True Crime All The Time - Melvin Ignatow

Episode Date: July 16, 2018

Mel Ignatow murdered his fiancee Brenda Schaefer in Louisville, KY in September 1988. He enlisted the help a former girlfriend who ultimately turned on him. But a jury acquitted Ignatow of the murder of Brenda Schaefer. Six months after the trial, incriminating evidence was found in his house leaving no doubt that he murdered Brenda. Double jeopardy barred the state from going after Ignatow for the murder. Authorities would have to find another avenue to prosecute Ignatow.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss "the most hated man in Louisville" Mel Ignatow. Did the juror get it wrong in his trial or did the prosecution not have enough evidence to prove he committed the murder? You be the judge.You can help support the show by going to patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact and merchandise information. You'll also find links for both patreon and paypal if you want to help support the show.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

and welcome to episode 87 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike, Tanya Dancer Gibson, Gibby, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. Tanya Dancer. We got a lot of mileage out of the Tanya dancer. Well, you know, that cracked a lot of people up. It is what it is. That you actually thought it was Tanya dancer. Now I know. But at the same time, We've got a lot of people talking about the songs that they thought were X, but turned out, you know, the real lyric was why. And I, that happens to me all the time. There's a lot, yeah, there are a lot of songs like that, especially when I was younger. Yeah.

I mean, still, probably my biggest one was always been Dream Weaver where I thought it was Jane Weaver. Did you know someone named Jane Weaver? No, I just thought, man, somebody really likes his Jane Weaver. Somebody is writing this song for his love, Jane Weaver. love Jane Weaver. That's right. But it was funny. Yeah, it was good.

Now, you had a good birthday. I did have a good birthday. I'm still alive, man. Still kicking. So that's always good. Yeah. I think every morning I wake up and I actually see light, it's good. That is good.

So turning 30, though, is probably a big deal for you. Yeah, because I've been turned it now for many years. You've been 29 for like 10 years and you finally flipped it to 30. Yeah. And you're feeling better. We have a lot of people writing in. Obviously, a lot of people wishing you a happy birthday like they did for, you know, me a couple weeks ago.

Yeah. But a lot of people writing in saying, hey, Gibby, hope you're doing well. I hope you're feeling better. I mean, I still. I think because you've been milking it for so long. Yeah, I do. People are really concerned. I do.

I really, you know, try to play it to my benefit a lot, you know, like, I'm really sore. You know, somebody baby me, please. Or I'm a really tough guy and I just tough it out. I don't know. Let them decide. That's what you normally go with, but it hasn't worked out as much as you talk a big game, but I don't know. Yeah, you know. We'll see.

Gibbs, we've got a lot of new Patreon support. Oh, good. We had Joan Lawson. Hey, Joan. Kirsten Wilkie. Thank you. Barry McLaughlin. McLaughin.

Renee Jennings. Hey, Renee. Nicole Rooney. Thank you. Melissa. Just Melissa. Just Melissa. And that is enough.

That's it right there. Georgina Drinkwater. The drink water. I'm loving that name. Yeah. James Lovecraft. Hey, Lovecraft. Caroline Spellman.

Like Chris Bellman. That's Spielman. I'm talking about the guy that used to play for the Buckeyes and then played in the NBA, or NBA, the NFL. Yeah. Yeah, that's Chris Spellman. Yeah, I'm off a little bit. But close enough. Yeah.

For you, it's actually very close. That's true. I should get credit. Right there. You do. Yeah. If not partial credit, full credit. Yeah.

Kelsey Christensen jumped out to our highest level. Thank you, Kelsey. Mark Englehard. Hey, Mark. Zoe Coontz. I like that, Zoe. Zoe's a cool name. Yeah.

Crystal Lustel Connery. Rustle Connery. There's, okay. You just did somehow two different accents in the same last name. Yeah. The same hyphenated last name. Lustle, you know? And you got.

Connery, like Sean Connery, you know. She jumped out at our highest level, too. French, Scottish. Yeah, that in no way sounded like either one. Okay. I know what you were going. I'm working on it. Tracy Bailey.

Hey, Tracy. And then Molly Gibson. Hey, Molly. How you doing? You can never have too many Gibson's. Yeah. Got a lot of second cousins. That's what I always say.

Yeah. And you just said to your second cousin, how are you doing? I did. How's my second cousins doing? How many second cousins? Do you have? Several. And my initials are M.G.

Her initials are M.G. So we have that. So you got that in common. Now, if we go back into the Vault Gibbs, this week we selected Gina Oibonko. Oibonko. Is that what I said? Sound like it, no. No.

I missed that. Yeah. Well, I'm not sure I'm right either. Yeah. But I can almost guarantee you that you are not. Let me hear it one more time. oi bunco. Oy bunco is what I'm going with.

Yeah. But, you know, Gina's been a long time Patreon supporter. So we really appreciate that. We appreciate all the new support we get, as well as the people that continue to support month after month. Every one of them. And that goes for PayPal too.

Our PayPal support, you know, was really started to ramp up. Oh, good. We had Joan Lawson. Hey, Joan. Who in the same week did Patreon. and PayPal.

Doubled up. Caleb. Caleb. Connie Van Onselder. On Vonsetor. That's not what I said at all. Oh, hey Connie. And Gunn Christensen.

Really? Yep. That's like an action figure name. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. That's hero type stuff right there. I'm picturing, you know, like really fit person. Yeah, but PayPal is great too because, you know, some people do a one time.

Some people do a monthly. Yeah. So it's great. Appreciate all that. So we, we appreciate the new support, the continued support on PayPal as well. All right, Gibbs. At the time that this episode is out, we've got true crime all the time unsolved. We do. We are doing the second and last part of the Elizabeth Short murder, the Black Dahlia. Yes. And, you know, at the end of part one, we had just kind of gotten into why she was called the Black Dahlia by the media. Yeah, we didn't even touch her counterpart, the white daffodil.

