True Crime All The Time - Oba Chandler

Episode Date: September 3, 2017

In 1989, Joan Rogers and her two daughters Michelle and Christe, decided to take a well earned vacation to Disney World in Florida. They lived on a farm in a small town in Ohio and this would be the first family vacation that they would take outside of the state. Hal Rogers, the husband and father, had to stay at home to take care of the farms.While in Florida, Joan, Michelle, and Christe would run into an absolute monster by the name of Oba Chandler. Chandler would assault and murder all three in a horrible way. It would take investigators many years to solve the mystery of what happened to the Rogers family. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the details of this case, the monster that was Oba Chandler, and how investigators pieced the clues together to finally put an end to him.You can help support the show by going to Patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact and merchandise information.See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Welcome everyone to episode 43 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson. Gibby, what's going on today, man? Man, it's an all right day. I thought you were going to do a Mr. Rogers. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood. I don't know why.

I just, I had that feeling. As I slide my slippers on. Put on your sweater. Put my sweater on. That probably looked good in a sweater. You think you look good in everything. I was just saying. No, you're always just saying.

Yeah, that's all. Just saying. All right, Gibbs. Let's do some Patreon shoutouts. We have Michelle Gio Camaro. A Camaro? Camero. Camero.

And I'm sure I got that wrong. I'm hoping Michelle I did it justice, but there's no guarantees. He's still learning. Yeah. Joe Ferrar. See, this is like another car name. So we got Camero, Ferrari. I see where we're headed.

No, we like Joe, man. He's on social media a lot. He actually has been a Patreon supporter for a while, but he just up to our highest level. Yeah, he's really active on all the sites. He is. So he gets a gold star contributor shout out. We have Jen Paradiso. Paradiso.

Why are you going to change the name up, man? I don't know. It is what it is. That type of day. Mary Carmody Trotman, Sean Hake. That one I know I got right. Yeah, you can't mess that up. I can't even mess that up.

Oh, and this one, Danny Jock. I know Danny. Yeah, Danny's been on social media a lot too. I don't think there's any way, not what she'll come back. You know, Fergus actually pronounced. Jock A. Joke. Yeah.

No. That's the one I don't think I could have messed up. He probably will just to mess with us. And I hope he does. Yeah. But thanks, everybody. All right, Gibbs, we have to go back into the vault. I had to open the door because Gibbs wasn't strong enough to get it open.

Huh. You don't have a good comeback for that one? No. I want to, but I don't. I know. I can see the will's turning. There's like smoke coming out of your ears. So from the vault, we've selected Rebecca Cohen, long time Patreon supporter.

Yeah. To give an extra special shout out to. So Rebecca, we appreciate your continued support. And Gibbs, like we always say, we appreciate everyone. The new supporters, the people that have been with us a long time, all of it. is amazing. And let's not leave out, you know, our supporters on Facebook, Twitter, word of mouth, people sharing. I mean, it's just, it's all encompassing. You can't leave any of it out because it's what's gotten us to this point. Appreciate it all. Yeah, we really do. So just a

reminder, if you haven't listened to criminology or sex love and murder, go out, give those a try. criminology is Mike Morford and myself talking about the Zodiac. That sounds interesting. Dude, the Zodiac to me is fascinating. I mean, that's season one. We'll go in a different direction on season two. And then sex love and murder is the one with Aphrodite and myself. And, you know, we pick a different case every week.

She sounds familiar. Yeah. She's kind of a big deal, I guess. Is she? Is she a big deal like Gibby? No, no. She's not as big a deal as Gibby. Right answer.

But no, I like Ferdite. Yeah, no, I do too. She's really cool. And then got to give a big thanks. Big shout out to Maggie. Did a lot of writing, research on this case that we're getting ready to do, Gibbs. Maggie's awesome. Maggie is awesome.

We have to thank her. And after you're done listening to this episode, make sure you switch over and check out Gibby and I on true crime all the time unsolved. We're doing a case this week on Amy Gellert. fascinating, mysterious, tragic. So make sure you check that one out and look for the Q&A episode coming out this Wednesday. Kind of midweek extra special Delio. All right, Gibbs, let's talk about our case for True Crime All Time, Oba Chandler. This is a bad dude. Just the name Oba. Well, now you've just defended every Oba out there. I didn't say it. I was just, sorry Obas.

All the other obas, I mean, there could be 5,000 obas listening right now. Oba Canoba. Oba, Oba One Cano? Oh, don't even go there. Is it Oba? Did you just butcher Star Wars? Of all movies. Yeah, probably.

Oba one Canobe. Canoba. Is that what you said? I think so. Sorry Star Wars fans. Here comes to hate mail. So Oba Chandler was born October 11th, 1946. and Gibbs, he was born just down the road from us in Cincinnati.

You know, we're talking 40 minutes away. He was the fourth of five children born to Oba Chandler Sr. And Margaret Johnson. So Oba had a very traumatic experience, Gibbs, when he was 10 years old because his father, Oba Chandler Sr. committed suicide by hanging himself in the basement of the family apartment in June of 57. That's freaky. For a 10 year old, I mean, freaky for anybody, but imagine a 10 year old having to deal with that. And there was a story that came out about Oba as it concerned the funeral.

Because as the story goes, Oba actually tried to jump into the grave as they put his dad in the ground. I've never heard of anything like this, Gibbs. Kind of sounds like a beginning of a horror movie. Well, it's definitely a strange story. I mean, just picture it in your head. You're at the graveside portion of the funeral. The coffin has been lowered into the ground. And as they're covering up the coffin with dirt, this 10-year-old Oba actually jumps down in there. I don't know.

