True Crime All The Time - Elroy Chester

Episode Date: November 18, 2019

We're headed to Texas to discuss the life and crimes of Elroy Chester. Chester began as a burglar early in life and spent years in prison on those charges. After he was paroled he started right back up again. But, this time around, he was not content with breaking into homes and stealing things. He began committing sexual assaults and murders. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Elroy Chester's crimes. This is a death penalty case where the question was raised regarding Chester's low mental capacity. His low intelligence was pretty well documented over the years including tests while he was in elementary school that placed him special education classes. However, the State argued that the steps Elroy went through while committing his crimes showed a level of sophistication that far exceeded his IQ scores. Elroy Chester left a big path of destruction in the Port Arthur, Texas area. You can support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise and donation informationSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 157 of the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime Mike Gibson. Gibby how are you? I'm good man. How about you? I'm doing great. Good. You and I just got done eating a little Chipotle. We did. Or as you would call it Chipotle. Somehow it has a Y on the end of it. Depends what. Part of the country you're from. It does not. They are the same across the country and even into other countries, I believe. You never know. But it was good.

It always is for me. We also just got done recording our weekly Patreon video. Yeah. And making the announcement that next week will be coming out with a Patreon only full-length episode. So if you're not a Patreon supporter, now's a great time to sign up. Get on the Patreon wagon. Yeah.

Speaking of that, we have some new shoutouts to give. We had Dremah Hazelwood. Hey, Dremah. Jason Vandenhovel. What's up, Jason Vandenhoeven. Chelsea G. Hey, Chelsea. Annie.

Hey, Annie. Maria Montague. Dude, Montague. Catherine, you know. You know. You know. She jumped out at our highest level. Awesome.

Lauren Ashley Phillips. Hey, Lauren Ashley Phillips. Kevin Mann. What's up, Kevin? Amy Bill. Thanks, Amy. Aela Nichols. What's up?

Genevieve Terry. Genevieve. Heather Lynn Baum. Really? What's up, Heather? Michelle Price. Thanks, Michelle. Stephanie Forrest.

Well, thank you. Kay Kareen. Hey, Kay. Nikki Marie. What's up, Nikki? Diana. Thanks, Diana. Erica Figgs.

Like, the Lof-Figg Newton's man. But with a Z. Haley, Bilka jumped out at our highest level. What's up, Haley? We had Caitlin Cups. Hey, thanks, Caitlin. And Delilah Blue jumped out to our highest level as well. I feel like Delilah.

Is that like Delilah? The radio. You said, Delilah, is that like Delilah? Yeah, that's the same radio show, you know, Delilah, soft music. I don't know if that is. No, you know what I'm talking about? It's a good thing.

It's a famous radio show. Yeah, it's like, never heard of it. It's like Delilah. It's got our own music and opening song. No. No. I don't listen to a lot of radio, though. Yeah.

I listen to podcasts mostly. Yeah. And then if we go back into the Volgibs, all right. This week we selected Amy Rokamantes. Rokamantes. Been with us a long time. A really, really big time supporter of T-Cat. We appreciate that. I do. I just like saying her name. Yeah,

it's a cool name to say. We also had some PayPal. Yeah. Julie Shans. Hey, Julie. Andrea Young. What's up, Andrea? Patricia Lopez. Thank you, Patricia. And Eva's Natur Trapi. I know I'm not saying that right, but it's a very hard. It sounds really, yeah, it doesn't sound like nature. Trapas. Yeah. I'm not exactly sure how to say it and I don't know what it means, but. Well, thanks, Eva. Yeah, we appreciate that. All right. So right now, we have an episode out on true crime all the time unsolved. We're going back to the late 1800s. Yeah. To talk about some axe murders that happened in Texas. We are. A writer of the time dubbed this case the servant girl annihilator. Yeah. It's a very rough kind of title to give to this case. Now, I think the name was given and we'll talk about it as the murders were going on they went on for

a period of time started out they were all serving girls right well later on they weren't no the last two we're definitely not so the moniker doesn't quite fit but it kind of stuck by that point so definitely check that out what else man what else am i forgetting uh the reviews are in oh the reviews are in yeah make sure you check that out we're getting a lot of good feedback and especially a lot of suggestions. Like that. Which is awesome. I like the suggestions.

All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I'm ready. We're also headed down to Texas. So both cases this weekend, T-Cat and T-Cat Unolved take place in Texas. Because we're going big. We're going. We're either go bigger or go home.

Yeah. And it doesn't get any bigger than going to Texas to talk. to talk about admitted serial killer and rapist Elroy Chester. Gibbs, this is a guy that would break into homes to rob, rape, and murder when he was finally caught. And he confessed. He ended up getting the death penalty. But this is a case.

And we've had a couple like this where Chester's low IQ or mental impairment was put forth as a reason for why he should not be executed. This is also one of those cases, Gibbs, where the majority of his crimes, the real, the murders and the rapes occurred after he was parole. So that will be something to talk about. I know you always have something to say about that. Definitely will. One report said that this was the worst one man crime spree to ever hit the area of,

Port Arthur, Texas. And that's very believable. I mean, when we get into these crimes, some of these are extremely brutal. So let's jump right in. Elroy Chester was born on June 14th, 1969 in Jefferson County, Texas. Couldn't find out a lot about his childhood. I'm not sure that it's extremely important. What I do think is important is that from about the second grade on, Chester was placed into special education classes. Again, you know we're going to talk about his IQ, his mental impairment, right, his difficulties in that area. His sister was said to have helped him out with some of really even the most basic skills. So obviously the school system had some documentation showing that Chester was functioning at a low level,

they had to have had it to make the decision to put him in special education classes. I think it's important because this whole idea of the fact that he had mental difficulties or impairments or whatever word you want to use, it's going to be the basis for his appeals later on. Now, there is some debate as to what the school test showed. I saw some reports that his IQ was under 70 while some reports said it was above. And that could be because there were different tests and different test scores. But in the research, and I don't know if this is the same across the country, but back in the day in Texas, 70 seemed to be the kind of the line. Really?

Is what they were saying as far as classification. Okay. And maybe that related more to the death penalty, you know, whether somebody was mentally deficient to the point where it was really illegal or, you know, they couldn't be put to death, right? The U.S. Supreme Court has said that at a certain level, you can't, you can't put somebody to death. Right.

They've ruled that. The problem is, and what. we'll talk about it later, what exactly is that line and who makes that determination? Yeah, otherwise it's going to move it around, you know? Yeah, because most of these cases, and this is one of them, don't get picked up by the U.S. Supreme Court. You know, these individual death penalty cases, they reject most of them. They don't hear the arguments.

You should allow the state to take care of their own business. Well, I think the U.S. Supreme Court is very selective. Obviously, there are tons of cases that people want heard before the U.S. Supreme Court. They can't hear them all. They're very selective. They also, in my opinion, tend to shy away from some that they just don't want to get embroiled in. Yeah, no, I definitely get it. Now, it does appear that Elroy Chester made it through high school.