Yeah, it's very little known. Yeah. Because you just made it up. No. But we're going to get into the investigation and the suspects and all that. I think it would be really a lot of information for sure. But next week, there won't be an episode of true crime all the time unsolved. We are putting out our very first Patreon-only episode.

Yes. The first of what we believe to be, Minutes. that we're hoping, but we get a lot of interest in people wanting to, you know, hear a case that we do for Patreon only. So, yeah, I mean, for being a Patreon member next week. If you are a member, if you're not, join up, you know. And next week, you'll get a T-Cat surprise. Yeah, it's a good time to join up. Yeah.

For sure. All right, Gibbs, let's get into this episode of True Crime All Time. Okay. We are talking about Melvin Ignato. Mr. Robato. Yep. And this was actually a suggestion by a listener. We get a lot of those.

We do. We get a whole lot. We do. We get a whole lot. We put them on our list. There was something different about them because I usually do like a little bit of research when I get the suggestion. This is one where when I got into it, I couldn't stop. And I just knew we had to do this episode.

You were pretty excited about it. I was. As I started researching it, I remembered hearing about it. it. And I don't know if it was an old date line, 48 hours, something. But I remembered the story. But it, it had been a while since I had heard about it because Mel Ignato murdered his girlfriend, Brenda Schaefer, but he got away with it. And this is, you know, really what drew me so much to this case. I mean, Ignato has been called the most hated man in Kentucky. And that's saying something. That's saying, because there's some basketball coaches that people don't like it.

Exactly. Now, we're in the Louisville area. Louisville. So I'm going to go ahead and say it correctly. Okay. And, you know, you can jump in as you just did anytime you want with your version. Louisville. Right.

And I'll say Louisville. But I want to start this story off talking about the victim in this case. Brenda Sue Schaefer was born on April 15, 1952 in Louisville, Kentucky to John and S.E. Sheifer. She was raised Catholic, the youngest of six kids. And she was an average student in school growing up, described by classmates as friendly, well-liked, but she was introverted. At the age of 16, Brenda met a 19-year-old named Charles Van Pelt. The two hit it off. They dated and they planned to get married in the summer of 1971 just after Brenda graduated. But tragedy struck the Schaefer family when Brenda's 28-year-old brother Jack was killed.

Jack was a police officer. And on June 3rd of 71, he was investigating a burglary when both he and his partner were shot and killed by two brothers. These brothers were named Tensley. The Tensley brothers had just been recently paroled when they killed the two police officers. Brenda and Charles did finally get married. They stayed in this marriage for about four years. During that time, she attended modeling school. She worked as a nurse's aide in a Kentucky hospital.

And Charles Van Pelt would later talk about his ex-wife, Brenda. And specifically, how stunning she was. And he wasn't the only one. There were a lot of people after the fact that would come out and talk about, about, you know, not only what a great person, Brenda was, but how incredibly beautiful she was. You know, she was 5'4, 110 pounds, dark hair, green eyes, and men found her extremely attractive. A lot of people said Gibbs that she resembled the beautiful actress Marlowe Thomas. Really?

From back in the day. Yeah. And she was. Marlowe Thomas was very attractive. Yeah. And so was Brenda. I mean, you can see that in the pictures, and we'll post those on our Facebook site. But at the same time, her ex-husband Charles would come out and say that, you know, Brenda had low self-esteem and she was especially self-conscious about her looks. Yeah, that's, that happens to a lot of people. It does. I mean, they, uh, either because

they were some type of negative influence in their life or somebody in their life put so much emphasis. on looks with them that they just felt that they would never, you know, achieve what that person in their life wanted. And it happens to extremely attractive people. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. People that you would think everybody else around them sees them as handsome or beautiful. Yeah. But that person inside doesn't feel that way. No. And they can even hear you say it. And they still just, they don't believe it. They don't believe it. No. And I, and I think this. Brenda had a little bit of this. I don't know how much, but it was talked about.

Now, after her four-year marriage to Van Pelt was over, Brenda dated several men. Most of the men that she dated were older than her. She tended to gravitate towards older men. Yeah, not a problem. Well, it's not a problem for me. Depend on how older is, I guess. It's not a problem for me or anyone as far as I know.

No. They're all of legal aid. So is there a non-legal age? Yes, there is. There is a non-legal age. No, no, I met. You know, if she's a legal age, there's, you know, and they're older than her that we know, you know, it's like she can't date somebody 70. There's no reverse.

I don't know where I'm going. Where are you in like a Benjamin Button situation here? Yeah. That's good. You said, is there a non-level age? And I said, yes, there is. Benjamin Button. I like that.

Take me to dinner, baby. You can change my diaper. Well, that could happen at 80 or. I was going to say, that can happen at a lot of different ages. She had a long-term relationship with a dentist. And this guy really wanted to marry her. But it never happened. But she had good teeth, though.

Well, speaking to that, she actually did have pretty good teeth. But going back to what Brenda thought about herself, not seeing herself as others did. She went through a number of cosmetic surgery procedures. She had a nose job. She had her breasts augmented. And she had her teeth straightened, whitened. So she went through a number of procedures.

Yeah. Yeah, she did. But I think Gibbs, it all went back to, you know, some low self-esteem on her part and just not seeing herself as others did. In 1978, she started working for a doctor by the name of William Spalding. Really? That's... Really?

Why, you're, like, shocked by that? That's, that's, his competitor was Dr. Wilson. Wilson. Spalding, Wilson. Yeah. It was a little, you know... I got it. Tom.

I think people will get it. Tom Hanks reference. What's that movie? Yeah, what's that movie called? The island movie. you know, cast away. Where he's cast it away. What's that movie called?

Yeah. I was going to give you a hint, but you got it. Yeah. It came through. And everybody liked Brenda, you know, at this doctor's office where she worked. You know, people came out. They described her as personable, hardworking. She rarely took time off.

