True Crime All The Time - Luka Magnotta Part2

Episode Date: November 15, 2021

Luka Magnotta dreamed of becoming famous and he tried everything to make it happen. When that didn't work he began posting horrific videos to the web of animals being tortured and killed. Then, in 2012, he posted a video of a man being killed. The police eventually identified Luka as the person who had posted the videos and a manhunt began.Join Mike and Gibby for this second and final part of the Luka Magnotta story. In this second episode, we'll dive into the manhunt to find Luka, his arrest, and the sensational murder trial that captured the world's attention. The prosecution said Luka was a sadistic killer while his defense argued that he killed during a severe psychotic episode. It would be up to the jury to decide which one was correct.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 259 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, give you, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about you? Doing really well. I'm excited to 5.9. Yeah, it's a lot.

It is. When you sit and think about it, you know, we are coming up on our five-year anniversary here in a couple of weeks. Big number. It's a big number. No doubt about it. So we're tackling part two. of the Luca Magnata story in this episode.

But before that, let's give our shoutouts. For Patreon, we had Haley Armitage. Hey, Haley. John Dykstra jumped out of our highest level. What's up, Dykstra? Gas Demon 25 jumped out to our highest level. And I knew some gas demons back in the day. Elaine Cali.

What's going on, Elaine? Tasha White. Hey, Tasha. Portia Sandal. Hey, Sandal. Terry Doak. What up, Doak. Cassie Taylor Clark jumped out of our highest level.

Hey, CTC. Wendy. Hey, good old Wendy. William Vedder jumped out of our highest level. Hey, Veta. Magella O'Sullivan. Magilla. Crystal Whitmire.

Hey, Crystal. Cheyenne Ephamov. Well, I'm going to go with Cheyenne because I'm afraid I'll miss that last name up. Lori Stewart. Hey, Lori. Leslie Diane Heasley jumped out at our highest level. Well, thank you, Heasley. And last but not least, Jesse Provenek.

Proveneck. And if we go back into the Vault Gibbs, This week we selected Vicki. Hey, appreciate that, Vicki. So we do. We appreciate the new support, the long-term support. We had some great PayPal donations as well from Brenna Peckman. Hey, Brina.

Jason O'Hanian. Well, thank you, Liannan in. And Mike Murray. Hey, thank you, Mike. So thanks to all of you as well. Gibbs right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, we are talking about the Dayton Strangler. We are. So we're headed back to our hometown.

I shouldn't say back. We're still here. But we're talking about a story that occurred in our hometown of Dayton, Ohio. Yeah, we're going back to the 1900s, but let me tell you, it's a good one. We have plenty of suspects, and we'll talk about the victims as well, and we'll go from there. Yeah, it's a good episode. Make sure you check that out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time?

Oh, man, I couldn't wait for this episode. So in part one of the Luca Magnata episodes, we discuss. his troubled past, leading up to the murder of Lynn June. We talked about the murder itself, the infamous video that Luca posted online, and the beginning of the investigation. In part two, we'll cover the manhunt to locate Luca Magnata, his arrest, and the sensational murder trial that captured international attention. The prosecution and defense presented two opposing theories.

One argued insanity, while the other argued that it was months of calculated premeditation. So, as in a lot of these, the trial jury was tasked with making an important decision. Was Luca Magnata a highly organized sadistic killer? Or did he experience a severe psychotic episode when he killed Lynn June? On May 30th, 2012, the Montreal police issued a warrant for Luca's arrest. On May 31st, it was upgraded to a Canada-wide warrant. Luca was accused of several offenses, first-degree murder, committing an indignity to a dead body, publishing obscene material, mailing obscene and decent, immoral, or scurrilous material,

and criminally harassing Prime Minister Stephen Harper, as well as other parliament members. Scurrilous, that's a term that you don't hear all that often. Or never. I don't know that I've ever said it ever, but it was definitely scurrilous. It was also immoral, indecent, obscene. Also on May 31st, Interpol issued a red notice for Luca Magnata at the request of Canadian police, his name and photo were displayed on the Interpol website. The Red Notice requested that Luca be arrested pending extradition by any Interpol member state.

Wow. It seems very severe, which it should be. Yeah. I mean, obviously, he's a very high profile suspect judging, you know, from the fact that it very quickly went Canada wide. Now you bring Interpol into the picture. The Montreal police commander said in a press conference, there is no country in the world that is not talking about him. There's a lot of heat on him. There's a lot of pressure on him. So we believe that it's going to be hard for him too high. And I think that's a very true statement. You know, we talked about it in episode one, right? The videos of the kittens, the video of the murder. you know, all of that generated a lot of publicity. Sure did.

Newspapers, television shows. I mean, that is the type of stuff that they can very easily sensationalize because it's already sensational. Yeah. You don't have to do that much more to it. No. Kind of takes care of itself. But it did receive a lot of exposure in many, many different countries.

So one of the big questions that they were dealing with. at that time was where did Luca Magnata go after posting the video and disposing of Lynn June's body. As it turned out on May 26th, 2012, Luca fled to Paris using a passport under the name Kirk Trammell. His cell signal was traced to a hotel in Bagnolet, but he was gone by the time police arrived. All that was left behind in the room was an... air sickness bag and some pornographic magazines. Okay. Traveling light, I get it. Very light, but strange as well. Yeah. Strange light. Strange light. Yeah. The police knew Luca had some contacts in Paris from a 2010 vacation. The police contacted a man named Henry and another man that Luca vacationed with.

neither of them knew where Luca was or said they had any recent contact with him. Luca boarded a Euroline's bus at the Bagnoly coach station and he traveled to Berlin, Germany. He stayed there for the next few days. On June 1st, he emailed his sister, Melissa. He said, how does it feel to be the sister of a murderer? What a weird thing to send to your sister. How do you think it's going to feel? Yeah.

That, you know, people all over the world are viewing you as this absolute monster. Melissa Newman told the police that she and Luca exchanged texts on May 24th and that they talked on the phone on the 25th, but she couldn't remember exactly what they spoke about. Are that a little strange that you can't recall? It's a little strange in the context of what is going on. Now, Gibby, if I asked you, hey, did you talk to your brother a couple of weeks ago and you said, yeah, what'd you talk about? If you couldn't remember, I wouldn't find that extremely strange. Right. Because there was really nothing big going on in your life where it would stand out.

