True Crime All The Time - Melissa Merritt

Episode Date: July 21, 2025

In less than five years, Bill Harrison, his wife Bridget, and their son Caleb all died in the same home. The first death was ruled natural, the second suspicious, but the third was immediatel...y declared a homicide. The police looked to Caleb’s ex-wife, Melissa Merritt, who was in the middle of a custody battle with Caleb and his parents. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Melissa Merritt. The police zeroed in not only on Melissa but also on her boyfriend, Christopher Fattore. As they untangled a web of deceit, one of the biggest questions that arose was how much culpability each person bore.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

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Starting point is 00:00:33 Hello everyone and welcome to episode 444 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey, I'm doing okay. How about you? I'm doing great. You're always doing great, man. You've got a big vacation coming on.
Starting point is 00:00:50 I do. We're kind of on the fence as to whether we're going to just tape one early or take a week off. Yeah. So, you know, if you don't see an episode coming out. next Sunday, then you know we took the week off. Because I'm on vacation. Going overseas, which is a big trip for you. I'll be in Greece.
Starting point is 00:01:12 I'm happy for you. I'm happy too. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Kenna Schoonover. What's going on? Schoonover. Melissa Heinzel. Thanks, Heinzel.
Starting point is 00:01:21 I don't even know what you said there. Rob B. What up, Rob? Mitzie Berticini. Ah, Berticini. Molly C. Hey, Molly. Benjamin Jaffey.
Starting point is 00:01:34 You know, there was a good orthopedic surgeon named Jaffey in this area when I was younger. Okay. That's a great pod story. I know, man. Hey, how you doing, Jaffe? Christine Sallberg. What up, Sallberg? Kevin Seaman.
Starting point is 00:01:49 Hey, Seaman. And last but not least, Lori Pepesky. Pupesky. Yeah, fun names to say. They are. Then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Lisa Rodriguez. Well, thanks, Lisa.
Starting point is 00:02:02 Yeah, so we appreciate all the support. Gibbs right now we have a brand new episode out on true crime all the time unsolved. Where we're talking about Heather Teague, she went sunbathing on the shore of the Ohio River and was attacked and abducted by an unknown man. And this was 29 years ago and her case still hasn't been solved. You a big sunbather? I am not. Ever back in your day?
Starting point is 00:02:29 No. No? You look like you'd be a sunbather back in the day. No, I never was a lay out in the sun person. My wife is, my daughters are. Now, I would get son mowing the grass or playing baseball or whatever it was, but playing basketball, but not just laying there. You didn't lay out by the pool and take that baby oil and just rub it all over you? No.
Starting point is 00:02:53 No. Chris Go, you know, really. I don't think that's good for you. All right, buddy. You ready to get into this episode of True Crime All of the time? time. I'm ready. We're talking about Melissa Merritt. In less than a five-year span, Bill Harrison, his wife, Bridget, and their son, Caleb, all died in the same home. The first death was ruled natural. The second, suspicious, but the third was immediately declared a homicide. And police began to look at Caleb's
Starting point is 00:03:26 ex-wife, who was in the middle of a custody battle with Caleb and his parents. The Harrison family, and family lived in the suburbs of Toronto, Ontario. Relatives said, the Harrison household was a home of happiness. Bill and Bridget hosted countless get-togethers. Got admire those people that do those get-togethers. Yeah, my wife and I are not a big hoster. Hostess, hostess. We don't host a lot of parties.
Starting point is 00:03:57 Yeah, yeah, you're more of a hostee. Yeah, we go to places. That's the way to do it though, right? Because you can leave when you want. Yeah. And there's no cleanup. You bring, if they tell you to bring something, you bring it. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:04:09 And you bring it in a throwaway container, so you don't have to wait around and get it back. Exactly. Bridget Harrison was born in London, Ontario. In 1946, she was an actress and appeared on the TV show Act Fest and performed in plays at the annual Stratford Festival in Ontario. In the early 1960s, she met Bill Harris. who worked in the costume department. They fell in love and gotten married in 1969. The couple settled in Mississauga, Ontario.
Starting point is 00:04:40 That's weird. I was just there two weeks ago for a big soccer tournament. In Mississauga? Mississauga. How about that? Yeah. Bill worked as an executive for Sobees, one of the largest grocery store chains in Canada in his free time.
Starting point is 00:04:54 He volunteered as a Little League baseball coach. It's actually a pretty good grocery store. I've never heard of Sobees. Yeah. But I also have not spent a lot of time in Canada. That is true. Bridget was a teacher and later became a principal. She also served on her district's school board.
Starting point is 00:05:13 Bill and Bridget couldn't have children naturally. They adopted their son Caleb in 1973 when he was six months old. Bill said Caleb was his best friend. If you had to say one of your daughters was your best friend, which one would it be? that is a no-win question. You know I can't answer. But that is pretty cool thing to say, right? Oh, yeah.
Starting point is 00:05:38 Bill saying Caleb was his best friend. After graduating high school, Caleb started working in shipping and receiving. In the fall of 2000, he was working in the warehouse at a store called My Favorite Doll. Never heard of that. Never heard of that either. But it was there. He met Melissa Merritt, a Toronto local. Caleb and Melissa immediately had a strong connection.
Starting point is 00:06:02 Caleb was described as intelligent, sweet, and a hard worker. He drove Melissa to and from work. Their coworkers often saw them kissing in his car before and after their ships. They ate lunch together and had dinner at home together every night. And I think I've said it before, but, you know, my wife and I met at work. I think a lot of people meet their spouses at work. Sure. You are spending a lot of time with them.
Starting point is 00:06:30 You're getting to know them. I mean, you can say you probably spend more time with people at work than you do with family and friends outside of work. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree with that. Caleb's childhood friend Stephanie Dunn told Dateline, she was lovely. She was very, very outgoing. So it just seemed like, where has this girl been?
Starting point is 00:06:54 You know, it was a great match. So she's not mincing words. She really liked Melissa. Melissa met Caleb shortly after she ended her engagement with her high school boyfriend. Although she was only 19, she was ready to get married and have kids. In the winter of 2000, there was a death in Caleb's family. Melissa wanted to go to the funeral to support him and meet his family, but she would need the day off work. She was worried her manager would say no if she put in a request.
Starting point is 00:07:26 So she left a last minute message on her manager's voicemail and said she was going to miss work for the funeral. Melissa was fired when she returned and Caleb quit in solidarity. She goes, I go. And I'm kind of wondering why she didn't do the old fake, you know, I'm sick one. Yeah. Which is what you used to do to me all the time. I can't come in, boss. I'm sick.
