True Crime All The Time - Patrick Tracy Burris

Episode Date: October 28, 2019

Patrick Tracy Burris was a spree killer who shot and killed five people in a six day period in South Carolina in 2009. Burris terrorized the small community of Gaffney, South Carolina during this time. The shootings were random and the ages of the victims ranged from fifteen to eighty-three. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the life and crimes of Patrick Tracy Burris. What made this man, who had just recently been paroled from prison, go on such a horrific killing spree? Gaffney, with only 12,000 residents, had experienced this type of fear once before. They had a serial killer on the loose back in 1968 that struck this same type of fear. We will discuss the Gaffney Stranger, Lee Roy Martin, in this episode.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise and donation informationSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 154 of the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime Mike Gibson. Give me how are you today? I'm good man. 154. It's kind of hard to believe. You know, when we had the 150, you know, I thought back and it just seemed like a few weeks ago. We were doing Ed Kemper 100. Yeah, it really does. They go very, very quickly. And here we are four episodes later after Gacy. I know. So we'll be at 200 before you know it. Yeah. And have to figure something out for that, something special. Well, you know, there's never a shortage of murder, unfortunately. Yeah, that's what I tell people when they ask me, you know, how long can you do this for? It's like, man, I've got cases lined up, four or five hundred cases. And just like you and I just talked about on Patreon,

They just found 39 bodies in a tractor trailer. Yeah. So when the details come out, that's going to be something to talk about. It's sad, but true, people are committing crimes on a daily basis, some more horrific than others. Yeah. And you got that Samuel Little guy that came out in the news recently, too. Yeah, there are so many cases. That's not the issue.

So Gibbs, we have some new Patreon supporters. Let's do some shoutouts. We had Jody Sauer. Hey, Jody. Marty Martinez. What's up? Martinez. Sue.

Boy named Sue. Kelly McClanahan. Hey, Kelly. Denise, mom of three. Hey, Denise. That's a lot of work right there. Lauren Smith. Hey, Lauren.

Mary Reichard jumped out of our highest level. Reichert. Jesse Lopez. Hey, Jesse. Glenn Roberts jumped out of our highest level. What's up, Glenn? Thank you. Michelle Middleton.

Hey, Michelle. Ellen Bethel. Ellen. Madeline Paige Johnson. Hey, Madeline. Camilla. What's up? Camilla.

Deb Plummer. Hey, Deb. Brana Shiketsky. Ooh, Sakatsky. That's just a fun name to say. Yeah. Table for two. Siketsky.

Brittany Cirillo. Hey, Brittany. Kaila Acker. What's up, Kai? Our good friend, whose name I've butchered you on many occasions. Butchered it all the time. Tony Jeffers. Hey, Tony.

Ronica Martinez. Hey, Veronica. Did you say Veronica? No, Ronica. Oh, Veronica. She's like, don't call me Veronica. It's Veronica. Unless when I.

typed that I left off the VE, but at this point we said Veronica and Ronica, Sorko. No, I'm pretty sure it's Veronica. Yeah. Liz Charles. Hey, Liz. Colleen Kanye. Hey, Colleen. And Anne Fraser.

Hey, Ann. Thank you. Appreciate all that new support. And then if we go back into the Vault Gibbs, this week we selected Dina Seeger. Hey, Dina. And Dina's a good friend of the show. Yeah. She's been at some crime cons.

We've hung out with her. I think, was she even in Chicago? Um, now that I think about it. I can't remember. I can't remember a lot from Chicago. Yeah. So. But anyway, Dean is a big support of the show.

We appreciate all that long-term support as well. We had PayPal. Jason Humby. Hey, Jason. Lynn Golds. What's up, Lynn? Morwina Ritaka. Moina.

Morwina. That's fun to say. Yeah. Shiley Green. Hey, Shal. Hey, Shonda. And Christina Smith. Hey, Christina.

So thank you all. Very, very much appreciated. Gives right now, we have an episode out. on true crime all time unsolved. It's about a 17-year-old girl named Brittany Drexel who tricked her mother in order to go down on spring break to Myrtle Beach. Not the first time a kid's done, man. No, not at all.

But Brittany disappeared. And it's one of those very mysterious cases. There's some video surveillance. There's, you know, the people that she was with. There's people that she went to go see. and then there are some other persons of interest, I'll call them. I think the FBI have called them that. I think it's a concern all parents have that time of the year when their kids go

off the spring break without them, even with their approval to go, right? Until they come back, you are worried the whole time they're gone. No doubt, no doubt. But we'll get into that. And then don't forget the reviews are in. Yeah. It is out every Tuesday. our last episode Gibbs titled Girls Can Pea standing up too.

Yeah. A lot of good feedback on that, especially since you told what was a rather embarrassing story. Well, I don't want to give it away because if you haven't listened to it, you better check it out. It's definitely making some headlines. It is. People are talking for sure. Yeah. What am I forgetting?

We have a new Patreon full episode, video and audio coming out next week. Yeah. So that's a good thing. But I think right now we have to get into this case. And we're talking about Patrick Tracy Burris, not what you would consider a well-known killer. I thought it was good coming off of the big four-parter Gacy. Right? It's kind of been our MO.

We do a lot of lesser-known cases. We sprinkle in some of the more well-known. And then every night. now and then we have a real big infamous serial killer that takes multiple parts. That's what we did. We dropped the blockbuster gasey. Now we'll go back to what we're typically due for a while, right? The lesser known.

I think the other thing that jumped out at me about this case was that Burris was a spree killer. I'm calling him a spree killer. He's listed as a spree killer in a lot of places, but he's also listed as a serial killer. Yeah. In a lot of places. The guy murdered at least five people in a span of six days around the Gaffney,

South Carolina area. These were random killings that shocked the small town of Gaffney. And there's really no link between the shootings. The victims were both male and female. And really, they range from, what, 15 to 83 years old. Yeah. I mean, there's a very. large span in the age ranges of this guy's victims.

And I said, I'm calling him a spree killer. Some other people have labeled him a serial killer. But to me, Gibbs, five murders in the span of six days. That seems like a spree. Oh, for sure. It doesn't seem like there's any type of what I would think of as a cooling off period for these to be. labeled as serial killings. Now, people may disagree, but that's my take on it.

