True Crime All The Time - Gregory Fester and Jessica Reid

Episode Date: April 19, 2021

Gregory Fester and Jessica Reid were 19-years-old and 17-years-old, respectively, when they went on a drug-fueled crime spree in 2006. The couple left their home in Wisconsin determined to make it to a beach somewhere and they were willing to do anything they had to in order to get what they wanted. This including picking the home of Wayne and Sharmon Stock at random, and killing the couple the day after Easter.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the crime spree and murders committed by Fester and Reid. They were determined to rob and kill if they had to in order to get what they wanted. The Stocks were pillars of their small community and their murders shocked everyone. Several families were looked at by police and two individuals were convicted of murder before police found the true killers.You can support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationCheck out our sponsor Ana Luisa for great quality jewelry for Mother's Day starting at just $39. Use our code TCATTMD to get 15% off all of their great products.https://www.analuisa.com/tcattmdAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 229 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. Give me what's going on with you. Hey man. I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing well. Yeah. I'm hanging in there. That's good. I'm glad you're hanging in. What else can you do, man? That's right there. Hang in, hang on, hang out. There's some kind of hanging going on. There's always something hanging. Something's hanging. Yeah. So let's get right into our shoutouts or donations for Patreon. We had Jessica Shelton jumped out at our highest level. Hey, Jessica.

Melly and Hudson jumped out of our highest level. Well, appreciate that, Melly and Hudson. Beverly. Michelle Caddick. What's going on, Caddick? Kip M. Hey, Kip. Robin Droppa.

Well, thank you, Droppa. Lynn Higgenberg. Well, like a little Hildenberg. Harley Newell. Hey, Harley. Skippity B, Bob. What's it going on, Skippity? Sorry, I'm laughing.

It was Hilder. And you said Hildenburg. I messed things up. No, it's fine. Patricia Babylon jumped out at our highest level. What's it going on, Babylon? Michelle Meese jumped out at our highest level. Hey, Michelle.

Kimberly Brown jumped out of our highest level. Man, thank you, Kimberly. Yeah, we had Terry Nimmins. What's going on, Terry? Pearly Rose. Hey, pearly. Chintel Spencer jumped out of our highest level. I like that, Chantel.

As did Edward Smith. Man, thanks, Edward. Cameron jumped higher than our highest level. Wow, thanks, Cameron. Dallas, 1986. Well, thanks, Dallas. Is that like a wine, 1986? It's got to be a good year by now.

Yeah, or maybe the year that a person graduated. Sometimes they'll put that in their name. Maybe it was the Dallas episode, 1986. Remember the show Dallas? That's probably around the same time. I don't know what year that was. Wendy De Novo jumped out at our highest level. What's going on, De Novo?

Kitty, Yenone. Hey, Yenone. And last but not least, Sarah Fraga. Hey, Frega. And then if we go back into the vault, Gibbs, this week we selected our good friend Allison Thompson. Yeah, hey Allison. Always see Allison at CrimeCon. We hang out.

We have a couple of drinks. She's a blast. She's been a supporter of the show for a very long time. We had some great PayPal donations as well, Dana McKee. Hey, Dana. Christy Heinz. What's going on? Christy, how's the pretenders doing?

Exactly. Dana Kelly. Hey, Dana. And Alicia Wibu jumped out with a. a really hefty donation. Why boo? Yeah. Why boo?

That's what I'm going with. Hey, boo boo. Gibbs right now on true crime all the time unsolved. We're talking about a couple of Australian cases that some people believe are connected. The 1993 disappearance of Nancy Grunwald and the 1995 murder of Victoria Kaffaso. So there's a lot of interesting aspects to each of these cases. and obviously we'll go through all the details. It's a good episode.

Make sure you check that out. Yeah. All right, buddy, we have all that out of the way. Are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I'm already. We're talking about Gregory Fester and Jessica Reed, two troubled teens who went on a crime spree fueled by drugs and I think they were looking for adrenaline. but it ended in the murders of two innocent people, Wayne and Sharman stock.

Gregory and Jessica broke into their home with the intent to steal and they killed Wayne and Charmin when they found them sleeping upstairs. But the path to solve this case was far from simple. It led to a couple of wrongful convictions, which you and I always like to talk about and get into the details of those. It also exposed some corruption within the police department. And last but certainly not least, it shattered an entire family. It's got a little bit of everything.

It does. Jessica Reed was an honor roll student up until about the age of 13. That's when her mom and stepdad separated. For the next couple of years, Jessica attended two different schools until she dropped out in the 10th grade. Well, that's tough on kids. It's very tough. I think there's no doubt about that. It's tough on all kids. I think it hits some kids much, much harder than others. Yeah. It also depends on the age. Sure. You know, I've talked about it before. My parents are divorced. They got divorced when I was maybe six years old about that time frame. It wasn't easy. But,

when it first happened, I was kind of probably a little too young to really fully understand everything that was going on. But it has to be difficult because not only dealing with the family separating, but also the fact that you're leaving your good friends behind, going to another school, leaving them behind, going to another school again, it's hard to make, it's hard to, you know, make friends. There's no doubt that Jessica had a tough time around, you know, of this period in her life, she began using drugs and she started running away from home and stayed away for long periods of time. In 2004, she was on juvenile probation for theft. Wisconsin Social Services put her in Jubey twice for parole violations between June of 2005 and February 2006. She was arrested

six times for violating the juvenile intensive sanctions program. She stole damaged property. She got caught possessing drug paraphernalia. Her caseworker said that she was dishonest with authority figures. So, you know, this is not a ton of background. We're not going all the way back to, you know, birth with these two individuals. in 2006, Jessica was 17 years old. She was dating a guy named Gregory Fester,

and they were living together in Horicon, Wisconsin. Now, Gregory was 19 at this point, and he had a two-year-old child with another woman. Gregory had a long history of drug use, including alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, heroin, even said that he was, into cough syrup. Just chugging some cough syrup now and then.

And I know there are people that do that. You know, I think if you drink enough of it, you can get a high. I don't like cough syrup personally. So I'm sipping on NyQuil right now. Oh, and gin and juice,

but which is not a good combination. No, but makes for a good song lyric. It does. But I think the key thing here with Gregory is he too had a lengthy criminal record, including trespassing, shoplifting, disorderly conduct.