What do you make of it, Gibbs? Did he love his dad? Was he so overwrought with grief that he just thought that was the thing to do at the time? I don't know. I don't know how you make sense of something like that. But again, the kid is 10 years old. I just wanted to point it out because it is a very strange story. Now, Oba started developing his criminal reputation around the age of 14.

And this is when he would start stealing cars. And it was said that he was arrested at least 20 times while still a juvenile. So he wasn't a good kid, right? He's doing a lot of bad things. and then he becomes an adult and that streak just continues because he ends up being charged with all kinds of crimes. I mean, we're talking about burglary, kidnapping, armed robbery, possession of counterfeit money, loitering, prowling. I mean, you name it. Oba Chandler had everything on the list. You could just tick off all the boxes. Prowling. He's a prowler. He's a prowler. And he's a loiterer.

He might have been a malingerer. Add that in there. That's the trifecta effect. Right. The trifecta effect? Yeah. On the gibby scale. On the gibby scale.

My whole life has been running from the police. Starting from when in 1969, when I was first arrested, you got to remember something where I was raised up as a kid. The majority of the time, he wasn't arrested. When you was caught doing something, you get the beat out of you with sticks, night sticks, by the cops. And Oba would also be accused of, touching himself inappropriately, let's put it that way, Gibbs, as he would peek into women's windows. So the peeking in the windows is the part that's not right. You mean as opposed to the touching of yourself?

I'm just trying to get clarity for yourself. For myself? Yeah. Or yourself? For yourself. I don't think any of it's right. Are you saying one part of it is right? No.

So Oba is a peeping Tom. Peeping, there you go. He's a peeping Tom, but he's doing some other extracurricular activities, which... Kind of gross. Yeah. Kind of gross. I mean, you know, you want to do that in the privacy of your own sanctuary. That's up to you.

Yeah. When you take it outside into the neighbor's yard, it's another story, man. You've crossed a major line. Yeah. That's where the line. line becomes. Yeah. Yeah, you definitely crossed it. The line is the threshold of your door. That's right. I guess is what I'll say that. But we've talked about this on other episodes that aside from the McDonald triad, aside from some of the other things that we talked about being a precursor to,

what would you call it Gibbs? A murderous behavior later on in life. Sure. Some of that has included these guys being peeping Tom's. I think Tom's get a bad. rap off that, by the way. Right. I mean, it could be peeping mics. It could be peeping. I don't know where they came up with peeping Tom, but somebody will let us know. But that's a true statement. A lot of these people, especially that are going to go on later to do some type of sexual crime or commit sexual crimes. Sure. Just another addiction. They start off with doing some peeping Tom type activity. Keep your, keep your curtains closed. And you're gun handy. That's what I say.

Or your K bar. But then he graduates to breaking into houses. And in particular, he broke into the home of a Florida couple, held them hostage at gunpoint and robbed them. Now, Oba had an accomplice with him and he had his partner tie up the man. And then Oba took the woman into a bedroom. And this is where the story gets. it's very strange Gibbs because Oba makes the woman take off her clothes. He ties her up. And then

it said that he rubbed the barrel of his gun across her stomach. It's just a creepy. Yeah, right. It's just a very creepy thing to do. I mean, obviously breaking into somebody's house and tying them up and, you know, whatever type of sexual assault occurred. All of that is horrible. But to just sit there and run the barrel of your gun back and forth, you know, is that, to me, that's almost like I'm in control. Oh, definitely intimidation. Yeah, I'm intimidating you. So Gibbs, now we have to switch gears because I want to talk about the Rogers family,

how Rogers the dad was married to Joan Rogers. And they owned a family farm in Ohio where they worked together as a family. to make this farm work. So Hal and Joan had two daughters. Michelle was 17, Christy 14, and both of the girls loved animals.

They loved caring for animals. It was said that Christy practiced her cheerleading routines with the cows watching. Like that was her audience. You gotta think, Gibbs, they're out in the middle of probably nowhere on this farm.

Now, Joan went by Joe and she grew up in the same county where they had their farm. And it was said that she led a very sheltered childhood. She and Howe began dating in high school. And it was during high school that Joe got pregnant with Michelle. And so the pair married just a few months after graduation. And you can imagine Gibbs, the family was not happy about this at all. They weren't happy about the pregnancy.

They weren't happy about the rushed marriage to the point where they would not allow Joe to even wear a wedding dress. Wow. So I think there was some shame there. That's what I'm reading into that. She wasn't even allowed to invite any of her friends to be part of the celebration. And then you talk about their honeymoon. All they had was staying at a small motel. in Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Now, for any listeners that took their honeymoon in Fort Wayne, Indiana, I'm apologizing for what I'm about to say. But Gibbs, that's not a honeymoon. Well? By most people's standards. Man, going to Fort Wayne for your honeymoon is like coming here to Dayton. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing there. There's nothing here.

You know, now I understand some people don't have the money to take a lavish trip, you know, Hawaii or wherever. but at least go to some town where there's actually something to see. Yeah. We've been to Fort Wayne, Indiana. I'm trying to think. And again, I'm not giving Fort Wayne a bad name. We're comparing it to where we live.

