True Crime All The Time - Eric Edgar Cooke

Episode Date: May 6, 2019

Eric Cooke was an Australian serial who operated in the area of Perth, Western Australia, predominately in the early 1960s. This was a man that committed his crimes because in his words he wanted to hurt people. Cooke has the distinction of being the last man hanged in Western Australia.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the life and crimes of Eric Cooke. An abusive alcoholic father and head injuries mix to form a bad childhood. But is that what turned Eric Cooke into a killer? What was it that fueled this man's need to hurt, maim and kill? This case is interesting on a number of levels but particularly for the fact that two innocent men served lengthy sentences for Cooke's murders.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise and donation informationSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 129 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you? I'm good, man. How about you? I'm doing great. I had an excellent week. I got out, rode to motorcycle some. Awesome. There's just something about it, something about being on it that is like instant stress relief. You like something vibrating between your legs. I got you. All right. Instant stress relief. leave. That's all that matters, man. Two minutes in, hit me with that already. Yeah. Well, I didn't do my double man, so, you know, I had to do something.

All right. We'll take it. We'll take it. Anything new with you? No, man. It's just happy to be here. Happy to be here. You're happy to be here. I'm happy to be here, man. All right. Listen, we got some new Patreon supporters, so let's give some shout out. Let's hear it. We had Haley Mosley. Hey, Haley Mosley, Ashton. Just Ashton. Just Ashton. Okay, cootter. Chris Tola.

Hey, Chris. Kylie Kindle. Well, the Kardashian Strike Again. We got them both. Okay. Taylor Prince. Hey, Taylor. Lindy Tristram.

Tristram. Hey, Tristram. One or the other. I think I'm right. Jeffrey Jones. Hey, JJ. Well, that's a G. G.

Or G. G. Becky Pantuso. Pantuso. Sasha Saunders. Hey, Sasha. Candy Ramsey Hey, Candy.

Alex Trowbich. Hey, you gotta do a game show. Sound like Alex Trebek. Yeah. Kelsey Key. Hey, K-K. Diane Hansen. Thanks, Diane.

Patty Foster. Patty, thank you. Carrie Keyes. Carrie. Ryan Doyle. Thank you, Ryan. Mia Khalifa. Oh, I like that.

Califa. That is cool. Chiquita Clark. Ooh, I don't want to eat a banana. Leanne Vanderaden. Oh, Wanderraven. I swear he said Raven at the end. I might have.

Sarah Jacqueline Andrews. Hey, Sarah. She jumped out at her highest level. Yeah. Becky Sawwish. Sawwish. Yep. All right.

Sawish. And then the next name, she wants us to try it, each of us to try it separately. So you go first. Uh, Florence, uh, DuPos. Okay. I'm going to go Florence Dupuy and we'll see who's right. Okay. We had Karen Travels.

Where she going? I don't know. Okay. And Jessica Graham. Hey, Jessica. So big shout out to all the new Patreon supporters. And then if we go back into the vault. Okay.

This week, we selected Angela Reynolds. Oh, Angela. Thank you. Been with us a long time, long time Patreon supporter. We appreciate all the people that continue to support us. We had some great PayPal support as well. All right. Stephanie Villanueva.

Villa Nueve. Lindsey Nicol. Hey, thanks. Sarah Gothier. Gothier? Or Gauthier. Like more goth than the person next to you? It doesn't look like that at all.

Gothier. Dorothy Ballerini. Oh, I wonder if she's related to the singer. Kelsey? Was she on the voice? Did she come from the voice and then become a country singer? I think I know who you're talking about. Yeah.

But I'm not sure. And then Francisco Reed. Oh, Francisco. I actually made a sizable donation. on PayPal. It's a fun name. We appreciate all that. All right. So right now we have an episode out on Unsolved. We do. It is on the Black Friars Pub Massacre. It is. And this one's a little different for us. I mean, we're getting, I mean, we're in Boston for one thing. I'd like those apples. How you like those apples? So Gibby may do some really, really bad Boston accents,

although he does have family, right? Your mom's from Boston? She is. She's a South. I. She's a Southie. Doesn't mean that I'll pull off a good accident. No. You know, no, you might solve some really hard equations though. Well, could. While we're doing it.

I might. But we're getting into the area a little bit. I mean, obviously this is a massacre in the late 70s, but we're talking about some known crime figures. Yeah. That people are going to be familiar with, you know, the wighty bulgers and of the world and people like that. And maybe some other folks that people are.

familiar with, but definitely Whitey Bulger for sure. People are, true crime folks are familiar with them. So make sure you check that out. So CrimeCon is coming up real quick. Gibbs. It's just a little about a month away. Yes, getting close. So, you know, last year we had a really good meetup. I thought it was a blast. You and your cowboy hat. Yeah, I was wearing a cowboy hat. But we were in Nashville. Yeah, we were. So. What are you going to wear it down in Louisiana? I don't know, maybe an alligator hat or something. I don't know. Okay. I don't know.

It'll be interesting. Some alligator boots. But anyway, I do want to do something. We will work with some of the people that are going to be there to help us maybe set something up. And we'll let everybody know for those folks that are going. Yeah. I'll be maybe some of my Duck Dynasty friends will pop in.

Yeah. Gibbs is friends with the folks from Duck Dynasty. So you never know. All right. You ready to get into this episode? I'm ready. We are talking about. Eric Edgar Cook.

And we're actually going to Australia for this one. Rise of lights. Rise of lights. So you can do some of your fancy Australian accents. We're actually going to Western Australia. I'm just on the other side. On the Western side? Yeah.

Yeah. Wow. That's really good. Just right there. It's on the other side. It's on the other side. The other side of what? Yeah.

Eastern Australia. So Eric Cook. was an Australian serial killer that they dubbed the night caller. I mean, this is a guy that terrorized the city of Perth, primarily in the early 60s. He caused at least eight deaths, but committed scores of other violent crimes. And I think one thing that is very interesting about Cook, as we go through this story, we're going to see that he didn't seem to be constrained. as many other serial killers are, by the need to murder a certain type of person,

to do it in a certain way, right? We know many serial killers have a compulsion or a, you know, an M.O. Or whatever you want to call it, they have a very specific victim type. They also, many of them like to kill the same way, you know, whether they're stranglers or, you know, whatever it is. This guy was all over the map in the way that he killed. I mean, he killed men, women and the way that he killed varied as well. So that's all something that we'll explore as we go through this. Also, this is a case where multiple people were convicted and put in prison for crimes that Eric Cook committed. Oh, really? That he had admitted to. Yeah. So I think that adds a very

fascinating layer to this case as well. I mean, you know, these two guys, they spent quite a bit of time in prison. And it took a long time to get their names cleared. So a little background on Eric. He was born February 25th, 1931. And, Victoria Park. And this is a suburb of Perth. He was born to Father Vivian and Mother Christine. That is a man's name that you don't hear a lot. Vivian. No. I normally associate that with a woman's name. Yeah, you really do. Yeah. But maybe down in Australia. This is typical. Down and over. Down and over. And way over. Way over. Eric was the oldest of three children. that the couple would have.

