True Crime All The Time - Nancy Brophy

Episode Date: June 30, 2025

Nancy Brophy is a former author who wrote romantic suspense novels. She once wrote an essay on how to get away with murder. When her husband was found murdered, Nancy quickly became the prime suspect.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Nancy Brophy. Prosecutors believed she spent months plotting the murder to cash in on more than a million dollars of life insurance money. They also think she used a crime thriller-like twist to try to get away with the perfect murder. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 441 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? Hey, I'm doing good about you. I'm doing great. That's good. By the time this comes out, I will have had another birthday. You will be an older man.

An older man that I am sitting right here right now. That's true. But? Very factual. Very factual. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Shannon. Hey, Shannon.

Cade Scholl. What's going on, Schult? Kyle Hughes jumped out to our highest level. Hey, thanks, Hughes. Ginny Quintero. Quintero. Fallon Pitt.

What up, Pitt. Bobby Valentine. Hey, Valentine. They're Attackett. Hey, Tack it. Kevin Devinzo. Which is just fun to say. Yeah.

Spike Adelica. What's going on, Adelica? And last but not least, Joseph Hayes. And then we go back into the wall. This week, we selected Amelia Thompson. What's up, Thompson? Yeah, appreciate all the support. So we have a lot of episodes out right now.

On Saturday night, we dropped a new Patreon episode, which is on Alexander Jackson, a former Eagle Scout, squeaky clean, no criminal record who was convicted of kind of massacring his family. Yeah. And there's a lot of evidence against him, but the defense argued, but there was no mode. So, you know, we go through all the details. And then we have.

a new one out on true crime of the time unsolved. We're talking about Kate Brown and Carnell Sledge. They were close friends who were murdered in broad daylight while sitting together on a park bench. That was about six years ago and the killer still has not been caught. Fascinating. Yeah. So check all of that out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am. We're talking about Nancy Brofey. Nancy Brofey is a former author who wrote Romantic suspense novels, she once wrote an essay on how to get away with murder. Years later, Nancy was arrested for murdering her husband. Prosecutors believe she spent months plotting the murder to cash in on more than a million

dollars of life insurance money. Probably not helpful that you wrote something back in the day. About how to get away with murder? Yeah. She wouldn't be the first person to have done that and then kind of carried it out. sometimes it happens in a very similar way to the writing, which makes it even worse. Nancy Crampton later Brofe was born in Wichita Falls, Texas. In 1950, she was the third child of Roger and Barbara Crampton, who were attorneys.

Nancy studied economics at the University of Houston. She was concerned with overpopulation, and it's a fact on the environment. At the University of Houston, Nancy founded the population awareness. committee and passed out condoms on campus. Nancy pushed administrators to provide birth control at the student clinic. And the dean of students credited Nancy with convincing the administration to hire the university's first gynecologists. I know you passed out a lot of condoms on campus when you were in college. I don't know what the reason for that was. I just wanted everybody to be safe. I thought maybe you figured out you were never going to use all of them and you thought,

why have this big surplus? I'll, you know, just give them out to people. Why don't I go to Costco CM's club to buy this crate of condoms? I'll just give them away. Nancy's first published work was a reproductive health care pamphlet. She published for the University of Houston titled Between Your Naval and Your Knees. It was originally a capstone project for her sociology class, but her pamphlet received widespread attention. Nancy spoke to local reporters and Woman's Day magazine about her project. The university paid to print her pamphlet and 8,000 copies sold in three weeks. Kind of a strange first foray into writing. It is. After graduation, Nancy worked in real estate before moving back to Wichita Falls. She was briefly married to a police officer there. Nancy lived in

Denver before moving to Portland, Oregon in 1991. She enrolled in culinary school and met her future husband Dan Brophy. I love culinary school. Yeah, I know you've said it many times to me. I don't know that you've talked about it on the podcast. But you know, you had all all of this really extensive academic life. And then you kind of went into more of the eclectic, arty, artsy type. stuff like like culinary school yeah but also enhance my knife skills i'm sure you had one of the better collections in the class nancy and dan ran a catering company for years before she decided to focus on fiction writing which had always been her passion she sold life insurance on the side so i mean the one thing about nancy you'd have to say is you know she was a busy person not afraid of work no

she had a lot of different interests and she tried out different things. In 2003, Nancy joined her local chapter of romance writers of America and began publishing novellas and romantic suspense novels. Her author profile stated, her stories are about pretty men and strong women, about families that don't always work and about the joy of finding love and the difficulty of making it stay. You want to talk about a fun club?

and that was a fun club back on the day. I don't know if they're still out there, but man, that romance writers of America, they could have some fun. Well, it's interesting how you got involved. I mean,

I know you weren't writing, but you were posing for a lot of the covers. Tried. You and Fabio were kind of, it was like a Zoolander situation. You were competing heavily. A few pose off. Pose off.

Or pose offs. or I don't know how you'd say that. Dan Brofey's culinary career span four decades. He started off washing dishes and later became a chef. Starting in 2006, Dan was an instructor

and lead chef at the now closed Oregon Culinary Institute in Portland. It was said that Dan could be a stern teacher, but he cared about his students. He often brought a wagon full of homemade jams and herbs

for them to try and he enjoyed taking them on field trips to see where, their food came from. And you know, some people don't want to know where their food comes from. That's true. Just let me eat it. Dan also had a degree in marine biology, was a beekeeper, gardener, and knew how to forage for edible mushrooms. Impressive. Well, maybe that's why these two got along so well. They were into a lot of different things. Some of it together. Nancy continued focusing on her writing career while Dan worked at the

OCI. In 2011, Nancy wrote an essay titled How to Murder Your Husband for the website C. Jane published. She started her essay by writing, as a romantic suspense writer, I spend a lot of time thinking about murder. After all, if the murder is supposed to set me free, I certainly don't want to spend any time in jail. And let me say clearly for the record, I don't like jumpsuits and orange isn't my color. So maybe this is a little, what's the word I'm looking for? I never know. Foreshadowing?

