True Crime All The Time - Ed Kemper Part 2

Episode Date: October 22, 2018

Ed Kemper is a serial killer who murdered 10 people. His victims included his grandparents and mother. Kemper is a huge man at 6'9" and almost 300 pounds. After being incarcerated, Kemper talked to the FBI about the reasons for committing his murders. This information greatly propelled the FBI profiling unit. The sessions played a large role in the first season of the hit Netflix series Mindhunter.Join Mike and Gibby as they continue the discussion on Ed Kemper. In this episode we dive into his co-ed murders that were fueled by the rage he felt for his mother and the eventual murder of his mother who he felt was the cause of all of his actions.You can help support the show by going to patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationPlease help support our sponsors:HomeChef - go to homechef.com/tcatt to get $30 off your first orderSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 101 of the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm hanging in there. Episode 101. Yeah, a little strange to say it that way. We're over the hump. We're over the 100. Yeah. Made it. We made it. We don't know where we made it too, but we made it. Yeah. We made it to 101. Yeah, that's all we can say. You know. All right. We have some Patreon shoutouts.

Let's do those. Oh. Did you want to tell them what arrived? Oh. The brand new chairs that we're sitting in, you mean? The brand new chair that you're sitting in. Don't start. This is the end.

This is the last episode that I ever want to hear about the chairs. Well, I mean, I got the hammy down. No, you did not. I got your chair. I appreciate it. I appreciate it. I can't believe how good you've had it all this time. This chair is amazing.

that you've had. You got a very expensive office chair. You were just fiddling with all the lumbar and... Yeah, of yours. I didn't know. You had, it's all electronic, too. I had the wood slat at one where I had to, like, if I wanted to make it, like, a little higher, I had to get the phone books and put it underneath the wheels and get myself up a little higher.

Stag more wood on top? Yeah, you just hit a little button and it went, and it'd heat it, which, you know. The heated Z. Yeah. There are nice chairs, though. they really are yeah and i am going to take pictures of both of them and put them out there what are you going to do take one with yours and then move it over so they'll both be in the picture yeah we're at to see how that turns out how you do that your magical tricks your fake thing is over

it wasn't it wasn't true before it's definitely not true now can't believe you're going to say that man all right gibbs let's give our patreon shoutouts we had jennifer montague oh montagul You say ghoul? For Halloween? Halloween. You're adding Halloween stuff to the end? Halloween, yes. Barbara Stroudferry.

Ooh, Strouds Ferry. Kate Burke. Hey, Kate. Michelle Horn. Susie Davis. Hey, Susie. Ione Holcomb. Ione?

I think. It could be aloney. Alone? No, that doesn't sound right. Ione. Hokem. I'm going to go Ione. I like that.

Hokem. But that may not be right. Corey Wilford. Hey, Corey. Marcus. siperoni. Ooh, the siperoni. Or siperoni.

It's when you sip some pepperoni. It's a good. Aisling. Just Aisling. Just Aisling. All right, Aisling. Annalina Eynerson. Oh, Aynerson?

Yep. Thank you, Aynerson. Johnny Stone. Hey, Johnny. Don't be all stone. Daniel Chiliwa. Ooh, Tiliwa. We actually work with somebody with a name of

Tiliwa. We do. Is it spelled the same way? It is. Really? It is. Jolene Kelner. Hey, Jolene.

Lisa. Do you want to sing the song, Jolene? No. No. Not tonight. Would you say Lisa? Just Lisa? Just Lisa?

With I? Yep. All right. Samantha. Tim Meneas. Meneas. Amanda Walterman. Hey, Amanda.

Jacqueline. Hey, Jacqueline. Denise Nut Bears. Nut Beers. Hyphenated. Nut beers. Nut beers. and beers. Sounds like a winning combination. What else do you need? Marie Normandin. Hey, Marie.

Julia Watson. Samantha. Samantha. Ed Valiente. Oh, the valiantiante. And David, how you doing? How's your wife? What's the famous actor? Sarah Paulson? American Horror Story. Yeah. Yeah. She doing good. All right, Gibbs. Let's go back into the vault. This week we selected Megan Marie. Hey, Megan. So appreciate that. Megan's been with us a long time. We appreciate all the support. New folks, the people that stick with us month after month, it is amazing.

We also had some PayPal support Gibbs. We had Deborah Pfeiffer. Hey, Pfeiffer. Samantha S. Our buddy. Oh, Samantha S coming through. And Autumn Pipes. Hey, Autumn Pipes.

And we had a September Patreon merch winner. Oh, yeah. Which is Julie Bailey. Hey, Julie. Hope you enjoy whatever you decide. I think I said last week that I hadn't heard back and she finally, yeah, she got back with me. Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. No, it is. Now we have a Patreon episode out, a new Patreon episode. We do. On Richard Bigginwald. Yeah, so he was a really bad individual. He had a really rough childhood.

He did some terrible things at a very early age and it would follow him throughout his rest of his life. Some pretty devastating stuff. For those of you that are on, Patreon. You may have already listened to it, but if you haven't, go check it out. All right, Gibbs, are you ready to get into Ed Kemper Part 2? Yes. So is everybody else. I know they are. We're back to finish out the Ed Kemper story. Now, if you haven't listened to Part 1, I highly suggest that you go back. Listen to that one first. It'd be weird not to listen to that first. You could do it, but it wouldn't, I mean, I guess they would stand alone. It would just, you'd be missing out if you didn't hear the first part.

That's true. It's like watching like the movie and then going back and seeing the prequel. Okay. I'm just saying it's like watching Godfather, the first one. Right. And then waiting for part two and watching that because it goes back in time. Part two came out after part one. That's not an apt comparison at all.

I was just, but no, most likely, but you really, so I, I, I know like I think it was HBO or somebody did it where they they took all the godfathers and they weed them in the correct order of how chronologically. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's not quite apples to apples there what you're talking about, but I get you. Yeah, you know, people understand what I'm saying.

Don't you people. So let's just do a little recap. Okay. We got 6-9 Ed Kemper. Big boy. Big boy, rough childhood. Yeah. Hated the way that his mother treated him.

Absolutely. This caused him to harbor a lot of anger towards her. Resentment. He tortured animals. He had violent sexual fantasies at an early age. And he murdered his grandparents at age 15. Yeah. Just a highlight reel there.

And was sent off to a hospital for the criminally insane. Yeah. I think that covers it right there. Very quick recap. Yeah. Now, we ended episode one with Kemper being released to the custody of his mother. who was living in California. He started to go into college,

but he was dealt that major blow Gibbs when he found out that he was too tall to fulfill his dream of being a police officer. But it didn't stop him from wanting to be one or wanting to be around police officer. Yeah. You know, Kemper bought a motorcycle. And, you know, unlike a lot of people in the 70s

and early 70s, Kempher kept his hair short and neat. High and tight. Yeah, he wasn't, you know, letting it grow out. He wasn't into the whole hippie thing. He did kind of, he was more conservative. Were you ever in the hippie scene letting your hair grow out? Oh, yeah.

I had hair, but not. I wasn't alive like you were to be a part of the hippie movement. Well, that's true too, yeah. I wasn't even born yet. Yeah, either was I, but all right. He walked into that one. I did. What's the longest you ever had your hair ever been?