His education level is listed as 12 years. by the Texas Department of Corrections. So Gibbs, I'm taking that to mean that he made it through high school. Would you agree? I would agree. Normally when you see 12 years, that means graduated high school. I don't know how hard it would have been to get through high school though back then, but hey, I made it through.

Well, I wasn't going to say that, but since you bring it up, no. I think there are a lot of people that have made it through high school that themselves would tell you. Yeah, I probably shouldn't have made it through. Now, I also think in the past, there were schools that said, man, we do not want that Mike Gibson back for another year. Right. Moving forward. Whatever you have to do so that he walks and is handed a diploma.

Please do that. Because the teachers are all going to quit. Yeah. If they get that Mike Gibson back. And I'm just using using an example. I never understood why I had to take Jim four times and one semester. You know, I was like, I was just in gym for four periods in a row. Because they.

I got all age. Yeah, because the other three they used for biology, science, whatever. English. But really, it was just you taking nothing but gym classes, which they knew you were really good at. I could climb that rope, man. I think another important thing in Chester's background is that he began burglarizing homes as a teenager, fairly young. By the time he was 18, he was a redneck. on some of these burglaries, and he got more than a slap on the wrist. He received a 10-year sentence

for some burglaries, and then he got a 13-year sentence pretty much at the same time for other burglaries. Good. That's not a slap on the wrist. No, that's what you want to see. You know, we talk about crimes that people commit early in life. Most of the time, you and I are shocked by how little time they got, but not here, right? These sentences are no joke. 10, 13 year sentences for burglary seem pretty stiff to me. Now, he's not, he's not going to serve them back to back. No, but we've seen people go away just for a couple years for a much more severe offense. Much more. I mean, we're talking sexual assault, attempted murder. Yeah. You know, things like that where they're like, ah, this guy's out in a year.

While he was in prison, Chester's IQ was tested and it was pegged at 69. So, you know, all of the test results seem to be in the same general ballpark. I don't think there's any doubt. We're talking about a man who was operating at a fairly low intellectual level. Would you agree? I would definitely agree. Three different tests at least. They're all in the 68, 69, 70 range.

This guy was not going to be able to party with you and Doogie in the Ivy League. It's hard to party with me and do Doogie. Doogie's a wild guy, man. Neil Patrick Harris is a wild guy in some of those movies. I don't know that he is in real life, but, uh, so he went to prison. Chester was paroled in 1990. He violated his parole in 1994. So he was out for a few years.

He was sent back. then he was paroled again in March of 1997 on what they called mandatory supervision. And it's really from here that this story takes off when his violent crimes are thought to have started and they took place over the next year or so. So he had been a burglar. He's not going to stop doing that, right? He's going to get out on this parole supervised, not supervised. I don't think it would have mattered within the next year.

After his parole, he broke into somewhere around 25 different houses. A busy guy, man. Pretty busy. Clearly he didn't learn anything in all those years. But now he's not only going to just break in and steal things. He's going to commit sexual assaults. He's going to start shooting people, killing some. Some people survive.

but he's going to leave a really big path of destruction. And I don't have the dates for all the break-ins. And obviously we wouldn't talk about all 25 anyway. But his first violent crime occurred less than six months after his release. Wow. So think about that. Goes into prison at a very early age. 18.

Parole'd ones can't stay on the straight and arrow. Pearl is revoked. He's back in prison. then he's released again. What's he going to do? Is he going to get a job at some big law firm? Is he going to go to Wall Street? No, he's not.

He's going to pick up right where he left off pretty much the only thing he knows. I'll say it's only skill set he has. Is breaking into houses. I think he did have a job. He was listed as a laborer. Probably did some construction. Sure. But he knows how to break into houses and he knows how to steal things.

Fast cash, man. It's easy money. But I mentioned 25 burglaries. I think it's pretty safe to assume that he resumed this career as a burglar pretty much straight away after getting out. Now, he didn't commit violent crimes that we know of right away. That took a little while, but not too long, right? I just said it, six months.

On August 3rd, 1997, Chester burglarized the home of a man named Kenneth Risenger. And it was from this burglary. This is one of the ones that I wanted to talk about because this is where he obtained a 380 semi-automatic pistol that he later used in the murders. So broke into this guy's house, stole among other things, his gun. then on August 9th, 1997, Chester broke into a home wearing a hockey mask. So like Jason? Yeah. I don't know if it was that tight, but he was wearing a hockey mask.

But during this home burglary, he encountered a 10-year-old girl. Now, Gibbs, he could have broke in. He could have taken anything he wanted and left the house the way that he came in. I'm not saying it's right to steal. people's things, but he could have done that and the people there could have replaced the stolen item. Right. That's not what he did.

No, he's going to be a piece of, you know what. Yeah. Yeah. So he encountered this 10 year old girl. He tied her up in a closet and sexually assaulted her. And I really don't want anybody to take it the wrong way. I'm not advocating for robbery or burglary, but given the two scenarios, man, you wish this guy would have just walked out with whatever he took.

Yeah, I mean, there was no reason that he had a sexual assault or none. I mean, burglaries, a home break-in can be very devastating for people. Sure. It's a breach of your security. But it doesn't compare to the sexual assault of your child, your 10-year-old girl. Change that girl's life forever. Yeah. Didn't need to.

Much more so than. a burglary would have. About a week later, he attempted to burglarize two different homes in the same night. At each home, he shot and wounded a teenager. There's two teenage boys in two different houses. Now, they both survived. Good. But this was, I believe, the first time that he was known to have shot someone.

Yeah. So at this point, he doesn't really care who he's going to hurt. It doesn't seem like it. And I think that's what I really want to get across from the story. If you believe everything that he has said and the documentation kind of backs it up, he was a pretty prolific burglar, was caught, was sent away. Okay, he gets out. He's going to pick back up where he left off, but he's not going to leave it at that. He's going to escalate it. First, a sexual assault. Now he's shooting it. people. It's going to lead to multiple murders. The very next month, Chester shot and killed a 78-year-old

man named John Henry Sepeda. So he broke into the Sapata home. John and his wife were a sleeping bed. This is something that's happened to me many times. Well, not that someone has broken into my house, but the fact that I hear a noise, I wake up, I go to investigate. Now, by that, time I've usually strapped on my Rambo slash Jason Bourne outfit. I have the night vision goggles. It's kind of like the final scene from Silence of the Lambs. But yet I'm the one with the night vision goggles. Right. You know how that is. I think it's scary. Right. When you hear something in your house that wakes you up and you don't know what it is. No, but you got to go find out. Yeah, because what are you going to do?