Well, I think people look at it as a serial killer because of the number of victims involved. And I think you're right. I think you're right. I mean, there are definitely multiple definitions of serial killer. I think some of them, like the FBI, for example, they include the cooling off period. I'm not sure everybody does. But either way, the other thing about this guy that really jumped out at me is Patrick Tracy Burris. He was a big old Buford. There's no doubt about it. Like Buford and Walkin Tall. Yeah. I mean, now, you know, we're venturing into the Ed Kemper arena here. Yeah. And he was somewhere in the neighborhood of six nine, three hundred pounds. It's a big boy. This guy, Patrick Burris. Yeah, he was a big boy for sure. One other thing that jumped out of me.

And I'm kind of saying that because of, you know, why I tend to pick the cases that I do is that Gaffney, South Carolina, there were no stranger to this type of horror. In 1968, they had a serial killer terrorizing the town over an eight-day period. This guy was stalking women who were alone and then strangling them. His name was Lee Roy Martin. and he became known as the Gaffney strangler. So you're telling me this little small town had not one, but two potentially spreece slash serial killers. That's exactly what I'm telling you.

And when you say small, this is a pretty small town. We're talking about a town the size of about 12,000 people. That's small, man. It's not a big town. No. So to think, okay, in 68, we have a serial killer and then fast forward to 2009 we have a spree slash serial killer in a town of 12,000

people that really caught my eye. It's a rarity, I think. Yeah. So I do want to spend a little bit of time talking about Lee Roy Martin because as I was researching Patrick Tracy Burris, I got into this case and it was very fascinating. there's not a lot out there. So I thought, oh, perfect to compliment the episode that we're doing. It turned out that Martin killed his first victim, Annie Deadman in May 1967, but no one knew about it. They knew that she was killed. She was found in a ditch, but they didn't know it was this guy Martin.

So Annie's husband, Roger was arrested, tried, and convicted of her murder. Police said he confessed, but at trial, understand, Roger denied having any knowledge of how his wife died, said he didn't have anything to do with it. But obviously they didn't believe him because they convicted him and he got an 18 year sentence. So, Leroy Martin didn't strike again until February of 1968. But over that eight-day stretch, and this is the part that I haven't really stressed yet, right? The main topic of our episode is a person that killed over a six-day period. This guy, Martin, killed over an eight-day period aside from his first victim, which was the year before.

But during that eight-day period, he murdered three more women, 20-year-old Nancy Paris, 14-year-old Nancy Reinhart, and 15-year-old Opel Bucksson. So again, a pretty short run. Yeah, it's not much time to kill three people in eight days. Well, clearly he likes the young women based on these ages. Yeah, I think you're right. Judging from the ages of his victims, he chose young women. Some of these were young girls.

They're not even women. He followed them. He stalked them and he strangled them. But there are some really strange things, Gibbs that happened in this case. So before killing his last victim, which was Opel Buxon, Martin called the editor of the local paper, the Gaffney Ledger, and he talked to the editor. And over the phone, told him to write some things down. One of the things was, I'm going to give you the directions to find my first three victims.

But the other thing he did was that he warned him. He warned this editor that this was just the beginning. There would be more. He'd my warning, I guess is what he was saying. Yeah. Yeah. Now, there wouldn't be more because Martin was arrested two days after he killed Opel Buxon. So police got him.

And obviously, we're not going into all the details. This is kind of like a branch, right, a side shoot. But police are questioning him. He was giving conflicting statements about what he had done. I guess at one point, he said that it was like he was standing on a hill. looking down on himself while he committed the crimes. You know, I read other information on killers that say the same thing. You know, maybe not standing on the hill, but they're standing over and they're looking

down and seeing them do these horrendous things to victims. Yeah, like an out-of-body type of experience. Yeah, I've read that too. That's kind of like what he's saying. But he also called himself a psycho. And he didn't say he had a dual-border. personality, he called himself a dual person, which I'm assuming means the same thing. So they're questioning this guy. And they got Martin to tell them how he strangled his victims.

But this guy took it a step further. He showed them how he placed a belt around the necks of his victims and he pulled it tight until they were dead. But for some reason, they had a police officer stand in and play the part of a victim. So they actually gave this guy a belt to put around the neck of a police officer to show them how he did it. Oh. Which I'm thinking, I can pretty much picture in my head how you would do it. I don't really need to see it done.

You sure? You want to try it out? To know how it works. We can do, we can do on air right now. But this is what they did. They said, okay, show us how you did it. Show it on officer X. I don't know the person's name.

So they give the guy a belt and he puts it around the neck of this officer. The problem is something kind of snapped and he started to pull the belt tight and he wouldn't let it go. The other, the other personality came out. The other officers had to jump in, push him off this guy. get the belt out of his hands. And all of these officers said that he had this strange look in his eyes, like a wild animal type look as he was pulling this belt tight. Yeah.

But then afterwards, he broke down crying after supposedly realizing what he had done. And he said, you know what, officers, I'm really glad you stopped me before this went too far. So this whole scenario of him choking this officer and then, afterwards doing the poor me, I'm sorry, that'd be great for an insanity defense. I don't think it would hurt. But the other big thing is, right? They know Martin confessed to killing Annie Deadmond the year before. So they let Roger Deadmond out of prison after serving three months.

But just imagine that. You're in prison. Your wife is dead. Right. You know for a fact you didn't have. have anything to do with it, but a jury said you did. And if they don't catch this guy, you may serve 18 years. It's a shawl shank. Yeah. It's exactly what it is. But luckily, they figured it out. And now, I'm sure the guy was not happy to do three months in prison. He's also

not happy that he lost his wife. But I'm sure he's happy. He didn't have to do the other 17 years and nine months. I think he's darn happy. He was probably like Bubba. Here, you can have my ramen noodles. Here's everything that's on my account. I don't care. I'm leaving. I don't think back then they had ramen noodles. Thanks. Thanks for that you don't think they had ramen noodles? It's 68. No, I don't know. When did ramen noodles come about? I don't know. Whatever he had on his account, whatever he had stashed away, he gave it to Bubba and said, you know what? We had some good times, but I'm getting the heck out of Dodge. Going to miss the cuddles. The cuddling. Yeah. That's going to be rough. But I don't want to say I got sidetracked because I, I

do think that was a very interesting story. It'll probably mean more as we start talking more in depth about Gaffney and Patrick Tracy Burris. Yeah, just for me, it's always interesting. When you research all these different cases, the spinoffs that we constantly see. Yeah, what do you usually call them, though? Like webs or not really rabbit holes, because that's usually a term for one case, branches. Branches. Yeah, it's like these things branch off and they connect in these kind of different ways. I think one of the big things about the Martin case and why I wanted to bring it up, especially as it relates to what we're getting ready to talk about, is, you know, at the time that Burris killed his victims, there were still people alive. And

I'm sure probably some are still today who remembered the fear that took over that small town of Gaffney with the Gaffney Strangler. it's all going to come back. And even those people Gibbs that weren't alive, you know that they had heard all the details, right? You have that type of case happen in your small town. That's going to be talked about for generations. Oh, for sure.