They really loved her there, including Dr. Spalding. But it's in 1986 that. that Brenda is set up on a blind date with a 48-year-old man named Mel Ignato. And it was a double date set up by Brenda's best friend at the time who also worked at the doctor's office with her. And the date took place on Ignato's 32-foot boat. Not a bad-sized boat. No.

It's a very nice boat. Yeah. Most people don't have a boat that big. But maybe he was, you know, needed to have a boat. a bigger boat to supplement for something. You always think if you have a nice car, if you have a big house, you're always talking about that. Yeah, I got one of those blow-up rafts. That's, if you want to go a ding. And you have a ding. Oh, man. That's what you have. Did I walk into that? You did. You walked right into that. Yeah. Okay. But you always think people are compensating

for something. You know, that's why you got that big old truck out there. I do. I like a big truck. And that big Harley. And a big Harley. Yeah. But Brent, And Mel were very different. We've talked about it. Brenda was very attractive. Mel was much older than she was. I mean, he was probably at this point 14 years older than she was. Yeah, but we talked, it was last week, you know, or the week before.

I think it was last week we talked about age differences. Yeah, 10, 12, 14. It's not the age here. No. It's when you see the picture of them. side by side. Night and day? It's night and day. You know, Mel was not a looker by any stretch of the imagination. And Brenda would even later say to her friends that she was not physically attracted to him. But Mel Ignato was successful. He had this nice big boat. Like we just talked about.

That we just talked about. He drove a Corvette. Oh, huh. Okay. He had a nice big home. in an affluent part of Louisville. Of course he did. Now, is he compensating for something Gibbs or is he just showing off his wealth? There is a difference. Is there? Maybe he just liked nice things. Maybe he's a collector.

Maybe he is. Yeah. But even though she wasn't physically attracted to him, she was attracted to him in some way. And, you know, one of the things that she would tell her friends was that he had a way. of, you know, providing her with the type of attention that she needed. Because she had had a series of failed romances after her divorce. And we're going to talk about it a little bit. Mel was a salesman and a very good salesman.

And I think he had a way of, you know, he was a smooth talker. Yes. So we'll talk about Mel a little bit. But I'm not going to spend a whole lot of time on him. I wanted to focus on Brenda and her background. We do tend to cover killers background in depth. There's not really a ton out there about Melignato. I don't know how many times he was dropped on his head.

I don't know any of that. What I do know is that he was born on March 26, 1938. So again, he was about 14, 15 years older than Brenda. Right. He graduated from high school in 1955. went on to attend the University of Louisville but dropped out. He never graduated, but he did make something of himself. He became a pretty successful salesman.

I would think so. Nice house. Sports car, big boat. Big boat. Yeah. So after that first date, Brenda and Mel began a relationship, and he proposed to her on Valentine's Day, 1987 with a 2.3-carat diamond ring. Compensation. Sizable. You're saying he's compensating

with the ring as well. Yes. You've pegged this guy. 2.3 carrot, come on. That's a big ring. That's like Bugs Bunny size. That's Michael Scott of Dunder Mifflin's three-year salary rule. Yes. But this relationship between Brenda and Mel was rocky. You know, first of all, they didn't see each other very much. Mostly on weekends, they both had very busy schedules. They talked on the phone almost every day. But Ignato was very controlling of Brenda. It was noted later by folks at the doctor's office that he would call Brenda multiple times a day while she was at work. And when he traveled for business, he would actually schedule calls with her in advance. And if for some reason she failed to answer or she was late getting to the phone, he would blow up at her.

Well, he was very organized clearly in his professional sales position. And he'd probably like, hey, am I a day runner? It says, I'm supposed to call you. You should be there when I call you. Because it's not like they had smartphones back then. So he's probably pulling over some pay phone, dialing up, you know. I get that. think it goes a little further than that. I think the guy was extremely controlling. Yeah, a little creepy

controlling shirt, for sure, yeah. Over the top. I mean, I get being organized and I get, you know, wanting to make the best use of your time possible. I mean, he should have been like, he called, she couldn't answer, been like, oh, I'm sorry, I missed her call, you know. I mean, maybe I'll catch her on the next one. No, yeah, but he wasn't. He would, he would literally blow up at her. It was her fault. She was no good, that type of thing. Yeah, yeah. Today's tech. He would hate it because it's so tricky, man. You just don't know what you're looking at, you know, with all the different apps and social media. So he would probably think, look, she's online, message her.

She's green. She's green. Yeah, that's the color in it. She's green. Why isn't she messaging me back? And he would drive him insane. Yeah, much easier to kind of keep track of people these days. Yeah, it kind of is, you know.

But it also depends on how you handle your phone. You could be on that one app green. You could be asleep, man, you know? But it looks like you're green. I've had people say, you were up late. I'm like, I was. They're like, well, you were green or whatever. I'm like, I guess I left my app open.

That's true. You know? So you never know. The other thing that Brenda would say about Mel was that, you know, he had a voracious sex drive. Veracious. Veracious. That's the word of the episode.

Is that the word of the episode? How many times can give you say voracious? Probably not many. It doesn't come up a lot. No, not really. But his sexual desires were not what most people would term conventional. And Brenda shared with some of her friends that she was not comfortable with a lot of the things that he wanted her to do sexually. So again, big sex drive.

he's into, I don't know what type of kinky things he was into, but she, whatever they were, she didn't share that same interest. She's like, well, hold on there now, buddy. Yeah. I don't think I'm good with that. And on top of that, she confided in friends that he was both verbally and physically abusive to her. So painting a picture of Mel Ignato here, it's not good. No. I mean, and both terrible, right? I mean, I think it's absolutely terrible if you're physically abusive to anybody, no matter what side of the fence you're on. You know, there's no reason to ever be physical. But the emotional is just as bad, man. You can really tear somebody down emotionally. Yeah, I think people sometimes forget about the verbal and the emotional side of abuse because, you know, like you said, it can be.

devastating. I mean, you can say things and once you say it can't be taken back. You know, you said it. And people are going to remember that. And how do you do that to a loved one? I don't know. It took a while, but Brenda finally came to the realization that she had to get out of this relationship. And she began telling her friends that she was going to end things with Mel. Yeah, step one. What's step one? Tell people. Tell people that you're going to end it. Yep. accountability. How many steps are there in this plan that you have? Three steps. Three steps. Okay. It's a three-step process. Three-step process. We'll get to the other steps later. Yes. But it wasn't just her friends that

knew this. Mel Ignato knew this as well. You know, he had gotten when that she was going to end it with him. And the night of September 24th, 1988, this was going to be their final date. Brenda had told her friends that she planned to meet with Mel, she was going to give him back jewelry that he had given her over the years. You know, for her Gibbs, this was going to be the end of the relationship. Yeah. That's her, uh, which I'm assuming in your step two. Oh, this is only step two? Step two.