And I mentioned Perth and I mentioned Western Australia. So I do think it's important to talk about both a little bit for folks that are not that familiar with the geography of Australia. Western Australia is the biggest state in the country. It's like our Texas and California. It's like the whole third of the United States put together. Really? Well, not in size, but in proportion.

portion. Okay. Because it makes up about a third of that, that country. Okay. It's so big. In fact, it's the second largest subdivision of any country. Wow. Second only to, um, this place in Russia called Saka Republic. I don't even know if I'm saying that right. Way bigger than Texas or any of our states. It's massive. It's about one million square miles. That is huge. It's very big. Yeah. But its population is rather small for an area that size.

Okay. So I'm thinking rural. So about less than three million people. Okay. The state that we live in Ohio, it's not a big state. We have over 10 million people. Yeah. We have no dingoes.

We got no dingoes. But so I'm just trying to kind of put it in perspective, right? This is a huge land. mass with a relatively small population, what's even more interesting is that the majority of the population is all clustered around one area, Perth. That's where the water is. I don't know. That's what I'm thinking.

That's where all the good drinking water is. That's where the water is. Well, the good drinking water. So huge land area, small population in relation to the size of that area, and one kind of small area contains almost 80% of all the people. The rest of the people, and you hit on it, they're really spread out. Yeah. I mean, I don't even know if rural is the right word for it. I mean, they got to be spread out to where you can go miles and miles and not see another person. That's a long walkabout is definitely a long walkabout. And that's today, right?

we go back during the time frame of Eric Cook's murders, Perth was much smaller. Oh, I mean, it's a huge city today. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, major difference for sure. Yeah, it was much smaller in the late 50s, early 60s. But that's it for geography. But I found it interesting because, you know, to be honest with you Gibbs, before we started doing this podcast, I was not that knowledgeable about other parts of

the world. Many people would argue that you and I are still not very knowledgeable at all about other parts of the world. But I do think we've learned a lot in doing the podcast. So I wanted to pass on a little information. Obviously, I had to look that up. I didn't know all that. I mean,

but that's how you learn it. I think you could go with what I said. It's down and over. It is down and over. Yeah. So, I mean. But I wanted a little segment that was, you know, kind of like Sheldon's fun with flags.

Yeah. segment on the Big Bang. Well, you nailed it. There you go. You did it. I'm not saying it'll be a reoccurring thing. So back to Eric Cook. His parents didn't seem to get along well.

For one thing, they had rushed into their marriage because Eric's mother, Christine, found out that she was pregnant with him. His father was an abusive alcoholic who was especially violent towards Eric and his mother. we've heard these things before, right? We hear them a lot. Add on to that the fact that Eric had a lot of head injuries. He was hospitalized for a number of head injuries. There were reports that he was a clumsy kid and he just couldn't, he couldn't stop hitting his head and having accidents where, you know, he suffered some type of head trauma. But what it did is it resulted in some very, very severe headaches.

He was also bullied at school as a child. So Eric Cook had a hair lip and he also had a cleft palate. He did undergo some surgeries to try to correct these issues, but they didn't completely work. So Eric was left with what was described as a slight facial deformity. But the other thing that it caused was he kind of. developed a mumble. And we'll hear from Eric Cook later on. And yeah, and you'll be able to hear it. I don't understand what you're saying. He's, he's hard to understand, but you can tell that there's something

going on there. Gotcha. With his mouth. Yeah. You can, when you hear him, you'll be able to, to hear it. Okay. But that's a problem when you're a kid and you've got bullies running around. It's a big problem, man. Those are the types of things that bullies look. look for. Yep. Right. Something that makes someone else stand out, makes them different. They grasp onto it and they pounds. And it's a horrible thing. I mean, I feel bad for Eric, bad home life issues that are causing him to be bullied at school. Now, I'm not going to feel bad and nobody else is when we're done with this episode. Eric dropped out of school at the age of 14. So about the same time you did, right, Gibbs?

14? I graduated at 14. Oh. And then you went on to Harvard. Well, I went to medical school with my friend Doogie. When was it that you started working at UPS? Was that when Doogie kind of went his own way? Yeah, you know, I just didn't want to get right into it.

I wanted to be just regular guy. You wanted to see what Brown could do for you? I wanted to see what Brown can do for me. I want to be a regular guy. Give me some of those shorts and socks and let me go at. It sometime you're going to have to find an old picture. Oh, man. I know there's somewhere in a box.

There exists a photo. It's a calendar of Gibby in his UPS uniform. I was in the UPS calendar, man. I'm sure you were. Month of July. So 14 years old, quit school to go to work in large part to help support the family, right? His father's an alcoholic, even, you know, when he's working. He's spending most of his money on booze.

He's probably not putting a great deal amount of food on the table, you know, all the time. So Eric stepped up to help out. All of that sounds pretty good, except for the fact that you dropped out of school. You know, you hate to see somebody do that. Right, right. The problem with Eric is he also became a petty thief pretty early on in life, you know, in his teens. And he racked up some convictions for a number of offenses. in 1949, he was sentenced to three years for arson and vandalism.

And he was tripped up after leaving fingerprints at a number of crime scenes. This is important because it's something that's going to bite him later on as well. In 1952, he joined the military, but was kicked out after about three months once they discovered the fact that he had an extensive record. They're like, nah, I don't think this is working out for either of us. I don't know if we want to entrust you with this key to this piece of equipment. That you might set on fire. Yeah.

But even though Eric wasn't there long, it was during this time that he learned how to use a firearm. After getting out of the military, Eric met a woman named Sally. They got married in 1953. And they went on to have seven children. Wow. It's a lot. That's getting busy. That's a big brood.

That's that too. Eric became a truck driver and eventually the family settled in Rivervale. So it sounds like he's got his act together, right? You probably figure this guy should settle down. He's married. He's having lots of kids. Now, obviously we know he doesn't settle down. No.

What he does is he starts going out at night. He's burglarizing homes. He starts peeping through women's windows. And he starts stealing cars. And this is something that he's going to continue to do. The car theft thing, I think, is pretty interesting. There was a lot in the research about, you know, he would go out, especially when he was burglarizing homes.

