True Crime All The Time - Michael Wayne Jackson

Episode Date: February 8, 2021

Michael Wayne Jackson was a man with a long criminal record, abused alcohol and drugs, and was diagnosed with multiple forms of mental illness. Jackson woke up on the morning of September 22, 1986, for a scheduled meeting at his house with his probation officer. Things went sour quickly and Jackson shot and killed the man. This began a 13 hour or so crime spree that spanned three states as he fled.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the life and crimes of Michael Wayne Jackson. He had spent much of his life behind bars. But, why did he snap that September day and kill his probation officer? Some have theorized that he knew he would fail his scheduled drug test. He murdered three people that day, carjacked and abducted people, and shot it out with the police. All of this occurred as he made his way from Indianapolis, Indiana to St. Louis, Missouri. But, police couldn't catch him, even after he crashed his car as they were chasing him. For eleven days, Jackson terrorized the small town of Wright City, MO as he hid outside of town. The end of that terror came in dramatic fashion as police closed in on Jackson.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 219 of the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson. Givie, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing great. Good. You and I just got done eating some Zah, which was very good. It was really good. So we're full up and we're ready to take. We are. And we got a lot of good stuff coming. You know, on unsolved, there's an episode out right now on the 1971 disappearance of Kathy Moulton. So we're headed up to Portland, Maine. And we talk about some different areas of Maine.

It's the longest running unsolved disappearance in Maine's history. So definitely check that out. Before we get into our episode, let's give our shoutouts. We continue to see some amazing support. Brenda Billington jumped out to our highest level. Hey, Brenda. We had Rhonda. Thank you, Rhonda.

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support to continued Patreon support. All of that is amazing. Yeah. We had some great PayPal donations as well from Samantha Ungahir. What's going on? Ungehire. Mariah. Mariah. Mariah. Amanda Finley gave a sizable donation. Man, thanks Amanda. And April Wartner. Well, thank you, Wartner. So a lot of great support there as well. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time? And I'm so ready. We are talking about a man named. Michael Wayne Jackson. And you got to add the Wayne, right? Not to be confused with the pop star Michael Jackson. Woo, who, who, who, who, you do it much better than I ever do. This Michael Jackson had a history of mental illness and was incarcerated a number of times. In 1986, he went on a three-state crime spree

and murdered at least three people. Along the way, he carjacked and abducted a number of people, shot it out with police, and basically terrorized a small town. He's bad. Jackson is a guy, much like Gary Evans, who we did last week, who never made it to trial for his crimes. But I think as we go through, you know, everyone will see that the evidence against him was pretty compelling. So I add that to the fact that I really don't feel like saying allegedly throughout the whole episode, I do think Gibbs, one of the things that I found most interesting about this case is that the majority of it takes place on a single day. Maybe one of the longest days we've ever talked about.

Yeah. Now, the background on Michael Wayne Jackson is a little bear. He was born on September 23rd, 1945, to Hubert and Bertha Jackson. Find a Grave.com shows him having an older brother who died in 2007. Michael's father died in 1978, and it appears that his mother remarried and had at least one child, a daughter named Tammy, who would have been Michael's half-sister. And I think this is very different for us, Gibbs, unlike, most killers, I just could not find much information on Jackson's early years, but especially on

the family dynamics. And maybe that's because there was nothing there. And for me, that's always a shame because you don't know if, okay, nobody ever figured out what the dynamic was, or they did and it just wasn't worthy of reporting on because he didn't have what we would consider to be, you know, the childhood that many of these killers have. He did have a history of alcohol and drug abuse and Jackson had a history of mental health issues. Gibbs over the years, he was in and out of hospitals. He was treated for schizophrenia and antisocial personality disorder.

His crimes appear to have started around the age of 14. When he and two classmates, they robbed a taxi driver at gunpoint. Okay. That's pretty ruthless for your, allegedly, your first crime. Yeah, 14. Yeah. So pretty early, right? 14 years old to be using a gun.

Jackson was married at the age of 19. But Gibbs, this was a guy who was in and out of prison pretty much all the time. And, you know, I think it's pretty tough to make a marriage work under those circumstances. His wife divorced him after five years during one of his prison steps. But they married again a few years later, only to realize about a year in that, you know, we've made another mistake. I always find that a little bizarre, you know, you're like, I'm done, I'm gone, go through the whole process legally to be divorced, just to turn around and come back. you know what, let's get back together. Let's give it one more shot. Yeah. I don't know. For some people, I think it's maybe one of those I just can't quit you type of things until it

becomes, hey, you know what? I can quit you. Maybe they need a patch for that. Oh, that would be a good moneymaker. You know, like a nicotine patch or something. A patch for those relationships that you just can't quit. Now, I'm not talking about domestic violence situations. Obviously, that's not something to joke about. I'm talking about those relationships, you know, they're a little bit toxic. Both parties aren't really good for each other, but for whatever reason, they just can't seem to stay away. Well, sometimes I think they like the drama. That is true.

You know, they bring it into the relationship because they thrive in drama. Yeah. Some people do thrive on it. They invite it in. They perpetuate it. Now, the couple did have two daughters. together, but it was reported that he only saw his daughters a couple of times, like literally, two or three times. And I'm not sure if that's because he was a shitty father or because he was

locked up, you know, so much of his life. Or maybe a combination of both of those. Yeah, it could have been combo. So like I said, not much in the way of background, but I think we have enough to paint a picture here of a man who from an early age was in constant trouble with the law. He had issues with both alcohol and drugs. And some of that may have played a part in his criminal activities. But, and I think this is very important. We are dealing with a man here who also had mental health issues. And these were documented because he had been hospitalized on more than one occasion.

