True Crime All The Time - Kacie Woody

Episode Date: June 8, 2026

Kacie Woody was groomed online by a middle-aged predator posing as a teenager in Yahoo chat rooms. The case became one of the earliest high-profile examples of internet stalking leading to abduction and murder, helping shape future law enforcement approaches to online child exploitation.Join Mike and Gibby as they cover the tragic 2002 murder of 13-year-old Kacie Woody of Holland, Arkansas. Kacie was talking to people online, but the police were most interested in two boys, Scott and Dave. As the investigation unfolded, "Dave" turned out to be a 47-year-old married father from California, named David Leslie Fuller, who was discovered to be an online predator.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You know, folks, making that decision to start a podcast or really any type of business, it's scary. It was for Gibby and I as well. What if no one listens? What if we make fools of ourselves? And it can be really hard to get over that doubt. But choosing to make that leap was one of the best decisions we've ever made. Another great decision was picking Shopify to help with our podcast merch.

It really does help. When you have a partner like Shopify on your side. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Jim Shark to true crime all the time to brands just getting started. There is a lot to love about Shopify. I love the fact that they're now packed with helpful AI tools that help you write product descriptions and even enhance your product photography. You can easily create email and social media campaigns. And if you get stuck, Shopify is always around to share advice with their award-winning 24-7 customer support.

It's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash T-Cat. Go to Shopify.com slash T-Cat. That's Shopify.com slash T-C-A-T-T. Hello, everyone and welcome to episode 504 of the True Crime Mall Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson,

Gibby, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing great. You and I are just getting back into the swing of things after coming back from CrimeCon in Vegas. You know, it was great. It was. We had our meet up.

We got to meet new fans, see old, you know, fans that have been with us a long time. It's a lot of fun. It's also very expensive in Las Vegas. It is. Hopefully I'll get my shirt back. somehow from there. He lost your shirt. Yeah.

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Richard Ramirez jump out at our highest level. Well, that's a very interesting last name, Ramirez, with the first name Richard. I was going to say, I think Ramirez is pretty common. Yeah, the combo, though. The combo is what strikes it. Patrick Erickson also jumped out at our highest level. What's going on, Patrick?

We had Casey Van Nu. Hey, Van Nu. Jackie Hansen. Well, thanks, Jackie. And last but not least, Charles Thompson. Thank you so much, Charles. And you'll hear from Charles later on, not directly, but he also sent us a big package from Scotland. Really?

And do you know, Charles, he's in charge. Yeah, of our days and our nights. Always got to updo me, don't you? Updo you or outdo you? However you want to say. All right, and then if we go back into the vault. This week we selected Rebecca. Thanks, Rebecca.

Yeah, we appreciate all the, uh, the Patreon support we got. And we did talk a lot more about CrimeCon on Patreon. So if you're a Patreon supporter, go over there and check it out. If you're not, now's a great time to sign up. We have a brand new episode out on Unsolved right now where we're talking about actress Barbara Colby. She was murdered in 1975. Shortly after she got a, a big break in her career.

it was a major role in a new sitcom. So we go through all the particulars of that case. And then on Thursday's T-Cat, we're talking about Aaron Goodwin, best known for his role as cameraman, ghost hunter, on the popular show, Ghost Adventures. In 2024, his wife, Victoria, began plotting to kill him with Florida inmate Grant Amato, who we covered on T-Cat. Yeah, that's a very interesting case.

It is. It is. So that'll be out Thursday. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am ready. We're talking about Casey Woody. In December 2002, 13-year-old Casey Woody was stalked, abducted, and murdered by a 47-year-old man she met online who had been posing as a teenager in chat rooms. Such a scary thing.

That is. Casey Woody was born on. on October 17th, 1989. Her parents were Rick Woody and Christy Woody. Casey has two older brothers, Tim and Austin. And speaking of people posing as teenagers online to meet underage people,

Chris Hanson was in the booth like just a few down from us. Yeah. So, you know, to catch a predator is going to come to mind in this episode, no doubt. Since 1984, the family had lived in Holland, Arkansas, a tiny community in rural Faulkner County.

The area appealed to Christy and Rick because it was quiet and safe. And you know, that's what a lot of families look at. When they, you know, they start to have kids, okay, where's the best place to raise our kids? Yeah, you want a nice, nice community, safe community, good school system, things like that. Casey attended school and nearby Greenbrier. On June 19, 1997, Rick, Christy, Tim, and Casey were on their way home from Tim's baseball game when two horses ran onto the road.

In front of them, Rick hit one of the horses, which slammed through the windshield on the passenger side, killing Christy. Oh, man. I mean, you don't hear things like that around here, right? We don't have horses getting loose. we have deer we do have a lot of deer which cause accidents we have a lot of horses i have just not heard of a scenario like this around here not to say it couldn't happen but how tragic and casey was just seven years old when her mother died from then on she hated horses and how could you not yeah heartbreak because casey grew up without her mom she assumed a lot of responsibility at a young age

She did her own laundry, cooked dinner for herself, and did her homework without being told. Things that you never have done even to this date. Oh, and I certainly never did my homework. Well, you all know that. Whether I was told or not. I'm still correcting you on things. In June 2001, Rick Woody went on part-time patrol. For the Greenbrier Police Department, he had been working as a dispatcher, but he wanted to be on the streets.

He was assigned to the nightship. Normally, Casey's older brother, Tim, was home at night. On weekends, she went to her grandmother's house. There were some evenings when Casey was home alone for several hours, but Rick believed she was safe. Casey didn't seem to mind being home alone. They had lived in the same area for 18 years with no issues, and it was said they even often left their door unlocked.

