True Crime All The Time - Lori Vallow Daybell Part 1

Episode Date: October 16, 2023

Lori Vallow Daybell is known as the “doomsday mom” or the “cult mom.” She was recently convicted of killing her 16-year-old daughter and her 7-year-old son and conspiring to kill her husband’s first wife. Lori appeared to be a perfectly normal, loving mother for many years, but she changed in 2018 when she met doomsday author Chad Daybell. Lori started to believe in light and dark spirits, zombies, and prophecies from the Bible. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Lori Vallow Daybell. In part one of the Lori Vallow Daybell episodes, we will discuss her family and marital history, how her life changed when she met Chad Daybell, and the concerning events surrounding her children’s disappearances.  You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 354 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing well. How about yourself? I'm doing very well. Good. Had my girls come home from college this past weekend. So that was awesome. It's always a good time. Yeah, got to spend the whole weekend with them and they were a little sick, but we still, you know, had fun. Just being together. Like old times. You all had your, uh, little flannel pajamas on and your little hoodies. Yeah, well, I had the onesie.

The onesie? With the footies, yeah. Yeah, I know you like your onesie thing. Exactly. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Sarah Navarro. Hey, Sarah. Mamas 25.

Hey, mamas. Mary Ann Champagne. Hey, Marianne. Matthew Simmons. Hey, what's going on, Matthew? Vicki Briggs. Well, what's up, Vicki? Madison Monroe.

Hey, there's Madison. Lily Desry Thomas. Well, thank you, Lily. Danielle Fran. What's up, Danielle? Amber Adcock. Hey, Amber. Donald Davis.

Appreciate that. Donald. Andrea Krimmins jumped out at our highest level. That's amazing. Thank you, Andrea. We had Amber Sellers jump out of our highest level. Man, I'm loving that. Thank you, Amber.

And Rachel Young jumped out of our highest level. Good, Rachel. Yeah. We also had Jenny Maney. What's going on, Jenny? KM. Well, that's Casey Musgrove or Musgrave, how you want to pronounce that country singer's name? Okay.

Right. On the TQ? On the T. On the QT. On the QT. Yeah. I said that wrong. And Dinah.

What's going on, Dinah? Then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Sam Gosling. What's up, Sam? Who you said was probably whose brother? Ryan's brother. We also had a couple of great PayPal donations from David Rand. What's up, David? And Ashley Sheeler.

Well, appreciate that, Ashley. Yeah. Thanks to everyone who chooses to support the show. Gibbs, right now we have an episode out on true crime all of the time unsolved where we're talking about the 2018 disappearance of 16 year old Kaylee Gousset. That's a very good case. There's a lot of controversy going on social media with it. And there is a very lengthy recording between Kaylee and her stepmom.

That's very important to the case. All right. Well, we'll get into all the details. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am ready. We are talking about Lori Valo Daybell. This is a case that a lot of people are interested in. A lot of people have asked us if we would cover it.

Lori has been called the doomsday mom or the cult mom. She was recently convicted of killing her 16 year old daughter, her seven year old son, and conspiring to kill her husband's first wife. So real POS? Yeah. I mean, you know, obviously when we get into the details and many people may have seen the Netflix documentary, it's such a strange case though because, you know, for many, many years, Lori appeared to be, you know, this loving mother, but she changed in 2018 when she met

doomsday author Chad Daybilt. And that's when she began to believe in light and dark spirits, zombies, and prophecies from the Bible. So in part one of the Lori Vallow, Daybell episodes, we'll discuss her family and marital history, how her life changed when she met Chad Daybell and the concerning events surrounding her children's disappearances. Lori Valo Debe was born on June 26th, 1973 in San Bernardino, California. Her maiden name was Lori Cox. And her birthday is so close to mine that it is freaking scary.

Too close. Too close. Her parents are Janice and Barry Cox. Lori's siblings are Adam Cox, Alex Cox, Summer Cox, and Stacey Cox. Stacey died unexpectedly. in 1998 when she was just 31 years old. Her cause of death is undetermined. According to People magazine, Stacey's daughter, Melanie, is often mentioned in articles

about Lori because of criminal allegations against the two women, which we'll discuss later on. In 1992, 19-year-old Lori married her first husband, Nelson Yains, but they divorced soon after and had no children. in 1995, Lori married William La Jolla. They had a son named Colby and divorced in 1996. In 2001, Lori married Joseph Ryan. They had a daughter named Tiley and divorced in 2004.

That year, Lori won $17,000 on Wheel of Fortune and competed in the Mrs. Texas page. That's a lot of marriages. Yeah. I mean, a lot of people get married multiple times. And you and I have talked about this before. Some people get married and it's great. It sticks. But that doesn't happen for everyone.

No. Now, you could look at this and say, that's a lot of marriages in that span of time. Sure. Yeah. They're not lasting very long. Is there something to that or not? I think my aunt was married like five times.

So it happens. It does happen. But I want to talk about this year. So she wins money on Wheel of Fortune and then competes in the Mrs. Texas page. Things sound like are going well for her. Well, in that arena, they're not going well in her love life. No. So during this pageant, she was asked, what makes you tick? And according to People magazine, she answered, being a good mom is very important to me, and a good wife and a good worker. And being all those things is not easy. So I'm basically a ticking time bomb. Wow. Isn't that strange how something you said back then? Later on manifests itself to be true. But, you know, let's break down what she said. Being a good mom, a good wife and a good worker, those are important to a lot of people. Sure. And it's absolutely true that,

being all of those things at the same time is not easy. You know, I watch my wife day in and day out. And, you know, even though the kids are now in college, still everything that she's able to juggle. Amazes me.