He would break into cars and steal things out of them. He damaged property. And he had a sexual assault on his record. I mean, all that's bad. Sure. But you had that sexual assault there towards the end and just, you know, you can see where he's headed down a really, really bad road. I agree with you.

All of it's bad. But you have to take that sexual assault, don't you? And kind of move it up into a different category. You shouldn't be trespassing. You shouldn't be breaking into people's cars. You shouldn't be stealing. But as wrong as those things are, I view them in a much different light than committing a sexual assault against another person. Gregory had also been to a psychiatric hospital and received treatment at several points in his life or what was described as severe mental health issues.

So this brings this up. to April of 2006. Like I mentioned, they were living together. On April 15th of that year, Jessica and Gregory left Wisconsin. And their whole intent was to head to a beach somewhere and along the way, get high, steal, commit whatever crimes they had to until they got to their destination. They stole and abandoned two vehicles in Wisconsin. They took money, a 12-gauge shotgun, ammo, and a truck from one home in Wisconsin. They drove the truck to Iowa and planned to rob houses on their way to Arizona. Well, they did because they broke into two homes in Iowa. Yeah, and they made off with a 410 shotgun, some more ammunition, and $300 in cash. So it's pretty

easy to see when you kind of analyze what they're stealing. First of all, money. Obviously, that's going to help fund your kind of life on the run. Their joy ride. Their joy ride, their trip to whatever the final destination is going to be. But then number two, a lot of weapons and ammunition. Well, okay, what's that for? Yeah. I mean, I think you're really looking at some intent there if that's a big part of what you're stealing when you're vandalizing these houses. They eventually abandoned the truck in Louisiana and stole a fourth vehicle. Gregory drove this car to Nebraska. So they're kind of all over the map. And they really are. Wisconsin to Louisiana. That's a hall. Yeah, it is. And then you're turning around and kind of going back the other way, a little farther west to Nebraska. And it was in the early

morning hours of April 17th, 2006, that they randomly chose to burglarize a home in Murdoch, Nebraska. And this was the home of the stocks. The stocks lived in a very rural area. And Gregory and Jessica thought no one was home. So Gregory entered through a window and he opened the door for Jessica, he was carrying the 12-gauge shotgun and she was carrying the 4-10. Have you ever shot either a 12-gauge or a 4-10? 12-gauge. Yeah. I own a 12-gauge.

I've actually never shot a 4-10. It's a smaller round, a little easier to manage. According to Jessica, they didn't stay for very long on the first floor and they chose to go upstairs because they heard some snoring. coming from a bedroom upstairs on the second floor, Jessica took off her coat to minimize noise and followed Gregory upstairs. What followed varies based on who is telling the story. And how many times gives in an episode do we talk about this?

We talk about it a lot. Whenever you have two people who are involved in a crime or a series of crimes, okay once they're caught what comes out is either they're both telling the same story or each party is making themselves look just a little bit better than the other sure yeah in some cases a whole lot better than the other is right by telling the version of events that they want police to believe they might be embellishing a little bit i think that happens quite a bit I think it makes it tough. I mean, obviously you have the evidence and you're going to follow that and try to match it.

But when you're just trying to analyze the story of two different people, okay, who did what? Who was involved? Are both people trying to minimize their involvement in what is ultimately going to be the very bad thing that happens? And shift the blame to the other person. I think that's why police like for someone to speak up first and say, hey, this is exactly what happened as long as they get immunity. Yeah, because, you know, by giving them immunity, you're thinking that they're going to tell the truth. Yeah, they have nothing to hide at that point. The immunity is kind of based on them telling the truth and none of what they say can be held against them.

Yeah. Jessica says that Gregory turned on the bedroom light, then came back into the hallway and asked her, what he should do. She told him, we'll do something. So Gregory entered the room and he shot Wayne stock in the leg. Okay. I'm not sure what that's designed to do. My thought Gibbs is that most people, number one, you kind of get woken up in your own home by an intruder. That's startling. Number two, you're shot in the leg. Yeah. And there's pain. There's shock. But a lot of people are going to spring in to action. You know, a shot to the leg is not going to completely immobilize everyone. I could shoot you in your leg right now. You're still going to come after me.

Sure, my adrenaline is going to be pumped. And you're going to get to me and bad things are going to ensue. Absolutely. I actually remember having a conversation with a coworker of mine and yours because we worked together at the time. And we were talking about self-defense and actually, you know, carrying a gun. And this woman asked me, why don't more people shoot their attackers or attacker in the leg? Or why don't they just wound them? Right. And I said, well, you know, when you're wounded, doesn't mean you can't pull out your gun. Yeah. And fire. And I think that's the answer. Not that people are going around looking to kill people. I'm not saying that. But if your life is truly in danger. Shooting someone in their pinky toe is not going to slow them down to the degree or

incapacitate them to the degree that you need it to happen. Yeah. Because what ended up happening is Wayne got up and began fighting with Gregory for the gun and it was Jessica who shot Wayne in his right eye with her gun. Okay. You take a 410 shell. to the eye, that's not something I want to think about, or any shotgun shell or any bullet, for that matter, to the eye. Jessica would later say that during the fight, Wayne looked her directly in her eyes as she pulled the trigger. Now, she doesn't know if this shot killed him or not, but Wayne fell to the floor and then Gregory shot him in the back of the head. And there's no doubt, right, a 12-gauge blast to the back of the head at essentially contact range is going to kill somebody.

This killed Wayne if the shot to the eye didn't already do it. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Gregory then turned and shot Wayne's wife, Sharman, in the face. And she screamed. And it's not known if Sharman died instantly, but this shot was fatal. It did ultimately kill her. just not exactly sure how long it took.

Now, there's another version to the story that I believe comes from Gregory. It involves Gregory and Wayne fighting, and he says that he shot Wayne in the knee. Gregory says that he told Jessica to do something. And that's when Jessica shot Wayne in the eye. And this happened in the hallway versus the bedroom, the way that Jessica told it. Yeah. And then Gregory says he went back into the bedroom. shot Charmin in the face. So, I mean, are they all that different?

