True Crime All The Time - Marjorie Orbin

Episode Date: September 28, 2020

Marjorie Orbin was a dancer and choreographer in Las Vegas who was used to men paying a lot of attention to her. She was married six times by the time she was 34-years-old. But, the one thing she wanted most was to have a child. Jay Orbin was a successful businessman who fell head over heels for Marjorie and promised that he would pay whatever it took to get her the fertility treatments it took to have a child. But, when Jay's torso turned up in a plastic bin, the police started to question Marjorie's actions.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the life and crimes of Marjorie Orbin. Police suspected that Marjorie had killed Jay to collect on quite a bit of insurance money. All of her actions after Jay supposedly disappeared seemed to be those of a woman who knew her husband wasn't coming home. The question for police was, did Marjorie act alone or did she have help from her boyfriend?You can support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 202 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. Just good. Just good. You're always just good. I'm doing good. Never fantabulous, never over the moon. Just good. Okay. I'm over the moon. I don't believe you. My boy did turn 21. So all my kids are, you know, of over the end. age of 21 now or 21 and above. Yeah, I got it. They both mean the same thing. I'm with you, man.

They're out of the nest. I'm out of the nest. All right, we're jam packed this weekend. We are. So you and I just got done recording a Patreon episode on Richard Ortega. Yeah. Both audio and video. We went to New Mexico to talk about a couple of guys drinking in a park. Yeah. They spotted two females who they believe. had some money and they befriended them. The idea was to take their car invalubables, but it went bad in a hurry. Went real bad.

We have an episode out right now on true crime all the time unsolved. We're talking about the unsolved Chicago murders of Marilyn Green and Jerry Hillier. And I think this is a fascinating case. It really is. Kind of bizarre, you know, the ups and downs and the twist and turns. But definitely one,

if you like solve cases, it's one that you want to listen to. Yeah, because they have a number of not just suspects, not just persons of interest, people that are actually tried. Yeah. Some convicted. Yep. And then things go a little awry. A lot of rye. So I don't, I don't want to give too much away, but definitely check that out. All right, Gibbs, let's give our Patreon shoutouts, our support shout out. Let's do it. Joseph Fresquez went way above and beyond our highest level. Well, thank you, Joseph. We appreciate that. Meg's Whiteside.

Hey, Meg's. Kimberly Barone. What's happening, Barone? Colleen Haldes jumped out of our highest level. Oh, thanks, Colleen. Kat McCullough jumped out of our highest level. What's up, McCalla? Jessica Carson jumped out at our highest level.

Well, thank you, J.C. We had Katrina Walkling. The Walkling, huh? Melissa Gondek. What's up, Gondek? Jason Lafferie jumped out of our highest level. Hey, thanks, Jason. Leah Shernovitz.

She'll Novix. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And then we had Hilder Ingvar's daughter. Well, hello, Hildar. Who I know has patiently been waiting for her shadow.

She has. She really, she really has. Courtney Pickerel. Hey, Courtney. Elizabeth. What's going on, Elizabeth? Leslie McCartle. Hey, thank you, Leslie.

Joanne Harris. Well, thank you, Joanne. Nicole Aubrey jumped out to our highest level. Thanks, Nicole. As did Carrie off in camp. Offencamp. as did Sarah Scrawlhams.

Got some scrawls hands here. As did C.G. What's up C.G? And Jessica Bryant. Man, well, thanks, Jessica. So all of those people there at the end jumped out at our highest level. We really appreciate it. Now, if we go back into the Volkibs.

This week, we selected Jason K. Okay, thanks, Jason. So shout out to Jason. We appreciate the new support, the long-term support. We had some great PayPal donations as well. Aaron Baker. Hey, thanks, Aaron. Prairie Bloom designs. Well, there's some designs there for you. Andrea Papa George. Hey, Papa George. And Danuta Jones. Hey, what's up? Danuta. So thank you all as well. Yeah. All right. Are you ready to get into this episode Gibbs of True Crime all the time? Yeah,

let's do it. We're just coming off the two-parter on Eileen Warnos, which I enjoyed putting together. You know, that's a case I've always been fascinated with. Right. I was not expecting to then jump right into another female killer. Yeah. But that's what we're doing. We're talking about Marjorie Orban, a woman whose husband went missing and was later found in pieces. Well, I shouldn't say. Part of him was found.

I'll put it that way. The evidence all pointed to Marjorie and really for one of the oldest reasons. Greek, money. Special thanks goes out to Roe. Rosalie Brown for her help in the researching and writing of this episode. Marjorie Marquis was born in Boulder City, Nevada. On October 29th, 1961, she grew up in Miami, Florida and went on to become a professional dancer and choreographer.

She performed on some Disney cruises and then in Las Vegas. Gibbs, according to IMDB, she also starred in and was a choreographer in a film called no more dirty deeds. Really? Yep. Did you see that one? I would rather watch paint dry on a fence or a wall than see that. Well, I'm surprised because it looks like one of those that would be right up your alley.

I know you're always talking about those late night Cinemax movies that you love so much. Oh, yeah. So I looked it up. Here's the synopsis of this movie. A mechanic runs a foul of a group of modern day pirates when you, when he falls for a female member of a water-based criminal gang. A water-based criminal gang. Wow.

I'm guessing that probably was like a 2.0 on Rotten Tomatoes. I actually didn't look to see what the rating was. There's really no need, right? It's not a movie that you nor I are ever going to watch. I don't think anybody in our audience is going to watch. You know who does watch those movies? Young boys. Yeah.

who sang up late past their bedtime as I did when I was a youngster. Sorry, I don't even have the volume up. Probably not. No. But interesting fact, Marjorie also starred in Motley Cruz video Girls, Girls, Girls, Girls. Really? Now, that was a big song. Yeah, it was.

It was a big video. Yeah, had a lot of girls in it, though. Well, it is called Girls, Girls, Girls. Yeah, and it is Motley Crew. So you put those two things together. You're going to need a lot of girls in that video. You will. It's how it works.

And for any of you that have seen the Netflix movie about Motley crew, oh my gosh. That's pretty raunchy. Well, especially the opening. Yeah. Most people don't get through the first five minutes of that movie because they're like, what in the world am I watching? Yeah. And they're like, hey, man, it was this our life.

