True Crime All The Time - Paul Bateson

Episode Date: October 31, 2022

In 1973 Paul Bateson appeared as an extra in the famous film The Exorcist. Four years later, he was arrested for the murder of Addison Verrill, a well-known Variety reporter. At his sentencing hearing, the prosecutor accused Paul Bateson of being responsible for the unsolved “bag murders” of six men in New York City.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Paul Bateson. The evidence against him for the murder of Addison Verrill was pretty compelling. But, there seems to be little to no evidence against him for the bag murders. But, that didn't stop prosecutors from going after him for those murders as well. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 307 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? I'm doing good, man. I know you're not doing too terrific. No, it's been a rough week. I've been under the weather, no doubt about it. We had to put off taping to a little bit later in the week just to try to let my voice get back to where it is now. and I'm hoping it holds out for both episodes. Yeah, I do too.

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Rebecca Vail. Hey, Rebecca. Lori Douglas. Well, thank you, Lori. Zach Rainey. What's up, Zach? Matt Hudson.

Hey, Matt. Heather Roberts. Appreciate that, Heather. Emily Eiji. Hey, there's Emily. Christina Nune. What's up, Christina? Aaron McCoy.

Hey, Aaron. Britain Lane. What's going on, Britain? Fanner Thor. Well, what's up, Thor? Allie Cat gave a happy belated birthday to Hotel Plummer. Well, Allie Cat, you. You're awesome and happy birthday, Hotel Plumber.

Nicola Boyd. What's going on, Nicole? Janet Orah. Hey, Janet. Hey, DeGrassey, make this reboot count. There you go. Make it count. Nick LeBlunk.

What's up, Blanc? Rob Joe. What's up, Rob Joe? What's up, Rob Joe? Raymond. Merleye Ember Rose. Man, what a name. Merlea.

Rachel. Hey, Rachel. Uncle Sci-Sai. Well, there's Cy. And last but not at least, Shane Taylor. Awesome. Thanks, Shane. So then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Terry Lawrence.

That's awesome. Appreciate that so much, Terry. Yeah, we appreciate the new support, the continued support. We had a couple of great PayPal donations from Lauren Porter. Hey, thanks, Lauren. And Robin Taylor. Thanks, Robin. So Gibbs, right now on true crime all the time unsolved, we have an episode out on the

murders of mother and daughter, Nancy and Joey Bo Kikio. Yeah, such a. interesting case. We're going to head to South Florida, Boca Raton area, and we're diving to not only their unsolved murders, but some other activities in that, same area around that same time. So that's out now. Definitely make sure you check that out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am ready. We're talking about Paul Bateson. In 1973, Paul Bateson appeared as an extra in the famous film The Exorcist. If you're going to be an extra on something. I guess that would be the movie to be on.

But it would have been in 1973. Then four years later, he was arrested for the murder of Addison Varyl, a well-known variety reporter. At his sentencing hearing, the prosecutor accused Bateson of being responsible for the unsolved bag murders of six men in New York City. So obviously, the Exorcist was a huge movie. I don't think anyone thought it was going to be as big as it was. But it was huge. It was. And I told the story on our Patreon mini episode this week about, you know, my daughter watching it and thinking it was just the funniest movie that she's ever seen. Yeah. And now she continues to think that every time I even bring up the title.

Yeah, but back then, man, it made a lot of people have nightmares. It was a scary movie, no doubt. Paul Bateson was born on August 24th, 1940. Matt Miller, from Esquire told inside edition and depth about Bateson. Paul Bateson was a well-respected technician at the NYU Radiology Lab. He worked there in the early to mid-70s. All of his colleagues loved him. They said he had a great bedside manner. They said he was great with patients, that he was very skilled. The people that I talked to who worked with him said that he was just very reliable and great at his job. Paul spoke with the village voice journalist Arthur Bell for an October 31st, 1977 article where he gave a little more information about his early life. He said that he struggled with alcohol abuse.

He said he began drinking when he was stationed with the army in Germany because there just wasn't much else to do. So either be bored or go ahead and have some drinks. According to him, when he left the army, he returned to Lansdale, Pennsylvania. then in October of 1964, he moved to New York City. According to the village voice, shortly after moving to the city, he met a man who was involved in music. Paul said their relationship was the days of wine and roses. Wine and roses.

Yeah. I've heard that saying before. I'm not exactly sure what it means, but it's obviously referring to a good time, a good period. What I'm thinking. It was said that they spent most. of their time partying. After this relationship ended, Paul moved to Borough Park, Brooklyn.

He worked in Manhattan as an X-ray tech at the NYU Medical Center. Paul said that his mother died of a stroke in 1969. His father was a retired metallurgist and remarried after her death. Paul Bateson's younger brother tragically died of suicide. In his free time, Paul dressed like what was described as he was. a pseudo-biker. And he and his friends went to what were called backroom bars in the city. Remember that time I dressed up as a pseudo-biker? Did you just say sudo? Sudu? Sudoku. I remember you were a Sudoku biker one time. Yeah, yeah, did that too.

