True Crime All The Time - Joseph Naso "The Double Initial Killer"

Episode Date: January 28, 2019

In 2010, 76-year-old Joseph Naso was busted on a probation violation. During a search of his home, investigators uncovered boxes filled with incriminating pictures and journals. Also uncovered was what authorities have called Naso's "List of 10". All of this information pointed to the fact that Joe Naso had been a serial rapist for over 40 years and murdered a number of women in California over several decades.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the bizarre life and crimes of Joe Naso. He was a photographer with a penchant for women who wore nylons and heels. He used his photography, in some cases, to lure his victims. The majority of his murder victims had the same initial in both their first and last name. The pictures and journals found in his home suggest that he had many more victims than he was prosecuted for.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.comSponors:Warby Parker - Get great prescription glasses at a great price. Visit warbyparker.com/tcatt to check out their home try-on program. Zip Recruiter - The smartest way to hire! Try it for free at ziprecruiter.com/tcattSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 115 of the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing great. Can you believe 115 episodes? No, man, I can't. 1-1-5. It's staggering. When you put that together with unsolved, you know, it's 210 episodes, give or take. That's a lot of episodes. That is a lot of episodes, man. So how you've been? I'm in good. That's good. I love to hear it.

Doing well. I know you and I are both struggling with the weather. It's 40 degrees. It's negative 10. I don't know what in the heck is going on. My body's not sure what it wants to do. You don't have a winter coat, I hear. I don't have a winter coat.

I'm braving. I'm toughing it out. Hey, everybody, give he's too cheap to buy a winter coat. I know. He needs help. No, I'm just messing. We got a jam-packed episode. We do.

We also have received a lot of new Patreon support, especially this month, which is awesome. It's beautiful. But what it is done is it's put us a little even further behind than what we already were. So we're a good three weeks, maybe more on name. So just putting that out there. I know sometimes people are wondering why they haven't heard their name, but you know, look back at when you signed up and it's going to be at least three weeks.

So we had Kay Peek. Hey, Kay. Amanda Scruggs. And Amanda, she's a good friend. Yep, big on social media. Caitlin Ray. Hey, Caitlin. Chelsea Samson. Ooh, thank you.

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Just Mike. Just Mike. That's all you need. Joan Elton. Hey, Joan. Kathleen Richie. Hey, thanks, Kathleen. Mitch Lones.

Hey, Mitch. Remember Mitch? Oh, yeah. The birthday boy. Yeah, thank you. He, you know, became a Patreon after we gave him that shout out. And then he just upped it to the highest level. So appreciate that.

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That is a kick-ass name. Maximillianos. And he jumped out at our highest level. He doesn't even need the last name. He gets by just with the first name. Yeah, you could. You could just go share with that name. Apple fatty.

All right, Apple. I don't know exactly what that means, but it makes me chuckle a little. Apple bottom, fatty, I don't know. I'm just rolling with apple bottom. I don't know. Jeans. Yeah, whatever. Something.

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Yeah, that's all you need with the name. Lindsay Nielsen. Hey, Lindsay. Jerry Mangori. Marjorie. Sarah Mud. Hey, thanks, Sarah. Natalie Sitzler.

Ooh, Natalie. And Molly Villa Real Real. Oh, thank you. So a lot of great support. Let's go back into the Volkibs. This week, we selected Drea Ronell. Thanks, Drea. Been with this a long time.

And we appreciate that. New support, the continued support. We had a lot of PayPal support as well. Allison Thompson, our friend. Oh, yeah, good buddy Allison. We had dinner with at CrimeCon. She gave us a real nice PayPal donation. Thank you.

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Yeah, thank you. Karen Washington. Hey, thanks, Karen. And Jennifer Wormuth. Oh, Wormuth is out there. So we appreciate everyone. It's a big help to us, allows us to keep putting out these podcasts. Don't forget, if you're going to CrimeCon, crime all the time, 19.

Yeah. That's our code. If you're signing up, I think you get 10% off the standard badge price if you use our code. Take it. So, yeah. When we're seeing it out. We'll have a meetup. We'll do the meetup.

There's a lot of people going. I've heard from a lot of people. Meetup might be a little bit bigger. You go live like you did last time? That was fun. Yeah. Well, I think you're going live. I know you're going live.

have a choice. Now, we have a new episode of true crime all time unsolved out right now. And it's on Monique Daniels. Yeah. This one's pretty mysterious. You know, it's the disappearance of Monique. They're not really sure what happened to her. But then you get into kind of a family dynamic Gibbs. People start looking at the family. It just, it's a, it's a very interesting case. Well, I found it really intriguing. I mean, I really got pulled into it when I was research. in it. So I think people like it. Check that out. But we've got to jump right in. I'm telling you, we are jam, jam packed. In this episode, we're talking about Joseph Naso, the double initial killer, the alphabet killer, the double monogram killer. Man, we just love as a society to give monikers to serial killer. We do, man. And it's almost like outlets are jumping over each other to outdo the other one.

We can't even just stick with one half the time. Somebody's got to come out with another one. Then somebody else comes out with another one. Before you know it, this killer's got four or five different nicknames. Nicknames, yeah. The only things you see that in is either serial killers or superheroes. That's it. You know, pretty much polar opposites.

Yeah. In NASO, we're talking about a serial rapist turned serial killer. But this guy got away with his crimes for many years. We know he killed in the 70s. We know he killed in the 90s. But what really fascinated me about this case is, you know, NASO kept a diary, he kept journals, he kept pictures. He kept a lot of stuff. Stretching all the way back to the 1950s that indicate he was a serial predator for more than 40 years. And could be extremely prolific. They have no. idea what the true number is of crimes that this guy's committed. Yeah, I just found it amazing

that he lasted as long as he did. And police are going to get a hold of this information, the diary, the journals, and we're going to talk about, you know, some of the entries throughout the episode. But again, 40 years or more worth of crimes here. Who knows how many women, because that's who Neso targeted. did, how many women this guy may have victimized over the years? It's like a hobby for him. Sounds like he needed to, like, instead go to like Michaels and get art, art supplies and do some art therapy.

Maybe he should have taken up crochet or something like that. Yeah. Now, all of the kind of nicknames, monikers that we mentioned, they all center around the fact that most of his murder victims, their first and last name started with the same letter. He was a photographer. And like we've talked about in many cases, use that to his advantage in luring his victims. And this guy had a very specific victim type.

Number one, he had a thing for nylons. He had a thing for heels. Okay. That was his big turn on. You want to say it that way. Well, he would like the guy that we did up in Canada. I think NACO and Colonel Williams. would have got along very well.

Been a cute little couple. Yeah, they'd have been a cute couple. Yeah. There's quite an age gap, but I think they could have made it work. Yeah, it's not always about the age. But for a couple of reasons, this is a strange story. Number one, just how much time it spans. You have Joe's age.

