True Crime All The Time - Patrick Wayne Kearney

Episode Date: February 26, 2018

In the 1970s, Patrick Wayne Kearney would target homosexual men, murdering as many as 28 and maybe even into the 40s. Whatever the true number is, Kearney is one of the most prolific serial killers in US history. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss this less known but extremely prolific serial killers. Kearney would develop his MO over time which would include dismemberment and the use of trashbags to dispose of the body parts. This would lead to the press dubbing him "The Trashbag Killer". Kearney also developed a fascination with other serial killers including Dean Corll. He would study them extensively.You can help support the show by going to patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact and merchandise information.Help support our sponsor Havenly! Go to havenly.com and use the promo code TCATT to get 25% off your design package. Let Havenly help you design the room of your dreams.Credits:Writing/Research - Maggie DobschuetzSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 67 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime Mike Gibson. Gibby what's going on? Hey man. What's happening? I'm doing really well. Same here, man. I like to hear it. All right Gibbs. We got a lot of new Patreon supporters. So let's get right into it. Let's roll it. We had Jan Bornhouser. Sid Waddell came out our highest level. Sid like that. Cool name. Jennifer Willis. Yeah. Adrian Phillips. Awesome. Megan Caris.

Lisa Davies. Abigail Milner Sweetser. Yeah. The old sweetser. The old sweetser. Meg Marhofer. Okay. Tracy Benedictson Holtham.

Oh, that's a mouthful. It is. And Tracy's pretty active on social media. I think she threw that middle one in there just to hear me say it. Just to mess with you? Yeah, probably. Yeah. Debbie Stevens Creed.

Yeah. Tamara Daniel. Tamara. Stephanie Thomas. Osamu Kranzwick. The old Kranzwicker. Yeah, very cool name. Yeah.

Nicole Barbian came out our highest level after last week supporting us on PayPal. What's up with that? It's amazing. Like that. Kim Weeks, Carrie Snodgrass, Nanners Thompson. Oh, Nanners. That is a cool name. It is.

What's you doing this weekend? Going to see Nanners. Right. Manors. We had Keita Palace, who was another person that supported us on PayPal last week. Yeah, jumped on over. Amazing. And then we have Samantha S. Yep.

One of our all-time favorites, Gibbs, supported us this week on both PayPal and Patreon. She's the best. And has been a longtime Patreon supporter. And we just think the world of her, wish her nothing but the best. Oh, yep. Always thinking for her. Yeah, always thinking about. her. We had Rhonda Lightner. And then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Carol.

Carol. No last name, but Carol knows who she is. We know who she is. We know who she is. She's been with us forever, big on social media, always touting T-Cat. She does, man. Always has. And so we appreciate that longtime support. And we appreciate all the new support. And then on PayPal, we had Anna Erickson, Erica Klingen, Caitlin Fardella, and Douglas Pulling. Wow. Yeah. All right. Thank you so much.

We've had a lot of support lately. We appreciate it. We had so much Patreon support Gibbs. I had to carry some of it over to next week. So want to give a big shout out to Maggie for the writing and research. Always a great job. Don't forget about CrimeCon. If you're going, use code T-Cat.

Oh, and real quick, I just want to be. I want to give a quick shout out to Sky and Taylor, and they know why. Nobody else does, but they do. That's right. I don't even know. It's that good. It's a super top secret. Gibby secret.

Givey secret. That's like above top CIA clearance. Okay. And then I just want to tell everybody about criminology. Season two, episode one is out right now. Awesome. We are doing a full 12 episodes on the East Area. rapist, the Golden State Killer, original Nightstocker. I mean, this guy's got a lot of different

names. Yeah, this is going to be good stuff too. It really is. I can't stress the amount of work that's gone into it. I mean, we have interviews with the original detectives, the cold case detectives now. Yeah. Actual victims, victims' families. He might even let me come on it and say a few Ghibie's going to be on it. We have a lot of your favorite podcasters are actually participating in some form or fashion. So it's out now. Check it out. Subscribe. Give it a listen. And then don't forget about true crime all time unsolved. This week, we are doing the yogurt shop murders, Austin, Texas. Yes. Infamous, infamous case that, you know, a lot of people know about heartbreaking, but you got to listen. It's a good one. It is a fascinating, unsolved case. But yeah, heartbreaking. Always.

All right, Gibbs, you ready to get into our subject for this week. Let's do it. We are talking about Patrick Wayne Kearney. So you know it's bad when you start off with three names. Yeah. And the guy, we have to say three names because if your name is Patrick Kearney, you in no way want to be associated with this Patrick Kearney because he was, was a very, very bad guy. He would be labeled as the trash bag killer. I've seen some people call him

the freeway killer. I don't like that one as much because there's a lot of people that kind of get that moniker. It's kind of a regional tag. I think a lot of people are called the freeway killer. The trash bag killer is really the most, I guess, app description or the best moniker for him. You got to have a moniker. You got to. You just want to say the word moniker. I did. It's moniker. But in the 70s, Patrick Kearney would target homosexual men, murdering as many as 28.

Wow. Maybe even into the 40s. That's huge. Police think it could be into the 40s. But whatever the number is, Gibbs, Patrick Kearney is one of the most prolific serial killers in U.S. history. He's up there. Yeah, he really is. I mean, you think about those numbers, they are staggering, but not the name recognition, right?

Maybe of some of other types of serial killers that have a much lower count. And you and I have talked about this before, you know, what captures the public's fascination? You know, we did the night stalker. That's a person that captured. Yes. The nation. And even the world to some extent. Stent didn't kill near as many people as this guy.

Right. But it was all the build up around. There's really like a bunch of factors it seems like that come together. Right. You know, look at Manson. Yeah. Technically, you could say maybe he didn't kill anyone. Right.

He was the influence. He was the driving fours. Right. But Patrick Kearney was born on September 24th, 1939. He was born to George and Eunice Kearney in East Los Angeles, California. Now, there are some records out there online that have him being born in Texas. But those are erroneous because his real records indicate that he was born in East L.A. So I don't know why there's some conflicting information about that.

But there is. But there is. Now, when Kearney was four years old, his brother Michael was born. July 19th, 1944. Patrick would start primary school in September of that year. He would have another baby brother named Chester born the next year in August. So he's five years old. Right.

He has two younger brothers at this point. And probably the first thing that captivated me about Patrick Kearney doing the research was that you find out that he started having thoughts about killing as early as age eight. Wow. Eight years old. That's extremely early. What is that like second grade? Second grade maybe, third, yeah. No, second grade, probably.

For me, both years. Yeah. Billy Madison? Billy Madison. He's going to be a soccer player. Yes, he is. But that just blows you away to think about an eight-year-old having homicidal thoughts. Yes, that is.

That's scary. That's downright scary. Have you ever had any thoughts like that? Homicidal? Yeah. Oh, I've had homicidal thoughts. thoughts. Yeah.

But I sure as hell wasn't having them as an eight-year-old. I had some earlier when you and I were eating pizza and I felt like you took more than your share. What were you going to do? I don't know. I don't want to... Do you want me to get my knife out? I don't want to give my hand away.

