True Crime All The Time - Erin Michelle Caffey

Episode Date: March 26, 2018

Erin Michelle Caffey was a 16 year old girl who was brought up in a loving religious home. Her mom and dad were together in the home and she had two younger brothers. As most teenagers do, Erin started to experience more freedom after she turned 16. She got her driver's license and a job at a fast food place. It was there that she met a 19 year old boy named Charlie Wilkinson who would become her everything. But Erin had a problem in that her parents did not approve of the relationship. Erin's thoughts turned to murder when she thought that was the only way she could keep her dream of happiness alive.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the details of this tragic case. What makes a 16 year old girl with a loving family get it in head that they must be eliminated for her to be happy? This is a case that will scare parents of children at any age. Your job as a parent is to keep your kids safe and help them flourish, but you never think that the danger will come from within.You can help support the show by going to patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact and merchandise informationPlease help our sponsors:Havenly - Get expert interior design help online for as little as $79 per room. Go to havenly.com/tcatt to get 25% off your first design package.Eharmony - The #1 trusted dating site/app that helps people find a lasting relationship. Go to eharmony.com and use the promo tcatt at checkout to get a free month when you sign up for a 3 month subscription.Credits:Writing/Research - Maggie DobschuetzSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

and welcome to episode 71 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson, Gibby, what is going on? What's happening, man? Not much. How was your St. Patty's Day? Ah, it's good. You know what I say.

What was that, dude? That sounded like you were from East L.A. East L.A. Don't they celebrate St. Patty's Day there too? I mean, I'm sure they do, but I, I can. could have sworn that you were trying to do... Cheech and Chong or something? Yeah.

Really? I thought you were trying to do an Irish accent, and it came out like very... East L.A.? East L.A.ish. Huh. Well, now I know how to sound like I'm from East L.A. We just try to do a fake Irish accent. Basically, just try to do one of your accents, and it will fall into another category.

Exactly. There you go. I'm doing good, man. Good. So we have a bunch of new Patreon supporters. Let's give some shoutouts. We had Jenny Murray, Cool.

Rachel Bentley. Yeah. Jennifer Trumbly. Jen Garon. Garon. Garon. Yeah. Famous name.

It is. Yeah. How so? Well, if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you. No, now I want you to tell me. I think we'll just leave it right where it's at. We had Sharon Diaz, Carolyn YK. Y.K.

Just a Y and a K. Just a Y and a K. You make up what you think it stands. for. Maybe it doesn't stand for nothing. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe it's just YK. Legally. We had Kelly Morris, Samara Jacobs. Like that, Samara. That's a very cool name.

Ween, Baba Booie Farnsworth. Old Farnsworth coming at us. I don't know if that's a legal name or... O'Fonsworth. Farnsworth. Farnsworth. Yeah, Farnsworth. From a movie. Everything for you is from a movie. Yeah. This is definitely from a movie.

But the chances of you remembering what movie... Oh, well, yeah. I know it's in a movie. Oh, okay. That I know. I could say every one of these names and say that was in a movie. Well, you don't know what I'm saying. It's Fonsworth. I know it is. I can hear it in my head. You can't even say the name. Well, I get close. There's an R in it. Is there? Yeah.

Depends where you're from. So we had Rachel Zen, very peaceful. Yeah. Andrew Breck. It's a solid name, man. Breck. Breck. Yeah. Layla Shake. Yeah. Shaking it up.

Stephanie Lynn, Kim Weeks, and Katie Quigley. Nothing weak about Kim, though. No, or Katie. Katie's a huge supporter as well. Both of them. And both Kim and Katie have been Patreon supporters. They just chose to raise their support to our highest level. So I wanted to give them a special shout out.

Awesome. Thank you both. We had Sean Tomlinson, Colleen Anderson. Awesome. So great Patreon support. Mr. Anderson. Mr. Anderson. I know that's from the Matrix.

Yeah. Uh-huh. Every time I hear the Anderson, that's what I think of. I got that one. And if we go back into the Vault Gibbs, this week we selected Lindsay Whitehead. She has been with us a really long time. Lindsay, thank you. So very appreciative of that.

And then we actually had a lot of support on PayPal as well. Really? Yeah, we had Allison Sandel. Awesome. Cheryl Matalazzo. Matalazzo. Who has contributed a number of times, I believe. Awesome.

Thank you. We had Philip Finer actually jump out with a huge contribution. Really? Thank you, Philip. It's amazing. We had Kristen Burns. Yeah. Tracy Campbell made a sizable PayPal donation.

Thank you. And then Katie Quigley did as well. What? So not only is she raising her Patreon. She's everywhere. She's throwing us a little something on PayPal as well. She's everywhere, man. So, yeah.

I mean, between the financial support we get, which helps us keep doing what we're doing, we love the social media support that we get. Yeah. It just continues to increase at an amazing level. Love all our T-catters, you know, on the... Fam, fit. That's right. All these ones that are branching off.

Yeah, love it, man. And I'll say, and I've said it before, I appreciate the moderators that we have on all those sites to keep things rolling for us. Yeah, they're getting so big at this point. Gibbs, you and I definitely cannot. handle it. Yeah, we can't keep up. All right. So make sure you check out our website. If you haven't been out there lately, you know, we've got a link for a merchandise, our contact information is out there, how to get to Patreon. You know, it's patreon.com slash true crime all the time, but there's a button

right on the website. There's also a button for our PayPal. Just push it. On the donation tab. Yeah. Of our website. I guess you would click it. get, not push it. Yeah, push it good. Okay, that doesn't sound good coming from you. I just want you to know that right now. Don't you remember that song? I think you just keep rolling on, buddy.

Push it good. Just keep moving. Dun, dun dun, dun, done. Let's get past this. Oh, sorry. And so yeah, check out merchandise. And then right now, as you're listening to this episode, there's a new episode dropped on true crime all the time unsolved.

Yes. We are tackling the Connecticut River Valley Killer. It's going to be an interesting episode. It will be. As we get into the details of these crimes, the suspects, all of that good stuff. And then Maggie is back with us this week. Maggie's back. Maggie's back.

So we appreciate the research and writing help from Maggie always. All right, Gibbs. Let's get into this case, episode 71. We're talking about Aaron Michelle Caffey. And I don't know, Gibbs. These are the cases that scare the bejibis out of me. It should. Because we're talking about a 16-year-old girl.

Right. Who makes the decision that her parents need to die. And as a dad with two teenage daughters, it doesn't matter if it's a daughter or son or, you know, we did Christopher Porco. We've done a couple of episodes like this. There is just something about these types of. of episodes that really scare me down to my core. And this one should. It really should.

No, it should. Because when you think about it, you're raising your kids, you're a good parent. There are times when you're going to have to tell them, hey, you're heading down the wrong road. You can't be doing X, whatever X is. And we know how kids are. They want to do what they want to do. Right.

