True Crime All The Time - Long Island Serial Killer Part 3

Episode Date: June 1, 2026

Rex Heuermann was arrested in Manhattan on July 13, 2023, and identified by authorities as the Long Island serial killer. At the time of arrest, he allegedly possessed another burner phone tied to suspicious searches and activity.Join Mike and Gibby for part 3 of the Long Island Serial Killer case as they examine the extensive investigative work that linked Heuermann to the Gilgo Beach murders, his personal background, and the aftermath of his arrest.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

You know, folks, making that decision to start a podcast or really any type of business, it's scary. It was for Gibby and I as well. What if no one listens? What if we make fools of ourselves? And it can be really hard to get over that doubt. But choosing to make that leap was one of the best decisions we've ever made. Another great decision was picking Shopify to help with our podcast merch.

It really does help. When you have a partner like Shopify on your side. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the U.S. from household names like Jim Shark to true crime all the time to brands just getting started. There is a lot to love about Shopify. I love the fact that they're now packed with helpful AI tools that help you write product descriptions and even enhance your product photography. You can easily create email and social media campaigns. And if you get stuck, Shopify is always around to share advice with their award-winning 24-7 customer support.

It's time to turn those what-ifs into with Shopify today. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com slash T-Cat. Go to Shopify.com slash T-Cat. That's Shopify.com slash T-C-A-T-T. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 502 of the True Crime All the Time. podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? Yeah, I'm doing good, man. And you? I'm doing great. Yeah. This episode is going to come out kind of after CrimeCon. Yeah. On the Sunday where we're

coming back. Obviously, we're recording it before we go. So we can't really talk about how it went, but I'm assuming it'll be great. Yeah. We have some stories to talk about when we get back. Yeah, next week. We'll talk about it next week. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout out. we had Chloe aired. Hey, Aird. Stacey. Hey, Stacey. Claire Matthias.

Well, thanks, Claire. Constance. I love some Constance. Katie. What's going on? Katie. And Sally Everhart jumped out of her highest level. Everhart with a big old heart.

Yeah, so we appreciate the new support. And then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Wendy Webster. Well, thanks. Double. Double. Okay. That almost didn't come out.

We appreciate all the support we get. we have a brand new episode out right now in Unolved where we're talking about 22-year-old Francesca Alvarado, a devoted single mother. She took this trip to Atlantic City, supposed to be a one-night trip in March 2002, but she never returned. Yeah. And then over a year later, parts of her remains washed up on the beach and then more parts started washing up. Yeah. Tragic. Yeah, it's a tragic, but very mysterious. story. So make sure you check it out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am. We're on to part three on the Long Island serial killer. In part two,

we covered the discovery of additional bodies in the Gilgo Beach area, the links among the victims, and followed the investigation through 2022. In part three, we'll cover how a Suffolk County Task Force identified the suspect as well as his arrest and background. In February 22, Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison and Suffolk County DA Rare Tiret. Rare. Rare. Rae. Yeah. Tyranny formed the Gilgo Beach Homicide Investigation Task Force. Investigators initiated what they called a comprehensive review of every item of evidence in the case. I think that's a good thing to do. It's a great thing to do. It also must be, you know, a pretty painstaking undertaking. It's kind of hard to say, but yeah, but I think in that

line of business, it's going to be like that. Yeah, I think a lot of things when you're, you know, referring to that type of investigative work, I'm sure is a little tedious. Yeah. You know, looking through and maybe re-looking through things. They always say it's just can be one tiny little thing. Well, I think that's true. That can, you know, take the case in a certain direction. Just six weeks later, on March 14th, 2020, they had identified a man named Rex Herman as a suspect.

The police looked further into Amber Costello's phone records from 2010. her roommate had mentioned that a client was calling her nonstop before her disappearance and murder. The police knew that the client used a burner phone. They also knew that Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Megan Waterman, and Melissa Barthelamy also received calls from burner phones. So there's a tie-in, most likely there. And we talked quite a bit about it, the similarities, right, between these victims and the burner phones was one of those back in 2012 the police with the help of the FBI determined that most of the burner phone calls received by the Gilgo fort connected to cell towers inside a small

area of Massapequa Park a village on Long Island this area became known as the box okay all right I mean it's cool what technology can do and they can zone in on that okay I like the sound effects. Yeah. You're assuming that's why they're called it the box because they've like boxed it in. Yep. Based on the description of the suspect in the Amber Costello case, the 2022 task force began searching for a large man who lived in this area and owned a first generation Chevy

avalanche. I mean, odds are good. They should be able to find somebody that matches that description. Yeah. An ogre driving a Chevy avalanche shouldn't be that. hard to find. A Chevy avalanche was registered to Rex Sherman at the time of the murders. And it's six foot four. You know, he kind of did match the description. And I'm not saying every guy that six four is an ogre. No. But, uh, you know, he wasn't slim Jim the raindrop Dodger either.

I mean, it kind of looks like an ogre. He's, he's pretty big guy. Not just tall. He's a little poorly as well. The discovery of the avalanche led to a comprehensive investigation. of Heurman. When investigators checked his personal phone records, they discovered his phone was in the same area as the burner phones when they were used to contact a victim in Massapequa Park or in Midtown Manhattan where Heurman worked. This was also true for the calls received by Melissa Bartholomey's family in 2009. And we talked about those, right? They were nasty. Yeah. I mean, the things that he said about Melissa, the things that that he said about her sister Amanda,

just vile stuff. But here's a guy thinking, you know what? I'm going to get a burner phone. And I'm going to beat the system. Sure. But he doesn't think enough about it, right? Because he's still bringing his own phone with him.