Yeah, let's go with that. Okay. I mean, I'm just, I'm not in your head, but I'm trying to think of what word you're looking for. But, you know, think about what she said. You know, as a suspense writer, even a romantic suspense writer, it sounds like she had a lot of murder in her books. Well, you know who else spends a lot of?

of time thinking about murder. Murders? Well, you and I. Oh, yeah, we do. Researching murder, writing about murder, talking about murder. And orange is not your color either. No. But you do like jumpsuits for some strange reason.

Something about a nice jumpsuit, you know? And I've heard a lot of people say, especially women who have written in and say, well, you know, my husband worries about me listening to all these true crime podcast. Yeah. Because, you know, they're afraid. I'm going to learn how to get away with murder. It might be on to something.

In this post, Nancy listed five motives for murder, finances, lying and cheating, falling in love with someone else, abuse, or being a hired killer. She also listed out methods of murder in one section of the essay. According to K-O-I-N-6, these options to consider included guns. and then she wrote loud, messy, requires some skill. If it takes 10 shots for the sucker to die, either you have terrible aim or he's on drugs. Knives.

Really personal and close up. Blood everywhere. Ooh. Okay. You don't see a lot of people who are, you know, talking about murder use the term, ooh. Yeah.

The third one was, grow. How much upper body strength does it require to strangle a person? Nancy wrote in the conclusion, I find it easier to wish people dead than to actually kill them. I don't want to worry about blood and brains splattered on my walls. And really, I'm not good at remembering lies. But the thing I know about murder is that every one of us has it in him or her when pushed far enough. And to be honest with you, that statement might be true. I mean, if you think about it, is anyone capable of murder? I mean, I think the answer is yes. Most of us are never going to do it. But if push far enough, maybe you just would. Now, if you came at me with one of the 16 knives that you have on you at this time,

I might be forced to defend myself and shoot you. Now, I'm assuming, that that's going to be ruled a justifiable homicide or whatever the term is. You'll probably be okay. So maybe it's not technically murder. Maybe I should have said, I think most people are capable of killing someone if they had to in a certain situation. I'm going to agree with you on that. From 2014 to 2017, Nancy and Dan were struggling financially. In the fall of 2017, they took out $35,000 from Dan's retirement account about half of the

accounts value to catch up on mortgage and credit card payments. And I get it. You might have to do that. You know, if you get into financial straits, it's not an ideal scenario because you want that money to work for you and to be able to grow. But according to the Oregonian, Nancy still made payments for Dan's life insurance. plane, even though she was skipping mortgage payments. Now, that's very suspicious.

Yeah, it's either terrible financial decision making or it's a precursor to a crime that's about to happen. On the morning of June 2nd, 2018, Dan Brophy was murdered inside the Oregon Culinary Institute. It was a seemingly normal day for Dan. He entered the building and turned off the alarm at 7.22 a.m. Then went about preparing for class. He was standing at the sink getting ice water and coffee ready for the students when he was shot in the back at close range. The killer then fired a second shot directly into his chest.

Dan's students found his body around 8 a.m. Authorities found 2 9mm shell casings at the scene. His wallet was also found and nothing had been stolen from the Institute, which seemingly ruled out robbery. There were also no signs of a disturbance or struggle. Dan's pocket knife was still clipped to his pants. He didn't get a chance to defend himself. And these are the types of things that we talk about in many cases.

If you're a burglar and you kill someone, you don't take their wallet. You don't take anything from this place, which I'm sure there was some valuable stuff inside the institute. Well, what were you there for? And then when you have no signs of a disturbance or struggle, and Dan doesn't get out as none, I mean,

it's pretty obvious that he was kind of ambushed. Yeah. So what are police left to think? That this was most likely a robbery gone wrong, or that this was someone who knew Dan, knew his schedule, was either close to him or, you know, had some knowledge of what he did on a daily basis.

And that could have been another reason why he didn't take his knife out if he knew the person didn't feel a threat. Well, that's true. I mean, he was shot first in the back, but that doesn't mean he didn't turn his back on the person who shot him because he had no reason to fear that person. A forensic scientist with the Oregon State Police would later testify that Dan was likely shot with a Glock. And you know, 9mm Glockes, a lot of people have them. It's a very popular gun. I think it's like the most popular gun. It might be one of the most popular 9mm.

For sure. Nancy came to the OCI after a friend called her and told her police were there. She was informed her husband had been killed. Nancy told detectives is quoted by oxygen. Here's the terrible thing. Even if you find who shot him, it's not. It's not. It's not. You know, not going to bring him back. And I want him back. That's the part I want. I don't care about who shot him. I just want him back. Okay. I mean, these could be the words of a grieving spouse, right? They just found out that their husband has been killed. And they're saying, hey, I just want my husband back. But obviously, that can't happen. What can happen is to find out who did this and maybe, you know, get some justice. So it's either she's so grief-stricken that she's not really thinking about what she's saying,

or she's being truthful that she doesn't care about who shot him because she already knows. Big possibility. During her initial interview, Nancy said she had been home all morning and only spoke to Dan briefly before he left. Nancy shared news of Dan's death on Facebook on June 3rd. In her post, she called Dan her best friend and wrote, While I appreciate all of your loving responses, I am overwhelmed, please save phone calls for a few days until I can function. And I think if I saw that, I wouldn't make anything out of it.

