True Crime All The Time - Paul Ezra Rhoades

Episode Date: September 23, 2019

Paul Ezra Rhoades was an Idaho man who murdered at least three individuals in a short span of time in 1987. Paul had an abusive childhood and was stricken with polio. Bad luck seemed to follow him throughout his life, including debilitating workplace accidents. But, this was a man who preyed on individuals working alone in convenience stores late at night.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the life and murders of Paul Ezra Rhoades. What set this man down the path to murder at the age of 30? How much of it goes back to what he witnesses on a daily basis during his childhood? According to police, Rhoades is most most likely responsible for many more violent crimes including additional murders. You can support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise and donation informationSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 149 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime Mike Gibson. Give me how are you man? Hey man I'm good about you. I'm doing great. Yeah. 149. You know what that means? It's a big number man. It's a big number. But it also means next week is 150. Hey man, that was your high school weight. Yeah, actually it probably was. I probably wait about a buck 50 soaking wet. Yeah. But it also means we have something big plan for 150. We're doing a big timer. We are.

We haven't disclosed who it is. There's a lot of speculation on some of the Facebook pages. Dexter. Dexter. Yep. There's a lot of people trying to figure out who it is. Our Patreon folks will know a day ahead of time on Saturday. Yeah.

When our weekly video comes out. But I think people are really going to like it. It can be good. But it is hard to believe. when you think back to when we started, 150 episodes. Man. Doesn't even seem possible. No, man.

I just remember sitting in the office talking about, thinking about doing this. And here we are, 150 episodes. Wow. And you're all in. All in. Yeah. All right, Gibb, so we had some new Patreon supporters. So let's give us some shoutouts.

Good. We had Angela Pupingen. Hey, Pupingen. Rebecca Maples. What's up, Maples? Shandra Lapitas. Hey. John Darge.

Hey, Peter's Mark. Michelle Sharmaq. What's up, Sean Mark? Michelle Grigg jumped out of our highest level. Thanks, Michelle. Appreciate that. Charity Stegman. Hey, Charity.

Christy Stone. Hey, Christy. Caitlin Tegler. Hey, Caitlin. Christopher Austin. Hey, Christopher. Sarah Storm. What's going on, Sarah?

Bill DeWan. DeWan. DeWan. DeWan. Lauren. Lauren Mitchell jumped out to our highest level. Hey, Lauren. Lindsay Hutchinson.

Thanks, Lindsay. Sarah Egan. out of our highest level. Man, thanks, Sarah. As did Glinda Perton. Paritin. We had Pamela Kaczynsko. Hey, Pamela.

Lucy Qualls. Thanks, Lucy. Kelly France. Hey, Kelly. And then last but not least, Mary O'Donnell jumped out of our highest level. Man, O'Donnell. So I appreciate all that new Patreon support.

And then if we go back into the Vault Gibbs, this week we selected Crystal Weiss Om Redchick. Um, Redsk. Yep. Yeah. Been with us a long. time. That's a name that I remember saying years ago. I had to teach you how to say it. I'm like, you did slow down. You had to break it down phonetically. It's like, here's the hyphen. Now go.

It was a, it was a site to behold. We had some PayPal support as well. Alana Bush. Man, Alana just keeps a bush. I know. Yep. Came out with a big donation. Mary Ashley. Hey, Mary. Jenny Warnke. Hey, thanks, Jenny. And mystical phenomenon. It's a phenomenon. Phenomenon. So I appreciate all the support that we get. We love it. It goes a long way.

It's awesome. So talked about next week is the big 150. We have an episode out right now on T-CAD Unsolved. It's on Emmanuelella Orlandi, a very fascinating case that takes us to Rome, ties to the Vatican. So everybody check that out. It's a good one. It is. Don't forget about the reviews are in.

And then this Tuesday Gibbs, we're talking about the girlfriend body pillow. Yeah. I don't know if you have one of these. I assume you do. I don't, but I probably should give one. I feel like if you don't have one right now, you will be ordering one. Maybe I'll sleep better. Maybe.

