True Crime All The Time - Donald Pee Wee Gaskins Part2

Episode Date: September 20, 2021

Donald "Pee Wee" Gaskins was a serial killer from Florence, South Carolina. Police know he had at least 14 confirmed victims, but, he confessed to as many as 100 murders. He has been called the meanest man in South Carolina.Join Mike and Gibby for this 2nd and last episode in the Pee Wee Gaskins saga. In this second episode, we focus on what Pee Wee called his serious murders, how he was eventually caught, his trials, and execution. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 251 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. Gippee, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about you? Doing really well. You and I just had a couple of Penn Station subs to fuel us for this Pee-Wee Gaskins part two. Did. And you know I need my fuel, man. You do. If I don't have my fuel, I grind to a halt. Really quick. Very quickly. So before we jump up. into this episode, though. We have an episode out on true crime all the time unsolved. We're talking about the watcher of Westfield. And this is a very fascinating case.

It was supposed to come out last Sunday, but due to some technical difficulties with with some companies that we work with, it didn't happen. But I think Gibbs, this is one that people are really going to latch on to. Yeah, this one's really fascinating. It's got a lot of twist and turns and, you know, it's just so much going on in this one that I don't even want to say anything more about it. Don't want to give the details away, right? Because people, we want them to experience it. The lie detector machine, the polygraph is in.

Uh-oh. So for those that don't know, on Patreon, we're getting ready to hook Gibby up to a polygraph machine. Should be exciting. Should be exciting. It's going to be on video and audio. I think it'll be better on video. but so if you're on Patreon check that out if you're not now's a great time to sign up gives let's give our shoutouts for patreon we had Derek Bowie hey Derek Michelle Gonzalez what's going on

Michelle Doty Stiles hey thank you Doty James Davis what's happening James Desiree Mascato Hey Muscato Kelly Turcott hey thank you Kelly Kaylee Banks what's going on banks marika Hey marika devin Seismore hey appreciate that size more john marks jumped out of at our highest level. Man, thanks, John. Catherine Carney. Hey, Catherine. Amanda Mansfield.

What's up, Mansfield? Katie. Good old Katie. Andrea Zoshak. Ooh, the Zoshock. Don't mess with the Zoshak. Exactly. Kyle Ann Cantley.

Hey, what's going on, Kylean? Rachel Conrad. Hey, Rachel. Cassandra Ryan. Thank you. Cacandra. Muckin fungroll. Well,

Muckin, you too. You're going to mess it up. Chuck Smith. Hey, Chuck. Callie Durdon. What's going on, Callie? Edward Overbay. Well, hello, Overbay.

And last but not least, Gary Wood. What up, Wood. And then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Jennifer Young. Hey, Jennifer. So we appreciate all that Patreon support, new and the people that continue to support us. We had some great PayPal donations as well from Yvette Burtchelle. Hey, Yvette. Aubrey Eldridge.

What's going on, Elwitch? Christy Blake. Hey, Christy. And Stacey Bowman. What's up, Bowman? All right, Gibbs. I've got to ask you the question, man. Are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time?

And I'm very ready for this one. So in this episode, obviously it's part two of the Peewee Gaskins story. In part one, we covered his early life, his lengthy criminal record before he ever became a serial killer, his first murders, and his infamous coastal kills. In this part two, we'll discuss what Pee We called his serious murders, how he finally got caught after years of killing, and his execution in 1991. Now, Peewee was only convicted of and sentenced for eight murders, but the police know he had at least 14 confirmed victims, seven women, five men, a toddler, and an unborn baby.

And we know that numbers on the low end. Yeah, I think most people probably believe it is. I mean, we talked about it in the first episode that he has admitted to, okay, 80 to 100 murders. Is that correct? No, most people probably think that's on the high end. Could it be somewhere between 14 and 80? Absolutely could. Yeah. So Peewee was paroled in November of 1968. As we talked about in the last episode, he claims to have started. started committing his coastal kills in 1969. To the residents of prospect, Peewee seemed like a reformed man, right? He was doing some roofing. We talked about that. The problem was he wasn't reformed

and he was unwilling to turn away from a life of crime. What he did was basically create a new criminal enterprise. Like boardwalk empire? Something like that. Yeah. Probably not as successful. Yes. His friend stole cars from North Charleston and brought them to Peewee's home and prospect for him to resell.

Pee-wee was known for driving a black hearse with a sign on it that read, I haul dead bodies. What do you make of that? Yeah, that's kind of bizarre. Not real respectful. Right now, he's not working at a funeral home. Obviously, no respectable funeral home would put that sign on their hearse. I think he was kind of bragging the fact that he had his own private cemetery. Well, maybe if he killed 80 to 100 people, he could have possibly had his own private cemetery.

Could have. That nobody knew about. But I think everyone in town thought it was a joke, right? Most people brushed pee-wee off as mentally disturbed. I think a lot of people just tried to avoid him altogether. Definitely the residents of prospect and flurbed. Lawrence South Carolina thought that Peewee Gaskins was a strange, sometimes scary man, but they knew if they left him alone, he wouldn't do them any harm.

They had no idea he was becoming a serial killer. So Gibbs, I mean, one of the things that kind of jumps out at me is, does every town have somebody that is kind of like this? I know in the town that I grew up in, there was a gentleman. he was probably in his late 20s to early 30s. And he walked around the city, the town. I lived in a pretty small town, shirtless all the time. And, you know, it got cold sometimes.

Sure. shirtless. Yeah. He was obviously mentally impaired. Right. I mean, there's no doubt about that. But, you know, I can remember people talking about him all the time in terms of, well, he's harmless.

you know, just don't mess with him, leave him alone. I think I can remember my parents saying things like that. You know, if he's on this side of the sidewalk, get across the street to the other side, just because they really didn't know him, they didn't know what was going on with him. Right. Didn't know the backstory. Yeah. Didn't know, you know, his family or what was going on.