Gibbs, I really wouldn't. How could you not be overwhelmed? How could you not be in a state? of trauma, depression, you know, whatever you want to call it. Yeah, you know people want to reach out, but you don't really want to talk to anybody, probably. I think that would be how I would expect them to be. But authorities quickly discovered that Nancy was lying to them. The OCI did not have video surveillance, inside or outside, but cameras from nearby

businesses captured Nancy's van driving near the OCI. around the time of the murder. Detectives also discovered that Nancy had purchased a glon, believed to be the type of gun that killed them. Okay, you are going to go based on that information very quickly from the grieving spouse to a potential murder suspect. You told the police you were home. Video surveillance says otherwise.

You also bought the exam. exact type of gun thought to be the murder weapon. Not looking good for Nancy, right? You know, for somebody that has these books on suspense and murder, I feel like she didn't really do her homework on how to make sure it didn't show up in her own life. Yeah, I get what you're saying. I'm sure she knew there probably was no video surveillance inside or outside of the Culinary Institute. what she probably didn't count on was video surveillance from another business picking her up.

Now, I don't know how she thought she was going to get away with, you know, the police not finding out that she had purchased this Glock handgun. Nancy was arrested on September 5th and charged with murder an unlawful use of a weapon. On September 14th, a grand jury, a grand jury. indicted Nancy for murder with a firearm constituting domestic violence. Nancy pleaded not guilty. Court documents were unsealed in April 2019, revealing that Nancy asked detectives to write a letter declaring she was not a suspect so she could collect Dan's $40,000 life insurance policy. Detectives didn't give her the letter and learned she was actually the beneficiary of several policies worth more than 350,000.

Well, she was selling them, right? Oh, yeah, selling life insurance on the side. Yeah, maybe she found a way to use that to her advantage. Without Dan even knowing, possibly. According to the documents, Nancy was seen driving by the OCI building at 708 a.m. She was seen leaving the area at 7.28 a.m. The coworker of Dan arrived at 7.30.

30 a.m. But his body wasn't found until students entered the building at 8 o'clock. But we mentioned it, right? Nancy told the police she was at home on the morning of the murder. When asked if Dan might carry a gun for protection, Nancy said she recently purchased a Glock 9mm pistol at a gun show, which Dan was aware of, but neither of them had used. She turned the gun into the police. Okay, so she's not trying to hide the fact that she bought this Glock, the state crime lab determined Dan was most likely shot by a Glock 9mm pistol. But it was likely not the gun. Nancy turned in.

Well, we're not really surprised, right? I mean, she gave them the gun. I'm sure she gave them the gun because she knew they weren't going to be able to tie it to the murder. Yeah, most murderers, if she was a murderer, they wouldn't just voluntarily give up the murder weapon. Right. I think the question is, in something we're going to have to look at down the road, is what was the purpose of buying this Glock 9mm? Was it to create a smoke screen? It certainly seems so. Detectives also discovered that Nancy and Dan shared an iTunes account. And there was a bookmarked article on their account titled, 10 ways to cover up a murder.

Okay, like we said, if people searched our computers or search history, all of that, it would not look good for us. It wouldn't. Now, we do have an excuse in the fact that we do a number of true crime podcasts, but if we didn't, our search history would look really bad. Especially yours. But she also has a similar excuse, though, right? I mean, she can say I'm a writer.

I'm researching. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. more court documents were released in late April 2020. Ahead of a bail hearing, Nancy's lawyers argued she should be moved out of jail and put on house arrest due to the pandemic. And I'm sure there were a lot of attorneys arguing that. In their arguments for why Nancy should remain in jail, the DA's office provided details about the investigation, revealing that Nancy and Dan were living month to month financially. and that Nancy was seeking a more exciting life.

That more exciting life. I'm so tired just sitting around this house with you. I want to do something and do something fun. Maybe with someone else. Nancy told authorities she and Dan purchased a Glock at a gun show in early 2018. In response to the mass shooting in Parkland, Florida, they lost interest in the gun and never bought any ammunition.

As we mentioned, right, ballistics testing determined that Nancy's Glock was not the murder weapon. However, detectives later found out Nancy purchased a replacement slide in barrel on eBay. Are you getting a little sneaky now? Very sneaky. Because when you start to talk about ballistics, right, you are talking about the barrel. You're talking about the ejector markings. So if you change out the slide and barrel, it's not going to match the ballistics of the gun that you bought. Right.

And it's very easy to switch out both a slide and a barrel. It literally takes no time at all. Now, I was not aware you could buy a barrel and slide on eBay. But maybe that's not considered or wasn't considered a firearm. Because it's pieces. Yeah, it's pieces of a gun. but you can't really do anything with it. It still seems like a loophole though.

It does. But I think we are getting maybe into the area Gibbs of, you know, a fiction crime, romance crime writer. You know, is that part of the thought process? When you sit down to start or write a book, okay, how does the person who is going to commit the murder think they're going to get away with it? Right. and I got to be honest with you,

this is not the dumbest thing in the world. It's not. Investigators believe she put the replacement slide and barrel on the Glock before the shooting, then reassembled the gun with its original parts, presenting a new fully intact firearm to police that would not be a match to the shell casings that she left at the crime scene. Okay. And again, I'm telling you, that's that's pretty ingenious i hate to say that but it really is and like i said putting in a slide

putting in a barrel that's just you know you you have to reassemble those parts after cleaning a gun it's it's not hard at all yeah but you have to be thinking it like a killer oh you have to think ahead yeah the second slide and barrel were never found additionally per the court document Nancy made an accidental death benefit workers' compensation claim after the murder. Between life insurance and workers' comp, she stood to receive $1.15 million. That's a lot of money. It is. Yeah.