Starting point is 00:07:54 It worked. but she may have thought that everybody knows Caleb and I are an item. They know he's leaving for this funeral. They're probably going to put it all together. Within months of meeting Melissa, Caleb told his family they were planning on having kids. Melissa said she lost one of her ovaries due to a medical condition and may need to have the other removed eventually.
Starting point is 00:08:20 So they wanted to have kids while they could. Melissa and Caleb got married and had a son and daughter within a couple of years. Bill and Bridget were excited about being grandparents. Caleb loved being a father, but his marriage with Melissa had problems. They fought over money, family, Caleb's drinking, and Melissa's lives. In the spring of 2004, Melissa told the family she had ovarian cancer. She later admitted to Lyme in an affidavit. David and said she was being treated for assist. And she embellished the situation.
Starting point is 00:08:59 She denied claiming she lost an ovary. Wow. There's a lot of things going on with them at that time. Not good things. No, I mean, but who doesn't fight occasionally over money, family? Now, if Caleb's drinking a lot, okay, that's going to cause some problems. But it sounds like Melissa was lying a lot and had been since the start of their relationship, that's going to cause some problems too. Maybe that's why he was drinking. You never know. Caleb hit Melissa during an argument in 2005.
Starting point is 00:09:34 She reported them to the police and he spent three nights in jail before he was released on personal recognizance. Okay. So, you know, like you said, there's a lot of stuff going on. But I think once it turns physical,
Starting point is 00:09:49 once Caleb hits Melissa. Yeah. We're in a completely different realm. We are. There's really no reason why you should be hitting a woman, let alone your wife. Yeah. Caleb and Melissa split up and he moved back in with his parents. In July 2005, Caleb was invited to a keg party.
Starting point is 00:10:12 He wasn't planning on drinking because one of the conditions of his release was that he couldn't have alcohol. He borrowed his mother's car and offered to be the. the designated driver. Good old cake parties, man. Yeah. I think back on that, that's Frank the Tank days for me. I had to be very careful.
Starting point is 00:10:32 According to Toronto life, Caleb typically went to the bar after work and drank beer before he went home to his parents' house. He didn't usually have a problem with beer, but liquor made him act differently. And I think a lot of people are like that. That's true. You can have some beers, you know. You're fine. Some people start to drink hard liquor and you can go sideways very quickly. Real quick.
Starting point is 00:10:59 The thing for me in hard liquor is that you never know that you've passed that good buzz point. Yeah. Until it's too late. No turning back then. No, you've already passed it and you didn't even know it. So he goes to this party and at the party Caleb had one drink, which led to multiple drinks until he was nearly three times over the legal limit. His friends realized he was too drunk to drive.
Starting point is 00:11:28 They refused to get into the car with him and started walking home. Now, I understand that. You don't want to be in the car with this guy who's drinking. No. But my feeling is, like, you got to step in and not let this guy drive. Try your best not to let him drive. Yeah, try your best. I don't know if they did that or not because Caleb was driving down the road.
Starting point is 00:11:51 when a cab carrying four men driven by Michael Raymond approached in his direction. Caleb crossed the center line and crashed into the taxi head on at 100 kilometers per hour, about 62 miles per hour. For those of us, you know, who don't really understand the metric system, Michael Raymond died in the accident. And this is why you don't drive drunk. Don't do it. Just don't do it.
Starting point is 00:12:20 Call Uber. So this Michael Raymond died. One man suffered a broken arm, broken leg, and fractured spine. Another lost part of his scalp from his eyebrow to his ear. Sounds painful. That does sound painful. Both cars caught on fire. Neighbors were able to help pull the victims from the taxi.
Starting point is 00:12:43 Caleb's friends from the party were just up the street and saw the crash. They were able to pull him out of the car. Caleb had a broken leg, but his injuries were minor compared to the people in the other vehicle. And I just wonder, you know, how his friends felt about that. Did we do enough? Should we have done more? It probably was some guilt there. Probably.
Starting point is 00:13:07 But Caleb was charged with impaired driving, causing death and bodily harm. He made bail and was ordered to stay on house arrest at his parents' home. That seems like a very serious. serious charge. I mean, number one, who wants to get a DUI? That's not good on your record, but this is much more than that. Your actions have resulted in the death of one person and have injured a number of other people. Yeah, really severe. Caleb's trial was delayed because his defense attorney was unavailable to represent him for several months. And then the presiding judge got sick. After a year-long delay, his lawyer was still unavailable.
Starting point is 00:13:53 The case was postponed again when the Crown realized it hadn't sent out summons to some witnesses. All right. Taking them a while to get things moving. After three years, Caleb's lawyer argued that his right to a speedy trial was violated and the case should be dropped. But a judge dismissed the motion. And I get it, right? there is a right to a speedy trial. But how are you going to just dismiss this charge when someone is dead?
Starting point is 00:14:27 Yeah, I mean, you have to take care of dealing with that, not just push it to the side. Well, and it also sounds like a lot of the delays were on his part or his attorney's part. So I don't know. I think you have to factor that in as well. Meanwhile, Melissa argued that the crash was proof that Caleb was an unlawful. that Caleb was an unsuitable father, but a family court judge ruled that they would still share custody. What do you think about that?
Starting point is 00:14:55 Does that surprise you? No, I'm not surprised by that. I kind of was. Were you? Yeah, to be honest with you. It seemed like such a heinous act, right? A driving drunk and killing someone.
Starting point is 00:15:12 I could see where a family court might say, well, what if you had your child in the backseat or your kids in the back seat? So valid point. I was, I was a little surprised by them. By this time, Caleb and Melissa were in relationships with people they met online. Caleb was seeing Corinna McEwen, who had two kids. The Harrison's welcomed her and she became close with Bridget. Melissa was dating Christopher Fator, who worked part-time as a security guard.
Starting point is 00:15:44 he was described as doting and protective of Melissa and the kids, and he hated Caleb. And that doesn't shock me one bit. I'm sure Melissa did not speak well of Caleb. I was thinking the same thing, right? I'm sure after everything he heard about Caleb from her, why would he like him? Yeah. I mean, he's going to be filled with nothing but probably comment, bad comment. comments about this guy from Melissa.
Starting point is 00:16:17 While awaiting trial, Chris created a Facebook page, pushing for Caleb to get the maximum sentence. He wrote in one post per Toronto life. This is Caleb Harrison, the dick that killed someone drinking and driving. He's unfortunately also my wife's ex-husband. Not really mincing his word. He's letting you know how he feels. But, okay, take out the dick part.