Right? Caring it around. Just because he's not using it. Yeah. Yeah. I get it. But it also may be. could be a couple of things. It could be not understanding fully technology, but it also could be thinking,

well, they're never going to connect me to the burner phone. So what does it matter? Yeah, that's true. Where my regular phone is. According to court documents, investigators could find no instance where Heerman was in a separate location from these other cell phones when such a communication event occurred. Not good for him. No, not good. Not good. Not not. the nail in the coffin, but it's not good at all. In total, there were seven burner phones. Shortly after each victim died, the phones were disposed of. Now, when you look at it like that, it's even worse, right?

It's not like they just connected him to one phone. They connected him to seven different phones, and each one of the previous ones was disposed of right after a victim died. Yeah, and the burner phones were connected to the victims, right? And I think if you're investigators, right, you're maybe in the war room making these discoveries. And I mean, people are probably high-fiving. Oh, yeah. They're probably cheering because this is such a big, you know, unsolved case at the time.

In 2023, officers observed Herman, putting money on one of his accounts at a cell phone store in Midtown Manhattan. He used the burner phones to send selfies to solicit and arrange for section. activity according to prosecutors. His American Express records revealed recurring Google payment payments made by Rex to Tinder, linked to a burner phone. A review of call records for two additional burner phones revealed both phones were used extensively between 2021 and 2003 for prostitution related contacts. So obviously he had a

pension. That's a great word for sex workers. Yep. I think that's very safe to say. The task force also documented three email accounts using fake names, such as John Springfield, Thomas Hawk, and Hunter 1903A3, all linked to the burner numbers. You know, the good thing there is, we did not hear the name Rex West. Oh, I was going to add that in.

They also found the name Rex West associated to one of these burner phones. Between March 22 and June 2020, one of the accounts linked to Herman searched the internet for sites related to active and known serial killers, the specific disappearances and murders of Maureen, Brainerd Barnes, Melissa Bartholomey, Megan Waterman, and Amber Costello, and the investigation into their murders, as well as thousands of searches related to sex workers,

sadistic and torture-related pornography, and even child pornography. Wow. Okay. I mean, obviously, we're talking about a very nasty, vile individual. Sure. We know that based on the murders and everything, but, you know, it just keeps getting worse, right?

The more that comes out, I think, you know, if you take all of this stuff in a, in a vacuum by itself, I say this in a lot of episodes. Okay, it doesn't make you look good, but would it be enough to convict? No, probably not. But you start stacking all of these things on top of each other. And it does become very slam dunkish at a certain point. But look at this guy. I mean, he, he's kind of full of himself, right?

he's going out searching on what he's done. Yeah. But is that unusual for a serial killer? No, they like that, right? They like to read about themselves. Yep. Now, we're in the internet age. Yeah.

So this guy can very easily search for things about, you know, crimes and the things that he's done. The other thing is we know that in the past, serial killers have revisited crime scenes. I mean, they do all kinds of stuff. One specific search was, why hasn't the Long Island serial killer been caught? I guess it's a good thing. The guy didn't have chat GPT back in the day, you know, because he would have been asking it all kinds of questions. The task force began surveilling Huraman at the beginning of 2023.

On January 26th of that year, the surveillance team recovered a pizza box that he'd thrown into a trash can on fifth afternoon. which was sent to the Suffolk County Crime Lab for analysis, right? They got to get the guy's DNA. And I'll be honest with you, man. I'm always fascinated by the links that the authorities will go to to try to get someone's DNA, whether it's, you know, tailing them, surveilling them, waiting for them to drink out of a straw and then, you know, pouncing and picking it with a glove and throwing it into

a baggie or whatever it is. Now, a pizza box is a little different, but, you know, DNA's on everything pretty much. My DNA's all over here. I know. I'm not happy about it either. On April 28, 2003, a detective hand-delivered a male hair found on Megan Waterman's body that had been presented as evidence to the same lab. On June 12th of that year, the lab compared the DNA from the pizza crust and the hair. and determine that the profiles were the same. And that 99.96% of the North American population could be excluded.

Oh, that's huge. It is. Now, is that, you know, the one in however many trillion numbers that we're hearing, you know, nowadays? No, but it's still a very, very high likelihood that this is him. And then, again, as we're stacking the, the building blocks of a case, that's just another thing that is, you know, going to doom him. Prosecutors wrote, it's significant that Huraman cannot be excluded from the male hair recovered

near the bottom of the burlap used to restrain and transport Megan Waterman's naked and deceased body. Yeah, I mean, it's basically saying he's the one that did that. Yeah. To the exclusion of, what, 99.9.9.000. 9% of all the people in North America. Yeah. However, advancements in DNA technology allowed for testing with mitochondrial DNA of, you know, hairs that were found with each victim. But they were worried because they were too degraded to test for DNA with kind of the old

techniques. Yeah. So these advancements were huge. Makes it tough, right? Yeah. Well, it would have been impossible if they had tried to do this, you know, let's say five, ten maybe years earlier. I mean, again, thank goodness for technology. It's helped solve a lot of cases, especially in the area of DNA for sure. Back in July 22, 11 bottles were collected from a trash can outside Herman's home and sent for DNA testing. DNA profiles were generated from the bottles. And were tested against previously tested hair samples from the remains of Megan Waterman and Amber Costello. The hair belonged to Herman's wife, Asa Ellera.

However, investigators did not believe his wife was involved in the murders. And the hair could, you know, be explained by something like as simple as a transfer because they did live together. Yeah. I mean, I don't think everybody realizes. I'm sure a lot of people do because, you know, our viewers and listeners, they're smart, right? But I don't know that everybody realizes that, you know, we're just transferring hairs and DNA all over the place.