Yeah. He would steal a car late at night, early in the morning, go out and commit whatever crimes he was going to commit and then he would return the car and it would almost be like the owner never knew it was gone. Yeah. He just borrowed it for the night. Did what he needed to do. To commit his crimes.

But as we get into the story, we're going to find out that he also liked to run over people with these stolen cars. It's going to become a big issue. It's not good. No. But it really wasn't long until Eric graduated to even more serious crimes. including murder. So we've talked about it.

He's a pretty accomplished criminal. But it wasn't until September of 1958. He's about 27 years old, give or take at this point, that Eric Cook used violence in committing a crime. Right. Up until now, he's been a voyeur. He's burglarized people's homes. He's stolen cars.

He's committed. a bunch of crimes. But he hasn't really hurt anyone physically. But this night in September he had stolen a car. He was driving around one night when he spotted a

26-year-old Dutch immigrant mother of two named Nell Schneider. And Nell was out riding her bike, not doing anything wrong. Eric Cook spotted her on the bike and he floored it. Flored this car

and just ran into her, ran her over. And Nell barely survived the attack, but she suffered severe head injuries. You know, nobody's wearing a helmet back then. No. I don't know how many people wear one today, but a lot more people do. Well, yeah, today for sure, but not, not bad.

But you also don't expect to be hit by car on purpose. No. There are accidents where, you know, bicycles, motorcycles get into an accident. with a car, you don't expect somebody to go death race 3,000 on you. I would hope not. Is that what it was called? Death Race.

I know is Death Race something. I'm going with 3,000. I'm going to agree with. I could be getting that confused with Mystery Science Theater. It's a big difference, man. It might be Death Race 5, though. I don't know. Either one.

Death Race, you know what I'm talking about. I know what you're talking about. Where you get points for running people over. You might have to do that on the movie podcast. There you go. That's a horrible thing to do. And this woman, Nell, like I said, she suffered some severe injuries. And they left her with conditions that would stay with her for the rest of her life.

You know, she had epilepsy. She had constant seizures in the years after this accident happened. And then even many, many years later, she's in her 70s, 80s, however old she was. was, she was still having seizure. It affected her for the rest of her life. Now, obviously at this point, police have no idea that Eric Cook is involved in this incident later on when he's finally caught and he starts telling the police about all the things that he had done.

He told them about this incident with Nell Schneider. and when he did, he told them that it was like a something came over him. Gibbs, he called it like a desire, a desire to hurt someone. It just nagged at him until he finally gave into it. So more than frustration. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think it was frustration. I don't know if he was frustrated about anything. There was something about Eric Cook where he,

he felt a need, right? And a lot of serial killers have talked about this, the need, the nagging, the frog demon, whatever you want to call it. He had this thing that was propelling him or that's probably not the right word to hurt people. Right. He wanted to see people hurt. He wanted to hurt people. He committed his first murder in January of 1959 when he stabbed a 33-year-old Perth beautician named Panina Berkman stabbed her to death with a knife while she was in her bed sleeping. This is a very brutal murder. It was said that Cook stabbed her in the face repeatedly. This was a big thing for him as far as entering someone's house while they were sleeping

and hurting them. It's a whole new level. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is, you know, obviously the worst thing he's ever done to date. it's his first murder, but just bring a knife down repeatedly over top someone into their face. That is something that for most people is hard to imagine, but then he switched up and did the same thing right to her heart. And obviously this killed her.

And then he left the house. In April of 60, he once again stole a car and ran someone down. This time it was 19-year-old Glenys Peek. As she was walking back to her home, she had been at a dance. And Peake survived, just as Nell Schneider had. But the interesting thing about Glenys is that later on, once Cook is caught and his face is plastered, she said that she recognized him. He had given her a ride in his car once or twice before.

she said he'd been a nice guy. So he was his size and her up. Maybe. You know? Maybe. Yeah. Or he was just driving along, saw someone. Maybe he knew it was her.

Maybe he didn't. Right. But that frog demon inside him took over and said, I'm going to run this girl down. Well, there's definitely a frog demon out there. The other thing is he's stealing these cars. So you get up in the morning to go to work. you go out to your car, what's it going to look like? That's true.

When Eric Cook has stolen it and literally rammed into a human being, there's got to be some kind of like, what the heck happened here? All right, Gibbs, let's take a quick break to talk about sponsors. You've heard me talk about Poshmark before. My wife is cleaning out closets. She's getting ready to get some new spring clothes. A lot of us do that. She is going to use Poshmark.

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off your first purchase. Just enter the invite code true crime when you sign up. That's invite code true crime. Hey folks, we all know someone that struggles with migraines. It could even be yourself. It is the absolute worst. But now it's a little easier to treat migraines from the comfort of your own home thanks to Cove. Cope starts out with a simple consultation by a licensed physician, and then the prescription that they determine is best for you is sent directly to your door. This is not the same treatment for everyone. It is tailored to you specifically. They even reach out after a few weeks to see how you're feeling. They educate you, and this is doctor supervised. A doctor who is licensed to practice medicine in the state you live in will be the one who prescribes your

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You know what it is, Gibbs? I had no idea what it is. I have no idea either. I mean, it's a big national holiday. Raise a lights. Yeah. It's January 26th. Okay.

Is when Australia Day is. But I guess it's the date of the landing. of the first fleet of British ships back in 1788, and it's something they celebrate every year. It's kind of like our Fourth of July. They're not celebrating independence, but... But didn't the British take their prisoners, people they didn't want in Great Britain,

and boat them down to Australia? And that's where they... Hey, let them celebrate whatever they want to celebrate. I don't know the history behind it. I'm just saying, you know. Yeah, it's a good day. know exactly what they're celebrating. As a lights, we're here.

But the reason why I'm comparing it to our 4th of July, a lot of people get the day off to celebrate. We do. There's picnics. There's fireworks, things like that. Uncle Bobby takes his clothes off and he goes streaking. Every time. Sorry, that's probably relegated just to my family.

I shouldn't be airing that kind of dirty laundry. Unless there's, and there might be a lot of people listening that have an Uncle Bobby. that when he's had a couple of lining coogles, he will take his clothes off and go streaking. Too much comes out to play. Sometimes. Sometimes. You ought to know.

That could just be in my family, though. That's why I keep saying no when you ask me to come over for certain events. Is that why you don't come to any of the family events? I try to avoid them, yes. But for Eric Cook, Australia Day in 1963. and really into the next morning was when he decided to go on a rampage. So 40-year-old barmaid Rowena Reeves. She was having an affair with a 27-year-old married businessman named Nicholas August.

So it was in the early morning hours of the 27th. So technically the day after Australia Day, but this rampage is often reported as happening on. on Australia Day. And really, to me, 1, 2, 3 a.m. I look at it as the, kind of the tail end of the night before.