The donut shop, the coffee shop, whatever, every, all the time. Yeah. Kids are going to be told, don't do this or the Gaffney Strangler will get you. They're going to know about it. It was also said that a lot of people. had guns in the town of Gaffney. A lot of people bought them in the wake of the Gaffney Strangler. A lot of people just bought them because they were fearful that, okay, you're telling me this

can happen in our little quaint small town. I'm going to arm myself. And unfortunately, something did happen again. And all that same fear, you know, it's going to crop up. So like we already said, though, I think to have two different killers like this, strike in your, town, especially a town of this size, it's noteworthy. So let's get into Patrick Tracy Burris.

He was born August 8th, 1967 in Maryland. There's not a ton of background on this guy. This was a pretty tough one to research. You know, Gibbs. Some are just like that. You pick something that you think people will find interesting. You get pretty far into it. And then all of a sudden you're like, ooh, there's not as much info out here as I thought

there was. You will always find the detail history as you hope. Yeah. And you got to dig a little deeper. Family later said that he had a good childhood. He had loving parents, but he did get involved with a bad crowd, started using drugs at the age of 13 and eventually began to steal to support that happen, right? That happens. Happens a lot with people that get addicted to drugs. You don't find a lot of addicts who are exceptional workers able to hold down good paying jobs. No. You find a lot of addicts who have to resort to other means sometimes to get the money that they need to get their fix. Feeding that habit, man. And we're talking burglary, things like that. That's exactly what happened with Patrick. He never completed high school. That also seems to be a trend for some reason. I feel

like we've done quite a number of cases recently where the perpetrator never completed high school. Why do you think that is? Because they lack the skills to hack it because they couldn't conform to the type of rules that you would find in a high school. Or is it because they'd never finished high school so their prospects weren't that great later on in life and they resorted to other things. I think it's more like that, right? I think a lot of people that don't complete high school, they're doing that because they're getting out of the environment that they're currently in. So sometimes maybe they're in a bad home and they just can't stay around anymore. And so they flee and they never get back to the school.

But I think you're right. Because of the lack of a high school diploma, it makes it hard. to get into the workforce, or the skilled labor or the white collar style jobs that pay better are outside their reach sometimes because of that. There's definitely a trend

that I'm seeing with not all killers, but it seems like quite a few that we profile. Patrick's first arrest came in Florida in 1986. Later, he moved to Rockingham County,

North Carolina in 1989. Pretty quickly got charged with blackmail. This guy Gibbs was a well-known career criminal. He had a rap sheet a mile long. He was arrested over 30 times in North Carolina alone. And his arrest kind of span the spectrum from bad checks to burglary to you name it. The one thing that he didn't have on his rap sheet was murder. But obviously, we know that's going to change. Records showed that he He also had convictions in Florida, Maryland, West Virginia, and Virginia over the years. So I'm not exaggerating, right?

When I say this guy had a very long record, the Rockingham County Sheriff was quoted to saying he always had a violent street. He was very intimidated and very threatening from his appearance. And we talked about it. This guy was huge. 6.9, maybe 300 pounds. You're not going to miss them. No, you're not going to miss him. probably pretty easy to pick out of a lineup that might play into something later on.

Right. When you see a picture of this guy, aside from how big he is, he just kind of looks menacing. Maybe that was just his mugshot and everybody kind of looks a little menacing in their mugshot. But he does look like someone that I don't think you would want to run into late at night in a dark alley. Now you, I know you don't worry about stuff like that. Nah. You'll run into anybody late at night in a dark alley and sometimes do once or twice a week. Oh, yeah.

Well, just for shits and giggles. Just for fun. Just to see what kind of trouble you can get into. Yeah. The sheriff, though, he also said that this guy was so intimidating. He once scared an elderly man out of testifying against him for extortion. So he had extorted this elderly guy. But the guy was so scared that he was like, you know what, it ain't worth it.

I'm not testifying against this behemoth. I don't need that kind of karma. Because what if he gets off? Yeah. Then he's going to come after me. So when you get arrested that many times, Gibbs, eventually you're bound to go to prison, right? Seems natural.

Burr spent some time in and out of lockup here and there. It really wasn't until 2001 where he got his first big, charge. He was charged with 10 counts of felony breaking and entering and nine counts of larceny. He went to trial. He was found guilty. And then under the sentencing guidelines at the time, he had to serve at least seven years and nine months. So that was the minimum. Okay. That he could serve. The maximum was 10 years in a month. So it's not really much gap. That big of a gap. he ended up serving about eight years. It might have been the minimum seven years and nine months.

It was close to eight. And then he was paroled in April of 2009. So he did a fair amount of time. Yeah. I mean, I don't think eight years of your life spent in prison is anything to sneeze at. But this April parole date is just a few months before he would go on his rampage. And, you know, the thing about it is you can look at this in every case, right? You can ask the what if questions.

What if he was not paroled and had to serve his full sentence? Well, for one thing, he's definitely not out to kill five people in 2009. No. Because he wouldn't have got out for at least two more years. That would put it into 2011. It's a tough game to play, though. I don't know if serving eight years versus 10 is going to change a person. If he didn't change in that eight years, he's still coming out the same person as he would

have if he's hung out two more years. Right. What's the two extra years? I think there are a lot of people, though, that are going to ask this question after the details of his crimes and especially his past come out. Because that's a lot of the things that a lot of people point to when they talk about Patrick Burris is, you know, one investigator said his rap sheet when printed out was 25 pages. I mean, literally not exaggerating,

it was extensive. Now, I think you touched on it, right? The question is, would he have done something similar after getting out two years later? And I say, yeah, possibly. Who knows? There is a big part of me that thinks, you know what, this guy was just a bad seed. He was going to do something bad at some point in time, And whether it was 2009 or 2011, but people really made a big deal about the fact that he should have been kept in longer. And I get that point. I'm not saying I disagree with it. No, you're right.

But we've seen it the other way, too, where somebody with that same sentence would have served maybe two years, three years. That I can see, right? Oh, yeah. But went into eight years out of the 10. Yeah. I think the difference here is you and I are not jumping up and down about. the eight years.

Right. Because we see it all time. You got six months. You got a year for violent sexual crimes. Yeah. Now, according to the Charlotte Observer, Burris had plans to marry his girlfriend that he'd had for two years. So we got to break this down because this one kind of floored me.