Starting point is 00:16:43 but he's not wrong. He did kill someone while drinking and driving. Very true. Melissa filed multiple complaints to the Children's Aid Society and the police about Caleb's allegedly poor treatment of the kids,
Starting point is 00:17:00 but few of her allegations could be substantiated. The judge presiding over the custody case suggested Melissa and Caleb only communicate in writing. Melissa complained that she had to accomplish accommodate Caleb and his parents' work schedule and said he dumped the kids on other caregivers when he couldn't care for them. It bothered Melissa that Bill and Bridget were involved in raising the kids and she accused them of neglecting her daughter. She also accused the Harrisons of slapping her son
Starting point is 00:17:33 and withheld the children from the family because she claimed they were dangerous. All right. We often talk about, you know, contentious divorces, contentious. custody situations. This one seems very contentious. Yeah, I don't think there's any love loss here. No, no, probably on either side, right? A judge upheld the shared custody ruling and added a clause that the police should be notified if the Harrisons were denied access to the kids again. At Caleb's drunk driving trial, Melissa and Chris came to court and spoke to the press.
Starting point is 00:18:12 they also blocked the Harrisons in the parking lot. I mean, I said contentious. I mean, this is really kind of vitriolic. Oh, nice. Nice way to phrase that. If I'm using that word correctly. But, you know, Melissa, and I think by extension, Chris, hated not only Caleb, but his mom and dad as well.
Starting point is 00:18:36 On March 9, 2009, Caleb was convicted of one count of impaired drive. causing death and three counts of impaired driving causing bodily harm. He was sentenced to 18 months in prison. And I got to be honest with you. If it's my loved one who's killed by a drunk driver, I am not going to be happy with an 18 month prison sentence. No, it's like a slap on the wrist. I mean, we are in Canada, though.
Starting point is 00:19:08 We know that sometimes they don't have the longest period of time that someone will spend in jail. Yeah, I mean, I think by and large, their sentences are a little shorter than what ours here are in the U.S., but, you know, 18 months, he's probably not going to do the whole 18 months. I would be furious. Yeah. About that. Bill and Bridget filed the motion to transfer Caleb's custody rights to them while he was
Starting point is 00:19:37 incarcerated. A judge granted the motion less than two weeks after sentence. And you know, Melissa couldn't been happy about that. She already was upset about the Harrisons, didn't think they were treating her kids right. And that's just when they got to see them. Now they actually have the same custody rights that Caleb had. On April 16, 2009, Bridget came home around 9 p.m. After a late school board meeting, Bill didn't answer when she called out to him.
Starting point is 00:20:12 A few minutes later, she found Bill dead in the main floor bathroom. She told the dispatcher he was wedged in against the wall. Between the toilet and the door, he's not breathing. I can tell. Bill appeared to have removed his wedding ring, his crucifix necklace, taken out his pocket knife, and brought his blood pressure and pain medication with him to the bathroom. One of the responding officers wrote in his notebook,
Starting point is 00:20:41 sudden death doesn't appear to be any foul play which you know kind of jumped out at me is a little strange also what a horrific scene right to walk in on as a as a spouse but you know what was said about bill he removed his wedding ring took off his necklace he had taken out his pocket knife and he had his blood pressure and pain medication with him in the bathroom. I'm just trying to figure out in what scenario all of those together makes sense. Maybe if he's trying to hurt himself. Right. But sudden death doesn't appear to be any foul play.
Starting point is 00:21:26 That's what the officer wrote that those different things that I just listed, they don't kind of scream out that. Like you said, maybe. you know, did he take a bunch of pills? But if it's sudden death, well, why did he take his wedding ring and his necklace off? Yeah, well, I'd go through all that. So I'm a little up in the air on that one. The police soon learned that in the days leading up to Bill's death,
Starting point is 00:21:57 the children told their teachers they were going on a trip. The Harrisons were not aware of this. On the day Bill died, in violation of the custody order, Chris and Melissa, packed up their things, dyed the kid's hair and disappeared. Okay. Is that suspicious that it happened on the day that Bill died? Well, it is suspicious. I mean, it's going to be hard to prove to somebody why you did something like that.
Starting point is 00:22:28 Well, in this whole idea of the children telling their teachers they were going to take a trip, but the Harrisons hadn't been made aware of this. According to the Toronto Star, Bill died at a critical time for death investigations in Ontario. He died just a few months after the Gouge inquiry. Justice Stephen Gouch released a damning report on pediatric forensic pathology, commissioned by the Ontario government in the wake of revelations about flawed child death investigations by Dr. Charles Smith. Smith was once considered a leading ex-executive. in pediatric forensic pathology, but his false or misleading testimony led to wrongful convictions.
Starting point is 00:23:17 Before the GALs report, non-phorinsic pathologists performed forensic autopsies. After the report, Ontario's chief forensic pathologists created a registry matching pathologists to cases appropriate to their level of experience and issued an order that all suspicious death should be sent to headquarters in Toronto. The problem is no one flagged Bill's death as suspicious. And that probably goes back to, you know, the responding officer. Sure does. Doesn't appear to be foul play, sudden death.
Starting point is 00:23:54 Well, he had no suspicions. But if I look at all the things that Bill was said to have done before he died, you know, I have some suspicions about this being a, a sudden death. I mean, does it mean that, you know, he wasn't going to take a shower? So he took off his ring, his necklace, which most people don't do. No. When they take a shower.
Starting point is 00:24:19 I'm just trying to figure out one possible explanation. Bill Harrison received a non-phorinsic autopsy conducted by a community-based pathologist with no specialty certification in post-mortems. Although Bill had a fractured sternum and bruises on his head, face, and neck, the pathologist concluded he died of acute cardiac arrhythmia. So what was the thought that the bruises and the fractured sternum came from him falling, possibly? I think it's a good possibility. Bill was cremated and his ashes were interred on April 22nd, 2009. Now, Bridget always thought Bill's death was.
Starting point is 00:25:05 suspicious and that Melissa's disappearance was not a coincidence. The day after the funeral, Bridget went to court and was granted temporary sole custody of the children, although at that time, they were still missing. Do you think this ruling was because they'd just taken off with the kids? Yeah, I think it probably had a lot to do with it. On June 15, 2009, Caleb was paroled just three months into a sentence. Okay. So now if I'm family member, I'm really ticked off.