I mentioned all of the things, his diaries, journals, his photos. So because of that, we're going to tell this story a little differently. We're not going to start with back. background like we normally do, we're going to start this story off when Joe Nassau hits police radar. We're going to mix it up a little. You okay with that? I'm good with that. All righty. It was April 2010. 76 year old Joe Nassau was on probation for a 2008 conviction for theft. He's 76 years old. Yeah. At the age of 74, he was convicted. It wasn't really slowing down a whole lot, I don't think. In 2010, Joe lived just north of Reno, Nevada.

Now, as part of that conviction in 2008, probation officers had the ability to make surprise inspections at his home. And they chose to do that because they started to get some information that NASO was selling ammunition at flea markets. Obviously a clear violation of his parole. and it was at one of these surprise inspections in April 2010 that officers made a discovery at his home that sent this whole story into motion. So they go into his house. The first thing they encountered was what was described as just a filthy, filthy house. Just nasty and dirty.

It looked like an episode of hoarders. There was junk everywhere. apparently Gibbs, there was rotting meat, just laying around on kitchen counters. Okay. Now, I get maybe not being the cleanest person in the world, not wanting to pick up after yourself, but let's not leave rotted meat out, can we? I get it. Yeah.

I mean, you know, if you're not going to do the everyday cleaning, you know, maybe you've got a little dust built up here and there. But yeah, like you say, we're all, anything spoiled out on the counter. My wife gets on me when I don't put my coat up, when I leave my shoes out. She gets on me. Yeah, she does. She gets on you too. But no way am I going to live where I can't walk through the house.

No way am I going to want to smell, you know, just rancid, rotted meat. Yeah, I don't want to open the fridge either and have something hit me in the face like. No, because you do eat here once a week. I know. Got that too. Always, when did you get this? When did you buy that hamburger? Okay.

They found ammunition and guns. And that was it, right? That's all they needed to find. Probation violation. Joe Neso is off to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200. It's over.

Probation violations, they happen all the time, right? Some people might say those types of things are fairly routine. But what they found was just the beginning. Yeah. Because as they're walking through the house, they start uncovering bankers boxes full of pictures and notebooks. They found over $150,000 in cash, a whole bunch of newspaper clippings, women's driver's licenses, passports, things, you know, ID cards, things like that.

Things a normal person wouldn't have. Shouldn't have. It's starting to peak their interest. And when I say photos, we're talking. We're talking about thousands and thousands of photographs of women. I mentioned he was a photographer. Yeah. But I've seen the number maybe in the 5,000 range.

That's pretty high. Pretty high. Even for somebody at his age. Now, some of the women wore clothed in these pictures, but most of them weren't. Right. Let me guess they were wearing nylons and heels. Well, a lot of them were. Some of them were wearing lingerie.

some of them were, you know, buck naked. But what really kind of sent up the big time red flags was that there were women, quite a few in these photographs that appeared as though they were either unconscious or dead. From looking at it, they, you know, real quick, they couldn't really tell. And the age ranges of these women, I guess Gibbs, they spanned quite a bit. All the way from like 20s to 80s. That's a big gap, man. It's a big range.

Well, then also it depends on when he took the pictures, right? Because some of these pictures could have been when he was much younger. And so his audience was younger. And now his audience is a little bit older, you know. But then again, you know, 70-some-year-old photographer could get a 20, 30-year-old to the post form. It just depends on how naive they are. and if he's offering cash. But then you get to the notebooks,

and these are filled with Nesos writings. I mean, this guy was like the Stephen King of journaling. Well, that's a big name, man. You know how many books Stephen King writes. I think he writes one about every month. It's almost like that other guy that writes all the time. Oh, you mean that other guy? Yeah.

What's his name? Yeah. His damn commercials are on all the time. He's always writing another book. Like, how many books? Can you write? He's got commercials? Yeah, he's always advertising his book.

Patterson, James Patterson. He's always got a book coming out. He does write quite a bit, but nobody's like Stephen King. He's successful, Stephen King. Yeah, but he's very prolific. Yeah. Now, I'm not saying that NASO was, you know, like Kevin Spacey's character in Seven. Remember that gives with all his journals.

But I don't know if he was that far off. You always wonder why they keep these journals, you know, knowing that it's just their confidence level, I guess, that they can journal all this stuff thinking that they're never going to get caught. Yeah, I think that's it. But they all do it. I mean, at one level or the other, this is extreme level here. Oh, this is very extreme. But, I mean, we've talked about other ones, you know, that have done it, and they keep their little journal and their little souvenir box of items. and you just wonder why?

Why would you want to ever risk? Because I think the power to relive it is stronger than their concern about somebody finding it. That's the only thing I can think of. Yeah. You know, as police start sifting through these, they realize that Joe Naso had detailed out hundreds and hundreds of sexual assaults. Again, we talked about it.

This spans more than four. years, eventually authorities are going to come out and they're going to refer to some of these journals and writings as kind of his rape diary. That's what they called it. He filled the notebooks with descriptions of how he stalked and sexually assaulted women through the years. And the oldest one they found Gibbs was from 1950. 1950. Wow. He would have only been about 16 years old. That tells you something right there. And then the most recent entries. Now, when I say entries, I'm not talking about when he wrote them down. I'm talking about the description of the actual crime itself. The most recent was from the late 90s, maybe even into the early 2000s. Okay. So again, that's 50 years. That's how you get to that 40, 50 year time frame. But one thing that's interesting about the writing is that police determined that most of them were not written. as they happened, right? He wasn't sitting down as a 16 year old writing out what he had done.

It was almost as if in his 70s he had stopped his crimes. I don't know if he was at some point he thought, you know, he was too old, but that's when he sat down and began to relive everything. And he thought back to his earliest crimes and just kind of kept going through. He didn't do them in order, right? They could tell by looking at the notebooks when he thought of one, he would write it down. So it wasn't like he went. They weren't in chronological. No, they weren't in chronological order.

It was also reported that he had some Herb Baumaster like mannequins. Really? Sure. He would dress them up in hose and lingerie. He would put lipstick on them. In the garage, they found suitcases full of. of mannequin legs that had panty hose, different types of hosery on them, it's pretty far out there. Yeah.

You know, this is the point in the story where if I was Ron Popiel or if I was the sham wow guy. Yeah. I would be saying, but wait. But wait. There's more. There's more. Because there is. Authorities also found what would become known as the list of 10.

And this is really the main reason why I wanted to start the podcast out this way. This list of 10 that Joe Neso wrote down that he either murdered or wanted to murder. Most people think he probably murdered most of these women. We're going to talk about the 10. So this happened in April of 2010. They spent about a year investigating Joe Naso. You have figured it's a lot of shit to go through. A lot of stuff.