I think you could find that in a lot of communities. Yeah, I think so. A lot of communities have an individual. whether that person, you know, has mental health issues or they're just kind of in their own realm. Yeah. Doing their own thing. But sometimes maybe giving off a scary vibe to certain people. Sure. Yeah. In November 1970, Peewee killed what he later termed to be his first serious murder victims,

his niece and her friend. Pee we killed 15-year-old Janice Kirby and 17-year-old Patricia Alsberg. Janice had run away from home with Patricia. Pee-wee found the girls and lured them into an abandoned house. He tried and failed to rape both of them. So he beat them to death in retaliation. He's attacking his own kin. Yeah, we kind of talked about it a little bit at the end of the last episode.

these murder victims, what he calls his serious murder victims, a lot of them were known to him. A lot of these people were going to talk about, he had a beef with for one reason or another. According to Pee Wee, he found Janice and Patricia drunk and high. He was extremely angry at Janice and killed her in a fit of rage. Now, he killed Patricia because she was a witness. In a prison interview, he said, they was both under drugs bad and I started in on them about it and we had a fight in there and I beat him to death with my fist in hand.

He buried Patricia in a septic tank but couldn't bear to put his niece in there. He took her to prospect and buried her in a field. He told Janice's family, which would have been his family, that she and Patricia ran away from home. So you got to break this down a little bit. right killed his niece in a fit of rage okay was it because she was high she was on drugs or was it because he tried to rape both of these girls and they resisted him right so some conflicting information here right but the part about him not being able to bury his niece in a septic tank you know had to bury her out in the field so now he has

has a little what emotional attachment or something a code a morality i don't know what you call it didn't didn't kick in when he murdered her no but kicked in after death somehow so now he's got a conscience yeah a few weeks later pee we found out that martha dix was the woman who had sold drugs to the girls he later confessed that night janice and patricia died i promised after it was over that Martha Ann would never live a year after that. Now, Martha is referred to as Clyde and some of the sources because she was known for dressing like a man. Peewee killed Martha for selling drugs to the girls and may also have killed her because she was pregnant with his child. So there are rumors and allegations that Martha allegedly participated in a threesome with Peewee and his wife Donna.

She got pregnant and began telling people it was Pee Wee's child. And there's a lot going on. There is. There is a lot going on. But Peewee invited Martha to a junkyard to pick out a car. And then he gave her a Coke laced with acid and watched her slowly die from the poison. He later said, I gave her the Coca-Cola and she drank that. And she tried to scream.

She turned it up to her head. And next thing I know, the bottle hit the floor. According to the state, after this peewee loaded her body up and flipped her over in a ditch. So we knew he was upset about her selling drugs to his niece and her friend. And it sounds like he might have been upset about her telling the town about her carrying his baby. Yeah, yeah, it definitely sounds like that. But think about standing in front of someone Gibbs.

You hand them a Coke, knowing that there's acid. in it, they drink the Coke, and you are watching them face to face as they die. Yeah, struggling to breathe. That's a brutal, brutal way to go. You know, is it the exact same as wrapping your hands around someone's neck and watching the life go out of them? Maybe not the same because you're not hands on, but it's still very intimate. You're close.

You know, you're not a sniper shooting someone. from 300 yards away. Yeah, he didn't say I gave her the coke and walked away. Yes. And she died hours later. Right. It sounded like he stood there and watched as she died. After Martha, there are several victims that are unconfirmed.

Peewee confessed to killing these people, but was never charged for murdering them. Peewey claimed to have killed a woman named Ann Colberson and was hitchhiking to at and Peewee said he picked her up. He raped and tortured her for four days and buried her near his niece Janice. So, you know, we kind of talked about, well, maybe he did have his own private cemetery. Okay. If you're burying multiple people in the same field, in the same spot, it's almost like you are starting up your own private cemetery. Peewee killed a man named Eddie Brown. after he purchased some stolen weapons from him. I guess federal agents started tracking Eddie and Peewee thought that Eddie was going to snitch on

him. He also confessed to killing Bertie Brown Eddie's wife. So again, right, we talked about it. A lot of these later murders that he dubbed his serious murders, they weren't exactly like before. They weren't all strangers. They weren't just people he met and decided he wanted to kill. it's almost as if he had some in his mind reasons for killing these people.

Peewee picked up another hitchhiker named Jackie Freeman. He raped and murdered her. He later told the police the location of her body, but said she was Janice because he didn't want them to find his private cemetery, Gibbs. So there you go. Now, we're going back and forth, it seems like. right he's murdering people that he has issues with but at the same time he is still picking up random hitchhikers yeah with whom it seems as though he has no connection whatsoever we know he's

going to kill him because earlier he said he was never going to go back to prison again yeah i think he made that decision as a lot of killers do at some point during their reign of terror right especially the ones that have been caught multiple times, it seems like a lot of them Gibbs come to the conclusion that the reason why they're getting caught is because they're leaving people alive to tell the authorities about them, identify them. All right, I can't let that happen anymore. Right. Peewee's next confirmed victims were 23-year-old Doreen Dempsey, Doreen's two-year-old daughter Robin and Doreen's unborn baby. Doreen lived near Peewee and she kind of thought of him as a friend.

She had even lived with him and his wife, Donna, on a previous occasion. Doreen was seven months pregnant and she didn't want to walk a long distance to the bus station. So she had her friends drop her off at Peewee's house so that she could ask him for a ride. he agreed but at some point he got very angry with doreen when he found out that the father of her baby was black he later said gibbs quote when you go to mixing i don't hold with that one bit in the world okay that's terrible english it really is but obviously we know he didn't spend a lot of time in school what did he drop out at 11 years old i think it was so So, you know, we're not expecting him to have Gibby level type English slash grammar skills.

It's just not going to happen. No way, man. Now, Peewee said, you know, he already disapproved of Robin because she was half black. And he was angry that Doreen was going to have another mixed race child. So not only is he a rapist, killer, all of that. obviously this was a man who was extremely racist as well. Yeah, on top of all that. Peewee took Doreen to the pond behind his home where he raped and drowned her.

He later told the state, I was going to talk with her. And she was about seven months pregnant at the time again. And so I asked her who the daddy of the kid was that she was carrying right then. And it was another black kid from what she told me. We went on around to the fish pond and we walked around the edge and I just shoved her right in the pond and grabbed her by the feet and held her under. And then I went back and got the kid and done the same thing. So he killed a 23 year old woman, drowned her. Yeah.