And some kids think they know more than that. their parents, a lot of them do. I probably did at that age myself. Guarantee it. I know you didn't. I was a good kid. No, I mean, you literally didn't know more than your parents. Nice. Like how you laid that in there? You barely knew as much as your peers. Wow. Why you hurt me so bad, man? I have to start off the episode. Nice. With a jab. That's just a jab. This is a jab. There might be a right cross coming at some point. Cut me deep there. The problem is you don't counter punch enough. That's the problem.

You know. And you're good at it. I just save it, sit back, relax, enjoy the little show you got going on. You are so full of it, dude. Off air, you'd be in full MMA mode verbally. You'd have me up against the octagon, just kneeing me right in my stomach. You'd be tapping out. Exactly.

But we get on the mic and you have to be professional gibby. A little innocent gibby. doesn't want to ruin his rep. Hey, I'm real, man. What you get, what you hear is what you get. I'm just messing with you. But it's those times where you have to tell your kids, you know, no, you can't do something, right? That results in a fight.

That results in them getting upset. And 99% of kids take that. They get mad. They get over it. And then once they get older, they realize, hey, you know, my parents did some things that back then I wasn't happy with, but I see where they're coming from. You know, I'm a parent now. Sure. You know, that's kind of how things happen. Well, the key is you're the parent. You're not their friend. Yeah. That's tough line across for many, right? I mean, they kind of want to be both,

especially as the kids get older, because you see them pulling away, wanting to do things with other people and you want to stay close. So you kind of loosen your parenting and try to become more of a friend, but you got to be careful. You do. It's a very fine line because, at the end of the day, you want to keep your kids safe. And you want them to stay on the right path. Absolutely. You do. So we're talking about Aaron Michelle Caffey. She was born on July 27th, 1991, just after I had graduated high school. She was born to Terry and Penny Caffey. And this was really what you would consider Gibbs and all American family. You know, we're in Alba, Texas. You know, all American grounded family. These were parents.

that love their kids, they worked hard, they wanted to raise their children in a home that was full of love. It was also full of religion because they were very religious. So I want to emphasize that because in a lot of stories that we tell, the person that we're talking about comes from a broken home, a home where they were abused or, you know, all of these different things we talk about. This is not going to be one of these upbringings. This was a family that worked hard, sent their kids to school, loved their children. We're not talking about bad parents here at all. No, they're doing the right thing. So you have Terry and Penny Caffey, you have 16-year-old Aaron, a younger 13-year-old Matthew, and then the youngest is 8-year-old Tyler. And Terry Caffey worked delivering medical

equipment. So he was in the home health care industry. But that wasn't his dream. You know, that was his job to make ends meet to provide for his family. But his dream was really to become a minister. And he did preach at the Miracle Faith Baptist Church. And he was working towards his goal, his dream of being an ordained minister. You know, he wanted to spread the word of God with others. As I mentioned, very religious family. The mother Penny was a very well-liked and talented seamstress. That's got some skills there, man. And that's a good person to know. Yeah. Got to be able to work that machine, man. Or do it by hand. I don't know. Or do it by hand. Yeah. But she didn't stop there. Penny also worked as a driver for a charity that delivered meals to the elderly and disabled.

That's pretty impressive, too. That's why I'm trying to get across is, Terry and Penny were great people. Yeah. I was just trying to think, could you deliver meals to people? I don't know if you could. Why not? I can drive. No, no.

I think the meals would get there. I think they might be a few, you know, like fries short or something. What? I think you crack, come up on a case and need a couple, like, I take two from this one, two from that one, two from that one, they're never no. I'm on a diet now. Now, I will go back to my younger days. Yeah.

I had this job, Gives, we always talk about our past jobs. I had this job. It was called, I think it was called takeout taxi. This was, I mean, we're talking 20 some years ago. Yeah. Yeah. Way before Uber, way before Uber eats and all these things. So what this company did is they hired people, used their own cars, and we used CB radios back in the day. Sweet. So you would get the call. Bricker one nine. Yeah. So I would get the call on my CB radio. It would be, you know, yeah, breaker one nine, sphincter, ringworm. And then they would tell me where to go. So it would be like all these different restaurants. Yeah. And I would just go pick up the order. Right. And deliver it to somebody's house.

Wow. Yeah. That's impressive. But to your point, Gibbs, there were times. And again, I'm not proud of this. Oh, here we come. That I did sample maybe some of the food. Okay.

Just to see what was. going on. But, yeah. They're like, don't they normally send like eight mozzarella sticks? Why is there only six? Why is his T-bone so, so small? Yeah. Why doesn't it look like someone cut into this?

Because Fergie had his steak knife set with him and he, he sampled it. Right now someone's ordering some food delivery service and they're thinking about, huh, maybe not a good idea. Yeah, but that was, yeah, that was an interesting job to say the least. Yeah. But getting back to Terry and. and Penny, and I don't want to drive it into the ground, but it is important to this story to know who these people are at this point in time. So just a good mom and dad. Yeah, deep-rooted

in faith. People. Wanting to raise their children to be the best that they could be. Penny also sang in a gospel ensemble that was called DeGaston Sisters. Really? And she was the pianist at church. So this lay, I don't know where she found time to do all this stuff. Yeah, man, she's busy. Very busy woman. She loved to cook and she would cook a lot of food so that she would have extra to share with the folks that attended church if they were going through hard times or whatever. Wow.

The whole family was pretty musical. Matthew and Tyler were very musical as well. Yeah. Matthew played the harmonica and the bass guitar. and Tyler played some instruments. Aaron, Aaron would sing solos in church. She also sang with her mother. It was said that she had a very, very good singing voice.

Like you and I. Like you and I. Yeah. Exactly. And there actually is, if you want to go check it out, she did an interview, I think it was with Pierce Morgan, where Aaron sang, I think it was maybe Amazing Grace or something. Really? You can hear it.

it's out there on YouTube probably somewhere. Okay. Aaron was described as cute, petite, but also someone who loved attention. But at this point in her life, she's very naive, and she had an innocence about her that went along with that naivete. Most 16-year-olds do.

A lot of them do. I don't know how much do today I worry. Yeah. About how many 16-year-olds are still have that innocence and that kind of childlike quality in today's environment? I think you'd be surprised. But as you can imagine, Terry and Penny were pretty protective, probably overprotective because they cared about their family.

They had recently moved to Alba, Texas. Aaron had gone to public school from grades one to seven in the town of Celeste. And then after moving to Alba, Aaron and her brothers were homeschooled. for about a year. But when she started as a freshman in high school, she was allowed to go to public school. As were Matthew and Tyler, even though they were younger. So this is where they started to make new friends. Things were going well for them at public school in Alba.

And then Aaron turned 16 in July of 2007. She gets her driver's license and an old Chevy pickup truck. I mean, really, Gibbs, what else do you need? Man. If you got a driver's license and a Chevy pickup truck, you're good to go. She'd be pretty happy. So she has that and then she gets a job at Sonic. And these were really big steps for Aaron Caffy.

So like I said, overprotective parents. She had been probably sheltered for most of her life. She was really for the first time seeing a lot of things outside of her church and family. Because up until this point, that had been most of her life. Right? Church and family. But as they often do, things start to happen as kids get out into, not even the real world, but out from being sheltered, I guess I would say. Aaron was seen making out with a boy at church. And apparently she let him put his hand under her shirt. At church. At church, it's a... That's not good.