We'll see. Yeah. Oh, we won't see because I won't be there to see. That sounded strange. Yeah, that's really weird. Gibbs, we had a Patreon merch winner for August. Awesome. And it was Lisa Davies.

Hey, thanks, Lisa. So big shout out to her. Yeah. All right, man. Are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am. First off, let's give a big shout out to Lana Hyatt. Hey, Lana Hyatt.

For her help with writing and research on this episode, we're talking about Paul Ezra Rhodes. And we're headed to Idaho. And you know, Gibbs, we have a lot of listeners in Idaho. We do. It's already, we got a little controversy going. Well, there's the whole Utah slash Idaho fry sauce. debate. Yeah. We actually received a huge package this week from Idaho. We did. That we'll talk about in the mailback section. Yeah. But in Paul Ezra Rhodes, we're talking about a man who

kidnapped and murdered at least three people, two women and one man that he was convicted for. This is a scary looking guy Gibbs and some of the pictures out there. To me, he looks like a cross between Ozzy Osbourne and meatloaf. Probably on Tinder he was getting a lot of, he'd get a lot of swipes the other way. Probably. Yeah. Not the singer, not the delicious meat dish.

That, yeah. You hungry? Hey, Ma! Can we get some meatloaf? Chas, I think I'm okay. I had a bite right before I came over. Thank you. You sure?

You know what? I will have some meatloaf. Let's have some meatloaf. You want some? Yes. I knew you'd go. Hey, Mom! The meatloaf!

We want it now! The meatloaf! What is she doing? I never know what she's doing back there. Manah! The meatloaf! I love that, man. Yeah.

First of all, I love that movie. It's a good movie. The fact that Will Ferrell plays such a small part, but the part is amazing. Oh, yeah. You know, like he not steals the movie, but to play such a very small role, it's so funny. But you remember that scene. You remember when he's at the wedding, doing the fake crying. I'm at the wedding.

At the funeral. Yeah. So anyway, this guy's not a looker. And we'll post some pictures on our Facebook page as we always do. So let's start with some background on old Ezra. I really enjoy saying the name Ezra. Ezra. I do. I like, I like it. I like to say it. You know we love to get into background when the info is out there. I do think a lot of times it can help give some type of understanding of what type of environments these perpetrators. grew up in. And maybe for some, what led them to do some of the things they did?

Yeah. Like last weeks. Yeah, for sure. People really got, I don't want to say, almost said they got a kick out of it. There were a lot of people that responded to that episode. Yeah. Of Leonardo. It hit a lot of people in a bunch of different ways.

Their gut. In their gut, a lot of them. So Paul Ezra Rhodes was born January 18th. 1957 in Idaho Falls, Idaho to Pauline and August Rhodes. He had two brothers and two sisters. His dad had a relatively low IQ. I never found the exact number, but let's say Gibbs, it doesn't even come close to comparing to your Mensa-like IQ. It's a difficult thing to do. It is hard. Yeah. You know, we talk about it a lot. It's quite an achievement. Now, The fact that you had a huge banner made up and posted it on the front of your house, hung it.

I thought that was over the top. You should have seen the cake. You had a cake made too? Oh, yeah. When you found out or just like last week? Just, just recently. On the daily. On the day.

Yeah. But the thing about Paul's father was he had a really jacked up childhood. He was physically abused. It was said that he was suicide. So all of this was before he married Paul's mother, had the family. But then you talk about the family, right? Paul's parents were physically, verbally, emotionally abusive to each other. And like you and I talk about all the time, the kids saw that abuse. They witnessed it. What does that do to a person? Does it as we've posited put it in some people's minds that, oh,

oh yeah, this is how you treat people. Right. It's possible. Yeah. But they didn't just witness it. They experienced it themselves. And that's often the case, right? That kind of abuse between parents sometimes extends to the kids and it did in this situation.

There's not a lot of specifics about how Paul was abused, but it's probably not that hard to figure out. No. You know, there's a history of alcohol. Paulism, drug addiction within his extended family. Yeah. His parents are fighting all the time. It's not that hard to imagine some of the treatment that he and his siblings endured. Sure.