That's how we rolled back then. In papers later on, they described Margie as beautiful, blonde, voluptuous. She eventually became a full. full-time exotic dancer. And for a time, she was a Las Vegas showgirl. I know you always wanted to play Vegas. I did. Yeah.

I did. Not quite in that way. Right. I envisioned more of a long-term Wayne Newton act. Yeah. Maybe Tom Jones. Well, you know, funny that you brought that up. We were just talking the other day about Lloyds of London, how they insured different

body parts for people. Mm-hmm. And on that list. they used to ensure Tom Jones's chest hair. I don't know what. In case it caught on fire, in case it was ripped out accidentally. I know he liked to wear those shirts a button a little bit. He did.

He did. That big old gold chain, you know, hanging down there. He had all the women throwing their undergarments at him on stage. Yeah. He was a player. Maybe that chest hair, you know, pays off for some people. So quit shaving that chest hair. Just let it, you know.

Just go all natural, Tom Jones. Yeah. Yeah. Here's the part I don't understand. Wouldn't it just grow back? So you're telling me he collects the insurance money, and then it's just going to grow back and he's going to have it again. I guess.

I don't know how that works. I don't know what that policy, how that policy would have read. Like, hey, for whatever reason you can never have chest hair again, we're going to pay you. Maybe it's based on how bushy chest hair. Don't know. Oh, all right. path already, aren't we? So when Marjorie was 24 years old, she was a stripper at a club in Las Vegas,

she made friends with one of the club regulars, a man named Jay Orban. He was 26 years old. And according to Marjorie, Jay fell head over heels in love with her. They went on a date, but Marjorie didn't really see them as a match. She was interested in traveling. I really think Gibbs, she had her heart set. on a glamorous life. Right.

And she was working towards either figuring out a way to provide that for herself or finding a mate who could give that to her. And I think she thought Jay was a really nice guy, but he wasn't at that point in his life at a financial station that would make him attractive to Marjorie. Right. He just wasn't wealthy. And he lived in Phoenix. which I don't think was on her top 10 places to want to live.

Yeah, she's already in Vegas. I mean, not much difference between Vegas and Phoenix. I don't really think. I spent time in both of them. Really, except for maybe the nightlife and the gambling and the climate wise, man. It's still like hot.

Yeah, if you're just talking climate, but there's a big difference between Vegas and Phoenix when it comes to what's going on. I actually like Phoenix a lot. Yeah. So shortly after this date, they had the one day, didn't really go the way that probably either of them had hoped it would.

Marjorie returned home to Florida, where she met a man who could provide her with the kind of lifestyle she wanted. This guy's name was Michael J. Peter. He was a multi-millionaire. He made his living creating upscale strip clubs. So you can kind of imagine how the two probably met. Sure. At one point, she not only worked for,

Michael, but she moved in with him. Sleeping with the help. I would say not normally a great idea. Normally, what is it? Don't dip your ink in company. I think it's don't dim your pen in the company ink. But you shouldn't dip your ink in the company pen either. Yeah, that's not good.

It can never be good with that. That's going to be messy as shit. Yeah, not good. They were together almost 10 years. They were engaged at one point. But here's what I think big problem was. Marjorie was used to being the center of attention. She attracted a lot of attention from men, but Michael was a very successful businessman. He was rich. So he attracted a lot of attention

from women. And that was something that Marjorie couldn't deal with. She later admitted that her jealousy spiraled. So in 1993, they broke up and she moved back to Las Vegas. That's got to be kind of rough, you know, because normally in her world, she's the one that everybody's coming after. But now you've got the guy that actually owns the clubs. And guess what? Those girls that work with those clubs, find somebody like him fascinating because he's got all the money and he can provide similar lifestyle that she wanted. He can provide that for anybody.

So he doesn't need to have her, depend on what he wants out of life, right? I'm saying if he's looking for a relationship, you know, one with the heart, that's different. But if he's just looking to have somebody to have fun with, you know, to go on trips with, he can find anybody. And that probably drove her crazy. I think it did. I think that's what ultimately broke them up. So at this point in time, Marjorie was 34 years old.

She'd been married six times. And I haven't talked about them. You have to think for nearly 10 years, she was in a relationship with this guy. Right. Michael. So we can't detail out all of the marriages, but it's pretty safe to say that most of them would have taken place by the time she was like 24 years old. Yeah, that's a lot of maybe quickie Vegas marriages. Made a mistake.

Annulment. Well, they are in Vegas, so maybe there was a lot of, you know, drunk nights. I love you, you love me. Let's go get married at the little White Chapel church thing. Yeah, I'm picturing hangover. Yeah. Like a hangover type wedding. Just a repeat every year for six years.

Maybe. But she's back in Vegas, which seemed to be a place where she could make some good money. And she wasn't performing in the C-Dier strip club. She was now performing as a Las Vegas showgirl. And her photo was included in one of those light-up banners on the Vegas strip. You know what that's like, Gibbs. Oh, absolutely. I know a lot of people have emailed.

then that they recognized you walking the Vegas strip. Yeah. There was a picture of you. Of course, you were going by your stage name Rex West, but there's posters all over Vegas. Good times out there, man. Miss that. This COVID really hurt me this year.

It would not be able to get out there and do any of those. Well, your income is going to be way down. It will be, way, way down. But a man from her past, Jay Orban, The nice guy from 10 years earlier saw her photo, saw where she was performing and tracked her down. He went to one of her performances and found her afterwards. They went on what would be their second date. 10 years later, at least 10 years later, they stayed up all night talking.

