True Crime All The Time - Long Island Serial Killer Part 1

Episode Date: May 25, 2026

In episode 500 of True Crime All The Time, Mike and Gibby begin their deep dive into the infamous Long Island Serial Killer case, one of the most disturbing and consequential serial murder investigations in American history.Join Mike and Gibby for part 1 of the Long Island Serial Killer case as they focus on the disappearance of Shannan Gilbert, the shocking discoveries along Gilgo Beach, and the stories of the women later known as the “Gilgo Four.”You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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It's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash T-Cat. Go to Shopify.com slash T-Cat. That's Shopify.com slash T-C-A-T-T. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 500 of the True Crime, all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson. Gippey, how are you? Do it good, man. How about you? I'm doing great. Yeah. For those watching on video, you can see our new sign in the studio. Very nice. That a lot of people

have been asking for. Finally figured out a good place to do it that could replicate kind of the logo font that we have. It's okay. You can say I handmade it in my garage. Oh yeah. Gibby blew it. He blew all that glass. in his garage. Uh-huh. Oh, all right, buddy. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout-outs. We had Brianna Jeanette.

What's going on, Jeanette? Aaron Groff. Hey, is Aaron. Lindsay Chandler. Thanks, Lindsay. Megan and Teddy. What's going on, Megan Teddy? Ainsley.

Hey, Ainsley. And last but not least, Robin Jennings. The Jennings. And then if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Don Park. Thanks, DP. Love some DP. Yeah.

We have a brand new episode. episode out right now on true crime all the time unsolved where we're talking about 18 year old just in games he was last seen outside of a bar he was just a few months into his freshman year of college and this is a fascinating case because there are multiple people who have kind of said that they were involved in his murder in some way or another yeah but it's almost like so many people have inserted themselves, the water is too muddy. Yeah. Is what it makes it seem like.

But I feel like it's all going to get connected. Yes. And come together here. I do too. Sooner than we think. I think this one will be solved for sure. All right, buddy. So we're doing something a little different.

We're doing a big case for 500 or Gilgo Beach, Long Island serial killer. It's known by many names. And it's a huge case that most people know about. but there's a lot of info. It's going to take us four parts. Yeah. We're doing them all on both audio and video, and we're putting them out Sunday, Thursday, Sunday, Thursday.

So people don't have to wait as long. Yeah. That's how we roll. That's how we're rolling now. Yeah. So let's dive right in. Okay. Are you ready to get into this 500th episode of True Crime all the time?

Let's think about that for a second. It's hard. 500 episodes we've been doing this. It's hard to believe that we, coming from where we did when we started, that we are now on episode 500. I think how long it took you to finally pull your weight. Yeah. And start doing my part of the show. Yeah.

So the case of one missing woman led the police to multiple bodies on the south shore of Long Island. The investigation started when a woman named Shannon Gilbert called 911 in the early morning hours of May 1,000. in the early morning hours of May 1st, 2010, Shannon was panicked, telling the operator that someone was after her. But by the time police arrived, she was gone. In December 2010,

an officer was searching for Shannon on Long Island's Gilgo Beach. He didn't find Shannon, but he did find the body of a woman who went missing in July 2009. And then just days later, three more missing women were found, they became known as the Gilgo Ford. You know, we talk about this from time to time, where police are searching for one thing,

but they find something else. They're searching for a car in a body of water. They find four more cars, not the one they're looking for. Right, exactly. But four other cars, and you've got to figure out, okay, what are these cars doing here? This is a little different because they're searching for a woman. and they find another woman dead. Yeah, and then they find a few more bodies.

Yes. Searches of Gilgo Beach in the surrounding area continued in the spring of 2011. Six more bodies were found. And none of them were Shannon Gilbert. So now we're up to 10 bodies. But still haven't found the person they initially set out to find. Yeah. who just happens to share the name of my wife.

That's true. And spells it exactly the same. And I hardly ever see it spelled this way two A's, an A at the end instead of an O. And that's, that is unique. Yeah. And that's exactly how my wife spells her name. But it turned out, Gibbs,

that one of the victims was a female toddler. And her mother's remains were also found that spring. So I think, you know, if you're investigators and if you're the public as some, as a whole this starts to come out. If you're investigators, you're concerned, right? Did you have a possible serial killer and you got to figure out what's going on? I think if you're the public, it's the same, but for a different reason. I think you're going to be scared.

Yeah. You know, and rightfully so. Because who's next? And who is this serial? killer, supposed serial killer, is he living right next door to me? Is he terrorizing? What part of the community? Disturbingly, some of these victims' partial remains had already been found before, one

as early as 1996. The Suffolk County police have called the Gilgo Beach case one of the most consequential homicide investigations in the history of Long Island. In 2022, a task force identified an architect named Rex Heerman as the Long Island serial killer based on DNA, cell phone, and a mountain of other evidence. Yeah. And again, like I said, this is a very well-known case. People have heard of Gilgo Beach murders.

They've heard of the Long Island serial killer. For the longest time, it was, you know, up there as far. far as the most recognizable, unsolved cases. Yeah. And then obviously, when they identify this Rex Schermengue, it, it kind of exploded the true crime world because people had been talking about this case, studying it for so long. You know, it was almost like Joseph DiAngelo being caught as the East Area rapist, Golden State Killer.

It was just front page news. Big time news. Still is big time news. So in part one of the Long Island serial killer episodes, we'll cover how the investigation began, the discovery of the bodies on Gilgo Beach, the lives of the Gilgo Four, and the early suspect profile.