Yeah. No. Did you have your hand taken away, but... I don't know, Gibbs. To be honest with you, have I really ever had homicidal thoughts? I don't think so. Okay. I've had flashes of like some pretty intense anger.

Right. But never. sitting around like, no, you know, so like Billy Madison, right? We just talked about it. Right. Steve Busemi has a great, is a great character in that movie. He is. Where he's in the basement. He's wearing lipstick and he's, he's got his list of all the people that he's writing down. Not to that extent, right? I've never made a list. I've never thought of those type of thoughts. Right. But I've had some flashes of like anger in an instant. That's good to know. You would do well not to get involved in one of those instances.

Stay clear. Now, when he was 11 years old, his father moved the family to Recita, California. And his dad was actually a police officer. And this comes up quite a bit. How many serial killers have we profiled whose fathers have been police officers? Seems like quite a few. There's been a couple. I mean, a handful.

Yeah. But in Reseda, Patrick would be a victim of bullying at school. And we know Gibbs right now in our current society, that's a huge issue. It is huge. It always has been huge. And that's exactly the point that I was going to make because we're talking about, what, here, 1950s? Right.

And you know this type of bullying has, now we, back then they didn't have the social. Yeah. I mean, there's different levels of a bullying, right? I mean, now, you mean, you could be away from everybody and they're still bully you. Like you said, on social media, so you can't escape it back in 1950s? Sure, there was bullying going on. Yeah, it's not a new phenomenon. But I think the social media really adds like a whole other dimension.

Oh, definitely. It's another whole layer and really compile on. But a couple of things about Patrick, he was very thin. He was sickly as a child and probably contributed to him being bullied. I would think so. Yeah. Not right at all, but looking at. at reasons why somebody, you know, would bully another person. Those are oftentimes the people

that get bullied. Yeah. Just quit bullying people, people. You know, the 6-2-250 guy is not the guy getting bullied most of the time. No, no. It's normally, you know, the old pick on the week. Yeah, it is. It's the people that can't defend themselves. And it gets really sad. It's the whole reason we have Marines, man. They defend and stand up against the That's the reason I got you. That's exactly right. Now, when he was 13 years old, his dad would teach him how to kill pigs. And you and I, just last week, we're talking about butchering pigs on the Unsolved episode.

Yep, we did. And how you had learned in your early years. That's right. But in this instance, his dad would actually show him the process of shooting the pig behind the left ear. And Kearney would take this information. and then use it later to kill animals on his own, right? He wasn't killing a pig because it was going to be butchered and it was going to be used for food. He was just finding random animals using the skills that his dad had taught him to kill animals.

Yeah, just to see the results. But he didn't just kill them. Apparently, he enjoyed rolling around in the blood, the gun. the guts. Really? Of a dead animal that he had killed himself. Okay. So we're getting into some very strange things here. He's just like the warmth of the blood and wanted to roll around in it?

I don't know. I didn't talk to him. You know? I didn't. I'm just trying to... I missed his call last week so I didn't get the lowdown. Yeah. I was just trying to, you know. You're just offering up theories.

Yeah, maybe he just wanted to fill that hot, warm blood all over his body. I don't know, but it's, I don't care what you come up with. It's not going to satisfy me as a good reason. No good reason. Yeah. Now, 14, he starts junior high. And he would attend a school. It's actually a special education center in Recita.

And during his teen years, this is when he starts to really withdraw, spending most of his time by himself, a lot of his free time living in a fantasy world. Now, a lot of kids do that. Yeah. They develop a fantasy world. A lot of adults do that. Yeah, I know you do it. I do.

I'm in my fantasy world now. The problem with Patrick Kearney's fantasy world is it involved him wanting to kill people. Yeah, I can see that. It was said that he was bullied at this school as well, but he's not going to be in recita very long. The family moves to Wilcox, Arizona. He starts attending Wilcox Middle School, but they don't stay there very long either. The father moves the family.

back to California, Redondo Beach. Kearney goes to high school there and he actually graduates in 1957. And after he finished high school, his family moved to Houston. But he wasn't having it. You know, his family was in Houston. He wanted to be back in California. So he moves to California on his own to attend community college. Okay.

That didn't last long though because he joins the Air Force. So I don't think college was for him. and he gets stationed in Texas. So it kind of comes full circle. Didn't work in his favor. But it's in Texas. He's 20 years old that he would meet a man named David Hill. And David Hill is a huge part of this story.

They started out as friends, but the relationship evolved and the two became lovers. Okay. So we have to talk about David Hill a little bit. Born and raised in Texas, he was the seventh of. nine kids came from a very poor family, but they were very religious. His father hung himself in a city jail cell. Probably not real good for a kid's psyche. No, that can't be good. You know, you lose your father figure and then to lose him in that way, even worse. That's rough. For sure, for someone that age, stay out of jail. So your kids don't have to go through that. Right. Life lessons

from Gibby. I know. You ever been a show? No. I don't know. Have you? So what happens after? You want to hear more about David Hill? Yeah.

Okay. Let's talk about David Hill. That's what I thought. Start asking questions. David drops out of high school in 1959, joins the army, got discharged pretty quickly for some type of medical issue. He went back to Texas, married his high school sweetheart, but that marriage didn't last very long. So just a little bit about on David Hill. I don't have a ton on him, but like I said, he's a central figure in this story.

Now, in 1961, Patrick Kearney gets dishonorably discharged from the U.S. Air Force. He's in this relationship with David Hill at this point. They would move together to Long Beach, California. And this is going to be an on and off again relationship over a span of 15 years between Patrick Kearney and David Hill. You know, at one point, Hill moves back to Texas, reunites with his wife. They actually have a child during this span. Really?

But eventually, he would come back to Patrick Kearney. So that's why I say, you know, on and off again. But one thing about Kearney, while he's living in California, it was said that he developed skills at picking up men. He frequented the San Diego area, but he also traveled. down to Tijuana. Hey, you've been there. I have been there. Tijuana. I have been to Tijuana. I haven't been to places, but Tijuana is one. I've been to San Diego. Yeah, I have been to San, well, that's when I went to Tijuana when I was in San Diego. It was right there. I had a scary situation in Tijuana.

But you came back and you hung out with the Diegoans. San Diegoans, yep. That's what our buddy Ron would say. But Kearney used the fact that he was fluent in Spanish to, you know, help attract these men in Tijuana. And we talked about Kearney and Hill having this on and off again relationship. And it's important because it's during one of these breaks that Patrick Kearney would start his spree of murder. And it would be an unknown 19 year old hitchhiker who Kearney picked up on his motorcycle. He would shoot this guy in the head, sexually assault him, and then mutilate him. And then mutilate his body. And he ended up disposing of the body by throwing it off Highway 86. And this is 1962. So at this point, Kearney's around 22, 23 years old. Yeah, that seems about right. By your math,

you're doing the math in your head. All right. We're just going to make sure. Keep me honest. I know. That's why I'm here. And Kearney's second victim would be in that same year, 1962, and it would be the cousin of the 19-year-old, his first victim, because this individual apparently had witnessed his cousin drive off with Kearney. So I guess Patrick felt like that was too big of a gamble. After he killed the 19-year-old, he had to eliminate that witness. I get where he's coming from. It scares me that you do, but I understand it. Okay. In his mind, I get it too. From his perspective, I guess I would get it what he was thinking.