Now, Jay still lived in Phoenix, but he had worked hard. And by this time, he had a successful Native American. art dealership called Jayhawk International. He traveled the country, selling turquoise jewelry, maps, feathers, dolls, and bows and Arabs. Jay returned to Phoenix the next day, but their relationship continued long distance for a little while. And Marjorie would later say, yeah, they had their differences, but they clicked where it really mattered. Jay wanted a wife and child more than anything, and while Marjorie having been married six times by then also seemed to be looking for something. We don't know exactly what she was looking for, but obviously she was looking for something

to get married six times. I think the problem for her was she just couldn't have a child. No, she couldn't. That was something that she learned, you know, at 18 years of age. So she told Jay, hey, you know, I know you want a child. that's something that I can't give you, Jay told her that if she would move to Phoenix and marry him, he would pay for any and all medical treatments that might be required for her to try to conceive. And while she wasn't overly excited about the idea of moving to Phoenix, the prospect of becoming a mother

was very important to Marjorie. So she ended up joining Jay in Phoenix and they got engaged. I guess Gibbs, when Jay's mother met her son's new fiance, she was not too happy. Imagine that. She did not like her soon to be daughter-in-law, not one bit. She found her brash, flashy, loud, and said she was very shallow. There's a lot of mother-in-laws out there. Who would say that about all of, anyone that no one is good enough for my son. There are some mother-in-laws, I think that.

There's a lot of them out there that feel that way. Yeah, I agree with you. I think it's the old, no one is good enough for my baby boy type deal. But I'm not sure that's what this was. I think they all have some vision of what they think their future daughter-in-law should look like or be like. Yeah, I would say not so much look like, but be like, act like. And for Jay's mom, Marjorie wasn't it? You know, bottom line.

But in fairness to her, it just wasn't her that felt this way, too. No, actually, Jay's friends pretty much thought the same thing. When they first met Marjorie, they said they weren't matched at all. I mean, the pairing was like a total mismatch. Jay was down to earth and kind. Gibbs, he was that kind of give the shirt off his back type of guy. Yeah. That's what his friend said.

Marjorie, they said, she came off as someone. one much different. Right. We don't want to say she's a gold digger. But we're saying she's a gold digger. Yeah. Because I'm pretty sure that's what they said. Yeah.

But you just wanted to throw some song lyrics in there. I did. I liked it. Yeah. I liked it. Trying to reach that younger crowd. Really reaching. Really reaching.

The only thing that would have made it better is if you'd actually sung it. I thought about it. People are really wanting to hear those pipes that you're always talking about. I thought about doing that. The other thing that Jay's friend said about Marjorie was she, definitely had Jay wrapped around her finger. She was able to get him to do whatever she wanted. Yeah. Well, that was obvious when he went pretty quick to, hey, come live with me, marry me, and I'll do all this for you. Pretty quick into the relationship. Yeah, he did. And, you know,

I think it was the promises of the medical treatments. I think it was the, you know, Jay's stance of, I'll do whatever it takes to make you happy. Do whatever it takes to help you conceive a child. It all paid off. I mean, really not long after Marjorie moved to Phoenix, they eloped. So it was all a very quick kind of whirlwind type deal.

And it wasn't long. Before she was pregnant with their son, whom they named Noah, Marjorie would go on to call Noah their miracle baby. And I get that. You know, someone being told, you know what, I'm sorry to have to say this to you, but you'll never conceive. And here you are actually doing it. Yep.

Yeah. So I get that. You would consider that, you know, a miracle baby. And I know, we've got some listeners. I've heard them talk about on social media and stuff like that, that's occurred to them where they said they would never be able to have a child. And, you know, then they have twins, you know, or whatever. But there's several people out there.

it's mentioned that. It's amazing. Yeah. No, it really is. Now, the thing about Jay was that he traveled a lot for business. You know, it really wasn't unusual for him to be on the road three weeks out of the month. That's a lot of traveling. That's a whole lot of traveling.

It's way more than what I would ever want to do. One day a month would be more than what I'd like to do. Yeah, you're not a person that wants to hit the road. Hit the road. I don't even want to leave this house, dude. I don't even want to drive down to the grocery. You don't, man. You do not.

But even though he traveled a lot for business, everyone that knew him said that Jay was a very involved in loving father on August 26, 2004, Noah turned eight years old. And the family celebrated by having a birthday party. Shortly after the party ended, Jay left for a business trip to Florida. Then on September 8th, as he was driving back into Phoenix, Jay and his mother had a short telephone call. It was his 45th birthday. But that's the last time his mom would ever speak to Jay. A week or so went by, no one in Jay's family had heard from him. His friends hadn't heard from him. And everyone agreed. This was not like Jay at all. I think Gibbs especially because he wasn't on the road.

Right. He was home. Right. Celebrating his birthday. He should have been celebrating his 45th birthday. So to not reach out to any friends, family, not reply to probably birthday wishes, people are going to start to really get concerned. So, you know, Jay's mom was calling Marjorie, asking where Jay was. And his mom has said that Marjorie told her she was overreacting. Her story was that Jay had come home from Phoenix on his birthday and then really almost immediately left on another business trip. But Jay's mom wasn't buying it because Jay was the type of son that would call his mom, you know, several times a week. Yeah, three, four times a week at least, right? So moms know, right? If they're used to getting a call from someone two, three, four times a week, now all of a sudden a lot of times going by and you're not hearing from your son, you're getting

worried. You're getting real word. Yeah. Another week passed. And then Jay's friends started pestering Margie. They wanted her to call the police. She didn't want to at first. No.

She finally had to give in because they told her, we're keep calling you. We're going to keep calling you and calling you until you do. Yeah, Jay's friends just would not stop pestering her. So she had to give in, finally. Jan Butcher of the missing persons unit took the case. And according to Detective Butcher, during Marjorie's initial call, she asked her to provide the license plate of the car that Jay was driving. Marjorie said she would get it and call her back, but she never did. It's not good.

It doesn't look good. No, it doesn't look good. because I think everybody listening can put themselves in Marjorie shoes. Okay, if you're really worried that your husband's missing. Right. Now, I don't think she was and we'll, for reasons, we'll find out later. But let's say you were. Exactly.

And you finally reached out to detectives. Detective said, hey, get us this information because it'll help assist us. you would literally probably not even hang up the phone. You'd go get it or immediately. Immediately you would get it and call back because it's the only thing on your mind right now. Right. You're not putting it off. You're not going to play Canasta.

Right. And then come back and say, oh, you know what? I forgot to get that license plate. Silly me. I'll wait till the morning. Yeah. But also if you're going to try to be this criminal mastermind, you don't want the spotlight on you. Wouldn't you still want to do?

that show that you're cooperative? That's a great point. That's a great point. Now, obviously, Marjorie's the title of this episode for a reason. If you knew you did something that you shouldn't have done. Yeah. Don't you want to play the perfect spouse? Don't you want to do everything that the police or the friends or the mother-in-law think you should be doing as the good spouse? Ows. Right. Doesn't make any sense, right? To kind of brush it off and,

and be so cavalier about, eh, whatever. Yeah. Judge Judy's on. I might get it later. Maybe. Maybe not.