Yeah. She is on top of everything. She's no longer listening. You can tell the truth now. Okay. No. She did peek her head down. Now,

she, you know, she just does an amazing job. but it takes a toll. Yeah, it has to take a toll. You know, it's the reason, part of the reason why she goes to bed so early, she's freaking tired. Yeah, I bet.

And even though I, you know, I try to help out as much as I can, she just takes a lot of it on herself. So if you're listening, love you, honey. But you're right. This kind of phrase ticking time bomb may not have meant much at that point in time. Obviously, it's going to mean a lot more. or once we find out what Lori does. Exactly.

In 2006, Lori married Charles Valo, an investment advisor. Lori and Charles were married for over a decade. She was his second wife, and he had adult children. Their friends said they seemed happy together. So we mentioned that her previous marriages didn't last long.

She was with Charles for over a decade. That's a long time. So whatever they had going seemed as though it was working and friends said that they seemed happy. Yeah, but friends sometimes when you see the outside of that relationship. Oh, absolutely. You know that. Absolutely.

They raised highly together. And in 2014, they moved to Kauai, where they owned a small business. That year, they adopted J.J. Valo, the grandson of Charles's sister, Kay Woodcock. April Raymond, Lori's friend told CBS that Lori was a patient. an ideal mother for JJ because he had autism. Tiley also loved JJ and the two had a very close bond. She's sometimes jokingly referred to him as her child. And you and I have talked a lot about autism or children with autism and how demanding

that can be on everyone else in the family, parents especially. I think we even had a lot of listener feedback on this. We did, saying just how tough it can be. April Raymond said about Lori and Charles's marriage, I had never seen two people married that were what I perceived as genuinely happy with one another. Now, that's a hell of a statement. That is. If you think about how many married couples you know and you are singling them out as the couple

of all the couples you know that seemed to be the most genuinely happy. It's a big statement. But she also says what I perceived. And that's going back to your statement. Sure. Right? You're seeing what they want you to see. You don't get to see behind locked doors.

No. Nobody does except people in the family. In 2017, Lori's relationship with her kids started. to change. This occurred after they moved from Hawaii to Arizona. It was said that Lori started paying less attention to her children and she and Charles experienced marital problem. Lori began reading books written by doomsday author Chad Daybell, who lived near Rexburg, Idaho. Chad ran a small publishing company and appeared on different podcasts. According to CBS, Chad wrote fictional books about the end of the world, which were based loosely on Mormon religious theology.

In total, Chad wrote 25 books that contained themes about the end times, near death experiences, communicating with people on the other side, and his experience as a grave digger. Okay. All right. He's got a lot going on. Yeah. He had some unique spiritual beliefs, like the belief that he could. could receive visions from beyond the veil. This was reported by CBS. Chad Daybell was born in Utah in in 1968. According to Inside Edition, Chad wrote on his website that when he was young, his grandfather

told him a story about meeting a messenger from heaven. At a temple, Chad wrote that the experience impacted him because he realized regular church members could receive visits from messengers. Angels is what I think messengers mean. Yeah, I think you can read into it a number of different ways, probably. But what I want to talk about is the influence that, you know, a grandmother, a grandfather can have on a young kid. You know, my grandfathers and my, my grandmothers for that matter, had a tremendous impact on me.

Yeah. All the way around on my character, you know, what I thought was funny. had one grandfather who was really funny. And then I had another one who was a pretty stern disciplinarian. Yeah. So I kind of learned some of, you know, both of their traits. I just don't think you can underestimate the impact that mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers have on kids. Chad survived two near death experiences. His first near death experience occurred while cliff jumping. at the age of 17. He claimed he crossed into another dimension and saw another world.

Is that where that old saying, I'm going to knock you into another world comes from? You ever hear that? I don't think I have, but I don't hang around with some of the same people that you do. So I don't exactly know everything that you're into. You know, I know some people believe in this type of stuff. Some people don't.

You know, for me, it's always hard to believe in things that I've never experienced. Yeah. Now, I've never experienced ghosts or, you know, anything paranormal or anything like that. But I have family members who I trust who have stories that they wholeheartedly believe in. You have no reason to doubt them. I don't have any reason to doubt them. I've just never, you know, experienced it myself.

I've also never experienced crossing into another dimension and seeing another world. It's very special when it happens. In his early 20s, Chad was hit by a wave at a California beach and almost drowned. He said he visited with the spirit of his grandfather who showed him his future. Chad wrote in third person as quoted by Inside Edition. This accident caused his veil that separates mortal life. from the spirit world to stay partially open. So he often feels as if he has a foot in both worlds. Now, to me, this is a little different because you, you do hear a lot of stories about people who

were either dead for a period of time and were brought back to life or who had what you would call near death experiences, seeing all kinds of different things. Oh, yeah. Or having, you know, different types of experiences. But what he's saying is that this changed him in a way so that, you know, even after it was over, he was kind of able to live in both of these worlds. Yeah. Or go in and out of these worlds. Yeah, to foot in both places.

That's what he said. Chad met his wife Tammy at Brigham Young University in Utah. They got married in March 1990 at an LDS temple and they had five children together. Tammy worked as a secretary for the Parks Department and Chad continued studying. He graduated from BYU in 1992. After Chad graduated, Tammy started working for a local elementary school. Chad focused on his writing career, but also worked as a cemetery caretaker and grave dig. Chad wrote a book about his work titled One Foot in the Grave, the strange but true adventures of a cemetery sexton where he claimed he had seen ghosts.