Well, I just, yeah, back during your, uh, your YMCA days, I remember that. Yeah, those are really, the village people. Yeah. Cool outfits I wore, huh? But I don't know what to make of backroom bars. I mean, to me, that is something hidden, you know, not to the general public. You got to know about it. You got to know someone to get in, maybe. Like a secret place. Yeah. That's what I'm thinking. According to Esquire, in 1972, the exorcist director, William Friedkin, entered the university hospital in the NYU radiology lab. Now it's called Tish Hospital. And he witnessed Paul's colleague, Dr. Barton Lane performing an angiogram. Friedkin wanted this procedure in his film.

He told Dr. Lane that he wanted everyone in the room during the procedure to be in the movie. The people in the room were Dr. Lane, a nurse named Nancy and Paul Bateson, an X-ray tech. They filmed the scene for two weekends in a row in early 1973. So this is how Paul got his role as an extra in The Exorcist. He told the village voice in 1977, it was sort of belated revenge on my father since he would punish me by not allowing me to go to Saturday matinees when I was young. He made me stay home and listen to opera on the radio. Like, sure, Dad, you didn't let me see the movies, but now I'm in a movie.

What do you think about that? But belated revenge? I thought that was a strange way to term it. I agree with you. But how cool would it be? to just kind of, you know, be at your job doing your everyday thing and have this director walk in and be like, oh, what you're doing is so cool. I want it in my movie. And on top of that, I want you, everybody in this room to actually be the ones to do it. Yeah. You're not that

blown away because I know it's happened to you many, many times. Well, I've been in a lot of B movies. In movies that most people have never seen would not want to see. Should not see. Should not see. So I mentioned this Dr. Lane. He was in the movie with Paul. Dr. Lane told Inside Edition and Death, Paul was very good at what he did. He knew more about the tech side of neuroradiology than anybody. And that meant that he knew a lot of things that I needed to know. He had a really good personality.

He had a good sense of humor, but he was never flipping. He was always focused on what he was doing, which I respected, because that's what you have to do. So, I mean, I think so far we're painting a picture of a guy who people seem to like. Yeah. Respect, even. And seems to be really intelligent. Good at his job? Yeah.

This is not normally how most teacats go. No. The village voice reported that around 1973, Paul's social life reached a new low. He began to drink. And Paul would later say, nobody likes a drunk. Well, there's good drunks and bad drunks. I mean, if you're drunk all the time, that's different. That is different.

You know, you can have somebody drunk at a party. They can be a lot of fun. It can be. You know, Frank the Tank is a lot of fun. Yeah. Sometimes you get those angry drunks, though. And also, I think if you're working in the medical field, being an alcoholic is not a good thing. No, especially the field he's in.

Because, you know, you want to make sure he hits the right button. You know, it's important radiologists. Well, let's face it. It's a specialized feel. Sure. My luck, he'd give me like 10,000 gamma or whatever the wrong gamma or whatever the terminology is. Yeah. You're really going down a bad path here, Hulk. That's pretty good. Around 1975, Paul was fired from NYU. He worked a bunch of different jobs, cleaning and installing light fixtures, even worked as a cashier at a porn theater. But Paul tried to get sober. He attended AA meetings. He tried to meet someone with whom he could get involved with. Those were his words. On September 14th, 1977, film critic Addison Vero was found dead in his apartment in Greenwich Village.

He was beaten and stabbed the death. Addison had been a film reporter for variety for eight years. He was only 36 years old. When he was murdered, he was a graduate of Princeton and a Peace Corps volunteer. Impressive. Yeah. So some impressive credentials, education, obviously volunteering for the Peace Corps. Yeah. Is up there. Now, the police originally thought Addison was killed in a robbery gone wrong. His apartment was ransacked, which is obviously why the police went with that theory initially. There were some signs of a struggle, but nothing valuable was taken from his apartment. There was no evidence of

forced entry, meaning he most likely let the killer in, there were also empty beer cans and half full liquor glasses in the apartment. So I kind of struggled with this robbery gone wrong theory, because this is all kind of happening at the same time. I'm not sure why they went with that theory initially with no signs of forced entry and the appearance that he maybe had drinks with someone. just because the place was ransacked, but no valuables were taken. I don't know why they would have assumed that. Unless they were going with the theory that it was a robbery,

but he knew the person, let him in, they had some drinks, and then the robbery occurred. I guess you could see that. The police suspected that Addison left the Mineshaft bar around 6 a.m. and met someone at the bar or on the way home.

Addison was a regular at the Mineshaft and talked. and talked to a lot of people on the morning he was killed. He was also seen earlier at the bars, ties, and the anvil. According to Inside Edition, Addison frequented underground gay clubs in Chelsea and the meatpacking districts. Some of the clubs were roadhouse, ties, the anvil, and the mine shaft. These clubs didn't have any signs outside. And according to Inside Edition, they weren't known to those outside.

of kind of the BDSM gay culture. So these must have been the backroom bars that they were referring to. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Addison's friends told journalist Arthur Bell that he wasn't into the hardcore leather scene like other mind shaft patrons, but he liked the attitudes of the people who went there.

