True Crime All The Time - Faye Brown

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

In 1975, 22-year-old Faye Brown and two accomplices participated in a bank robbery in a small town in North Carolina. Just 15 minutes later, one of the accomplices shot a state trooper. At trial, all three defendants were convicted of murder and sentenced to death based on state law. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the case of Faye Brown. She was a bright young girl whose life spiraled downward during high school. She began drinking and using drugs and eventually dropped. Faye Brown didn't shoot Highway Trooper Guy Thomas Davis Jr. in 1975. But she received the same sentence as the man who did. Brown's case brings up a lot of questions that have been debated over the years about the fairness of these types of laws.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 340 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always. He's my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. After that week off.

Exactly. Yeah, it was nice. You know, we went to Gallenberg for my daughter's dance competition. But it was nice to have a week off from podcasting and just spend time with the family. You look relaxed. Well, I feel recharged for the second half of the year.

So I'm ready to go. And we just got done doing our Patreon thing. We talked about, you know, our time off. But we also talked about some, some news about Suzanne Morfew. We did. Some interesting news. A little cryptic, not sure exactly what it means, but I'm sure there's more to come on that. Oh, yeah, no doubt.

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Renate Arneson. Hey, Renate. Morgan Hinky jumped out of our highest level. Thank you, Morgan. Caroline Kelly jumped out at our highest level. There's Caroline. Sybil Majer.

Mezure. Mezure. Yeah. Paula Johnson. Hey, Paula. Yassinia. What's going on, Yassinia? Brianna Haley.

Hey, Brianna. Monica Acosta jumped out at our highest level. Thank you so much, Acosta. We had Gabriella Martin Andrews. Thank you, Gabriella. Catherine. Catherine. Bonnie Jacobs.

What's up, Jacobs? Brittany Crowe-Yant. Hey, Croant. Melinda and Britt stands. Hey, Melinda and Britt. And then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Elona Holcomb. Oh, thank you, Alona. Yeah, so we appreciate the new and continued Patreon support.

We had great PayPal donations from Cyrus Frisbee. What's up, Cyrus? And Kea Misha Johnson. Oh, thank you, Kea Misha. Yeah, appreciate all of that. Gibbs right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved. we have an episode out on the Lost Cruces, Bowling Alley Massacre. This is a very interesting unsolved case,

one that you and I have been wanting to do for quite some time. So give it a listen. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I am ready. We're talking about Fay Brown. In 1975, 22-year-old Fay Brown and two accomplices participated in a bank robber in a small town in North Carolina,

just 15 minutes later, one of the accomplices shot a state trooper. But at trial, all three defendants were convicted of murder, and all three were sentenced to death based on state law. So there's some interesting facets to this case that, you know, obviously we'll dive into. Faye Beatrice Brown was born on March 18, 1953, near the town of Gairiesburg, North Carolina. her parents were Otis Brown Sr. in Catherine Edmonds Brown. In 2005, Faye did an interview for the program Women on Death Row, where she talked about her childhood in teenage years. Faye said that her parents had eight children and her father had two other children.

They were a poor family. Her dad worked at a sawmill and her mother worked at a sewing factory. The old sawmills, man. Do you ever have ever been one of those? No. Oh. Like on a tour? No.

Just to go take a tour of a sawmill? I never worked at a sawmill. So what reason would I have to just go and hang out? I've been through one in Tennessee once. It was an actual running sawmill. Mm-hmm. And what was your purpose? I just saw it on the side of road.

I just, I wanted to go and check the house. And they let you in? They were nice. Wow. Okay. I assume it's a very dangerous place. Yeah, it looked like it was dangerous. You know, just to let people walk around the sawmill.

Just dad and his sons, you know, working the family sawmill. I get it. I get it. So, you know, I kind of want to take just a minute here, though, poor family. Yeah. You know, mom and dad got jobs, but they're not making a ton of money. They have eight children of their own, and dad's got two other children from previous relationships. Okay, just the eight by itself.

that's a lot of mouths defeat. That's a whole lot of mouse. And if you're not making a ton of money, you know, most of that money is, or all of it is probably going to put in a roof over your head. Yeah. Making sure there's food on the table for eight people

and that they have some clothes to wear. I can't imagine there's probably much left over. I can't imagine that either. They said that all her parents wanted was for their children to get an education because they didn't have that opportunity. Faye was an intelligent student who enjoyed school. She earned straight A's and was the valedictorian of her junior high class. All right.

Anytime you talk about someone being the valedictorian, you're saying that person's pretty intelligent. Sure. Now, could you have a whole class full of unintelligent people? Possibly, but that's not usually how it works. You're just smarter than everybody else. But you're pretty smart. You know, I remember every year I got that award.

Every year. Yeah. You know, they don't have a valedictorian of every grade. At my school, they did. You know that, right? Yeah. They just called it the Mike Gibson Award. Exactly, yeah.

That's how it's known today. And it's still being given out today. Exactly. But I think this is something you hear, you know, quite a lot. Especially when you go back generations, parents who didn't really, you know, finish school, they placed a lot of emphasis on education. They wanted their children to get, you know, either a high school diploma at the very least or or to go on to college.

I think all parents want that, right? You always want your parents, you always want your kids to do better than you did in life, you know, even in school and then also in life and all that. It's just what you, you would like to see them do. Yeah. And I think for the most part, Every generation has done that. Now, I'm starting to hear people say that, like, my daughter's generation may be the first one that is not going to do as well as the previous generation.

Yeah. And it's kind of a scary thought. It may not play out that way. Right. But I'm hearing people say that, that there's a chance of that. Faye's parents wanted her to attend a desegregated high school. Faye said about the high school, they had clan signs up and down the highway and the kids didn't want us to sit beside them on the bus. And it was just a lot of racial tension.

Tough times. Yeah. It really was. I mean, you know, when you think about like my kids, never experienced any of this. No. Really only know of it from the history book or whatever they were taught in school or what they saw on, you know, on TV, on documentaries or whatever, it was bad. Yeah. Back in the day. It was very bad. Faye's parents wanted her to have the best education.