It's not the ideal place to be playing around. Like going for second base? I think that is what you would call second base. base, yeah. Yeah. All right. Trying to make second base inside the church. Yeah, it doesn't seem like the best.

I mean, you have a car, you have your own truck. Yeah. You know, drive somewhere else, I guess. I hate to say that because I don't want my daughter doing that. I mean, it's life, you know. It is life. It's going to happen. Just try not to do it inside the church pew.

I think it's just the inside the church thing that kind of threw me on that one. Yeah. It's kind of risque. Risque. Yeah. That's a good word for today. Yeah. Her parents found out about this.

and she tried to invite this boy over to the house, calling him her boyfriend, but her parents weren't having any of it. They basically told Aaron that she was not allowed to see this boy again. But Aaron is going to eventually meet some people who are going to change her life. She meets 19-year-old Charles James Wilkinson, 20-year-old Charles Allen Wade, and 18-year-old Bobby Gail Johnson. Now, let's keep in mind, Aaron Caffey is a 16-year-old freshman in high school at this time. So they're two, three, four years older than her. Yeah. It's always a, I mean, it's a problem.

Can be. Can be a problem. But especially for the family that we just talked about. Right. Very overprotective. You can kind of see where this thing is headed. And these four, they kind of form their own clique, spent much of their free. time together and really just the four of them didn't spend much time with any of the other teenagers

at school. Aaron met Charlie while she was working at Sonic and she would later say that they had an instant vibe and he eventually asked her out and as often happens in the life of a 16 year old, she thought she was in love with him very quickly. Charlie was a senior in high school when he met Aaron and he wanted to join the military. He had already finished like an army pre-boot camp the summer before his senior year. He was a good student, never really had any major type of problems. The only thing that was really said about Charlie Wilkinson was that he was into really big cowboy hats, Gibbs, like you are. Got to wear them big. 10, 15, 20 gallon. Got to wear them big, man. If you're going to go at all, go big. Always go big, yeah.

But he liked these big cowboy hats and he would wear him to school and teachers would be forced to ask him to take off his hat. Probably because nobody behind could see what the hell was going on at the board. He didn't like this. He wanted to wear his hat and he would sometimes get into arguments with teachers over this. But again, other than that, most of the stuff that you read about him is pretty benign. Charles Wade had already graduated. But not only that Gibbs, but as a 20-year-old, He was already married, separated, and was in the process of getting a divorce.

That can happen. It can happen, but it happened young for him. Yeah. He did have a five-month-old child that was in this mix, and he wanted custody of this five-month-old child, but that's not cheap. And for a 20-year-old, that can be a daunting task. He needed $2,000 for the legal fees to move this custody. attempt along. So this is kind of play a factor in what's to come. 18 year old Bobby Johnson worked at the

local Dairy Queen and was the new girlfriend of Charles Wade. So this is kind of how all the pieces of the puzzle fit together. Aaron and Charlie like each other. Bobby and Charles Wade like each other. And Bobby said that she was deeply in love with Charles. Bobby was known as bright, smart, articulate. She did some theater. She was well liked. But things for her, just like they would with Aaron, start to change when she hooks up with Charles Wade. She ditched all of her old friends and she started skipping school. Now we get back to Aaron. She's falling in love with 19 year old Charlie Wilkinson. They were seeing holding hands at school. They were ditching school, sneaking out so that they could

kiss and do whatever teenagers do when they sneak out of school. But the key thing about this is no shock, Terry and Penny Caffey did not approve of Charlie. But Aaron didn't care. She was head over heels in love with him. Charlie started to show up at church services where church members saw them by themselves sitting, holding hands. Okay. And this kind of became a known

thing within the church community that the Kathy family was at odds with Aaron over her dating this Charlie Wilkinson. But I don't think church members made a lot out of it. They probably thought that these were just the normal problems that come on with teenage love. Yeah, I think so. It's not like alarm bells were going off in anyone's head at this point. No. This is normal teenage type things that that all teenagers go through, no one could have thought that things were going to progress and end up the way that they do. The pastor's wife at the church would later come out and say that she noticed Aaron was different. And even the pastor and his wife, they warned Aaron against getting involved into something that they felt was just way over her head, way, way too deep for her.

And there is. You know, there's always going to be that. I don't want to say maturity level. So I can't really put a name to it. But, I mean, there's definitely a gap between those ages at those early stages of life, you know, things that you learn and situations that you are able to handle. Well, I think three years is not a big age difference. But at least my thought, Gibbs, is the younger you are, the bigger it is. Right.

If you're 30 years old, dating a 27-year-old, there's not much difference there, maturity level-wise. I think when you get past a certain, I mean, you can be 40 and date a 52-year-old. You can date a 25 and a 35, no big deal. All right. Well, you don't have to go through your whole dating history. Oh. I mean, you can just use other examples.

Why do you always have to use real-life examples? I don't know, because it's trying to keep it real. But would you agree with that? I mean, I'm sure there's some 16-year-olds and 19-year-olds that are very close maturity-wise, but there can be some that are... Big gaps. Big differences. Yeah.

It's one of the reasons why we talked about and kind of harped on the fact that Aaron Kathy was sheltered. She had not been exposed to a lot of the things that many other 16-year-olds probably would have already been exposed to. Yeah. There's a level of what I call street smarts that comes up, you know, when you aren't so sheltered, when you allow your kids to kind of, you can still keep them safe and protect it, but you kind of got to let them get out there and get a little dirty.

Does that make sense? I don't know if dirty's the right word. Let them get a little... I think I know where you're... Let them stumble a little bit. No, experience. Yeah. There are some things that you need to experience, hopefully in the safest way possible.

Yeah, you're ready there. You're ready there to catch them, pick them up, dust them off, push them back out again, but, you know. You're going to have to stumble some. Yeah. I mean, if you're, you can't be in a bubble. No. For 16 years. And then all of a sudden be exposed to what I would call.

called the real world. The world tear them up, man. You're not going to be equipped for that. And I'm not saying she was in a bubble, but she was very sheltered. Yeah. And Aaron, I think, is walking a very fine line at this point. She wants her parents to be happy. But she is also deeply in love with Charlie from the standpoint that a 16-year-old can be

deeply in love. But she did give them some pause when she started talking about, you know, how possessive Charlie was also the fact that he apparently liked to drink quite a bit. So that's not going to make her parents feel any better about this relationship that she has with Charlie in any way. No, I mean, you got underage drinking and... But you go back to being 16 years old and being in love and thinking that, okay, this is the person I'm going to be with forever. Well, how often does that really happen? Not very often. But at the time when you're in that feeling, it feels like it.

And this is where Aaron was. She thought she was going to be with Charlie forever. Yeah. And her parents were starting to stand in the way of that. And they begin fighting all of the time almost exclusively over Charlie. Her parents didn't like him. They didn't want Aaron dating him. They didn't like the age difference.

