True Crime All The Time - Matthew James Phelps

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

Matthew Phelps and Lauren Hugelmaier married in 2016. Less than a year into the marriage, Matthew called 911 early one morning to report that he had taken too much cold medicine and believed he had killed his wife. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the case of Matthew Phelps. Phelps was not working, spending too much money, and not helping out around the house. Lauren told family members that she was tired of it and was going to end the relationship. It seems as though Matthew Phelps couldn't handle that and killed Lauren, although at trial, he blamed his actions on taking too much cough medicine.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 338 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson, how are you? Hey, I'm doing good. How about you? Doing real well. Yeah, good.

My wife just had her 50th birthday. Mine's coming up in a couple of weeks. So, um, yeah, we're working through that. There you go. Got to work through it. Some people, it doesn't bother me. So you're going to be an old man like me. Yeah.

Yeah. Not as old, but. In the same club, I think. 50 plus. It starts with the same first digit. It does, right. I'm in the 50 plus club. So let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts.

We had Dusty Kendall jump out at our highest level. Hey, appreciate that, Dusty. Jill. Well, good old Jill. David Rand. There's David. John Holland. Hey, appreciate that, Holland.

Matthew Scovron. Hey, Matthew. Mary Beth Long, who's been a longtime supporter, Gibbs. And she's always been above the highest level. She's awesome. She jumped up even higher. She is amazing. Yeah. Bianca Hapgood.

Hey, Bianca. Janelle Malamatos. I just like saying that name. Malamatos. Pamela Sue. Hey, Pamela Sue. Natalie Peek. What's going on, Natalie?

Mary Sandalands. Hey, Mary. Sandy Carter. Awesome, Sandy. Vicky Jory. Hey, Jory. Wendy Prophet. Well, thank you, Wendy.

And last but not least, Kathleen Kurtz. Well, good old Kathleen. Then, if we go back into the vault, this week, We selected Cian Staker. Well, appreciate that, Ms. Staker. Yeah, yeah, appreciate the new support, the continued support. And we had some great PayPal donations from Evan Claussen.

Hey, Evan. And a pretty sizable one from Andrea Seddon. Man, look at that. Thank you, Andrew. Yeah, so we appreciate all of that. Gibbs right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved. We have an episode out that we are calling the Severed Feet Mystery. So we're on the West Coast, Washington State, British Columbia, you know, that area.

Right. And this is all about a large number of shoes washing up on shore with feet in them. Imagine that, taking a stroll down the beach and then all of a sudden. Yeah. Now, we have referenced, I think, this episode in other episodes. It comes up quite a lot, but we've never actually done it. So make sure you check that out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time?

I am ready. We are talking about Matthew James Phelps. Matthew Phelps and Lauren Hugelmeier married in 2016, less than a year into their marriage. Matthew called 9-1-1, early one morning, to report that he had taken too much cold medicine and he believed he had killed his wife. So let's just go ahead and play that right off the bat. Let's listen to it. I have blood all over me, and there's a bloody knife on the bed, and I think I did it.

I took more medicine than I should have. What medicine did you take? I took, I took horse eating, cough and cold, because I know it can make you feel good, so a lot of times I can't sleep at night. So that's what we're in for. Okay. The cough medicine did it. Yeah. Ultimately, that is going to.

to be the defense. Lauren Ashley Nicole Hugelmeyer was born on June 9th, 1988 in Los Angeles County. After Lauren's death, her family requested that she be referred to by her maiden name. Can't really blame them on that. No, I can't either. I can't imagine, you know, number one, you're grieving. Right. And then on top of that, it's thought that, you know, the husband did it.

But on the news, they're probably using his last name as hers because it was her last name. That would just sing into a frenzy. Yeah, you don't want to see that name next to your daughters or hear it. Or hear it. Yeah. According to the North Carolina Department of Adult Correction Offender Public Information Search page, Matthew James Phelps, was born on March 11th, 1989. according to the show relatively evil, his parents married at a young age. Lauren's mother, Lori Hougalmire, said his parents were not mature enough to raise him.

So Matt's grandmother took him in and raised him. His mother was in and out of his life. I think there's a lot of kids that go through that same scenario. Yeah, it happens. It happens. Now, it said young age, didn't say how young. but what I do think we see is a lot of instances where, you know, grandparents step in, help raise a child. Yeah.

Sounds like that's what happened here. In 2011, Matthew graduated from Clear Creek Baptist Bible College in Pineville, Kentucky. According to his Facebook page, he studied mission and evangelism. So kind of a wholesome type of guy. Yeah. Sounds like it. Now, obviously, we're going to be. going to find out that maybe not quite so wholesome, Matthew and Lauren knew each other growing up.

They reconnected when they were both 26 years old. Matt liked her Instagram pictures and they started talking to each other. Matthew and Lauren were both Christians and they had some shared interests. They were into Star Wars and Harry Potter. Harry Potter. That wasn't half bad actually. Yeah. Lauren wrote in one Instagram post that she met. Matthew in middle school when she lived in Kentucky and she said my family moved away and 11-ish years later he finds me on Instagram where our relationship becomes the most important thing in the world to me. You ever reconnected with an old friend or girlfriend down the road? No, not really. I remained friendly. Yeah. With some, but never a situation like this where you don't

talk to somebody for 11, 12 years. Right. And then all of a sudden, you reconnect and, and obviously I wouldn't rekindle a relationship. Because I'm married, but just even any type of relationship. First of all, you know me and Facebook. Oh, that's true. That's very unlikely to happen. Yeah.

You probably still have messages out there. I'm sure. On your personal Facebook page from years ago. Yeah. I don't do anything with the personal Facebook at all. Yeah. But I do find this fascinating where people, you know, knew each other and then they reconnect. You know, my thought is, he probably had a crush on her.