We talked about that. And so they felt like attending this school would be the best thing for her. But she said the school felt like a prison because there were frequent shakedowns. And I imagine there was a lot of fighting going on. Probably. If you have that much racial tension, there's going to. going to be fights. There's going to be words exchanged and that end up with, you know, fights happening. Faye started to become rebellious against her parents. She dropped out of

school after the 10th grade. She said, when I quit school, I didn't do anything, but just, you know, hang around with older people. Get high, smoke, marijuana, drink, and that's it. It's kind of sad because we just said she was the valedictorian of her junior high school. Yeah, so potential was there. The potential was definitely there. And you have to wonder, you know, was it a mistake to send her to this school? Was that what caused her to want to drop out? She called it like a prison. Obviously, she didn't enjoy it.

She wasn't happy. Well, if you don't enjoy it, you're not happy at some place. You're probably not going to tap into your total potential. Why would you? Her parents called the police and asked them to put her in jail overnight, hoping that that would scare her enough to make her change. she wasn't charged and her parents ended up you know picking her up her parents wanted her to finish school and go to college she did go back to school but dropped out again before graduation

she continued using drugs and hanging out with people who were bad influences so the little scared straight night in jail didn't work didn't work well you know certain people can really influence you in a negative way and if you feel like they are you you're your best friend, you're going along with it. It will definitely deter you from where you probably should be in life. Well, probably everybody listening has had someone who maybe wasn't that great of an influence, someone who was like, you know, hey, I got a bag, let's smoke it up, or let's ditch school or, you know, whatever, whatever it was. Sometimes those are your best friends. And sometimes those are just people that you hang out with occasionally and they get you

in trouble or whatever. In 1973, Faye met two men at a club, Frankie, Jerome Squire and Joseph Seaborne. Squire was two years older than her and Seaborne was one year, younger. Faye said that at the time of her arrest, she had known Frankie for about two years, but she didn't know Joseph that well. They would off and hang out and get high together. So obviously these two guys are going to be an integral part of the story moving forward because in August 1975, the three conspired to rob a bank, according to retired North Carolina Special Agent William Slaughter. However, Faye said there was not a plan to rob a bank. She said that on September 2nd, 1975, the two men picked her up for a ride. She had used acid the night before.

They drove around, drank some beer, and smoked marijuana. Eventually, they entered the town of Jamesville, North Carolina. Faye said she didn't know whose idea it was to enter the bank. One of the men handed her a gun. She didn't even know if it was loaded, but she put it in her purse. At 10.05 a.m., Faye Brown and Joseph Seaborne entered the Jamesville branch, of branch bank and trust company, Frankie Squire,

waded in the car. Inside the bank was manager, Betty Lou Modlin, bank teller Ruth Whitford, and a customer. Joseph Seaborne had a sought-off shotgun, and Faye had a pistol. They put on masks,

made out of stockings, pointed guns at the people inside the bank, and ordered them to lay down. So no doubt, this is a full-blown bank robbery. Sure, yeah. This isn't, even the person that walks in and tries to slide the note in.

I mean, they're going in hard and heavy right away. Yeah. Yeah. And guns out. Everybody get on the ground. Betty Lou Maudlin saw a man and a woman approaching with a gun. And she knew right away that the bank was going to be robbed.

The two approached Ruth Whitford. She said she was terrified that the woman would shoot someone. According to Ruth, the woman who was identified as Faye Brown entered a cage behind the teller window. Betty Lou Maudlin said Joseph Seaborne pointed the shotgun at her. Now, I don't know if you've ever been robbed at gunpoint. No. I've been robbed twice at gunpoint.

One time I had a gun literally to my temple. It's scary as, as you can imagine it would be. Sure, yeah. And now one time a guy tried to rob me with screw. driver when I was behind a protective cage. That didn't work out too well. But the other two times, I was not behind a cage. And I mean, I was much, much younger. Thankfully, you know, I just handed over the money. The person left. I didn't get hurt. I had to buy some new underwear. Of course. Yeah. And had some really nasty dreams for,

you know, a long time. But it's a very scary thing to have someone. point a gun at you because you don't know what is going on inside the mind of that person. Oh. Are they just using the gun for effect, right, to commit the robbery? Or is this someone who, you know, is looking to shoot somebody, looking to kill somebody? You have no idea. No, we know it happens too, right? It does.

They just want to hurt somebody. Right, because how many cases have we done where, you know, robbery occurs? they don't have to shoot the person, but they do it anyway. Yeah. So, you know, very, very scary situation. Faye said, according to her interview with women on death row, I asked her to open the drawers and I took the money out and I put it in my purse. After just a few minutes, Faye and Joseph fled the bank with Frankie Squire driving.

Faye said that she laid down in the front seat and went to sleep. Joseph Seaborne lay in the back of the car. Now, you just made a face when I said that. Oh, yeah. Because that doesn't seem right. It doesn't. Do you know how much adrenaline would be going through you if you just robbed the bank pointing guns at people? I think you'd be pumped up.

So was there something else going on that was counterbalancing that? Maybe, you know, some drugs that they had used or whatever. I don't know how you just lay down and go to sleep after something like that. I don't know either. About 15 minutes later, 10 miles away in the town of Williamston, the trio was pulled over by Highway Patrolman Guy Thomas Davis Jr. for running a red light. By this point, the police had been called and they were out searching for the bank robbers. Frankie Squire saw three police vehicles in the area. His officers drove towards the bank. The group believed that Davis stopped

them because he thought they were the bank robbers. But authorities believe Trooper Davis didn't even know that they were the bank robbers. They thought he just stopped them because they ran a red line. That's the other thing I never understand. You're on the run. I get it. You got to make a little distance. Yeah.

You get some distance. But wouldn't you think you'd want to obey every single traffic law? Yeah. I think you wouldn't want to cause any attention. No, don't be running stop signs, red lights, anything like that. I just don't understand that at all. According to Special Agent Malcolm McLeod, Trooper Davis could only see one person because we mentioned it, right?

Two of the passengers were laying down. Per court documents, Davis approached the car. Then Joseph Seaborne fired the sought-off shotgun at him from the back seat. Davis was shot in the neck. According to Windsor Mayor Bob Spivey, someone across the street heard Davis say, Good morning, a moment before he was shot. The news and observer reported that his gun was still on his holster. And I think that probably backs up the fact that he didn't think these were bank robbers.

