know, some burnt

corners. Just count yourself lucky. Yeah. Now, just after Sarah was sent to the hospital, police received an anonymous tip from a caller who said that he believed Diane murdered both her husband and her son and was also convinced that she had something to do with the poisoning of Sarah. The anonymous tipster turned out to be the pastor at Diane's church. And I mentioned it, right? She was the organist at the church. I think the pastor was very suspicious. after Mark and Sean died so close together. And, kids, I don't know how anybody couldn't have been somewhat suspicious. Yeah, I don't understand that either, knowing that, that history there, that the first one,

okay, the second one, I've been like, hmm, something's strange. He's a 26-year-old kid. Yeah, that just seems strange. That just all of a sudden dies from flu-like symptoms right after his dad did. But when the detective spoke with the pastor, he said it was really. Diane's lack of emotion over the deaths of her husband and her son that really started to worry him. And again, he decided to come forward after Sarah was hospitalized because Diane didn't even tell him about it. So he's the pastor at the church.

She's the organist. Her daughter is in the hospital fighting for her life. And she doesn't even mention it to the pastor. Which is strange. Very strange. He ends up finding out about it from another member of the church. Because you would think you'd want him to give some kind of prayer vigil. Some counseling, some guidance, some whatever, whatever you want to call it.

So right now police are suspicious of Diane. This is the second tip they've had. The first tip, they really paid no attention to. They went to the hospital to interview staff who were taking care of Sarah. staff didn't have great things to say about Diane. They said she acted very strangely when she came to see Sarah. It was as if she had no concern whatsoever about her daughter. In fact, one person said they saw her laughing, joking around.

Maybe she was flitting a little bit. I don't know. They also told police that Diane said she was going on a scheduled vacation. next week. And nothing was going to stop her. Even the condition of her daughter. This is cold. What mother does that?

I mean, my daughter's fighting for her life, but you know what? I got this trip to Florida plan. I gotta go. I can't put that off, can I? I mean,

Mickey's waiting. Donald, goofy. It just, none of it makes any sense. You know, one thing is for certain. The police are

beginning to really zero in on Diane Stouty. I mean, you got, you have the tips, but then you've just got some really strange behavior. Something's not right with this woman. Everything that police have been hearing is telling them that. And it was about a week later that police brought Diane in for questioning. It was said to have been about a four hour session. And at first, Diane came up with a story about, what she believed happened.

It really short and sweet. I knew they were drinking antifree. And I was so mad at them. I didn't want to take them in. So this is her initial story. She was aware that three members of her family were drinking antifreeze. And because they were drinking anaphrase, she was so upset with them.

She didn't want to take them to the hospital. I'm not going to take you to hospital. I'm not going to pour the antifreeze out so you don't keep going out. there and drinking it. I'm going to show you. Yeah, I'll show you. Then she said, I'll buy some more.

Is that stupid of me? Yeah. Is that frowned upon? Yeah. Is that not okay? Should I have not done that? I guess I'm a crummy mom. Yeah, she doesn't really sound believable.

Yeah. I'm no human lie detector test, but it doesn't sound great to me. I mean, I've had kids lie better to me, better to me than that. Well, and to say, you know, that about your daughter. Your daughter is fighting for her life. And you're essentially saying that she's trying to end her life by drinking anaphrase. But Gibbs eventually police wore Diane down. And she admitted to fatally poisoning both her husband Mark and her son Sean with the antifreeze.

She also admitted that she poisoned her daughter, Sarah. And that's the reason that she had been hospitalized. but she did not implicate her daughter, Rachel. Just a lot of arguments. Both Sean and Sarah would just basically trash the house. They would do whatever they wanted to do and never helped support or, you know, contribute. When did you start with Mark? I didn't.

I don't think I did it on Mark. You've got to be honest about everything again. and let's not keep going over this, because we're just when I feel you're finally starting to do the right thing. You've got to be honest with me about everything. When did you start with Mark? A couple days before. Okay.

And then Sean, how did stuff get started with Sean? Sean would be interfering with whatever I would do to a point where he was getting into my work. And I would have to tell him, you need to leave. you know, go to your room, go do something. You would just, how can I explain this? You get to the point where you just pull out your hair because I didn't know what else to do with him. I don't even know what to say, Gibbs.

I feel like she's like the most selfish person ever. Well, what she is describing, right, in her son and daughter is I think what most of most of us experience on a daily basis with our kids. I mean, sometimes they're, they're selfish. They don't pick up their shit. Yeah.