Horrible. Pregnant woman. Pregnant. Seven months pregnant. Then went and got her two year old daughter and had no issues with doing the exact same. thing to her. I mean, hopefully everybody is getting the picture of pee we gaskins. This was a man who had no qualms at all, Gibbs, about killing anyone. Now, you know, killing's wrong, right? You and I talk about that all the time. There are some killers who have a

code. Does that make it right? No, obviously not. But there are some killers who, you know, have said they won't kill children. That's not Peewee Gaskins. No. He doesn't care who he murders. Gibbs, he later admitted to raping both of them. He raped and drowned a two-year-old girl.

Yeah. Can you be any more of a monster than that? No, I don't think so. I mean, he's already raped a pregnant woman, drowned that pregnant woman, and then raped her daughter and drowned her. Two years old.

Yeah. And he also admitted to cutting off and eating a part of Doreen's leg. So I think we touched on it in the first episode, right? Possibly a little cannibalism in the crimes of Peewee Gaskins. Well, it comes in here. In 1973, the year that I was born, Peewee befriended ex-convict Walter Neely. who worked at the roofing company with him, Walter was said to have some mental health issues,

and peewee thought that this would be a guy who would be easy to control. So one night after killing three people, Peewee's van broke down on the highway. He called Walter for help with moving the bodies to his garage. And Walter would continue to help Peewee bury bodies, destroy evidence and even fence some stolen goods from the murder victims. So great. Now he's got a buddy helping him out.

Yeah. And you know, you just look back on it and you think, you know, how severe were these mental health issues? How pliable. You know, we touched on it, right? Peewee Gaskins was a master manipulator. He found this guy, Walter, and thought, he's perfect. Sure. Yeah. I'll be able to get him to do whatever I want him to do. And that he did. It sounds like he did. In June 1974, Peewee killed 36-year-old Johnny Sellers and 22-year-old

Jesse Ruth Judy. Johnny and Jesse lived together in Charleston. Now, Johnny owed Peewee money for getting him out of jail and he agreed to split the proceeds from a stolen boat. But the fence didn't want to pay Johnny and told Peewee to just get rid of him. So Pee we invited Johnny to the woods to retrieve some stolen goods. So right there, if you knew Peewee's reputation, would you be like, yeah, let's go meet in those woods? I think that would have been a red flag. Or would you have done anything you could do to scrape together the money to get this guy out of your life? The state later reported that Peewee said, me and Johnny walked around there in the woods and I pretended I seen a snake and I asked Johnny, did he have his gun with him? So Johnny says, I ain't got no bullets for my gun.

I went back to my car and I got my gun and I shot Johnny. Peewee left his body in the woods to go get Jesse from the fence's house. I mean, if you think about his question there, how smart was that? You just learn that the guy that you potentially wanted to kill didn't have a weapon that he could use to defend himself because he didn't have any bullets. Pretty smart on the part of Pee-Wee Gaskins. I shouldn't use the word smart, but he is displaying some wits about him. As he goes along, he said, I told Jesse that Johnny said for her to come on with me. So I carried her back there and killed her. And then I buried him. Peewee said that he stabbed her in the heart. But Gibbs, he later said he felt guilty for killing Jesse because they had had sex in the past. And that statement really surprises me.

Sure. That this kind of guy would feel guilty about really anything that he did in his life. It's kind of like right up there with him not wanting to bury his niece in a septic system. Yeah. Kind of had odds with who you. think this guy is or was. In the fall of 1974, Pee We decided to murder two carnival workers named Linda and Jeanette. But Gibbs, the reason why he wanted to kill them was because he'd heard that they had dated black men in the past. That's his reason. Yep, just right there. He's got a problem with race. He does. No, there's no doubt about it. He is a full-blown racist. He claims. He claimed to have shot both women in the head, but he was never charged for their murders.

Peewee confessed to killing a man named Horace Jones for making a sexual advance on his wife. Now, Gibbsy said he was willing to trade his wife for a service. But Horace, quote, went about it the wrong way. Okay. There's a certain. There was a certain way that Peewee thought this should have gone down. Yes. I'm willing to trade my wife.

for some service. Right. But you're going to do it this way. Yeah. Don't you be going around the back door on me on this. Don't, don't, uh,

mess with the rules of etiquette in the sexual favor exchange. He shot Horace three times. Now, pee we was never charged for this murder either. So Horace is an unconfirmed victim. In February, 1975, peewee was hired as a hitman by a woman named Suzanne Kipper.

She paid peewee, $1,500 to kill her ex-boyfriend Silas Yates. Is that a lot of money to kill someone? I was just thinking the same thing. It just doesn't seem like a lot of money, even back in the 70s. Well, what would $1,500 equate to today? Beepo, people, beep, boop. Maybe like 18, 20,000.

Okay, maybe. I was thinking 10 or something, but yeah, you could be right. I think it's somewhere in that range. Can you imagine if someone came up to you, and said, hey, I know you have a special set of skills, which you do. Sure. I want you to kill someone for $8,000, $10,000. Now, you would turn them down for any amount of money.

I know that. Okay. Because you don't do it for money. I don't. But, you know, in all seriousness, think about $8,000. Think about $10,000. Right off the top, you've got to give half to the government. You're going to claim that?

Yeah. I just can't imagine. you know, selling your soul like that for that amount of money, let alone any amount of money, but just such a small amount. Well, and the risk involved, right? Sure. If you get caught, you could get life in prison or worse? There's that.

And then let's say you never get caught. You still know that you killed someone. Now, if you're peeweed, it doesn't make any difference. You've killed a number of people. I'm talking more about, you know, your neighbor. or your friend and you go to that person and say, I really need this person to go away. Will you do it for $8,000? No.