Because if so, he probably would have had his gun out as he approached the car. If he would even approach the car at that moment. Yeah, he may have just called for backup and, and, waited, but if it's just a regular traffic citation, you don't walk up with your gun drawn unless you see something going on inside the car. Exactly. 19 year old Dan Whitehurst, a volunteer medic who was visiting his dad just 20 feet away from the crime scene. He heard a gunshot and rushed to respond. He told the producers of women on death row that Davis had a hole in his chest big enough you could

put both hands in. You know, a lot of times we talk about, you know, people using very descriptive language. So much so that, you know, you almost can't help but picture it in your mind. Grusome. Well, and you and I have talked about the damage that a shotgun does up close. And here this guy is saying the hole in his chest was so big you could, you know, put a, you could have put both your hands in. Yeah. But here's the other thing I kind of was. thinking about you're a 19 year old you hear a shot and you run towards it i don't know how many 19 year olds would do that now he was a volunteer medic maybe he had on his mind oh i can help out sure but you don't know what's going on you don't know what kind of chaos you're running into yeah exactly

it could be very dangerous for yourself so to me that's pretty brave i think so to do that yeah Davis was still alive and was taken to the Martin General Hospital, but he died about 30 minutes after the shooting from blood loss. So they have this shooting of massive manhunt involving 100 officers was organized to look for the suspects. Officers searched barns, fields, and back roads based on reported sightings. At one point, there was a report of a man breaking into a house. officers fired tear gas inside the home and it burst into flames. So there's two things on my mind here. The first is anytime you have an officer killed, the manhunt is going to be huge.

Sure. By shooting the police officer, it's the worst thing they possibly could have done. Yeah. In regards to the man hunt that's going to ensue, yeah, because obviously the police are going to come out for their own. sure they're going to want to catch these people. Not that they didn't want to catch them before, but they have even more of an incentive now at this point.

It takes it to a higher level. Yeah, it does. But then the second thing is, so they think that these suspects are in this house, and they shoot a bunch of tear gas in there and they catch the house on fire. What do you tell that person when it turns out that the suspects weren't in there?

Oops. Sorry. Our bad. Hope you got good insurance. It burned your house down. But it didn't take long to catch all three of them. About five hours later, the three were arrested in a soybean field. They abandoned their car near a cemetery and fled into the soybean field.

Bloodhounds were brought in after the vehicle was found. They were spotted after the wind from a helicopter parted the foliage. And they were driven out of the field by a vehicle. about 50 officers. The three suspects didn't offer any resistance. So probably pretty smart. Okay, we're going to hide in the soybean field. They got helicopters out.

They won't be able to see us. Yeah. But the wind from the blades. Exposed them. Exposed them, basically. Faye said in her 2005 interview that one officer hit her in the back and said, I ought to blow your damn head off. After the arrest, the police found a purse.

with the money from the bank inside. They found a pistol that was used just a few feet from the group's hiding spot. The barrel and stock of the shotgun were buried a few feet away. So, you know, really within just a matter of hours, they've captured them, they've got, you know, the murder weapon, they've got the weapons that were used in the bank robbery. After being arrested, all three made a statement about what happened during the shooting. Seaborne said in his statement that, he was in the backseat of the car.

When Davis approached, he reached for the shotgun, and as he raised it up, the gun discharged. He claimed he didn't intend to kill Officer Davis. So here's where we get into the part where we're analyzing statements made and how much sense do they make. This could happen, right? This is why you don't play around with guns. Absolutely.

You reach for a gun. Your finger gets on the trigger and it accidentally goes off. Okay. Still not going to change the fact that you killed a police officer. Does it provide some mitigating circumstances? Maybe. But what else is the guy going to say? Is he going to say?

Yeah. I raised the shotgun up. Killed him because I'm meant to kill him. Yeah. Not going to hear that come out. No, not too often. You know, like I've said before, I just think it's almost like a self-preservation.

type of thing to figure out a way to soften whatever it is that the police are asking you about when it comes to your involvement in something. Now, you could try to shift the blame completely to someone else. Oh, of course. Yeah. But if you can't do that, then it's how do you soften the role that you actually did play. Squire made a statement to an officer implicating Seaborne is the one who fired the shot. His statement did not refer to Fay Brown. directly or indirectly. Faye said in her statement that when the shot was fired, she was lying in the front seat of the car.

However, in her interview with women on death row, Faye said she was asleep and didn't remember hearing the gunshot. All right, I might have to call a little BS on that because I don't care if you're asleep. You are what? Three feet away? Four feet away from the person in the back seat who is firing a sawed off shotgun? going to be kind of hard not to hear it.

You're going to hear that. And the acoustics inside that car are going to make it even louder. So I got to be honest with you. I don't believe that. The Williamston police charged the three robbers with first degree murder. The Martin County Sheriff's Department charged them with armed robbery. FBI agents said federal bank robbery charges were pending. So I think we have to go back and talk about guy,

Thomas Davis Jr., the victim, he was 49 years old. He had been a member of the highway patrol for 28 years. He was married to Irene Scott Davis and had two sons, Tommy and Billy Davis, who at the time were college students. Trooper Davis was described as a no-nonsense yet compassionate man. According to the news and observer, one of his friends said he would arrest his grandmother, but he would be nice about it. That says a lot, right? It does. The law is more important than you, Grandma, so you're in trouble.

But you take care of you. I don't want you to hurt getting into the car. Yeah. So we were, you know, on vacation last week. And I don't know how we got on to this subject of would you turn your family member in if they killed someone. And, you know, it started out being one of the kids and, was it an accident, was it on purpose?

And it ended up with my youngest saying, I don't care who you, any of you are, what you did, what you said you did, I'm turning you all in. I just thought, yep, that's my daughter. That's my daughter. Davis was president of the Lions Club, chairman of the County Social Services Board and a deacon, a Sunday school teacher, and president of the Brotherhood. at Cashi Baptist Church. The church kept a collection of clothes for people in need.