Yeah. And said, you know what? I wonder what she's doing now. Looked her up on Instagram and it kind of went from there. Just one thing led to another. Lori Hougal Meyer said she was happy with the relationship because Matthew made her happy. Lauren's father, Dale, thought the relationship moved a little too fast, and he felt like he didn't really get the chance to know Matthew very well. Matthew's mother showed up at Matt and

Lauren's engagement party wearing a white dress. Lori said that she got the impression. Matt's mother was not happy with his choice to marry Lauren. Matt later said that his mother was self-centered and that she wasn't that important to him. I guess the mother was trying to steal the limelight. Yeah, kind of strange, right? To show up in a white dress. But again, here's a woman, admittedly, who was in and out of his life. So, you know, for him to say, well, she's self-centered.

She's not that important to me. Maybe that was true. Yeah, kind of sounds like it was. So Matthew and Lauren got married in November 2016. They had a Star Wars themed wedding to the point where, you know, like photos from their reception showed them fighting with lightsabers. I wonder if they had like their best men dressed as stormtroopers and I don't know. The women dressed as, uh, uh, Princess Leia.

I know that's, that's how your wedding was and I just thought it was so strange. Most of them a lot of Chabacua. Did you just say Chubacua? I did. It came out wrong. you know so what is it really chabaca okay yeah yeah so you knew it oh of course came out wrong yeah no problem now i love star wars my wife not so much right but even if she did i think it would be a real tough sell or would have been back in the day to say you know what let's have a star war's themed wedding i think it's kind of cool when couples do stuff like that you know they're

into the same things my wife was she was very true traditional. She wanted that, you know, church, the whole whatever she had grown up thinking it should be. She wanted to make that dream come true. Yeah, she wasn't about dueling with lightsabers. It would be cool, though, especially if they were the real ones. They got some new ones that are like super, you know, we took that trip to Disney. Yeah. Over the Christmas holiday. And I mean, these were like three, four hundred dollars. Yeah. But they were really cool. They do that. Oh, they make all the sounds.

But it was said that Matthew's grandparents and mother attended the wedding. He wanted his brother and dad to be there, but his mother didn't want them to come. Okay. Me and your grandma will be there, but I don't want those guys here. I mean, that sounds a little controlling. Well, he said she was self-centered. She wore a white dress. You even mentioned maybe trying to grab the attention, doesn't want.

dad and brother there? Okay. According to Lori, during family pictures, Matt's mom grabbed him by the hand and told the photographer, she wanted a family picture, then pushed Lauren to the side. I don't think that would go too well

with most brides and grooms. No, I mean, you gotta stick up. Sure, you're for your wife. You're a couple now. Yeah. Now, you said wouldn't go too well. You're obviously not starting out on a great footing as far as the daughter or mother-in-law relationship, however you want to say that.

It's not going to be, it's not going to go well. No. But overall, the newlywed couple seemed happy together, maybe once they got past the wedding. Lauren wrote in an Instagram post a few days after the wedding, which was published in an article later by people. Our day was the most special day of my life. The excitement was like Christmas morning times like 10,000. I am so blessed to have this handsome man to call my husband. So clearly she was pretty excited.

Yeah, but who's not? It's a wedding day, right? In the first couple of days after the wedding, even weeks, months, years. You're not going to be like, I don't know, I mean, we got married. I don't know. I don't really want to be married. Two days later, yeah, I might have made a mistake. It might work out.

A drunk Vegas wedding? Okay, maybe you have that thought. But something that you've planned out and you're not going to have that thought a day or two later. Why'd you bring up the whole Vegas wedding again? We said you weren't going to ever talk about it. It was a crazy night, man. I didn't mention which one it was, whether it was two, three, four, or five. Yeah, the odd ones.

Matthew and Lauren lived in a townhouse in Raleigh, North Carolina. Lauren lived in the townhouse first. And then Matt moved in with her after the wedding. A neighbor told people that they seemed like an ordinary couple. It's always fascinating to me what people say, right? Neighbors after the fact. Yeah. Because it's really,

it can only go two ways. They were average. They were ordinary. They were helpful or they were, you know, odd and strange and I knew they were a serial killer or whatever it is. But most often it is the, they just seem.

like the perfect couple. They were, you know, so helpful and nice. You just never know. In January 2017, Lauren posted on Instagram, my year has been amazing and couldn't have asked for better memories. Marrying my Prince Charming, time with my nephews and family, purchasing a family car for our future babies and so much more. Can't wait to see what new memories are made in 2017. Thank you to all my followers and friends. I have made on here for being so sweet and supportive. So here's the one thing that really jumps out at me about some of these newer cases. We're not going back 30, 40 years. So what you have that you wouldn't have had back then is really a lot of documentation of a person's life made by them on social media.

That's true. And I think that's, that trend or that, that's going to continue. Now, some people had diaries back in the day and those diaries were revealed, but this is all public stuff, right? You can just get on Facebook and. Absolutely. It's right there. A lot of people can see it. And I do think, you know, many people are free with their, they're sharing. But the other thing is, I don't know how you can take anything, but the fact that she seems super happy and excited. Yeah. About her husband, about the future. That's what I'm taking from it.

I think that's what would be expected. Yeah, you're still in the honeymoon phase, right? Everything's going great. In 2017, Matt and Lauren were both in their late 20s. The news and observer reported that Matthew worked for Dunlap Law and service, a friend told ABC, Lauren was a Sunday school teacher and Matthew was studying to be a pastor.

Lauren actually had a few jobs. She was an auditor at quintiles, which runs drug trials for pharmaceutical companies. She also sold candles for Sensi, babysat, and worked in the church nursery. Is he? Yeah, she had a lot going on. Yeah. My wife and daughters love those senses. Oh, yeah.

We have them all over the house. depending on what room you're in, you're either in the forest, somebody's baking cookies, or walking through a lavender field. Or yeah, you're walking through a field of some type of flowers. Lauren was described as a hard worker and a person who had goals for herself. She wanted to excel in everything she did. Lauren's family told ABC that she was all about her family. Church was a priority for her.