He had to cover his tracks. But he would take a third victim in that year, 1962, and it would be an 18-year-old named Mike. I don't like that, Gibbs. I don't either. Both this individual named Mike and the cousin of the first victim were killed. They were sodomized, both of them, and dumped just like the first victim. So he's establishing his M.O. pretty quickly. I mean, his first three kills happen in pretty much the same way. And it's not too long after this third murder that David Hill comes back to Patrick Kearney. And Kearney's happy to have him back. Patrick has kind of developed a nice life for himself. He's got a nice apartment in Long Beach. He's working as an aeronautical engineer. It was said Gibbs. He was making about 20,000. dollars a year in 1963 working as a senior research assistant for Hughes aircraft.

Yeah, that'd be over 10 grand a month now. Which would be like, what, 120,000 a year? Yeah. Pretty good money. Pretty good money. But David Hill didn't have a job. So basically, Kearney is supporting them both. It did cause some issues between the two.

It does in today's world. It normally does. Sure. Money, inequity. in situations like that can often cause, you know, big time issues to crop up. Absolutely, it does. Now, the pair would move to Culver City, and this is where Hughes Aircraft was located. Our buddy Howard Hughes?

Howard Hughes. Very an interesting guy. He was very reclusive. We talked about him a little bit last week. We did, yeah. On unsolved. But it's at this point where their relationship starts having some major issues. And again, I think it's a cycle, right?

They get along for a while. They hit a rough patch. Hill leaves. Eventually he comes back and the cycle keeps playing itself out like that. But Kearney buys a house in Redondo Beach. And it's during this point in time that he starts making a lot of trips across the border into Mexico. And it's thought that he committed quite a few murders while he was there.

And he would stay for a few days, abduct someone, shoot them. sodomize them, mutilate the body, and then dump the body. Right? This is what this guy does. That's just crazy. I mean, it really is. And we're talking about all young boys, young men, and then he would travel back across the border, probably in time to make it to work. The problem is it's it's virtually impossible to know how many people he might have killed in Mexico. The other thing that happened as a result of kind of this tumultuous relationship between Kearney and Hill was that Kearney would take very long drives to escape the fighting. And it would be during these times that he would pick up victims. So he would pick up hitchhikers or he would pick up men from a gay bar.

Right. He would kill them, sodomize them, sometimes mutilate the body. and I'm saying those things in a very specific order. The killing happened first. You know, Patrick Kearney was into necrophilia. See, we just go to a whole other level. Yeah. Yeah.

This guy was at a, uh, at another level. I know we say that. That's, uh, wow. Okay. I mean, he could have very easily Gibbs gone to a gay bar, probably picked someone up. Yeah. had consensual sex. Should be pretty easy.

And then moved on. Yeah, but no. It's not what he wanted. That's not what he wanted. He wanted to kill the person, sodomize them after death. Man, I don't know. It almost, it's beyond words.

Yeah. Gives you the shivers. Now, I was believed that David Hill did accompany Patrick Kearney on some of these trips. And we'll get into it later because there is a lot of speculation. about how much David Hill knew, how much participation he had in some of these crimes. Now, Kearney's fourth victim was a man from Mexico named George. This murder occurred in December of 67 in Tijuana. He was shot in the head while he was sleeping, placed in a bathtub, and sodomized.

Kearney would dismember him and bury him outside. But I talked earlier about, you know, how would they know, how many men he may have killed in Mexico, right? The number could be astounding, but he did stick to a pretty particular M.O. And so, you know, I think that's one thing that kind of helped the police maybe after the fact, try to figure out who might have been potential victims in Mexico. But we know that there were a lot of victims of Patrick Kearney. You know, like we said, he would go to gay bars, he picked up hitchhikers along the freeway.

but one thing that is interesting in particular is the fact that he had a habit of choosing men that were bigger than he was, which is not normal. That's not normal. Normally you're going to pick a victim that you feel confident that you can handle. Yeah. Right? I mean, that just makes common sense. You would think.

Yeah, it's just normal sizing up, but, you know. But that's not Patrick Kearney. He's looking for more of a challenge maybe. Well, he subdued his victims by shooting them in the temple above the ear with the 22, especially hitchhikers. He would do that while he was driving. Sounds a lot like what his father taught him in killing pigs. But I think the reason Gibbs that he picked bigger guys was that those were the guys that bullied him as a kid, right? Sure.

That's what we talked about. A little revenge time, huh? He was bullied severely. I'm sure it was always bigger kids. So when he's picking his victims, he's getting back at those bullies. And when it came to hitchhikers, he would shoot them in the head. And then he would drive to a secluded area. He would take off their clothes, sodomize them, and then leave them on the side of the road.

In almost all of these instances, you know, the victims were found nude. And some of the victims that he did this to were, you know, victim number five, John Demichick. He was killed in 1971 in June. He was only 13 years old. He was hitchhiking. He was picked up by Patrick Kearney. His body would not be found until February of 1973. Wow. Almost two years. That's a long time, man. Before they would find him. So obviously, his body was not left just on the side of the road. So he was. So he was. he picked up John on a street corner in Englewood, California, killed him in his car, drove 15 miles to a secluded area, dragged him out of the truck, and hid the body, essentially, in a gully. But, you know, again, did all the things that are included in his MO. We're going to be saying that a lot. This guy was very specific. He knew what he wanted to do.

James Barwick was found September 22nd, 9. 1973. He was 17 years old, another hitchhiker shot in the back of the head. In August of 1974, Kearney would select his youngest victim. It Gibbs, this is going to be a five-year-old. He abducts five-year-old Ronald Dean Smith from Lennox, California, and he would torture this poor kid for days. A five-year-old? A five-year-old kid. Are you kidding me? Torture a five-year-old? old. This guy's, I'm telling you, he's an absolute monster. And eventually, he suffocated this boy and dumped his body. And it wouldn't be found for a couple of months. And that's just, that's brutal to think about a five year old. That happening to a five year old. His next victim was 21 year old

Albert Rivera. He was killed on April 13th, 1975. And Kearney shot him in the head, but then took him back to his house. So he's starting another trend. Yeah, he sodomized this victim at his own house. So, you know, we kind of talk about, remember Herb? Herb Balmeister. Yeah, remember how he was pretty good at picking up and getting rid of his victims. And then he got sloppy, he started bringing him back to the house.

Yeah. They all ended up getting sloppy and they start bringing people back to the house and then other things happen. Yeah, and I don't even, I don't know if it is sloppy or. they need something else. Yeah. You know, is it that that, that MO works for a while for them. And then they need to change it up to get the same excitement. Yeah.

Yeah. Or, you know, that level of excitement's not there anymore with that set of circumstances. So they're sick head. They're spicing it up somehow. Maybe. Yeah. Maybe. But it would be, I mean, that's a big difference to all of a sudden start bringing people home.