So we talked about it, right? Police think that he met somebody at the bar, went home with them, or pick someone up on his way home, and they thought that it was whoever this person was that robbed him. That's reasonable. Yeah. I mean,

they're trying to come up with a theory. Village voice journalist Arthur Bell wrote about the murder of Addison Varyl in his article, there's nothing gay about murder, which was published in September 1977. Bell wrote, the TV tape recorder typewriter, stuff that a small time crook could easily dispose of had not been taken. It was not a break-in crime.

Varel had brought his assailant home or allowed him into the apartment. Well, he makes a good statement there, right? I mean, if you were going to rob a place for some quick money, why wouldn't you take those items and fence them off? Yeah, we talk about this in a number of episodes. When you're talking about a break-in or what's thought to be a break-in, there just seems to be things that automatically you go to that you would think a crook would take. And when those things aren't taken, it's kind of a head scratcher.

Yeah. Stuart Byron, who was writing a book about the history of variety, said about Addison Varel. In fact, he made some of the bars in, like Ties and earlier the roadhouse. People came over to him at these places. He always had his own little corner where he dispense wisdom and gossip. So obviously, Addison Veral was a pretty well-known guy. Sounds like he was like the norm at Cheers.

Yeah, a little bit. You know, he had kind of a famous job, I guess you would say. Yeah. People knew who he was. People wanted that gossip. When you're a reporter at the variety. People love gossip. Bell wrote during his eight year tenure at Variety, he wrote at Link about the explosion in the porn film industry.

He knew a lot of actors and producers in the field and frequently reviewed, straight and gay, skisdivism. Inflicts. Dozens of people in and out of the porn field knew Addison Burrell. He was generally well liked. In the news of his death, last week, shocked the film in gay communities. That is, those members who knew about the tragedy. But there weren't too many who did. Only Channel 7 news reported on the murder. None of the dailies carried news stories or opens. I find that really strange. Well, I would find it strange today. But let's go back to the early 1970s. I mean,

let's think about a lot of the cases that we've done, what gets reported on and what doesn't. Or at certain points in history and time, what got reported on and what didn't. That's true. So you have the death or the murder of a gay man. It doesn't shock me that a lot of papers, news outlets didn't report.

on the story. Now, I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying it doesn't shock me that it didn't happen back then with everything that we know. Yeah, that makes sense. Bell wrote in that article, we're all aware that there are psychopaths roaming to New York streets and they don't advertise their intentions on their t-shirts. When they zero in on gay men, the sentiment often expressed is they brought it on themselves. Each year, there are approximately four sexually oriented murders of gay men in the Greenwich Village area. Seldom, do the papers report to crimes? Not all of the killers are apprehended.

Often, witnesses are afraid to speak up because of their closet status. And I think this is all information that's important. Sure it is. To bring up, you know, that one statement, they brought it on themselves. You could say that exact same thing about how women have been treated throughout the years. Sure. how other groups have been treated. Yet they were killed, but some people have this warped notion that for whatever reason, they brought it upon themselves. I always thought it was so lousy.

I know that's not a great word to use, but I don't know what other word to use. But you're right. It is lousy. Ignorant. Maybe that's a better word. Yeah. And then let's talk about witnesses not wanting to speak up about what they know because they don't want. They don't want to, want to out themselves as gay. Well, yeah, they had the fear of what would happen if they did. Retribution. Maybe something would happen at their job. I mean, this is, you know, kind of a snapshot of what it was like during a period of time.

Yeah. Some communities it was illegal. Yeah. And, you know, obviously some of our younger listeners, they know about it, but they never experienced it or they didn't live during that time frame. Eight days after the murder, 36-year-old Paul Bateson confessed to the crime over a phone call. But he didn't give his name at the time. It was on September 22nd, 1977, when Arthur Bell received a phone call from someone who confessed to the murder of Addison Varyl.

Bell got a call from Jan Albert at the Voices City Newsdesk. She said that someone had called twice, saying he killed Addison Verrill. and wanted to talk specifically to Bell. Now, the article where he explained all of this wouldn't be released until October 3rd, which gave Bell time to interview some people. He said the caller told him, look, I like your story and I like your writing, but I'm not a psychopath. The caller said after three months sober, he went to Badlands, a bar on Christopher Street, in the early morning hours of September 14th.

He didn't know Addison Verrill. but Addison offered to buy him a beer. They had several drinks together. They used some drugs. They went to the mind shaft at 3 a.m. The caller said that he noticed how popular Addison was, saying, I didn't realize he was such a superstar and I wanted to go home with him. Got a killer business idea. Make it a reality with Shopify, the all-in-one commerce platform to start, run and grow your business.

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It was the sole act, too. I wanted a lasting thing, something that would go beyond sex, into friendship, a lover or marriage. Well, typically that doesn't happen overnight, so. Yeah, you're right. I mean, it does seem strange for someone to think that, I mean, this is essentially a one-night stand. I mean, your expectations are really high at this point.