Lauren volunteered and loved the children and youth ministry. Lauren loved her dog Cooper like he was her child. She was a very special person to everyone who knew her. Again, a lot of the types of things that you hear about victims. Because obviously this is coming from friends and family. But it does sound like she was a really great person. Yeah. You know, loved her dog like he was her child.

so many of us are like that. Absolutely. But she did seem to be very family oriented. No doubt she was very into the church and volunteering and all of that. But Matt and Lauren soon started having problems in their marriage. Lauren told her family that Matt had been married before. Matt explained that his ex-wife went on a mission trip. And when she returned, she had an affair.

she packed up her things, told him she didn't love him and left. Well, she was, um, forthright. Honest about this? Yeah, I guess you give her credit for that, not so much for the affair, but I still think it's going to sting no matter what. Exactly. It was reported that Lauren had a close male friend who Matt disapproved of. Apparently he thought this person had feelings for Lauren.

Lauren told him she couldn't control other people and their feelings. Well, essentially, he's right, right? You can't control how people feel about you. You could try to make them realign their thought process, I guess. But at the end of the day, if they're attracted to you, they're attracted to you. Well, my mind is going to, okay, he had this issue with his X, Y. It sounds like he was very leery of maybe it happening again, right? You get burnt once.

do you then become overreactive? I think for sure. A lot of people do. Yeah. But after this confrontation, Matt seemed to change. Lauren noticed that he was depressed. He didn't want to go to church anymore, which bothered her. Josh Agner, Lauren's brother-in-law, was concerned because Matt wasn't acting like himself.

Matt tried different jobs, but quit when he realized he didn't like it. He also started spending a lot of money. Those two things don't seem to go together at all. No, normally you need to have the job and keep the job. To keep the job to go out and spend lots of money. Lauren often turned to her sister Beth and mother to talk about her problems. She told her mom that she was angry and upset because she came home to a messy house and then had to do laundry and cook.

Now, I've said it before. I've been married 27 years. Yeah. And I can tell you right now, if I was sitting home all, day not doing anything, not working, didn't have a job. And my wife was out busting her butt, which she does as a teacher. And then she had to come home and I wasn't pulling my weight as far as cooking, cleaning, whatever. Things are going to go bad real quick for me. Yes. She's not going to allow that to happen. No. You can't blame Lauren. No. For getting upset in a situation like that.

he's spending a lot of money. He can't keep a job and he can't even bother to pick up the house or do laundry, cook, any of that. But it all on her. You know what that's a recipe for? Disaster. Disaster.

It's always a recipe for disaster. Beth Agner told the producers of relatively evil that Matt had a problem with her and Lauren's close relationship. He might have felt like an outsider in the family. six months into the marriage, Lauren agreed to go on a road trip to Bowling Green, Kentucky

with Matt's mom and her husband's parents. They were supposed to do a family photo shoot. Matt's mom asked them both to wear blue for the pictures, but all the women except Lauren were wearing white that day. Matt's mother then said they were going to cancel the pictures. This was very upsetting to Lauren, and she felt like Matt's mom didn't accept her. This lady, you know,

I'm not trying to put her down, but she sounds like a piece of work. She reminds me of the mother-in-law movie. I think it's just mother-in-law. Monster-in-law. Monster-in-law, yeah, with Jane Fonda. Yeah. Yeah. We're just like whatever she can do to try to upset.

J-Lo. Her son's wife. Yeah. That's what she's going to do. Saminage. And there are some mother-in-laws like that. Yeah. Insert mother-in-law joke here.

So you have. kind of this whole dynamic. Actually, a couple of them. One, between Lauren and Matt, it's not going great. Lauren doesn't seem to get along with her mother-in-law at all. Nope. Doesn't sound like it's her fault, but it's just more of a fact. Back at home, Matt started spending more time alone and writing in a journal.

According to Detective Terry Jackson, he had self-esteem issues and was unsure about, about his relationship with Lauren and why she would stay with him. Again, a lot of people have self-esteem issues. They do. That's very common. Low self-esteem and to be worried about a relationship. You know,

maybe it has something to do with the fact that his first marriage ended the way it did. Right. But here's how you don't help that situation out. Not keeping a job. Yeah. Not helping out around the house. If you're so unsure and worried about it, wouldn't you think you'd bust your ass? I would think so.

To help out. Yeah. And make sure that your wife is happy. It doesn't sound like he was doing that. Just sitting around dwelling about it. And writing in his journal that he's worried about it. Yeah. Matt stole money from the couple's vacation fund and from Lauren's purse.

Lauren called her mother in tears and told her she had enough to pay the bills that month, but didn't have any more money. And she didn't know what to do. Lauren started the marriage with around $10,000 in savings. Now, everything she had totaled up to around $1,000. Again, I don't want to harp on it, but that's going to happen when you have another person in the house spending a bunch of money and not pulling their weight. Absolutely.

Not contributing. Beth told relatively evil, I know my sister was fighting for this marriage. She might have been frustrated. She might have been at her wits end. She might have not known what to do next, but she didn't want it to end in divorce. She's trying to do the right thing. Well, you know, what I get from it. And again, some of this comes from other people, but that's all we really have to go by.

I get from it that, you know, she's really trying to make it work. And he's not trying at all, but yet he's profoundly worried that she's going to leave him. Something doesn't make sense in that equation. according to detective Terry Jackson. One day Lauren came home from work and texted Matt that a salesperson came to the house. Matthew used to work with this woman doing door-to-door sales. All right. Kind of interesting.

We don't have a lot of context into that, but I think you can read into it a little bit. Yeah, you can make the inference that maybe she was there to see Matt, maybe the two of them were seeing each other. I don't know. by March 2017, there were significant problems in the marriage. When Lauren reviewed their credit card statements, she saw that Matt had spent over $1,200 on video games in the past month. He had $1,100 on other gift cards. Man, I'm telling you right now, if your wife saw that you spent $1,200 on video games,

she'd be telling me to come pick you up. Pick my body up. Yeah. Yeah. Now, it's one thing if you have some excess money and that's your passion or that's your outlet because I do spend some money on video games, not a crazy amount. Right. But when you don't have a job, you're in credit card debt up to your eyeballs and your wife is working her rear end off trying to keep everything afloat and you spend $1,200 in one month. We just said her assets totaled like $1,000.

Yeah. He spent more than that in one month on video games. Okay. Yeah. I think significant problems might even be an understatement. Lauren went to her family and told them that she was done. She gave her mother and sister approval to confront Matt. This seemed to help.