Never. I mean, just never had it long at all. No. It does like the weirdest things. If it even grows out too far. Yeah. It got a lot of weird cowlicks and then it grows sideways. You did have a lot of hair at one time. I did. And it was thick and luxurious. It was. The dreams you have at night. I know. I have pictures to prove it. But what Kemper did was he hung out at a bar called the jury room. And this was a bar where a lot of police officers drank when they were off duty. Yeah. And they all got to know Kemper.

They call him Big Ed. Who, yeah. What else you're going to call him? Little Ed. 6-9-300. Yeah. What else you're going to call him? But hey, Big Ed.

Big Ed. How you doing? But what most of them, and I'm assuming all of them probably didn't know, was that he had killed his grandparents when he was 15 years old. Yeah. Oh, that's weird, man. So to them, you know, he was this polite, respectful guy that liked to sit around, have a beer and talk.

Yeah, they probably said, you know, how's your parents? You got any grandparents? And he probably said, I loved him to death. He probably did. Yeah. No, not, I was getting ready to say knowing Ed. I don't know Ed. Right.

But thinking about the way that Ed thinks, he did kind of have this dry sense of humor. I mean, if you watch him or listen to him. some of his interviews. Yeah, a lot of people like how he talks, how he communicates. Well, we talked about the last episode. He's very intelligent. Yeah. He's articulate.

You would sit next to him at a bar, strike up a conversation and think, all right, it's a smart guy. He's interesting. He's got good stories. Right. Yeah. I'll have a beer with this guy. Yeah.

Why not? Just don't go home with him. I mean, he would sit and talk, you know, with the officers for hours. He talked about different types of guns. and ammunition and which ones were better than others comparing and contrasting. He liked to do that. He was kind of a connoisseur of guns and knives. So just another thing that you Gibbs have in common with Ed Kemper. I am a connoisseur of knives. You are some guns. So Kemper is living in Santa Cruz with his mother, Clarnel. I still can't get over that name. It's such a strange name.

Carnell. Clarnel. I've never heard of that before. short for something. I've heard of Clara Bell. I've just never heard Clarnel. Clarnel. She was working at the University of California, Santa Clara, UCSC, as an administrative assistant. Okay.

So when the two were reunited, it was like old times. You want to sing it? Reunited and it feels so good? Yeah. No. Okay. Which normally when you say that, that's a good thing. Right.

But their old times weren't good. No. You know, she began berating and belittling him again. Nobody likes that. Just as she had done years earlier, it's like she didn't, she didn't miss a beat. She's like back on top of it. Kempter would later talk about this as the impetus for his murders that are going to come later on. Yeah.

And we have to talk about Santa Cruz a little bit. You know, it's a touristy beach town south of San Francisco. But in the 1970s, there were a lot of murder. running around Santa Cruz. Vampires too. Yeah, we've talked about it. Herbert Mullen was one of them. We've already profiled him.

We're talking about Ed Kemper now. There was also John Linley Frazier, David Carpenter. There was a guy named Billy Mansfield that did most of his killing in Florida, but also lived and killed. What did he vacationed there? In Santa Cruz. Isn't that where the lost boys was from? Yeah, I think you're right, Gibbs. I'm sure we're going to get to a lot of their stories, right?

We're going to tell the stories of these people eventually. Right. But back then, you know, they were calling Santa Cruz, California, the murder capital of the world. See? Ohio is not that bad, folks. It just seems strange. You think Santa Cruz, California might go on vacation there. Yeah.

On the 70s, it's probably not something you wanted to do. Oh, we wanted to stay far away. Come to Dayton, Cleveland, Columbus. Well, I wouldn't advise any of that, but, you know, people were dying at the hands of these killers, serial killers, spree killers, mass murderers, and an astonishing rate during that decade. Now, Ed had several jobs. And all of this time period, we're talking about, right, the murder of his grandparents to until when he begins murdering coeds and becomes the co-ed killer. But he landed one job eventually with the California Highway Department. And with this job, he earned enough money to move out of his mother's place.

And he moved to Alameda, which is closer to San Fran, and shared an apartment with a friend. But as Kemper would later say, the move didn't stop the nagging and the bad mouthing from his mother. He's not even living in the same house. They're not living under the same roof, but she'd call him and nag him. She was just going to be in his ear no matter what. Yeah. I mean, she was going to put him down no matter how she had to do it. Yeah.

There's just people who like to do that, man. And if she had to send a note on a carrier pigeon that said you're a piece of shit, she'd figure out a way to do that. She'd have the pigeon deliver a note that said you're a piece of shit. Wow. It took a shit on him. Maybe. If she could have pulled it off, I think this woman would have done it.

You'd be like, really? Really? You're going to do that to me? Yeah. And again, you have. have that anger, you have that rage building inside of Ed Kemper, and eventually it's going to be unleashed. And you heard Kemper talk at the end of episode one about this date that he went on. I actually kind of got a kick out of that clip how badly the date went. He didn't have

relationships with women. Right. Except for the one that he had with his mother, which we know was horrible. Yeah. Did you ever have a bad date? A bad day? A bad day? I have a bad day all the time. A bad date? Yeah. Um, no, I never actually had many dates, to be honest with you. Yeah. You know, I got married fairly young and I had girlfriends, but I didn't go on a lot of, like, dates or blind dates or what you would think of as dates like that. So I don't remember, you know, having a bad date. Well, that's good. How about you? Uh, that's a weird ones for sure. Some strange ones? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Some like, like, you're like, uh, this needs to be over now.

Well, you know, when you, I was going to say if you use like the hookup sides, but back then they didn't have those. So I don't know what you were using. Maybe the, you yelled out of your window. Hey, yo, hey. You want to go on a day? Yeah. Now, I talked a little bit about Kemper and his motorcycle. And, you know, it pains me to say it because I don't like thinking about it Gibbs, but he got into a couple of accidents.

One of which must not have been his fault because he got a pretty nice little settlement out of it. I saw like 15 grand. It's a good chunk of change in the early 70s. Yeah. What would that be today? Man, that'd be almost like getting $90,000. Beepo, people, peepo, boop. I'm supposed to do that before you spit it out, but you split that out pretty quick.

I wasn't even hesitating. I was like, boom. You know, I like to fancy myself a much better, more cautious motorcyclist than Big Ed. I don't know that to be true. But I do like to picture Ed on a motorcycle. I couldn't figure out what kind of. I like to think of him as riding like a little 250. So really just like you see his body.

You can't see the motorcycle at all. Just like wheels coming out of his ass. Yeah. He just dwarves like this whole motorcycle. Yeah. It's like when those dads ride those little mini bikes. Yeah, a little toy. Yeah.

But they actually go. Yeah. And they're up and down their street. Yeah. I think that's what he would, what he would have looked like. But he took some of the settlement money and he bought a Ford Galaxy, which he thought looked like an unmarked police car.

So going back to his fascination with police, and it would be in this Ford Galaxy that Ed Kemper would begin his search for victims. His trolling vehicle. This is what it would. But he's got to outfit at first. Right. So he puts in a CB.

He installed one of those large antennas. Oh yeah. 104 good buddy. He packed the trunk with his killing tools. Oh, good. BTK action. Right. So he's got a blanket. He's got his guns, his knives, his plastic bags. Yeah.

But he's not ready to kill anyone. But he's, he's, if he needs to, it's there. Well, right, it's there. But he's going to spend over a year gearing up for murder. So he would ride around in this car and he would pick up female hitchhikers. And while they were sitting next to him in the car Gibbs, he would fantasize. about, you know, he had his sexual, his violent sexual fantasies about these women, but he also studied them, you know, how they reacted to him to the things that he said. But ultimately, he delivered all of these women to their intended destinations. But he's training.