Yeah. This is different. Oh, huge. Your brother is being portrayed as this sadistic murderer. So when you're talking on the phone with him, you really kind of think that that conversation would stick with you. You would think that came up during that conversation. Hey, brother, what were you thinking? What did you? Why did you? How did you? How did you? Yeah, all the how's wise wins and where. Exactly. Luca was arrested in Berlin at an internet cafe on June 4th, 2012. The officers who arrested him found him reading news articles about himself. Oh, so he enjoys hearing about him. As most killers do. You know,

we've seen that, you know, for years and years and years. But let's go back in kind of take a look at Luca. He was obsessed with being famous. We talked about it. We detailed it out. I think it surprises me less that he would do this than, than really anybody that we've ever talked about. Because he's getting what he wanted. Now, maybe it's not the way he wanted it. Maybe he wanted it to be more of a good guy image or whatever. But, you know, he's famous. Maybe infamous is a better word for it. Right. I like that. Yeah. Can't imagine he's not going to be soaking up every online article, every paper he can get his hands on, watching every new story on, on television that that's on about him. The The cafe owner told the press that a colleague recognized Luca because he just read the paper.

And from all accounts, Gibbs, the arrest was calm. It was quiet. Luca did deny his identity at first, but eventually told the officers, okay, you got me. And then later, Berlin police confirmed his identity with fingerprints. Fingerprints don't lie, do they? Not for most people. they might for you, someone who's taken great pains to burn their fingerprints off, severe pains. Luca appeared in a Berlin courthouse on June 5th.

And he did not oppose his extradition. And we mentioned to Gibbs. This was a huge story, you know, really all over the world. By the time he was arrested, it was massive, right? The story of what he had done, the video, you know, those things were being talked about. all over the world, Chinese citizens were extremely upset. They believed the murder was racially motivated. Others questioned the safety of Chinese immigrants and students in Canada,

because this was the second high-profile murder of a Chinese student in the last two years. Up to this point, the first victim was Kwan Lu, a 23-year-old student murdered by Canadian citizen Brian Dixon. So they have a legit beef. At the very least, you can see where, you know, they're putting two and two together, right? Multiple murders by Canadian citizens against Chinese immigrants. Okay. What are we two think? Right. Did they have anything to do with each other? No. But the media is going to tie it together. Well, that's true too. I mean, I don't have exact examples, but we all know. Right. You know, when, when those types of things happen, the media, they're, they're going to run with it. They're going to either purposefully or maybe unconsciously

fan the flames. I think you could look at it either way. Yeah, makes over good press. It does make for good press. Now, is it always accurate? No. Is it going to fan the flames of the individuals in China. Yeah, you could see where it would. Sure. Yeah, it's going to cause fear. Lynn June's family arrived in Montreal on June 6th. The family and other supporters held a candlelight vigil for Lynn June in Montreal. They spoke to the press and said Lynn was a smart, studious man. His family was very proud of him for getting an education. His mother told CBC that Lynn thought Canada was a safe and welcoming place for immigrants. And, and, I know that's true.

We kind of touched on it in episode one, right? He would have these calls with his mother. She was always worried about him. Sure, yeah. And he kept reassuring her that, hey, this is a safe place. And in large part, I'm sure it was and is. Right. It's just when you run into a monster, it's no longer safe.

Yeah. Doesn't matter where you're at. No. You could be in any country in the world and run into a monster. On June 18th, 2012, Luca was delivered to authorities and flown back to Canada on an Air Force plane. This was a secret operation. I think what they were trying to do Gibbs was to minimize media coverage as much as possible. I think the other hurdle that they had was the commercial airlines, they refused to take Luca as a passenger.

We don't want that idiot on our plane, that monster. And how can you blame them? First of all, you're going to put this guy on with hundreds of other passengers. Who wants to fly with this monster? Nobody. And then secondly, are you going to devote an entire plane to this guy and whoever is bringing him back to Canada? When Luca arrived in Canada, he was transferred to solitary confinement at the Riviera

De Prairie Detention Center. Now, my French is horrible. I'm sure I butchered that, but I thought you did pretty, pretty good. Well, I always in my head think that I'm close. And then I later find out that I am not close. In fact, I'm about as wrong as I can be. Yeah. That happens from time to time.

And then, you know, every now and then I'll get the, wow, you nailed that one. Yeah. Well, maybe you're getting on this one. Maybe. Maybe. We'll see. Luca appeared in court via a video conference on June 19th, 2012 to plead not guilty to all charges. On June 21st, he appeared in court in person to request a jury trial.

So I do want to take a step back here, Gibbs, and just talk about the timeline. You know, a warrant for his arrest was issued at the end of May. He was arrested very quickly within like about. five days. By June 18th, he's back in Canada. And before that month is out, he's appearing in court. So things did progress pretty quickly. The way they should. Well, in all honesty, you'd love it if every case could be wrapped up this quickly. We know it's not possible. It's never going to happen all the time. But with a monster like this, you want to get it wrapped up as quick as you can. Yeah, because you don't know what else this guy is going to do.

Right? He's a wild card to say the least. And then, you know, I think things died down a little bit in the months that followed as Luca waited trial. Now, while the time between the murder and the videos and the arrest was very quick, as with most criminal cases, the time between arrest and trial can go on for quite a while. And this one did as well. It took a little bit over a year. You got to build your defense. You do. And I was actually watching a documentary the other day. And I can't remember which one it was. It was a good one on HBO Max. And that was one of the arguments against this person's first attorney is that they went to trial way too quickly. There's no way in this case that they could have been prepared to go to trial in four, five, six weeks.

and that's what they did. So that came up on appeal, right? And normally it takes six months to a year, maybe even longer, to pour through all the evidence, to gather and talk to witnesses to, as you said, really prepare your defense because that's what you have to do. At a preliminary hearing on March 11, 2013, Luca's defense attorney, Luke Leclair, requested that the media and public be banned from all. all hearings. His request was denied. In attendance at this hearing was Lynn Durant, Lynn June's father.