To think that that quickly, the person would be looking for exactly what you're looking for in terms of a very long-lasting relationship and or marriage. Yeah. The caller said, I can't fathom exactly what I did. I concede that it was my alcoholism. There's a stigma placed on alcoholics, but I needed money and I hated the rejection. It was the rejection that triggered things. Something flared up in my head. I decided to do something I'd never done before. I took a heavy frying pan from the kitchen

and knocked Addison out. Then I went into a drawer in the right hand side of the kitchen, removed a knife, and stuck it into Addison's chest. I plunged it in too high. I should have stuck it a bit more toward the center left. So obviously this is all coming out in this article, written by Arthur Bell. Right. After the phone call. But he's recounting what this guy said to him on the phone.

Just sitting there. Taking in all this information had to feel morbid. I think so to hear how someone killed. another human being. At the same time, though, I think as a reporter, you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm getting the inside scoop here. This wouldn't be one would be one heck of a story. Right. Afterwards, the caller stole $57 from Madison's wallet, his master charge card, passport, and clothes. He bought alcohol and got drunk later that day. Bell later learned that the collar spent the evening at the club baths.

But this guy gave quite a bit of information to Arthur Bell over the phone. He said that he was the same age as Addison Varyl. He said he was married and had a teenage son. It's a lot of detail. You mean in addition to the fact that you plunged a knife into a man's chest? Yes. Yeah, that too. There's a lot of detail.

He also said that his wife had a very low mentality and didn't understand. about him being gay. In the article, Bell wrote, My caller seemed eager to talk. He divulged pertinent information, then stepped back, as if longing to be captured, but afraid of giving himself up.

There was a kind of boastfulness and some remorse. He seemed to feel that talking to a reporter might make him a media star. I'm sure there's some truth in that. There might have been. We've covered a lot of strange, things like this where, you know, people do unspeakable acts, murder, you name it. And somehow there's something going on in their mind that this act or these acts are going to

make them famous. Unfortunately, in some cases, it does actually happen. Infamous is probably a better word. There's the magic word right there. During the conversation, the caller said, I'd like to atone, but I don't want to give myself up. I wouldn't be able to practice again. I'd lose my license. A little bit of giveaway there. A little bit. Well, I think you could narrow it down.

There's a lot of professions that, you know, you could call practicing. There's also a lot of professions that require a license. But, you know, you're really kind of pushing in towards legal or. medical. Yeah, when you use the word practice and license. Yeah. So Arthur Bell went to the police with this information and they came to the conclusion that the caller was really the killer. First of all, the stolen credit card was not public knowledge. The caller also talked about a white substance on the floor and said it was Crisco. The police hadn't been able to identify the substance and that wasn't public either. Arthur Bell received. Arthur Bell received.

a call from another individual who said the killer was Paul Bateson. Bell gave this person the name Mitch for the article, this person that called in and actually gave the name Paul Bateson. According to Mitch, his friend called him the morning after the murder to confess. He said his friend was Paul Bateson, but he doubted that it was his real name. He said he knew Paul from when they were detoxing at St. Vincent's Hospital. Paul said he was an unemployed X-ray technician. Arthur Bell reported that Paul Bateson most recently worked at Big Top, a male porn film and vaudeville theater on Broadway.

He was fired from this job because according to one employee, he couldn't handle anything well. He'd get off on a track, then wouldn't remember how to finish it. That's a problem when you are hired to do a job and you can't finish what you've been hired for. He can't stay on track and you're easily. diverted. Yeah, that's a big problem. This employee also said, Paul doesn't have grace. One day when he was ushering the theater, he noticed that someone fell asleep with his shoes off. He took the customer's

shoes and put them in the office to scare the hell out of it. I like Paul. I know him and I know exactly why he called you. When Paul did something wrong, he'd have to go over to the school teacher to get his hands slapped. He was into punishment and non-punishment. He was in to punishment. And non-punish. He played at S&M. And his favorite topic of conversation was himself. There's people that like to talk about themselves. There's also people who are into S&M, punishment. Now, I didn't know that would kind of transfer into when you did something wrong.

You actually needed to be punished. Yeah. Or felt as though you needed to be punished. Now you're getting a little deep there. It's all deep, man. All deep. Paul Bateson was arrested in charge with second degree murder on September 23rd, 1977, according to Matt Miller of Esquire.

Paul was drunk when he was arrested. So I don't think there's any doubt. This guy was an alcoholic. He said it himself that he was, but I just kind of want to go back to how they found out that it was him. So he calls in, doesn't give his name, right? Tells all this incriminating stuff to arrest. reporter and then someone else calls in and says, I know who that is. It's Paul Bateson.

Yeah, because he confessed to me too. But he said he didn't even think that that was his real name. He just knew this guy from detox. According to the village voice, when the police asked Paul if he knew why he was getting arrested, he pointed to a copy of the village voice with Arthur Bell's article and said he knew the police wanted him for killing. that guy in the village. It's not really denying it. No, that's not. Not probably the best thing to say to the police, but. Well, and then later on, he confesses. And he gives a very similar confession to the police as he had to Arthur Bell. One detective told Arthur Bell, everything matches. He also admitted that he called you. And he led us to Varyl's missing passport and credit cards.