Okay. But for Mel Ignato, this is not something that he could let happen. You know, in his makeup, whatever that was, he wasn't going to stand for this. No, he's always used to always be closing, ABC. And getting what he wanted. Yeah. I think that had a lot to do with his personality. Yeah, you're a top salesperson.

You know, you always think that you can save the deal. To him, and this is a deal. He's going to try to save it. Now, into the picture comes a woman by the name of Marianne Shore. And this is a woman that Mel had dated years earlier before meeting Brenda, and she was still desperately in love with Mel Ignato. And she would have done anything for him. So I mentioned it.

Mel's aware of Brenda's plan to break up with him. He reaches out to this Marianne Shore. They start planning weeks ahead of time of what is scheduled to be this final meeting between Brenda and Mel. How to get rid of Brenda Shafee. And the details of the plan and what's going to happen is going to shock everyone. So in the early morning hours of September 25th, 1988, police officer is driving along Interstate 64, when he noticed a white two-door 1984 Buick Regal on the side of the road. So he pulls over to investigate this car.

he notices that the right rear tire is flat. The rear window is busted out. There's papers strewn about all through the car into the grass. The radio's missing. And it looks like somebody tried to remove the speakers. The trunk showed signs that it had been pried open. And the amount of dew on the car showed that it had probably been sitting there for at least a few hours. right, for a certain amount of due to collect on that car.

It didn't take long for police to determine that the car belonged to 36-year-old Brenda Schaefer. And they also figured out that Brenda's older brother, Tom, had reported her missing a few hours before the car was found. So I think that the car was found pretty early, 6 a.m. time frame. Her brother had reported her missing sometime around 4 a.m. because she had not returned home the night before after this date that she was going on with her fiance, Melignato. So by the time this car was found, you know, Gibbs, her family was already extremely worried about

her. And you know your family, right? You know what type of person your daughter is or your son is. Is she the type that is going to be home? every night or is he or she the type of person that might stay over to friend's house and forget to call or whatever they knew brenda they knew something was wrong right she would have called yeah it's not her normal process yeah it wasn't in her nature to make them worry like that because at the time of her disappearance brenda was living with her parents in order to take care of her mother who

whose health was failing. But Brenda had her own condo. So, I mean, this was a choice that she made to be a good daughter, to stay with her parents, take care of them.

She didn't have to do that. No, but we know she's that type of person. And I think it, it goes to show what a loving, caring person Brenda Schaefer was. Police went to the Schaefer house

to inform them that they had found her car. And they also entered, interviewed Mel Ignato. Because you know, Gibbs, he's immediately going to be a prime suspect. Right. He was the last known person to see Brenda. And in his initial interview with police, Mel told them that Brenda had picked him up around three o'clock the day before.

And he explained that his Corvette had a bad tire as the reason why Brenda picked him up instead of him picking Brenda. Right. But there are some reports that have him driving his Corvette the very next morning. So a little sketchy. But he said they drove around quite a bit that day. They did some shopping. They went a number of places.

And then Brenda dropped him off around 11.30 p.m. He also said that later after that, he went to a skyline chili restaurant. Okay. And that's a place that you and I know very well. Skyline, baby. That came out of Cincinnati, has kind of spread from there. Five way. Is that what you get, the five way?

Five way with beans. Oh, I go three-way. Yeah, I know you're a three-ware. I don't like beans. I don't like beans. You've always been a three-way. I'm not a big bean person. Yeah.

But I do like Skyline a lot. But I think police thought from the beginning, from this very first interview that Mel had something to do with Brenda's disappearance. Some of the police reports talk about how, you know, they just didn't feel like he was being completely honest. But at the same time, he wasn't giving them anything. Now, eventually, you know, this story is going to hit the media. And when it does, when some of the facts start to come out that Mel was the last person

to see Brenda, there's a lot of people in Louisville. and even around the state of Kentucky that thought he was involved as well. In January of 89, friends and family put up a $25,000 reward for any information about what happened to Brenda Schaefer. And police would actually interview the Tensley brothers, right? The individuals that killed Brenda's brother, the police officer, in connection with her disappearance. but they couldn't make any connection.

You know, I don't know, Gibbs. I'm sure they probably thought was it some type of retribution or, you know, something like that. But I talked about the media, right? This was a big, big story in Louisville. And Melignato didn't really shy away from the spotlight. You know, he was willing to talk to the media. In March of 89, he told the local paper that he knew he was the chief suspect. in Brenda's disappearance.

Okay. But at the same time, he told them he had nothing to do with it. So I mean, he just putting the obvious out there. Yeah. You know, I mean, why wouldn't he be the number one suspect, really, at this point? Now, later that month in March, Ignato received a letter ordering him to send information on the location of Brenda Schaefer's body to a post office box. And the letter goes on to say that if he does.

doesn't do this, he's going to be executed by a gang. Well, this is somebody trying to generate a lead. It is. And it turns out that it was Brenda's boss, the doctor. Oh, yeah. Dr. Spalding that sent this letter. And later on, he's going to be convicted of terroristic threatening and received this whopping fine of $300.