I don't know how important it really is. Is it really important? I don't think so. So Detective Butcher called Marjorie over the course of the next few days, and she had to leave a bunch of messages. And after her third message, she finally got a call back from, Marjorie, the detective taped the call. And in this call, Detective Butcher said to Marjorie,

it feels like you're avoiding talking to us. And Marjorie responded that she was surprised to hear that. I don't know why she was surprised. Yeah. I mean, if you don't return call after call from the agency that's supposed to be looking for your missing husband. What do you think they're going to think? Yeah, that you're trying to avoid us. But, Marjorie went on to drop a bombshell and she told the detective that she and her husband, Jay, got divorced in 1997 for tax reasons, but they remained living together as husband and what?

So she said to the detective, just because I'm not hysterical doesn't mean I'm not concerned. Okay. I get that. You don't have to be hysterical on the phone. I think what you should be is responsive. Yeah. To the agency that's trying to help you out.

For the agency, for the child that you had with him, right? I mean, I'm sure your son would like to know where's dad at. What's going on with dad? So after this bombshell, we put it all in perspective, right? They got married in 1995. Noah was born in 1996. By 1997, they were legally divorced. And that was true.

She wasn't lying about that to the. detective. But when you look at the timing of those events, it really seems to lend some credence to Jay's family. Yeah. His mother, his friends, everyone who was kind of suggesting that, you know, something with this union is a little off. You know, I think especially his friends thought this wasn't love. This was almost like a business transaction on the part of. And Marjorie, we said they kind of called her a gold digger. Yeah, I mean, it does appear to be like a business deal. Now, normally when you think of somebody being a gold digger, they're out for money. In this situation, it was almost as if, okay, yeah, she was maybe after some of his money because

he had some. Right. But what she really wanted was a baby. Well, and to get that baby, you had to have money to pay all those bills. So then in the day, gold digger. And then, it was as if, okay, once the baby came, well, she didn't need Jay anymore, although Gibbs, it really wouldn't hurt to have his money. Makes life easier. What Marjorie didn't know at that time was that she was already on police's radar. Even though they were looking at this as a missing person's case, detectives started to see that Marjorie was burning through Jay's money. She bought a $12,000 baby grand piano. I think at that point she'd already taken like $45,000 from Jay's business account. It's a red flag. Well, it's a red flag when you don't know what's happened to your husband.

Okay. Is he going to be back in a few days a week? And then I'm going to have to explain why I took out $45,000. Well, you know who doesn't have to worry about being asked questions like that? A person who knows her husband's not coming back. Exactly. And I think it was the timing of all of it. When police looked at the fact that the spending began on September 9th, that was the day after Jay disappeared. Yeah, convenient. Yeah. So you're telling me you're just going to start blowing through your husband's cash the day after he doesn't come home, you know something's up. Right. At that point. And you're kind of giving yourself away. You know, Jay had been, built a very solid business. He was successful. And I think Margie was going to keep living the

lifestyle she'd been living, whether Jay was there or not. So at one point, she's on the phone with the detective. And Marjorie was asked to come down to the station for a polygraph test. The detective heard Marjorie say to someone in the background, she wants me to come in for a polygraph tomorrow. But in the background, the detective heard a male voice say, you tell her to go fuck herself. Yeah. Yeah. Red flag? Another red flag.

I think it's definitely a red flag. So who's the male voice? Well, it turns out that it belonged to a guy named Larry Wiseberg, who happened to be Marjorie's boyfriend. And again, you have to look at the timing. Her husband's been gone. He's missing for just a few weeks. Yes, they may be divorced, but they've been living in the same house. You're telling me you're just going to move your boyfriend in while the search for your husband is going on.

We don't know where he's at yet. We haven't found him. We don't know anything. But you don't care. You have some guy there. Well, you can look at it a couple different ways. Okay. Did Marjorie move on?

A little hard to move on in a couple of weeks. Yeah. That's a little tough. I mean, I get it. They're divorced. But according to her, it was for tax reasons only. It'd be like you saying, hey, honey, tax accountant says that it's best we get divorce. And then she goes on a trip.

She goes back and you're like, meet our new roommate, Sheila, it's not going to go over well. If her husband or her ex-husband because of the divorce shows back up and she's got somebody named Larry living there, how well is that going to go over? No, not well. Not well at all. So like I said, Gibbs, either she's moved on, which is kind of strange for the reasons you just pointed out, or she has this secret affair that for a very specific reason, no longer needs to be a secret, right? If Jay is out of the picture, then why keep it a secret? No need to keep it a secret.

But either way, at this point, the secret's out. So based on that call, Detective Butcher got a search warrant. and this wouldn't be just any search warrant. At least the execution of it wouldn't be. She asked the SWAT team to deliver it. You want to do that SWAT theme song from the movie, don't you? From what movie? Swat.

So SWAT ends up breaking down the door of Marjorie's home. A male at the house confronts them. This guy's ready for a fight, according to police officers. It's Larry Warker. It's Larry. It's Larry. It's probably married to Karen. And my other brother, Daryl. Yeah. He doesn't comply to anything that the officers tell him. So they tase him. That's the best time, man, right there. And he goes down like a ton of bricks. Yeah. Anytime I think about somebody getting tased, I go to the hangover. Yeah. That scene where they're letting the kids tase those guys. Great, man. And one of them gets hit in the face. I can't wait until we. do that episode where we're going to tase each other. It's going to be great. Yeah, we got to work my

my way up to that. Yeah, I go first, though. That's fine. I just need to make sure it actually happens that you get tased because I know I'm going to get tased regardless. Yeah, that's fine, because I guarantee you whatever I use will be purchased from a special website and will be like 10 times more powerful than any taser you have. Is it going to be like these chairs again? You know, you have the better. Yeah. Now, this time it will be different. I'll have the better taser. no arrests were made, but the search uncovered something very important. Detectives found Jay Orban's credit cards. They found his business checkbook, just sitting in plain sight at the house.

