True Crime All The Time - Kenneth McDuff

Episode Date: May 2, 2022

Kenneth McDuff was a Texas serial killer known as “the broomstick killer.” In 1966 he murdered three innocent teenagers. Much to the public’s horror, he was released on parole in 1989. McDuff would go on to rape and kill more women. In total, he is suspected of as many as 14 murders. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss serial killer Kenneth McDuff. McDuff was the only Texas death row inmate to be released on parole and then return to death row. This was a man who just could not walk the straight and narrow, even after he was paroled after a death sentence. His crimes were horrific and every time he was caught he found someone to try to blame for his actions.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 281 of the True Crime All The Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson. Givby, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good about yourself. I'm doing really well. You and I are recording early. This will come out after CrimeCon ends that night. We'll be getting ready to fly home. But we've got to tape early, get everything ready. I'm getting really excited, man. Getting pumped up. I am. I'm sure we'll meet a lot. lot of great people will have a good time. It's kind of hard probably not to have a good time in Vegas. Yeah, I think it's going to be a good, good time. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Dana Woon. Hey, Dana. Elizabeth jumped out at our highest level. What's going on, Elizabeth? Ceda, hey, Ceda. Hey, Ceda. Julie D. Dominique White. What's up, Dominique? Joy Miller. They appreciate that, Joy. Todd Peterman. What's happening in Peterman? Patty Hester. Hey, Hester. Stephanie Williams. Well, hi, Stephie. Kelsey Reed. Hey, thanks Kelsey.

Brian Papal Grub. What's up, Pat Paul? Michelle O'Hood. Hey, O'Rood. Caroline Asher. Appreciate that, Caroline. Paul McDermott. Hey, there's Paul.

And last but not least, Randy Shea. Well, good old Randy. So we appreciate that new support. And then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected PR. Hey, PR. So we appreciate that long-term support as well. We had some great PayPal donations from Irene, Nikita, Hey, Irina.

Lisa Payne. Hey, Lisa. And Karen Loy. Hey, appreciate that, Karen. So thanks to everyone. Gibbs right now on true crime all the time unsolved. We have an episode out on Daniel Morgan. That's a good case.

It takes place over in England. So we get to, you know, go on the other side of the pond, as you would say. Have some fish and chips. Yeah. Practice your accent. But this is one that will definitely have a lot of rabbit holes to go down. and I think most people would say, we know who probably did this,

but they can't lock it down. So we're discussed some other possibilities. Yeah, to good case, definitely check that out. Gibbs, we also just dropped a brand new Patreon-only episode. It's our 44th. It's on Jim Adkison. This is a guy who walked into a Knoxville church and opened fire, but it's the reason why.

It was all around his political leanings and his hatred for those who believe differently than he did. But it's a good episode. If you're a Patreon member, check it out. If you're not, now's a great time to sign up. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? I'm ready. We are talking about serial killer Kenneth McDuff. McDuff was a Texas serial killer known as the broomstick killer.

In 1966, he murdered three innocent teenagers. And then Gibbs people were horrified when he was released on parole in 1989, even more horrified when they found out that he went on to rape and kill more women. In total, he suspected of as many as 14 murders. So right off the bat, I know there's going to be some outrage, right? We're going to be talking about a guy who got out of prison. Right. And went on to do.

horrible, horrible thing. Very shocking. Kenneth Allen McDuff was born on March 21st, 1946 in central Texas. He grew up in Rosebud, Texas. McDuff had five siblings. His parents were J.A. McDuff and Addy McDuff. Jay A worked as a cement finisher, a job I know that you've done in your past. Not an easy job. No, pretty tough job, actually, but you were really good at it. I was. Texas Monthly described. Addie McDuff as a large domineering woman who ruled over her four daughters and two sons, maintained the family purse and operated a washeteria across the street from the family home. Washeteria. Yeah. They said,

J.A. was a tight-lipped man who went about his business and left the family matters to his wife. Well, you got to do what works for each other. Yeah, you know, the dynamics of a marriage, always kind of interesting, right? How it works. It works differently with every marriage. I do leave kind of the family finances up to my wife. She takes care of all that stuff, leaves me out of it. Now, it does allow her to do quite a bit of shopping under the radar.

Sure. Which may not be the best thing in the world. But she's a really good saver. So there's this weird dichotomy. It bounces out. It always bounces out. Kenneth's older brother Lonnie was a troublemaker. He once pulled a knife on the school principal and he was thrown down the stairs as

punishment. Okay. Now, we've talked about paddling, right? As punishment back in the day. I've never actually heard of a kid being thrown down the stairs. I didn't say who threw him down the stairs. It's one way to get their attention. That's a, that's a pretty rough form of punishment.

Lonnie referred to himself as rough, tough Lonnie McDuff. That sounds like some kind of nickname that you would come up for yourself or one of your onstage persones. Well, kind of close. Kind of close. When Kenneth was in prison for murder, Lonnie was shot to death by the ex-husband of a woman he was dating. The McDuff family were viewed as a little lot, but were said to be hardworking, church-going

people. Texas monthly newspaper editor John Kilgore wrote, the McDuffs were very dedicated to their children, attentive, protective, making sure they grew up knowing how to work and work hard. But Addy was known around town as the pistol-packing mama because she always carried a gun and she had some violent tendencies. Pistol packing. Well, we are in Texas. We are. That's true. And, you know, by and large, there are a lot of people who carry in Texas. According to Texas monthly, Addie and McDuff's sisters lavished attention on Kenneth and treated him as though he were a young god.

That's what they wrote. He was above the rules his siblings had to follow. Even though he had a younger sister, he was considered the baby of the family. His classmates later recalled that Kenneth always had cash and he always had new clothes. So I think you can take from that, that, whether it's true or not, you can take from that that maybe he was the favorite child,

got a little bit more than the others. The mama's boy? Maybe mama's boy. But to me, those are two different things. Mama's boy and kind of the golden child. I kind of view those as two. They can be both. They can be.