And all those things are probably not a good combination of the half. No. No, definitely not. In 1985, Jackson was arrested on a federal firearms charge. He was found in possession of a sought off 12-gauge shotgun, some Molotov cocktails, and a large amount of ammunition. Just some personal use items? Sure.

Yeah. I mean, has anything ever good come from a sawed-off shotgun and some Molotov cocktails. I can't think of anything good coming out of a Molotov cocktail. Well, give me one use, legitimate use for a Molotov cocktail. You really want to get that bonfire going? Well, that will do it for sure. I do think it's a little hard to argue that you're going hunting or, you know, something like that when you're in possession of those things. Before his trial, Jackson was held in a Marion County, Indiana jail. the deputy chief of the Marion County Sheriff's Office later told news outlets that while Jackson was in jail, he told them, quote, when I get out of here, I'm going to buy some guns and start shooting people.

He was ultimately found fit to stand trial and was sentenced to one year in jail and three years probation. Okay. You could say that's a light sentence. Right. But again, we're talking about a firearms charge here. Yeah. I'm not going to get too into it. We're not talking about crimes against other people. What I do want to talk about is this prophecy of, hey, when I get out of here, I'm going to start shooting people. Yeah, it sounds like something that should have been inserted into his file to have

a conversation with him before he got released. Well, and I think that's part of the problem that I have, right? So in April of 86, he was released on probation from the U.S. medical center for federal prisoners in Springfield, Missouri while he was there. Doctors noted chronic paranoia, schizophrenia, anti-social behavior. And they said that Michael showed violent tendencies. So obviously, he didn't spend much time locked up, right? He was only there for, you know, about a year. Right.

It's a little shocking. I think just because of his record, right, the crimes that he had committed in the past, his record up to that point included more than 30 arrests for things like rape, robbery, assault with intent to kill, and auto theft. That's a pretty heavy rap sheet. It is. I mean, I talked about the firearms charge kind of being a victimless crime. Well, most of these other ones are not, right?

Right. When you're getting into areas like rape and assault with intent to kill, those are very, very serious crime. And on top of that, you had his statement that he made about when he got out of there, what he attended to do. Now, maybe it has something to do with this being a federal charge, all the other ones were state charges. I don't know. Or, you know, maybe that was the max sentence he could get.

Right. You know, it also came out that Jackson's own mother had written a letter. letter to authorities asking that her son be permanently committed to an institution where he could be helped mentally and physically. The later stated, it should be very plain that Mike cannot take care of life in society. And apparently Gibbs, she wrote this letter after her son gave her a bear hug that cracked some of her ribs. Now, I'm sure that was not the only impetus for the letter. Right. But to me it's very clear. This is a mother who I don't, because of our lack of background, I don't really know how much she loved her son. Obviously cared enough for him to write the letter.

That tells you something. Well, sure it does. But is being, I think, very honest in her assessment that my son needs help. He cannot cope with the world. He has mental health problems. He needs help. Yeah, in most cases, a mom knows their son better than anybody. So, you know, I think when you look at all of these things, it's kind of hard to think that the system really worked here, right? I get it. He was in on a firearms charge, but we talked about his lengthy record up to that point. What all was taken into consideration? Doesn't seem like much. If anything, what about the mental health evaluations by doctors and note from his mother? As you mentioned his statement. I always hate to blame the system or authorities because we don't have every single detail. But man, to me, it sure seems like this was a guy who needed help and that at the very least he should have been kept in the medical center for a longer period of time to get that help. But maybe it is as simple as the fact that his sentence was what it was. And once that was up, they had to let him out.

So he got parole. And after he was paroled, he ended up in Indianapolis, Indiana, moved into a rundown house that had no electric and no water. The windows were covered with plastic sheeting. All right. You and I might have had some houses like that in the past. Oh, we had a mini to deal with. The Indianapolis news reported that neighbors they interviewed said Jackson often slept on a mattress in the bed of his truck. Well, I know there's a love with a man in his truck, but I prefer to be

somewhere inside. Yeah. He had a house. Yeah. Now, it didn't have all the amenities that you would like to have in a house. Right. But I don't, as far as I know, he had a roof. So sleeping on a mattress in the bed of your truck seems strange. A little bit. Yeah. But that's the thing about Jackson. I mean, we're going to talk about a lot of things that to most people, they're going to sound very, very strange. And you're going to have to wonder, okay, what role did some of his mental health issues play? Sure. And some of these things that he did, some of the decisions that he made. His crime spree began on September 22nd, 1986. So at this point in time, time Michael Wayne Jackson was 41 years old, essentially living in a van down by the river

or the equivalent to that. Yeah. I mean, let's be honest, he doesn't have a lot going for him. It's hard to keep a job when you're locked up as much as this guy was. I did see where he worked some construction on and off. So, you know, he did have a few skills, I think, in that arena. but those people tend to like it when you show up. And when you keep getting busted time after time, it means you can't be at the job site. Well, they're going to find somebody else. Yeah, they kind of want dependability.

But at this point in his life, he was unemployed. I think he was getting some kind of stipend, some kind of pension. I don't know if it was a disability pension, because I don't know what else it would have been. It was, you know, maybe 300 bucks a month. Now, when you search this guy, you won't find a lot of photos of him. The ones you will find show a man who looks like he had not shaved or cut his hair in quite some time.

Gibbs, this was a guy whose beard had a beard. Oh, one of those type of guys. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's like Unabomber. Yeah, you know the kind I'm talking about where it looks like you don't even have a mouth. Oh, yeah. You just can't see it because it's just all beard on top of beard.

