True Crime All The Time - Michelle Yvette Busha

Episode Date: December 9, 2024

In May 1980, a woman’s body was found near Blue Earth, Minnesota. In 2015, the woman was identified as 18-year-old Michelle Yvette Busha, who had been buried in an anonymous grave for nearly 35 years. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murder of Michelle Busha. In 1988, a former Minnesota State Trooper named Robert Leroy Nelson confessed to a litany of crimes. One of these crimes was an unsolved murder that Nelson said he committed in Minnesota while on duty. The details of his confession, as well as his former occupation, shocked people.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 413 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, how are you? Hey, I'm doing okay. How about you? Doing great. Yeah?

We talked about it on Patreon this week, but we both had a really good Thanksgiving holiday. We did. Got to hang out with family. It was nice. Been a good time. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Sean McKinney jump out to our highest level. Hey, Sean.

Caroline Gillespie. Well, thanks, Caroline. Andrea Edwards. Hey, Andrea. Tracy Kinsey. Hey, there's Tracy. Bethany Harnett. Hey, thank you so much, Bethany.

Eminon Tremaine jumped out at our highest level. I like that. Eminon. Naomi Witts. Hey, Naomi. And last but not least, Alexis Rome. Well, thanks, Alexis. Yeah, appreciate the new support.

And then if we go back into the vault, this week, we selected Kristen Mosier. Thanks, Kristen. Yeah, appreciate. the long-term support. We also had a great PayPal donation from Lily Goldfarb. Oh, Lily. Thank you.

So thank you to everyone who helps support the show. We have an episode out right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, where we're talking about 26-year-old Tiffany Witten. She was last seen fleeing a Walmart in Marietta, Georgia after she was apprehended by Lost Prevention Associates. And she has been seen. but you know there have been some suspicious types of activity on her social media accounts and there is a main suspect in this case so people who don't really like unsolved might be

okay with this yeah this i don't want to say it has closure but it's you know more people than not believe that there is a a person of interest who was close to her i'll leave it at that All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am ready. We're doing this one a little differently. I titled the episode Michelle Boucher. In May 1980, a woman's body was found near Blueworth, Minnesota. In 2015, the woman was identified as 18-year-old Michelle Yvette Boucher, who had been buried in an anonymous grave for nearly

35 years. A man confessed to the murder and people were shocked to find out who it was. So we almost always title our episodes with the name of the killer. We do. But because the identity of this person came so much later. And it's pretty shocking who this person was. I wanted to withhold that information for a little bit. Because you can. Yeah, it's our show. We can do whatever we want. On May 30th, 1980, a Jane Doe was found in a drainage ditch along I-90 near Blue Earth, Minnesota. The body was a woman between 20 and 30 years old. Her head was shaped, but she had a small patch of hair on the back of her head about one inch long. No clothing or forms of ID were found.

near her body, the remains were badly decomposed, which made identification difficult. Now, you and I have talked about, you know, bodies being found a lot of times. We've done a lot of episodes. Whether it's a solved case or it's an unsolved case, you would have to say this is a fairly strange set of circumstances. Yeah, it's got me scratching my head. You know, first of all, what's going on with the shaved head? Is this something that, you know, this woman would have done on her own?

Probably not likely. Most women don't shave their head. There are some who do, but by and large, most people don't. And then the fact that she had this small patch of hair on the back of her head, which was said to have been about an inch long. strange. Yeah, I mean, if it was you, I'd understand because you hold on to any hair that you can possibly still have. If I just had one inch on the back and it was just one strand, I wouldn't cut it all. No. Holding on for dear life. Exactly. In August 1980, Faribault County investigators and the Minnesota

Bureau of Criminal Apprehension compared the woman's fingerprints and dental records to cases from several surrounding states, but no identification was made. The woman was buried that same month in an anonymous grave at the Riverside Cemetery in Blue Earth. And then obviously her case went cold for a number of years. And I always think that's extremely sad. Number one, a person lost their life. But to not even be able to figure out who that person is means a lot of different things.

you can't notify their family. Right. And then at a certain point, a decision is made to bury this person in an anonymous grave because what else are you going to do? You have nothing to call her other than Jane Doe or. Yeah. You know, some people are given some type of Jane Doe-ish type moniker, but they don't know her real name.

on January 13th, 1988, Agent Dennis Fear, with the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, received a call from Lieutenant David Turner in Smith County, Texas, in regards to a man in custody in Smith County. The man in question was former Minnesota State Trooper Robert Leroy Nelson,

who was in custody for criminal sexual conduct involving his 11-year-old son. It was like we're headed down a very disturbing path. Yes. Yeah. Nelson turned himself in and was accompanied by his pastor. The pastor told Smith County officials that Nelson made statements to him about being involved in an unsolved murder in Minnesota in 1980. He also admitted to beating and sexually abusing his young son for years.