So I'm sure the question that went through their mind was, okay, if Jay's on a business trip, wouldn't he take some of this stuff with him? You would think. Don't you need your business credit cards if you're going to go on a trip? Yeah, especially if you're that concern about tax. I think at that point, the detectives were certain, right? Jay wasn't on a business trip. Something bad had happened to them. The problem is they just didn't have enough to go on. They had their hunches, but that's all they had. That was until October 23rd, 2004,

because on that day, in the desert just outside Phoenix, a transient who lived in the area came upon a plastic bin that was wrapped in heavy black plastic. And when he pried open the container, he discovered a human torso. There must have been quite a shock. Yeah. You know, you're thinking, oh, a container. What goodies might be in here? Right. No goodies. No, not what you expect to see. A human torso. Now, I've seen this word torso used in a lot of articles. I've also seen where some of article said it was technically like the rib cage down to around the knees. So it just depends on who makes that statement. Right. Yeah. And what you consider torso. But but either way, right, it's, it's gruesome. There's definitely arms, legs, head, all of that's missing. Also inside the

bin was a wad of cash and a 38 caliber spent bullet. You know, so obviously, you know, obviously, this bullet had been fired. Right. When the detectives learned about the torso in the desert, they knew right away that this was probably Jay and that their missing person's case was over because there were car keys found in the pants that fit the ignition of Jay's car. And then later DNA would confirm that the torso belonged to Jay Orban. So basically about 45 days.

after his birthday, here's his torso. They're able to confirm that it's him. I'm imagining things are going to get really heated up. You would be correct because, you know, you go from a missing person's case to it being turned over to homicide. The Maricopa County Coroner officially declared Jay's cause of death an undetermined homicide. And Detective David Barnes took over the murder investigation. And you said the heat's going to get turned up.

and it's going to get turned up on Marjorie. I mean, they're already on her. They believe she knows what happened to Jay. Once they find the body, they're even more certain. Well, she's blowing through Jay's money. We know she's having a intimate relationship with someone else, Larry. And on top of that, she wasn't even concerned about where's Jay. She just had no concern whatsoever.

No, because she already knew where Jay was. Right. But if you had any brains at all, why would you give that away? Exactly. That's the part that, you know, for me is hard to understand. Authorities believe that the motive for Jay's murder was money. But they also thought that Marjorie needed his body to be found so that she could get a death certificate issued and get access to his estate. And I think to back up what the police were thinking. okay, the body was dumped just outside of town. There was really no effort to hide it, right? Somebody was going to stumble upon it. It was just a matter of time. And Marjorie would have needed that. Because if not, then she's probably waiting, what, maybe at least a year to have

Jay declared legally dead before she can really get full access to his estate. I mean, that's what happened to Carol Baskins if you go back to Tiger King. Yeah. I think it took her a year. You're probably watching her on Dancing of the Stars, aren't you? Is she on Dancing with the Stars? She is. I didn't even see that.

I haven't watched about her. She's on there. I'm surprised because, again, this is the same thing I thought after watching Tiger King. If I was her, I would stay out of the spotlight. Right. She did not come across looking really great. I think her first dance was to the Eye of the Tiger. Was it really?

I think so. Yeah. That's good stuff right there. I might have to watch it just for that. Yeah. But Margie's really not the smartest person is she? No, she really wasn't. You know, three weeks after the body was discovered, she was caught forging J signature

at a circuit city store. I miss Circuit City. I used to go to Circuit City a lot. Yeah. It was a good store. Now, she claimed that she was replacing computers and equipment that police had confiscated, and she claimed she didn't know it was illegal. Didn't know it was illegal, huh?

So going back to your point of maybe she's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Brightest Baldwin house. Is that the saying? It's my saying. Okay. She was the beneficiary for insurance policies totaling $1 million. But Marjorie was not authorized to use. Jay's credit cards. A fact that she didn't seem to understand. She had already admitted they

weren't legally married anymore. She just couldn't seem to put it together that she wasn't allowed to sign his name on legal documents or credit card slips. The police detained her and they decided that they were going to push her on the murder. But they also had her on fraud charges. So they could hold her and book her on those regardless of the murder. Yeah, they were sitting in a pretty good position. I think so. While they were interrogating her, they pulled out a photo of the torso and the bin, and they asked her point blank, where is the rest of Jay? This question sent her into hysterics. She totally shut down. She wouldn't discuss Jay or his disappearance or murder. So they didn't get anywhere on that. So police ended up booking her on credit card fraud. And you know Gibbs, the police were hoping that

they could get her to crack on the murder, but didn't work. She made bail later that same night. But investigators weren't going to stop, right? They kept digging and they found some receipts for mops and cleaning products. Yeah, that happened to be purchased the day after Jay went missing. So a couple of things happened, right? the day after Jay went missing. She started siphoning off a bunch of money. Yeah. She also went out.

She bought mops, cleaning supplies. None of this is looking good. What it did was it led to a theory by police that Jay was killed in the garage, Marjorie acid washed the garage floor and then put a coat of epoxy on it to erase all traces of blood. I've never actually heard of that. heard of that, but if you think about it, sounds kind of smart. Because we know how hard it is to completely get rid of blood. Right. But if you put a coat of epoxy on the entire garage floor,

you're selling those pores up in that concrete. How are they getting to it? Yeah. How are they getting to the blood to swab it, find it? Hmm. Don't say, hmm, like that's an idea that you're going to use later on. Just intriguing. That's all I'm saying. I get it. but the way you said it was like, yep, writing that one down. Just because I'm typing it in my laptop right now doesn't mean anything. But then they hit another jackpot because police found surveillance footage of Marjorie at a low store on September 10th buying plastic bins. Again, this is where she's not a criminal mastermind because you wouldn't do this

if you were really thinking about what your end game is. No, no, because Jay's found in a plastic bin. Yeah. You know that at least on some level, the police are going to be looking at you as a person of interest at the very least. Sure. I mean, you think they're not smart enough to go around to Lowe's, Home Depot, places like that and look at surveillance footage? Yeah, and they're going to look and see who sold those bins that he was found in anyway. Right.

