True Crime All The Time - Oscar Pistorius

Episode Date: October 9, 2023

Oscar Pistorius was a famous athlete who inspired millions because he was the first amputee to compete in an Olympic track event. Less than a year after competing in the London Olympics, he was arrested and charged with the murder of his girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp. Oscar claimed he mistook Reeva for an intruder that night, but prosecutors believed the shooting resulted from an argument between the two. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the case against Oscar Pistorius. There was only one person left alive that night to tell their side of the story: Oscar. But the police didn't believe his story, and he changed the details of it several times. The case caused a media firestorm, and to this day, there are people who have differing opinions on what happened that night. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation information.An Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 353 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson, give you. How are you? Hey man, I'm doing okay. How about you? Just okay? Rough last couple days.

Yeah. Aside of that, you know, I'm doing good. Yeah, you did. Yeah, you did. And so that does make some sense. I've actually had a pretty good week. That's good. You know, feeling good.

Looking good. Trying to eat healthier, you know. I'm trying. It's so hard for me, dude. You know how much I love food. You look taller. I have been using my teeter. So I've been stretching myself upside down.

Okay. I didn't know if I was that or the platform shoes you had on. Well, it's those two. Yeah. Well, I got a kiss cover band thing later. Is that what it is? Yeah, going on.

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Lou Lamborn. What's going on, Lamborn? Janice. Hey, Janice. Stacey Simmons. I appreciate that. Stacey.

Michelle Durs. Hey, Michelle. Jamsy Shidell. Well, thank you so much, Jamesy. Catherine Tanner. Hey, there's Catherine. Lingle. Well, Lingle, if you want to mingle.

I guess. I don't know. Candy Montoya. What's going on, Candy? Jackie Rose. Hey, Rose. Karina You. What's going on?

You. James Grantham. Hey, James. Amber Dunham. What's happening in Amber? And Lye Ann jumped out at our highest level. Well, thanks, Lye. Yeah, so we appreciate the new support.

And then if we go back into the vault, this week, we'll, selected Nathaniel Hobbs. What's going on, Hobbs? Yeah. Appreciate the long-term support as well. And then we had a great PayPal donation from Michelle McCann. Look at you, Michelle. Thank you. So we just got done during our Patreon video. And somebody new to Patreon the other day said, oh my gosh, I didn't know you guys did videos. So they said, we didn't know what you look like. And so she has a bunch of videos to watch. She's like, let me go back and look. Oh, yeah. But we had a lot of fun. You actually came.

to the studio with some trivia. I did. And a lot of it was office trivia. And I thought it was pretty fun. Yeah. You did pretty good. Yeah. I knew the office fairly well.

Yeah. Right now we have an episode out on True Crime All the Time Unsolved where we're talking about the disappearance of 14 year old Max DeVries. And he went missing on a family vacation to Aruba in 2004. And there's a lot of fascinating angles. Right. to this case. I think you talked about it on Patreon. This was what a year before Natalie Holloway disappeared. But her case got so much more attention. It did a lot more than his did. And,

you know, his family believes that there was foul play involved. Officials have kind of said, well, we don't know. We're just calling it lost at sea. So check that out. It's a good episode. Absolutely. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I'm ready. This is one that I've been. wanting to do for, you know, quite a while because, you know, Oscar Pistorius was a famous athlete. He was. He inspired millions of people. He was the first amputee to compete in an Olympic track event. And I actually remember that. And the feeling that I got seeing this guy doing what he was doing was amazing. But less than a year after competing in the London Olympics, he was arrested and charged with the murder of his

girlfriend, Riva Steencamp, Oscar claimed he mistook Riva for an intruder that night, but prosecutors believed the shooting resulted from an argument between the two. Yeah. And, you know, this is one of those cases. And I think I mentioned it on Patreon. There was only one person left a lot to tell their story. Riva's story, as we'll get into, could only be told through messages and friends and then really the forensics. What did that tell of what occurred that night? And we'll get into

all of it. I remember that whole case, watching it on TV. Yeah, it's fascinating. Yeah, very fascinating. Oscar Leonard Carl Pistorius was born on November 22nd, 1986, and Johannesburg, South Africa. Oscar was the middle of three children, just like yourself. His parents are Hink and Sheila Pistorius. According to biography.com, Oscar came from a prominent family who lived a middle class lifestyle. So there's two things there that I want to get your opinion on. Number one, what does prominent mean? Well known, well liked, influential. Could mean all three of those.

Could be. Yeah. But then, you know, it's saying a middle class lifestyle. Well, what really is a middle class lifestyle? And I think different people would give that a different definition maybe. Yeah, I think so. I think it depends on that, on the person. Right.

What do they consider middle class or whatever? Because you got middle class, upper middle class. Upper, upper, upper. Yeah. You know, do you eat your sandwich with the crust or without the crust? I don't know. Do you get gray coupon or not? Because all of that stuff factors in.

And do you cut your snickers with a knife? Knife and four. Yeah. Before he was arrested for murder, Oscar was known by his nickname Blade Runner, because, you know, as we said, he was a track and field athlete with both legs amputated below the knee. Oscar was born without a fibula bone in both his lower legs. His legs were amputated when he was only 11 months old. Just six months later, he learned how to walk using fiberglass pegs. And that on its own is amazing.

I think it would be so difficult to adjust. to something like that. Well, but how much is he really adjusting when his legs are amputated to 11 months old? I mean, most kids start walking somewhere between what? Maybe nine months and some take a little longer, maybe some a little earlier, depending on how. I know you were walking at like two months. Well, I walked before that.

I walked right out of my mom's room. Mike, I'm here. All right. I can't. I'm not going to get that picture. you're out of my head. Sorry, Mom. If you, so wrong. But, you know, whether there was an adjustment or not, six months later, you know, he's not even a year and a half old. And he's walking with the use of these fiberglass pegs. You'd have to say it's pretty amazing. Yeah, I think so.

You know, in the balance that would take, you know. Oscar grew up in a highly athletic family. In fact, he got his first set of dumbbells when he was four years old. The family went on hikes and bike rides a lot. And Oscar had to do gymnastics to get his weekly allowance. By the age of six, Oscar was participating in tennis, cricket, and wrestling. Well,

it does sound like it's a very athletic family. Well, if you have to do some sports related stuff just to get your allowance, yeah. Some of us have to, like, clean to get our allowance. But not why others say, hey,

go out and give me 100 pushups and 100 situps and you can have your allowance. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Oscar wrote, his 2008 autobiography. My brother and my sister and I were brought up with one iron rule. No one was allowed to say I can't. And obviously what we're going to talk about in regards to Oscars is horrible. The events that transpired and all that. But at one time, you know, this guy was seen as this

inspirational figure by millions and millions of people. Yeah. And a premier athlete. But I like that rule. Yeah. Can't say I can't. You say that all the time. That I can't. Well, I mean, I like that rule for other people. Oh, okay. Yeah. Other people should. Is this the do what I say, not what I do type of do? Hink and Sheila divorced when Oscar was six years old, which caused him to have a strained relationship with his father.