Like I said, mine's all over here. I know. And please stop saying it. I've heard it enough and I don't want to think about it. But, I mean, how hard would it be for, you know, we ate dinner together tonight before. we started recording our episodes and it was me, you, my wife, my daughter, I'm sure my wife's hair is all over the place, right? Yeah. My hair is all over the place. How hard would it be to

attach to your clothing? Then you get into your vehicle. You drive home now my hair, my wife's hair is in your home. Yeah, your wife's hair or your daughter's hair. Let's not go as far with your hair. But from the back, I have some in the back still that could, you know, theoretically fall out. But you have to think, you know, that's very possible. Yeah. And I'm sure I do have, you know, somebody in your family's hair there. I mean, or at least your dogs or cats too. You're here every week.

So it's going to happen. The chances of it being in your vehicle and, and probably transferring it into your home, I'd say, are pretty high. But the fact that they have his wife's hair, I think that's a. that's another confirmation, right? I mean, it's not his, but it's his wife's and how else could that get there? Well, either she's involved, which they don't think she is, or it's because he's a murderer and he happened to have one of her hairs on him and it somehow ended up on the victim. A hair from Amber Costello's remains was tested and also matched the DNA on a bottle. Prosecutors wrote that this meant it is likely that the burlap, tape, vehicles, and other items used in the murders came

from Hurerman's home. I mean, I think the one thing you'd have to say is it is not looking good for Rex Hurerman. No. I mean, they are just building, you know, brick after brick against him. You know, folks, it's summertime and that changes how I get dressed. You know, I want pieces that are breathable, easy, but still make me look put together. And that's why I just keep coming back to Quince. You know, Quince has high quality pieces that feel and look amazing and the prices are unbelievable. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands. This is because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middlemen. So what you're paying for is quality and not brand markup. They have European linen pants and shirts. And sure.

starting at just $34. I love everything I've bought from Quince, but my absolute favorite is their flow-knit active work. Joggers, tops. It's my go-to. But Quince goes beyond clothing. They have everything from sofas to ceramic cookware, and my daughter loves their premium betting.

Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash T-Cat for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too. That's QI-N-C-E-E-D. slash T-C-A-T-T for free shipping and 365-day returns, quince.com slash T-Cat. Rex Sherman was arrested at his office in Midtown Manhattan on July 13,

2003. At the time of his arrest, he was carrying a burner phone, linked to an email account used to conduct suspicious online searches. This man is like the burner phone king. Yeah. Probably own some stock in it. Well, I'm assuming a large part of that is because he's married.

Yes. Doesn't want his wife knowing all of this stuff. I mean, this is aside from the murders. Yeah, this is. Because he is cheating. He's obviously on tender and soliciting sex workers and doing all this other stuff. In addition to what they believe are these murders that he committed. I mean, he's taken.

Ogre selfies. Yeah. Sending them out to, you know. I think he's probably got it a little further south, but maybe. I don't know what this guy was doing. Oh, man. He was charged with multiple counts of murder for the deaths of Melissa, Megan, and Amber. Cureman appeared in court on July 14th.

And he pleaded not guilty to three counts of first degree murder and three counts of second degree murder. court documents released after his arrest noted that while he was in charge with the murder of Maureen Brainerd Barnes, he was the main suspect. So to me, that just means they didn't find any DNA match. But, you know, let's go back to, you know, where were the victims dumped? Right. The proximity. It's hard not to believe that one person didn't commit.

all those murders. So how could he not be the main suspect? But there is a certain level of evidence needed right to charge. Heerman's defense attorney Michael J. Brown told reporters that the accusations were circumstantial. And Heurman denied any involvement. He said, the only thing he did say as he was in tears was, I didn't do this. He's distraught. He's clearly distraught about the charges here.

Oh, tears. His six foot four ogre just crying his eyes out. But yeah, I am sure he is clearly distraught. Who wouldn't be if they were charged with multiple murders? Yeah, because he knows what that means. It's not going to be good. Now, if you didn't do it, you're distraught for a number of reasons. But even if you did it, you're still distraught because you got caught.

Yeah. Right. So. And what's he going to say? Yeah, I did it. Yeah, some people do, but not most. At least not up front. They're not in the beginning. You don't want to cave right in the beginning. During a press conference, Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison told the media, Rex Sherman is a demon that walks among us, a predator that ruined families. Man's a demon. Right here. Frog demon. Yeah. I don't argue with that one bit.

commissioner Harrison added Herman had a double life. He had a wife. He had two kids. He was an architect. And then I guess at nighttime turned into a monster. You know, we've heard this before with other serial killers, right? Yeah. Unfortunately, a lot of them do lead double lives. And when it all comes out, their families are shocked.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. I mean, they can't even comprehend it. And I don't even know how they, they pull it. off. I mean, when you think about it. I don't either. I kind of sometimes think back to, you know, we both love the show Dexter. And obviously at a certain point in that show, he got married. Yeah. And he, I mean, he was leading a double life from the get-go. But then he was really leading a double life and had to be even more careful because, you know, he's got a wife. And then at some point, he has a child and all of that. I think about the second episode we ever did on DK. cat, well, that you did on TCAT of the ice man.

Were you not there? We redid it later. Oh, that's right. I did. I had to do it by myself for some reason. Why was that? Because you wanted to see how the podcast would go without the Gibi sitting next to you. Oh, that's true.

I didn't like it. Yeah. I didn't like it. But I remember, you know, he was like, when he was home, he was like this perfect family guy. Oh, yeah. You know. And actually a good family guy. But we know when he left.

He was killing people. Yeah. He was a serious, serious hit man. Suffolk County DA Ramman Tyranny revealed that the investigation involved over 300 subpoenas and search warrants. That does seem like a very high number. That is a high number. The task force had to balance evidence gathering with public safety.

They wanted to allow the grand jury investigation to go further, but they also felt like they had to take this guy down. Yeah. And I understand the balance there, but I think they did the right thing because this guy's walking around with another burner phone. He is talking with or soliciting sex workers. I mean, isn't it just a matter of time before he claims another victim? Very true. You ever been in a part of a grand jury? I have not.