So I guess it's good that he's went to his. pastor and told him this and then they went to the police, but everything that led up to that moment is shocking and disturbing. Well, and then let's factor in the fact that this guy used to be a Minnesota state trooper. You know that's going to shock people. Sure. Nelson was a Minnesota state trooper from 1970 to 1985, and he was stationed in Farah Bull County,

where the Jane Doe was found in 19. In January 1981, Nelson requested a transfer and moved with his wife and three children to Virgus, Minnesota. He worked out of the patrol office in Detroit Lakes. He later joined a religious group. In 1985, he resigned from the state highway patrol and moved to Texas. You ever join a religious group? I have not. Now, when I hear a religious group, it kind of screams out to me, like outside of the mainstream church. Right.

Now, could be cult, could not be cold. Your mind kind of goes there. My mind does it at least for some reason. I've thought about joining a cult just for the fun of it. Yeah. You know. You make more money as a leader,

but you have more fun as a follower. Exactly. Nelson spoke to investigators from the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Act. apprehension and the county sheriff's office and provided details about the unsolved murder. He claimed he committed the murder while on duty one night, but he didn't know the woman's name. So, I mean, I think we have to kind of take all of this in. You know, we talked about him going into the police station with his pastor. You did he just unload on this pastor all at one time?

or had they been talking through some of this stuff for a period of time? And he's, the pastor's like, I think it's time for us to go visit the police now. And he must have talked Nelson into it, right? I'm thinking when he started talking about abusing his son that's still alive at that time, the pastor thought,

we got to get him into the police, protect that boy. Yeah. No, I'm sure that thought. what was there, but I don't know the ethical constraints around the whole confession type thing. You know, you think about client attorney privilege. Right. There's doctor, patient, confidentiality.

There's a lot of things like that. Do you think clergy? Well, the clergy has something similar. Now, some of those have caveats, which, you know, involve somebody saying they're going to hurt themselves or hurt somebody else or, you know, that's when they're allowed to break that oath or that whatever you want to call it. I don't know if that exists with the clergy or not. And it may depend on domination.

Did you say domination? In what way does that word play in? It doesn't. Oh, okay. No, I meant like, denomination. That's what you meant. You said domination. I did. Yeah, you're right. That's where I was heading. But there's no way that I could have, or I should have, I guess, put the fact that you were trying to say denomination. You just thought the very key piece of that word, the beginning. But how many times have I told you leave your personal life at home?

Yeah. So he's giving investigators details about this unsolved murder. He said the murder occurred on or about May 26, 1980. He was watching traffic when a dark-colored van let a young woman out on I-90 near the Brysland exit. She started hitchhiking and he picked her up. About 45 minutes later, the woman became enraged. Over his sexual advances, he handcuffed her and proceeded to some.

actually assault and torture her before strangling her. He disposed of her body in a drainage ditch. And he admitted to throwing away the woman's clothes, jewelry, and purse. So I know we've touched on this before, but you have a person in power. And you would have to say a police officer, state highway patrol, you know, these are individuals with a lot of power. But here's the other thing that crossed my mind. If you're a young woman who's hitchhiking, right?

And you see a state highway patrol person stop and say, you know, offer to give you a ride. Would you be much more apt to take that ride than you would from another person? I would say yes. I would say yes as well. Because why? We think of these types of individuals. wolves as they're to protect and serve. Yeah, they're safe. They're safe. Obviously, this guy was not safe. I mean, that's why, you know, back in the day, probably even today, you know, when somebody

that has a police light come up behind you, you know, a lot of people will pull over, you know, they're not a, but if it was just a playing car and someone's flashing your light to you, Are you going to pull over? No, you're going to keep on going down the road. But as soon as they put that light on, you're like, oh, well, it's a police officer. You're not going to hurt me. Well, and you're also required by law, right? To pull over.

Yeah. Pull over some more safe or whatever. Yeah. Former lead investigator, Jerry Kate, spoke to Fox 9 about Nelson's confession. He said he had her handcuffed at that time. She's hollering and screaming a lot. He said he had pliers in the car. And he took the plight.

and pulled some of her fingernails out. What the heck, man? This is like mafia collecting the money time? So he sexually assaulted her. He tortured her. And then he strangled her with a cord and left her body in a ravine near I-90, east of Blueard. But after speaking to Nelson, investigators determined his admissions regarding Jane Doe were too nebulous and vague. to justify prosecution.

There's a good word of the day for you. Nebulous. Nebulous. Now, Nelson was charged with criminal sexual conduct in Minnesota involving his son and was brought back to answer those charges. So he's confessed to two different things. One, a murder and the other, you know, abuse, both physical and sexual of his young son. I just found it strange.

that investigators thought what he said was too vague because it sounded pretty specific to me. I did. I thought the same thing too. So I'm guessing they just needed more detail. Well, maybe they just thought, we have no way to corroborate his statement. So can we really move forward with a prosecution? Yes. He's confessing.

but if we can't prove any of the things that he's saying, is it worth moving forward? Maybe that's what they thought. According to case file documents, Nelson made a disturbing handwritten statement on January 7th, 1988. He wrote, I began molesting children when I was about 12 years old. My parents and another couple that were neighbors would go out to party

and I was left in charge of kids. He said one victim was about four years old, and he molested her eight to ten times. He did the same to another girl who was nine. Wow. He also said that he molested his cousin several times when he was 12 or 13, and she was just four or five years old.