23-year-old Shannon Gilbert was an aspiring actress from New Jersey who did escort work via Craigslist. Okay, the old Craigslist. Yeah. I'm assuming Craig Bliss is still out there. I think it is. I do not think they have the same sex ads, if that's, if I'm saying that term correctly, that they used to.

Okay. You know, in the past, it was a big place, I think, for escorts to advertise. And there was a lot of me, you know, male looking for female. I don't think they do all that stuff anymore. Okay. tone it down now, I guess. Well, because I think it started out as more of a, you know, I have something for sale or, you know, I got a job or, you know, something like that. But it's slowly, or maybe not slowly, quickly probably morphed into 97% sex, I think. Okay. Sex, classified for sex.

Yeah, but I think they've gotten away from it. I don't know. I've been on there in a long time. on April 30th, 2010, Shannon left her home in New Jersey to meet up with her driver, Michael Pack, in Manhattan. Michael drove Shannon around the city that night. It was slow until midnight when Shannon got a call from a client named Joseph Brewer, who lived on Oak Beach in Long Island. It was a 90-minute drive. But Brewer wanted to hire Shannon for a few hours, which would make it worth the long trip. I would, that's a long trip to go for just a couple hours of work, but.

It is, but if you're making what, I have no idea what an escort could or did charge in 2010. Yeah. $500, $1,000 an hour? I don't know. Maybe. Whatever she was getting was worth a while for her. For 90 minutes each way. Yeah.

Shannon was in Brewer's house for a few hours. Michael waited outside. At 4.51 a.m., Joseph Brewer tapped on Michael's window, telling him Shannon wouldn't leave. Michael said in a 2011 interview that Shannon looked paranoid and scared. He told her they should go back. Michael reported that Joe grabbed Shannon, and she freaked out. She made a frantic call to 911 from inside Joseph Brewer's house just before 5 a.m. And the following is a partial transcript of that call that was published by 48 hours. So you have a operator saying state police, Shannon said, yeah, there's somebody after me. These people are trying to kill me. According to NBC, Brewer was heard saying at one point, come on, let's go. We'll all go outside.

Shannon said, please get me out of here. My, Shannon couldn't specify where she was, but she did say she was on long Island. Shannon fled from Joe's house during her call and her screams drew the attention of neighbor Gus Colletti. Colletti told 48 hours, it was like five in the morning. I was in the bathroom, shaving. All of a sudden, I heard screaming out here and banging on that door, yelling, help me, help me, help me. He opened the door and asked Shannon what was wrong. But all she would say was help me help me help me wow scary and it's such a strange kind of interaction right who is she afraid of who is she saying are these people who are trying to kill her and then at one point she says might get me out of here yeah and we just said michael's out waiting in the car

there's a lot of strangeness going yeah definitely a lot of moving people yeah definitely a lot of moving pieces with this. So she goes next door. She's trying to get this neighbor's attention. Shannon was still on the phone with 911 when Kledi opened the door. So this interaction was recorded. He also called 911. According to Kledi, he said, when I said to her, I called the police, sit down in that chair.

They're on their way. She just looked at me and then she just ran out the door. Very strange. Yeah, this whole thing is strange. It's almost as if, one, she is either really scared that someone has threatened her or is going to kill her, has said they were going to hurt her, or she's on drugs. Yeah. Which is a possibility. Sure.

Or I think the third possibility is she's experiencing some kind of mental health issue. Yeah. Scary either way. Yeah. I mean, all three are scary. just because of the way that that she's acting, he noticed Shannon's driver Michael Pack, driving a black SUV in the area.

He said, I could see a car came and stopping, coming a little bit and stopping. He spotted Shannon hiding under his boat. And then all of a sudden she ran out from under it. The driver followed her. Coletti yelled at him to stop, but he followed her.

Shannon ran to the home of Coletti's neighbor, Barbara Brennan, who also called 911. Brennan said, some woman is knocking on my door. She says she's in danger. I'm not letting her in. So you have a lot of activity going on there in the neighborhood, right? And you have, I'm sure the police are on the other side going, what is going on in this neighborhood?

You mean on the other end of the call? Yeah. Yeah. Well, but also, you know, let's look at it from. her perspective, she doesn't know any of these people. No. So she is going to random individuals' houses and knocking on the door. And the first guy says, hey, come on in, sit down.

I've called the police. I mean, he seems to have been very non-threatening, very inviting as far as, you know, like a safe person that you could trust. But for whatever reason, she bolts. and then she runs to another neighbor's house. And at one point, she's hiding under his boat. It's just hard to make sense of. It really is.

And that's why, you know, it kind of takes me down the path of drug use or a mental health issue. Because, I mean, let's face it, some of this stuff just doesn't seem normal. When the police arrived at 5.40 a.m., Shannon was gone. They assumed she left the area with her driver, Michael Pat. And let's talk about this, this woman who said, hey, I'm not letting her in. I don't blame you. First of all, it's between five and six in the morning. Yeah. So you better have a damn good reason of knocking on my door that early. First of all, I'm probably not going to wake up. My wife is and then she's going to say, hey, somebody's knocking on the door. You better go check it out. I am not going to be

a happy camper. No, you will not be. But on the flip side of that is, it's going to be hard for me to really take a chance that someone is telling me the truth and that they need saving. Because how many times have we seen like a real ploy being used in that manner to get into somebody's house and then, you know, things go sideways in a hurry? I mean like the movie, strangers? Yeah. Yeah.