I mean, there's communities like that. I mean, I kind of live in a community like that now that I'm not concerned. I feel like I could leave my door unlocked and not have to worry about it. But, you know me, I lock it down and all that. I mean, partly because you have nothing of value that anyone would want to steal. So now they might want to do you harm for a myriad of reasons. That's why I lock it down when I'm in it. But it's certainly not going to be because you have a treasure trove of very expensive items,

as cheap as you are. Those are all buried. At the time of her death, Casey was a student at Greenbrier Middle School and participated in band and choir. She was also in her school's gifted and talented program. Casey was said to be quiet around people she didn't know. But she loved to perform for friends and family. She was described as a model.

shop and had deep empathy for others. She was also more trusting than her peers because she had never had a bad experience with anyone before. Jessica Bradford, one of Casey's best friends, told THV-11 her personality was outgoing and caring. Nobody was a stranger to her. When you don't know any better, right? Because she's never experienced it.

So you're going to be like that. Yeah. I mean, if you grow up kind of in a rough environment or, let's say you grow up on the streets, you are going to be a lot more wary of things than, you know, if you grow up in middle America, you're very sheltered, you've never had a bad experience. I could see that happening. Casey liked spending time with her friends and listening to bands like Insync. She was also interested in the internet.

She and her friends used online chat rooms to message other teams. And Casey lives so far out in the country that phone calls to Greenberg, which was 12 miles north, were long distance. Rick had strict rules about using the phone. So Casey mostly used instant messaging to talk to her friends. She preferred instant messaging over email because she could have conversations in real time. Her username was Model Behavior 63. Model behavior was one of her favorite Disney movies. 63 was her brother's football jersey.

And I remember growing up back in the day when you had just a town over was long distance. Literally would drive me crazy because you're thinking it's not that far. How can it be long distance? But if you called, you know, wanted to talk to a girl over there, you called and, you know, your parents be like, why did you make this long distance phone call, you know, 20 times this month and talk for an hour or two, you know. And you can't tell the truth, right? It's because, you know, mom, dad. Come on now. You know what I'm trying to do here. But there was also, if you remember, peak hours. There was. Like if you called after a certain time, it would be cheaper.

I mean, just things that we don't even think about today because, first of all, you just pick up your cell phone and call. You don't worry about where it is. You don't worry about what time it is. It's unlimited, baby. I remember I remember one time I was dating this girl. I was, I don't know, a sophomore or something in high school, long distance. I called her at nighttime. We were talking and, you know, no, you say goodbye. No, you say goodbye. You know, back and forth. Sure. And then she said, well, just fall asleep with me. And I remember, okay. And then I remember when I remember when the bill came, my dad about lit me up. I'm surprised he didn't actually with the Mattel racetrack. He probably did light me up. But he was like, why, why is there like, it was something like

seven hours or something? What, what the heck did you have to talk about? And I'm like, well, we didn't. We fell asleep. And that just made it worse. Oh, that's, yeah, that's not going to go over. Yeah. In May 2002, Casey met a, a boy named Scott online. Scott was 14 years old. at the time and lived in a suburb of Atlanta. He liked football and wrestling. Casey and Scott talked and flirted for several months before they became official on October 3, 2002. By the fall of 2002, Casey was a regular in Yahoo's teen and Christian chat rooms. That summer, she met a guy named Dave in a Yahoo chat room.

In his profile, Dave indicated that he, He was an 18-year-old from San Diego. His picture showed a young man with wavy hair. So, you know, the two became friends. They messaged each other regularly. Casey introduced Dave to others in her online friend group. They bonded over their love of music. Dave played guitar and Casey sang and played the saxophone.

Casey set up three-way phone calls between herself, Dave, and her real-life friends. and even sent Dave photos of some of her friends. She briefly considered Dave her boyfriend. But in early autumn, she became interested in a local boy. She broke up with that boy for Scott. According to the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, Casey and Dave's friendship was full of romantic overtimes. Even after Scott became her boyfriend,

Casey had introduced Scott to Dave. They had even talked on the, the phone before. The first time Dave called Scott's mother answered and asked why someone was calling from California, Scott took the phone from her and said it was a friend of a friend. The second time, Scott's dad answered the phone. He was angry when he heard Dave's voice and declared that he wasn't a kid and ordered him not to call again. Some people just can't be fooled. Yeah. Some people pick up on things that, you know, maybe a 14, 15 year old just wouldn't pick up on. Yeah.

Casey's real-life friends were concerned over how trusting she was of strangers she met online. Her friend Samantha had never liked Dave, and she thought Scott's romantic messages were excessive. Another friend had similar feelings about Scott. Casey once emailed him an excerpt of a message from Scott. and he asked how long she had known him and if she believed all the things he was saying. Rick Woody was also concerned when Casey told him her online friend was celebrating his 18th birthday. He told her 18 was too old and ordered Casey to stop talking to him. We both have daughters. We've been down that road.

We know how we feel about them dating somebody too old. Yeah. but we also know and have experienced what happens when you try to order your daughter not to talk to somebody, not to, you know, see somebody. I mean, most of the time, Gibbs, what does it do? It just makes them want to do it that much more. Yeah, it backfires on you. It can, for sure.

Casey messaged Dave and told him that her dad said they couldn't talk anymore. around that time, Dave started calling Casey frequently to talk to her about his aunt, who was in a coma after a car accident and wasn't expected to live more than a few months. Casey felt bad for him. And I mentioned it, right? Her friend said, you know, she was a very empathetic person. So, of course, she's going to feel bad for Dave because he's telling her this story about his aunt who's in a coma not expected to live long.

Casey would occasionally call Dave, but would hang up quickly. These phone calls made Casey's friend Samantha uncomfortable. She agreed that Dave didn't sound like an 18-year-old and noted that he used outdated slang like groovy. Oh, yeah. Groovy in the early 2000s? I mean, not even you and I were doing that. No. That's not groovy to use groovy at that time.