He came from China to attend the pretrial hearings and actually attended most of the trial. I think any parent, if they could, would want to be there. Maybe not. Yeah, no, you and I have gone back and forth about that. Yeah. I do think most would because in my mind, I think a lot of parents would feel as though they need to be there for their son or daughter. Right. You know, I need to represent. I need to show up. But at the same time, we've heard from some parents that they just can't sit there and listen to the details. They just can't do it. I think I'd want to be able to look at his eyes and make sure he sees me. The part I wouldn't be sure about is, could I control myself or would I want to go over that little tiny little barrier and ring his neck?

Yeah, exactly. One of Luca's attorneys resigned at a hearing on March 13th due to a conflict of interest. Several expert witnesses testified and the prosecution presented video evidence. And Gibbs during these proceedings, both Luca and Lynn June's father collapsed from, the shock of seeing the video evidence. I think anybody in that courtroom probably could have passed out from seeing that. How horrific was that to see? Yeah, I'm with you. I'm actually surprised there was only two people. Now, it doesn't surprise me at all that Lynn June's father would collapse. You know, you're seeing your son on video. Right. Being murdered, tortured. How does somebody deal with that?

Now, why does Luca Magnata collapse? That's a little bit tougher question to answer. You know, is it that he's seeing himself on this video for the first time? I can't imagine that he wouldn't have watched the video prior to this. Was he doing it for attention? Yeah. I mean, you can go down a couple of different avenues. On April 12th, Luca was indicted on charges of first degree murder,

offering indignities to a human body, distributing obscene materials, using the postal service to distribute obscene materials, and criminal harassment. His trial was set for September 15th, 2014. So another delay? Again, which is not all that unusual for, you know, a lot of high profile cases. On June 16th, 2013, the Edmonton police charged Markle. Mark Merrick, owner of Best Gore, with corrupting morals for allowing the video on his website. Mark Merrick was arrested on the 26th for breaching the conditions of his bail.

That's interesting that they charged him. Definitely needed to be done. It shouldn't have been out there. It was a very obscene video. Yeah, no doubt. And I may have mentioned it in episode one, but I've heard stories about how young kids ended up viewing that video, not sure exactly whether it was real or fake. And then, you know, at some point finding out it was real and it greatly affected them. I'm sure a lot of

younger people were traumatized after watching the video. You know, I do think what is an interesting kind of sidebar is, okay, you're the owner of a site that allowed. people to upload their own videos. What safeguards do you have in place to ensure that something like this does not get uploaded? Because, you know, I'm kind of thinking about YouTube, right? I think things get uploaded to YouTube all the time. Now, they're taken down very quickly, but I don't know if YouTube has a way to stop a video. I don't know if they have algorithms that, you know, are able to detect certain things within a video right off the bat. Maybe I'm wrong about that. No, I think you're right because I remember when we did that case a couple weeks ago

with the individual posting to YouTube, I think that was part of the problem, you know, that it was hard for YouTube to get rid of that video because once it's out there, people keep upload, they can get rid of it. Yeah. But then it's going to be uploaded five minutes later, 10 minutes later. Exactly. So, yeah, it's with all of these new digital entities come these types of questions. Yeah. Okay. What is your responsibility to ensure that X doesn't happen?

And it's the same with Facebook, Instagram, all of them. Look, I try to get rid of all the Rex West pictures and videos from the past. It's tough, right? And I thought I got rid of all of them. but every now and then they're like reappeared. I'm like, where did that come from? Well, you know the old saying. Once you put something out there on the internet,

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that's P-R-O-S-C.com slash T-Cat for your free in-depth hair consultation and 15% off. Luca's trial began on September 30th, 2014. The trial lasted 10 weeks. The jury heard shocking and graphic testimony from many different witnesses. Luca Magnata admitted to the murder, but he pleaded not criminally responsible due to mental illness. Now, the Crown argued that, the murder was planned, while the defense relied heavily on psychological reports and medical records to prove that Luca had schizophrenia and that he was experiencing a psychotic episode at the time

of the murder. The crown countered by using surveillance footage and witness testimony to try to prove that Luca planned the murder and his escape for a number of months. I always think about these moments in the courtroom, you know, the chess play, you know, how the defense is going to portray the defendant and how the prosecutor is going to have to come back and counter that or vice versa. You know, it's, it's very interesting, intriguing. Yeah. And actually, I think the chess analogy is a, is a perfect one, right? There are moves. There's counter moves. There are things that are done to try to block your opponent like you would do in chess. And so I think it's a great analysis. And at the same time, you've got to read the jury.

How are they perceiving what they're hearing? Or how do you think they will? That's probably the bigger thing, right? Before you even introduce it or bring it up or or something like that. The prosecution gave their opening statement first. They said Lynn June met Luca Magnata when he responded to one of Luca's ads on Craigslist. According to Luca, Lynn was looking for Kiki sex. Surveillance footage shows Lynn June walking into Luca's apartment building on May 24th.

In the hours that followed, the security footage shows Luca cleaning and running errands occasionally while wearing Lynn's clothes. Strange. Oh, very strange. Obviously, the footage would have captured Lynn walking in. You could see what he's wearing. Now all of a sudden, you see Luca wearing that outfit. the prosecution also presented the threatening email that Luca sent to the son where he described the pleasure he got from killing and his plans to make a video of murder.

Well, you're setting the stage, right? To say this was premeditated. No doubt. That's what they're trying to do. Also not a great look, right? If you're Luca Magnata to have this from your past surface, the fact that you did send this email. You did say that you were going to make a video now with humans and there would be murder and all that. Kind of does scream a little bit of premeditation. Sure does.

The defense opened by arguing that Luca was experiencing a psychotic episode with auditory hallucinations at the time of the murder. They presented a much different version of that night. They said that Luca put the ad on Craigslist seeking a sex partner who was interested in bondage. Lynn June responded to the ad. The men met at a metro station and went back to Luca's apartment. Luca started to feel nervous during intercourse and asked Lynn June to stop. The defense said that he went to the window and he saw a black car. And he believed that the people inside the car,

were government spies. Luca and Lynn drank some wine. They shared some anti-anxiety pills at Lynn's request. And it was this combination of Luca's mental illness, the alcohol, and the pills that according to the defense triggered the psychotic episode. So I think like you said, Gibbs, pretty easy to see here what each side is going for. Sure, yeah, trying to set the stage. I think if I was in that courtroom as a juror at this point in time listening to the opening statements, I'm probably leaning more towards the prosecution.