Addie even bought him a motorcycle when he was old enough to drive. But even though his mother doted on him and supported him, after his convictions, his father, J.A. would later change his mind about his son. According to Texas Monthly, when Kenneth was charged with three murders, J.A. McDuff said, if I believed he did what you say, the state wouldn't have to kill him. I'd do it myself. So he might have been the golden child at one point, but obviously his dad saying this, you know, if this is true, the state won't have to kill him. Right.

I'll do it myself. Yeah, because he ain't no sign of mine. I don't think there's any Dow Gibbs. Kenneth McDuff was a bully. He even liked to intimidate his teachers. He tricked his classmates into gambling on coin flips to take their lunch money. He had an estimated IQ of 92. So, you know, he's above the threshold.

He wasn't a rocket scientist or anything like that. But, you know, he had a. a decent IQ. Whenever he failed the test, he made sure everyone knew about it. And he, I guess he had this habit of joking that he failed on purpose. You know, he didn't care about his grades. He also had this strange habit of bursting into what was called like a maniacal type of laughter. Yeah. But then all of a sudden, he would just start glaring at his fellow classmates. Freak you out a little bit. I think so. Thinking of like the Joker's laugh.

Yeah. Like that movie with, uh, Joaquin Phoenix. Yes. Okay. Yeah. How he's laughing on the bus or the,

the subway, just random laughter. And then all of a sudden it's super serious and, but I want to, you know, I want to go back to the joking about the grades. You know, was that real?

Did he not care? Or was he not able to keep up? He wasn't able to, you know, get the grades. So that became kind of his go to. His cover. His cover.

McDuff's prison file noted, if any problem arose at school, the school was to blame and Kenneth was completely innocent. If any teacher or administrator tried to discipline him, Addy came to the school, sometimes with her pistol. All of the teachers were afraid of her. Addie once allegedly flagged down a school bus with her gun. She gave the driver a tongue lashing for throwing Kenneth off the bus for fighting. So the first thing that springs to mind is the mom on Goldbergs. Yeah. I don't know if you watch Goldberg.

I've seen it. But, you know, if anything is going on to school, she's down there in a flash. Now, she's not trying to hurt anybody. She's not carrying a pistol or threatening people, but she's going down and is sometimes trying to intimidate the principal or whatever into doing what she wants them to do. You know, this is to a whole different level, though. You almost would not want this kid in your class, you know? Oh, I don't think any of the teachers would have wanted him in their class.

I mean, if he's trying to intimidate them, no doubt he's making it hard to teach, right? My wife's a teacher. I've talked about it. She's had problem kids over the years. And, you know, obviously that can be a very trying school year, especially if you've got more than one. When he was in the eighth grade, McDuff challenged a kid named Tommy Salmon, one of the most popular boys in school to a fight. McDuff had been trying to get him to fight all year.

Apparently he bumped into Tommy in the hallway, called him chicken shit in front of his friends, and then Tommy finally agreed to fight him. So you remember what this was like in school. Gibbs when we were there back in the day. I don't know how much this happens nowadays, but, you know, whenever there was word of a fight that spread around the school, it was. was like the biggest thing. Yeah. You know, everybody wanted to know what time it was. They wanted to be there. They wanted to see it. And that's essentially what happened here. But this fight only lasted a few

minutes. Kenneth bit Tommy when Tommy got him in a headlock. But Tommy overpowered him and really kind of kicked his ass. And it was after this that Kenneth never bullied anyone else. A few months later, he dropped out and went to work with his father. So, you know, did he think he was tough? Obviously, he must have. Right. But he got put in his place. He did. I mean, I think this kid kicked his ass. And I think after it, you know, maybe he didn't want to show his face in school anymore. He was probably embarrassed. Well, I'm guessing he probably was because who's going to be afraid of him on that level they were prior? They've seen him get his ass kicked. Well, and it wasn't like he got his ass kick defending himself. He's the one that wanted this fight. He egged it on.

He was the aggressor. He was the aggressor. And then, you know, he got his, you know what handed to him. Then you've seen it in movies. You see him when that bully, everybody's afraid of him. And then he has that fight. He loses. And then you see him the next day, everybody's like laughing at him. Yeah. His whole kind of demeanor changes. By the time Kenneth was a teenager, the local sheriff knew him pretty well. We talked about his brother Lonnie already. Lonnie was Kenneth's closest friend. He told his older brother everything. In the fall of 1964, Kenneth confessed to Lonnie that he had once raped a woman, cut her throat, and left her for dead. And Lonnie told him he should just forget about the whole thing. So there's a conversation most brothers don't have. No, I can't

imagine too many have had that type of conversation. It really wasn't long after this that Kenneth was sent to prison for burglary. The rape and attempted murder were never reported to police. But in 1964 Gibbs, he must have been about 18 years old. So he's saying this happened before that. We don't know exactly how old he was, but he started pretty young with murder. On February 4th, 1965, Kenneth was convicted of 12 counts of burglary, an attempted burglary, he received 12, 4-year prison terms to be served concurrently.

The sheriff thought that he was going to be in prison for a long time. There must have been a couple of other years tacked on because in total, the charges added up to 52 years. But because Kenneth was only 18, his sentences would run concurrently. They got off lucky. Oh, yeah. And I mean really lucky because he was parole. on December 27th,

1965. So not only did he not do 12, four year sentences, he didn't even do a one four year sentence, which is what he should have done, you know, concurrently. He served about a year and was parole.

Texas Monthly wrote, Kenneth McDuff underwent a subtle but deadly change. Following that first parole, the belief that he had committed murder and gotten away with it, coupled with this short kind of easy prison term. I think emboldened him, right? It kind of served for him pulling more than a dozen burglaries. It also hardened him. He had done some time. And it gave him what they called an exaggerated

sense of invulnerability. Sure. He thought, look, I did this. I did that. And basically, they just slapped me on my hand. Yeah. I mean, nobody knew about the murder other than his brother, I don't believe, at this point. But he had gotten away with it. He had gotten away with it. He was. He was with it. Yeah, I think he probably felt somewhat invincible. Yeah. So if I got away with that, I could probably get away with another one. Then he did get caught for these burglaries and did, you know, hardly anything. He basically got a slap on the wrist. So, you know, we talk about it quite a bit. What does that do? You know, when a criminal is kind of laying out the risk and reward. Well, they know what the reward is. Right. And they've kind of been taught that the risk is very low.