The brofies also had more than $300,000 equity in their home, meaning Nancy could have gained around $1.5 million from Dan's debt. So let's go back to him being killed at the Culinary Institute. I don't think that was accidental because of this worker's comp claim that seemed to be worth quite a bit of money. Well, that can only happen, right, if something happens to him while he's working. Yeah, that's a good point. In 2017, the brofies fell over $6,000 behind on mortgage payments. Yet they paid over $16,000 in insurance premium. She paid.

That's a lot of money in insurance premium. It really is. D.A. Rod Underhill wrote in the court documents, Dan Brofey was content in his simplistic lifestyle. But Nancy Brofey wanted something more. As Nancy became more financially desperate and her writing career was floundering, she was left with few options. So they're, you know, they're really getting into the area of motive, right, for the murder.

Obviously, you have the financial component. Yeah. Which we've talked about, the life insurance, the workers comp. But then you also have this component of Nancy's writing career, you know, was flounder. But she wanted a much more affluent or exciting lifestyle than what she was leading with Dan. Dan apparently didn't care for that. He was fine sitting at home, very much like I am. I don't need to be jet setting off to France.

I'm fine here in the confines of my home. If you want French fries, you're going on McDonald's and get them. No, you are not a world traveler. No, there are places I'd like to visit, but I don't need to be a jet setter. No, not you. that's what I'm getting from Nancy Brophy. She needs excitement. She needs what's happening in her romance thriller novels.

Exactly. Not sitting on the couch watching Wheel of Fortune. Yeah. She wants to live what she's writing. Yes. I think that was a big part of it. Nancy's trial was delayed by the pandemic and finally started on April 4th, 2022. On day one of the trial, the judge ruled in favor of the defense and did not allow Nancy's

2011 essay, how to murder your husband into evidence, which I understand, right? I mean, how do you make the connection that something she wrote in 2011 is part of this murder that the prosecution said happened in 2018 and that she's responsible for? Yeah, I get it. I'd want it thrown out too. If you leave it in, it's not going to help your case at all. No, it's not going to help Nancy's whatsoever. In opening statements, prosecutors describe the surveillance video that shows Nancy's van in the area of the institute before Dan arrived to work.

And after he entered the building and was killed. The prosecutor told the jury, per KGW8, Dan was standing at a commercial sink. He was filling up the ice and water buckets, as he did every day. For the students, he would have had his back to the door. Nancy likely came through. Nancy then shot him first through the back, penetrating his spine, piercing his heart. As Dan fell on to his back, possibly paralyzed, Nancy shot him through the chest, also piercing his heart. Well, Nancy wasn't going to mess around.

No, I mean, if it happened the way that the prosecutor is putting forth, then no, she walked right in, shot him twice and got out of there. But also, she's dealing with a time crunch, right? She had to have known if she's the shooter, what time the students come. She knows his day, probably. True. She don't have time to fiddle around. And also the fact that there's going to be other people. people, workers coming in aside from students. But what, you know, really gets me in cases like

this, Gibbs, is the thought that you could be so callous to your wife or husband, this person with whom you're supposedly in love with. It's just, it's hard to believe. You know, being married for almost 30 years, I can't imagine it. I would never. want my wife to hurt at all. And I certainly wouldn't shoot her in the back and then as she was falling to the ground, shoot her in the chest. I mean, I wouldn't shoot her at all, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah, I got you. I just can't imagine it. But there are people out there that probably can't imagine it. Oh, it, yeah. I mean, it happens all the time. We know it. It doesn't change, you know, my incredulity around it. Oh, look at that.

I put that in there for you. Wait and you use that word? It happened. And I'm sure you'll find a way to use it later on in the episode, as you normally do. Absolutely. I will. When Nancy allegedly came home, her neighbor saw her looking distraught, she said she was looking for her dogs that had gotten out, but the neighbors never saw any dogs.

A friend called and told Nancy the police were at the culinary school. She called her friend back and forth before calling Dan's mom. mom who asked why she hadn't gone over to see what was going on. Nancy did eventually go and speak to the police. And I think that would be the question I'd be asking too. Why are you making all these phone calls? Get in the freaking car and go over and see what's going on. Yeah. But you know who doesn't need to go find out what's going on? The person that did it. Yeah, because they already know. And I think there are some things like this that, you know, kind of give that away.

When she was told Dan had been killed, she said, yeah, I got that when everyone gave me a sad sack look. Okay. I don't think that's the reaction that the police would expect from most spouses when they're told that their loved one has been shot and killed. Yeah, I got that. Yeah. According to the prosecution, the brofies paid around a thousand.

thousand dollars a month for multiple life insurance policies while sometimes failing to pay their mortgage. Dan took out a $35,000 loan against his retirement to help with the mortgage. And again, we've talked about this a couple times, but I think it's big. Life insurance is important. Don't get me wrong. Now, a thousand dollars a month is a lot of money for life insurance. It really is. What was to pay out for her $300,000? I don't know. I think. I thought it was like $3.50. Yeah. Now, maybe they were paying the workers' comp too.

Maybe. Because that was a large amount, it seemed like. Yeah. But I don't know. You don't normally pay the workers' comp, I don't think. But I don't know how it broke down. All I know is I have healthy life insurance policies, don't tell my wife, I don't pay anywhere near that.

I pay like that a year. Yeah, I know the one. Not a month. I know the one I pay for you is not too bad. Well, of course not because you're paying it. Yeah, that's true. So obviously you're not going to spend a lot, but you're hedging your bets and you're hoping to collect on that at some point in time.

How you got the life insurance policy without me signing a single piece of paper, I have no idea. Well, you signed. I just had no idea I was signing a life insurance policy. It's just a lot of money. A thousand dollars a month when, you then can't pay your mortgage. It's the wrong priority.