Sheila died when Oscar was 15 due to drug complications after a hysteractomy. You know, divorce is tough. You and I have talked about it. a number of times. Is it uncommon for a child to, you know, pick a favorite or have animosity towards one or maybe both of their parents? And I don't think it is. Oscar did water, polo and rugby as a teenager in 2003.

He suffered a knee injury that forced him to stop playing these sports. At the age of 16, he started running to rehabilitate his knee. He became a successful track and field athlete. less than a year later. So, I mean, you have to, you know, kind of take a look at all of these things and put them into perspective, right? Number one, he's playing a ton of different sports, sports that you and I didn't really play or they weren't available around here.

He's in South Africa. So, you know, cricket, very popular. Sure. Rugby, things like that, sports that we knew really nothing about. I didn't know what rugby was until they started carrying it on ESP. you're like, oh, that's pretty cool. I don't want to do it because some of these guys are getting the, you know what, kicked out.

I think each and every one of them, by the time they hit that level on ESPN, they've all had their nose broken at least two, three times. Yeah, and like combined on a team, they only have like four teeth. So that was not for me. But then you have to think about, so he starts running just to rehabilitate his knee and less than a year later, he's really, really good. in January 2004, Oscar competed in his first 100 meter race

at the 2004 Athens Paralympics. He won the 200 meter race. I used to run the 200 meter. Didn't make it to the Olympics. In a competitive sense, or like you were trying to get away from someone? Both. Both, okay.

So pretty quickly, you know, European race organizers were inviting him to compete in their events. And that's when Oscar, you know, earned that nickname, the Blade Runner and fastest man on no legs. In July 2007, Oscar participated in his first competition against able-bodied athletes. And this got the attention of the International Association of Athletics Federations. And Oscar was asked to participate in testing because this was a big deal, right?

On the surface, you would think this man's running. with no legs. Right. Now he's got prosthetic implements. Yes. Then it turns into people saying, well, he's so fast, are these giving him an advantage? And is that fair? And is that fair? So he goes from, you know, the Paralympics to competing against able-bodied people to them claiming he has an unfair advantage. Right. How strange is that? Very strange. In January 2008, the IAAF counsel banned Oscar from participating in competitions with able-bodied athletes. They claimed that his prosthetic legs gave him an advantage because he didn't have to expend as much energy as able-bodied athletes running at the same speed. And I don't know if that's true or not.

I don't know how they did the testing. I don't know if there was testing or they just said, hey, we think this is an unfair advantage. It doesn't seem to me like it would be, but I guess I kind of understand their thinking on it, but... Yeah, I'm torn, you know, between the two. I can see both sides. I don't know how you would test it, though. I don't know how you could do that either.

So did they really test it or did they just come up with this kind of willy-nilly? In May 2008, the court of arbitration for sport revoked the decision. That summer, Oscar participated in the Beijing Paralympics and won three gold medals in the 100, 200, 400 meter races. So obviously, he was very successful, right? And we're going to talk about him going to the Olympics later on. And my thought is, anytime you're very successful, you are going to have people who are claiming that you're doing something that you shouldn't be, that you're getting a, unfair advantage in some way, shape or form, whether that's doping or, you know, for him, the use of these prosthetic let.

Yeah. You can there's, that can be the only reason why you're beating me, you know. Now, sometimes some of those things turn out to be true in the case of a lot of track and field runners in the day. We've seen them get busted for, you know, steroids and, and all kinds of different things. Yeah. I mean, people just, uh, you never know. I mean, when I was doing the arm wrestling championship, you know, when I was winning,

they were accusing me of stuff. And all it was was was a can of spinach. Just one can of spinach before the event took care of it. That's all I needed. But Oscar's athletic success was interspersed by problems in his personal life and interactions with law enforcement. He suffered a head injury, two broken ribs and facial lacerations. After a February 2009 boating accident, empty bottles of alcohol.

were found on the boat. Okay. That's never going to be good. No. You shouldn't drink and drive. You shouldn't drink in boat. Never. Media outlets reported that a police spokeswoman said they were investigating the possibility that alcohol played a role in the crash.

But the next day, she said she was misquoted. And the police could not confirm Oscar was the driver. A negligent driving charge against Oscar was dropped. Was that because who he was? or because he actually wasn't on driving? Or was that because there's a big difference between a car accident and a boat accident? You got four people in the car and you, you know, hit a tree. Could you potentially, you know, switch places and say that one person, another person was driving?

But either way, it's pretty hard to say we can't tell out of the four who was driving. Right. But if you're on a boat, there's no seatbelt. No. Everybody's probably thrown around. Nobody admits that they were driving. How are you going to prove it? Yeah. If you don't have film video or something, right? Yeah. You're probably not going to be able to. In September 2009, Oscar was arrested for allegedly slamming a door on a woman at a party. The alleged victim, Cassidy Taylor, memory was a friend of his girlfriend at the time. He wasn't prosecuted, but there was a civil case in the years that followed. Oscar won gold medals in the 2011 Paralympic World Cup. So obviously he had recovered from his injuries and was in, I guess, great form because he won gold medals by that time. He participated in the 4x400 relay at the 2011 International Association of Athletics World Championships. He earned a civil medal, making him the first Paralympian to win a medal in open competition.

Oh, impressive. It is, and it was a big deal. And when we talk about him, you know, being in the Olympics, it was a big deal. You remember the coverage. There was a ton of coverage on Oscar Pistorius because what he was doing was monumental, sure, in the eyes of so many people. In 2011, Oscar was the 22nd fastest 400 meter runner in the world. So you can say 22nd. It doesn't sound that great.

But when you think about how many people are in the world. Right. Pretty impressive. That's pretty impressive. Now, I don't know how many people actually consider themselves to be 400 meter runners, but I'm sure it's a pretty large number. So anytime you're 22nd in the world than anything, you're at the highest level. Yeah.

And that's a tough race because it's a sprint over a pretty good distance. Yeah. I mean, for us here in the States, it's one time around one lap. And that's just, you gotta have that second wind in you, you know, towards the end to push yourself through. His times didn't qualify him for the 2012, South African Olympic team, but he was chosen to race in the individual 400 meters and 4 by 400 meter relay. So I don't know everything about how he was chosen or why he was chosen, but what resulted? that Oscar Pistorius was the first amputee to compete in an Olympic track event at the 2012 Olympics. He said after the race, it's just an unbelievable experience. I found myself smiling on

the starting blocks, which is very rare. It was probably a dream for him. I finally coming true. You think about these Olympic athletes who worked their entire life to just try to make the team. And then, you know, the races take how long? And then it's over. You know, I think about that a lot. It's not like LeBron James, who worked his rear end off, but has played 20. I think he's going into his 21st year in the NBA already. The Olympics is so much different.

You know, you work for four years sometimes to run one race or to swim a couple of races. And that's it. And that's it. In the years before his arrest, Oscar was a famous and wealthy athlete. He was featured in magazines like Time, GQ, and people. He owned luxury cars, multiple homes, a stable full of horses, and even owned two white tigers. He signed deals with Nike, Oakley, sunglasses, and a French designer worth more than $2 million a year. And, you know, let's face it, these Olympic athletes, that's what they're hoping for.

