True Crime All The Time - Ian Huntley

Episode Date: July 1, 2019

In 2002, Ian Huntley murdered 10-year-old girls Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman in Soham, England. These are often referred to as the Soham murders as they shocked the small town. Many people turned out to look for these two girls after they went missing.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Ian Huntley and the Soham murders. Huntley was 28 years old when he committed the murders. People were shocked when the news of his background came out. He worked at the local school and yet somehow had a long history of inappropriate sexual contact with children as well as charges of robbery.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.comSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 137 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. Doing a little better than you are. Yeah, I'm hanging in there, man. My voice was a little iffy this week. I lost it at some point. I was more than iffy. Yeah, I really literally could not talk. We were putting out ads for your replacement. Like, you know, hey, I don't know if he's going to make it. I know you thought it was a little too early for that. Yeah, my voice was absolutely gone.

Yeah. And I really don't know why. A bunch of tea, bunch of honey. And I'm not a big tea drinker, but just resting it and doing everything I could and us waiting very late in the week. Right. Which we've had to do a couple times here lately. And I think it's going to, it's okay right now. The question is, how long can it make it?

Yeah. Longevity. If it doesn't make it through the episode, you're going to have to bear with us. But hopefully it does. Yeah. We'll see what we can do. So this episode comes out Sunday. The day before that is my birthday.

Yeah. Happy birthday. Happy birthday to me. I'm 32 years old. Something like that. In my mind. Yeah. That's like your old waist size too.

That is my, it actually is my old waist size. 32. I would love to be 32 again on a whole. bunch of different fronts levels yeah levels and fronts yeah speaking of that i got my new workout machine that i've kind of been hinting about yeah it looks good sitting over there yep and i i used it the other day i see he's got your clothes hanging on it and could barely walk up the stairs oh yeah that's how out of shape i am i'm excited for you man i am too i am too i'm really excited to give this a go and and i'll give people an update as we go along but we've got a lot to do so let's start out by giving our pay

Patreon shoutouts. We had Kim Danco. Hey Kim. Brett Edy jumped out of our highest level. Hey, Edie, thank you. Teresa Ward. What's up, Teresa. Ronnie Jai Kumar. Jumped out of our highest level. Laza Crosford. What's up, Laza? Debbie Broomfield. Hey, Debbie. Stacey Johnson. Thanks, Kate. Janet Warren. Oh, thanks, Janet. Andrew Unkaffir jumped out of our highest level. A little uncumfer now. Phyllis Jernigan. Hey, Phyllis. Carla Diaz jumped out to our highest level. Tiaz. Tiffany Rikert. I like Tiffany's name. Rachel Ferris Cornwell jumped out at our highest level.

Just sounds regal. Iris Gitcho. Get yo ass out of here. Yeah. Anne-Marie Svinson. Stephanie Fisher. Hey, Stephanie. Jessica Cruz.

Uh, Jessica. Dr. Anne Marie. Yeah, hey, thanks, Doc. We got a doctor in the house. We do have one. Hela Beck Nilsen. Hey, Hela. jumped up to our highest level.

She's been a long time page on. Yeah, and so is her buddy. Yeah, her buddy Nina Matheson jumped up to our highest level as well. I'm assuming that was a coordinated effort. Nobody wanted to get left behind. Yeah, so appreciate both of them for sure. We do. We do.

They're both great supporters of the show. And then we had Alyssa Vaffiatis. Vathiatis out in Greece. She went triple digits, Honest Gibbs. And I'm ready to go to Greece. Yeah, she had to try to do outdo Mary Beth, basically. Got a little war there. But we appreciate it.

We appreciate all the support we get. And if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Joe Hartwell. Hey, Joe. So I've kind of had a run here lately of some guys that are in the vault, which is a good thing. Yeah. We talked about it. At a certain point in time, we started to gain quite a bit of male listenership. Yeah, we did.

The percentage of male to female. although still much higher female. Oh, sure. It started to swing a little bit. Yeah. I think that's true for true crime in general. I think so. Yeah.

I think so. Then we had some great PayPal support as well. Susan Beck. Hey, Susan. Our friend Yvonne in the UK. What up, Yvonne. I got something that said people like, they get a kick out of the way that I pronounce Yvonne.

The way that you say. I guess. I don't know. Yvonne. Yeah. People like it. Yeah. Or I don't know like it, but they find it funny, probably.

Michelle Anderson. Michelle. And our buddy Ted Perry out in Arizona. Man, Ted is just doing it up. Who I saw the other day posted that it was like 108 degrees or something like that. Yeah, I bet he's missing Denver now. I said that's what you get from moving to Arizona. Yeah. All right, Gibbs, right now we have a Patreon episode out, came out on my birthday. That's a good one. June 29th. Thanks for bringing me into it this time. Yes. So this is what we decided to do. There has only been one episode. in the true crime all the time world that Gibb was not a part of. We've talked about it before.

It was episode two, Richard Kiklensky. So what we decided to do was essentially a redo. Yeah. And all new research. We did the episode over, you and I together. Right. And put it out on Patreon. So, you know, kind of giving something back to our, the folks that, you know,

support us on Patreon. and we had a good time doing it. We did, man. It turned out really well. I think he did. It's always been one of those very interesting stories to me, this guy, Richard Kikklinsky. Yeah. And to get you in on the act and kind of close that loop, I think was very cool.

I enjoyed it. True Crime All Time Unsolved. There's an episode out right now on the disappearance of Richie Edwards. Yeah, I like that one. This is a guy that was in a band called the Manick Street. preachers. So really, if you, if you look at it, so this week, T-CAT, we're getting ready to get into it. We're going to England. Yeah. The unsolved episode, we're traveling to Wales. This is right next door. Right next door. So essentially we're in the UK, right? For both of these episodes. British. We're

going British. British. British. British. So check that out. But I want to get into this true crime all the time episode. And a special shout out goes out to Lana Hyatt for her help in writing and research of this episode. So we appreciate it. We do. Like I said, we're going to England to talk about a murderous Letch named Ian Huntley. Ooh, Lech. Okay. Lech. Always learn a new word with you. Yeah, I mean, this was a younger guy. And, you know, some of the things that it's known that he did leading up to his murders, they're shocking. And they're going to tick people off in that mold of he did this, he did that, he got away with this, he got away with that until he ultimately killed.

You know, and the thing about Huntley is that after he killed, he inserted himself into the investigation, which I think he thought would detract suspicion, you know, from him. Sure. But it would ultimately end up being a. factor in the authorities solving the crime. So let's jump right in. Ian Huntley was born January 31st, 1974 to Kevin and Linda Huntley in Grimsby, northeast Lincolnshire, England. Right. So that's where we're at. They always give you like, you just can't be like here. It's like Dayton, Ohio. It's like in the town of. There's like 20 words. Yeah. 20 names. Yeah. And then you're finally like,

oh, okay, no wonder people can't find where they, after they leave the pub, they don't know where they're going. So it's funny you say that when people buy merchandise and I have to try to ship it out. Invariably, the shipper thing comes back and says, well, we don't know where that is. Yeah. And this is a machine that's supposed to know where all these places are. Exactly. So you've got to go through and say, okay, it's this region, it's this city, it's this. Break it down.