Just try to go back to sleep when potentially somebody could be in your house, somebody could be attempting to break into your house. Yeah. So different today, though. I mean, you think about it. Today, if you're a burglar, you've got to be really careful, right? I mean, with all the alarm systems and the hidden cameras. And, I mean, you could be in this room right here, there could be five different cameras. Look at me, I wouldn't know.

because you can disguise a camera. And there is. There is. Yeah, it probably is. In case you snap, jump over the table and strangle me, I want that on tape. Yeah. For a jury to be able to examine. Plus put it on YouTube, make some money.

Might do that too. Yeah. But I would not be alive. So. No, no. Somebody could, my family could be. I'd split it with your kids. Okay.

Yeah. From my jail cell. And today, I mean, with all the changes over the years with personal protection, I mean, you just don't know what the heck you're going to be coming into now. I'd be really careful about breaking into someone's home today. Yeah. So first of all, nobody should be breaking into anybody's home. No.

But to your point, I do believe that was an easier proposition 40 years ago. Oh, for sure. Nowadays, you're right. Cameras, some people have infrared now as part of their security system. system much harder to disable some of the current security systems. You know, you just can't cut the phone line like people used to do. Right. And, and this is something that we'll see when we talk about the crimes of Elroy Chester. That was part of his MO. He would cut the phone lines right from the get go. Add on top of the fact that, you know, there are a lot of people armed. Yeah. And it's no longer just the

Texas, Montana. I mean, there are a lot of people in different states that take their personal security very seriously. They're armed. Men and women. You just never know. So heed my warning. If you plan on robin something soon, you might not want to do it. I think you should just not do it anyway.

Yeah. You know, I get it. It can be a fast, easy way to make some money. Yeah. But the risks are high. Oh, my gosh. both in terms of getting caught and going to jail and in terms of, you know, meeting somebody that's willing to end your life because they think you're about ready

to harm them. Yeah. Even if you get away with it, meaning you get away that night, you're probably going to be found out with all the hidden cameras and. And forensics and advancements and all that. It's just not worth it. So let's get back to the Sepeda family. He's in their house.

but he's not just rummaging around in the living room. He goes into their bedroom where they're asleep. That's bold. Yeah. You're just going to be opening drawers in somebody's bedroom while they're laying there. And the noise wakes up John Sepeda and he sees this strange man in his bedroom. Chester pulls out his gun and shoots him dead. But before he leaves, he turns to John's wife, Lupe, and does he.

demands that she take off her ring and give it to him. So he takes off with her ring. Very bold, like you said. Yeah. You know, is it daring or is it at this point, I don't care? And I'm never exactly sure where that line is. I think it's a fine line for some people. Well, for him, it could be the fact that he doesn't care if he gets caught.

All he really knows as far as adulthood is the prison system. So he's probably like, I'll do this. this. If they send me back, I'll get to see, you know, Ricky and Jimmy and the rest of the game. So I'm good. But if I can make it out here a little bit, I'll do that too. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a good point, you know, goes in at around 18. He's really only been out for a couple of years at a stretch. And I think that was really during the part where he was on parole the first time. But I do think that line between, you know, being daring and, you know, And just not giving a, you know what, it's very fine for some of these people.

The interesting thing about the Sepeda robbery and murder case specifically is that police arrested three men very quickly after the murder of John Sepeda and they charged all three men with his murder. So these were young guys, 17, 20, and 22 years old. it wasn't until late February of 98 that police came out and said, okay, it's not these three guys. Yeah. It's actually Elroy Chester that killed Sepeda. So these young men, one was a minor.

They spent about three months in jail thinking that they were going to go on trial for their lives. Well, he ain't a minor anymore after spending three months in jail. Yeah. And he probably wasn't in the same jail as the other two. He might have been in a juvenile detention center. But still, you know, thinking that you're going to be fighting for your life for a murder that you had nothing to do with. I mean, you talk about tough. You know, what they went through. And I get it. It was only three months, but. Well, but you didn't know it was only going to be three months. So your whole mental prep work is, man. You know, then what their families went through. I'm sure they spent money on attorneys. You know, they didn't sleep. They were worried sick.

And then you get labeled, right? Yeah, your name is cleared later on. But does everybody know that part? Everybody knows you were a suspect or arrested for this guy's murder. Sure, it was on page one. Right. We've talked about that before. The retraction, yeah, sometimes a little farther back. I think some of this stuff is scary. When you think about, what some people go through who are later found out to be innocent. I guess the silver lining is you could say, well, they didn't spend 20 to 30 years of their life in prison. Yeah, those are ones that just anything over extended period of time just crushes you,

man, to know that someone just, they'll never get that time back. Because we know a lot of people have done that. Right. Before they're found out to be innocent. Now, the press had a field day with this. They blasted the police. Police came out and said that these three men were arrested on probable cause. And I couldn't find all the specifics on it, but it appears that one of the individuals of the three gave a statement that implicated all three of them.

So again, another case of someone innocent saying they were involved. in a murder. We see this a lot. We do. Just baffles me every time. And you never know. Was it through intimidation by police? Was it one of those situations where persons being questioned?

And they just can't take it anymore. Right. All they care about. All they won at that point in time is for the questioning to stop. And they're willing to say anything, whatever it takes for them to, to get out of that room and for the people to stop asking them questions. Sure. They have a 17 year old.

Maybe it was him. Yeah, I don't know which of the three. I couldn't find that. But I think this has gone on for a long time. I think we're really now just seeing how prevalent it really is that people confess the things that they really didn't do. Because I've always thought, Gibbs, and I think you and I have talked about it, if I didn't commit a murder and the play.

and the police hold me in and said, hey, we know you did this. I feel like there's no way that I would at any point say, okay, I'll say whatever you want me to say to get out of here. But we know a lot of people have done it. Of course. So then you think, okay, how intense was that pressure? How intense was maybe some of the intimidation? I'm not saying that happened, but we know it has happened. All right, Gibbs, let's take a quick break to talk about our sponsors.

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Just go to Perfectbar.com slash teacat. Shop their refrigerated snacks at perfectbar.com slash teacat today to get 15% off your order. We want you to be seasonally prepared. Go to perfect bar.com slash T-Cat to stock up and save 15%. A month after Chester killed John Sepeda, he shot and killed 87-year-old Edomay stallings during a burglary, 87 years old. I mean, he's 10 years old all the way up to 87 years old. Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, judging by his victims, he did some stalking.

He did some reconnaissance, whatever you want to call it. he was really looking for people that he thought were either alone or extremely vulnerable. Right. So he finds an 87 year old woman and thinks, okay, if I break in, what is she going to do? She can't hurt me. No. Now, she did have a gun. There was some story about her having a gun, but I think he took it away from her. I think that's where when you get older, you got to be careful, man. You really do. It's good to have certain weapons around, I think, for protection. But you got to make sure that you're willing to use it and make sure that you don't give the person breaking in a chance to get it out of

your hands. And I think it can happen pretty easy. Well, you know, one way it can happen very easily is if you're not willing to use it. Yeah. So some people think, okay, I have a gun. And if I point the gun at somebody, that will be enough. And in every, case, that's not going to be true. No, they'd walk right up to you and put their hand on it and rip it out of yours. Maybe he knew. I would. He could tell that no way, was this woman going to pull the trigger?