Starting point is 00:25:38 Sure you are. You were driving drunk, killed someone, and you did three months. I get it. It's not the same as shooting someone in the head. But it's also not the same as an accident when you're totally sober that results in somebody's death. Big difference. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:26:00 Three months is too little for me. authorities eventually learned that Melissa and Chris had moved to Londonderry, Nova Scotia. Melissa had her fourth child there. Her second with Chris, Chris assumed a new identity and wasn't caught until he accidentally delivered a rent check in his own name. Melissa was arrested and charged with parental abduction on November 27, 2009. As a condition of her bail, she was not allowed to have conduct. with Caleb or the two children she shared with him. On April 10, 2010,
Starting point is 00:26:39 Caleb and Bridget saw Melissa and Chris outside their house, which was a violation of their bail conditions. Melissa was re-arrested and released on bail a second time. Just not learning, or just doesn't care. Yeah, and I think it goes back to, you know, what the court thought of them just up and leaving and taking the kids. Probably a big reason why Bridget was granted, you know, temporary sole custody and then Caleb
Starting point is 00:27:12 probably would have gotten it right after he got out of jail because it was looked at as a crime, right? Parental Abduction. Her parental abduction trial was scheduled for April 22nd, 2010. Bridget planned to testify and wrote a victim impact statement about how the death of her husband and the abduction of her grandkids affected her saying some people believe in coincidence some do not on april 21st the day before the trial bridget dropped off her grandkids at school and caleb at work when her grandson returned home later that afternoon he found
Starting point is 00:27:53 Bridget's body at the bottom of the stairs he ran across the street to a neighbor's house and called 911. A paramedic entered the house and found Bridget's body. Her head rested on the bottom step and she had visible abrasions. On her chin and ear, she was fully dressed and had shoes on. Her
Starting point is 00:28:13 glasses and purse were scattered around her. It looked like she was heading out the door. First of all, what a terrible sight, you know, for a young kid to see finding his grandmother this way. I think he's night
Starting point is 00:28:29 mirrors are made of. Yeah, but also let's look at the timing. The very day before Melissa's trial is set to start. And we know that Bridget is going to testify. She ends up dead. So talking about coincidences is that either the biggest coincidence in the world or not a coincidence at all. Yeah, not a coincidence at all. Bridget suffered a broken neck. So, several broken ribs and bruises around her throat was evidence of neck compression. And I think, you know, early on, right, you could look at it as maybe a trip and fall down the stairs. Could you suffer a broken neck? Break some ribs. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, possible. But when you start talking about neck compression, that doesn't seem to scream accident.
Starting point is 00:29:28 No. Screams something else, doesn't it? Yeah. Caleb asked the police to look into Melissa and Chris. The PO Regional Police investigated Bridget's death and called Melissa in for questioning. According to Dayline, she told the police that Caleb didn't have a good relationship with Bridget. She added that Caleb was physically violent with her when they were married and was later convicted of domestic assault. Melissa said he was like sneaky about the way he would assault me.
Starting point is 00:30:02 So I know that he has in him a tendency to harm people if they piss him off. She added that she didn't want to make any assumptions about the case. I don't want to make any assumptions, but I'm just saying he didn't like his mom. They didn't have a good relationship. And he could be physically violent. So you make the assumptions. The forensic pathologist who conducted Bridget's autopsy was still completing recommended training. Bridget's death was ruled suspicious, but not a homicide.
Starting point is 00:30:36 Oh, suspicious. I mean, I probably still leaves the door open for investigators. Yes. I mean, that's better than accidental, right? Now, I think at the very least, it has to be suspicious. With the neck compression alone, that has to. to make it suspicious, if not really kind of bordering into homicide. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:31:01 Five days after Bridget died, Caleb was granted temporary sole custody. Melissa was only allowed supervised visits. Caleb fell into a depression after the death of his mother. He separated from his girlfriend and started drinking again. Well, that alcohol is a bad thing, man. It can be, right? When you abuse it.
Starting point is 00:31:22 Some people drink alcohol recreationally, and they have no problem with it. Yeah, doesn't get out of control for them. But it's just like anything, right? Junk food, drugs, alcohol. Some people can use them sparingly. Some people lose control. Yeah. But I do want to talk about Caleb for a moment.
Starting point is 00:31:48 Obviously, he did a really bad thing. And I don't want to gloss over it. He was driving drunk. He killed someone. He injured some other people. I think he got off very lightly. Extremely late. Doing three months.
Starting point is 00:32:03 But he comes out. His father is dead. And now his mom dies. Okay. That's going to be tough to deal with. And I think his coping mechanism must have been alcohol. Seems like it. Right. I mean, definitely had a issue with it. Bridget's brother, Doug Blackwell, was worried that something would happen to Caleb or the children. So he urged Caleb to create a will. Caleb never got around to it. He was too busy raising the kids and working.
Starting point is 00:32:37 Melissa and Chris moved near London, Ontario. They rented a farm and Chris got a job at a poultry plant. They raised goats and pigs and they decided they wanted to be more self-sufficient. and produce what they needed. Melissa also made taffy, candles, crochet bookmarks, and apple cozies to protect apples from getting bruised. Apple cozies. Because, you know, apples get beat up a lot.
Starting point is 00:33:08 She sold all this stuff on her Etsy store. Nobody wants a bruised apple, man. No, but my apples don't get bruised once they enter the home. It's not like, we're abusing the apples. They come from the store, brew sometimes.
Starting point is 00:33:28 Also, do I have to have a cozy for every apple? That's a lot of cozies. I think so. Caleb eventually volunteered to give Melissa unsupervised access to the kids. They spent a week with Chris and Melissa and a week with Caleb. On March 1st, 2012,
Starting point is 00:33:47 Melissa and Chris woke up to a house fire that started in their living room. They were able to escape out their bedroom window with the children. But they lost their house, their dogs, their guinea pig, and their rabbit. Could be some sad kids there.
Starting point is 00:34:03 Yeah, and that's tough, right? To lose your home, to lose your animals, just bad all the way around. Now, luckily,
Starting point is 00:34:12 they were able to get out, they were able to get the children out. They moved into a hotel and started to go fund me. They said, a $50,000 goal and raised about 10%. By 2013, Caleb was back with his girlfriend, Cora, and he was working full time. He wasn't allowed to drive. So he made arrangements with a neighbor to get the kids to school. He took them to the park and volunteered as their baseball coach.
Starting point is 00:34:41 Caleb confided to a friend that he was depressed, but not suicidal. And those are two very different things. You know, I think a lot of people deal with depression. Sometimes depression can lead to, you know, suicidal thoughts. Could. Melissa and Chris eventually found a new home in Mississauga. But Caleb decided he no longer wanted Melissa to have unsupervised access to the kids. And I did think it was a little strange that he voluntarily agreed to that given all the animosity between the two parties now maybe because he was struggling a little bit he thought it would be easier if they took turns watching the kids that would give him some time i mean it makes sense yeah but something in him changed.