So apparently gives this guy was on a work release program during probably the last few years of his prison stent. All right. And somehow he managed to meet and fall in love with a woman. Oh. While he's out working. Okay. Not only that, but apparently he made and saved up quite a bit of money.

From this work release program, it was enough that he was able to buy a truck when he got out. And he told his family that he was looking to buy a house. I found that very odd. That's extremely odd, I think, that the fact that they can make that type of money while they're in prison that we are all paying for. Well, for one thing, you have literally zero expenses. Yeah.

They are giving you your lodging. They're giving you your food. Sure. You and I are paying for all of it. The electricity. I mean, the education if you want it. Yeah. What are you spending your money on?

Ramen noodles. Yeah. And shoes or somehow. I don't know. They even have better medical and dental. All that said, I still don't want to. go. No, you would not do good there. We never talked about this. I would not. So Burris was released in April. He and his fiancee moved into a mobile home in Vail, North Carolina. Burris got a job as a tree

trimmer and the two were making wedding plans. But Burris got arrested on June 12th for driving with a suspended license. I couldn't find the details around it. But my assumption is, yeah, that's going to happen. when you get out of jail, you might want to make the trip to the DMV right away because your license would be suspended, right? You haven't, you've been out of circulation for eight years. Your license is not valid. You would think that jail concierge would have took care of that before release. Like, hey, one of our things that we do, why you stay here is we wanted to make sure that we get you set up for your license. So that you can drive when you're out?

Yeah. So is a concierge, the same thing as a concierge? Or is that what they call it in prison? That's what they call it in prison. Ah, yeah. I was just checking. Yeah, that's prison slang. But I do think that it was this arrest that started Patrick Spiral because most likely he

thought, all right, this is going to revoke my parole, right? You can't be out on parole for a month and get arrested. That's not good. Normally, no, it's not good at all. chances are they're going to send you back and make you finish out the rest of your time. And I'm assuming he did not want to do that. Don't know too many people that do. So just days after this arrest, he up and left the mobile home, left his fiancee and split.

You know, I always say travel light, man. Well, traveling light would mean no fiancee. No. Yeah. That would be the definition of traveling life. That would be traveling light. You know, his fiance's son later said in an interview that he didn't see Burris as a bad guy at the time. There wasn't a lot of time probably that he spent with him.

But he saw him as a guy that was trying to turn his life around. He said he didn't see him with a gun. He didn't see him using drugs. So either Gibbs, he was really trying to walk the straight and narrow. And it was this arrest. And the looking down the. the barrel of possibly going back to prison that spun him. Or he hadn't changed at all.

And people around him just didn't see it. And it was this arrest that was kind of the catalyst for the ramp up. Does that make sense? No, it does. I mean, I think a lot of people walk that line. And I think for some people, it's a very fine line. It's a very fine line. But I also think that, you know, people have one way they present themselves.

in certain an environment, you know, we've seen it with some mega killers that they have this really good family life. But outside of that, they're monsters, man. Yeah. Yeah, I think we've talked about it before. People will show you what they want you to see. Yeah.

And a lot of times that means excluding the bad things, the things that would cause the red flags, they don't want you to see that stuff. If I opened everything up I got, you would never sleep again. No. And it would probably just be like when they opened the, what was it, the Covenant and the Raiders of the Lost Ark. Yeah.

My face would probably just melt. Just like that. Just right down. Just be big, big old skeleton. I wouldn't be able to handle it. Support for the True Crime All the Time podcast comes from our friends at Rocket Mortgage by Quicken Loans. Home is so much more than a house. It's your own little slice of heaven.

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detective. That's huntaciller.com slash T-Cat for 20% off your first box. Huntaciller.com slash T-Cat. It's not just about catching the murderer. It's about the friends you make along the way. So he left the mobile home, left his fiancé. He met up with a brother and sister named Mark and Sharon Stamey. The three began parting. They were drinking. They were using drugs. This guy Mark Stamey later told the Gaffney Ledger that they were introduced to Burris,

who they knew only as Pat, country, or Big C. Big C. So apparently this guy had a lot of Nick. names? Big country. Big country was one. Yeah, I said country, but I think big country was another one, actually. He was, like I said, he was a kind of a big old Buford. But they got introduced to him through a drug dealer. And I've found that's usually the best way to find new friends. Sure. It is to ask your drug dealer to introduce you to a stranger. I think they probably can do the same with love connections. You know, can you hook me if I need to find my next romance?

And the drug dealer's like, I've got it for you. She does or he does the same things that you do. Drugs. Drugs. But the stammies are very important in this story. They didn't kill anyone as far as I know. And obviously they were doing some things that were illegal. But at the end of the day, they're really the window into much of what was going on at the time that Patrick Burris committed his murders because they were with him during this span of time.

pretty much nonstop. They were partying with him before and then later during the killing spree. Burris was supplying them with drugs and always seemed to have a fresh supply of cash to buy the drugs with. The problem is the Stamies didn't know that he was getting this money by shooting people and robbing them. They only knew the truth. Right.

So I mentioned all of the murders occurred with. in a six-day period. They also occurred within about a 10-mile radius. And it was on June 27th, 2009, that Burr shot and killed a peach farmer named Klein Cash, shot him in his living room. His wife was out running errands, came back, found her husband's body in the living room when she got back. She told police that she believed the house was robbed. But she also mentioned. She also mentioned that a man that neither one of them knew as a stranger had come by earlier

asking about the possibility of buying some hay. Four days later Burns shot 83-year-old Hazel Linder and her 50-year-old daughter, Gina Parker. Both women were found bound inside Hazel's

home. Then on July 2nd, Burr shot his last two victims, 45-year-old Stephen Tyler and Stephen's 15-year-old daughter, Abby. Burris walked into their family-owned appliance store and shot them both. Stephen died instantly, but Abby did not. It was the wife and mother that found them both. How shocking would that be to see something like that, the two people that you love the most?

Well, I think it would be shocking to find anyone. dead, right? Shot, murdered. But when you're talking about your entire family, your husband, your daughter, that's something that most people just can't even comprehend. Now, I said Abby didn't die instantly. Unfortunately, she did die a couple of days later from her wounds. It was on July 6th. I'm hoping everybody is getting the time frame here. This is very fast. It's, It's boom, boom, boom, boom, you know. The murders happened in six days. Four days after the last murder, police got a report of a suspicious vehicle, an SUV,

and a possible burglary at an abandoned home in Gastonia, North Carolina. It's about 40 miles from Gaffney. A man called it in as suspicious. He was probably watching out his window as I do for anything out of the ordinary. Man, you go into full SWAT routine. Oh, my gosh. You never know. If someone even puts a toe on your property line.