Hell, for all I know, they probably still had the UPC on them. They were able to track it to a Lowe's. I didn't see that in the research, but... She didn't have the receipts taped to it with their name. Yeah. Forged on the thing. Because that's another interesting aspect of the purchase. Not only did she buy these bins,

she used Jay Orbins' American Express card to pay for them. Yeah. Used his own car. to buy the bins that she was going to dispose of his body. Additional evidence included the discovery of Jay's Green Ford Bronco, less than a mile from their home. And this was found two days after his torso was found. Three different witnesses told police that a woman who looked like Marjorie was seen around the Bronco after September 8th. Detective Barnes found a package of jigsaw blades.

with two missing at Jay's place of business. So again, that on its own doesn't prove anything, but... It doesn't help anything either on her side. No, it doesn't help because they know that Jay had to have been dismembered by something. Now, thinking out loud, Gibbs, if I was going to dismember a body, jigsaw is not the first tool that I would reach for. I'm not saying you couldn't do it with a jigsaw, but jigsaw blade. aren't normally that big, that thick.

A lot of them don't protrude that far down. Right. Well, you should always use a sawzaw. A sawzaw. It's cool. A circular saw. Yeah. Might work if you had a big enough blade.

Right. A big old chop saw. I mean, we're not telling people how to dismember bodies. I'm just saying jigsaw. Not saying, yeah, and I'm not saying you couldn't do it. Maybe that's all she had. Yeah. Or whoever had.

We're going to talk about that. So they have some evidence, but it really wasn't enough to say, aha, right? Gotcha. Smoking gun. You did it. We know you did it. They got a lot of things that don't make Marjorie Orban look good. The other thing that police were concerned with was, did Marjorie do this alone?

And I think for that, they went back to Larry Weisberg. Okay. Why is he at the house, right? you talked about that. Larry was a production technician that Marjorie had met at her gym. She was definitely sleeping with him, but police had to figure out, you know, did he have a role in this murder? Because one of the big questions was, could Marjorie Orban really have killed and disposed

of Jay, who was quite a bit larger than she was. He's around 250 pounds. Yeah. At trial, the defense. team argued he was 260, but yeah, 250, 260, he was a large dude. Could she have done all of that without help? It seems pretty unlikely. I agree. Not saying it couldn't be done. She could have definitely killed him. I think where people started to really wonder was when it came to the disposal of the body. Could she have done all of that by herself or would she have needed some help? So police started to look

into Larry. You know, they thought it was pretty suspicious that he was living in Jay's home, even before Jay's body was found. We already talked about that. When they executed a search warrant on Larry's house, they discovered the remote control to Jay's garage. Which doesn't mean. It doesn't mean anything on its own. That's the thing. All of this evidence so far, again, none of it is really a smoking gun. It's just a bunch of things. things that don't look good. Starts tying some things together. But because of this find, a theory started to be floated by investigators.

And it was that Jay had come home on his birthday, expecting to be greeted by his family, as anyone would. They theorized that Larry had used his remote to open up the garage. And then however it happened, he was attacked in his garage and killed. there. Gibbs, the other thing that detective started finding out was, you know, when they started talking to Marjorie's friends, they found out that Marjorie had been bad-mouthing Jay quite a bit. Yeah. She really didn't have any good things to say about him.

But she was pretty vocal, not only to friends, but also just casual acquaintances. I mean, it was like she made it a point to talk bad about him. Yeah. Yeah. Not just. like BFFs, right? Right. Somebody she would meet at the hair salon. She would bad mouth Jay. So detectives are trying to figure out who's responsible for Jay's murder.

They're pretty sure Marjorie had something to do with it. They're not sure if they can prove that Larry did. The thought I think was Larry and Marjorie were in love. Marjorie wanted to get Jay out of the way. And if they killed him, they could collect quite a bit of money and live off that together. But you've got to be able to prove that. You do.

But they were sure enough about Marjorie that on December 6th, 2004, she was taken into police custody and charged with first degree murder and two counts of fraud and theft. As soon as Marjorie's in custody, though, she is singing like a bird. Yeah, but normally when you think about somebody singing, you think, okay, they're confessing to the crime. No, not Marjorie. she's pointing the finger at Larry Wiseburg. She claimed that Larry was the one responsible for killing Jay.

His motivation, according to Marjorie, was that he wanted her all to himself. And the only reason she didn't come forward and tell the authorities was because Larry had threatened to kill her son if she told anyone. So let's dissect that a little bit. Yeah. He's so in love with her that he's willing to kill Jay to have. her all to himself. But at the same time, if you tell anybody about it, I'm going to kill your son. Doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense, right? In every, in almost every one of these cases that we do,

the suspects, the things they say, it's like they're tripping themselves up. Right. Because I get it. You're trying to pin it on Larry, but you have to come up with an explanation as to why you didn't go to police right away. Okay. Your explanation is that you were threatened or your son's life was threatened. But those two seem totally out of sync. They don't go together. Why would you want to be together forever with someone who said they were going to kill your son? Exactly. Doesn't make any sense. But we know she's not even thinking about all this the right way because she used his credit cards. Yeah. Okay. I see what you're saying. It's not like. Like she had everything thought out, planned out to the nth degree.

She wasn't real smart about what she did. No. I think the problem detectives had Gibbs is they just could not connect Larry with any degree of certainty to the murder. They probably had their suspicions. So the prosecution offered him immunity so that he would testify against Marjorie. Sounds very similar to the Patreon video case that we just. did. It really does. Where a person got immunity. But it's a good call for the prosecution,

because if you can't get him, there's no way to get him. And you know she's the bigger fish. And you don't have the smoking gun per se on her. You need Larry. Yeah. To secure guarantee or close to guarantee a conviction of Marjorie. I get it. Marjorie maintained that she was only guilty of covering up the murder after the fact. And we cover a lot of cases Gibbs. Marjorie Orban is not the first murderer to try to shift the blame onto someone else. Almost all of them do. Yeah, that's what they're good at. At one point, Marjorie instructed her defense attorney not to try and strike a deal with the prosecution. She absolutely said she would not take a plea deal because there was no way she would ever allow her son to hear that she could have done something terrible to his father.