Starting point is 00:35:40 And he said, you know what? I don't want her to have unsupervised visits anymore. August 22nd, 2013, was supposed to be there last night alone. That day, Caleb took the kids to their baseball game and then dropped them off with Melissa. Caleb's girlfriend, Curenda, was supposed to stay the night with him, but she was behind on one of her online classes. and didn't trust Caleb's internet, he called her around 11 p.m. She thought he sounded drunk. They argued over the phone about money and the house. Caleb turned off his phone after they ended the conversation. He did this every night because he was a light sleeper. You know who is not
Starting point is 00:36:26 a light sleeper? That would be you. This guy. My oldest was home the other morning and I set the alarm on my iPhone every morning. Yeah. And she comes in, wakes me up and says, dad, this thing's been going off for 10 minutes. And when I woke up, this thing was really loud. Yeah. And it's about a foot from my head. It's the worst, man. And it never woke me up the whole time. Yeah, you're one of those type of sleepers. But I hate that when you hear that alarm going off and off. Or when you set a bunch of alarms, the night before knowing that you attend, you know you're going to sleep past it. Like you want it to wake you up just so you can hit the snooze,
Starting point is 00:37:12 but you're not going to get up, and you know you're not going to get up after the next three go off. Sometimes you just need that process. I don't know. I don't know. I'm like, what? Just get up. You know, it's time to get up, get up. A housekeeper arrived at the Harrisons. On the morning of August 23rd,
Starting point is 00:37:30 she had been working for several hours, when Caleb's co-worker showed up, he was worried because Caleb hadn't come to work. The housekeeper said that she hadn't seen Caleb and she never went into his room to clean because he didn't want her to. The housekeeper and Caleb's coworker entered his room to check on him and found him in bed.
Starting point is 00:37:53 Caleb's coworker touched his neck to check for a pulse and felt that he was cold. And we talk about a lot of discoveries. Yeah. Normally of dead bodies. Imagine being worried about your coworker. You show up at the house, somebody has to check for a pulse. And I think it would be very obvious, very quickly when you feel the person's skin, how cold they are. I would think so. Yeah. Probably something you're not going to forget. One of the paramedics who arrived at the scene was Patrick Moore. who was one of the first responders when Bridget died.
Starting point is 00:38:36 Caleb had been beaten and strangled. His death was immediately ruled a homicide by asphyxiation. This time, a fully trained and certified forensic pathologists performed the autopsy. And I know we've maybe glossed over it a little bit, but I don't think it can be understated this whole thing they had going on at the time in Canada where not every death was looked at by a fully trained and certified forensic pathologists.
Starting point is 00:39:10 I mean, we talked about Bridget's being suspicious. Right. And even that guy hadn't even completed all his classes. That is very true. But I think, you know, when you look at the way that Caleb was found, very easy, right, to rule this homicide, beaten and strangled. no way is this natural and no way is that an accident. The police then called into question Bill and Bridget's deaths. Investigators began surveilling Melissa and Chris.
Starting point is 00:39:44 And neither of those two things surprises me one bit. You know, I wasn't sold on the fact that Bill's situation screamed out natural death. And Bridgett's was, again, at the very least suspicious, if not even more than that. So now that, so when Caleb turns up dead, it's three people in the same family. Yeah. It should be alarming.
Starting point is 00:40:12 It has to be, right, to investigators. And who are you going to look at first? Who would have the biggest motive to want not only Caleb gone, but his parents as well? because all three of them are wrapped up in in the custody situation or have been right at one time or another undercover officers collected chris's used coffee cup from the trash another officer posed as a waste collector and took the couple's trash one of the garbage bags contained men sneakers from Walmart investigators found video footage from august 22nd showing melissa and chris entering walmart
Starting point is 00:40:55 and purchasing sneakers. Additionally, the souls of the sneakers were covered in dog hair. Caleb owned a German shepherd. Latex gloves were also found that had Caleb's DNA on the outside and Chris's on the inside. And finally, Chris's DNA was found under Caleb's fingernails. A lot of evidence right there. It really is. Now, why do you go to Walmart to buy a parachute?
Starting point is 00:41:24 I know that's where you get your. doors normally. But my thought is you're going to Walmart because you're going to buy the cheapest pair of shoes you can find because you know you're going to have to throw them out. Absolutely. Why spend so much money on them if you know they're going to be tossed, right? That's my thinking. And I think that it was theirs as well. I know you buy your shnikes there. It's one of my best brands that I wear is the shnikes. Yeah. Yeah. They look a lot like Nike's, but also like the dididas. What are they?
Starting point is 00:41:58 The dididas? The dididas. But you're right. This is a ton of evidence already. Investigators found correspondence between Melissa and the Harrisons about the custody battle, which provided a motive. After Caleb's death, Melissa got sole custody of the children. She and Chris moved back to Nova Scotia.
Starting point is 00:42:20 In the meantime, investigators continued building their case against Melissa and Chris. according to Dateline, an undercover officer arranged a free trip to get them out of town so authorities could bug their house. Always be wary of the you've won something or a free trip. You know, they used to have those sting operations where they would get all of these people who the police wanted to round up and they would say that they won something. They'd get them to all come down to the same place and then they'd just arrest them. Really? Yeah. heard of that? Because that's why I'm going on this trip. Oh, you got a free trip? Yeah, but I'd have to go to this
Starting point is 00:43:02 location to pick up everything. Well, I'd be, uh, I'd be worried about that. Chris and Melissa were recorded, talking about the deaths and the evidence they might have left behind. I mean, this is not a mountain. This is, uh, the Mount Everest. Yeah. Of evidence, right? It's building up against both of them. For example, Chris said he did grab me by the neck, referring to the DNA under Caleb's fingernails. Melissa responded, even if by chance he did get you on the neck, that would be a minuscule amount. The couple were arrested on January 28, 2014, and charged with first degree murder for the deaths of Bridget and Caleb Harrison. At a press conference, the police said they undertook what they called new avenues of investigation and determined both Caleb and Bridget were asphyxiated.