And Davis used that collection to give to some of the people he met while he was working. So, all right. He sounds like a good guy. Yeah, it does. You know, I want to go back to the fact that this guy was 49 years old, been on the four since he was 21 years old, 28 years. Dedication. Well, and we talk about what a dangerous profession that is, right?

being a police officer, 28 years on the job. And then he's killed in this fashion. He was also president of the Windsor Tar Hill Little League. The town baseball field was named after him because of his support for Little League Baseball. Irene Davis said her husband was interested in baseball because he felt that it could help keep young people out of trouble.

And I truly believe that. I think sports does a pretty good job of that. I do too. as opposed to kids who are not into some type of organized activity. Obviously, if you're not, you've got more time to get into trouble and things like that. Yeah, the old idle time. Or idle hands. Or idle hands.

Whatever that saying was. Yeah. Either one. Yeah. So keep them busy. On September 6th, it was announced Frankie Jerome Squire had been charged with the murder of his 18-month-old son, Frederick Tyson Squire, who died on August 8th. The Roanoke Rapids Police wouldn't give any further details about the child's death.

He was also charged with armed robbery and attempted murder for an August 27th robbery at a hotel in Emporia, Virginia. So this was not a good guy even before the bank robbery. He murdered his own 18-month-old son. Yeah. POS for sure. Yeah. Joseph Seaborne was charged with armed robbery for a March 18th robbery. robbery at Horn's Motor Lodge in Weldon, North Carolina.

You know, so it does sound at least so far for these two guys, this was not their first robbery. They were well versed in, in armed robbery of different places. Right. Might have been their first bank robbery. I don't know. But like you said, they weren't rookies. They weren't green. No.

They knew what they were doing. Yeah, they had some experience in a criminal history. That's for sure. on September 11th, 1975, a judge ordered 60 days of psychiatric examination for all three defendants on October 15th, Brown, Seaborne, and Squire were arraigned in federal court. A three-count indictment charged them with robbing the bank, assaulting to employees, and killing Trooper Davis during their escape attempt. All three defendants pleaded not guilty and requested jury trials. Also on the 15th, attorneys for Faye Brown and Frankie Squire filed actions for a change of venue or special jury selection on the grounds of pretrial publicity. The court was also asked to order separate trials.

And I get both of those things. You know, you are not going to want, if you can help it, for that trial to occur in that county. No way. Nobody is going to be on your side, except maybe for your family. Yeah. If you want any hopes at a fair trial, got to be somewhere else. On October 24th, D.A. William Griffin filed a motion opposing separate trials because he said a common scheme or plan resulted in all charges against all defendants, according to the news and observer. In November, a judge ruled that all three would be tried to gather in Williamston by a jury from Choen or Edgecom counties.

The judge refused to dismiss any charges against the defendant. So he didn't move the trial, but he did agree to the selection of the jury from other county. The trial was set to begin with jury selection on January 5th, 1976 with a jury from Chowland County. And I don't know that I'm saying that correctly. I'm sure I'm not, but I'll get emails telling me how it's actually pronounced. Betty Modlin, Ruth Whitford, and Wilda Cahoon. Two employees and the customer at the bank identified Fay Brown and Joseph Seaborne as the robbers,

but said they didn't see Frankie Swire. And they wouldn't have, right? He was to getaway drive. Right. He never entered the bank. On January 13th, patrol sergeant Willie Rogers testified about how the three defendants were arrested. Rogers said that he first saw the

suspects lying in a soybean field when the wind from the helicopter parted the foliage. Sergeant Rogers testified that he was leading a team of 25 officers. They were called to the scene when bloodhounds picked up a cent at an abandoned car. The officers were on the edge of the soybean field when a state helicopter sent a radio message saying that they could see the outline of a person's body in the field. Man, those bloodhounds are amazing how they can. and do what they do. Yeah.

Their noses are amazing. That's the last thing you want to have happen, though, right? If you're a fugitive on the run is for them to bring the dogs in. Unless you know how to pull off the old chili powder trick. Oh, what is that? It's just an old trick that Cool Hand Luke showed me. Did he use that in the movie? He did.

I don't remember that from the movie. So the helicopter or people in the helicopter saw this body. The field was blocked off by officers. Sergeant Rogers gave the command. Come out with your hands up. Nothing happened. He repeated the command and then all of a sudden, Squire popped up, looked him in the eye and put his hands up. And then next, Brown and Seaborne stood up.

I think they knew. There was no getting out of this situation. You're surrounded. You got a helicopter. You got dogs breathing down your neck. You're not getting away. No. Squire's attorney asked Sergeant Rogers.

why Squire was thrown to the ground when he was handcuffed and why he was prodded with gun barrels. Roger said that he didn't know this happened. Chief medical examiner Richard Page Hudson testified that Trooper Davis died from bleeding as a result of a shotgun wound to the neck. The shot was fired from two to three feet away. Just seems so brutal. It's nasty. And we said early on that he was shot in the neck. but then you had that other guy witness say that he had a hole in his chest big enough

that you could put both hands in. Yeah, man, just when you think about that, it's gross, but when you think about inserting your hands in somebody's chest cavity. So I don't know if that was a, you know, a second shot or what, but the cause of death was this shot to the neck. Officer Roderick Bass testified that he was searching for the suspect's car when he heard a gunshot and he saw Davis lying in the street. He called the rescue squad.

The defense questioned a woman named Barbara Ann Outlaw, who had testified that she saw Davis being shot, but didn't see a gun. She and her mother said, Frankie Squire was the only person they saw in the car. But that would make sense because the other two people in the car reportedly were lying down. Right.

But you could see how the defense is, Probably going to try to play that up. Of course. They have to. How do you know my client was even in the car? This person didn't see him. On January 14th, the sawed-off shotgun allegedly used to kill Davis, was entered into evidence. The gun was identified as the weapon used in the bank robber.

Pieces of this weapon were found in the getaway car and some of them were buried in the soybean field. So I do think this is important. You know, if it's the same gun that was used in the bank robbery. Right. Well, then that gun was held by Seaborne. Can you draw the conclusion that he still had the gun and was therefore the one who fired it from the backseat of the car? Yeah, I think you can do that. Not definitively, but you certainly could sell it to the jury that way.