No. I mean, the same people are shooting the same victims, but maybe the intent or who is egging it on or who is driving it. Right. Is a little different. In 2010, Jessica did an interview with Dateline. And she told them that what she swore at the time was the real. truth. She said she and Gregory had been driving for several days, breaking into homes and stealing.

They were high on cough syrup that night. So you break into a home, Gibbs. Most people don't have heroin, meth, fentanyl, you know, all of these different types of drugs in their home. I know I don't. Yeah. But I have cough syrup and almost everybody does. You did have cough syrup. I did until you drank it all. Exactly. And I wondered why. I think I know now. But almost everybody probably has at least one bottle of cough syrup in their medicine cabinet or up in a shelf.

Especially for you and I, we talk a lot. We do. Or I talk a lot. Yeah, you do more than I do. So there are times when I do need some cough syrup to get through a recording. We always have cough syrup for the kids. You know, they're always getting sick. So that's probably what they were finding.

and they chose to get high on cops. She said they randomly chose a road and Greg told her to stop driving. This is when they ended up at the Stockholm. They broke in, they went upstairs. She said Greg turned on a light and they saw the couple in the room. She told Greg, come on, let's do something. Now, she says that she was indicating that they should leave. But Greg entered the bedroom.

Jessica said she was so scared that somehow her gun went off. But she didn't realize that the shot she fired had hit Wayne. I think the big thing is she contends that Greg killed both Wayne and Sharma. So her story changed a little bit from the first time she told it. Yes. Now, we're, you know, we're a few years later. And obviously we haven't even got to the part where they're caught. But I feel like you have to talk about it now because you,

You've got first story, right, which is after you're caught. And then you've had time to reflect and date line comes calling. They want to do an interview with you. Okay. You're sitting around. You got plenty of time. Yeah. To think about how this go down or how do I want to say it went down.

Yeah. Now, can somebody get scared and accidentally pull the trigger? Absolutely. Guns are dangerous. I mean, there's nobody on the planet that. that should not understand that. Yeah. Could it be that you would be holding a gun and it went off and you didn't realize that you

hit somebody in the face? That one for me is a little tougher. The lights are on, even in her story, right? Greg turned on the light. Right. There's no doubt that you're going to know the gun went off.

Anybody who has ever fired a shotgun, it's not like you sit there and wonder, oh, did it go off? Yeah, you know. You know that it, that it went off. even a 4-10 is going to give you a kick. And I can't imagine that you would hit somebody in the eye with a shotgun blast and not realize it.

I really struggle with that. You know, you and I do these stories and we talk about what's logical, what makes sense. And that's kind of how I view a lot of these stories. Some things to me, they're just not logical. They don't fit. They don't. And I'm sure Wayne screamed or made some type of noise when he got hit. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, who would get shot in the eye and not wail out? Yeah. In pain, unless that shot was fatal. That's the only way you're not screaming out in pain. She said that after that, they both fled the scene in their stolen car. And they went back to Wisconsin. So, you know, you can look at the varying stories.

you can dissect them. But to me, Gibbs, the bottom line is that Gregory and Jessica murdered two innocent strangers. You can debate who pulled the trigger on which shot. But they were together. They broke into a house. And two innocent people lost their lives. That's bottom line. All right, Gibbs, let's take a minute to talk about Anna Louisa.

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A-N-A-L-U-I-S-A-S-A-T-Cat-M-D. Treat yourself and treat your loved ones and use our code T-Cat-M-D to get 15% off. This is a great brand making beautiful, sustainable jewelry. The Stock's hometown of Murdoch, Nebraska, is a very rural town, about an hour south of Omaha. The Stock family had lived there for generations. Wayne was 58 years old and Sherman was 55 when they were murdered. The stocks had three children, Tammy, Andy, and Steve. They also had one grandchild.

And Gibbs, these were loving parents, generous. You know, they were described as the type of people. If you needed something, they were going to be there for you. They never missed their children's sports games. Wayne would even stop working early. just to make sure that he made it to a ballgame on time. It says a lot about him. Well, it does because Wayne ran a very successful business called Stock Hay Company.

He owned a thousand acres of farmland and several rental properties. He was doing very well for himself. A thousand acres. You and I would both like to have a thousand acres. We would, yeah. And a mule. Yeah, two mules. Yeah, you think.

you need two mules? Yeah, probably. Yeah. Charman worked as a teacher's aide for 17 years. And after she retired, she started the business where she made custom cakes. They were both church youth leaders and members of the school board. Very active in the community. They were and they were very well liked.

They were very well respected. I really don't think you can say enough about the caliber. of people that we're talking about here in the stock. Yes, I agree. Both individually and as a couple, as a team, as a mother and father, they were just very, very hardworking, genuine people. Salt of the Earth. I like that.

Yeah. Easter 2006 was Wayne and Sharman's last day alive. Unfortunately, their son, Andy, missed the, the Easter celebration. He had some things to do, but he did leave his new puppy with his parents that day. And he asked him if they wanted him to come pick up the dog. They said they'd watch it overnight and he could come get it Monday morning. But Andy managed to get back to the house later that evening to pick up his dog.

He spoke to his parents about Easter, gave them a hug and went home. This was the last time he ever spoke to them. Also the last time he ever saw them alive. The morning of April 17th, the next day, Andy drove to the farm to start work. He arrived in the shop and saw his dad's truck. And Gibbs, I think he thought it was strange that his dad hadn't taken the truck out for work. But he thought, okay, maybe he took Sharman's car instead. But then Andy saw his mom's car in the garage.

He picked up the phone in the house and there was no dial tone. I think right then and there, he knew something was wrong and he decided to go upstairs. As he made his way up, he saw blood on the walls. He turned the corner and he saw his dad's body laying on the floor. I think it was kind of partially in the hallway, partially in the bedroom. Andy never made it inside the bedroom to see the entire scene. He later said that he just couldn't make himself do it. He knew Gibbs, I think deep down.