Have you? Part of a grand jury? No. This is the subject? of a grand jury. I've definitely not been that. D.A. Tyranny said, when we decided to take down the case, we, you know, it was a sudden decision. We did see him contacting a number of sex workers using a burner phone, which

obviously is concerning. Tierney said about Herman's internet searches, there was a lot of torture, porn, and depictions of women being abused, being raped and being killed. Yeah, this guy was sick. He was sick in his actions, but also sick in his fetishes. Oh, yeah. And I'm sure some of that maybe had a, or played a large part in what he ultimately decided to do in real life, right? Some people can keep their fetishes, even when they're sick, separate from real life.

Doesn't sound like he could or didn't want to either way. Yeah, he decided to cross into the world world. Herman was conducting searches on the task force, even on the victims. According to tyranny, he was searching for pictures of their families and trying to locate those individuals. Why? So he could call them and harass them, drive by their house and get a sick thrill out of that? I think he really did get off, maybe literally as well, on doing that. I assumed when you said that, you were, you meant literally, but I think he looked at the family members too because I think if he found somebody that resembled the victim, I think he really did something for him. And to the point, maybe he wanted to see if he could get a hold of them.

Maybe. Yeah, you might be on to something there. The police spent the next 12 days searching Hurman's property, they dug in the yard and seized. 279 weapons. Wow. Wow. Whoa. And 92 handgun permits from a walk-in vault in the basement. Investigators also took framed pictures and a doll from the home and searched a nearby storage unit. They brought in ground penetrating sonar and cadaver dogs. I'm trying to think what this doll must have looked like.

Did you say doll or dog? The doll. Oh, doll. Yeah. I can picture what the dog look like. No, the doll. It's a regular dog. Yeah, I don't know what they mean by doll.

Yeah. I don't know if we're talking about like a cabbage patch kid here or like that doll you have a life size variety that you keep under your bed, which you always tell me not to talk about, but I'm bringing it up anyway. But let's go back to 279 weapons. Wow. Yeah. You know, I understand. A lot of people, they like to have something to defend themselves, to defend their home. I don't know why anybody needs 279 weapons.

Unless you're going to start an uprising or arm a small militia. 92 handguns, I mean. Well, 92 handgun permits. Yeah, permits. But that would mean what? You probably have 92 handguns somewhere. Yeah. Why so many handguns?

Why so many guns, period? or weapons period. Investigators sees the first generation's Chevy Amvalanche. I cannot say the word avalanche for some reason. Yeah, it's just, you know. We're going to go with it. From his property in South Carolina,

according to law enforcement sources, investigators were looking into whether any victims were killed at Herman's home. I mean, I think you've got to keep everything on the table. Absolutely. At this point. And I think you also have to wonder, then we're going to talk about it as we go.

I mean, how many victims could this guy possibly have? Oh, much more. At this point in the investigation, right? You have to be thinking that. Sure. How prolific of a serial killer are we dealing with here? Residents of Massa Pequil Park told CBS New York, they were stunned by the arrest.

Hurman's next door neighbor, Ateen de Villiers said, We've been here for almost 30 years, and the guy's been quiet, never really bothers anybody. It's kind of what you hear something. We hear it all the time, you know, right? Great neighbor. This guy, he plowed my driveway of snow. He helped me bring in the groceries.

Well, you know, this guy's quiet. He never bothers anybody. That's because he's plotting a murder 24-7. He doesn't have time to bother anybody else. You know, everybody knows somebody at super. quiet never really says much those people you gotta worry about right which you know see i am very talkative you on the other hand are reserved and less verbose yeah hence there's probably something wrong with you well there's no doubt there's something wrong with me yeah i don't think wherever

is we're really talking about the degree at this point right yeah former neighbor rosemary kofka told NBC, you know, the regular guy who goes to work has kids in the local school and in a good neighborhood, but he's killing people on the side. And I do think that would be shocking to not just family, right? It's going to be unbelievably shocking to your wife and kids, but also neighbors. You know, you've been living next to this person for years and years and years. All of a sudden, you find out that investigators think he's this very prolific. serial killer? Yeah. Yeah, there's going to be some discussions. Absolutely. At dinner around that. So let's talk about Rex Heerman. He was born on September 13th, 1963, and he grew up in Massapequa Park

in a quiet neighborhood where everyone knew everyone. It was said that he was born in the house that he was raised in. Okay. So long, long term homestead. Okay. Well, most people are not born in a house. No, that's true. So I think you're skipping over that part. I think that's the main part. His mama popped him out inside the house. Yes, I think is what they're saying. Yeah. After the arrest, actor Billy Baldwin tweeted, woke up this morning to learn that the Gilgo Beach serial killer suspect was my high school classmate, Rex Huron. me. You know, Billy, you probably were super shocked,

but, yeah. Well, I mean, there's so many Baldwin's. There's got to be a connection.

Somewhere. Somewhere between one of them to some serial killer. They graduated from Burner High School in 1981. Chime is fee-free

banking built for you. They are not like the stuffy, traditional old banks. Charging you overdraft and monthly fees. Chime does things differently. They also have thousands of fee-free ATMs.

Why in the world would you pay to get your own money? Chime is rated five stars by USA Today for customer service. They have real humans 24-7. And I mentioned that Chime is different. They have SpotMe, which lets you overdraft up to $200 fee-free. You can even get up to $500 of your pay when you want with my pay. With the Chime card, you can get 5% cash back in a category of your, choice like gas or groceries.

I would have benefited so much from Chime when I was younger. I can remember just not even knowing all the different fees I was paying back in the day. Chime is not just smarter banking. It's the most rewarding way to back. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. Head to chime.com slash T-Cat. That's chime.com slash T-CATT. It only takes a few minutes to sign up.

Chime is a fintech, not a bank, banking services for my pay. and Chime card provided by Chimes Bank Partners. For more information on APY rates, my pay, spot me, and travel perks, go to chime.com slash disclosures. Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Rex's childhood friend John Perisi told 48 hours that they met in first or second grade.