So I don't know. Well, there's the infrared. There's all the motion cameras. The photo lights always get me. There's the special gibby system, I call it. Now, but he did. He noticed this SUV. He thought, all right, this doesn't seem right.

it's in front of this abandoned house something's going on these people are sitting in their car i'm going to call it in and he was right to also we said 40 miles from gaffney so everybody's on edge there's a killer on the loose you know 40 miles away in gastonia north carolina they knew all about it's 2009 the news is everywhere so i really can't blame this guy the guy that called it in He saw three people get out of the vehicle, walk up to this abandoned house. One of the men that got out of the SUV, he thought, matched the description of the killer. So I mentioned it, right? It's on the news.

He's seen it. He was tall, heavyset, unshaven, wearing a baseball cap. The guy also said that this man was stumbling around as though he was either drunk or, you know, whacked out on drugs. given the track record of Patrick Burris, it could have been either or both. Most likely both. So the three people that got out were Patrick Burris and Mark and Sharon Stamey. The Stamey family actually owned this vacant house that they were getting ready to go into. But before they got in, police rolled up on them.

They were called. They responded. They asked everyone for identification. And Mark Stamey told police that he owned. the house. So they took their identification, wrote it down. They let them all go into the house. But police didn't leave because I think pretty quickly Gibbs, it came back and they figured out that the big guy had given them some false information. They eventually figured out who he was, that he was Patrick Burris and that he had a warrant out for his arrest. And I wondered if they

figured out who he was because of how big he was. Yeah. how big he was. I don't know. The details on that were a little sparse. So I'm not exactly sure how they figured it out. But I think you're probably onto something. There are not too many people that police would encounter that would be 6-9, 300 pounds. Well, I think because his description is out there, it probably doesn't take much to come back and say,

hey, I think we've got something here. Yeah. And that absolutely could have been it. Like I said, I don't know for sure. But however they did it, they figured out that the man was Patrick Burris. So they went up to the house. They knocked on the door and they said they needed to speak with Patrick. It's now about 3 a.m. in the morning.

These people, Patrick, Mark and Sharon, they've been partying all night. They've been drinking. They've been smoking. I think they smoked marijuana. and I think they even smoked a little crack. Okay. Got a mix of everything. So they're pretty out of it.

It was said that Patrick was on the couch when police entered the house. But one thing's for sure. He was definitely not about to let police arrest him. He just wasn't going to do it. And at that size, you could kind of put on a fight. Yeah, I think at that size, it would be tempting to try to tussle with the police. That's not the route that Patrick. Patrick Burris chose, he had his gun with him. And as the police attempted to arrest him,

he grabbed it and he fired a couple of shots, one that struck a Gaston County police officer in the leg. That's not good. Police do not like it when you fire at them. And so they pulled their guns and opened fire and killed Patrick Burris in that house. And I do think, Gibbs, that's something. that police take very seriously, right? They take their own safety seriously, but they also take the safety of their fellow officers very seriously. It's like a brotherhood. Oh, yeah. I think if that situation occurs, they're going to return fire not to wound, but to kill. Well, I don't know if you and I have talked about this before. I don't believe that police officers are trained to wound. I really don't. I mean, if you have an immediate threat like that and a guy should,

shooting a gun at police officers in the house is an immediate threat. Right. I think you're trained to shoot to kill because wounding somebody doesn't always stop them from continuing to fire at you. No, I think if you're going to pull your service weapon, it's because the intention is to kill for the ultimate protection. A threat. Yeah.

Yeah, I've had people talk to me before about and ask me, why do people shoot people in the chest? Why don't they just shoot them in the leg? Why don't they just wound them and then everything's over? Well, it's not always over. You can get shot in the leg and still function. You can definitely still shoot a gun. So if you have a, if somebody has a gun in their hand, shooting them in the leg is no surefire way to end that threat.

Right. That's for sure. The purpose of pulling the weapon is to eliminate the threat at the end of day, right? Yeah, I believe so. Now, you and I are not police officers. I know a lot of police officers. I've shot competitively with a lot of police officers and talking with them. I'm pretty sure that's accurate.

You carry a badge. You drive a weird looking all black car with a siren light that you sometimes put on top. I mean... I may or may not be an honorary slash secret agent type individual. You do some ominous stuff. Yeah. And I also do the police stuff too, but Police arrested both of the stammies and they took them off.

They were taken to the police station, made to give DNA. They questioned them. But they were later released. So the stammies weren't in stymied? They were not stymied. I think they figured out that they were not involved in the murders. Now, like I said, they were doing things that were technically illegal drugs and, and things like that.

Yeah. Mark Stamey later recounted for the paper how as he was being led out of the house and handcuffs, he literally walked by the body of Patrick Burris who was lying on the floor and he saw what looked to be three bullets to the chest. He said blood was coming out of his mouth. So Gaffney authorities find all of this out. And they didn't waste any time, right? Getting over to Gastonia.

it's a 40 mile drive. So I'm sure they got there in 30 minutes probably. They were so excited to find out what was going on. Pretty quickly, police were able to match through ballistics. The bullets found in Patrick Burr's gun to all five victims. So it's lining up, man. Oh, yeah, definitely lined up. Also, Burris drove an SUV with something very distinctive about it.

Yeah. That was known only. two police and a witness, I believe the witness that was able to give the composite sketch, they made an announcement at a press conference the next day. Again, all of this happening so quickly. The Gaston County Police Department responded to a burglary call last night. During that call, a Gaston County police officer was shot. and officers with the Gaston County Police Department returned fire killing the suspect there.

Our investigators with the task force met with the Gaston County investigators today. And that investigation conducted by the task force today, information and evidence collected here in this county in the past nine days, has identified the subject killed in North Carolina Day by the Gaston County Police Department as the same person has killed five people in our community since June of 27th. This individual has 25 pages worth of a rap sheet.

And we can only speculate now what would have happened in this town, in this community, had the justice system lived up to what it was supposed to and put this individual away where he belonged. Through forensics, we're able to prove today that the weapon he shot the officer with last night is the same officer that all five of our victims, the same weapon that all five of our victims were shot with. It angers me as of what he did to this community. I would like to have had the chance, and our investigators would certainly have liked to have the chance to interview him and to find out a little bit more.