I don't even know if, like, it used to be also chill. And now it went from chill to it's sick. But I don't even think sick is the thing now. I think it's something different. I still think you're decades behind. I probably am. At CrimeCon, there was a girl that came up that was talking and she liked something that was being said. and she'd started using her index finger and her thumb

and, you know, basically clapping them together multiple times. Like, and I guess that means like, that's good. Okay. Like applauding. But it was just so weird for see somebody do that, you know. I'm not going to start that. Yeah. Chime is fee-free banking built for you.

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a bank, banking services for MyPay and Chime card provided by Chimes bank partners for more information on APY rates. MyPay, SpotMe, and travel perks, go to chime.com slash disclosures. Optional products and services may have fees or charging. On two occasions, Casey set up three-way phone calls so she could talk to Dave and Samantha at the same time. Dave also talked to Casey's friend, Jessica. One weekend in November 2002, Jessica was spending the night at Casey's house. Casey was on the phone with Dave and handed it over to Jessica. During the conversation, the girls heard noises outside.

That sounded like someone walking around the back of the house. They moved a dresser in front of Casey's bedroom door. Minutes later, they thought they heard the kitchen floor squeak. Casey told Dave, she was afraid someone was in the house. He responded, oh, there's nobody in your house. You're just imagining things. And the noises stopped after that. During that same conversation, Dave told Casey he was going to Arkansas because his aunt was

deteriorating. He planned to stay in Arkansas until she died. However, he didn't ask or suggest that he wanted to see her in person. The girls tried to end the conversation several times. But Dave said he had been driving. for hours and needed company. On December 3rd, 2000, Casey went to school as normal. That morning, she was having a disagreement with her friend, Samantha.

And we talked about it, right? Samantha couldn't understand Casey's fascination with these boys that she had met online. She worried about how freely Casey was giving out her phone number. Samantha had told Casey, you can't be in love with someone from the, internet well back then no but a lot of things have changed over the time and people fall in love over their internet internet all the time now but i get it i know what she's saying like you haven't even met this person you don't know anything about them besides what they want you to think about them well and and not to mention her age right she is a pretty young girl at this point yeah you're right a

a lot of people are meeting their soulmates. People they end up marrying over the internet. It's a big deal. But the internet has changed a lot in the last 25 years. Oh, for sure. I mean, there's still catfishing going on all the time and probably always will be. But there are many ways, you know, where you don't have to give out all your information. You don't have to give out your phone number. You could do a Zoom call. Yeah. Or something. something like that and still keep a lot of your information private. The day before, Samantha made a comment about a photo of Scott that Casey kept in her locker. Samantha said he was hot, but Casey thought she said fact.

Oh, man, you talk about two girls getting into a fight. Oh, yeah. Over a misunderstanding of words, been there, done that. seen my daughters do it a number of times. By the next morning, the girls' mutual friends had taken sides in the disagreement. And Samantha decided to get an adult involved. She took a friend with her to talk to school counselor Diana Keller. Mrs. Keller listened to Samantha and then called Casey to her office so the girls could talk alone.

When she reentered the office, the girls had patched things up. Girls do that, you know. They can hate each other one day and be best friends again the next day. Yeah, my wife can go from zero to 60 in no time, but then also, you know, come back down very quickly. Yeah. And be de-escalated. I, on the other hand, have a hard time de-escalating quickly. Yeah, you harbored things for a little while.

For years sometimes, decades. Do you hold a grudge? In some instances. Yes, you are a grudge holder. I am. Samantha was worried that Casey would soon be angry because she had told Ms. Keller that Casey was giving out her phone number online and Mrs. Keller promised to talk to Casey about it. She asked Casey about it and Casey reassured her that she only gave her number to people approved by her death.

But Samantha knew this was a lot. Yeah. And I said it right. her dad wasn't happy with her talking to these guys, especially some of these that were 18 or about to turn 18. Later that day, Mrs. Keller called Casey back to her office and warned her about online dangers, but Casey just didn't seem to have any fear. Samantha and Casey met after school. Casey was her usual happy self, but she made a suggestion that later caused her friends to question if she sensed something was going to happen.

Casey asked if she could sleep over at Samantha's house. Samantha said no because she knew her mom would not allow a school night sleep over. Casey also asked her friend Jessica. Jessica also said no. Casey asked a third friend, but she received the same answer. It's a bummer when you ask a friend if you can spend the night and they say no. I mean, I used to do that here at least five, seven, maybe 12 times a year, and you're like, Shannon won't let you.

Shannon won't let you. No. Yeah. First of all, there's no reason. You have your own place. And it just seems as though you're trying to set something up that could go south in a hurry. And then I have to sleep on the couch with a weapon just to keep an eye on you. You know, at least keep one eye open and keep your head on a swivel.

Exactly. But I also like to sleep. and I'd rather not stay up on that. Casey never explained why she wanted to spend the night with a friend. She didn't seem upset by her friend's rejection. She laughed and headed to the bus stop, telling her friends goodbye before she boarded. That evening, Casey's dad, Rick, was on patrol.

In Greenbrier, he had a sinus infection and had almost called in sick. His chief told him to take it easy, and Rick thought he could make it through a shift, which ended at 2 a.m. he kept his phone with him so he could check on Casey but he wasn't worried Casey's 19 year old brother Tim was still living at home his friend Eric Betts also 19 was temporarily living with them if they weren't around Casey had her aunt who lived on

the same street well it sounds like a safe place to be right I mean two adult boys not boys really young men 19 each of them and like he said the aunt was this down the street and this is supposed to be a safe town. But here's the thing. At 6 p.m., Tim left to go to the University of Central Arkansas Library. Eric also had an evening class. And then Casey's aunt was at her daughter's basketball game. So Casey was truly alone that night.