Starting point is 00:44:04 And we did talk about it, right? When we discussed Bridget's death, the words neck compression. That hardly seemed accidental. Yeah, I got nothing accidental out of that one. After the arrest, Melissa and Chris were put in separate interrogation rooms. Melissa cried during her questioning, Chris remained calm. And after 13 hours, he finally said,
Starting point is 00:44:31 I didn't like Caleb Harrison. According to Toronto Life, he told the detective, I'm telling you right now that Melissa Merritt did not know anything until after it was done. Chris admitted, I killed Bridget Harrison and Caleb Harrison. However, he said he knew nothing about Bill's death. he's attempting to sound like he's coming clean well he's definitely admitting to two murders yeah now he's
Starting point is 00:45:02 saying he doesn't know anything about bill's dad and he's trying to protect her and he is trying to protect her for sure chris confessed that on april 21st 2010 he went to the harrison residence pretending he had a message for the children bridget answered the door and he forced his way inside and attacked her. He said, I hit her a couple of times. I then proceeded to squeeze her neck until she stopped breathing and laid on the floor. He believed killing Bridget would level the playing field between Melissa and Caleb and give her a better chance at getting custody. Came up with that all by himself, did he? Well, according to him. Yeah. He's doing it for Bridget, but Bridget didn't know anything about Chris confessed that on the night of August 22nd, 2013, he entered the house using a key.
Starting point is 00:45:56 He stole from Melissa's oldest son. He entered Caleb's bedroom and hit him in the chest with a bath. Caleb jumped up and Chris threw him into a shelving unit and strangled him. Days after this confession, Chris and Melissa were extradited back to Ontario. They were put into a room together at the airport. They believed they were alone, but the room was bucked. Oh, that's always the best. Yeah, and I don't know why these people think that they're not being recorded, especially when they're at the police station.
Starting point is 00:46:33 That's the one that really gets me. Melissa asked, what did you tell them? Chris said, I'm taking the rap for it to get you a lesser, to give you accessory after the fact. I told them I told you after. Melissa asked why he did it. Chris answered, because I want you to get our children.
Starting point is 00:46:54 On January 30th, 2014, Chris and Melissa were both charged with the murder of Bill Harrison. I mean, things for them just go from bad to worse to terrible. In their rush to leave Mississauga, after Caleb's murder, Melissa and Chris left many of their belongings behind. including their shared computer that contained records of incriminating searches.
Starting point is 00:47:21 Some of the searches were made during the time Melissa was a waiting trial for parental abduction. These searches included, what if a grandparent has legal custody and they die? There was one that was just legal custody and they die. There was one, if a grandparent has custody of the children and they die, which of the the parents gets the kids. Always fascinating what people are searching for on the internet. Yours is probably more fascinating than mine. Mine would be a good read. Let's just put it that way. Is that what you call it now? Yeah, a good read. I do search for some strange things. There's no doubt about it. I've said it before. If you and I didn't do true crime podcasting and somebody just happened to
Starting point is 00:48:15 my search history, they would think I was Dexter or something. It's like, you know, how long does it take to manually strangle someone? Yeah. You know, it's stuff like that. But it's in the context of a story that we're researching. So you're saying they're allegedly. They realize you'd have a true crime addiction and a porn addiction at the same time. Allegedly.
Starting point is 00:48:41 Every so often, they search for news about Bill and Bridgett. One of them used the computer to Google how to tell if your phone is tapped. Someone had also searched how long it takes someone to die from being choked. Okay, that's like a search that I might do. Because as we found out, right, it's not like the movies. It takes quite a while and a good deal of pressure to manually strangle someone. Two minutes and 36 seconds. On average?
Starting point is 00:49:15 Yeah. In the movies, it's like five seconds, right? And somebody's dead, but that's not real life. Because Chris and Melissa shared the computer, the searches couldn't be attributed to one person. The police attempted to match the searches with activity in each person's email. And in doing so, made unauthorized searches and seizures of evidence. A judge sided with the defense and had the computer evidence thrown out before trial. And that always stinks, right?
Starting point is 00:49:47 When you have solid evidence that you would love to present to the jury. Sure, yeah. But because of a misstep or something done incorrectly, it has to be thrown out. And you're like, oh, it was so good. This could have really helped the case. Chris attempted to plead guilty to manslaughter for the death of Caleb Harrison, but was rejected by the prosecution. That doesn't surprise me at all.
Starting point is 00:50:16 I mean, they had quite a bit of evidence. So why would they, you know, agree to... Lesser? Allow him to take a lesser plea. The prosecution argued that Harrison family deaths were the result of the lengthy custody battle. Chris and Melissa grew increasingly frustrated with the involvement of Caleb's parents in their children's lives. The prosecution quoted one of... one of Melissa's 2008 letters, she wrote, per the Toronto son. If Caleb is not caring for the children,
Starting point is 00:50:51 no one other than myself should be. Bill and Bridget are not the children's parents. The Crown told the jury a neighbor would testify that Melissa was unhappy with the court's 2009 decision to grant Bill and Bridget shared custody. She packed up boxes that could be seen inside her home. The neighbor happened to be a colleague of Bill Harrison and warned him. The prosecution theorized that Bill was killed after confronting Chris about taking the kids away. And that answers, I think, one of the questions that many people might have, right? Why kill Bill and not bridge it at the same time? Because you're really not solving the problem you think you have. You still have one grandparent who is a lot. But it makes much more sense if Bill is warned that, hey, they're about ready to skip town with the kids.
Starting point is 00:51:50 He confronts Chris about it and Chris kills him. The crown also noted that Bridget died the day before. Melissa was going to plead guilty to parental kidnapping. Her cause of death was neck injuries. And both of those things jumped out at me right away. The timing of her death. and then also, you know, the phrase neck compression. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:52:17 I mean, I don't think you need to be a trained forensic pathologist to understand that, hey, this needs to be looked at a little bit more. Yeah, pretty severe here. Let's dive into this. By August 2013, Melissa and Caleb were fighting over the kids again. According to the prosecution in the middle of the night, Chris Fetor entered Caleb's house using a stolen key, he went to Caleb's bedroom and hit him in the chest. Chris was described as a large, powerful man who could deliver, you know, a very serious blow.