Yeah. Well. But like I said. he really liked Brenda. Everybody did. So I get that he did something wrong. But it sounds to me, Gibbs, like he was really trying to get something to happen. And like many others, he thought that Melignato knew what had happened to Brenda. And he was trying to force the action. So we move forward to October of 89. So we're a year after, right, a little bit over a year after Brenda has disappeared. The police haven't come up with anything concrete that they can move forward with.

So they go to Melignato and they suggest that he should go in front of a grand jury. And against the advice of his own counsel, he does this. He didn't have to do it. But he said he wanted to in order to clear his name. Okay. And he testified for about four hours. And he was asked questions about his background, his family, work history, pretty normal things to start out with. Then he started getting questions about Mary Ann Shore, you know, very pointed questions about, you know, how quickly they began having sex after Brenda's disappearance. And Mel said on the stand that they started having sex around the first part of the year. So according to his testimony, maybe three or four months after Brenda disappeared.

Right. But he also said it was an on and off again kind of thing. But the big question was when the prosecutor asked him, did you kill her Mel? Obviously referring to Brenda. And Mel Ignato replied, no, absolutely not. I did not kill her. I would not have laid a finger on that woman. And this is a big deal in this case.

And it's going to come back around later on. But after his testimony, you know, talking about Mary Ann Shore, police questioned her. And they also asked her to testify in front of the grand jury. She gave some conflicting information about how many times she had seen Brenda Schaefer. And I think right from the beginning, police knew that she was hiding. something, that she knew more than what she was telling. But it wouldn't be until early January of 1990 that Mary Ann Shore would finally give up her information. She'd have a cut of a deal? She cuts a deal with law enforcement. And in exchange offers to tell them everything about what happened

to Brenda Schaefer. And according to her, Mel Ignato brought Brenda Schaefer. to Marianne's house that night at gunpoint. But again, Gibbs, she tells him they had been planning this for weeks in advance. Mel had given Marianne a list of things to get ahead of time to have stashed in her house. Mel had dug a grave out behind Marianne's house, you know, well in advance of this night. she even said that they tested the house a couple of days before by having Mary Ann Shore scream as loud as she could. Yeah.

While she was inside of her house, Mel was standing on the outside listening to find out how much he could hear. Wow. She called it screen testing. Yep. Sick. But then she goes into the details of that night saying that Mel, Ignato forced Brenda to strip, bound and gagged her, and then tied her to a coffee table in the house. He raped and sodomized Brenda while Marianne Shore took pictures.

Marianne said that later Mel took Brenda into the bedroom, threw her on the bed, and killed her by holding chloroform over her mouth. And then after she was dead, they put her body in a trash bag, took it out behind her. Shores rented house and buried it in the hole that they had dug earlier. And when he left, Mel took the film from the camera as well as Brenda's jewelry with him. So this was brutal. This was a brutal night for Brenda Schaefer. Absolutely it was. Tortured, sexually assaulted, ultimately murdered. Yeah. But the police are a little bit leery about this confession from Mary Ann. So they want her to take them to where Brenda's body had been buried. But at the same time,

they want to arrest Mel Ignato. I mean, they had wanted to for a long time. They just didn't have anything in the way of evidence to do it. Now they have some, but they want more. So they ask Marianne Shore to meet with Mel. And they want her to wear a wire and try to get him to say something that's going to criminate himself. So they set up this meeting. Mary Ann tells Mel that she scared that someone is going to dig up the body because the house that she had rented back then was being sold. And Mel told her not to worry about it because the place we dug was not shallow. Now, the audio from this meeting is going to be very important, right, for the trial that's going to come later. But there's problems with the audio. There's certain parts of it that are very tough to make out. And in particular, there's

certain words that are harder than others to understand. Yeah. So that's just a small snippet of what was about 15 minutes worth of audio. But what to me is that the last part, Gibbs, I clearly heard the word Doug. Yeah. But it's going to come into question as we move in. And into this trial. But this was enough to convince police and they arrested Mel Ignato. And after the arrest, the police searched his house. They sent a number of items off to the crime lab, including a camera with film inside it. But there is not going to be much of anything in the way of physical evidence that was collected at his house. And this camera with the film, it's not the film of the pictures that Mary Ann Shore took that night.

If it was, that would have been a slam dunk. It took a couple of days to locate and exhume Brenda's body. Actually had to bring in some canines. Even though Marianne told them where it was, they had a hard time finding it. But they finally did find Brenda's body. And it was exactly where Marianne Shore said it was buried. The autopsy would later show.

show that Brenda had been abused, but her body was so badly decomposed. Because you have to figure, Gibbs, this is about a year and a half after her disappearance. That's a lot of time for, you know, decay and things like that to set in. So even in that environment, right? I mean, Louisville area gets freezing temperatures and... When the body's buried. Body's buried. Which does make a difference.

Yeah, it depends on how far he went down, you know, if he went down below the frost line and things like that. But it's still not going to keep a body from decomposing. No, not in this, not in this area. And police didn't find any usable DNA evidence. So Melignato's bell was set at half a million dollars, but it would be two years before his trial would start in December of 1991. And Marianne Shore was a big reason for this delay because she developed facial paralysis,

caused by Bell's palsy in 1990 that prevented her from testify. She actually tried. She tried to testify and couldn't get the words out. Wow. So they had no choice but to delay the trial. But her condition did get better in 1991. And she was able to testify at a pretrial hearing. By this time she had married and she was using.

the name Mary Ann Shore and Low. It's kind of a mouthful. It is. And just before Mel's trial started, Marianne pleaded guilty to tampering with physical evidence after Brenda Schaefer was killed. So this was the deal that she struck, right? For her testimony, for telling the authorities exactly what happened that night, they only charged her with evidence tamper.

But there was so much media coverage of this case in Louisville that the judge had no choice but to move the trial. And it was moved to Covington, Kentucky, very close to Cincinnati. Actually, not very far from us, Gibbs. Right, pretty close. Covington's what, an hour away, give or take? Basically where you were this morning. Yeah. You were right.