That evening, she checked the weather, hopeful for a snow day. She got ready for bed and then get on the computer to message Scott. Casey told Scott that she was one of the few students chosen to sing in front of the school board. Scott congratulated her. While she was messaging Scott, Casey was on the phone with Dave, who was giving her an update on his aunt. He said she was expected to pass shortly. And it was said that Casey kept Scott informed of her conversation with Dave.

She also mentioned her visit to the counselor's office. and the Arkansas Democrat Gazette published excerpts of their conversation. Casey said, so guess what? I got a lecture. Scott, I'm sorry, baby. Casey, on how you could be an 80-year-old rapist, L.O.L. Scott said L-O-L. Casey, he, he, and that the picture was your grandson.

Scott Roweback, how many times have you gotten that one? She said, I lost count. Well, then she's like, do your parents know? You talk to people you don't know. I was like, yeah. And she was like, well, be careful. And don't agree to meet them unless your mom and dad is with you. I was like, okay.

And she's like, well, remember this little talk. I was like, okay. Scott said, uh-oh, probably means she's going to talk to you again. Casey said, I know. What Casey didn't know was that while she was messaging Scott, a man was outside of her house watching her. Scott continued messaging Casey, but she abruptly stopped responding. Scott wrote, He, he, I'll always be with you, my angel, because you're all I want to be with.

I put my screensaver as the picture I have in my locker. You're the most beautiful angel in the world, Casey. are you okay sweetie? So these are a series of messages, right, that he sent with no response. Casey finally responded at 9.41 p.m. writing, yeah, Y, A, H, which was uncharacteristically brief of her.

Yeah, it seems strange for somebody that was communicating the way she was up to that point. Yeah, pretty talkative, you know. Investigators believe that the intruder snuck into the house and caught Casey off guard while she was messaging Scott, he covered her face with a chloroform soaked rack and dragged her through the house into his vehicle. Her glasses were knocked off during the struggle. And here's Scott, right, on the other end, his messages became increasingly worried. Are you busy? He-he, guess so. You there, baby, sweetie, are you okay? Please talk to me. When you are

ready to talk, sweetie, I'll be here. Are you mad at me, sweetie? So it's just, you know, a lot of messages one after the other. He's not getting any response. And it sounds like he's getting a little worried. And really for the next 35 minutes, he continued to frantically message her. And then at 10, 15 p.m., Scott called Casey's house. When Casey didn't answer, he messaged her. Why isn't anyone answering the phone? Scott also emailed Casey's friend Jessica. He said, Jessica, please let this be you. Something is wrong with Casey.

Her messenger is still on. And all of a sudden, she left during our convo, but didn't log off. And I tried to call her and no one answered. And we weren't fighting or anything. So I emailed the cops to make sure she's all right. I hope they get it soon.

I'm going crazy. I don't know what I would do without her. Please, God let her be okay. But Jessica didn't see this email until the following afternoon. Eric Betts returned home from class at 10.17 p.m. He assumed Casey was already in bed. He watched TV and did his laundry for the next hour at 11.30 p.m. during one of his trips to the laundry room.

He noticed Casey wasn't in her room and assumed she was out with friends or family. Tim came home a few minutes later. Eric asked where Casey went. Tim said he thought she was home. Tim called his father at 11.40 p.m. Rick said Casey was supposed to be home. He last spoke to her at 7 p.m. He knew something was wrong and told Tim to start calling Casey's friends and checking with their aunt down the street.

As a parent, this is where my anxiety was kick in. Yeah. Yeah, I think it did for him as well. You know, we talk about mom's intuition a lot. Well, you know, dad's got some too. He's also a police office. Right. So he's probably looking at it from, you know, maybe that angle as well. Rick drove back to the police department to check in. No one knew anything about Casey. He contacted the sheriff's office and then headed home. When he arrived, he saw that both of Casey's coats were inside and her tennis shoes and boots were still by the computer.

The temperature was in the 30s and it was raining that night. If Casey was going somewhere, she would definitely need her shoes and a coat. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense for her to leave without those items. A deputy arrived at the house at 12.24 a.m. Meanwhile, Rick, Tim, and Eric were calling Casey's friends trying to see if she had left to meet them. By this time, Rick had seen a phone call from Georgia on the caller ID placed at 10.15 p.m. They also found the messages between Casey and Scott on the computer. Casey's mangled glasses were found under a pile of towels in a recliner.

The frames were bent and one lens had popped out. Casey's beloved dog was also limping. A terrible person. And you mentioned, you know, the anxiety. on Rick's part. Okay, I think once you find these things, it's got to go even higher. Absolutely. Obviously, she needs her glasses, so something has to be going on.

And who would hurt a dog? And how did the dog get hurt? Was the dog trying to defend Casey against an intruder? I mean, a lot of those things could run through your mind. Tim was the last one to see Casey when he left the house at 6 p.m. he recalled that she was on the computer with her glasses on, which she always wore when she was online. You know, folks, it's summertime, and that changes how I get dressed. You know, I want pieces that are breathable, easy, but still make me look put together. And that's why I just keep

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So, you know, you look at all these facts, right? The fact that Casey's glasses were damaged, she hadn't taken her shoes or coat. and her messages ended abruptly. That supported investigator's suspicion that she was abducted. Scott eventually fell asleep. Five hours after his last message, he received a message from Casey's account. Hey, Scott, are you there?

This is Eric. As soon as you get this, answer back, please. I have got to talk to you. Scott replied and explained that Casey just went silent in the middle of their conversation. It didn't seem like anything was wrong, and he noted that her last message was sent at 9.41 p.m. She hadn't talked about going anywhere that night. Eric confirmed Scott's real phone number and got his full name, age, and address.