He knew that it was a scene that he just, he couldn't see. Can't blame him. He turned around, went to get his cell phone that was in his truck, and he called 911. And he waited outside for the first responders on police. When the police arrived, they found Wayne's body, kind of in the hallway. But like I said, I think it was partially in the hallway, partially in the bedroom. they found Sharman in the bedroom. She had the phone in her hand.

Oh man. She was trying to call somebody for help. She was. But she never got to make that call. Wayne had two gunshot wounds and Sherman had been shot in the face. While he waited, Andy called his wife Cass, who was working with Andy's sister Tammy. His wife answered. And she later said that she couldn't even recognize Andy,

voice over the phone. Cass told Tammy that something happened in the house and Wayne was laying in a pool of blood. Oh man. You imagine hearing that? I can't imagine either one. Yeah. You know, as a son entering your parents home and just finding them or knowing that they're no longer alive, even if you don't actually see it, devastating. And then to get a call on the phone and be notified, about such a horrific tragedy. Right. That occurred to your parents. These people that everyone liked.

Yeah. There's nobody that, as far as I could tell, had bad blood with them. They were genuine, like you said, soul to the earth people. Yeah. And you find out that they've been murdered. Now, at first, I think Cass and Tammy thought that Wayne had an accident, right? Okay, there's blood, but he's not dead. he's had some type of accident.

They'll get him to the hospital. He'll be okay. They called Andy back at 11 a.m. He didn't answer the phone. And it was a few minutes later that a minister called them and told them the news. They needed to get to the house because Wayne and Sharman had been murdered. Well, it won't take long for this to spread throughout the community. No, like I said, small community, that type of news is going to travel.

very quickly. And once everybody hears that news, they're all going to be shot. You know, Gibbs, you and I have talked about it before. You live in a big city, even a medium-sized city. And you see on the news or your neighbor tells you that there was a murder over here. Yeah. Okay. I mean, you're not happy about it. No. But are you shocked beyond belief? Probably not. I mean, we, we do get used to hearing things like that. Sometimes we get a little bit desensitized. It's not a great thing. But when you're in that type of very small, tight-knit community where everybody knows each other.

Yeah. You know the stocks. And you got to remember the stocks were loved by everybody. Yeah. Yeah. So you are going to be shocked when you find out that this couple has been murdered because, you know, who they are. You see them in the town square or at the local feed store, whatever it is. It's not the same as hearing on the news that someone across town was murdered.

Oh, you're right. It can't be the same reaction. It's at a personal level. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's personal, right? When you're in a small town like this because of the connections that you've made with these people over the years. So you have basically an entire community in shock, in pain. They're grieving. Andy Stock was initially a suspect. The police took him in for questioning and they made him take a gunshot residue test. I think initially they theorized that he had motive because he was the designated heir to stock hay. We mentioned it. Wayne had done very well for himself. Yeah, very successful company. Yep. Had built up this business. Okay. Well, when you're talking about a lot of money,

there's always a chance that that could become a motive. We know that. But Andy didn't have any gunshot residue on him. And eventually he was cleared as a suspect. Crime scene investigator David Kofod led the investigation. There was quite a bit of evidence left at the house. The problem is there had been a bunch of guests at the house for Easter. So you had a lot of shoe prints in the grass, right? People are walking around. There was probably an Easter egg hunt. I don't know that for certain. But there was one unique print in the mud near the front door. CoFode also found a marijuana pipe in the driveway and a flashlight about 10 feet away from that. And there were shotgun shells throughout the house. A newspaper carrier called in to report

that they saw something that evening. So apparently this guy and his girlfriend were driving in the middle of the night and saw an unfamiliar car parked outside of the local cemetery. This guy said he later saw the same car past them on the road when they were driving back and the car was going about 60 or 70 miles per hour in a rush to get somewhere you know who makes a really good witness in a small town newspaper delivery people they do because usually at the times that they're working when people are out there's not a lot of cars kind of remember stuff so we talked about Andy Stock being clear, right? Police thought, okay, he could have had a motive and he could have.

And I think that's what they really struggled with. Police just could not figure out the motive for the stock murders because no wallets were stolen. The safe wasn't opened. The state profiler suggested the crime was committed by two young men who knew the victims and it was motivated by revenge. And this was based on the execution style of the shootings. Well, they probably had somebody that fit that profile then.

Yeah, I think fairly quickly, they focused in on a man named Matt Livers, Wayne and Sharman's nephew, because they thought he fit this profile. Now, while all this was going on, Greg and Jessica were arrested in Wisconsin late in April for car theft. Of course, Wisconsin police had no clue about the murders, and it was right after they got arrested for car theft in Wisconsin that two men, Matthew Livers and Nicholas Sampson, were arrested. I mentioned it, right? Matthew Livers was the stock's nephew. He was at the Easter celebration, Gibbs, at their house on April 16th. But Matthew was described as the black sheep of the family.

He had trouble maintaining a steady job. And he'd had a number of arguments with Wayne and Sharman. Now, I couldn't figure out what the arguments were about. None of the reporting was specific on the contents of the arguments. But if you're related to the victims and you fit this state profiler's profile, sure. Please find out that you've had a number of arguments with the victims. You're going to be up there.

You will be on the radar. I think we also need to say Matthew was developmentally disabled and he had a low IQ. And these are both details that would become important to the case. Detective searched through Matthew's trash and they questioned his former employer about his personality. It was on April 25th that they asked him to come in for questioning. So, I mean, Gibbs, this is what? A week and a half or so after the murder. Matthew agreed and said that no problem.

He was there to cooperate with the authorities. That's always a good sign, depending how you're received by the authorities. Well, I think the police are always open to people that are cooperative with them that they want to talk to. I think my thing is, okay, if you're guilty, do you go in and voluntarily say, yeah, I'll cooperate. I'll do whatever you want me to do. Some people do. And I never understand it. It's almost as if they believe that they're so much smarter than the police,

they're either going to be able to talk themselves out of what the police think they've done or somehow the testing of whatever is not going to come back on them. I just don't get it. Well, and you know me. I'm a firm believer. Guilty or not, you walk in with an attorney. But I think that's why it's important to make the statement that Matthew was developmentally disabled and had a low IQ. So when they questioned him, he said that he drove home to Lincoln, Nebraska.

