True Crime All The Time - Massimo Bossetti

Episode Date: August 29, 2022

13-year-old Yara Gambirasio went missing in Italy one night after walking to a gym less than half a mile from her house. Her body was found three months later in a field just a few miles away. Investigators found male DNA on her body but couldn’t find a match. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Massimo Bossetti. The police were determined to find Yara's killer, and they began the most extensive DNA testing program in Italian history. It took three years and almost 20,000 DNA samples, but they eventually found Yara’s killer. But, it was the way they did it that makes this case so fascinating. They didn't get a hit from a database. They started with familial DNA and had to wade through the history of an affair that shook multiple families to the core.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 298 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing pretty well. Yeah.

I'm actually having a much better week than I had last week. So you're all healed? Yeah. For the most part. Good. For the most part. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Sandy Blazley who I talked about last week.

But I missed the fact that she came out higher than our highest level. So I wanted to give her props for that. Yeah, thanks, Sandy. Katie Foster. What's going on, Katie? Lauren Campbell. Hey, Lauren. Taylor S.

What's going on, Taylor? Samantha Miranda. Well, appreciate that, Miranda. Amy Nell. What's up, Amy? James Cooley jumped out at our highest level. Hey, there's James. Sammy McKinsey.

Hey, Sammy. Carrie Wooster. Oh, appreciate that, Carrie. Jane Seacrest. What's going on, Jane? Megan Davis. Appreciate that, Megan. Kim Hunter.

Hey, Hunter. Christine Olion jumped out on our highest level. Appreciate that Olean. Taylor. Matta. Oh, Marissa B. Hey, Clarissa.

Joseph Woodman. What's up, Woodman? And Randy Corey. Well, appreciate that, Randy. Yeah, appreciate all the new support. And then if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Chris Poller.

Hey, Chris. So appreciate the new support, the continued support. Give us the first time, maybe since 2017, that we haven't had any new PayPal donations. That's strange. It is strange. But I get it.

The economy's, rough right now, man. So no PayPal donations in this episode. We have a lot out right now. We put out a brand new Patreon episode on Saturday. We're headed back to the 40s to talk about murderer, rapist and burglar George Zvec, who was known as the aspirin bandit. Yeah, it was an interesting case. It was. The guy had some tactics that he used to gain entry into people's houses. It was a brutal. It was a brutal guy. He was a brutal guy. No doubt about that. And then on Unsolved this week, we're talking about Honey Malone. Yeah, we're headed to Georgia and the Atlanta area, 18 year old young lady murdered. And we will dive into the who, why, when, where, and all that other good stuff.

So that's out right now. Definitely make sure you check it out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All the Time? I am. And we are only two episodes away from the big 300. Wow, are we going to have a cake? No, no cake. But a lot of people online are trying to submit their guesses as to what 300 is going to be. It's going to be a good one. So far, nobody's got it right.

But in this episode, we're talking about Massimo Bussetti and the murder of Yara Gambaracio. 13-year-old Yara Gambarasio went missing one night after walking to a gym. less than half a mile from her house, her body was found three months later in a field just a few miles away. Investigators found male DNA on her body, but they couldn't find a match. The police began what was called the most extensive DNA testing program in Italian history. It took three years and almost 20,000 DNA samples, but they eventually found Yara's killer. So we're headed to one of your favorite countries, Italy. Oh, I love Italy.

It's a beautiful place. I know. I don't know why you have a French accent, trying on there. But I know you love the people. You love the food. I do. You love the architecture and the history and all of it. Everything.

I'm a big Mediterranean fan. I am too. Yeah. I eat kind of a Mediterranean diet. Yeah. So Yara Gambarasia. lived in a town called Brimbate De Sopra, which is in northern Italy. The town is about an hour from Milan and has a small population of about 8,000 people.

Yara's parents are Fulvio, an architect, and Mara a teacher. Yara was one of four children. She had an older sister named Kiba and two little brothers, Natten and Joelle. So, you know, we're in Italy. There are going to be some names of both individuals and places. I'm going to do my very best. As I always do, I'm not always 100% correct. But I'm here to help you.

And you normally do a fantastic job. But Yarr went missing on Friday, November 26th, 2010. It was a cold, snowy evening. She left her house at 5.15 p.m. To go to her gym, which was, was less than half a mile from her house. Yara was a gymnast. And at the time, she was preparing for a gymnastics display that was coming up in a few days. Now, she wasn't planning to practice that evening. All she was set to do was drop off a stereo with her instructor. So she said goodbye to her family

and she left the home. By 7 p.m., Yara had not returned home. Her parents got very worried. At 11 after 7, Yarra's mother called her cell phone. And the call went straight to voice mail. Yara's father decided to call the police 20 minutes later. And in a lot of cases, you and I talk about the timing. Sure. You know, as a parent, okay, how long before you get really, really worried, how long before you get worried to the point where you feel the need to call police?

And I think you can see in this case, they were worried from, Jump Street. Yeah. And, you know, called the police within, you know, 20 minutes of her not picking up her cell phone. Yeah, pretty fast. Yeah. They, they, they, they weren't waiting anytime at all. The call was transferred to the public prosecutor's office in Bergamo, a city about 11 kilometers from Yarosholm. The magistrate on duty was Laetitza Rouge, a former police officer. She had worked as a magistrate for almost 15 years. And within just a few minutes, Ruggieri sent state and military police to Brembate de Sopra. Yara's gym instructor told the police that she saw Yara earlier that evening. She said she did some light training and

then left the gym. The police learned that Yara had texted her friend Martina at 6.44 p.m. They planned to meet at 8 a.m. the next Sunday. This was the last time anyone had heard from her. So when we talk about this gem, you know, it was really kind of a sports complex. There were a lot of entrances and exits that that was in a lot of the research. A few people reported seeing men who they said might have been speaking to Yara standing near a red car. But, you know, really besides that, they couldn't offer up much information. Just the fact they saw some men standing by a red car that may or may not been talking on the yard. Yeah, not a lot to go on. Now, if you're the authorities, you want everything.