Then Eric asked about Casey's chat with the school counselor and her conversation with date. According to Scott, he wrote, well, her and Sam have been having a fight. and they talked about it with the counselor. Then Sam told the counselor that she was dating me and she got lectured. Don't worry about Dave. He's just a good friend. I would have said something if I didn't think he was a good guy, but he's cool. He didn't know Dave's last name, only that he lived in San Diego.

Volunteers spent the night, searching the woods, surrounding the house. In the early morning hours, investigators issued a missing. person's alert for Casey. Later that morning, Casey's friend, Samantha and Jessica, were called to the guidance counselor's office to talk to the police. Samantha later recalled

to THV-11, I wanted to think that maybe she ran away or something, you know, and that she was going to come back. I never in my mind, my wildest imagination thought she had been kidnapped because that just doesn't happen here.

And how many times have we talked about it Gibbs you know in a a smaller town a town with relatively low crime at a certain point in time a lot of people left their doors unlocked they couldn't fathom you know like some big time serious crime like an abduction or a murder until one happened and then whatever that was that happened changed the whole community sure does right people start locking their doors. They buy more guns. They're more fearful for their safety. Not so friendly to strangers when they come in town. Yeah. That's just the way it happens. After the interview, Jessica and Samantha compared notes. Initially, Jessica and Samantha felt certain.

Scott was involved in Casey's disappearance. But then it occurred to Jessica. What if it was they? While the girls were being questioned at school, FBI agent Jerry Spurger's was searching Casey's bedroom, and he found two notes in her trash can. One note read, Casey Renee Woody loves David Leslie Fagan. The other note said Casey Renee Woody loves Scott G. The letters were numbered so Casey could compute the percentage of true love. in each relationship. Things you did back in those days, you know? Just like the old, uh,

was it a little origami thing or what? Oh, where you, uh, pulled it out and used your fingers and thumb. Yeah, I don't even remember what that was called, but then you flipped something up and you asked a question.

Yeah. People write in. Do you love me? I, I never did those. I didn't know how to make them, but so I don't really remember what they were called. Yeah.

You were just, the reason they were doing them. Does Mike love me? Exactly. Yes or no. Will we get married? Yes or no? But I think when you look at these notes,

it's pretty obvious that she had some feelings for both of these individuals. Now, what kind of feelings were there? She didn't really know them. But let's be honest, online, it is possible for you to feel like you do really know someone. Sure.

authorities had already established Scott's identity, but they still had no idea who Dave really was. FBI agents found Dave's Yahoo profile with the username Jazzman dash D.F. Jazz man. Almost like Jazz hands. Yes. He lived in San Diego and had registered with Yahoo under the name Dave Fagan, the same name in Casey's note.

That morning, Casey's friend, Samantha and Jessica, asked to talk to the police a second time because they had forgotten to tell the police about Dave during their first interview. They explained that Dave was Casey's ex-boyfriend, but she still talked to him regularly. He had been telling Casey that his aunt was dying.

Jessica also mentioned the November phone call where Dave said he was coming to Arkansas to see his aunt. Now, he said it, right? Dave never said he wanted to see. see Casey, but Samantha and Jessica felt certain that even if he had, Casey would not have agreed to meet him. The Arkansas State Police got involved and asked the Conway Police to Canvas for suspicious guess. Conway, which is south of Greenborough, is the biggest city in Faulkner County. Investigators were looking for Dave Fagan, David, anyone with the initials D.F. Or anyone from

California. They were on a manhunt. Detectives found a California man named David Fuller, registered at the motel 6. He arrived on December 2nd and was scheduled to stay for seven days. He asked housekeeping not to enter his room. There's a sign. Is it? Because I don't like housekeeping to enter my room either. And it's not because I have a body in there or something. I just don't want to take the chance that they're going to steal my laptop or, you know, steal my stuff. But you're like, don't worry about the sheets, towels, I got it. Well, especially if I'm staying at a Motel 6. You're probably bringing your own sheets and towels.

After I shine the black light, for sure. You and your black light. It's like a Jackson Pollock painting in here. You're no longer around my vehicle with that either, by the way. The manager at the hotel. told the police Fuller was angry. When he couldn't connect to the internet from his room, the manager opened the door to Fuller's room.

Inside, police found his suitcase, still packed, and a laptop on a table. The bed had not been slept in. Investigators also discovered that on December 2nd, Dave Fuller rented a silver minivan for seven days from the Enterprise in Conway. An employee recalled that Fuller was fidgety and repeatedly interrupted the paperwork process.

To go outside and smoke, the employee made a note of Fuller's California license plate and motel room number. His cell phone number was listed in the paperwork. Then afternoon, investigators learned that the number Casey had been calling was Dave Fuller's cell phone. He officially became the main suspect in Casey's abduction. A description of Fuller's minivan was sent out to the point.

police and the media. An investigator soon confirmed that Dave was David Leslie Fuller, a 47-year-old married father of two from California. There we have it. Predator. 47 years old, masquerading as a 17 or 18-year-old. I mean, what possible reason could someone have for doing that that didn't have some kind of twisted aspect to it. Right. Because I can't think of one. Nothing but bad intentions. But here's my thing, right?

If you're the investigators, if you are Casey's dad and you find all this out, I mean, especially her dad, where is your anxiety level at that point? Through the roof. Yeah. I don't know that it could get any higher.

Investigator subpoenaed the rental car paperwork, and they got Fuller's credit card number. His credit history showed that earlier that day, his card was charged by Guard Smart Storage. And Conway, he had traveled to Conway a month earlier to rent a unit. Investigators suspected he might be holding Casey there. The police received a report from a caller who said he was following a minivan that matched the description down University Avenue in Little Rock, police hoped Fuller was scared and fleeing and had left Casey alive in the storage unit. Trying to be positive.