You're not being paid $35 million a year, like a basketball player or a baseball player or whatever it is. You think about a Mary Lou Redden who had that unbelievable Olympics and then was on everything. Weedies and, you know, commercials and then that's where they're going to make their money. Yeah. You know, it was something also go like me when I was running. I did it because I wanted to have the record. Yeah. I just never got there.

After the London Olympics, Oscar allegedly got in. into an argument with the TV producer about one of his exes. And he threatened to break the man's legs. He's got a little bit of a temper, sounds like. And I think that's why it's important to kind of interspers his athletic success. And, you know, he's on the cover of these magazines. He's doing commercials. He is idolized by a lot of people.

But behind the scenes, right? He's having issues. Right. The boat accident. possible drinking and driving. Now he's threatening this man. I'm going to break your legs. The producer's friend told the star newspaper that Oscar is a different man from the image out there. He carries a gun everywhere and I've seen him be controlling to women. And how many times will we talked about this? What is the difference between the image you put out to people and who you really

are when no one is watching or the cameras aren't on or you're not at work. And a lot of times, those are two very different people. Sure. Some people know how to put it on to make, you know, the fans happy. But yeah, you have to. You can't be an asshole. Right. If you're this big time celebrity. Now, you know, you look at Johnny Depp. Okay. What came out during that trial. A lot of people were supporting him and kind of bashing Amber Hurd. Right. When, when some of the details came out,

but not everything that came out about him was great. No, no. There were some things that came out that, that were very un Jack Sparrow-like. Right, right, right.

But I think that's what we sometimes forget, these people on the screen or these athletes that we watch, they're human beings. They're going to do stuff that is far different from their Nike commercial. image or whatever it may be. Mark Batchelor, a soccer player who socialized with Oscar, told CNN that Oscar was quick to become angry and fight and he caused a lot of problems. So I think back to your point, I think he definitely had a temper.

Oscar once wanted to fight him because he thought his girlfriend was cheating with him. Bachelor also said that Oscar carried a gun almost everywhere and that he applied to become a gun collector so he could own more than the four types of firearms permitted for South African citizens. And no doubt all of this is important because of what is ultimately going to happen and it involves the shooting of a firearm. In November 2012, Oscar started a relationship with Riva Steencamp, a 29-year-old model. Oscar's ex-girlfriend Samantha Taylor would later testify that they started dating in 2011 when she was 17 years old and that they broke up because he cheated on her with Riva Steam Camp. And no doubt, Oscar and Riva were a celebrity couple. She was a presenter for South

Africa's fashion TV, a cover girl for the men's magazine FHM and the face of Avon. Riva had also graduated law school and participated in a reality TV show called Tropica Island of Treasure. The show aired three days after she was killed. So he was a celebrity, no doubt, because of his athletic success, she was a celebrity. You know, she was on TV. She was a model. Very popular. Very popular.

Both of them. And it seemed as though the two were happy together. Riva often posted pictures of them together on social media. But as we've always said, right, looks can be very deceiving. In some of her private messages, she accused Oscar of Baxter of Baxter. being overly jealous and overbearing. Oscar would respond that he loved her and was planning his life with her. And I'll make the same argument about social media that I make about, you know, the face

that you put on at work. People are usually pretty careful if you're, especially celebrities, about what they put on social media, you know, hey, we're smiling, we're having fun. We're on vacation. It's not a post that we just got into a. a huge argument and he threw me across the room. Now, that may be happening behind the scenes. And we know it does the many relationships. But you're right, right? There's probably a publicist saying, let's not put that out there or just individuals saying, I'm not going to put that out there.

Right. Because I look I could ask. I don't, I don't want people to think badly about me or my boyfriend or whatever this situation may be. Oscar almost got in trouble with the police in January 2013 when he accidentally discharged a gun while out at a restaurant with some friends. The bullet landed on the floor just centimeters away from another friend's foot. Everyone denied knowing what happened when the restaurant manager came to the table to see what was going on and the police were not called because no one else came forward. Now, to me, this is very troubled. I understand that if you can do it legally, some people carry a gun.

Sure. but to discharge it in a restaurant means you have to have you had to have had it out or something. If it's in a holster, I don't know how it goes off. Yeah, you're not being responsible. No. Right. So that, that's a scary thing just in and of itself. Now, the fact that nobody got hurt is good, but somebody easily could have been killed.

In February 2013, Riva spoke out on Instagram about the rape. and mutilation of a 17-year-old girl that occurred that month, she encouraged her followers to wear black on February 15th to protest violence against women. But Riva became a victim of violence herself. On February 14, 2013, Oscar Pistorius fatally shot Riva Steen Camp inside his home in a gated community near Pretoria, South Africa. Riva was shot in the head, arm, and hip. Oscar told the police he mistook her for an intruder hiding in his bathroom.

He insisted that the shooting was an accident. And this was such a big story. It was huge. You remember it. Everybody remembers it. According to NBC, Oscar later testified that when he found Riva in the bathroom, he said, I could feel her blood was running down on me. I could see that her arm was broken.

Riva was still alive for a short time, but struggling to breathe, Oscar put her on the floor and tried to use her phone. But it had a passcode. He ran to his bedroom to get his cell phone and called a neighbor at 319 a.m. He then called his community's security office and called emergency services a few minutes later. Makes you wonder. And I know we'll probably talk about it. Why not call emergency services first?

Well, and we will talk about it because there are conflicting reports of the timings of these calls and even the order. Neighbors told the police they saw the lights on and heard what sounded like fighting. The police didn't believe Oscar's story and he was arrested. And on the 15th of February, Oscar was formally charged with murder. On the 19th, at a hearing before the magistrate court in Pretoria, Oscar admitted to accidentally shooting Riva. He again claimed that he mistook her for an intruder and shot her through a locked

bathroom door. He was charged with premeditated murder, which meant that he was facing a potential life sentence. But Oscar was granted bail on February 22nd. And we're going to get into all the details of the shooting and all that because that's what most people find fascinating about this case. For sure. What he claims happen versus, you know, what the evidence kind of shows or what the authorities believe happened. In late 2013, Oscar settled with Cassidy Taylor Memory, whom he allegedly assaulted in 2009. His lawyers advised him he couldn't be involved in both a civil and criminal legal case at the same time.

So that's why he settled. Yeah. And you could see where a lawyer would say that. Hey, you're about ready to go on trial for murder. You can't have this civil trial or civil case hanging over your head. Yeah. Are you pushing this young woman? into a door.

Let's just get that out of the way before we get to this murder trial. Oscar's trial started on March 3rd, 2014. And one of the things that I found very interesting, Gibbs, is that South Africa doesn't have jury trials. The judge had two assessors who helped her with the case. So here in the United States, one of the things or one of the rights you have is to have a trial by a jury of your peers. Yeah.

So that apparently does not exist in South Africa. Oscar pleaded not guilty to murder and three firearms charges. His defense claimed that he was scared because he heard noise coming from the bathroom, which he thought was an intruder. They argued he was in an especially vulnerable state because he was not wearing his prosthetic leg. And this was a big part of the trial, right? He's not going to sleep with. the prosthetic legs on, you wouldn't think. And now we know he didn't, right? Or at least wasn't that night.