Now, I don't know what the likelihood was that the prosecution was going to even offer her a deal, especially when they had Larry. Yeah, I think there was any reason why they'd have to offer one up. And he had immunity. He was going to spill the beans for sure. During the trial, the prosecution said that Marjorie hated Jay and that she had only been with him. so that she could conceive a child. They painted her as a desperate stripper.

That's the way they talked about her. Yeah. While painting Larry as, you know, kind of this boy toy, this scapegoat that Marjorie used, they had quite a bit of evidence, but I will say it was pretty much all circumstantial. Which makes it a tough case to get a conviction on, but it still happens. Oh, it does. It happens all the time. The state laid out its theory.

of the crime as this. Jay came home. Marjorie took his gun from his briefcase, shot him in the garage while their son slept upstairs. She then used two jigsaw blades to cut him up. Now, investigators never found the gun. They never found the jigsaw blades. So again, that's evidence that you don't have. So you can say all day long, this is the way we think it happened, but you don't have. But you don't have. have the physical evidence to back that up. The prosecutor told the jury that Marjorie wrapped Jay up like little presents in plastic and tape. Like you were wrapping up a present for the holidays. The holidays. Yeah. They said that in the weeks after Jay disappeared, Marjorie cleaned out his bank accounts to the tune of about $200,000. They also presented evidence in the form of Jay's

computer logs, credit card, cell phone records that showed he had made it back to his hometown before he disappeared. And I think that was important, right? They had to establish the fact that he made it home because how else would Marjorie have had the opportunity to kill him? He couldn't be still off in another state on his way back home from the business trip. During the trial, a former cellmate of Marjorie's name Sophia Johnson testified that Marjorie used to talk about how much Jay disgusted her, how fatty was. And one day, she just came out and said she killed him. You think by now everybody out there would learn if you're guilty and you're sitting in a prison cell with anybody, you just don't talk about what you're in there for, you know? It's going to come

back and be used against you. Yeah, above all else, to a person. that's incarcerated because they're going to try to leverage that into something good for themselves. Yeah. I don't get it. Now, I also think there are a lot of people that say, that people say things that maybe they didn't say. Oh, sure. Because how do you disprove it?

There's two people in a cell. How do you disprove the fact that she said this to Sophia Johnson? But she went on to say that Marjorie said, Jay was shot. frozen, thought, and then dismembered. Now, one thing that was smart on the prosecutor's part is that they were quick to mention to the jury that Sophia did not receive anything in return for her testimony. And I think that's important. They couldn't say the same thing about Larry, right? Because they had given him immunity. The thing with Larry, though, was that he really didn't drop the hammer. You know, at trial, he didn't offer up any bombshells.

The only thing that he really said was that Marjorie was desperate to get away from Jay and that after his remains were found, she became desperate to get out of town. But he didn't say that Marjorie killed Jay. He didn't say that he helped her, you know, dismember the body, dispose of it. He didn't say anything like that. Right. Marjorie didn't take the stand. but her former boyfriend Michael J. Peter did testify on her behalf.

He said he'd asked her to leave Jay and moved to Las Vegas with her son, promising her that all her needs would be taken care of. According to him, Marjorie said she could never separate her son from his father. Her defense team focused on countering the prosecution's theory by saying, there was no way Marjorie could have done this, right? We talked about this. Her defense attorney said, how could a 130-pound woman lift Jay's 260-pound body by herself?

Then he pointed his finger at Larry Weisberg. Yeah. Who- The big bodybuilder? Yeah, who I haven't mentioned yet. They met at a gym. He was a big guy. He was a bodybuilder. Essentially, you know, telling the jury, Marjorie couldn't have done it, but this guy

could. Right. This trial lasted eight months for a number of different reasons. There were stops. There were starts. There were attorneys who dropped out, new attorneys came in. But in the end, the jury deliberated for about seven hours before finding Marjorie Orban guilty. And she was ultimately sentenced to life in prison.

Jay's family members were grateful after the decision. They said that they never wanted Marjorie to receive a death sentence. And they also said that Jay wouldn't have wanted that either. Following her conviction, Marjorie appealed. In 2011, the appeals court filed their response. In her appeal, she claimed that the trial judge had failed to give appropriate instructions to the jury and that he had a loud testimony that should have been excluded from the trial. The court deemed that there was no error. And they stated that the defendant's proposed jury instruction was an incorrect statement of law and would have misled the jury. Marjorie also tried to

call into question the lead homicide detective, Detective David Barnes. And I didn't mention this, but during the trial, it was about three months into the trial. Right. I think it was another reason it got delayed. This guy was placed on Lee because he was involved in a criminal investigation. But the court deemed that the criminal investigation was completely independent of her case. It was immaterial. At the end of the day, her conviction stood. Yeah. She brought up points, but the court didn't buy any of them. So as we're wrapping up, Gibbs, you know, Marjorie continues to proclaim her innocence, but she still believes in love. She's apparently featured on a website called writeyprisoner.com.

Okay. She says she's a Scorpio, that she spends her time teaching aerobics, reading, watching trashy TV. She avoids drama and she misses romance. It sounds like she's got a lot of activities going on there in that prison. Yeah. She likes long walks on the beaches and Pena Colada's in the rain. Yeah, yeah, there you go. Yeah.

So I know you're single, she's single. Make it happen, Cap'all. happen. Right ofprisoner.com. Maybe there's more to come in the story of Marjorie Orban. Maybe she'll get married. But for now, she's serving her sentence of life without the possibility of parole at the Arizona State Prison Complex in Perryville. I think for me, Gibbs, I don't have any doubt that Marjorie was involved in her husband's murder. I think the question I have is, did she do it a lot? I think, alone. Could she have done it alone? Or did she have some help? Or did her boyfriend, Larry Wiseberg, have a hand in it? But we're never going to know that part because he jumped on that immunity train.

He did. And what I thought was strange was that he didn't really offer much up. I mean, she still was convicted. But it, from my understanding, really wasn't based on what he had to say. Yeah, I think they were hoping that he would come out saying that he helped her somehow, right? But he still didn't. And maybe he didn't. Maybe there was another person. Or maybe she did it herself. I'm not putting it past any woman.