Yeah, I mean, you have to be, right? At this point, a detective and two FBI agents arrived at the storage facility just after 5 p.m. They were led to Unit 313. The door was not padlocked and the latch was unfastened. The detective slowly lifted. the door. Inside the unit was a silver minivan with the engine still running. And then all of a sudden, a shot rang out. The detective and the agents dove for cover and called for backup. For the next three hours, law enforcement waited unsure if Casey and Fuller were alive. Just before 8.30 p.m.,

a SWAT team entered the unit. Dave Fuller was dead. His body was at the back of the storage unit, he had shot himself in the head with the 9mm, which was still in his hand. A few feet away in the back of the van was Casey's body. She was on her back with her wrists and ankles chained to the four corners of the van's floor. Fuller had removed the two back seats to make space for her body. Casey had been raped and shot in the head. There was a half-empty bottle of chloroform and a purple. rack next to her head. And to me, Gibbs, this is heartbreaking, but it's also the worst possible

outcome. Oh yeah. Yeah, it is. Number one, for investigators and especially for the family, you're hoping to find Casey a lot. Well, they don't. And unfortunately, she was murdered. but then the perpetrator takes his own life. Yeah, because he's afraid to deal with the consequences that we're going to come down. Oh, absolutely, right? He's a chicken shit. He is, a piece of shit. I think that's pretty evident.

But what it does is then it doesn't allow for, you know, them to interrogate him, find out all the reasons why and all that. you just lose a lot. And then also, you don't get to convict this guy, right? You don't get justice in the sense that a jury of his peers finds him guilty. There's got to be a little sadness in that part too. Now, some people might say, well, he's dead. I'm good with that.

But I would say by and large, most families probably don't think that way. They want to see actual justice. not the perpetrator ending their life before they have to face it. Yeah, they should be able to face the people that they caused harm to. The medical examiner later concluded that Casey had likely been unconscious from the time she was abducted until she was killed. Fuller had been in the storage unit since the night before. Throughout the day, he turned on the van to warm himself. He listened to radio reports and he knew the police were after.

him. The security box at the facility indicated Fuller arrived at 10.15 p.m. On December 3rd, which meant he had driven directly there. After abducting Casey, he left on foot around 7.30 a.m. the following morning to buy water and cigarettes. At a nearby convenience store, he was gone for just 21 minutes. And my thought is, he can't risk taking the van out because they're looking for the van. Right. Yeah, he can only go out on foot at this point. Detectives were unsure of Casey's exact time of death. In the aftermath, authorities heavily investigated Fuller's background.

He grew up in Salt Lake City and was raised in the LDS Church. After high school graduation, he played guitar and rock bands and was no longer interested in church. He got married at 19, but the marriage fell apart. In the early 80s, a bandmate's girlfriend introduced him to her sister, Sally. Sally had also married and divorced young. She was ready to settle down and have kids. Sally and Dave got married in 1983 and moved to Salt Lake City.

Sally worked as a commercial artist for an ad agency. Dave was a tow truck driver. In 1989, Dave joined the Navy Seabees. They moved around the car. country over the next several years and had two children. They later settled in La Mesa, California, and Dave got a job at a car dealership. Okay. I mean, it all sounds pretty normal to me. It does on the outside. But by May of 2001, Sally was deeply unhappy and she wanted out of the marriage. In their early years together, Sally and Dave did a lot of social drinking, which

mellowed Dave out. When he stopped drinking so often, his temper became unpredictable. Dave would brood. He would explode. Sally was afraid to dig into his past to see what triggered him. He always told her, I don't want to go there. Everything was fine. I had a good childhood. During their marriage, Dave was arrested for exposing himself to two young girls. He told Sally that he just stopped to ask them for directions, and they ran off screaming. But he never tried to defend himself in court. He skipped his court date and paid a fine for indecent exposure. That's because he probably pulled, you know what, out, and that's why they ran.

Yeah, but what's he going to tell his wife? No, I didn't do that. I just stopped to ask for directions. Also, why are you asking two young girls for directions? Exactly. That seems strange. Sally noticed that Dave was secretive. and spent hours on the computer.

He walked alone in the neighborhood at night so he could talk on his cell phone. But at a certain point, Sally no longer asked questions. But I do want to talk about one thing before we get too far away from it. You know, it's interesting that it was said that, you know, drinking kind of mellowed Dave out. But when he wasn't drinking, that's when his temper became unpredictable. because I think for a lot of people, it's the other way around. You know, when they drink is when maybe their temper can get out of control. But in his case, it's the opposite.

Yeah. I thought that was a little strange, but maybe it's not strange. Maybe it's normal for some people. Maybe when he's not drinking, he's thinking clearer thoughts and those thoughts are not good. You could have hit on something there. And then the other thing is at a certain point, you know, Sally's is not asking any questions. Well, she's not getting any answers. And she's also deeply unhappy.

She wants out of the marriage. So does she stop kind of caring, right? At a certain point, yeah, if you're going to go off and do your own thing, I'm just going to stop asking you about it. And maybe she's glad he's going out walking around instead of being at the house, being grumpy around her or yelling at her or whatever. That could be absolutely true. In June 2012, Dave took the kids to visit his parents. He and Sally got into an argument and he brought up divorce.

While they were gone, she attended a divorce workshop. And when he returned, she had done everything but filed. She thought Dave would be happy, but he was furious. Still, Sally was done with the marriage. she filed for divorce in July. Well, if you don't want to get a divorce, don't bring up getting a divorce during an argument. Because if the other person has been thinking about it,

man, you are just opening up the door. Oh, yeah. It's like I tell my wife. My next wife is not going to treat me like this. Uh-huh. And that goes over very well, I'm sure. I usually do it in front of you just because I know she's not going to come after me with you here.