That's a great example. Again, I've said it a million times. I want to trust people. Of course. I want to trust a person who's broken down on the side of the road. I want to trust a person who knocks on my door, but can I completely? And I think the answer is no. Not today.

Not today. Maybe in 1950s Pleasantville. Maybe. Where nothing went wrong, you know. But today, the world is, uh, it can be a brutal place. A sinister place. But in total, Shannon's 911 call lasted over 21 minutes. But portions of that, they were silent.

Like nothing was going on. According to former Suffolk County Chief of Detective's Dominic Veroon, the police could not respond to Shannon's call because she couldn't tell them where she was. I mean, they need a location to know where to go. Now, I've always thought that they could kind of trace where the calls were coming from. Right. I always thought so too. Maybe that wasn't possible at this point of time. It's 2010, though.

It's not 1990. So I really don't know. Maybe it differs from place to place, what type of equipment they have. Not sure. How long you're on the phone with them, maybe? I don't know. Well, 21 minutes, I think is long enough. Yeah, that is a long time.

If you have the ability. Yeah. Because in the movies, it's like, just keep them on the line for, what, 30, 60 seconds. Something like that. That's what we need. and the person always knows that they got to hang up before that amount of time. Barone told 48 hours the complaint operators asking, well, where are you? And she just kind of ignores that, where are you question and keeps saying someone's after me?

She sounds not very coherent, not very rational. Fair statement. It is, but what is that statement again kind of lead you? too. And to me, it's thinking drugs or mental health issue. Yeah. And that's what you think of. If someone's not coherent, they're not acting rational, it could be like one of those things, right? Forone at it. It almost seems like she's in some type of psychotic state or in some type of drug-induced stupor. Yeah. So I think he's thinking the exact same thing. You know, folks, it's summertime. And that changes. how I get dressed. You know, I want pieces that are breathable, easy, but still make me look put

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on your order and 365-day returns. available in Canada too. That's QINCE.com slash T-C-A-T-T for free shipping and 365-day returns, quince.com slash T-Cat. Verone explained that the local police who responded to Gus Colletti's call were not aware of Shannon's call. And so that's interesting, right? They're both calling the same place. Right. Probably talking to two different operators. And if it's all kind of happening at the, you know, same time, maybe the connection is not made. I guess maybe the location, the call centers is too big. You know, maybe they're not in the same.

Even if they were right next to each other. Maybe they don't put it together. Yeah, maybe someone stands up. I got something really crazy going on over here. I think everything they handle is on the chaotic side of things. Now, it may not, not everything. everything's like this, but I'm sure it's, it's not a dull job. Let's put it that way. I mean, we used, you know, we, we do. We have a couple listeners that are.

Oh, yeah, dispatchers. Dispatchers. And they had some pretty good stories. Yeah. I'm sure they have a lot of good. Probably some they can't legally tell us. Right. Is my, is my thought. According to 48 hours, Shannon's call was transferred to the New York State police when she couldn't give her location. And it took almost a month for police to link her call to the missing person's report because it was filed in New Jersey. Oh, okay. So, I mean, I think, you know, that that's just a jurisdictional thing. I don't know that there's any malfeasance or bad police work there. It could just be, you know, how things worked back then. Shannon's sister, Sherry Gilbert, didn't learn she was missing for two days.

when Shannon's boyfriend called her to say she didn't come home. Shannon's sisters, Sherry and Sarah, had been worried about her ever since she told them she was doing escort work. I mean, it's not the safest job, that's for sure. It's not. And it is obviously a profession that you and I talk about frequently, right? It comes up in many cases because, sadly, sex workers are often targeted and have been targeted for a very long time by killers and serial killers

because they are in a vulnerable situation. Yeah. In a lot of ways. Number one, sometimes they're getting into cars with people they don't know, which is just almost, I hate to say it, but a perfect scenario for a predator to strike. They're vulnerable. They are a vulnerable target.

Yes, there's just no doubt about it. Shannon had also been diagnosed with bipolar disorder and struggle with depression and mood swings. When her sisters expressed their worry, she said nothing would happen. Well, let's face it, nobody thinks anything bad is going to happen. No. Now, on the flip side of that is you don't want to walk around all day, constantly thinking something bad is going to happen to you. You don't want to manifest something. No.

And you don't want to ruin your life. by just being so worried about it all the time. Sherry Gilbert told 48 hours that Shannon was trying to make a better life for herself, saying, my sister had other dreams. You know, she wanted to be a singer, an actress.

She was pursuing that. And she was also going to school to be a writer. Well, she's heavily involved in bettering herself and wanting to go to that acting profession, singing, entertainment. Yeah. It's like what we call the Mike Gibson route, aka Rex West. I too have started writing.

Yeah. But, you know, this is the thing. And I understand the illegal part of sex work. Yeah. And why a lot of people look down on it. But it is also true that there have been people, mainly women, that have used it to get through a period. in their life to get on to bigger and better things. Sure.

I don't think there's any doubt about that. Very much like stripping. I mean, there are people who have stripped to put their way to make their way through college. Some that still strip at senior facilities. Yes. Even though they don't have to, they just like it. They just like it. But, yeah, so I try not to be too judgmental about stuff like that.