You know, we've said that many, many times. Yeah, don't leave anything out. It could be important. Yeah. Now, it may not be enough for us to do anything with, but could it mean something later? If somebody else now says, hey, I saw a red car peel out and the license plate was dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. Yeah, now you have something you can go on. Well, maybe. You, you put everything together at some point. It's looking better though when you have that. Sure. Magistrate Ruggieri called in some sent tracking dogs. They didn't find a trail leading back to Yara's home. What they did was track Yara sent to a hamlet called Mapello. Police checked Yara's last phone signals, which showed that she was in Mapello at 6.49 p.m. So they had that information, but there was no sign of Yara.

Over the next few days, investigators questioned Yara's family. Ruggieri wiretapped hundreds of phones. It was said that her investigative team attempted to trace about 15,000 phones that had passed through Mapello on November 26, 2010. That's a lot of phones. A whole lot of phones. And we'll get into it as this episode goes along. But, you know, there is talk about, you know, invasion of privacy.

what rights did some of these individuals have to do what they did. But one of these phones that they traced belonged to a man named Muhammad Fickry in one of his wiretapped conversations from late November. An interpreter heard him say, forgive me, God, I didn't kill her. Okay, so they're tracking phones. We find out they're wiretapping people. For what reason? Because they had been in.

in the area. Right? You're getting to, you know, somewhat of a gray area here. Very gray. And a lot of people are going to, you know, call that out. But at the same time, you're, you're up against the clock. Sure. So I understand that part.

And we have to be careful not to look at this case from the lens as we know it here in the United States. Right. Because we can't assume every time we go to another country that what would be. completely out of bounds here is out of bounds in another country. But you know what? There's a lot of people that would argue if that was their child. They would want that.

They wouldn't care. Exactly. Yeah, I get that. If you're the parents, please do whatever you have to do. Right. It's going to find my daughter. Do it. Now, if you're a citizen that has absolutely nothing to do with the case,

you probably have a different viewpoint. Sure. More of, hey, why are you invading my privacy? and wiretapping my cell phone conversation. Yeah. So this Fickory guy was working in a builder's yard in Mapelo. By the time investigators learned this information, they found out that he had left town on a boat. On December 4th, 2010, the Italian police intercepted the boat and they arrested Fickory.

They searched his van and found a bloody mattress. So this guy was held in jail for several weeks, but eventually cleared of anything. criminal charges. Apparently his statement had been mistranslated and the blood was determined to be what was called extraneous to the investigation. Okay. So I get it. Our bad. We mistranslated the phone call. It doesn't mean what we may have thought it meant. But can you please explain the bloody mattress in your van? Yeah. I get it. It's extraneous to the investigation. And maybe that was determined through DNA pretty quickly or some, I didn't see how, but you're going to have to explain it. Yeah.

Either way. You kind of still need an answer. And I never saw that explanation. Maybe he had a very simple explanation for it. But Yara's case made national news. It was a big deal. The family was upset, though, by the constant presence of reporters outside their home. Yara's parents didn't make many statements, but when they did, they asked for privacy.

her family shared photos of her with the press so people would know what she looked like but no one came forward with information and and this is where i think as the parents or family of a missing person you're you're in what i would think would be obviously a very strange situation okay on the one hand you need the press you too you want to get the story out there keep it out there and keep it out there On the other hand, I can see how normal citizens would struggle with the constant media presence. You know, you can't leave your house or snapping pictures all the time. It's what celebrities must go through day in, day out. Right. Well, normal people aren't used to that. No. And so there's this kind of strange push and pull there.

We need you guys, but can you back off a little bit? Yeah, give us a little space. Right. be tough. Yeah, because you don't want to tick them off. Well, they ain't going to leave. Yeah. Kind of hard to tick them off too bad, but I get what you're saying because you do need them.

You do. Yeah. After Christmas, Yara's parents went on television to ask the public for information. Her father, Fulbeo asked the public to help us return to normality. And the pain and the anguish, you know, that these parents are going through. Obviously, that's anything but they're not. normal. I mean, it's so far outside what they're used to that most of us, because we've not been in that situation, right, can't really even fully comprehend. On February 26, 2011, a man named

Ilario Scotty was flying his radio controlled plane in Quinole de Solo, less than 10 miles from Yaris home. He thought it would be a good place to test out his plane. Hey, you got a new model plane, radio controlled plane. I've never had one. It looks fun. They do look fun. I thought about getting one of those drones. But my first thought has always been.

No matter how much money I would spend on one of these, I would crash it on the first test flight. And it would be Fubbard. Yeah. They're pretty easy. I mean, I've had that one hovering over your house for quite a while now. I just assumed you had an autopilot by now because it never moves. That's right where I want it.

So this guy. is testing out his plane, but it wasn't working properly. So, you know, he landed it in a patch of toll weeds. When he picked up the plane, he saw some rags on the ground. Then he saw shoes. It was a body. And the body was identified as Yara Gambiraccio. Just not what you're expecting when you're landing that plane. No. And how many times we talked about that? Just somebody walking through the woods doing something that is just kind of a. It's just kind of a a normal activity. Yeah.