They don't do everything that you want them to do. They bother you sometimes. Yeah, they're never going to be exactly how you want them to be. No. This is to me, it's, you decided to have kids,

right? She decided to have kids. I assume so. You know, that's usually how that goes. But after the, after one, then she definitely decided it.

So anyway, she doesn't get the right to take them out because they're not doing everything she wants them to do. So I kind of talked about it in the beginning. I didn't want to give too much away. But Rachel's the golden child, right? Rachel's the straight-A student. Rachel is the gifted artist. She's the one that is close to her mother, does not annoy her mother, is doing everything that

Diane wants her to do. Diane sees Sean and Sarah as, you know what, they're, they're just in the way. They're just in my way. You know, she talks to police about she didn't know what else to do. She was trapped in an unhappy marriage and unhappy life. So she began looking for a way out. She hit the internet to do some light reading Gibbs on how to kill someone with antifreeze. Just imagine the moment that you make that decision that you're going to go out and Google that. And not because you're doing a point. podcast either. Right. I mean, you and I have some pretty crazy stuff on our search history, but she's making the decision to do this with her daughter, Rachel. They're doing it together. She hasn't admitted to that yet, but that's what happened. I mean, the hatred that you had to have for somebody to even think about looking that up. And she would say that. She hated Mark. Hated his guts, I think is what her exact quote was. But, Then you get to Sean and Sarah, and it didn't seem like hate.

It seemed more like annoyance. At one point during the interview with police, Diane said, I'm not a perpetual killer. I'm just stupid. I regret doing it. I really do. I've screwed up everybody. I've screwed up my whole family. And the understatement of the year award goes to Diane Stouty.

Yeah. I, you know, it's just, what a bullshit response. It is. I mean, it really is. She said it multiple times. I'm a crummy mom. I'm stupid. I think that pisses me off more than anything.

It's the fact that she's so nonchalant about, she's actually just like toying. Like, yeah, I'm a stupid mom. Yeah. I'm an idiot. I should have known. What was I thinking? I don't know why I did what I did. Oh, well.

It's done. It is what it is. So Diane was charged with two counts of first degree murder and one count of first degree assault the next day. She had admitted to her role in the murders. The prosecutors were going to seek the death penalty. Now, the day her mother was charged, police also questioned Rachel, but she denied knowing anything about the murders or the poisoning of her sister. And remember, Diane did not implicate her in. her confession, but the very next day, June 22nd, police interviewed Rachel again at length.

And they confronted her with some information. And this time, she did confess to her involvement in all three poisonings. So how are you guys getting her the drinks without her knowing about it? She's on the computer a lot, on YouTube a lot, on sites like that a lot. And she's easily distracted. It wouldn't take much to, like, get whatever drink she did have and just slip it real quick. Is that what you did?

Yeah. So describe that to me though. You said she'd be on a computer distracted. Take her drink, dump a little out, put stuff in, put it back next to her. When you say put stuff back in, what were you putting back in there? The ad, I'd like to know why you guys eventually took, you know, when Sarah got so bad, I know you guys said you thought that she was pretty much dead, but why did you take her to the hospital?

I didn't want another one to die in the house. And why is that? Because houses are nasty after somebody's died in it. Did you think that eventually after everybody dying off in similar ways? off in similar ways that we might show up to talk to you guys or were you guys pretty confident? Didn't really think I would get caught. Stupid now that I think on it. Did she just laugh?

Yeah. She just laughed. Yeah. You talk about nonchalant with Diane. You can't be any more nonchalant when talking about murdering people than Rachel was. Yeah. She essentially admitted that. her sister Sarah was about ready to die.

She didn't want another one to die in the house. And that's the only reason that they took her to the hospital. Yeah. Otherwise, she would have been gone. That should scare anyone. That just that part of the interview alone, that someone can be that flippant about that type of activity. And she really didn't care.

No. It was like putting a TV dinner in the microwave, man. It's simple for her. But really, when you look at it, it is the way that both mother and daughter try to explain their reasons behind what they did. Diane said that she just hated Mark's guts. We talked about that. She said Sean was always in her way.

She couldn't get any work done with him around. She said the reasoning for Sarah was because she was unemployed. She couldn't find a job. She wasn't bringing in money to help with bills around the house. Damn. So if you're living with your parents right now, you better have a J.O.B. Go get that job, man. That's all I'm saying. Just don't be drinking anything. And then when Rachel talked about her reasonings, her quote was, as far as dad, it was for a little piece. Sean, because he was annoying. Just annoying. Just annoying.