Sick. And then at the age of 28, he said he molested his 10-year-old niece eight to 10 times. Wow. This is, I mean, just a lot of admissions of really heinous crimes. Some of these victims young as four years old. You're one sick SOB in my book. Yeah.

And I don't see how anyone can look at that any other way, but to be sickened and outraged. Makes you wonder what made him do those things. Well, he wrote that he'd had the urge to sexually assault children for as long as he could remember. I guess he also exposed himself dozens of times over the years at public rest areas, parks, and occasionally near schools. He also peeped into windows when he was younger. And, you know, we talked about a number of serial killers who have had some of these same traits, right? Peeping Tom, voyeurism, stealing of women's underwear off,

clothes lines. You know, that's in the background of a lot of serial killers, but exposing yourself in a park or a public rest area or near a school. What kind of thrill is someone getting out of that? Well, some type of sick thrill. is what he was getting out of it. Yeah. I mean, maybe it's the, the taboo, the riskiness of it all, someone else seeing. I don't know what it is. Yeah, I don't think there's ever been a time somebody would have exposed themselves

and the other party been, oh, I've been waiting for that, for someone to do that to me. Yeah. Come on over here. Yeah, like it's just, it's just welcomed. Yeah. But maybe that's part of it. of it as well. You know, the perpetrator knows that the, the person seeing it is going to be shocked. And it's almost like you're forcing them to see something they don't want to see.

I don't know. I'm trying to dive into, you know, these people's minds, but as we always say, it's not that easy. No, not at all. But I want to go back to this statement he wrote. He had the urge to sexually assault children for as long as he could remember. He said he started when he was 12 years old. And he just wonder, Gibbs, how does that develop? I mean, sometimes you're a victim yourself at a young age. Boy, and we're going to find out that he was. Yeah, we are.

He wrote that while he was living in Mexico, he became aware of the fact that he had molested his son for many years. He actually used those words. I became aware. But you weren't aware, you became aware. That's a strange choice of words. Yeah. Almost like I didn't know what I was doing until this point.

And then all of a sudden, I realized it. There's always that follow-up question, right? Once you realize what you were doing, did you stop? Well, he also claimed that this brought up memories of when his own father raped him. So, I mean, that's where, you know, you said a lot of times these types of individuals experience, you know, sexual abuse themselves. And he claims that he did at the hands of his father. He said he confessed everything because he recognized that he needed help. And to me, this is, you know, one of the interesting facets of this story. You know, this is not a person who was caught through some type

of advancements in DNA. No. This is a guy who voluntarily made the decision to walk into the police station and confess to a murder and to abusing his son. And thankfully he did. Yeah. Decide to do that. Unfortunately, it came many, many years later.

Nelson wrote, I have done everything that my son has said and probably more. occurring over a continuing period of many years, I wish I knew why. While incarcerated in Faribald County, Minnesota, he gave a detailed confession to the murder. He spoke to investigators over the phone on April 15th, 1988, and said that his memories were becoming more clear to him. He thought the victim's name was Caroline Marie Jacobson, but said these were just impression. The victim got out of a dark van and was arguing with the people inside. He picked her up and they got off the freeway at the Blue Earth exit.

He drove onto a gravel road where they had a conversation. They went to a field and he had the impression of him standing behind the victim with a court around her neck. But that was all he could remember at that time. He potentially remembered handcuffing the victim, but not removing her clothing. And he kept using this word impression, which I thought was a strange word. Yeah. Strange way of saying, recalling his memories.

That he's not sure or he believes this is how it happened. On October 21st, 1988, Nelson was convicted of sexual assault in Texas and sentenced to life in prison. He was also charged with first-degree manslaughter in 19. 1988, according to CBS. On July 17th, 1989, Nelson did an interview with county deputy sheriff Jerry Kate. According to case documents, he said, okay, the incident occurred. I believe it was a Sunday night.

May 24th of 80 was the night that I had an accident with Frankie Drake. I took the following day off, which was a Saturday, and I worked a Sunday night. the Sunday and Monday that I worked before I took off on vacation. I didn't do very much. I just drove around here and there and parked along the side of the road and spent some time at the sheriff's office, basically just kind of put in some time, didn't do very much patrol.

Sunday night it was out east of Bluard and parked up on the north side of the Brysland Exchange on I-90. I was parked off the freeway on the road that goes off. to the north and I was maybe a block away from the freeway interchange where I could kind of watch traffic but I wasn't you wouldn't notice the police car there so all right we already know this guy did some horrible things right he's also kind of outing himself as a terrible police officers as well you know I just kind of putting in my time I'm I'm just riding here and there but I'm not really doing much. Not going to really patrol a lot, you know. He went on to say, anyway, it's probably about

9.30 at night. It's completely dark and it's before, you know, like the 11 o'clock coffee break time. So that's about 9.30. That's what I'm thinking. And I saw a van. I remember it to be dark colored. I think it was blue and it would have been in the middle 70s. Ford van, drove up, stopped at the stop sign and sat there for a little while. And it sat there for a few seconds and the side door opened and a gal got out. I believe there were two other people in the front of the van. Anyway, the door shut on the van and the thing went back down on the freeway and back westbound on 90. The gal is standing there and she crosses the ramp and starts down the ramp.