Oh, my gosh. To the village. Why is it so freaking complicated? I know, postal services. Now, Ian's parents were only 18 years old when he was born. So they obviously had him very young. His dad was a gas fitter. And because of all of these circumstances, they lived with his dad's grandparents to save money.

His mom, Linda, had quit her job to take care of Ian. They didn't have a lot. Luckily, Kevin had a set of parents that was willing to help out. Now, the one thing about Ian that you read a lot about, he was very devoted to his mother. So much so that when his younger brother Wayne came along two years later, he was jealous. And I guess I find that odd for a two, three year old to be jealous. Right. At that young age.

Sure. You know, I guess it happens. But they even went into some talk about, you know, as a very, very young age. young baby, Ian would try to deceive his mom. He would act like he was hurt. Oh, so he would scream. Manipulate the situation. He was manipulating his mom into getting the attention for himself and taking the attention away from his brother. Wow. He was jealous, man. He didn't want his younger brother to, you know, get this attention from his. mom because he loved his mom so much. Yeah. He was definitely a mama's boy. Something you see later in

in life with some kids, but that's pretty early. Well, that's what I was thinking. Yeah. I mean, you do that to me all the time. You're very manipulative. Yeah, absolutely. Crying. Uh, I know one time we were in the store and you just did that flot, you know, like a kid flop and was just like beating your hands and arms in the air, rolling around. I want some silly potty. Yeah. And I got the attention. And you got the silly potty. Yeah. And I got the cuffs too when they took me away. You manipulated me into it. Yeah. But like you said, I think that's very common for siblings of a certain age.

I guess what kind of really drew me in was the two, three year old time frame. That seemed awful young. Yeah. It does seem to be. Now, they talked about his father being very stern, had a very strict code of conduct of behavior. Ian didn't like his dad. And I think a lot of it had to do with that.

A lot of it had to do with this extremely deep-seated love that he had for his mother. He just really got to the point as he went on in life. He just despised anything to do about his dad. He had that, you know, mother-loving. He was a mother-lover. Mother-lover. Remember that show? No, was it called mother-lover?

No, but had the guy, his, his, uh, His nickname was Mother Lover. No. And I guarantee you're not going to remember it. It was the horrible bosses. Horrible bosses. Jamie. Okay, so the movie.

The movie. Okay, because you called it a show. Oh, yeah. When you say show, I think of TV show. Yeah, yeah, yeah, movie. Yeah, that was a great movie. Yeah, wasn't his, Jamie, I remember Jamie's last name, the actor, famous actor. He played Mother Lover.

I don't remember his name. I know he got like an Oscar for something. Oh, you were too funny, man. Yeah, he played Django and Chain. Yeah, he played like... It was in, like, in living color. Stevie, he played Stevie, you know, I think that's what he got his Oscar in,

or Ray Charles, one of the guys that... Stevie and Ray Charles? Yeah. That's extremely racist. No, no, because he's blind. Jamie Fox. Yeah, Jamie Fox. I'm just letting you twist in the wind.

Yeah, thank you for that. No. Mother lover. So, you know, gosh, in the rare time, Gibbs, we don't do this very often. We don't. I was so stumped. I had to look it up.

I nailed it. You did not nail it. It's not mother lover. It's mother effer Jones was the guy's name. It's close to mother lover. And that's what made it so funny. Mother lover. But anyway.

I see a meme coming out of this one. I'm sure there will be. I don't know. So as a kid, Ian suffered from asthma. He was very pale, talked about the fact. that, you know, he had this personality that was almost like he was better than everybody else. He was luf. He kept to himself.

Because of all of this, he was bullied. Something that we, it seems like we're talking about a lot, right? In the background of, of these murderers. And we've also talked about the fact that bullying back in the day was different than it is now. This guy's almost my age. He's just a year younger or so. half a year younger than I am, in the 1980s, there was no big anti-bullying campaigns. Just three o'clock high.

Just three o'clock high, man. Meet me at three o'clock high. And to get that joke, you have to listen to the Patreon episode. It could be very rough back then. And I'm sure it still is today, even with, you know, all the attention that's put on bullying. some of his nicknames back in the day were the white cliffs of Dover. That seems like a strange nickname. Not being from England.

Yeah, it does seem like a strange. They also called him Spadehead. Now, all of this was due to the fact that apparently the guy had a fairly large forehead and it was very, very white. So I think that's where you get the white cliffs of Dover. Yeah. I'm not really sure where you get Spadeheadhead. I was thinking a spade as in a tallhead.

tool. Yeah, that can make more sense. Either way, he's got a big old forehead. That's what I'm taking from this. Yeah, billboard like. And again, right, it just takes one thing for bullies to latch on. And the next thing you know, you've got a nickname that's based on something that people find different. It's not right. Now, at age 13, he was forced to change schools. he was demonstrating some bad behavior. Add on to that the fact that he was being relentlessly bullied, but you figure this bullying, it must have been pretty bad, right,

to force someone to change schools. Now, there is some evidence in Huntley's childhood that he abused animals, not only abusing animals in the neighborhood, but strangling them as well. And again, we've talked about this, a bad sign, right? hurting animals as a child does not bode well for behavior later in life. It just doesn't. There's a record in school that he was subjected to what is known as kegging. Now, when I first saw

that, I thought we were talking about doing keg stands, which I love to do. You're flashing back to Frank the Tank Days. Right. Yeah. You know, I'm down in Panama City, Florida. People are lifting me. I'm holding on to the keg by my hands upside down and drinking from the, from the keg spout. Apparently over in England, this is something different. This is where two boys grabbed Ian's legs

and repeatedly just rammed his goods, his groin into a post in the yard. Well, that's not fun. Well, it sure as hell is not fun for the person being kegged, if that's a word. It shouldn't be fun for the two boys

that are, you know, just repeatedly ramming his twig his twig and berries into this pole the kegers the kegers i guess you'd call him this is something i've never heard of i don't know if this is an english thing i don't know if this is a if this made its way to the states and just wasn't an ohio thing i don't know have you ever heard of that i've never heard of that man i just uh and you've probably done a lot of crazy things to people there's just a guy code that involves not doing stuff to your nether regions. Yeah. I would agree with that. I mean, even in the most brutal sports, right? What's one of the basic rules? Nothing below the waist, man. Don't hit anybody in the groin.

That's right. You can do whatever else you want in some of these sports, you know, kick them any place, break their legs, break their arms. Don't hit them in the groin. So what happened over time? And I think this is true for a lot of people. And again, not making any excuses for Ian Huntley. but he was not treated well. And I think over time, he decided that, you know what? I'm not going to care about anyone. He became very uncaring and uncaring person. He never graduated from school, even though I think he was a pretty intelligent person.