State Bureau of Investigation agents testified that fingerprints found on the car were made by defendants, Frankie Squire, and Joseph Seaborne. Special Agent Stephen Jones testified that he couldn't match any prince to Fay Brown. Agent Jones acknowledged under cross-examination that the latent prints were not whole. Some were not clear, but he stuck to his identification, according to the news and observer. One witness testified that about $6,100 was found in the purse and that the serial numbers on part of the money matched the money held by the bank. SBI firearm specialist Frederick Mark Hurst testified that based on test firings and an examination of Davis's shirt, he felt as though the gunshot was fired from less than two and a half feet away, but he couldn't say that the alleged murder weapon made the hole in Davis's sure. And I think we have to remember, we're talking about, you know,

175, 1976 here. So, you know, when you get into the area of fingerprint identification, not the same as it is today, right? The computer doesn't spit it out with all these different points. My assumption is somebody's looking at these manually, comparing them manually. I'm just thinking how close that gun was. Two feet. Two, two and a half feet. Yeah. So, you know, in my mind, he's laying in the car in the back seat, laying down. And as the officer walks up, he fires. So the officer's like right next to the car. Has to be. But then I go back to, you know, Faye saying that she never heard the gunshot. I just don't see how there's any way that that's possible. On January 15th, a judge ruled that pretrial statements made by the three defendants. Made by the three

defendants could be admitted as evidence. It always fascinates me, you know, the legal wranglings that go on about, you know, what should be admitted, trying to get certain things excluded. Well, obviously, if you're the defense, you want these pretrial statements excluded. Absolutely. Not going to help your client. No. The defense tried to show that Joseph Seaborne was mistreated and his statement was forced.

Seaborne testified that a hundred officers beat up on him, according to the news and observer. Okay, that's a lot. That is a lot. I mean, one officer beating up somebody is too much. Can you imagine a hundred officers taking turns? I cannot. Beating this guy up. The state showed photos of Seaborne after his arrest and presented witnesses who testified

that they saw nothing unusual about him, except that his pants were torn. Witnesses produced records that showed only 30 officers were present at the time of his arrest. Officers testified that none of the defendants were mistreated and their rights were made clear before their statements were taken. And I get that. If the defense is trying to say that, you know, there was police officer brutality against these defendants, well, then you're going to want to have officers on the stand saying, no, that's not true. this is what happened.

But at the same time, if you're an officer who beat up a suspect, are you going to admit that in open court? No. Probably not. It's not going to make you look good.

It could potentially help get, you know, one of these suspects off or out from under the charges. I'm not saying that police officers would always lie. I just look at these instances where

It's in a person's best interest, maybe to bend the truth or completely tell a different story. Yeah. And that goes for defendants. It goes for anybody who is going to look bad if they admit to something that they shouldn't have done. Two officers who interviewed Frankie Squire and Joseph Seaborne testified that the two men told them patrolman Davis was shot after he stopped their car for, running a red light in Williamston, Seaborne claimed that special agent O.L. Wads and former Williamston police chief John Swain spoke to him in the Pitt County Jail and told him they weren't leaving until they had a statement from him. So you can definitely see where things are

going, right? As this trial unfolds, yes, we made these statements, but we did so under duress. Yeah, exactly. We were being beaten. We were being forced to say these things. You know, again, tough job for the jury in trying to decipher who's telling the truth and who's not. Wise testified he was called to the jail on September 4th because Seaborne told the jailer he wanted to talk. Seaborne admitted in testimony that he met the two men at the jail entrance, which matched Wise's testimony. According to Wise, Seaborne said he borrowed a car on September 2nd and went to the Lemon Tree Inn in Weldon. He picked up two people and they traveled to Jamesville.

They looked at the branch banking and trust company, drove around Jamesville, and then went back to the bank. Seaborne went into the bank, put a stocking on his head, and used a gun to force people in the office to lie down. He left the bank, got in the vehicle, and went to Williamston. He saw three unmarked cars, none of which stopped them. After they passed through a stoplight, though, they were pulled over by a highway patrolman. Seaborne said he grabbed the gun and it fired as he picked it up. So again, nothing new. This has been pretty much the same story that he's told.

He's admitted to the bank rob. Right. then as they're trying to get away, they're pulled over. Officer Davis approaches the car. He picks up the shotgun and according to him, it accidentally goes off. I mean, it can't happen. Yeah, I said that earlier. It can happen. Guns go off when you pick them up and, you know, you don't have a safety on and you put your finger on the trigger accidentally or whatever it is. My question is, why are you picking the shotgun up in the first place. Good point. To me, it's because you're thinking about using it.

Absolutely. You're not going to sit there and just play with it. And I think if I was on the jury, you know, that would be something that would be going through my head. Okay, you're saying that it accidentally discharged. But why did you pick it up as a police officer was approaching your car? Yeah. And he's going to be in trouble either way. But obviously the gun going off by accident versus him intentionally gunning down a highway patrolman, those are two very different sentences. Oh, extremely different. So it's in his best interest to try to say that, hey, you know, I didn't mean to do this.

Yes, the gun went off. I killed him, but it was an accident. If anything, maybe get manslaughter. Something, something different than what they were, what they're ultimately going to get. Because on January 16th, 1976, all three defendants were convicted of first degree murder after five hours of deliberation. They were sentenced to be executed on February 27. But they would each receive an automatic appeal. And that never ceases to amaze me.

You know, your sentence to die, what, a little bit, little over a month after you're convicted. Yeah. Now, we know it's not going to happen. No. But they set that date so very quickly. And then the automatic appeals kick in. The defendants were convicted under North Carolina's felony murder rule, which states that if you're involved in a crime that leads to murder, you're equally as culpable as the person

who actually commits the murder. That law right there is a game changer for the people involved. Yeah, absolutely. And I know there are other states that have similar laws. And I don't know if this law in North Carolina has changed over time. And I think some people are going to agree with it. Some people are going to say, well, that's too harsh. You know, if you're with someone, you rob a bank.