Oh, absolutely. And what are police to think? Well, you made that a priority because you were planning on killing your husband. Exactly. Nancy said in a recorded call with a detective, four days after Dan died, I don't want to be the stupid question of the day. I think I have to be the question of the day. Okay.

So she's saying she gets it. She's going to be the question of the day. She doesn't want to be the stupid question of the day. The state also pointed out that when the police came to arrest Nancy, she said, oh, you must think I killed my husband. And I'm sure they said, yes, we do. It's why we're here. The jury heard that in late 2017, Nancy started researching ghost guns.

a term for untraceable firearms that can be purchased online and assembled at home. According to Fox 12, Nancy spent $15,000 of the retirement account money on guns and gun parts, including a ghost gun she received in January 2018 that she was unable to build. Wow. She took this serious. Yeah, but just think about the money, right? We can't pay our mortgage. were $6,000 behind.

You know, what is one of the things that people try to pay? Their mortgage. Yeah. Who doesn't want to be without a roof? You could have took half that money, paid your mortgage and been okay. But I just think when investigators and the authorities learn all this, you know, why would somebody want a ghost go? It's because it's untraceable.

Yeah. That's why it's such a hot topic. It's why they're, you know, they get. it banned. Nobody wants that. Didn't that kid that shot the insurance guy used one of those. Did he? Yeah, maybe. I think he did. I think he might be

right. Nancy then purchased a Glock handgun barrel on eBay in February 2018. Investigators theorized she attached this barrel, which was never found to the Glock she bought at a gun ship. I don't want to keep

overstressing it, but I almost have to. It's so easy to replace a barrel, to replace a slot. And as much as I hate to admit it, this is a pretty ingenious plan. Now, the problem is not that hard for investigators to figure out that you bought the barrel. Exactly. And that's kind of where the plan goes awry. And then not too hard to theorize that you replace.

the barrel, shot your husband, put the original barrel back in, and then gave the gun to police as if, you know, you didn't, you weren't worried at all because you weren't. Because that's not technically the gun. The gun that fired the fatal shots. Go ahead. Run test on it. Yeah. Please.

The defense speculated the murder could have been a robbery gone wrong. Nancy's defense noted that she sold insurance for years and made commissions off policies she sold, even the one she sold to herself. She and Dan were using the $35,000 to pay credit card debt, their mortgage, and do landscaping in preparation for selling their home. You mean besides the $15,000 that she spent on the ghost gun. Yes. And gun parts. Nancy's attorneys acknowledged that she visited ghost gun sites and purchased two firearms. She was inspired by the crimes of Kevin Neal. The California man who killed five people and injured 10.

In 2017, Neil built a gun because he couldn't buy one. Nancy wanted to write a story about a woman who was in an abusive relationship and was afraid to leave. This character would build a gun because she could not purchase one. Nancy wanted to purchase a ghost gun for research purposes. She found a New York Times article that had links to the websites she visited, she purchased the gun in 2017 and viewed it as a jigsaw puzzle.

The defense claimed that Nancy asked Dan for help, but realized she didn't have the equipment or skill to put it together so it sat unused. Hey honey, I know we haven't paid the mortgage in a while and we could lose the house, but I really want to buy this ghost gun and research it. So, yeah, we're not going to pay the,

house payment at this time either. Does that does not even make sense? No, as though that would go over well. Yeah. Now, I get it. You can make the argument that you might spend some money to buy something that would later than help you in your knowledge, right, of writing a compelling story. $15,000 is quite a bit of money given the financial straits they were in. Exactly. I think you could maybe just research it online. Dan also knew Nancy was going to buy a gun at the gunship. She purchased a slide and barrel because replacing some parts might be easier than building a whole gun.

Now that makes no sense to me whatsoever. Do you know how well built a Glock is? There's a reason why Glock is, you know, one of the most sold firearms. Number one, they work. they're very reliable. You can fire, I don't know how many tens or hundreds of thousands of rounds and never have to replace a gun. You would have to replace some parts, right?

Springs, you know, maybe a slide, maybe a barrel at some point. But it would be down the road. Most people don't buy those extra parts when they buy the gun. No. It's going to be some years down the road. that's with quite a bit of shooting. So, you know, that explanation to me just doesn't hold water. The defense noted that Nancy had purchased other items for writing research,

including night vision goggles, a telescope, handcuffs, glass doorknops, and different kinds of locks. All right. I get it. But those aren't $15,000 worth of stuff. Well, I don't know. Night vision goggles can be quite expensive. what I was thinking is none of these things are something used to kill a person.

Well, I guess you could kill someone with a lot of different items, but you know what I mean. Yes. Also, the other difference is that, you know, the other times where she did buy some of this stuff, her husband wasn't killed. So, you know, you have to factor that in as well. Nathaniel Stillwater, Dan's son from his first marriage testified for the prosecution. Nathaniel had previously sued Nancy in civil court for wrongful death. He testified that he once had a strained relationship with his dad, but after reconnecting

with Dan, he started working for Nancy's catering company. Nancy and Dan sometimes took care of his daughter. They enjoyed being grandparents. If Dan and Nancy ever fought, it wasn't in front of him. Nathaniel testified, is quoted by KGW8. there was never much cause for concern. I could probably count on one hand. The evenings we came over and noticed tension.

And to me, that only goes back to what you and I talk about often. There are a lot of people outside the home that just don't see what's really going on in a relationship. Including one of your kids. Absolutely. If they're not living there on a full-time basis, they're not going to see everything about a year before the murdered, Nancy and Dan talked about selling their home. Nathania was surprised.