Like we mentioned, his excessive drinking and how he appeared to be. extremely controlling of Aaron. So I'm kind of siding with them on this. There's a lot of red flags here as a dad that would make me think this might not be the most stable relationship for you to be involved in as a 16 year old. Yeah, I think it would have been a hell no for me. Mm-hmm. Like, sorry.

And there might have been some of that. 19-year-old, 20-year-old, whatever. At that age, your thoughts are about basically one thing. So, you know. What is that one thing, Gibbs? They're out there for that booty call, man. That's what you say today. That's what they're out there for.

No, I get you. And if you think they're not, then you're missing something there because most 18, 19-year-old boys are not thinking about marriage. No. That's not what they're into at that point in time. I'm not saying that none of them are respectful, but I'm telling you, there's a good amount out there that they're just thinking about hooking up. And that's it. You know, they might come off really great. But sometimes that's as part of the game. Yeah, we know you're speaking from experience. I'm saying that's just part of the game. 19 year old Gibby. For the hookup. Going over, flattering the mom. How you doing, Mrs. Smith?

Engratiating himself. Hello, Mrs. Brock. How are you today? Again, are you giving out real names from your girlfriends? Just, is your daughter home? Take her to a movie. I'll have her back by 10. All right, Gibbs, let's take a quick break to talk about our sponsor, Havenly. Havenly is the most delightful way to design spaces in your home, and you can do it on any budget. You get to partner with an interior designer to create a beautiful space based on your unique style. And what is amazing about Havenly is you're working with this designer, you're figuring out what you want to do, but then you can buy everything you want directly through the Havenly platform because you're working. you have access to hundreds of retailers and the guaranteed best prices.

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Enter our code T-C-C-C-A-T-T at checkout. Terry Caffee would say that he had reservations from the very beginning. He was quoted saying there were just things about Charlie that didn't sit right with him. And I think we named some of those things. Yeah. Now, on February 21st, 2008, Terry Caffey went to visit his father, Clarence, who everyone called Sunny. And when Terry got to Sunny's house, he found his father dead of natural causes. Yeah.

He had just died. It happens. So you have to think about this emotional state that Terry's in. He's extremely worried about his daughter and what she has going with this relationship with Charlie and his father has just passed away. Sure. Man, he's on a emotional roller coaster. Yeah, it would be extremely, uh, turbulent emotionally for him at this point. Yeah, absolutely it would be. It was after the funeral of his father, the cafes found out some more disturbing information about Charlie Wilkerson through his MySpace page. And I don't even remember MySpace.

You were huge on it. No, I didn't have a MySpace page. You did. It was like, I really don't even remember how it worked, to be honest with you. This is like Facebook, pretty sure it was. Mm-hmm. Not 100% positive. You give yourself away every time. I think it was geared towards more like the music world though. Was it?

Yeah, I think so. I don't think you know what the hell you're talking about. I probably don't. I do remember like Justin Timber like bought it or something at its low point. After it kind of fizzled. Yeah, they were going to, you were trying to like revive it or something. Maybe that's when it became about music. I think it was before then.

We like it when people tell us. We like it when people tell them. There's somebody out there probably still has a MySpace. I think it did try to make a comeback. I don't know if it's still around or not. Facebook will be going out soon. You think? I don't know. I doubt it. There's always something new coming up though. There is. I don't know what it's going to be. If we did. Givey book. Givey book. Yeah. Gibby book. Three subscribers. So they sit down Aaron after learning some, some this disturbing information. And they're talking to her and they're saying, again, you're not going down the right path. And it's at this point that they kind of lay down the law.

And they say, we don't want you to see Charlie anymore. They took her phone away, which we kind of know Gibbs. That's about one of the worst things you can do to a teenager these days. Especially now, man. It's like the end of the world. I mean, if they take their phone away, oh my gosh. Yeah, it causes huge fights in the Ferguson household. I mean, even an adult loses their phone.

They freak out now. Yeah. But what they didn't know, what the Cathies didn't know, was that Aaron was already behind the scenes formulating a plan. She had decided that the only solution to her problem of being able to see Charlie was to kill her parents. I just want to think how you get to that point, you know, in the thought process that you just jump from, you know, could I run away? could I do this? Could I just sneak behind them? Or what if I just kill them? What if I just take them both out completely?

Then it won't be a problem anymore. It is a huge leap. Yeah. Especially for a 16-year-old. But nowhere along that thought process is she going to think about, I'm still underage. I'm still going to have some form of legal guardian, either appointed by the court or some family member,

so it's still going to have the same issues. Yeah, but maybe that family member is going to let me. me see Charlie. Maybe. I don't know. Yeah. The problem is you don't know who that person's going to be. You know what's harder than actually trying to get into your head, trying to get into the head of a 16-year-old girl. Yeah, that'd be more difficult than my head. I try it all the time and you can't makes my life a living hell. The good part and the funny part for me is when I come over here and both me and your 16-year-old or sitting at the table, we actually relate really easy. Yeah, you guys are

into the same things. Fast food, junk food. She understands what I'm saying. No, it's not the correct where she's, she's like, yeah, yeah, like there you go. Her speech is a lot like your speech. Yeah, we're right there on the same page. What does that say about me? I don't know. I don't know. But, you know, getting back to this, when you think about it, what have they done? They've taken away her phone and they've told her that they want her to stay away from Charlie. So things that she loves. and now she's thinking they have to die. It's a different spin on the old Romeo and Juliet. But apparently she had been planning this for a while, right?

Because this didn't happen like all at one time. It happened over, you know, a period of time. Sure. She was planning this while she was at the funeral of her grandfather. Wow. And she had apparently spent about a month talking about this idea with her friends. Now that's a strange conversation to have. And what are these friends thinking and why are they not, you know, speaking up?

Yeah, a little red light going off somewhere. Most likely it's because they thought it was just bluster, right? Just talk. Yeah. I'm mad at my parents. I wish they would go away. Wish they were dead. Yeah.

I wonder how I could kill them. Anybody here want to help me? Is that kind of how it probably went? I don't know. That would be a little bit more of an alarm bell if that's how it actually went. You know, Charlie would later be quoted. as saying, Aaron and I were in love, and the only way we could be together was to kill her parents. So I think that sheds a lot of light on how messed up this situation is and what these two young

people are thinking. Let me, it really is. It's, it's, I don't even say bizarre. It's just crazy. Well, to think, to get to that thought process. And to get there so quickly. Yeah, it ramps up, boom. They got to that, that kind of.

of indecision what in my eyes seems to be very, very quickly. You know, the parents don't want us together. This is our only option. So we jump to March 1st, 2008. And it's around 1.30 a.m. Charlie and Charles Wade go to the cafe home. And Charlie had promised Charles Wade $2,000 if he would help him kill Aaron's parents. So now remember, Charles Wade needs $2,000. for the legal fees for his custody fight over his five-month old child. So he said the magic number. Yeah, he gave him the magic number. Yeah.