I don't know of a better word to say. It's almost Gibbs as if, as though what someone would do when they're, let's say, training for a marathon. So there's like rocky music in the background. Well, I don't know that he had Rocky music because Rocky wasn't out yet. Oh, yeah. This is the early 70s. Yeah.

But he's training for murder. Yeah, sure is. He's picking up these women. He's perfecting his demeanor with these women while they're in the car. And he's judging their reaction to different things that he says. He did this, like I said, for over a year. Something like over 150 hitchhikers. Yeah.

He estimated over 150 women. That's a lot, man. That he picked up. Yeah. Could have murdered, maybe all of them. He could have murdered as many of them as, as he wanted. Yeah. But he didn't.

And I found that fascinating. It's, you know, his intelligence and, you know, he's prepping for this. Now, I don't know, Gibbs. If I walked over to a car and I looked in and I saw Big Ed, I might think twice about hitching a ride. But most women didn't. You know, he was able to pick up as many women as he wanted. And most of them had no qualms about getting in the car with him. Now, he was doing this in college towns.

Yeah. So that makes a difference. You know, there was a lot of hitchhiking back then. We've talked about it many times, but especially in a college town where back then, one of the primary modes of travel was hitchhiking. You might hitchhike because you need to get to class. And you and I gives, we talk about brushes with death. And you have to think about these, whatever the number was, whether it was 150, 100, whatever, it's a lot of women.

I mean, I just wonder how many of these saw the newsletter and they were like, that's the guy that I hitchhiked with. That was him. That could have been me. I guarantee a lot of them. I would just be like, just seeing that on the news, just freaking out. I just know I would because you knew how close. Because by that point, they probably laid out the M.O. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. And the other thing I think about is you're not going to forget Ed Kemper.

No, because he's got that presence. I mean, he's a big guy. Right. You're not going to forget taking a ride with a 6-9 guy, 300 pounds. You're going to remember him. All right, Gibbs, let's take a minute to talk about our sponsor, Home Chef. Listen, there's a lot of options out there. How can you decide what meal delivery service is best for you? We all have busy schedules. We all have busy schedules. We're working a lot. We're working late. We're traveling. It makes it tough to go to the grocery to get everything you need to prepare a meal. Home Chef offers 16 different delicious meal options each week, from steak to chicken to seafood to vegetarian. Once you join, all you have to do is select your meals and customize your delivery dates. Your box will arrive on your doorstep each week with recipe cards and fresh pre-proportioned ingredients.

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And it was so easy to make. So go to homechef.com slash teacat for $30 off your first order. That's homechef.com slash teacat for $30 off your first order. Homechef.com slash teacat. On May 7th, 1972, Ed Kemper would transition from what I'm calling his training and observation to murder. And he would explain in an interview why he chose the young co-eds that he did. They represented not what my mother was, but what she liked, what she coveted, what was important to her. I was destroying it.

So it always goes back to his mother. Yeah. His mother's a central focus for sure. So on this day, he picked up two female hitchhikers, Marianne Pesh and Anita Lucchese. And he picked them up near Berkeley University. They had been at Berkeley for a couple of days and were headed to Stanford when they accepted a ride from Ed Kemper. Now, what Ed did once the girls were in the car, he acted like the passenger door didn't

shut all the way. And he reached over to shut it. Like I said, you know, this, this guy's pretty big. I'm sure his arms were very long. He could reach over and grab the handle. Oh, easily. On the passenger side door. But while he did this, it was said that he dropped a, like a tube of chapstick behind the latch.

And you know, these, remember the old door latches? Yeah. So whatever this chapstick had the effect of not allowing. the latch to work. So if the passenger got scared and tried to make a run for it, could, you know, try, tug on this handle all you want, but until you took that chapstick out, the door was not going to open. So I think number one, it goes to his intelligence, but number two, it goes to the amount of time. Over a year that he spent planning all of this out in his head, he drove the two women to a remote area, pulled his gun on the,

them. He forced Anita into the trunk of the car, and then he attempted to strangle Marianne. But it didn't work the way that he thought it would. And so he ended up stabbing her repeatedly and cut her throat. Then he went back, opened the trunk, and stabbed Anita to death. From the first time, what I had wanted to do was to secure them and to suffocate them with plastic bags over their heads. I had some completely unrealistic perspective that that was quick, that they would lose consciousness rapidly. But the first young lady that was in the back seat,

that was Mary Ann Pesh, I finally secured her. She argued a lot. She was dialoguing, trying to change up control of the situation. She had already decided I was in control. I was trying to gain control. I was convinced she was in control of it. So for about 20 minutes we were arguing back and forth

over what was going to happen. And I was trying to keep it away from what was intended, which was murdering. And I decided at that time I wasn't going to tell anyone I was going to rape them. I didn't say that at the time, but I left that wide open as the avenue that it's going to be a sexual release.

And that got them very distressed. And it was obvious to me that if I was going to pursue what I was doing, that distress had to stop. So again, Gibbs, you know, you get a lot of insight from Kemper because he talks so dagon much. He does. But he's also very, what's the word I want to use? Just very, a matter of fact, nonchalant.

Yeah. Is that what you're saying? I'm not sure. But also, I don't want to say compelling, but. Well, I think he's fascinating. I'll say that. go. I didn't want to use the word fascinating. No. There's like a something similar but lesser of...

Right. There's a, there's a strange, yeah, compelling is a good word. But to hear him talk, to me, it is fascinating, even though what he's talking about is, you know, it's so wrong. It's such a, you know, such horrible things that he did. But you get to almost in a way go into his mind. He's telling you, you know, hey, I thought it was going to be easy. to suffocate someone. I found out that it wasn't. And then also, he realized at some point during this encounter that it wasn't going to be as easy to do what he wanted.

These women put up a fight. And he realized that he was going to have to kill them. So after he murdered Marianne Anita, he took both women back to his apartment. He dismembered them. He decapitated them. But he kept their heads. with him Gibbs for some time. It's weird, man.

It is very strange. He kept a lot of heads and he did. He had sex with a lot of heads. He did strange things with victims heads. He did unspeakable things with them. Now, he buried Marianne's body in a plastic bag and then he scattered the remains of Anita. Yeah. And eventually, after he had done what he felt he needed to do with.

the heads, he dumped them as well. I was losing a grasp on something that was too violent to keep inside forever. As I'm sitting there with a severed head in my hand, talking to it, or looking at it, and I'm about to go crazy, literally. I'm about to go completely flywheel loose and just fall apart. I say, wow, this is insane. And then I told myself, no, it isn't. You're saying that.

And that makes it not insane. This is me back then in 1972 and 73, unable to live. live with the fact that I just stabbed to death and cut the throat of an innocent young woman. Innocent in the sense that she did not plan on that happening. She didn't do anything specifically for that to happen to her, yet she was a very active participant in her own death. And in my memory of that, she was 19 years old, and her roommate in the trunk who died right after that was 18.

I didn't go hog wild and totally limp. What I was saying is, I found myself doing things in an attempt to make things fit together inside. I was doing sexual probings and things. I mean, in the sense of striking out or reaching out and grabbing and pulling to me, but appalled at the sense that it wasn't working. That isn't the way it's supposed to be. It isn't the way I want it. Sometimes Ed Kemper doesn't make all that much sense to me.