And I'm sure it made it more interesting when they wrote it up in the papers to say, this happened on Australia Day. Oh, I think so. So this couple, Roena and Nicholas, they're sitting in a parked car. They're drinking, carrying on a little bit. When all of a sudden, Eric Cook walks up,

to the car with a rifle. And he shoots the rifle into the car. The bullet goes through the back of Nicholas's neck and into Rowena's wrist. So somehow he was sitting in the front seat. She was sitting in the backseat. And to hear her tell the story, she saw the guy with the gun. And she tried to push Nicholas's head down out of the way. So her hand, I think, was on his neck. So that's how the shot got her hand. Yeah, went through both his neck and her hand at the same time. I'm not really sure why they were sitting in the front and the back, but.

To each of their own. You've done crazier. Oh, I've done much crazier. There you go. But even with this shot through the back of his neck, Nicholas is able to start the car. And he takes off. as Eric Cook fires another shot, but this one misses the pair. So amazingly, they were able to get away, drive off, and they both survive.

But Cook's not even close to being done, right? For one thing, I don't think he's happy with the fact that his first two victims got away. It's Australia Day. He's all amped up. He's going to do something big. Well, it didn't work out, right? These people drove off. Didn't happen the way that he thought it would happen.

So he climbed up on the balcony of a house and he shot 29-year-old accountant Brian Weir in the head through an open door. Because he could. Because he could. Now, for one thing, it was really hot outside. So a lot of people had their windows open, their doors open. Brian survived. But he was in a coma for many months. And then even when he came out of the corner,

he was blind in one eye, had lost the hearing in one ear, he couldn't speak and was paralyzed on his right side. So you're talking about that shot to the head. It caused a lot of damage. Yeah, it did. It's life-changing, man. Oh, definitely life-changing. And not in a good way, right? You can use that term in a couple of different ways. If you win the lottery, that's life-changing. That's life-changing. You get shot in the head in certain. survive also life changing, but but in a much different way. A huge different way. Cook's next two victims would not survive.

And we're still in the same Australia day, late, early morning timeframe. Cook shot 18 year old John Sturkey in the head while he was sleeping. And a very similar situation, right? Walking around found a house with a window o'clock. or a door open. I'm not sure which one exactly, but saw this person sleeping, leveled his rifle, and he shot this man in the head, 18 year old man, boy. Just a kid, man. Kid. Yeah, really. My daughter's 18. I do not think of her as a woman. She is still a kid. Yeah. And maybe that's because we're getting older, I'm getting older, whatever it is. But I know technically you're an adult at 18.

Yeah. I don't know. Mentally, I'm just not, I'm not buying it with my own. Now, other kids might be different and I'm not putting her down. She's a great kid. Oh, she is. You got, both your kids are great and, you know, and they're both beautiful. And I've seen them when they have some of that, uh, Sephora stuff on them. Oh, they got a lot of Sephora stuff.

And I've seen them when they don't, you know. Well, see, and that's the thing. My 18 year old can definitely look 18 or older. Yes. With all that makeup. that she uses and all of that. But in between the ears, sure.

I don't think of her as an 18 year old because of the things that she says to me. Yeah, she's a smart girl, but she doesn't have that. She just hasn't. Street smart. Yeah, she hasn't got them yet. Yeah.

She'll get them. But anyway, it doesn't matter. If you're 18 years old, I think of you as a kid, I guess, probably. Yeah. And I think that's just a product of us getting... It can be like us growing up on the streets, man. Rough times.

You had some rough times? growing up on the streets playing dice and back alleys yep robin kFCs one point you had to bet you had to bet your uPS shorts you had to throw those into the pot i did and sit there in your tidy whitties rob mcdonalds get a big mac you never robbed no mcdonalds hardies you rubbed okay i believe that not macdonald but i believe you robbed hardtie so that was john sturkey right he died cook then went the next street over, found another house, but he changed it up again. This time he rang the doorbell at the home of 55-year-old George Wamsley. And when Wamsley opened the door, there stood Eric Cook, rifle in his hand, and he shot him right in the head. And he died. Right. So he's killed two people back to back. No rhyme or reason for these attacks, no idea who this person was. was eventually press are going to give this killer the moniker the night caller for all these

census acts yep yeah the night caller but again police have no idea who this guy is people in perth were scared you know there was talk about having their baseball bats ready their guns loaded no one went out at night alone the authorities started putting undercover detectives on the street at night walking around, but they don't catch Eric Cook. That would take about seven more months. And during that time frame, he struck multiple times. His first attack came about three weeks after the Australia Day shootings. He crept into the house of 24-year-old Lucy Madrill, again, while she was asleep in her bedroom. I said he liked to vary it up and he did, but this was kind of the one thing that he did quite a bit of.

When he murdered people, he tended to do it while they were sleeping. Hence the night crawler. Or the night caller. Because he's crawling in the window. So you're changing up the moniker? Yeah. Not misremembering what we just talked about.

No way. It couldn't be that. My mind is a steel trap. It's sharp, man. It's as sharp as raise a light. I like it. But this is rough, right? He breaks into the house of Lucy Madrill. She's asleep. He jumps on top of her in the bed. And first he starts to strangle her with his hands. And he does this until she passes out. Then he took the cord from a lamp, you know, on the nightstand. And he strangled her with that until she died. But then he raped her after she was. After she was. And then he raped her. After she was. You know, was dead. So you can see, you know, he's, his crimes are progressing, increasing. Yeah. After he did that, he dragged her body out of the house to the neighbor's yard. And somewhere

along the way or in that neighbor's yard, he found an empty whiskey bottle that he used to violate this poor 24 year old woman violated her again. It's terrible. And keep in mind, she's dead. He left the whiskey bottle, cradled in her arms, and took off. And to me, this is such a strange murder. Obviously, it's horrific, but it's strange. It's random like the others, but it's not a shooting. This is a strangulation with a sexual assault post-mortem. And then to drag the body out of the house and leave it on the neighbor's lawn.

Why? I mean, you are taking a bunch of. of unnecessary chances. Right. That you haven't before, right? Everything else was shoot, boom, out. I mean, what are the chances that somebody is going to see you out in the yard with a body? I just, I couldn't wrap my mind around why he chose to do that.