Well, if you're going to see some ghosts, probably going to find them at the cemetery. Seems like a good place. Yeah, if you want to look for him, go there. To see some. In 2004, Chad and Tammy founded the Sprit Creek Creek Book Company, their small publishing company. Chad appeared at conferences and on podcasts to talk about his spiritual beliefs and his visions of an apocalypse. in the United States before the second coming of Christ. According to Inside Edition,

Chad wrote in his book series, Times of Turmoil, that there would be an earthquake in Salt Lake City. And a convoy of United Nations peacekeepers is making its way to Utah to assist in the full invasion of the United States by the coalition forces, which will spark World War III.

So we kind of mentioned him as, being a doomsday author. Right. And I think a lot of his work was exactly that kind of end of times. You know, the worst is going to happen. And here's how it will happen. Now it was described as fictional,

which you would have to categorize it as fictional. Talking about a downer though. Hey, uh, want to go to the chads tonight? No, not really. He's just going to talk.

about all that doomsday stuff. How the world's going to end. Yeah. Yeah. But even in saying that it's fictional, it's almost like to him, it wasn't because he's believing it, right? He's saying he's having these visions of the apocalypse. The Daybell family moved to Idaho in 2014 after they went on a family vacation.

And the spirit told Chad they should. moved there. They settled in the city of Rexburg in 2015. So, you know, if nothing else, you'd have to say, this is a very interesting guy. He's got a lot of stuff going on. Yeah, pretty active. Grave digger, writer. Living in two dimensions. Living in two different worlds, having visions of, you know, the end of the world in different scenarios. A lot of responsibility to. to take it is and putting you know pin to paper to to write books about it is it pin the paper or is it keyboard to screen now today it's probably more keyboard to screen you're you're right i still like the phrase pen to i do i like it too so we've talked about Lori now we've talked about Chad

but how do they get together how do they meet and laurie and chad met in person in october 2018 at a religious conference in St. George, Utah. Lori's friend Melanie Gibb told East Idaho news that during their first meeting, Chad told Lori they were married in their past lives. That's a pretty good pickup line. Well, it seems as though it may have worked. Hey, you know, we used to be married back in the day. The two started communicating with each other with secret phones. And Chad told Lori that he created a portal in her closet so they could interact spiritually, according to Melanie Gibb. So we understand.

We got two very religious people deciding to use burner phones to have an inappropriate relationship. And they're going to have a certain portal in her closet that she can go into so that they can take their relationship to another level. Spiritually. Spiritually. Yeah. Okay. So we'll make sure I's on board.

Yeah. You know, when I talk about there's some things I don't believe in, you know, I'm really starting to lose it here. Yeah. You know, my belief in, and in a lot of this stuff is, is not high. If anything, the picture I'm getting is of a kind of a quasi con man. Oh, for sure. You know, we were married in a past.

life. Yeah. You know, I can create this portal so that we can interact in your closet. Okay. According to Fox 10, Chad believes that he can judge light and dark spirits. And I believe I can too. Yeah. Mm-hmm. When it comes to alcohol. Oh. There's light and dark spirits and dark. Yeah. I prefer the light spirits. Yeah. Over the dark. I do too. You know. But Lori asked Chad to judge her family members. Lori received an email from Chad. on October 30th, 2018. Part of the email stated, Here are the family history documents you requested.

Attached was a rubric on dark and light spirits. Another attachment listed Lori's family tree with rating. Chad rated Tiley as a 4.1D, meaning dark, and JJ as a 4.2L, meaning light. According to People Magazine, Chad wrote, twos and threes are fluid. and can change sides during earth life.

4.1 and above have made covenants to their side. They rarely switch side. So what does that mean? Tiley is a dark spirit? And set. And we'll never change. JJ is a light spirit and will never change. Lori's husband Charles was rated a 3L.

Chad rated Tiley's father, Joseph Ryan, who died of a heart attack in April, 2018 as dark and sealed away. So not sure how he's coming up with these ratings. Besides pulling it out of his ass. Yeah. And that could very well be. Because I don't know if he had met these people. I can't imagine he had met her husband for sure. I don't even know where he gets the ratings from, let alone rating individuals. On December 5th, 2018, Lori and Chad appeared on a podcast called Time to Warrior Up, which has since been deleted, where they talked about their beliefs on

the end times. The podcast was promoted by an entity called Preparing a people. Preparing a people is run by a multimedia company that hosts lectures and videos meant to help people prepare for the second coming of Christ. Doesn't sound grammarily correct. That sentence was not grammatically correct but i i think we all know what you meant but i just kind of want to back up for a minute right she meets this guy he for the lack of a better term gibbs what schmooses her yeah maybe she becomes infatuated with him and his ideas to the point like you said they're using burner phones all the way up to now they're appearing on a podcast together talking about the end of time I definitely think he found a way to play into her desire maybe, you know, her fact that she liked the subject matter that he was a host of and an author of.

And I think she found it fascinating now. He's interacting directly with her. And it was probably a turn on for her. I would say you're probably right. According to Inside Edition, Michael and Nancy James, the owner's preparing a people wrote in December 2019 that they were, were shocked and deeply disturbed by the murder investigation, the company website has been taken down. Now, we haven't talked about the murders yet. No.

Obviously, we're going to get into those. But this is something that, you know, we don't often talk about. We talk about victims a lot. We talk about the family members of victims and even the family members of perpetrators. Yeah. But what about people who, let's say, were involved with. with some of these individuals, even on like the periphery, they're affected as well. Oh, for sure. Yeah, you can definitely have an impact. And this one did.

Lori was described as being part of a cult-like or radical religious group. Before this, she had followed the mainstream beliefs of the LDS church. Lori and Chad would eventually become leaders of this informal religious group sharing their beliefs and trying to influence others. So I think that's where, you know, the doomsday cult, cult mom, you know, all these names that were kind of given to her by the press come about. Lori's friend Melanie Gipp later told CBS that she heard Lori in chat discussing zombies and people whose souls were replaced by dark spirits. Do you believe in zombies? I do not. I do not either.