Sure. He got decent grades. He began working at the age of 16. He was also into model airplanes. He had this dream of becoming a. pilot. And it was said that he would frequently go to the airbases, watch some of the jet planes in action, but it's really this time frame, 16, 17, 18 years old, where Ian Huntley began to try to associate himself with younger girls. So as most kids at age, they would have a

fascination and start dabbling with girls their own age. Yes. He just decided to go a bit younger. Yeah, I think you're right. There was something about his makeup that from this age, 16, 17, 18, he didn't appear to be interested in girls his own age when he was 18 years old. It was said that he was regularly hanging out with 13 year old girls. Yeah, that's a problem. That's a huge problem. Now, five years, is not a big difference when you're our age. No, not our age. Right? I mean, you're 67 years old. So if you want to date a 62-year-old Gibbs, I keep getting older and older.

Just go for it. Just go for it. Sure. Gibbs 100 years old. I just turned 46. If I want to date a 41-year-old woman... Won't happen. Your wife will...

I could... She'll keg you. But my wife would keg me. Yeah. You're exactly right. But you literally could date a woman. five years younger than yourself, it would be a non-issue. And she still be more mature.

And she would still be more mature than you. But when you're 18 years old, you cannot date a 13-year-old girl. No. I don't give a shit what country you're in. I don't care what the custom is. You're never going to convince me that it's right. Don't tell me the story about when my great-grandparents were on the farm. It's what you did.

You married a 13-year-old. Because that is true. Yeah. My grandparents in the hollers of Kentucky. Yeah. Married when they were like 13, 14 years old. But this ain't the coal miner days. And it don't make it right. You know?

It did work out. They were married for 50-some years, but. Times have changed. But also, I don't know that one of them was 18 and the other was 13. Right. That is just in my eyes, and I think everybody listening, it's just wrong. A few years later, when Ian was 20, he met an 18-year-old. named Claire Evans.

That's a more appropriate relationship. Yeah. And really just after a few weeks of dating, they got married. Well, hey, you know, you got that connection, you feel in it, you know, you just, hey, I'm in love. Let's do this. Can you imagine knowing somebody for two weeks? And there are probably people listening to this podcast right now that say, you know what,

I got married after two or three weeks. Somebody's saying, I knew day one. And good on you. Good on you if it worked out. Good on you. Good on you. But I cannot imagine that that is the norm. You've got to give a little bit of time for those skeletons to come out.

You got to get to know somebody. Yeah. You know, in two weeks, everybody's a fairy princess. And every man is, you know, a prince. Well, the warts don't start to show, right? For a little while. Yeah, they're concealed pretty good. I guess this Claire Evans.

just within a few days of the wedding started to realize that she had made a huge mistake in marrying Ian Huntley. But what she did to pull out of this marriage was unbelievable. So she left Ian, moved in with his younger brother, Wayne, which we said was about two years younger. Yeah. She's like, I'll show you. This did not go over well with Ian.

and he was very upset, as I think most people would be if you were smooching with my brother. Yeah, that's kind of weird, you know. So he would not grant her a divorce for like five years, just out of spite so Claire could not marry his brother. I'll show you. Yeah. I'm not going to do it. I'm going to keep supporting you. I'm going to stay married to you.

I stay married to you while you live with him. So a lot of stuff going on in this guy's life, right? the time he's 20 years old, it was said that he really didn't have a lot going on. You know, he couldn't keep a job for very long. He didn't have a permanent place to live. He was essentially couch surfing with friends and people like that. Right. At one point, he did work at a Heinz factory, I guess making some some catch up, was described by former colleagues there as being very concerned by the way he looked, which a lot of people have found at odds with the way he lived, right? His life was very disorganized, chaotic.

But apparently at work, they described him as almost vain, basically. Yeah. He had to look a certain way. His hair had to be, you know, very much like you. I mean, you know, your flannel has to be immaculate. Button the certain way. It buttoned the correct way. Snapped.

Your hair has to be combed. back in just the right fashion. Exactly the right amount of moose product or whatever it is. Sure. And this is essentially what Ian was like as well. He always thought that he was smarter than other people and he strived to look smarter. And maybe that had something to do with the fact that he dropped out of school at the age of 16. I mean, this wasn't a guy that walked around in sweatpants.

Like you. Right. Like me. Yeah. I love sweatpants. I love athletic shorts. You like anything that has a strong stream? Yes.

You can adjust it how you need depending on the time of day and what you ate. What I've eaten. I also don't have to go into a real job, so I can get away with it. Wouldn't you love back in the day when you were working? It's like once you knew you were displaced, just to start showing up like in splets and flip flops. No, I would have worn like a bathrobe and my boxers underneath. Look like Eddie. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly like Eddie. Yeah. And I would have walked around and just said, shitter's full. That's right. The whole time. All right. So let's get back to Ian. You know, people described him as fairly kind.

But again, like a lot of folks that we talked about, I think there was a light switch with inside this guy. And when it got flipped and he got angry, it became a Jekyll Hyde situation. A lot of people have thought over the years that this guy had a. split personality. In 1998, Ian is 24. He had a daughter with his girlfriend. She was only 15 years old at the time. This is a nine year age difference. This is a girl that is 15 years old. Yeah, don't like that. I don't like that either. I really don't. I don't know what the, I don't know if that's legal in England. I just think it's way too young. And again,

this relationship's not going to work out, right? They're not going to stick together. Is that a shock that, you know, at 15 years old, this girl probably, there's no way. She was ready for all of this. She doesn't even know what she wants in life. No. This girl would later come out and talk about her relationship with Ian Huntley. You know, in the beginning, it was probably as most relationships are. It's exciting. It was new. It was very, very, you know, in the beginning. It was very, you know, and it was very, sexual as she described it but pretty quickly Ian Huntley became abusive and this is something that is seen in pretty much every relationship he ever has he was very abusive well then she was lucky to get away from him yeah no I believe she was in 1998 alone the year that that he had this

baby with this girl he was charged with robbery as well as the rape of an 18-year-old girl in Grimsby. The problem is, and we're going to, we're going to circle back around on a lot of these cases, neither case proceeded through the courts due to a lack of evidence. Then you talk about about a six-year time period, Gibbs, from 95 to 2001. It has been said that Ian Huntley had some form of sexual contact with at least 11, underage girls during that time frame. The problem is nothing ever happened to this guy because either the cases were dropped due to lack of evidence or there was never enough for the police to, you know, seriously charge him, right? You know, really dig into and, and start the proceedings.

But I will say this. Police around that area, they sure as hell knew who this guy was. They looked into him a bunch of times. It wasn't exactly like he was flying under the radar and you're not going to, right? When you're accused as many times as Ian Huntley was of inappropriate sexual contact with minors. And I think that's as we go into this case, that's what's going to make it so frustrating. Yeah. This wasn't a kid that was totally under the radar. Police knew who he was.