Yeah. Great, great little cities, but there's no huge attraction there. There's no, it's not a destination. If you want to take a short drive from here, I guess, go over to at least, what, Hershey? Yeah, Pennsylvania. At least there's something there. Something. But the reason while we're harping on this.

is not to make fun of Fort Wayne, Indiana, not to make fun of Dayton where we live, but it's to show what Hal and Joan were going through as they started their life together, right? So the pregnancy, which basically forced a quicker marriage than probably what they would have liked. I think they would have gotten married anyway, Gibbs. That's my assumption. But then also the fact that starting out, they had very little money. And this is kind of setting the stage for what is to come. Now, Hal and Joan would go on. They would have another daughter, Christy, and they made the best life that they could

living on their farm. And this family farm gives that they were living on was partly owned by Howell's brother John as well. And John lived in a trailer next to the family house. And he too worked on the farm. So this was a collaborative effort. among a lot of family members, you know, to keep this farm going, to build a life. But John would run into some trouble because he had a girlfriend that would report him to police

for a sexual assault that she claimed had been videotaped. And police would come, they would investigate her allegation. And when they did, they ended up finding pictures of Michelle Rogers. undressed and blindfolded. And it's going to come out, Gibbs, that Michelle was being sexually assaulted by her own Uncle John for two years. Right underneath the parents' nose. Right. Yeah, right. Somehow kept secret on this farm. Now, I think one of the ways it was kept secret is that John threatened her that if she said a word, he would kill her. Now, imagine, Imagine finding out as a husband, as a father that your own brother had betrayed you and had committed

this horrible act on your daughter. I'm getting pissed right now. No, that's just not right, man. I mean, none of it's right, no matter who it is, but your own family in your own backyard, man, if you can't trust family, who do you trust? No, I agree with you 100%. And I've said it on more than one occasion. It's the crimes committed by the people that you trust the most that to me are the most unimaginable. You don't expect that, right? This is your brother. You own the farm together. He's living right next door to you. You grew up with this guy. I try to keep faith in humanity, man, but stuff like this. Some of this shit makes it hard. It does. And you can just imagine Gibbs how this revelation coming out ripped this whole family apart.

So the uncle John, he gets convicted for the assault on his girlfriend, but they drop the charges about the molestation of Michelle because in the end, she does not want to have to get up and testify in court to what happened to her. Don't blame her. And yeah, you can't blame her because unless you've been in that position, there's no way that you could understand how hard that would be. to sit in a room on a stand and have to tell about some horrible acts that were committed against you. Yeah, those are things that you just don't want to relive, you know, let alone sit up on a stand in front of a bunch of people and look at your family right across from you, especially a family member that did it.

But let's take a minute to talk a little bit about the girls. Both girls were said to be very attractive. and Gibbs, we have pictures of them up on the Facebook page. Michelle had just finished her junior year at Crestview High. She was an average student, said to have been shy, but was also known to be kind of a free spirit as well. It would come out later, Gibbs, that Michelle would tell her friends in private that she was very lonely living out on that farm. She wanted more than that type of life.

You know, she wanted to go off to college. She wanted to experience things beyond this small little farm in this small town in the middle of Ohio. Part of that is she wanted to get away from her uncle. Get the heck out of Dodge. No, I agree. Get away from. Now, the situation is over. It's not happening at this point.

But she's still in the same environment. Essentially, probably reliving it in her head. Not that you would ever get it out of your. head. But I can, I can only imagine Gibbs that getting away, moving away to a different place would somehow help a little bit in separating it. And again, I'm speculating out of my wazoo because obviously I've never been in this position. I'm only talking about what I think could possibly benefit Michelle at this point in time. She's dating a boy named Jeff, you know, their boyfriend and girlfriend, and Jeff had given her his class ring, which, you know,

was kind of a big deal. Yeah. Back in those days. I mean, we're talking the late 80s here. I mean, that signified that you were committed in some form or fashion to each other. If I gave one of my rings to somebody, it was a commitment. Yeah. I mean, Gibby had, he ordered 25 class rings.

That was the problem. Wow. Because he wanted to have a lot of options. to give them out to... Now, you had to... I know you had to go to different towns. It couldn't all be in the same school, Gibbs. It's always good to have options.

And then we talk about Christy, the baby of the family, and she was described as very easygoing, very bubbly. We mentioned she was a cheerleader, and she had just completed the eighth grade. It was said Gibbs that Christy wanted to be like the goody-goody-goody, you know, do everything by the book. not break any rules type of person. Like me.

Just like you. Yeah. Very law abiding. Very. Besides the freaking thing around my ankle. Yeah. The ankle gives it away. But that's why you wear long pants.

That's right. But where we talked about Michelle being lonely and confiding in friends about that type of stuff, Christy was the opposite. I mean, she was always happy. She was the catcher on the softball team. She had this big teddy bear collection. She was just very bubbly. She was two or three years younger than Michelle.

So they're at different points in their life. And myself having girls that are similar in age, I get the fact that there are stages. So there's somewhat of maturity difference as well. Yeah. There definitely can be. Yeah. Now one fact that that I found interesting was it said that Christy always wore three bracelets it's on her wrist. And she was not happy that she was five foot one. She wanted to be taller.

And so what she would do, and this was not uncommon for the 80s Gibbs, you and I live through it. She would tease her hair up extra high because she wanted that, she wanted to make herself look taller. I just found that as an interesting fact. Kind of like how you tease your hair up. My one hair. Yeah. I try to get the one hair that I have to stand as tall as it will. I don't need to look taller. I just want to look like I have more hair. More hair. Yeah. And that spray stuff is not working, Gibbs. No, it's running down to your face, by the way. I know. I don't like it. But I just found that as an interesting story. I mean, it gives you some background into who these people were at this point in time. The other thing that was said about Christy was that she was very close to her dad. And like a lot of siblings do, the girl's fought a lot, but it was said that Michelle was very protective of her younger sister. And I think a lot of that Gibbs came out of what Michelle experienced. I think she was protective of Christy because she wanted to make sure that Christy never had to go through what she went through.

And I would agree. That would be something that somebody would do that went through what Christy went through, you just would be super protective of anybody that you love in your life that would be at risk. And Christy, being younger, I get that. Michelle is, even though they're fighting like sisters do, my two girls fight like crazy. Yeah. If push came to shove outside of the house, they would take up for each other. Right.