They got leftovers inside the beard in the beard. Either that or possibly there's something nesting somewhere inside there. And for some reason, he made the decision to spray paint his face and beard black and silver. I don't think he was an Oakland Raiders fan. Now, I get it, right? You want that salt and pepper, George Clooney look. I don't think that's what this guy was after. It's all the rave, man.

It is. Yeah. I never actually found out why he did it. And it's one of the perplexing things about this case. And we'll see why at the end, but not really giving too much a way to say that Michael Jackson's not going to give us any information. You know, everything that is gleaned is through witnesses and account, you know, eyewitness accounts, things like that.

So make your best guess. Yeah. on that morning, September 22nd, 38-year-old probation officer Thomas Gall showed up to Jackson's home around 8 a.m. There was really nothing special about the visit, right? This was a routine visit by a probation officer to collect a urine sample from a parolee. But Michael didn't want to give the urine sample. Not sure if he knew it would test dirty or not. I don't know. What I do know is that an argument broke out. between the two men and a neighbor later told police that he witnessed Thomas Gall, run through the front yard away from Jackson's house.

Jackson was chasing him with a sawed-off shotgun and he fired a couple of shots into Gall's arm, I think one into his back, dropping him to the ground. Jackson then walked over and blasted Gall in the head. at point blank range. Gibbs with a 12-gauge shotgun. And you and I have talked before about what that type of weapon does, especially at very close range. Yeah, an enormous amount of damage.

It did. It killed him instantly. The neighbor called police. And they got there pretty quickly, but not quickly enough to catch Jackson, who loaded up his shotgun into his old pickup truck, and he drove away from the scene. Police found Thomas Gall dead at the scene.

He had been a probation officer for 11 years. But this was his first meeting with Michael Jackson. So Gibbs, I don't think he really had any idea of the type of guy that he was dealing with other than what he had read in his file and who knows what was in there. Yeah. Gall had a wife and two sons. he had served in the Marine Corps as a first lieutenant. He was well liked by everyone and was considered to be a fair and professional probation officer.

But I think a fact that I found very interesting is that Thomas Gall was the first United States probation officer to be killed in the line of duty by a parolee. That's shocking. Yeah, it's kind of hard to believe. You know, when you think about it, you know, this is 1986. Think about the number of probation officers, the number of parolees throughout the years. And this is the very first time that a parolee had killed their probation officer in the line of duty. You would have thought it would have happened at some point many years prior and really a lot of times. I'm really surprised it didn't happen earlier with a lot more.

more occurrences. Jackson next showed up at J.B.'s Market sometime around 8.30 a.m. Inside the store was the owner, 43-year-old Jim Hall, and 60-year-old Russell Van Osdahl, a salesman for the Perfection Biscuit Company. These guys knew each other pretty well because Russell delivered product to the store almost every weekday. So as Russell was working, stocking some shelves and chatting with Jim, Jackson burst into the store. He demanded money from Jim Hall. So essentially he was robbing the store. But he shot Jim in the throat when he thought that he was taking too long to get him the money. This guy has no patience. Fast on the trigger. Yeah, I've seen some varying reports. Most of the reports seem to, you know, kind of go with this theory.

that he was impatient, he got impatient. And then I think there are some theories that he was just going in there to kill. So it didn't really matter how fast the store owner moved. Because regardless, he was going to take him out. Yeah. And I think you can look at it a couple different ways. Police got to the scene of the shooting very quickly to find Jim Hall dead. But once again, Jackson was already gone.

Now, Russell van Osdahl was gone as well. Jackson had forced him to drive him in his delivery truck to the Indianapolis International Airport. But once they got there, Michael released Russell, which I'm surprised. I am too. And I think, you know, we're going to be saying these things a lot in this episode. Why did he do this in this one instance, but then do something completely. different in another, right? He could have killed both men. Sure. You know, why kill the store clerk? Was it really because the guy wasn't moving as fast as you wanted him to? Did you get the money anyway?

You know what I'm saying? Why shoot him and then make this guy drive you to the airport, but then be like, yeah, hey, thanks. Thanks for the lift. I'll see you later. I'm leaving you unharmed. Police found Jackson's 1974 pickup truck back at J.B.'s market. And this abduction of Russell van Osdahl was just the first of many as Michael Wayne Jackson started changing cars to throw off the police as he made his getaway. Because at the airport, he carjacked 30-year-old Mark McLean and took off in his red Azuzu truck. They don't make a Zuzu anymore, do they give? I don't think so.

Azuzu, no. You remember the guy that used to do the commercials for them? I think they called him Joe Azuzu. He was an actor. Oh, yeah. And he had like a recurring role in their commercials. I just don't remember those commercials. I remember the Azuzu truck,

and I think they had like a wannabe Jeep kind of vehicle. Yeah, I think they made a number of models. Yeah. They're out there with, you know, the fishbowl car and the fiesta and all those other fun vehicles. Well, don't drive off our whole Zuzu audience. Hey, T-Cat fans, after the year we've all been through, saving money should be at the top of everyone's resolution list.

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To get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month and get the plan shipped to your door for first, go to mintmobile.com slash teacat. That's mintmobile.com slash teacat. Cut your wireless bill to 15 bucks a month at mintmobile.com slash teacat. But you know, here's the thing about Jackson. So he got this car, didn't hurt Mark McLean, but basically just drove it to the west side of Indy and traded the Azuzu for a black escort. It's like he didn't drive. these cars very long. And I don't know, you know, this kept going through my head during the research. Was he so paranoid that he just felt like he had to change cars so quickly?