After the Easter celebration, he stayed in his home with his girlfriend, Sarah, her son, and her roommate. He did admit to having had some minor disagreements with Wayne and Charmin, but he said those were resolved years ago. After five hours of questioning, he agreed to take a polygraph test, which he failed. And the way I understand it Gibbs is that Matthew started to get very frustrated when police kept pushing him for answers.

The detectives began to threaten him with the death penalty, saying things like they were going to hang his ass from the highest tree, threatening him with. the electric chair, lethal injection. And then I think the detectives got into asking Matthew leading questions. And he began to make up a story about how he shot Sharman. Matthew livers confessed after an intense 11-hour interrogation and he was arrested. He gave them the name Nick Samson and said that the two of them planned the murders over text and phone calls. two days before it happened.

Nick was Matthew's cousin, but he was not related to the stocks at all. Nick was arrested shortly after Matthew implicated him. But Matthew recanted his confession the very next day, saying Gibbs, and we've heard this hundreds of times, he only confessed because he just wanted it to be over. And it just tells you how much pressure and, stress someone goes through to admit to something so horrendous that you didn't even do.

But you're willing to say, I did this. I'll even tell you how I did it because I want out of here. Well, think about 11 hours of a constant verbal confrontation. Yeah. Where police are saying, you're going to hang. You're going to fry. You're going to get the needle. They're making all of these threats and take Matthew who may not most likely does not have the faculties to stand up under this immense amount of pressure. I think it'd be hard for anybody to stand up underneath that. It would be. And I think especially someone with a lower IQ, they're going to have a hard time dealing

with those type of things. Nick went through an interrogation as well, but he wouldn't admit any involvement. Now, they said he did fail a polygraph test, but even then he refused to confess. The police believed Nick was involved because of the marijuana pipe found at the scene. They also questioned Nick's grandfather, who told them that Nick borrowed his 12-gauge shotgun. They searched his home, seized the gun, and some blue jeans that tested positive for blood. Authorities also thought that they found the car. that the newspaper person said they saw that morning.

It was a 1997-4 owned by Nick's brother. It had been detailed at 5.30 a.m. on April 17th. When police searched it the first time, they didn't find anything. So investigators called David Kofo and told them that Matt confessed to throwing the gun in the back of the car. Kofoed himself searched the car and found. a bloodstain that later matched to Wayne stock on the dashboard. This is not looking good. No, it's not.

You've got a 12 gauge, which we know was used, blue jeans with blood on them. Now that is all circumstantial. Sure. But when you find a blood stain in the car that matches Wayne stock. Yeah. Well, the jury's going to look at that and say, how else could that bloodstain have gotten in the car other than you were involved in these murders. Right. I like a clean car, but there's no way I'm detailing my car at 5.30 in the morning.

I found that a little strange. But Gibbs, this is the biggest part of this case. And it wouldn't come out until years later, but David Kofod fabricated that evidence against these two guys. officials also withheld video evidence of Matthew recanting his confession the next day. We talked about the fact that he did. It was on video. They just withheld it. The girlfriends of both Matt and Nick swore that they were home that night. But I don't think that mattered.

You know, the evidence was mounting against them. Some of the not real, which we'll talk about later. one small detail is a big part of what led to justice for Wayne, Charmin, Matt, and Nick. Jessica dropped an inscribed ring in the house. She had taken the ring from a truck that she and Gregory had stolen. It was this ring that connected them to the murders. The inscription inside the ring said,

love always Corey and Ryan. The police found the ring on the kitchen floor. At first, they thought it belonged to Wayne or Sherman. The police officer who picked it up, put it into evidence because from his way of thinking, the stock home was very clean. It was very orderly. So he thought it was very unusual for an expensive piece of jewelry to be just laying on the kitchen floor. Stock children didn't know anyone named Corey or Ryan, and they said they'd never seen the ring. Police tracked a manufacturer of the ring to A&A jewelers in Buffalo, New York. A woman named Mary Martina was working that day. The company was going out of business, and she was shutting down the office.

But a Nebraska detective asked her to track down the owners of the ring. She searched through boxes and had a colleague help make a computer grid to narrow down the results. She wanted to help because police relayed to her that this ring was related to a homicide. She's taking a serious. Well, and I think you would too. Yeah. Right? You get a call from a detective who said, hey, we found this ring that your company made or at least inscribed or whatever role they played in the,

in the ring, can you help us find out who it belongs to? Yeah, because it could help solve a murder. Yeah. Well, the inner detective in, I think all of us would be like, yeah, hell yeah, I'm in. Let me see what I can figure out. Because hopefully it matches what my buddy that planted some false evidence, it backs that up and we're all in the clear. That's why whenever I do anything wrong, I always have in my pocket a ring that says love always,

Ghiby. Yeah. And I just dropped them randomly at different places just in case something should happen to go wrong. And I would be looked at as a suspect. Well, I wouldn't be because I'd say, yeah,

look at the ring. Who's names in the ring? But thankfully, you just air that out to everybody and now I feel pretty good about it. Okay. Tusha. Now what am I going to do with these 2,000 rings? Well,

you know, we'd be glad to tell you where you can put them. So Mary's doing all this work. And obviously Gibbs, this is not a situation where she's just typing up a name and it's coming right up in the database. It took her three days. And she figured out the ring was sent to a Walmart in Beaver Dam, Wisconsin. The owner of the ring, a guy named Ryan, broke up with Corey. He dropped his ring in his truck and pretty much forgot about it.

And Ryan reported his truck stolen right before the stock murdered. So, you know, it's interesting, but you have all of these clues kind of starting to come together. A detective named Jim Roar received a call that the truck was found abandoned in Louisiana. And pretty quickly, he found the suspected thieves, Greg Fester and Jessica Reed. A few weeks later, he got a call from Nebraska police and learned about the connections between the two of them and the murder. Jessica was out on bail for car theft and agreed to an interview with Detective Roar. That interview happened on June 6th.