He just took the gun away from her. That's the way it sounded from the research. Right. But no matter how it happened, he shot and killed this woman. The next month in November, Chester stalked a former coworker named Cheryl de Leon. The two of them worked together at a restaurant or had in the past. He didn't work there anymore. I think she still did.

But it was said that Elroy Chester sexually harassed Cheryl on a regular basis while they worked together. It was very well known. She probably hated going to work. She had told her boss. And maybe that's the reason why he no longer worked there. I didn't see that. But so he broke into her house.

She heard him. she confronted him. They struggled and he shot her to death. Gibbs at this point, it's every month. He's either assaulting someone, sexually assaulting someone or killing someone or he's a busy guy. Not in a good way.

And I kind of mentioned he had a standard operating procedure in these burglaries and murders. He had an M.O. He wore a mask. He wore gloves. He had wirecuts. he had wire cutters that he used to cut the phone lines to the house before he broke in. So he did it the old school way, right?

Yeah. Yeah. He always had a gun with him. He had a flashlight. The other thing he would do, and you've heard about this before, he would unscrew the light bulbs from like porch lights or if somebody had a security light or something like that to give him more cover in the dark. That's smart. for somebody with a low IQ. And that's what we're going to talk about, right?

This is not a guy that just jumps through the window, grabs some stuff and runs out. He's doing some things that you think, all right, this is pretty intelligent stuff. I hate to say that about somebody that robs and kills, but it is. Chester later told police that the gun went off accidentally.

When he tried to hit Cheryl in the head with it, it went off and shot her. I don't know if I believe that. I saw some reports that said she was shot in the head. I saw some that said she was shot in the throat. Now, a gun can go off. I can. But I don't know if I believe him, though.

Well, when you've killed a number of people or will kill, you know, let's say five people, the accidentally the gun went off. The story kind of loses some of its luster, I think. Yeah, I think so. But you have a number of murders, right? The police are taking note of this and the fact that they have some similarities. I don't think it would be real hard for them to see that. Somebody breaks in.

There's a robbery. Yeah. People are shot to death. Their phone lines have been cut. Their light bulbs have been, you know, unscrued. They're going to start to think, hey, this is the same person. and we need to catch this person really quickly. In December, Chester killed his sister's husband, a guy by the name of Albert Bolden.

I don't know if these two were partners in robbing houses, but it was reported that Chester killed Bolden while they were burglarizing a house. He shot him in the back of the head and then just left him there in the house to be found. I don't think, at least on the part of Elroy Chester, he had any designs on tag teaming this robbery. I think he specifically used this as an excuse to kill his brother-in-law. So this is just more one of those, like when they brought Pesci back to the one house, he thought he was going to be a made man. Yeah. Instead, they just, he steps on that plastic and he knows.

Yeah, I have a feeling that Bolden knew Chester robbed houses. He wanted in on it and he said, hey, let's go do this one. And Chester took the opportunity to kill him because he later came out and told police that he killed Bolden because this guy had been abusing his sister. That was one reason he gave. I can see maybe that he was just frustrated that if this was true, that he wanted to get his. point across and maybe he just went too far. And, well, I think a shot to the back of the head gets your point across. I think it does a little bit more than making a point. There's no point left to be made if you've executed the person. That's the next boyfriend now. Well, maybe, maybe.

But he also gave a second reason. And this was that he was upset with Bolden because this guy had set him up on a date with someone that turned out to be a man dressed up as a woman. So there we go. Here's the real reason. This is maybe more of the real reason. Yeah, because this is a guy that had no problem sexually assaulting a 10-year-old. Do I really feel that he was concerned about his sister and how she was being treated?

No. But did this impact his ego when somebody tried to set him up with another man? Yes. No, I see where you're going with it. Now, could he have had strong feelings for his sister and wanted her to be okay? Maybe. But to your point, anybody that can sexually assault a 10-year-old girl, do they have those type of feelings? We know a lot of serial killers don't.

Yeah, I'd be surprised. The final crime in Chester's wave of terror occurred on February 6, 1998. This crime definitely had the most information out there on it. I mean, a lot of it comes from court documents because this is the crime for which Chester was convicted. All of his crimes were pretty heinous, but this one was especially rough. So Chester's walking around the neighborhood. He's just looking for a house to burglarize. He's stalking. He's doing some reconnaissance, whatever you want to call it. With him, he had his 380 pistol that he'd stolen in a previous robbery. This is the one that he'd been using. He had a ski mask. He had gloves.

He spotted 17-year-old Aaron Dalyon. No relation to Cheryl. I also found that extremely odd in this case. Yeah. We have multiple victims with the same last name. No relation whatsoever. And it's not a name like Smith or Jones or something like that. He spots this. girl through the window of a house. Aaron was home with her one-year-old son. Her mom was at work, and her 14-year-old sister Claire was out with her boyfriend. So Chester's watching Aaron through the window until he satisfied that she's alone. He crept up to the house, unscrewed the light bulb, made it darker. He cut the phone lines. He put on his mask and gloves. and he found that the side door was unlocked, right?

Going around, he's looking for an easy way in, boom. He finds a door that's unlocked. Now, later, Aaron said that she left it unlocked because she knew her sister was going to be home soon. As Elroy Chester entered the house, he encountered Aaron De Leon. He grabbed Aaron by her ponytail and put his gun up to her head. demanded all of the money, jewelry, valuables in the house. But Gibbs, he's holding her by the ponytail, gun to her head, essentially walking her around the house from room to room, gathering up valuables.

You just wonder what's going through her mind. You know, I mean, he's got that firm grip on her, going room to room. She probably wants to pull away, right? Make a run for it because she doesn't know how this is going to end. which is very tough to do when somebody is holding a gun directly against your head. You don't have a lot of leeway to make a break for it. Now, Aaron lives. I'm just going to say that right away.

She's done some interviews. You can go out and find some things for her as a documentary that we'll talk about towards the end of the episode. But no doubt, everybody involved in this crime that we're about ready to talk about had to have been extremely scared and scarred. I'll say that. He brought Aaron into the living room and had her shut all the blinds, turn off the lights. Gibbs, this is when Aaron's sister Claire came home with her boyfriend Tim.

As soon as they got into the house, Chester had the gun on them, ordered them to hand over anything they had of value. Of course, these are pretty young kids. It's not like they are going to have wads of cash on them. He put them in the bathroom. He kept Aaron with him, forced her to undress, and used some duct tape that I think he got from the garage to blindfold her. Next, he pulled Tim out of the bathroom, had him strip and used the duct tape to blindfold him. He put Tim into one of the bedrooms and then pulled Claire out of the bathroom. forced her to strip and use the duct tape to blindfold her.