And Matt and Lauren agreed to make a plan going forward. For a few weeks, they worked on fixing their marriage and things seemed better. So I did think that was a little strange. I'm sure she had confronted him on a bunch of occasions. Yeah. I'm just going to make that assumption. That hadn't worked. So she enlisted the help of her mother and her sister.

Maybe that was a point of embarrassment for Matt. Well, I would hope so. If you're a grown-ass man and you're not taking care of your business. Yeah. To the point where your mother-in-law and sister-in-law, I'll come to you and say, what in the world are you doing? Or shape it up, buddy. And he already has low self-esteem.

Sure. He admitted that, you know, in his journal writings, that's not going to help it. Good Morning America reported that two months before she died. Lauren revealed details about Matthew's previous marriage. She told her family about claims that he assaulted his first wife and lied to her about the nature of the separation. So it's coming out. he's not such a great guy after all. Well, I think, right, in his story, his original story, he was kind of the sympathetic figure.

She came back from this mission. She cheated on him and she left. Book Truitt, Matt's ex-wife, talked with the show relatively evil and said that it was Matt who cheated on her. One incident occurred while they were dating. Matt laughed and said he was going home for the night when he returned the next day. He told her he kissed another woman. Before they got married, he was also involved with another girl.

Matt begged for forgiveness and she forgave him. Brooke also said that Matt spent money on things they couldn't afford. So he's got a problem for sure with spending. Yeah, I mean, and go back to this door-to-door saleswoman. Does it possibly provide a little more context into maybe what was going on? We don't know for sure. but now it's coming out that he has a history of these things. So we've talked about Lauren's frustrations and the fact that she talked to her mother,

her sister. The one person who didn't know everything that was going on was her father, Dale. No one in the family told him because they were afraid of what he might do. And man, do I get that? There are things that I find out later that my wife and girls don't tell me because they're afraid of how I'm going to react, not against them. Yeah. These are things done to them by other people.

And they're afraid that I'm going to go down to the school and confront somebody or show up at my wife's work and confront somebody because you know, I like doing that. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I think they're just want to make sure their dad doesn't go away for a little bit. Catch a charge. Yeah. Well, I can only speak for myself. But there is something that, boy,

boils up inside me when somebody has done something to hurt my girls, whether it's, you know, mostly verbal. Now, if it's physical, we're in a different realm. Right. I'm just talking about verbally or, you know, some, some type of wrong that has come upon them. I can get very upset. And a lot of fathers can. Absolutely. We're protected. Yeah, that's what we do. On the evening of August 31st, 2017. One of Matt's old coworkers came to the home. This woman asked Matt if he would go with her to help her with something. Lauren was upset and angry. She talked to her sister Bath about what happened and said that Matt wasn't answering her calls or texts. He finally answered her an hour later. Well, I'll say this. If your female co-worker shows up at your house,

it says, I need you to come with me somewhere and you leave without telling your wife, what's going on and then you don't answer your phone or text messages, it's going to be a big problem. I can't even envision a scenario where a female coworker would have come to my house and I would have left. Right. Especially without even telling your wife, why? I can't even imagine what I, what valid reason I could have come up with. Yeah. But this was said to have been Lauren's breaking point. She continued texting her sister and said something to the effect of, I'm, I'm, over it, I'm done. He's bringing me down and he's ruining my life. And I've got to be honest with you, it sounds like he kind of was. Yeah. I mean, this was not a good husband to say the least.

Not the type of life that she thought it would be. No, and nobody does, right, when you get married. But that's kind of the problem. You know, there's the before marriage, everything's great. And then there's the marriage and then there's living together and that's when a lot of times things start to come out that you realize, oh, I don't like that about this person. The old post honeymoon phase. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And that really can rack a lot of marriages. Beth Agner told Good Morning America, I think that night when he laughed with another woman, she just said, I'm done. I can't do it. that was the night he killed her. I think that he made a decision that day that Lauren was not going to leave him, even if that meant he had to kill her. Well, we've heard stories like this before where these individuals just, you know,

they can't let go. And they're not willing to let go. If I can't have you, nobody's going to have you. Yeah, we've heard it too many times. I just don't know what this guy thought was going to happen. when you treat someone your wife the way that that he treated Lauren, nothing good is going to happen. What's her incentive to stay?

No, nothing. And she's got every incentive to leave. On September 1st, 2017, Matthew Phelps called 911 just after 1 10 a.m. The following quotes come from the news and observer. Matt gave his address, name, and phone number, and we played some of it. right, that was just a brief version. Matt claimed that he woke up from a dream, turned on his bedroom light, and found Lauren dead on the floor. And then that's when he gets into there's blood all over me. There's a bloody knife on the bed. I think I did it. At one point, Matt said, I can't

believe I did this. I can't believe I did this. He tearfully said that Lauren wasn't breathing and he was afraid to get close to her. He told the dispatcher he took cold medicine before he went to sleep. and you heard it on the audio in the beginning, right? He said, I took more medicine than I should have. I took chorosid and cough and cold because I know it can make you feel good. And sometimes I can't sleep at night. Now, what you didn't hear was Matt also said in the call that he had dried blood on his hands. Well, this 911 called certainly doesn't work in his favor.

No, normally when you say, I can't believe I did this. I can't believe I did this. I think I killed my wife. not going to work in your favor. No. But let's talk about the timing of things. So he makes the call at 1.10 a.m. saying that he

woke up and found Lauren dead. He's got dried blood on his hands, which means what? He obviously had to have killed her sometime earlier. Enough time had to have passed where that blood dried on his hands.

Matt was standing on the front steps of the home when the police arrived. the police found Lauren inside their townhouse. She had been stabbed numerous times, and Lauren was pronounced dead at the hospital. Detective Terry Jackson found blood on the bed, comforter, carpet, and walls. He called it a particularly gruesome scene.