I mean, it's good TV. Oh, I love like the Walking Dead. Yeah. But I've never seen a zombie. Therefore, it's hard for me to believe they exist. But if I ever do see one, I know how to take care of it. Assuming that the TV shows and movies are correct. Yeah, exactly.

Same with vampires and werewolves. Yeah, I'm set, man. All that. I've got all that stuff in a box ready to go. The fact that you bring it with you to the studio seems strange. You never know. It could be at any moment. that zombies wake up and rise to the surface.

And somehow come down in here into the studio. And I gotta find a way to get out. You won't let me stay. So I know I gotta get out, get to my truck, get back to my place, and hunker down. Melanie heard Lori refer to Tiley as a zombie. At some point, Lori also referred to JJ as a zombie and said,

she and Chad were on a mission to eradicate zombies before the second coming. Wow, that's such a big statement and scary, right? Yeah, because now we're getting into, you know, foreshadowing what's, you know, to come. You're saying you've got to get rid of the zombies and you're saying your kids are zombies. Are you saying you need to get rid of your kids? Yeah, I think so. One affidavit states per people magazine, the term zombie refers to an individual whose mortal spirit has left their body and that their body is,

now the host of another spirit. The new spirit and a zombie is always considered a dark spirit. Based on what research? I don't know. Oh, okay. I don't know. So this is a different zombie than what we're thinking of

as like on the walking dead. Yeah. This person would appear normal. Oh, human. Yeah. But in, in their eyes, their mortal spirit has been replaced with a dark spirit. Well, then I do know some zombies. Oh, okay.

These individuals. Lori and Chad? Yeah. Okay. I kind of see where you're going. Additionally, Lori and Chad believe their spouses would die in car accidents, according to Melanie Gibb. That's a little freaky, you know,

because it sounds like you're setting it up that one day your spouses would die in a car accident. Well, how do you have a belief that your spouse, not your spouse, both spouses are going to die in a car accident, unless you're planning on setting that into motion? Yeah. While you were on your secret phone and your little cubby in your closet, you're probably like, hey, how do we get rid of them? Let's make sure they both have car accidents. By early 2019, Charles was extremely worried about Lori. although a date is not listed, CBS reported that Lori disappeared at the beginning of 2019, leaving Charles with the kids.

She was gone for about two months and no one knew where she was. It's believed that she met with Chad Daybell during this time. Maybe she went off to that other world. Well, after this, Lori began telling Charles that she thought she was chosen and that she could talk to dead people. No, only that kid on that one show with Bruce Willis can do that. Now you've given it away for those who haven't seen it. I hope they've seen it by now.

It's like 20 years, 30 years old. I think that kid probably has grandkids now. But let's just dissect this, right? Your wife of 10 years plus has all of a sudden completely changed. Yeah. Is disappearing for months at a time, not telling you where she's going. and then when she comes back, she says that she's chosen and that she can talk to dead people. Definitely an issue with the relationship at that point.

Probably need to sit down and talk about a few things without all the dead people around. So I think he was right to be extremely worried, right? Something very strange is going on. Lori and Chad spent a lot of time talking about their spiritual beliefs. They thought they would play a leading role in the end times. Specifically, they thought they thought they'd be a leading role in the end times. Specifically, they thought they were going to be the leaders of the 144,000, a group of people chosen by God that is referenced in the biblical book of Revelation. I think the fact that they thought they were going to be chosen means that they probably wouldn't have been chosen.

What the hell does that mean? Just go with it, man. Okay. I'm just going to go past it and we're going to move on. Charles reported that Lori told him, as quoted by CBS, if you get in my way, I will murder you. I will murder you. You know what I would have said? I'll still be around talking to you because you can hear from the dead.

Because you can talk to dead. Good luck. So, I mean, I think you go from extremely worried to whatever is past, extremely worried. And again, she's like really religious, so, but she's okay with murder. Well, it's the end times. You got to do what you have to do. You got to do. I think in her mind.

And also, I think she's gotten away from kind of the mainstream LDS teachings. Oh, for sure. Now she's into more of cult, end of times, doomsday stuff. Does she say like, I will murder you or like, I will murder you? I don't know in what voice she said it. Either way, it would be a little scary. Oh, for sure. Sure. Yeah. To hear your wife say this to you, especially after all of the changes that you've witnessed.

Yeah, I think you're going to probably believe her. Lori told her friend April that she had lived several lives and felt as though she had supernatural powers. She told April that Charles was already dead and that he had a demon inside him. Okay. I've had some strange conversations with friends in the past, but nothing that has risen to the level. I don't even know what I would say. And this is so weird. I mean, I know, I've never had a demon inside me. Maybe that, that taco night. Yeah. Yeah, that was bad. That was bad. I don't know what that was, but it's probably as close as a demon as you've had. Yeah. Lori also tried to recruit April to join her group of chosen people, but she was told she would have to leave her children behind. And April, of course, declined this offer. That was probably a very quick, decline? Yes. Leave my kids behind? No, no thank you. You know, a rational person when you give them

this choice, they are going to say no because they're not thinking the same way that you're thinking that the end of times is coming. So all this other stuff doesn't mean anything. They think, I've got kids. I want to be with them. Yeah. I want to be here, protect my kids from people like you. At the end of January, Charles asked Lori to get mental health treatment. She voluntarily checked into a mental health facility and was later cleared for discharge. In February 2019, Charles filed for divorce and expressed that he feared for his and the kids' safety. I don't know how he couldn't have to. Right?