I think he's just probably lucky that some of the dad. didn't come together in some form of posse. I think you're absolutely right. So they didn't have enough evidence to convict him of anything. But it's shocking that one or more of the dads didn't try a little vigilante, as you would call it, justice. That 1963 vigilante that you had drove like a dream. It was. It was a perfect car.

In 1999, this was a big year for Ian Huntley. He met a woman named Maxine Carr, a woman that actually had happened to be within his appropriate age range. I shouldn't say just his age range because his age range was very young. Very, very young. But Maxine Carr in 1999 was 22 years old. He would have been, what, gives about 25. So that's a good match, potentially. Potentially.

The two met in a nightclub. They hit it off immediately. and would eventually get married. In 2001, they moved to Littleport, where Ian got a job at the local center as the manager of a team of caretakers. And he took this job experience and parlayed it into another job

in November of 2001 as the caretaker at a Soam Village College. So essentially, he's like the caretaker. taker of the school. Okay. The part that I found interesting is that he, he actually got the job under the name Ian Nixon because who is a school not going to hire? They're not going to hire Ian Huntley in his record. Yeah, his known past. Yeah, his known past. And again, this is where it gets into it. I mean, how much of a record did he really have? Um, at the very least, I think he had a, um, he was accused of a lot of stuff, but I think he had a robbery charge that was of record.

So he's the caretaker at the school. Maxine became a teacher, a teacher's aide at the same school. But again, this relationship was like I said about all his relationships. It was abusive. He was physically abusive towards Maxine. So we're setting all of this up to, bring us to August of 2002. And it's Sunday, August 4th. 10-year-old friends, Holly Wells and Jessica Chapman, they're spending their summer night as a lot of families do. Together, having fun,

barbecuing. These two girls were very close. Jessica and Holly so close that they were matching clothes. There's actually a very sad picture of the two of them. It's, It's happy at the time because they're wearing matching Manchester United football shirts. It's sad later on looking back because it was taken, I think, you know, not long before this tragedy happens. So I think the picture was taken about 5.04 p.m. on August 4th. They're at Holly's house. They're wearing these matching shirts or smiling. It really wasn't that long after the picture was taken that the girl's decision. decided they wanted some candy. So they snuck out of Holly's house to go buy some candy. Just wanted to go down to the corner store and get some sweets. Sure. And this is something Gibbs

that I think you and I have both learned doing some of the cases that we've done in England, right? The Stuart Hazel case comes to mind where very young girls are allowed to kind of freely travel throughout some of these cities in England, they're so used to it because they grow up taking buses and things like that, very different from, I think, a lot of places in the U.S. outside of maybe a big city. Yeah, they don't stand out like they would if we were, you know, downtown Dayton. Yeah, and you saw something's not right here. You saw a 10-year-old girl walking around by by herself?

Yeah. You'd be like, some is not right here. Exactly. In England, I think from a young age, kids do take the buses and things to get around. Now, this one's a little different because I think they did not tell Holly's parents. It was a little sneaky sneak, sneak, right? They're going to sneak down to the corner store, but probably thought, no harm, no foul. We'll get down there.

We'll get back. Nobody will ever even know that we're gone. And we'll have tons of chocolate. Candy. Sweets. I wonder if they go to the store like Willy Wonka store. You know that candy store? And Willie Wonka.

Mm-hmm. With a guy sings and all that. Yeah, I think that's only in the movies. I just, you know, I'm just picturing that. Were you thinking every candy store in England has a guy that can sing? On a ladder that slides around? Yeah. Yeah.

They get paid extra because they can sing and do show tune. It's a very cheery place, you know? Kids go in there just because of that. In the movies, it is. Yeah. When Holly's parents go to check on the girls at around 830, they realize they're not there. And I think that is a moment of panic that you and I have touched on before. As a parent, it's your worst nightmare.

Anytime you go to check on one of the kids and they're not there. Add on top of that when you're essentially in charge of someone else's child, the nightmare is they're gone, they're missing, they've been taken. Now, most of the time, that nightmare ends up in, oh, Oh, they went somewhere. Right. We found them. They're back home. But a percentage of the time, it doesn't.

It ends up in tragedy. And that's what happened here. Right. These two girls are young, 10 years old. Holly's parents alerted police immediately. And the search began very quickly. I mean, police are going door to door. They're asking people if they've seen the girls.

One person that they talked to was 28-year-old. Ian Huntley. And there's actually a video from the interview that he gave to reporters that that I want to play. How do we know they were here at 615? Well, we have an eyewitness. Ian Huntley here is a familiar figure. Evening in, you're the school caretaker. The girls, Jessica and Hollywood, know you, and they saw you on the front doorstep. What went on? Well, I don't know the girls. I stood on the front doorstep, grooming my dog down. She'd run away and come back a bit of a mess. They just came across and asked how Miss Carr was.

She used to teach them at St. Andrews. I just said she weren't very good as she hadn't got the job. And they just says, please tell her that we're very sorry. And off the walk to the direction of the library over there. So obviously this interview was some days after the disappearance. I don't know how many days, but Erie. Yes. Right.

We know Ian Huntley is responsible for the murder of these two girls. to hear him talk about it and be interviewed by a journalist in the midst of this search. It's just, it's, it's, it's very eerie. It's one of those rare things, you know, to have this happen. Kind of like, remember the Stephen McDaniel case? Yeah. That was so strange. Very bizarre.

That guy knew the whole time that he had killed that woman and yet just went on and, you know, Now, he acted very over the top. This guy, it was a pretty subdued interview. Sure. But you have to imagine, this was a very big thing in Somme. It even attracted the attention of celebrities like David Beckham. You don't get much bigger over there than David Beckham. Yeah, he's big everywhere, man.

Yeah, he is pretty big everywhere. What happens when you model in your underwear? You model in your underwear, you're married to a spice girl. And you're a really, really good soccer player. Oh yeah, we probably should have mentioned that too. That's probably number one. Yeah. Or they call that football over there.

They do call it football over there. But everyone around the area, they wanted to find these two girls. And detectives struggled to piece together what happened that night after interviewing Ian. They did get a sense that he was a little odd. Maybe he was not telling the complete truth. But it wasn't enough, right? It's not, again, they didn't have anything to arrest him on. and they really didn't have much that would lead them to look a whole lot further into his story.