Okay, that's a charge. You committed a crime. Right. But then this person that you're with that you can't control goes off and shoot somebody and kills them. Should you, who didn't kill anybody, be charged with first degree murder and get the same sentence that that person got? It's something to debate. Yeah.

Because there will be people on both sides of that argument. At the time of their trial, first degree murder automatically came with a death sentence. So you didn't pull the trigger. And not only did you get first degree murder, but you all. automatically got sentenced to death. Retired special agent William Slaughter said in his interview with women on death row, if you run with the pack, you're responsible for the kill. That's a fact of law.

And I get it. And I think many people are going to share that sentiment. I'm sure there are going to be many people who don't agree with it. Faye said in her 2005 interview, I was guilty of going in the bank. I know I was guilty of that. I was wrong for being there in the first place. Indirectly, maybe I bear some responsibility for his death, but not directly.

I never meant for anybody to be hurt. Okay, so let's analyze her statement. I actually get what she's saying. She's admitting her role in the bank robbery. She's even admitting, at least indirectly, some responsibility for this officer's death. But she's saying not directly. I didn't pull the trigger. I never meant for anyone to get hurt.

I get that. I'm not saying it's right or wrong. I'm just saying I understand the stance that she's taken where she's coming from. I think you could also make the argument that if you weren't involved in the initial criminal activity, in this instance, the bank robbery, then what follows doesn't happen? Right. You know, it's almost like that butterfly effect in a way where if you don't decide to participate in the bank robbery, then there's no getaway. You know, you may or may not be stopped by police.

In this instance, I don't even know if it was related to the bank robbery, but you're not going to be in a car with armed people. A police officer is not going to get shot. So in a way, it's almost like them saying, you put yourself in the, that position. And if it goes wrong in a deadly fashion, well, then you're going to pay the price. It was a really good point. In 1976, the Supreme Court made a decision in Woodson versus North Carolina that found the state's mandatory death penalty unconstitutional. North Carolina was the first state to have the death penalty overturned by the Supreme Court

and 120 inmates had their sentences vacated. That's a lot. lot. That is a lot. Now, we know everybody got their death sentences overturned or vacated later on. On May 10th, 1977, the death sentences for Fay Brown, Joseph Seaborne, and Frankie Squire were vacated and substituted for life in prison. At that time, a life sentence was a maximum of 80 years with credit for good behavior. I wonder how the victim's family felt about that. Yeah, I don't know. I always always wonder that because I think there are some victims, families who are not in favor of the death penalty. And so they may not have any problem with it whatsoever. They may even be happy about it. Sure. Now, during her first years in prison, Faye Brown was angry. She committed a lot of infractions.

She got caught using drugs in prison. In 1991, her mother died from cancer. Faye was quoted by the worldwide women's criminal justice network is saying, I was shaken. I stopped using drugs, started to study hard, and reflected on my actions. After a decade in prison, Faye earned her GED and her cosmetology license. She eventually earned a bachelor's degree in business from Shaw University. Faye also survived cancer twice while she was in prison. And I found that story in and of itself kind of interesting, right? Right. So, you know, she's in prison. She doesn't seem to care. She's mad. She's using drugs. She's just doing whatever, getting in trouble. Mad at the world. Mad at the world. And then her mother dies. And all of a sudden, because of that, at least according to her, she turned her life around. Yeah. Maybe it took that event for her to wake up. And for some people, it does. I think for some people, it comes with age, right? The older you get.

you slow down. You stop being so angry. Angry and, you know, you quit the drugs. You quit the alcohol. And for others, it's, you know, some type of tragedy or something. And then some people never change. They maintained a clean disciplinary record, which allowed her to be moved to a minimum custody facility and eventually earned work release. She worked full time as a teacher and hairstylist at Cheryl's School of Cosmeton. for many years. She took the bus every day.

She was eventually allowed to leave on a short furlough twice a month to visit family. I never get used to that. I never quite understand it. Yeah. I remember when we did the episode about Bernardo and Hamulka, remember when Carla Hamulka was, she was let out and she was out shopping and then she would go back to prison or something. I'm like, I never understood that.

And up there, they have a lot of halfway homes. They do. where you get out and no matter what the crime you know eventually they move you to a halfway house yeah you're living across families and i get it she's turned her life around she's not getting in trouble but she's out with a very sharp you know pair of scissors cutting people's hair but then she's got to go back to prison yeah it was said that fay was loved inside and outside prison many inmates thought of her as a motherly figure. According to Faye's friend and former bunkmate Christy Wells,

Faye helped younger inmates get involved with school programs and told them who to avoid to stay out of trouble. So it really does seem as though she turned her life around in prison. She became kind of a model inmate to the point where she was helping out some of the younger inmates. You know, you can sit there and just wallow and pity and all that and just stay angry. Yeah.

Or you can do something and do something good for yourself and maybe others. And is it going to get you out of prison sooner? Maybe. Maybe. Is it going to make you a better person? Yeah, probably. Yeah. And you feel good about yourself.

And maybe at that point, because you have purpose, you know, it will keep you going. Faye spent over 30 years in prison before she had any real hope of being released. Her sister, Ola Davis, said, according to the worldwide women's criminal justice, network, Faye should be punished for what she did. But 34 years in prison for a crime committed at the age of 22 is too long. And I think that's something that people can debate. You know, how long should you be in prison for robbing a bank? And how long should you be there when you're in the car after the bank robbery when a trooper gets shot and killed? In October 2009, a North Carolina appellate court decision held that a life sentence is an 80-year sentence for all purposes,

according to prison legal news.org. The North Carolina Supreme Court declined to review a ruling by the Court of Appeals. This ruling was made in a case by Bobby Bowden, who was convicted of two counts of first-degree murder in 1975. The decision applied to defendants convicted between 1974 in 1978. Bowden's death sentence was vacated, and he received concurrent life sentences. He became eligible for parole in 1987 and received annual reviews. In December 2005, he filed a petition for issuance of a writ of habeas corpus. Six weeks later, the trial court rejected his argument that under state law, a life sentence is considered 80 years, and with the application of sentence