You know, he does talk in circles sometimes. Circle sometimes. And he says things that to me don't make a lot of sense. You know, he said that this woman was an active participant in her death. What the hell does that mean? Because she was there. She was a participant. No, no shit.

No, you know, he took her life. I don't know. Some of that stuff he says, I don't get where he's coming from with some of that. Now, the head of Marianne Pesh was found on August 15th in a ravine. But the remains of Anita Lucchese were never found. But there were some newspaper articles Gibbs that came out back during that time frame right after Marianne's head was discovered. And it was reported that the pair were seen on May 13th together.

And then that Anita was seen as late as June 6th. But as we know, this couldn't have happened. Both were killed that day that they got into the car with Ed Kemper. So the reports had to have been of, you know, mistaken identity or somebody that thought that they saw these women. But there's no way they could. have. Now, Kemp are still hanging out in the jury room, talking with his police buddies that he's gotten to know, but now he's a murderer. Well, technically, he's been a murderer, right? Yeah.

But now he's a, he's an adult murderer. He's active, actively killing people. He's an active murderer. He's an active murderer. And you would think, at least I would think, the thrill for him of talking with these police officers probably greatly increased after he began, you know, killing these women. You know, I know something you don't know. I'm sitting right next to you. You don't know that I'm the murderer. Yeah, it's kind of like the cat and the mouse game. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing is he's the only one playing it. He's the only one that knows there is a game. Yeah, so he thinks he's really winning good. Sure, because, you know, like you said, if you don't know you're playing that game, of course you're the other guys went in.

These officers are going to be shocked later on to find out that the guy that they drank with, the guy that they swapped stories with was out there murdering women. Yeah. On September 14th, Kemper picked up 15-year-old dancer Ikoot, who was hitchhiking to her ballet class after she missed her bus. And at some point, during this car ride with Kemper, she started to get very uneasy. I think she started to panic a little bit. She thought there was something wrong.

Well, you've got that feeling before. Sure. Like of impending doom or something's not right. Yeah. I've been there. I've had that. He drove her to a remote spot in the mountains. But Gibbs somehow, as he was preparing to murder this girl, he locked himself out of the car.

He couldn't find his keys. Now, his gun is in the car under the front seat. and this 15 year old girl is in the car too, but he can't get in. So essentially, if she knew, you know, she could have reached under, got the gun, got away from Ed Kemper. But somehow he managed to get her to open up the car door for him. And within minutes, he placed tape over her mouth, then tried to suffocate her by sticking his fingers in her nose. Well, big guy, big fingers. That's true.

Yeah. Now, she passed out, but she was still breathing. So he repeated the same thing again until she died. Kemper took her out of the car and raped her post-mortem. Yeah. And then just to make sure that she was dead, he strangled her with her own scarf, then put her body in the trunk and drove home. Yeah, then he gets home and then he dismembers the body,

takes the head off, different parts of the body off. And he just gathers them about randomly in different locations. Now, we talked a little bit about it in episode one, you know, about Kemper having to see a number of psychiatrists after he got out of a taskadero. And they all found him to be well. And I'm using air quotes around well. But just a few days after he murdered Iko Koo, he went to see a panel of psychiatrists. And this was when. he was trying to get his juvenile record sealed, which he was ultimately able to do.

But one psychiatrist wrote that the motorcycle Ed Kemper Road was more a threat to his life than he was to anyone else. Meanwhile, Gibbs, this poor girl's head is in the trunk of his car while he's in with this panel. Yeah. And the psychiatrists who are giving him, you know, the two thumbs up. Yeah, you're good. You're healthy. No problems. Mental status could. But what you don't know is I have a head in my trunk that I've been driving around with. I mean, you can't make this stuff up. If you made a story like that up, people would laugh at you and say it's not plausible. Now, sometime after the murder of coup, Kemper had to move back in with his mother. And we know from past experience that this is not going to turn out well. Kemper would later say that, that, you know, many of the times that he killed came after some type of fight with his mother.

Sure. He's frustrated and he needed to take some type of revenge. And he, you know, instead of taking out of her, he went out and took it out on innocent people. Yeah, it was like he was releasing the anger he had towards his mother. He was misdirecting it towards these co-ets. Kind of like Norman Bates. His mother died. Yeah, but he still had like issues with his mom, even though she was, you know. No, he had mommy issues. He dressed up in her nightgown. Yeah. On January 8th, 1973, Kemper bought a new 22 caliber pistol and also on the same day, selected his next victim. 19-year-old Cindy Shawl. Kemper picked up Shawl while she was hitchhiking to a class at Cabrillo College or Cabrillo. I'm not sure. I'll get mail for that one. It's Cabrero. That's the one thing for sure. I know it's not.

You might say, but you about me surprised. That wasn't even a real sentence. It's, uh, there was like three, at least three missing words from that sentence. It's like a new language. It's a new language, man. He drove her up into the hills near Watsonville and shot her in the head with his, with his new gun. But Kemper no longer has a place of his own. Well, it really wasn't his own, but he was sharing an apartment with somebody.

So he ends up sneaking Cindy's body into his mother. into his mother's place where he's now staying and into his bedroom. And the next morning, he waited for his mother to leave for work. And then he had sex with Cindy Schall's dead body. So weird when we talk about. He is definitely into necrophilia. We've done plenty that do that. Yeah, we have.

I just don't. I mean, the body's not even warm. Well, you don't need to get into all of the specifics of it. I'm just saying it's not a warm body. No. So it's a dead body. That too. Now he dismembered her and he even took special care to remove the bullet from her skull. So again, is that intelligent? Is that smart? By my way of thinking Gibbs, it is. You know, he ends up burying her skull in the backyard about two feet into the ground with her skull facing up towards the window. And he threw the rest of her body parts. And he threw the rest of her body parts. off a cliff into the Pacific Ocean. Yeah. I say, I think it's smart that you would go to the trouble to remove that, that bullet,

but then you're going to marry, you're going to bury it anyway in your backyard. So I always think that's the stupidest thing. It is. When these guys bury things in their own yard. I, you know, I would say it's very smart to do that if you're going to dump it, you know, 50, 60 miles away from your house. But if you're burying something in your backyard, doesn't, you know, it doesn't matter if it's got your bullet in it or not.

What are you going to say? Somebody else buried that skull in my backyard. Right. Not me. Although that's smart to bury it in your neighbor's yard. I would just throwing it all off into the Pacific. But that's not Ed Kemper. Right.

His mind doesn't work like that. He's an intelligent person. He has a high IQ, but he has other forces, you know, working inside that brain. Right. And to him,

you know, he thought it would be better. Now, there was talk about the fact that he had an extra special attraction to Cindy Shaw. And that's why he wanted to keep a piece of her. And he didn't with some of the other women that he murdered. There was something about her that really, you know, kind of drew him in to her. But didn't take long for some of her remains to be found just the next day. they washed ashore on the Santa Cruz beach.

I mean, just imagine Gibbs. You're out frolicing in the surf. I don't frolic. You're a frolicer. You frolic, I don't frolic. You know, you're running and skipping and laughing. And all of a sudden, these body parts wash up. I think shark.

Shark attack. Would you? At first. With all of the research and about serial killers that we do? Oh, no. I mean, back then. Back in 72. Yeah.

When you were, when you were 20 years old. When I was six years old. So I'd been like, oh, shark attack. Cindy would be identified by fingerprints that they took from her severed hand, which was, you know, one of the things that washed up. And they also were able to compare chest x-rays against some that she had previously taken. So we move on to February 5th. still in 1973, Ed and his mother get into this huge argument.