I think he was. Oh, I agree with you. You know, this escort belonged to 27-year-old Jody Smith. And she was actually standing out front of her house when Jackson walked up to her with his shotgun. Jody was waiting for a tow truck because her car had broken down. The escort was another car owned by the family, so Jackson forced her into that car. Not too long into the trip, they had to stop for gas. But they did the old pump and dash, which prompted the person working at the station to call the police.

And I know Gibbs you remember the old pump and dash. Hey. I'm not saying you did it. I'm saying you remember it. You got to get gas in that tank. You got to do what you got to do. It was actually a pretty big thing when you and I first started driving. It was a pretty big deal still into the late 90s when I was running some gas stations up in Detroit, Michigan. It used to happen all the time.

Yeah, I was just wondering how many times has that happened in all those stations that you ran? Oh, my gosh. You know, more times than you would like to think. Now, of course, they basically solved that problem now by either making you use a card or prepay for your gas. Right. You know, back in the day, there wasn't as many cameras. You know, if you're talking about when you and I started driving in the 80s, cameras were not that big of a thing. No, they weren't. And so a lot of kids are age.

I had some friends that did it. I never did it. And I'll be honest, because I'd tell you if I did. But, you know, of course, gas was like, I don't know, 45 cents a gallon. Wasn't a lot. Whatever it was. But that was a lot of money to us back then. But they would fill up and, you know, look around.

And if the one service station attendant wasn't looking, boom. All they went. They were gone. I wonder how many times you lost your gas hose, too, where people just forgot to unhook and just drove off with it attached. Yeah, I don't remember when it happened. but you know in the 90s by the time i was running these gas stations they had developed the breakaway hose oh okay because in the old days if you forgot you would pull the freaking pump with you oh nice but smartly somebody came up with uh like it's like a cotter pin basically a

connector thing yeah where that part would break and so you'd have like the end of the hose right still with you, but the pump would be fine. Okay. Now, it was pretty expensive to put it to fix it. So if you did that and came back, they'd make you pay for it. So the point there is to just keep driving. And don't come back. Don't come back.

Yeah. From there, Jackson headed with Jody to Frankfurt, Indiana, which is a little less than an hour from Indy. It's north, a little bit west. But it was in Frankfurt where Jody saw her opportunity to escape. So they got to this intersection and as the car slowed down, she jumped out. She survived. She was able to get away.

But the car rolled over her ankle and broke it. But you got to think, Gibbs, about the guts that this woman showed. Oh, she's tough, man. Tough. She has no idea what this guy's plans are. But hell, she's not waiting around to find out. She saw the best opportunity and took advantage of it. Kind of makes the hair on my arms stand up just.

thinking about it. Yeah. Because I do think we all like to think we would do that, but I don't know if all of us would. You know, some people, they get so paralyzed with fear that they're incapable of kind of acting. That what would you do, you know, makes you think. Yeah. But again, I think most people would say, I would do this. I would do what Jody did. It's easy to say that. That's what I'm saying. The question is, would you physically be able to carry it out mentally, physically, would your body let you do it? But I always like the stories of people making that decision and getting away from the bad guy. Now, there's no guarantee that this guy would have hurt her, but there's no guarantee that he wouldn't have. We've already seen he's unpredictable.

He kills some people. He lets other people go. You know, I'm in the camp of you don't take that chance. When you have any opportunity to get away, get away, man. So after Jody got away, he made the decision to change cars again. Now, this decision I get, the person that you had with you, the person whose car you stole, they got away from you. Well, definitely they're going to go to police and they're going to tell them what car you're driving. So I get it.

You got to change cars. So Jackson found a mobile home park on the outskirts of Frankfurt. He forced his way into the home of Deborah Smith, no relation to Jody. They both happened to have the same last name of Smith. He abducted Deborah as well as her two-year-old son and forced them into Deborah's 1982 Mercury. He drove about five miles away from the mobile home park, robbed Deborah of anything she had on her of value and then let both of them go. Thank goodness.

Thank goodness. And amazingly, Deborah was able to flag down some officers who just happened to be out searching for Jody Smith. Because you got to think all of this is happening very quickly. But at this point, Michael Wayne Jackson was headed to Missouri. Now, according to the Indianapolis news, police received a call at 3 p.m. that day with a tip that Jackson was back at his house, hiding in the basement. So detectives went to the home.

They didn't find Jackson, but found what they called, quote, primitive conditions. Scary? Yeah, scary. Probably not too surprising. Right. He said the guy had no plumbing, no electricity. He enjoyed sleeping in his truck bed. Yeah.

But what they found was strange. They found a shit ton of phone books. scattered around the front yard dating back to, I think it was 1978. All right. I don't know why you need all those phone books, but...

You know, I read a strange article a couple weeks ago that the very first phone book didn't even have phone numbers in it, but they called it the phone book. And then I read it in that same article it talked about in, I think the state of New York,

one of the first phone books had all the names and numbers in it, but instead of going like, F for Ferguson, it went by the first name. So if you didn't know how to search for that, you know, you'd have to go through all the A's and B's, but it was in their first names. Yeah, that would be strange. Yeah. So let's go back to this first phone book.

Yeah. If it didn't have phone numbers in it, what was in it? Well, they said this is the name and address, but it was called a phone book. It was like, why would you call it a phone book? What on an address book? That seems very strange. I don't know where you're getting your articles from, but I'll go with it. This news thing called The Onion?

Yeah. No. They also found a skeleton head of a small animal on the front porch. Inside the house, they found each room almost completely filled. What spots didn't have furniture were filled with trash? Hoarder? Yeah. I mean, I think you can think about a really bad episode of hoarders.