And unfortunately, I don't think he ever gives a reason. Cook then took a short break before murdering 18 year old Shirley. McLeod in August 63. Shirley is babysitting for a couple that night, and it starts to get late. A couple is still out. They're having fun. The kids are asleep and Shirley falls asleep on the couch. Well, Eric Cook broke into this couple's home and he saw Shirley McLeod asleep on the

couch. He has his 22 rifle with him and he fired it, shot her in the head, killed. her. Now, when police do their forensic testing, they find out that this 22 didn't match the other murders. Because you know right off the bat, they're thinking, this has to be the night caller. Right. Who else shoots somebody in the head while they're sleeping with a 22? But it doesn't match. So you, but you have to look at it. Right. So not only did Cook select random victims change up his methods of murder, but when he did shoot his victims, he used different rifles. I mean, you talk about making it very difficult on police. So this is not like our typical killer,

man. I mean, he is every different direction you can think of. Which again, makes it very hard for police. The thing that I kept coming back to, the question that was popping into my head was, is this guy that smart? Because he didn't seem to be that. smart. He only made it to, you know, he dropped out of school when he was 14 years old. I didn't get to sense that he was intelligent. In fact, I think he might have had some learning disabilities. But maybe he figured it out to have a variety. Or maybe it's just him, right? Maybe it's what he wants. He wants that variety. Right. He needs that. I guess that's where I was that, that's where that question really lies. Is he doing this because he thinks it's going to throw off the police and make it harder for

them to catch him or is he doing it because that's what he wants to do. I'm going to go with he's probably doing it because it's what he wants to do. I have that feeling too. I have that feeling too. I don't think he's as calculating as some people might think he is. I just don't. I think, again, this is just his whim of the day. And that's the direction he goes.

Well, if you look at some serial killers that have a very specific type, right? That's what they want to do. They are targeting somebody that looks like this. Right. Makes logical sense that you could have some people that go the other way. They want to do something different with each murder. Sure. And I think that's, this is where this guy kind of fits in.

Now, this was a huge investigation, right? You got somebody shooting people all over the city. Police did find a fingerprint at the Shirley MacLeod crime scene. So at least they had that to go on, but they don't know who it is. I saw reports from police that they fingerprinted over 30,000 males. That's a lot, man. That number is huge. It said, I saw one report that said it was kids as young as 12 and up.

I saw one report that said 14. But not only that, they located and test fired over 60,000 22 rifles. Oh, wow. That's crazy. Those numbers don't even seem possible to me. They're just staggering. Also, it seems like everybody in the area has a 22 right. Maybe they needed those 22s, man, to get those snakes and those spiders that are bigger than a dog here and all those other poisonous, scary creatures.

Well, that's one thing Australia has. They have a lot of things that will kill you. And the dangoes ate the babies. You said dangoes. Dangoes. Dangos. Dango. But actually, when you say it that way, I guess it's kind of right.

Yeah. It makes it sound like it's authentic. Yeah, I don't know. Those numbers really stood out to me as being staggering. But then police caught a break. And this happens when a couple is out walking. They find a rifle. They call police.

The police come get it. They test it. And when the results came back, It was the same weapon that killed Shirley McLeod. And this is what I said in the beginning. The downfall of Eric Cook and how they identify him and all of that to me is fascinating. Because it's this rifle that ultimately brings him down. So what police decided to do was take this rifle back to the area where it was found and they put it back, like where they found it.

Yeah. But they tied it down to a. ranch. Then for weeks, police hit across the street and camouflage, waiting for the killer to come back. So I guess they just figured that the killer dumped the rifle there thinking that, you know what, I'll come back later, I'll get it, no big deal. And the police were right. Man pulls up. Now it was 17 days later, so it was a lengthy stakeout. And it turns out to be Eric Cook. Police. Police nab him after he gets out of his car. He walks over to pick up the rifle. They pounds. Also inside his car, they find a 22 bullet that matches the gun that he has just come back to get. And it matches

the bullets that killed Shirley McLeod. They got to be happy there. Yeah. So really good evidence that they've just acquired enough to arrest him. Sure. He's arrested on September 2nd, 1963. And he holds out for a little bit saying, I don't know what you're talking about. But eventually, he starts confessing. And not just to the five incidents on Australia Day. He starts telling them about eight murders, 14 attempted murders. Wow. He's telling them about all kinds of things. He's just letting the cat out of the bag. Yeah. So he's going through detailing out, you know, the things that we've talked about. When authorities ask, cook why he committed the crimes he did he said no reason I just wanted to hurt people did it for the fun

well first of all that is a reason sure so to say for your own enjoyment so to say no reason is technically not correct it's a reason it's a horrible reason but it is a reason it's it's really when you think about it's enough to make the hair on the back of your neck stand up do you have hair on back of your neck. I do. It's one of the few places where I have hair. Okay. On the back of my head and then it grows down the back of my neck, sure. But just solely based on the fact that somebody could be so callous, so cavalier about, you know, taking another person's life. For what reason? Because he just wanted to hurt people. It's about as cold as he can be. It really is. I mean. Now, he also went on to say that he didn't know any of the victims and that he didn't know any of the victims. And that he was about,

he was just a cold-blooded killer. He also ended up confessing to about 200 different break-ins. So he was definitely a prolific burglar in, you know, his time, the years leading up to the murders. But to me, it's what he said in confessing to these burglaries, these robberies, that was the most interesting. Because authority said, this guy could remember every last detail of a robbery. They said that Eric Cook could tell them what the nomination of coins and bills he took from a house two, three, four, five years ago. I can't remember if I took my pills in the morning.

This guy saying, yep, I got, I don't know what they use over there. But he's, he's recalling, recounting everything. Oh, and very minute, fine detail. That turns out to be correct. Right, it's not just that he's giving them details. They can corroborate those details, and they're just amazed that he can remember that stuff from years ago. So I have a clip of Eric Cook talking, kind of going through his confessions, and I want everyone to be able to hear from him directly. It's a little long, but I think it's worth it.

And then what did you do? I got here with the Henson. Where? Left temple. How many times did, and I think I should say the witness indicated with his finger the temple just above the left eye. How many times did you hit her with the hatchet on the head? Four times. Three or four times. Where else besides that particular place? On the front of the end. What?

The forehead. And the front of the furred, the witness indicating with his fingers the front of the forehead. So that was the first blow. Well, now, what were the other blows? More savage ones, I'm right? More what? Savage ones. What do you mean by more savage ones?

With this? With the chopping edge of the hatchet. And where did you hit the woman with that? On the front, you mentioned it sideways. Do you mean you've chopped it along there? No, no. So that was Eric Cook talking in court. The thing about it is he's talking about a murder, a hatchet murder that we haven't talked about yet.

It's coming up in a little bit. But I definitely wanted everybody to hear his voice. He's hard to understand. And you really get a sense that the surgeries that he had to correct some of those issues, it left him with a, I guess you'd call it a speech. impediment. Yeah, I would say so. You can hear it.