There's definitely going to be some spillover. There's no doubt. Yeah. Not a good childhood. Let's put it that way for sure. At the age of four, Paul contracted polio. So with that, he spent a lot of time in the, hospital, he ended up having to have a number of operations. This caused a lot of pain. It also left him

with a lifelong limp and like a permanent lack of coordination. Which happens. I mean, I knew somebody that had polio when they were young and their feet kind of had a deformity. Their toes all went inward. All of their toes went inward on both feet. Which would make it hard to walk. Exactly. And would make coordination tough as well, I would think. And it's rough to try to find a pair of flip-flops. I thought you were going to say that it was FDR, because it would not surprise me to learn that you knew FDR. Yeah, I'm not that old, but, you know, maybe I thought you guys hung out.

Channel them up through told stories. Yeah. So as Paul got in to school, right? He was picked on a lot. And it caused a situation where he was fighting all the time, fighting other kids. Now, there are a number of theories on why he was fighting all these other kids. One was because his last name was Rhodes. Now, the name Rhodes doesn't mean anything in and of itself, but apparently in that community, you know, this family was not seen in a very good light. I thought you were going to go with Dusty Rhodes, by the way. Dusty Rhodes. You know.

I do know. Yeah. No. The name Rhodes is fine. It's just in this community, people thought, and they came out later and even said this in some interviews, they thought that this Rhodes family was white trash. That's what they called them. It reminds me of that movie. And I wish I could remember the name in the movie.

I always wish you could remember it. I don't know if you're going to get it. but it's it's a movie with all these like red-headed kids and they're the meanest kids and they keep picking on these nice kids and uh somehow at the end in the movie the station wagon and their dad's driving it goes off the road and it explodes and they all die and everybody's like happy about it yeah wasn't that billy madison is that billy madison oh doyle's rule that is it was that billy mad i thinking that was Billy Madison. It might have been.

Yeah. Mean kids. Don't make me play the Billy Madison clip again. Yeah, I don't want that. People got a kick out of that one. Yeah, I'm sure they did. So the family name is one theory. The other theory is that kids teased him about his dad's low IQ.

It's not out of the realm of possibility. Kids get teased about their parents. Oh, yeah. Especially back then. For certain things. Yeah. And it definitely could have had. something to do with the fact that he had polio.

Yeah. You know, you and I have talked about it. Anything that other kids see is different, especially in the time where when you and I grew up, that was fodder for teasing, bullying. And sadly, something like having a deformity. Yeah. That would get you picked on.

It would. You know, physical deformity. or a speech impairment. Anything. Anything like that. Yeah. Like my speech impairment. I know.

I know that's why you said that. Yeah. The difference is you were a husky boy very able to take care of yourself. That is true. A lot of kids are not. No. And I think today it's changed. It has changed.

There's no doubt. My kids talk about it all the time is a lot of anti-bullying. But don't get me wrong. It still goes on. Oh, absolutely. I think more so. today it probably goes on in the cyber world. Yeah, behind these little screens.

People don't know who's really saying it. Posting it on somebody's Facebook page. It's not so much teasing at school anymore as it is needling people through social media. Which is just as bad today. Sure. But because of the polio, right, Paul couldn't go out. He couldn't play with the other kids. He couldn't play sports as the other kids were doing.

By the age of 10, he started drinking and would eventually get into, you know, some pretty heavy drug use in the ninth grade. He dropped out of school. By the age of 16, he was working full time, which you're going to have to do if you drop out of school in the ninth grade. Yeah, if you want to eat. He was involved in an industrial accident where the tips of his fingers, Gibbs, were coming. cut off. Man, this dude just can't catch a break. He cannot.

Now, nobody's going to feel sorry for him because he's going to do some really bad things later on. But so whatever job he was in where this industrial accident happened, he's not going to be able to do that anymore. So once his fingers healed, he went to work with his uncle, his brother and his dad in a drywall construction business. Which is a tough job. Very tough. Yeah. Anybody who's ever carried sheets of drywall, especially downstairs or it is not the easiest thing in the world to do. I think they make special hangers to help you carry him.