But, you know, it doesn't disappoint me greatly, given his condition now, given the fact that not only did he do here, the harm that you all saw and covered all this time, but then he went up there and shot out a police officer up there. So I'm not angry about his current play. So the last guy that talked there, I kind of chuckled a little bit because he said, I'm not angry about his current. plight. Well, his current plight is he's dead. Yeah. He basically saying, I'm not mad that the guy's dead. But he did say something that, that I think is interesting in that, yeah, they would have liked to have talked to this guy. Sure. Because this is one of the big things in this case is why did he kill the people that he killed? Now, we'll talk about it in a minute. We kind of hinted at the fact that there was robbery involved, money for drugs, things like that. But you still would love to get the

chance to interrogate this person. Why did you choose this victim or that victim? And why did you have to go so far? Why did you have to kill him in the first place? You know, the 83 year old woman and her 50 year old daughter were bound. You could have taken everything you wanted. Whatever you took, you could have still taken and left them alive. Or was it the fact that he was just so recognizable because of his stature that unless he killed him, he was going to go eventually be found out and go back to prison. It is a good point, right? If you're 5-11 and wear a mask, yeah, pretty hard to tell who you are.

You're going to blend in with almost, what, 70% of the population? A large, yeah, a large percentage. If you're 6-9-300, well, wearing a lot. a mask helps. Yeah. But it does not ensure your anonymity because there's only so many six, nine, 300 people walking around a town the size of 12,000 people. And you might be the only one.

Unless it's the week that the NBA All-Stars are in town. That's true. You're going to be limited out. Or maybe there is a WWE type event or something like that. You and your WWE. Where else are you going to find people? people of that stature. It's just not all the time.

Now, they also found items in this guy's SUV that linked back to his victims. I don't know exactly what they all are, but again, as you're laying out the details, everything's kind of lining up, right? Ballistics match. You just happen to have items that belong that you most likely took from the home or store of someone that you killed in your SUV. Well, how could that be? See, and this is like Rule 101. You know, you don't keep things in your vehicle when you do bad things like that that tie you back. And you don't drive the same car that you had a sun up come sun down. Yeah,

isn't that chapter three of your book? Used be chapter two. I pushed it out. Oh, did you? You have a new chapter. Yeah. I wanted to like put a chapter in the between one and three. because I felt it was out of place, so I did that recently, yes. All right, so you're telling me that the book, to begin with, only had a chapter one, no, chapter two, and went straight to chapter three. No, no, no. Because that's the way it sure sounded. I just met that I needed to realign the chapters.

Okay. I think what you're saying is you made a new chapter two, which pushed the old chapter two to chapter three. What did I just say it that way? Let me help you out there. Yeah, thank you. By the way, I'm a publisher's nightmare. And a podcaster's nightmare too sometimes.

But indispensable at the same time. Yes. So we talked about the fact that they couldn't question Patrick Burks. He's dead. They needed to figure out, you know, what was the motive for these random killings? They were random, right? There was no link. Some people thought, okay, things were.

taken from their home. They just didn't really know why these people were killed. And I think that's where, you know, some of the information from Mark Stamey really comes in, right? Burris needed money to fuel his drug habit and he got it from his victims. Yeah. And we know, I mean, if you're doing crack, and I don't know how much crack he was doing, but if he was really into crack, you definitely aren't a stable person. I mean, I've seen enough and read enough that crack, puts people into a whole different dimension. Yeah, I'm looking at it right now. I'm seeing this whole other dimension.

See it unfold. We've talked about Mark Stamey quite a bit. I think he is very integral to this case. He later did that interview with the Gaffney Ledger and he said that he was sick after he found out where Burris was getting his money. I think his exact quote was that's what makes me sick, knowing that he was killing those people and stealing money and spending it on us. You know what they say, Gibbs?

You never really know the person that you're smoking crack with. Do you? Not really, man. Can you ever really know who that person is? And Mark said at one point, they were sitting around watching the TV. And the news came on. And of course, they were talking about the murders. And they showed a composite sketch given by a witness.

And Mark said something to Burris along the lines of, hey, man, that kind of looks like you. Patrick got angry and said, no, that doesn't look like me at all. I think Gibbs from the tone of the story, it's, it's very obvious that Mark feels as though he should have put two and two together at some point during this time that he spent with Patrick Burruss. But he was on drugs as well. He was on drugs as well. so was his sister. That's no secret. They admitted it. When you're, when you're doing the drugs they

were doing, when you're drinking the amount they were drinking, you're not thinking rational, logical, any of it. You're not. But when he looks back on it, you know, later on, he's thinking, okay, where's this guy getting all his money? How is he able to keep providing all these drugs? Well, once you know, it's pretty easy to look back and see. Well, sure. Man, I probably should have seen that. I should have noticed something and I didn't. The look back is always the easy part, man. He also has said that he feels it was just a matter of time before both he and his sister would have become a victim of Patrick Burris.

At some point, he was going to shoot them. Well, I believe that because at some point they would have clued in or been a party to one of these killed. And at that point, you know, big guy didn't want big country. Big country. He didn't want anybody around that was going to be able to finger him on these things. Yeah, I think, you know, they would have said the wrong thing. Just a little remark like that about the television news. Yeah.

Hey, you kind of looked like that guy. Yep. The other thing that I believe is this guy wouldn't have stopped. You know, we say that about a lot of killers. I don't think they have any designs on stopping. But for Patrick Burris, I look at it. much differently than let's say a gasey or your quintessential serial killer. I don't think he was satisfying any frog demon or any compulsion or urge.

I think he was simply killing people to get money, to buy drugs. But add on top of that the fact that he had this knowledge that he was most likely going to go back to jail, I think he was just doing whatever he wanted. and was going to kill to do drugs as long as he could. And once he was confronted by police, he was going to go out in a blaze of glory. I think that's the only way this thing could have ended. Yeah, I don't think he had a conscience of what he was doing. You know, he had no problem killing.

And like you said, if he didn't get caught then, it could have been another week, could have been a month before finally somebody was going to have to put him down. Yeah. But he was going to make them put him. down. I truly believe that. Patrick's immediate family at the time, most of them were living in Florida. They released a brief statement to the news. And they said, we have not seen Patrick for many years. And it's a great shock to learn of what he is accused of doing. If the accusations about him are true, he's not the same person we used to know. And if he did indeed do these terrible things,

then our hearts go out to all the families and friends of the people who have died. Nothing that can be said or done will erase what has happened. We are so very sorry for the loss and pain that they must be in. So this came out pretty quickly, right? A statement, I think through a family member. But later on, they did do some interviews. Certain members of Patrick's family, they did some with the Greenville Journal. And they talked about Patrick.