It's going to be a big no. You better be ready for somebody to show up later saying, hey, I heard you might need a hit man. Let's talk about it in my wired car. Exactly. So Silas Yates left his family in 1973 and started dating Suzanne. Their relationship ended and Silas demanded that Susan. return all the gifts he bought her. Well, Suzanne didn't take kindly to that, right? She didn't want to give back the gifts that she'd been given during this relationship. So she and her friend, John Philip

Owens hired a man named John Powell to kill Silas. John Powell knew Pee Wee Gaskins and hired him to help with the job. John Powell and John Owens handled the communications between Peewee and Suzanne. So essentially it sounds like they were middleman. So if I was a train killer, I would say this has too many layers already. Well, there's a lot of moving pieces here. And there's a lot of people who can later implicate me in this. Yeah, there's too much going on. Peeweed also decided to involve Walter and his wife, Diane Neely. So we're back to Walter. right he knows he can get walter to do just about anything he wants him to do it was on february 12th 1975 that diane neely lured silas yates out of his house by asking him for help with some car

problems peewee ambush silas and kidnapped him he stole about twenty one hundred dollars worth of items from the house while silas was trapped in the trunk of the car and then afterwards he drove silas to the woods to kill him. Diane, Powell, and Owens helped bury him. And I guess Peewee bragged to everyone that he killed Silas with his bare hands. But later, the autopsy showed that he died from stab wounds. So he's just full bullshit. Yeah, I think he was across the board. But what is he trying to say? Right. Let's not forget, Peewee's not a big guy. We talked about that. That's why he's called pee-wee. Right. But I'm puffing myself up. I'm bragging to you. I'm making you think that I'm more than what I am. I killed this man with my bare hand. Well, he needs to, right? Just like he did when he

went to prison, he took out the biggest, baddest dude. So he had that reputation in prison to not be messed with. But Gibbs, just as we talked about, there were too many moving parts. There were too many people involved in this, Diane Neely and her new boyfriend, Avery Howard, decided that they wanted to blackmail pee-wee Gaskins. Okay, number one on the list of bad things to do is try to blackmail pee-wee. Not a good thing. When you already know that this guy is a killer, you don't know the full extent, right? None of these people probably do, but you know he has no problem killing. So why would you want to even take that chance? No. Why risk it? In April 1975, they did just that. They asked for $5,000 in exchange for not going to police. Peewee agreed and he arranged a meeting for the payout. And to me, Gibbs, this right there, it should have been the biggest red flag. We asked for five. Peewee agreed to pay the five. No haggling. No, he didn't even try to get us down to half or.

or something like that. Yeah. And the other flag or siren that should have went off was when he said, let's meet in the woods to handle this business. Yeah,

because at that meeting, he killed them both and buried their bodies. But again, I go back to how do you not know that this is going to happen? How can you not figure out that you're taking a huge risk

of trying to blackmail a killer, a person who has had no problem killing in the past, what's going to stop this person from just killing you? And you know what the answer is? Nothing. Nothing stopped him. Peewee claimed that night he gave one of his friends a knife and left the area. When he returned, he found Diane and Avery dead in their car. He said he only shot them in the head for good measure. So this friend has never been found. I think most people don't believe that he even exists. Right.

It was Pee-wee. Yeah. Just his way of saying, I didn't kill him. Right. I put him out of their misery. When I found them, that's what I did.

Just wanted to make sure they were dead, so I shot them in the head. Didn't want them to suffer. But in later interviews, Peewee said he killed Diane and Avery because she was cheating on Walter with Avery. And Walter's kind of his buddy, right? His go-to guy.

But he waffled back and forth on this. At certain times he said, well, I didn't really have all that much problem with the affair. And it did come out that he actually allowed the couple to use his workshop to have sex in. So how much could he have really been bothered by the affair? It was when Diane threatened to, you know, report him. When she blackmailed him, he had to kill them both. Well, sure, look, he said he was never going to go back to prison. Yeah, it's a good point.

So not only are you making the decision that you're not going to leave any of your victims alive. You also can't leave any cohorts alive, especially if they're making, you know, those type of threats of, you know, turning you in. Yeah. Shortly after this, Peewee murdered 13-year-old Kim Gelkins. And ultimately, this would be the murder that led to his arrest. In September 1975, Kim showed up to Pee Wee's home. He allowed her to stay with him and his wife. Kim was a young runaway.

And she quickly bonded with Peewee's daughter, Shirley. But soon after she moved in, Kim made claims that Peewee and two other friends raped her. Wayne Gibbs is not too hard to believe that he would do this. Go back to episode one. He raped a number of young girls. 12 year olds 13 year olds well he'd had no problem raping his own niece so yeah so you know she made this claim if you had to bet money on it you would say more likely than not it's definitely true right but again she's threatening him she's threatening his freedom and pee we can't have that so he kind

of cooked up this little vacation and was going to take him take Kim along. But what he ended up doing was he took her to a trailer. He raped and tortured her and then he killed her. He shot her in the back of the head, stabbed her in the stomach, and buried her body in a field. And Pee Wee later admitted that when Kim denied his sexual advances, that's when he killed her. So he was upset because a 13-year-old said, no, he decided he was going to do whatever he wanted anyway and then killed her. I think that was his, That was his thing. Right.

Now, why he wanted to do that, that's what I struggle with. Why would any grown man want to do that? Why would anyone want to kill someone? I struggle with the wise of these things that he did. But there's no doubt that he wanted to do them. And there was really nothing that was going to stand in his way of him doing what he wanted to do. Yeah, I mean, he really didn't care about the age of his victims, right?

I mean, Robin was two. If anything, it suggests that he was sexually attracted to very young girls, you know, in this 11, 12, 13-year-old age range. In 1975, Pee Wee brought Walter Neely back in on some of his murders. These were the murders of half-brothers, 28-year-old Dennis Bellamy, and 15, year old Johnny Knight. And it was this bringing Walter back in that would later backfire on Peewee. But these two guys, Bellamy and Knight, they made the mistake of robbing Peewee's auto repair shop. And apparently Peewee liked Johnny, but he hated Dennis. And they'd hated each other since about

1971 when Dennis got drunk and started to fight at Peewee's house. And this is something we haven't talked about, but it comes out in the research. Apparently, Pee Wee didn't approve of drunkenness. And he later bragged that the reason why his hair stayed so dark for so long was because of his quote, clean living. Oh, he was living the clean life. Yeah. So drunkenness bad, rape, torture, murder. I'm totally fine with that. Right. Yeah. No problems there. You see how bizarre that is? Yeah, he's just so messed up. Where you're drawing the line is at open drunkenness.