And Dan told him they needed a ranch style home because Nancy had a hip or a knee issue and struggle with stairs. And that wouldn't be unusual, right? People as they get older, sometimes kind of downsize to a ranch home for this very reason. Who wants to walk upstairs when you have certain types of ailments or knee? hip issues, stuff like that. It's pretty normal when people get older,

they want to do that. My parents did it. I'll probably have to do it, you know. I'm not that far away from doing it either. You know why? Because I hate having my bedroom on the second floor. Yeah. Number one, it's always way hotter.

There's no way around it. No doubt about it. And right now it's 95 degrees. Yeah. So sleeping is a little tougher. But you still have stairs. You got to tackle. if you're going to have a basement because you like to hide from everybody. Oh, that's true. I'm always

going to have a basement. But that would be one set of stairs instead of two. Now, Nancy wanted to travel around Europe after they sold their house, but she and Dan never reached a common ground on their plans before he was killed. And that's interesting to me because we said it earlier, right? She wanted this more exciting life. And Dan, it was said, was pretty content with his, what was called pragmatic lifestyle. Oh yeah, the incredulity of it. Oh, exactly. I knew you'd bring it around at some point.

It was said Nathaniel didn't know much about their finances. But Nancy expressed some anxiety about money after Dan died. He remembered soon after she indicated to him that the coffers had refilled. The coffers had refilled. Okay. What coffers? It sounds very callous. I get it.

People worry about finances regardless of the situation, but your husband's just been killed, been murdered. And you're telling his son, don't worry, the coffers have refilled. Yeah. After Dan died, Nathaniel learned he was a beneficiary of the life insurance policies. He also learned Nancy was not on the mortgage, but was recently added to the deep before Dan died. He also learned that Nancy and Dan were not married,

but had recently filed paperwork to get legally married. Okay. So there's some added layers here. Sure is. And it's almost like a lot of this is happening right before Dan is killed. Right. Nancy's not on the mortgage, but she's added. Well, that's a big deal. Because if you're not on the mortgage, you're not getting that.

That's right. And we said they had, what, $300,000 in equity on the house. That's a lot of money. That is a whole lot of money. And they weren't legally married, but had filed paperwork. On day six of the trial, the jury learned that Nancy's van was seen near the OCI much earlier than was previously made public. Detective Anthony Merrill testified.

that two detectives took Nancy home, one driving her van for her. Since she was in an emotional state, after learning Dan was dead, Merrill returned to view surveillance footage from businesses near the OCI and was shocked when he and his partner saw a van that looked like Nancy's. Nancy's van was seen in the area at 6.39 a.m. at 7 a.m. and at 7.m. and at 701 a.m. Originally, it was reported that the van was seen at 7.09, which it was. The van was then seen at 728 a.m. leaving the area. This was significant because Nancy originally said she was still in bed between 645 and 650 that morning. She said she saw Dan leave the house between 705 and 710 a.m. Well, obviously, those statements can't be true. No, there's a conflict here. If she's in her van being seen.

near the OCI at 639 a. During cross-examination, the defense pointed out a man in the surveillance footage that the police did not identify or talk to. He was loitering in a parking lot near the institute. When the police drove past, he looked into a back and walked off. The defense also focused on a man named Oscar Taylor, who had prior convictions for robbery, theft, and assault against police.

The defense pointed out a note. from Detective Merrill's interview with Taylor. Taylor said about the people around the Institute. Lots of crazy guys down there carry guns. This comment did not make it into the final report written by Merrill's colleague. It's an important piece of information you want the jury to hear. If you're the defense. Yes. Yeah. And you're probably going to make something out of the fact that it doesn't make it into the final report. Now, could that just be an omission, an accident? Yeah, it could be. Could the defense also spin it into, well, they didn't want that in there because they wanted everything to point at Nancy. Yeah, that's the type of stuff the defense will do. The detectives who

drove Nancy home also took the stand. Detective Rico Benica testified that Nancy allowed them into her home and gave them her gun without hesitation. Well, at the house, he received a call, asking him to take photos of Nancy's van because a similar one was seen on surveillance. He asked Nancy if this was okay. And she responded, why? I wasn't there this morning. I was at home. Both detectives noted that the slide of the firearm, Nancy turned in, was seated incorrectly on the base of the gun. This would be difficult to do. Accidentally, there was also a zip tie on the barrel of the gun. Why would you have that? I don't know if they're talking about something that came from the factory.

I don't think a zip tie is, I've, I had a Glock at one time. I haven't had one for a very long time. I don't know. I don't know what the zip tie would be for. Detective Darren Posey testified that he contacted J&B, the company that sold Nancy the Glock 17 at the gun show, and asked them to record a video of how to change a slide and barrel on a gun. They exchanged the slide and barrel with the zip tie for one without a zip tie. The police believe Nancy did the same. So again, that may explain where the zip tie comes in. And maybe it did come from the factory. Maybe it was a part of the original gun and you have to remove that before operation. Insurance expert Stephen Santos testified that the brofies paid over $800 a month

for life insurance policies worth more than $700,000 for Dan alone, which was 20% of their gross income. And I'm assuming that meant that $800 was 20% of their gross income. income. Sure. Not the $700,000. Yeah. But that's a lot, right?

You spend 20% of your gross income on life insurance. Oh, yeah. That's a huge number. And Santos said this was not financially responsible. And if they were his clients, he would advise them to make changes. And I think any, you know, financial expert, insurance expert would say the same thing. Again, life insurance is important. But having so much life insurance that you can't pay your mortgage, that is not fiscally responsible.

It's just stupid. It also inspires a great amount of incredulity. Yes, I was going to say the same thing. I figured you were. Yeah. The jury also heard from Nancy's former cellmate, Andrea Jacobs. Andrea and Nancy were housed together for about 15 months. and were friendly with each other, Nancy sometimes talked about her case.