I've gotten away with a bunch. And even if I do get caught, I'm not going to do much time. Right. So why should I stop? Why should I change courts? Yeah, there's no risk really for me. It was sad Gibbs that McDuff learned in prison how to get smaller and weaker men to do his bidding. He used his skills to influence 17 year old Roy Dale Green, who worked for J.A. McDuff. Green was mesmerized by McDuff's tales of having sadistic sex. McDuff bragged that he had raped and strangled several women. He allegedly told Green, killing a woman's like killing a chicken. They both squawk.

That's stomach turning. It really is. That's how he thought. Well, I think it is how he thought, but it's stomach turning to think that, you know, someone is going to say that and be proud about it. Right. Now, the flip side of that is now you have this 17-year-old kid who's mesmerized by this talk. You know, he's seeing Kenneth McDuff as kind of a larger-than-life person.

This guy's doing some of the things that maybe I want to do. Yeah, now he's being influenced, right? Yeah, exactly. On August 6, 1966, Kenneth McDuff murdered three teenagers. McDuff and Green worked all morning, pouring concrete at a construction, site. After work, they drove McDuff's new Dodge Charger to Fort Worth. McDuff said he knew some girls in the area. They drove through Everman to drink beer and visit with friends. They picked up a girl Kenneth knew from church and they dropped her off later

that night. But McDuff wanted to keep driving around. So these two guys were driving around when they came across a car parked near a baseball diamond. McDuff saw a girl talking to two. And boys and in 1955 Ford. That girl was 16-year-old Edna Louise. Inside the car were 17-year-old Robert Brand, who was Edna's boyfriend, and 15-year-old Marcus Dunham, who was Robert's cousin. McDuff took a 38 pistol from under his seat, and he walked over to them. He demanded that the boys hand over their wallets. He forced them all to get into the trunk of the car, and he locked them in. But then he told Green, who was with him, they got a good look at my face. I'll have to kill them.

So McDuff drove the Ford while Green drove the Dodge. McDuff stopped in a field. He ordered Edna to get out of the car. He told Green to lock her in the trunk of the Dodge. The boys begged Kenneth not to shoot them, but he did. He shot Robert twice and shot Marcus four times. Yeah, he wasn't joking. No, he wasn't joking around.

You didn't want any witnesses. They backed the Ford up against the fence and they left the trunk open because it wouldn't shut. Then McDuff and Green drove away in the Dodge with Edna still locked in the trunk. They stopped at a dirt road about 11 miles away from this field. McDuff forced Edna to undress. And then he and Green raped her several times. McDuff drove to another remote gravel road. Green watched as McDuff.

forced Edna's head to the ground and began choking her with a broomstick. He ordered Green to hold her legs down. After they killed Edna, they threw her body over a fence. They left and stopped to bury the boy's wallets and throw away their underwear. So, I mean, this was a very brutal set of murders. Yeah, both these guys were sick. Kenneth McDuff, we know, is a killer. You know, I think what is kind of fascinating in this scenario is how he was able to get this 17-year-old kid to kind of go along with him to do what he wanted to do.

Well, he learned that trait in prison, right? How to take a weak individual and make them do things that you want them to do, influence them. This kid, this green, looked up to him, like he said. But why? That's my question. Why would you look up to a guy like Kenneth McDuff who's talking about, you know, sadistic stuff, sex, rape, murder? Well, clearly this kid had his own issues. He must have.

And the fact that McDuff gave him the time of the day paid attention to him in the wrong way, but still gave him attention. I think he idolized him for the time of the day. that. Yeah, I think you're right, but it still intrigues me how individuals can get others to go along with, you know, what they want them to do. We're not talking about a used car salesman trying to sell you something that's overpriced. We're talking about a rapist and murderer talking you into doing some of those same things. So I do kind of agree with you that maybe, you know, this green kid already had some of those ideas floating around in his head. And once he heard McDuff talking about it, okay, now maybe I can make what may have been

some of my fantasies a reality. Right. We don't know any of that for sure. But I think one thing that might be kind of telling is that the next day, Green heard the news of the murders on the radio. And Gibbs, he felt so guilty that he turned himself. in. In exchange for testimony, he got a lesser sentence. Green only served about four months, house arrest, and then five years probation. So his common sense finally kicked in. Yeah, I don't know

if you call it common sense or you just call it a massive amount of guilt. You would like to have had him walk away from the start. But I do kind of want to talk about the sentence. I get it. This kid is only 17 years old. But this was extremely brutal. Now, he didn't shoot the two boys, but he did rape Edna. Right. And you're telling me you're only going to get four months of house arrest. We're not even talking about juvenile detention. And he did hold her legs while McDuff killed her.

Yeah. So, I mean, he obviously, no doubt about it, played a part in both the rape and the murder. Sheriff Brady Pamplin arrested McDuff shortly after. Green's confession, but Duff wasn't going to go easy. The sheriff had to shoot his car because McDuff tried to escape. They finally did get him and arrest him. You know, oftentimes it can be very hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel when you have high interest debt.

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She said that Sheriff Brady Pamplin added in for her son. She told reporters at Texas Monthly that Kenneth was with a girl from church at the time of the murders, but he was willing to risk the death penalty to spare her reputation by not giving information about her. She said he's too good for his own good. Well, there's a mother's love right there. Not willing to see what's right in front of her. Well, that's a mother's love with rose colored glasses. Right.

Because I'm assuming she got that information from Kenneth, right? He told his mom, hey, it couldn't have been me. I was with this girl from church. I'm a good church boy. But I don't want to give any information about this girl. I don't want to, you know, drag her name through the mud. And so because of that, I can't prove my alibi. Right.

So I have to go to trial. What kind of killer does that? You and I talk about it all the time. Most killers, the first thing they do is try to throw somebody under the bus. Right. And what would he be doing? He was out with her. He doesn't have to say that she was doing anything wrong or she was just with him and she

could corroborate it. But we both know Gibbs. why he doesn't want to say her name. There was no girl. Exactly. There is nobody too corroborated. But he has to have his mom think he's the good son, right, to keep her on his side. Green testified that McDuff shot the boys in a field and forced him to rape Edna.