And Aaron had told the boys that they would find the money inside a lockbox in the home. 18-year-old Bobby Johnson goes along with them. It's her silver-dodge neon that they're using for transportation. Now, Charlie is later going to say that Bobby had no idea. of what the plan was. She was along for the ride. She didn't know that they were going to kill Aaron's parents. This is what Charlie says.

So Charlie, Charles, and Bobby, they pick up Aaron. They drive around for about an hour thinking of a plan. And what they say later is that they even asked Aaron if she had any change of heart. But she told them there was no going back at this point. She wanted her parents to be killed. So they formulated a plan to kill the family. And this plan was that Charlie was going to kill the parents and Charles Wade was going to kill Aaron's little brothers. They wanted no witnesses left behind Gibbs.

So let's think about this for a minute. Unbelievably horrible that Aaron wants her parents dead. But she's also plotting the murder of her two younger brothers. man, that's just messed up. That's just messed up. Just to be with a boy. And that adds a whole another level to it. Yeah.

As if the first part's not bad enough. I mean, just to be with some boy that two years down the road you're going to hate. That's how it works out. If it's even, yeah. If it makes it two years. Yeah. But again, jumping into the mind of a 16 year old, she's not thinking like that. You know, she's not thinking that.

Oh, I get it. 98% of relationships at this stage in life only last eight months. Yeah. Ten months. Whatever it is. She thinks it's the, you know, happily ever after. The real deal. They're going to get married, Dwight Pickett Fence and all that.

So Aaron and Bobby stayed inside the car while Charlie and Charles Wade went inside. And Aaron had left the front door open for them on purpose. The two boys had 22 caliber pistols, but they also. brought along samurai swords, which seems to be a strange combination. Very strange. But this is what they have. Maybe they just went with what they had at their disposal. Charlie goes to the room of her parents and he just opens fire on them, firing shots

until his gun jammed. Charles Wade stepped in, was able to unjam the gun and he shot two more times. And Charlie slashed at Penny Caffy's throat with the samurai sword. He wanted to make sure that she was dead. As you can imagine, Gibbs, this gunfire pretty loud in the house, even though it's a 22, woke up the two young boys and they're calling out for their parents. But at the same time, they locked themselves in a room, which is pretty smart. It is pretty smart for a couple of young boys.

They hear gunfire. They immediately locked the door. But Charlie's able to get into the room, get the boys. and it's later going to be said that Matthew was trying to fight. So Charles Wade took his gun and shot Matthew in the face. He falls to the ground, is not moving. Charles Wade then stabbed Tyler with the samurai sword. And Charlie is later going to say that he thinks he stabbed Tyler as well.

So they have essentially entered this home, slaughtered an entire family, and their ready to leave. They grab a suitcase that belonged to Aaron and they get out to the car where Aaron and Bobby are waiting. And when they get in the car, this is what gets me, Gibbs. Aaron was described as being almost giddy when they relayed the news of what happened to her. Apparently, she said, I'm glad that's over. And that almost chills you to think she could be so callous about her entire family just being slaughtered. And then you talk about the money that they were able to get from the, from the home. It was supposed to be $2,000. Instead, what they were able to get out of the lockbox and Tyler Caffee's wallet and Penny's purse was a total of $375. Wow. So you just

annihilated an entire family for the sum of $375. And so that. So, you just annihilated an entire family for the sum of $375. and so that these two teenagers can be together without interference. When you boil it down, Gibbs, that's the whole kitten caboodle. It is. That's everything. And Charles Wade couldn't have been happy because he was promised $2,000. He's nowhere close to that, right? At $375.

Now, before they leave, they set the house on fire with lighters and it starts to burn. So the teens are driving around. and Charles Wade drops Aaron and Charlie off at his trailer, and it would later come out that Aaron and Charlie had sex that night right after her family was killed, right? So think about this. They're jubilant. I mean, they're having sex.

They're like, oh, we're free. We're finally free. Yeah, they're definitely celebrating. They're celebrating. Yeah. That's a great word. So there's only one police officer working when, a call comes in at 4.30 in the morning about the shooting at the home of the cafes.

And it's probably something we should have talked about up front, but just how small Alba, Texas is, Gibbs, because it's going to play into this story, we're talking about a population of maybe four, five, six hundred people. Really? For Texas, huh? Yeah. I mean, this is rural Texas. Yeah. The whole town is about one square mile. I mean, when you read about Alba, Texas, it says it's a town located at the intersection of Highway 69 and farm to market road. That's how the town is described. Wow.

It's basically this stoplight and, you know, the surrounding area. So this lone police officer, he heads out to the Kaffee residents to see what happened. It's dark. There's not a lot of houses in this rural area. But as he's driving to the house, he can see the glow of the fire in the distance. And when he gets there, he can tell that this house has been burning for quite a while. The roof had started to cave in already. So he calls the fire department and he goes to the home of the neighbor who had called 911.

When he gets to the home of the neighbor, Terry Caffey, is laying out on the floor of the neighbor's house. So he'd been shot five times, once in the head, twice in the shoulder, and twice in the back. This man is covered in blood. He had stumbled out of the home, falling into a creek where he almost drowned because he's in such bad shape. Yeah. Amazing. Somehow he's able to will himself up out of this creek and make it to the neighbor's home,

which is about 500 yards away. That's not close in the world that we live in or the area that we live in, right? That's five football fields away. Yeah, that's some distance, man. Do that in that type of condition. And he would tell the neighbor and the police officer that arrived that his family was dead and it was Charlie Wilkinson that had killed them. And Terry's later, you know, he's going to be able to give interviews later and he's going to talk about that night.

And it's heartbreaking. he could hear his sons crying out for him, but he just, he couldn't do anything. He had been wounded so badly. And we'll get into that a little bit later, but it's just imagine what this guy went through during the attack, but then the aftermath.

It's going to be sad. But like we said, this is a small town. It's one of the reasons why I wanted to point out how small of a town it is, is because police know exactly who everyone is, right? You don't have any anonymity in, a town that has about 500 people in it. Yeah, I mean, the, you know, the local hair salon or barbershop's going to know everything about everybody. Sure. And the police are going to know pretty much all the

residents and they know Charlie Wilkinson. And police learned pretty quickly that someone had seen Charlie's car parked outside of Charles Wade's trailer. So this is not like a huge investigative effort to figure all this out. They get some details and leads pretty quickly. They go to the trailer of Charles Wade, the police do, and they say that they're going to take Charlie in for questioning. But Charlie's going to say that he had nothing to do with what happened at the Caffee home.

So police get a search warrant and they go back to the trailer of Charles Wade to collect evidence. They're looking for anything that might tie Charlie to the crime scene. And in the living room, they find a camouflage covered purse. And inside the purse, they find a driver's license that belongs to Aaron Caffee. So they're searching this trailer. And this trailer was described as filthy Gibbs. I mean, beer cans all over the place, dirty clothes.