There were also different species of animals running around inside the house. And they found a headless Santa Claus doll next to a chair with no legs. It's getting bizarre now. Yeah, I mean, you're getting into some weird twilight zone. You know, that's weird. That's weird stuff. That whole quarter show, it messes with me a little bit when I watch that. See, I can't watch that.

Yeah. Because it gives me the hebe-jeebies. I just can't do it. Because I think about living like that and it makes my skin crawl. It does, man. And I mean, I'm not saying anything bad about those people. Some of those people, you know, they have issues. Sure.

OCD type or whatever it is that's causing them to not be able to live a certain way. I always have the problem with the refrigerator one when they open up the refrigerator and they don't throw anything away. Like they can't throw it away. It's mole. Yeah. Yeah. Now, if you dump a carton of milk out and it's chunky, right.

I'm out. At that point, I'm out. I can't watch. I don't even want to think about. I can't even believe those words just came out of my mouth. Yeah. But no doubt you have to think about these police officers, right, finding this stuff thinking, okay, what kind of guy are we dealing with here? Now, they had no idea that Jackson was on his way to St. Louis. Around 6 p.m. that same night, He showed up in Richmond Heights, Missouri. This was just a little west of St. Louis. And it was there that he pulled a gun on 26-year-old Cynthia Mosley in the parking lot of a mall and robbed her. Things are really moving fast.

And we're going to see that, right? We're still in the same day. And we have a lot to go in this same day. Because 45 minutes later, he's in the neighboring town of O'Fowland, where he shot and killed 47-year-old Earl Finn in his car. Now, there's not a lot of information on this murder because I don't believe there were any witnesses. Basically, police found Finn after he crashed his car into a utility pole on an exit

ramp of I-70. So, you know, I don't know if Jackson was trying to get this guy's car and Earl wouldn't stop for him or if this was some type of. road rage incident, or he just decided he wanted to shoot this guy. He's all over the place with this. Do I shoot or don't I shoot? Then about 15 minutes after this incident, Jackson abandoned Deborah Smith's car in an IGA grocery parking lot in O'Fallon.

He stuck his shotgun in the face of a 40-year-old woman named Cheryl Klein, took her keys, and fled in her car. Probably wet yourself right at that moment if that happened to you. If somebody shoves a shotgun. in your face? Yes. I think I would do more than wet myself. I might need a diaper change. Probably would at that point. But as if, you know, this whole thing was not strange enough. He drove just north of O'Fallon where he encountered 29-year-old Linda Sherer at her home. He took her keys at gunpoint and left in her car. And I guess Linda's husband was there.

He jumped into his car and he started chasing Jackson. But he thought better of it after Michael started firing shots his way. Well, that's one way to get people to stop following you. Yeah, I mean, this guy was probably like, hey, what am I doing? You know, we have insurance. Yeah, I'm a tough guy, but it's not worth losing my life over. Right. Now, if he was protecting his wife, that would be a different story.

A couple of axioms to live by run through my head, right? Number one is from Roadhouse. Be nice. until it's time to not be nice. That's one of your favorite ones. That is one of my favorite ones. Yeah. And then the second,

and I have no idea where this one came from, is you can always replace possessions, right? You can't replace a life. It's just not worth risking my life over my truck or my wife's SUV. But now if you're threatening the safety of my family, then it's on. That's a different story.

Hold another ballpark there. Yeah. Jackson next headed to some apartment. in O'Fallon. This was just after 7.30 p.m. He spotted 26-year-old Rick Darcy out in front of the apartment complex. Rick was washing his car. He abducted Rick at gunpoint, forced him into his car, and took off. Darcy told the St. Louis dispatch that Jackson wouldn't take I-70. He stayed on the back roads, and he was worried about every car they saw. I mean, literally, like if he saw another, car on the back roads.

He would stop. He would pull over. He would change directions. Very paranoid. Very paranoid. And, you know, I think you can make the connection possibly to a diagnosis that we talked about earlier. Sure.

Right. Paranoid schizophrenic. Darcy said he asked Jackson why he was running from police. And Jackson said, because I have killed. and everybody is trying to stop me and somebody had tried to get away. If you try to get away, I'll kill you. Don't look at me and be quiet. But Darcy also told the paper that Jackson offered him cigarettes as they drove.

Basically, every time Jackson smoked one, he offered one to Darcy. He was probably one of those fast chain smokers too, man, like a nervous smoker. Just puffing down on them real hard. Yeah, maybe. I don't know. took away from it was he was a little bit Jekyll and hi right right don't look at me wait a minute do you want a cigarette I'll kill you yeah yeah hey do you want a cigarette and I think Darcy kind of relayed that to the paper as well he thought it was like this guy was you know had two different sides to him

and they were switching back and forth like on a regular basis it's like a two face is that a Batman reference it is I like it since I didn't have any Aquaman references Yeah, well, why would you? He's a minor character. Nobody likes him, except for you. At some point, Jackson stopped the car and forced Darcy into the trunk. He next turned up in Wright City, Missouri at a gas station sometime after 9 p.m. And it was at this gas station that police spotted him and tried to arrest him. A shootout ensued. And Jackson hit one officer in the head, but it wasn't fatal. He sped off, got on to I-70, but lost control of the car and he plowed into a

chain-link fence about two miles west of Wright City. Jackson got out, took off on foot to evade police. And by the time they got there, he was gone. They did free Darcy from the trunk. He suffered only minor injuries in the wreck. Police knew that Jackson was still armed. because they didn't find his shotgun at the scene. It wasn't in the car. It wasn't anywhere around the car. So Gibbs, I think we need to take just a minute to recap this day.