Just a month after Eric's arrest, his oldest son, Michael, drowned when he was nine years old. Michael had some learning disabilities, but he was taking a swimming class at a place called Sandy Beach Reserve with 22 other kids who also had learning disabilities. These 32 other kids came out of the water, but Michael didn't. And by the time they realized it, they got to his body. They tried to resuscitate him, but they were not successful. He died. I just thought the timing of it.

I mean, first of all, to have, you know, a nine-year-old dies is terrible. Tragic, yeah. But this happened a month after his father was arrested for these horrible crimes. But we talked about it. Eric Cook confessed. But even though he confessed to, you know, all these crimes, when it came to, you know, time for his trial, he pleaded not guilty by reasoned insanity. His lawyers argued that he was schizophrenic, but state mental health experts testified that he was completely sane. So that

didn't fly. His defense gave evidence of the violence he experienced in his childhood. He talked about his head injuries and his suspected brain damage. Resulting from those injuries, his history, his trial only lasted three days. And he was convicted of murder and sentence to death. And I want to play this clip from a 1963 broadcast where they were going out on the street, they were interviewing people trying to find out their thoughts of whether or not Eric Cook should be hanged. That week.

Do you think that Eric Edgar Cook should hang? Yes, definitely. Why do you feel that way? because he's a vicious and violent murderer and he doesn't deserve any sympathy from anybody whatsoever in spite of the fact that anything these parsons might get together and hold meetings and protest meetings I have no sympathy with Cook or he's that type of person whatsoever. Yes they definitely do until he is hung there will always be a reminder to the people he wronged that the book can't be closed.

Every time that something comes up about him, if they want to let him off with a bit of leniency or put him in a mental asylum or talking about his family, it will open the saw in the hearts of all the people and it would bring them more grief. Once he's dead, well, it's gone and forgotten, let it be closed and finished.

Are you in favour of hanging Eric Edgar Cook? No, I am not. Why do you say that? Because I don't think it's a Christian idea at all. I don't think the two blacks make a white. And I think when a person commits murder, they must do it in some emotional crisis. And when we commit, when we hang anybody,

we are committing a murder. It was a callous murder of what he done. Very callous. I shouldn't waste money on trial on him, and a man will do what he done. I think he should definitely hang. I like that, Gibbs, because, you know, that's going back to 1963. Yeah.

And getting the man, the woman on the street. I think most of the people were in favor of him hanging. But it's really the woman that wasn't that got my attention. At a certain point in there, she said what I originally thought was two wrongs don't make a right. But that's not what she said. No. Two blacks don't make a white.

I don't think it has anything to do with race, but I'm not exactly sure what it means. My assumption is it means the same thing as two wrongs don't make a right, but I found it very odd phrasing. Maybe it's something that is said in Australia or was back then. I really don't know. Maybe back then, you know. But it definitely didn't have anything to do with race. But I found it odd.

It is odd. I'm sure we might get some responses. Yeah, I hope we do. I hope we do. Because I've listened to it a couple of times. And every time I'm like, what is she talking about? Eric Cook was hanged in Fremantle jail at 8 a.m. On the morning of October 27th, 1964.

So they didn't wait long, right? He was arrested in late 63. His trial wrapped up pretty quickly. and by October of 64, he's going to be hanged. But not long before the execution was carried out, Eric Cook confessed to two more murders. These were the murders of Rosemary Anderson and Gillian Brewer. And we're going to talk more about them in depth in a minute.

But I want to talk a little about Cook's execution. And it's something that we definitely don't see here today in the States, there were no demonstrations. Outside during his execution, there was a paper that said there was one woman standing outside. She was opposed to the hanging and she felt sorry for Cook's widow. She told the paper that. She also told them that she was surprised that she was the only one out there. Just her. Just her. But it wasn't like there were a bunch of people cheering that this man was being hanged either. It just didn't happen. Yeah, well, you didn't have either side. No. Yeah. Cook's was the ninth hanging in Western Australia since 1928, not a huge number,

but he was the last man hanged in Western Australia. So he has that distinction. He's buried at Fremantle. And he's buried right next to the last woman to be hanged in Western Australia, a woman named Martha Rendell. She was hanged in 1909. And then Western Australia outlawed capital punishment altogether in 1984. But now we've got to get into these two murders. Rosemary Anderson and Jillian Brewer were killed. Cook said he did it before his execution.

It wasn't until 1998, 34 years after his death, that his wife, Sally came out and broke her silence. She said that just prior to her husband's execution, he confessed to her about killing these two women. His wife said that he once told her he couldn't think of anything worse than somebody dying for what somebody else had done. And these are extremely interesting cases in their own right.

Because two individuals were sent to jail for the murders. John Button was convicted of the 1963 hit and run manslaughter that killed his girlfriend, Rosemary Anderson. Rosemary was run down at night while walking home from his house. John's house. This is her boyfriend. I think they got in a fight that night. She said,

you know what? I'm walking. Eventually, what John says is that, all right, he got in his car. to go after her, but found her lying in the middle of the street dead. And apparently someone saw him pick up her body and drive to the closest hospital.

Now, to me, Gibbs, I would think that's what a boyfriend would do, a husband, anybody that loves somebody. Sure. Makes sense to me. You'd scoop that person up, try to get him to the hospital as soon as you could. The problem is with his car. John Button's car had a big dent in the front of it, which looked like it could have come from hitting someone.

Instead of a kangaroo. Or maybe a kangaroo. But the fact that his girlfriend had just been hit, it made it look like he had hit her. Not good. They brought him in for questioning and he confessed. Now, later on, he would say that this was a false confession. It was a coerced confession. the police would not let him leave that room until he confessed to the murder.

See, I would have camped out, man. You would have camped out where? In that room. You're not going to leave until you confessed. If I didn't do it, I'm not going to say I did to leave. I think that way too. But we keep hearing these cases. We keep talking about these cases.

And I don't think these individuals are soft necessarily. I just think they are put under. so much stress. Yeah. So much duress by police. And again, now, we're talking early 60s. Sure. Who knows what the police were doing?