Again? Again, which I assume was very, very regular. But after this, Ed stormed out of the apartment. And he told his mom that he was going to the movies. But he was amped up after this fight. And he was ready to murder. He would later say Gibbs that in his mind, he knew that the next good looking girl he saw was going to die.

Easy as that. In fact, though, that night, he picked up two hitchhikers. Yeah. So he first picked up 23-year-old Rosalind Thorpe at around 8.30 p.m. And just a little while later, you know, Rosalind's still in the car. He picked up Alice Liu. And Kemper would say that he spotted Lou. She had her thumb out, hoping that someone would stop and give her a ride.

But he said she didn't hesitate to get in the car. Number one, there's another woman in the car, and you know that would make a difference. Rosalind is in the car. They look like a couple. But this time would be very different. Maybe it's because of what transpired earlier that night, this huge fight that he had with his mother, the adrenaline, all of that. He doesn't drive to a secluded location.

He doesn't, you know, take the women out and do what he had done before. He doesn't even stop the car. he shot Rosalind in the head with his 22 as she was looking out the window as he was driving the car. Now, she was killed immediately. Kimber then turned to the backseat and shot Alice several times, but she didn't die right away. Right. She's probably trying to dodge the muzzle of the gun and he's just shooting and getting her. Well, she was hit, but, you know, not in the back of the head.

22s to the body. Yeah, but as soon as you saw the first person die in the front seat, you know, I would be dunking down below. So he's, you know, he's getting some shots in, but he's not probably able to get the shot in at that time. He did this while they were still on university grounds. Yeah, it's pretty bold. And drove through the campus security gates with these women slumped in his car.

He continued driving and didn't stop until he found. a quiet cul-de-sac. And that's where he stopped the car and he shot Alice at point-blank range killing her. He took both of the bodies out of the car and put them in the trunk. She's getting a little more brazen, right? Shooting people while the car is moving on the campus. Kemper drove back to his mother's apartment and he parked the car. But again, he would do something different this time.

He wouldn't, you know, sneak these women into the apartment, into his bedroom. he opened up the trunk and beheaded both of the victims right out of the trunk in view of, well, impossible view of other people. Sure. It was getting easier to do. I was getting better at it. I was getting less detectable.

I started flaunting that invisibility, severing a human head, two of them at night in front of my mother's residence with her at home, my neighbors at home upstairs. Their picture window open. The curtains open. 11 o'clock at night, the lights are on. All they have to do is walk by, look out, and I've had it. So that's him talking about it. Yeah.

Cutting heads off outside from the trunk of your car. Yeah. No big deal. Not to him. No. Now he drove out of Santa Cruz this time to dispose of the bodies. He dumped the bodies of both women in Alameda County, about 60 miles away. They were found there later that month.

and then the heads and hands he dumped in Pacifica. In later interviews, Ed Kemper would explain why it was so easy for him to pick up female college students. My mother worked at the campus and I had an A sticker on my car, an obvious access day or night to the campus. I was picking up some very lovely young women. You know what we were talking about as we're driving around almost as often as not? This guy that's going around doing this stuff. And the second they started talking that, they didn't realize it, but they were getting a free ride. I couldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole, I swear.

But they'd be telling me what all about this guy in there comparing notes and speculating on what he looks like, how he carries himself, why he's doing this stuff, telling me about it. So a couple things in there, right? We talked about his mom working at the university. Yeah. She got him a campus sticker. And as these murders started occurring, there was some fear right around these college campuses. And Bolton started going out saying, you know, don't accept rides from anyone that doesn't have a campus sticker. Well, guess what? Ed Kemper had a campus sticker.

Yeah, you just gave him total clearance. Clarence. Clarence. What's your vector, Victor? Exactly. Surely you know. I do, but don't call me surely. Now, the second part of that interview that I wanted to talk about was him saying that he picks up these women, they start talking about him.

Obviously, without knowing they're talking about him, he's getting off on that. And he basically says that if anybody would start to talk about him while they were in his car, he knew he couldn't kill them. And I found that fascinating as well. right he's so enjoyed having this conversation with a woman who is talking about the crimes that he's committed that he wouldn't kill her now i couldn't find any specifics on this gibbs but kemper claimed in an interview that he picked up two women after you know the the first six murders but he let them go i picked up two girls who was so much like the first two it was unbelievable, almost identical circumstances.

And I let them go. Everything went towards killing him, and I didn't. But I'm saying, wow, it's uncanny. It was almost like it was meant to be that way. And I said, wow, I've got this got to stop. And I let them out. They never even knew what was going on. I let them out.

I would have gotten away with those two being murdered. I said, no, it's got to stop. And a week later, I murdered my mother. Went back to Santa Cruz and killed her. So there's that? So there's that, which we know is coming. but I think it's important because it's a week before his next murder, which is going to be his mother, he picks these two women up.

He easily could have killed them. You hear him say it. But something in his mind said, I don't want to do it. It's got to stop. And how thankful are they? If they knew. If they knew. Yep.

That they were in that mix, man. It's like hitting the lotto. Oh, yeah. big time. But it's also important because this is the start of his thought of I've got to kill my mother, right? For this to stop, which he says he wants it to stop, it can't stop until he gets to the root of the problem, the source of the problem. And that's been his mother all along. Exactly. For him. Yeah. So he's made the decision. He's going to kill his mother. Now on Good Friday, Kemper and his mother got into a huge argument shocker again he sat in his room fuming about this argument he was so upset with her

and his mom went to bed he's sitting there trying to figure out what he's going to do and in the early morning hours he went into a room with a claw hammer and hit her in the head now i'm trying to imagine gibbs the force that a six-foot-nine 300-pound man can generate with a hammer That's a scary thought. It is, man, because I can swing a hammer, but man, six foot nine, 300 pounds. Yeah. That's a lot. I mean, you're a big, you're a big tough guy, but you're not six, nine, three hundred.

No, but I can swing a hammer. I believe it. You want to swing hammers? I don't. Okay. Is this like you hit me, I hit you? I go first. Because it seems like it'd be a short game.

I go first. With only one winner. I can go first. We'll play. But after this hammer blow, which again, I just imagine as, extremely brutal. He slid his mother's throat and eventually decapitated her. He cut off her hands as he had done with some of his other victims.

But with his mother, he took out her larynx and he tried to grind it up in the garbage disposal. Just tells you how deep this went, right? I mean, he's trying to destroy the noisemaker. That is, right. That was in his mom that's now dead. it's not going to make any noise, but he just wants to just grind it up. To him, that is, you know, the part of her where all the nagging came from. And he's going to literally physically destroy it.

But he can't. The garbage disposal is not strong enough to chew up the larynx, you know, all the sinewy, tissue, whatever all that is, whatever it's made of. And Kemper would talk about it later, right? the connection between the larynx and his mother's incessant nagging. Now, Kempter had sex with his mother's head, with her head. This is really messed up. It's all messed up, but that seems, that's at the tippy top.

Mike, that's crossing the line. I mean, it's all crossing the line, but that's like. I just said it's at the tippy top. Yeah, that's just more disturbing than the rest. But after that, he played with it. And when I say play with it, he sat her head on a shelf and he threw darts. at it. Poor girls like that are going to die.

And that's when I decided I'm going to murder my mother. I knew a week before she died, I was going to kill her. And she went out to a party. She got soused. She came home, went to sleep. I was woken up by that. I got, came out. I walked up to her bed.