Now, I get it. Some things are illegal and they just are illegal. Shannon's family filed a missing person's report as soon as they found out, but they didn't receive any news. So they drove to Oak Beach to start looking for themselves. Shannon had been missing for eight days at this point. It's a long time. It is a long time. And I think if you're the family and this is something that you and I go back and forth with,

you know, at a certain point, you're going to do whatever you have to do. Yeah. And that's start your own searches. hire a private investigator, especially if you, if, you know, police aren't really communicating or you may not feel as though, A, they're doing what they should be or B, they're getting anywhere. And really think about it historically, police used to not really put in the effort for sex workers as a, you know, somebody else, you know, that's part of the community. Yeah. I mean, that's, I think it's been pretty well documented.

Yeah. Now, not every jurisdiction or every department, but over the years, I think it's been pretty well documented that that has happened. So the family, you know, they spoke to a dozen people just trying to put together a timeline. And they learned that Shannon and her driver left the city shortly after midnight on May 1st, 2010 to go to a gated community in Oak Beach. The police did search for Shannon. but months past with no sign of her. Investigators looked into the man who hired her that night. This guy, Joseph Brewer, Joseph told 48 hours.

He solicited Shannon online, but not for sex. He also didn't know why Shannon became afraid because he never harmed her. He just wanted her to leave his house and brought the driver inside to get her to leave. The last time he saw her, she was, running out of his house to his neighbor Gus Colletti. He's like, yeah, I got her out of the house.

I was done at that point. Yeah, I'm also, you know, I always like the, I did solicit Shannon online. Yeah. But it wasn't for sex. You know, that's the whole escort. Right. Parts. I just wanted some company.

Nobody pays that much money for company. Just want to have some conversation. You know. Because I'm a talker. Oh, I don't know. do you need somebody to escort you to a dinner? Yeah, maybe if you're lonely, are you going to pay thousands of dollars for that?

Most people don't. So he can say that. And maybe that's the truth. I can't dispute it 100%. But I would be shocked if there wasn't sex in the planning of that. Yeah. I mean, it definitely would be the minority of that scenario. Yeah.

I get it. He can't just come out and say, yeah, I solicited her for sex because that is a crime. Exactly. So much better to say, yeah, I'm just lonely. I need an escort, quote unquote. Yeah. When Caleddy saw Michael Pack, he said he was looking for Shannon. When Colletti told Pack, he called the police, Pack said, you shouldn't have done that. And that's an interesting statement. because you can take it a couple of different ways, right?

Yeah. Is he worried that she's going to get in trouble because she's an escort? Probably. And she's technically doing something that's illegal. Or is it more sinister than that? Does it have another, is there another reason? I mean, it could. In a text of 48 hours, Pack said he never touched her and had nothing to do with Shannon's

disappearance. both PAC and Brewer passed polygraphs and were not considered suspects. So you can make of all of that what you will, and especially the polygraph part, depending on how much stock you put into polygraphs, but I always like it when people say, well, I didn't have anything to do with it.

Yeah. What else are you going to say? We certainly are going to raise your hand and say, well, I had something to do with it, but I'm not telling you anything more. Yeah, I mean, I get it. they have to report it that way because that's what he said, but it's like, it's so what's on the

nose, I guess. But he did pass a polygraph and police said they, neither he nor Brewer were considered suspects. I mean, that's somewhat telling, right? Yeah, I'm sure they looked into it. Yeah. There just wasn't anything there. Dr. C. Peter Hackett, a resident of Oak Beach and a retired emergency services doctor, inserted himself into the case when he called, Shannon's mother, Mary Gilbert on May 3, 2010. He ran a halfway house for people who wanted to get off the street and claimed that Shannon was there. She left with her driver and he said he was worried about her.

However, when Shannon's sisters came to Oak Beach, he denied calling Mary and said he'd never seen Shannon. That's so bizarre. Well, everything is bizarre, right? from her actions and now you've got this doctor allegedly making the call and then later saying he didn't make the call. In letters to 48 hours, Hackett admitted that he called Mary Gilbert, but said it was later in the week. And he did so at the request of friends who were searching for Shannon. He wrote at no time, did I suggest I had ever met her or render medical care of any sort of.

sort to her. He also denied seeing Shannon when speaking to the press. But why would Mary say that's what he said? I don't know. I don't know. What would be in it? Like what would be her motive? Yeah, exactly. For saying he said that. I have no idea. She had a friend record her confrontation with Dr. Hackett who claimed I never saw her. I never met her. All this stuff about a rehab or something. I don't have her. a rehab. I don't do rehab. Forty-eight hours obtained her phone records, which confirmed that Hackett did make a call to her on May 3rd, 2010. So, I mean, it's not making him look great. No. Because most of the evidence is kind of backing her story up. Forty-eight hours went to Hackett's home to

get answers about why he called Mary Gilbert and then changed his story. He said, because it couldn't remember my story. Seriously. A person gets a lot of phone calls. Yeah, you know what, though? I would think you would remember this story. Yeah, I'm with you. I think if it's just a run-of-the-mill everyday kind of phone call, easy to forget. If it's a phone call that is attached to something that is then front-page news and all over the media, you're probably going to tend to remember that. Yeah. That's what I think at least. Chime is fee-free banking built for you. They are not like the stuffy traditional old banks. Charging you overdraft and monthly fees. Chime does things differently. They also have thousands of fee-free ATMs. Why in the world would you pay to get your own money?