McDuff told him that Edna was not his first victim. So that might have been part of the reason why Green got off. as light as he did. Number one, he's cooperating. Yeah. And, you know, he's testifying against McDuff. But he's also told the police that he didn't do any of the things he did willingly, right? He's saying Kenneth McDuff forced him to do it.

We don't know if that's true or not. But McDuff's defense argued that he didn't know anything about the murders. And Green was responsible for everything. So it seems to me like their defense was to try to create a he said, he said type of scenario. You know, who's telling the truth? Who do you believe? Well, it's pretty obvious who the jury believed because on November 15th, McDowth was found guilty of murdering Robert Brand and sentenced to death by a jury.

His execution was set for October 9th, 1968. But then Gibbs, as we all know in 1972, the U.S. Supreme Court abolished the death penalty So McDuff's sentence was commuted to life in prison on August 29th, 1972. After his sentence was commuted, the parole law made him eligible for release in 1976. I mean, it's one of the things that really drew me to this case. Yeah, fascinating. No, it did.

It fascinated me because, you know, you got, you had a guy who killed was sentenced to death. And as we'll find out, is a. eventually going to get out. Yeah. Now in Texas, you had to get at least two out of three votes from the parole board to be granted parole. McDuff was denied parole in 1976. That seems like a no-brainer to me. You were sentenced to death four years earlier. We can't let you out. Yeah, well, hopefully nobody voted for him to get out. I would be real surprised if if a single person voted for him. Over the years, McDuff earned a reputation in the general population. He was feared by a lot of inmates,

but also respected by guards to a degree that he could influence who his cellmate was. So obviously he chose somebody that could provide him with the things he wanted, sex, drugs. And it was said that he regularly stored drugs in a red balloon that was inserted in his red balloon. that was inserted in his rectum. Rectum damn near killed them.

How do I have a feeling you were going to say that? Now listen, I understand people have to do what they have to do in prison. I just can't imagine myself doing that. It's not really something that I want to imagine, but... Putting a balloon up your rectum? Am I keister? Keyster. No, I don't think I'd be a good keisterer.

Yeah. If that's a word. So he's doing all this stuff, but he also enrolled in correspondence. courses to impress the parole board. So you can just imagine he's sitting there, you know, doing his work, right, at a table all the while he's got a bunch of drugs, balloons up inside of his bum. Kind of like rocking back and forth, making sure it just stays where it needs to stay. Well, you know, to me, the big thing is the balloon breaking.

Yeah. Right. I think we've heard that before. That balloon breaks. You got a bunch of, depending on what type of drug it is. My understanding is it gets absorbed into your system so quickly. Sure. That a lot of times you would die.

I'm just wondering how that handoff goes later. You're like, hey. You mean the handoff. Yeah. Well, hopefully there's some washing involved. I don't know. In 1977, Addy McDuff hired a new lawyer for Kenneth. Attorney Gary Jackson began a campaign to shift all the blame to Roy Dale Green.

And from what I understood Gibbs, Jackson had actually never practiced criminal law before, but he became heavily involved in this case. He looked through trial records, newspapers, he interviewed witnesses. In 1989, Gary Jackson started Justice for McDuff Incorporated. There were talks of possible book and movie deals. He later stopped working for McDuff in the 1990s. But in 1970s, but in 1970s, In 1979, Jackson wrote a 26-page letter to the Board of Pardons and Paroles to present what he

called dramatic new evidence. McDuff testified at his trial that on August 6, 1966, he gave Green the keys to his car so that Green could go on a date. But Green actually used the car for a robbery. McDuff said that he waited for Green at a shopping center in Everman. Jackson had to answer. answer the question of how Green drove both vehicles that night. What he did was he came up with a theory that Green and the teenagers met earlier that night to drink in the field where the boys were found.

Green left the Dodge behind and drove the Ford to buy more beer. They drank together at the location where Edna was found. Green forced them into the trunk and raped Edna. The boys forced their way out of the trunk, Green jumped out of the car and shot them six times, using all his bullets. He was then forced to strangle Edna with the broomstick. He left her in the road and then drove the boys' bodies back to the field. He picked up the Dodge and then drove to get McDuff. And I think what was interesting about this scenario Gibbs is that it put the murders in another county. Yeah. Different or out of the jurisdiction that prosecuted McDuff. So, you know, this guy is concocting or, you know, weaving together a story. It didn't work. It failed. In 1979 and

1980, McDuff only got one of the two votes that he needed for parole. So, you know, we're still not that far on, right? 72 to 79 80s, that's seven, eight years. That's seven, eight years. You know, years. Right. One person voted to parole this guy. Yeah, and this guy was supposed to be put to death. In 1980, Gary Jackson alleged in a writ of habeas corpus incidents of jury misconduct and tampering. Now, this rumor had surfaced back in 1966. A juror was accused of carrying a flask into the dorm where the jury was quartered. Another story alleged that the sheriff came to the dorm and told jurors about another crime. McDough was suspected of.

Bayliff Rosemory Anderson leaked this story to the Fort Worth Press. And then apparently she fled to Arizona because she claimed the sheriff threatened her for speaking up. Gary Jackson ended up finding Rosemary

Anderson and he put her statement in an affidavit. In 1981, Kenneth requested to be interviewed by parole board member Glenn Heckman, who was appointed by the governor in January 1980. When they were alone, McDuff said, if you can get me out of this pen, I guarantee that $10,000 will be left in the glove compartment of your car.

I know you're the governor's man. Word is, I get your vote. I'm out of here. My family's got the money. Heckman said he would think about it. Then he went to the DA to report McDuff. It's a little bribery, huh? Sure.

Yeah. A little bit. I mean, $10,000 is nothing to sneeze at in 1981. What can I do for you to get me out of here today? What I think that shows you, Gibbs, is how important it is to have extremely honest people in those types of position. Absolutely. It's actually something that I've really never thought about before. Now, this is a very small parole board.