I can't abide that. The other stuff, do whatever you want. It just blows me away. And to say that he was living the clean life. A hypocrite on the highest level, right? Yeah, absolutely. So on October 10th, 1975, Peewee took both men out to the woods and killed them. Dennis and Johnny.

showed up to Pee Wee's house late that night. Dennis was drunk, which made Pee Wee angry. He offered Dennis a ride and at some point he stopped in the woods. Peewee got out of the car telling Dennis he had to use the bathroom. Dennis followed him into the woods. The men stopped at a tree where Peewee asked Dennis about a tree limb that they could possibly use to string up a car engine and it was when Dennis looked up that peewee shot him in the head three times. Yeah, so I think if you get anything out of this, if someone asked you to go into the woods,

it should always be, no thank you. What if you want to go bird watching? No, thank you. Okay. So you're drawing the line at just no woods whatsoever. Exactly. I wasn't sure why if Peewee had to pee, Johnny had to go with him.

Well, it could have been one of those things. Hey, man, I got to take a piss really quick. You know what? I think I'll go with you and do one too. Oh, I got two too. Okay. See, I was having like a something about Mary six minute abs thing. Oh, yeah. Where he said, oh, I'm just peeing. Everybody else pops up and said, hey, I'm just peeing too. I'm just peeing too, buddy. Yeah. Later that night, Peewee and Walter took Johnny through the woods. They were getting close to Dennis's body. So Peewee figured that he might as well kill Johnny because he'd already killed his brother Dennis.

So he's got Walter with him, right? And Walter witnessed Johnny's murder, helped Pee-wee bury both of the bodies. Afterwards, Pee-wee showed Walter where he buried some of the other bodies, what he called his private cemetery. I think a lot of these guys and people, victims, I think a lot of these victims were okay going into the woods

with Pee-wee because of his personnel. his stature, right? I mean, they weren't, they weren't, like, worried, I don't believe. Not from a physical altercation standpoint. I agree, right? We said it in an episode one, his unassuming stature. Yeah. Kind of allowed him to get away with some things that maybe he wouldn't have been able to

if he was 6, 5, 280. Right. But he wasn't, right? He was, he was small. He was a small guy. So I think you're right. A lot of people probably were a little easy with their guard, right? Letting it down because I thought, what's this guy going to do to me?

Right. Well, he's going to shoot you in the head three times. That's what he's going to do to you. They just weren't aware how calculating he could be. Yeah. Multiple steps ahead of what was going to happen. And he had to be because he wasn't going to overpower anybody. So he had to think things out, plan things out.

or at the very least get you when you weren't looking and kind of set it up that way. Peewee attracted the police's attention when 13-year-old Kim Galkins was reported missing. Kim's teacher Marianne Dullum reported her missing after Kim's sister told her that she never returned from a trip to the country with a neighbor. Mrs. Dullum recalled that when Kim completed an assignment about her summer vacation, she said the person she most admired was Donna Gaskins, Pee Wee's wife. So police went to the trailer owned by Donna and Peewee, but no one was home. They did find some of Kim's clothing inside the trailer, but no signs of Peewee or Donna.

So this is kind of interesting when you have a young child, right, that goes missing. Okay, naturally, I think the police are. were going to go talk to their teacher. And this teacher just happened to remember some writing where she talked about this woman named Donna Gaskins. Thankfully she did. Yeah. I found it very fascinating.

But police didn't find Donna and peewee. So they went to go talk to Walter Neely. They picked him up for questioning. And I don't think Gibbs, it took police very long to break him down. Remember, Walter had some mental health issues, maybe some mental deficiencies, I think both. So from what I understand, as soon as the police threatened him with the death penalty, Walter panicked and he spilled everything. He even took them to a place called alligator landing.

And it was there that police found Doreen's body buried in a sawdust pile. Robin's body had been stuffed into a tree stump hole. Remember, she was only two years old. Yeah, yep, tiny. Sad. On November 20th, 1975, Peeley was found at his prospect home and arrested for contributing to the delinquency of a minor. At that time, they couldn't charge him with Kim's murder because they had not found her body.

He denied everything. He refused to give them any information. But it was Walter Neely who told the police about the private graveyard out in the Florence Wilderness. Game changer. Huge. And digging started on December 4th, 1975 in a wooded grove near cornfield and prospect. The police found three bodies the very first night. And I think it was at that point Gibbs when police found these graves that they knew. Peewee Gaskins was a serial killer. And just days later on December 6th, they found three more bodies.

Yeah. So at that point, there's no doubt, right? You've got six bodies buried in the same location. We've got a serious problem. And we have a serious serial killer on our hand. Among the bodies were Johnny Sellers, Jesse, Judy, Avery Howard, Diane Neely. Johnny Knight and Dennis Bellamy. On April 27th, 1976, Pee Wee and Walter Neely were charged with the murder of Dennis Bellamy.

They went to trial on May 23rd. And what I found interesting Gibbs was that Peewee's family testified against him. They had some information about his private graveyard, his gun collection. He even had some tools for digging graves. Okay. not looking great against you. Let's not forget you drive around in a hearse that says, I haul dead bodies. But if you're his family, this is your opportunity to speak up and maybe have something done so he's not there to threaten you in the future.

Yeah, I think it's a good point. You know, how scared were they of peewee? Yeah. You know, how much did they know? I don't know the full truth on that. but let's say they knew. Maybe not to full extent, but they knew that he was doing some really bad things. They also knew that everybody who had either tried to blackmail him or turn on him ended up dead.

Okay, are you going to be the next person? Probably not, but now's your chance, like you said. Time to be all in on this one. So the prosecution had a ton of evidence. The defense tried to place the blame on Walter Neely. but Neely was able to negotiate a plea deal and he ended up with a life sentence. On May 28th, Peewee Gaskins was found guilty of murdering Dennis Bellamy and sentenced to death.

In November 1976, the Supreme Court outlawed capital punishment. So peewee sentence was commuted to life in prison. And I think this was a big thing for him. Number one, he knew he wasn't going to die. And so it was at that point gives that he started confessing to other murders. Because what else could they do to him? You can't kill me now. Right.