And I think that's what family does, right? Me and you fight, we're not family, but we fight like crazy sometimes. kick your ass every time. But if we were in the parking lot and some guy was smashing your head against the concrete, as could very well happen, I would jump in like Superman and protect you. At what point, though? After three or four blows at the most. Because you'd be like, yeah, he deserved that one.

Yeah, that's enough, buddy. I would only let it go three or four blows. Yeah. But I would definitely jump in. I think you want my nose to be kind of broken. I don't want you to be as good looking as you are. Is that what it is? Is that what you're trying to say?

without saying it. So all this background that we're giving Gibbs, it's setting up what is about to happen. So the family's living on this farm in small town, Ohio. So in May of 1989, Joe, Christy, and Michelle are getting ready to take a trip to Florida. They're going to go to Disney World, which is a huge trip. I mean, growing up, I made that trip with my parents. and when my kids were a certain age, I took them to Disney World from Ohio. And that's a big trip. It's a long trip. It's an exciting trip, though. And it's one of the reasons why we kind of harped on the fact of, you know, they lived on this farm.

Joan and Howe went to Fort Wayne on their honeymoon. They didn't have a lot of money. So I think this trip was a huge deal for them to the point where I don't think as a family they had ever left the state of Ohio. And that holds true for a lot of families out there, you know? I mean, people, especially if, you know, these were a farm family, that's not the easiest way to grow up anymore, you know, and I'd say anymore, but also back then. So it's not like you had a lot of money and to go to Disney World. Big deal.

Yeah. Well, and the other thing about, yeah, the other thing about being a farm family is you don't have vacation days. Yes. somebody has to take care of what needs to be done when you're away. Yeah, you don't have, you can't hire a temp to come in and do your work while you go to Disney World. Right. And this brings us to Howe because Hal as the father, he has to stay behind on the farm to make sure it stays afloat. Yeah.

There's just no other way around it. Got to be done. Now, Joe worked as a forklift operator. And so she would get time off. But Howe's got to stay home, like we said. They planned this vacation. They leave the farm, which was located in Van Wirt County. And they leave on May 26th, around 1 p.m.

for this week-long trip. And the trip itself was pretty uneventful. And they make a stop in Jacksonville, where they go to the zoo and they take pictures of all the animals. And these pictures are going to be found. Gibbs, and they're going to be a big deal for investigators later on. Now, after they left the zoo, they traveled to Silver Springs. I don't know if you've ever been to Silver Springs, Gibbs, but that's where you can take those bottom, what are they call them, glass bottom boat tours. Yeah. They did that. So at this point, Gibbs, this is starting out to be a really fun vacation for the

three of them. So then from Silver Springs, they would make their way down to Orlando to enjoy the magic of, of what we know is Disney World Gibbs. I mean, like we said, this is a great little vacation. And after having fun in Orlando, they would check out of their hotel in the early morning of June 1st and make their way to Tampa, checking into another hotel in Tampa around noon. And this June 1st date is important, Gibbs, because it's the last time that anyone would ever see Joan, Michelle, and Christy alive. And on June 4th, the bodies of Joan, Michelle, and Christy were found floating in the waters of Tampa Bay. Their hands and feet were bound. Their mouths were taped, but they were not blindfolded. And this is important fact, Gibbs, because it's going to come back around a little bit later,

because when the autopsies were performed, it showed clearly that all three had been tossed into the water while they were still alive. They had ropes tied around their necks. There was a concrete block attached to the rope, which would have weighed them down. Michelle was found with one hand free from her bonds. So we have to think about this, Gives. What a terrible way to die, being drowned. And this is why I specifically said they weren't blindfolded.

All three of them would have been able to see what was happening. to the others, and you have the mother who couldn't do anything to protect her children, it's unimaginable. Well, that's unimaginable. It's terrible. And even probably what occurred before he threw them in the water for a mom to watch had to be unimaginable too. If they were sexually assaulted to sit there and watch her daughters bound and tied,

why he did whatever he did to them based off of some of his history would have been a nightmare. Well, and we know they were found partially clothed. So I don't think it's much to make that leap. Right. And it just adds to the horror that must have been that day. Now, it did take a week to identify the bodies. Because you have a number of factors here, Gibbs. You have the decomposition.

You have the fact that how at some point alerts authorities that he can't get in touch with his family. And it's not until June 8th. And that's four days after they're found. that hotel management realizes that nobody's checked out of their hotel room. And so management calls the police. The police come in to investigate and they would ultimately be able to match up fingerprints found in the room with the three bodies. And they would also use some dental records to identify them as well.

Police also look into a couple of phone calls made from the hotel. Michelle made a phone call to her boyfriend Jeff back on June 1st, and there was another call placed to Bush Gardens, which is an amusement part. So police also find a lot of evidence inside that hotel room. They find suitcases, papers, clothing. And one thing that we kind of foreshadowed Gibbs is they find several canisters of film. And when they develop the pictures, this is, is where they are able to start kind of documenting the timeline, right? We talked about the zoo pictures in Jacksonville. We talked about Silver Springs. The last three pictures on the very last role of film was taken from the hotel that they were staying at. And one of the pictures was

of Michelle standing on the balcony. You could see Tampa Bay in the background. You could see palm trees and they were able to time this photograph as having been taken sometime between 6 and 8 p.m. on June 1st. They found keys that belonged to the Rogers family car and they would end up finding the car Gibbs parked at a boat ramp but it's what they would find in the car that would ultimately prove to be the most important. They find some stationary from the days in. They find a card with directions to the gateway in, which was in Orlando. That's where they stayed in Orlando. They find some notebook paper with handwriting on it, a key to their room, some brochures, some coupons, a Jacksonville's zoo receipt, and a road atlas. So a bunch of stuff in this car,

and they got to figure out what it all means. And for you, uh, under a certain age, a road atlas, what, what is an atlas? Yeah, what's a road atlas? That would be equal to, to your WayZ app, but on paper without live updates. I was going to say, I think equal to is a strong term because it doesn't do like a 20th of what the Wayzap does. And the most crucial piece of evidence that they found Gibbs was that days in stationary note because written on it was turn right, west on 60, two and one half miles before the bridge on the right side at light, blue with white.