There's three people, three people to vote. Yeah. You need two of those votes. I mean, how many bribes do you think that these people were offered? I guess they seen their fair share. And then you wonder if any of them, you know, crossed the line and took any of those bribes. I'm not saying they did. I'm not trying to indict anybody, but you have to ask the question.

It's a very kind of sensitive position where, you know, a family, a loved one, a mom, a dad, a business associate, if you're in some kind of racket. Yeah. They're going to do just about anything maybe to try to get their loved one out. Sure. There was a movie with De Niro in it where he played the, like a parole officer, somebody that made the decision and Ed Norton wanted to get out and he had his girlfriend seduce De Niro to get his vote to.

What was that movie called? I don't know. And I can't help you because that is not ringing a bell with me. Yeah. It was a good movie. It sounds vaguely familiar. But now the entire audience is left hanging because you can't give them the name of the movie. Yeah, I can't.

Now everybody's rushing to their phone or computer to look it up. And I will get 1,000 emails saying, this is the name of the movie. Thank you. Mr. Gibson. Hey, you're welcome. In 1982, McDuff was convicted of bribery after he offered the 10,000. $10,000. He got two years added to a sentence, but he already had two years of good time credits. So essentially, it was a wash, right? This additional sentence had no effect on his overall time in prison.

So he probably said, you know what? Let me try this out. What I got to lose? Well, again, we go back to risk and reward. Also, you know, think about it, a guy that goes from death row to now earning good time credit. McDuff got an evidentiary hearing in 1982, but the court didn't find his evidence credible. He wrote his own letters to the appeals court in Austin to allege that his trial judge accepted $750,000 from the mafia. I have no idea where he came up with that one, but seems extreme. I guess he was just out to try whatever he could. Yeah.

He came up for parole in both 1984 and 1985, again, received. one vote each time. I didn't realize that people came up for parole every year. I know it varies by state and it varies by time. It has changed over time. It was around this time though that Texas was passing tough on crime laws. But at the same time, they didn't have the prison space to accommodate new inmates. A federal judge ruled that overcrowding was unconstitutional and took control of Texas prisons. State officials increased good time credits. They began releasing more inmates on parole and paroled some inmates before they even went to prison. Imagine that. All right, we're going to sentence you to 20 years, but you're going to be paroled today before you ever get there.

So from what I understand, Texas prisons were so overcrowded that they were forced to release inmates like Kenneth McDuff. It just drives me crazy. It wasn't there some type of of check list or checks and balances. This is definitely not somebody we want back on the street. He was sentenced to death, but we got rid of that. So he's got to stay here for the rest of his life. You would think in 1988, Kenneth received two out of three votes from the parole board. But the approval was rescinded when the board got new information.

But then just the next year, in 1989, he was granted parole. and he was released on October 11th, 1989. I bet his mom was happy. I'm sure his mom was happy. So what did he do? 17 years, a guy that was on death row, didn't get a new trial, didn't get, you know, his conviction overturned ended up doing 17 years. Three murders.

Three murders and a very brutal rape. Sheriff Larry Pamplin made a statement on the day that Kenneth was released. he said, I don't know if it'll be next week or next month or next year, but one of these days, dead girls are going to start turning up. And when that happens, the man you need to look for is Kenneth McDuff. Well, he was a very smart person. And he's going to turn out to be very, very correct. The city of Rosebud was terrified when they heard that McDuff was coming back.

Apparently Gibbs, he had sworn to kill one person for every day. he spent in prison. So not surprising, right, that this town, this is going to be on edge. This is the town where he had terrorized his fellow classmates. So you know that those people, his childhood enemies, were very fearful that they were going to be on his hit list. Right. But for a few months, it seemed like McDuff was a changed man.

He got a job at a gas station. He didn't act on his threats to kill. kill anyone, but he wasn't reformed by prison. He was convicted of several parole violations, including public drunkenness, assault, and a DUI. But there was nothing about, you know, sending him back to prison. What were they going to send him? They're overcrowded. Yeah. And maybe that played into it. I don't know. In July 1990, McDuff was arrested for making a terroristic threat. He said some racial slurs to a group of black teenagers in downtown Rosebud. These kids had done nothing to him.

They were just standing there on the street, mining their own business. McDuff chased one of them down an alley with a knife and threatened to kill him. Texas Monthly wrote that at his hearing, McDuff spewed forth his loathing for blacks with such intensity that Gary Jackson had to shout at his client to prevent him from doing additional damage to his claim of innocence. So this is a guy that you would assume would rather not go back to prison. Right. But yet he can't stop himself in a court proceeding from making a bunch of racial slurs.

Because he's a dumbass. Well, he is a dumbass. I think that's the best word for it. But this did cause him to return to prison for a parole violation on October 11th, 1990. Falls County, though, chose to drop the charges because witnesses were reluctant to testify. The DA wrote to the parole board to let them know that Duff was a quote, continuing menace and the most extraordinarily violent criminal ever to set foot in Falls County. This is what they wrote to the parole board. That's a big statement. But I'm not shocked that the, you know, the teenagers decided not to testify.

by. I'm sure they were scared to death. Sure. Knowing his history. This is the boogeyman. Everybody in the county's talking about, oh, they let McDuff out. Now McDuff is threatening you and you're going to get up on the stand. They're like, that's okay. That's a tough decision. His attorney, Gary Jackson, filed a motion to have McDuff's parole reinstated. The board never made a formal decision. Instead, a hearing officer decided to release him.

So McDuff was released on December 6, 1990. He was essentially there for like two months, Gibbs. Just like that. In the spring of 1991, McDuff rolled in Texas State Technical College in Waco. He moved into a dorm on campus. How would you like to get this guy as your roommate? You show up to school for your first day of college. And there's old Kenneth McDuff sitting in the bunk next to you.

Not somebody I would want to bunk with. Not to mention by this point, he's like 45 years old. Right. So first of all, you got the 45-year-old guy. And then at some point, maybe you do a little background check and figure out that this guy is the devil. Bezos, Kerry. But hey, maybe he taught his roommate how to keest or something. But you don't need to keest or something in college, do you?