I mean, you got a 20 year old kid who lives there. Yeah. I mean, it's not his priority. No. Yeah. So there's just, there's things everywhere. They're searching this trailer. there's blankets on the window and at some point one of the police officers pulls the blanket off

to try to get some light into this trailer because apparently it was very dark they see some spent shell casings on the carpet and next to a mattress they find a box of ammo they find a black and white western shirt and when the police officer picks it up a used condom falls out of the shirt and onto the floor not really what you want to see or find not sure why you would put it in your damn shirt instead of the garbage can or flushing it down the toilet and then the police officer gets over to the closet and there's a blanket piled up on the floor and poking out of this blanket he sees some blonde hair and the officer says at first he thinks he's found a doll like this is just a doll that's scattered you know on the floor but eventually

he sees the eyes open and finds a girl sitting there with her back to the wall, described as almost in the fetal position. The officer asks her her name and the girl says, Aaron. And he immediately recognizes this girl as the one from the driver's license photo. So he's questioning her as well as Wade and Bobby Johnson, who are at the trailer as well. And officers inform them that the Kathy family is dead. And Charles Wade confirms to police that. that this girl they had found was Aaron Caffey.

Because she's acting like she doesn't... You don't know nothing about it? Like she can't even communicate at this point. Yeah. So they're questioning her, you know, how'd you get here? She's telling them she doesn't know. Like she doesn't even know where she is. So she's acting like she's in shock.

Yes. That plus the fact that she doesn't know how she got to the trailer. And this leads police initially to think that maybe she was kidnapped by the people that had killed her family. So she's taken to the hospital. She gets a full medical evaluation. She's acting delusional. At one point, she tells authorities that she's 14 years old, which they know she's clearly not. They have her driver's license. Right. She gives a statement that says she woke up in the house. It was filled with smoke. And she had seen two guys with swords. Now, she was described as being a little teary. I think police thought maybe crocodile tears.

because they said there really was no emotion behind it. The other thing that they could very easily tell was that she didn't have any smoke smell on her at all, which they thought was odd, right? If she had been in this house that was engulfed in flames where there was a lot of smoke, I mean, hell, Gibbs, you know, you can't cook burgers on the grill.

Who can't? Without getting that smoke smell all over you. Yeah, you're going to get it. I mean... I'm not saying you can't cook burgers on the grill. I'm just making sure, you know, I cook the, I can cook the best burger out there, man. All right.

Keep your ego in check. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm going to go too far again. I know. But you know what that's like, right? Hell, you cook up three or four hamburgers and you're like covered in grill smoke. You definitely, yeah. I mean, you try to saute an onion.

Man, though, anything in that kitchen smells like, you know, caramelized onions later that day. All right, Rachel, Ray, tamped down. Tampa down, tamped down. But so they think that's very odd because. a house on fire, all that smoke, and she doesn't even have a whiff of it on her. She still smells like dove soap. Maybe. And while she's being questioned, her grandmother comes in to tell her that her father had survived.

So that had to be startling news to Aaron Caffy at that point. That's one of those. Oh, she. Yeah, moments. Yep. So Charlie is also at the police station. They continue to grill him about what happened. and at one point they tell him that he's already been identified by Terry who survived.

And he knows he's done for. Yeah, it's it, man. Eyewitness. So he starts to tell the whole story of what happened that night. You know, how Aaron was mad that they could not see each other. She wanted her parents dead. Now, Charlie would say that he told her they should just run away. But he said, Aaron said, no, we have to kill them.

Now, that's coming from Charlie. You know, but, okay, so let's just say that's what was said. I mean, he had the chance at any given time to walk away. Oh, yeah, yeah. I think you have to take anything he says with a grain of salt. Yeah. But even if it were true, to your point, he didn't have to go through with any of this. No, he's the older one.

He should know better. Yeah, he made his decision. Charles Wade made his own decision. His was based more on money. Yeah. It seems like. So they ran some tests on Aaron. They tested her for drugs to see, you know, maybe if she had been drugged and kidnapped.

They also tested her lungs for smoke inhalation. They didn't find any of that. So they arrest Charles Wade. They also arrest Bobby Johnson. Well, she was part of the planning. And initially, Bobby stayed very quiet. She didn't want to talk to police. It wasn't until she found out that her boyfriend and,

Charlie were in custody that she started to spill. And Charles Wade would eventually confess as well after being questioned for, you know, quite a long time. And what was said Gibbs is that, and obviously this is why they question people independently because they're all adding pieces to the puzzle and they're giving little details and tidbits about what happened that night that maybe one person didn't think to say. Right. And Charles Wade added something that none of the other folks had talked about. He said when they got back into the car, Aaron had said, holy shit, that was awesome as they were driving away from the scene. Wow. Holy shit, that was awesome. A lot of thing to say about my whole family is now dead. Yeah. Because she thinks they're all dead at that point. Pretty soulless, man. Well, I think it goes to show that

there was something else. I mean, yeah, she wanted her parents dead so that she and Charlie could be together. But to revel in the fact that they were dead, that tells you something. It wasn't like she broke down and cried and was sad for them but thought it had to happen. She was gleeful that they were dead and her two younger brothers. That's the part that blows me away. Oh, same here. I just can't believe it.

She's so happy about this. And Aaron is being driven to a hospital along with her grandparents when one of the officers gets a call. And the call tells him that Aaron has now been implicated in the murders and she needs to be arrested. So she is. And of course, she denies that she had anything to do with the crime. But Aaron is underage. You know, of all the people involved in this, she's the only one that's not 18. So she's not allowed to be taken to the sheriff's office.

to be questioned. Instead, she's seen by a justice of the piece. And she tells them that she doesn't want to make a verbal statement. So she gives a written statement instead. And it basically sticks to what she has already said. There was smoke. There were men with swords. And after that, she couldn't remember anything. She doesn't know how she wound up in that trailer. But she's taken to a juvenile center and actually held on capital murder. charges. Now we know that Terry Caffey survived. The rest of his family is dead besides Aaron, who's being locked up for the crime. So he goes to stay with his sister in another town. And this guy was devastated. He lost his wife. He lost his two sons. And he finds out that his

16 year old is behind it all. The mastermind. She spearheaded, masterminded this whole thing. I mean, can you imagine? the devastation you would feel as a father? Oh, man. Yeah, I can't even imagine. Number one, that you couldn't protect your family. And I don't know how he could have in that situation. He had no chance.

But number two, the daughter that you raised turned on you, made the worst decision that somebody can make. I just would be so disappointed in her because what she did to her brothers. I've been like, okay, don't agree with any of it, me, your mom, but really your brothers, your little brothers? I don't know how you would ever get over that. I don't think he can. But Terry Caffey probably did the best that you could do.

He made a vow to live his life in honor of his wife and sons. And he travels around Gibbs, sharing the lessons that he's learned from this with other people, trying to help them, trying to help people that have dealt with other types of horrific incidents. And what's interesting about Terry to me Gibbs is he went to visit Aaron twice a week while she was sitting in this juvenile detention center. Their conversations were recorded. So there was only so much that they could talk about.