reduction credits, he was entitled to be released. He appealed this decision. The court of appeals pointed to a specific statute, which requires all prisoners with a life sentence to be eligible for parole consideration after serving 20 years. So that's a big difference. You know, a life sentence is a term of 80 years, regardless, no limitations, no restrictions, no early release, versus you're going to be at least reviewed for parole after 20 years. And it was said that there were originally 20 inmates who could have qualified for release based on

this decision, including Fay Brown and Joseph Seaborne. The Department of Corrections was preparing to release these prisoners as early as October 29th, 2009, until Governor Beverly Purdue intervened. Governor Purdue vowed not to release any prisoners who would benefit from this opinion. Governor Purdue ordered prison officials to continue to hold prisoners who became eligible for release and said, according to the website, prison legal news. Like most of my fellow North Carolinians, I believe life should mean life. And even if a life sentence is defined as 80 years, getting out after only 35 is simply

unacceptable. Okay, she's pretty tough on crime. Yeah. Or at least on, uh, when it comes to sentencing. I understand it, though. I mean, if you at one point had the death sentence, and then the law changed, and now you get life. And now you want, you could go from 80 years down to a fraction of that. Well, 20. Yeah. At least you'd be reviewed at 20. I mean, is that really fair? Is it fair to the victim's family? To the, the victim. Is it fair to the prisoner? I mean, you know, you can, you know, this is one of those cases that you can look at from a number of different angles. Should she have gotten the death sins? Should she have gotten life in prison? Should she have died in prison for what she did?

Not for those for not for what those around her did, but just what she did. And then, you know, the flip side of that is exactly what you just said. You go from death to, life to potentially getting out after 20 years. Yeah. You know, what's fair, what's not fair. And the law changes so often. These opinions made by different courts, you know, kind of set the precedent for things to come later.

In 1981, the North Carolina legislature barred violent offenders sentenced after that year from earning reduction credits, but gave the secretary of the Department of of Corrections authority to award credits to prisoner's sentence before 1981. In 1983, Department of Corrections policy allowed inmates to earn a day off their sentence for each day without an incident with credits for participating in work release and taking classes. All right. So I think we have to dissect this a little bit because, you know, here, you know, when you're

talking about grandfathering in people. I don't always understand that either. I understand being convicted under one law. Right. The law that was on the books at the time. I understand that type of stuff. To me, a day for day matching credit, that's a lot. To think that for every day, you don't have an incident.

Right. That's a day off your sentence. I get it. It's an incentive for prisoners to behave. but after a year, that's a year off your sentence, right? Basically, if you don't have any issues. If you're good all the time, you're going to only do half your sentence, right? It's a good way to look at it.

With that math. But only if you were sentenced before 1981 in North Carolina. After that, you're not getting it. No. So if I get sentenced in 1982, I'm S-O-L, right? Yeah. While these other people who were sentenced earlier, they're getting all this, good time credit.

Governor Purdue argued that legislators did not intend to give this kind of authority to prison officials. On October 23, 2009, Faye Brown filed a petition for rid of habeas corpus. The court held a hearing on the petition on December 11th, 2009. On December 14th, the General Court of Justice Superior Court Division concluded that, as a matter of law, that petitioner has served the entirety of that life sentence as imposed in the Superior Court of Martin County, as defined and mandated by the North Carolina General Assembly, and is credited pursuant

to the North Carolina Department of Corrections, Own Regulations, Policy, and Procedure. Based on the foregoing, it is hereby ordered that the petition for habeas corpus filed by Faby Brown is allowed. It's further ordered that petitioner, Faye Brown is to be released unconditionally from the North Carolina Department of Correction no later than 5 p.m. today, December 14th, 2009. So she wins her petition and she's ordered to be released. Yeah, but look how quickly it happened. I mean, I know she's been in prison for a very long time, but that same day, she has to be released by 5 p.m. However, Faye was ordered to stay in prison

that same day, according to the news and observer. On February 16th, 2010, the North Carolina Supreme Court heard arguments in an appeal by inmates Faye Brown and Alfred Jones, whose habeas petitions had been granted by the Superior Court in December 2009. They had argued that because their life sentences were considered 80-year sentences,

they should be released from prison with sentence reduction credits. And I think that goes back. back to your point, right? If a life sentence is 80 years, and I've been in there for 40, yeah, and I have, let's say, 40 years of reduction credits, let me out. Yeah, I did my part. You do your part.

Their attorney, Jane Allen, said, as quoted by prison legal news, we are a nation of laws, not arbitrariness, tyranny or whims. No one, not the Department of Corrections, not the attorney general. can simply choose to treat the law as if it's nothing more than a series of items on the buffet line at the Golden Corral. And I don't know why that cracks me up. Yeah. My grandparents, they love the Golden Corral.

I was not a fan. Me neither. I'm not putting it down because I know it still exists, but I don't like restaurants who serve 8,000 things, but none of it's great. Yeah. I'd rather go to a restaurant who only has like, 15 things, but it's all good. I always had the issue with how open it is to anybody.

People sneezing, kids touching. Kids are always up going touching, you know? Yeah, you just put your finger in your nose. Yeah. Like, that's what they did, which is, that would probably be best case scenario if that's all they did. But I also get what this attorney is saying, because, you know, it does seem as though in a lot of cases that we do, people want to pick and choose how to apply the law or how to circumvent

the law or I don't know. I feel like that sometimes. Yeah. The AG's office argued that the state never intended to provide sentence reduction credits to prisoners with life sentences. These credits were only for security level and parole eligibility. Well, when you write a lot of, these laws, when you write these changes, you really need to think deep, right? You really need to go deep and wide and think, okay, how's it going to impact these different scenarios? Because clearly, different scenarios are going to come down the pike. Well, I also think it's tough to come back later and argue that, well, we never really intended it for it to be used in this scenario. So to your point, did you not think that this scenario was going to come up?

On August 27, 2010, the Supreme Court of North Carolina reversed the trial court's order, allowing Fay Brown's petition for rid of habeas corpus and ordering her unconditional release from prison. On that day, Faye changed clothes, laid in bed, read a book and cried, according to her former roommate, Christy Wells. And I think I would cry too. You know, she thought she was getting out. Yeah, I thought this was it. Because the court said she was getting out. And here a year later, now she's still in prison and now she's being told, no, you're not getting out. In 2015, Faye applied for parole again. Several family members wrote letters supporting her. Her sister, Ola Davis, wrote, according to Indie Week, Faye has changed from that teenager she was.