So if you want to tack on 10, 20, 30 life sentences, go for it. I'm going to be here anyway. Yeah, but he's not going to do just out of the kindness of his heart. He wants something in return. He does. I mean, one thing that he wanted was conjugal visits with his wife. and in exchange for that, he led authorities to three bodies. The police found Patricia Alsbrook stuffed in a septic tank on November 4th,

1976. At that point, she'd been missing for six years. And I have to think Gibbs, if he doesn't give up the location, she's probably never found. No, unlikely. Kim Gilkins was found on November 11th, buried in a large field. On December 8th, Silas Yates' body was found about one mile from where Kim was buried. But they are going to try peewey again, right? His second murder trial was for the murder of Silas Yates.

At the trial, he initially denied murdering Silas. But in the middle of his testimony, he confessed to five murders. Okay, probably not the strategy that your defense was going for. No, well, I'm thinking the defense is wondering, wait, you already told him where the body was. Now you're going to say you didn't have anything to do with the killing. And then you're just going to confess to five murders? Yeah. All right.

Can we take a five? I need a five here with my client because things are out of control. One of the murders Peewee confessed to was that of Pegg Ketino. And Atlanta attorney named Charles King had charged Pee We with killing Pegg. but South Carolina authorities refused to accept the charges. I think one reason was because a man named William Pierce was already in prison for the murder of Pegg Katina. And from my understanding, Gibbs Peewee Gaskins was just one of about 1,500 suspects in Pegg's case.

Wow. That's quite a bit. That's a large number. It was a very high profile murder because Pegg's father was a statement. Because Pegg's father was a state legislator, Pee Wee was initially questioned but released because his employer verified his alibi. Peg was seen walking past the house where Pee We was working on the roof, but there was no real evidence that he killed her.

So right in the middle of it, right? He's just confessing to a bunch of murders, but they still have to continue this trial for the murder of Silas Yates. he was ultimately found guilty in sentenced to life prison on April 27th, 1977. And it was just two days after that trial ended that 20-year-old Martha Dick's body was found. Pee-wee led the police to her body in exchange for a plea deal. And you have to question, right?

Why would Peewee Gaskins need to make a plea deal? He's confessing. He's got multiple life sentences already. well, it's because I think they were threatening to charge him with other murders and seek the death penalty. Okay, well, now, okay, now we got a problem here. Because it seemed like he was okay with the life sentences, but he didn't want to die. And from what I understand, it was the murder of Johnny Knight that they were thinking about going after him and trying to get the death penalty. In April 1978, Peewee gave a written confession to 14 murders in exchange for eight life sentences.

He confessed to murdering Diane Neely, Avery Howard, Jesse Ruth Judy, Johnny Sellers, Johnny Knight, Doreen Dempsey, Robin Dempsey, Kim Galkins, Patricia Alsbrook, Janice Kirby, and Martha Dix. He didn't receive charges for the last four victims. because they used truth serum on him. So they got details out of him, but I guess that meant that, you know, they couldn't charge him. He also gave more details about the Yates and Bellamy murders.

But in his written confession, Gaskins recanted his statements about killing Peg Kutina. So he was kind of all over the place, right? And this statement, it wasn't like a one page. Gives, it was 331 pages. It really detailing out the murders. Really?

And the state wrote that he detailed everything out as casually as most people tell what they had for breakfast. You and I have used that type of analogy many, many times, right? It's like ordering at a restaurant or me telling you what I had for lunch yesterday. I don't know that with some of these killers, it's much more than that in the grand scheme of things for them. It's just what they do, right? Yeah, it's kind of everyday ho-hum type stuff, which is shocking to all of us because it's hard to understand how it could be like that. We just can't figure that out.

But this was his first and only full chronological confession of his victims. after he gave it, he finally led the police to Janice's body. Because at this point, she'd been considered a missing person for eight years. And is it shocking gives that he would be the most reticent to disclose information about Janice? To me, it's not at all. No.

You know, this was his niece. There had to have been something there that, that I'm not saying he felt bad about it, but maybe he didn't want his family to know. There had to been some reason along those lines that the information about her murder was the last to come out, or at least for her body to be discovered.

Well, if he had any allies on his side of his family, that would have just ended all that. And maybe that's a good point. Maybe he didn't feel bad about it at all, maybe it was more calculated in that, hey, I need somebody to fill up my canteen account. Now I'm going to have nobody on my side. So I'm thinking Peewee probably wasn't the ideal inmate. No, he wasn't. There's no doubt about that. In 1982, Peewee took a paid hit job and killed a fellow inmate with a homemade explosive device.

I've got to wonder how you get the makings of a explosive device in prison. Yeah, you would think that would be one of the priorities, right, in prison. Let's not let anything in that can be turned into a bomb. The problem is we know you can use a lot of different things to make some type of explosive device. A guy named Tony Seymow hired Pee Wee to kill inmate Rudolph Tiner, who was 24 years old, Tyner was on death row for murdering Tony's parents. Bill and Myrtle Moon.

Tyner was originally from New York but was passing through the area. He murdered the moons during a robbery of their store. And this Tony Seymow was frustrated with the justice system. And Gibbs, I think he felt as though Rudolph Tyner was never going to be executed. He didn't want to wait. He wanted to take. take justice into his own hands. So what Pee We did is he first befriended this tiner guy.

Their cells were back to back so they could talk through the vents. Peewee attempted several times to poison him, but for whatever reason, he wasn't affected by the poison. It was almost as if, you know, he had some, let's call them bathroom issues, right, maybe some projectile vomiting. It was almost as if he had food poisoning. But he survived. Yeah, he survived. Peewee worked as a maintenance man in the prison. So he had access to various tools and to a number of different areas of the prison. So when the poisoning failed, pee we and Tony Simo made plans to build a bomb. Peewee arranged a phone call. And with Tony

he used code words and false names as they were kind of coming up with this plan. In the recording, Peewee said, I'll take a damned radio and rig it into a bomb. And when he plugs that son of a bitch up, it will blow him on into hell. And apparently somehow Peewee recorded this call. And he planned to use it to blackmail Tony Seamow. That didn't work. But what did happen is that it was later. used as evidence against him.

One thing I found interesting is that Peewee must have told his daughter Shirley about his plans because she went to police and told them that her father was planning to kill someone. They basically dismissed her and said, it's impossible. Yeah, he's in prison. He's in prison. There's no way he can build a bomb. There's no way he can blow someone up. But on September 12th, 1982, a huge explosion occurred on the death row unit.