And the next thing you know, you stumble upon a dead body. Disbelief you must have at first, you know? And then dealing with it later on. Yeah. I have to believe it's something that sticks with you for a very, very long time. Yeah, I don't think it's something that you can shake easily. Well, because eventually then you're going to find out who this girl is, what happened, the circumstances.

Yara's body was decomposed. but she was wearing the exact outfit she had on when she left home, a black bomber jacket and a hello kitty sweatshirt. You got one of those. I've seen you wear it. I have multiple hello kitty sweatshirts. Yeah. You only know about the one.

But I want to go back to the state of her body because we said it was cold, right? It was three months, though, November to February. So you're going to have some warmer days, I'm assuming. You're going to have some decomposition. The police found her iPod. house keys, phone battery, and the SIM card for her phone, but the phone was missing. Okay. Someone felt the need to pull the SIM card out and just take the phone? Well, to me, there's a very good reason for that.

Yeah. Because the SIM card is what allows it to be tracked. I guess they felt there was some value there or they wanted that phone for another reason. Possibly a trophy. We've seen Stranger Things in episodes. Professor Christina Caton Yeo performed Yara's autopsy. Yara had a large head wound and stab wounds to her back, neck, and wrists. But it was said that the stab wounds weren't fatal. The autopsy also found that she was beaten, stabbed, and then actually died of exposure. There was no evidence of sexual assault, but Yara's bra was unhooked.

There were stains on her clothing. and what was described as a liquid that they later figured out contained male DNA. Okay. So in the reporting, I saw liquid was in quote. So you can make of that what you want. Katineo found traces of lime in Yarra's respiratory passages. There was also jute, which is commonly used to make ropes on her clothes. The professor thought that the lime in jute suggests.

that the killer was some type of builder. So obviously we're talking about some type of quick lime and not the fruit lime. Yes. Yeah, that's the way that I took that as well. Obviously, it just did say lime. But when you talk about somebody being a builder, okay, having the lime that most of us think of as lime makes no sense. No. To equating to building.

But something like quick lime does. Sure. Investigators found two DNA samples at the crime scene. One came from Yara's phone battery and the other came from her gloves. The problem they had was that the DNA was not in any database. In April 2011, the commander of the scientific investigations department called Ruggieri and told her that they found male DNA on Yara's underwear. So, you know, talk about some good evidence.

They got great evidence. They do have great evidence. you and I have done so many cases, especially on unsolved, where they just got so little to work on or work with. Here, we've got a ton. And DNA is awesome. We talk about it all the time. But what happens when, you know, especially in 2010, 2011, you can't match it? Yeah.

Well, you kind of hit a roadblock. You do. But in a sense, you got to be somewhat optimistic because you have that DNA if you preserve it right. Well, if you're filling up your toolbox, you want all of that. And even though you can't match it, as opposed to, you know, showing up at the crime scene and there's nothing. Right. Like I said, I think this is amazing DNA to work off of. So they've got a suspect.

They just don't know who the suspect is. So they named this suspect, Ignato one or unknown one in English. They just had to identify the man who. killed Yara. Because I think if you're putting it together, pretty easy to believe that whoever left this DNA was also the killer. I mean, investigators have to be happy. I would think so. Or optimistic. I think you used a perfect word there. Right. Got to be optimistic. We got something. It's just a matter of time. We're going to find this guy and we're going to make him pay. One Italian newspaper called to search for the killer a genetic soap opera. The police collected DNA from Yara's family,

school acquaintances and friends, and people at the gym. The state police analyzed Jara's phone records and they cross-referenced all mobile phones that had traveled through that region on November 26, 2010. And every person who matched the criteria was asked for a DNA sample. It's a big population. Well, we said earlier, right, they traced like 15,000 phones. So in a matter of months, the police collected thousands of DNA samples, but they still had no match. Do any of you out there feel like you need a little bit of extra excitement in your life?

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older, you can join millions of players around the world. Download Slotomania, the number one free slots game on the app store or Google Play Store and get one million free coins. That's Slotomania on the app store or Google Play Store for 1 million free coins. Ruggieri learned that there was a nightclub called Quicksand near the area where Yara was found. She later said that since she knew killers often dump bodies in areas they know, she wanted to investigate club members. So in the spring of 2010, investigators collected DNA samples from Quicksand club members. the club kept detailed records because members had to use a card to get in.

So police went and they tracked down all the people who went there regularly. I'm loving how proactive they are. I am too. I think there are some people who are going to think that. But then also, wow, there's very little privacy going on. Yeah. Privacy of records, of information, whatever you want to call it. But they did get something.

One of the DNA samples seemed very similar to unknown one. This DNA matched a man named Damiano Wuri Nani, but he was excluded as a suspect because apparently he was in South America on November 26, 2010. Geneticist determined he was a close relative of the killer. So investigators piece together his family tree and learned that his mother, Aurora Zanny worked for the Gambi Rassios for 10 years. So, you know, we've talked about this Gibbs genetic genealogy. It's been solving cases now for a number of years. We're going back to 2011.

Yeah. And they were using that or something very similar to that. Impressive. Yeah. They're tracing people's family trees based on DNA, stuff like that. Now, Danny was no longer working for the Gambi-Rasio family, but they still had a good relationship. She told a number of outlets that being investigated for murder was the worst thing that could happen to me. And I would have to agree. Well, sure. There are a lot of bad things that can happen to you. This is not a good one. No. Nobody wants to be squarely on police radar. as possibly being a murderer. And we said that Damiano was excluded,

but they still intercepted all of his calls. They intercepted Zanis calls. They also followed them. They continued to question them. By the summer of 2011, Ruggieri couldn't find a connection to Yara's murder. She told a number of papers.