Matthew repeated his claim that he harmed Lauren when he was first taken into custody, according to a search warrant. According to Detective Jackson, they wanted to determine if Matt was in an altered state or not. When he sat down with Matt, he noticed that Matt didn't have all that much blood on him. He didn't believe that Matthew was under the influence of the cold medicine

because he was aware of what was going on and did not seem impaired to the point where he could stab someone and not know that he had done it. Now, I've taken a lot of cold medicine. Yeah. In my life. Me too. I don't know what happens if you take too much, but I can't envision a scenario in which you would

kill your wife and have no idea that you had done it based on cold medicine alone. Yeah, I can't imagine that either. I know they've made it very hard to get nowadays, you know, between cold medicine, Sudafed, all that stuff. Some of that you can use to make meth or whatever it is. now when you walk into the pharmacy, you can't just grab some of these medicines. No, you got to sign them out. No, no, they keep them in like a Gringot's vault.

Right. You got to solve a Rubik's Cube. We do. Recite the Gettysburg Address. There's a lot of hoops. In reverse. To jump through. Yeah.

Before they will give you some of these medications. A little after 6 a.m. that morning, Matthew was charged with murder. His 911 call was made public that same day. And I wonder what, you know, people would think. I actually don't wonder. I think I kind of know. You hear that 911 call. Nothing about it sounds good.

No. As far as his guilt, right? Doesn't sound good. There's going to be an immediate bias towards this guy by anyone that hears that call. Matthew made his first court appearance on September 5th. He was charged with first degree murder. According to the news and observer, Matthew's lawyer, Joseph Blunt Cheshire the 5th, described him as a young man who has so far lived a very full life.

Cheshire. It's a heck of a name. It is. And the fifth. And, yeah, there's five of them then, right? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, if he's the fifth, I guess.

He also asked the public to withhold judgment until more was known. And I get that from an attorney's perspective. you do want the public to withhold judgment, but a lot of people have already heard this 911 call, they're judging like crazy. For sure they are. I'm trying to figure out this. He's lived a full life. Yeah, I didn't understand that either.

Sitting on the couch playing games all day. He's at the full life part. But what does that have to do with guilt, innocence, the murder of his wife? Nothing. He's lived a full life so far. Okay. Well, good for him. If anything, it's like you're saying.

Okay. If he gets the death penalty, it's okay. Yeah. Because he's lived a very full life. Cheshire said that the effects of the cold medicine were certainly an interesting subject of inquiry. When asked by a reporter if Matthew had any remorse, he said he's going through a terrible trauma. And attorneys are very good, right, at picking their words. They have to be. They don't pick their names, but they can pick their... Yeah. And here it's like, okay, you can tell he's kind of throwing out the cold medicine as though that's going to be important.

And it is. We know it is when it comes to trial. But he doesn't really answer the reporter's question. No. He just says he's dealing with the terrible trauma, which is true. Now, he may have caused that trauma, but he kind of skirts around the whether or not he feels remorseful. By the way, I love our chest shy.

our Patreon members. So I just won't get that out there. Gotcha. Matt did not enter a plea at his first court appearance, but people reported on September 7th that Matt pleaded not guilty. Matt's lawyer, Joseph Cheshire, told people, Matthew's family and all of us at my firm really send our deep condolences to the family

of the young lady who died and to her family. It's a very tragic situation, sad and tragic for both families. And at the same time, we have to ask everybody to withhold judgment in this particular case until we know more and we're able to develop more. There's a lot to this story, I believe, that will be told in the future. But I don't want anything I say to diminish the sadness and sorrow that everyone feels for the death of this lovely young lady. And those are all good sentiments, what I found to be kind of cold was the fact that he didn't use her name. Right.

In the first part, no, in both parts, he said, this young lady. Well, that young lady had a name. And it has a name. But why wouldn't he want to use it? It's almost like he doesn't want to humanize, Warren. Yeah, I think that's a great take. I still think it's cold, but is it also calculating on his part? and I'm sure it probably is.

Oh, for sure it is. Christopher Loder, a spokesman for the Bayer Corporation, which manufactures Corsese issued a statement stating that there is no evidence to suggest the medication is associated with violent behavior.

I almost think that's the medicine that they tell you to take if you have high blood pressure. So it's like it doesn't have like some of the other things. It's something that would make you potentially well, never to kill somebody.

but, you know, that would... Yeah, I don't know if course Eden is one of those, but again, have I ever taken a large amount of cough medicine? Probably not. Have I taken more than a recommended dose? I'm sure I have. If anything, cough medicine just always makes me very tired. Right.

I mean, have I had a few shots of NyQuil, Benadryl, anything in it would drill, real? But like you said, it just made me tired. But you could see why the Bear Corporation would want to come out and say, hey, absolutely. This Corcyden's not going to make somebody kill somebody. Let's separate us from this right now. Bear's statement read, according to people, Bear extends our deepest sympathies to this family.

Patient safety is our top priority. And we continually monitor adverse events regarding all of our products. There is no evidence to suggest that Corccedon is associated with violence. behavior. So they're really trying to to hammer that home. Stephanie Ferreri, a professor at UNC Chapel Hills Eschelman School of Pharmacy, told the news an observer that dextromythorfen, a cough suppressant found in Chorcedon and other cold medications can induce closed-eye hallucinations, out-of-body experiences, and even temporary psychosis. I guess you got to take a lot of it to get there then. I don't know, but that's a little scary. She told the paper, there have been

questions about whether it should be sold over the counter. The food and drug administration has been considering if it should go behind the counter like they have done with other medications that contain pseudofedrine. Well, a few more instances like this, they will have it behind the counter. I'm not sure they don't in some places already. Ferreari said that cough medicines can be used for recreational purposes because they are easily accessible and can cause feelings of euphoria. The recommended dosage of medicines

containing DXM is 30 milligrams twice daily. Dossages over 120 milligrams by a 29-year-old healthy person could cause hallucinations, euphoria, agitation, an out-of-body experience, and even psychosis. She also noted that an older person with a slurricular, slower metabolism could take a proper dose and still have side effects. All right. That's scary since you and I are quote unquote older persons.

Especially you. Especially me. She's saying even if you take the recommended dose, you could still have some of these things. Now I have to be even more careful. After reading a story about Phelps, James Johnston, a man from Illinois, called the news an observer to report that over 30 years earlier, he almost choked his wife to death. After taking NyQuil at bedtime, listening to the 911 call reminded him of waking up to find that he was trying to choke his wife.