Maybe he thought he needed to keester something. Oh, okay. It doesn't seem like a skill that most people outside of prison really need to concern them. themselves with. You think the key string should stop? I think it should. Yeah. But basically in the months following McDuff's arrival at this college, several sex workers went missing from the area. Suspicious. On December 30th, 1991, McDuff and accomplice Alva Hank Worley were driving around Austin looking for drugs. That night, McDuff saw Colleen Reed, a 28-year-old accountant. Colleen was washing her car at a car wash.

McDuff grabbed her and forced her into the car. Both he and Worley raped her. Witnesses called the police, but they couldn't get there in time. McDuff killed Colleen, dropped Worley off and then disposed of her body. While he was working at the Quickpack market, McDuff became fascinated with his manager's wife.

22-year-old Melissa and Northrop. Melissa was pregnant with her third child. McDuff mentioned wanting to rob the store and take Melissa. And on March 1st, 1992, Melissa's husband became worried when she didn't come home. Melissa was abducted from work and driven away in her own vehicle. Her car was found five days later. McDuff's car was found parked near the store. Melissa's body was found on April 26th, floating in a gravel pit, about one mile from her car.

Her hands were tied behind her back, shoestringes and a sock. She had been strangled with a rope. So no doubt, and we knew it from the get go. McDuff is a monster. But what I want to go back to Gibbs is it coming out that he had mentioned wanting to rob the store and take Melissa. Right. Now, we don't have any details around that, but, you know, from the reporting, that makes it sound like to me that he's telling his fellow co-workers this or at least one. He's not shy about keeping it a secret. Yeah, again, don't know how many people he told.

I don't know how widespread it was, but the question we always ask, when people hear stuff like that, what do they think? Yeah. And why do they not tell someone? Do they think it's just a joke? This guy's blown off steam. He's never really going to do it. Well, maybe with him, they were scared of what he would do to them if they said something.

Well, if they knew his past, if they knew his history, that definitely could be correct. He had intimidated people most of his life. Around the time that Melissa's body was found, another body was found out in the woods, 22-year-old Valencia K. Joshua, the sex worker was last seen on February 24th, 1991, searching for McDuff's dorm room. Valencia was found naked in a shallow grave in the woods of a golf course near the school on March 15th. So I think once that information comes out, probably not too hard to figure out who you want to talk to. Right. You know, she was traveling to find McDuff's dorm room.

We find out who McDuff is. Oh, bad guy. We definitely need to talk to him. The problem is after the authorities found Melissa's body, McDuff disappeared. He was gone. No one could find him. His mother actually ended up filing a missing person. report. But then police got a break in the case when McDuff had sold drugs to an informant. U.S. Attorney Bill Johnson charged him with possession of firearms and distribution of drugs. The U.S. Marshals working Operation Gunsmoke, which is a cool ass name. It is. Apparently this was a national effort to arrest violent offenders were sent out to find him. So I'm thinking Tommy Lee Jones, he's leading the crew of the U.S. Marshals.

I can see that. By early March, a task force consisting of multiple agencies was assembled to arrest Kenneth McDuff. Shortly after he murdered Melissa, McDuff fled Texas. He got a car. He got a fake ID. He moved to Kansas City, Missouri and began working as a garbage collector. The marshals went to Holland, Texas, to question people.

and while they were there, they made a shocking discovery. The woman Kenneth assaulted in 1964 had survived the attack and she had a baby. Kenneth McDuff had a daughter named Teresa. Teresa told the marshals that when she found out who her dad was, she visited him in prison. And what do you think Kenneth McDuff did? I'm going to guess he didn't go, oh, you're my daughter. I'm so happy to see you. No.

No, he tried to get her to. smuggled drugs. He offered to take her to Vegas and be her pimp. Because he's just the dad of the year. Dad of the year. She also claimed that the McDuffs had paid $25,000 to a former parole board member to get Kenneth out of prison in 1989. There you go. Is mom hard at work? Now, we can't say she was directly responsible, but it's hard not to think she at least had some role in it. Yeah. The marshals tracked down McGregers. She's, tracked down McDuff's former cellmate and temple, he told them about a series of connections that placed McDuff in Austin five days before Colleen was abducted from the car wash.

Witnesses reported that a tan car with rounded tail lights, which matched the description of the Thunderbird that McDuff was driving, grabbed Colleen and sped off, going the wrong way down a one-way street. And apparently this was a McDuff trademark. Like any time he felt. he needed to get away, he would go down the wrong way of a one-way street. Just to make it a little riskier to pursue him. Well, it would be. Yeah.

The Austin police had dismissed McDuff as a suspect because he reportedly hadn't been in the city since October. So they had some bad information. They were definitely wrong about that. The police also looked for the accomplice described as a Hispanic or tan white male. they found Alva Hank Worley, a 34-year-old concrete worker who hung out with McDuff. Worley was living at a motel with his daughter in Temple. The marshals knocked on his door late one night to ask him some questions.

Worley claimed he barely knew McDuff. When one of the marshals gave him all the details of McDuff's violent crimes, it was reported that this Worley guy had no reaction. Wow, didn't phase him. which is very strange, right? Please come to talk to you about a person who you say you barely know. And they say, well, did you know that he did this, this, this and this? I think with most people that would elicit some type of reaction. You would think over the next couple of weeks, they just stopped at his house at odd hours.

On the fifth visit, one of the marshals told Worley that he was helping a man who killed a girl just a couple of years older than. his own daughter. He told Worley to picture what happened to Edna happening to his own daughter. And that was that was what it took, Gibbs. Warley screamed out and then he confessed everything. I'm sure they tried a number of different tactics to get to this guy. Right. But this was a smart one. And it wound up being the one that worked. During his confession, Warley told the U.S. Marshals, McDuff said he was going to take a girl that night. And he did. He did. On December 29th, he and McDuff went to Austin to buy drugs. They spotted Colleen and randomly decided to kidnap her. McDuff parked his car in the spot next to Colleen's. When he returned, he had Colleen by the throat. Worley said she pleaded, please not me, not me. McDuff put her in the backseat and Worley kept her under control. A few miles out, they switched spots. And McDuff raped her, while Worley drove. Later they switched again and Worley raped Colleen while McDuff drove. On a narrow dirt road

near his parents home, he stopped and raped Colleen again. Worley said that Colleen begged him. Please don't let him hurt me anymore. Mcduff grabbed her by the back of the neck and threw her into the trunk. When Worley asked what he was going to do, McDuff said, I'm going to use her up. That's a, that's a skewer. scary statement. It really is brutal. The police believed McDuff buried Colleen in a field, a few hundred yards from his parents' house. McDuff was profiled on America's Most Wanted. On May 1st, 1992, on May 4th, a viewer called the tip line to report McDuff. The viewer said that McDuff was posing as a garbage collector named Fowler in Kansas City, Missouri. McDuff was pulled over at a garbage stop and arrested just a few hours later.