It was just a crazy coincidence. So that had to be frustrated because it seemed like a really good lead. Okay, we've got this guy. He's very close in DNA. Right. To our suspect. It's not him.

Couldn't be him. He wasn't even in the country. He's not even on the continent at the time that the murder occurred. So it's got to be a close relative, right? That would be the logic behind it. But who is it? They can't figure it out. The team spent more time working on the family.

But after a year with no answers, the public and politicians began criticizing Ruggieri, calling her incompetent and asking for another person to be assigned to the case. I don't think this is outside of the norm. I think this happens quite a bit. Sure. You know, if you've got a very high profile case and you're the person in charge, if you figure it out, you're the hero. But if too much time goes by and people aren't seeing the results that they think they should be seeing,

well now you're the goat. Yeah, the frustration is setting in and you're incompetent all of a sudden, even though you're not doing anything differently than you've ever done it. No, but they're going to want to change. The results just aren't there. Right. You know, the same thing happens with a coach or whatever. Did the coach get bad all of a sudden?

No. It's just a different situation. The players aren't jelling. Whatever it is. It's time for somebody new. Yep. And that happens all the time. Change of the card.

Ruggieri's team spent more time. working on this family tree. Now they found hundreds of names, dates, places, and family relationships. They reconstructed the complete family tree all the way back to 1815. Impressive. I mean, you can't hear all of this and say, well, they're not putting in the work. Yeah, I mean, it seems like they're, like I said earlier, they're being proactive. They're trying to gather as much information as they can.

investigators traced the family origins to the tiny town of Gorno. They focused on Damiano's uncle Giuseppe, who passed away in 1999. Police found his widow in September 2011. She handed over to them a box of his documents. Inside was a paper driver's license with a postage stamp attached. Police were able to collect two stamps that this man had licked, obviously depositing his saliva, DNA result showed that he was almost certainly the father of unknown suspect number one.

Wow, getting closer. It's pretty cool. It is cool. And it's one of the things that really drew me to this case, the level of DNA work and some of the things that we'll be talking about. Giuseppe was a bus driver. He married a woman named Laura Polly, and they had three children together. a daughter and two sons, Pierre Paolo and Diego. But neither of his sons was a perfect match for unknown suspect number one.

And they didn't have any children, neither of his two kids. So we talk about the roller coaster effect of an investigation, the highs. Hey, we're there. We've got this. We're about ready to crack the case. And then, okay, you go over the hill and then you're in. in the low valley of, we're at a dead end.

Right. We don't know what we're doing. What happened here? We have all this information. It's just not making sense or it's not leading us anywhere. Now, the theory they came up with was that Giuseppe Guaranami had to have an illegitimate child that had not been identified in the family tree.

Ruggieri later told the guardian, it became an investigation within an investigation. Yeah, it's another deep dive, but you need to go that direction to get the answers you need. Investigators began searching small villages in northern Italy, looking for middle-aged women who might be the mother of Warononi's child. And it was said, Gibbs, that locals were very defensive at first. They didn't understand why police were asking for DNA from older women in these villages. people became afraid that one of their neighbors, somebody that they knew really,

really well, was a murderer. Yeah. I might be a little reserved to give up my DNA too. Well, you'd have very good reason to be reserved. That's true. Your DNA would light up like a war games movie.

I mean, there would just be dials and beeps and flashes all over the place. Match, match, match, match. But how strange would it be? you live in a small town like I do I live in a pretty small town fairly small bigger than what we're talking about here but if the police just kind of were going door to door asking women of a certain age for their DNA there might be some backlash there might be people putting up quite a bit of a fight investigators learn that from the 1960s on two weeks every May Giuseppe Guernoni traveled

alone to a spa resort called Salis Terame, outside Milan. Oh, so maybe looking for a person with a January birthday? Did you do that math in your head? I did. It's pretty impressive. I actually counted on my fingers. It's wrong. It's very wrong.

But it's pretty impressive. I think you're like eight months from May to January. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. Yeah, I think you're missing quite a little bit of time. Yeah. Maybe it was a pre-me baby. Maybe.

Yeah. In spring 2012, investigators looked through records and they tracked down all the women who stayed in the resort at the same time as Guaranone. They also searched orphanages and homes for what they termed fallen women. They DNA tested single moms and women who moved out of mountain towns to Bergamo. So again, the one thing you can't question is the amount of work and kind of the stick-tuitiveness, if that's a word, that the law enforcement agencies are putting forth. The effort is there. Now, you can question their tactics and whether it's right or wrong,

privacy-wise. But again, if you are the family of the victim, you are- You're cheering them on. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Because you're seeing this or you're learning about, they're telling you this. And you're like, yes, please do everything within your power. We'll talk about it. But what? Was it really within their power? We'll find out. What investigators started to believe was that perhaps they shouldn't be looking for a single woman at all. Maybe the person they were looking for was a married woman who had had an affair.

Divorce wasn't even legalized in Italy until 1970. So you could see why maybe there could be a possible connection there. I mean, he was married, so why wouldn't you believe a married woman would have a affair also? Well, yeah, I guess at this point, let's not rule anything out, right? You know, as all this was going on, Yara's parents hired a freelance geneticist to review the police investigation and help explain it to them. I think that's actually a really smart idea. Yes. If you have the resources to do that, because obviously a lot of this stuff is very technical.