And I can't imagine that he probably ever did. But it's a key point of his defense. I was vulnerable. I was scared because I didn't have my prosthetic legs on. What was I going to do? Now, we'll get into whether that makes sense or not. Yeah. As we go along. Yeah, because you think, well, but you had a gun. Yes. So if somebody came at you, you, you could. have shot them. Another question is going to be, why did you think the intruder was in the bathroom? Right. What are they stealing in the bathroom? So we'll get into all that. Prosecutors argued that Oscar and Riva got into an argument that night. And that was why she locked herself in the bathroom. Oscar's neighbor, Michelle Berger, testified that she heard a woman's blood-curdling scream on February 14th and heard a man

yelling for help three times. She then heard one gunshot, followed by three shots in quick succession. So that's interesting. The timing and the sequence of that, a woman screams, a man yells for help through, not once, three times. Right. And then there's four very quick gunshots. So I'm picturing her screaming.

And then did he yell help because it's a better cover? I don't know. I think it's something we're going to have to dissect. The defense noted that call record showed that Oscar called an estate manager at 3.19 a.m. Soon after, he used a cricket bat to break down the bathroom door. However, Michelle Berger and her husband, Charles Johnson, said they heard the gunshots after they made a call to security at 3.16 a.m. The defense claimed that what they thought were gunshots was actually Oscar hitting the door with the bat. It's possible, right?

Yeah. Is it possible? I guess you would say yes. In my mind, to me, a wooden bat hitting a door would make a very different sound than a gunshot. Now, I get it. You're a neighbor. So, you know, the sound is going to be a little different, obviously, than if you were in the same room. But is it possible?

I guess so. The defense tried to say. that the woman's voice was actually Oscar's voice and that his pitch rose because of anxiety. But Michelle maintained that she heard two different voices. On March 5th, the trial court heard about Oscar firing the gun inside the restaurant back in 2013. Kevin Lorena testified the incident occurred on January 11th, himself, Oscar, Darren Fresco, and British sprinter Martin Rooney, We're at a restaurant in Johannesburg. Darren Fresco passed the gun to Oscar under the table and told him there was a bullet in the chamber.

Then the gun fired. Kevin looked down and saw a hole in the floor right next to his foot. It graced his toe, but he wasn't injured. Okay, first of all, why are we passing guns underneath the table? And why is a gun out at all? Yeah, why even have that? And, you know, is it Oscar's gun that he gave for somebody to look? look at and they're passing it back to him.

You know, I don't, I'm not sure about the particulars, but apparently Oscar apologized and then the manager came over. Oscar asked Darren Fresco to take responsibility, telling him, just say it was you. I don't want any tension around me.

Just say it was you. Please take the blame for me. There's too much media hype around me. And there was a lot of media hype. Sure. Around him. He's, he's kind of the golden boy.

Right? Very popular. Very popular. So it's not going to look good if it comes out that he was mishandling a firearm and, you know, discharged a gun in the middle of a restaurant. Darren ended up taking the blame for him and said the gun was caught on his pants. The old. The pants did it. Could happen. Well, a gun could discharge in a number of ways. That's why you're supposed to be extremely careful. when handling firearms, especially if they're loaded, and you shouldn't be really having them out. An emergency. Unless there's some type of an emergency or you're in a life-threatening situation. On March 11th, Oscar's ex-girlfriend Samantha Taylor testified that Oscar cheated on her and would shout at her when he was angry.

He also carried a pistol with him almost everywhere he went. So why is it important that? The prosecution kind of get all of this out about Oscar and guns. Well, I think they want to point out that he's got a habit of being reckless with his guns. Absolutely. I mean, you want that out there. Samantha testified about an incident where Oscar fired a gun out of the sunroof of a car in September 2012. So this is like the third incident brought up of him being reckless.

Yeah. And some people might say, well, what's the harm? Okay, you're shooting it up in the air. Well, the harm is that that bullet is going to come down. Sure it is. It could come down on the top of somebody's head. It could, there's all kinds of things that could happen. We go back to when you had a bullet come through the top of your house.

Yeah. It was very scary. On September 30th, 2012, they were in a vehicle with Darren Fresco, who was driving. Oscar put his gun on the back seat. Darren was pulled over during their driving. drive. An officer reprimanded Oscar for leaving a loaded gun on the seat and picked up the gun. Oscar shouted at the officer that he wasn't allowed to touch it. He and Darren complained about being pulled over and Oscar fired the gun 15 minutes later. And then the two men laughed about it

afterwards. Well, it really sounds like he thought he was untouchable. And that's kind of the feeling I was getting, you know, by this point, he's the media darling. Everybody, you know, kind of wants a piece of him, whether it's, you know, do this at or do that, you know, at what point does a lot of that go to your head and you start to think that the rules don't apply to you? Because if you get pulled over and there's a gun sitting on the seat, a police officer is going to want to know what's going on. Yeah. Because it shouldn't just be sitting there on the seat. And for you to yell at an officer and say, don't, don't touch it or whatever it is. I don't know. I'm with. I'm with you. It just kind of sounds like he thought everybody should kind of bow to his will at this

point. On March 24th, the police captain read messages between Oscar and Riva in court. One message from Riva to Oscar said, I'm scared of you sometimes and how you snap at me. Okay. It's pretty vague, right? We don't have any context. Right. Is that something that happens in a lot of relationships where someone's having a bad day and they snap at their partner. I would say yes, but you have to define what snap is. Is it just something hurtful said that, you know, you later want to retract. It sounds like it's more than that for her to say that she's scared. She's not hurt. She's not upset. She's saying she's scared. So make of that. what you will. I also think we're kind of seeing a trend of him being a jealous. Yeah. Yeah, people have

said that, right? He's controlling. He's jealous. And apparently they had gotten into an argument after Oscar accused her of flirting with another man. However, the police captain did note that 90% of the messages were loving. Okay. That's maybe normal. I would say maybe low. I don't know. I don't think 10% of the messages I send my wife are not loving or mean. If they were, it'd be a pretty bad relationship, I think. But, you know, you could say wonderful things to somebody 10 times in a row and then say one negative thing to them. And that's what they're going to remember.

The negative thing, right? Yeah, but because it's more impactful. But also, let's talk about some of these. abusers, right? Some of these men are very loving in a way, sometimes over the top, but then they have that other side of them where they can be extremely abusive as well. And make it feel like it's the woman's fault. Yeah, oh, absolutely. Yeah, a lot of men are good at that as well. Oscar began his testimony on April 7th, 2014. He started with an apology to Rivas family, per BBC he said i would like to take this opportunity to apologize to mrs and mr steen camp to riva's family

to those of you who knew her who are here today there hasn't been a moment since this tragedy happened that i haven't thought about your family i wake up every morning and you're the first people i think of the first people i pray for i can't imagine the pain and the sorrow and the emptiness that i've caused you and your family. I was simply trying to protect Reba. I can promise that when she went to bed that night, she felt loved. And I'll be honest with you, one of the hardest things for me is breaking down what some of these people say. Sure. Whether it's in an interview or, you know, them addressing the family in court, it's so hard for me to tell. Are they being genuine? Do they really mean what they're saying? Are they being truthful or are they just saying these things because this is this fits their public image or for him

what his old public image was right he wants to be seen as the good guy he's saying he's innocent he was just trying to protect her but now let's really get into the details of what happened that night and unfortunately we only have oscar's testimony which was published by ABC. According to Oscar, he and Riva went to bed around 10 p.m. on February 13th. He put two fans in the doorway to their balcony because the AC wasn't working. He normally slept on the right side of the bed, but he was sleeping on the left side because of a shoulder injury.