So he has three people in this house, not including the one-year-old, who luckily is not hurt, not involved in this story at all. All three of these people are, for the most part, nude and they have duct tape wrapped around their eyes. You want to blindfold somebody? Use duct tape. Yeah. Don't like where this is headed.

No. I mean, anybody that has ever gotten, you know, really good duct tape on their skin, not really easy to get it off. And it hurts like a, you know what, when you do pull it off. Right. You wrap it a couple of times around somebody over the eyes. They're not going to see anything. It's pretty effective.

Yeah. I would imagine. But you, you kind of mentioned it with Aaron, right? What's going through everyone's mind? This had to be unimaginably scary for these three young people. Unfortunately, it's going to get much worse. This whole scenario has me drifting back a little bit to the Carr brothers, you know? It's a little car brothery.

Yeah. It's also, in a way, a little bit Otero family BTK, a little bit, a little bit. Yeah. You know, I just think any time there's what you would think of as like a home invasion and people are blindfolded and subdued in a way, that is so scary. Oh, man. It's like a, it's something you see on TV that's not real, but scares the shit out of you because it's one of those horror flicks that you watch. You're like, oh, man. How many times have you and I talked about your home, right?

Your home's your castle. it's your safe space. Right. That's what it's supposed to be. Now, a lot of times we're talking about it in the form of somebody within your own home trying to hurt you. You don't expect that. But you also don't expect somebody to violate the sanctity of your home from the outside. I mean, it's your castle.

You're trying to protect it the best you can, locking it up, you know, keeping certain people out. And I mentioned Gibbs that it was going to get much work. Chester raped Aaron while Claire sat next to her. They were both blindfolded. He forced each of the girls to perform oral sex on him and he would hold his gun to the head of the other sister while it happened. And this whole time, he repeatedly threatened to blow their heads off if things didn't go the way that he wanted them to go. So I talked about it being scary. Yeah, very scary. I talked about the fact that it was going to get much worse and it has. But it was around this time that Billy Ryman the third, the girl's uncle, drove up to the house with his girlfriend. Billy was a Port Arthur

firefighter and he was very decorated. This was an extremely good guy. And it was stated that he would often drive by the house to check on the girls when their mother, who was his sister, was working at night. So that's what he was doing. He was just dropping by to check on them to make sure that they were okay. Being a good uncle. The problem is Elroy Chester is there. And he heard the truck pulling to the driveway. So he got by the door. And he waited. And the minute that Billy Ryman walked in, Chester shot him. Then he went outside to check on the truck in the driveway. And this is when the 14 year old, Claire, in a move that you have to consider

unbelievably brilliant. She quickly got up and locked a door because Chester tried to get back in. He just wanted to see what was going on with this truck. It was still running and he was trying to figure out who was there. Right. But he didn't realize that Claire. was going to lock him out of the house. He tried to get back in, found out it was locked.

So he started towards the truck where Billy's girlfriend was sitting inside. He wanted to get into that truck, I believe to make his getaway. Sure. But Billy's girlfriend quickly locked the doors. So he pulled out his gun and he fired some shots into the locks on both sides of the doors like you would see in a movie. Like he's going to blow out. out the lock and that's going to open the door. That was never going to work.

And he must have realized this and said, you know what? I got to get the heck out of here. So he tore off down the street. Luckily, Billy's girlfriend was not hit by any of the shots. So here's a guy that's supposed to have a low IQ, but he knew to go stand by the door, wait for somebody to come in. Yep. And basically kill him execution style.

And then he got locked out. But at that point, he realized he had the know-how. And the wherewithal. Yeah, that he knew either I got to get this truck and this is how I could get the truck by shooting these locks because it might work. Or I'm going to have to go ahead and get on down this road and not stay here too much longer. Doesn't sound like somebody that's sitting on a low IQ. Well, and again, we'll talk about it more, but what is your definition of a low IQ versus

where does it have to be to not understand right from wrong or know that what you're doing is wrong. It's going to come up later, but when you talk about the casing, the stalking, the picking of the victims, cutting the phone lines, wearing a ski mask, using gloves, unscrewing the light bulbs, does that sound like somebody that doesn't know what they're doing? Yeah, it's the opposite. It sounds like somebody that knows exactly what they're doing. Right. Chester was arrested pretty quickly.

There's really not a lot out there or there there's nothing out there that I could find about how they figured out it was him. But they arrested him really quickly. And just about as quickly, he admitted to the murder of Billy Ryman. Now, later on, he's going to admit to all of it, everything that we've talked about. And I mentioned early on. This guy left a pretty big path of destruction. When it was all said and done, Gibbs, he had killed at least five people and committed at least three sexual assault.

This is what he admitted to as well as the number of people that he victimized. He shot people. Now, they lived, but they were victims as well. But I definitely want to talk about an incident that occurred after his arrest and confession. This is something like out of a movie. So he told police that he would take them to where he had hidden the murder weapon, the gun that he used to commit the murders. Well, police are going to want that.

Yeah. Right? They want to test that. Ballistically, that's going to be great evidence. So you think this guy's being pretty helpful, right? Appears to be. Appears to be on the surface. So they shackle him up like they've done to you many times.

Yeah, it's always interesting. They take him to his father's house. This is where he says that he stashed the gun in his bedroom at his father's house. As they're moving through the house, police said, like, he kept trying to move out ahead of them. It was as though he was trying to stay out in front of them the whole time trying to get to this bedroom before they could. They had to keep raining him back in, pulling him back. So they get into the bedroom where he says the gun is hidden. And he tells police that he's going to be the only one able to reach this gun.

I'm not sure why that would be. He also told him not to worry because it wasn't loaded. And you would believe him because why would he lie to you? Well, that would all my fears right there. Now I don't have a care in the world. So this guy tries to climb up on his nightstand. there's a big hole in the ceiling. And he says the gun's up there in the ceiling.

But he tries to climb up on this nightstand. He's going to get it for them. Right. Let me do this for you. Yeah. As you can imagine, police are not real keen on that idea. They tell him to get down. An investigator gets up on the nightstand.

And he's reaching around in the area where Elroy said the gun was. He can't find it. So Elroy again gets up on this. nightstand with this other guy and he keeps pointing to where the gun is, which side it's on. At the same time, he starts to reach for the other side. Right. And a policeman that's down not on the nightstand sees him, pulls his gun out and threatens to shoot him.