Boxes and boxes. of journals that have to be read, pictures that have to be analyzed trying to figure out who they were, this list of 10 trying to investigate that. Just to give you example, there were so many of them, but one said, girl in North Buffalo Woods, she was real pretty, front seat of my car, had to knock her out first, 1958. Wow. I mean, this is the kind of writing that we're talking about. imagine being one of the police officers and just having to sit through and read all, you know, and some of them were very, very graphic. Another one read,

Selena Kansas girl. I followed and met at Fred Astaire Dance Studio. She was gorgeous. Great legs in nylons and heels. Had to rape her in my car on a cold winter night. Snowstorm. Had to. Had to.

Had to rape her in my car. That's what he wrote. Had to. Mm-hmm. But when you look at all these writings and the pictures and you look at everything in totality, it linked Joe Neso conclusively to four unsolved murders in California. Roxene Rogash and Carmen Cologne in the 1970s. And then Tracy Tafoya and Pamela Parsons in the 1990s.

All four of these women, police believe, were on the list of 10. You have to keep in mind. This list is not a bunch of names, right? It's kind of like what I just read, Girl in parking lot. But there was enough description. And we'll talk about in detail when we talk about these four. Tie it into.

Yeah, that they could figure out who he was talking about on some of them. So they go through this year-long investigation. Joe was arrested in April of 2011. And it talked about it up front. very odd that he sought out women that had the same initial for their first and last name. So he's charged with the four murders, but authorities suspected him of committing more murders and many more sexual assaults. They came out and said that Joe Naso's M.O. was to pick up sex workers, sometimes posing as a photographer, take them to a remote area and strangle them. Okay.

They, that's what they believe he did. And the other thing that you have to think about, these murders were cold cases. Some of these went back to the 1970s. They were very, very cold. Police had not been able to solve them. Would they have solved them if they didn't stumble upon this treasure trove of information at Joe Neso's house? Gibbs, I don't know if they would have. I don't think they would have.

Because this is what led them to. to the information that they needed. So they interviewed Joe's neighbors around the area that he was living close to Reno. And the same description came up over and over. He was weird. That's what neighbor said. He didn't socialize. He didn't wave.

He had lived in that neighborhood for about 10 years. And all neighbors really knew about him was that, number one, he drove a black Ford pickup truck. And for some reason, the sheriff was at his house. house quite often. So right now it sounds like you. Yeah, very, very similar to me. I don't wave. I don't socialize.

Got your black pickup truck. I have a black truck. Yeah. And the local police are at my house quite a bit. Yeah. The other thing that neighbors said was that his adult son Charles lived with him for some period of time. But then some years before had moved out and they hadn't seen him.

Now, after Joe was arrested, he received a visit. in jail from his ex-wife and police recorded their conversation and during this conversation Joe tried to get his ex-wife to have their son Charlie go to Joe's house to get some safe deposit keys and his exact quote was I've got things in there that are private oh so ding ding ding police want to know what that is yeah what too and as soon as they hear it well they just go to his house because he had given directions on how to find the keys they just go get the keys open up the safe deposit box and inside they found a whole trove of more pictures IDs drivers licenses all kinds of stuff but these were all of women one in particular was a passport and driver's

license of a woman named sarah dillon her original name was Renee Shapiro, but she changed her last name to Dylan because she loved Bob Dylan. Just like I know there are some people that have changed their last name to Gibson. Sure. Why not? Because of their love of you. Can you? I mean, why would you just want them to stop them? Did I just compare you to Bob Dylan? Yeah, well, I mean Bob to me. Yeah, but Sarah was on her way to a Bob Dylan concert in 1992 when she disappeared. And inside the safe deposit box, they found a handwritten note from NASO with the date of the concert. That was the last date that Sarah Dylan was seen. And this is why I wanted to start this episode out a little differently so that I could talk about

what they found first, talk about the list of 10 because police believe that Sarah Dylan is number three on Nassos list of 10. There's an entry that reads, Girl in Woodland, Nevada County. Police believe that Joe Nassau picked her up hitchhiking and murdered her. Now, he was never charged with her murder, but from all the evidence that they gathered, they believe that she's number three on the list of 10. All right, Gibbs, let's take a quick break to talk about her sponsors. And the first one is Warby Parker, founded with the goal of creating boutique quality eyewear at a revolutionary price point. Every pair is custom fit with anti-reflective polycarbonate prescription lenses.

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Right. So let's go back to the very beginning. Not a lot on NASO's childhood. He was born in 34 in New York. He grew up in the Rochester area of New York. And this is significant because we're going to talk about some murders there later on. He served in the Air Force. But in 1958, at the age of 24, Joe was charged with second degree assault and attempted rape in East Rochester. His accuser was a 21-year-old woman who told authority she met Joe at a dance sometime earlier. But on the night of April 24th, he saw her at a bus stop, pulled over, asked her if she wanted to ride. She said, sure, got in the car. and that's when Joe drove to a park and attacked her.

Now, she got away and turned him in. He was arrested and he eventually pleaded guilty. But what did Neso get, Gibbs? Oh, just probation. Sure. Yeah, he got five years probation. Okay. The judge did give him a two and a half to five year sentence in Attica, no less.

Yeah. Remember that? Attica. Atta. Yeah. But he suspended the sentence. So NACSO's not going to do any time, right? Probation and a suspended sentence.

Now, if he messes up, he's going to Attica. Yeah, but he's got to get caught. Well, I should say that. Yeah, you're right. If he messes up and he gets caught messing up. But Nassau's diary or his journal, whatever you want to call it, has an entry that says Rochester, 1958, picking up a gorgeous chick at a bus stop, headed for the cemetery, and started to kiss and

molest her. I had to force her down and hold her skirt up, her girdle down. It was hard work. It was rough. What are you saying? It was hard work. It was rough to violate her. This guy's something. I'm not kidding you. He's a full-blown narcissist. I don't think there's any doubt about that. But he went on to say, because again, he's right. He's right. this later. To this day, I love her. I wish I could have married her. Wow, how messed up is that? That's warped. Yeah. Yeah, she really enjoyed you violating her, Mr. She would want to marry you. What world are you in? If you're in love with somebody and you would like to marry them, you don't rape them. You don't assault them. You court them. Maybe chocolates, roses, some warm massage oil. You know. I was just going to say open the door for him.

Put on some Barry White. You went in the massage oil. I did. Some Barry White. I mean, I see it up there by your side of your chair all the time. Stay out of my secret room. How many times I can tell you that? I just don't know why it's by your recliner chair.

But I just found that so warped that he would word it that way. And there's going to be a whole bunch of other entries like that. Clearly, his perception and what he has in his mind as a relationship is really messed up. Oh, it is. There's no doubt. But he wanted to marry this, this woman. I think he got charged with rape one other time. But again, no jail time. Police essentially told him, you know what, just leave. Get out of town. Get out of town. Leave the Rochester, New York area. Or we're going to arrest you. I don't know. It's kind of unimaginable to think that's what things were like back then. that, you know, a sexual crime would be treated with such disregard.