And police were able to determine that this note was written by Joan Rogers. And it's going to be one of the big keys in this case because later in 1989, police get a very strong tip. Because they find out about a sexual assault of a Canadian woman, which happened in Madeira Beach. And this assault happened on May 15th, which. which was just a few weeks before the Rogers family was killed. And they interview this woman Gibbs. And she would say that she was on a boat and the boat had blue and white interior. And she would also go on to say that she was very convinced that the person that assaulted her was the same person who had killed the Rogers family.

So investigators are looking at the note they have. which clearly indicates blue with white. Now, they didn't know what that was at the time, but now they're putting it together with the information that they're getting from this sexual assault victim. And what she said was that she was with a friend and they met a man who drove a dark colored vehicle. She thought it was possibly a Jeep, maybe a Ford Bronco.

He was an older man who said his name was Dave Posno. He was very polite and he offered to take the women out on a sunset cruise. One of the women declined and the other decided to accept his invitation. And as they were out on the boat, this man sexually assaulted her and she told police that he only removed the clothing on the lower half of her body. And it was clear to them Gibbs that this was eerily similar to the circumstances surrounding the Rogers case. So I think Gibbs, investigators are definitely thinking that there's a possibility that

the Rogers may have accepted a ride for some type of boat crews. And this is how they met their ultimate fate just because these two incidents were so similar. But at this point, they don't have any evidence linking it to any one person. And so this case goes cold for about three. years. But police don't give up during this time. You know, they're holding press conferences. They're trying to get information out there. They're asking for help from the public. They even raise the reward money from $5,000 to $25,000. The case was featured on Unsolved Mysteries, Gibbs. I mean, it got a lot of exposure. All right, Gibbs. Let's take a quick minute to talk about our sponsor,

Audible. Audible has the best audio book performances, the largest library, and the most exclusive content. You'll really feel something when you listen. Learn more by going to audible.com slash true crime. And Gibbs, it's probably not too shocking that I am listening right now to an audible book about serial killers. And this one's called the serial killer books, 15 serial killers that shock the world. I just can't get enough, Gibbs. You know that. And our listeners can start a 30-day trial and get your first audible book for free. All you have to do is go audible.com slash true crime. That's audible, A-U-D-I-B-L-E dot com slash true crime. T-R-U-E-C-R-I-M-E. And we have to go back to the Clearwater brochure that was found in the vehicle.

Because police determined that the directions written on this brochure were not the handwriting of either Joan, Michelle, or Christy. And so they really started to focus on this brochure to the point where they decided to release a photo of the handwriting on large billboards around town hoping that someone from the public would be able to identify the handwriting. And gives from what I read, this was one of the first instances where billboards were used by police in this type of way. We just did a case last week on the Pynes unsolved murder and police used billboards in that one as well. But I think it's it's much more common nowadays.

But this was one of the very first cases where they would try that technique. And in this case, it works because a neighbor of a man named Oba Chandler comes forward to police recognizing the handwriting because she said that Oba Chandler had done some handiwork for her around the house. and they had filled out a contract. And she was able to fish out that contract, provided to police, and this is really what would kick off the Oba Chandler investigation. That's pretty amazing that somebody can identify handwriting that way.

Remember. Well, as a layperson. Right. Oh, yeah. I mean, there's obviously people that are trained to do that. Yeah, but as a layperson, to look at that and go, well, that looks like such and such. Let me pull my contract out.

Yep, that was it. Yeah. Well, there was, the other thing was, I think they put a composite sketch up. So I don't think it was just like she was driving by and saw the handwriting. I probably said that a little wrong. I got you. I think it was a combination of a composite sketch and the handwriting. She thought, you know what?

That sketch kind of reminds me of this guy. She saw the handwriting, went back, pulled out this contract and said, you know what? There might be something going on here. It's that guy. So eventually she does call the police and she has a lot of information to share with them because she says that Oba Chandler had a blue and white boat. He drove a dark colored SUV. He had lived at the time in a house along a canal which fed into Tampa Bay.

He moved away suddenly after the murders. And obviously the most important thing gives was that she knew his name and she gave it to police. Chandler. And now that they had two samples of handwriting, they were able to figure out that they were a match. The other thing they had was a palm print from the brochure. They were able to match that to Chandler as well. So he was arrested on September 24th, 1992. And it was said that at the time of his arrest Gibbs, he was very calm, didn't, you know, resist. Just basically asked him what they were charging him with. Now, we have to go back. to Oba's criminal history. He had had a lot of run-ins with police, right? He knew how to deal with the

police. He wasn't going to say anything. You know, they were grilling him. They wanted him to confess to these murders. And all he would say was that he wanted a lawyer. But at this point, Oba Chandler is only charged with the sexual assault of the Canadian woman at Madeira Beach. Police believe that he's responsible for the murders of Joan, Michelle, and Christy, but they don't have enough evidence. They have the handwriting, but it doesn't technically prove that he killed them. They've got to find something else to make this case airtight. And they end up talking to one of Oba Chandler's daughters. And she said that he made a surprise visit to her in Ohio back in 1989.

and he confided in her that he was on the run from authorities in Florida because he had sexually assaulted a woman and killed three other women. Well, that's pretty damning right there, Gibbs. Now, it's kind of hearsay evidence, right? It's not. Well, it's hearsay, but it makes you feel good that you're going down the right road. Oh, yeah, I think police know they're on the right road. They just, they still have to find that one or two things that are going to, you know, put the nail in. But not only did Chandler say this to his daughter, he also said the same thing to his daughter's husband, which is very strange to me. Why would you, number one, why would you do these horrible things? But if you did, why would you go around telling people about it?