Sarah was just nosy. Oh, yeah. Quit asking me questions. They're all poisoning you. She has to die. She's too nosy. If you can't handle that, you definitely won't be able to handle the world world. Are you kidding me? Did you say the real world? The real world. You know, when she's out around.

Sound like you said werewolf. The werewolves. Can't handle the werewolf. Well, I mean, werewolves are pretty tough. I wouldn't, let's don't even get into the werewolves, man. Jacob and all those guys, they're good, good kids. Rachel was charged with two counts of first degree murder, but there was not going to be a lengthy, drawn-out trial for either.

either Diane or Rachel. You know what I would do? Oh, it's hard telling. Something messy and probably something illegal. I would bring in a gallon of antifreeze and whatever that is, like two quarts of Gatorade and say, here you go. You have to drink it? It's all you're going to get to drink.

Well, now you sound like the guy from seven. Either do this or do this and live or die. There you go. No, it doesn't make sense because if you drank it, you'd die anyway. I don't know. Either way, you're going to die. You're going to die. You're going to die exactly what the hell they died. In 2015, Rachel made a deal with prosecutors. She pleaded guilty to two counts of second degree murder.

Remember, she was charged with two counts of first degree. So she pleaded down, two counts of second degree murder, one count of armed criminal action, and one count of first degree assault. Now, in addition to that, she had to agree to testify against her mother at trial. The prosecutor in the case read a line from a poem that was found in Rachel's purse when she was arrested. And the poem ended with only the quiet ones will be left, my mother, my little sister, and me.

That's pretty chilling. Yeah. Knowing what the two people that died and the third person that was men, to have dot. It also seems very dumb to me to carry something like that around in your purse. Well, she wasn't the smartest of the bunch. She was, though. What's scary? She was supposed to have been straight a student.

She was acting differently. None of them seemed that smart. I can tell you, neither one of them. Rachel was given two life sentences for the two murders and 20 years for poisoning her sister. She will not be eligible for parole until she has served 42 years in prison. She'll be about where her dad was when she took her dad's life. Yeah, probably just a little bit older than how old her dad. She'll be in her 60s if she were to get out at the first opportunity, which I think in 40 years, not quite that long now, but all they have to do is go back and listen to her interview. That should be enough probably to keep her.

prison. Something is not right with her. She'll probably show her true colors why she's in prison too, though. She'll probably get some extended time. A Rachel would never have to testify against her mom. I said there was there was not going to be trials because in 2016, did take a while, right? They were arrested in 2013. It wasn't until 2016 that Diane Stouty struck a plea agreement that spared her the death penalty. She pleaded guilty to one count of first degree murder in the death of her son Sean, one count of second degree murder in the death of her husband Mark, and one count of first degree assault for poisoning her daughter, Sarah. But she ended up Gibbs with three life sentences

and no possibility for parole. The prosecutors came out and said, you know what, their main goal was to insured that Diane spent the rest of her life in prison. I think they were trying to explain why they were willing to enter into this, allow her to enter into this plea agreement. I'm sure there were a lot of people that thought she should have been given the death penalty. But they went on to say by allowing her to enter into the plea agreement, it eliminated all of the appeals, right, that would have followed for years, for years. for years and years and years after her conviction by a jury.

And those appeals would have been even more numerous if she had received the death penalty. It would have taken forever to get to that date if it ever got there. So I'm actually totally fine with it. Yeah. Totally fine with it. No chance of ever getting out. She has to sit in prison every day, hopefully, and think about. what she did in a bad light. Well, yeah, and all those things that annoyed her by all those people,

now she's got all those other people around her every day that are probably annoying her even greater and she can't escape it. She's got to hear it. We can only hope. I hope so. I hope she's annoyed every day. Yep. But we can't forget about Sarah, right? Sarah survived, but she was never the same. She'll never be the same. She actually stood up in court at her mom's hearing and read a statement. And it said, I forgive mom for what she did to me. Not only she took away my dad and brother, she also took away my livelihood and my independence. I prefer to be a survivor than a victim. And I'm reading that verbatim. And I'm doing that for a reason. If you hear, Sarah stand up in court, you get a real sense of exactly what Diane and Rachel did to her,

what these brain injuries have done to Sarah. They have been extremely debilitating. That's tough, man. Forgiveness is probably the hardest thing to ever do, man. And she's willing to forgive. That's tough. Well, on top of that, so she survived the, poisoning by her mother and sister. She did suffer some permanent injuries and brain damage because of it,

but then you think about the fact that she lost nearly her entire family. With the exception of her younger sister, but her younger sister was way too young to care for her. Sarah had to have a guardian and she will have to live in an assisted living facility for the rest of her life. She cannot take care of herself. Yeah, it's rough. I think she's amazing. You know, when you talk about her outlook after going through what she went through, they interviewed her outside the courthouse after her mom pleaded guilty. And Sarah said she felt relieved.