Nebraska police were invited. Jessica told them that she and Greg were high on cough syrup and weed and were driving to the beach when they ran out of gas in Louisiana. And that's when they abandoned the truck. They showed her the picture of the marijuana pipe. and the gold ring. Jessica admitted to stealing money from someone, but she said she couldn't remember who they were or where it happened. She did admit to losing the pipe. She said that on the morning of the 17th, she and Greg stopped at the house in Nebraska. Greg let her in and she stole $500 from the kitchen,

but she said they left. The ring slid off her finger inside the house. She didn't admit to killing anyone and she swore that they only took money. So at this point, detectives were pretty confused. Don't forget they've got two guys already. Yeah. For the murder of Wayne and Sharman, but Matt Livers never mentioned a ring. Didn't talk about stealing a truck and didn't talk about two thieves from Wisconsin. So something's got to get.

give here, right? Because the details are not adding up. Detective showed Jessica pictures of Matt and Nick and she said she didn't know who they were. She didn't recognize them. And I think much like they had done with Matt, they started in on Jessica with threats of the death penalty. And that's when she said that Nick Sampson looked familiar to her. And Jessica started to feed detectives more information. Now, it became Gibbs. They were in the house at the same time as Nick. That's when they heard the gunshots and they ran away. But police weren't buying it. They knew that she was lying by this point and she was arrested. When police searched Jessica's home, they found a journal entry from April 22nd, 2006. She wrote,

I killed someone. He was older. I loved it. I wish I could do it. I could do it. I wish I could do it. it all the time. If Greg doesn't watch it, I'm going to just leave one day and go do it myself. And it's a huge statement. It's huge. I'm also left with the feeling of why are you writing this down in a journal? Right. If you're a murderer, if you've killed someone, best not to put it in your hello kitty journal. No. Because it's going to come back to bite you in the ass. It's definitely impactful. I'm very vague when I use my hello kitty journal, by the way. You should be. Yeah.

I just really like that pink color that it has on it. I know you do. You know. Yeah, I know you do. While Gregory was in jail, Jessica wrote him a letter and left it at their shared home for him to read when he got out. The letter was inside a cigarette box. Also inside the box was a 12-gauge shotgun shell casing that was later proved to have come from the gun that was used to kill Wayne Stein. In the letter, she wrote, and this bullet, well, Bunny,

it's the only thing left. And I loved it. But that's something we will talk about one day. But it's here also because that was something I did for you, me and for you to love me as much as I love you. I don't even know where to start. Are we now at the point where we're showing our love for each other by murdering people. Yeah, she's got away with words. So not only are you journaling, but you're keeping souvenirs in the form of, you know, these shotgun shells that were used in the murder. I get it. Everybody wants to keep a memento from very important times in their lives. Yeah. I just don't think one of those very important times should be the time that you and your significant other.

murdered two innocent people. That's my take on it. Yeah, it's really coming across it. She really enjoyed it too. Well, and that is one thing that really jumps out, right? This is not a, like some other cases that we've done recently, question of, was she a willing participant? Right.

I think she's answered that question very adamantly. Yeah. She liked it. She enjoyed it. She even said she would go off and do it by, herself if Greg's not careful. Yeah, she's ready to do it again. Yeah. This one's not a question of coercion. Greg didn't take her captive and force her to go along with him. She was more than a willing participant. I think that much is very clear. But in a later interview, Jessica confessed that

Greg was the killer. Police read her journal to her. And even still, she denied having a gun, denied killing anyone, she vehemently denied that she shot Charmin. But I think they wore her down and she eventually admitted to shooting Wayne, you know, kind of being threatened with the death penalty and saying things like that. It wears people down after a while. Well, sure. I also think they told her that she would get a lighter sentence if she cooperated. That's kind of a standard go-to ploy.

Yeah. It's not just a ploy. I mean, oftentimes you will get a lighter sentence if you cooperate. Life versus death. DNA testing revealed both Jessica and Gregory's DNA on the pipe, the flashlight, and the ring. And in these later interviews, Jessica told the police that no one else was in the home besides her and Gregory. The state charged her with two counts of first degree murder. Gregory was already in custody. but he too was charged with two counts of first degree murder. In an interview with a probation officer, Gregory admitted that he and Jessica really didn't need any money.

He said, we were just there for the thrill, I guess. There's a lot of thrill riding and killing going on. Yeah, that's pretty scary. Yeah, it really is. The thought that two teenagers Gibbs would kill someone for the thrill of it, if that doesn't scare the you know what out of you. I don't know what does. I mean, random, hey, this house looks good. Let's break in. If somebody's here, we're going to kill them. Yeah. Okay. That could be anyone USA. It could be. And that's a scary thought. And she enjoyed it,

according to her. And according to her journal. Exactly. Yeah. But back in Nebraska, Matt, Nick, nor any of the stock children knew what was going on. Nick's attorney received a call in June that Jessica and Greg had been arrested. And Gibbs, besides that first day confession, both Matthew and Nick, maintained their innocence. They told their attorneys they were innocent. And it was their attorneys who spread the news of the arrests of Jessica and Greg to local journalists. Matthew's attorney, Julie Bear, had done her own investigation.

And what she came up with Gibbs is that there was no evidence against Matt, besides a small blood smear. There was no call or text history between Matt and Nick leading up to the murder. And now two others had been arrested. A ballistics examiner determined that Nick's gun was not the murder weapon. In July, the attorneys received Jessica's interrogation video where she finally admitted no one else was involved in the murder. This was enough to set Nick free. He was released on October 8, 2006. And just after Nick was released, Matt's attorney received a video of him recanting his confession.