Yeah. But I think it was. I think it was, too. I mean, I think you can see a lot of case history back in that time frame and just shake your head a lot that just really wasn't taking that too seriously. No, I really don't believe it was. But one thing's for sure. It was time for Joe to get out of New York.

And he did. He left for California. Joe met and married a woman named Judith. they had a son together named Charlie. I've already talked about his ex-wife and his son. That's them. They lived in the Bay Area of California. And eventually, Joe became what he called a professional photographer.

Yeah. You got some business cars made up. Sure. He said, I'm a professional photographer. Now, I believe he was anything but professional. But apparently he did make some money, taking wedding photos, other types of photos. he also made money by doing some dumpster diving.

I know this is something you like to do, Gibbs, find odds and ends and resell them at flea markets and things like that. Absolutely. I'm giving you a hard time. But a lot of people do that, you know, it's a way to make some money. I saw it every day as a UPS driver. Yeah. People in dumpsters, you know, either digging out things to resell or digging out their dinner.

What they say, one person's trash is another person's, uh, treasure. You got to see the stuff they pull out behind crowers. But Joe apparently had some boosts at various flea markets around the Bay Area, but he still had family back in Rochester. And he would travel back and forth quite frequently between New York and California. It was in the early 70s, three young girls, all with the same initials for their first and last name were found, raped and strangled. You know, this is what is known as the, New York alphabet murders. Absolutely.

It's pretty big unsolved case from the early 70s. So it was 10-year-old Carmen Cologne, disappeared on November 16th, 1971. She was found two days later. Very interesting that one of Joe Nassos' known murder victims later in California had this exact same name. The exact same name? Carmen Cologne, exactly, spelled exactly the same. Well, that is.

I don't think you could say that's a coincidence. Can you say it's a coincidence? I can say it's not a coincidence. Oh, why would you try to say that word? But amazing. It is amazing. That's unbelievable. Yeah, it's almost unbelievable.

But it's true. 11-year-old Michelle Manza disappeared on November 26th, found two days later. 11-year-old Wanda Walkowitz disappeared April 2nd was found the next day. Yeah. I'm not going to get too much into this. You and I might do this case on unsolved, but I mentioned it, right? The New York double initial, the New York alphabet murders. It's got a couple of different names. Safe to say he would line up as a suspect in those. Yeah. Police interviewed hundreds of people in the case. I mean, they interviewed Kenneth Bianchi, who would later become the, you know, one of the hillside stranglers, we profiled him. But they couldn't pin these three murders on

anyone. Now, after 2010, when NASO is arrested and they find all this stuff in his house, investigators in New York, they worked really hard to try to connect him to these unsolved murders. So first of all, you have the double initials that stood out. And the fact that he had family there. They could put him in the area at the time of some of these murders, I believe. But these were also very young girls. And that was not something that in everything they found in his house, there was no indications he was a pedophile. So that was kind of different. Right. And then ultimately, his DNA didn't match DNA that was found on, on some of the victims. But there are still people that believe he had something to do with these murders.

Maybe there was somebody else with him and it's that that person's DNA. Unbelievable coincidence, as you would say. Coincidence. That, you know, he's in the area. These girls all had, you know, the same letters for their first and last names. One of them has the exact same name as one of his later victims. Very strange. It all ties together for me.

His wife is later going to testify at trial that their marriage was horrible. And she's going to do a pretty good job of painting this guy as a monster. But as the marriage was falling apart, they're still married, but it's not good. We're getting into the 1970s. It's known that Joseph Neso is out hunting women. And his first known murder victim was 18-year-old Roxene Rogash. She was five foot two. She had really red hair.

Her body was found in January of 1977, dumped near Lagunitas, California. I don't know if I'm saying that correctly, Gibbs, but that's what I'm going with. I think you got it right. Police believe that Rogash was involved in the sex industry, but this is something that her family has vehemently denied over the years. But police are, you know, they came out and said that they, they came out and said that they had some information about that. She was found strangled with a pair of nylon stockings wrapped around her neck.

And the kicker is that DNA found on both the stockings she was wearing and those wrapped around her neck would later be tied to Joseph Naseau. Police believe that Roxene was number three on the list of 10 with an entry that read girl near Lagunitas. But it's really her case that's going to solidify the state's case against him and all the murders. Right. Hers is the most damning by far.

And we'll get into it a little bit when we talk about the trial. Then you had 22 year old Carmen Cologne. Again, this is the woman that had the exact same name, exact same spelling as the little girl in New York years earlier. She was found in August of 1978 near Port Costa, California. Her body was pretty badly decomposed to the point that it was unidentifiable. She was a known sex worker. Police knew that she had been arrested before.

So they got her booking fingerprints from when she was arrested. Yeah. And that's how they identified her. Now, Carmen was. number two on the list of 10, Nassos entry read, Girl Near Port Costa. So pretty easy for them to figure out. Sure, they can tag that one.

So those are the two known murders during the 1970s committed by Joe Nassau. And we'll touch on it a little bit, Gibbs, but again, I have no idea what this guy's true number is. It could be very, very high. Sexual assaults for sure. Oh, absolutely. My theory is he committed a lot more murders than what they can actually tie him to. Yeah.

No wonder Judith files for divorce. Yeah. You know, in 79. Well, the marriage is shit. Yeah. She says that later on. That's a whole higher level of infidelity what he's doing. Yeah.

I don't think she knows that part. No, you know, but I just think she thinks he's a bastard and I'm getting the heck out of here. You bastard. You bastard. So she files in what, 79 and it's finalized in 1980. And it's around this same time that their son Charlie, he's in his 20s. He's diagnosed with schizophrenia. And it would turn out that Joe Neso would take care of Charlie throughout much of his life.

Yeah. And to that point, I mean, after the divorce, Joe decides to move. and he'll move all the way out to San Francisco. And he kind of gets a little nickname going there with all his neighbors. Now he's not just Joe. He's crazy Joe. Yeah, they called him Crazy Joe. I don't know if it was just San Francisco.

I think, again, everywhere he went, people thought he was odd. Yeah. I just know in San Francisco they called him, they literally called him Crazy Joe. There goes Crazy Joe. Yeah. People said that he had a bad temper and displayed all kinds of odd behavior. One woman that Joe Neso seemed fixated on was Margaret Prisco. She lived in the same apartment building as he did in San Francisco.

When they find all of his notebooks, he, has found three notebooks completely filled with his descriptions, which were very graphic. Wow. Of things that he wanted to do to this woman. Just her. Just her. She had her own notebooks. Volume one, volume two, volume three. She had three volumes.

Can you imagine being her like 30 years later to find out about this? Police call you and say, hey, did you know a guy named Joe Neso? She's going to say, yeah, I remember him. Crazy Joe. He knew you pretty well. We got three volumes of books about you and what he wanted to do to you. What he wanted to do, and I don't know all the details, but it was very graphic. But he didn't, right? He never hurt this woman. Thank goodness for her.