I started the car up. This is maybe three or four minutes later and drove up to where she was walking down the freeway. I stopped sort of alongside of her and got out. She was up by the front fender, front corner, and I asked her for some identification. And she produced some kind of identification. I just remember it being a plastic identification card. Now, the name that I had given you before, I believe is correct. Just about dead positive on the first name.

That's probably the only name I would have remembered. The woman's name was either Catherine or Kathleen. The middle name was Marie and the last name was Jurgensen or Jorgensen. So on the one hand, Gibbs, he's giving some very detailed information. He is. But on the other hand, he's also very sure about the name. Or there's a couple of possibilities of names, but he's pretty positive. it's it's one of two first names or last names.

Because it's a little bit different than the name that they originally had. Yeah, you're right. It's close, but it's different. He recalled that the woman didn't have a noticeable accent, but she could have been from the Midwest or the East. And you and I talk about accents a lot. I've got a lot of them. You do.

Most of them sound very, very similar. but you know we do talk about people being from different parts of the country having different accents a lot of times you know when you're traveling you can tell where somebody's from or if somebody's traveling through ohio here and you hear them talk okay they're from new york they're from boston they're from minnesota see right there see like when you go to minnesota you know if you're there long enough you start talking like you're from minnesota done. Well, but let's flip it around. If you're in Minnesota, if you live in Minnesota, yeah, a lot of other people's accents are going to sound strange to you. They're going to be very

noticeable. Yeah, I agree with you. Some people have said that we sound like we have Southern. They do. Accents. Until you're down in the South and they don't think we sound like we're from there at all. No. Though if we want to, we can talk pretty, you know, slow it down and, draw things out a little bit like, you know, some good butter. That didn't sound Southern at all. That sounded more Forrest Gump than it did anything. Forrest Gump's more southern than anything. Well, that is true.

Mama said. Nelson said he asked her to get in his car and she complied. He didn't write her name down and didn't call dispatch to report what he was doing. normally he would call in a hitchhiker to see if that person was wanted. He explained, I don't know if I just never got to it or if I just didn't do it because of what I thought might happen later. I don't know. Seems to me more likely to be the latter of those two things.

I think so. He saw, you know, what he thought was a pretty 18 year old girl. And I think he knew he was going to do something. something and therefore it would not be in his best interest to call it in yeah he didn't want to document that he put this girl in his car yeah and i'm just not buying the oh you know maybe i just forgot i think he had a a plan yeah and that plan involved specifically not calling it in they were in his patrol car headed west on i 90 he asked the woman what happened she said she was heading west to visit some friends. She was riding in the van with people she had known anywhere from a few days to a week.

They got into an argument because she was asked to cooperate with them sexually, but she refused and was kicked out of the van. Okay. It's kind of rough. It is kind of rough. You need to cooperate with us sexually. You either go along with our sexual plan here or you're walking. And she said, okay, open the door because I'm not, uh, not into that. I'm not into it. Nelson continued in the interview. As we talked, she, uh, the way that she talked was sort of leading. And by that I mean that she was kind of flirting sexually.

And of course, I was returning that probably. Okay. Let's break this down. First of all, was she flirting sexually? Was she? trying to, you know, kind of putting something out there in the air, or was that all in his mind? Yeah, I think his perception was warped. And then he says, and of course, I was returning that, probably.

Okay, buddy. He said he continued driving and ended up eight or nine miles east of Blue Earth down a gravel road. He was looking for a quiet, secluded place because their conversation, led him to believe she would cooperate with his sexual advances. He said she was talking as to lead me on. And I was eating it up and wanted to take advantage of the situation. So she literally just got out of a van and gave up a ride to start walking because she didn't want to cooperate with, you know, someone's sexual advances.

but she's going to cooperate with yours. And even if she was, let's say flirting, Gibbs, this is a state trooper who is on duty. I mean, let's not forget that part of it. Yeah, he should be shutting that down. Right. He's saying I wanted to take advantage of the situation. You're not at a bar meeting people.

You're doing a job for which you're getting paid for. that job should not involve trying to have sex with people you pick up in your official capacity. Yeah, definitely should not. He said he turned into a field about 100 yards north of the freeway alongside a drainage ditch. He got out and went to the passenger side. He opened the door and the young woman got out. Now, the following details come from his confession. He said, I began to make advances towards her, and she sort of cooperated.

But I got the feeling that she wasn't really going to do what she had kind of hinted or led me to believe. I had her take the jacket off and I was kind of messing with the T-shirt. I won't say that she panicked, but she realized that, you know, she, I realized and she realized, I guess, that she either changed her mind or didn't meet it in the first place or whatever. And at that point, I sort of forced her to take off the T-shirt. And that's when she began to indicate that she wasn't going to go through with any sexual advances. Okay.

So that's just part of it. But I want to kind of talk about that first part. I feel like, you know, he might be telling the truth here. but it almost seems that he's he could be massaging it as well. Yeah, I feel like he is. And I also feel like it's a abuse of power right here. There are no doubt it's an abuse of power, but I almost feel like he's softening it.