Okay, now it's one thing to confess. We know that a lot of people wrongfully confess. Sure. Either through coercion or because they're scared or they're promised something, whatever it may be. But when you give a bunch of facts that the police haven't released. Nobody really knows them, but the police, right? And then you actually lead police to items of evidence, items that were stolen from, you know, this man's apartment, okay, it's a pretty damning stuff. It makes it hard to dispute later. According to Detective Lieutenant John Eukeness in a New York Times article, a man approached the police a few days earlier and told them that Paul Bateson had bragged about committing the murder.

Never understood these guys bragging. Yeah, I think we've kind of broached this subject maybe once or twice, but, you know, in my mind, is it a case that some of these individuals, will secretly want to get caught. They want, and maybe this guy wanted to be punished. He knew he had done something wrong and he felt as though he needed to be punished. I don't know, but I don't know how to explain it other than, you know, looking at it that way. If you don't want to get caught, then why do you go around telling a bunch of people that you did

something bad? It just doesn't make any sense. So we talked about, you know, Paul phoning up Arthur Bell talking to him for that article. He later agreed to an interview with Arthur Bell as long as there was no tape recorder or camera. Paul Bateson said in this interview that he'd never been arrested before. He also apparently complained about missing the Joffrey Ballet. Bell wrote about Bateson's time in prison. Bateson is using his confinement to dry out, build up,

get in shape. He exercises, plays cards, watches cartoons and baseball games on television. Apparently, Paul told Arthur Bell, in a way, it's nice. You're on your own. Hardly any supervision. I'd welcome a little more discipline. Well, we know that he would like a little more discipline. We know that's part of his thought process. According to this article, Paul was drinking at a minimum, a quart of vodka every day. Well, that's a problem. That is a lot of alcohol. It is. On a daily basis.

When he was drinking a lot, he didn't leave his apartment much. He told Arthur Bell, after a few shots, I'd shave and get dressed. Then by the time I was ready to step into the world, I'd have consumed a court and I had no energy left to move. The village voice wrote that Bell asked him to predict what would happen. And Paul said, probably a long jury trial. A lot of people will be hurt. parents, friends. I'll be judged not guilty. Then I'll tear up my roots and settle somewhere else and try to grow new roots. Root will be that, Batman. I can't. I mean, I guess he's looking at it

glass half full. I mean, you would say that. Why does he think he's going to be found not guilty in that he's going to be able to move away? I don't know. At the preliminary hearings, Paul said that, he gave his confession while he was drunk and before he was read his rights. He also said that he didn't call Arthur Bell, but the judge allowed both the confession and Bell's article into court. That's a big blow against you. It is. And Paul Bateson was convicted of murder on March 5th, 1979.

On April 6th, he was sentenced to 20 years to life in prison. assistant DA William Hoyt asked for the maximum sentence arguing that Paul is a psychopath. The prosecutor informed the judge that Paul had bragged about other murders. He said he dismembered the victim's bodies and placed them in bags in the Hudson River. So he bragged about the murder of Addison Barrow. He was ultimately convicted of that murder. He was sentenced. But the prosecutor, you know, he wasn't satisfied with that.

he starts bringing this idea up that Paul Bateson had bragged about a bunch of other murders as well. Hoit said that Paul told a witness named Richard Ryan that he liked to kill and he dismembered the bodies of an unknown number of victims. He put the remains in garbage bags and dumped them in the river. Hoyt also said he had no evidence of the identities of the other potential victims. So now they're looking at a serial killer. And this is where we get into what we referenced in the beginning, what's known as the bag murders. According to Esquire magazine, Hoyt said in court, he told Mr. Ryan that killing is easy, that getting rid of the bodies is the hard part. He said that he cut up his victims and put the parts

in plastic garbage bags to dispose of them. I would also point out to the court that the police have evidence, though there is not direct proof connecting them to this defendant that there were six bodies, torsos of which were found floating in the Hudson River wrapped up in plastic garbage bags. In all six cases, examiners have said that the person who cut up the bodies was a person who's either a butcher or a person with medical knowledge because of the way that the cuts were done. Well, because of his medical experience, you can throw him. into that that mix. Well, it sounds like that's what they're trying to do.

So there were these six cases with unidentified victims during this time. They were referred to as the bag murders. The New York bag murders were a series of murders in New York City from 1975 to 1977. There are some other names for this series of murders. One is the CUPPI murders or CUPPI murders. but there's also some really nasty slurs that have been used in connection with these murders. Obviously, we would never call them that. But six men were found mutilated and dismembered, wrapped in plastic bags and dumped in the Hudson River.

Five of the victims were white, one was black. The bags were found at three-month intervals, starting around Christmas 1975. Some of the victims remains washed up in New Jersey. and others ended up near the World Trade Center. According to Michael Newton's and encyclopedia of modern serial killers, the police traced some of the clothing. They found to a shop in Greenwich Village that catered to gays. One of the tattoos found on a victim identified one of the victims as a known homosexual.