Maybe a little bit easier to believe. Yes. So speaking of the jury, the jury was told that their task was to determine if Luca committed the five charges with the required state of mind. So under Canada law, a person cannot be held criminally responsible for an act committed while suffering from a mental disorder that, quote, renders the person incapable of appreciating the nature in quality of the act or omission or of knowing it was wrong. That's quite a bit to say there. It is. I mean, we talked about it. Luca had already admitted to the acts.

So, you know, the prosecution really didn't have to prove that part of the case, right? They didn't have to prove that he committed the murder. That he had already admitted to that. What they had to do was convince the jury that Luca planned the murder, that this wasn't a spur of the moment thing brought on by some type of psychotic episode, mental illness. the defense had to prove that Luca was not criminally responsible due to a psychotic episode. Now, there's a lot more to this trial, right? There always is.

But if you look at it in those terms, it's pretty simple. Yeah. When you really boil it down, the prosecution is trying to do this and the defense is trying to do this. The defense called on Donald Newman as their first witness. Newman testified about Lucas childhood, you know, much of all of that stuff that we discussed in episode one. He also testified about his schizophrenia diagnosis and how he thought that may have affected Luca.

The CBC reported that the court then heard testimony from Officer Chantal Turmel, who searched Luca's apartment on May 29th, 2012. Luca's unit was cleaned out, pretty bare, except for a suspicious red stain. She found items in the garbage from the one lunatic, one ice pick video, specifically a Casablanca poster and a wine bottle seen in the video. Forensic investigator Carolina Semino testified about some of the notes. Luca sent with the packages. one of the notes was addressed to the prime minister and said Stephen Harper and Lauren Teske,

you will know who this is. They fucked me big time. Another note from a package to a school said, roses are red, violets are blue. The police will need dental records to identify you, bitch. Well, he's got a way with words now, doesn't he? He has a way with words. But so, you know, Gibbs, they're still presenting a ton of evidence here, even though he's already admitted to the murder. And then on October 1st, the court heard testimony from Lynn Fung, Lynn June's ex-boyfriend. He revealed some secrets about Lynn's personal life. He said he and Lynn dated for about a year and a half and they lived together. They met in Beijing in 2009 and began dating in 2010 when they lived in Shanghai.

He described Lynn June as a faithful man who didn't drink, smoke, or do drugs. He also said that Lynn was not promiscuous and didn't like bondage. So I think that's important. It is important. You're talking about an ex-boyfriend who would have very specific, detailed knowledge. of, you know, let's face it, what type of sexual activities this person was into. Sure. And he's saying he wasn't into that. According to him, bondage was not one of those things. Well, so then you have to ask the question.

Would Lynn June have responded to a Craigslist ad seeking a partner who was interested in bondage? Well, not according to his ex-boyfriend. He described their physical relationship as normal, Lin-Fung met Lynn June's parents, but they didn't know that the two were dating. Gibbs, his family disapproved of homosexuality. Lynn June broke up with Lin-Fung a few weeks before his murder. And from what I understand, Lynn's family had been pressuring him to marry a woman. He had been married to a woman in the past, but got divorced. Lynn Fung told the court his family was not aware that he was gay.

That's why he was trying to date a girl. I think it would be tough to be gay in a family that doesn't approve of that lifestyle. Yeah. I would say it would have to be tougher. That's certainly, I'm sure, why Lynn June would have been trying to date women. And, you know, who wants to disappoint their family? Not many people. No.

Some people don't care. But I think most people, they strive not to disappoint their family. Now, it's very tough when you're gay and your family openly comes out and you know it. They wholeheartedly disapprove of that. Yeah. And you can't be yourself, right? You want to be yourself. You want to be who you are.

And that's where you see some people, you know, getting married. to someone who they're not attracted to. Sounds to me like that's what happened here. The CBC reported that Lin Feng and Lin June remained friends after the breakup and they texted sometimes 40 to 50 times a day. Even after Lin Feng moved back to China in May 2012.

The defense asked Lin Feng about a man named Amil. Lynn messaged with him on May 19th, 2012. And Lin Feng answered that, you know, they had broken up at this time. So, Lynn June had all of his freedom. He was free to text with whoever he wanted to. Yeah, if you're not going out, if you're not a couple anymore, obviously you can do whatever you want. But Lynn Fung became concerned. When Lynn June stopped answering his texts on May 24th, 2012, he was in Thailand on a vacation when he received a message that Lynn June was missing.

And Gibbs, he quickly booked a flight to Canada so that he could help out with the search. Well, obviously, we know he loved Lynn. Yeah, he had deep, deep feelings for this person. They had broken up. I get it. But I think we all know those feelings don't just always go away. Most of the time, they don't. I think it proves it that he jumps on a flight in the middle of a flight in the middle of

a vacation because he's so worried about his ex-boyfriend. And he was on a layover when he found out that Lynn June was dead. Devastating news. Absolutely. On October 7th, Dong Dong Shu, one of Lynn June's best friends testified. He described Lynn as timid and reserved. He said he spent most of his time with his then-boyfriend, Lynn Fung. Dong Shu told the court, he received a call from Lin Fung on May 27. Lynn asked him to investigate because Lynn June hadn't contacted him in over 60 hours. And like we said, they texted 40, 50 times a day. Right.

Yeah, that's very strange at that point. Yeah. So you're going on almost three days here. And that would be alarming for somebody that you text with many, many times a day. Exactly. Dong Shu went to Lynn's apartment. And when he got inside, he found a hungry cat, an oily frying pan, and some eggs on the counter.

His roommate didn't know where Lynn was. He went to Lynn's workplace and found out that he hadn't shown up in two days. Getting a little nervous at this point. Yeah. He testified that he was afraid. Something unpleasant had happened. And he went to the police. The police told him to talk to the university first.