She was saying things that led me to believe that we were going to have a sexual encounter. And then at some point, she must have changed her mind. And it was at that point that I forced her to take off her t-shirts. Okay. He continued by saying at that point and at that time, I handcuffed her with her hands behind her back and caused her to perform oral sex on me. And by this time, she's very upset. And what she's talking about is getting back at me, getting me fired, getting me put in jail,

all kinds of things. Rightfully so, but I don't like to use it as an excuse. But the anger and the frustration and a whole lot of stuff that was very deep inside of me that I didn't even know was there and coming out in my assault of this lady and in the things I did next. She was screaming and carrying on that she was going to see me fired and in jail and in prison and all kinds of things.

Well, you're abusing her right now. Yeah. She's pissed. He does say rightfully so. She's upset. Yeah, no shit. She's handcuffed and forced to perform oral sex on a state highway patrol officer.

He said instead of just kind of a sexual interlude that maybe would have been forgotten and passed off if I hadn't forced her to do anything, now I was looking at some serious problems. But now I had not only done something that was wrong as far as the policy and everything else and wrong in the eyes of law enforcement. Now I had actually done something and caused her to perform a sexual act on me that she was not cooperating with. So weird how he describes that. Yeah. I mean, I think I understand what he's saying.

You know, not only had I, you know, broken every policy that existed as far as it pertains to my job, but he knew he was, what he was doing was criminal. He was a police officer after all. Obviously, he's going to know that restraining. someone who's innocent, right, against their will, and forcing them to engage in a sexual act that they don't want to do, that's a crime. He said he knew he was in over his head.

He realized the woman was right. He was going to go to prison if anyone found out what he did. He said, and to try to shut her up, to try to scare her into somehow believing that she should be afraid of me and so on. I found pliers. Nelson was in another vehicle because of his earlier car accident, but he found the pliers in a toolbox. He threatened to pull the woman's fingernails off if she wouldn't stop shouting. According to Nelson, and that only led to more abuse in screaming and carrying on. And like I said, something inside me, you hear it all the time.

The phrase, something inside me snapped. But all the frustration and, all the anger, plus all that I had done in the last few minutes that she was right about. What I did was yanked out, I believe, two or three fingernails to show her I meant business. And I realized that it had gone so far so fast, you know, in a few minutes time. So I do think maybe he's being pretty honest about what he's done. He is. Now, he might be sugar coating it some. might be massaging it, like I said earlier, but he's admitting to doing horrible things.

And I guarantee you that hurts like hell. It can't feel good. I mean, there is a reason why that has been a torture method for hundreds and hundreds of years because it must hurt like hell and it probably works. Let's try it out. But is it going to work in a situation where, you don't want someone to tell on you for what you've done. And that's where I feel like it was a little misguided. Now, if you're a CIA operative, which you may or may not be, I know you're not at

liberty to confirm, never, but you also don't deny, that might be a tactic you would use, right, to extract information out of someone. Because, if they give you the information, you'll stop hurting them. But that's not the scenario we're talking about here. It's not. It's almost like he's saying, I don't want you to get me in trouble for what I've already done. So I'm going to pull some of your fingernails out.

And that's going to what? Keep you from going to the police later on? If anything, you're just adding ammunition for why this person would want. want to go to the police. Yeah, I think so. And I thought it was interesting that he said, I realized it had gone so far so fast in a few minutes time. Escalated quickly. But who was behind the escalation? Him. Yeah, I mean, she did nothing to escalate this situation. He said he snapped off the drawstring in the bottom of the woman's jacket, tied it around her neck, and strangled her. She couldn't put up much of a fight because she was handcuffed and kneeling on the ground.

He stood behind her, nodded the rope, and strangled her from behind. He said, and I remember the anger and the emotion and all that, like built up and almost out of nowhere in just a minute or two. It was crazy. And I remember strangling her and the hatred. And I hated myself. I hated her. I hated everything at that moment. You know, one of the things that I found very interesting about this case was, you do have so much from Nelson. Some of it, I'm sure, is very truthful. Some of it is embellished or, you know, skewed maybe in his favor a little bit.

But you got a lot of information here from not only what he did, but how he was feeling as he was doing. He's doing a pretty good job of pulling you into his story. He said he removed the rest of the woman's clothing and rolled her body into a drainage ditch. He put her clothes in purse in his vehicle and later took the clothes to a landfill. He believed the woman was wearing a wig because he didn't remember her having a shaved head. He believed he threw the wig out with the rest of the evidence. Now, we talk a lot about killers. not maybe knowing exactly what to do after they have committed some type of murder.

Well, you know who would have a pretty good idea of how to get rid of evidence? Someone in law enforcement. State trooper? Yeah. More than the average person, right? I mean, they know kind of how law enforcement works. They know what they're going to be looking for. On August 25th, 1989, Robert Leroy,

Nelson pleaded guilty to first degree manslaughter. He also pleaded guilty to first degree criminal sexual conduct involving a family member from 1977 to 1981 when he was living in Minnesota. He was sentenced to a total of 16 years to run concurrently with his life sentence in Texas. So he just got 16 years for that stuff? Yeah, it's kind of hard to believe, but the first degree manslaughter. slaughter is kind of hard to believe too. Yeah.