Others would not be so lucky. No. No. In 1981, the body of 56-year-old Sherylia Patton washed ashore in Tiburon, California. She had been strangled. Her body was placed into two plastic garbage bags. And authorities believe that Paterson. is number seven on Nassau's list of 10.

The entry only read Lady from 839 Levinward. Not much to go on. No. And unfortunate for her, I mean, the whole reason she went out there, San Francisco, was just to look for a job. And imagine running into this guy and, you know, the luck that she had. It's terrible. But it was her search for a job that tied her to the entry on Nassos list.

because she had been going around applying for jobs and on the applications, she listed her address as 839 Leavenworth. Well, it just so happened that at the time, Joe Neso was the manager of the building at 839 Levinworth. And he was never charged with her murder. No, he got lucky on this one. They did find some pictures of her, I believe, in his house.

But what's strange about this one, Gibbs, is he was the prime suspect. Back in 1981, the police just never could put enough together on him to charge him. Could never put enough physical evidence. No, they just, they thought it was him. They had a good idea was him. They just didn't have enough to actually charge him with it. They wouldn't find out till 30 years later. So then we get into the 1990s.

Neso lived in Yuba City, California. When 1993, the body of 38-year-old Pamela Parsons was found by some people, they were just kind of walking, you know, down the road off the side of the road. They found her body. Yeah. And she had been strangled. When police interviewed her friends, they said that she did occasionally work as a sex worker because she had a drug habit.

and she did that to get money to feed that habit. But investigators in 2010 found pictures of Pamela Parsons inside Nassos house. Yeah. On top of that, they also found a bunch of newspaper clippings of her disappearance, of them finding the body. The one picture that they found was disturbing. Well, it was because it was one of the ones I kind of mentioned up front. She appeared dead. Right?

there were a number of pictures of women, but investigators really couldn't tell. They were unconscious. They were dead. It was, you know, it was hard to tell. But with Pamela Parsons, they said that, you know, number one, her face seemed unnatural. And I think probably the big thing is they said her skin showed some discoloration. Yeah. It didn't look good. No, it was like levidity, you know, setting in. But again, you look back at all this stuff. stuff they find in Nassau's house, you know, there's an entry that says September 15th, stayed in Yuba City all day long, took care of some old business. Well, September 15th just happened to be the last day that anyone saw Pamela Parsons a lot. Authorities believe that Parsons is number nine.

on the list of 10, her entry listed as girl from Linda Yuba County. Took care of some old business. The very next year, 1994, the body of 31-year-old Tracy Tofoya was found just off Highway 70 in some weeds. She was found naked, face down, pretty close to Marysville Cemetery. Tracy was a mother of five. who police said had developed a drug habit. And again, investigators found pictures of her as well.

Newspaper clippings too. Sure. You can probably figure out this is not going to be much of a trial, right? They have a wealth of evidence against NASO. Now, the trial is going to be interesting for other reasons. But no, but I mean,

the, you know, journaling this information, giving them timelines. Sure. and enough descriptions and to pair it up with the photographs and the news clippings, it's, it's hard to deny that you didn't have anything to do with it. Yeah.

Why would you have descriptions in your journal? Why would you have pictures and why would you have news clippings, you know? Exactly. So he also had a entry that was marked August 6th and he wrote, picked up a nice broad in Marysville, 4 p.m. she came over four hours took photographs nice legs she ripped me off met Tracy put it to her okay this is what the entry said put it to her I think you could make a couple of different things out of that one being sexual the other being murderous yeah say either way you go it's not it's not gonna be good it's almost enough to send chills down your spine that

this man years later thinking back about, you know, some horrific things that he did kind of so cavalier, so nonchalant in the way that he journals about these things. And Gibbs, just like with Pamela Parsons, August 6th, the date that he has down in his journal is the last date that anyone saw Tracy a lot. Now, there is some conflicting information about whether Tracy was involved. in any type of sex work. Some authorities have said that she was. Others said no.

But I think it's safe to say that Tracy was number 10. Yeah. On the list of 10. Because the entry read Girl MRSV Cemetery, Marysville Cemetery. Absolutely. Not too hard to figure that out. No. When you put that together with the date.

So we've covered the four murders that. that Joe Neso is going to be charged with, right? Four counts of murders, all with special circumstances. He pleaded not guilty. And he went on trial June 18th, 2013. Now, I said the trial is probably not going to be much, but it does kind of turn into a circus side show. The prosecution presented what was some pretty compelling evidence, right? So they had 70, 70 to 80 witnesses during this trial. Some of these were women who testified that they had been assaulted by Joe Nassau. Some of these assaults again went back 20, 30 years. Prosecutors told the jury about how Nassau's DNA was found on the panty hose that Rogash was wearing when her body was found,

which I mentioned, right, DNA was going to tie back to him. What I didn't say and what, you know, what came out at trial was that his ex-wife's DNA. So Judith's DNA was found on the panty hose wrapped around Rogash's neck. So he left his DNA on the panty hose she was wearing. Right. He used his wife's panty hose to murder this 18-year-old girl. Yeah, that's terrible. They introduced DNA evidence found under Carmen Cologne's fingernails that tied back to NASO.

You got to figure this is 2013, right? Right. DNA, they're able to test all this. If he would have been caught in the 70s, might have got off. Might be a different story. Maybe they don't have the ammunition to put him away. But they do now. Or they did in 2013.

They also showed the jury, you know, some of the very, graphic photos of the victims. They put up his list of 10 on like a projection screen. And prosecutors went through them line by line, focusing on the ones that they knew. Obviously, the four women with whose murders he was charged with, but also the two others that we talked about Sarah Dillon and Cheralia Patton. Right. They were sure, they were pretty sure about those. Now, they chose not to charge him, but you and I have talked about that in a number of cases. There's, there's always reasons for that. You know, how solid is the evidence? Is that going to muddy the waters? Make it harder to get the conviction for these four. You don't need these two if

they're not as strong. Right. You got to go with the strongest ones. Yeah, there's a bunch of different reasons for why that can happen. Here in Marin County, during opening statements of accused serial killer Joseph Nassau's murder trial, prosecutors presented graphic photos of all four victims. They had been left naked on the side of the road. The photos of their decomposing bodies were so disturbing that some jurors looked away and one fought back tears. We talked about it before, Gibbs.

It's a hell of a thing for a citizen. citizen to be asked to do, right? Sit on this jury, look at things that you don't want to see. Nobody wants to see. Nobody wants to see, but you're compelled to view this evidence. And you can hear the reporter say it. You know, some people had to look away. One juror was fighting back tears. It's not easy. Tracy Tafoya's husband took the stand and was able to identify her from body photos. taken from Nassau's house. One thing that was very identifiable about Tracy Tafoya and that he was able to point out in these photos

was that she was missing a finger. She had lost a finger in a lawnmower accident. Well, that's, he helps with the identification for sure. Right. So in pictures where they couldn't see her face wasn't visible, her husband was easily able to tell from her body and especially her missing finger. Right.