So Dong Shu went back to Lynn's apartment, found his. book bag and his personal documents. On May 29th, he went online after hearing about the one lunatic, one ice pick video and gives he recognized Lynn June in the video. But he couldn't identify the man at the beginning of the video. Now, we have talked in many, many episodes about spouses, loved ones, boyfriends, girlfriends, friends, finding someone murdered. That would be devastating, horrible, life changing. This is a little different scenario. Gibbs, you are seeing a video of that person being murdered.

Very tough. You stomach that. Well, my answer to that is it's hard for us to stomach it. And we don't know or didn't know Lynn June. Then put yourself into the shoes of someone who knew him, who cared about him. And that level of difficulty goes up, you know, by a factor of whatever. But it's, it's very, very high. On October 23rd, 2014, the jury watched the entire video of Lynn's murder.

In the video, Luca ties Lynn's murder. up to a bedpost and he straddles him. He stabs Lynn with what looks to be a nice pick, but turned out to really be a modified screwdriver. He dismembered the body before feeding the flesh to a dog and then Gibbs he killed that dog. This guy is just. Now, he's one of the biggest POSs of all times. He really is.

He really is. The jury also learned of the police's shocking, discovery, they found out that the full unedited video was actually two sets of video footage that was spliced together. Six days before Lynn's murder, Luca kidnapped and tied up another man. This man has never been identified and police still don't know where he is, but Luca didn't kill this man because he was seen on apartment security footage leaving the next day with Luca helping him down the stairs. Well, maybe this is the, let's give it a test run.

Practice run. You know, that's, that sounds cold, but I think that's what it could have been. Because the first part of the video depicts the assault of this unknown man. Luca ties him up, gags him, blindfolds him. He stands beside the bed, he leans over, and he stares at the man's face. And then all of a sudden, he has a saw in his hand. Lucas straddles the man and he asks him, are you okay? The man's asleep at first.

But when he wakes up, he struggles to escape. So, you know, I think you're on to something there. Maybe he had plans to kill this guy or maybe he just wanted to, I hate to say the word practice because it sounds so horrible, but what else would you call it? Yeah. The court also viewed photos from a memory card found in the trash. Luca took pictures of himself with the man while he was unconscious.

The defense called on expert witnesses in November. Luca's first psychologist was Dr. Joel Watts. Dr. Watts escorted Luca on the plane from Germany to Canada, per German laws. He had a 20-minute meeting with Luca, and he believed that Luca was faking his mental illness when he talked about experiencing hallucinations without being asked about it. Like you read up on it or something? Like, I got to make sure I get this hallucination stuff out here. Yeah, but after another meeting, this guy changed his opinion.

Eventually, Dr. Watts submitted a 124-page report to the defense. He determined that Luca was suffering from an acute psychotic episode, linked to schizophrenia when he killed Lynn June and mailed the body parts. According to him, Luca was unable to know what he was doing was wrong, although he definitely understood the physical acts that he was performing. Dr. Watts was one of two psychologists who determined Luca was not criminally responsible due to psychosis. So this is huge, right?

because this is what the defense from the beginning had set out to do to prove that Luca was not criminally responsible. And now you have not one, but two different doctors who are agreeing with that assessment. Yeah, and a 124 page report. I'm just thinking you could probably summarize that up. That's what I was going to say.

Does it need to be 124 pages? But, you know, maybe. And here's the thing. we have to talk about if you are an expert witness for the defense. Are you getting paid by the word? Are you getting paid by the page? Does it behoove you to make it 124 pages? Most likely, yes. I'm just throwing things out there. Luca apparently told Dr. Watts that he felt out of control the night he murdered Lynn June. He said a man named Emmanuel Mani Lopez called him repeatedly and asked the two men to perform sexual acts.

Lucas said that Manny told him that Lynn was a government agent and that voices in his head took over and told him to kill Lynn. I wonder if Luca told the doctor that he felt out of control because it helps his case to say he's not criminally responsible. Well, I think that's the big question, right? And it's one that a jury, and especially this jury, would have to wrestle with. You know, how much of this is real,

how much of this is fabricated, because obviously it does help his defense. And if it is fabricated, he's really going to dive in some really deep details on what occurred that night. Yeah, Luca told Dr. Watts, it was like a blackout. I remember feeling wet,

hearing voices saying, cut it. In my head, he was an agent. I was hearing static, being very afraid that he poisoned me, and that is why I was feeling sick. He was working for the government. He said, Manny told him to put the body in the tub, to put items in the garbage, and to purchase the mailboxes. Dr. Watts wrote that Luca almost hyperventilated when he recalled details of the murder.

He said it was difficult for him to talk about the crime because it scared him. Luca told Dr. Watts that he met Manny while doing some escort work and that Manny was an abusive client. I think one of the big issues Gibbs is that there's really no evidence that this Manny even exists. Sure. Filled up in his head. Yeah, according to the CBC, Luca told Dr. Watts, I'm not sure at times if he is real or not. I guess if I buy into what Luca's saying, I can see why he passed out in the courtroom that day when he saw the video. Maybe as if he was viewing it or seeing those events for the first time. Yeah. Because when it really happened, he was having an out-of-body experience or something like that. Exactly. I get it. I get it. But, you know, as you mentioned,

the big caveat there is if you believe what he said. Exactly. Or maybe I should say if the jury believes what he's saying. Luca mentioned Manny again when he met with psychologist Dr. Marie Frederick Allard. Several months later, Dr. Allard spent 23 total hours with Luca.

She also had access to witness testimony and all of his medical records. She submitted her report to the court on November 10, 2014. Luca told her that a weird energy came over him and forced him to

kill Lynn June. Again, he said that he believed Lynn was a government spy. Voices entered his head like a radio and told him, do it. He's from the government. After cutting Lynn June's throat, he heard voices telling him to give it back, which he interpreted to mean that he should send Lynn's body parts to political entities. Now, Luca never really did explain why he sent. He sent packages to Vancouver schools, but said it may have been because he and Lynn talked about Vancouver. Luca couldn't explain how he remembered names or addresses and said they simply popped into his head. He also said that he edited and posted the one lunatic, one ice pick video to scare the voices away. So there's a lot going on here in both of the discussions that

Luca had with these two psychologists. So there's a lot to unpack here. I mean, you know, one of the things, and we addressed it in episode one, was why did he send body parts to the schools? I remember us asking that question. We still don't really have an answer other than him telling a psychologist that he and Lynn talked about Vancouver. What we do know is that Luca said he didn't sleep for over 36 hours after the murder.

he ordered a pizza disposed of the body, clean the crime scene, edited the video, and booked a flight to Paris. He said that as he moved around Europe, he was confused and scared. He experienced several blackouts. He told Dr. Allard, I felt I was inside another person's body.