If this went down, even the way he said it did, that seems to be a cold-blooded murder. So why such a light charge? Yeah. I know it's not light, but compared to what he's done. Oh, I think it is light. Yeah. I think you're right. Faribald County attorney Arvid Winland said at the time of sentencing is quoted by the

St. Cloud Times. He told us he didn't know the woman, except from what he could recall at looking at her. At the time of the incident, Nelson hasn't come up with anything new that's going to help. Nelson's request for parole was denied in January 2015 due to the violent nature of his crimes. So this is a little strange, Gibbs, when you think about it, because the case was solved. But investigators still didn't know the identity. of the woman buried in bluer. This has what he thinks could be her name.

And he's given a couple of different ones. Retired police officer, Deb Anderson, was primarily responsible for getting the police to exhum the body and perform DNA testing. Anderson learned about the case in 2001. From a friend in law enforcement, she decided she wanted to help identify the woman. And she began advocating for exhumation

in 2003. Anderson told the Star Tribune in 2014. She doesn't have an advocate. She doesn't have anybody. And it's a pretty true statement. You know, how can you have someone when nobody knows who you are? Right. There's no family member going to come in and help out because they don't know if she needs

to help. They don't know. Anderson couldn't find much information online. And she felt that the county. Sheriff didn't offer much information in response to her inquiries, she set up a website to publish the details of the case and included dozens of missing persons cases that could be the Jane Doe. She persuaded one company to send thousands of mass emails about the case. She also found an artist to create a sketch of the Jane Doe based on her skull x-rays from her autopsy records. And we

we've talked about, you know, sketch artists before. Some of the stuff that they do, to me, is fascinating. When you think about, you know, taking a skull and you've seen before where they do like clay modeling. Yeah. To fit the contour of the skull and try to figure out what the person might have looked like. Here we have a person who is drawing a sketch solely based on X-rays. of a skull. That's amazing. Amazing. If they're even close to what this person look like in real life. According to Reveal News, Anderson's campaign sometimes put her at odds with local officials

whom she accused of dragging their feet. But it was said that the biggest obstacle was funding. Exumation and DNA analysis was estimated to cost $10,000. With Deb Anderson's help, it would only cost a thousand. A funeral home and local construction firms donated their services for the exhumation and several technology firms volunteered to do the DNA analysis for free. And this is a problem. We've discussed it many times. There are pieces of evidence all throughout this country, sitting on shelves, sitting in evidence rooms that if tested, could potentially lead to a DNA sample, which could possibly lead to the solving of a case.

But you got to have money to get all that stuff done. Because you need people to process it. Yeah. And what I think Deb was doing was kind of amazing. She was taking as many obstacles away as she could. You know, she went out, got some of these people to donate their services. Okay, taking the reasons for not being able to do it away one by one. The goal of the exhumation was to collect DNA samples and perform a facial reconstruction.

Mike Gormley took over the Faribault County Sheriff's Office in 2007. He met with Deb Anderson to discuss the case. In 2008, he told the Faribault County Register. He was not sure we would gain anything from an exhumation. On August 12, 2014, the Blue Earth Jane Doe was finally exhumed for DNA sampling. As part of the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehensions, Unidentified Human Remains Program, the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. created a new sketch based on x-rays and a skull scan.

The Smithsonian conducted an isotope analysis on a bone and a tooth, a complete mitochondrial DNA profile, and a partial nuclear DNA profile were uploaded to national databases. Getting busy now, right? They're doing the things that need to be done. Well, yeah, they're doing the things that could potentially identify, this young woman. If they don't do anything,

if they don't exume her body and at least attempt to get a DNA profile, is anything ever going to change? And I would say, the answer is probably no. The odds are slim. Yeah, could somebody just walk into

the police station and say, yeah, I know who this person is? Sure. Could happen. Call in a tip, but is it likely? Hmm. I would say no.

In mid-February, 2015, the DNA was uploaded to Cotas and pinged a match to Donald Boucher and Marla Torgerson, two parents of a missing woman who submitted their DNA to Cotis in March 2007. You know, I kind of think this is a step that a lot of parents would take in the aftermath of their loved one going missing. Yeah, I think so as well. most people want to take every avenue available to them. You know, if you think about the parents of a missing child, if you said to them, you know,

here's something that could ultimately lead to the identity of your child, would you not do that? Especially if it's as simple as uploading your DNA to a database. Yeah, by what do you do it? I mean, let's face it, it had already been 27 years. On March 5th, 2015, the Minnesota Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, contacted the Madagorda County Sheriff's Office in Texas. They were informed that the unidentified female's DNA was a strong match to Michelle Yvetteette Bouchet, a missing woman in their

county. Michelle's remains were positively identified on March 13th, 2015. Michelle Boucher was originally from Bay City, Texas. She was born on September 2nd, 1961, and she was just 18 years old when she was murdered. Don Boucher told USA today that Michelle was his first child. She was a rebellious teenager and she ran away from home in 1978. Don also told K-H-O-U-T-V. She wanted to be a rebellious teenager. She wanted to be a rebellious teenager. She was a rebellious teenager. She was a rebellious teenager. And she ran away from home, she ran away. Don also told K-H-O-U-T-V. She wanted her freedom. She left.