He kept his iPad and prosthetic legs on the right side and Riva's bag and sandals were on the left side. Oscar woke up early on the 14th because the room was hot and humid. Riva was awake and asked him, you can't sleep, Baba. And apparently this was a nickname that she called him. Oscar got up without putting his prosthetic legs on so he could move the fans from the balcony doorway to the inside of the room. He pulled the curtain shut to block out any light. He picked up a pair of Riva's jeans off the floor and was going to use them to cover a small LED light on an amplifier. He wanted that room dark. According to him, he can't sleep.

Before he covered the light, he heard a window opening in his bathroom. He thought someone was breaking in, possibly using a ladder. Okay. So this kind of answers my question that I asked earlier. Why would an intruder be in your bathroom? and he's saying he thought someone entered through the bathroom. So point of entry. Oscar picked up his gun from under the left side of the bed.

He whispered to Riva to call the police and moved into a hallway that led to the bathroom. He said that as he moved down the hallway, he leaned against the wall to stabilize himself, he shifted his eyes between the bathroom door and a nearby window. He claimed that he yelled for the person to get out. out of the house and yelled for Riva to call the police. He said that he felt vulnerable because he did not have his prosthetic legs on and worried someone was going to come out of the bathroom because he heard what sounded like wood moving and thought someone was opening the door.

Oscar testified that he was overcome with fear and fired four shots through the bathroom door. So I think at this point, I want to break some of this stuff down. I don't want to get too far ahead. there's a couple of things that that jumped out at me. Number one, you know, okay, he said he whispered to Riva. Did he see her? Did he not see her? Did he just whisper assuming she was there? That, you could say that could happen. I think the part that really baffles me a little bit is him yelling for Riva to call the police and yelling for this person to get out of the house. If Riva's in the bathroom, which we ultimately know she was, why wouldn't she have yelled back?

Hey, it's me in here. I mean, I think that's an obvious question that you have to ask. I think it's a really good question you have to ask. Now, I think the other thing that a lot of people have pointed out, and you even said it, right? He's got the gun. Now, holding a gun, does that mean that you couldn't be overcome with fear? No, absolutely. You could.

but to just fire shots through the door when you have the gun and you could fire when the person opened the door. And that's a question people ask and have asked in this case specifically. Why just blindly fire through the door and assume that there's some intruder in there? Unless you knew exactly what you were doing. Right. And that's going to be the argument that some people make. He went on to say that he couldn't hear anything because his ears were ringing. He went back down the hallway. While still aiming the gun at the bathroom, he got into the bed and felt for Riva,

but she wasn't there. He thought she was possibly hiding on the floor or behind the curtains. He checked for her in those spots but didn't find her. And he said, this was the moment. When he first started to think, Riva was in the bathroom. He went back to the bathroom and tried to open the door, but it was locked. He returned to the bedroom, put on his prosthetic legs, and open the curtains to his balcony. He said he was screaming for God to help him.

He then slammed into the bathroom door and used a cricket bat to break it down so that he could reach inside, pick up a key, and let himself in. And that's when he found Riva crumpled on the floor with her on the toilet. He said he cried over her body and then retrieved his phone and went back to Riva. He called his neighbor at 319 a.m. At 320, he called an ambulance. At 321, he called the security for his estate. And this is where, kind of I said earlier, the timing of the calls and the order of the calls comes into question. You know, one article by NBC states he called his neighbor at 319.

And then the community security office at 321. And then emergency services at 325. So there's some discrepancy. Well, there's definitely a gap there. Now, it's not a lot of time, right, between calls. But to your point, none of these say that the first call he made was to emergency services. And to me, that's weird. I think so, too, unless you're doing it for a reason.

Why would you call your neighbor before you call emergency services? Now, you know, we ask these questions, but also have to keep in mind that, in some of these situations, people aren't thinking clearly. Right. But to your point, maybe he was thinking clearly. And he was doing things for a reason. Yeah, because at that point, he knew what he did. Why wouldn't you want to get the people that can help her there as soon as quick?

Yeah, as soon as quick. As soon as possible. Yeah, absolutely. And that's, again, the questions that people ask, the things that don't seem to make sense, Oscar picked up Riva's body and took her downstairs to his front door. His neighbor arrived and saw that Oscar had his fingers in her mouth to keep her airway open. Another hand was on her hip to try to stop the bleeding. The police and paramedics asked Oscar to stay in the kitchen and he was informed that Riva was dead.

Oscar asked to wash the blood off his hands because the smell was making him sick. Two hours later, he asked the police to take him. take all necessary photos of him so he could change clothes. And again, this is something that you could view in a couple of different way. Do you want to get that blood off of you as quickly as possible? I could see where a lot of people would. Two hours later, you want to change your clothes so badly. You just want police to get done, whatever they have to get done. Yeah, I can see that as well. But you can also see why some people would look at some of these things as maybe a little more. more calculated. On April 10th during Oscar's second day of cross-examination,

prosecutor Jerry Nell told the court that Riva ran screaming to the bathroom. After she and Oscar got into an argument, Mel asked Oscar, according to the independent, why would she leave her jeans on the floor? If everything else is in her overnight bag, she wanted to leave and you weren't sleeping. You were both awake and there was an argument. Oscar responded that Reva was a neat person. Her jeans were inside out, which showed she was not putting them on. And this question of, you know, were they both awake? You know, there was talk about the fact that Reva was awake at one point, asking him, oh, you can't sleep. Did they both go back to sleep? And then she got up and went to the bathroom. Or as the prosecutor alleged, a fight ensued and she went to the bathroom. try to get away from him.

You could go either way, right? But I think it makes sense that she was trying to get away from him, to me. Well, we're not done with everything. But if you look at the totality of the statements, his statements so far, you would have to say that they just don't seem to make a lot of sense, right? The timing of everything, how everything went down. Now, questioned Oscar about his bail statement from February 2013. Oscar said he heard a noise in the bathroom,

but later said it was the sound of a window sliding open and slamming that made him shoot at the door. Oscar said he was on medication and was traumatized, which could explain any discrepancies in statement. Okay, maybe true, maybe not, but any time there is a discrepancy in your statement of events, it's going to be scrutinized by the prosecution. And the media.