And your son-in-law? So with the evidence they had, they decided to take it to a great. grand jury and the grand jury said that there was enough evidence to indict Chandler on three counts of first degree murder. But this trial is not going to happen for another two years. And so the state is going to spend that time gathering up as much evidence as they can. And the police would find more evidence in the form of phone calls made from Oba Chandler's boat during the time of both the sexual assault and then the subsequent assault and murder of Joan, Michelle, and Christy. But he's just a son of a bitch, man.

This guy is. Now, as the trial starts, he's adamant that he didn't kill these women. But what he does say is that he met them and had given them directions, but had nothing to do with the murders. They couldn't find anything to link this guy to the crime. And Chandler, absolutely. 100% insisted that, yes,

I met these ladies, I gave them directions, but I had nothing to do with that, that this was just a series of bad coincidences that led to fingers being pointed at him, but didn't lead

to proof beyond a reasonable doubt that this is the right guy. I don't know, Gibb, seems a lot more than just a series of weird circumstances. Yeah, I don't believe them. No, they've got some mounting evidence against him.

Now, when asked at trial why Chandler was on the boat so late, he said that that was his fishing time. And he also said that he had some issues with his boat that caused him to be out later than he normally would have been. And he tried to explain a way the calls made from his boat during these times as trying to get somebody to come out and help him with his boat issues. And one of the things that he would say would be very specific, and it was that he had a leak in the gas line of the boat.

And that's the issue he was trying to fix. And one of the things that he was doing to fix it was using duct tape. And this is where the prosecutors would blow Oba's defense out of the water, for lack of a better term because they're able to find an expert that can come in and examine the boat. And the expert concludes that there's no way that Oba Chandler could have fixed this boat the way that he said he did because the gas would have completely eaten through the duct tape. So I think they're showing to the jury Gibbs that this whole story is nothing more than that, Right. A made up story to try to say to people why he would have been out on the boat during that time.

But when prosecutors grill him about it, he turns to the I don't remember defense. The good old. I don't remember. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I cannot recall. That's your last resort, right? If you get backed into a corner, what else can you go with? I do not recall. I do not recall. I'm going to use that more often. You should. Sometimes it's real. for you. I do not recall. But the woman that Chandler sexually assaulted and lived is able to testify against him in court. And her testimony really showed how his pattern of attack on her was similar to what investigators knew happened to the Rogers family. And Gibbs, this woman didn't hold anything back in court. She told every detail down to the nth degree and it's so graphic that I don't even

want to go into it. That's how brutal it is. Now, people can find it online. Yes. And read it. The bravery of this woman to say the things that she said in court to try to put Oba Chandler away is amazing. because what she went through and the specifics and having to recall all of that had to have been very tough. Exactly. I would just say this. He did everything you can imagine and more. He did not leave anything out on how he attacked her sexually.

Yeah. And I think that's why I think it's good that you bring that point up, Gibbs. I don't want to read all of it. No. It's just too much. It's. Yeah. And the problem I have with it.

it is well and I feel for her. I'm glad she survived and I'm sure every day she has to relive that but she's also thankful that you know she's alive but I start to think about the oldest Rogers daughter Michelle she was 17 at the time 17 she just experienced two years of sexual assault by her own uncle now she is reliving a sexual assault nightmare and I am guessing that she had to sit there and watch her little sister go through it, as well as her mom. It's devastating for all of them, but to be a victim of sexual assault and then relive it with somebody different,

man, and then to watch your family go through it, it's just heartbreaking. Well, and FBI profilers and psychologists and all kinds of other doctors, they would come out and say that they believed that Oba Chandler really, I don't know if I want to say he got off on it, gives, I don't know what,

however, he enjoyed the experience of having his victims see what was happening to the others involved. And that's why he didn't blindfold them. He bound them, but he purposefully wanted them to have to watch what was happening to their other family members. It's all sick. That's just another level of. Yeah, this takes sickness to a whole other level.

Yeah. Because what you're doing is bad enough, but to get your jollies on wanting a mother to have to witness that, man, all right. I got to stop talking about it. Yeah, I'm nauseated, man. Yeah. But it's important, I guess, to say some of this to show the level of depravity of Obachan. I agree. Without trying to go into too many details.

And you and I love details. There was another important witness for the prosecution Gibbs. And this was a housekeeper from the hotel that the Rogers family was staying at. And she testified that on June 1st, the day that police believed that they were murdered, she was walking towards their hotel room and passed Oba Chandler. Now, obviously at the time, that couldn't have meant anything to her. but what a strong piece of evidence that is during the trial. And it had to hit home hard with jurors putting Oba Chandler at the hotel near the family's hotel room on that very day.