I didn't have those. Yeah. Still not fun. Either way, it's not fun. But he excelled at it. He was really excellent at it. Yeah. It was said that he was very, very good.

I think he was a good craftsman. I think he was good with his hands. At some point, Paul tried to enlist. in both the Army and the Marine Corps, but they wouldn't take it. Well, polio. Yeah. I mean, he had very obvious physical problems that resulted from this polio kind of reminded me of Captain America.

Isn't that what Captain America had, polio? You're talking about in the movie? In the movie, yeah. No, no, I'm talking about the real Captain America. There's not a real Captain America. No, there's not. That's not real. I don't know if he had polio or if he was just really small.

I think he was just really, but maybe him not growing to his full potential was resolved with having polio. Yeah, I can't remember what they said in the movie. Yeah. But let's get back to Paul's family. His sister was sexually abused by some cousins and one of her uncles. I can't stress enough how dysfunctional this family was. Even the extended family.

Extended family, right. there were multiple reports of what you would have to classify as unhealthy sexual behavior among his sisters, like we said, his extended family and himself. Now, there is some debate about whether the relationship and or the sexual activity that Paul had with some of his family was consensual or not. either way, it's very strange. Well, it's wrong. It's wrong.

Hey, sis, you want to, you know, and she's like, sure, doesn't mean you still go ahead and go through with it. And this is one of those things where it didn't just come from Paul. It's not like Paul said in prison, oh yeah, I had sex with my sister. Right. His sister is on record as admitting that it happened. Yeah. And not one time. I mean, this was something that went on for many, many years.

Steady. What I could not figure out was whether this was something that they both wanted, or if this was something that he wanted and made her do. Right. I could not figure that part out, but it's interesting, if that's the right word. Yeah, I'm trying to use. Yeah, yeah. It's interesting in looking at the life of Paul Rhodes because, so here's another thing. Paul's uncle took his own life. Right. after he did, Paul started having a sexual relationship with his aunt. Clearly, he'd like to keep it all in the family. Apparently, maybe many members of this family did.

Maybe it's why the name Rhodes in that community was not thought of that highly. We're not talking about DeWaltons here. No. This is not good night John boy or whatever it was, they said. It was a good night. Hey, who's going to get and who's, bed the night. Which I never understood. It took like, that would take like 45 minutes for people to get to sleep to have to say good night back and forth to all these people. Yeah. That wouldn't last in this

house. No. You'd be like, y'all just be quiet. Go to sleep now. First of all, it would require everyone going to bed at the exact same time, which I don't know in how many households that actually happens. My wife goes to bed about four hours before I do. Your wife's in bed right now, probably. Right. And it's still light out. Yeah. But Paul had other interests as well, besides what seems to be an unhealthy amount of sex within his own family. Apparently, he liked to fish. Okay. You like go boating.

That's good. But he also liked to read fantasy novels. Like, like, harlequins? Harlequins? Or that. I didn't say romance novel. Well, I don't know. I mean, they're fantasy.

Well, they are fantasy. You're right. How the romance world really works. Well, and actually, you're absolutely right. I don't know because it wasn't very clear what type of fantasy we're talking about. Yeah. But the reason I bring it up and why I think it's relevant. Relevant?

Relevant is because is he living in a fantasy world? I think a lot of these killers do. Yeah. Look at BTK. Oh, for sure. Just watch, you know, I have started the second season of Mind Hunter. Yeah. They're diving a little bit more into BTK.

a couple episodes in, that guy had a rich, rich fantasy life. He did. And a lot of killers do. And ultimately, that fantasy life is not enough, right? It has to eventually manifest itself in the real world. Oh, yeah, then because they really want it, you know, they got to have somebody else in it with them. So that's the only reason I bring up the fact that he's reading these fantasy novels. Hey, listen, a lot of people read fantasy novels.

I read them. You do? Yeah. What's your fantasy novels? Harlequin romance novels. No. I read a lot. Yeah.

It doesn't mean that I want to thrust myself into the role of whoever. Are you talking about your furry books again? No. I'm talking about, you know, Jack Reacher, Tom Clancy books. It doesn't mean I want to go out and start a war or. No. you know, be a vigilante or anything like that. All right.