And the media. Oscar denied that. he and Riva were arguing at the conclusion of his testimony. His lawyer asked him to read a Valentine's Day card written by Riva that said, I think today is a good day to tell you that I love you. Oscar said that Riva was killed before they could open cards and gifts together and they had plans to go pick up a bracelet he purchased for her that day. And I get why he would want this out, his attorney would want this out, right?

he's trying to make it seem as though this relationship is great. I mean, here's what she wrote to me in the Valentine's Day car. But does that mean that things couldn't have gone off the rails that night and an argument broke out and she tried to get away from him and he shot her through the door? And I would say no. You know, couples have great days, good days, bad day. Sure. That's just how it goes. And I think, because it seemed like he had somewhat of a temper that he could probably go off the rails pretty quick. Yes. I think he probably could be very loving the majority of the time. But I think a lot of people are like that.

You know, they're lovey-dovey one minute and then something sets them off. And maybe they're not abusive physically, but they say, you know, mean things. Maybe they're emotionally abusive. There's all kinds of different scenarios. And, you know, Oscar cried, and he appeared to be very emotional on the stand. But it was later reported that he took acting classes before the trial, although he denied these claims. If that's true, it's not going to bode well for you. It doesn't make you look great.

Why do you need to take acting lessons if you didn't do anything wrong? On April 16th, the defense played recordings of a cricket bat hitting a door and gunshots going through a door. Their goal was to prove that the two sounds were similar and could be confused from a distance. This was part of their efforts to show that Michelle Berger and her husband confused the gunshots for the sound of the cricket bat. And we talked about this earlier. And my thought was, I don't know if you could confuse them, but maybe you could, you know, depending on how far away you were from the sounds.

But I don't know how you recreate it. How do you just record it from the same? distance through walls through the same type of environment as Michelle Berger, you know, would have been the night she heard them. The problem was there really was nothing in the research about how it played. Right. Whether or not it sounded similar or very dissimilar, it just said it was a,

it was something that they, they put on. Who did it support? Yeah. We don't know. As mentioned by Oscar in his testimony, he put on his. prosthetic legs before he knocked down the door. And there are a lot of people that have said that this

probably hurt his case. As noted by the website, McLean's, ballistic showed that the shots were fired downward, which suggested that he was wearing his prosthetic legs when he shot at the door. And you know, there's not much that fascinates me more than, you know, the forensic sciences and ballistics and things like that. Yeah, you love that stuff. The trajectory of. of bullies. You know, I used to love on Dexter when he would use the red yarn and yeah, yeah, and do the blood, you know, spatter and, and all of that. But this was a big deal in the trial because obviously Oscar Pistorius is a different height when he's wearing his prosthetic legs versus when he is not. The trial continued in May after recess. A psychiatrist testified

for the defense that Oscar suffered from. generalized anxiety disorder, which could have influenced his actions that night. So the judge called for a delay. So Oscar could undergo a mental health examination. The experts released their report on June 30th. They determined that Oscar did not have an anxiety disorder. However, the independent reported that on July 2nd, a report was read in court stating that Oscar was severely depressed and at an increased risk of ending his life.

unless he received mental health care. So, you know, I did kind of want to talk about this generalized anxiety disorder. Do you know how many people have that? It is a, as a massive number. In the country or in the world? In the world. I just think, you know, generalized anxiety disorder, it's, I think that's fairly broad and encompasses, you know, a number of things.

I've been pretty candid about my anxiety. Yeah. And I think that's why the pharmaceuticals, Like the musicals love it. Not because of you. No, not because of me, but. Because it has an impact on so many people in this world. It does.

And I don't think, you know, the situation with COVID has helped that at all. If anything, it's made it worse, right? It's made it worse. But, you know, you have to kind of parse some of this stuff out. What does it mean? You know, he was severely depressed. But this is after the shooting. This is during the trial.

This is not at the point he should. shot her, that he's at an increased risk of ending of his life unless he receives mental health care. So I don't know how much that report really has to do with him at the time of the shooting. I guess that's what I struggled with. Oscar's trial concluded on August 8th, 2014. Prosecutor Jerry Nell presented 13 inconsistencies in the defense's case and accused Oscar of telling a snowball of lives. The following are some of those inconsistencies as summarized by BBC.

In his bail application, Oscar said he heard a noise from the bathroom while bringing a fan inside from the balcony, but he later disputed the statement. His bail application said he only had one fan that night, but his plea explanation says there was more than one fan. Nell argued that Oscar added a second fan

to give Reeve a time to walk into the bathroom and make noise, which would support his version of events. Oscar said he put the fans at the end of his bed, and they were found by the balcony door. He alleged that officers moved the fans, his duvet, and his curtains. Oscar also said he couldn't see anything when he woke up,

but he then said he saw the duvet over Riva's legs. Nell said that it was inconceivable that Oscar would not have spoken to Riva, if he believed an intruder was in the bathroom. He said that Oscar must have made up a story about a conversation later on because it wasn't mentioned in the bail application. And we talked about that earlier. That's one of the things that I really struggled with because I'm imagining my wife and I in our bedroom and me thinking that there's an intruder in the room with us or in the

bathroom. I'm going to be screaming to find out where my wife is. sure you are. Because I want to know that she's protected or what I have to do to protect her. And I need to know her location to make my next decision. Right. And to me, that's just natural. And I think everybody would do that if that's their concern, right? Yeah, I mean, you're concerned for yourself, obviously, but you're definitely concerned for your partner, your wife, your spouse, whoever. I just know if that was me, I would want to hear my partner's voice back, right? Confirmation.

Yeah. You need confirmation that they're there. They're safe. And then maybe there would be some direction. Hey, get on, get under the bed. Right. I'm going to get the gun and I'm going to see who's in the bathroom. I don't know.

That just seems so logical to me. I don't think I would get the gun and just walk up and start firing through the door. not knowing who's on the other side. Right. Finally, Nell noted that Oscar deactivated his alarm after the shooting. Oscar's defense attorney argued that his disability created a heightened fight response that led him to confront danger.

And I do think that, you know, that his defense team really hung their hat in a large way on this, right? He didn't have his legs. He was scared. He didn't know if he would be able to defend himself, even though he already has the gun in his hand. Right. He's ahead of the game. You would think. On September 11th, the judge found Oscar Pistorius not guilty of premeditated murder. According to the independent judge Masepa said the state has not proved beyond reasonable doubt that the accused is guilty of premeditated murder. There are just not enough facts. to support such a finding.

Judge Masepa also called Oscar a very poor witness and said he was vague and avoided answering some questions, but this did not necessarily mean he was guilty. And that concept of reasonable doubt, right, comes up so often, especially here in the States. You know, we've gone through a lot of the facts of the case and we've said, well, this kind of seems a little strange or, you know, we would have done it. it this way or that way most likely. Now, we don't know that for sure because we've never been put in that situation. But that's much different than believing beyond a reasonable doubt that he meant

to kill her, right? He thought about it. He planned it. And he execute. You can think that. You can. You can draw that conclusion from all of the known facts or statements. But the judge is saying it wasn't proven. On September 12th, Oscar was found guilty of culpable homicide, which is pretty similar to manslaughter here in the U.S. The judge said that although Oscar was reckless and negligent, there was a reasonable possibility that he thought he was defending himself against an intruder.