That led to his release on December 6, 2006. the county attorney dropped all charges against them. Gregory pled guilty to two counts of secondary murder and one count of use of a firearm in the commission of a felony on January 19, 2007. A judge declared that the county attorney missed the deadline to announce the intention to seek the death penalty for Greg. So on March 19th, Gregory was sentenced to life

in prison for each murder and 10 to 20 years for the firearm. Jessica took a plea deal. On January 24th, 2007, she agreed to testify against Gregory for a lesser charge and to avoid the death penalty. She pled guilty to two counts of second degree murder. On March 19th, the district court sentenced her to life in prison for each murder to be served consecutively. So I found this interesting, Gibbs. I mean, you know, they got what they deserved. Sure, they did. I think the sentences are more than fair. What I thought was interesting was that Gregory escaped a potential death sentence because the county attorney didn't announce that he was going to seek the death penalty in time. And Jessica had to take a plea deal, I think, to escape a

possible death sentence. Jessica apologized to Wayne and Charmin's family. In her statement against Gregory, she wrote that she still thinks about the way Charmin screamed when Gregory shot her. Gregory also apologized to the family in court. Now, I said I was okay with the sentences, right? Jessica was not. And I think when you're convicted, you're never okay.

You're going to appeal. Sure. The Supreme Court of Nebraska rejected Jessica's appeal in January of 2008. She claimed that the sentences were excessive. She also argued that she had no criminal history, that Gregory actually committed the two murders, and that she really wasn't given credit for cooperating with law enforcement. But I think she did get some credit. When you look at that diary and then the note that was wrapped with the

shell within the cigarette box, I think it could have been a whole lot worse for her. It could have been, but I think if you look at the ultimate outcomes of each of them, they both got the same thing. They got there through different routes, but they ultimately both ended up with life sentences. Gregory's appeal was also rejected in 2008. Matthew Livers and Nicholas Sampson, both filed lawsuits against the state. Their lawsuits argued that they were detained without probable cause and subjected to coercive interrogation, which led Matthew to falsely confess. In October of 2013, the Nebraska Attorney General announced the state had no choice but to settle the Samson and Livers lawsuits. The Attorney General defended the Nebraska State

Patrol investigators who were involved and said settling the suit would be more cost-efficient than going to trial. He placed the blame on David Kofo, the CSI director. On April 1st, 2014, David Kofod was ordered to pay $6.49 million to the two men wrongfully convicted. 4.35 million was supposed to go to Matthew and 2.14 million to Nicholas. And the reason why this all came about was because it was proven that, co-fode had planted evidence that was used to wrongfully convicted to men. And I think it was, you know, we're talking about the blood smear that was identified as Wayne Stock's blood.

Yeah. And you and I talk a lot about coerced confessions, right? I have a real problem with that. I know it's a fine line. Police have to push hard sometimes to get people to tell the truth. Right. But we've also seen very well documented cases where, you know, people with learning disabilities or with extremely low IQs are coerced into saying things that even the investigators know aren't true. Now we have a case where an investigator actually planted evidence that was used to convict.

This is not how the criminal justice system is supposed to work. And all those good law enforcement folks out there, they hate seeing things like this because it tarnishes what they do. Yeah, I was taint. I was going to say, that's a good word tarnish. I was going to say it taints them because what happens is it makes the general public distrustful of all law enforcement. Right. When you see these things. And we know that's not the case.

This is a very small percentage of people in law enforcement that do things. that do things that they shouldn't do. So you get a lot of good people lumped in, though. And that's where the mistrust comes in and all that. And these guys were wrongfully convicted. You and I really didn't have time in this episode to go into their trials, their convictions, but that's exactly what happened.

And it was primarily based on, I think in large part, this planted evidence. Yeah. Samson stated that, he suffered from the effects of imprisonment. Matthew Livers had no criminal record, but he spent six months in jail. He now suffers from PTSD, sleep problems, anxiety, and depression.

Kofod blamed accidental contamination for the reason why the bloodstain was found. But the prosecution said he used DNA evidence to fake a positive test. He knew what he did wrong. he thought these guys were guilty and here's a way to make sure that they pay for what they did. The problem is they didn't do it. And that's why you can't make up evidence. You have to go where the evidence leads you. Well, now he's got to pay him over $6 million.

But he's not going to. He doesn't have $6 million. No. Kofo left Nebraska now lives in North Carolina. He's publicly stated Gibbs. He has no way to pay these guys this month. money and who does who's got six million dollars i couldn't find the details of how much the state paid them i'm i'm sure they got some money but they're never going to see this six plus million

dollars from david kofa in an interview with dateline andy stock said that in july two five his father told him when it's my day to go hold your head high and keep living life all of the stock children have tried to follow this advice and make their parents proud, they're all happy that the correct killers are serving time in jail. I mean, obviously, they're angry with Gregory and Jessica, as anyone would be. Andy now owns the family farm and built a new house to replace his parents home. All three of the children are scarred by what happened to their parents. Andy told Dateline that he wakes up a lot at night to make sure that no one is breaking into his home.

Man, I bet. You talk about the effects. They're so far reaching that it's so sad on top of these innocent people losing their lives. And the grief that their kids would have just about the fact that their parents were murdered. Yeah. But you have PTSD. You have trauma. You have all these different things associated with.

their deaths, the way they happened. The fallout is enormous. Oh. It's almost unmeasurable. And in this case, you had a relative accused, charged and convicted for a short period of time of the murders. So that couldn't help the family dynamics. No, I'm sure they looked at him for a time as scum. You know, here's a member of our own family that killed our parents. Matt and Nick are now back on speaking terms. but they really don't have a friendship. And I think it would be hard to go back to being friends. Well, sure, you implicated me into a murder. Yeah, it would be very tough to have gone through all of that

and come out the other side with the same friendship that you had prior to the incident. Nick says that people sometimes make jokes about how he's a murderer. But even still, he refuses to move out of his. hometown. Jessica Reed is now 38 years old. She said in her interview with Dateline that she feels extreme remorse for her actions. She's found religion and says that she's changed a lot from the girl that she once was. So Gibbs, as we wrap up this episode, no doubt. Wayne and Sharman's murders were a senseless tragedy. The actions of Gregory and Jessica affected a family, infected an entire community.

And I think one of the scary things about this case, and we kind of already touched on it, is the randomness, these people picked a house. Yeah. And they said, okay, this is it. We're going inside and whatever happens happens. That is scary when innocent people are targeted by an individual or individuals who are bent on causing mayhem, destruction, murder.

That's scary. It should scare everyone. Yeah, should. And I can't help but keep thinking about that journal entry, you know, writing it down that she liked it. And she can't wait to do it again. Right. If Gregory doesn't want to do it with me, hell, I'll do it by myself.