Well, after doing what he did, I think you probably could feel like he were in somebody else's a body. So the thing about this part that jumped out at me, Gibbs was, you know, he's in Europe, he's confused and scared. But after the murder, he managed to order a pizza, dispose of the body, clean up the crime scene, edit the video, post the video, and book a flight to Paris. He was able to do all of that. Doesn't really sound like he's too scared. Well, you would think that someone experiencing some of the things that he is saying he experienced would have a lot of trouble getting all of that done because there's some details

there that you have to work through. Dr. Allard determined that Luca was aware of his actions, but didn't know they were wrong because he had no sense of reality. Luca was in a psychotic state and hadn't taken his medication for almost two years. She confirmed his 2001 schizophrenia diagnosis Luca visited hospitals and complained about hearing voices and being watched. At first, the medical workers thought he was faking the voices, but Dr. Allard believed that he wasn't. Age 18 to 20 is the most common time for men to begin showing symptoms of schizophrenia. Luca saw the same psychologist for six years.

In 2003, his psychologist reported he was full of paranoid. delusion, but that he wasn't violent. Paranoid delusion. That takes you into that whole spy, government spy arena. But that person was definitely wrong about the not being violent. In Dr. Allard's opinion, Luca was a difficult patient because he minimized and preferred not to discuss his symptoms. He was affected by his father's diagnosis and didn't want to appear sick to avoid the stigma.

that often comes with a schizophrenia diagnosis. According to the CBC, Dr. Allard reported, Mr. Magnata suffers from schizophrenia. That illness was present on May 25th, 2012, and it is responsible for the five charges against him. Well, that's a big statement. It's huge from the standpoint of the defense, right? And for Luca.

But on November 12th, the prosecution cross-examined Dr. Alard. She was asked if it was possible that Luca had lied to her. The prosecutor suggested Luca was a pathological liar. Dr. Alard said she was satisfied with the answers Luca gave her. The prosecutor referenced in April 2012 hospital visit that Alard had testified earlier about in the trial. The prosecutor alleged Luca had lied about his symptoms to avoid,

void hospitalization. And the doctor said his mental illness and trauma could have caused many different types of memory lapses, which is why he could have told different stories to the psychologists. That sounds like they have an answer for everything. But the prosecution pointed out some things that they said Luca left out of his story. One was that he purchased paint after the murder and applied it to the suitcase before putting the torso inside. No one knows where Luca got the pills he and Lynn took on May 24th.

Luca told the doctor that they were leftovers from a 2010 prescription. But as far as I know, this has never been confirmed. Luca purchased a new set of sheets and throughout pillows. The prosecutor suggested Luca threw the items away to hide evidence. But the doctor said he most likely did it. to hide from the government agents he believed were after him. The prosecution suggested that Luca wore Lynn's clothing as a trophy. But the doctor countered that he could have believed it was proof to give to the government

agents, right, that he had taken care of or gotten rid of Lynn. Part of her report reads that Luca believed government spies were waiting for him, which is why he fled in the middle of the night. So like you said, Gibbs, there's an answer for everything. There's also a back and forth, right? Point, counterpoint. The prosecution is saying he did it for this reason. Doctors are saying, well, he could have done it for this reason.

It's a lot for the jury to soak in. Sure is. It's a good tennis match going back and forth. It is. Chess match, tennis match. I mean, there are some really good analogies there. But the prosecution had their own psychologist, a Dr. Chamberlain, who refuted Dr. Watts report and basically everything that Dr. Allard had said in court. The trial continued for several more weeks. There were many days where the jury was not present, while the prosecution and defense argued over various legal issues.

And one of the things that's been said gives is that Luca Magnus, NADA acted differently when the jury was not present. When they were present, he hunched over in his seed. He kind of avoided looking at anyone. When they were not present, he set up straight and he paid attention. Well, that's interesting. It is. Yeah.

And I think people saw it and they obviously pointed it out. Okay, what does that mean? Does it mean that he's putting on a show for the jury? And I'm sure a lot of people took it that way. Well, he is fighting for his life. Well, it got to the point where the prosecutor pointed it out and asked to be allowed to bring an expert witness to the stand to be questioned about it. But the judge didn't allow it. One issue that came up in the trial was the promotional image for one lunatic, one ice pick, which shows Luca Magnata posing in a purple hoodie with an ice pick.

To me, that kind of seems like. premeditation and celebrating what you did. Well, I was going to say, if it's not premeditation, then it's, you know, the kind of image was done after the fact before the video was posted. Well, but that still means something, right? I believe so. You're proud of it. You are promoting yourself in this murder video.

And I think you could ask the question, you know, if you're afraid of, the government or somebody that's after you, well, why would you pose in a purple hoodie and be holding an ice pick? No, you're right. I mean, why go to the extent of kind of like marketing the video? Yeah, if the sole intent of putting it out was to prove that you got rid of this government spy, well, is there really a need for promotion around it? Promotion of yourself. Now, to me, that goes back to what we talked about a lot of in episode one. This guy wants to be famous. Okay. Would that be a reason for putting a picture of yourself? Absolutely. Yeah, I think it would be. But surprisingly, the jury was not allowed to see the image,

right? The prosecution and the defense argued over it and it was ruled that they wouldn't be allowed to see it. The CBC reported that things got tense at times. between the judge and the attorneys, he was often complaining about them wasting time. He criticized Luca's defense team for focusing too much on Luca's teenage years. He said you were arguing about crumbs in the periphery of the case, probably to establish grounds for an appeal. But he also attacked the prosecution. He said, we're losing precious time with side shows, side issues, things that would not

have arisen if proper procedure had been followed. So it doesn't sound to me, Gibbs, like he's too happy with either side. Yeah, he's dishing it out on both sides. The judge declared the evidence closed on December 4th, 2014. The jury deliberated for eight days. That's a long time. That's a long time. And I think it shows you, first of all, how much they had to wade through. Sure. and probably secondly that they really wanted to make sure they looked at it from all sides, all angles, and that they made the best decision possible. I mean,

this wasn't, you know, 20, 30 minutes where everybody voted and they were like, yep, he's guilty. Right. They really took their time.