Herman was bullied and he never fought back. Despite the fact that he was big enough to physically retaliate against his, enemies. Yeah. He just didn't want to, huh? I don't know. Maybe he was scared. I don't know. Obviously, at some point, he was six foot four and he must have weighed over 300 pounds. He was a big guy. And then as Rex got older, girls rejected him, right? It was said that his awkward stage, which we all kind of go through one, just lasted a lot longer than

other people's. It kind of looks like he'd have an awkward stage. lasted a little longer. Yeah. I mean, he had a strange look to him. Yeah. Rex's father, Theodore Heerman died in 1975 at the age of 50. His mother, Dolores, I think even right now is in her 90s. And as far as I know, she is still a lot. So it sounds like maybe his mom was more of the role model for him. Not role model, but the person that took care of him. Because his dad dying, it, you know, died pretty early. Pretty early. Yeah, I see where you're going with that.

Classmates previously said Rex was bizarrely close to his controlling mother and described him as a mama's boy. Yeah, I can see that. I can see that. Kind of, what's the, uh, Ed Gein? His mom kind of controlling and he was definitely a mama's boy. Yeah. So.

So much so that he wanted to wear a suit. Yeah. A little woman. But it was said that he'd often kind of leave hanging out with friends saying, I have to get home to my mother. All right. So you said Ed Gein, maybe we got a little, you know, Ed Kemper here. I mean, obviously Ed had his own issues with his mom.

But, uh, Herman never spoke about his father to friends. However, he later bragged that his dad was an aerospace engineer who built satellites. He also said that his dad built cabinets and taught him how to construct furniture. In 1990, Heurman married a woman named Elizabeth Ryan. In 1994, he purchased the house in Massapequa Park from his mother for $170,000. Shortly after his first marriage failed, it was said that he kept everything exactly the same from his childhood. So you mentioned homestead, right?

Long-term homestead. And now you find out what really was long-term because not only was he born in this house, he grew up in this house, but then as an adult, he bought the house from his mom and made it his family home. I mean, I don't say this is like,

you know, the Bates Motel or something, but I'm getting a real strange vibe. Clearly this was where he was comfortable at and probably enjoyed having that that has his main house. But here's the thing. It's not weird to buy a home from your family, right? A home that you grew up in.

Jim did it on the office and him and Pam moved in. Yeah. It's fine. But to not change it at all, to keep it the way that you were when you were a child. Yeah. That part seems very strange to me. Yeah, I find it strange. And I think other people did as well.

Heerman founded his New York City architecture firm, R.H. consultants and associates in 1994, per the company website. His firm was located blocks from where Maureen Brainer Barnes disappeared in the same area where several phone calls to Melissa Bartholomey's younger sister were made. Heerman worked with major clients, including Target, Foot Locker, Catholic Charities, American Airlines, and New York City's Department of Environmental Protection. So he was connected. I mean, it sounds like he was doing pretty well for himself, right? He had a company. He was an architect.

I'm sure that huge companies like Target and American Airlines and Foot Locker love the fact that they're connected to Rex Sherman in any way. According to his websites, Meet the Team page throughout the years, Rex Sherman has provided services to other city agencies, not-for-profit agencies, builders, developers, and individual owners of buildings in regard to ADA, NYC, and New York State Codes as well as zoning consultation. Sounds like the firm was successful, busy.

Yeah, I mean, I don't understand half of that, but, I mean, no one. I know. That's your language, Mensa. Yeah. And you are an architect slash doctor slash attorney slash catch me if you can. I mean, I'm just a humble podcaster. I worked in the architect field. I learned from, you know, Art Van der Leigh.

So I learned a lot. Yeah. Yeah. That's why you had that license plate that said ass man. Exactly. Because you were also a proctologist. But no. mean, I think when, you know, because we do talk a lot about the victims and you get a sense of who they,

they were as a person. It's also important, though, to talk about Herman. You know, what was his background? What was it like growing up? This whole kind of mama's boy thing is a little strange. Sure. Takes it, because I think a lot of guys are mama's boy to a mom's boys to a certain extent, right? All right. You love your mama. I get that. But. you know, are you wearing her bathrobe or are you not changing the house because mama wouldn't like it? I mean, I just don't know how deep we are here. There's something there for sure. And it doesn't seem right to me. You know, we were talking about, you know, how he went to school and won the Baldwin's and then he started this firm. All these people, you know, is this is coming out

in the news. I mean, the people he works with, people, clients. I mean, what are they? thinking. Are they just shaking their heads? Are they like? Yeah. How disgust? I'm assuming they're making a call real quick saying, hey, can you please get our name off your website? For sure. As soon as possible to some admin somewhere.

Also though, like 27% of all Americans probably went to school with a Baldwin at some point. And I'm not just even talking about the last name Baldwin. I'm talking about the Baldwin family of actors. Yeah. You know, me and Stephen went

school together. I know. There's a lot of bald ones, man. There is. So we said that, you know, he had married, his marriage fell apart. Then in 1996, Heerman married Asa Ellery, an immigrant from Iceland. Asa had a son named Christopher Sheridan. She and Rex had one child together. They had a daughter named Victoria, Heerman. Asa usually took the kids to visit her family in Iceland during the summer, police believe Heurman killed the victims while she was away.

You know, that was the opportunity time for him, right? When the wife is gone, yep, the husband will play. I mean, you know, we talk about, and I think you asked the question, right, how do you do all this stuff when you have a wife, children, you're leading this double life, how are you pulling it off? Well, I think this is one way. You know, if the wife and kids are gone for an entire summer, well, that's a big opportunity to go out hunting, do all this stuff with the burner phones and all of that that you probably couldn't do as easily if everybody was home. Totally agree.