That's the last time I saw her. I felt like a lot of kids ran away back then. I don't know if that's true. I don't know if that's true either. Yeah. But we can always go with your feelings. I just feel like that. I would say maybe more did back then than today.

I don't know. Did you ever want to run away? No. No? Mm-mm. Oh. I couldn't wait to go to college. Yeah.

But I never wanted to run away. And what was I going to do? Hop freight cars and carry my hobo bendel and eat beans out of a can. Beans out of a can. I know you do that, but it's just because you're cheap. I have seen you throw cans on the ground to dent them just to get like 10% off. Yeah. I eat them that night.

But don't you think it's suspicious that every can? and your shopping card is dented. That's their problem. Probably time to get a new stock person. CBS reported that Michelle's family reported her missing on May 9th, 1980. According to the case file, Michelle was last seen by her family in December 1979, heading to Louisiana. From January to May 1980, Michelle made collect phone calls from Indiana and

Mississippi and charged them to her father's phone. But her family had not had contact with her since May 1980. So, you know, she left home. She wanted to be on her own, but she did call back home. She did stay in contact. Yeah, check in. Give some updates. Now, she did so collect, but I'm assuming she didn't have a lot of money.

She was fairly young and trying to make it on her own. I mean, who's going to say no to a collect call? Oh, maybe you. From my kids? I would never say no. No, from me. I don't even accept free calls from you. I'm sure as hell not going to pay for one.

Gibby who? I don't know any Gibby. Michelle's sister Marla Bouchet was also a teenager when Michelle left. She described her sister as a free spirit who left home to go on an adventure. Michelle planned to visit relatives occasionally, including their grandmother. So, I mean, it doesn't sound like she was mad and she just ran away, right? She wanted to leave home. She wanted to be free.

Explore the world. But she was still contacting family. It wasn't like she had disowned everyone and wasn't talking to them. But this is when she encountered Robert Leroy Nelson, while hitchhiking in Minnesota and was sexually assaulted and murdered. On February 17, 1984, Madagorda County received a call from the New York State Police in regards to an unidentified female body that matched Michelle's description.

They obtained Michelle's dental records, but the NYSP advised Madagorda County that there was no match. On May 15, 1984, the FBI contacted Madagwara County in regards to one of their missing persons cases. An unidentified woman was found in Frederick, Maryland, on August 4, 1982. The FBI sent dental records to Texas and a local dentist compared the charts to Michelle's records, but they were not a match. So there was a lot going on back in Texas. You know, they were, law enforcement was aware that she was missing. I'm assuming, you know, we talked about her family.

They hadn't talked to her after a certain part in 1980. But it seems like efforts being made. Yeah, I think they listed her. And so there were other jurisdictions who had unidentified female victims who thought maybe they could, be a match to Michelle. But as we always talk about Gibbs, how heartbreaking would that be for the family? You know something's wrong because like we said, she set out on an adventure. She didn't want to be at home anymore, but she was calling. It seemed somewhat regularly. She was contacting people when all of that stops and you have no way to get in touch with her. Right? There's no

cell phones in 1980, she's not calling. That's going to be a very worrisome scenario. And at a certain point, you know, obviously they must have gone to the local authorities and said, hey, we think our daughter is missing. Yeah. And then I would think every time, you know, one of these other agencies inquires or there's a possible match, that would be tough for the family. You know, you don't want it to be her, but at the same time, if she's no longer alive, you'd like to bring her home, you'd like for her to be identified. Sometimes I think it's really hard to comprehend what these families go through. Yeah, unless you've been there, and let's face it, nobody wants to be in that position. But unless you've been there, it's tough to know exactly how hard it would really be.

as the years passed, Don Boucher kept his address and phone number the same, hoping Michelle would find her way home. And that has come up, you know, time after time. And it's something that I just could not see changing either. I wouldn't want to move. I wouldn't want to change a single bit of my contact information. Now, we've heard in other stories where people move. because they couldn't stand to be, you know, walking around that same house.

You know, every room was a different memory, just kind of smacking them right in the face. So you can, you can see it from both sides. I think I would be probably more in the camp of what Don did, which is, you know, as long as there was hope that she could come back, I ain't leaving. Yeah, you're going to like, hold on to that hope. Michelle's remains were taken to Bay City, Texas. In April 2015, her brother and sister came to Blue Earth to pick up her ashes and bring them home. Marla Boucher told the Faribault County Register,

this town is incredible. It has been a huge comfort to us, my family, and my father, that the people of Blue Earth cared so much for Michelle. And it is kind of amazing. You know, when you hear about these types of things, stories, Minnesota and Texas are not very close to each other. They are not. But it doesn't change the fact that, you know, a lot of times wherever you are,

when there's a missing person who is unidentified, the town really comes out and does whatever they can do. Because I think they know what that would mean for a family. It's kind of like what we talk about when a child goes missing. Right. A lot of people are parents. So in your mind, you know or have a good idea or can at least imagine what it would be like for those parents. And you would do anything you can to help out. Yeah. You want to participate and do the right thing. So as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, as of this year, Robert Leroy Nelson is 78 years old and still incarcerated.