And when the trial was all said and done, Oba Chandler was found guilty on three counts of murder. He was handed down a death sentence for each count on November 4th, 1994. Now, he kept maintaining his innocence. He kept appealing after this conviction. But at some point, he did admit to the sexual assault of the woman from Canada that testified against him. But because he already had three death sentences, they felt like it really wasn't in anybody's best interest to try him for that. What they should have did was allow her to visit him in his cell while he was bound. himself and give her a little razor blade and just let her slowly sliver away parts of his penis boy you're a sick son of a bitch no i get you yeah i thought you were gonna say like maybe kick him in the nuts or really you're really going all out i am he's a sick bastard no no he really is now Gibbs we haven't talked much about how Rogers except in the very beginning but how Rogers

along with his brother John, they were suspected of this crime in the beginning. John was eliminated pretty quickly because he was in jail for the sexual assault of his girlfriend, like we mentioned, but there was speculation that John could have possibly been involved in helping to plan the murders before he actually went to jail. And Hal was looked at as a possible suspect because he posted the bail for his brother

John, even though Gibbs, we talked about it, he knew that his brother had sexually molested his daughter Michelle for two years. Now, I'm telling you right now, brother, if I have a family member where I found out that they did something like that, I'm not blaming how in this situation. I'm talking about my own personal thing here. I'm not lifting a finger to help that person. No. And during the investigation of how, police found out that he had taken $7,000 from the bank account after the murders. And when questioned, Hal said that he took it out to use the money to help find his family. But I think Gibbs, it was pretty easy for police to prove that Hal had never left Ohio

during the time that his family was on their trip. And so ultimately he has ruled out. But that's the part that I have a hard time imagining as well, a father who at first, your whole family's gone missing. Eventually, you find out that they were murdered in a very brutal way. And you're being questioned by the police and looked at as a possible suspect. Well, the police ascertained pretty quickly that Howe was seen on the farm the day of the murder and the day after and that it would have been very, very difficult if I think impossible with flight schedules. to get down to Tampa Bay to do that. But they had to consider the possibility that he had hired someone.

There was a question of Hal Rogers taking some money out of the bank, approximately $7,000. And we were wondering where the money was. Because that's suspicious. That's what you've got to at least consider as they took out the money really to hire somebody. And Hal, as I recall, he had $1,000 in his pocket, and he had $6,000 in the glove compartment. I basically got gaps where I don't remember a year or so in there at all. I think I do, but I don't really think I do. You ain't real sure if it's real or not.

The biggest thing is, I had real good friends. If I didn't feel like staying home, I'd just go over there and go in and lay down on the couch and go to sleep. They didn't think nothing about it. They didn't worry about it. It's just one day at a time. One day's too much. You go by hour by hour. If that's too much, you just figure, well, I'll get through the next five minutes and go on from there.

So that's Hal Rogers talking in an interview, you know, much later. But it kind of gives you an insight as to his mindset of how am I going to get through this tragedy? Yeah, man, tough. He talks Gibbs about day by day, then down to hour by hour. And you hear him say, how am I going to get through the next five minutes? Yeah. How am I going to survive the next five minutes? That's rough.

Yeah. Very rough. I understand. Well, I understand what he's saying. Yes. I don't understand. We can't actually understand not having gone through it. So Chandler sent to wait out his execution, his wife files for divorce right after he's convicted,

and he's barred from having any contact at all with his youngest daughter. I mean, they don't even allow any photos of his youngest daughter to come into the prison. So police have wrapped up the investigative. the conviction of Oba Chandler for Joan, Michelle, and Christy. But now they're looking at Oba Chandler thinking, who else may he have killed? Right. They're thinking, could this really be the first time that he murdered someone? Now, he was a suspect in another murder of a woman by the name of Amy Hearst from 82 all the way up to 2011.

But eventually her husband ended up being charged with the murder. And on October 10th, 2011, Chandler's death warrant was signed. And they set his execution date for November 15th. There were a few more appeals filed, but his convictions were upheld. And on the day of November 15th, Chandler had his final meal. And it consisted of two salami sandwiches, one peanut butter sandwich. and iced tea. It's not what I would pick Gibbs, but.

Yeah, I mean, I'm glad he didn't get a filet mignon. Yeah. You know. Yeah, you and I have talked about that before where it kind of makes you sick when, now, I know they're getting ready to be put to death, but to think. Those girls didn't get a final meal. Exactly. They didn't get any choices.

And now we're saying, hey, pick what you want to eat and it's filet mignon and this and that. And yeah, that. Now, I know they've cracked down on that. a lot and I'm glad they have. Chandler was given a lethal injection and pronounced dead at 4.25 p.m. on November 15th. Just before 4.30 this afternoon, the state of Florida executed convicted killer Oba Chandler. Volunteer executioners administered a lethal injection ending his life for killing a mother and her two daughters. Oba Chandler had a chance to repent or apologize or plead for mercy, But he didn't. Instead, he left only a handwritten note to be read by the Department of Corrections.

His last statement is, you are killing a innocent man today. Ova Chandler. Chandler showed the same defiance at his trial 17 years ago. The horrific details of how Joan Rogers and her daughter's Michelle and Christie were lured onto his sailboat, then tied up, assaulted, and one by one thrown into Tampa Bay to drown never seemed to bother Chandler. Even his attorney found him a hard person to like or understand. Maybe I failed Chandler, you know, maybe I failed him in that regard, but somebody had to try. Do you think he's guilty? I have no clue.

For the anti-death penalty protesters on hand, guilt or innocence wasn't the issue. We're against it. We feel it's wrong. You know, two wrongs don't make it right. But Oba Chandler committed more than one wrong, destroying the Rogers family and his own. Though she wasn't allowed to witness the execution, a woman claiming to be one of Chandler's eight children came to the prison to find some kind of closure for herself. What he did and who he was does not affect me and who I am today and who I'm going to be tomorrow. Did you believe he did this? Yes, I do. And there's no doubt in the mind of Hal Rogers, the Midwestern farmer whose wife and two daughters never returned from their Tampa vacation.