Yeah. I don't do it when, uh, we're by ourselves. That's smart. Because I don't want to face the wrath. Because you would. And she knows I'm kidding, but she, for some reason, still doesn't like it. Well, you know, that's just one thing you don't tease about.

You would think after 30 years of marriage, she would know my sense of humor. Yeah, I still can't get your sense of humor either, so I don't know. Yeah, not many people can. In August of that year, CPS investigated a report that Dave was taking showers with his seven-year-old daughter. The agency got involved when Sally started asking questions. Investigators ultimately concluded nothing happened. But Sally was uneasy.

And frankly, I'm uneasy with it too. I get it. Parents might take showers with their kids when they're very, very little. Now, I would think most of the time it's dads and sons, moms and daughters. But by seven years old, Gibbs, I don't think a dad should be taking a shower with his daughter. No, at that time, there's no reason to be doing scrub a dub, however the rest of it goes.

Now, you know, if you want to sit next to the tub and help them or whatever, but being in the shower together, first of all, there's not a lot of room. There's no coverage of any body part. Yeah. So to me, that's a, that's a no go. He's a grown man. He should not be naked in the shower with his kids. Oh, absolutely. Dave moved into an apartment. But one night he showed up at the house and demanded Sally let him in. She refused and he pushed her aside and barged in. They argued and Sally locked herself in the bedroom with the kids. Dave used a screwdriver to pry open the door. Sally called the police and Dave was arrested for spousal abuse. Then Dave lost his job.

His bosses cited a lack of productivity for his firing, but they suspected Dave was visiting pornography sites on company computers. Well, you're on those porn sites, man. Time's going to get away from you. And clearly he was not being productive the way they wanted him to be productive. Well, and time getting away from you means it makes it harder to be productive. Yeah. But let's talk about, you know, the 2000s, right?

Today, in most companies, you can't even sniff those types of websites. No. There's filters. There's blocks. There's all this stuff. But in 2000, it was a little bit more wild, wild west like. Very true. I remember, you know, what was it?

2002, 2003. When you started RexWest.com, I mean, it was, it really was a free for all. no rules type of thing and it was good for you. It was. A few good years there, you know, before they came in and started blocking some of that stuff. And then the IRS came a knocking and it all went downhill. It did. Tumbled quickly. You didn't report all those donations you were getting.

Well, it was some, law was a little gray. Sally and Dave sold their house in September. She hoped the divorce would be finalized by the end of 2002. Dave called his mother on December 3rd. third of that year. During their conversation, he seemed fine. And he mentioned that Sally was in Utah, visiting family. He asked if Sally brought the kids over to see her. Dave then became emotional. He told his mom he loved her, something he never said first, and then he hung up. And neighbors noticed that Dave left his home shortly before December 3rd without giving a reason or a destination.

And I think you have to look at Dave's life at this point in time. It is spiraling downward very quickly. Very unstable. Right. His marriage has fallen apart. He's lost his job. The divorce is finalized. Let's not forget he was caught for indecent exposure.

Yeah. And he was on the computer at all hours. We can only surmise that during that period of time, he was in these chat rooms. Yeah, I think either in these chat rooms or, you know, getting his porn addiction time in. FBI agents in California searched Fuller's apartment and they found framed photos of Casey near his computer.

He also had a photo of Casey's friend Samantha and a picture of one of her other friends. His Yahoo buddy list included the names of multiple Greenbrier kids. Investigators learned that Fuller had been in chat rooms for at least two years and was targeting three other girls about Casey's age. The first girl lived in Michigan. She met Dave online in 2000. They talked every day. He was always a gentleman and they talked about things like school, friends, and family.

He asked for her number, but she said no and she refused his offers to fly her out to California. Dave never learned her real name. It's scary when you think about it. I mean, he's going to keep trying until someone bites. Well, this is the act of grooming, right?

Sometimes it can be a long process to get someone's guard down. The other thing that I find very interesting is it's not like he's focused on one person. He's casting a wide net. Yeah. He's going after a bunch of girls in this age range, almost to me, Gibbs, seeming like he's waiting for someone to take the bait and let their guard down.

Yeah, I think he's testing them to see if there's a possibility that he can and have them eventually come to him somehow, you know, like you said, by grooming them over time. Yeah, no doubt it's grooming. Now, I don't know if we called it grooming in 2000, 2001. We certainly do today, and we know a lot more about it. The second girl lived in Dallas. She met him online in March 2001. She had never given him her address.

But in March 2002, flowers from Dave showed up at her house. Her father was angry, and that was the end of her correspondence. That dad probably ripped that computer out of the wall. Yeah, maybe. A third girl lived in Pennsylvania. After making sure she was safe, agents didn't press for more details. Fuller's DNA was not linked to any other crimes in the national database. Investigators learned that Fuller made his first trip to Arkansas.

On October 11, 2002, he flew into Little Rock, rented a car, and drove to Conwood. No one is sure what he did during this trip, but police believe he spied on Casey. and watched her home. On October 15th, 2002, he sent an email to All-Tel Communications. I'm planning an extended trip to Arkansas, and the ISP I'm using doesn't have a local dial-up number there. Are you an actual ISP?

And if so, how do I get software and set up an account to use your service? On November 2nd, Fuller bought a gun. On the fourth, he returned to Arkansas, again renting a car and driving to Conway. Two days later, he rented a unit at Guard Smart Storage Facility. He told one of the on-site managers that he traveled to country, buying cars, and needed a place to temporarily store vehicles. On November 8th, he extended his stay at a motel. Authority suspected that he planned to abduct Casey during this trip.