The Cincinnati airport is actually in Covington, Kentucky, which is kind of strange. It is. But we kind of mentioned it. The prosecution had no physical evidence linking Ignato to the murder of Brenda Schaefer. Their star witness was Mary Ann Shore. He kept telling her she was here for a sex therapy class that she needed to have this because she just was a very cold nature and he needed that sex. So that's just a little bit of Shore testifying at the trial. And you can hear her say, Gibbs, that Mel told her that this was going to be some type of sex therapy.

Yeah. For Brenda. Right. The other star of this trial was the tape. I mean, the tape was huge. Mary Ann Shore speaking with Mel before he was arrested, the prosecution told the jury the brutal details of the murder, as given to them by Mary Ann Shore, and then they played the tape for the jury. And like I mentioned, the entire tape was about 15 minutes long. The defense countered with the lack of physical evidence linking

Mel to the murder. They talked about Dr. William Spalding, Brenda's employer, as someone who could have committed this murder, and they tore into the credibility of Mary Ann as a witness, saying that she could have killed Brenda out of jealousy. Could have. Because she was in love with Melignato. And they hammered the FBI tape. They spent a lot of time trying to combat this taped conversation. In particular, the part that we heard where they said the word was either Doug or got.

Now, to me, I heard Doug. And that was not, they probably even had a better version of the tape. I don't know than what we had. There was another part in the conversation that I don't have a clip for, but where the defense was arguing about whether a particular word was sight or safe. Now, on December 21st, 1991, after six hours of deliberation, the jury acquitted Melignato. of all charges. And I think everyone in Louisville was shocked. I truly believe Gibbs that the entire town,

and probably a much bigger radius than that, was convinced that Melignato had murdered Brenda Schaefer. One juror said afterwards, the reason he was found not guilty was there was not one shred of evidence that connected him to the crime. Nothing. We don't know if Mel did it or not.

What we do know is there's no proof of it. And they talked about the fact that Marianne did not make for a very good witness for the prosecution. There was talk about the way she was dressed, the way that, you know, she spoke, the way that she carried herself. I guess she just wasn't very believable. But probably the biggest thing was the tape. And we said the audio was not great.

there were a couple of words that the jury had a hard time deciding on. Now, you heard in the clip, Ignato saying that the place they dug was not shallow. I mean, I heard Doug. But what you didn't hear is there's another part of the tape after that where he says, besides that one area right by where that site is does not have any trees by it. There you go. And it's the word site. that the jury really had trouble with.

They listened to this tape over and over, and some of them thought it was sight. Some of them thought it was the word safe. So you have some jurors thinking they're talking about digging a hole and burying a safe. And again, they couldn't decide on whether Ignato had said the word dug or got in another part of the tape. But they acquitted him. and Mel Ignato was set free the very next day.

He had spent two years in jail, right, awaiting trial, going through trial. Now, for her part, after making the deal, Marianne received a five-year sentence on the evidence tampering charge. So you have Melignato goes free. Mary Ann's going to do five years. That's where we're at right now. But Mel's freedom is not going to last long. The very next month, a federal grant.

jury indicted him on perjury charges. And this is where this story gets even more bizarre than it already is, because as this perjury trial is approaching, an unbelievable discovery was made inside the former home of Melignato. He lost the house. Yeah. Right. I mean, so much money probably went into his defense. That house was going to be sold. And it was sold. And it was sold. The new homeowners were in the process of making some renovations and a worker pulled up some carpet. And they found a plastic bag filled with jewelry and undeveloped rolls of film. So they called the police. The police come in, take control of these items.

The jewelry was determined to have belonged to Brenda Schaefer. So I believe Gibbs, this was the jewelry that she was going to give back to Mel. on this final date. I don't know if date is the right word, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah. This final meeting. Right. And then they send the film off to the lab to be developed.

And the results of these pictures are shocking because they turn out to be the pictures that Marianne took the night that Brenda Schaefer was murdered inside her house. There were over 100 pictures. And these pictures were brutal. It's a lot of pictures, man. It is. Especially back in that day. And they showed Brenda Schaefer being tortured, sexually assaulted.

They basically backed up everything that Marianne had previously told law enforcement and that she had talked about at the trial, but the jury found her not to be credible. But Melignato's face was not in any of these pictures. Apparently, Marianne had done a very good. job of keeping his face out of the pictures. So what you see is his body and a lot of the pictures he's nude. So police get a court order to compel him to come in so that they can take pictures of his naked body. Oh, and his little thingy. For what he's overcom, for what you think he's overcompensated for. When the two sets of pictures are compared, there's no doubt, right? that Melignato is the man in the photos with Brenda Schaefer.

And it wasn't just his skin tag. There was other identifying, you know, marks on his body. But it's 100% conclusive. You know, I was just looking for a way to put that skin tag back. I know. That's like, love that skin tag thing, man. Well, I don't love the skin tag thing. I love the way we use as a reference towards, you know what.

I mean, you just put, you just step in a hole. I do, man. A lot. Somehow try to dig your way out of it. I'm like standing there to the waist in the hole and I'm still talking trying to get out and collecting sand and dirt in my mouth. Yeah. You, people like you, just keep shoveling it while my mouth is wide open, you know,

while I'm talking. It's like Cool Hand Luke, you know. He digs the hole. You always go back to Cool Hand. I know. Digging that hole. But what you don't really. realize is it's a dastardly plan on my part to set you up to step in that hole.

As always. As always. Yes. But you have to ask the question, Gibbs. Why would Melignato keep what is unbelievably incriminating evidence? Why do they keep anything they do? Well, right. And Roy Hazelwood famed special agent at the FBI's behavior.

Science Unit. Yeah. He was called in. He consulted on this case a little bit. And he said that, you know, it was no surprise to him. He said, Malignato's actions represented a textbook case of the sexually sadistic criminal, an individual who becomes sexually aroused by his victim's suffering. And he said, sexual sadists love to keep records of their activities.