But it's what he did. when he got the victim home. Put him in the bathtub. Yeah. Drained all of his blood. So, which is sick. And, you know,

we even had an episode on Unsolved last week where we talked about the draining of blood, you know. But, I mean, you've got to know what you're doing. But it's with this Albert Rivera after he's drained the body of all its blood, he would use a hacksaw

to cut the body apart and he would place the body parts into trash bags. Here we go. This is where we get the trash bag killer. Right. He would then take the trash bags and dump them along the freeway. And I think that's why some people call him the freeway killer. Yeah.

But he would go out to the desert. He would go into a canyon. Sometimes he would just go to a landfill and throw a bag there. He would spread them out. But this is where he gets the. name. In November of 75, he murders a man by the name of Larry Walters in the exact same way as Albert Rivera. He was shot, sodomized, dismembered, drain the blood, used the hacksaw, put the pieces in trash bags. So again, once he gets and once he changes that MO, seems like he sticks

with it for a period of time. He sure does. The next victim was 17 year old Billy, Benafil, and his body has never been found. He accepted a ride from Kearney because his bright broke down. Kearney picks him up off the side of the road, shoots him in the back of the head, takes him back to his house, and does the exact same thing that he did with his previous two victims. So you don't drain the blood and then take the hacksaw and bag him up? Yeah, but because he had dumped all these bags in different locations, especially in a landfill. You dump something in a landfill. What's the chance that somebody's going to discover that inside that bag is a body? Pretty slim. Pretty slim, right? Once it goes to a landfill, none of the body parts of Billy

have ever been recovered. Kenneth Buchanan was a 17-year-old. Kearney murdered March 76, picked him up on the side of the road. Now this one's a little different. Shot him in the back of the head. He did sodomize this 17-year-old, but he was left to die on the side of the road. So something changed here in this encounter. Now, in that same month, March of 76,

later in that month, Kearney would kill 13-year-old Oliver Malter. And this starts a stretch where Patrick Kearney is starting to pick younger, victims. Malta's body was found in various places in Palos Verdes. And this is another situation where Patrick Kearney picked someone up hitchhiking. He killed this 13 year old boy, used the hacksaw, got rid of the body parts, in trash bags. And he really starts ramping up here, Gibbs. So he's killed two people in March of 76. He's going to kill another two individuals in April.

The first was a 15-year-old hitchhiker. M.O. Exactly the same. Shot in the back of the head. All the same things. Dismembered trash bag. And then later on, he's going to lure an eight-year-old boy by the name of Merle Chance into his car.

He abducts this boy, does some of these heinous things that he has done to other victims, ultimately smothers him to death. I mean, he just keeps going to different levels. man, not in a good way. And this would be a situation where he would dump the body of this boy in the Angelus National Forest. And the body would not be found for over a year, May of 77. And then you jumped to June of 76. So he actually had almost like a two-month lull, which at this point in time,

is a long time for him to go between killing people. That is a long time at this point. So this victim is Craig McGee another hitchhiker. But we know Gibbs, it's the 70s, right? There was a lot more hitchhiking going on in the 70s. Yeah, we talked about it. I mean, today you really wouldn't do that. I mean, or you really shouldn't.

People still do it. They shouldn't. And we know the outcomes aren't normally good for those folks. But Craig McGee is going to be killed and Kearney is going to have sex with the body post-mortem. Dismember the body. put it in trash bags and dispose of it. And this is another victim that has never been found. So he does seem to alternate at times. Right. So he has this MO of picking people up,

killing them, sodomizing them, dismembering them and using the trash bags. But then in the same month, he kills a man named John Woods and shoots him, but then just leave him. And just leave him. he leaves him for dead. He doesn't do all of the other parts of the MO, and I'm not sure why. He does hide the body because the body's not found for a year. But it's around this time, you know, 76 time frame, Patrick Kearney starts to become obsessed with other serial killers. And, you know, he would later say there was one in particular that he was very captivated by. and again, a person that we just talked about last week, Dean Coral, the Candyman. Candyman.

That was in Texas. Yes, it was. Houston area. Yeah. So Houston, we know Kearney had spent time in Houston, but apparently he would read everything that he could get his hands on about Coral. Newspaper clippings about all of his crimes. So kind of amazing Gibbs that you have one serial killer.

fascinated by another serial killer that was doing essentially some of the same things, right? Coral killed a large number of boys. So I'm assuming that's one of the main reasons why Patrick Kearney would have taken an interest in him specifically. Yeah, I think so. Because of the victims that he chose. Yes, exactly. All right, Gibby, let's take a quick minute to talk about our sponsor, Havenly. Now, Havenly is the most delightful way to design spaces in your home on any budget.

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But it wasn't just Dean Coral. You know, Kearney was fascinated with a lot of serial killers, and there were a lot of serial killers operating in California where Kevenly was, you know, in the 60s and then into the 70s. You know, we did the Hillside Stranglers. You know, Morph and I covered Zodiac on season one of criminology. he had Randy Kraft, we haven't done, but we will. I just think it's fascinating that it's almost like he's studying or is he scorecarding?

Is he comparing himself? Well, it could be doing both, you know? Or both. Yeah. Is he studying them to learn how to commit his crimes better? Is he wanting to outdo them or like you said, both? Yeah, it's a combination of all of the above. But there would be a 19-year-old, maybe.

by the name of Tony Stewart that would survive an attack by Kearney. And I don't know how many people did. I have to think Gibbs, that was a rare thing for someone to have an encounter like that with Patrick Kearney and live to talk about it. Yeah, I don't think it was the norm. So not from all the numbers that we know about. Right.

There couldn't have been too many other people or else, you know, and they would have come forward. too. That's the other thing. Would you come forward? Well, that's a good point. Because we know from doing other cases like this that sometimes they don't. They don't come forward because of one reason or another, personal reason. So you're right. Yeah, sometimes you just don't want to say anything. You want to keep it into yourself, you know, and deal with it internally. Well, I think you and I dealt with this in, I can't remember if it was the Eiler episode or the Baumeister episode, where

in the 70s during that time period, right, there were some gay men that were attacked, survived, but they didn't want to come out with their story. No. They had their own personal reasons. And a lot of them had to do with that time and how people would have reacted to them. Yeah, how they were treated. Yeah. Sure.

Yeah. I mean, I remember part of that story was they just didn't feel like the police at the time were really giving a, uh, doing a good job. investigating. The next victim was Larry Epsie picked up hitchhiking, shot in the back of the head. He was only 17 years old and Kearney would do his normal routine. I almost, I hate to say it like that. Yeah, but that's what he's doing. But to him, that's what it was. Kill them, have sex with them, dismember. Yep, bag him up and move on. And dispose them. Throw them away like trash. This is how he was treating these men, essentially Gibbs, they were trash to him.

Yeah. Like something he just had to discard. Yeah, he really devalued the human life. Mark Oric was a victim, killed October 6, 1976. This was a very different situation. His body was found the same day he was murdered. Yeah, I kind of wonder if something spooked him off of that one, that he didn't do his normal process.

Yeah, so this one very strange where. There were some that he didn't dismember, but he at least took them to a part where nobody would find them for quite a long time. Right. So I wonder in those, did he get interrupted? He couldn't go through with everything that he wanted to do. Right. His normal path. And I think something happened like that.