He never got to really ask her about the why because whatever she would have said would have been used against her at trial. So mostly they talked about, well, anything other than that. And every time that he left, he would tell her that he loved her. But the one thing that he did ask her was that if he and her mom had been good parents. And Aaron Caffey said that she could not have asked for a better mom and dad. Wow. It blows me away the dichotomy in this scenario, in this situation. So number one, the strength of Terry, right?

he knows that his daughter was involved in killing his wife and two sons. Right. He still goes to see her twice a week. Yeah. He still tells her that he loves her every time he leaves. And then her saying that she could not have asked for a better mom and dad. It just tells you what kind of people these were. They were supportive.

Well, it definitely tells you where his faith lies. Oh, yeah. He relied heavily on his faith. Yeah. But, I mean, I guess, you know, he looks at it as she was just so fogged over by, this fascination or whatever with this 19 year old. And Terry supported Aaron during, he was there during every one of her court appearances.

He held her hand. So I don't want to overstate it, but the strength of this guy blows me away. Yeah, yeah, man. Because you put yourself in that position and you think, could I do that? I just don't know. I mean, wow.

Like you said, you have to actually physically be in that position. to see what you would do. And nobody wants to be put in that position to find out. So all you can do is speculate. But you got to give it up to this guy. Oh, yeah. So all four were charged with three counts of capital murder. Charlie Wilkinson and Charles Wade pled guilty to avoid the death penalty.

They both received life sentences without the possibility of parole because Texas doesn't mess around. No. Bobby Johnson pled guilty to being an accomplice. who did not use a weapon. And she got 40 years. I was going to say, still pretty stiff. With a possibility of parole in 20 years.

Now, last week, we just talked about Gertrude. Yeah. And that caused a firestorm. It did, man. On social media. It really did. That was a very polarizing episode. But you think back and people couldn't believe that she got out at all.

Yeah. Now, here's Bobby Johnson, a person that didn't participate in any of it. she might have been involved in some of the conversations. And she was there in the car. And she got 40 years with the possibility of being, you know, parole at 20. Aaron pled guilty to capital murder. She was given two life sentences. And then they tacked on an additional 25 year sentence.

Just to make sure. Just to make sure. So we talked about how Terry has tried to get on with his life. But it's not been easy. He's had depression. he's been very open about the fact that he's had thoughts about ending his life and how he's had to deal with this depression. I mean, it's tough.

It's got to be tough, man, every day. Lost the love of your life, your kids, you know. I mean, he even lost Aaron, right? I mean, she's sitting in a cell somewhere. But Terry made the decision that he needed to forgive. And again, this goes back to how much he's relying on his faith. and he went so far as to ask that, you know, nobody involved get the death penalty, especially Charlie and Charles. Terry thought that Charlie did have some remorse about what he had done.

You'd hope they all have remorse, you know? You would hope. Now, after the trial and the convictions and all that, Terry was able to sit down with Aaron and talk about what had happened and the why. He couldn't do that before the trial. But after everything said and done, he could. And apparently Aaron cried. And she told Terry that she knew what was going to happen. But she also said that at certain point, she tried to leave. She told Terry that she was forced to stay in the car while her family was killed.

And I think Terry came to the conclusion right or wrong that he believed in Aaron, that she was not the mastermind. He would say, you know, that's not her. and he was able to forgive his daughter as well. I'm just not so sure about that. I'm not talking about the forgiveness part. The fact that he now believes she, although she had some involvement,

she ultimately didn't want it to happen. Terry would get remarried. He would become a stepfather to two children. And he even wrote a book about this incident called Terror by Night. You know, he focuses on ministry and speaking engagements. So I do feel like Gibbs, he's really done the best he can do to move on after this horrible tragedy. So for me, what an amazing guy.

To be able to wake up every morning still and get through life might not be the best of days, but he's still waking up and getting through the days to go through all that. It just be so damn tough. Yeah, and you know, with a new family, and obviously it's never going to replace the memory of his wife and two sons, but he has a new wife, he's now a stepdad to two kids. So you got to root for this guy. Absolutely, you do. Aaron Caffey is 26 years old and she resides in a high security prison in Gatesville, Texas,

where she's been for 10 years. And she's done some interviews over the years. You can find them out there. In a 2016 interview, she would say that, you know, this all happened because she was no longer allowed to see Charlie. She said she was shocked, angry and hurt. This was the guy that she was supposed to spend the rest of her life with. He loved me. We were going to get married. So again, this is a 26 year old. To me, Gibbs, talking as if she's back again as a 16 year old. This is how 16 year olds think, not the murder part, but the part about this is going to last forever.

Right. He loves me. We're going to get married. I'm going to get a. minivan. Just go right to a minivan? Yeah. Got to get a minivan. White picket fence. That whole thing. I mean, that's how, you know, that's how a lot of kids think.

But we know very rarely does it happen that way. You got to go through a bunch of heartache, usually, before you find the person that you're ultimately destined to end up with. There's some great stories out there about people meeting in eighth grade. I got a friend that he and his wife started dating in eighth grade and still together. still together today. But that's the exception. That's not the rule.

But when you look back on this case, there really were no signs that Aaron Caffy was going to snap someday and have her family killed. If she even talked about in that same interview that she was voted most fun loving person at youth camp. Now, there were signs that the family was struggling with her relationship with this Charlie, but no signs that this was going to happen. Nobody could have predicted.

this. She would ultimately say that it all boils down to choices. And that's 100% correct. I can't agree more with that. Oh, that's spot on. And she went on in this interview to say that, you know, her parents were great. It was just a stupid choice, a bad decision. And it was and it had horrible consequences. So we talked about her getting two life sentences and then somehow an extra 25 years. She's going to serve a minimum of 42, but she will be eligible for parole, possibly when she's around 59 years old. Her father still visits her every month. When he has been asked if he believes what Aaron has told him over the years, he said that he does for the most part. He's been quoted as saying, I honestly believe she was not the mastermind. This was a vulnerable

16-year-old girl with a controlling psychopathic guy. So that's what he truly believes in his heart, that she was manipulated by Charlie Wilkinson. And there's probably some truth to that. I was going to say, that's very viable. Yeah, that's very viable. But she still played a role. I don't think there's any doubt about that. Now, the degree of that role or, you know, the extent of how much she was the mastermind, that's open for debate. But at the end of the day, any of them could have stopped it that day. Didn't have to go through. Could have stopped it anytime.

That's true. That is very true. But there have also been people that have come out and disputed this theory that Aaron wasn't the mastermind. Remember, we said that she had talked about this with some of her friends. So there are people out there that know she had a plan. Yeah. Before this happened. Premeditated. There was also an ex-boyfriend of errands that came out and said that she had told him that she wanted her family dead.

So again, she's 16 years old. She's not very smart about that part. Right. If you are going to commit a crime or mastermind of crime, don't go around telling everybody about it. People like to talk, though, man. They do. People like to talk. But anyway, I said up front, these are some of the ones that really scare me. The, the, the, the, the, the family involved murders, for some reason, Gibbs, they, they get to me. Yeah, well, I mean, because a lot of things can relate to you. You got a 16-year-old. I think that's what it is. It's easy to put yourself in the position of these people. Yeah.