They get him down off the nightstand again. Right. The officer that's up there now reaches on the other side, finds the gun. And guess what? it's loaded. Of course. Gibbs, this guy was trying to get his hands on that gun. And my thought is he was going to shoot everyone. Well, I believe that. And I don't know, try to make a break for it. I mean, what has the world come to when you can't trust an admitted serial murderer and rapist? We're doomed, man. We're doomed. Yeah. I just thought that was such an interesting story.

number one that I get it. The police want to get their hands on this murder weapon, but it really seemed like they were a little cavalier in letting this guy too close to this, uh, to this gun. I'm just surprised that the police let them go that far. I would have thought when they saw the hole, they're like,

okay, put them back in the cruiser. We'll take it from here. We're sending our guys up and see what we find. Yeah. We'll tear this whole place apart if we have to, but to allow him to get on this. nightstand not once but twice. It's bizarre. And at least make a reach for it. Now, the guy was going to

shoot him if he. Oh, yeah. Didn't stop, but still. So prosecutors decided to take Chester to trial for the murder of firefighter Billy Ryman. They had the other charges in their back pocket if something went wrong in this trial, but it's not going to. The trial was really never in doubt. after Chester decided to plead guilty. The state had ballistics proof that his gun was used in the murder as well as the others. That wouldn't come in, though. This trial was really only about Billy Ryman. They had retrieved shell casings and were able to match them to the gun.

They also had some DNA evidence that linked Chester to the Ryman murder. So it really seems like they had a lot of good, solid evidence. Oh, yeah. I think they did, and it's probably the reason why he decided to plead guilty. Yeah. He wasn't going to get out from underneath this guilty conviction. So it really wasn't so much about the trial. It was about the sentencing, right?

He was going to be found guilty. Now, he pleaded guilty, made it a little easier on them. So now it's really down to what is the jury going to come back and recommend? Is it going to be lying? is it going to be death? Is it going to be something else? It is Texas, right? Let's not forget. Right. At the sentencing hearing, the issue of Elroy's mental impairment came up. His defense team argued that because of this, he should not be put to death. But the prosecution doubled down. Gibbs, in their closing arguments, they said that his mental impairment could be considered an aggravating factor in

favor of the death penalty. And that's a new one on me. That's an interesting statement. Gibbs, I don't think I've ever heard that argument before saying that this guy is so low intellectually. It's even more of a reason to put him to death. We're doing the state of favor. Yeah, I don't know.

It was very strange the way that it was worded. Even more strange is that Elroy. testified during the penalty phase against the advice of his attorneys, of course. This is one of those ones. I'm surprised he didn't represent himself. Yeah, no, I get you. But I know you always like it when people, number one, represent themselves. But number two, take the stand against the advice of their attorneys.

Those are great, man. And it always works out in their favor, doesn't it? Yeah, it's a bad thing, but I'm sure he's going to charm them. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he thinks he thinks. he can charm this jury, he knows he's going away. And maybe Gibbs, like you said earlier, maybe that's not the end of the world to him. But he doesn't want to die, I assume.

No, I think he would be okay with spending the rest of his life in prison since that's what he knows. Versus the death penalty. I would agree with that. Now, one article said that he was separated from the rest of the courtroom by a big sheet of plexiglass. I don't know if he was a spitter. I don't know if they were worried about something like that.

It also said that they made him wear one of those stun belts where somebody could press a button and he would zap him. Like those little shock collars you put on, you see some people put on dogs. Yeah, except this is something you wear around your waist. And I'm sure it doesn't feel good at all. Don't be getting any ideas. If I could order,

it's probably illegal to have one. I hope so. Otherwise you'd have one here waiting for me. All right. So all of this is strange, right? The fact that he's going to get up there. But, okay, maybe he thinks he can sway the jury, talk them out of giving him the death penalty. The problem is he's not trying to butter them up at all. He just got on the stand and said a bunch of things, Gibbs, that I've never heard a defendant say in my life. So is you just want to agitate him? I don't know. He said that his sexual assault victims were, quote, lucky they ain't dead on the stand. Okay. He said that. And he said that he had a whole lot of fun committing his crimes.

I mean, what are you trying to do? Say, just kill me right now. I'm thinking his attorney's over in the corner waving his hands like, stop. Well, there was a lot of talk about just how difficult of a defendant this guy was for his attorneys to represent. I think those two statements make it pretty clear, and there's going to be some other statements as well. I guess he didn't have any type of rapport with his attorneys.

He really wouldn't even talk to them. And I'm going to go out on a limb and say that during prep, they didn't advise him to get on the stand and say just how much fun he had committing his crimes. Unless part of the strategy was, we're probably not going to be able to save you. the way this is currently going. Let's go so outlandish. Yeah. Get on the stand.

Like, we don't have control and you don't know better. You don't have the mental capacity to understand what you're doing. Say some weird shit. That could be. And maybe there feels sympathy for you. Because why else? I mean, it does really nothing else make sense other than what you've just said. Apparently, he also said that if the jury gave him the death.

penalty. He was going to have his friends. I think he used the word homies, kill a police officer, but if they only gave him life, he would just kill a prison guard. Okay. Now, I say the word just and you know, obviously I'm kind of saying that tongue and cheek. It's not a laughing matter, but what I don't get is the scenario he's trying to lay out. Neither one is good. Both result in him killing someone. If they even gave him less than that, was it just going to be like the mall cop? Well, there wasn't no other options. Was it Paul Blart at that point?

That's why I didn't understand. You would think if he was trying to get out of the death penalty and for some reason he thought this extortion type tactic was going to work, he would have said that he wouldn't have killed anyone if they gave him life. Right. But no. Death penalty, I kill this person. life, I kill this person.

Yeah. Well, you're not leaving me much in the way of options here. Again, don't try to make sense. I don't know why I do try to make sense of some of this stuff because it's nonsensical. He also apparently said on the stand that if he had not been arrested, he would be out there still killing all of the white folks he could. Oh. Now, it's one thing I haven't talked about. normally I don't because it doesn't matter.

Right. Elroy Chester was African American. I think a lot of his victims were white. So he gets on the stand and said, I don't kill as many white people as I can if I was out there. Again, not the brightest thing to say if you're trying to save your life, but also not a bad thing to say if you're trying to make people think you are

much less intelligent than even what you really are. Yeah. And again, you're saving your life if you can pull it off. It gets worse. An officer from the jail testified that Chester said he regretted raping such a young child. He was talking specifically about the 10 year old girl. He said, quote, I'm sorry for that 10 year old. I didn't know she was 10. If I would have known her age, I would have gotten her mama then. So what are you saying? I get it. Yeah.

And on the one hand, he's saying he wished that he wouldn't have raped a 10-year-old. But he was going to rape somebody. So. And how do you not know? When somebody's 10 years old Gibbs, you know that they're very, very young. Hey, even if he got it off by a few years, come on. Still. If you thought she was 14, did you think it was okay?

No. It's just, again, I should never try. And nobody should ever try to make sense of these people. Right. You just can't do it. And obviously the jury was pretty done with this guy. Oh, I would think so. It took them about 12 minutes of deliberation to come back with a death sentence.