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That's chime.com slash T-CATT. It only takes a few minutes to sign up. Chime is a fintac, not a bank, banking services for MyPay. And Chime card provided by Chim's bank partners for more information on APY rates. MyPay, Spot Me, and Travel Perks, go to chime.com slash disclosures. Optional products and services may have fees or charging. former Suffolk County Chief of Detectives Dominic Veron noted that Hackett wasn't a suspect. Yeah, the calls were strange, but not out of character because Verone said he's an individual who likes to get involved.

Some call him a storyteller, an exaggerator. We certainly believe that he may have called to offer his assistance. I mean, clearly he wanted to insert himself into the case, right or wrong. Yeah. he also should probably be more straightforward on what that conversation was and how it went. Well, a lot of people like to insert themselves into cases, right? I mean, that's just a fact. Sometimes killers like to insert themselves into cases that they're responsible for.

I'm not saying that's him, but there's also people who just want to be in the thick of it, right? because it's fascinating or it's interesting. It's just strange for me, you know, for kind of a medical professional to get involved and then get caught in this lie. Because then you have to answer the question, well, why are you lying? Yeah.

You know, is it just because you wanted to be kind of in the mix or is there, you know, a more sinister reason for it? Searches continued throughout the summer of 2010, but were unsuccessful. On December 11th of that year, an officer and his canine were conducting another search for Shannon Gilbert along Ocean Parkway at Gilgo Beach, Long Island. The dog gave an indication off the shoulder of Ocean Parkway. And it turned out to be an intact skeleton wrapped in Berlin. Oh.

At first, everyone assumed it was Shannon. and Gilbert. In fact, police called Mary to tell her they had found Shannon, according to the Gone Girls' docus series. But that assumption turned out to be wrong. Shannon had a titanium plate in her jaw due to past injuries from an abusive boyfriend. It was soon determined that the human remains were not Shannon. That's a big mistake to, you know, call a loved one saying, hey, we've got her. Yeah. Yeah, without getting the confirmation first.

Because you talk about getting someone's hopes up and not hopes that they're dead, but hopes that I guess there's now finally a resolution. Yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. It's just a big blunder. Why make the call unless you're 100% positive? The remains were identified as 24-year-old. Melissa Barthelam, who went missing in July 2009.

On December 13th, Suffolk County Police found three more sets of human remains. Within a quarter mile of the first discovery, about 22 to 33 feet from the edge of Ocean Parkway. The victims were identified as 25-year-old Marine Brainerd Barnes, 22-year-old Megan Waterman, and 27-year-old Amber Costello. These victims became known as the Gilgo Four. Their cause of death all was listed as homicidal violence. And let's take a step back, right? All found within a quarter mile of the first discovery,

22 to 33 feet off the edge of this roadway. Yeah, not far apart from each other. No, and not far off the road. No. So there's a couple of things that, you know, kind of jump out to me. Number one is, I think police stumbled onto somebody's dumping ground. Yeah. But number two is it seems like if you were really trying to be careful and I always have to be careful,

I'm not trying to give tips to like want to be serial killers. Right, right. But just kind of thinking logically, do you want to go a little bit further off the road? I would. I would want to go further off the road. I'd want to space the bodies further apart from each other. And I certainly wouldn't want them, you know, that close to the up on the road. Yeah, that was my thought. Now, we do know that a lot of times killers, they like to stay in the same kind of geographical region for whatever. They feel comfortable in that area. Maybe that they've done it before. they weren't seen. They're not going to be seen this time. It just seems like very close to the road.

22, 33 feet, that's not a long distance. And maybe, you know, it's an area that they feel like they can go back and revisit easy without looking suspicious. Possible. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe they felt that was another reason why the bodies had to be dumped there. Yeah.

It's absolutely possible. Maureen Brainer Barnes was the first of the Gilgo Four who was murdered. Maureen was a single mother of two who lived in Norwich, Connecticut. Her family said she was smart, creative, and loved being a mother. Maureen posted escort ads on Craigslist and other websites to meet clients. At the time, her family didn't know she was doing this. Well, I don't think a lot of escorts are broadcasting that to family members. No, I mean, I'm sure there are some whose family know what they do, but that does seem to be something that maybe is kept hidden.

Yeah. I think more often than not. Maybe it's because they don't think their family will approve. Maybe it's just because they're not happy with that, but they feel like they got to do it to make ends meet. I really don't know. Yeah. Could be a number of different reasons. but it is somewhat interesting that we kind of have this Craigslist connection, at least between

two different people that we've talked about. And then also obviously the escort connection. Maureen's sister, Melissa Kan, told CBS, she was getting evicted from her house. She needed to get some money. It was her last resort. These are all the jobs she called and applied for, call center, day to end. entry and the list goes on and on. She didn't turn to Craigslist because she wanted to. She turned to Craigslist because she felt there was no way out. No one would give her a job.

She had to do out of necessity. Yeah. And, you know, sadly, I think there are a lot of people maybe who turn to that out of necessity. I don't know what the percentage would be. I don't know how many people go into that as like first choice. I'm sure there are some, but probably, yeah. I don't know if it would be the overwhelming majority. I would think not of people. On July 6th, 2007, a burner phone contacted Maureen South. Between July 6th and July 9th, there were 16 interactions between the two phones. Okay, so definitely some conversations going on. Yeah, and about a three-day period of time. I don't talk to anybody 16 times in three days.

No. On the phone. I believe that. I talk to you maybe once a week. Maybe. Sometimes we just text. Yeah. Sometimes we don't even text.