So you and I have talked about America's Most Wanted for years. I think for many of us, if it didn't kind of start our true crime fascination, it definitely helped fuel it. Sure did. It was such a good show, man. And I forget the number of individuals that it helped apprehend. But, you know, not only was. it giving you facts about individuals, you know, involved in crime and kind of, you know,

fueling our fascination about who these people were. But it was also a good show in that it was making a difference. And how many shows actually do that? Sure. It was putting awareness out there. And helping, you know, put away bad people. I remember when the rating started to dip and Fox wanted to take it off the air, there was a huge outcry from people. And I think they kept it on, you know, a little while longer. McDuff's trial for murdering Melissa Northrop began on February 2nd, 1993. On February 18th, he was convicted of capital murder and sentenced to death that same day. Just a couple weeks of trial pretty fast.

Yeah, it didn't take too long. But you really got to think about this guy. Think about this case, right? convicted in the 60s of murder, given a death sentence, he escapes that. Now we're in the 1990s. He's killed more people is convicted and gets another death sentence. And I don't know why that fascinates me so much. I think part of it Gibbs is that I feel as though he won the lottery.

Not only was he taken off of death row, he was paroled. Sure. You would think coming out, you would be like, I won the lottery. Right. And I'm going to live my life to the fullest. I'm going to do everything I can do not to go back to prison. The problem is it's not how some of these people think. No, he messed up early on and went back for a short period of time and then was released again.

Yeah. They just don't stop. They don't think any other way. Maybe they don't know how. maybe they don't want to. I'm sure it varies from person to person, but it always fascinates me how they can't view it as a new lease on life and live it to the fullest. Now, maybe they, in their mind, they are living it to the fullest. And that's a pretty sick thought. Maybe that's how he thought about that, right? Yeah, it could be. And this time I'm not going to get caught. I'm just going to do

things differently. Yeah. Yeah. But he should never been out in the first place. No, I agree. At his 1994 murder trial for Colleen Reed. McDuff called Worley a liar saying the only reason I went to Austin was to rob the big time drug dealers. Worley wanted to abduct a woman off the street. I told him no. Okay. This is how many times he's tried to point the finger at someone else. At a certain point, you become the common denominator, right? It can't be everyone you associate yourself with wants to murder people. Right. And you just happen to be the voice of reason, but yet you're there. Why wouldn't you leave? Right. Obviously, anybody can see through that. On February 23rd, 1994, McDuff was found guilty of capital murder, aggravated sexual assault,

and aggravated kidnapping of Colleen Reed. McDuff was sentenced to death once again on March 1st, 1994. So two years, two death sentences. After the trials, papers republished earlier information from law enforcement. Missouri and Texas authorities announced McDuff was a suspect in eight murders, ranging from 1989 to 1991. Forty-year-old Trudy Darby went missing on January 19th, 19th, in western Missouri. Her body was found on January 21st. 31st. 31-year-old Cheryl disappeared on February 27, 1991 from Nevada, Missouri. 28-year-old Denise Mason was found on Old Manor Road on January 17, 1990, in Travis County, Missouri. 29-year-old Saraphia Parker was found on October 14, 1989.

In a field of grass near Temple, she had been strangled and beaten. Sarafia was murdered just three days after McDuff got out of prison. That's a scary thought. It's really scary. You know, we just talked about a guy like this you would think would want to relish being on the outside, but yet there's a distinct possibility he murdered this woman three days after getting out of prison. Yeah, he had no control. For Nia Blunson was a homemaker and a mother of two. She left home on July 19, 1991, while her husband was showering. And she was never seen again. During a road. block in October of 1991, witnesses saw a woman with her hands tied behind her back, screaming

and attempting to kick out the windshield of a car. She was never seen alive again. This woman was later identified as sex worker Brenda Thompson. On October 15th, 1991, McDuff and 17-year-old Regina Moore were seen arguing at a motel in Waco. McDuff drove them to a remote area near Texas State Highway 6. He tied her up and murdered her. Regina was missing for years before her body was found. In October 1998, Kenneth left prison for two days to lead the authorities to Colleen Reed's body. She was buried along the Brazos River south of Waco. Regina Moore and Brenda Thompson were found buried near Colleen. The police said they found these bodies with the help of an informant, but they didn't say who. In November 1998, a federal judge reduced the sentence of McDuff's nephew Michael Wayne Royals from 15 years to 10 years.

He was serving time for delivering amphetamines and methamphetamines. The American statesman claimed that a relative of McDuff asked authorities if they would help Royals in exchange for McDuff finding the victims. A federal prosecutor made a request in Royals case on. November 4th, 1998, but the request was sealed. On November 10th, the U.S. district judge issued an order, which was also sealed. So I think you can read between the lines there. I think you can. And say that Kenneth was helping out a member of his family to lessen, you know,

that person's sentence. But we just don't know the details because it seems like everything was sealed. McDuff was supposed to be executed on October 21st, 1998. but he won a reprieve. He sought a delay so additional hair samples from Melissa's case could be tested. He received a stay of execution for Colleen's murder that was never lifted. McDuff told media outlets that he suffered from hepatitis C and cirrhosis. Doctors wouldn't tell him how long he had left to live. He said in a death row interview, I consider myself dead. I'm just waiting to be buried.

He said in that same interview, I'm not here to plead my way out of this. He said, most of the people on death row have a mental condition. They committed horrible crimes. They had no control over. They have some kind of disorder they can't control. He said, if they had received treatment, they might not be in prison. There might be some truth to that. I think there is some truth to some of that.