Yeah. Maybe feel good. That's it, Gibbs, for the case of Gregory Fester and Jessica Reed. We've got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's check them out. Hey, guys. This is Gavin in Newark, Delaware.

I love the podcast. Been listening for a while now. And something I've always thought about telling you about, but you've just reminded me recently is there was some crimes around this area, the Delaware, Pennsylvania area, by groups called the Johnson gang. And they didn't kill a lot of people, but it's still really interesting.

interesting crime case, sort of like organized crime, family crime thing. And what reminded me of it, there's a Sean Penn movie, not just a Sean Penn movie, a Sean Penn and Christopher Walking movie. So you guys got to check that out. Anyway, thanks so much. Keep your own time ticking. Sean Penn and Christopher Walking. That's got to be a good movie, man.

I'm in. I need more cowbell. That's for sure. Yeah, more cowbell. So I don't know what that movie is, though. I have to look it up. And I'm not familiar with the Johnson Yang or whatever that case is. So I'll look into that as well.

I'm sure you're watching that movie this weekend. I feel like we've been talking about Sean Penn quite a bit. Yeah. And he's been in a lot more movies than I thought he had been. He has been. I thought he was very selective in the roles that he, you know, he had taken over the years after fast times, obviously. But wonder what his hair looks like in this one.

I don't know. I'm sure it's glorious. Yeah. Hi, Fergan Givit. This is Darian Gibson. I'm a fairly new listener in the last couple of months and have just been really enjoying your podcast. I am curious about if you have ever thought of covering the case of, it was back in 2016, her name was Ingrid Lynn, was a single mother in Seattle who was murdered and dismembered by a date.

Someone she'd only been dating for about three weeks, John Charlton. And I just haven't heard a whole lot of coverage on it. So I was curious if you guys would ever be interested in covering that or if there's enough information, you know, for you to give you your take on it. That's about it. Thanks a lot. Keep up the good work and keep your own time ticking. Oh, well, thank you very much, Darien. That's not a case that I'm familiar with.

No. It sounds interesting. It does. It sounds like something we should cover. She made the point, though. Is there enough out there on? And that's something that we sometimes run into. Right.

There just isn't. And it's strange to me. Cases that are fascinating that just kind of received so little attention, so little in the way of coverage and newspapers, articles, things like that. You know what I also found interesting about that voicemail. Last name Gibson? Yes. Fascinating. Yeah.

I don't know if you remember, but I think we just said her name on Patreon. or PayPal. I can't remember which one it was. Fascinating as well. Either last week or the week before. Yeah, riveting. Hey, Mike and Gibby. Hey, this is Aaron, and I tell you what, man.

I was giddy when I found out about you guys doing a podcast on Margo Freshwater. Growing up, she was a good friend of the family and remained a good friend of the family even after she went back to prison. We grew up. I actually grew up in Reynoldsburg, Ohio. And her daughter and my sister were like best friends growing up, and they both had children at a young age as teenagers. But she was around all the time. As far as you guys know, that's a pretty cool story.

Yeah, and right to this day, she's still living not too far from here in Columbus, Ohio, with her husband, Daryl McArthur. So, yeah, I just wanted to share that little bit of news. It's a really cool story, and, yeah, that's about it. Anyways, wish you guys the best of luck in the upcoming year. God bless you both. Keep your head on swivel. And thanks. Talk to you guys later.

Bye. So I will say this, Gibbs. That case has sparked a lot of comments. A lot of opposing viewpoints, I think, on that case. Maybe more so than most that we do, you know, with some people saying, well, if she made it 32 years out and didn't do anything wrong, they should have just let her be. and others jumping in and saying, no, she's got to pay her original price. She escaped from prison, pay that, which she did, and then get out and live the rest of your life.

I just find it interesting to watch and read some of the comments because it's interesting. And I like it. I like that people have opposing viewpoints and are able to go back and forth civilly, as long as it's civil. Yeah. Hi, Mike and Givie. It's Rebecca from Iowa. I just started listening to you guys while I dooredash. And so sometimes it's just so hard to get out of the car and deliver the food because I'm so wrapped up.

But it's cool because you guys get so involved in telling the stuff that when I can't pay attention to the one time, I can still just jump right back in. And you guys are just great. I live so odd podcasts and true crime podcast. and I love listening to your guys because you guys go so in depth. But I'm not yet a Patreon and I want to do that. But thank you for helping me do my door dashes when I just want to stop and go home. I'm like, I'll just do one more so I can finish this story. But it never ends.

I just start listening to another one. So you guys are great and awesome. And thanks for all that you do to tell the stories and just how you guys are always on the side of the right people and but you guys just the way you tell it and stuff is awesome so shout out to you guys and i'll tell everybody to know about you guys and yeah so me and my daughter both was the podcast she's the one that told me all about them so that it is a great way to bond with your kids okay thanks you guys from iowa bye man she is happy she is i want to get i need some of that energy man yeah to keep going where's my straw that's what i want to

know, DoorDash. How come you forget my straw half the time? Be nice. I know. Be nice because I'm telling you, over this last year, Gibbs, without the grubhubs and the DoorDash, I might have whittled away to not nothing. Let's be honest. Not nothing.

Let's be honest about that. But I wouldn't have gotten some of the tasty treats that I have. Yeah. I agree. Same here. It's been an amazing service, especially over the last year. so. I didn't use it as much before. Yeah.

But, and now I might be hooked. You might have to have a, I might need an intervention on the grubhub slash door dash. I'm kind of there with you. We had one thing in the mailbag. Kristen L. in Chicago sent us some of that famous Garrett's Chicago mixed popcorn, man. I love it. I love it too. It's a little ridiculous through the whole recording you tossing at me, telling me to hold my mouth open and catch it.

I'm like, I'm trying to work here, man. and you're like moving my head around trying to catch this popcorn coming at me in the air. First of all, people are going to know that's not true because, okay, I might do that with peanuts or something like that. Never would I take a chance on wasting the garrets, man. It's too good. If they believe you. All right, everyone. That is it for another episode of true crime all the time.

So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.