What kind of techniques? Yeah. What they were doing back then. But whatever it was, it made two individuals confess to murders that they didn't do. Because we're getting ready to talk about the second one. The other thing about the murder of Rosemary Anderson was that police were able to establish that. Eric Cook was out that night in that area and was driving a stolen car that had major damage to

its front end. And they knew that he had confessed, right? He confessed before being executed. He was executed in 63. But they had John Button's confession. And they moved forward with a trial. He was convicted and sent to jail. So even though he recanted his confounded. He. affection. Eric Cook had confessed to it. Buttons in jail. The second victim was Jillian Brewer. She was found murdered in 1959. So, you know, like three or four years earlier. Right. Brewer was the heiress to a Melbourne chocolate fortune. She was rich, wealthy. Chocolate fortune. A chocolate, like a, I'm thinking like a Willie Wonka type situation. Wow. But this was another extremely.

brutal murder. This time involving a hatchet. And this is really what the clip was about that you heard earlier. I could have played it here. And maybe it would have made more sense. But I had it earlier because I wanted you to hear him talking about confessing to crimes as we were talking about that part. So Cook enters Gillian's apartment, finds her asleep in the bed. He's standing over her with this hatchet. And he just starts bringing it down again and again. Kills her. Of course.

Then he goes to the fridge, gets some lemonade, goes out on the veranda, sits down and drinks his lemonade because that's what you do. That's what you have to do, I guess. After you've committed a hatchet murder. But he wasn't done. He went back into Gillian's bedroom. She's already dead, but he took a pair of scissors and stack. her many times. Like I said, this was a very brutal murder. Absolutely brutal. But police zeroed in

on a 19-year-old man named Darrell Beamish. And Darrell Bemish just happened to be both deaf and mute. But he lived near Gillian Brewer. So police were questioning him. And I think they questioned him pretty hard. And he signed a confession. He was convicted at trial, sent to prison. And despite the confession of Eric Cook, right? Yeah, didn't matter. He ended up serving like 15 years for this murder that he didn't commit. So both of these guys, right? John Button was not acquitted of Rosemary's murder until 2002. I don't have when he actually got out of prison. I don't know if it was 2002 or earlier. Beemish was not acquitted of Gillian's murder until 2005. Now, he was out. he had served 15 years, but he was still a murderer, right?

For the rest of your life, you're a murderer. Yeah, it's on your record, man. You can't go get it taken off. Until 2005, when an appeals court took a look at Eric Cook, they took a look at his confession, and ultimately they ruled that it was more likely than not that he did it. So I thought that whole thing was fascinating. You know, wrongful convictions. We've been experiencing a lot of them lately here in the U.S.

Here's a couple that I'd never heard of before. That's just be, that's like the worst, right? I mean, convicted, wasn't you? Especially if you're convicted of somebody you love, the murder of somebody you love. Right, which John Button was. Darrell Beamish, I don't know if he even knew who this lady was. Yeah. And then you got to sit in jail, prison.

go through all that, the cost to try to defend yourself. And then somebody comes out and says, it was me. And their track record pretty much proves that it was them. But yeah, you're still left in there? I just, I think that's just so wrong, man. To me, it added a layer to this one. You know, the crimes of Cook are bad enough.

He was a horrible serial killer. And in any episode where we have a serial killer or a killer, of many people. So you have a lot of victims, right? In this case, there were a lot of victims that lived, right? We talked about a number of them, people that were shot in the neck and the hand and, you know, Brian Weir was shot in the head and lived. They're affected for the rest of their lives.

Absolutely. The victims that died, their families are affected for the rest of their lives. We always have that. Yeah. And you're always going to have that in these type of situations. but then you add on top of it two individuals losing their freedom for, you know, what was a pretty good amount of time for something that they didn't do. They needed Sylvester Stallone an escape plan to come get them out of there.

They needed something for sure. So I think in wrapping this up, I did want to talk about Sally Cook a little bit. She lost her husband. Obviously, he was hanged. she lost her oldest son to the drowning, but she had six children to take care of. What would that be like? She's on her own,

six kids to take care of, the family of this infamous serial killer. I don't know. I don't know. There's a lot of single moms out there with a lot of kids, you know, and they find a way to get it done. But, you know, I get that.

But is their husband slash, father of their children, also one of the most infamous serial killers? I think that just adds something to it. Sure. What I found interesting about Sally was that she didn't run from it. I think most people in her situation would have at the very least moved to a different part of Australia, if not out of Australia altogether, but not Sally. She stayed in Perth, raised her family there.

and her oldest son, Tony, went on to be the head of Western Australia's trades and labor council. Wow, that's a big deal. Yeah, so he really made something out of himself. I really didn't get anything on the rest of the family, but... Did you get that? I said it was a really big deal. Trade counsel, trade, trade, big deal. Like as in a trade as a deal?

Yeah. I got it. Okay. It's not your best work, but I got it. You weren't as excited as I thought. what he should be. I really didn't, I don't know that I got it, got it at first just because it didn't hit the mark, I don't think. No, you're probably right. Didn't land the way that you were hoping. It was just kind of disappointing. How about, wait a minute, rise the lights. Just, just following up

with something else. Oh, well, I mean, what a way to, you know, for her to hold her ground and, you know, persevere and those kids just for them to come out better than what people would have expected at them to. I mean, that's a lot to grow up with, knowing that your father, that he was a really bad man, bad killer, did terrible things. And I wonder if you're a kid, you know, if you're one of his kids. I mean, do you think that they wonder, do I have that part of him in me? I don't know how you couldn't at some point in your life. Yeah. Wonder if this is somehow hereditary, Do I have a gene that's going to turn me into a serial killer? Or do I have the same traits that my dad had?

I mean, if you one day have a bad thought about somebody, does that mean, oh, it's here? Or is it just, you had a bad thought about somebody. Sure, because we all do. Because they pissed you off. And you said, oh, I'd like to take them out back and shoot them, you know. Does it mean that you're bad? Do you think that a lot? That I want to take somebody out and shoot them?

Yeah, it's a very specific thing you just said. Because I'm here, your guns on the table. Well, that's true. Yeah. Because of you. Because. But, you know, jokes aside, pretty strong woman, I think. Mm-hmm.

You know, she didn't have anything to do with this. This wasn't her fault. No. I think you talk about making the most out of the hand that you're dealt. Yep. Sounds like she did that. Yeah. She decided to move forward instead of move backwards.

Yeah. That's the hardest thing for people to do, you know? I think so. You're right. But that's it. That's the case of Eric Edgar Cook. As you said, Gibbs, he's a bad man. He's a bad man. But not a bad man in a good way, like Muhammad Ali. No, not like that at all. And I said it like that, but I didn't mean it like that. He really was a bad man. He was. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out? I want to hear him.

Hey, Fergie and Gibby. This is Jasmine from Oklahoma. And I've been listening for a while now. And episode 10 and 11 really stuck with me. It was about the case of, you know, of 13-year-old Lauren Landabazo, who was murdered by a man who's not worth saying his name. And episode 11, you had her parents on, and y'all talked about the Texas law because the perpetrator couldn't qualify for capital punishment because Texas has stipulations. And one of them was, if the child was over 10 years old, it didn't qualify for capital punishment. Well, I looked it up as I do all the cases when I'm listening. and I actually seen that a couple weeks ago around April 16th. Lauren's law was actually passed,

and they raised the age from 10 years old to 15 years old. I honestly think it should be 17 years old, but they did up that age limit, and I just wanted to confirm you guys about that. Also, why are you not doing another hometown murder cases where a fan can be on? Because I would definitely be interested in that. You guys, keep up the good work.