He said, as a rule, the people on death row are not ordinary criminals who are after your money, or your valuables. Regular criminals are much more vicious and violent. The general prison population is more dangerous and threatening than those on death row. Death row is like a mental institution. I don't know if that would be nearly as accurate today. That's what I was just thinking. Because, you know, over the years, people with documented mental illnesses have not received. Right. The death penalty. The way that, you know, they did in the past. the 5th U.S. Circuit of Appeals rejected McDuff's request for reprieve on November 16th, 1998. He appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court, who also rejected his request.

Kenneth McDuff was executed for murdering Melissa Northrop on November 17, 1998, at 6.26 p.m. His last words were, I'm ready to be released. Release me. Gibbs, he was only 52 years old when he was. was executed. And I say it that way because it seems as though he started his life of crime and even, you know, his murders so early. In the 1960s, the early 60s, he was just so young when he started killing. He was buried in the prison cemetery with grave marker X 99950. And I've already mentioned it a couple times, but you know, one of the things that fascinated me about this case is him being released, murdering again, being caught, being put on death row again. McDuff was the only

Texas death row inmate to be released on parole and then returned to death row. Texas changed their laws to keep offenders like McDuff in prison for life and they improved monitoring upon relief. Gibbs, these are known as the McDuff laws. Good laws to have. Good laws to have, like we always say, it takes something a lot of the time to put these types of things in motion. You would love to think, well, why couldn't have somebody thought about the fact that we needed these things already?

But unfortunately, it doesn't always work that way. It takes a horrific act or it takes something that kind of exposes. the limitations of the system for the system to be changed. And I think that's exactly what happened here. I agree with you. So Gibbs, as we wrap up this case on Kenneth McDuff, I think one of the things that it does is it shows that although there have been changes in our legal system, we still have quite a bit of work to do. You know, when you talk about him specifically, you go back to sheriffs, prosecutors, warning that. that this guy was such a violent criminal.

He was never going to stop harming women, but yet he was granted parole anyway. I think we were all kind of shocked by that. Very shocked. And then some of what I've talked about, which is this guy essentially threw away a chance to improve his life, right? He'd won the lottery. He got a second chance,

but he couldn't control his violent urges. He could do something good with his life, but he continued to be such an evil, evil person. So whatever frog demon he had, he let it win, right? He could not control his urges to harm innocent women. And I do think it's sad for all the victims, especially very sad for these women that lost their lives at his hands later, because like you and I said, neither one of us believe that he ever should have been let out.

Yeah, he's actually a very, very, very. very weak person. I would agree. But isn't it thought that most bullies are? Of course. You kind of said it, right? When the bully gets theirs, what happens? You don't hear from them anymore. No, they can't handle that. But that's it for our episode on Kenneth McDuff. I've been wanting to talk about him for for some time now. I kept putting it off and putting it off. But it is a story that has fascinated me for for quite a while. We've got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Yes, hear them.

Hi, Mike and Gibby. My name is FISA. I'm calling from in Newark and Ireland. And I just want to say, thank you so much for all this you do and your podcast. You're keeping me going to the last three or four years. I'm absolutely obsessed. I've got so many people here in Ireland who have recently signed up and,

excuse me, joined your podcast. And I'm just obsessed. and Mike is my favorite, so I'll miss you guys. But yeah, keep your head on the silver and keep your own fan picking. Thank you. That's awesome. Yeah, it is awesome. And you know me, Gibbs.

I'm a sucker for an Irish accent. Love them. You always have been. Always have been. Oh, this is so exciting. So I have listened to every episode of T-Cat. I still haven't brought myself to listen to Unsolved. Oh, yeah, my name is Sarah. I live in Connecticut. I work overnight as a baker at a donut shop, so you guys keep me company all night long. I will probably end up starting unsolved soon just because waiting a week for each episode is sometimes torture. That being said, though, if you do play this voice, though, would you play it on T-Cat and not unsolved just because I don't know of false year? But that being said, you guys do an amazing person.

job and I know I appreciate everything you guys do and all the hard work. I tell people about the podcast all the time. And yeah, thank you guys so much for everything you do and keep your own time ticking. Bye. I wonder what a teak cat donut would look like. I don't know, but I'm also a big sucker for donuts. I know you are. And I love a good donut. You are the donut king of Ohio. Yeah. You really like those glazed. I also like a caramel with like nuts on the top. Oh, yeah. I get fired up for something like that.

You can't go wrong with caramel. Yeah. Caramel or caramel. Or caramel. Caramel. I think that's the one way most people don't pronounce it. Caramel. Leave it to Gibby to come up with a way that you can say a word 15 different ways.

And he comes up with the one way that most people don't. You never know. So I'm fake from Amherst, New York, which is a, a little bit outside of Buffalo. And I just really wanted to let you guys know that I think you guys are adorable. Like, I'm 18, so I know you're older to be, I know you're old enough to be my dad. But the way you just like talk about crime and all of a sudden you talk about Daniel Day Lewis, like it's just really, really endearing.

And I just wanted you to let, I just want to let you guys know that. Anyway, have a great day. Amherst. Amherst. So it's probably not spelled like you would read Amher. Because it's New York, right? I'm pretty sure it's AM-H-E-R-S-T. Yeah, I bet it's not.

I don't know. It's probably spelled like a HM. Okay. So, because you know how we have. Hey, why don't you just have another caramel and sit there and write it out? Yeah. But you know, the one thing that I have noticed Gibbs over the years is that as we've gone on, our audience has gotten younger and younger. Now, we've gotten older and older. Yeah. But, you know, we do have a lot of 18, 20, 22 year olds listening to the show. now it's very cool and uh i'm totally fine with being the dad figure and sure and you know i've i've got girls at age and and giving out the facts and the advice keeping your head on a swivel i'm cool with that we just have a full spectrum yeah absolutely we had one thing in the mailbag our friend denise sent us in some things to help us keep going yeah airborne some vitamins she just wants to make sure that we stay healthy right so that we can keep putting out the podcast

And I appreciate that. We do. It's important. Yeah. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and givey, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.