That, yes. That's her body. Yep. And I know for sure because there's her hands missing the finger. Yep. Now, I said that this thing turned into a circus side show. And it did because Joe Neso made the brazen, ah, stupid, it's probably a better word for it.

Right. Decision. Going pro se is he? Yeah, that he's going to represent himself in this trial. I don't know why people will do that. It's so stupid. Again, I think he's a narcissist. I think, and we'll get into it a little bit.

But legal analysts openly called this a huge mistake, which how could you not? It was reported that he often seemed confused during the trial. He repeated himself a lot. He rambled. And Gibbs, he just generally didn't have the legal knowledge to combat the evidence against him. There's good attorneys that won't even. even do criminal cases because it's so complex, right? I mean, they might be a business attorney, a tax attorney, whatever. Yeah, real estate. Yeah, but they're right. I'm not going to, I would never do that.

You take somebody that does that all the time. That's who you want. One analyst on TV said, NACO's pretty bright, but he's not that bright. So in the beginning, right, when NACO says that he's going to represent himself. Obviously, as they always do, the judge says, hey, that's not a good idea. You know, they always caution defendants against representing themselves. NACSO's talking to the judge and he says, you know what, I'll be okay. I took a business law class in college. Oh, yeah, that's great. So, so did I. Well, whoopty freaking do. Yeah. I did too. I took business law in college. You want me represent you? No. No. I'm sure. sure is shit not going to represent myself in a murder trial where my life is on the line.

Really, if you think about it, how many of us normal, regular, non-lawyer type citizens are smart enough in the area of law to combat the state in a murder trial? Well, that's it, you know? I mean, if you don't have the knowledge, the understanding of how things work, you could be a really smart guy or woman, right? Smart person. You could be a smart person, but if you don't understand how it works, the process behind it, you're going to end up putting yourself in a jam, man. Well, there's no doubt. I mean, if it was that easy, everybody would do it. Sure. There's a reason why you have to go to school for this amount of time. There's a reason why you have to take a state bar exam.

Yeah. There's a reason why, you know, you have to clerk. You have to do all these different things. You got to understand how the processes work. I mean, every case that I've ever been involved that I've been sued in or lawsuit that the person represented themselves, always backfired on them. Always. I've never had anybody pro se come out ahead. I'm just telling you, if it doesn't work in the normal day type of business stuff, why the heck, like you said, Mike, why would you ever want to do that to represent yourself for a murder trial?

Well, again, like I said, I think number one, he's a narcissist. assist. I think people, they're fooling themselves if they think that just their brains and their wits alone are going to get them through that type of trial. I mean, seasoned, experienced, very good attorneys don't win all their cases. This is where our. So how the hell are you, Joe Blow, Smith, going to go in and, you know. We're here from, because I know we've got listeners that are attorneys, you know, defense attorneys and prosecutors. ex-prosecutors, and they'll tell you, they probably love when they get somebody

that goes up against them pro se. Why wouldn't they? I mean, it's like easy dinner. Yeah. It's like me playing basketball against a seven-year-old. I just swat the ball every time they shoot. Yeah. Or you play on their little Nerf thing

and you slam dunk every time. When I was a kid, I had the Nerf that clip down on the top of your door. Oh, yeah. And then when you shut the door, it had a little backboard and a little orange. Yeah, my boy has one of those.

They still make them, I'm sure. Yeah. I would literally play that for hours. I would watch, this was like early 80s. Yeah. I would watch NBA. Back then, NBA wasn't like it is today. You can only get it like on Saturdays or something.

Right. You know, now you can watch a game almost anytime you want. But I would watch it on Saturdays or college basketball on a Saturday and pretend that I was whoever. Thought you're Larry Bird. Big fun. Michael Jordan. Slamming. was really good on Dr. Jay.

I was really good at Nerf basketball. And maybe the strangest thing about it all, Gibbs, was that Joe Neso actually had quite a bit of money. It was said that he had more than $1 million in assets. Really? And we know he had $150,000 in cash. Right. Yeah. More than a million dollars in assets at the time he was arrested.

He had more than enough money to hire a good defense attorney. But I think he just thought, you know what? Why spend all my money when I'm smarter than these people? Yeah. And I mentioned him talking to the judge. Apparently, he also told the judge that he had a lot of experience in the courtroom. He had been involved in a number of civil actions over the years. And he said, you know what, Judge, I got a pretty good trial record in these civil proceedings.

It's not the same, Mr. No, it's not. Not the same. I guess a lot of these revolved around the care. of his son, Charles. I mentioned, you know, he was diagnosed to schizophrenia. Joe took care of him later in life into his 40s, I think. But eventually he had to put him in a group home.

But he was always suing people around his care or government agencies, things like that. So we get to Joe Nassau's opening statement. He's representing himself. And he says, this case is about me, my life. I'm not the monster who killed these women. I don't do that. I dated. I danced.

I don't kill people. That was his opener. That was it. That was it. A date. A dance. I don't kill. If you saw Mike,

he's actually making, what do you even call that? Side to side hand movements. It's like you're dancing in your chair. I was doing the floss. Is that what's the dance now that? Oh, the, yeah. Don't do that.

Is it the floss? You never want to do that. No adult should ever. do that. Probably shouldn't. That's not good for anybody. So then you get into the trial. And I mean, what's his defense? Right. He doesn't really have much. Number one, he's got to try to attack the evidence. So he comes out and he's talking about these photographs. He's got tons of evidence against him. And he said, you know what? Yeah, I took all these photographs. But number one, they don't prove that I killed anyone. Number two, all the women in these photographs posed for them freely of their own free will

to help him create what he called his art. And I'm doing air quotes for art. And then when he talked about his diaries and the ledger entries, he said, you know what? It's just fantasy. Just fantasy writing of an old man. Just something I wrote down was on my top of my head. I thought, this sounds like an interesting fantasy. Yeah, it's just a story. Just happens to be the exact same area where something happened. It just happens to line up perfectly dates, names, where bodies were dumped. I guess he was pretty combative with a lot of the witnesses during the trial.

And he got into it at one point with one of the detectives because, you know, I mentioned this earlier. The detectives always referred to his diaries and his journals and all this. as a rape journal. I mean, this is what they called it. It's kind of a strange name, but he did talk a lot about rape in his writings. So he asked one of the detectives, why do you keep calling it that?