Andrea asked Nancy how her husband died and testified that Nancy told me that he was shot two times to the heart. And she showed me the distance. Nancy stretched out her arms and indicated it was about this far. According to Andrea, she said when we were first talking, she slipped up and she started to say, I, but then she switched really quick to it. So I mean, she was saying it was about this far instead of. I was about, I mean, it was about.

Yeah. So, I mean, again, you know, you have to be careful with jailhouse informants, but, you know, sometimes they do have good information. I mean, if you're in a small cell with somebody for 15 months. Yeah. at some point, you're probably going to be talking about a lot of stuff. People like to talk. They do.

You know, they want to get it off their chest. They want to tell somebody. Now, Jacobs admitted she had a pending motion for compassionate release from prison when she spoke to detectives, but denied seeking any benefit from the conversation. The defense called on Reed College professor Daniel Reisberg, whose research focused on how memory operates, Rysberg noted that he is not a trained mental health professional. The judge allowed the defense to ask general questions about how trauma could impact memory, but would not allow the defense to testify for Nancy by repeating what she said.

A high level of stress leads to the biological process for memory consolidation not happening. Reisberg also described retrograde amnesia, which can cause someone to lose their memory. of the minutes or hours prior to the stress because the body is sending resources elsewhere. Nancy got on the stand and described her relationship with her husband and how she felt after losing him. It's quoted by oxygen. She said, it's like you've lost an arm. Like, you're not as good as you were when you were with him. You were the best you could be when you were together with him.

Now it's like, yeah, I function, but there's something missing. Like an arm, according to her. Well, she could have said it's like if you chopped your own arm off. Yeah. Nancy described their financial struggles from 2014 to 2017 after Dan lost his second income and they had unexpected medical expenses. They were planning to sell their home and downsize to pay off their mortgage and credit card debt. Their life insurance policies were part of their planning for retirement.

I'm really sure how that works. I mean, I guess if you have one of those annuities, but. It didn't sound like they did. Right. Who's got a $700,000 policy or policies just for Dan that are actually worth money, right? Like annuities. That, to me, sounds like term life, not whole life, if I'm using those terms correctly. That's just more aneuruity.

Yeah. You said it, brother. Nancy acknowledged that she read an article about ghost guns in 2017 and planned to incorporate the concept into a future novel. She purchased a gun kid, which Dan was aware of, but it was more intricate than she expected. A few months later, she bought a Glock 17 at a gun show in Portland and a slide online. So here's the one thing that's troubling me. You know, I get a writer buying something to get. get the full experience to be able to write about it more intelligently and in depth.

Sure. And, you know, if you're a big time writer, if you're Grisham, okay, maybe you spend $15,000 on something. Yeah. But it said her writing career was floundering. I don't think she was making all that much money if she's selling life insurance on the side. So that's a huge chunk of their disposable income.

Yeah, I mean, I get it. It's probably a write-off, which I don't even know what that is. Nobody does. Yeah. But anyway, I mean, you just don't have it to lay out. For a future novel that may or may not get written, pay out, on the day of the murder, a friend called her and alerted her to a situation involving police at the OCI. She tried to call Dan several times and received no response, so she called her mother-in-law.

She drove to Portland and was worried when she saw groups of students outside the OCI, but not Dan. When an officer hugged her, she knew he was dead. During cross-examination, Nancy admitted that she took the slide and barrel off the Glock 17. She purchased at a gun show. She explained that she purchased the new slide and barrel because she was fascinated with guns. at the time and wanted to do research for her book. The missing slide and barrel was packed up with her belongings before she was arrested, and she didn't know how it went missing.

So again, for me, this is always that part, Gibbs, where, you know, the defendant has to try to explain some incriminating fact. Sure they do. And that fact here is, you know, that she bought this slide and barrel. it mysteriously went missing. And she's trying to explain that away. During redirect questioning, Nancy testified that she experienced what she called a memory hole

concerning the morning of the murder. Well, that's interesting. That's a new one on me. Yeah, I don't think I've ever heard of that. I don't know if that's a technical term. I don't know if that's something she just has made up. She said she woke up. Talk to Dan about a leaky sink in the bathroom, then left the house to get coffee and work on her writing.

She has a memory of parking and working on her writing, but she can't remember if that occurred on June 2, 2018. According to Oxygen, she believed she may have gone to Starbucks and then got lost in thought is she drove around thinking about her book. You know, what's always safe when you're driving around the city is to get lost. lost in thought. Yeah. Very safe. Very responsible.

She admitted she was the person inside the van seen in surveillance video around the time of the murder. She also testified that her statements about what happened were, quote, based on putting stuff back together, not based upon actual memory. Say what? I don't know. I'm not sure exactly what she's saying. The prosecutor questioned how names. Nancy knew she didn't go into the OCI building. If she had no memory of what she was doing while driving around, she responded by saying,

I know I didn't go in the building because I know I didn't kill Dan. I know that for a fact. You know, and here's where you talk about like selective memory. I remember that, but I don't remember anything else. Yeah, I was going to say she didn't remember that she was driving down there earlier. Now she remembers she was driving down there. So it's just convenient. Right.

Convenient memory, selective memory, whatever you want to call it. But the most important part is that she didn't kill Dan. That she remembers. It's why she's on trial. But all the stuff that is kind of incriminating pointing to the fact that she did kill Dan, she doesn't remember. When asked if she agreed she was driving around the. corner of the building. At the exact time Dan was shot, Nancy responded per K-O-I-N-6. No, I actually don't agree

with that. I was driving around for a full hour before Dan got murdered. I was down there before Dan ever got to school and was driving around for a full hour. I was only in that vicinity for six minutes. And I don't know that Dan was murdered in that six minutes. So she's lost great chunks of her memory during this time. But she knows where she was for that exact six minutes. You conveniently, now she's like, I know. That is not part of the memory hole. Yeah.