I know. You just show up and we record. I talk to my wife every day. It's only because she calls me on her way home from work. Yeah. She could wait, but she's got nothing else to do. So she just calls me in the car. I want you to know.

I talk to my mom maybe once a week. my dad once a week. Other than that, you know, friends here and there, I do not call people a lot. No, I don't think you have 16 interactions in a month with everybody you know. Maybe not. No, maybe not. Now, if it's work related or whatever, I have a lot with listeners who email in and I respond to them and things like that. But just to call and talk, no, it's not my favorite. it. Here's how our conversation would go. Hey man, how you doing? I'm okay. Okay, it sounds good.

So I'll see you tomorrow night. Yep. Okay, see you. Bye. Yeah, if we do talk, that's about what it would be. So the number of interactions is something to take a look at, but then the other thing is that it's a burner phone. So I think we have to keep that in mind as well.

On July 8th, Maureen's sister, Melissa, spoke to her for the last time. She was received a call from Maureen late at night from Penn Station in Midtown Manhattan. Maureen said she was going to take the midnight train. She never saw or heard from her sister again. You ever been to Penn Station? A long, long time ago. Yeah.

I've actually never been to New York City. Oh, really? Never. My wife keeps saying she wants to go. We've talked about going. They have good, uh, um, Conte sauce. In New York City.

Now, you and I had Penn State. for dinner, but it's not not the same thing. No, it's not. So Maureen was last seen alive in New York City on July 9th, 2007. She checked into a Super 8 motel in Manhattan and disappeared. Morin's family reported her missing in Norwich and told the police she was an escort. They were told maybe your sister just ran away. Maybe she doesn't care about her kids. Wow, man. That's tough. That's tough. I wonder how much of that was right after they found out she was an escort. Yeah. You know, back to your point earlier, did they think, okay, yep, we're done with this because we don't care. I hate to say that, but we know it's happened. I think that's probably

what did happen because I can't imagine someone being so insensitive to say something so stupid. Yeah. Now, not to say it's not a possibility, but is that the first thing you're going to tell the family? Maybe she don't care about her kids. Yeah. I don't know. Like, I think insensitive for sure at the very least. Similar to the Shannon Gilbert case, Maureen's family felt like no one took them seriously. So they started searching themselves. Officers later told Missy that someone used Maureen's cell phone to make a call from Long Island. Both Long Island and Midtown Manhattan would become central locations in the investigation. The second of the go-go-4 went missing almost exactly two years later. After graduating from beauty school,

24-year-old Melissa Bartholomey moved from Buffalo, New York, to New York City to work as a hairdresser. She also did escort work. Melissa was last seen alive in New York City on July 19, 2009. Lynn Bartholome became worded after she didn't hear from her daughter for several days. She called hospitals and she called the NYPD to file a missing persons report. But according to her, they didn't want to hear anything. They said she's 24.

She's not on any psych meds. She's not missing. She's where she wants to be. And she said that happened for three consecutive days. See, I just find that so wrong. It's like, we don't have time to deal with this. She's 24. She's where she wants to be.

Don't worry about it, you know? She'll get a hold of you when she wants to talk to you. Yeah. Now, I understand, right, an adult has the right to go missing or to go and do whatever they want. Yeah. But is that the first, I guess, right off the back conclusion to most missing persons or reports? I don't know. But it's also her mom that knows her. It's not like they have a bad relationship.

I feel like the mom's saying, my daughter's missing. Yeah. She normally contacts me whenever, and I haven't heard from her, and we need to find her. I just wonder, again, how much of that had to do with whether or not they knew that she did some escort work. Yeah. Family attorney, Steve Cohen, contacted the police and was allegedly told she's a hooker. She's a prostitute. She was. She's an escort. We're not going to assign a detective to this. I mean, just that right there. We're not going to sign a detective to this because she's

this, this, this, and this. Okay, so because she's these things, that makes her less of a person that she doesn't deserve the same respect and the same courtesy that you would give anybody else missing? I don't get that. No, because you shouldn't get it. It's wrong. Now, obviously, it's this guy saying that. That's why, you know, we use the word allegedly. But I don't know why this attorney would have a, you know, any reason to make this up.

Exactly. A week after she went missing, Melissa's 15-year-old sister Amanda received calls from her sister's phone. phone, Amanda answered and said, Melissa, where have you been? A man responded on the other end of the line saying, oh, this isn't Melissa. According to attorney Steve Cohen, he was soft spoken and had a very controlled and comfortable manner of speech, which made horrific messages all the more devastating. Yeah. This guy began to toy with her. And for the very first time, she heard the voice of the killer. Wow. I mean, this guy's got some, you know what on him to do something like that, right? To make those calls and to toy. Yeah, but he's getting something out of it. Oh, for sure. Yeah. Not doing it just for the heck of it.

Yeah. He's getting something out of it in a sick, twisted way. It's getting his jollies off. Yeah. Sure, yeah. There were eight calls total, traced to Midtown Manhattan. In one call, the killer spoke to Lent. He said he was with the NYPD and wanted to know if she filed the missing persons report. Steve Cohen told CBS, and the killer said some pretty horrible things to Amanda, sexually explicit things as to what he had done to Melissa, sexually explicit things as to what he was going to do to Amanda. I mean, it goes to what you were saying. that, you know, most likely he was, you know, being very bad in that conversation to her.