And the detective says, I call it a rape journal because in it, you write things such as, I had to rape her. I raped her in an alley. I raped her in the front seat of my car. That's why I call it a rape journal. Mr. Pro Se,

you walked right into that one. Thank you. So earlier Gibbs, I mentioned that Nassau's ex-wife, Judith, testified at trial. And obviously, since he's representing himself, he's able to cross-examine her. I'm sure a lot of guys would jump at the chance to cross-examine their ex-wives on the stand. A lot of women would like to cross-examine their ex-husbands as well. Or their husbands. Or their current husbands, too. I'd like to ask you, a few questions on the stand under oath to get down to some things that I've been wondering about. I'd probably have to perjure myself. I guarantee you take the fifth. Well, I take the fifth for sure. So during this cross-examination of his wife, first of all, he's got to try to explain the tape conversation

they had in jail, right? We talked about that that was played for the jury at trial. That was pretty hard to do because it was word for word and it was him asking her to get their son to go, you know, go get the stuff out of the safe deposit box. Well, they knew what was in the safe deposit box later on. But he asked his former wife if he had ever physically abused or threatened her or if she had ever heard of him harming another person. And I guess at one point she said, well, you did tell me shortly after we married that you were charged with rape. And I guess he replied, yeah, but that was back in the 50s. Yeah, you can't hold that against me.

That's a long time ago. It don't count. That was almost 60 years ago. Yeah, don't count. I was a different person then. But I guess it was almost comical at times. These two going back and forth, you know, she and the witness stand, him cross-examining her, you know, they got into it.

They bickered. They argued. The judge had to admonish him a number of times. Well, probably needed to remind him. not about your marriage now. Right. It's about the, about your trial. The prosecutor in Nassos case ended her closing arguments by reading some excerpts from his diary, his journals dating back to the 1950s. And I mentioned the one about the girl in Kansas City. Sure. Right. That ended with had to rape her in my

car on a cold winter night. Another one that the prosecutor read, was Rochester, late 1950s, picked up a cute Ukrainian girl, great legs, used to take photos of her. In those days, I would pose as a professional photographer. What a scam. Oh, yeah. He's basically laid everything out. It's pretty full disclosure. Yeah.

So on August 20th, 2013, jury of six men, six women, they deliberate. for about five hours. Not too long, longer than I would expect. Yeah. Not too long. Not too long. Before finding Joseph Nassau guilty of all four murders. And the judge sentenced him to death.

But I guess even that was a sideshow. Even before the hearing began, 79-year-old serial killer Joe Nassau several times flipped off the audience of former jurors, victims, family members, and reporters who had covered the case from the start. And when the judge gave him one last chance to speak before receiving the death sentence. Neso only complained about having to pay his victim's

families. He said he should get restitution for being charged. Judge Andrew Sweet called Nesau evil, one of those people who make us worry about our kids walking to school, who make us lock our doors at night. He gave Nassau death sentences for each of three victims, Carmen Cologne in Contra Costa County, Pam Parsons and Tracy Tofoya in Yuba County. The judge also said the murders of Roxene Rogash and Sharia Patton and Marin and Sarah Dillon in Nevada County by Nassau played a role in his decision. So how about that, Gibbs? You know, a guy in his late 70s, he's been convicted, he's waiting on his sentence. Judge says, hey, got anything you want to say?

Well, I'm going to flip off the jury. Yeah. I'm going to turn around. I'm going to flip off the victim's families. And you heard the reporter talk about restitution because, again, Joe had some money. and he was ordered to pay money to the victims. I don't know how much it was. I know at one point,

I think the judge asked the victim's families to compile information about money they had spent over the years. So, but I think, you know, he was ordered to pay them some restitution. Again, he says, you know what? You should be paying me.

Crazy, man. So he was sent to, death row at San Quentin. And we covered six of the 10 on Nassos list, right? There are six that police have pretty definitively tied him to. You even heard there in the clip, the judge referenced a couple of the murders that he wasn't charged for, but there are four that investigators have yet to figure out. number one on the list is an entry that read

Girl Near Helzburg, Mendocino County. This one's tough because they can't figure out what Helzberg is. I guess it's not a city in Mendocino County, California. They think it's just misspelled. Because if you add an A to it, it becomes Healdsberg. And that is a city. But again, there's not much to go on. just, you know, girl in in a city.

Number four on the list just read, Girl on Mount Tam. Not a whole lot to go on there. No. Number five on the list said, girl from Miami near Down Peninsula. And then number six was girl from Berkeley. Oh, that's not much to go on at all.

No. A lot of women over the years in Berkeley, California. Absolutely. There was. It is. But this is one of those. cases Gibbs where, first of all, I got sucked into it because it became fascinating to me the more I researched it. But it's one of those where you can kind of see from the amount of photos,

the amount of journal entries that this guy had a ton of victims. But I don't know that there's any way to ever know the true number. Probably not. I can't imagine that you ever could. But I guarantee his sexual assaults probably were in the hundreds. I'm sure he murdered way more than six women. Oh, I believe that. Way more. Yeah. I mean, he's been doing this for at least 50 years and probably more. Yeah. With sexual assaults for sure. Yeah, sexual assaults. Who knows how long with the murders. But I think the numbers are low. I do too. I do too. But it's an interesting case. I liked it once I got into. to it with the research. And I like to tie some potential tie-ins.

To some unsolved that we might do. Yeah. Yeah. If we could have timed it better, we could have done the New York alphabet murders on unsolved. That would have been cool. At the same time. But that was my fault.

I didn't plan it very good. But I think when you have the number of years at the case span, how old this guy was when they finally caught up to him. and the fact that he'd just been sitting around journaling his memories of the past of what were just very horrific things that he had done, you know, crimes he had committed against women. But he didn't see it that way, right? Oh, I'm sure in his head he didn't. He's beautiful. I was going to marry her.

Yeah. Just like he didn't see why he should have to pay the victim's family's restitution. Right. He thought the state should be paying him because, you know, why are you charging me? Why are you dragging me through a trial? Yeah. Why is a jury convicting me when I haven't done anything wrong? Yeah.

And I'm here representing myself because clearly I'm that good. I'm super smart. I'm Matlock and Raymond Burr wrapped into one. Just like that. Just like that. You know, I just think how lucky did the justice system get to catch him at his age? Because literally, he could have got away. The rest of his life.

Sure. Yeah, he could have. He was close. Yeah, he could have died before they found out. Sure. Imagine being that person cleaning out that apartment or that house. Kind of like, hey, let's look through some stuff and find those photos. But eventually, they were going to find that stuff.

One way or the other. Yeah, somebody would have. Either he died in that house unless he set the whole thing on fire. I don't know how he was getting rid of all that. Yeah. Had a burn box ready to go to burn the place down. Exactly. All right.

But that is it. That's the case of Joseph Neso. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. Check them out. Let's hear it. Hey, yo, this Willie, from Boston. How are you guys doing? I just recently moved down to Atlanta.

Oh, I love it down here in South Georgia. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I just finished up y'all's podcast. Got caught up on T-Cat and Unsawed. Man, y'all do some damn good work. I'll tell you what. Now, y'all stay safe.