Yeah, just because he looks and sounds suspicious. Yeah. I mean, if that was a case, there's people we know would be in trouble all the time. But here's the problem. I am 100% sure. Had the police known about his complete history, you know, going back to, let's say, 1995 time frame, he would have been at the top of their story. suspect list. Easily. Knowing that this guy had a proclivity for underage girls had been accused

many, many times of inappropriate contact with underage girls, he would have been at the top of their list. Now, at one point, they actually did go into Ian's house. And he would later talk about this, right? He's nervous. Because we haven't said exactly what he did yet, but he's nervous. But he's nervous. He knows what he did. And apparently, the police came in and left without ever noticing that Jessica's phone was in his kitchen. Just didn't see it sitting there. Or if they saw it, they didn't think about it. They didn't think to ask. Now, yeah, that makes sense. I will say the police are going to take a beating when everything comes out when everything is said and done. We'll talk about that later. The other thing that really kind of put police off of Ian as a suspect was the fact that

Maxine gave him an alibi, a rock solid alibi at that. Well, that's going to keep him off your radar. Yeah. And we'll talk about why that is and how it came about and all that. But at this point in time, police have still not found the girls, right? So could they be alive? Everybody's hoping that these girls are alive they're going to find them until 13 days later. August 17th, a 48-year-old gamekeeper found the mutilated bodies of these two girls in a ditch. It's about 40 miles away from Solm. And I think this shattered the town and the surrounding areas. They had been holding out Gibbs so hard with so much hope that they would find these girls alive. So this went from missing kids, a potential kidnapping.

Yeah, to a double murder. Yeah. So obviously now you know these girls were murdered. And Solm isn't a large town, right? This is a quiet little place where things like this do not happen. Little girls are not murdered. And maybe it's the reason why they're allowed to walk to the candy store or take the bus from, you know, one place to another. Right.

But some things happened, right? during the investigation. We talked about them going to question. Ian, Ian also kind of inserted himself. He had questions for police, specifically like forensic type questions, DNA.

How long does it take to get DNA evidence analyzed? Not good things to ask. No. You are being questioned about something like this. No, Google that shit. Don't go ask the police when they've come already to question you about these two girls. So police conduct this rigorous search of the girls' school.

And it was there that they found the burned remains of the matching football shirts that I talked about. Strange place to find them at their school. Yeah. Along with Ian asking these strange questions about DNA evidence and forensics and things like that, he also put himself into the investigation before the girls were. found offering to join the search, to find the girls. And you know, we've talked about it. This is something that killers often do. They want to be connected. They want to know what's going on. And one of the easiest ways to do that is to join in the activities. Insert yourself into

the functions. Exactly. We've seen that a few times. Just days before these girls are found, police put it together and they finally figure out that Ian Huntley had something to do with the murders of of these two girls and he's arrested just prior to them finding the girl's bodies and you have to imagine what people were thinking in this small town right no bad enough that they found these girls they're dead but then it comes out that they weren't snatched up by a stranger no the police is saying that they were murdered by somebody hired by the school, essentially a member of the school. Exactly. That could see these girls every day. Sure. Inventory. I hate to say that, but an inventory of young girls for his choosing. And this is exactly why the vetting process to

work at a school is so strenuous and it has to be. Right. You can't have a record of of anything to do with being inappropriate with children. You can't really have a record of anything. But that's the situation that's going to come up here and why everybody's going to take flack from school officials all the way to the police. And we'll get into that a little bit later. So they're questioning Ian Huntley. And at first, he said he was innocent, right?

As most people do, he's working very hard to convinced the officers of that fact so hard that it was said Gibbs he was foaming at the mouth he was crying nonstop he couldn't they couldn't stop him from crying just hysterical he was hysterical the few words that he was able to get out they didn't make any sense it's gibberish well i guess the one course he did do good in school before he dropped out was probably drama club probably probably because he's definitely playing it up. He either, so, okay, so he's either playing it up, as you say, or he's trying so hard to be convincing that he's losing his freaking mind.

Yeah. And he can't keep it together. So one or the other. But like I said, you know, he denied any wrongdoing, denied the fact that he knew anything about the two girls disappearing. But after he was arrested. He decided to change his story from, I don't know anything about it, to the girls came up to him that day. Holly had a bloody nose.

So he invited them into the house where he was going to, you know, help Holly with this bloody nose. Somehow Gibbs, she fell into the bathtub and drowned. Oh, so magically there was, the bathtub was filled of water already. Yes. And she slipped, whatever. Okay. She drowned. Then because of that, Jessica started screaming. He had to stop her screaming and ended up suffocating her. So he's gone from, I don't know anything about it to, I saw him that day. They died, but it was all one big, huge accident. Big misunderstanding. Yeah. Everything. Now, obviously this is ridiculous. the police thought it was ridiculous. When they got Ian Huntley into court, the police alleged the chain of events this way. So the girls are walking.

They pass Ian Huntley's house. At that point, he's outside brushing his dog, which I think he even said in the interview, when he sees the girls, they see the dog. They also see Ian Huntley a man that they're familiar with from school. Sure. This is not a complete stranger.

This is the caretaker of the school that they go to. They've seen this guy. He's got a cute dog outside. They're going to go up and say, hey. I want to pet your dog. Yes. I mean, how many kids would do that? So I mentioned, you, he's the caretaker at the school.

But he's also involved with one of their teachers slash aides or whatever she was at the school. She was some type of teacher or classroom aide. How much of a. need is it in in these girls' minds to be cautious, to be worried about their safety when they're in the presence of these people that they view as trustworthy. Trustworthy, exactly. So Ian invites them into the house, likely, according to the prosecution, on the pretense of them seeing Maxine, their teacher, their aid. And they continue their theory by saying Ian lured them into the house where he said Maxine was taking a bath.

And instead, he kills Holly first. And then in an attempt to stop Jessica from calling her mom, he strangles her to death. Police believe this happened at around 6.46 p.m. Because that's the time that Jessica's phone was switched off. Okay. That's logical. That is very logical. But what is the reason for the murders?

I mean, this is something that they can't get out of Ian Huntley. And I'm not sure that we will ever truly know. Police believe, and I tend to believe this as well, that Ian tried to initiate some type of sexual contact with these young girls. It went horribly wrong inside the house. They were buffed him. They said that they were going to call their parents. They were going to tell this person.

that person and he felt like at that point he had to kill them. That seems very logical to me, given the fact that we talked about his predilection to young girls. Yeah. It's proven. So again, to me, that makes very logical sense. Not the fact that he would kill them, but that he would think he had to. That he had to. Because if he doesn't, what's going to happen, gives. It's not good. They're going to tell their parents and his old world's going to crumble. Sure. Everything that he's built up will be gone. Police also stated that Ian was in a jealous rage at the time the girls walked by because apparently he had gotten into a fight over the phone with Maxine. He thought that she was cheating on him because obviously she's not at the house, right? She's somewhere else.

Right. And it wasn't long before these two little girls. girls happened to walk up to the house that Ian had slammed the phone down on Maxine in a rage and then went outside. So at this point, he's freaking out. He's killed two young girls and has got to do something with these bodies. Police believe that this is the first time that he's ever killed. Now, he's a bad guy. He's done a bunch of horrible things. Right. He just never went to this extent that that we know of. Yeah. We believe that. this is the first time that he's killed. And if that's the case, he's not a master killer, right?

He has all this adrenaline. He's probably just hyper, unsure about what to do. So at a certain point, he calls Maxine and tells her what he's done. He also told her that if the police find out that he was alone that night and they look into his past history, he's going to be suspect number one. Hence the alibi. Hence the alibi. But really Gibbs, this is another part of the case that baffles me.