12 minutes. You know it's not good if it's under an hour, man. Under 15 minutes is really not good. Sometimes I can't even get through like the McDonald's drive-thru in 12 minutes. I don't think it's really busy. I don't even think they sat down in the jury. chairs back in the jury room. They're probably just like, hey guys, we don't need to sit down. Just what do you? We all agree, right? Okay. Let's, let's wait 10 more minutes since we did this in two.

Yes. And then we'll go out. We don't want to look like we're rushing it. Right. 12 minutes. You and I cover a lot of death penalty cases. Yeah. A lot of cases where juries deliberate, 12 minutes has to be some kind of record. It definitely has to be some record. I think that one time I passed out in that bathroom was more than 12 minutes. Where you got your arm in the urinal? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So Chester goes to death row, but his attorney is going to appeal his convictions and does. They're all upheld. But they also appealed his death sentence on the grounds that Elroy Chester couldn't be put to death because he was mentally impaired. We talked about this early on. One court actually said he was and they vacated his. death sentence. But then a higher court overruled it and they reinstated it. Welcome to Texas. But that's where the state's argument comes in. And we've kind of already laid most of it out, right?

The planning that went into this guy's crimes and murders, the stalking, the cutting of the phone lines, the light bulbs. Again, I kind of hate to say it this way, but the guy did some very intelligent things. as far as it concerns being a criminal, you would have to say that those are pretty smart things to try to get away with crimes. I think the court looked at it all and said, yep, he's mentally sufficient to be put to death. And I would agree with him. I would too, based on of everything that we've talked about, his attorney did try a last ditch effort appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.

That happens all the time. It was rejected. Bester was going to be put to death on June 12, 2013. Apparently, he had the opportunity to do some interviews before his execution, and he declined. It's not what we hear about most of the time. No. Because I think with a lot of these killers, they're more than happy to talk to the media, but he didn't want to.

So when you get into final meals, this is 2013. We had a case not that long ago. it was in Texas that was a death row case and maybe it was yeah was basso Suzanne basso assail assail same thing here right by this point in time Texas had done away with the special order whatever you want meal right and they basically said you know what you get the same slop that every other inmate gets here's your slop tray and you'll eat it and you'll like it same thing I tell my kids. Tell me that.

Yeah. I do tell you this. Here's dinner. You eat it and you're like it. I'm like, I'm allergic to that stuff. I don't care. I don't care.

Eat it. This is what we have. This is what I tell my kids all the time. This is what we have to eat. If you don't like it, then you don't eat. Yeah. Of course,

they know how to make their own food. So it doesn't work as well as it did when they were like six, seven years old. Yeah, now they just wait for you to finish and they go ahead and microwave what they want. Yeah. My daughter will whip up something. better than what my wife and I just ate.

She actually does. She's a really good cook. Yeah. So Chester is strapped in, right, for his lethal injection. His final words were, quote, I just want to say, I don't want you to have hate in your heart for me because I took your loved one. I know it doesn't mean anything. I told the truth because I feel like you should know who killed your loved one. God watches everything.

Don't hate me. I'm sorry for taking your loved one. Elroy Chester wasn't a bad man. Okay, here we go. Oh, there we go. Talking about himself in the third person. Yeah. I knew me.

That's what he said. I knew me. I knew me. A lot of people say, I didn't commit those murders. I really did it. That's my statement, Warden.

You can go ahead. All right. Some of that doesn't make it sound like El Rory Chester is all that in television. I get that. Then apparently he started humming. What people said sounded like some sort of church hymn, but he told him to go ahead and they did go ahead. They started the lethal injection. They probably said, well, thank you, but I didn't really need your permission and tell me to go ahead. That is true. Now, the one thing that was interesting was that both Aaron and Claire were in the witness room to watch Chesterby put to that. What good for them. These two, girls survived, but they went through something very horrible. Yeah. Can't even fathom what it was like. No. No, I don't think any of us can. Forty-year-old Elroy Chester was pronounced dead at 7.04 p.m. So he's dead. Outside of the prison, the Port Arthur police chief told reporters, in my 37 years as a

policeman, I've never met a man so evil. I know with his death that he won't, be able to pray on anybody or take somebody else's life. Gibbs, there were also a lot of firefighters there. Oh, sure, yeah. For their fallen brother,

Billy Ryman. Again, I mentioned it. This guy was by all accounts, a really good stand-up guy. Yeah. And as far as being a firefighter, he was very decorated.

I'm sure definitely was missed by his friends, family. Oh, no doubt. No doubt. There was a 2013 documentary called Killing Time that was made about Chester's crime and his execution. I saw the trailer for it, but I didn't actually watch the documentary. Right. I do believe Aaron, at least Aaron, maybe more victims were in the documentary because I did see her talk at one point. I read a lot of articles and editorials on whether Elroy Chester should have

been put to death, all of them centering around his mental capacity. A lot of the articles focused on, okay, just exactly how do the courts decide where to draw that line? And it doesn't seem to be uniform, I guess is what a lot of people are saying case to case. Yeah, I mean, it's definitely not going to be a universal thing. As far as I could tell, it's not like, okay, if your IQ is this, this or lower. Yeah. You get a free pass. You cannot be put to death.

Although there was a lot of talk about this IQ of 70, kind of being the line. Well, I think no matter where it's at, right? There's going to be a line that as far as prosecution goes, they're probably like, we can go for it, but we're probably not going to get it. Do we want to not push for that? I just think there's probably, you get to the little gray, soft. area and then further down, it's, you know, you're not going to be able to get the death penalty on that. So you just go ahead and go for what you know you can. Yeah, I think for me, I don't know

if it's so much the number as, especially in the case of Elroy Chester. To me, I don't know if his number was 68, 69, 70, 71. Right. I don't know that it matters, though. When you look at his crimes, They showed a sophistication. Absolutely. That you see with killers with much higher IQs. He definitely demonstrated the fact that he knew what he was doing and the reasons behind why he was doing. Yeah. I don't think this was a man that didn't know right from wrong.

Let's put it that way. But so much carnage, man, at the hands of Elroy Chester, he murdered at least five people, burglarized many homes, shot people that ended up surviving. So you have those victims and their families that had to deal with their losses. You had the loss of firefighter Billy Reimann. You had the hell that Aaron and Claire went through. And Tim as well, I don't want to leave him out. I've seen statements made by the girls who obviously are much older.

Sure. now, but saying that if Billy Ryman doesn't come over to the house when he did, they would have all died. Yeah. He saved them. I think he did. When you think about that, right? An uncle gave up his life to protect the lives of his nieces.

The last thing he did on that earth was heroic. Yeah. That'll choke you up a little bit. Absolutely. When you think about it in that context. Now, he didn't know that's what he was. doing when he came to the house. Now, he did come there to check on them. Right. He had no idea he was going to be giving up his life, but he did. But that's it. And that is the case of Elroy Chester.