So to have someone in your corner who can help. translate what the police are doing makes sense. The geneticist requested the exhumation of Giuseppe Guaranone's body. He thought that investigators were only able to compare 13 short tandem repeat regions of DNA. But it was said to confirm paternity, you needed at least 15 of these STR regions. So on March 7, 2013, Guaranone's remains were exhumed. Experts were able to compare 29 STR regions, which meant they were now 100% certain that

Giuseppe Guaranoni was the father of unknown suspect number one. In early August 2013, the police seized a church visitor's book after they found a note confessing to the murder. The note was found out the Salvini de Roe. Chapel Hospital. According to the local, the note said, tell the police of Bergamo that the killer of Yarra Gambe Rossio was here. May God forgive me. There's so much in this case. It's almost like bombshell after bombshell. Right. You know, now we know 100% this guy's the father of the suspect. I've still got to find him. Yeah, but you probably were feeling pretty good already. But now you have to

feel even better. Yeah, I would agree with that. But now you have this note that is thrown into the mix. Okay. What does it mean? Who was it left by? The police reviewed the visitors book in hospital CCTV footage. Chapel staff didn't report noticing anything unusual. And the note was written just a few hours before it was found. On August 9th, 2013, Italian news outlet, the local reported that a chaplain received a confession letter. Father Antonio Chetari found the letter under the hospital chapel dormant. It said, I wrote the message in the church book. And the letter was signed by a man named Mario. Okay. I mean, it's mystery after mystery. Yeah. If I didn't know the ending, I'd be very intrigued. But I do know the ending. Well, I know the ending too. But you're still

intrigued. Absolutely. I've got you hooked. So then apparently, Apparently, Mario called the reception desk and said, hello, I'm called Mario. I'm sick with cancer. I'm the author of the message in the church about Yara. I wanted to know if the chaplain has received my letter. The problem is the confession letter didn't lead to any answers. So, you know, was it real? Was it not real?

Police had to really be scratching their heads again about what does the letter mean? Who's Mario? Right. What's going on? Towards the end of 2013, people started to figure out why the police were looking for a woman. He had a lot of gossip, rumors spreading throughout towns in northern Italy about just who might have had an affair. I can imagine people everywhere in every town talking over their fence line to their neighbor saying, who do you think it is?

Yeah. I think it was what's her name down around the corner? Detective Marshall Giovanni Mocherino had completed then. in-depth investigation into Guaranone's life. He learned that the man lived in Pontaselva and worked as a bus driver for a bus company there and would have driven lots of women to work in the textile factories. Mocherino spoke to Guaranone's former co-workers. One of the coworkers had spoken with the press in March 2013 and said that Guaranoni confessed to getting a young woman in trouble. One co-worker said that Guaranoi was a ladies man and drove lots of young women on his

bus. He didn't reveal the name of the woman. Guaranoi had an affair with and at one point was at risk of being prosecuted for false testimony. According to Newsweek, people in Italy do not have the right to remain silent. Oh, so if you have information, you have to share it. You have to give it up. Now, I'm assuming that's still the case today. This case is only 12 years old. Right. You know, so, but I don't know that to be a fact. The police narrowed their list down to 532 women. In June 2014, a source told Marcioni the name of the woman they had been looking for. And that name was Esther Arzoufi. Esther was neighbors with Guaranone and Ponticellva in the late 60s. In 1966, she married Gianni Bossetti, a man from a nearby village.

Esther worked at a textile factory and rode the bus each day. She left Ponte Selva in 1970. But she continued having the affair with Guarernoni. Then in the fall of 1970, she had twins, Massimo Bossetti and a daughter. So now they're closing in. Things are looking promising. Yeah, they got to feel like they're making some really good, progress, Esther's DNA was tested in July 2012, but apparently the geneticist made an error.

Her DNA was compared to Yara rather than being compared to unknown suspect number one. Investigators then tested her DNA again and found out that she was in fact the mother of unknown suspect number one. So we know conclusively who the father is. We know conclusively who the mother is. We know conclusively who the mother is, it's just a matter of time. Right. Esther's son, Massimo Bousetti, was 42 years old and worked as a builder. He was married, had three kids, and lived in Mapello, where Yarra's cell phone was last used.

You know, for me, it's like, I'm picturing a jigsaw puzzle of a picturesque Italian countryside. Yeah. And the more we talk, the more. puzzle pieces fall into place. And we're getting close to having that picturesque landscape completed. On June 15th, 2014, Magistrate Ruggieri set up a fake roadblock

to breathalized drivers. But really, hoping to catch Bessetti and get a DNA sample. Officers stopped him. He was driving with his wife and three children at the time. The officers pretended their machine didn't work the first time so that they could obtain two different samples. So pretty sneaky, sis.

Yeah. Bocetti passed the breathalyzer test and left the area. So didn't think anything about it. Guy wasn't drinking. I'll take the breathalyzer and then I'll go on my way. But his DNA results came back overnight. Bissetti was unknown subject number one. His DNA was found on Yara's body and fibers.

from his van were found on her clothes. Bissetti's DNA was also found on Yara's underwear and leggings. Forensic geneticist Carlo Previdary told the New York Times that the odds of someone else matching Bocetti's genetic profile are one person out of two billion of billions of billions. Wow, it's a lot of billions.