He said, I had her in a headlock. I was really trying to choke her. She was screaming and hollering. He also said that on a previous occasion, when he took NyQuil before bed, he dreamed of fighting someone. I would raise my leg as high as I could to kick somebody, but I was kicking. the bet. We realized it was the NyQuil. I've never taken it again, and I have never had a problem since. Imagine. I know it's not funny. Right. But waking up and you got your wife in a headlock. From NyQuil. From NyQuil. Yeah. I mean, you know, these are not like off-the-wall medications. Do you know how many people take NyQuil?

A lot. I don't actually take Korsetan, but I mean, I know it's somewhat popular. Yeah. And I'm sure I take something that has that same ingredient in it. For sure you do. Even if it's a different brand name. Now, he's talking about 30 years earlier. I don't know what was in NyQuil 30 years before this. At one point, didn't Coke have like some cocaine in it?

Yeah, early years. Early, early years. I know, bring back the original Coke. No. On September 25th, 2017, a grand jury indicted Matthew Phelps for first-degree murder, the jury found enough probable cause to determine that Matthew willfully, unlawfully, and felonously did of malice of forethought kill and murder Lauren Hugelmark. On October 5th, the news and observer reported that investigators found what appeared to be bloody bedding in an empty cold medicine box inside the home.

According to a search warrant, made public on the 4th, the police obtained a search warrant at 427 a.m. and seized the white bedspread, a white sheet, a gray-white comforter in pillowcases. Investigators also took an empty box of Corseed and Colden cough, a knife block set, a Dell laptop, two MacBooks, an iPhone, a large Apple computer, receipts, credit cards, and a mortgage statement. Then on October 17th, Lauren's autopsy report was made public. Gibbs, she suffered 123 stab wounds and cuts when she was attacked in the bedroom of her home.

Pathologists documented 44 cuts and stabs around her head and neck, some of which they said were more than four inches deep, not four inches lengthwise. Right. Deep. Four inches deep. That's from that rage. I've used it a long time. Yeah.

Well, I think that's where we would go. Now, he's going to say it was the cough medicine, right? It was said that the injuries were thought to have been made with a kitchen knife. Lauren also had 13 stab wounds and 11 cuts on her torso, 16 slashes and one stab wound on her right arm, and 35 cuts and three stab wounds on her left arm. A stab wound on the left side of her neck severed her left jugular vein and her left. common carotid artery. So, you know, we talked about the detective saying that this was a very gruesome scene. And you're going to have a lot of blood.

Yeah. When you're severing the jugular, the carotid, emergency workers found Lauren in a fetal position on the bedroom floor. She died in the emergency department of WakeMed at 143 a.m. According to the autopsy report, according to Lauren's family member's statements, in the show relatively evil. Lauren was asleep on her side. When Matt entered the bedroom and stabbed her,

he rolled her over and stabbed her in the face. According to Detective Jackson, based on some of the injuries, they believe Lauren tried to defend herself. And that would make sense. We just detailed out that she had quite a large number of cuts and stab wounds on her left and right arm. Yeah.

Defensive wounds were sure. Indicative of, you know, somebody trying to put their arms up to stop somebody. In April 2018, newly unsealed search warrants revealed that Matthew was obsessed with the movie American Psycho and had a secret Instagram account with the username at Marty underscore Radical. Matthew posted scenes from the American Psycho movie on this account and also posted photos of himself dressed as the main character of the movie.

And I'm sure you've seen that movie, right, Gibbs? Christian Bell in it, right? Yeah. Yeah, it's a good movie. Yes, it is. It's scary. It's gruesome, but it's a good movie. There were more images about Satan and other themes involving death.

According to Lori Hugelmire, Matthew wrote in one post on this account, everyone thinks I'm a serial killer. Hashtag found an angel to kill. Okay. Now, what are people going to make of that? I assume everybody's going to think that he's talking about his wife. Yeah. I mean, found an angel to kill.

And then you turn out to murder your wife. Kind of hard not for people to put that together. Right. A detective wrote, according to Fox News, it was learned that Matthew Phelps was obsessed with the movie American Psycho. And this Instagram account showed numerous photographs of scenes from the movie and Phelps dressed as the main character. And for anyone who hasn't seen it, right?

The movie's about a serial killer. And apparently it came out that Matthew Phelps expressed interest to a friend about what it would be like to kill someone. Is there anything that's going on in this guy's life that's making him look good? No. Because if there is, I haven't found a single thing. Look, I've watched a lot of shows like that. I've been here doing this podcast.

with you, with all these killers. All the research that we do. Yeah, I have never thought, wonder what it's like to kill someone. No. But it's a scary thought that there are individuals out there who do think about it. Oh, yeah. More than we realize.

Yeah. That's a scary one. According to these documents, Matthew's friends told detectives that Matthew and Lauren would argue frequently and were experiencing financial troubles. I kind of knew that, but the friends were backing that up. In an application to search Matthew's cell phone, the police wrote that Lauren's family said she and Matt texted and talked on the phone the night she died.

Lauren was angry that Matthew was out late. The application states, as reported by WRAL, interview suggests the couple was arguing over finances and that the victim was preparing to end the relationship. Lauren's family also told the police that Matthew was spending more money than the couple made. And Lauren took drastic steps to cut his spending. So to me, this is all important stuff.

Lauren ends up dead. Even Matthew admits that he killed her. Now, he blamed the cough medicine or cold medicine, but when all of these things start to come out, she'd had enough. Right. She told her family she was planning to end the relationship. relationship. She took drastic steps to cut his spending. Sounds like motive to me. Big chunk of motive. Investigators also obtained a sample of Matthew's blood to test it for narcotics and a hair sample

because Lauren was found with hair in her hand. Detectives reported finding evidence that led them to believe Matthew might have cleaned himself up before making the 911 call. And that's an interesting angle because to me, if you took that step, that goes a long way towards refuting your, I just woke up, I was under the influence of all this cough medicine. I must have killed my wife. Yeah. But yet then you went and cleaned yourself up. If you cleaned yourself up, it was probably part of the plan. Well, it makes it seem like it.