And really, if you think about it, it's kind of hard to believe this is one day. I'm just a exhausted thinking about it. It's really just a little over 13 hours from the first murder just after 8 a.m. back in Indianapolis to the car crash that occurred around 9.30 p.m. or so. A lot of crimes to perpetrate in one day, right, three murders,

multiple abductions in different states. One of the things that jumped out at me, and I've kind of already mentioned it, is Jackson feeling the need to change vehicles so often, sometimes in very rapid succession. I mean, within five, 10 minutes, he would change vehicles, right? he would rob the next person, get their car keys and take off. And I just kept thinking about it. Was this because he had some knowledge that he was spotted or that person was going to, you know, call police? Or could this possibly have been the actions of a paranoid schizophrenic, something for

which he obviously had been diagnosed? I don't think it was. And or a combination of the two because, you know, There is a thought that if you are robbing someone of, of, or carjacking, I guess is what you would call it. Right. Normally I think of carjacking is you're pulling somebody out of their car and taking it, like Grand Theft Auto style. Yeah. A lot of times he was just going up to people.

They weren't in their car. He was getting, robbing them of their keys and taking their car. Well, obviously they know what their car looks like. They probably know the license plate number. calling the police. Not too hard to call the police. And so maybe he thought, well, I can only go so far. Right.

And I got to change. But, you know, five, ten minutes, you're doing a lot of work to stop people, accost people, point your shotgun in their face and get their keys and take off. To not go very far. To not go very far. But then you think about Deborah Smith, when he got her car. He drove all the way to St. Louis. And that's so bizarre because why would he do that?

If he was so worried that they were going to be on the lookout for him, why would he drive that length in one car, but then feel the need to get a new one every five, 10, 20 minutes? It did seem strange. Yes, for sure. So you have a wanted man on the run. Police immediately began searching the woods around where Jackson had crashed the car. They searched that night. they searched the next morning.

They didn't find anything. They certainly didn't find him. They even brought in search dogs. They couldn't locate Jackson. And I think one big thing that they had working against them was the area. So, you know, sure, this was right off of I-70,

but it was basically thousands of acres of farmland, woods. There was a lot of old barns, abandoned buildings. It's going to be tough. search. Yeah, I mean, this was a rural area. And, you know, I kind of think of I-70 runs, you know, very close to where we are as well. I mean, there are some stretches where there's not a lot going on. You know, it's not like you have an exit every three-tenths of a mile. Right. You're going to go

some pretty good spans before you have another exit. And you're going to be in some spots that you would consider pretty rural. Right. And that's exactly what this was, right? The closest town was Wright City a few miles away. Police set up a perimeter around Wright City and they began stopping all cars looking for Jackson. The residents of Wright City, Missouri, they were terrified. Like I said, small rural city, about 1,200 residents located roughly 50 miles west of St. Louis. This was the type of town. Gibbs where a lot of people didn't normally lock their doors. Well, you can bet your ass. They started locking their doors when Michael Jackson rolled into town. Oh, yeah.

There was a story in the St. Louis dispatch of a woman who said she lined her basement window with soda bottles so that she would be alerted if Jackson tried to break into her house. Not a bad way to do it. Not a bad way. It's got a little home alone element to it. it. As long as they're glass bottles and not plastic bottles. Yeah, I'm assuming they were in 1986. I mean, when you read the papers from that time, that area, to me it seemed as though pretty much every resident of Wright City had a loaded gun just waiting for Michael Wayne Jackson. A lot of parents kept their children home from school. It was a very big deal. People were terrified. And rightfully so, you have a killer on the loose.

Oh, got to be nervous, constantly looking out your windows, not leaving your house. And when you do leave your house, you're scanning the area to make sure it's okay. And you know that this is a man who not only is killed. He has no problem killing, but he has no problem abducting people left and right. And with their kid, if they have. And with their child. Right. Days of searching turned into a week. And really, police had no idea if Jackson was still in the area or if he had stolen another vehicle and was long gone states away by that point. The FBI was brought in on the search as well. Now, they believe Jackson was still in the area based on the fact that no crimes had been reported since the 22nd that would lead them to believe he'd stolen a car. Well, that makes sense, right? Somebody would have had to

report their car stolen by now, unless he got lucky and found one that somebody's out of town. It was just in the driveway or something. Yeah, I mean, this was a guy who didn't seem to go looking for cars to break into. His MO was more to just walk up to somebody and say, hey, here's my shotgun. Give me your keys. So how's he going to get another car with, out someone calling the police and saying, hey, a guy just, uh, you know, robbed me. Right. So I agree with you. I think there's a pretty good assessment by the FBI.

The search had been going on for 11 days when the authorities finally caught up with Jackson. And I think that time line, that 11 day time period, it also helps kind of give perspective to why the people in Wright City were so worried, right? It wasn't as though they caught this guy within 12 hours. We're 11 days into this thing. Right. And he's still on the loose. Well, if you think about how he lived and how he didn't have a problem sleeping out in his truck bed, this is a guy that could live out in the fields, out in the woods.

He didn't need a place to actually bed down. Much easier than someone like myself could do. Yeah, you wouldn't last half of a night out in the woods. No, no. No TV, no, no everything. Xbox, no laptop. I'm out. You'd hate the bugs in the air. I'm out. It was on Thursday, October 2nd, around 6 p.m. that three FBI agents and a National Park Service employee were checking some abandoned houses and old barns near Wright City. As they entered one barn, they heard a gun shop. And I think right away, they thought, okay, we found our guy. But they got the heck out of there and called. And call. for backup and basically a whole slew of agents and officers showed up and they surrounded the barn.