Why would Maxine offer up this alibi for Ian knowing that he has killed two 10-year-old girls? Why would she cover for him? So the question is, did she know? Or did she think she was giving an alibi for something else and not murder? I think on Maxine's part, she's going to say, nope, didn't know, right? He never told me he murdered two girls. He just said something bad had happened.

He needed an alibi. I still think as a woman or a man in a relationship, I'm going to need a little bit more explanation than that to offer up this alibi as to why you would even need an alibi. Right. Something don't seem right, does it? Now, I think what police content is. is that she knew. But she didn't want, just like Ian didn't want, to lose this life that at still a fairly young age, they had built. So she agreed to cover for him and lie. Ian ended up disposing

of the girl's bodies at an airstrip, not that far away. It was one that he was familiar with. I mentioned it early on. He had a hobby of going to the airstrips. and watching the Jets. One thing that did come out, in an effort to protect himself, Ian Huntley bought new tires for the car that he used to dump the girl's bodies just in case there was any tire marks, right,

left behind by his, I guess, what was a Ford Fiesta? Oh, Ford Fiesta. Yeah. Arriba, Arriba, no. They want to make you think that's a party. That is not a party. anybody that's had a Ford Fiesta or has driven a Ford Fiesta, that is the furthest thing from a party that you can ever have. Especially if it's more than two people.

Yeah. If you got more than two people. Yeah. If they're all guys, you're really not the type of party you want to have in there. For some reason, I feel like that's the kind of part. You had a lot of those type of parties for some reason. Where the darn windows wouldn't come down? Yeah.

Where you're shoved in there, like sardines. Yeah. I call it a Cheech and Chong party. party. One of those type of, yeah. But anyway, you know, apologies to those out there still driving a Ford Fiesta, but... Right now someone's like, son of a... I'm not driving something cool. No, you are not. Yeah, they thought it. They thought they were. They thought this is, they were happy.

We lost them as a listener at this point. That's all right. That's all right. Hey, sometimes, man, you just got to tell the truth. Yeah, yeah, Ford Fiesta, man. I mean, thank goodness you're getting great gas mileage. No, you need to trade that in and get a new whip right now. And one thing I think that is, is important to talk about Gibbs. The bodies were not found for some time. And because of the way that they were found, it's not known. They couldn't tell whether or not Ian Huntley raped these two young girls.

But when you look at his past, one could make the assumption that it was very likely that he did. Yeah, I would think most people would have thought. And I hate to say that. Yeah, I do too. But I mean, you think there probably was some form of sexual assault. involved. Yeah. I hate to think of that, but that's his past.

So he's at trial. They're laying, you know, out all the evidence. This trial takes a while. I think Ian Huntley realized that he was not getting out of this. And he actually attempted to take his own life. Yeah, he's a little wimpy there, wasn't it? Yeah. I don't want to face the truth and deal with.

Exactly. Let me try to do my own thing here. You know, he took a bunch of antidepressants. It was said that they were hit. and in tea bags. Yeah. Which is strange. Are you going to swallow the tea bags?

Or he was keeping them in the tea bags, took them out and then swallowed them. To hide them. He didn't swallow the tea bags. Yeah. Okay. But I guess if you're over in England, probably everybody has tea bags in their cell, right? A lot of tea bagging going on there. A lot of tea bagging in England.

Yeah. That might be one of the funniest things you've ever said. All right. I got to compose myself. Yeah. But that's what happened. Yeah. You know, he survived.

And I think one of the things that really, you know, comes out in the trial is that what's this guy's mental state? You know, I think his side was saying he's not right. Even to the point that, you know, he's probably insane. A determination was made that even though it was clear that he had made attempts to appear insane, they had no doubt that at the time of the murder, he was both physically and. and mentally sound. And therefore, if he was found guilty, he carried out the murder totally aware of his actions. That's what they said.

So once that was decided, essentially that left Ian Huntley facing life imprisonment if a jury could be convinced of his guilt. Because I thought what was interesting in the trial was what his defense did. They conceded, right, that he disposed of the girl's bodies. They conceded that they were,

in his house when they died, I guess they had to because of all the evidence, fiber evidence, everything that was submitted at trial pretty much conclusively proved that those girls were in that house. So the defense went with the fact that, yeah, okay, we're conceding they were in the house, but we're claiming that Holly accidentally fell in the bath and drowned. And Jessica Chapman was so distressed by what she saw, she started screaming. Ian Huntley tried to restrain her, and in doing so accidentally suffocated her. Do you think, you know, as a defense attorney, when you're finally, all right, I got to represent you. Now, what did you tell the police? And, you know, he says, well, I told her, you know, that they fell in the bathtub, I restrained. I mean,

do you think a defense attorney's like, man, how am I going to? to spin this and make it sound as believable as possible. I think so. I mean, I just think it's a stories that you could hear from some defense attorneys, the things that they have to deal with and try to put a spin on it. I think you could write a book on some of these. No, I think you're absolutely right. Fascinating. Yeah. What I believe is they sit at home thinking exactly what you just said. This is what I have to work with. Yeah. This guy says he's innocent. It's my job to, defend him, but this is what I have to work with. Yeah. Yeah, this is it. I have to present this. I can't make shit up. No. This is what I, this is what I have to work with. And my thought is, there's,

there would be some sleepless nights thinking, you know, how am I going to polish this turd? There's just, there's not much I can do. No. It is, right? It is what it is. I'm going to try my best because that's my job. The little lipstick on it. The lipstick on the pig. polishing of the turd, whatever you want to call it. I just think about, clearly he had a fascination with younger girls. There's no doubt. So is it because he had this fascination for younger girls at an early age as he grew older, but the fascination never changed?

And somehow in mentally, it gets locked in. I don't know if there's like a condition of that. I just don't understand because I know, like if I saw a 15-year-old girl, I'd see a 15-year-old girl. I don't see anything more than a 15 year old girl, but for him, he's clearly seeing something more. Well, he's sexualizing. Yes. These, these girls who are at an age where they should absolutely not be thought of in that way. So I just wonder how that mind ticks like that. But I think, I think you're right. I mean, I think he, it's like he felt that way from, 16, 17, 18. Right. Now he's, you know, 10 plus years later at 28, that never went away.

It's not like, it's not like his ideal woman or, what's the word I'm trying to, his, his ideal person aged 10 years. Right. With him. I think you're right. He's 28, but his ideal fantasy is still sickly in the 13, 14, 14, year old range. And unfortunately, these girls were even younger. Yeah. 10 years old. Now, it wasn't just Ian that was charged. Maxine was charged as well with conspiring to pervert the course of justice and two counts of assisting an offender.

And the prosecution alleged at trial that Maxine made a quote, cold rational decision to lie for him to protect her own future. We kind of touched on it a little bit. During court, she said that if she had known that he murdered the girls, she would never have lied to protect him. So it wasn't an issue of whether she lied. She admitted that she lied. It was whether or not she knew that he murdered these two girls. In December of 2003, it took a jury less than 18 hours to sentence Ian Huntley to two consecutive life terms in prison. Maxine was sentenced to three years for her role in the cover up of the events.