Is that a real number? I don't know. it sounds like gibberish to me, but I'm sure for scientific people, that's some kind of real number. Yeah, yeah. But I think we all get it, right? I mean, it's, it's, it's a number bigger than I can comprehend. There were 21 compatible markers. And normally, prosecutors only need 16, 17. So they had more than enough to arrest this guy. But Ruggieri didn't want to make an arrest. yet she wanted to follow Bocetti and study him but she was worried that he would find out the police were on to him and take off so on June 16th 2016 Massimo Bocetti was arrested at work

on June 17th he was charged with murder now he claimed that he was at work when the crime occurred but investigators found evidence that proved otherwise why is it always work why do these killers always say I was at work? Are they going to try to impress people like that? No, it seems like such an easy thing to prove or disprove. Yeah. So if you're not telling the truth, you know, why not say I was at a little league baseball game? Pretty hard to tell.

Yeah. Whether you were at a little league baseball game. But work? They're going to go to your work and see if anybody knows that you were actually there. Yeah. I think they can prove that easier than some other things. Right. Make it a little bit harder.

I was flying my radio controlled plane. Out in the middle of nowhere. Yeah. Police found out that Bussetti often hung out near Yara's house. He parked his car behind her gym. He ate at a pizzeria at the end of Yara's street. He took UV showers at a tanning salon very close to her house. So he's getting a little tan in between.

Yeah, this guy sounds scarily a lot like you. I know you like to do your UV shower thing. You do eat a lot of pizza. At a pizzeria. I bet that's good pizza though, too. Oh, yeah. They also found out that his internet search history suggested that he was attracted to young girls.

And that is never good. When the police are looking at you as a suspect and they find a bunch of child pornography, let's say, on your computer. And it just so happens that your DNA turns up on a young girl's dead body. I mean, it doesn't look good in the first place. No, but he's got some big. explaining to do it really doesn't look good you know coupled with the other stuff his phone record showed that he was in brimbate disapra on the evening yarr went missing that's not good but said he turned

off his phone from 545 p.m to 745 a.m. Suspicious that's a large chunk of time they figured out that he last used his phone to call his brother. They also found out that a white truck, similar to the one he owned, was captured by security cameras at a gas station across from Yara's gym at 6 p.m. 10 minutes later, his truck was seen by the cameras at a bank, very close to Yara's house. Okay, now that work alibi is not looking so good. It is not. But Bousetti insisted he was innocent. He said he usually went to Brimbate De Sopra to see his brother and accountant. And on the night of Yarra's disappearance, he had passed through there on his way to work to avoid traffic. Oh, the old, uh, I got to avoid this traffic.

Yeah. There's work. There's traffic. Those are two standbys. Bocetti did admit to magistrates that in 2012, when he heard that the police were looking for the illegitimate son of, of a bus driver, he asked his mom if she knew Giuseppe Guaranone. Strange, right? Yeah, as I said, it seems really strange.

His attorney said that they planned to argue that his DNA only showed presence, not responsibility. Well, I think you have to answer how his DNA was present. Which I think is going to be really tough to do because we're talking about a 13-year-old girl. Yeah. What explanation are you going to try to conjure that is number one not going to be illegal? Right. And number two makes any sense at all.

But maybe if you think about it, illegal is okay for you if it gets you out from under a murder rap. Yeah. Bocetti argued that the DNA samples were inaccurate because of over exposure or cross-contamination. The police disagreed. said the sample was of excellent quality. Four labs confirmed that the DNA belonged to Bessetti. Well, it's hard to dispute. Four labs. That they all got it wrong, that there was cross-contamination in all four labs.

Yeah, I mean, the arguments are always going to be made, right? By the defense. Lieutenant Colonel Michelle LaRousseau told the press, despite exposure to the wind, rain, and snow, those two DNA traces were excellent. And we were able to exclude saliva and sperm. So that left blood. He said that although Yara wasn't raped, there are many other ways to sexually abuse a girl. So it sounds like he's trying to counter what the defense argument's going to be.

Yeah, it sounds like he's trying to do it proactively. Bocetti's bell requests were all rejected. You know, and this case not only impacted Yara's family, but the family of the perpetrator as well. Garinoni's widow learned that her husband had an affair and had two more children as a result of that affair. Some shocking news. Yeah, that's brutal to learn. Giovanni Bocetti found out none of his children were his own. His wife had another affair that resulted in a third shop.

They've definitely had some arguments or conversations after all this came out. You talk about a gut punch. Number one, you learn that your wife's been having. having multiple affairs. And then you learn that these children that you love and you've been raising and taking care of, they're not yours. Yeah. But you can't switch that love off, right?

No, no, you can't. But it does have to change something. Yeah. I don't know. That would be really tough to take. Bocetti's family also suffered. His defense wanted to portray him as a family man. But two men reported the magistrates that they had affairs with his wife, which

hurt his public image. Esther denied ever having an affair. She only spoke to a news outlet once. She told the Corriere della Sarah, the DNA match was inexplicable and I did not have an affair with him unless my mind is playing me absurd tricks. Now, granted, some of these translations don't come out

perfectly correct. Right. So we can ballpark what they're. saying. Yeah, I think everybody will get the gist of it either had an affair or not. When you say I didn't have one, but you add on unless my mind is playing tricks on me. Right. Seems like you're just leaving that window open there as opposed to just coming out and saying, absolutely unequivocably, no, I did not have an affair. She's not saying that.

No. You know, speaking of Bocetti's family, the public was so outraged that they assaulted his twin sister. Not once but twice. On September 17th, 2014, his sister was hospitalized after strangers beat her unconscious in her parents' garage. This was brutal. She was kicked and punched repeatedly. There was no reason for the public to do that to her. She was not involved. No, in any way. She had nothing to do with it. But just think about that. The public was so outraged. They took it out on this guy's sister. Yeah.