They said they actually called him Tracy. They called him by his middle name. They said they knew he had some problems. But they had no idea that he was capable of what happened. And quite frankly, a lot of them didn't believe he did it. A couple of family members said that they weren't convinced that he committed the crimes. One family member said that the evidence didn't convince them. So ballistics was not good enough?

them finding some of the things from the victim in his car. Again, this is a tough one, right? Because technically, unless I missed it and they did it after the guy's death, he was never convicted of the crimes. And could he be,

I don't know, you and I have asked that question before. If you can't defend yourself. How can you go on trial? You can't go on trial. But anyway, it's always strange. But if you were not guilty of any,

anything, then why shoot it to police? That's true. Right? I mean, if you're not guilty, why not just go ahead and... Well, I think they could make the argument that he didn't want to go back to prison, so he was going to fight his way out of it, but that doesn't mean he killed these people. I think is... It's what they're saying.

I get it. But, you know, but they probably know the man as they remember versus maybe not the person that was doing the drugs and alcohol, right? Because, again, you do that type of... You do. crack and drink, you are not the person that you are typically seen as. Yeah, I do think his family did know about his problems with drugs. Now, I don't know if they knew the extent that he was into them during the last two or

three weeks. They knew about his convictions. But I think in the end, they just couldn't bring themselves to believe that this man that they knew was capable of shooting five innocent people. but one reason that the family gave in this interview for not thinking that he was capable was because I guess he once entered a tough man contest but fled the ring the minute that his opponent punched him the very first time so what does that mean you you can't shoot a gun you can't kill five people because what you're afraid to get hit I just thought it was a very

strange thing to say it that is a strange thing to say as you're reasoning for why you think somebody couldn't be a stone cold killer because they ran out of the ring one time. Maybe you needed to use the restroom. Maybe. Maybe had some of those sugar-free gummy bears and they kick in like very fast. When it happens, you got to go. But you know, what happened in this case, Gibbs, and I think it happens in a lot of cases, kind of mentioned it. There was a ton of scrutiny on the system that let Patrick Burr. us out, I don't think you and I had as much of a problem with this one as we've had with a number of people in previous cases getting slaps on the wrist time after time. Like you said,

eight years is a fairly long time out of 10. Right. To basically serve. But you heard the guy in the clip say, you know, this guy had a 25 page rap sheet. And I think, I don't know if he said it in this clip, but at one point he said, the citizens of South Carolina deserved better than to have a person with this kind of rap sheet running around on the streets day and day out with them. Right. You know, he said it. He thought the system let everyone down, releasing Burris, even though he was well known to be a violent offender in multiple states. Some of the papers talked about emails that started to come in. to the Cherokee County Sheriff's Office after all of this news broke, I guess officers from

all kinds of different states, Gibbs, started emailing the sheriff saying, this guy was bad. You know, we charged him on this. One guy said, we, we charged him on 25 counts. So I think that's where you get into, you know, maybe not so much just the eight year sentence that he did, but it was all the other stuff that when you looked at it in totality, you think this guy probably should have been away for much longer, for a variety of different things. So as we're wrapping up this episode, I stumbled upon some information about Gaffney, aside from the fact that they had a serial killer in the late 1960s, but I guess they are known, Gaffney is for their big million gallon water tank.

That's a big one. As far as water tanks go, it seems like a million gallons is a lot. But I think my first wife would have used it all in the shower. Yeah, she took the longest showers ever, man. My oldest daughter, she can drain a hot water heater by herself. Yeah. So it's like everybody has to have a schedule and it has to be worked around my oldest daughter because if everybody tries to take a shower in the morning and she's up first,

the rest of us are S-O-L. So some people have to take one the night before. It's a whole thing. And I have a big water heater. It's not like I got some little, you know, mini water heater. That's scary, man, because you want a hot shower, you know? I move it into that apartment and it's just me, but it's a two-bedroom. And I swear, I'm only in the shower like five, not even 10 minutes. and it starts getting cold. I asked the people, I said, I'm just curious. I at least a two bedroom. It means that typically at least two people, if not more, would live there.

I'm cold in the shower after seven minutes. They're like, oh, no, that's normal, standard. I'm like, no, it's not standard. It's not. Nothing about that standard. And here's my K-bar to prove it. Yeah, it's my K-bar. It's not standard.

But so this big water tank, I guess it's painted to look like a giant peach. and it even has like a green leaf coming down. Yeah. It's huge. But the thing about it, so they call it the peachoid. And I guess it was featured on the Netflix show House of Cards. Yeah. Because Kevin Spacey's character before he got kicked off the show was from the town of Gaffney, South Carolina, his fictional character. I just found that very interesting as well.

Yeah, that was a pretty popular show. It was very popular. It was one of the first really big Netflix original series. Kind of kickstarted all of these Stranger Things and Mind Hunter and, you know, just all of these shows now that Netflix puts out. And the same with Hulu and Amazon and all these other ones too. At least you said all the name's right. I usually do. But that's it.

That's it for the case of. Patrick, Tracy Burris. I thought it was a different type of case, especially coming off of the behemoth that was John Wayne Gacy. And I like how we went down a little branch to talk about the other than individual back in 1968. Yeah, I thought it was a good tie-in. It was also needed, though, because, you know, like I said, after I got into this case,

there wasn't as much out there on it as I originally thought in my first review of it. But I think it adds to the story because that same fear that people felt in 68 came back again in 2009. Well, there were people living in Gaffney that experienced it in 68 and they were like, oh, it's back. Yeah. This is exactly what we experienced 41 years ago. That's easy for one generation to see both. Yeah. Yeah, it really is.

Well, we got some voicemails. You want to hear those? Yeah. Hello there, Mike's this is Mel from England. Gibby will know me from accidentally joining T-Cat Fit. I've got a couple of questions for you, one serious and one not so serious. Are there ever any serial killers that make you not sleep at night and you just can't get out of your head? I mean, I'm a nurse and I've developed a sort of sardonic sense of humour to deal with it.

but there are things sometimes that make me not sleep and feel sick to my stomach I mean obviously these stories do but I'm talking about the really bad ones second question do you ever just laugh and have to cut it out I mean some of the names they can't actually be real the ones that you read out they've got to be a joke yeah so do you ever laugh and have to cut it out thanks a lot bye Gibbs, does she say she accidentally joined T-Ket Fit?

Yeah, so we had the fitness page. Right. And then she has, she wanted the group page. She's like, wait, I don't know what this fit stuff's about. I'm not into that. Yeah, yeah. She's actually really funny. Yeah.