Starting point is 00:52:53 Caleb woke up and the two men got into a struggle. But Caleb was drunk and much smaller than Chris. Chris threw Caleb into the shelves beside his bed. Caleb pleaded for his life and offered the attacker money. Chris said nothing and strangled King. Caleb to death. And we mentioned it, right? Investigators had Chris's DNA under Caleb's nails and Caleb's DNA on a pair of gloves in the garbage. The court also heard about the Walmart sneakers found in the garbage outside Chris and Melissa's home. The dog hair on the soles of the
Starting point is 00:53:29 shoes was linked to Caleb's German Shepherd. And you said it earlier, Gives, but it really is a lot of evidence. And let's not forget, Chris is admitted to the murders. Right. At least when it comes to Caleb and Bridget, Chris's defense argued that Bill died of a sudden cardiac event and Bridget died from a fall down the stairs. They acknowledged that Chris killed Caleb, but said it was an accident. And I don't know how they could not acknowledge given the evidence specifically related to Caleb's murder. Yeah, it only makes sense. Melissa's defense argued that she should be acquitted because there's no evidence she knew
Starting point is 00:54:17 about the deaths before they happened. The prosecution played a video of Chris confessing to two murders in court. The jury also listened to the recording of Chris and Melissa at the airport, where he said he was taking the rap for her. Might be a little damning. Oh, I think so. To a jury. Let's also not forget the shopping for the shoes.
Starting point is 00:54:43 Now, could that have been Chris saying, hey, let's go get some shoes at Walmart? Or is that the two of them together getting shoes because they know they're later going to have to throw them away? They're probably going to have crime scene evidence on them. I think it's the latter. Chris got on the stand and testified that he falsely confessed out of concern for his family. He believed he was making a deal.
Starting point is 00:55:09 So Melissa would be with the children. He denied killing Bill or Bridget and insisted he killed Caleb accidentally. He went to the house because he wanted to rough him up so they would have a few extra days with the kids. In her closing address, Chris's defense attorney said he was taking a dive to protect the woman he loved. He only confessed to the murders due to 15 hours of interrogation by a psychologically manipulative investigative. So what does she mean by that, Gibbs? He was taking a dive to protect the woman he loved. That he didn't really do it, but he said that he did it to protect her? I think so. I mean, I think that's the seed at the very least as she's trying to plant. Deliberation started on January
Starting point is 00:56:01 10th, 2018, and the jury reached a verdict on January 13th. Chris Vitor was found guilty of first-degree murder for the deaths of Bridget Harrison and Caleb Harrison, but he was acquitted of the murder of Bill Harrison. A pathologist reviewed Bill's autopsy notes and found that Bill had bruising on his chest and neck and concluded Bill was assaulted before he died. However, Bill was creamed. He was creaming. made it. And the jury didn't think there was enough evidence for a conviction. And I can understand that. First of all, you have somebody who said, hey, doesn't look like any foul play here. You know, that was the initial ruling. There's no body that they can go back and and look at. No, since it was cremated.
Starting point is 00:56:53 And you don't have Chris admitting to the murder. No. As you do with Bridget and Caleb. Melissa Merritt was found guilty of first-degree murder for the death of Caleb Harrison, but jurors declared a hung jury on whether she killed Bridget. By the time of trial, Melissa was not charged with Bill's death. Melissa and Chris received life sentences with no chance of parole for 25 years. And then prosecutors announced their intention to retry her for the murder of Bridget Harrison. In 2020, it was reported. that Chris was looking for a romantic partner from prison.
Starting point is 00:57:35 He had a profile on Canadian Inmates Connect, a pen pal website. He described himself as a big teddy bear who was fun and caring. He wrote that he was looking for someone who shared his interest. He said, They say opposites attract, but in my experience, they don't last.
Starting point is 00:57:56 I'm not looking for anyone controlling. I've been there, done that, threw away the t-shirt. I just wasn't happy with his cellmate, huh? He was too controlling. Yeah. I'm a big teddy bear who's fun and caring. And that's why I got a life sentence with no possibility of parole for 25 years.
Starting point is 00:58:16 Yeah. But if you're okay with that, we can start something up. That's right. The Toronto son reported that Melissa had married a fellow inmate in prison. So I guess they both decided, hey, we got to move on. Find some love. On January 5th, 2003,
Starting point is 00:58:34 Melissa Merritt was granted a retrial. A three-judge panel ruled the trial judge, made errors when giving directions to the jury that could have swayed the decision towards Melissa's conviction for Caleb's murder.
Starting point is 00:58:49 Chris's appeal was dismissed. The judge has found compelling evidence, linking him to Caleb's death. And that makes sense, right? There was a ton of evidence against Chris. Not quite as much against Melissa. In Melissa's case,
Starting point is 00:59:07 the court found that the judge made two critical errors when instructing the jury how they should handle an unintelligible statement from a recording and an omission. Melissa made during her first interview about the Walmart shoes. In her first interview after Caleb's death, Melissa said she and Chris spent the night
Starting point is 00:59:29 at a softball game and went to the mall to get dinner, she didn't mention that they stopped at Walmart to buy shoes. The Crown argued that she deliberately omitted this detail to hide the fact that she knew what Chris was buying the shoes for. There were inconsistencies in Chris's statements about when exactly, he told Melissa about the murders. The judge essentially told the jury that if they rejected Chris's inconsistent evidence, they should also reject Melissa's, without explaining the possibility that she had other evidence of her innocence,
Starting point is 01:00:08 not tied to Chris's testimony. Interesting. Yeah. I mean, it is interesting how judges make rulings. They also make mistakes, right? They're human. Sure, yeah. And we mentioned it earlier.
Starting point is 01:00:23 The police planted recording device. and Chris and Melissa's home while they were under investigation. At one point, detectives posed as a victim liaison officer and insurance investigator and told a couple that the police had linked Chris to Bridget's death. Through DNA evidence, the police's statements were not always factual. But at least here, they can do that.
Starting point is 01:00:51 Yes, I don't know what it's like in Canada. but here in the United States, police don't have to tell the truth. Afterwards, Chris was recorded talking to Melissa and saying the DNA evidence must have been from his hair because Bridget never touched him. When speaking about Caleb's murder, Chris was recorded saying, I killed him fucking perfect. Or I killed him, then fucking prove it. Melissa responded, I know, but. during their conversation in the bugged room at the airport. After Chris told her he took the rap for her, Melissa said,
Starting point is 01:01:29 You shouldn't have said anything. Chris responded in a whisper. I was thinking about, and then the unintelligible part, and the children. Melissa whispered back. There's an unintelligible part. The audio tapes would have fucked us anyways. The prosecution argued that this was her admission of involvement. But her lawyers argued that the unintelligible portion of the transcript was her saying,
Starting point is 01:01:58 they think the audio tapes would have fucked us anyways. And those, you know, that is something very, very different. Very different. The trial judge failed to give the jury proper direction about how to handle the recording. Melissa's retrial started on February 6, 2024. The prosecution argued, Melissa was a willing of. accomplice and not just an accessory after the fact. She helped and even encouraged Chris to commit the murders of Bridget and Caleb Harrison.