When you have kids and have gone through some of the same things that transpired in this case. Yeah, I mean, you can have those same, maybe not like on the same topic, but you have those conversations where you're saying no and they're saying, I hate you, I hate you, you don't love me, you don't let me do anything. Yeah. This is like being in prison. My 17 year old says, I just want to live my life. Yeah. And I say, yeah, we all do. Yeah. But there's some things you can do and some things you can. I still want you to clean the kitchen. Exactly. And the, you know, the taking away of the cell phone, that happens on a semi-regular basis around the Ferguson household. The cell phone, if you take the door off the hinges, man. They don't have any privacy. It kills them. But that's it. That is the case of

Aaron Michelle Caffey. Yep. Heartbreaking for a number of different reasons. You know, you think about the wife and the two young boys that lost their life. You think about Terry and what he's had to deal with even though he survived. Well, she's going to have to sit in her cell for the rest of her life thinking about her mom, her brothers, her dad, and that guy that she thought it was all so worthwhile for that probably doesn't even give a second thought to her. Yeah, and that's one thing I didn't mention she was 16 years old. If she does spend the rest of her life in jail, think about that. What a, what a waste of life? Waste, what? For her as well, right? She wasted the lives of her mother and to some degree her dad, but especially her brothers.

But her life got wasted over just a horrible decision. Just a, yeah, absolutely. All right, Gibbs, we got some voicemails. You want to light it up a little bit with that? Let's do that. Hi, my name is Bridget from New Jersey. I don't usually do this, but I want to call you guys, and like, guys know that your podcast is awesome, informative, and hilarious.

I'm a stay-at-home mom with a baby, so it's nice to get my mind out of like happy, happy joy, joy sometimes because I need some adult time. And I definitely listen to you guys with headphones. So keep doing what you're doing. You guys are awesome. And I'm both team Mike and team givey, but all love for all you guys. And Maggie, too.

Thank you. And yeah, keep it up. Thanks. Bridget and Baby from New Jersey. Didn't sound like a New Jersey accent, though. And I'm not sure yours does either, but. I'm just saying, you know. People appreciate the accents.

I know. They want to keep them coming. You got to do what you got to do. No, but very cool voice smell from Bridget. That might be our first voice smell from New Jersey. It might be, yeah. But you know what? Like what you know, you do need adult time, you know, when those kids are little.

Heck yeah. But yeah, she's doing the right thing. She's being responsible. She's throwing on the headphones to not let that baby hear some of those terrible things you say. Earmuffs, earmuffs. Hey, Mike. Hey, Gibby. It's Jessica from London in England. Just listen to your Coral Watts podcast. Brilliant. Givie, keep up the good accents. Your British one is perfectly fine. I know people that sound like that,

so don't know if I take the Mickey out. You're brilliant. Just love the chemistry you two have. It's amazing. It gets me through my day. Just wish you could produce more. But hey, I know we're all busy. Yeah, just keep up the good work. Thank you. your own time ticking. Bye. Oh, I love that. Very much so. Now, in fairness to me, I don't know that I've bagged on your British accent. I think you just bagged on my any accent. No, what I've said is a lot of your accents turn into British accents.

Yeah, unless I'm trying to do it, British accent, and then it goes... I think that's the one that you're actually halfway decent at, but your Australian accent morphs in to Paul McCartney, some of your other ones. Paul McCarthy. You sound like Paul McCartney. That's a great voicemail. Love it. Hi, Mike. Hi, Gipy.

I was calling just to say thank you guys so much for the hours of entertainment that you provide to me. Sometimes you get me through a really long day at work or a really long drive home. I live in the Cincinnati area. Whenever you guys do more local podcasts, it's just so fascinating to me. I wanted to think, kudos. Your research is amazing. If I have listened to the same podcast over and over on different killers, a true crime story, you guys always find details that the other guys missed. I don't know how you do it with jobs and kids, but you guys are amazing.

You do a great job. Keep up the good work and keep here in time-taking. All right. Awesome voicemail. She's very close to us down in Cincinnati. Yeah. You know, so, you know, I work in Westchester, which is, I call just a suburb Cincinnati really anymore, right? Yeah.

But so I have that my go-to spot for lunch, the pop belly, right? I know you like pot-belly and you like Freddy's. I like pot-belly more than anything. That's your favorite. That's my favorite. So I'll go to pot bellies and I swear, sometimes I think I sit there and I think, somebody here, wonder if they lever, anybody here listens to us. Uh-huh.

And, you know, maybe somebody does. Maybe. You know, out of those 500,000 people in Cincinnati. One person listens to your cremall. time. Yeah, maybe they're in that pot belly. Can you imagine if you were in a restaurant and you heard somebody talking about Gibby? I'd laugh. Wouldn't that be so funny? I wouldn't. I would crack up. Yeah, I'd have to like... And you took your shirt off and you jumped on the table and you did your Gibby dance. I'm Gibby. I'm Gibby. No, I wouldn't. I'd just walk out and be like, huh. That was cool.

Now, as far as the research, that is much appreciated. So yeah, we want to give Maggie kudos for assisting in the research of the episode that goes out every week. Maggie does a great job. Yeah, on true crime all the time. So Maggie does great writing and research. And then Gibby and I take that and then we add our additional research. Yeah. And then on true crime all the time on solve, we do all the research for that. But Maggie has been, just can't even imagine what a big help. And it is a big help. You know, I mean, just here recently on, even on the Unsolved, you know, Lindsay's helped out with a couple and how busy Mike and I are. Because you know that helps. But we still do our own research and we still have our own review of the cases.

So if that makes sense to you. It does make sense because I do it with you. Yeah. Hi, Mike and Givie. It's Deanna Smiley in California, aka Gibby's Beach Babe. I just wanted to stop and say hi and just how much I love you guys in your podcast, but you already know that. I also want to say hi to everyone on social media. I miss you guys and I hope everyone's doing well.

T-Cats fit, I'm still working out a lot. Anyway, just listen to Gertrude's episode and she's a sick, crazy bitch. Anyway, just wanted to say hi. Love you guys. Thank you so much for your shows and just for being. you. You guys are really just my favorite people. All right, I'll talk to you later. Have a great day and keep your own time ticking. Bye. So that's Deanna from Cali. And Deanna's been with True Crime all the time for a long time. We love Deanna. And Deanna was the one back during

Christmas time that got the T-Cat special package from an anonymous donor. I don't know if everybody remembers that. That's right. It was very cool. It was really cool. So we miss you and hope everything is going well for you. And we've heard that a lot about Gertrude. Man, she was a biotch. She was, man. That's, uh, those pictures, man, that you put out there. Well, and I didn't put the really bad ones. Yeah. There were actual pictures of Sylvia. And I just, obviously, I didn't want to put those out, but they're out there. You can find them. They're heartbreaking. Yeah. That was a, you know, of all the episodes we've done here lately, I've never seen social media turn up like it did on that one.

Yeah. I mean, my phone was just lit up for days. All right, Gibb, so that is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.