Marita Comey, Bocetti's wife spoke in a TV interview in October 2014 and said, they cannot explain to us how his DNA was found on Yara's clothes. I have never had suspicions about him. We always ate dinner altogether at 7.30 p.m. at the latest 8 p.m. And he was always there as he was that night. And I get that, you know, gives no, no wife who loves her husband. and trust him, wants to believe that he's capable of doing that.

But to say that the guy is home at 738 for dinner every night, we know her last known communication was 64. So was there time? Was 45 minutes enough time for him to murder her and then be home and eat dinner like a normal husband and father? Yeah. I think it, I think it is.

Now, I mentioned this up front and a couple, and alluded to it, a couple times during the episode. This case also sparked a lot of debate about privacy violations. Italy's privacy authority requested that the media used maximum respect when sharing people's personal details. The chief of the data protection agency said, not even the public interest legitimizes

the media frenzy over intimate personal details, such as to create irreparable damage to family life and personal relations. I think we're past that. I think so too. Now, Ruggieri told the public that she never needed to get a court order because every single person submitted their DNA voluntarily. If they're going to give it up voluntarily, then they're good. Yeah.

If that's, if that's truly how it happened. Now, I still have questions about, you know, some of the cell phone tracking, the wiretapping and some of that. But in January, 15, a scientific advisor said in court that the DNA may not belong to Bussetti, but the evidence wasn't reassessed after that testimony. And some people have expressed out about the accuracy of the DNA match. People cite the fact that Esther Arzoufi's DNA was not a match the first time she was tested, but it was a match the second time. Sources have said that the second screening was only

ordered after Guaranoni's friend Antonio Nogroni told a police officer that the name of the woman he had an affair with was Esther Arzoufi. Lieutenant Colonel Laruso said in the first screening, we tested only the nucleus in the DNA samples from the women, but we then discovered that the nucleus of the DNA on Yaros corpse was damaged and too poor for a match with the mother, although it was fine for a match with the father. So we ordered a second screening in which we tested the mitochondria that surround the nucleus of the DNA, which contains more female traces. All right.

That sounds legitimate to me. I don't know whether or not what he's saying is true. I understand mitochondrial DNA, but as in every case, right? People say a lot of things. We do. That sound good. You got to figure out, is it true? True or not. According to Newsweek, Bocetti's lawyer said, we of course asked to do our own DNA

test because my client professes his innocence and is adamant that the DNA found on the deceased cannot therefore be his. What else is he going to say? Well, he could say he did it and that the DNA was his, but what's the advantage to him of doing that? His trial started on July 3rd, 2015 in Bergamo. Northern Italy, the trial lasted a year. His defense asked for the DNA evidence to be thrown out because they said it was not sufficient evidence to prove murder. Prosecutors detailed the 18,000 DNA samples they took in exactly how they found Giuseppe Guaranone. 18,000. That's a staggering number. Bocetti's wife testified to help establish an alibi for him. And his defense team, proposed an alternate suspect.

Jim instructor Sylvia Brenna. Her blood was found on the sleeve of Yara's jacket. Sylvia's father testified that she cried on the night of Yara's disappearance. When questioned, Sylvia said she didn't remember this. She also couldn't answer why she texted her brother at the time of Yara's disappearance and then deleted the messages. Yara's sister Kiba testified on September 18th. that she had never seen Massimo Bessetti before his arrest.

She testified that there were no signs of danger, no signs of stalking. She also said, if something were amiss, I would have known. If someone had approached her, she would have told me. Witness Ilario Scotty testified about finding Yarra's body and said that a man stood at the edge of the field for about 15 minutes and watched him. But he left when he heard the police sirens. We know how the killer likes to hang out by the body. So I'm not surprised.

Happens quite a bit. Yeah. Wants to see what's going on. Yeah. So we don't have every single piece of this trial, but you are hearing some conflicting information. You know, what is powerful,

I think is the DNA? I think in cases like this, is it enough that the DNA is found there to prove murder? You know, the defense is saying no. DNA on its own is not enough to prove. that. But on July 1st, 2016, Massimo Bocetti was found guilty of murder and sentenced to life in prison. Judges also revoked his parental rights to his children. According to the guardian, Bocetti insisted he was innocent and said in court, I might be stupid, an idiot, ignorant,

but I'm not a killer. Yara's parents issued a statement through their lawyers. They said, now we know who it was, even if we know that, no one will bring Yara back to us. In November 2019, Bocetti's lawyers requested a review of the DNA evidence. In March 2021, the court denied this request. And then just this January, on the 27th, Bocetti's third application for DNA analysis was rejected by the court of Assisi's of Bergamo. The defense had again requested to access and analyze the samples. So, It was a defeat, but Bocetti's lawyer said he wouldn't give up and was already working on a new appeal. He's come out numerous times and said he does not believe that the DNA analysis that convicted Massimo was done correctly.

No doubt. The DNA part of this case is huge. Yeah, I would have to believe it's the biggest piece, right, that probably led to his conviction. Now, you can't discount the CCTV and, and, you know, you know, him being caught on camera. But what is all of that prove? He was in the area. Does it prove he murdered her? No, but when you look at all that, him saying he wasn't there, his DNA matches. Okay, you put all that together. It's pretty compelling stuff. Yeah. Gives, as we wrap this one up, the murder of Yara Gambi Racio remains one of the most high profile criminal cases in Italian history. We talked. We talked. We talked. We talked. We talked. We're not. And we're not. And we're

about the relentless pursuit by police of DNA samples, and it eventually paid off. They were able to find and arrest her killer. I don't think there's any doubt that Bousetti will continue appealing his conviction in sentence. His lawyer has said as much. But with the strong forensic and CCTV evidence against him, it seems unlikely that he, you know, would be released from prison anytime soon, barring. some kind of revelation about the DNA testing.