Tyner was blasted off a toilet seat in his cell by a booby-trapped radio that essentially exploded in his hands. Tom Henderson from Sled later told the state that sounded like it was right up Pee-wee's alley. So I think he knew that Pee-wee was connected right away. For one thing, Pee-wee had previously told 12th Circuit solicitor Kenneth Somerford that he liked to keep dynamical on him just in case he wanted to blow someone up. Well, you never know. You never know when you might need some dynamite. Exactly.

So this guy responded, well, you must have had somebody in mind when you bought the dynamite. And Peewee reportedly said, well, I always had people in mind. Apparently he had considered blowing up three or four different people, including his wife, his mother-in-law. but I think what this conversation did was it showed that peewee had some knowledge of explosives and it kind of linked him at least somewhat to Tyner's death. When the facts came out, it was learned that peewee smuggled in plastic explosives. I have no idea how you do that.

I'm just hoping it wasn't the one way that people smuggle things in the prisons. in a certain cavity. Yeah. I think a lot of things are smuggled in to prisons using that method. It's not the most hygienic method, but it seems to be pretty effective. I think there should be times you just say no, you know? One time you should say no. I think a lot of people should say no to a lot of things that they just don't.

Yeah, exactly. They refuse to do. So he took these plastic explosives. he fashioned an electrical bomb to look like a radio. He instructed Tyner to walk a few yards away and press the talk button to see how the device worked. And Pee Wee pressed the button when the device was right next to his ear. And this was nasty. Tyner's head was blown off in the explosion.

Parts of this radio device were found embedded in his skull. and almost all of his fingers on that hand were blown off. After the explosion, Peewee flushed the wire down the toilet and came out of his cell, pretending to be confused like the other inmate. So, I mean, go back to this guy, right? We talked about him dropping out of school very early. He didn't get a lot of formal education. But obviously, he had some street smarts.

There's no doubt about it. He learned how to manipulate people. Somehow he learned how to make this explosive device. I couldn't make an explosive device, especially in prison. I couldn't make it in my workshop here at home. You don't have those McGaver's kills. I don't. But I think he did.

Well, like he said, he was a mechanic at an early age. So he had that fundamental mechanical type know-how. Yes. Well, and let's not forget how much time he probably had on his hands. But police found the recording of people. planning to make the bomb. This was the recording that he had made. He thought he was going to blackmail Tony Simo with it. So I think, you know, essentially based on that Gibbs, Pee Wee was found guilty of murder. And, you know, by this point, capital punishment was reinstated.

He was sentenced to death in March of 1983. And basically every few months leading up to his execution, Pee-wee told the police that he could lead them to more bodies. So, okay, maybe a little Henry Lee Lucas going on here. You give me some privileges, take me out on some trips, and I'll tell you where some bodies are buried. On one of these trips outside of the prison, Pee-wee hired someone to help him escape, but that attempt failed.

But we knew that he'd like to try to escape a lot back in the day. Yeah, he was actually fairly good at it. He even once made plans to kidnap a solicitor's daughter and hold her hostage in exchange for his release. But none of these promises ever led to the finding of anybody. So I think pretty quickly, police stopped listening to him. Peewee began working on a book with his attorney Grady Query. We kind of talked about it a little bit in episode one.

after all the trials and appeals were over. Query asked him, Peewee, why don't you tell me what really happened? And this is when he just started talking. He confessed over 50 murders, over a span of about 30 years between 1953 and 1982. According to the Folly Current, he told Query,

I've been over every one of them in my mind. And I don't see where I have. any other choice. This statement floors me. Sure it does. Because to my knowledge, there's not a single murder that we've talked about where any type of self-defense was involved, any type of, you know, danger to his life. So to say that he had no other choice, it's astonishing. Yeah. Well, he didn't have to rape and murder people. He chose that. I don't know, according to him, he had no. He had no other choice. There was no other way to go about it, which I think is why it's so ludicrous when you say it out loud like that. From 1990 to 1991, Pee Wee worked with author Wilton Earl

on his biography, Final Truth. The book was based on conversations between the two men during the last 15 months of Peewee's life. Peewee Gaskins was executed on September 6th, 1991 at the Broad River Correctional Institution, Gibson, he was only 58 years old. You think about, you know, over these past two episodes, all the things that we've detailed out and the number of years that those crimes spanned. It was a long time.

Yeah, what I think you have to look at is the fact that his crimes started when he was 11 years old. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think that's why it seems as though. You know, he was active for so many years, which he was. But then he was executed at 58 years old, which, you know, is fairly young. Sure. But it's just because he started so young.

I mean, no, he was even active in prison, right? In 1982 with that bomb murder. I don't think this guy knew anything else. Would you agree with that? Oh, absolutely. I mean, his entire life was how can I satisfy my urges, where's my next victim? What can I do to get some money?

It was just, you know, one thing after another. And like you said, even in prison, you want to pay me to kill somebody? Sure, I'll do that. In the hours before the execution on September 5th, Gaskins tried to take his life by slitting his wrist with a razor that he smuggled into a cell. So his execution was set for just after midnight. But that wasn't good enough for Peeway, right? He wanted to die on his own terms.

But the suicide attempt failed. He was given medical treatment and prepped for his execution. At 1 a.m. he was strapped to the electric chair. When he was asked if he had any last words, he said, I'll let my lawyers talk for me. I'm ready to go. The electricity was turned on at 104 and shut off at 107. He was pronounced dead at 1.10 a.m. So only two minutes. That's all it took. Very quick. A voltage and then pronounced dead four minutes later. The only witness to the execution was Peewee son Donald Jr. So in a sense, that's kind of sad. Now, do you feel bad for Peewee Gaskins? No, absolutely not. But think about a person's life. What do you want it to be? When it's all said and done, Gibbs, when it's your time to go, what do you hope for?

I think most people would say, you know, they hope all of their friends and family turn out to celebrate their life. Yeah, more than their passing, but celebrate their life and, and all that. This guy was such a piece of garbage that the only person who was willing to show up for his execution was his son. Yeah. No other family, no friends, nobody. They didn't want anything to do with them. And it's kind of hard to blame him. The guy was an absolute monster.