Yeah. And he was obviously, like we said, getting something out of it, some kind of sexual gratification. But I want to talk about Amanda and, you know, Lynn, for that matter. But Amanda hearing from this person that she believes killed her sister. and he's talking about what he did to her, but then he's also saying what he's going to do to Amanda. Yeah, scary. You talk about being scared.

I mean, I don't know how this poor girl slept at night. She had to have been terrifying. Based on his voice, the police believed he was a white male in his late 20s to late 30s. I don't know how you can determine someone's age by their voice, though. I think that's hard to do. It is. People have always misjudged our age. Sure. Before they've seen us, they don't misjudge it once they see us. But I think a lot of people before they got to see us on video thought that maybe we were a little bit younger. They did than what we were. But also a white male in his late 20s to late 30s, for some reason, I feel is how every FBI profile starts. It's a white male in his late 20s to late 30s.

I could have wrote that. But it seemed like the caller knew about investigative techniques based on the way he made calls in busy locations and how long he stayed on the phone. Don't want to be tracked. Yeah. And we were just kind of joking around about that earlier, right? In the movies, it's like people know exactly how long they can stay on the phone. Before the other side, law enforcement can trace the call. Yeah.

Well, they're kind of saying this about this guy. How's he know this? Is he a cop? Does he have some kind of inside knowledge? Amanda received the final call on August 26, 2009. The man told her, do you know what I did to your sister? Well, I killed Melissa. He warned Amanda that he knew where she lived.

And he threatened to come out. after. Oh my gosh. I mean, I feel for her on on so many different levels. Sure. Obviously being told that, you know, her sister was killed by the man who killed her. Yeah. First hand. Or saying that he, he's the one who killed her. And then threatening her in a way that I think few threats would ever rise to the level of, right? Because number one, you're already thinking this guy's a killer. Yeah. Not a crackpot.

No. Not someone just making idle threats. This is someone who's claiming to have already killed your sister, who you know is missing, and is saying, I know where you live, and I'm going to kill you too. And you have to believe him because he's giving you some really strong details of what happened to your sister. And not just kill you. I've also basically saying I'm going to sexually assault you with all. all the nasty things that, you know, I've said in previous calls. So I feel horrible for her as well.

22-year-old Megan Waterman was a mother from Scarborough, Megan's family said she was a creative woman who loved fashion. She was devoted to her daughter, but she also had a troubled life. Like the other victims, Megan did escort work on June 5, 2010, a burner phone that was activated that day, contacted Megan at 131 a.m. on June 6th. The same burner phone contacted Megan. Security footage captured her leaving a holiday in Express in hapage. Hopaj. I hope I'm saying not correctly. It's a hamlet on Long Island around that same time. This was the last time Megan was seen a lot. Megan normally had someone with her when she went on client calls. But this time she was alone.

Cell phone records placed Megan's phone in a Long Island neighborhood called Massapequa Park. 27-year-old Amber Costello lived in West Babylon, Long Island, just seven and a half miles from Massapagua Park. She also did escort work. A client asked Amber to meet him at the Holiday Inn Express in Hapage a few weeks before she went missing. But Amber refused. And now I'm almost certain I'm saying that incorrectly, but a lot of people will tell me how wrong I am. They will. Amber's roommate, Dave Schaller, said she was an amazing person.

Amber struggled with addiction. And she did sex work to pay for drugs. According to Dave, Amber used to say she was better off debt. She hate that she hated that she struggled with addiction. And she didn't like her work. He told 48 hours. she knew what she was doing was just like degrading, just despicable. She absolutely hated it.

But she had an addiction that she had to feed. Yeah. And I think she was very honest about it. Yeah. She was doing it to get money to pay for her drugs. On September 1st, 2010, Amber was contacted by a burner phone. On the second, she left her house to meet a client and never came back. Dave Schaller told the police about Amber's clients.

He said one of them looked like an ogre and drove a first-generation Chevrolet avalanche. Okay. An ogre. What we're talking about? Shrek? Yeah.

Just a big. Ugly guy. Ugly dude. The client had called Amber three to four times on the day she went missing. He offered her $1,500 for the night, which was about six times her hourly right. That's a heck of a amount to be offered. If that's six times what you typically would get paid.

Yeah, I mean, that's kind of hard to turn down. Yeah. But here's my thought. If you're a serial killer, you can offer whatever you want. Absolutely. You're never going to pay it. You don't have any plans of ever paying that money. And if you do pay it, you're eventually going to get it back. Yeah. I mean, it's a sad thing to say, but you have to believe that that goes through a person like this is mind that, you know, I'm going to make an offer that there's no way someone can refuse. And I can do it because it doesn't matter. I'm not paying it. But for Amber, this is, this is like, I can make all this money and I won't have to do this for X amount of days or whatever because I'll get all this money up front and think about all the drugs I can.

It's just too good to pass up. Yeah. Right. From her perspective. In 2011, Dave spoke to CBS and said, this guy was so relentless. He called several times. He was on the phone with her for quite a while each time. This client convinced Amber to do something she never did, which was leave home

without her purse or phone and meet him in his car. Dave walked out the front door with Amber as she left to meet her client. She hugged him, said she loved him, and left. It was almost midnight. He saw her walking down the street and never saw her again. Dave told 48 hours he didn't see the client's face, but he thought he had seen the guy before. After the bodies were found on Gilgo Beach,

police began the hunt for a suspect who became known as the Long Island serial killer. Or LISC for short, right? You always have to abbreviate things. We always do. Investigators noted similarities between the Gilgo four, not only were they found close together, they were all young sex workers with petite bills. The victims excluding Megan Waterman were five feet tall or less,

about 100 pounds all in their 20s and working as online escorts. Megan Waterman was five foot five. What would be the advantage of having a petite escort? Because maybe you can control them and have... Yeah, I actually have a couple of... couple of theories. Yeah. One is,

is that if you're going to attack someone, is it going to be easier to subdue someone that weighs 100 pounds? Yeah, probably. Yeah. But also, is it possible that the killer just had a type? Oh, very, very much so. And, and his type was very petite, you know, short women who didn't weigh much. Yeah.