Because the police didn't know the identities of the victims and in some cases didn't have a cause of death. the crimes weren't classified as homicides. Instead, they were classified as circumstances undetermined pending police investigation. And that's where you get the cuppy name. That makes sense now. And I get it circumstances undetermined because you don't know exactly what happened. It's hard not to think that body parts wrapped up in a bag is not some type of homicide though. I don't think it would appear to be an accident to most people, right? You see that?

You're thinking, how can it be an accident? How can you accidentally cut yourself into pieces and then wrap yourself up in a bag? That's true, unless you're a zombie. There's no accident that involves anything like that. Now, now I understand. They don't want to say homicide. They want to, you know, establish a real cause of death. I understand all that. Yeah. Sure. Yeah. But let me be clear. there's no accidental bagging of body parts. No. That just, let's throw that off the table right now.

Hoyt pointed out in court that no more bodies had been found since Paul Bateson's arrest. So, I mean, I think it was clear, right? Prosecutors were trying to link Paul to these murders. But they really didn't have any solid evidence to get convictions. Basically,

to me, it sounds like they were trying to solve these six murders or these series of murders. And here you have. Paul Bateson. Right. Bragging about it. Who was said to have bragged about it. He had medical knowledge, which we already said the medical examiner said it appeared as though the way these bodies were cut up.

It had to have been either a butcher or somebody with medical knowledge. He was a gay man. And he was a gay man. So just based on those things and the fact that no more bodies were found after he was arrested, he could. kind of fit their profile. But that's not enough evidence to convict somebody of murder, right? We know that. And the judge ruled that. There wasn't enough evidence to move forward, you know, linking him to these murders. Quoit also said that Paul Bateson told Richard Ryan that he killed

Addison Varel on September 14th, 1977. And I think that's kind of an interesting statement, if it's true, because now you're trying to tie in these two confessions together. Okay, he confessed to Addison Barrell, which we have evidence of information about, but he also confessed to these, to the same person. So why can't you take this confession, but you can take that confession? Because you only have evidence regarding one, is my thought. You don't have any evidence on the other one. And I think the thought has always been and should be.

that a confession alone is not enough. You've got to have something else to back that confession up. Something, something to support it. Yeah. Yeah. Because if not, a person with a mental illness who came in and confessed to a crime

would just automatically be found guilty. Yeah. You had to vet it out, right? Yeah. You got to prove it. Bateson said it is sentencing hearing, I still contend that I'm not guilty of the crimes. And I'm not the person described by Mr.

Hoyt at all, I feel a great loss for Mr. Varel, and I'm not at all the type of person as he has described me. According to Matt Miller's 2018 Esquire article, the only evidence of Paul Bateson confessing to the bag murders occurred during his sentencing hearing. Miller wrote that the New York County clerk was unable to give him a full trial transcript. Matt Miller spoke with a New York PD detective. The detective told him that they hadn't found documents that indicated that the police investigated Paul Bateson's involvement with the six murders. So again, it's such a strange thing to me that this prosecutor was trying so hard to convince the judge that Paul Bateson was also guilty of these six murders. It literally had no

evidence of it whatsoever other than the fact that somebody said that he told them that he had done it. and the fact that they weren't even investigating them. Exorcist director William Friedkin visited Paul Bateson in prison. He told outlets that Bateson implied he was offered a plea deal for confessing to the other murders. According to Friedkin, this was part of his inspiration for the movie Cruising. In magazine wrote that cruising is about a cop who works undercover in the New York City gay scene to find a serial killer. Cruising is based on a 1970 novel by New York Times reporter Gerald Walker. Have you seen this movie? Gibbs, I've never seen it. I've never actually even heard of it.

I have not. But apparently it's a very controversial movie and many members of the LGBTQ plus community opposed the production altogether. In a 2012 movie notebook interview, Friedkin spoke on some of his earlier films and he also talked about cruising. He said, I have a short degree of separation from the actual murders of cruising. There's a scene in The Exorcist where there's an arteriogram. It was done at NYU Medical Center by an actual neuropsychiatric surgeon and his assistant. These guys were real. They weren't actors. The assistant was a guy named Paul Bateson. About two or three years after the movie came out. I'm reading the New York Daily News and I see Paul Bateson's picture in the paper and there's a long story of how he suspected of having murdered eight or nine people in the

S&M clubs in downtown New York. I asked his lawyer if Bateson would see me. Word came back that he would. So I went to Rikers and I saw Paul Bateson. I asked him if he had murdered these people and he said, you know, I remember murdering this one guy, Addison Borell. was the theater critic for variety. Bateson picked him up in a place called the Mineshaft in Lower Manhattan, took him home, they took a lot of drugs, he wound up hitting him over the head with a frying pan. This is what he said, and then cutting him up and putting the parts of Borell's body and body bags that were found in the East River. Though Bateson worked with a brain surgeon, he himself was not a brain surgeon because the body bags all had little indications

that they were from the NYU Medical Center, and that's how the police tracked it. So obviously, he's giving this interview, you know, many, many years later. It was like 40 years after the actresses came out, 30-some years after the murders. He got Addison's last name wrong, called him Burrell. That wasn't correct. And he was talking about, you know, him being dismembered

and put in bags that were labeled as NYU Medical Center. I'm chalking all of that up to 30 plus years and not remembering exactly what happened. But he said what happened to Paul Bateson, as he told me at the time, was that the police offered him a deal. If he would confess to eight to 12 of these murders, they would shorten his sentence. I said, why? He said, so they could get headlines that 12 unsolved murders were now solved. I said, what are you going to do? He said, I don't know.