Judge Masepa determined that Oscar had sufficient time to call for help, which is what led to the conviction. So what does he say? saying before firing all those shots into the door. You had an opportunity. You had an opportunity to call for help, call the police. And then what? Sit there with your gun.

And if somebody opens the door and comes out and you're scared at that point and you shoot, okay, well, maybe that's different. Yeah, because at that time, your life was not in jeopardy. Right. No, not when somebody's behind the door. No. I don't see how it would have been. Oscar was also found guilty of a legal possession of ammunition and discharging a gun in a public area for the January 2013 incident.

He was acquitted of the September 2012 incident. On October 2nd, 2014, the mirror reported that Oscar had a secret nine-minute conversation with his ex-girlfriend Jenna Edkins shortly before he killed Riva. Edkins's number was saved in his phone under the name, baby shoes. Okay. Two journalists named Barry Bateman and Mandy Weiner found this information when they were working on their book behind the door. The phone used to make the call was taken from the crime scene for two weeks. When the police got it, the call history, WhatsApp history, and some messages had been erased. According to Bateman, the police suspected Oscar's brother of a real.

erasing the data. So what do you make of this secret nine minute conversation? It might appear to be some type of improper conversation, something that maybe he shouldn't have been doing if he was in love with his girlfriend. Yeah, maybe. But the problem is we just don't, we don't have all the particular. So it's kind of hard to tell what it means as it relates to whether or not he murdered Riva purposefully. Oscar's family responded with the statement, we are not aware of any deletions, having been affected by Oscar

or affected on his instructions that could be relevant to his trial. But you'd like to know what some of those messages said? For sure. Because I think it's going to change your, if you thought he didn't do anything wrong, it might change your perspective. Well, depending on what's in the messages, it could absolutely change your perspective.

But at that time of night, why would you be having a secret conversation with another female with your girlfriend somewhere in the vicinity of you? The day before Valentine's Day? Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, you got to, you know, put all that together. On October 21st, 2014, Oscar was sentenced to five years in prison. He also received a three-year suspended sentence for,

the firearms offense, prosecutors asked for permission to appeal the conviction and sentence, arguing it was too lenient. And if you're a person, especially the family, who believes that Oscar Pistorius purposefully murdered Revesteen Camp, five years is hard to swallow.

Yeah, that's a slap in the face. Yeah, absolutely. Now, if you're a person that believes that, you know, he made a terrible mistake,

maybe you're okay with the five years. On October 19th, 2015, Oscar was released to serve the rest of his sentence under house arrest. Now, I would be really upset if I was a family member. Yeah. I mean, that's even more of a slap in the face,

I think, because, yeah, you can't leave the house. You have to sit at home, but that's a far cry from being in prison. Especially somebody that had the type of money that he had. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. According to biography.com, Riva's mother, June, gave a speech after his release saying, I didn't want him to be thrown in jail and be suffering because I don't wish suffering on anyone. And that's not going to bring Riva back. Again, Gibbs, it never fails to amaze me. Some of the forgiveness that family members are able to display. Yeah, it'd be tough to do that for me, but I get it.

Yeah. Now, we don't know what she thought of Oscar, what she thought of, but obviously she said she didn't want to see him suffer in prison. For me, I'd be happy that he was out so I can go settle the score easier. Yeah, we know Rambo. We know what you would do. But I think in all seriousness, you know, how could you do that unless you were 100% sure? are you 100% sure that he meant to murder riva steam can't yeah it'd be tough to to say you're 100 100 sure yeah so if you're not does that mean you have some reasonable doubt and that's why i go back to that fascinating concept of reasonable doubt it's hard for me to be 100% sure about most things right i'm 37% sure about you and that's a good day Yeah, that's today and it's actually a good day.

Just two months later, on December 3rd, 2015, the appeals court found Oscar guilty of murder. The court found that the judge did not properly apply the rule of Dolos eventualis or indirect intention. According to Britannica, Dolos eventualis is a South African legal concept that hinges upon whether the accused for saw the possibility of death as a potential outcome of his actions. I would think if you're going to shoot a gun through a door at somebody on the other side, your intentions were and that you knew that they could die. That someone could die. Judge Eric Leach said about the decision per biography.com,

I have no doubt that in firing the fatal shots, the accused must have foreseen and therefore did foresee that whoever was behind, behind the toilet door might die, but reconciled himself to that event occurring and gambled with that person's life. The identity of his victim is irrelevant to his guilt. Now, that's an interesting statement. Basically, I'm taking that to mean that it could have been an intruder, and he still would have been guilty of this. That makes sense, though, because he couldn't have known. Right. I guess. And what? And what? And what? And what? And he would have been guilty of this. That makes sense, though, because because he couldn't have known. I guess. And where was the threat?

Yeah. And, you know, we're more used to the laws here in the U.S. And so a lot of the conversations we have are generally around those. We know that some things are much, much different in other countries. In March 2016, the Constitutional Court denied Oscar leave to appeal his murder conviction. The National Prosecuting Authority said the Constitutional Court found no prospect of success in the appeal, according to BBC. So on July 6th, 2016, Oscar was sentenced to six years in prison, but it was said that the standard sentence was 15 years. So again, why was that? Is that because of his

celebrity? Was that because of the high profile nature of the trial? Or was it because of the events that transpired? Or maybe a combination of all of them? Maybe a combination. It may be a combination. But I'm always interested to ask those type of questions, right? Why does someone get a sentence that is so much lower than what the standard sentence is? And in this one, it's not even half. Yeah. And with that person received the same outcome if he wasn't so famous. Yeah. I think you have to ask that. Prosecutors announced their intention to appeal the sentence. The NPA announced as quoted by NBC, we respect fully submit that the sentence is disproportionate, shockingly too lenient and has accordingly resulted in injustice. On August 26, 2016, Judge Masepa refused to grant prosecutors' permission

to appeal the sentencing. The judge cited mitigating factors such as Oscar's disability, his expression of remorse, being a first-time offender, and the circumstances surrounding the shooting. So I think right there, the judge is explaining some of the factors that went into why he got six years versus the standard, which was 15. Now, whether, you know, you agree with that, you don't agree with that, at least he's citing the reason. Yeah, I'm not sure about that first time offender. I mean, well, it's the first time he killed somebody. So we're going to let it let you out a little bit earlier. Yeah, I get that, you know, first time offender thing, but when it comes to shooting and killing somebody, is that really coming to play, you know, burglary? I, okay, I get. You're a cat

burglar and it's the first time you've been caught. You're not going away for maybe as long as if you had 20 years worth of burglary convictions or whatever it is. And as far as him being remorseful, Was he? Or was it just good acting? Because we know that he took acting classes. And guess what? His livelihood, his existence was on the line. Yeah. Yeah, he had a reason to display remorse, even if he wasn't remorseful. But back to my question, how do you really know? Well, that's the thing. Whether somebody's showing their true emotions or they're just play acting because that's what they want people to see. think it'd be very difficult to make that conclusion. On November 3rd, 2017, prosecutors asked the Supreme Court of Appeal to review the sentence, arguing that the judge exercised discretion inappropriately and that Oscar did not show genuine remorse for the shooting. So we've got this back and forth, right? The judge is saying one thing. The prosecution keeps appealing because they just don't agree. On November 24th, 2017, the

Supreme Court of Appeal sentenced Oscar Pistorius to 13 years and five months with credit for time served. So what the prosecution did paid off, right? They didn't let it go. They kept saying, we don't agree. This is too lenient. They kept appealing. And now instead of, you know, six years, they got 13 and a half almost. Yeah, they finally got it up to where they can say, Okay, now we're in line with what it should be. But close to the normal sentence. Supreme Court Justice Willie Serrety noted that Oscar failed to explain why he fired the gun and he did not seem remorseful.