After everything she said, wouldn't you? Yeah, I'll murder you. You've got a demon. The kids are demons. I don't know what all. And there should be no zombies left on earth. Yeah, I don't know what all she said to him at this point. But he claimed that Lori viewed herself as a God and that she had threatened to kill him.

According to divorce records obtained by Fox 10, Charles said that Lori believed she was receiving spiritual revelations and visions to help her gather and prepare those chosen to live in the new Jerusalem after the Great War as prophesized in the book of revelations. And Lori believed the second coming would happen in July 2020, per the divorce records. She no longer wanted to be around her family so that she could focus on a more important mission. And I do think this is kind of common, right? In some of these people or groups or organizations that believe that the end of the world is coming. Yeah, they always have a end date.

A very specific date. at least a month and a year. And what happens when that month, date, year comes and goes and nothing happens? Well, for them, a lot of times it conveniently slides to another date. It does. What we met was, well, we've now been given new information or better information, and it's X amount of years down the road. I think at the very least gives, what you can see here is, you know,

how far she has kind of swung. Well, big time swing, right? And in a relatively short amount of time. Because at the same time, she's saying this, she's making the decision not to be around her family anymore. Yeah, because there's no need, right? She has to prepare for this big happening. Yeah.

Charles and Lori began living separately after he filed for divorce. She moved to a house in Chandler, Arizona, with the children. On the morning of July 11, 2019, Charles went to Lori's rental home to pick JJ up for school. He arrived at 7.40 a.m. and was fatally shot by Lori's brother, Alex Cox. Sources report that Alex and Lori had a close relationship, and he was very protective of her. For example, in 2007, he attacked her third husband with a taser and was sentenced to 90 days in jail. CBS reporter Morgan Lowe wrote that Lori viewed Alex as a destroyer who took care of problems. So not a demon, a destroyer.

And a problem solver. Yeah. And in this case, who's the problem? Charles. Charles. So getting back to the shooting, Alex called 911 at 8.36 a.m. He claimed he shot Charles in self-defense. Alex explained that he and Charles got into a fight over Lori.

During the fight, Tiley allegedly came out with a bat to try to protect her mother. Charles took the bat from her and hit Alex in the back of the head. So he retrieved a gun from his room and shot Charles twice in the chest. Tiley and Lori left the house to take J.J. to school. When they returned, they seemed nonchalant, according to CBS. Nonchalant. Yeah. Like, yeah, what's the problem here?

Tyler and Lori told the police they heard the shooting but didn't see it. Lori said she walked past Charles and went outside to get JJ who was waiting in the car. She and Tyler then took him to school. Like walked past him dead? Yeah. That's the way I'm taking it because it was nonchalant. Yeah. Lori Alex and Tyler were all questioned but were released.

On July 22nd, 2019, Lori returned JJ's below. loved service dog to his trainer for unspecified reason. And to me, that in and of itself seems so strange. Obviously, he had a service dog for a reason. And for her to give it up, what does that mean? Now, we know ultimately what it means, but in the moment, doesn't, you know, somebody question that or don't you think it's important for him to have this service dog that he needs? In late August, early September of that year, Lori moved to Raxburg, Idaho, where Chad and his family lived. Alex moved into the same townhome complex as Lori. On September 3rd, Lori enrolled JJ at an elementary school in Raxburg.

Tiley was never officially enrolled in any schools in Idaho, but Lori would tell the police that she was attending BYU, Idaho. Tiley was last seen alive on September 8th, 2019. at the entrance to Yellowstone National Park. She went to the park with Lori, JJ, and Alex. Investigators later found pictures on Lori's eye cloud that showed them at the park. That very same day, Chad signed an application

to increase Tammy Daybell's life insurance to the maximum amount. But why? If you're a profit or whatever you think you are, will all your needs be met? But he already had the vision that she was going to die in a car accident. Oh, yeah. But he just wants to make sure you can capitalize on that with the max amount of money.

But Charles was supposed to die in a car accident as well. Yeah, that didn't go well. And we know that didn't happen. On September 9th, record showed that Alex Cox's cell phone was on Chad Daybell's property in an area where human remains were later found. Okay, never good. 14 minutes after Alex's phone left the property, Chad texted his wife. Tammy. As reported by CBS, I spotted a big raccoon along the fence. I hurried and got my gun,

and he was still walking along. I got close enough that one shot did the trick. He is now in our pet cemetery. A neighbor's doorbell camera captured footage of JJ playing in his yard on September 17th on the 22nd. Melanie Gibb and her boyfriend David Warwick were visiting Lori and Rexberg. David saw Alex carrying JJ into the apartment that night. When David asked to see JJ the next morning, Lori told him JJ was being a zombie and Alex had to take him away, according to CBS. Well, in most cases, people would say, oh, the kids being a zombie. Oh, he's just doesn't want to wake up. He's tired being grumpy. He's a zombie. Yeah, I don't know if these people knew what zombie really meant to Lori and Chad. I don't know.

Investigators later discovered that Alex's cell phone data showed that he returned to Chad Daybell's property for 17 minutes on September 23rd. On the 24th, Lori contacted JJ's school and told the staff she was going to homeschool him. And obviously, you know, this cell phone data, of Alex's is going to play big, right, into the story. Why is he at Chad Daybell's property on these very specific days? The next week, Lori purchased an inexpensive ring on Amazon and online shopped for a wedding dress. I wonder why she wants a wedding dress in a ring because the man that she says she's in love with

is married. Yeah, you would think that would be a hen. Right? To marrying Chad Debo. On October 1st, Lori rented a storage unit in Rexburg. Surveillance video shows her in a man, believed to be Alex, visiting the unit at least nine times in October and once in November. On October 2nd, someone shot at Brandon Boudreau, the ex-husband of Lori's niece, Melanie Boudreau, as he was pulling into his driveway. a bullet hit his driver's side window. The shooter was driving a Jeep registered to Charles Valo.