Yeah. In deliberating what they had seen and heard. Well, that's the way you should do it, right? Go through every detail of the trial and weigh it out. On December 23rd, 2014, Luca Magnaata was found guilty of first-degree murder. He received an automatic life sentence with no possibility of parole for 25 years.

He received another 19-year concurrent sentence for the additional charges. Luca closed his eyes and showed no emotion as the foreman read the verdict. And Gibbs will probably talk about it more at the end, but, you know, that's the type of of sentence that we're just not quite used to seeing. The automatic life sentence, I get it. But the possibility of parole in 25 years, we probably would not see that over here in this type of very grisly murder. Right. Lynn June's father read a powerful victim impact statement later that day. He said, I feel bad that I was not there to warn Lynn that night. I will never see his smiling face on video chat or hear about his new accomplishments or hear his laugh.

Lynn June's birthday is on December 30th and he will never be there for his birthday or hours. The murder has robbed us not only of Lynn June, but our ability to think and talk about him without feeling pain and shame. I have spent more time in Canada and now know why my son wanted to live here. this knowledge hurts all the more to know what my son is missing by not being alive in your country i've come to see your trial system to see justice done and i am satisfied that you have not let my son down okay that is very powerful it is number one he's saying this man took you know our son away we're never going to be able to see him again but then goes on to say you know, how wonderful Canada is.

He can see why his son wanted to be there. And then really kind of thanking the criminal justice system for not letting his son down. Yeah, and getting the justice that his son deserved. Luke Leclair told the press that this case should serve as a warning for the importance of well-funded mental health programs. after the trial animal beta project found a fake account linking to a man named manny but Gibbs they could never confirm if Emmanuel Lopez was a real person involved in the murder the group discovered manny was a fictional character from the 1992 movie Basic Instinct and apparently Luca was heavily influenced by the movie one of his aliases was K. Trammel

K. Trammell. I'm not sure exactly how you say it. But I do know that Sharon Stone's character, Catherine Tramel, was the inspiration for this fake profile. He was also inspired by a scene from the film when he murdered Lynn June. Pretty sure the producers of basic instincts are like, yeah, we don't want to be associated with this. Please don't lump us in with this. But, you know, if you think about that movie, and to be honest with you, it's been a long time since I've seen I'm pretty sure that she kills with an ice pick. If I remember correctly, that's kind of her weapon of choice. Yeah.

Or her murder tool. Ooh, murder tool. I like that. I do like that. On January 19th, 2015, Luca filed an appeal to get his convictions annulled and he requested a retrial. His attorney Luke Leclair cited judicial error in jury instruction. He called the verdicts,

unreasonable and unsupported by evidence. He claimed that the judge should not have allowed Magnata's email to the son into evidence. He also failed to dismiss a jury member despite reasonable grounds for bias. At trial, juror number 14 became a point of contention. Apparently, she knew a local police officer, but this officer was not involved in the Luca Magnata investigation. So the judge determined that there wasn't enough evidence to prove bias.

Lucas appeal was denied and he remains in prison. Yeah, I think his email to The Sun should have been included. I'm glad they did include it. I think it was a very important piece of the trial. Yeah, I actually felt as though the defense was able to get a lot of things excluded that I thought should have been included, that I thought the jury should have heard. On June 26, 2017, Luca married a man. He met on an online dating website. Apparently, Gibbs, he signed up for Canadian Inmates Connect. In June 2015, he met Anthony Jolet, a burglar serving a life sentence for stabbing a fellow inmate in the shower. On his profile, Luca wrote, Canadian Psycho, seeking a single white male, 28, to 38 years of age, white and in shape, one who is loyal, preferably educated, financially and

emotionally stable for a long-term committed relationship. Shouldn't you get the same on the backside of that? On the backside of what? You know, I mean, shouldn't if that's what you want? Oh, okay. I didn't know what path you were going down there. So you're saying, if he's asking for this, shouldn't he also be? be able to provide it as well.

Exactly. I thought it was interesting that you're looking for someone who is financially stable. How financially stable is anyone when they're in prison? Right. You're not making a ton of money, I don't believe. I get the long-term commitment. You ain't going anywhere. You're going to have that.

That part is pretty much guaranteed. He said, if you think you could be my prince charming, send me a detailed letter with at least two photos. Eventually, they married at the Port Cardier Institution, but correctional services, Canada does not allow conjugal visits or cohabitation among married inmates. So, well, they had the photos of each other. They got photos, but I don't think they're seeing a whole lot of each other, if at all. I just found it interesting that Canada has kind of their own inmate dating website. It's bizarre. I don't know if it's only for inmates

or people on the outside world can... Date an inmate? Date an inmate, which we know people do for some reason. I feel like this is like one of those Seinfeld George things, right? Where George wanted to date the woman in prison. Until she got out. Then he's like, I don't want to do this. It became way too real at that point.

Luca is currently serving his sentence at the Archambeau Institution in Quebec. Gibbs, he'll be eligible for parole in 2039. Question is, will he get it? Yeah, I don't know if he will. Judging by other cases we've done, in some cases we haven't done, but that we know about,

I'd say there's a much greater chance that he gets it than he would, if he would have been sentenced here in the U.S., you know, think about Carla Hamulka, right, getting out. Think about, what's his name, Vince Lee, I think. the guy that beheaded the guy on the bus, he's out.

Yeah. I mean, you know, these were very serious, heinous crimes, as was Luca Magnatas. I'm thinking he'll be out at some point. I don't know if it'll be 2039, but eventually. He'll be back on the street, potentially trying out for another reality television show. Maybe him and Carla can hook up again. Allegedly. Yes.