Rogers witnessed the death of Oprah Chandler, but let his niece do the talking today. And we are grateful that they were brought back home to us. Now is the time for peace. So a couple of things from that clip, Gibbs, that we didn't mention up front was the fact that Oba Chandler had a lot of kids. And you heard from one of his daughters basically saying that she believed he did it. Apparently another one of his daughters came out and said that she thought he was innocent. So there was some disagreement among the family or at least his children as to whether he was

innocent or guilty. I don't know how you can see it any other way. I don't either. And the fact that, you know, he doesn't even make a statement. You know you're going to die. And the only thing that you can do is right on a piece of paper, you're killing an innocent man. I mean, if you listen to the survivor's story about what occurred on that boat when she was sexually assaulted and what he said to her if she did not do what he asked, it's What happened to them? It's just too much in common. Yeah. Those two cases are mirror images of each other with the exception that he didn't murder that first victim. Right. Other than that, and I think he would have if things may have gone

differently. Right. In that one. But you have Hal Rogers attending the execution. I don't know why I would expect Oba Chandler to do anything different. But for some reason, I think, okay, you know you're about to die. And not that would it mean anything to Hal Rogers if he came out and he said, I'm sorry. I don't know that it would. Probably not. But a monster like that, I guess you just can't expect anything different. But it was his time the man up. It could have been. Yeah. I mean, no, you're right. It was his opportunity to take responsibility. And like the chicken shit that he was, he wasn't willing to take it. What me. I'm innocent.

And normally that is right where we would end the story. So we have to talk about a woman named Evalice Berrios Begarisi. And she was found murdered back on November 27th, 1990 in Coral Springs, Florida. She was sexually assaulted and strangled. And her murder went unsolved for 23 years until Oba Chandler was. finally linked to her through DNA in 2014. DNA, don't lie. No, DNA, it'll get you.

Now, back in 1990, they had all the evidence, but DNA wasn't at the point where the technology would allow investigators to put the pieces together. And we've talked about this Gibbs. The databases weren't connected. There were so many reasons why some of these cold cases were hard to solve, but by 1994, Chandler had his DNA in the system. But they hadn't worked up a DNA profile for Begarisi yet.

So that's why it took him so long to solve it. Now, she had been working at a place in Sawgrass Mills for less than a month when she disappeared after work on November 26, 1990. At that point in time, Oba Chandler lived about a mile away from this mall where she was working. She left the mall around 10 p.m. Co-workers saw her get into her car as they were getting into theirs. I've been at that mall around that time. Oh shit, Gibbs. Have you? Yeah. No very well. So now we're back to suspect corner. We haven't had one in a while. Oh, no, nothing. None of this one. Oh. Yeah. There's no way. There's no way because DNA. We got DNA. DNA. DNA. You're safe.

But she leaves the mall, and this was the last time that she was seen alive. Her husband, after her not coming home, goes to the mall, finds her car in the parking lot. Two tires are slashed on the passenger side, and he quickly calls police. Her body was found quickly, 1 a.m. in the morning, ligature marks on her wrist and ankles, and there was packing tape stuck in her hair. So in 2014, cold case investigators decided to run the DNA evidence back through the system again. And this is when it came back connected to Oba Chandler. After nearly a quarter century, Coral Springs Police have solved a cold case murder.

This week, police announced that retested DNA evidence identified Oba Chandler as the killer in the November 1990 slaying of 20-year-old Ivelis Berrios Baguersi, However, Chandler is no longer alive. He was executed in 2011 for three unrelated Florida murders from 1989. It was just after midnight on November 27th of 1990 when two men returning from a fishing trip discovered Bagueres' lifeless body on a Coral Springs street. Now, of course, he's dead at this point, but if he had been alive, they would have charged him with the murder. And there's a whole bunch of other cases that police think Chandler may have been connected to.

There's a woman named Terry Ann Gilchrist who was murdered back in 1990. She was found strangled on the side of the road by a motorist. There's not a lot of details out there about this one. It's still an open investigation. But some of the aspects are very similar. So in wrapping this up, Gibbs, Oba Chandler is a monster. you know, there are things that, like we said, we left out of this episode as a personal decision because some of the details were things that we didn't even want to talk about.

And we talk about some nasty shit. So that should give you an idea of what Oba Chandler did. I mean, go back to Arthur Shawcross. We talked about a lot of horrible things. And some of this stuff was so bad that you and I just didn't want to, we don't want to get too far in the weeds on it. But I think about Joan, I think about Michelle and Christy, and what it must have been like for them on that boat. It's one of the most horrible things that I think we've talked about, Gibbs, just from the standpoint of them having to witness

what happened to each other. That part really, really gets to me. And I think we'll stay with me for quite some time. It was a rough one. And I wouldn't be surprised. over the years to come, Gibbs, if DNA doesn't link Oba Chandler to some other stuff. I just can't imagine that a monster like this didn't do more things because we're talking about pre-1990 and how many cold cases are sitting out there with evidence that could possibly tie people that either the evidence has been was degraded. It's not at the point. But, you know, technology continues to get better and better. So they're going to be solving more and more of these cases.

I would not be surprised if Oba Chandler's name does not come up again. All right, Gibbs, we've got a voicemail. Let's play that. Mike and the tips. What's up, guys? This is Trevor from up in Portland, Oregon. Just wanted to say, thank you for all your hard work and effort you put into the show. Definitely my favorite podcast.

I get so involved into the podcast. I get so into it that I work overnight in a store by myself. I have to keep looking over my shoulder to make sure, you know, BTK or Israel Keys isn't right behind me with the hands. So I just want to say, thanks for all you guys do and, you know, keep your own time of ticking. Oh, he went keep your own time a ticking. I like that. It's a little spin.

So he's working in a store alone, Gibbs, worried about Israel Keys, worried about BTK type people. but this is one that I had to listen to three or four times because in the beginning, initially I just thought he said Gibster, but I swear it sounds like he said Tootster or Twister or something like that. Yeah. So I don't know if that was just a blip in the recording software or what or or he's come up with the new nickname for you. Another nickname.

Which is what you need. You don't have enough nicknames. All right, Gibbs. So that is another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.