The police suspect that Alex Cox was the shooter. So, I mean, Alex Cox is in the middle of everything. It sounds like he's the hitman for the group. Well, let's go back to Lori saying he was the destroyer. And it sounds as though he was. Now, the question is going to be, why did he do the things that he did? So it's having a weak mind as we move forward. Brandon told Arizona Central that Melanie spent time with Lori's religious group and that this precipitated their divorce.

Brandon and Melanie got into a custody battle over their children. Melanie moved to Idaho without the kids soon after Lori, where she joined a religious Cole led by Chad according to Fox 10. So she's believing what Lori and Chad are telling her. But it sounds like she bought in, right, to what they were selling. But let's go back to someone shooting at her ex-husband. She's now part of the group. They're in a custody battle and someone tries to shoot and kill Brandon.

That sounds very much like what possibly happened to Charles. Yeah. It's almost like if you get in the way of what we're trying to do or you mess with the member of our group, we will kill you. Yeah. And Lori actually said that to Charles. If you get in my way, I'll kill you.

I'll kill you. I'll murder you. A month after the shooting, Melanie was arrested for trespassing on Brandon's parents' property and trying to take the children with her. This was the second time. She had trespassed in two days. Alex Cox drove her to the house. bailed her out after she was arrested.

On October 9th, 2019, Tammy Daybell called the police to report that she was shot at by someone using a defective paintball marker. The man approached her in the driveway, wearing a ski mask, and holding a paintball gun. He left when she called out for chat. Tammy posted about the incident on Facebook saying she had no idea who they were or why they would attack her. Well, coward right away. If you're wearing a mask, I mean, what are you afraid of? Well, I assume you're afraid of being identified, but my first thought is, what are you planning to do with this paintball gun? Yeah. Have you ever been shot with a paintball gun? Yeah, it stinks. It stings,

but it's not going to kill you. No. Maybe they were paintballs were filled with some magical potion. Acid, so yeah. Holy water, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. On October 19th, Tammy Daybell died suddenly in her sleep. Chad said that Tammy woke up coughing around midnight. She vomited in the bathroom, then went back to bed. She fell out of bed around 5.40 a.m. He pulled on the covers, which he said could have caused her to fall. You ever done that?

Pulled on the covers. So hard that you flipped your bedmate onto the floor? Not accidentally. Oh, I've never done that. I'm not even sure how you do that. The day bell children told 48 hours that they not chat declined an autopsy because the coroner told them it appeared Tammy died of natural causes. They believed it was because she was in poor health before she died. Chad told the coroner that she had previously fainted and had convulsion.

Well, maybe there was something in those paintball capsules, some type of poison. that when it interacted with her skin, cause something. We don't know. We don't know. That's a possibility. We don't even know if she was hit. It just said she was shot at. However, Tammy's father visited her two weeks before she died and said she seemed healthy.

But Chad told him Tammy went to sleep with a terrible call. Tammy was buried in Utah on October 22nd. Julie Rowe, who published books with Chad's company and was a friend of his, told Inside Edition in 2020 that Chad called her three weeks before Tammy died, even though they'd had a falling out. Chad told her, my plan can't move forward until Tammy's dead. Roe said he was referring to his life plan. Sounds like a little premeditated murder.

Yeah. Well, I mean, if you're going to tell somebody that your plan can't move forward until your wife is dead. and then three weeks later she dies, hard to believe that she died from natural causes. But, you know, I'm sure it had to be difficult for Chad losing his wife. Probably going to need to mourn for a while. You would think. Yeah.

You would think. But then just a couple of weeks after Tammy died on November 5th, 2019, Lori and Chad got married in Hawaii. Now, I just want you to take a minute and put. put yourself in the shoes of Tammy's father. He already said he visited a couple of weeks before she died. She seemed healthy. Now she all of a sudden dies. Yeah. And less than a month later, Chad is married to another woman. I think you know what I would do. Yeah, I know what you would do. But how could you not view that in a bad light? There's only one way to view it. Yes. And I think if your law enforcement,

you know, you're viewing, you have to view it the same way. Lori and Chad told Chad's parents that Lori was an empty nester, which was not true. Kind of a strange thing to say, knowing that she had two kids. Unless there's already a plan. Right. To actually be an empty nester. And the one thing you'd have to say is there's a lot of foreshadowing in this story. I mean, their life plan.

He called it that. I'll call it that. There's a lot of moving parts to it. And it seems like they kind of tip their cap. Yeah. To what they were planning on doing to a number of different people. Which tells me they really believed their story, right? They really believed what they were doing was real.

Was the right thing to do and that there would be no repercussions. Yeah. It kind of seems that way. How could they? They were the chosen ones. Well, and if the world is ending and you're the leader of however many people is left, who is going to be there to hold you accountable? You're the leader.

That's right. You're leading that 144,000 member group. By this point, JJ's grandparents, Kay and Larry Woodcock, were concerned about JJ's well-being. Every time they called Lori, she made up a story about where he was. On November 26th, Kay and Larry, requested a welfare check at the Rexburg townhome. The Rexburg police went to the home that day in search of JJ.

Lori told them he was staying in Arizona with her friend Melanie Giff. When the local police in Arizona questioned her, she covered for Lori. But later asked her why she wanted her to lie and recorded the conversation. According to People magazine, in July 2020, Lori allegedly told Melanie Giff, that she convinced Kay Woodcock to take JJ in because she had cancer. She said she gave JJ to her at an airport. You know, if you are the chosen one and what you're doing is the right thing to do, why do you need to lie about everything?