Texas. Maybe he'll call the hotline. We can have a little phone interview with him. It would be interesting to talk to a person like that. Yeah. You know, I found a lot of his statements to be fascinating. Now, he's a POS for the record books. Don't

get me wrong. Of course. But in studying his words, you know, I think it does give you some insight into, you know, what this guy was going through at the time, what he was thinking at the time. Now, what he did still doesn't make sense, but, you know, I get the picture of Nelson, of a guy who was just kind of going through the motions. He even said it. Like, I was just putting in time. I wasn't really working. Just driving around. Now, was he driving around looking for a victim?

or was this kind of a perfect storm scenario where he happened to see Michelle get out of a van. She starts walking down, you know, the ramp of the highway and he goes to pick her up. Now, was that because he had bad intentions from the get-go? or was he being a police officer up until a certain point? Those are the kind of things that, you know, I like to try to figure out, but he's the only one who really knows that. Yeah.

I mean, he got manslaughter. So if it was pre-plan, he would have got, well, I don't want to say he wouldn't have got manslaughter. I mean, they still can bargain. I don't think it was premeditated in the fact that he

set out to kill her. No. Or a woman, really, he said, if you believe him, when the sexual assault didn't go the way that he thought it would and she didn't care for it, that's when she started threatening him with taking all these different steps of action, right? Going to get you fire, going to call the police, you know, and do this and do that. Well, at that point, it becomes self-preservation in his mind. Right. I have no choice. I have to kill this woman because she's going to ruin my life. Yeah, and I can't have that. I can't ruin her life. I just can't have a ruin of mine.

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's exactly what he thought. I don't think this guy's getting out of prison. I think he's going to die in prison. And I'm totally fine with that for, you know, what he's done. Yeah. He's right where he needs to be. Yep. But that's it for our episode on Michelle Boucher and Robert. Lee Roy Nelson. We got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Yes, hear them. Hi, Mike and Gibby.

This is Zach from Missouri. I just was listening to the latest episode. And you guys had gotten off on a tangent about off brand and no brand and mentioned something about fucking stuff off of a fell off the trailer. I reminded me that I saw a recent story of a frozen pizza truck that had. overturned and filled all of the frozen pizzas, all the tombstone frozen pizzas all over the interstate. And it just reminded me that when I saw that, I could picture Gibby scurrying all through the lanes of traffic, picking up as many tombstone pieces as he could get his hands on. But just wanted to

share that story with because I thought it was funny, a funny image of that when you mentioned the off brand and no brand and things off the truck. But I appreciate what you guys do. Just really enjoy the show and team PCAT for me and keep that on a swivel drill time ticking all right love the voicemail yeah i think he's painting a real vivid picture and uh it just goes to show you how well the fans get to know you free pizza free pizza yeah i can see you like playing a a real life version of frogger in between cars uh on the highway to get your hands on these tombstone pizza. I would just be a good citizen trying to clean up the streets so nobody gets hurt. Oh, it's more about littering. Yeah. Or somebody skidding on one of these frozen pizzas. Exactly. It's all about safety.

Yeah. But you're still going to take them home. Oh, you got to do something with them. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Brittany from San Diego. This is my first time calling. I have been listening since 2018. You guys were my first podcast. And also, um, You guys are with me during my massage sessions because I'm a massage therapist. So it's kind of funny to me that I'm listening to you guys talk about some heinous stuff during my sessions, in my earbud, of course. But you guys have gotten me through many, many, many boring sessions. But I had to call today because I'm listening to the new episode, the Eddie Radcliffe one. And when Mike said tripping balls, I laugh.

I mean, I laugh so hard. You guys make me laugh at that one. I won't forget for a while. That was hilarious. Maybe next time say like high is a kite or something. But anyways, love you guys. I'll keep listening during work and keep your own time taking. Bye.

All right. Love it. We were just talking Gibbs that my lower back was hurting. I could use a massage. You could. You always wonder about like a massage therapist. When you're doing that all day long, how strong do your hands get?

Because, you know, when I give my wife a massage, five minutes in, my hands are starting to cramp up a little bit. So, you know, some of these sessions are 60 minutes, 90 minutes. You know, if you're dating a massage therapist, I'm guessing he or she does not want to rub your back when they get home. They're probably like, that's the last thing I want to do.

No, yeah. Another massage. I get you. I'm just saying, can they, you know, can they crush things that other people can?

Do their hands get like super strong? I'm not talking super human like Superman or anything. No, I was going to say, yeah, I think they probably got some, uh, hand strength,

right? Some good fitness in those hands. Okay. Yeah. Tripping balls. That one's more descriptive than high as a kite. It is. And,

unless you. used. She is San Diego in? Yeah. San Diego. You stay classy, San Diego. All right, buddy. We had one thing in the mailbag.

It came from Colorado. Yeah. Some amazing chocolate, toffee. The person didn't leave their name. I have a good idea of who it is, but I don't want to say it in case I'm wrong. But whoever sent it knows who they are.

Okay. So we appreciate it very much. Thank you. But that's it, buddy. For another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gabey, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.