And we know that from the research that we've done. Right. in some of the cases that we've profiled, I guess the desire to keep these trophies or to have something to relive, it's just too powerful for some of these people. Because, you know, you think about it logically. You should get rid of that stuff. Exactly.

Right away. So that it would never be found, but they can't do it. You know, there's something in their brain that's telling them, I need these things. I want to relive these horrible things that I've done and in a lot of cases get sexual gratification from it. It's just the next day, October 2nd, 1992, Melignato is in court and pleaded guilty to the perjury charges

and also confessed to murdering Brenda Schaefer in front of a federal judge. And in court, Ignato said on September 24th, 1988, I did take Brenda Sue Schaefer over to Mary Ann Shore's house and I did physically and sexually abuse her and I did murder her. Mary Ann Shore participated in these acts. We together buried her body back behind the house. But then Ignato turns to the family of Brenda Schaefer and says, says, I assume total responsibility for what I did. I know what I did was wrong and horrible. There are reasons, but there are no excuses. I want to say to Brenda's family that I am very sorry

this happened. I know all the pain and suffering I have caused you. I have felt it myself. So I've got to break this down a little bit. He says, there are reasons for what he did. Yeah. But there's no excuses. So he knows why he did it. Right. But at the same time, he's saying he knows it was wrong. I mean, why even say anything at all at that point? I know. And then he talks about, you know, I've caused you all so much pain.

I felt it myself. Well, who cares about the pain that you felt? You're the one that caused the whole damn thing. Yeah. These kind of things always get to me. What these people say when they're addressing the family. It's almost like a backhanded compliment. You know how backhanded compliment works.

It's almost like they're saying, I'm sorry, but there's a but to it. And it's the butt part that gets me. Yeah. That's not when you put a butt in anything. No, you just say, I'm sorry. I mean, it's not going to change the fact, but they can't stop at that. They have to add something stupid with it. And then you have to think about the jurors in the original trial.

You know, they felt regret. A lot of them expressed both regret and relief after Ignato confessed. Regret that they had not been able to put him away the first time, but relief that some amount of justice was served. But they still stuck to their original belief that there simply was not enough evidence in that trial of guilt to convict Melo Ignato. I mean, because obviously, Gibbs, if they'd have had those pictures, that would have sealed his fate at the trial. Absolutely.

But they didn't have all that. Now, after the fact, it turns out that everything that Mary Ann Shore said was correct, but at the time, they were having to weigh that. Ignato was sentenced to eight years on the federal perjury conviction. He would end up serving five. So you have to go back and look at his decision that he made to testify. in front of a grand jury in 1989. In that testimony, he said that he did not kill Brenda Schaefer. Well, obviously, that was proven to be a lie.

Right. And he served time on the perjury conviction. But he didn't have to testify. So if he never testifies, they don't have anything to charge him with. But that wasn't the only perjuring that Mel Ignato did. So we talked about the incident with Dr. Spalding, who mailed that threatening letter to Mel after Brenda disappeared. Well, there was a trial where he ultimately got convicted of the terroristic threats.

But Ignato testified at the trial. And he testified that the last time he saw Brenda Schaefer, they had a loving relationship. Now, of course, we know that's not true because he killed her. Exactly. So the state gets into it and they go after Mel. They indict him for perjury in the testimony in that trial because that's all they can do. They cannot retry Mel Ignato for the murder of Brenda Schaefer because of the double jeopardy clause. The double jeopardy clause is in the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

and it says that no person shall be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb. So in short, you can't try somebody for something that they've already been acquitted of. Now, there are a lot of exceptions to this double jeopardy clause that I don't want to go into all of them. Right. But in this case, there was nothing that they could do to Melignato for murdering Brenda Schaefer because he had been acquitted by a jury. But if you're the state and there's a way to go after him, you're going to do it. And you should. And it worked because he was ultimately sentenced to nine years for the state perjury charges in 2001.

He appealed to the Kentucky Supreme Court. They refused to hear his case. But Melignato was paroled from the Eastern Kentucky Correctional Com. complex in 2006. So he did some time, but nowhere near what he would have gotten if he had been convicted of killing Brenda Schaefer. He probably would have died in jail. I mean, he was 50 years old at the time he committed the murder. Right. But after he's paroled, he returned to Louisville, which is a little strange because he was definitely the most hated man in Louisville. He's probably one of the most hated men in all of Kentucky.

Yeah, for sure. And he ends up living in a house about four miles from the house in which he murdered Brenda Schaefer. Wow. All of that just seems so strange to me. Now, Marianne Shore Inlow died in 2004 at the age of 54 at a hospice facility in Louisville. Mel died in his apartment in 2008 at the age of seven. He was found by his son after his son was unable to reach him by phone. Yeah.

And apparently, Mel's health had been declining for some time and he fell several times inside the apartment and ultimately died. But what about his son, Gibbs? You know, I mean, that's something we sometimes talk about, but sometimes we kind of forget about it. You know, here's a man that, for all I know, didn't do. anything wrong in his entire life, but has the stigma and will always have the stigma of being Melignato son. I mean, how tough would that be growing up, living your life, everybody knowing

that your father was this horrible person? This monster. And that's not a very common last name. It's not like you're Smith and nobody's going to know. No, I mean, that's exactly right. know. Brenda Sue Schaefer is buried in her family's plot in Cave Hill Cemetery in Louisville. But there was just something about this case that, you know, grabbed me from the first time that I started researching it. I mean, partly because he got away with murder, partly because when you read about Brenda Schaefer, I mean, this was a woman that was loved by everyone that she came into contact with. The only mistake that she made was really falling in love with the wrong man. Wrong person, yeah.

But that's it, Gibbs. That is the case of Mel Ignato. Mr. Ignato? Just a horrible human being. Yeah, he really was. Really was. And then you talk about Marianne Shore, not a very good human being either. No, I don't know how you do that.