Why don't just tell people what you did? Yeah, it's kind of strange, isn't it? It's almost as if they believed there were no repercussions, but they were still lying and covering up as though. they didn't want to get in trouble. Yeah. They were just living in some sick fantasy world, what they were doing. When Chad Daybell was questioned, he made it seem like he didn't know Lori that well. He didn't mention that they had been married for about three weeks. I don't really know her. Well, now it's time to C.Y.A. While investigators were looking for JJ, they realized

timely was also missing. On November 27, the Rexburg police obtained a warrant for Lori and Chad's home in three apartments belonging to Lori, Alex, and Melanie. They found no signs of the children. On December 1st, Lori and Chad flew to Hawaii because that's what you do. When your kids are missing and you're being questioned by police, you take a vacation to Hawaii. Yeah, let's go to Hawaii. The police figure this out. On December 6th, Melanie Gibb called the police and recanted her statement saying that

JJ was not with her. And I have to imagine that the whole thing was probably eating at her for, you know, that period of time. Something's not making sense. Yeah. Why would she ask me to lie? I think I've done the wrong thing. I better come forward now. And to her credit, she did.

Yeah. As we talked about earlier, Lori had a storage unit in Rexberg. Inside the unit, she kept the kids' bikes and toys, but she took their birth certificates, Tyley's bank card and Tyler's cell phone with her to Hawaii. On December 11, 2019, Tammy Daybell's death was declared suspicious by the Fremont County Sheriff's office. Her body was exhumed and an autopsy was performed. The very next day, on the 12th, Alex Cox died at his home in Gilbert, Arizona.

His stepson called 911 and reported that he was in the bathroom unconscious, and breathing heavily. It was later reported that he died of a pulmonary embolism, and it's not believed that there was any foul play in his sudden death. Or maybe it was just paybacks a bitch. Well, obviously we're going to talk about what role Alex Cox played in all of this. Doesn't it seem strange, given the circumstances, the time frame that this guy suddenly died?

Yeah, very strange. It's as strange as how Tammy died. On December 20th, the Raxburg Police Department announced that JJ and Tiley were missing and that their disappearances could be linked to Tammy Daybell's death. And the next day, Lori and Chad were named persons of interest in the children's disappearance. So it does seem like it took some time, you know, months. But the police finally, you know, put it together. something's not right here. Now, part of that is because some people lied, some people covered up.

But I think once they got that call from Melanie Gibb, everything kind of moved very quickly from there. Sure. Yeah. Something's wrong here. The kids are missing. We got to find these kids. Not to mention, uh, Lori and Chad had, you know, jetted off to Hawaii.

Yeah. On December 30th, the police in Rexburg, Idaho announced that Tiley Ryan and J.J. Valo were still missing, despite weeks of searching, they added that they believed Lori knew what happened to her kids and was withholding information. Authorities launched a national search for the children. As news spread around the country, Lori became one of the most hated people in the U.S.

And thousands of people discussed the case online. Lori and Chad were still in Hawaii. But it soon got to a point where they were confronted by investigators or journalists every time they left the house. I mean, just look at the optics of this situation. Sure. If you didn't have anything to do with the disappearance of your children, would you be in Hawaii when people back in Idaho are searching for them?

No. No, you wouldn't be. It looks terrible. Yeah. How could people not start to draw the conclusion that you either had something to do with their disappearance, or at the very least, you know what happened. Yeah, you're not telling anybody. On January 3rd, 2020, the police searched Chad's home in Salem, Idaho.

They took computers, cell phones, journals, documents, and medications. The police discovered a bottle of JJ's prescription medication with 17 pills remaining. It was last filled months before he went missing. That's a red flag, right? I think it's a huge red flag. And this was a kid who needed that medication. So the fact that he hadn't been taking it, the fact that it hadn't been filled in a month,

and there was still 17 pills left, meant that he wasn't taking it for a reason. Yeah. And not too hard to make the leap to why that reason is. And let's don't forget, she gave back his service talk, which we know he needed. it makes what's happening here look even worse.

On January 25th, 2020, Loy was ordered to produce the children to Idaho authorities by January 30th, but she ignored the order. On February 20th, Lori was arrested on an open warrant. She was then charged with resisting or obstructing officers, criminal solicitation to commit a crime, contempt of court, and two felony counts of desertion and non-support.

of dependent children. Why not just say, don't you know, we are the chosen to, to lead the army of 144,000 people, do I need to say anything more if you believe it so much? Well, she might have believed it, but I don't think law enforcement was going to believe that. And, you know, she was charged with a bunch of stuff. None of it's great, but nowhere in there did you hear murder? No, right? Because they don't know what happened to these children. And both Lori and Chad refused to tell the police where the kids were.

Lori's lawyer said she didn't produce the children because she didn't want them to go into foster care. She's so concerned for their well-being. Yeah. In February 2020, Arizona Central reported that Brandon, who drove filed divorce documents claiming that his ex-wife, Melan, Lori's niece knew where the children were and was being investigated in connection to their disappearance. Melanie's attorneys released a statement denying that she knew where the children were or that she was involved in their disappearance. Part of the court documents stated, mother is involved in a cult where numerous members, adults and children alike,

have been being killed off like flies. Okay. Wow. That's scary. It is scary. Brandon also claimed that Melanie told her new husband, Ian Polowski. Sometimes children are full of light. And then just like that, they go dark. And Ian did relay this information to the police. The documents claim that Polowski told the police that Melanie told him she conspired with Alex Cox to kill Brandon.