She's over there in the Great Britain area. I don't think they call it the Great Britain. I think they just call it Great Britain. Great Britain. So to answer her questions, and it's, I think they're going to be different. I don't want to speak for you. for me personally there's nothing that keeps me up at night there's nothing that really makes me sick to my stomach yeah i think that says something about me and it may not be a great thing it might be

that i've become somewhat desensitized and i'm worried you know but i don't know that it is because i was never really like that yeah and same for me i mean the only thing well one i'm not a sleeper anyway I might sleep three hours a night. And it's not something that's keeping me from sleeping. But if I was going to lose sleep over something, it'd be like, what do you mean they're getting rid of Twizzlers? No, there are things, though, that turn your stomach. There's things that turn my stomach.

Yeah. The kid stuff. There are things that visibly affect you. Yes. I won't eat. Yes. So you and I are a little different in that way. And again, you're more sensitive.

you're that Keanu Reeves Lakehouse type sensitive guy. I'm more of the Patrick Swayze Roadhouse. Nothing affects me. I'm glad we got that out there. I'm just throwing that out there for everybody. That's good. I've never actually seen the Lakehouse, but I think I've heard somebody talk about it before

that it's kind of a strange movie where he's like super sensitive or something. I don't know. You're assuming I watch it Yeah, and I know you did. So the answer to the second question is we laugh all time. We cut up, we make mistakes. So there is editing.

Oh, yeah. In the podcast. And we know that some of the names that people give clearly aren't their real names. Yes. And either they're toying with us for fun or it's just something they like to do. Yeah. And we're okay with it. But Gibby actually cracks up a lot of times on some of the names.

And some we leave in. unless I think it makes it makes him look bad. I might take it out. I might go too far. Sometimes. Yeah. Sometimes.

Hi, true crime all the time. I have been listening to your show for quite a while now and have listened to every single episode. But this week I got super duper thinking and so I love when I fall behind because I get to have a true crime all the time marathon as well as criminology.

So I'm really looking forward to listening to like six different episodes this week. again to get caught back up. I just wanted to say that I really love your baby with banter and the relationship that you have. I actually called you guys my true crime dad for a while until I realized through your banter who, that you guys are probably fairly close to my age, so you're not actually my dad, but I do like that you're both dads and you're very mindful, especially of women,

and specifically women of color, which I think a lot of people kind of sidestep a lot of hands on their shows and I think that you guys love that you make it a point and you make it part of the story and make it something that people really think about. So anyways, I just wanted to say thank you for everything that you guys do. And

I am actually team for V because he is the one that answered my email that I emailed about a podcast about podcast advice because my husband and I are going to be joining a true crime podcast which I'll be sure to let you guys know about when we get our first episode out.

Anyways, you guys are really awesome. Thank you for all that you do. And keep your own time ticking. And it's not that I'm not team giddy, but I just, my focus is a good man. So I just wanted to say that. Thank you so much. Have it a great week. Bye.

Well, he is a good man, but he's also the only one that has the key to the email address that you email to. That is true. And that cost me a pretty penny to get her to say that. Yeah, yeah. And everybody says they listen to every episode, not too. How many people will have found episode 88 and a half? Oh.

The one that we buried out there? Does that go back to your Hogwarts, how you get on the Hogwarts train thing? Is that nine and a half? Something like that, nine and three quarters. But I will say this. I appreciate her voicemail. It was very thoughtful. The kudos and us trying to be respectful.

And we do. I mean, obviously we try to keep things light, but we try to do it in a way that is not disrespectful to anyone except for killers. I don't mind being disrespectful to killers. Right. I don't think anybody else does either. No. Hi, Mike. My name is Shelby.

I'm a long-time listener, T-Cat. I'm calling all the way from Kingston, Ontario. I actually am named out of a movie. And I wanted to call and give you some hints to what the movie is to see if you could guess what it is. I'll tell you who it stars. So there's Sally Field, Dolly Parton, Julia Roberts, Shirley MacLean. There's a big scene and a hairdresser where they're all laughing and talking. and the main character has a problem with her diabetes and there's a big wedding and oh it's just it's a great movie i have a feeling might get it right away

anyway thanks for uh have an awesome podcast guys and stay safe and keep uh your own time taken so before you answer pretty cool right somebody leaves in a trivia question i like that well when she said shelby then i knew when she started talking i knew it was the one that julia roberts played shelby if i don't remember the name of the movie, but I knew like Shirley McLean was in it. She already said all that. Did she say, but Sherry MacLean? Yeah. Yeah.

She named all the big stars. So what, Julie Roberts dies in the end. Well, now you just gave it away for everybody. Well, that's old. I was thinking it was maybe fried green tomatoes. No, it's not that. See, I don't watch a lot of those types of movies. No, it's not that.

It's something like that. It's like, it's still magnolias. Still magnolius. See, again, I haven't seen that. I haven't seen still magnolias. I haven't seen fried green tomatoes. I just don't watch a lot of movies like that. Hey, Mike and Gibby.

This is India from Arcadia, Florida. I just wanted to say that I love your podcast, and I listen to it every day while I get over mail, and it really makes my day go by faster. I was also wondering if you guys would be interested in some Carolina Reaper beef jerky. I don't know how much you guys like hot stuff, but we got some pretty good stuff down here.

Well, thank you for everything you do, and keep your own time picking. And team giddy here. Bye. I love you too. Mike. Bye. That's awesome.

I don't know, Gibbs. Carolina Reaper sounds awesome. So here's where I'm at on the Scoville scale. Are you familiar with the Scoville scale? I am not. Okay. That's the scale of how hot it is. Yeah.

I like hot and I think you do too. Yeah. I don't like it when it gets so hot that I really can't taste anything. I like the heat, but I still want to be able to taste every. Yeah. Does that make sense? It makes sense. Like sometimes these atomic wings, they're so hot. Like I don't even taste what I'm eating. Yeah, your tongues is on fire. Yeah, that's too much for me. I can eat them, but I don't enjoy it.

Gives we had mailbag. Okay. Michelle Schultz sent us some alien fresh jerky, speaking of beef jerky. Awesome. Thank you. It says filet mignon. Oh. Or I know, as you would say, fillet mignon. Exactly. Either way, it's good stuff. Yeah. She also sent some Harley chips. Okay. And then Natasha service sent us some homemade pumpkin bread. Awesome. As well as a Harley chip as well. Like that. So appreciate all that.

All right. That's it. It's it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gabby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.