Starting point is 01:02:32 The motive was the custody battle. The jury viewed nine letters written by Melissa to the Harrison family in 2008. In a letter from October of that year, she wrote, I will be keeping the children with me today. There's something wrong here. No child should behave that way before seeing the child. their father. In a November letter, she wrote, I have a responsibility as a mother to protect my children and after the episode that occurred on Friday night in my driveway in front of me, it's hard not to
Starting point is 01:03:07 believe. Nothing happens to my children behind the closed doors of your home. On March 18th, 2004, Melissa Merritt was acquitted of the murder of Bridget Harrison and a mistrial was declared for the death of Caleb Harrison. So things have really turned around for her in a big way. On March 3rd, 2025, Melissa pleaded guilty to manslaughter, weeks before the start of her third trial. In the statement of facts read by the judge, Melissa admitted she knew Chris and intended to confront Caleb about the ongoing custody battle and to threaten him if he didn't grant her more access to the children she was aware it could get violent she admitted that she encouraged Chris to confront Caleb but she didn't know Chris would kill him they didn't discuss
Starting point is 01:04:04 specifically what Chris might say or do or that Chris planned to kill Caleb Melissa only learned about it after it happened. On March 17th, 2025, Melissa was sentenced to 15 years plus one day. At one day, we really get you. We'll get you for one more day. But again, what a turnaround, right? Oh. Life with the chance of parole at 25 years down to 15 years in a day. And she'd already spent over a decade in jail. Yeah. So with enhanced. credit for time served in pretrial custody, the judge agreed with a joint submission by the crown and the defense that she should be released. Melissa only spent one extra day in jail. The ruling came after victim impact statements were read. One of those was from Anna Blackwell,
Starting point is 01:05:04 Caleb's cousin, whom he appointed a guardian of the kids. She told the court she feared for her life and said, if Melissa decides it's in her best interest, I have no doubt. She will orchestrate more harm and more violence. The judge told the family and friends that she knew the sentence was not what they hoped for, but a third trial may have resulted in an acquittal. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, I mean, there are a lot of questions that still remain in this case. but after 16 years, the case of the Harrison family desk is now closed. I think Chris's case is pretty bottled up.
Starting point is 01:05:49 I think what's really up for debate is what Melissa's role was, what Melissa knew. And to me, it went down most likely one of two ways. either she did know that Chris was going there, but only found out after the fact that he killed Caleb, or she was the driving force behind all of it. And I mean all of it, specifically both Bridget and Caleb's deaths. Now, she might not have been the one to actually kill them.
Starting point is 01:06:33 Yeah. But it was her directing what happened. Controlling the situation. And getting Chris to do what she wanted him to do. And again, when he said, I took the rap for you. What does that mean? It kind of makes it seem like she knew a lot more than just, oh, after the fact, I found out that he killed Caleb.
Starting point is 01:07:03 because otherwise there's no reason to really say that. The only reason you're saying, I took the rap for you, is because she had to be involved at some level. Yeah, because I think he also said, I'm making sure you only get an accessory after the fact. Yeah. And if she truly did learn about Caleb's murder afterwards, then she would be, right?
Starting point is 01:07:26 An accessory after the fact. I don't know. There's just a lot pointing to the idea that she may have had, quite a bit more knowledge up front. But I think sometimes that's, that's hard to prove. The recordings and things like that make it seem that way. That's true. But I also get, you know, going with the, the plea deal, right? You take a chance on the third trial. And if it's an acquittal, then you've really lost. Now, she's a chance. You know, spent 10 years of her life in prison, but at least this way you get a conviction.
Starting point is 01:08:10 That's true. You don't get more time, but you get a conviction. So I don't know. As a family and as the prosecutors, it would be a tough decision. It would be. But for the prosecutor, a win is a win? Is it? Because to me, the win was life with parole possibility after 25 years.
Starting point is 01:08:33 right that got thrown out so that had to feel like a defeat i would think maybe yeah but for the record yeah it's still conviction yeah if it's a if you're looking at it that way yeah trying to get reelected but i think if you're a prosecutor and you truly believe the evidence is there and that it proves that it was more her directing and should be first degree murder than i think you're looking at it as a loss yeah even though true you got a conviction but that's it for our episode on Melissa Merritt. We got a voicemail. You want to check that out?
Starting point is 01:09:08 Let's hear it. Hey, good evening. Mike and Gibby. This is Kingman and Grove River, Oregon. I was just listening to your episode about Carnell Fledge and Catherine Brown. I remember this case. I've heard it done a few times. You guys did an excellent job on it.
Starting point is 01:09:24 As far as silencer, suppressors, they've been in the news a lot lately. Something I know a little bit about, not a lot, not an expert, but I do own a couple of suppressors. A 22 caliber suppressed in a pistol would be very, very quiet, but not so quiet that you wouldn't hear it if you were in the same room, depending on the ammunition used. There's all kinds of setups you can run it wet, where you put some kind of liquid. You can use water. There's ceramic liquids. There's all kinds of stuff that people like to put inside of them. If you run a suppressor wet, it's very, very quiet because all the gases get trapped by that liquid inside of the baffles. Good news is they just came off the NFA as far as tax
Starting point is 01:10:07 stance are required. So you'll still have to actually register them with the federal government, but you won't have to pay 200 bucks to purchase the suppressor. But long story short, they're not that quiet. They're not that evil. If somebody used to 22 with a wet silencer, that's probably why nobody heard it, especially if they were really, really sneaky. Anyway, going on for a long time. Hey, guys, love your podcast. Keep your own time. I'm taking and I don't know if this will pick up but I'm going to shoot a 22 suppressed right now. Yeah, pretty quiet. All right.
Starting point is 01:10:39 See you later. So I had to play that because nobody's ever actually fired around during a voicemail. Right. But, you know, and he did talk about ammo and that's a good thing and something we probably didn't talk about because there's subsonic ammo that's going to be even more quiet. Yeah. But again, when you when you. when you heard that, and I know it's through the phone, what I really heard is is more of the action. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:11:07 And that's, that's kind of what I've heard at the range when, when some guys next to me were shooting a suppressed 22. Now, a larger caliber is going to make more noise even suppressed. But a 22 with subsonic animo can be very quiet. I mean, I think the key is. And I've always said this, right? You got to keep it wet. Yeah. You've been a big proponent.
Starting point is 01:11:30 of that. That's the key. Keep it wet. You know, it goes with a lot of things. It's just, it's a good voicemail when somebody talks about it and then actually demonstrates it. You actually got a little excited. By firing off a few rounds. All right, buddy, that is it
Starting point is 01:11:46 for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike, and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

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