Right. So Gibbs, as we wrap up this case, you know, there's still a bit of mystery surrounding Pee-Wy Gaskins. He's been declared a suspect in 39 murders that most likely will never be solved. You never say never. You know, when you think about South Carolina, it's a state full of small, small, towns, a lot of friendly people. The friendliest Walmart I've ever been to was in South Carolina.

Yeah. Now, they were slow as all get out at the customer service desk. I went to return a cooler while I was on vacation. But man, were they friendly. They just were not in a hurry. They probably appreciate you bringing all that beer in that cooler too when you returned it. You know, I wouldn't do that.

I got to take the beer out first. When Peewee was arrested in 1975, I think a lot of, lot of people in South Carolina were shocked that a South Carolina native could be capable of this level of such extreme violence. And then when the book Final Truth was released, people were really shocked to read about, you know, some of the gruesome details of Peewee's crimes. I don't think there's any doubt in the state's history. There hasn't been another killer as evil as Pee-Wee Gaskins. And for decades, he's held that reputation as the meanest man in South Carolina. And I think he might hold on to that. I think he might until someone else comes along.

Now, you said, could he hold that in some other states? Maybe. Because again, I go back to, we really don't know the full extent of his murders. Right. And we say it all the time, but it is true. It's true with serial killers. You know, they embellish or they downplay. Do they forget some murders? If you've killed 20, 30, 40 people, is it inconceivable that you might forget about some? I don't think it is.

But that's it, Gibbs, for our episodes on Peewee Gaskins. He was a special kind of evil. I'll say that. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's hear those. Hey, Mike. Hey, Gibby.

This is Stephanie from Durham, North Carolina, by way of Queens, New York. I was just listening to the most recent episode regarding P.E. Gaskin. And when Gibby asked Mike, if he knew the movie where the guy said, it's just me. It blew my mind because I remember that movie. It was payback with no good friends. Anyway, I love you guys. These are stories that I may have heard before, but I love the spin you put on it. You guys are hilarious.

I'm team Mike and team giddy. And I love listening to your podcast. The first podcast I listen to when I come to work every Monday morning. So just keep doing what you're doing. Keep your head on the swivel. Keep the mace in the pocket and keep your own time ticket. You're just mean, man. You're just mean.

So love the voicemail. And this happens every time you do the movie reference thing. So she is exactly right. That's what you were thinking about. Right. What's so funny was as soon as we got done recording the episode, you instantly remembered the movie. Yeah. And you told me what it was, the whole everything about it, Mel Gibson payback.

But the other thing that always happens is I get a whole slew of emails. Some people saying it's payback, but I've also received three or four other movies. Sure. Yeah. With a line that says you're mean or you're just mean. so but it was payback that's the one you were thinking about that's the one it was in my mind hi mike and gibby it's wiki from hull in the ukia i wanted to leave a voicemail for ages and i've decided today's a day um all your ukic emails are always from really eloquent

southern people uh so i thought i would give you an insight into a northern yorkshire accent um i've just finished the anthony kirkland episode um i've started all the way from the beginning and I absolutely adore the podcast. I really, really do. You're both amazing, but I am deaf for a teen, Fergie, but I love you too, Gibby. Anyway, I just wanted to leave your quick message, so stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

I really like that Northern Yorkshire, accent. You just say accent in a different way, and you think that's going to emulate her sound? Yeah. Now, I like hearing the different accents, especially in the UK, because I'll be completely honest, before you and I started doing this podcast, before we started getting voicemails and really hearing from a lot of people over there, I didn't realize that the accents were so varied. Yeah, you saw, thought they sounded just like Hugh Grant.

Pretty much like they are here in the United States, right? Different parts of the country. People sound differently. And obviously it's the same over there. Yeah. Now, where's the Peekeye Blinders accent come from? More of a Scottish accent, I think. Right?

Irish, Scottish. Well, the show's set in England, so I don't know. Yeah. Didn't know either. Great Britain. Great Britain. But you just said it's more of a Scottish Irish accent. Okay.

Yeah. All right. Yeah, something like that. Is it? Yeah. I'm going to have to go back. I can listen to that because I think you're wrong. Go ahead and say it too.

I know you're really happy that, you know, she's team Furgy. Well, we don't get a lot of them. So, yeah, I'll take them. We don't get a lot of them. You? I don't get a lot of them. Yes, you do. Hi, Mike.

Hi, Debbie. Mallory here from Pachipsy, New York. I wanted to give you a shout out and say, I enjoy listening all the time. I travel a lot for work and you keep the company in the car. I have to say team Gibby, you're both wonderful, but Gibby has a nice laugh, so I have to go with that. A suggestion for the future would be Kendall Francois, the Pekipsy Killer, confessed to kill eight sex workers in between 1996 and 1998. Very interesting story. Keep your own time kicking. Thanks.

Pekipsy. I like that. Pekipsy? you just like saying it or saying it's fun okay yeah i wasn't really sure what you were going for there but uh yeah that case is definitely on the list and it's a it's a very interesting case i probably need to move it up because i thought about doing it a couple of times have we i think i even worked on a little bit once and then i kind of put it aside right went on to something else happens to me all the time you do but i'll get back to it hey my kate giving my name's adam long time Listen for first time, caller.

Love your podcast, love the relationship you guys have going. The back and forth is great. I used to live in a town named Gillsberg, Illinois, and there's a story I haven't heard a lot of people cover, so I figured I'd tell you about it, maybe a little bit anyway. His name is Antonio Santa Maria. He decided that he didn't want to get a divorce. We'll put it that way.

And I figured I might tell you that. Maybe you can take a look into it and see if you guys like to air it at some point. Until then, stay safe and keep your own time taken. Thank you. Wow, man. Yeah. Yeah. Sounds fascinating.

I actually like it when sometimes they don't give all the details because I'm very intrigued. Now I want to go find out. And you know me. Once I start looking into it, chances are we'll probably do it sooner than later. Good teaser. Yeah, good teaser. All right, buddy, we had nothing in the mailbag. So that's it.

Okay. For another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike And Gibby Stay safe and keep your own time ticking