And it was said that, you know, when Ian was sentenced, he showed no emotion whatsoever. You know, a lot of people viewed that as, you know, a sign that he was a true psychopath or sociopath. What was really strange is just a day after he was convicted. The 2003 Criminal Justice Act came into force, which kind of changed the sentencing in a big way in England. And a couple of years after that, his life sentences were actually reduced to a 40-year sentence. And it was at that point that Ian said that he promised he would never try to get parole out of respect for the parents. So now he's Mr. Nice Guy Gibbs all of a sudden. Sure. Playing that up. I mean, a monster is a monster, you know, and he's a monster.

100%. 100%. Maxine's mother, Shirley Cap was sentenced to six months for intimidating a witness during the trial. Oh, wow. And I guess this woman told the police that she saw Maxine crying and she saw Ian looking in the trunk of a car

outside of Maxine's mother's Shirley's house shortly after the girls went missing. This was her statement. But she was threatened, according to police, by this Shirley Cap and this woman decided to retract her statement and she refused to testify in court. Now, I don't know that it hurt the case overall, but potentially it could have. Potentially.

Maxine only served half of her sentence and was released. I mean, I think she was out, you know, pretty quickly. Yeah. She had already served time right before the trial even happened. Yeah, I was say during the during and before. And she only got three years. So I don't think she did it a lot of time after the sentence, but she had to take on a new identity. There was so much publicity around this case that it was thought her walking around as Maxine Carr would essentially be a death sentence. Somebody was going to come after her. Wouldn't bode well. No, because she played a part. I'll call it that. You know, what that part was is a little open to, you know, for debate, but played.

a part in the murder of these two young 10-year-old girls that gripped the nation. I don't think there's any any part of this that would ever be understandable to anybody. No. You know? And you know somebody out there upset about what happened would likely maybe take a shot at her. So while in prison, Ian Huntley, he got, he got roughed up pretty, pretty good. You know, this was, I guess, you know, you go back to him. his days in school of these boys taking his legs and ramming his genitals into the poles.

It was the equivalent of that, but he's not dealing with 10, 12, 13 year old kids in the schoolyard. These are convicted felons. Crown ass men. Yeah, they're not just going to take your, your junk and ram it into a pole. It was said that an inmate got him to release a 90-minute confess. Fesion tape. And I'm sure that was done under quite a bit of coercion. He tried to take his own life a couple of times with pills. In September of 2005, somebody threw scalding hot, boiling water on him. And it was right before he was supposed to attend this sentencing hearing. So this guy's just getting the shit kicked out of him. He's getting beat up. I mean, it's harsh, but is anybody

going to cry a tear for Ian Huntley? I don't think so. No, we know how that goes down in prison. If you mess with kids, man, it's, I think anything can happen. And I think the, I'm going to say this, not that the guards would condone it, but maybe they don't turn so fast. Oh, I think in some of the things I read, it was, that was the, that was what was levied. Yeah. That the guards were basically have at them. Yeah.

And whatever happens happens. Yeah, I'm going in into the men's room for a little bit, guys. Something happens. I guess it happens. Yeah, you're talking about a guy that, you know, could kill two innocent children and potentially sexually assault them. We can't, we don't know that for sure. But we do know is he sexually, he sexually assaulted a lot of other children. Right.

All of that, right. Hurting children, murdering, sexually assaulting them. it's it's not going to put you in a place of honor in prison. We know that. In 2010, an inmate slashed his throat. Yeah, but it doesn't kill him. No. He survives.

He's had a rough life at this point. His genitals are mush. His face is a mess from scalding water. His throat has been slashed. And every time he'll sue the prison saying, you didn't protect me. Exactly. You need a pay up. This is why I get so ticked, you know.

What are prison guards supposed to do? They can't protect every single person at every second of the day. I mean, how many guards are in there versus how many inmates and, and I don't know. I did. That does really tick me off because everybody there knows who this guy is and everybody wants to get a piece of him. I know. But like you said, every time he files a claim or suits against the prison to the point

that the person has to finally give him somebody to personally protect him. They do? Yeah, he gets his, I don't say bodyguard, but I guess so. He gets his own guard. Yeah, like in three o'clock high. Three o'clock high. So one interesting point, and this was a rumor, I don't know, the veracity of this, but obviously Ian Huntley was hated.

It was said that he did have one friend in lockup, and that was none other than Peter Sutcliffe, the Yorkshire Ripper. Well, what they do? Sit around and tell stories and... Probably. You know, who's better, who's greater at doing this or that? Probably. My assumption is they're reveling in their stories.

They're watching each other's backs, trying not to get shanked. There's a lot of stuff going on there. Maybe Peter said, I want to hang out with you because you have that guy in the suit. Maybe. With the baton protecting you, maybe he'll protect me. These guys don't like me either. But there's a lot of things that have happened with, Ian Huntley in prison. And I'll just run through some of them. You know, it said that he joined a Muslim

gang to try to get, you know, more protection. But they forced him out. And the reason it was said that they forced him out was because Ian Huntley at a certain point decided that he wanted a sex change. He started going by the name Nicola. He requested a blonde wig, a tweed dress. You know, he wanted to wear this his cell while he was alone, he started to wear makeup. He even requested Gibbs to move to a women's prison so that he could fit in with this desire to have a sex change. But obviously, what are people going to say? Why would you do this? Right. Because you got 250 pound men beaten the ever-living, you know, what out of day? Day in, day out. Yeah, maybe I should get over to the women's prison. I might be a little safer. And we know Ian Huntley's a pretty good liar, right? Yeah. I mean, look, all you have to do is

put on a wig, put on a dress, put a little makeup on. Hey, that's a whole lot better in getting your your ass handed to you every day. Every day. He's a liar. He's a manipulator. Now, if he really did identify as female, that would be one thing. But I don't believe him. And part of the reason why I don't believe him is that he has yet to make a formal request for this sex change operation. Because it's a big deal. It's a big deal. You just can't say, I want to have a sex change and move me, right? Yeah, I think for people that identify, you know, that desire is so strong that they go through

with it. If you're trying to do something like that just to get out of a situation, I don't know. No, there's a lot to that. It's not like an easy thing to do physically, emotionally. It has to be hard. Then you talk about Ian Huntley's daughter. Remember, he had a daughter at a fairly young age with a woman that was only what, gives 15. Yeah. So his daughter is somewhat grown up now. And apparently she discovered who her father was and what he had really done on the internet. Yeah, that'd be bizarre, man. Researching information for a school project. So imagine that. You're on Google. You're trying to get your schoolwork done.