She's laying there reading a paperback as many thousands of nights before. And she said, oh, I suppose you're going to want to sit up all night and talk now. I looked at her, I said, no. I said, good night. And I knew us. I was going to kill her. You know? And I'm so cold, it's so hard.

And that's the first time in 10 years. I've looked at it that way. I mean, that intensely, that honestly. Because I'm not a lizard. I'm not from under a rock. I came out in her vagina. See? Came out of my mother.

And in a rage, I went right back in. for seven years she said i haven't had sex with a man because of you my murderous son is one of our arguments i cut off her head and i and i humiliated her corpse it's a dare you know six young woman dead because of the way she raises her son and the way her son is raised the way he grows up and what's her closing words I suppose you want to sit up all night and talk God, I wish I had Now I know that's a longer clip

But that one's fascinating There's a lot to that one You know you have that line There from Kemper That is kind of is really big in the show Mind Hunter right Where the actor playing Kemper You know says that line

Well I guess you want to sit up all night and talk but you hear him crying. You hear him talking about how he grew up and how he was mad that his mother caused him to murder these six young women. There's a lot of stuff in that one. But Kemper's not done yet. No. He has murdered his mother who, you know, in his mind was the source of his evil, right?

The evil that he perpetrated. But he gets it in his head that. he needs to kill someone else inside her apartment or else the police are immediately going to zero in on him. Right. If it's just his mother dead and her head is missing. Right. It wasn't an accident. Yeah.

She didn't die of natural causes. The suspicion is going to fall on him. So he wants to broaden it out. Yeah. Make it look like maybe somebody broke in. So he invites one of her friends over. This is a woman named Sarah Howlett. and I think he says that, you know, hey, come over for dinner.

It's a surprise. You know, my mom will be there. When Sarah arrived, Kemper strangled her with Ikootoo's scarf, the same scarf that he, you know, strangled her with. Yeah. And then later that night, he had sex with her corpse. Sick, dude. Very sick.

Now, after these murders, Kemper headed east and a rented. car. He had it loaded down with guns and ammo. And he drove 18 hours straight. Well, you know, essentially stopping just for gas and to get something to drink and to get some nodos. Because you need nodos if you're going to. No dos. I remember no dos. If you're going to drive 18 hours straight. He made it to Pueblo, Colorado. Okay. I know you love Colorado Gibbs. I do too. You and I have been out there a number of times. Yep. And it was in Pueblo that according to Kemper, he decided that he needed to turn himself in. So he actually calls back to Santa Cruz, to the police there and told them that he was the co-ed killer. And he also told them, you know,

where they could find the bodies of his mother and Sarah Hallett. But at first, they didn't believe him. And keep in mind, most of those guys know who he is. Right. I mean, they thought he was bullshitting them. Right. He actually had to call several times and go into, you know, to more details about other murders. To get the attention. To get them to believe him that he was telling the truth. So eventually they do,

and they coordinate with authorities in Colorado, and he's arrested on April 24th, 1973. Ed Kemper would confess to all eight murders. But one of the big questions, I think Gibbs, is why did he give himself up? Was he worried that he would be connected

to the murders of his mother and Sarah Howlett? which he probably would have been. Yeah. He wasn't on the radar. As far as I know, as far as I could tell, for the six co-ed murders. I don't think his name was on anybody's radar. Keep in mind, he's drinking on a nightly basis

with the police officers of Santa Cruz. They don't know it's him. Now, I'm sure there are a number of reasons. But one that Ed has talked about was that after he killed his mother, the original purpose for all of it was no longer there. She was the driving force behind it all. He's, you know,

he's quoted as saying, I just said to hell with it and called it all off. Yeah. It's like he ran out of steam or he ran out of the, the anger or the fuel after he killed his mother. Exactly what happened. Maybe he needed to do that. Look, hey, for anybody to die,

but if you maybe did that early up front, and those other women would be alive today. The six other women wouldn't have died. No, I get that. But I think he was working up to it. I think it was always going to happen. If you look at the master plan probably for Ed Kemper, I think the ending was always going to be,

at some point I'm going to murder my mother. Yeah, it's just a struggle, you know? I mean, the conversations you have with your own mind, those are tough conversations, you know? I know they are for you. You've talked to me about those and the demons and saying it's it's a it's a struggle for everybody no it is and we're not making light of it but you heard him in in one of the interviews saying he started murdering coeds because of his mother you know his mother worked at the college she doted on a lot of these young girls she looked after them she tried to help them out so he was going to kill some of these young women and in a sense punish his mother. After the authorities got him back to Santa Cruz, Kemper led them for over a month to some of

the various places where he had disposed of bodies. And he gave the authorities every minute detail of every single murder. Imagine that gives. Imagine sitting in a room with Ed Kemper. We know some of the horrific, awful. grew some things he did, and he's telling you everything. Oh, it'd be terrible. And the even bigger part of that would be if you knew when he walked in,

you're like, I drank beer with that guy. Yeah. Just the other night he wanted to know if I wanted to take a ride with him. Yeah, it would be very strange. But I think he reveled in telling authorities the details, right? I'm sure he in some way probably got off on it, right? drudging these the details back up and and kind of living through them again. Kemper pleaded innocent by reason of insanity to the charges filed against him for the

murders. You know, it's always kind of strange gives to me that someone would plead innocent, you know, either I'm sorry, not guilty or innocent by reason of insanity after they've already confessed and given, you know, all of these details that only they could have known. And in fact, they led police to a, you know, a bunch of the bodies. But what else could his attorney do? You know, Kemper really hadn't left this guy with many options. What's interesting is that Kemper's attorney, a guy by the name of Jim Jackson,

just happened to be the same guy that represented Herbert Mullen. Remember, they kind of overlapped each other. But you've got to listen to all the way out there things that Herbert Mullen did. then you've got to represent Kemper and hear about all those details, that'd be rough. Jackson was quoted to saying, Kemper was perfectly normal except for when he killed people. But other than that, Gibbs, he was a swell guy. You hear that a lot about some of these guys, man.

If they would just not murder people, they would be great guys. Be a great neighbor. Could be another co-host of a podcast. Could be a co-host right now. We don't know. Could be. Kemper's trial lasted five weeks. And of course, the prosecution laid out all the evidence against him.

Jackson said that the police didn't have enough physical evidence tying Kemper to all the murders. I noticed that I said not all. They had evidence connecting him to some of the murders, physical evidence. And then on top of that, they have him turning himself in, admitting to the murders, leading police to the dump sites, just a tad bit of information that only the killer could have known. But I get it, right? We talk about this a lot.

Defense attorneys, it's their job. They've got to try to do what they can do. It just wasn't much this guy could do. I mean, he could have been the best attorney in the world. He wasn't getting Ed Kemper out of these murder charges. The prosecution also played Kemper's tapes. which I'm sure hit home really hard with the jury. This is him in detail talking about what he did, how he committed these murders.