It was said that the family lived in the rundown home, right, that he was born in and generally kept to themselves. But Hureman stood out to his neighbors because he was a large man who dressed very formally for work. And he did, didn't he? I remember seeing some pictures of him. He's really. Suit and tie guy. But, yeah. Looked like custom.

Well, he is six four. Probably was custom suits. Well, it was like Shrek wearing a suit, I think is what they thought. He wasn't green, but, you know, he was tall. He was big. His neighbor, Barry Oslander, told the AP that it was strange how the house was a dump. but Hurman commuted to work each day wearing a suit and tie. And it is strange, right?

You own your own architectural firm. You're working with Target and Foot Locker and American Airlines, yet you're living in a dump? You don't want to spend the money on your own home to dress it up, make it look better. It seems weird. Neighbor Gabrielle Lollabarto also told the AP, this house sticks out like a sore thumb.

There was overgrown shrubs. there was always wood in front of the house. It was very creepy. I wouldn't send my child there. It sounds creepy. Yeah. Well, probably a good thing you didn't send your child there. Yeah.

Heerman's friend, David Jimenez, said about his family life, per the New York Post. He ruled that house like the old 1950-style family, traditional, right? He was very secure, very much a man, but in a very secure, masculine way, not in an obnoxious way. He looked after his wife and kids. He would protect Asa. He would look out for her when she was suffering from, you know, many of the physical ailments she has, especially later in life. I think he has a split personality because the only side I ever saw of him was as an assured, smart, together guy, you know? Not surprised that he could have that.

Well, I'm never surprised because, again, as I've said and you've said it too, I do believe, right? These types of individuals, they allow you to see what they want you to see, right? They're putting that forward. They're not showing you the bad part of themselves. They don't want to show you the demon. No. They want you to think that, hey, you know, this guy's all right. He takes care of his family.

he might live in a shithole, but he's a nice guy and he's a good neighbor. He's quiet. I mean, as far as you know, when I leave here, I just go home. I don't assume that at all. Oh. I assume you take out your burner phone, which you're not showing us. You've got your real one here. Yeah. But you take out your burner phone, hit tender, and whatever happens after that happens. Christina's late.

Your girlfriend's going to love that. What? that's for you he's just joking no i am not oh my kid oh that's funny i think gibbs the thing for me here right is when you you talk about rex heerman he wasn't like some serial killers right you have some who are loners yeah they don't want to draw any attention to themselves but not this guy this guy is more of, you know, what you would think of maybe along the lines of a John Wayne Gacy. Yeah. He's out there.

I mean, he's got an architectural firm. He's successful. He had a website. His information was all over the website. He even did an interview in 2022 with Bonjour Realty, which was posted on YouTube. So he wasn't shy or he wasn't shrinking away. from any type of attention. He was interviewed by Antoine Amira,

a food and beverage manager in New York, who also loves real estate. He interviews people who he thinks are interesting and accomplished. Rex Sherman was well known for finding loopholes to help companies and individuals get building permits. Which is a, you know, a great skill to have. Yeah, because, uh, Who doesn't want that?

Who doesn't need that at some point if you're a business? So this Amira guy thought Rex was pretty smart. He would later tell 48 hours that there was nothing about Heerman that made him think he was dangerous. Throughout the interview, he noticed that it was hard to get him to smile. Heerman described himself as an architect, an architectural consultant, a troubleshooter. When a job that should have been routine suddenly becomes not routine, I get the phone call. He explained how he was born and raised on Long Island and had been working in Manhattan since 1987.

His niche was troubleshooting with the city's department of buildings. When he was asked how he got into that, he explained that the first architect he worked for was a man named Harvey Rutherberg. In 1987, a new law was issued regarding handicap access. He had to read the law because he was the new guy at the front. So he reads this. and when there was an issue with the city, he was sent to work it out.

He did so well with it that his boss made him work with the city for another job and that's how he got started. He became this for me, the subject matter expert. Yeah, I haven't heard that term in a while. But let's go back and talk about this guy on YouTube. There was nothing about this man

who made him, that made him think this guy was dangerous. Yeah. Dangerous to him. him, let alone a prolific serial killer. And that's what I think is scary about a lot of these serial killers is that they're able to pull some of these things off, right? Be successful.

Have a wife and kids, a family. And then on the side, they are hunting for and murdering people. Yeah, I mean, I think there was just something that clicked with him when he was with his victims that turn him into this monster. But outside of that, it sounds like he was just a kind of a regular guy. Yeah, outside of that. Yeah. Yeah, better make that caveat.

Or was that always there? He just didn't show it, right? He's putting on, the other part is him putting on the show. Well, that's true. The nice guy. Yeah. I don't know. But, you know, you want to think of the serial killer is the guy that you would

spot on the street, right? The Henry Lee Lucas type. Yeah. Not the, oh, who's the, the Ted Bundy type. Ted Bundy, BTK, you know. I thought he was kind of weird looking. Did you think he was kind of weird? Yeah. I think I would look at BTK and be like, I don't know about that guy. But Ted Bundy was, you know, he's a pretty normal looking guy. Yeah. Um, obviously went to law school and all that. Now, Henry Lee Lucas. Oh, he, uh, yeah, I'd cross the street. street if I saw that guy 30 yards down the way. I mean, you know, he and Audist, they had like one tooth between the two of them. I'd be like, kids, get in the car. We're leaving the town. You'd like Chevy Chase and vacation. Roll them up. You're warm up. So, all right. So he's got this

kind of niche that, you know, he's good at. And he's working for this guy who was doing a lot of work for nonprofits and um, human started working with building codes, drawings for facilities. And, um, he said that Herman did that he quickly found out that the building department couldn't even understand their own codes and their own laws.

So part of his job became kind of educating the system, uh, the city about their own codes. Yeah, that doesn't surprise me. It doesn't surprise me either. Then when he started his own firm, his first paying client was Robert Meyer. Heerman recalled that he was in the Queens Building Department waiting in line.