And it sounds like in this one, even more so, like he couldn't even take the body somewhere. Because it was just literally just left on the side. of the road and found that very same day. So I think you're on to something. I think he was interrupted. And I would think for somebody like Patrick Kearney, that would be extremely frustrating. Yes. Because he has something that he wants to do.

It's a series of things. It's a series of things that leads to whatever, what's the word, Gibbs, whole that it fills inside him or the excitement. or the gratification, whatever it is that he's getting from this. Yeah, fills that vacancy that he has. But it's almost like he probably needs all of those pieces of the puzzle. Yes. So what happens when only one piece and all the rest of it is missing?

You're unfulfilled. I would think that that is what it would have felt like to him. But the thing about Patrick Kearney is he doesn't wait long, right? And probably even less time goes by if he's not able to complete. his entire MO. So Wilfred Ferry was killed in 76, 20-year-old hitchhiker. Randy Moore was killed in 76 as well. He was only 16 years old.

Both of these victims shot, sodomized, but left on the side of the road. No longer is he taking victims back to his house, draining the blood. He did that for a while. It's getting kind of lazy, if that makes sense. Yeah, but then that goes against my argument of needing to do all that stuff to satisfy his whatever demented urges he has. So I don't know. I'm not able to figure it out because I don't know that he's being interrupted in every one of these situations. But he could be.

He could be. Just hitting a streak of just bad luck. Or is he just getting lazy like you said? Right. Because, you know, not to be macabre, but those things that he's doing, that's a shun. that's a shitload of work. It is a lot of work if you were doing something like that and knew about it. We're speculating.

That's why, yeah. Yeah. I said the way I did. To, you know, drain a body. Dismember a body with a hacksaw so that you can put it in trash bags. I mean, there's some time there. That's a lot of time and effort to put in. Yeah.

And at some point does he just say, you know, because I'm doing this like every month. Okay, this month I'm not going to do it. Right. Yeah. I don't really need this. part of it. I just need the steps one through three. Yeah. And I'm good. I'm going to, I'm going to shoot somebody. I'm going to perform necrophilia. And then move on. Why do we try to get in the head of these guys? I don't know. It's never good. It's impossible to do.

But now, November 76, Timothy Ingham is killed. He's 19 years old. He was shot in the back of his head while he was asleep. And Kearney threw his body down a ravine. But he had taken some items from this victim. And it would later be known that he had given these items away to people that he knew in Mexico. Still in 76. I mean, how many victims have we talked about in 1976? It was a lot. It was. I mean, you could say, you would think he's averaging at least one a month, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. David Allen was a 27-year-old victim killed in 76, shot in the back of the head. And again, just left on the side of the road.

And then he kind of took a little break. And for him, kind of a long break. Because it's not until February of 77. Now, for most serial killers, that wouldn't be that long. But for Patrick Kearney and the amount of victims that he killed in 76, that's quite a long break. Yeah, it really is. But also, I always think there's that factor of the ones that we just don't know about that fills the gap, you know.

They just were people weren't missing in them so no one knew they were gone. And it's a great point that you, that you're making because we're talking about known victims, right? And we said right up front could be 28, could be 40, could be 50. So he could have been killing two people a month. And some of these people just were never found, were never known about. And he never ended up talking about them.

for whatever reason. But it's in February of 77 that he kills Arturo Marquez, 24 years old. He was shot, dismembered. Now, his body would not be found until after Kearney had confessed. Kind of giving it away that he does, but we're going to get to that point. Yeah, I mean, I don't think it's a big, big shocker to a lot of people. Well, yeah, he's not out walking the street. We know that.

But what we haven't really talked about is the police. You know, what are the police doing during this time? The body count is through the roof, Gibbs. And you know that the MO is very similar in a lot of these murders. Right. So, I mean, how many victims can you have that are shot in the head, dismembered, blood is drained, found in trash bags before you start thinking, we've got a very specific type of serial killer.

And one thing I didn't mention in the beginning, but we talked about it when he was a kid that Kearney was small. He was only 5-5 as an adult. Wow. So he was not a big guy by any stretch. No, not at all. Not saying 5-5 is bad. No, but it's definitely on the short side for a male.

And we talked about him actively pursuing, selecting bigger. victims. Now, being 5-5, I think most people that he would select would be bigger, but he went out of his way to select bigger victims. Right. Because of the challenge that it presented him. I think that had to have been part of it. I think the other thing was what we talked about was the bullying when he was a kid and I'm getting back at those people that bullied me. Even though he's not, those were not the people that bullied him in school. Yeah. He's got the wrong victims if that's what he's looking for. Right. And the other thing that did make him somewhat different than other serial killers that were operating, he was not really a sadist. He didn't take pleasure in inflicting pain

or torturing people. Now, that doesn't make him a nice guy. He killed these people. He sodomized them after death. But one thing about Patrick Kearney was when he murdered, he murdered. He was, when he murdered, he did it very quickly. Right, he would shoot people behind the ear. I go back to the toy box killer where you get into, I mean, that was real sadism. Yeah, I agree. You know, he enjoyed torturing. He enjoyed the infliction of pain.

You know, Patrick Kearney is a different type of serial killer. He killed very quickly, but then did a lot of things, you know, post-mortem. And that brings us to John LeMay. And John LeMay was 17 years old and he would be the last victim of Patrick Kearney. So John told a neighbor that he was going to meet a man named Dave in Redondo Beach. This man would end up being David Hill. They met at a local gym and David Hill invited John LeMay over to the house that he was sharing with Patrick Kearney because they're on again, right? Gibbs at this point. Right. And they're off and off on again relationship. John shows up at the

house after 6 p.m. But David Hill's not there at that point. So Patrick Kearney invites him in to wait. They're sitting there sitting on the couch. They're watching TV. All of a sudden, Patrick Kearney whips out his gun, shoots John LeMay in the back of the head. And then from there he drains the blood from his body, carefully cuts the body up, puts the pieces into trash bags. And all of the trash bags were sealed up with this nylon filament tape. And the bags were discarded in different places. But some of them ended up out in the desert. But the key is that some of these body parts and some of these bags were found about five days later. And the thing with John LeMay is that his mother Patricia knew something was wrong when John didn't come home that night. So she called a friend

who said that she should probably reach out to a contact of John's, one of his friends, and she said his name was Dave. This is the first time that John's mom had ever heard of this friend, didn't know anything about him. John was an openly gay man. And going back to what you said Gibbs about some other cases that we've covered, there was a lot of talk about the fact that police wanted to disregard this murder. But I don't think John's mom was going to let that happen. Right. So police end up investigating what John was doing before he vanished. And this led them to David Hill, which ultimately led them to Patrick Kearney. And they paid a visit to their home. And apparently gives David and Patrick,

more than happy to let police come in. Really? Yeah. Come on in. They just said, come on in. Check it out. They talked about the recent murder, said that they were shocked and that they would help police and, you know, with whatever they needed.