You know, we do all these cases and I'm left thinking, I just don't understand how these people can cause so much carnage. And I don't know a better word for it than that. Obviously, they're taking people's lives. Right. But so much more. They're affecting family members. The victims that survive are left with scars externally, internally. I mean, I'm thinking of the poor 10-year-old girl. Yeah. I mean, rest of her life has to deal with that. Yeah. Therapy or not, she still has to recall that. Yeah, very rough, very rough. We have some voicemails. You want to check those out? Mike and Gibby, dude, you guys are awesome. Hey, I actually never listened to the podcast before.

You're literally actually my first. So, awesome, you're actually the only one I listened to. I did a lot of traveling back in September, kind of for work. And someone recommended, oh, just try a podcast. I looked you guys up, and now I'm hooked. Anyway, funny thing about me is I actually worked on the show Mind Hunter, I worked on all of season two doing the on-set dressing for the VTK scene. So it's pretty funny listening to you guys talk about that stuff,

because I was actually right there working with those guys, which was quite the experience. Anyway, you guys rock. Keep it up. Keep your own time taking. Love you. Hey, hey, it's the Mine Hunter guy. I didn't read my name with you. I'm sorry about that.

This is Matt in Pittsburgh. So, yeah, sorry about that. I was nervous. Yeah, Matt in Pittsburgh, we worked on Mine Hunter. I love you guys. You're awesome. Keep it up. Bye.

It happens quite a bit where people have to call back and I just cobbled out together. but how cool to work on the show Mind Hunter. I'm thinking he can work on the one I'm writing, the brain seekers. The brain seekers. Yeah. So he talked about, it sounded Gibbs like costume design or maybe that's not the right word for it.

But specifically for the BTK scenes, he said. So I don't know if he was responsible for putting that guy in the nighty with the weird mask, the belt. Or maybe he was responsible to make the house look like. Like it was set back in that time. Yeah. Yeah.

That's one thing about those shows. I love them when they're set like in the 70s and 80s. Right. But you know how much harder it has to be to make a show set in the 70s than it is one set in 2019? Oh, yeah. You have to worry about everything, cars, the sets, the phones, everything in that set has to be something that could only be found in the in the 70s or before. You're always going to that one person that forgets one thing, man.

You know, like an iPhone sitting there on the table or there's a Roomba that somehow walks into the room. Yeah, it drives through. But pretty cool that he worked on the show. Hey, Gideon, John here from Grant's Pass, Oregon, man. Just got your podcast about a month ago. And I've been binge listening. I'm a truck driver, local, so I get to go home every night to my family.

But all I do is drive. I just listen to you guys. Hey, this got done listening to the Joseph Paul Franklin case. And, you know, I found it very interesting that I didn't realize that was the guy's name, but I knew Joy Williams, one of his victims, you know, they were the couple, Johnny and Joy. He was murdered and she was paralyzed. What a lot of people don't realize, she was pregnant at the time and gave birth to a little girl,

and I know her very well. Joy passed away a few years ago, I think as a result of some complications. of the shooting paralyzation. Anyways, love listening to your show. I'm going to take a while to catch up, but eventually I'll get caught up. And hey, man, keep it up. Keep your own time taking.

So it might be a while for you. Here's this voicemail. Right. But as a trucker, I will say, you can listen to a lot of podcasts in a day. Yeah, you can't, man. Just turn them on and keep on trucking. So can a lot of people in these office settings that,

you know, if you're not customer facing, I think people listen to podcasts all day. long. I wonder what a CB handle was. Do they still do CBs? I don't know. Bricker one-nine. Bricker one-niner?

I think you're thinking of like the bandit, smoking the bandit. 10-4 good buddy. Yeah, I don't know. I'm sure they, I know they have some kind of communication. I don't know if it's still CB radios. Hey, call back and let us know. Yeah. Got your own little signal.

I'm not a trucker, so I don't know. Yeah. I know you spend a lot of time in the big rigs, but I do not. Yeah, yeah, easy. Easy. What? I'm just saying easy. Easy why?

I wasn't implying. I'll get my Kenworthy. I'll say Kenworth. No, it's Kenworth. So you know even less about trucks than I thought you did. I should just went with Mac. Maybe you have not spent as much time in trucks as I thought you had. Hi, Mike and Gibby.

This is Tiffany Carroll. I just wanted to call and say that I love your contract. I've been listening to you guys for about six to eight months now. You guys are the only podcast that I listen to. When I want to laugh, I listen to your podcast for the reviews are in, and I think it's hilarious. And then I always, every week, listen to both the unsolved and the true crime all the time podcast. I think you guys do a fantastic job. But I also just wanted to reach out to you, Givie, and let you know that I have been praying for you about your dad and that, you know, myself and my

family, just want to experience how truly sorry we are and that we hope that you and your family are doing love. Just to keep on doing what you guys are doing, keep your own time chicken. And I can't wait every week for you. That's awesome. I appreciate that so much. Yeah. And like I said last week, Gibbs, we continue to get a lot of voicemails of people,

you know, wanting to give their condolences or, or say something about that. Obviously, we can't put them all on. Right. And so I don't want people to think we're ignoring them, but it is very nice. The level of support that you've gotten, again, continues to blow me away. Yeah. That's awesome.

Hi, guys. My name is Vanessa McCarthy. I'm calling from Newfoundland, Canada. I don't know where to start. I just love you guys. I think you guys are the best. You get me through my three-hour drive. an hour and a half each to and from work every day.

And you also keep me going through my house cleaning through everything. You are the best. I really love your podcast. Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacy are probably my favorite. Is that weird? But anyhow, I hope that you guys keep up the great work and keep your own time taking. Love you guys. Bye.

Wow. Hour and a half commute each way. That's rough. So I will say in the true crime community and the people that are listening to this podcast, it's not weird at all. To people that don't get our fascination with true crime, yeah, it can be a little weird to have favorites or people that you're more interested in than others. But I think to people listening, they get it. Oh, I know they get it. Everybody has their favorites.

It doesn't mean they like what these people. people did. It's the story around it. It's the history. It's the specifics. So, yes, we had some mailbag. Oh, did we? Yep. Our good friend Lottie sent you some stuff. Oh, thank you, Lottie. She sent you a bear. Oh, okay. To help you through as well as a key chain with some very touching words on it. Oh. It was Lottie so nice. Yeah, she is. Good friend of the show, Amy sent me some black rifle coffee. It's one that I've really been wanting. to try, so I'm excited about that. I think Black Rifle Coffee is a veteran-owned coffee place.

That's even better. Yeah, no, I think it is. And so I've been excited to try it. I like trying new coffee, man. You like your coffee. Coffee's my thing. That's my jam. All right, buddy, we got to get out.

So that is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.