But I don't think his husband would like that. I don't think he would approve of that. Oh, we're assuming that their relationship will last. Eh, they'll probably last at least till 2039. Until he's out. Until the first one gets out. Exactly. But Gibbs, there's no doubt.

Luca Magnata's case remains one of the most high-profile murder cases in Canadian history. And I think it's still very heavily debated. Whether Lucca was truly. experiencing some sort of psychotic episode at the time of the murder, or whether he planned everything out in this effort to get the fame that he desired. Yeah. I'll be honest with you, I lean towards the latter. Could he have had a psychotic episode?

Absolutely. But to me, when you take everything that led up to the murder, the quest for fame, the tryouts for all the different reality television shows. This guy wanted to be famous. It's all he wanted. The videos of the kittens. Now, how that's going to make you famous,

I don't know. Infamous, yes. And then the murder video, it's going to make you infamous. Well, he has to live with this for the rest of his life. Sure. Now,

is it hard for somebody like Luca Magnata? I don't know. I truly believe it's not all that hard for some of these killers. I don't think many of them, lie awake at night saying, I can't believe what I've done. Now, they might say, I can't believe I got caught, but I just don't know how much remorse some of these people have. I really don't. Yeah, I don't either. I mean, hey, you know, Luca, if you're listening and why you're sitting

up in that cell, give us a call. Let us know how you feel today. Be kind of hard not to play a voicemail from Luca Magnata, depending on what he said. Well, exactly. You know, but that's it for are two episodes on Luca Magnata. Again, like I said earlier, Gibbs, it was just a matter of time. I knew at some point we were going to do this case because I've been fascinated by it for, you know, a long time now. Yeah, I was really excited that we did it, you know, I mean, horrific, terrible murder. But the details are so intriguing. They are. Of, you know, what this guy was trying to accomplish. And the way that he went about it. To me, it was as though, okay, he's trying to get his 15 minutes of fame.

He can't make it happen. So he switches gears and he goes for the I'm going to become infamous route. Right. I'm going to do illegal things. I'm going to post them. I'm still going to be famous, but more infamous than famous. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out?

Yes, sir. Hey, you guys are doing a great job with your podcast. Keep up the good work. I listen to you guys while I drive truck at nighttime. Anyways, so I'm way far behind. I'm on Fred and Rosemary West, and I hope you get a job. I'm sure you have one by now, but good luck with that. Anyways, I got a case that I want to request, request. It is George Trapelle. He's a Mentson member, and he was accused of poisoning his neighbor for playing their music too loud. Anyways, I thought you should give Gibby a hard time with this one, because this dude's a little weird, and he is a Mentson member, him and his wife,

genius people, I accuse. Anyways, if you could do that show, or maybe you've already done it, I'm so far behind, I don't even know. But anyways, if you haven't, give it a try, man. It's a good one. Thanks. Keep up the good work and keep your own time ticking. All right, yeah, thanks for the voicemail.

don't believe we've done that when Gibbs, but we're at 259 now. And to be honest with it, it is hard to keep track. It is. I mean, I haven't written down, but just off top of my head, it's hard to keep track. What do you call two geniuses?

What do you call somebody that can't say a sentence? Yeah, well, not a genius. So what do you call two geniuses in a room? I don't know what? One too many. All right. How really funny, was it? No, I don't get it.

You have to be a genius. See, the problem is, yeah, the problem is you're so smart that I'm not operating on your same frequency. Right. So your jokes are so, they just go away over my head. I don't get them. If you didn't laugh at that, I can't be in Mensa. Exactly. Right?

Because that would probably slay in a Mensa. It would. A meeting or, uh, what do you guys, what do you guys have? I don't know. Pigs in a blanket and a chardonnay. A little shardinette. Type luncheonette or something. Lunchnet.

Oh. Hi. My name is Sandra. I've called once before, but I just called to say I'm driving home. It's like 11 o'clock at night. I work as an EMT and I'm listening to old T-Cat episodes. And I just wanted to call and thank you guys because there's not, my husband's in the Navy. And there's not many, with him being gone, there's not many people.

who I can call when I'm getting off of work at 11.30 at night and going to a home, that's going to be alone and where I'm going to be all alone because, again, my husband's gone. But driving back with you guys or blasting you guys as I'm powering through my cleaning just helped a whole lot. And it makes me feel, you know, like I'm surrounded by friends, not just not alone, not just busy, but actually around friends. And I think that's the draw. And I was listening again, some of your older episodes.

And I think the way you guys address us makes it feel like we're a group of five or 50 and close, close friends of your guys. Like, we're all just close friends. But in reality, I'm sure there are thousands and thousands and thousands of fans. And yet I'm sure you give each one of us that feeling of being right next to you and like right next to your heart. And so, yeah, long story short. Thank you guys. And I love you guys. Keep going.

Well, you were right here next to us. Yeah. That was very heartfelt. And obviously we appreciate it very much. You know, the one thing that kind of jumped into my head gives is you and I talk about service members all the time and our appreciation for them. I think, you know, what is not talked about or the folks that are not talked about enough are the husbands and wives of service members who, you know, have to spend time by themselves because their husband or wife is gone for extended periods of time. Right.

Yeah. It's a huge sacrifice for them as well. Yeah. Hi. My name is Jane. Right then. And it did a three killing back in the mid-90. Anyway.

Yeah. Sounds like a very interesting case. Yeah. Definitely one we haven't done. But one that I will make sure is on the list. So thanks for that voicemail. So Gibbs, we had nothing new in the mailbag, but I have a correction from last week's mailbag. Okay.

I said that a man sent in the wooden, slotted chair. Right. It turns out that it was our good friend Candice Wolfe who ordered it on eBay and had the seller ship it directly to us. So I just took the name off of the return address and said, oh, oh, that's who sent it to us. I still thought you just got out of your garage. No, because it was never there before, but good try. But we do appreciate Candice. And I definitely wanted to make that correction because she's a long-time listener and a really good friend of the show.

Felt really good on my rear end when I sitting on that. It did. Yeah. I saw your face light up, man. You were so happy. It's like being home again. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time.

So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.