All the defense could really do was put up witnesses on the stand to try to convince the jury that Ed Kemper was insane. They can't convince the jury that he didn't kill these women, but the prosecution was able to counter every witness. And the six man, six woman jury found Kemp or guilty of eight first degree murder counts after about five hours of deliberation. So it took them five hours. Yeah. Maybe you got an hour for lunch in there. I don't know. Right. Obviously, the jury was not convinced by any of the witnesses that the defense put on the stand. So the verdict is read. And after the verdict, sheriff's deputies handcuffed, Ed Kemper. And there's a picture from back then showing these

guys putting the handcuffs on. And I'm telling you what Gibbs. It looks like a bunch of kids standing around a full grown adult male, essentially grabbing him by the wrists. Yeah. It's, it's almost comical how big this guy is in comparison to most. you know, adult males. This guy was just so big. He was, it was massive. Now, it's sentencing the judge said to Ed, you're being sent to prison for the term of your natural life. He also said, may God have mercy on your soul, Mr. Kemper, but you understand I have to protect the rest of the people from people like you. And strangely Gibbs, I never heard him say it, but I, I think Kemper did know that.

I think he was smart enough to know that I did what I did and I'm going to have to go to prison. I think he did too. But the judge went a step further and he suggested that Ed Kemper never be considered for probation or parole, right? I mean, he couldn't set that, but he made that suggestion. And I think in large part, this came from some of the things that Kemper said in his taped interviews. For one, he said that if he were freed again, he would likely kill again. Ed was sent to

the California medical facility in Bacaville for observation and to serve out a sentence. Did you say Bacaville? Vaca. Vaca. Vakaville. With a Vee. Sounds like a pastry. A Vacavacaville. But made with vodka. Oh, vodka. Yeah. Vodkaville. That's what I'm saying. Actually, it sounds like a town where people drink vodka and eat and eat pastries made with vodka. Yes. Yeah. So he's in Vacaville. He had attempted to take his own life multiple times prior to and I think maybe even during the trial.

I think in one attempt, he tried to slash his wrist from parts from a ballpoint pen. All right. Tried. Yeah. Kind of hard to do. But we have to talk about this California medical facility. There's a couple of other people. there that you've heard of. One's Herbert Mullen, which we profiled. The other's Charlie Manson at the time

that that Ed was there. And apparently, Ed Kemper didn't think much of either of these guys, especially Herbert Mullen. He didn't like Herbert Mullen at all. He called him a cold-blooded killer killing everybody he saw for no good reason. And he talked about Mullen. I think they brought this up in Mindhunter too, but he talked about Mullen and had had, this habit of singing and doing it to bother people while he tried to watch TV. So he would throw water on him, you know, to get him to quiet down. Then he said when he was a good boy, I'd give him peanuts. Herbie liked peanuts. He called him Herbie. That was effective because pretty soon he asked permission to sing. That's called behavior modification treatment. This is this is Kemper saying

this about Herbert Mullen. When Kipper became eligible for parole in 79, 80 time frame, but he's been denied every time. That should. Yeah, I mean, this is a guy gives it. I don't think they'll ever let out again. They never should. But even at his first couple of hearings, he told the parole board, quote, I don't see a place for me in society ever again.

And the state of California has more than enough reason to keep me locked up for. for the rest of my life. I have to say eight people are dead and I murdered them. Probably not the thing you want to say to the parole board if you have any hopes of getting out. Exactly. But the question is, does Kemper think he'll ever really get out? Does a guy like that having done what he did think that anyone is ever going to let him back out on the street? I can't imagine. I don't know what goes on his head, but I think if he was logical, about it, the answer would be no. So Kempers still there.

He's still at the California Medical Center. He's been described as a model prisoner. You know, at one point, they put him in charge of scheduling other inmates' appointments with their psychiatrists. Okay. They like him. Yeah. He even received an award while he was in prison.

He was for his work on a project for the blind. Apparently, he read an average of 28 hours a week. It was over 5,000 hours. Yeah. So he was reading these books into a microphone. I should do that. Making audio books. Talking to a microphone for a living?

You should. Yeah. And also read books to people. You should just read books, period. Should make that a goal. You'd have to start reading books before you could start reading them to other people. It should be fun. We should get a random book off the shelf and I should read for five minutes.

At the end of the podcast. the end of the podcast? Yeah, for those that want to hear it. And then we'll track your progress, like, over the next 100 episodes. Is those books over? Is that what you host? Those call books? Yeah, those are multiple bookshelves holding lots of books.

Yeah, we'll just grab one of those and randomly turn to a page and just see how Gibby does. I say we go for it. Yeah. But he was, you know, he's reading all these books into tapes or into microphones making these audio tapes, said that he produced 1.75 million feet of tape. That's quite a bit. It is. What would that be in today's? Would it be the same amount of tape. I was trying to trip you up. I was waiting for you to spit out like just a higher number. Four point one. Yep. I was really going to come down on you. But you didn't fall for it. Beep-bo, beep, beep, boop. I know. The hours would be

the same too. It would have been really funny if you had, though. Yeah. So in the late 80s, Ed Kemper and John Wayne Gasey did an interview via satellite with Robert Ressler of the FBI where they talked about the details of their crimes. And I know this was by satellite. He wasn't in the room with them. But can you imagine sitting in a room with Ed Kemper and John Wayne Gacy where they're just sitting around talking about the details of their crimes? Or they're like, hey, man, how you doing?

I'm good, man. I never actually saw. I'd like to watch it, but I couldn't find it. And, you know, as we're wrapping up, we can't forget about the interviews that Kemper did with the FBI. We talked about it before, but these interviews really help the FBI profiling program get off the ground. You know, they use the information that they derive from Ed Kemper for, you know, for years to come.

Sure. In helping to provide profiles of other serial killers. Yeah. I mean, it was a big turning point for criminal investigations. And then I wanted to find some information about Ed's biological sisters, but I couldn't find any. But while I was researching that, I stumbled on this article about, from his stepbrother, where he talked to the media. Okay.

And it was really about how fearful the family was that Ed may one day get out and come after them. So again, I don't think he's ever getting out, but there's some people in his family that have a, have a fear of it. Yeah, but you're going to know ahead of time. You wouldn't know ahead of time. And you invite your friend Smith and Wesson over. It wouldn't just happen like where he'd show up like the time he showed up on his dad's doorstep. But that's it. That is the end of the Ed Kemper story.

Well, big Ed. People been wanting to hear it. Episode 100 101, you got to hear it. And it was a good one. It was. Again, I've always been fascinated by Kemper for a lot of reasons. Not really so much about his crimes. He was brutal. Yes. And he committed some very horrific crimes. Very heinous. For me, it's more about the motivation and what was going on in his mind and the interaction with his mother and really how it shaped his entire life. I think if you were a psychologist, anybody in that realm, very, very. intriguing because you're trying to figure out how someone's mind works that way. Yeah. And I think that that's why the FBI profilers hit paydard. Sure. When they were able to sit down, number one, that he was a, that he was willing to share so many details of not just the what, but the why.

Yeah. And they were able to develop, you know, what boxes need to be checked to determine what the outcomes could be. Yeah. Yeah. All right, Gibbs, we've got some voicemails. We do. Yeah, you want to check those out? Yeah, let's do it. All right. Hey, Mike Gibby. This is Jamie, old crime combatty.

I'm from Michigan. Listen, you guys really cracked me up this week on the podcast. First of all, you mentioned Loaded for Bear, okay? I thought that was only my family that said that. Maybe it's very common, but I've never heard any else to say that. So I laughed audibly at that moment. And then you started talking about the cars. And just to let you know, my very first car was a 1969 Chevy.

Nova. It was a beast. But if I had a deer, I was coming out the other side. But then Givie went on to say that he had a Chvette. I did too, Giddy. And it had the worst stereo in the world. And I cranked the ASTD. It didn't matter. But it was the whole way. I didn't care. And it was a manual transmission. And to this day, I refused to drive an automatic. So you guys just made me laugh. It took me back to some really old days. Anyway, I hope all as well. Look forward to seeing you guys again in New Orleans. Take care. Bye. That's funny because my one ringtone is back in black. Is it?