I really feel bad for the family of the state trooper that was killed. But Faye didn't not kill him. Our family is hurting too. In May 2020, North Carolina announced that an unnamed inmate was the first to die from a COVID outbreak at the North Carolina Women's Prison. This inmate was 67-year-old Fay Brown, who died on May 6th. At the start of the pandemic, the ACLU and other organizations advocated for the release of older or medically vulnerable inmates who were no longer considered dangerous, but Faye Brown was not granted release. Frankie Squire died in prison in 2001. Joseph Seaborne is currently 69 years old and still incarcerated.

His projected release date is in 2005. Oh, that's 80 years. Yeah. From 1975 to 2050 is 80 years. It's a long way to go. And really, if you think about it, None of these three people were innocent. But if you're assigning blame on a scale, obviously the majority of it has to go to Joseph Sebel.

Yes, for sure. Because he was holding the gun that killed this state trooper. Yeah. Whether he intentionally pulled the trigger or it accidentally. Air quote, accidentally went off. He's the one who, you know, fired the shot that. that killed Davis, Fay Brown spent two-thirds of her life in prison. And I think why I found this case so fascinating Gibbs was that, you know, it's a case that sparks conversation about sentencing

laws in the United States. And there are a lot of questions. I think that arise as a result of this case and others like it. You know, was it fair that Fay Brown and Frankie Squire were sentenced for first-degree murder. When they didn't pull the trigger, they didn't fire the gun that killed Trooper Guy Thomas Davis, Jr. And was it fair that despite being a model inmate for many years, she was never granted parole? I think those are all valid questions. But like I always say, you're going to have differing opinions on what the answers to those

questions are. Sometimes those opinions will change, right? I think if you asked me in the late 70s. When you were 25? Yeah. My answer would probably be different than it is today. Oh, yeah, I see what you're saying.

I think people's opinions change at different points in their lives. Yes. But I also think the opinions on someone like Fay Brown probably change throughout her life. Yeah. You know, because in the beginning, she's angry. she's still doing drugs she's getting in trouble so are people going to be clamoring for her to get out on parole probably not no but 30 years in she's a model citizen she's helping young people she's doing these good things you can see how someone's opinion would switch right

towards you know possibly letting her out now the opinion on whether or not the two should have been charged the same as Joseph Seaborne, does that change? I don't know if it changes as much. I just think you're going to be in one camp or the other. Yeah. And I think for me, it's hard to make it so across the board because each circumstance, you know, has its own nuances to it. Right. But to say that if you commit a crime and then someone gets killed at some point, it wasn't even during the crime, right? It was after that you're just as guilty for that murder as everyone else. I think my opinion is going to change depending on the circumstances. You know, if it happens inside the bank, Faye's holding a gun, Joseph is holding a gun. Joseph is holding a gun.

and he kills somebody. I'm probably going to think a little bit differently than if it happens the way this one happened later on and she's not holding a gun on anybody and Joseph kills this trooper. There are some different scenarios that you can, that you can think of. But I wouldn't fault those people who say, no, I don't care. If you commit a crime and somebody ends up dead, you're just as guilty as the next person. I think those are the types of things that people have to figure out for themselves where they,

where they lean. But I did think it was so odd that, you know, Fay Brown was fighting all these years to get out. Right. And then she ultimately dies during the first COVID outbreak at this one, at this North Carolina women's prison. COVID got her. But that's it for our episode on Fay Brown. We've got some voicemails. You want to check those out?

Yeah, see them. I was listening to the podcast. I don't even know which episode. That's not relevant to this thing that I'm about to say. I just noticed I've probably done it for over 300 episodes, but I realize now that every time you're ending the podcast and you say, Stay safe and keep your own time ticket. I say it right along with you.

Surely I'm not the only freak that does that. Love y'all. Bye. First of all, don't call me Shirley. Absolutely. And secondly, I'm sure you're not the only one that does that. I think for people tell me at CrimeCon, they do that. Yeah.

Yeah. Some do the intro. Why not? What else you got to do? Do it. Doesn't hurt anybody. Howdy guys? It's Care from Texas.

I hope you guys had a great week off. I just wanted to just take a minute to wish you both a very happy birthday. Thank you really for all the last, all the respects that you give to the victim. You make it so easy to hate these criminals and the information that you share, especially all of the gibbiasms. You guys are truly a good-to-ups-crime fan. So keep up for great work and keep your own time taken. Bye.

Awesome. I'm just glad to be the same age as Mike now. I know. It's nice. I almost said it when she said it. Stay safe and keep you. You did? Yeah. Almost said it with her. You did. No, we did have a good week off. It was nice. Hey, guys. This is Erica, driving across country still. And I was just finished the William at the studio podcast. And Mike was talking about how he would notice if somebody dug into his yard or something.

I was just thinking that maybe with every body that they put back there, maybe they put in a raised garden bed, so then you wouldn't know what's underneath at all. You would just think, as they just like put the stuff around that, then, yeah, you wouldn't know. But that was it. Thank you. Keep your own time thinking.

The Erica's got a lot of time on her hands thinking when she's driving. I would know because the first time I saw one. the first one. Yeah. Then I would have my simply safe outdoor camera trained on that area. Yeah. I want to go back and see the footage. See what's being transported.

You'd want to know. I would want to know. We had some mailbag. Carrie Bynlich sent us some fanny packs, which we wore during our Patreon episode. You still have yours on, yep. Filled with jerky and Twizzlers. So that was awesome. Betty Steele sent a lifetime supply of Twizzlers.

that you'll be taking home with you. Absolutely. And then it's Roxy or Rosie. I'm not sure. I couldn't read the writing. Send a crime book and some really cool snacks from Singapore. Awesome. A lot of them have egg in them.

So I don't know. I'm going to make my girls try them first. There you go. But we appreciate everything that people send in. All right, buddy, that's it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and give me. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.