But for some people, it does. Oh, yeah, I'm sure. So we've talked a lot, we've talked a little bit about Paul. And even though he did fight a lot in school, he was not described by others gives to me in the way that I think you would expect. He was described as a non-aggressive person, easygoing. Yeah. Kind of animal.

Yeah. The type of person that wouldn't hold a grudge. this does not sound like your typical killer. I think even babysit some kids in the hood. He did. Did you say in the hood? That's what I say. You're too lazy to say the neighborhood?

I am. Yeah. He babysat other people's kids. He babysat for various family members. Now, as somebody that would like later find out what he was like, wouldn't you be like, I can't believe we let him babysit our kid? or if you're one of those kids. Well, that's another story.

But apparently they all loved him. Yeah. They looked at him as kind of this father figure. You know, he probably just sat there and played tinker toys or whatever they had back then. Matchbox cards. I like my tinker toys. I'm sure you did. They were fun.

But other than the relationship that he had with various family members, I don't mean to laugh about it. It's not really a joking matter. I do find it very strange and very odd. He didn't really have any serious romantic or any other type of relationships with women. Because you can never find anybody. Remind him of his family. Of his sister, maybe. I don't know.

He did have apparently a lot of female friends who he was protective of. And that was one thing that was said about Paul Rhodes. He was protective of women. It's strange. It's not going to square with what he's going to do later on. He was protective of his female friends. He was protective of his sisters. His family, you know, they thought this is just a quiet guy.

There was no way he was capable of murder. Yeah, just a good old boy. But he did have a criminal record that included some nonviolent offenses like resisting and obstructing an officer. He had some petty theft. He had one called inattentive driving. Oh, I hate that, man, when that happens. Is that where you just not paying attention? You're like, yeah, and you're like, really?

Is that a crime? Didn't know that was against the law. He was also caught driving with a suspended license. I see a lot of inattentive driving. And if I see one more person playing Candy Crush on their damn phone when I'm on the highway. Yeah, you're going to crush them. I'm going to run over them with my four by four. I cannot stand that.

I don't know what they're doing, but. You see them on the phone. They're definitely on their phone. weaving and coming over into my lane yeah to the point where I have to honk the horn then the Hulk comes out the road rage Hulk I have to flip them off I get upset and it takes me like three hours to calm down and they're like what what I do what I do you you made me mess up my however candy crush I was on I was on a high score roll I was going to hit level 10 so I mentioned what I thought was this comparison of Paul to Ozzy and meatloat

He did have long black hair, tied it up in a ponytail. He wasn't a small guy. He was 6-2-260, but he was described as having a pear-shaped body, Gibbs. I'm not really sure what that is, but it does not sound good. That's not good. That can't be good. No. And did you say he tied his ponytail up or back?

It just said he just had a ponytail. I didn't say, you know, okay. I thought, tied it up. I thought, did he have a bad, a hair? A mail bun? He didn't have a male bun or anything like that as far as I know. Not in the pictures that I saw. All right, Gibbs. Let's talk about ZipRecruiter. You and I both know how tough it is to hire good people. Hiring can be a slow process. Cafe Altura's C.O. Dylan Miskowitz. He needed to hire a director of coffee for his organic coffee company. But he was having trouble finding qualified applicants. So he switched to

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ZipRecruiter.com slash T-Cat. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash T-CATT, ZipRecruiter. Dot com slash T-Cat. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. So this brings us to the night of February 28, 1987. We're at the Red Mini Barn convenience store in Blackfoot, Idaho. 21-year-old Stacey Baldwin was working the night shift. Stacey was known as a very kind person. She had a deep love of sports. This is a woman Gibbs who had

just married her high school sweetheart about six months earlier. She's a newlywed. She arrived at work at the convenience store around 9.45 p.m. And there was another employee working in the store till about 11. But from that point on, she was going to be by herself. Now, there are some reports that Paul roads had been loitering around different convenience stores in the Blackfoot area, in the Idaho Falls area. In one instance, he allegedly pulled a hood over his face and he just peered through the window of this convenience store at the female clerk who was working there as she was kind of closing up the store.