She said that she had forgiven her mother very quickly after learning what she had done. And she was quoted to saying, I am a Christian and I believe. believe forgiveness is the only way to go. And I think you just mentioned it. That's, that's very strong. It's tough. It's really tough. I think she's way stronger than I am. Oh, me too. I mean, I just don't believe that I would have the strength to forgive that way. It's hard. It'd be really hard to forgive on that level. I would like to think I would. Yeah. But deep down, I'm not sure I I would be able to. I know they say forgive, never forget, but.

I thought they said forgive and forget. I think it's forgive and never forget. I have a hard time doing both. You think you can remember, so it doesn't happen to you ever again, but you forgive. Yeah, I have a hard time with both. Yeah, I do too. Well, if you can't forgive, you sure aren't going to forget. No, it's a character flaw I have.

I think a lot of people have that. Now, Sarah hopes in the future to raise awareness of antifreeze poisoning. And we mentioned it right off the bat. It's a scary proposition. You know, the harmful part of antifreeze is ethylene glycol, which has no odor. Normally it has a sweet taste, I think in its normal form. Unfortunately, that made it perfect for Diane and Rachel to put into Mark's Gatorade and Sean's Coke. And like I said, it's possible that they even have to, a version that was not sweet, almost tasteless. But regular antifreeze, you know, I think it's why you've heard of so many animals over the years dying from licking up some of that stuff on the ground,

whether it's in a garage, whether it was spilled outside. According to the Humane Society of the U.S., as many as 90,000 pets and wild animals each year are poisoned by antifreeze. Now, these might be older stats gives because I know within the last so many years, many manufacturers have started adding something that makes their antifreeze taste really bitter. No one or no animals would would ever want to drink it. You'd know right away. And I think a lot of states have passed some legislation requiring this. I think that's all a good thing. The symptoms of antifreeze poisoning, as we mentioned, it can be very similar to many very common illnesses.

You know, diarrhea, nausea, vomiting. That's a flu. That's a, you name it. It's a food poisoning. Your morning routine. That's a Thursday morning for me. But the one thing I did read is that within the first 12 hours of ingesting it, someone may act as though they were a little drunk,

but it's a pretty slow acting poison. Even with a high dose, symptoms can take up to four. 48 hours to appear. So we didn't talk a whole lot about the youngest daughter. We didn't give out her name. I didn't feel like it was necessary. She was placed into foster care. She essentially had no family.

Yeah, this grew up her life too. Yeah, her one surviving sister can't take care of her, can't take care of herself. There's really not a single person in this family Gibbs that was not harmed by the actions of these two evil women. You know, Mark and Sean both lost their lives. Sarah was permanently disabled, unable to care for herself. The youngest was put into foster care. And the two women who perpetrated it all were wound up in prison.

The mom's never getting out. And Rachel will be about ready to collect social security, even if she gets out at her first eligibility. Yeah. She won't get out. You talk about it's just sad all the way around. destroyed so many lives right there. For what? I still can't figure out what.

Because they were too lazy to do anything but try to kill these people. They could have just said, hey, I'm not happy being married to you. I'm not happy being your mom. I'm leaving. Why don't she just leave? Why couldn't she just leave? If you don't like who you're with, pick your ass up, walk out the front door, go get yourself an apartment or something.

But don't be staying there trying to kill somebody. because you ain't happy. I think that's very sage advice for everyone listening, Gibbs. Crazy. I think everyone should heed your advice. Yes. So we've talked a lot about Facebook,

and I couldn't help myself. I had to go out and see if the accounts of the two women are still out there. Oh. And they are. Really? Yeah. Okay.

So I spent quite a bit of time going through the Facebook accounts of these two women. Tell me we're not friends with them. Well, tell me they're not team Gibby. Let me get, let me get there. So Rachel still has 43 friends on Facebook. Diane has 224.

What the heck? It's a lot. I didn't have any friends in common with either of the women. But with Diane, I did have a two Kevin Bacon like one degrees of separation. Really? So there are some people, I think, right now listening to this podcast, to this episode. I'm thinking that live out in the Springfield, Missouri area that have a friend in common with Diane Stouty.