Brandon already believed that Melanie tried to kill him. to cash in on a policy to help support the cult that she is believed to be a part of. So there is a lot going on in this case. Right. I mean, it's part of the reason why this had to be a two-parter. There's a lot of people involved. Yeah.

There's a lot of moving pieces on March 5th, 2020. Lori was extradited from Hawaii to Rexburg in early March of that year. Chad gave a brief statement to ABC. news as he was traveling from Hawaii to Idaho saying the kids are safe. Well, what else is he going to say? Not the truth. No. A few months after Lori was arrested, her mother, Janice Cox and her sister, Summer Shifflett,

spoke with 48 hours. Janice said that Lori would never harm her children. And I know her. And what mother would ever believe that her daughter would voluntarily harm her kids, the grandkids. Yeah. No mother wants to believe that. No.

No. And maybe she's just remembering the Lori she knew. Not this new Lori. Well, you know, by all accounts, there was a big change in Lori Valo. I don't think at this point in time, she was the same person who her family knew. Yeah. Raised. grew up with. Summer and Janice provided explanations for many of the lingering questions in the

case. For example, they said that JJ wasn't that attached to his service dog and claimed that Lori took Tiley's phone to Hawaii with her because she didn't want anyone to track her. Why not just leave the phone in the storage unit where it was? No one's going to track her. They're just going to see if the phone's even on. Or just turn the phone off. Yeah, just turn the phone off. take out the SIM card. And you're going to tell me that this kid, JJ, was not attached to that service dog? Yeah, I find that hard to believe. I find it very hard to believe.

Lori received threats after Charles died. She wanted to go somewhere safe and didn't want to tell anyone because she believed she was being followed. She also believed the threats were coming from people who wanted revenge for Charles's death. Charles's family denied ever making threats towards Lori. Lori had moved to Idaho to protect herself and the kids, which led Summer and Janice to believe she was hiding the kids for their protection. They were concerned when Lori traveled to Hawaii without them, but they didn't think anything bad had happened.

And I get that, they don't want to believe. No, because they believe Lori's this good mom. And she would never do something like that. And to me, it's hard to fault them. for that.

And like I said, who wants to believe that a member of their family is capable of doing something really bad to their own children? Yeah. No one. Nobody. Janice spoke to Lori after she was arrested when she asked about the kids. Lori said something to the effect of, you know me, mom. The kids are fine.

And I think just like you said about Chad, what else is she going to say? Yeah. They noted that the police said no one saw or heard from. JJ after September 23rd, 2019. But Janice said she called Lori on October 1st. Their call lasted 97 minutes. And she said she heard JJ playing in the background. And JJ said hello to her over the phone.

So I think this is a good place to end part one. We got a lot more to go in part two. We set it up front, right? This is a case that has been in the media, regularly since it all broke. Yeah. Especially since, you know, Lori's arrest is probably an understatement to say that the public has been shocked and outraged

every time that police reveal new elements of the investigation. In part two, we'll discuss the final stages of the investigation, Lori's murder trial, and the court dates for the other people involved in the case. Well, this case definitely has me fired up. Well, and you're not alone.

There are a lot of people who are, you know, very fired up about what transpired, some of which we're saving for part two. Right. But a lot of people already know, you know, what happened in this case. And, you know, it sickens many, most, I should say. But that's it for part one of the Lori Valo day. bell case. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Yes, hear them. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is David from Massachusetts. I'm a big fan. I listen to you guys as often as I can. I think I'm pretty current with true crime all the time and unsolved. I'm Patreon member, so I'm

kind of caught up on that too. So there may be a few episodes I haven't listened to in the past, but I'll check that out. Anyway, there are a couple of good cases in Massachusetts. Neil Entwistle is one. And I just forgot the other one. Oh, Charles Stewart. Both of them killed their wives. And both of them, they were really interesting stories.

They used to work for a newspaper, and they were big stories then. Anyway, I love your podcast. I just can't wait to hear every new episode. and I am definitely team decap and thank you very much for making me happy when I listen to you guys. Take care. Bye. Oh, thanks so much for the voicemail. Yeah, it means a lot.

And we will definitely look into those two cases. Yes, they sound like there could be a good ones. They do. Yeah. So I was waiting to see if you wanted to do that over or if you were just going to let that fly. Just let it fly. Yeah. I wasn't going to edit it out anyway.

It's all good. Hi, this is Caroline from Kansas City. I've been listening to you guys for a while now, but you're one of my favorite podcasts, not only because you make it humorous, but you give all the details. So many times that I've listened to podcasts of true crime that they skip over the details.

And I like that, that you give them all the details, even if it is gory, because it's nice to know exactly what's going on. I like to analyze, the criminals, whatever you want to call them. I was a criminal justice student for a while. I had to take a break, but I absolutely love it, and I absolutely love your show. You too have a great day. All right. Thank you so much for calling in and for the kudos. Always makes us feel good,

makes us feel really good. We have tried very hard over the years to kind of focus on the details, because, you know, I'm kind of the same way. I'm a detail-oriented person. I need to kind of know the minutia. The minutia? Yeah, I don't give me the overview. Give me, I really want to dive in. Yeah.

You know, that's sometimes why, you know, when they try to cover something in a movie, even if it's based on, like, real life, you can't get it all in there in an hour and 45 minutes. That's why I always like to read the books first. Uh-huh. Been reading a lot of books lately? What is the last book you read? The last book I read?

Uh-huh. You know, we're running out of time. Okay. Yeah. Think about that and get back to me next week. TV guy doesn't count. The library called and said that book you checked out in junior high. Yeah.

Is still overdue. But that's it, buddy. For another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own. time ticking.