That would be eerie. That would be scary. It would be. You know, a woman working late at night by herself just to have some strange guy covering his face looking through at you. A little spooky. I'd be spooked. I'd be spooked as a man.

If another man was peering through the window looking at me. That would be strange. I'd say, stop looking at me, Swan. Yeah. So Paul Rhodes got to the Red Mini Barn convenience store sometime around midnight. He was packing a pistol. A short time later, girls were going up to the store when they saw a man kind of very hurriedly leaving the store,

get into a pickup truck and drive away. The way they said it Gibbs is it was pretty reckless. Like he was peeling out. He was speeding. Yeah. He was trying to get away in a hurry. As the vehicle passed these girls, what they later described to police they saw was two people in this truck.

But none of the girls could really. accurately describe the two people. They're like, I know, Ozzy, meatloaf. It was one of those two. Yeah. They could give a description of the vehicle, which police would later determine was one used by the Rhodes family in some type of snow plowing business that they had. Sounds like they had a number of businesses going on.

So eventually the girls went into the store. And I think pretty quickly realized that there was nobody in there. they called the police, who in turn called the owner of the store. It was determined that there was $249 missing from the till and that the last transaction occurred at 1212 a.m. Paul Rhodes had kidnapped Stacey Baldwin. He took her to a secluded area near Snake River in Bingham County. And the thing about Stacy, friends and family all said this about her.

This was not the type of person. that was just going to let someone kidnap her or let someone do something to her that she didn't want done. She's a fighter. She was a fighter. But Paul would later say, you know, he was intent on raping Stacey. But she fought him tooth and nail. Did everything she could to ward him off and to try to escape.

And it was at that point where she was trying to get away from him, maybe crawling on. on her hands and knees through the snow that he started firing his pistol. The first shot didn't hit her, but it hit something else. I don't know if it was a tree. All the reports say it ricochayed, came back, hit Stacey in the elbow. Okay, that's going to hurt. Right. It's not going to kill you, but it's not going to feel good.

But he didn't stop there, walked over to her, shot her in the back, puncturing her lung. Well, that's going to keep her from crawling away if she can't breathe, right? Yeah, punctured lung is not going to be good. And police could later tell from footprints left in the snow that Paul walked up to Stacy and then just turned around and left. Essentially, just left her there to die. And they said she probably suffered Gibbs for one to two hours by herself in the snow. They determined that from the,

the aspirated vomit found at the crime scene, as well as two quarts of blood and air in her chest. So her chest filled up with. Had to be painful. Oh, my gosh. It's heartbreaking to think about this young woman who I mentioned was just married, right? Six months ago by herself in the snow, fighting for her life. And there's no way she's going to win the fight. Nope.

All by herself. So Paul Rhodes murdered Stacey Baldwin. And then he went to a local cafe. This is around 2 a.m. Met with an unidentified male. And this all comes from a waitress that waited on these two guys. And she later said that she remembered him. This was a big guy.

He had a ponytail. He had what appeared to be like construction dust or drywall dust all over his clothes. Yeah. You can pretty much tell people that work, you know, if you're sanding drywall, it's all over you. You're not going to get rid of it without getting home and changing and all that. This waitress said that the two men, they didn't talk much. They just sat there. And the meeting lasted about 30 minutes and they left.

Hey, hey, how you doing? Good. That was it. Put yourself in the mind of a killer. You're a killer. Yeah. You have just murdered. tried to rape, but then murdered a young woman.

Yeah. What would your next step be to go to a diner, get a cup of coffee, a slice of pie? It doesn't seem like it. I think you'd want to get out of town. You want to go hunker down somewhere. Clean up evidence. Something. It just seemed very strange.

So when the police first started to investigate this thing, right? they don't know where Stacey is. Initially, I think they thought it was a robbery. But then Stacey's body was found the next morning next to some dumpsters on this access road leading to an archery range. By that point, they knew it was a murder, right? She had been shot. Paul would later talk about it and say, you know, he had wanted to put Stacey's body into one of these dumpsters, but he decided not to because he didn't want to get blood on himself, which is kind of smart. I mean, I'm not saying it's not as a killer.