Is he DC? That's all I'm saying. So we love that. We can't wait to see you again as well. Now, what I want to know Gibbs is did she go from the Nova to the Chevette? How disappointing would that? Now, if you go the other way, you're in Hog Heaven. But you go from a 69 Nova to whatever, an 80 Chavet.

My brother had a 68 Camero. Mm-hmm. One of my favorites. Jacked up, looked good, wrapped it around a telephone pole, went out and got a 76 Camaro Raleigh Sport, dressed to the T. Wrapped that around a telephone pole. Yep. Did he really? Yeah.

Oh, I was just making fun of it. No, it was bad. And then, so here I am, my turn to drive. This is your older brother. My older brother. Yeah. So, yeah, so I went out and the only thing they ever let me drive was Chavez. which so I went out got a Chvette you know you should bet I get it from the you're not going to drive this so fast but from a safety standpoint I don't know was Chabette I don't know if any cars were that safe back then but the funny thing was is like year later my brother and his friends took the Chvette out wrap that around no they took went around so he had like his three three buddies in there they were all six two six five kind of guys and they were all big guys and they rolled the Chavette on a hairpin

turn. Yeah, I did the same thing. I wasn't driving, but I rolled in one too. Yeah, they got out, they flipped it back over. You came on home, but it was all banged up, dented up. And it was yours. And it was mine. Oh, that's nice of them. Yeah. Oh, good. Look at that. Unsafe at any speed. Yeah. Hey, Mike and Gibby. It's Pierre speaking from Cape Town. I left you a message a few weeks ago, but I think it might have got lost along the way. I think I might not have ended the call. But I just want to do thank you. As always, you can. I've really entertained me every single day. As you know, I do a long commute for about three hours every day.

And I just, just love your podcast. I've been signing yours the first podcast I've ever found. And I've now sort of gone looking for other crime podcasts. And I have yet to find one that needs up to the one that's true crime all the time, unsolved as well. And I just want to tell you to know. I love the two of you and the way you interact and the casualness of it. and it just makes me smile.

So just keep doing what you're doing, and just keep bringing us such great entertainment and value, and we are easily awaiting each new episode every Sunday. So thank you for that. And take it and keep your own time ticking. I'll have to say I'd love the South African dialogue. Or dialect.

That's a tool. I don't know what you're. You sound like you're from Finland or like a, it's almost more like a Scandinavian. You're right there. You just offend it. All the Scandinavian people. Why?

They're like, that's not Scandinavian. No, it sounds more like that than, I don't know what it was. Yeah, I don't know. But we love hearing from our fans in South Africa.

It's awesome. Yeah, it's amazing. Thank you. And she talked about, you know, a voicemail getting lost. Sometimes they come through and there's nothing there.

And I don't know if that's, that's like an issue with our system. So if anybody ever leaves a voicemail and they don't hear it, that means like it didn't come through or sometimes the sound is really bad and I can't understand it. And obviously we can't play it. So call back, leave it again. Yeah. Twice. Just in case. It's funny. It be a lot. It's really enjoyable to me. Both of you could record yourself. Certainly you guys will butcher that and it'll just be hilarious for me. Now, you know, like to go Google it or YouTube it, what it actually is, and say it.

Well, Gibbs, we love Samantha. We would do anything for Samantha. Well, that is the Monster of Florence. The Monster of Florence. I don't understand. I think she wants you to say it in Italian. But it's that me saying in Italian. It's a monster of Florence.

The Chef Byrdie is not actual Italian. Because sometimes you do reverse, like reverse. So it's like Florence of Monster. Yeah. No. I mean, I saw it. It's like El Mestro de Florentia, maybe something like that. Melestra de la Florante.

Does he just say menstrual? I swear you did. I'm going to, I got to play that back. I swear you did. You said menstrual. I don't know if that's it or not. Feed it to me one more time. Let me see if I can do it.

I know I can spell it, but I don't know how to spell it. but I don't know how to say it, so I'm going to go, El Mestreo de Floreencia. El Mestra del Floreencia. That time you said, I think you said Minuto. Ministio or something. You remember Minuto? You probably had all their records.

I was in Minuto. You probably were. I was like the fifth beetle of Minuto. You were, yeah. I don't know, Samantha. Let us know how we did. Again, we followed your directions, didn't look it up. So we love you.

We love you for sure. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Doc from New South Wales, Australia. I'm a coaching officer. I'd like to tell you, you guys do a wonderful job of getting the line between respect and comedy just perfectly. Now, I like to also use your podcast as a learning tool for inmates in my groups. We listen to them and discuss them later. Hopefully they're not learning anything that they shouldn't be.

which they probably not already are anyway inside. Yeah, no, I just really appreciate you as work, and yeah, I'd love to hear some more Australian episodes. Thanks, guys, and keep your own time ticking. Oh, raise the lights. What'd you say? Raise the lights. What is it?

Razor lights. Now you're saying razor lights. Raise the lights? What am I supposed to say? Rise up lights. Oh, rise up lights. Yeah, see, now it sounds like razor blades. Before it sounds like razor lights.

I'm going to watch a bunch of Wentworth. again. Is that what it is? And the women prison show from Australia. I never watched that show. But we are big in Australia. We need to do another Australian case. I need to fly there, but I don't have, like the 24-hour flight or something in it.

Yeah, I'm not. That's a long time. That's too far from me. It's all over the ocean, too, which would freak you out. Yeah. It would. I'll go there. The whole time, I'm white knuckling.

This thing's going down. It's going down. But he said he was using it with, you know, inmates or something, Gibbs. I've actually gotten some emails from professors who've wanted to use some of our episodes in their classes. Really? Which is really cool to think that some college kid has been assigned to listen to an episode of True Crime all the time. Do I get college credit? Yeah. Or can I be an honorary. I asked him if you could get an honorary doctorate. Yes. Which I know you've always wanted. I do. Just so I'll say doctor. So I have to call you doctor.

Well, yeah, because, I mean, right now I have to call you a novelist, an author. I think it's, yeah, author. It's not really a title, though, like doctor. All right, Gibbs, I have to make an admission about the mailback. You've been skimming off the top, not giving me my goodies? No, I got, we got two things in the mail. One was like five Harley chips from Minnesota. Okay.

And I forget exactly what was in the other one. But I sat down and I sent out a letter with some stickers saying thank you. Well, good. But I threw away the envelopes before I recorded it. And now I don't know who sent us what. Well, I guess if you sent something and you didn't get a shout out, please send me an email. Yeah, let Mike know so we can do it right.

Yeah. So I felt bad about that. Yeah. And if you sent stuff and you meant to send me some goodies and I didn't get them, well, you know why. Because I ate them. All right, Gibbs. That was it.

That's it for Ed Kemper. Let me ask you a question. Sure. That was a whole episode of you sitting in your new chair. Yes. And me sitting in your old chair. Oh, Jesus. It was pretty comfortable with this old chair of yours.

But how was your new chair? Exactly the same as your new chair. Well, my new chair is an old chair, but new to me. I get what you're saying. It's not. I don't know if I've got my settings right. I got to mess with my settings. Yeah.

Yeah. Got to tinker. Because this thing has a lot of things. has a lot of adjustment. But that's it for Ed Kemper and for another episode of true crime all time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.