And Meyer was dealing with a clerk. It didn't know what he was doing. Heerman was impatient. So he took his paperwork, explained to the clerk what he needed. Then he explained to Meyer what he needed to do next. Heerman was asked, what qualities a person in his position needs? His answer, patience and tolerance. He said, I don't like to use the word tolerance, but sometimes you have to.

And it's not just with the city, it's also with the client because most clients, they don't understand what I have to do, why I have to do it, and what it takes to get done. When asked what the job taught him about himself, he said it taught him how to understand people. Dealing with the technical aspects can be learned, but dealing with people is an interesting aspect of the job. So there was one last question in this interview. And it was asked of Herman, if he was a tool or an object that would help him bring his business to greater heights, what would he be? So I think it's a strange question, but you know.

Yeah. He answered, I build furniture at home and I still build it in the same exact workshop. I have one tool that's pretty much used in almost every job. And it's actually a cabinet maker's hammer. It's persuasive enough when I need to persuade something. That's interesting. It is. Yeah.

And I don't know if he's talking about just making cabinets or talking about something else. But the interview actually asked, not someone, you know, persuade something. Yeah. Not someone. So it's just a real kind of interesting back and forth. Now, it wouldn't have been until it comes out what this guy is thought to have done. Herman's wife, Asa, filed for divorce in July 2023, just days after he was arrested. She was told to leave the home with only the clothes she was wearing and wasn't allowed to return during the 12-day search.

Investigator seized all devices in the house, including the ones belonging to her and her adult children. Her attorney, Bob Macedonio, said she was as shocked as anyone else. She had no idea any of this was going on. Nobody wants to think that they've been living with sleeping next to a serial killer for the past 25 years. I'm sure she was physically ill from all this. Yeah. I mean, does it surprise you that she files for divorce immediately upon learning of this? Doesn't me either.

Macedonia said about the family, their life going forward is always going to be the wife or the children. of a suspected serial killer. Yeah. It's not Bob. It's going to be the wife and children of a convicted serial killer. We haven't gotten to that part yet, and he didn't know it yet. Melissa Moore, the daughter of serial killer Keith Jesperson, set up a go-fund me for Asa,

which raised over $50,000. Asa was diagnosed with breast and skin cancer. Herman was the sole provider. So she lost her health insurance after. He was arrested. At least somebody is stepping up to help her. And you think, well,

this is somebody who knows what she's going through. Yeah. And, you know, she was part of that whole happy face killer, the daughter of the happy face killer. Yeah.

I don't know if you watch that. I did. Yeah. She was the daughter of the happy face girl. Yeah. Sherman's coworkers, Muriel Henriquez and Maryshell spoke to 48 hours after his arrest.

They were in complete. shot when they heard he had been charged with murder. Muriel recalled that Rex once gave her a sweater that his wife brought back from Iceland. Most likely the same summer, he killed Maureen Brainer Barnes in 2007. This is scary, you know? The sweater or the fact that he killed someone the same summer? Yeah, and just that relationship, you know, the, here's your partner or somebody you worked with. Yeah. Well, you and I have worked with a lot of people over the years. Yeah. Many people. Some, we may have suspected of being serial killers. Sure, we did. You know, but to find out that someone actually was that you had worked with for, you know,

let's say, 5, 10, 15, 20, 20, 25 years, that would be very shocking. It would be. Even if you thought they were a little strange and possibly could be to actually find out they were, it would be strange. And what does this do for your living too, right? I mean, if you have a, you know, your partner or you work at his firm. I don't think they were partners. I think he owned it. Yeah, he owned it.

They were working at his firm. So now what? Now you're out of a job. Just like his wife. Right? I mean, that's horrible. She has like these very serious health conditions.

And all of a sudden, she has no insurance. Yeah. So Emmy, it just goes to show you, right, how many people are affected by these actions of these serial killers. Muriel said there was nothing

that seemed frightening about Rex. A little bit of a nerd in a way. He liked to talk about himself and what he knew. Not a narcissist, but, you know, a bit of a, you know, I know everything kind of guy. Yeah. Yeah, we know people like that. She said Rex was an avid hunter, but she was surprised to learn that the police recovered almost 300 firearms from a vault in his basement. I'm still shocked about that. Yeah, that is a huge number. Now, she did recall one strange incident that she said threw her off. she had booked a cruise to celebrate her 40th birthday. Rex asked her where she was going.

She said she was going to be in the middle of the ocean, and he wouldn't be able to find her. He replied, oh, yes, I can. Oh, okay. creepy. And I said it as creepily as I could. Yes, you did. During the second day of her cruise,

a white envelope was slipped under her door with a note from Rex that said, I told you I could find you anywhere. Oh, my gosh. Okay. That's either, I guess, kind of cool or it's very, very creepy. Well, after everything comes out, it's definitely creepy. Yeah, it would obviously be creepy after that. Mary Shell started working for Rax in the summer of 2010 when she graduated art school.

She spoke to former female employees who felt disrespected by Rax. For example, he would ask a woman in the office to clean toilets. If he thought the cleaning staff didn't do a good job, he would also, make comments if a woman gained weight. Okay, so one of those type of guys. Yeah, which is kind of horrible, but especially since he was, you know, again, not the skinniest guy in the world. Yeah. A woman named Nicole Brass later came forward and told 48 hours that she may have survived an encounter with Herman. She's now a hairdresser, but she used to do escort work. And one night she was solicited by Rex Heerman, during their date, he seemed excited to talk about the murders.

She said he was very detailed. And it didn't seem like somebody who was just a true crime fan. Yeah. He seemed like somebody who, as they talked about it, was kind of reliving it in their head. Like he seemed excited. It peaked his interest. He sat up straighter.