But something stopped him. When he returned to California, he purchased chain, duct tape, and zip ties from his local Home Depot. He got chloroform from a chemical supply company. I didn't know it was that easy to get chloroform. Thinking back then it was, I don't know if it is today. I hope it's not. I don't know what all the legal uses for chloroform are, but I would assume that 90, whatever, percent of the population really doesn't need access to chloroform.

Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing. And no, if you find some, we cannot do a test with it to see how I respond. Oh my gosh, that would be awesome on Patreon though. Just think about it. It'd be like the horrible bosses scene when Jennifer Aniston puts him out. Oh, yeah. I would take all kinds of weird pictures. Oh, yeah.

I'd wake up hours later not knowing anything. Yeah. Yeah. But here's the thing, Gibbs. Police believed Casey was the quote-unquote perfect victim because she was trusting and she gave Fuller her real name, address, phone number, and photos of herself. He gained her trust and sympathy with the fake story about his aunt. And we said it earlier on. I think she even gave him photos of some of her friends. In 2003, Fuller's ex-wife, Sally, spoke to the Arkansas.

and saw Democrat Gazette and said she now recognized the red flag she missed. Dave's late nights wandering the neighborhood, his anger when she suggested moving the computer out of his bedroom, his insistence on separate internet passwords and emails, and the framed photo of a young girl in his apartment. Well, that should have been a pretty quick red flag, right? I would think so, but, you know, they're broken up by that. that point. Yeah. So I don't know. Now, I think today it's pretty common for people to have

separate emails, separate passwords. Yeah. But things were a little different back in the days of dialogue. I think most people just had one service. Yeah, called America Online. AOL. Yeah, I think it was America Online, not American Online, but yeah, you're correct. Remember, they would send you like five CDs a week. Oh, I know. Trying to get you to sign up. I mean, every day you walked out to the mailbox, there was another CD. You're like, leave me alone, man. I already have AOL. Stop sending me CDs. Yeah, quit sending those to me. I'm going to sign up a copy serve. Sally said about her reaction to his arrest, I was not as surprised as I could have been because of how I saw him deteriorate, I guess I had this feeling. He's going to crash. He's just going to crash.

And maybe she just didn't know exactly how he was going to crash. Yeah. But she felt like, you know, he was, it wasn't going to be good, but I'm sure she had no idea it was going to be this bad. I wouldn't think so. She probably just saw somebody spiring out of control and wanted to stay clear. Casey's father, Rick Woody allowed federal and state authorities. to share Casey's story in a nationwide effort to train law enforcement and educate parents. He told the Democrat Gazette, I can't let this be meaningless. I've got to make it do somebody some good. I mean, that's great because maybe by doing that, you save another girl's life.

And in a way, Casey saves another girl's life. Yes. Right? If you're the family, I think a lot of, of the families, that's how they look at it. You know, if we do something in her name, it's like her spirit carries on and she's still doing good things. Yeah, because you know there's girls out there doing the same thing she was doing thinking, I'm not worried, nothing's going to happen to me. I know my parents are all being weird about it. And then they hear this story and they're like,

yeah, I'm going to shut this down now. Because this can happen. Yeah. According to THV, 11, it was the first time in Arkansas history that police encountered internet stalking of a minor to such an extent. Former Faulkner County Sheriff Marty Montgomery recalled, we didn't have the resources at that point in time to hire a specialist to do computer crimes because it was new. It was something that our case kind of kicked the door down. Man, think about today with computer forensics. Yeah, and cybercrime, don't. departments. Some places have whole squads of people, you know, devoted to cybercrimes.

Casey's friend, Samantha Davis and Jessica Bradford continue to share Casey's story to keep others safe. Samantha told THV-11, there was no education for us. And there's a lot of education out there now. It's not just a story because guess what? It happened right here. It happened to my friend. It happened to me. Jessica added, parents really just need to be in-depth and nosy. Their kids are going to hate it, but know the passwords and know your kids as friends because I always think if Casey's dad hadn't known Casey's friends, the investigation would have stalled out somewhere. And as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, it's a tragic case, but it is also one of those cases

that I'm sure led to a lot of talks between parents and kids. I'm sure a lot of kids also, like you just said, maybe lost that, oh, it'll never happen to me feeling. Right. And started to make sure that they safeguarded their information online a little bit more. But it is a fine line, right, about being too nosy,

not being nosy enough. but for me, you know, if I got to air on the side of caution, I'm going nosy. Same here. Yep. Got to protect your kids. And maybe one day they'll appreciate it. It won't be right then and there. I can tell you that. Oh, of course not. No, you'll be the worst parent ever. Yeah. But maybe later on.

But that's it for our episode on Casey Woody. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out? Let's hear it. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Al from Massachusetts. the Adams, Massachusetts area. And I am rehashing the true crime all the time, Unsolved podcast, and listened again to the Molly Bish episode. And I have a dear friend that lives in Massachusetts who her sister had been murdered.

Lisa Ziegert, you should check out that crime. the amazing way that it had been solved after so many years and the love that the family had for their daughter and sister and how they would never let it rest and how a lot of the local people, some of them were suspects for years and could not get out from under that shadow. But anyway, you guys are great. I'm not team Givy. I'm not team Mike. I'm team true crime. You guys are one of the best podcasts on social media. Love you guys.

Talk to you soon. Bye. All right. Love you too, brother. And appreciate all the kudos. It really means a lot. Absolutely, man. I'd like to hear that.

Yeah. And also that case does sound fascinating. So we're going to write it down and we'll check it out. Yeah. We had some mailbag Gibbs. Okay. Lori Guattriochi sent us in some Harley poker chips. And Charles Thompson sent a big old package all the way from Scotland.

All right. There's some football stuff in there. Yeah. Some flag, some candy, some Scottish drinks, I think. Oh, is it? Chocolate. There's a lot. Right up here out of you.

Scottish person you. I know. As I always say, if it's not Scottish, It's crop. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.