I'm not sure. He got out five years ago. So Friedkin got some things wrong in this article, but I thought it was interesting, him kind of trying to recount this conversation that he said he had with Paul Bateson. Another thing that I found interesting was that, you know, was reported that Bateson's former colleagues, they didn't even learn about his crimes until he was sentenced. Yeah, today, I don't think that would happen today. Well, no. I mean, the news is very different today, right? with the 24-hour new cycle and all the digital media and everything.

I think you would learn about it very, very quickly. In a 2018 interview with Esquire, Dr. Lane said he was the chief neuroradiology technologist. He was the most experienced and he was the best. He taught me an awful lot. And I considered him a good friend. When you do radiology, even though there's the radiologist who's kind of the doctor, you also have a very important support team.

And I couldn't have done it without Paul. He was really excellent. I didn't realize until many years later that he had killed a man. I thought it was bizarre. I just had no idea. It would be so weird. To find out that this person that you worked with, you liked, you respected, had killed someone? Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. You think about all the people that you and I have worked with over the year. Sure. if it, you know, at some point in the future came out that years ago they had killed someone or they were a serial killer or something like that, you and I would have a lot to talk about. We would. We'd be going back through our, you know, our minds analyzing all the interactions that we had with that person was, you know, was there any clues?

Yeah, we'd call on conversations and things like that. And we'd probably be saying the same thing that this guy said, had no idea. never would have thought, right? You hear that in so many interviews in these episodes that we do. I would have never thought that this person was capable of doing X. Dr. Ajax George told Esquire magazine, people were shocked. There was no inkling in his behavior that would raise any suspicion. He was very good with the patients and he was extremely smart. He was an asset to the department. You call me that sometimes. An ass. Oh, no. Oh, leave off the the ET, that you're an ass in the department.

Paul Bateson was never charged with the bag murders and they remain unsolved. The bag murders victims remain unidentified to this day. So I don't know if there's enough out there on this for us to actually do an entire episode on the bag murders. Obviously, we'd have to talk about Paul Bateson again a little bit. Sure. But we're looking to it. Yeah.

We might check it out to see if there's enough. It might be tough, you know, when you think about the fact that all of these victims are unidentified. Okay. You can't talk about them at all. No. Can't give any background, backstory, nothing like that. It would be difficult. Paul Bateson was released from prison on August 25, 2003.

And according to N Magazine, his current whereabouts are unknown. Now, there are some sources that say that Paul Bateson died on September 15th, 2012. according to an article from back to Stonewall, the Social Security Death Index shows that Paul F. Bateson, same birthday and same social security number from Pennsylvania, died on this date. So if that is true, I would say there's a very good chance that Paul Bateson is no longer alive. What a lot of listeners will find interesting and may remember is that Paul Bateson's case was

featured in season two of Mind Hunter, which referenced the unsolved bag murders. In the Mind Hunter episode, Bateson says, they keep trying to get me for that. The cops actually said, if I confessed, I would do less time on a plea deal. They just want to say they closed the books. Matt Miller wrote in his 2019 article that he never found any evidence of any plea deal. in Magazine wrote, it's not impossible that Bateson was the person responsible for the killings, dubbed the bag murders, but other than brief mentions of it, there's no evidence to corroborate the claims. It seems more likely the police suggested to Bateson that if he confessed to these other

murders, whether he did them or not, he could get a lighter sentence for the murder he did commit, and they would be able to close the cases. And I could see where that could happen. I'm not saying it did happen because I don't know, but I could see where a detective or some detectives who were anxious to close some cases could try to make that deal. It wouldn't be right. No. But I could see where it could happen. And I'm sure it has happened.

Sure. Maybe they thought it would benefit the community by getting these cases closed. Sometimes it just benefits the detectives or the police department. Yeah. I don't know that there would be much altruism in their thought process, if that's the route they were going to, they were going to go. I mean, you could make the argument that it would maybe ease the minds of some people in the community if they thought that the person who had committed these murders was now behind bars.

But if it wasn't true, it would, it would just be fake. But I guess it could do that. It's not what you want to see your, uh, your police department's doing. No. That's obviously not the right way to go about it. So as we wrap up this case gives, Paul Bateson was convicted of one murder. He may have confessed to more, but ultimately he was never convicted of the bag murders of the 1970s. I think it's safe to say, even to this day, there's still quite a bit of mystery that surrounds the life of Paul Bateson.

Yeah, did he, didn't he? Well, and let's even go beyond the bag murders. You think about New York City in the 1970s. It was a really rough place. The murder rate was extremely high. Sure was. So is it out of the realm of possibility that he committed other murders that we don't know about? I would say no, absolutely not.