Yeah. At least. Matthew's toxicology report came in a few weeks after his arrest, while cold medicine was found in his system. It was found to not be enough to cause hallucinations. Detective Terry Jackson also discovered that in the week leading up to Lauren's death, Matt was Googling about Coors Eden and what happens if you mix it with alcohol? Here again, Google always comes back to bite people in the end. It really does. And this is not 20 years ago. No. How does someone not know in 2007?

that police are going to be able to figure out what you were Googling. I mean, it's not real damaging, but it's still damaging, right? Because you could say, well, I was looking it up.

I wanted to see if I could have me some beers with it. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's not like bombshell type stuff. Right? It's not like you were looking up how to create a homemade pipe bomb. Right.

And the police think you detonated this pipe bomb. It's not that. You could explain it away. But when you add it to the other things. Yes. You have to stack everything on top of each other. And when you do, boy, it just doesn't look good. On October 5th, 2018,

Matthew Phelps pleaded guilty to first degree murder and was sentenced to life in prison without parole. He pleaded guilty as part of a deal to avoid the death penalty. And you know what that tells me that he knew. Yeah. There was no way that he was going to be acquitted of this. The cough medicine defense was not going to hold up. And he did not want the death penalty.

I just don't think juries are that naive. No, I think when you look at just even the evidence that we have. But think about all the evidence that would have come out at trial. And there would have been a lot more, I'm sure. Stack all of that up against the, I can't really tell you what, happened other than I took a bunch of cold medicine and I woke up and she was dead. Lauren's father, Dale Hougal Meyer, said in court, according to WRAO, how could he do this to us when we treated him like a son? Dale said that when Matthew asked to marry Lauren, he made him

promise to protect her. Dale told Matthew, it does give me satisfaction, knowing that your life is going to be hard every day, a living hell. If that gives her dad a little bit of solace, then good. Well, I'm sure he would love to have his daughter back. Absolutely. But obviously, that can't happen. At the very least, I think, you know, he wants Matthew to suffer for what he did to Lorne.

Wake County ADA Kristen Fedder suggested that Matt and Lauren were having money problems. And Matthew could not control his. spending. Investigators found $1,200 worth of iTunes and Xbox subscriptions. That's a lot of gaming, huh? It's a lot of gaming. It's a lot of music. It's a lot. Prosecutors displayed the murder weapon and described how Lauren was stabbed. ADA Fedder also noted Matthew's secret Instagram account. Detectives found that Matthew may have been possibly fascinated with and Mimit, a portrayed serial killer character from the movie American Psycho. This is according to ABC 11. So they did seem to make a big deal about that.

Sure. And that's a problem for our defense. Well, and it goes along with, you know, you've got the friend who said, he told me he wanted to know what it was like to kill someone. You've got the hashtag, I found an angel to kill. Again, just, you know, kind of add all this stuff up. Testing showed that Matthew did not take a toxic level of cold medicine. Prosecutor said at the hearing that Matthew made a calculated effort to clean Lauren's blood, which discredited his theory that he killed Lauren because he took too much cold medicine. Prosecutors also noted that when Matthew was interviewed, he showed little emotion and didn't cry.

So again, back to your point, you know, if you're cleaning the crime scene, if you're trying to clean yourself before you make this 911 call, what are people going to make of that? Yeah. You took the time to clean yourself off. And she died at the hospital. Exactly. I'm not saying that she could have been saved, but. Every minute counts. And then even if the cough medicine story was true, you're not going to show emotion.

you're not going to cry over the fact that your wife is dead. I mean, this just really says so much about you. Especially if you say, I think I did it because of the cough medicine. I mean, I'm assuming when you look at her body, knowing that she's been stabbed over 130 some times,

it's going to be pretty horrific. Yeah. You should be audibly and visibly. A wreck. Yeah. Traumatized. Yeah. Matthew made a statement,

court, he said according to ABC 11, I am sorry that I took Lauren's life away. This was a senseless and mindless act, and I regret every step that led me in that direction. I consider my own life worth nothing in the shadow of the tragedy, weighing over my mind, and on the hearts of so many people in this room today. I feel like a monster. I hope my life will be an example of the consequences for those who think that drinking, drugs and carelessness will only affect themselves and no one else. I hope you will begin to see that I am doing everything I can from here to show you that

I am sorry. So the first part of that, I thought, okay, that's pretty good. It may be BS, but it's the right thing to say. But then after saying he feels like a monster, then he hedges it, right, by talking about drinking, drugs, carelessness. He used the word carelessness, as though he was chopping up carrots in the kitchen and turned around too fast and

stabbed her. 130 some times is not carelessness. No, it's not. It's, you know, on purpose. So I think if you're the family, you know,

you've got to be frustrated. I think by this statement, on the one hand, it sounds like he was. trying to say the right thing, but he really kind of ruined it, in my opinion, by kind of going back to the cough medicine theory. Matthews' attorney Joe Cheshire said his client had suffered from depression for years. He was shown slasher movies when he was just four years old and was taught by his friends in high school how to abuse drugs, including drinking cold medicine.

However, Cheshire said that didn't excuse Matt's action. Well, that I agree with. Now, should a four-year-old be watching, you know, Michael Myers and Jason and Freddie? I would say no. No. It's not good. Did he drink cold medicine in high school and abused drugs? He probably did.

Lauren's family spoke with Good Morning America after the sentencing to warn other families about the signs of domestic violence. Dale Hougal Meyer said he planned the whole thing from the get-go, in my opinion, right from day one to the end. The last time I saw my daughter, she came over looking for a three ring binder. She was nervous and a little edgy. And it didn't look like Lauren at all. She looked like a mess.

I regret it now. Then I didn't ask questions about what was going on. Gibbs, how many times in our episodes do we talk about regret? Yeah, we talk about a lot. Second guessing regrets. Why didn't I do this? I should have done that.

What ifs? What ifs, right? There's just no way around it. Here you have a father who after the fact says, yeah, I knew something just wasn't right. And man, do I wish I would have asked some questions? Yeah, but also you have to realize you don't think it's going to get to the level that this got. Oh, nobody does. No.