How about that? And then by association, they're friends with me. And because I'm friends with you. You're probably friends with them too. Now I'm friends with them too. You were probably friends with Diane because you're friends with everybody. I don't have no control over that. You don't?

No. Are you on an auto-accept? Yeah. Autobot accept. But I didn't stop there, right? I had to go through some of the posts. I also looked at all the pictures because I'm nosy like that. I found a post from Diane to Rachel.

This was on Rachel's page, May 5th, 2013. This is one month before they poisoned Sarah. So it's a picture of a cat. The cat is wearing a sombrero. There's a bottle of Jose Cuervo on the table. And it says, Happy Cinco de Meow. Okay.

It reminded me so much of one of the stupid shit that you post all the time. Hey, now. My shit's funny. But this isn't funny, really, though, because in a month, they're about ready to try to kill their daughter slash sister. And they just killed two. And they've already killed too, yeah. So on May 9th, Diane posted an inspirational quote, like the ones that you are always posting. That are damn good.

It read, each day of our lives, we should be sharing seeds of love and happiness. She did the exact opposite of that. She was sowing seeds of hatred. Poison. Poison. But it is very creepy to be able to peek into these people's lives and know what they had done already or were about to do at the time that they posted some of this stuff. Diane's very last post was on June 19th and it read Sarah Update, out of ICU and able to walk a little. Well, this was her last post because she was about to be arrested.

But nothing like pray for my daughter's recovery. There might have been some of that. It wasn't the, there wasn't on the last post, but there might have been some of that. Because you have to figure Gibbs, what are they going to do at that point? Everything has to be about damage control because they didn't succeed in killing her. Disney take those down. Zuck, I know you're listening. Can you make your team take it down?

Yeah, I don't know. So there's a couple of things, right? I don't know how that works. I also don't know. So like Diane has 224 friends. Do they not know she's a convicted murderer? I would think they do. Do I need to go through my list of friends and figure out who's a convicted murderer?

Say, hey. And can I unfriend people at that point? If you're a convicted. I can unfriend you, right? But you do do true crimes, you might want to hold on because the interview you could possibly do down the other letters.

Well, that's true. You know? My assumption is there's 224 people that probably friended her for some reason of playing some stupid game on Facebook. Is there games on Facebook? Yeah. They don't even know who she is,

some of them, and they have no idea that she's a convicted murderer. And they're still friends with her right now on Facebook. That's funny. me. And will that page just last in perpetuity? I think it probably will. Unless our buddy, Zuck, take it down. That's it. That's the story of Diane and Rachel Stouty, again, gives it is one that sincerely scares the shit out of me. Yeah, it should. Not just for family. I've seen how your wife looks at you sometimes. Oh, I know. Family, you know, I'm not scared of my family, but I also don't think Mark was probably

too scared either. I don't think Sean was probably all that scared. But it also, it also scares me to think about, you know, you and I could go out to dinner, get a state, get a beer. Somebody doesn't like the flannel that you're wearing that night. And I do have a flannel on, don't I again? Yeah, and it's got snaps again. I like them. Like a rhinstone cowboy. Exactly. Should wear my boots. Hey, can I go get you something to drink? No, I'm good. Why? I just want to see if you need something to drink. No. We just want to make sure. No, I'm good. Just some Gatorade over there, I've seen.

We've got voicemails. You want to check those out? I like voicemails. I know you do. Hi, yeah, Mike and Gibby, this is a long-time listener. Christine from Birmingham, UK. I think it's the second time calling. But anyways, just finished your recent episode about Reginald Brooks,

a very English name, by the way. Awesome. I love it. And you guys obviously mentioned how much of a despicable father he is. And on that note, I had a case suggestion about another absolutely disgraceful, just riveting human being, if you could call him like that. And his name is Mike Philpott. He is from, it's a case from UK. For benefits, he decided to set fire to his own house where six of his children were sleeping.

and they all passed away in this incident. You might want to link it into this case. I think it was quite popular in the UK. Thanks for all your awesome work. And keep your own time ticking. Cheers. Cheer. Cheers.

And that was your second time calling in for sure. I remember. Well, and I don't know if we said this last time, but her accent is so understated. Oh, yeah. Compared to some other British accents. Exactly what I was thinking. Her, I didn't think, she literally almost sounded like she was from the United States. I do better British accent than she does.