Well, you know, if he did commit these murders, it probably would have benefited him at that time to find a way to make a deal. Because if you're going to go to prison for one, why not? go to prison for all. That way when you're out, it's done. Instead of them coming at you at 2003, when you get let out of prison and they're like, hey, we just found some new evidence. Now you're going to go back. Yeah, I get that. It just seems to me as though if this was really true, there would be evidence of a plea deal. Yes. And we would be able to give that evidence. But there was no reporting on it. You know, Matt Miller looked into it. He couldn't find anything. So it doesn't seem to me as though there was, it could have been discussed,

a possible plea deal. Sure. But I don't think there actually was one. And I think that makes sense because if you have a plea deal, then he would have been convicted, right, of these other murders, these bag murders. But I'm not going to say it's not possible that a discussion like that wasn't had. Hey, what if you go ahead and confess to these murders and maybe you get the same time, maybe you get just a little bit of extra time, maybe you get less time. I don't know. I don't know how you could get less time for admitting to, you know, a bunch of additional murders. But that's the story of Paul Bateson. Gives, we've got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Yes, hear him. Hi, my name is Teresa Huffman. I feel like to Scott finished listening to the Anthony

it frank story yes you did say it wrong is opalusus um our cajan names i guess um i am from lapiat louisiana i'll have both your guys and i've been listening to y'all for almost four years keep up the good work bye shocker did i said it wrong i could have played 20 of those voicemails and i got a bunch more messages as well yeah could we look it up should we look it up ahead of time probably just listen to me. I try to tell you. You did. You did. I should always listen to you. Yeah. But there's a part of me that just wants to give it a go and then let people correct me. Because I think people enjoy it. They do. Hey guys. This is Christina. I'm a recent trip. This is Cincinnati from Florida. Much prefer Cincinnati. I have a suggestion. I grew up in

upstate New York. And then it was probably there. I think it was the early 90s. I was seven or eight when this happens. But a local teenage girl murdered her boyfriend, and she stabbed him over 20 times. And she actually got off and only spent five years with required therapy. And April de Lillio, and the victim was Matthew Eccas. So it's always been something that bothered me because I felt like she did not, she did not get the time that she should have, especially for the crime that she committed. And then what's interesting is that my older sister, this occurred really early in the morning. My older sister was walking out of getting a dog and actually ran into her right after she killed him.

She was throwing her duffel bag with all of her bloody clothes and those weapons and stuff into the creek as my sister saw her. So my sister actually had to testify at the trial. So anyway, I thought that was a good one. And I hope you guys have a good day. I really appreciate what you do to do. I like the fact that your episodes are longer and more detailed. I prefer that more than the short ones where people are laughing and joking the whole time. You guys are funny enough.

You know, it's awesome. And, yeah, have a good day. You know, it's so weird when you see somebody the next day after they murdered someone or some or many people. I just remember my neighbor across the street cutting his grass after he murdered his family. Like, no big deal. Just outcutting his grass. Yeah. somebody messaged me. I can't remember if it was Facebook or Instagram, and they gave me a name

of this person that they believe is the person that you've talked about a number of times. Yeah. Throughout the years. And I don't know. You've never actually said the name, so I couldn't confirm nor deny it. But I think that's why it would stick with you when she said, oh, this case really, you know, has stuck with me over the years. Well, there's an immediate family member who was, you know, very involved. So, yeah. But we'll definitely look into it. Hi, Mike. Hi, Gibby.

This is Shalene calling from Oregon. And I just wanted to say that since I found your guys' podcast probably a month or so ago, I've been completely obsessed with it. I listen to it every workday. So I listen to probably three to four episodes a day. And it gets me through my workday. And I just finished listening to the Briley Brothers episode. And I'm just shocked with how,

deranged these brothers were and i have i have to say like it really got me riled up because you know i have a four-year-old daughter and i just it amazes me that someone could be so vile and do those type of things to a child and a pregnant mother and just the whole family so anyway that that one really got to me but um yeah i just i just love your guys's podcast it's really the only podcast i've uh ever listened too. But yeah, keep it up. Keep up the good work and keep your own time ticking. Thanks. Bye. All right. Love it. Thanks for the voicemail. You know, I will say this. I think there are certain episodes, and that was one of them, that are tougher to do than others. There are some that stay with us longer than others. The research stays with us. True does. And I don't think, I was afraid that this would

happen, but I don't think you and I have gotten jaded. to what some of these people do. You know, there's a danger that doing it for so long, week in, week out, at a certain point, it's like, I've seen that, I've heard that. No, it still rouses up. It still is stomach turning, some of the things that we research. Yeah, we both have that look on our face.

We're going to be sick or from time to time. Yeah, I know you cry almost at least once an episode. Yeah, there's nothing to do with the onion sitting here. So we appreciate the voicemails. We also had a lot of mailbag. Rachel Bonia sent us in. Actually sent you in. A big thing of red vines and some potato chip Reesey cups.

Chomping on them right now. Look good. Cassandra sent us in a cool felt ornament knife from her Etsy store, Moonray Mama. Cool. It's actually really neat. Yeah. And then Giesel sent us in some key chains and Harley chips from the great state of Wisconsin. All right.

Go Wisconsin. So we appreciate all of that. All right, buddy, that's it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.