Yeah. Determined enough to be able to kill someone, dismember them. You know, could she lift a torso? Probably. Yeah. Could she put it in a bin, get it in a car? Yeah. There's always a, there's a will. There's a way. Could she dispose of the, the other body pieces and the, and the saw blades and the gun? Sure. Any woman, I think, could, could do that. But that's it. That's it for the story of Marjorie Orban. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out. Let's hear them. Hi, Mike and Giddy. This is Tiffany from Atlanta. I just want to say, thank you guys so much for doing what you do. I have been listening since 2017. And it always brings joy when I see the.

the little notification pop-up that says that there's a new episode on Sunday. Just one quick thing. My fiance thinks it's super weird that I enjoy listening to True Crime Podcasts, but I do find comfort knowing that a lot of people who listen to the show also say the same thing about their significant others. And thank you again for just bringing awareness. I do feel like I am more safe. I try to keep my head on a slivel, as Mike says. And yeah, just thank you guys so much. I hope that you are both staying well and safe now more than ever. And I hope that I hope that. hope that all of the listeners are staying safe and healthy as well. Take care and keep your own time ticking. Well, maybe you think what he listens to is strange and weird. What does he listen to?

How to organize my man shed? That could be weird. Yeah, I don't know what he listens to. Nees to listen to true crime is what he needs to listen to. But we do hear that a lot. And to the point where you and I have been doing this so long, we've heard it so often. It's pretty routine now. Oh, yeah. That, you know, quite a few women are into true crime. Their husbands are not. Now, a lot of women are bringing their husbands around. Oh, sure.

We've met quite a few of them at CrimeCon and in different places. And we've got a lot of guy listeners out there. And we do. We do have a lot of male listeners as well. But it's not strange for, you know, a woman to be into true crime. And maybe the husband to not be into it and think, I wonder why she's into true crime. I wonder why she's always watching that on TV or listening to it on the podcast

and why is she always sharpening her knives around me like that? And why is she paying special attention to the ones where they get away? Right. And why am I standing on top of this plastic on the carpet? I don't know. Hi, Mike and KB. This is Bree from L.A. I just wanted to call and say that I love you guys.

I just started listening to your podcast like a month and a half ago. I love it. I love you guys. I am Team Gibby. Sorry, Mike, because I feel like we are connected. We're kind of like the same kind of like dingy a little bit, you know. That's what my family calls me anyways. But I just want to say thanks for all you do.

I'm definitely more aware of my surroundings because of listening to your podcast. I've talked to my kids. I have three little ones. So you guys will definitely open my eyes too a lot. So thank you guys and keep your own time ticking. Bye. She's called me dingy. She called you dingy.

Or her family called her and I dingy. No. Her family called her dingy and she looked me into that. Okay. All right. Well, but I'm school with it. I'm good with it. I know.

You know, we do hear that quite a bit. But I'm dingy? No, no. That, you know, maybe the podcast helps people be more aware. I'll be honest with you. That's not one of the things that I really thought of when you and I started. Right. Doing true crime podcasts is that it would help people in that way.

But I get it. Yeah. Keep it on a swivel, man. Some of these stories are scary to the point where you're like, hmm, that could happen to me. Really? I better be more aware. I can't be walking down the street or through a mall parking lot thinking about other things to the exclusion of being aware of my surroundings. I can't do that.

That's what I tell my wife and kids all the time. Don't get in la-la land in your head and not understand where people are around you, how close they are. you know, my daughters, I tell them, if somebody gets too close, you put your hand in, in the, in the old purse and be ready. Be ready. Expect the unexpected. How many times have I got us in trouble just because I pull my knife out way too many times? Well, yeah, but you just pull it out for no reason. There's no trouble. A clown like got too close to you. And I just saw the movie It. Hi, guys, it's Jack from Scotland. I just want to say that I love both of your series, uh, true crime. all the time and unsolved. I think you guys are just absolutely terrific. You're my favorite podcast.

You make true crime fantastically fun. You educate. Obviously, you respect the victims and their families, which is just amazing. And you just, like I said, you make it, you're banter with each other. It's just fantastic, and it's just great. But I think a case you should really, really look into

is the kebab murders, which is basically a poor girl, a 14-year-old girl, Charlene Downs, went missing in 2003. and two men were convicted of murdering her, well, raping her, murdering her, and then disposing of her by putting her a meat grinder and selling her the cabs. But then the trial had a hung jury, and eventually the two men got off. And then there's so many other dodgy things. A pedophile ring was uncovered in a circle of the kebab shops.

It is a crazy story that I really think you guys should look into. We don't have too many from the UK compared to you guys. I think America's got a lot more crazy stories, but this is definitely a crazy one. But yeah, I just want to say that again. I love you guys so much and keep on doing what you're just doing great, right? See you later, guys. Bye. So first of all, love the accent.

Gibbs, I just finished up Peaky Blinders for the second time. Oh, love that show. I know. So I'm really into the English, Scottish, Irish accent right now because of that show. I've been watching Ripper Street. What's that on? It's on Netflix. Oh, is it good?

Yeah, it's really good. It's been on for a few years now. Oh, good. I like it when there's at least a few seasons. But it gives me that Kiki Blinder vibe. Oh, well, I'll watch it. But it's about, you know, Jack to Ripper. But it's all the stuff that happened around it.

I'm in. Yeah, it's good stuff. You sold me. Yeah. But we appreciate that, Jack, very much. Gives we had mailbag. Actually, a lot of mailbag. Yeah.

Kirsten Smith from Australia, sending some Harley chips. She also sent in some K bars for you. Appreciate that. The candy type. The candy ones, yeah. Love it. Mitch and Jennifer Lowness sent in a bunch of chocolate bars from Canada, made by a company called Peace by Chocolate.

I actually had a small piece of one. It was very good. Very tasty. Andrea Miles sent in some Harley chips, some Twizzlers, but also this Dorothy Lynch dressing. Yeah. With some recipes, I guess it can be. be used to make all kinds of things. I'll be eat the tweezers on my way home. Yeah.

From the dressing later. From Nebraska. From Nebraska. Daniel Stewart sent in some poker chips from Australia. So had quite a bit of international flavor. We did in our mailbag this week. Yes. And we appreciate all of it. All right, buddy. That is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.