Stay safe, and keep your own time tickets. Bye. So that's great. That was an episode that really sticks with me. Well, I remember that day. Because, you know, I was the one that Lauren's mom reached out to on Facebook. I was the one. I wanted you to be on, but you had something. I forget. Yeah, I remember it was a Saturday morning or something like that. And you couldn't make it. You were busy. And so I got on Skype with them. And it was just tough. It really was.

I remember you telling me afterwards how rough it was. Yeah, it was rough. But I'm glad she called in because I still do talk to them every now and then. But it's, you know, obviously the years go by, it gets fewer and farther between. But it's good that they passed that because I know they were working really hard to do it. And it really is a compelling episode. You know what I mean? I had just today, my office, I had two people come in that just listened to it.

And they wanted to come in and they talked about it. it really hit home for them. And I thought, man, you know, I remember doing it. I remember you having the conversation with the parents and just how heartwarming your conversations were. As far as the hometown listener, you and I had big plans for that. Yeah, we did. The problem became, I think we started unsolved.

We did. I think is what happened. Yeah. Then we started having to do two episodes a week. Then I started criminology. I had to do three. We just got to the point where logistically, it was just really difficult. Yeah.

Yeah. And it is tough sound wise because listeners, unless they're into podcasting, they're not going to have the equipment. So more than likely as happened in that episode, they're just talking through their computer. So sound wise, you're not going to get, the quality can't be there. Exactly. Yeah.

So we had that issue as well. But you never know. We might revisit. it? Hey, guys. This is Cameron from Lafayette, Louisiana. I just came across your podcast this morning on Bernie just a couple hours after y'all posted it. I'm actually a big follower and researcher on the Bernie Tita case, and I actually know Bernie.

We've talked quite a few times, and as luck would happen, I actually needed, I was looking for someone to listen to while I got some house cleaning done. And I'm glad to see, I think y'all gave him a fairly decent overview of the crime and all, that other stuff and I may even bring it up to him the next time she and I talk on the phone. But I had a good time to listen to you guys while I cleaned up. And I like the back and forth you too have. And I look up some more episodes. Yeah, y'all have a good day. So Cameron reached out to me on email. We've talked back and forth a little bit. That's an interesting situation. Somebody looking specifically for one case.

Sure. Finds the podcast. He probably knows way more about the case than we do. There are a lot of people out there, right? If you spent years and years researching one case, you probably know more about it than we do. We do our fair share research, but we are researching a lot of cases at one time. And we had a good talk. And it was just interesting that he said he may bring that up to Bernie. Yeah. So if Bernie has a way to listen to the episode, he might do that in prison. There you go. Hey y'all, this is Wendy from San Antonio, Texas, where the Tech meets the Met. I obviously just listened to the Bernie Tita episode, and the local guy who described the different zones of Texas was dead on.

I mean, that's very true about what we think. And I also wanted to let y'all know, Gibby, that my grandfather's name was Rex West. So every time I hear you talk about Rex West, it just makes me chuckle. We love listening to y'all and keep up the good word. Oh, and I'm team for Gibby for as in Ferguson and Gibby for Gibby. There you go. Thanks, y'all. Bye.

There's a real Wex West out there. Her grandfather was the real Rex West. Right. Gunsling. You're just an imitator. I'm just the imitator. Hi there. This is Jenny Chapman.

And I just wanted to say thank you guys so much for getting me through the day. And I am definitely team Mike and Givie. I realize the special quality. both of you hold, but I wanted to share something special. My dad and I both love true crime and we're huge fans of anything true crime. He passed away at a young age of a very traumatic illness, but I have to say Mike, when you say Keith or him or them in a certain way, it just reminds me so much of my dad. So thank you for all you guys do and for keeping your own time.

time taken and I'll do the same. Bye-bye. You know, she messaged me about that, how you say him. Oh, really? And how it really hits home with her. Yeah. Yeah. So, I do have a bunch of different words that I say a certain way that

maybe are different than most people are used to hearing them. And I hear from a lot of people about that. That either they know someone that says it like that or like you said, I remind them of someone because they had a family member that said it like that. I think when you get into like the hymns and the thames and it's probably me just being lazy and not finishing it out

fully. Right. Not wanting, yeah. But it's just the way I talk. It's the way you do it. It's who you are. It's who I am. But, you know, sorry to hear about your dad. Yeah. Sounds like he was a great guy. You know, it's interesting that she brings that up though, because. my oldest is getting into true crime. And I never thought she would. She started watching the act. Oh, yeah. And then she was watching, she was basically binging every true crime documentary she could find

on Netflix, on Hulu. And that's just something I never thought that she'd be into. I knew something was up when she asked me if I bring her a K-bar. Yeah, yeah. She's wanting to keep her head on a swivel. There you go. We got mailbag. Gibbs. Robert Mendez sent us the new John Douglas book. That's cool. Which is very exciting.

Yeah. It's called The Killer Across the Table. It looks really good. I haven't been able to dive into it yet. We just got it. But it looks like it's got some real Mind Hunter type qualities to it. And obviously it does because that's John Douglas. Melinda Wargacki sent us a true crime desk calendar. She also sent us a big boy serial killer coloring book. Really? Which I assume was for you.

She didn't say that specifically. Oh, okay. But there's no words. It's just pictures you can color. Do you have to stay within the side lines or can I go out? You don't have to, but you'll be graded accordingly. Okay. And then Sabrina Viet sent us this really big box from Germany.

A ton of really good chocolate. She sent me a Harley Chip from Munich. There's a postcard in there that just says Gibby. Just says Gibby? Yep. That I think you should frame. Gibby.

She also sent a book that I believe teaches us how to cuss in German. Oh. Voxi, that I don't believe is in there. No. But, you know, I was reading her letter and she said that beef jerky is not real common over there. Really? Which surprised me.

Because I thought all the people that immigrated to United States from Germany, they either made beer or they became butcher's. for the most part. That's what I felt. Maybe they just don't dehydrate it. They just eat it. I don't know. Yeah, she just said it wasn't real common or she would have sent some of that.

But we appreciate it. We appreciate all that stuff. And we appreciate all of you listening, downloading the episodes, telling your friends. Thank you. Yeah, it makes a big difference. But that's it. It's it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike and Gabby.

Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.