In closing statements, the defense argued that the Brofis were so in love, that Nancy would never kill her husband. And an attorney said the bottom line is Nancy Brofey was far better off with Dan in her life, even if you look at pure economic terms. ignoring the love, she was better off with Dan a lot. Who is he? Stone Cold? And that's the bottom line.

Well, but is that true? From a pure economic standpoint, was she better off with Dan a lot? I think it's a hard argument to make given the financial straits they were in. Sure. And the $1.5 million windfall that she. you know, could have gotten after his death. You know, it goes back to that old term worth more dead than a lot. Yeah.

Yeah, true. On May 25th, 2022, Nancy was found guilty of second degree murder. After the verdict, Dan's family spoke to the media and said they had been waiting almost four years to start grieving and have closure. Dan's mother, Karen Brophy, said about Nancy. She was our daughter-in-law for a long time. When she was arrested, it wasn't surprised us until we found out she hadn't been truthful with us either. And, you know, I think it's hard to overstate how tough that would be for the family.

Yeah. You know, here's a person who has been a part of your family for years and years, married to your son. I'm sure when it first happened, as is often the case, they probably backed her. You see that quite often. But once they learn what the police know and they find out that she was lying to them, I'm sure their opinions changed pretty quickly. On June 13, 2022, Nancy was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole after 25 years. In 2024, Nancy filed an appeal for a retrial arguing a dozen errors.

The appeal argues that Nancy shouldn't have been allowed to answer. the prosecutor's final question. During cross-examination, according to the Oregonian, prosecutor Sean Overstreet asked, my last question to you, Ms. Brophy, is,

if there's one thing that you know about murder, is it that anyone is capable of doing it? This phrasing came from Nancy's essay. How to murder your husband? Nancy responded that she absolutely believed. Anyone is capable of murder and added, if it's your child, 10 to 1, you will find yourself capable of murder.

Nancy's appeal attorney argued that her opinion on humanity's capacity for murder was irrelevant and improper character evidence. The appeal sought to suppress all evidence gathered from Nancy's computers and phone and said that the article 10 ways to cover up a murder. Bookmarked on the joint iTunes account was written for millions. history novelists and not criminals. Barring a successful appeal, Nancy will not be eligible for parole until she is in her 90s. Prosecutors and investigators full certain that Nancy killed her husband, conducting research on how to get away with murder and disposing of evidence that would have proved her gun was the murder weapon.

And as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, it's an interesting case. you know, you don't have video, right, of Nancy killing damn. No. You don't have that type of evidence, but you've got some, you know, pretty damning surveillance footage. You have this Glock 19 with the extra slide and barrel, you know, just all of it points to someone with, you know, a pretty good mind for. crime fiction writing. Right. Because like I said, as much as I hate to admit it, it's pretty ingenious.

Yes. She just had a few flaws. Yeah. She didn't get away with it. But I think there was also a lot of thought and planning that went into it. You know, for me, the bottom line is regardless of how it appeared to those on the outside. I don't think Nancy Brofie was happy in her marriage. they weren't financially secure.

She wanted a far more adventurous lifestyle than Dan did. And I think she started to try to figure a way out of all of her problems. Financial relationship and her solution was to kill her husband and devise a scheme so that she would not get caught. And she did a halfway decent job. She did. She just made some mistakes. And, you know, she got caught on surveillance video.

Thankfully, because, you know, without some of that and leaving a record of, you know, buying this extra barrel and slide on eBay, she could have very well gotten away with this murder. Could have. I've seen a movie or a show not too long ago where they did that, you know, the, uh, One guy took the other guy's gun that had the same gun and switched out the barrel and slide. Yeah. Yeah. Use it to kill somebody. And then came back. Switched him back. Switched him back. So now he, his buddy had the gun that was the murder weapon. And then he's the one that went down for the murder. Yeah. So it works, I guess. It could work. And that's the thing, right? Her idea, could have worked.

Could have. And that's the scary part about. Yeah. Thankfully, it did. But that's it for our episode on Nancy Brophy. We've got a voicemail. You want to check that out? Yes, hear it.

Hi, my name is, Dr. I'm sorry about you guys. I just want more to go wrong. I'm just going to be a few weeks. We're talking about how my this childhood was. You know, I agree it's childhood. It's bad.

Like you guys said, it doesn't excuse what he did. But I don't know if you guys. like to read like, they're not, but there's a book you guys won't be in there for a name when he's called a child called it. It's about, as he's wrote by a man named David Hespoor, I think he was last, and he is talking about his childhood and all this stuff that he went through. And he just ended up becoming the best seller and author. He was actually a really good one.

Like I said, he made a series of it. The first one is called A Child Called It. Next one is A Lost. boy and then a man named day. Um, maybe something you might be interested in or maybe some of them out on the podcast, maybe some other, those might be interesting.

All right. Thank you. You don't have a good day. All right. Thanks for the voicemail. I am not familiar with those, but they sound like they could be interesting reads. Yeah,

I mean, check them out. I mean, I've read a lot of things. Oh, that's a given. But I haven't read those yet. So I mean,

I have to put them in my, uh, my list of things. things to read. There's like, you know, you see my list. It's very long. But yet you've read so much. Why is the list still so long?

Because I keep adding to it. I'm so interested and, you know, what the world has to offer far as literary masterpieces. Exactly. I got you. You're a world traveler. You're well read. You're a member of men. So we get it.

But I really do prefer the movies version. I know. That's the strange thing about it. For all your academic proficiencies, you really like movies and picture books. I do. I love all picture books are the best. I don't know why they stop making them after a certain age, you know? They stopped making them for people after a certain age.

Yeah. Yeah. I get you. Because they're not necessary. Oh, all right, buddy. That is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.