You know, Dominic Verone. Former chief of detectives believe the killer scrolled through online ads on Craigslist to find his preferred victim type. He said, if he desires a particular height and weight and eye color, he can do that. And I think if you look at the Gilgo Ford, they're very, very close with unique characteristics, very petite, five foot or under, 100 pounds, hazel green eyes. And I think he's right on the money. Yeah. Because if you're driving around, looking on street corners, can you size up someone to see, yeah, how tall they are? Sure.

You're not going to see eye color. No. But on an online ad, it probably has all of that height, weight, eye color. You're going to save a lot of time, right? You can sit there in your office or on your living room, scroll through. see what you like. It's a scary thought, but you're absolutely right. It is scary, though.

The bodies were wrapped in burlap and found in similar positions, bound with belts or tape at the head, midsection, and legs. Vroom believed the killer was familiar with the area along Ocean Parkway and chose it as his dumping ground. At the time, the area was covered in brush. There has since been a new bike path constructed, but in 2010, few joggers and cyclists went to this area. Well, I mean, I think you had to be comfortable, right,

to take a body out of your vehicle, you know, and throw it or roll it or carry it 20 to 30 feet off the road. You got to feel pretty comfortable with no one's coming by. Yeah. Vroon wondered if the killer chose small victims who would be easier to overpower and transport. Well, that's a good thought there. Yeah, because you hit on the overpower part, but now we're talking about transport and not to be morose, but a lifeless body, I'm sure, is hard to transport.

I have no firsthand knowledge of it. What they call it dead weight. Right. But 100 pounds much easier than 150 or 200 pounds. I mean, that's just a fact. Instead of burying the bodies, he just tossed them into the brush. Investigators also suspected the killer might have posed as a hunter, a private trash hauler or someone else who would have had a reason to be on the beach.

The killer might have been someone who was charming or persuasive. For example, he convinced Amber Costello to leave behind her phone. And Maureen Brainerd Barnes was at Penn Station, about to get on a train when she disappeared. So I think that's a good observation. because what does that mean? Who are we talking about here as a potential killer? Are we talking about Henry Lee Lucas who would scare the, you know what, out of anybody who who saw him, whether they knew he was a killer or not.

He was just a scary looking dude. Or are we talking about possibly a more normal, I hate to use the word normal, but Henry Lee Lucas wasn't normal, so I'm okay with it. but more of an everyday type of guy, not shabby dressed, shabbily dressed, or, you know, wears nice clothes, speaks well. Maybe made them feel comfortable. Yeah.

I mean, I think he probably had to make them feel comfortable for them to do some of these things. I think that's what the investigators were saying. The killer was also brazen and sadistic as evidenced by the disturbing phone calls. that he made to Melissa, Melissa's family. I mean, those were nasty. We talked about him. Things that he said to Amber. Yeah.

Amanda. I mean, Amanda, yeah. The police continued searching the beach on December 16, 2010. Throughout the spring of 2011, investigators continued searching for Shannon Gilbert. And, I mean, that's who we started the episode talking about. They end up finding these other victims, but not Shannon. but really this is just the beginning of the Long Island serial killer case. More horrifying discoveries would be made on Gilgo Beach that spring.

In part two of the Long Island serial killer episodes will cover the discovery of additional bodies in the Gilgo Beach area, the links among the victims and follow the investigation through 2022. So like we said, right, as we wrap up this first part, it's going to be. going to take four parts because there's just so much to this case. There's a lot. There really is. I mean, if you did it back in the day as an unsolved case, it would have taken three episodes. Probably. Yeah, no, you're right. And, you know, now obviously with the discovery of who the perpetrator was and even more recently him pleading guilty, then we just got a lot to get into. We do. But that's it for the first part. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?

hear it. People on the video are not used to seeing or hearing voice. No. But this is what happens on the regular podcast. So they're seeing it for the first time. Hey guys. My name is Brooke. I live in South Mississippi. And I've been listening to y'all for years.

I had to start completely over because I got a new phone and lost what Apple had saved for me. So I started all over again. And now I'm about halfway through again. but I just wanted to let y'all know I absolutely love y'all's podcast I listen to it while I'm working while I'm driving while I'm

going to bed everything in between and also there is a very little known serial killer that most people don't know about his name is Robert Dale Henderson I actually had to do a project on him back in college he I found out about him

because I went to interview as a 911 dispatcher in my hometown, and the guy who interviewed me knew my family name because he was the lead investigator on the case of my cousin who was killed in 1982. Turns out she was the 13th victim of a serial killer named Robert Dale Henderson. Y'all should look him up and see what y'all can figure out because a lot of people don't even know he existed. But y'all have a blessed day and keep your own time of ticking. Bye. All right. We love you. We do. We appreciate the voicemail. We'll definitely look into that. Yeah, thanks, Brooke. It sounds like it could make for a very interesting episode. All right,

buddy, that's it. It is. For another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.