He relaxed his body. He seemed like really excited to talk about it. Like, can we get to check? I need to get out. Or just, yeah, open the door, let me out, whatever the situation was. He also talked specifically about the bodies on Gilgo Beach. She said he wanted to, like, really get into it. Like, he asked me how I thought they could get rid of the bodies without being caught in that area.

And I said, like, I've never been over there. I'm never even seeing Gilgo Beach. And his response, well, it's really dark and desolate. Of course, because he knows. He does know. Nicole left the date early. She recalled I'd never gone anywhere and like felt fear. My gut was telling me I needed to get away and I never had that before. Somebody was looking out for her that night. Well, or she just had the right, she listened to her gut. Yeah. And it worked for neighbor Etienne de Villiers. I have a hard time saying that.

Yes, you do. Also reported that his wife once caught Herman peeking over the fence at her. Well, she was sunbathing. He complied when he was told to stop. DeVilleille said that he never saw a streak of violence, though, in Rex. Again, you're not going to see the monster normally, I don't think, unless the monster wants you to see that side. Just trying to, you know, the fence is probably like six foot. He's six foot four. Hey, I'm not peeking over, man.

I'm just, I'm just standing here. I'm just here. But, you know, does that surprise you? You know, we have somebody who has sexual compulsions, maybe even a sexual addiction. This is it surprised you that he would be like a peeping Tom sort and kind of spy on his neighbor's wife who's sunbathing. No. Doesn't surprise me at all. The investigation eventually expanded to South Carolina in Las Vegas where Heerman owned property.

Detectives looked into other cases of missing women and unsolved murders, hoping Hurman's DNA, would be a match. But here's the thing, right? We said he lived in a dump, his childhood home, but yet he owns property in South Carolina, Las Vegas. So it seems even more strange. Seems, you know, seems like he's doing pretty good, right? He has some money. But he just didn't want to take care of his childhood house the way that most people would. Yeah, it does seem strange. In late July, 2003, Suffolk County Sheriff Errol Toulon Jr. said that more female sex workers came forward to report that they had contact with Rex Sherman. His staff was going to vet their statements to confirm if he did have contact

with them and see if that leads in new directions. And did you just yawn while I was talking? No. Because I saw it out of the corner of my eye. I was stretching my elbow. Everybody saw it, dude. I am sorry to bore you. You're not. Oh, on July 17, 2003, Heerman's attorney Michael Brown issued a statement. He said, there's nothing about Mr. Heerman that would suggest that he's involved in these incidents. And while the government has decided to focus on him, despite more significant and stronger leads, we're looking forward to defending him in a court of law before a fair and impartial jury of his peers.

And I don't agree with any part of that statement. I mean, I know the defense has to say that. Yeah. But, you know, to say there's nothing that suggests that he's involved in these incidents, that's just, it's wrong. I mean, he might be looking forward to some of that PR he's going to be getting. Yeah. And money, right? He's going to be getting paid.

Brown spoke exclusively with ABC in front of the courthouse the very next day. He said he first met Rex at his arraignment. And his first impression was, nothing struck me as unusual. about he was articulate he was intelligent he was soft-spoken he also said he would have a challenging case ahead of him because hereman appeared to have been convicted in the media already and the media public opinion he expressed concerns about getting a biased jury again to me it's all you know defense speak sure he's saying stuff to try to get out ahead of other stuff but to say there's no evidence that he he had to have known at the

that point, at least some of what was going to come. Brown said the state had circumstantial evidence against chairman, such as phone records, internet searches and DNA evidence. He noted that he deemed this circumstantial evidence because there were no eyewitnesses and no confessions from his client. You know, but when you have DNA, that is 99.9.9, you know, uh, 96%. Do you need eye witness? No, but I wouldn't deem that circumstantial evidence.

I wouldn't either. DNA, also phone records, internet searches. I guess you could call some of it circumstantial because it puts him there, right? At the same time these calls were made, there's nobody to say I saw him on that phone or, you know. So in a way, some of that could be circumstantial. I think the DNA is a little bit tougher. Yeah. Because it really does kind of point to him specifically.

But, you know, as we wrap this one up, the Long Island serial killer has been arrested, right? By this point. But prosecutors still had a long road ahead of them. Yeah. They had to connect human not just to these murders, but to additional murders. So in part four, we'll cover additional charges.

and evidence uncovered throughout the investigation and the resolution of the Long Island serial killer case. But I think law enforcement has to feel pretty good where they're sitting right now. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, if you're talking about the Gilgo four,

I think they feel pretty good. They feel very good about the three in which they have a DNA connection. Yeah. And they probably feel pretty good about Maureen as well. but they're going to need more. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Than what they have so far in the story. But we got a voicemail.

You want to check that out? All right, let's listen. Hi, my name is Melissa Alexander. I'm from Woodstock, Ontario, Canada. And I recently started listening to your podcast and was wondering if you've ever done the true crime story, Tori Stafford. It's a girl that was kidnapped, I think, in the early 2000.

It's a true story that happened in Woodstock to a little girl. I think she was only like seven years old. There's been a different few podcasts that have done her story, but I kind of wanted to see what your opinion was about it, and if you have done it before. but I thought it could be something that you guys could do. It looks like it was July 15, 2000 that it was, and she was kidnapped and it goes through the whole story.

But, yeah, I didn't know if you've heard about it before, but I thought maybe it's something that you guys would be interested in doing if you haven't have done it. And I just wanted to say that I really enjoy your podcast. Thank you. Bye. All right. Thanks for the voicemail.

I looked, I don't think we've done it, but the name is so familiar. Maybe Morph and I did it on criminology. There's a probable chance of that. A probable chance. You probably did that. There's a probable chance.

Oh, yeah. It's so familiar to me. But again, and if not, it doesn't matter. You and I could still do it. should. But thank you for the voicemail. And that's it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.