Geez. Well, we'll definitely check out that case for sure. Yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for that. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Lisa from San Francisco, California. I just wanted to call and say, thank you for doing an amazing podcast. I've been binging you guys for weeks.

I, too, work in a division of law enforcement. I work on the prosecution side and basically handle processing, discovery all day long, and seeing some nasty stuff, some not so much. And you guys get me through my day. I list you guys on my hour commute to work and my sometimes two hour long commute home. I wanted to give you guys a suggestion

for somebody who might be interested in covering. His name is Stuart Charles Alexander. He dubbed himself the sausage king of San Leandro. He was convicted in 2004 of the murder of three state and USDA meet compliance officials. Have a kind of interesting backstory, some daddy issues, some creepy stories he wrote with a girlfriend,

what he wanted to do to these inspectors that supposedly harassed him. So just a little bit of suggestion for you guys. Again, thank you for an amazing podcast. You guys really get me through my day. Have a good day. Keep your own time taken. Bye-bye. Oh, thank you so much for that voicemail, Lisa.

It's funny, Gibbs, because you often call yourself the sausage king of Dayton, Ohio. Yeah. I don't know why, but... We'll just leave it there. Yeah. Sometimes you just got to lay it down and walk away. But that sounds like a very fascinating case. It actually really does.

We should look into that. Yeah, for sure. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Lauren from Salt Lake City. I'm just calling to the stinky guys for helping me keep the clean house because I'm all the time. So thanks for that. The following is kind of a funny story.

Growing up, my dad has been a police officer, a detective. nothing sends a chill down the spine like getting a call to talk at our church in front of the congregation. And they would always get such a big laugh. And for years, I just thought it was a joke until recently, you guys, I'm almost 30, found out that he has worked with serial killers before. He was in the prisons with for hand for hand and Charles Manson. And he told me all these stories about working with them and how literally staring into these eyes of these killers was like the most. most bone-shilling thing that has ever happened to him. So, yeah, had my mind blown. So I would just share that with you. And hopefully you get a kick out of that. So thanks so much for what you do.

I'm looking forward to the next few episodes and the clean house. So thanks so much and keep your own time taken. Thanks. We are the clean house motivators for sure. For sure. For sure. So waited almost 30 years to tell these amazing stories. I like the, I like the way she said it. I'm almost 30. Yeah. I like, I got underwear older than that. Yeah, you do. How would you know? Don't be looking at my underwear. You set yourself up for that. I did. Huh. I'm lost for words. It's rare, but I like it when it happens. Yeah. I don't know. Next voice mail is all I can say. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Mary Riker. I'm a new listener and I just started listening. Maybe about three weeks ago to get myself through work in which I work at a doggy daycare,

and I basically just walk in circles all day and pet dogs, so it can get a little boring sometimes. And I worked about maybe an hour and a half away from where I live. So it's a really nice way to just entertain myself and not fall asleep during my shift or when I'm driving super early in the morning. And I just wanted to say thank you because you guys are so entertaining, especially you, Gibby, talking to you. Love you guys. She's talking to you,

Sausage King of David. So I've said it before. Yeah. We are the number one podcast with people that like to go around in circles. She walks dogs in circles. Yeah. But what a cool job, right? We love anybody that works with dogs, helps dogs.

It's kind of like watching you. A little bit, a little bit. Yeah. There are certain treats I need. I need my medicine. Need you medicine. I do need a lot of water. I let you outside every now and then.

Every now and then. Yeah. The cleanup's a bitch, but it is, you know. All right. We got mailbag. Oh, we got mailbag? Yeah, Claire McMillan sent in a Harley chip from Glasgow, Scotland. Yep. Fuck of what much. What was that? You know, I should stop on my head. Like one word. Stop. I have been getting a lot of requests for some international cases. Oh, really? And we're going to need to branch out. People want to hear your accent. Sure. In moderation. You can go overboard. Let's do Moscow. Oh, there's some, there are some rough serial killers in Russia. Yeah. The issue is, and I've started to research some of these cases, the name pronunciations alone would be brutal.

For me. For me, too. Some of them are very, very difficult. But we have so many international listeners. And I think our U.S. audience likes to hear every now and then some of our cases. Yeah. Some of the cases we do. Australia. We've been to England. Mexico, Canada. Canada, a bunch.

Canada bunch. Yeah. Where else? Do we do one in Scotland yet? Germany and Italy? That's un-unsolved, right? Yeah. Yeah.

On T-Cat, we haven't been to Germany or in. But we'll get there. All right. That's it. For another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike. Ghibie. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Sausage King.