But at some point, I think they start to get a little bit worried because police are, they're collecting evidence. I mean, this is not a social call. Right. They start to collect evidence from the home. They're taking carpet fiber. which ultimately are going to match up to fibers found on that tape that sealed up the trash bag. Yeah, I think killers underthink the whole process, microscopic fibers that are in the room you're

in, to your vehicle, to just the fibers you have on your clothes. It's so easy to get those and then trace them back. And a lot of times it can lead right back to you. Well, I know killers do it because just think about, Do you worry about that stuff? I wear a onesie zip-up thing. No. And you shave all your body hair, I know.

Yeah, I do all that. Cover yourself in Vaseline, then zip up in the onesie. But no, seriously, I don't worry about that stuff. Now, of course, I'm not doing anything wrong where I would need to worry about it. So how much of that is 1970-whatever? Yeah. Versus 2018. I think today somebody that's doing something like a Patrick Kearney is more.

much more knowledgeable about... I would hope so. Evidence. I mean, trace evidence, things like that. I say I hope so. I don't mean that way. I know what you meant. What I'm saying is that because of the amount of information it's out there,

all they have to do is probably just watch Dexter. Exactly. But your point is well taken. And I think it's why it's hard to commit the perfect crime or to get away with crimes forever because there's something that's going to trip you up. Now, it doesn't always happen, right? there's a lot of unsolved murders. There's murders that never get solved.

That's true. But there's also murders that are being solved now with evidence that these people back then thought, uh, never, you know, didn't give a care in the world about it. Right. Well, now the technology's caught up with them. So they got the carpet fibers matching fibers found on the tape. And once they determined that, they knew they had something, right? So they go back to the home that David and Patrick were sharing.

and this time they asked for pubic hair samples from both David and Patrick. Really? And they also ask for samples of hair from their dog, fur from their dog. Oh, so they want to take the pubic hairs, the dog hair cross-reference and... Yeah, they want all the hair. Sure. At this point. And they actually agree.

They provide these samples, but they know that this is going to be a problem. and so much so that after this happens, they leave California altogether and flee to El Paso, Texas. So they're essentially on the run now from police. Yeah, so they're getting close to the border. And they're close to the border, right? El Paso is. So if they need to, they cross over. And Patrick Kearney would do a couple of things during this time gives that to me are really telling. So number one, he writes a letter to his grandmother asking her to sell the house that he shared

with David. Okay. And to pay their bills because they were going to be gone. So he was concerned about his bills. Yeah, he was worried. He's worried about his bills, which did seem strange. It is strange. The other thing that was very odd was that he mailed a letter of resignation to Hughes

aircraft. And with the letter, he included his security badge, which is very thoughtful. Sure. But why in the hell are you worried about that? Yeah, and if you're trying to pay bills, why would you, you're quitting your jobs? Why do you even pay the bills? Why worry about either one of them? Yeah, it doesn't, it's, uh, it's bizarre. I get, you know, sell the house and maybe wire me the money in Mexico. That, okay, that makes sense to me. Pay my bills? Who gives a shit about the bills at that point? And who cares about resigning from your job and

making sure that they get their security card back? Yeah, exactly. I just don't get that at all. I want to make sure you got his, uh, refund on the deposit of. the card. The card? Yeah. People, they just do things that are so odd to me. I can't make sense of it. Now, he's been doing things for years, right, that are so odd, strange, heinous. None of that makes sense. But then you get to something like this. And you're like, what the? And it's just a, it's a different side of, of oddness, I guess I'll call it. Yeah, it's bizarre. During another search of the apartment, police would end up finding a hacksaw.

It had dried blood on it that they would ultimately match to John Lame's blood type. They found blood in the bathroom. They found the same type of tape that was used to seal the bags that contained Lemae's body parts. They found some trash bags as well that matched. So they've got, they're building a lot of evidence at this point. They really are. Yeah. And I think even at that point in time,

they had started to link Kearney to around 20 murders, right? So the trash bags, the hacksaw, the dismemberment, everything's kind of coming together. They're plastering wanted posters for both of them all over the West Coast. And I think David and Patrick, they knew they were going to be caught. And they actually turned themselves in, which is so strange because just last week, we talked about, you know, a serial killer turning himself in. Now, this one to me is a little different. Okay. They're known.

They're caught at this point. Yeah. It's coming down the pike. Right. They're just trying to head it all. They are. And the one we did last week, Wayne Adam Ford, he wasn't about to be arrested. So that one, I still think is an anomaly.

Yeah, he just, I think he found religion. I think he found something. But what they do, Gibbs, they, walk right into the sheriff's office. They look up at the wanted posters of them and apparently said to the people in the sheriff's office, hey, we're them. That's us. This is us.

We're here. Can you imagine? No, I couldn't. So they're arrested, obviously, for the murder of John LeMay. I wonder if you pull out your gun right then and say, freeze. They're like, why am I free? I came here on my own. They're still very dangerous, wanted fugitives.

Yeah, you know, but they came to you. Well, so you still, what are you going to do? Give them a lollipop and a pat on the head? I don't know if, I know if it was me in that situation, knowing what they have done. They have done, or at least Patrick has done, we're going to talk about that in a minute. Yeah. I'd have my gun out, your gun out. I'd have one underneath my armpit.

Both armpits. Both armpits, both armpits, both hands. both hands. Four of them loaded. I wouldn't be taking any chances. We got to talk about the tip from John LeMay's mom. Because without that, you know, that's what really kind of led police in the right direction. They didn't have a lot to go on throughout the years, even though there's a ton of murders.

They hadn't put any of the pieces together up until this point. And it's this one little tip that kind of sets it all in motion. Now, Patrick Kearney would make a. full confession of his crimes. And this is the part I said we talk about later. He would claim to killing 28 people and eventually would confess to seven more. So he's confessed to around 35 murders. But because of this, David Hill was cleared of any involvement in any of the murders and he was

released. So Patrick Kearney took full responsibility. And, you know, this is where you get into the speculation. How much did David Hill really know? Did he know anything? It's been theorized that he may have gone on some of the rides and been with Patrick at certain points in time. But Patrick Kearney kind of falls on the sword and says, hey, I did this. It was all me.

But he never really provides a great reason for why he killed. Not that there's usually a great reason to be had. Right. But, you know, what he did do is he called his victims hustlers and phonies. And he kind of badmouthed them. He also said that he would beat the victims after they were dead because this gave him, it was almost like a sense of release. It was a release for him.

Yeah. Because he couldn't maybe do it in real life. Real life. So this is where he felt like he was the big man. Right. Yeah. So I think that's the reason. It's not a solid reason.

But the reason is, you know, he was bullied as a child. He felt like he had no power. Doing what he did gave him a sense of power over these people. I think he worked out his anger issues through doing this. And another thing that he said was that many of the victims that he picked looked like people that he remembered bullying him when he was younger. So that's it right there. Points right to it. Tells you exactly. Wow. So in the end, I mean, really killing, you know, gave him a sense of excitement.

Obviously, there was a sexual component because he was a necrophiliac. Right. But maybe most of all was this feeling of dominance or, you know, empowerment that he didn't have, he didn't have it at all when he was younger. And I don't think he had much of it in his adult life. Well, he only had it after the victim was dead. So. Yeah, I think for. for him, that's the only way he could have it. He didn't, he couldn't have it any other way. So Patrick Kearney would end up being charged with 21 counts of murder. And I think it was the police believe that he was responsible for the seven other murders that he confessed to. Yes.