Now I'm visualizing, oh, brother, where out thou? You're probably not too far off. Yeah. And a little bit of cool hand Luke too. They surround the barn on that one as well. You can't go any length of time without visualizing cool hand loop. It is my favorite movie. I think you have a cool hand Luke fetish.

It is my favorite movie. But you know, you think about it, they don't really know what's going on. They heard a gunshot. Okay. was he shooting at them? They used a bullhorn to try to get Jackson to surrender. No reply. Then around 8 p.m.

They fired a bunch of tear gas into the barn. No one came out. They waited a few more hours to see what was going on. Finally, just before midnight, some FBI agents and state troopers entered the barn. And basically what they did, you know, it was so dark. They had a helicopter fly overhead. to shine light down to help them see.

Navigate. Yeah, to provide as much light as possible. When they got in, they pretty quickly found Michael Wayne Jackson dead. He had shot himself in the head with his shotgun. And that was the end of that. Once the news broke, you know,

the town of Wright City finally breathed a little again. Newspapers ran tons of stories about, you know, people saying how relieved, they were how they could finally put their guns away school attendance returned to normal and you know kind of life in the town went on but you know in the town that small gibbs something like this which was such a big deal was not easily forgot no it had to be a coffee shop talk for a long time i'm sure the old guys in town who met at the diner were talking about it over breakfast and i'm sure even still today there are

people that bring it up from time to time. Yeah. Yeah, this is somewhat of a strange case for us. You know, actually two weeks in a row, we're not talking about a trial. Right. Because the perpetrator of the crimes took their, their own life. So what does that mean? Well, you don't get some of the details behind why the person did what they did, which you might get at a full-blown trial. You might not. I think you might if they choose to go with a certain defense, right? Not guilty by reason of insanity. Okay. They're going to lay out for you why they did it.

Right. And maybe you're going to gain some insight into what was going on in their mind or at least what they want you to think was going on in their mind. And the big question for me in this case is, why did Michael Wayne Jackson do what he did that? day. Right. He had been paroled. Now, his life wasn't going great. His wife left him. He had a hard time, you know, keeping a job, getting a job. He was living in, you know, really run down place. But why all of a sudden that day? What was the trigger? You have to think it had something to do with the probation officer showing up that morning when he did. Again, I mentioned it. Was it? Was it? Was at the urine test.

Had he been doing drugs and he knew he, you know, he was going to come back dirty and they were going to send him back. And he's a possibility. Yeah. And he's like, I don't ever want to go back. So whatever I got to do to keep from going back, I'll do. Yeah. That's definitely a possibility.

Unfortunately, we'll never know his side of the story because he took his life before he could tell anyone. I do think this was a man who had some pretty severe mental health issues. It's kind of hard to argue against that. Now, I don't know exactly what the system could have or should have done, but it's hard not to think that something more could have been done for him. True. To treat what was going on with him.

Well, the signs were always there. Yeah, the signs were there. He had been diagnosed. Would it have made a difference? I don't know. Could it have hurt? I would say no. You know what?

It could or may have eliminated that marathon event that day. Yeah, you can also make the flip side argument, which is to get that type of help, he would have had to have sought it out. And that's true too. And obviously he didn't. So, you know, when I look at it that way, it's, again, it's hard for me to put all of the blame on the system. Right. His sentence is up. They let him out. What else could they have done? What else should they have done? I think those are good questions. They're good topics to debate. I go back to his mom

writing that letter saying, hey, my son needs help. He needs to be committed. But he's also 40, 41 years old. So unless he voluntarily commits himself and asks for help, what all can be done? And I don't know the answers to that question or to those questions. Yeah, outside of prescribing him some medication, that's not as good as him taking it daily as required. Right. But to be prescribed medication, he, again, he would have had to have sought out the help. So outside of Michael,

Wayne Jackson, I don't know who to put the blame on. You know, this guy obviously committed the crimes, but I don't want to discount his mental health issues either. Doesn't make it right what he did, but I do think he's a guy who was in desperate need of help. Yeah, I just don't know if he knew how much help he needed. He may not have. He may not have. But that's it for the story of Michael Wayne Jackson. It was a story that, you know, when I saw it, it kind of, grabbed my attention. I was looking for a very unknown type of case. I don't think many people have covered this one, which means I don't think many people have heard about him. And to me, it was, it was an interesting one. I just think the police that day were just shocked on how

fast the activity was moving to try to keep up with, where's he headed now? What happened to that person? Who did he take this time? And that's just that non-stop moving, moving, moving. and they knew they had to get a hold of him somehow before he hurt somebody else. Well, and I think the movement from Indiana through Illinois into Missouri, that had a lot to do with it, right? The folks in Indianapolis were searching for him.

They're not going to be searching for him in St. Louis, Missouri. No. But then the authorities in Missouri, you know, once they got wind of everything, they had him. They thought they'd. had him. They thought. But he was on the loose for 11 days, just hiding out. And like you said,

probably had the wherewithal or the temperament, the ability to withstand that type of living off the grid, more so than other people because he had kind of already been doing it. Right. He was used to it. Gibbs, we got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's check them out. Hey, Mike and Gibby. It's Fantasia from Illinois. I know, been a really long time since I've called in, but I hope you're both doing well. I just wanted to say, I realized tonight while I was sitting here listening, how long did I've actually been listening to you guys? And I don't know if I have ever said this to you guys, but I found you on accident while looking for another podcast on YouTube while my app was down. And once I

started listening to you guys, I just, like, couldn't stop. So I guess I started listening to you guys like towards the end of my junior year or the start of my senior year of high school. And yeah, now I have my own place and I'm just living in a small town and working. We just got a cute little dog and we're just a happy little family now. But I just wanted you guys to know that whether you know it or not, you've been there through pretty much every step of my young adult journey. And I just hope that you guys continue to do what you do. And not only is your podcast entertaining, but it's really helpful to raise.