That's what I think it would take. Yeah, I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think it is either. I never say never on anything. Oh, of course, yeah. But there would have to be some kind of bombshell. They made it up. It didn't match it all.

You know, there would have to be something like that. It would have to be some type of Elizabeth Holmes, Theranos. They just concocted all of the results type deal. Right, one of those testing machines. exactly yeah but that's it for our case on massimo bossetti it was a case i wanted to do just because i found some of the aspects of the case so fascinating and in particular the DNA angle yeah the links they went to and the way they you know traced the family tree found the father but then had to go find the mother because there was no record or history of a son who matched.

These investigators certainly didn't give up. No, they didn't. No, not at all. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Yeah, see them. Hi, guys. This is Susan from Illinois.

I listen to you guys every day when I'm driving back and forth from work. And this morning, I'm listening to the Lionel's Hague episode. And I just, and I'm cracking. up because Mike said, I don't know if you're, when you're 12 years old, if you can really grasp adult, you know, how it is to be an adult. And when you said, I don't think you're thinking about a 401k or diabetes or managing gout, I was dying. Just, I don't know why. It just killed me. It is so true. No, I don't think, I never thought about any of that stuff until I was in my late 20. I agree with it. But anyway, you guys are great. Thanks so. Thanks so. I don't think. I never thought about any of that stuff. I was in my late 20.

I agree with it. But anyway, you guys are great. Thanks so much for always making me laugh and for having super interesting stories that you do such a great job presenting to everybody. I absolutely love your podcast. It's only the second one I've ever heard in my life and I don't even listen to any others.

You guys are great. It almost feels like they're friends. Thanks for all you do. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Should I tell her it's still a little noise? You can, but she lives. there and she knows that's not correct. Oh, okay.

As does 99.9% of the population. We've heard from some people who agree with you. It is a small percentage, though. But it is still some people. It is a percentage. Exactly. It is. But we appreciate all the kudos.

It means a lot to us. The interesting thing is those things I mentioned are all things I worry about. Yeah. All things that I actually deal with in my real life. Some of those I take medication for. Hi, guys. This is Erica down in San Diego, and I was just listening to the rapper Garrow case when Givie was talking about how crappy his chair is, and he was sitting on the thorn.

I just wanted to tell you guys real quick. Have you guys ever seen in an office setting or there's these clips that you hang on a board, but on the back of it has like these two prongs to stick into like a cork board or something, And then the front side of it is like a clip holder so you can hang papers up or something. My husband went on a trip with some friends, and my friend cleared out his car, and he got into the back seat, and he sat down. He told me all this, and he sat down, and all of a sudden he was just in so much pain, and he made his friends, like, see what the hell was going on. And when he turned around, they pulled one of those out of his butt. And it's like the end of it, I mean, it's a solid inch, the two little prong.

that hang out. But that's what it reminded me of. So I hope you guys are having a good day. Bye. I'm having a better day now because it didn't happen to me. That made my ass hurt. It's a little bit. I had a girl in high school turn around too quick and stab me in the ass with an exacto knife. Oh, really? Yeah. That's funny. Right through my guest jeans that I had rolled up, pegged at the bottom. That's what gets you really upset. With my mini tonkas, ruin my guest jeans. No, it was upsetting that I had to walk down

the hall with blood streaming down my backside and down my leg she felt horrible by the way as she should all right i just got done listening to the linal kate episode uh and i had a couple things that i thought connected to that my uncle was actually a pizza man in a small town uh in iowa who was murdered by some young people his name was gregg wells it was in cedar rapids or marion iowa I'd love if you'd cover it because that would bring attention to the case so that when these people go out for parole, they continue to serve time. And it's his family misses him every day. Also, I want to point out that I am teen Fergie wife because she's a teacher and so am I. So Team Fergie's wife, at school year's about to start up, go teachers.

Keep your own time ticking. And you guys are me and my wife's Sunday night. podcast. Have a good night. Well, we love teachers. Yeah. You really love teachers. Yeah. Yeah, obviously I do. My dad was a teacher. My stepmom was a teacher. A lot of teacher in my family, along with my wife. The couple weeks leading up to school starting for my wife is a very hectic time. I'm assuming it is for all teachers. But for her, you know, it's really like, okay, number one, summer's ending. Yeah. My vacation, my summer vacation is ending. But number two, It's like I've got eight million things I got to do.

Don't talk to me. Right. Because I got to get all this stuff ready. Yeah. She looks stressed. Yeah. It's a very hectic time for her. And so I give her her space.

I do whatever she asked me to do. I'm on my best behavior. You have to be. I have to be. Or else it'll go three mile island around here real quickly. And we don't want that. Never. Nobody wants that.

I won't even come in if it's three mile island. Yeah. So we appreciate the voicemail. I'm going to write that case down. We'll take a look at it. Yeah. sometimes there's not enough information out there, but we always look at them. Let's see what we can get.

We had some mailbag Gibbs. Courtney Perry sent us in some Buckees beef jerky. Oh, you love that Bucky. Oh, got to have that Bucky. She also sent some Harley chips. Nice. Don Chick sent in a couple of different serial killer coloring books for adults, obviously. Oh, yeah.

She also set us up with colored pencils, washable markers. So, you know, after we're done recording, we can, just sit down and do some coloring. It's a nice rainy day activity. Exactly. She also sent some Harley Chip. So all of that's very much appreciated. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time.

So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.