Right. On the one hand, putting the body in the dumpster would hide it, keep somebody from finding it very quickly. But on the other hand, you are essentially taking the crime scene with you and all, or all the evidence of the crime with you. It's going to be all over you. Now, later on, an inmate that Paul Rhodes was with in prison said that Paul told him that before he shot Stacey, he told her to pray. And he said that Paul told him he didn't intend on killing her. He had no designs to kill her when he started out. His only thought was rape.

But when he wasn't able to commit the rape, because as we talked about, she was fighting him. Right. She was crying. She was doing whatever she could do to get him off her. He shot her. Yeah, he's always going to come off on the latter side. Like, I was just going to rape her.

That was it. Like, that's terrible. Right. To him, that was it. That was all I was going to do. And I'd like he probably wasn't going to kill her, but come on. I mean, was he going to leave somebody behind that might be able to identify him later? I don't know.

And if it was a one-off situation, okay, maybe. But we know he kills two more people. Yeah. So it's kind of hard to think that that's very true when what happens down the road doesn't really bear that out. Yeah, he's just a terrible person. So. But then something very strange happened, Gibbs. A couple of weeks later, a man named Kevin Buchholz was arrested on a drunken disorderly

charge. This guy was a mess. I mean, he was so drunk, he was fighting the cops. And as they were taking him to jail, apparently he said, I don't care. I was the one who killed the girl at the mini barn. Why don't you pin that on me? I did it. So he confessed to the murder of Stacey Baldwin. And then again later, in the holding cell, he told another officer that he shot the girl from the mini barn. twice in the back. He also said that he stole a green pickup truck, which he got rid of after he committed the crime. The eerie thing about all of this is that the details are somewhat consistent, pretty consistent

actually with what actually happened. Yeah. We know she was shot twice, but this guy later recanted his statements, said that, you know what? He was just angry because he thought the off. officers that arrested him were piling on the charges. He probably got pulled over for a DUI. Then they got him on drunken disorderly, maybe resisting arrest. He was getting upset because they just kept adding on the charges. So he said, you know what? Well, I killed the woman at the

minibarne too. I don't just throw that on top. It's like the breakfast club, you know. All right, Mr. It's another detention. Does Barry Manilow know that you rate his? his wardrobe. That's not from the movie. I'm just actually asking you that question. And then it came out that this guy had an airtight alibi. Couldn't have been him. So they didn't charge him. They pretty much stopped looking at him at that point. But then you talk about the town, right? The whole town is on edge after Stacey's murder. As happens a lot of times in some of these cases, especially in smaller towns, people are out buying guns. A lot of times, you know, the gun stores get wiped out. Yeah. After something happens where people are this on edge,

people are wondering, you know, is this a serial killer? Is there somebody on the loose? Am I next? I'm not taking any chances. One person that tried to help the police was a young vocational student named Nolan Hadden. Nolan also happened to work at a convenience store called Bucks. And while he was working, he saw a $5 bill with what he thought was blood on it. So, you know, he's thinking, okay, there's this big case, there was money stolen from a convenience store. Maybe this was part of it. So he called the police. Now, it turned out not to be blood. But what Nolan Hadden didn't know at the time, was that he was actually helping to try to find the person that would be his killer. Yeah.

It's a very odd, eerie thought. Sure. To think that you're the next victim and you don't know it. And you have no idea. Nolan was described as an easygoing guy. He liked to fish. He liked to hunt. People talked fondly of him, said that he liked to cruise around town in this.

1956 Chevy pickup truck. Cool truck. Very cool. I would actually like to have an older pickup truck. Yeah. And have it left with the patina. Oh yeah. With a clear coat over top.

So it looks like it's kind of really old. Right. But have the guts and the engine and the suspension and all that completely redone. I think that would be very cool. You should do that. I might do that. Yeah. I don't have the money to do that, but I'd like to do that.