awareness of cases. And I hope you guys just have a wonderful rest of your week and keep your own time ticking. Bye, bye. Love it. Very nice voicemail. Yeah. I do know one thing for sure, Gibbs. As the podcast has gone on, we have started to skew a little younger or draw, not skew, but draw in some younger listeners. And, you know, that's, that's great. It's gratifying to hear. It's, hear somebody say, hey, you got me through some things that were going on in my life or, you know, that always makes you and I feel good. Yeah. And we get that every now then. Yeah. It's, it's very nice. Hi, Mike. Hi, Debbie. My name's Emily. I'm from Utah and I'm a new listener. My friend recommended me because we both love true crime. And I've been listening for a couple

months. I work in a warehouse, and so I just listen to the podcast nonstop all day. And I believe in listening in order. So I'm way behind compared to how many episodes you guys have out. So, but I'm really excited to finish listening to all of the cases that you guys cover. Fun little fact. Two, actually. One, I live in Utah. And so my friend's dad actually went to school with one of Ted Bundy's victim. And he actually was her neighbor. So that's kind of cool. A little connection to serial killer for me. And then also the same friend whose dad knew Ted Bundy victim, her nickname is Gibby. And we've called her Gibby since like elementary school. And so as soon as I started listening, I thought it was so funny. And I told her right away about you, Givie. But anyways, I love the podcast.

Thank you guys so much for all the hard work that you do and all the reaches that you do. And stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Well, you have to let her know she needs to change your name. because there can only be one gibby. Yeah, and I just trademarked it. Trademarked Gibby. I'm always amazed by the connections to this killer or that killer. Yeah. You know, my friend's dad was, you know, Richard Ramirez's barber or, you know, whatever it is.

Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is my second attempt at a voicemail. My name is Natalia. I'm calling from Southern California. And I'm calling because I absolutely love your podcast. You guys are hilarious. You're the best duo and the best crime podcast that I've ever listened to. I commute to the city for work every day, and it's truly the best part of my day.

Driving and throwing on your podcast, it really makes the hours go buy so fast, and I seriously look forward to it. I also have a case recommendation. I don't know if you guys have looked into or heard of Chris Watts, the Colorado Man. There's a Netflix documentary about it. It's called American Murderer Next Door. and it's kind of crazy stuff. It's actually insane, scary and interesting all at the same time. I think you guys would really do an awesome job covering that case

and maybe like getting into the topic of family annihilators and like why they do what they do. It's so crazy. So yeah, I just wanted to recommend that and leave you guys a voicemail and say, I love you guys so much. I'm so grateful that I found your podcast and thanks for all you that you do. Thanks, guys. Keep your own time taken. Well, we appreciate it very much.

Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, definitely aware of the, the Chris Watts case. I watched the Netflix documentary with my family. You know, Chris Watts is one of those Gibbs that a lot of people request. It's also a lot, one of those that a lot of people are hoping we never do. That's true. From the standpoint of, and there are quite a few cases like this, because so many different podcasts have covered them and our audience tends to listen to a lot of podcasts.

Right. You know, there are some that have been, I'll say overdone. Burned out. Burn out. But there are people that say, okay, we want to hear your take on it. Yeah. And I get that too. So Chris Watts is definitely on the list.

I'm sure we'll do that case at some point. I guess the reason why we haven't is exactly what I just said. There are some cases that, you know, I've kind of stayed away from just because I feel like everybody's doing them or everybody's done them. And I'm looking for something a little different and maybe some time to pass before we give our take on that story. The same kind of goes with Samuel Little. And, and, you know, there are some other ones like that. Exactly. Yeah. But we appreciate all the voicemails. Gibbs we had mailbag. Yeah. Colleen sent us some gourmet popcorn. Yeah. That we're excited to try. So we appreciate that.

It looks good. All right, buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking. What was your deal with Aquaman? Aquaman. Yeah, why don't you like Aquaman? It's not that I don't like Aquaman. Yeah.

I find it odd that, you know, out of all the superheroes, your Batman's, your Superman's. Yeah. Not even mentioning all the Marvel characters. Your favorite is Aquaman. It's Aquaman, dude. I don't know anybody's, I don't know anybody whose favorite, whose favorite, whose favorite superhero is Aquaman. He can breathe underneath water for long periods of time.

Yeah, so can I with a scuba set. Ooh, I'm a superhero. I did like the Lone Ranger, too. He's not a superhero. He's pretty cool. Yeah, he's cool. Yeah, you got mask. Okay.

He's the, he had a horse. He did. Named Trigger? No, I don't remember. That was Roy Rogers, one. But he had a horse. I don't know. What is horses?

I like the lone ranger, but Aquaman was my superhero man. And that's what makes you Gibby. It is. It is. I mean, you know, you are so far outside of the box. Yeah. That I think you've forgotten where the box is sometimes. But Wonder Woman's break.

bracelets were cool. Regardless of what you, they're cool. A little bracelets, man, boom, boom. Are you talking about when we were talking about Patreon? Yeah. And you said that you were Wonder Woman. Well, I met because you were like, you were, no, your exact words were I am like Wonder Woman. And I said, yes, you are. Because I can raise the same shorts. You wear the same short shorts. That's because I like things snug and tight, man. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, shit, Gibbs. I forgot to hit the button.