And maybe some of the, the other seven that he confessed to on top of that. Right. But they didn't have enough evidence in some of those to convict him. And they didn't need it. I would say they didn't need it anyway. They got 21. I mean, it's nice that they could get some closure on them. But they probably didn't want to muddy the waters in court or, you know, anything like that.

We've talked about that. They had a slam dunk. Yeah. Take the slam dunk. 21 counts is you're never getting out type of. Yeah, you're going to find home sweet home really fast. Yeah. But one thing that's important that we have to talk about is the timing of the murders.

Because his last murder occurred in 1977. and at that time in 1977, California did not have the death penalty. That's why Charles Manson is still a lot. That's why a lot of infamous killers are still hanging out there. Or still hanging on from the 60s and early 70s. California reinstated the death penalty in 78. So a year after Kearney's last murder. But you know what?

I read Gibbs. even though they reinstated in 78, California didn't put anybody to death until 1992. Wow. I found that interesting. Kind of amazing. And maybe not. Maybe that makes sense, right? Because if you put somebody away in 78 under the now reestablished death penalty,

hell, it probably took that long to get through all the appeal. I was getting ready to say. So I wonder when they changed the law when someone actually was sentenced. Well, it probably would have been 78. Yeah. You know somebody would have been. By the time you do the appeals and all that stuff. Yeah.

So that's not as kind of mind-boggling as I first thought because it takes that long. We know it does. It was mind-boggling for a minute. For a minute. I was boggled. Now you're welcome to my world. Is that how you feel all the time? I do.

Oh my gosh, dude. How do you make it? Some days I don't. Because just even that blip right there caused me to have almost a- You know, I just shake it off, man. A panic attack. I just shake it off. that I was so wrong on that.

Hey, wait a minute. I'm not always wrong. I'm just messing with you. But because of that, because there was no death penalty law at the time, the maximum sentence that the judge could give Patrick Kearney was life sentences, which he did, 21, to be exact, after Kearney pled guilty. So he pled guilty February 21st, 1978. He gets 21 life sentences for his crimes.

And at the sentencing hearing, the judge says, I would only hope that the community release board will never see fit to parole Mr. Kearney because he appears to be an insult to humanity. That's strong in it, but it's correct. Riddle me this. You're on the parole board. Yeah. In California. Okay. Kearney comes up.

Yes. Who in their right mind would ever let this man walk free again? Plenty. You think? Yeah. I think there's some people that after 30 years could pull. I don't care if this could pull. I get it. But I'm saying there's people out there that would say based on what he did why he was in prison that he could be reformed. Now, okay, I believe in rehabilitation, but I also believe that there are some people that are so far beyond it.

And for me, Patrick Kearney definitely falls into this category. Yes. Yeah. I mean, you don't. You don't snap, you don't accidentally, you don't, you know, kind of have a haze and kill 20, 30 people over a span of time. It's, you're, you're just too far gone for me. Yeah. Well, I agree. But I'm just saying there's people out there, though. Yeah. And I'm not saying you were the one that would let him out.

But you did say if you were on that board. Yeah, I did. I'm just saying. But what did you say? You said there are plenty of people. You didn't even answer as if it were you. I'm incognito. Oh my gosh.

Take responsibility, man. I can't. There is something to talk about in kind of wrapping this episode up. Okay. Because the murders that Kearney committed, they would be viewed as a major setback for gay rights. You know, we're talking 1977, right? after he was found to have been this heinous murderer, prolific serial killer, was very highly publicized.

And it was seen by the gay community as a very harmful thing. Because you have to think about the time. You know, that community is trying to gain the political acceptance. They're fighting for their civil rights. They got a lot going on. Right. Now here comes this gay man who has just. killed 20-some people, it was viewed as a setback, as though it hurt their cause. It hurt them

raising money for political action committees. I can see that. And I think the big worry was that there were people that were viewing members of the gay community as evil just by pure association with this Patrick Kearney. Yeah. Just because he happened to be gay. Right, exactly. In 1981, Patrick Kearney would recant his confessions in a letter that he wrote to a newspaper. And he would write this retraction and say that he wanted to be released from prison. He said, get this Gibbs. I didn't kill anybody. That's all I'll say for the moment.

That's it. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. I said I did it. But I really didn't do it. There's a shitload of evidence that points to the fact that I did it. Right. But now, years later, I'm telling you I didn't do it.

So let me out. Yeah. is basically what he said. My bad for saying I did something I didn't really do. He submitted a handwritten petition to the Riverside Superior Court where he actually asked to be released from prison. He said, again, he had not killed anyone and that he had not been well advised by his attorney. Okay. What in the Sam Hell is his attorney going to do in the face of all of that?

Exactly. What type of advice did he give or not give to Patrick Kearney? I'm wondering about that. Yeah. As Patrick Kearney, what the hell you got to lose? Well, nothing. That's why he would write all the letters you want. Yeah, absolutely.

Every day I'd write five. And each one of them, I'd be more outlandish than the next, I guess. Yeah, I'd add another sentence. I'd blame it on you from my jail cell. Yeah. Wasn't me. It was actually Gibby. Yeah.

And when they come and talk to me, I'm like, I would assume he would say that. Let me show you some of the stuff he left behind that I forgot to give you. I knew that was the first thing he was going to try to do. Yeah. Look at this box in the garage that he left. So Patrick Kearney is at California State Prison in Mule Creek. And there's some of our other alumni are there. At the new old Mule Creek?

Mule Creek. Herbert Mullen. Remember Herbert Mullen? Oh, yeah. Menendez, Lyle Menendez. Yeah. Although did you hear that the brothers are about ready to be reunited? I did hear that.

You want to sing the song? Reunited? No. Because it feels so good? Yeah. No. Is that, who is that? Peaches and herb?

Peaches and cream. Peaches and cream? I don't know who that is. I don't know. Yeah. Somebody will tell us. They will. Or, as always, we could just Google it, but that would be totally against the point.

Yeah. Gotta let them out there do something. Look up something for us. Robert John Bardo? Oh, yeah. Yeah. We covered Bartow. Charlie Manson's there. We haven't covered him yet, but he's there. So anyway, I just go back to the fact that

you and I have covered a lot of cases. We've researched many, many more. Tons. Than what we've even done. Right. This guy, his numbers are off the charts. They are. What he did to his victims terrible. Terrible. Some of the worst that we've seen. But yet. And young. And he had some very young victims as well. Five years old. Why is it that he's not more well known? Is it because he was a gay man killing other gay men? I think so.

You think that plays a role in it? For the time frame that he was, this was occurring in? Yeah. And I'm not saying he should be well known, right? We don't want these serial killers to get any type of. But that's why. I mean, I believe that's why. There's got to be something to it because when you get into this case,

this guy's he's the worst of the worst. Same reason, you know, her Baumeister was not that well known. I mean, he had some numbers. Yeah, you're right. But again, it was, I think it was related to. Yeah, but the flip side of that argument, I guess, would be Gacy. Gacy's very well known. Yeah, but targeted, you know, young men.