Nobody does. There's all kinds of days when, you know, my daughters are having bad days, right? Sometimes they want to talk about it. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes I press them on it. Sometimes I don't. Now, if a tragedy happened, I would feel guilty about not pressing. Could I have found something out that would have caused me to take action?

That's just, it's just going to happen in the wake of this type of tragedy. Dale said that Lauren was being abused and was too afraid to tell anyone. He said, I think about it every day. What I did wrong, what I missed. this day. I just regret not knowing or keeping my eyes open and watching. I just took everything as it. And I think, you know, that's part of the issue that the families of victims had. You know, we're all going about our daily lives. It's true. She wasn't living under their roof. So they weren't seeing her every day. And it's really so incredibly wrong to find any fault in what they did or didn't.

do. Oh, of course. But they're going to fill the guilt. Yes, they will. And there's just no way around that. When asked about forgiving Matthew, Dale said, no, never. I mean, I'll take him to my grave and I'll still hate him. Okay. Now, this is more like me. Yes. You know, we talk about people who are able to forgive and I'm always amazed at it. I think they're, they're amazing people to be able to do that. I don't think that's me. I think I'm more like Dale. I think you are. I will never forgive. I'll take you to my grave and I'll still hate you when I'm in the ground. You do hold a grudge for a very long time. And that's over minor things. Yeah. One time you parked on my grass, I didn't talk to you for a month outside of the podcast.

Yeah, that was kind of difficult. It was a rough month. So in wrapping this case up, Gibbs, you know, it seems as if Matthew Phelps hit his true self until after he married Lorne, including his poor, financial management and emotional issues. He caused Lauren a lot of stress and unhappiness during their short marriage. It seems as though Matthew couldn't handle it when Lauren decided to leave him and he viciously attacked her while she slept in their home. And I do believe that, you know, he planned it. Yeah. Now, Dale says he planned it from day one. I don't know about that. I do think it was more of a it got to the point where she wasn't going to stay with him and like you said earlier more of a if I can't have you nobody can exactly type of deal but I think the the Googling of the

core seed and the attempt at cleaning up before making the 911 call all of that kind of leads me to think that you know this was a plan right this was planned out he was going to kill her. He was going to take a bunch of cough medicine. Blame it on the cough. And blame it on the cough medicine. It didn't work. No. And it was senseless, right? These murders are always senseless. I always kind of go to, you know, what could have been. Okay, she leaves. Right. Not great for him. No. But you're not sitting in a prison for the rest of your life. Yeah. Can you get over it? Can you move on? Can you find somebody else? move in with a friend, a family member for a period of time, get back on your feet and make a new life. But for whatever reason, some of these people don't think like that.

No, they can't let go. There's no getting over adversity. And let's not forget, he caused it all. He did. You know, I think she really wanted this marriage to work. And he just wouldn't do anything. No. that it would have taken to make it work.

Stop spending money you're not making. Go out and get a job, keep a job. Help out at home. Pick up your shit. Cook a meal now and then. Not really that much to ask. It's really not. And I'm sure she would have been fine with him doing a few things here and there.

Not everything. Just don't put it all on me. Well, you know, I will admit 100% that my wife has always done more than me. Yeah. And I'll admit it. She's amazing. The one thing I will say is that it took a little bit of time for me to figure out marriage, to figure out that, you know, I need to do this and this and this. Now, some of that was her telling me. Sure. That, hey, get off your ass. Do this, do that. And you need to help me out. But it wasn't an overnight process. Because I, I am used to doing things on my, own terms. Right. My wife likes to have things done on her terms. Of course. So I have had to change my ways a little bit to make her happy. But if you want a marriage to work, both people are going to have to change a little bit. Absolutely. Got a give and take, man. Yeah. I just see this Matthew

Phelps as just a selfish guy. Yeah. I think maybe there was a little bit of a fascination with murder, not like most of us in the true crime community have. This was more of a, I want to know what it's like to be this Christian bell character. Exactly. I want to find out what it's like to murder something. Yeah. And obviously he never heard of the old saying what,

happy wife, good life or happy life? Yeah, something along those life. Yeah. Happy wife equals a happy life. Yep. Yeah. But that's it for our episode on Matthew Phelps.

We've got some voice. voicemails Gibbs. You're going to check those out. Let's hear them. Hey, Mike, and give you. It's Eric in Dallas. A long-time T-Cat fan. Just listen to your episode on Dale Wayne Eaton. Have a indirect connection to that case. I was married. My ex-wife was actually his niece. And so Richard Eaton was my ex-father-in-law. So obviously, it was very fascinated by the case. I never knew him. I never knew him after this had happened, but I meant knowledgeable of the case, you know, and I've been a true crime fan forever. So love what you guys do and the way you handle the case.

Very interesting. But, yeah, very sad what happened to that girl and just horrible. So thanks for all you guys do and keep your own time and keep on ticket. All right. Thanks for sending in the voicemail. And again, I'm always fascinated because, you know, we talk about these individuals who commit, you know, these heinous crimes. Well, there's a lot of connections to them. Yeah. Through family and this and that. And it's interesting to hear from those people. And we've heard from quite a few of them, you know, what do they think? I let you know. Yeah. Hi guys, this is Josephine from Denmark. I am just calling because I wanted to let you guys know that I really appreciate everything you do and all of the hard work that you put into the podcast. I have been listening for four years now, I think, since mid-2018. Don't hold me up on the math on that one. So I'm an old-time listener and I, I still listen religiously. So I just wanted to tell you that I love you guys and

stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Bye-bye. That's a good voicemail. Yeah, from Denmark. We do have a big following in Denmark, Sweden, you know, places over there. What they call that? Scandinavia.

That's right. Just want to make sure you knew. Okay. Oh, you're too much for me. All right. No mail bag. No mail? No, no mail.

We haven't, we haven't had mail in a while. I haven't had Twizzlers a long time. I know. You're probably Jones in for some, you know you could buy your own Twizzlers. No. You don't have to wait for people. It's not the same. To Amazon them to you.

It's not the same. They don't taste. Those free ones taste are really good. They do. Everything free tastes good. The meal that I provide you every week is probably really taste. That's a meal with the week. All right, buddy.

That is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.