Keep y'all's on time ticking. Oh, Givie. Oh, you so fine. Oh, Gibby, you're so fine. you so fine you so fine you blow my mind hey gibby oh oh givey oh givey oh give me oh give me oh give me oh oh hey give me bye i think you got a fan there brother that's the same message you left on my phone well just the last part it was actually two different voicemails yeah because he left just the oh givey you're so fine yeah and then he left another one so i just put him together yeah but i got it because i got that kind of skill

you're good you're good you're good at editing but i will say his accents are little better than yours. Well, you gotta be like that, man. They were decent, especially his, uh, was, I don't know,

that might be his real accent, the one from Georgia, I don't know, but that was pretty good. The southern. The southern? Twang. I'm down here in the,

down in Georgia. So what is that? I'm down in Georgia. Georgia. I'm down in Georgia. That's not a southern accent. I didn't say it would. Hi,

guys. Paul Ring here in St. Louis. Um, unabashed, Forensic Files, Junkie, my daughter turned me onto your podcast.

I love it. There's one out of St. Louis that you guys really should do. It's Michael Wayne Jackson. Michael Jackson, of course, middle name Wayne. You know what that indicates half the time. Anyway, a really cool story. I kind of lived through it through all the manhunt and everything. Bizarre story.

Just thought you guys could check it out. And Gibby, don't let him change you a bit. I love you, man. Thank you, guys. Don't go changing. A lot of people on the Gibby bandwagon. Saying don't go changing? Don't go changing.

I wouldn't if I could. Even if I tried? Even if I tried. So Michael Wayne Jackson. Yeah. I don't know that I've heard of that one. I'm going to check that out. Did you jot that down on your list?

Yeah. I'd definitely like to do a story about Michael Jackson. There you go. It's kind of a thriller, actually. Don't you moonwalk your ass out of here. Hey, hey. And whatever did happen to Billy Jean. I know.

Not my lover. No. Just a girl. Just a girl. Did, um, it's cool how we got a lot of father-daughters that listen. And if you think about it, it's a lot of daughters turning their fathers onto the podcast. Yeah. Because, you know, they may not know much about podcasts.

I mean, my dad didn't know anything about podcast before I started doing one. I just think it's neat. So, like, when we go to CrimeCon, of course, we meet all the individual people. But then we meet the husbands and wives or the, just the couples in general, right? And I think this year we're going to see some, last year we met some mom and daughters. We did. Yeah, mothers and daughters. I think this year we're going to see more of the father or daughter coming to CrimeCon.

So it's cool. It's a cool trip. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Molly from Michigan. But I am a Michigan state alumni, go green. So any, you know, given Saturday of a college football season, we probably have a similar objective. I first on your podcast when I was living last year in Boston. And I, when I was feeling home with it, it was really nice to be able to turn on an episode of T-CAT or insult and hear people that not only sounded like me, but I thought about the world, the way I was used to thinking about it and related to other people.

Like, I am used to relating to other people. And I bet you never even knew that you were doing all of that in the podcast. And I want to say thanks. I also have a big idea for a show where we get a Ghibi takeover. You can only imagine Ghibi running an entire episode, the amount of new Ghibiisms, maybe a record number of K-bar references. And of course, how many new accents the world could be introduced to in the space of one episode. I, again, I want to see thanks for all of your hard work.

much appreciated. Stay safe and keep you on time ticking. It's a piece of a lot of the accents that I could do. A Gibby takeover. We thought about that a couple times where I was, you know... Flip rolls. Yeah, where you would do most of the talking. The problem is the editing.

Just say, there's not enough time in the day. It would go from about four hours to three days. Four hours to do two podcasts to... We're in the day two and Gibby's halfway through T-Cat. Oh, yeah. Well, taping and editing. would take a while. I think I can do it.

I think you could too. I have a lot of faith in you and maybe we'll do that one day. Yeah. Hey guys. It's Dylan Hunter calling from Winnipeg, Manitoba of Canada. I just wanted to say that I really enjoy the show. It keeps me going throughout my shift.

I work evenings and I have a lot of free time. So I often binge listen to all the episodes of TrueGam all the time. And yeah, I just wanted to say that keep up the good work. and there was a case. Her name was Andrea Geistbrecht from where I live in Winnipeg and she was charged with killing like a bunch of her own babies

and hiding them in a storage container. I think it would make a really good episode. Anyway, stay safe and keep your own time taking. All right. Calling in from Canada. Hey? Take off, eh? Hey, take off.

You hoiser. Great white. It's not a bad word, is it? hoser. Hoser? You hoser or you? Well, I don't know. I used to love that. Started off on SCTV. I used to watch a lot of SCTV. Did you ever watch that? Yeah, I remember John Candy was on there. Eugene Levy. Dan Aykroyd, maybe? No, because he was on Saturday Night Live. I'm trying to think, and there was a bunch of people on there. It's good stuff. But the one I'm talking about is, I can't remember their names. Oh, Rick Moranis and the other guy. They did, uh,

The two Canadians Great White North. Yeah, who were they? I just said Rick Moranis. I can't remember the other guy's name now. Why can't you remember him? Because he didn't go on to be as famous as Rick Moranis. But I used to watch that a lot. Was Rick Moranus really famous?

He was in Honey I blew up. The kids twice? Like 14 movies. Yeah. Oh, and he was in Ghostbusters. He was in like twice. Yeah. At least the second one, I think, wasn't it?

Yeah, there you go. He was the gatekeeper, the key master or something. Okay. No, he was. He had a good run. Yeah, I'm sure you made a bunch of money. All right, that's it for voicemails. We had mailbag.

Do we have mailbag? Yep. Lisa Andrews sent us a huge box, probably the biggest box we've ever gotten. Really? There's like 10 things. What's in the box? What's in the box? What's in the box?

There was like 10 different things of beef jerky. Really? Oh, my, it was just chock full of beef jerky. We must knew that we needed some soul food. And she must have heard me say I like green olives. There was a little bottle of green olives. That's be for you because it's not for me. Chocolate bars.

There was a couple Harley chips. It was just a huge box. That's awesome. Thank you for that. So yeah, Lisa, we appreciate that very much. All right, Gibbs. That is it. That is it?

Sit for the case of Joseph Neso. Hey, follow Gibby at True Crime Gibby on Instagram. Just follow me. What for? Just cuss. All right. Do it. All right.

You too. I'm not following you. You need to do it. I don't want to see all the. weird inspirational quotes that you put up there jump over there's good stuff man there's good stuff jump over it's like looking at a bunch of hallmark cards one after the other by gibby hallmark by gibby i wonder if i call hallmark and get a side gig you can't even say hallmark i just said hallmark it didn't come out right all right all right folks that is it for another episode of true crime all the time so for mike

and gibby stay safe and keep your own time ticking