Yeah, but Gacy had hit that whole clown. Yeah, which, you know, people. And that seems to be it, right? I don't want to harp on it, but it's almost like you got to have a hook. you know, Ramirez, the Nightstocker, the Pentegram, the Satanism. Yeah. There's got to be a hook. If you're just a normal guy that kills a bunch of people, nobody ever hears your name.

You got to do that, you know. And again, it sounds like I'm saying how to get famous. I don't want anybody to get famous doing this, but it's kind of a, it's an interesting discussion to have about why some serial killers gain infamy and other ones. ones that do much more prolific crimes, you never hear of. You just don't hear about them, yeah.

Yeah. But that's it. That's the case of Patrick Kearney, the trash bag killer. All right, Gibbs, we've got some voicemails. You want to hear those? Voicemails.

We've got a lot of voicemails. We've got so many voicemails that I can't play them all. Yeah. They're queued up. We'll get to them, but... I think he yelled at me. I did.

Quit asking for voicemails. I said, I haven't asked them for a while. Now, we love voicemails. but we're getting so many that just can't fit them all in. Hey, Mike and Debbie, this is Megan. I just wanted to say, I absolutely love your all podcast. I think I probably listened to them last 10 episodes in like two days at work.

It's funny because everybody knows what I'm not talking because they go, oh, she's listed in true crowd all the time. I'm like, you got it. So I just wanted to like drop a little tidbit regarding the Richard Ramirez two-part episode that you did actually know someone that I wouldn't say grew up with them but like attended the same school as them and they were like in the same vicinity or whatever part me up from Kentucky and they said that he was just creepier than you to imagine there was an aura about him that um he just gave you the creeps all the way around and there really no one was just like that knew him from what

I understand was really surprised at the event that took place. I mean, they were surprised, but like, not surprised. So anyhow, I just wanted to say, keep us to great work. I'm going to be on to the next podcast here pretty soon. So you all, for keep your own time taking, I think it's what it is. I'm sorry, up driving, but have a good one. Megan from Kentucky. So a couple of things, Gibbs. First of all, I have a feeling that Ramirez was creepy coming out of the womb. I think so, Like from day one. Yeah. And second of all, never apologize from being from Kentucky.

Well. Come on now. She's probably a big Kentucky fan too. And you never apologize for that, even when they lose four in a row. Well, you know, can't win them all. Can't win them all, man. But people in Kentucky expect you to win them all. Yeah.

Hey, Mike and giddy. It's Shannon in Denver, North Carolina again. Just wanted to say I finished listening to the second half of the Richard Vermeerese case. And I don't think there's a word for the level of crazy and evil that man was. Really disturbing stuff. Anyway, I love your show, guys. Keep doing what you're doing. Oh, yeah, and by the way, Gibby, you're definitely killing the grammar.

Have a great week. Shannon is a teacher, so she should know. So she's got to check up on your grammar. Yeah. You know, we've gotten a lot of people talking about the two-part Ramirez one, saying that it caused them to, you know, double-check their doors, look behind the shower curtain, things like that. Yeah.

Because, you know, anytime you're getting into like home invasions and things like that, it gets spooky. Yeah, it does, man. Check under eat their bed before you go to sleep. I will say this. As bad as Richard Ramirez was, the Golden State Killer, the East Area rapist. Yeah. He makes Richard Ramirez look like Boy Scout.

an altar boy. Yeah. I cannot, people are not going to believe on this, uh, season two of criminology. The scope, the severity of how bad this guy really was. Yeah. It's definitely going to jerk you out of your chair. Gidey, Mike and Gibby. This is Liz from Sydney, Australia calling just to say how much I've loved the show.

And if you want a hand with any Australian crimes, just let me know okay. I can't wait to meet you guys at CrimeCon later this year. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Bye. Good day. I really love your voice. Okay, so good day. Good day.

Morf right into like downtown London. It happens every time. You know what? I can't control it. You literally sound more like Paul McCartney than Crocodile Dundee. Well, that's cool either way. You called out a knife. This is a knife.

That's not good, man. Her accent was very cool. But at one point... She lives there. It ought to be very cool. No, I didn't say it was a real... I know she's real. She lives there.

I said it's cool. Yeah. But at one point, it was almost like she had a Valley Girl quality. Yeah. Yeah. Did you notice that? It was kind of California in almost. Yeah, like for sure.

Hi, Mike and Gibby. I just heard my voicemail. This is Holly from California. I am a dog groomer, and I constantly have dogs in and out of my home along with clients. So I had a client show up, and then I got embarrassed. So I just hung up. But anyways, thank you for your podcast. you get me through, I listen to both, I bend to listen while I groomed.

And thanks for all that you do. If you're looking for a story to look into, we had a mass shooting at Juan Miratage in Steel Beat. It was horrific, and it's not that long ago, and it would be nice to hear what the conclusions happened to thought, who was a horrible person. But anyways, I hope you guys have a beautiful day. Thank you so very much and look forward to talking to you. So Gibbs, I don't know which one we played it on, whether it was T-CAT or T-Cat Unsold, but Holly was the one that started to leave the voicemail, if you remember?

I remember. And it cut off and we were like, genuinely kind of worried that something happened. Now we know. Now that mystery has been solved. So we're glad and we appreciate the comments. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Carissa calling from Milford, Connecticut. it. I just wanted to say that I love your show. I listen to you on my commute and I also have

two toddlers. So I often have it on the headphones because, you know, some of the stuff's a little racy. But I just wanted to say that you guys do a great job. And, you know, I really appreciate the dynamic between you two. I think that's my favorite part. I do listen to other true crime podcast, including like Sword and Scale and some of the, you know, higher production value stuff. But I love the exchange between you guys. I think that that really makes it for me. So I just wanted to say, keep up the good work and keep your own time taken.

Well, we love that. We appreciate that. And she's from Connecticut. Oh, they don't have an accent, do they? And I don't even know what that was. I don't either. That didn't even sound like English. I know.

But that was awesome. And it's probably good. You don't let the kids hear what we're saying because they'd be up all night, be in your bed. You wouldn't be able to get sleep. It's just a whole long story. Yeah. But Gibby gets a little racy sometimes.

you got to watch. I do. Watch out. Hi, guys. This is Queen of the Fire, A.B. A.k.a. Jennifer. Told you on Twitter, I think it was, that I was going to call. So I'm giving you a call. I'm from Houston, Texas. I'm so grateful that y'all do not downplay

Texas and make fun of people from Texas. I've heard other podcasts do that. So I'm very thankful for y'all. Also, I don't even know what else to say. I love y'all's show. I love your podcast. I am one of those that listen to y'all when I go to bed.

And then my house quiet when I get up, so I have to have some noise. So I listen to y'all when I get up. My friends called me a little bit of psychopath because of that. But, you know, I'm not really because I show compassion, apparently. So anyways, keep your own time to thinking. Bye, guys. All right. Love that voicemail.

And Gibbs, we would never make fun of Texas. We try not to make fun of anything. We love them, y'all. I like to hear people say y'all. Y'all is wonderful. And we've said that many times. And we've got a lot of listeners down there in Y'all, Texas. In Y'all, Texas?

Yeah. I think even last week we said everything's bigger in Texas. We did. All right, Gibbs. That's it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.