The Steen Camp's lawyer told the AP after the decision, they feel there has been justice for Riva. She can now rest in peace. But at the same time, people must realize that people think this is the end of the road for them. the fact is they still live with Riva's loss every day. And that statement is so absolutely true. You know, we talk about these stories. We talk about what leads up to them.

We talk about the trial, the sentence, that this person is still in jail or whatever it is. What you don't see, but you know is happening is the family grappling with what happened for the rest of their life. Yeah. And that's just the. fact. In July 2021, Oscar became eligible for parole. But one of the conditions was that he had to meet with Riva's parents. In South Africa, victims have the right to a face-to-face meeting with an offender and can make recommendations to the parole board. Wow, I actually like that. Yeah, that's a good thing.

I'd like to get some of that over here. Yeah, maybe one day. So he had a parole hearing scheduled for October of that year, but it was canceled partly because the meeting had not been set up. It was also canceled because a full report of his time in prison wasn't available yet. He met with Rivas parents in 2022. And then his parole hearing took place on March 31st, 2020. So just earlier this year, he was denied parole and ordered to stay in prison for at least another year in four months. According to NBC, the parole. the parole board determined he had not served the minimum detention period.

So basically, Oscar can apply for parole again in August, 24. Well, that will be here very quickly. It will. And he could be out as early as, you know, later next year. Rivas family has said they still don't believe Oscar's story. And they want him to remain incarcerated. The Steen camps believe that Oscar cannot. be considered rehabilitated until he comes clean. And I see that from the family's perspective.

If they don't believe him, if they don't believe his version of events, then how can they come to terms with him getting out? Because in their minds, he's never told the true story. Right. And that's what they want. They just, they want to know what happened. And why not tell the two story unless you really are innocent or is he more worried about when he does get out what can he do career wise nothing nobody's going to advertise with him no no he's not he can't run you know he's his running days are over his marketability days are over so but you know to me once you're pot committed right you've pushed all your chips in on the i'm innocent sent. Right. I've told my story. I think it's very hard for people to later on say, you know what,

all these years I've been lying. Yeah. Now, that is if he is lying, I think the majority of people, more people than not, believe he is. I'm sure there are a lot of people that are on his side, believe that, you know, he's telling the truth. He was scared. He didn't know she was in there. but I think more than than not believe no something went down that it wasn't in line with the story he told and probably for him it does more damage than good if he comes clean if he well what good does it do tell me one good thing that happens for him if he comes clean just his conscious maybe he maybe he doesn't have a problem with that no and I don't think he does if he did if he did it I think he's okay saying he didn't do it, obviously.

Yeah, he's had enough time to think about it. Yeah. You know, if it was weighing on his conscience for this long, I think he would have said something by now. Oscar Pistorius was once an internationally famous athlete. And like we said, he was an inspiration to a lot of people. I think the tough thing about this case is there are still a lot of questions. did Oscar Pistorius intentionally kill Rivas Steencamp after an argument?

Or did he make a tragic mistake when he shot through that doorway and killed her? And I said it earlier. There's only one person that really knows exactly every single minute detail of what happened. And that's Oscar Pistorius because he was the only one. in that apartment that lived. Now, the problem is the things that he, that he has said, number one,

they don't seem to line up with the facts of the case, all that great. I think that's one thing a lot of people have a problem with. I think the other thing is, you know, he has been pretty inconsistent. Yes. Prosecutor pointed out a lot of inconsistencies.

But again, when you look at it from the standpoint of, is there reasonable doubt? I mean, just look at all the different appeals. And you can see it obviously wasn't so clear cut because it went back and forth, back and forth. And everybody had kind of a little bit of a different take on it. So I want to ask you one question as we wrap up this case.

Let's say Oscar gets out late next year, 2004. Okay. The murder occurred in 2013. He was on house arrest for, you know, some period of time, he was out on bail. If he didn't intentionally kill her, would that be enough time? Would he have served a sentence long enough in your mind to pay for what he did? I think he's in the ballpark.

It's close. I mean, I think it's somewhere in that neighborhood. I don't know what, what the, the right number is. I think what is definite is that if this whole thing was intentional, if they had an argument and she ran in that bathroom and he shot through the bathroom door knowing she was on the other side, then this is not even scratching the surface. Not at all. Of the time that he should have gotten, he should have received a life sentence.

Yeah, I think so. If that was the case. If that was the case. But the prosecutors, at least in the judge's eyes, didn't prove that. I don't know how they could. Well, I think it was tough because there was nobody else there. to corroborate, you know, his story or refute his story. All they could do was provide, you know, the evidence they have.

But that's it for our episode on Oscar Pistorius. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Let's hear them. Hello, this is Lori from Missouri. I was listening to the Gary Ridgway episode and occurred to me. I have a friend that did ancestry and they had a sibling that did 23 of me, but 23 and me only compares 23 and me and ancestry only compares ancestry so until they both downloaded their DNA to jed match they were unaware of each other it's free it's easy and you should do it if you actually want to get contacted you can opt in or out of the helping to fight crying part of it and that's all I have to say I love my gang you do

keep your own time ticking. Thanks. Bye. Well, we definitely love you too and we appreciate you calling in. And I think it is an important statement that she's making. You know, we hear about Jedmatch a lot. And there are a couple of other different databases that you can submit to. And now you can opt in or out of certain things where, you know, I think the thought before,

the concern before was once you put it in there, then it's, It's like, okay, the police can just use it for whatever, I guess. And I think they've changed some of it. I don't know all the particulars, but it's an interesting thing to look into. I think so, for sure. Yeah. I haven't even started listening to the episode, but y'all already started cracking me up.

I'm about to listen to the Ridgeway, dude. And you were saying about how much. Gibby owes you about the meals, the free meals you provided. But I think that you may still owe Gibby a little money because his time and company and entertainment is way worth way more. $6,000. So givey, stand that for yourself, dude.

All right. She's got your back, which, which I get. But here's, here's the part that, that maybe she's not getting. You don't come over here just to hang out with me.

I love hanging out with you. We're great friends and all that. Now, for the first two or three years that we did this podcast, we couldn't get commercials. you know, we couldn't get anything. Right. But, you know, we do have commercials now.

And I think people maybe think you're just doing this for the fun of it, which it is fun. It is. I love it. But let's not, let's not kid ourselves. You get a little something for your time. Every now and then. More than just the free meals. So I got to point that out.

But we appreciate the voicemail very much. We had nothing in the mailbag. So that's it. For another episode. of true crime all the time. So for Mike, and give me. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.