Something comes up that shows you your dad is Ian Huntley. And you read and you find out what Ian Huntley did. I think that would be somewhat traumatizing for a young person. And again, I don't know much else about her or. how she's doing. I hope she's doing well. You know, we always talk about victims. Obviously, the two 10-year-old girls in this case, victims, their families, victims. But Ian Huntley's daughter is a victim in this case. You know, is she going to be branded? My assumption is not because she's probably not using that name. She's got a different name, hopefully. Probably just pretty much

tried to forget everything she learned about them and said, I'm just moving forward with who I am. And the people I'm with now. And hopefully nobody would hold that against her because of what her dad did. But you and I talk about this all the time, right? How crimes could have been prevented. I think this one's no different. There was a full-scale investigation into the failures of the police and the vetting agencies that allowed Huntley to get as far as he did.

And it didn't go well. It didn't come back well. It led to the suspension in early retirement. of the chief of police in the area. There was considerable concern, you know, about how this police investigation was handled into these murders. It took almost two weeks before the police became aware of the previous sexual allegations that we talked about against Ian Huntley.

And despite the fact that he himself put him as the, basically the last person to ever see these two children alive, his story was not really checked out all that much, you know, during the early part of the investigation. So people had a real problem. And on top of that, how'd this guy get a job at the school? Yeah. With, you know, some of the things that he had on his record. I think it opened up, you know, eyes to a lot of people of, you know, either how we should do things or how we should make changes, you know, moving forward. But that's it. That's it, Gives.

That's the story of Ian Huntley. Really one of the biggest POSs, pedophiles in England. He was a monster. He really was for a person that did not kill until he was 28. Did a lot of horrible things before that. But as far as we know, didn't kill until he was 28 years old. I think this leads into one of the big questions for me. And it's how many more people would Ian Huntley have killed, sexually assaulted, or hurt if he was not put away for this one?

Because you and I have seen, right, in doing the research, that first kill, the first murder or murders oftentimes kind of kickstarts somebody. They feel a certain way from doing that. And they got away with it. Well, I think if he didn't get caught, he would have ran through that school until he either got caught or he ran off. Yeah, either through the school or, you know, I do think he was somewhat intelligent. Maybe he would have gone to other schools. But I believe he would have targeted many more young, young girls. And luckily, he was.

stopped. Unfortunately, Holly and Jessica lost their lives. I feel for them and their parents. Yeah. No, I do too. All right, Gives, we have some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's hear him. Hi, Mike and give you. This is Morgan from Minnesota. Just wanted to say that I just recently just started listening to the podcast and I love it. It's one of my favorites. But I had a suggestion. I don't know if it's weird to have like a favorite true crime case, but one one I was really interested in is Randall Woodfield or the I-5 killer. Yeah. So if you don't know about that one, you should definitely look into that and have a good day.

So the first thing I'll say is it's not strange. You know, when you're in this true crime community to say that, you know, this story is my favorite. It's not strange. And I think people know you're not saying I like what this person did. No. You're not saying that at all. What you're saying is all the details around this story. Right.

Are fascinating to me. Yeah, you're intrigued. Yeah, and people understand that. And the second thing I'll say is we definitely have Woodfield on the list. We do. Hey, Mike. Hey, Gives. My name is Chloe.

I'm a fashion student in Georgia and I'm a huge true crime fan, but I just recently found your podcast. and I'm already almost finished with every episode. But I just wanted to say thank you so much with all of the time that I spend listening to your podcast in the hours of my life that it eats up. I know that you spend twice as much, at least that working to make these amazing podcasts and tell the stories. And you do such a great job. And I just wanted to say thank you, especially as a young woman. You know, it's scary these days for us. you guys really just highlight some of the horrors of the world today.

But I feel like for me and my friends, we listen to you and we learn from your stories. We learn sort of to watch our own back when we go out. And I think that really all of these podcasts are helping us. And you guys are just doing an incredible thing. And you're so funny. You crack me up like nothing else. And Mike your voice, it's just so soothing. So you guys are amazing.

I am a new fan, but I love fans for life. So thank you so much. And I'm going to keep trying to keep my own time taken. And if I can't, maybe you guys can cover my story. Who knows? All right. Well, peace out of you guys. Love it.

Well, just keep your head on a swivel and you won't have to worry. Exactly. Exactly. We don't want to have to cover your story. You better get you a true crime all time whistle. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. For campus. Yeah.

But we appreciate that. We really do. Hey, guys. This is Greg Gad Boy. It's calling from the lovely Maine. You can also pronounce it Gadbois. But I just want to thank you guys for giving me a shout out. I've been waiting and waiting.

Oh, God, that was the best thing I've ever heard. I work as a mailman, and I've been binging you guys, both theories, every day, multiple episodes. And I just got to say, I love you guys. You guys are absolutely the best. And people look at me strange when I start dying, laughing, just from some of the things you guys go back and forth with. that might cringe a couple times listening, but you guys are definitely awesome. Thank you for saving my days. All right.

We love Greg. He's a supporter on Patreon. It's awesome. Big friend of the show. Appreciate that. Hi, Mike and Gabi. My name's Hannah. I'm from loving to say that you guys have a great podcast.

I listen to it almost every day at work. It really makes a day go by a lot faster. This is something that both me and my dad really love. We love to listen to True Crime Podcasts together. And it's fun of it. today so I wanted to call and hopefully he'll hear this on a later episode and um just want to say happy father's day dad and yeah you guys are awesome thanks for having something that me and my dad can bond over and uh you guys are great keep your own time taken thanks bye bye bye hi mike and mic and give me it's hannah

from leban and organ again um i just realized on the last boyfriend i didn't leave my dad's name um his name is mark and we've been listening to your podcast for a long time it's something that we've bond over and something that we really like to do with two along card drugs together and anyway it's just You guys are great. Keep around time taken. Bye-bye. So, hey, Mark. Happy Father's Day. Just a few weeks late. Yeah, yeah. It shows you how far behind we are. But, you know, I still wanted to play that because, you know, it gets to me. Sure, it does. You know, having daughters and you have a daughter. Yeah. The fact that a daughter feels that way about her father and is willing to call in.

Yeah. It's just, you know, it kind of tugs at your heartstrings a little bit. That's awesome. You always said, you know, family that listens. Is the teacat together? Stays together. Yeah. So that's awesome. And again, happy Father's Day, Mark. All right.

Gives mailbag real quick. Our friend Scott sent in a Harley chip from Prince George, B.C. Prince George. Love that. Okay. And her friend Lottie. Lottie. Sent me a bunch of Cadbury Curly Whirley bars for my birthday.

Why aren't they down here where I can see them? They're right here, but she didn't send them for you this time. But they're where you know I can't get to. And there's like a whole security. even if we were on the video like we did, if they would pan down the video, they would see this security breach area that I know I can't get into to get them. So. Now, what she did say is that she's bringing your present to Chicago. Oh, that was sweet. Yeah. Yeah. Well, my birthday is just the day or two before. Right. So that makes

sense. So, and Lottie knows. Lottie knows everybody's birthday. She knows when people are having surgery. She's on top of it. She is very good at that. All right. So that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.