I don't know how, I mean, I get that some people are just, so in love and so just want to do anything to being that person's life. But to sit back and watch that, take pictures. I mean, really? You got to draw the line somewhere. I mean, I get being infatuated, being in love, being willing, you know. Takes, I kill somebody for you to a whole other level. Yeah, that's something that to me is hard to comprehend.

Yeah. If you want to break the law together, go, I don't know. shoplift together, you know, if that's really what you want. If you really want to, like, live dangerously, man, you know. What about streaking to, uh, KFC? Oh, streaking to the KFC or robbing the KFC, getting all the free buckets of chicken. Well, it's not free if you've stolen it. You didn't pay for it. Well, that's true. So it's kind of free. I still like, see, I go to streaking to the KFC. You automatically jump it up to now we're robbing the KFC. Just for the free chicken. Not me and you. I said we, but...

Yeah, yeah, whoever those people... You and I are not going streaking together to the KFC. I'm not going streaking with you anywhere. All right, guys, we've got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's hear it. Hi, Mike and Gibby. My name is Kristen, and I'm from Mount Prospect, Illinois.

And I just want to say to the two of you how obsessed I am with your podcast. I just recently started listening about a month ago, and I am literally hooked. I love the chemistry between the two of you. you. I enjoy how you guys just accentuate everything that you say and make it easy to understand. And as a listener, I really appreciate that. Also, I really don't listen to the radio now when I'm in the car. I'd rather listen to you guys. And so with my six and four-year-old, it's kind of difficult to do when they're in the back seat. But definitely on my way to work, when I head to work, when I come home from work, you guys are definitely something that I listen to regularly.

And I just want to say thank you so much. I appreciate you guys. I love what you guys are doing. And thank you so much. Talk to you soon. Wow. Well, thanks, Kristen. Yeah.

We love you too. That was a great voicemail. She brought up something important, Gibbs, talking about, you know, our episodes that we do are not family friendly. They are not. Obviously. But you and I have talked about doing something. in the future that that would be yeah exactly that you could you know listen to teacat on your own have something with us that you could listen to with your kids in the car yeah and wouldn't be

story time but it would be a podcast that wasn't be solely about uh it'd be acceptable heinous acts yeah hi my name is Shannon gleam I live in New Jersey and I was um wondering if you could look to a podcast about a man named Ambrose Harris out of Trenton, New Jersey, and he had an accomplice named Gloria Dunn that I happened to be in jail with at the time because I'm sober now, but I wasn't back in the early 90s, which is around the time that this crime took place and she was in jail during that time. But yeah, he murdered a girl named Kristen Huggins, which was an art school. She was in college for art and I don't know. She got lost in Trenton and he took advantage of that and then he murdered her and drove around with her in the trunk of his, her car actually

for a few days until they were caught. So if you could look that up, that'd be great. Thanks. All right. Great voicemail. Gibbs, that one kind of combined two things that I like. Good case suggestions and also personal experiences with these stories. You know how much I like that when people write in and say they knew so-and-so or went to school with so-and-so. Yeah, you love those connections, man. I do. Hey, guys. This is Andrew out here in Knoxville.

I do love you guys' podcasts. It does help me get through the day. I work close over the day. And you guys are actually all listening to while I'm working. I drive for a living. But there is a case that I wanted you guys to check out. I'm originally from Christensburg, Virginia, and this girl that I've met before, they call of a selfie killer and there's Amanda Taylor.

She actually stabbed her father-in-law over 20 times. She claims that she did it for her husband that ended up taking his own life because he was addicted to two pills. They actually had an episode of her on Web of Live if you wanted to check that out. But yeah, I just wanted to say hello and I love you guys. It's a lot. Have a good one. Bye.

All right. So another voicemail that combines case suggestion with a person. experience. I'm liking this. Well, you know, I'm liking it because of that. No, I get what you're saying. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Ariel from Utah. I just wanted to call in and tell you, thank you for making such a great podcast. And I really admire how much respect that you guys give to the stories that you tell and especially to your victim. This is by far my favorite podcast. Keep up the good work boys. Hashtag team bird and team Gibby. Love you guys and think. Wow, that's a great voicemail from Ariel. Straight to the point. Makes us feel good. Yeah, it does. Appreciate it.

Well, I loved it. All right, Gibbs, we've got to go to the mailbag. Mailbag. You should have, like, a, you know how you go back in the vault. You should have like a mailbag noise or a postal guy saying something or. You've got mail. Or you get your, or just use that. I just use that.

You got mail. So we had Jamie Bearden who just got married. Oh, congratulations. Send us a huge box of spices. Really? From her favorite spices. company for summer grilling. Yeah. So I mean, there's a mess of stuff in this box too for us. Oh, I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Janet Hart sent me a couple of chips from Texas. Oh. And she sent you a very

cool Luchenbach, Texas magnet. I see that right here in front of me. Because in her words, she thinks you should start collecting magnets from all over the world. So this will be my A Lucanbach, Texas, established in 1849. That's the first magnet right there. That's the first of what could be many. It could be, who knows. Terry Tokovic sent three chips from my favorite place to say, Regina Saskatchewan. Regina.

That's cool, though. Appreciate that. Tisha Wells sent a couple of chips from California. Hey, Tisha. Although in the letter, she says she's definitely Team Ghibie. Well, that's why I just say. And I could have left that out, but I didn't. She would have messaged me and said, hey.

Fergie didn't tell you. He didn't tell you, but I appreciate that. And Josh Kuzma sent in a couple of chips from Pennsylvania. Oh, that's cool. Yep. Yeah. So appreciate all that. So Patreon winner of the month, Gibbs, for June.

Yeah. We selected it. I sent an email out, but I've not gotten a response yet. Oh. So I may have to go on to the next person, and then if that person, comes back, they'll get for July. Okay. So I'll announce it next week.

Okay. Good. But that's it. That is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.