Call your friends at the, uh, monkey space garage or whatever they're monkey space garage on the night of march 17th 1987 nolan was working the night shift at bucks in idaho falls this was about 29 miles away from the convenience store where stacey was abducted nolan's older brother clay stopped by the store to check on him that night he was most likely the last person to see him alive now the detail on this one are pretty slim. But at some point, Paul Rhodes entered the store and shot Nolan Haddon five times. Yeah, quite a bit, man. Five. Five times. One of the bullets severed Nolan's spinal cord. So I think based on that Gibbs, the thought is that there's a very good chance Paul thought

Nolan was dead. Well, you would think after five hits. Well, and the severing of the spinal cord, he probably wasn't moving at all. He wasn't dead, though. The next morning, Nolan was found by the store's owner. He was unconscious, but he was a lot. He found him in the walk-in cooler in a pool of blood. Maybe that helped him stay alive by dropping his temperature down enough. Maybe it did.

Yeah. Maybe it did. I don't know how cold it was, but obviously I don't think it could have hurt, could it? I don't know. You and I are not medical experts. so I don't know. Unfortunately, Nolan Haddon died later

at the Eastern Idaho Regional Medical Center. When they did the inventory of the store, they found that some Bick lighters were missing, some Marlboro cigarettes, and $116 in cash. Man, so for $2,250 worth of cash

and merchandise, max probably, this kid lost his life. You took somebody's life. Yeah. Now, I will say this, I read this in a couple of different places. There are some investigators that have theorized, and, granted, it's only a theory that Rhodes may have thought initially that Haddon was a woman.

Because Nolan did have longish blonde hair. Okay. Maybe from behind or whatever. He thought that this was a female clerk working alone. You ever made that mistake? Seeing somebody with long hair. Actually, I have before. have you? And they turn around and you're like, oh, it's a guy.

Yeah. I'm not to the point where I ever called somebody the wrong pronoun or anything like that, but you're like, hey. And then they turn around and you're like, hey. That's your thing. I don't say. How you doing? So it could be that. I mean, I think the other thing that kind of jumped out at me is this is the only male victim that we know about from Paul Rhodes. Yeah, I think you're right. It could have been just mistaken identity when he first walked in and at that point, he was already committed. Yeah, he could have been committed and thought, you know what, I'm going to go through with it anyway. There won't be a sexual assault, but I'll steal money and take some things. Because just two days later, 34-year-old Susan Mikkelbocker, who was a special education

teacher at Eagle Rock Middle School, woke up feeling sick. She wasn't feeling well. But as a teacher, and I can speak to this. My wife's a teacher. This has happened to her before. When you're sick as a teacher and you're going to get a sub. Yeah. If you don't already have sub plans made up, you have to figure out a way to get some plans.

Now, today with the technology that we have now, it's pretty easy. You do it on the computer. You email it to another teacher. Voila. Back then they didn't have that. You had to write it all out and run the plan book. up, right? Yeah. So Susan knew she wasn't going to be able to work that day. She was not feeling well, but she had to get into school to make a lesson plan for the substitute. So she left her home around

6.30 a.m. At around 7.30 a.m. A van very similar to Susan's was seen in a grocery store parking lot. And the reason why the person that saw it, it stuck with them was because the van almost hit them. You remember something like that. You would. Any other van, you probably don't even give it a second thought. This person also recalled seeing a man matching Paul's description in the passenger seat of the van.

The next thing that is known happens around 8.30 that morning. Susan is in the drive-through window at her bank. And this is just as the. bank is opening. She cashes a check for $1,000. That's a lot of money. Probably not typical to see that that early in the morning. No. And probably not from her. No, but obviously she has the money to cover it. 15 minutes later, Gibbs, she goes to another bank and does the same thing. Susan's husband got really worried when she wasn't home by 5.30 p.m. That's pretty late for most teachers. Yeah. I'm basing that on my wife. Now, she does teach elementary school when it gets out fairly early,

but, you know, she's home well in advance of five o'clock. Her husband called to school. And that's when he found out that she wasn't there all day, except for going in to, you know, drop off this lesson plan. She didn't teach. So he's got to be racking his brain. He's got to be freaking out thinking, you know, is my wife. Can you imagine back then if you could access your account right away and he'd see that she took out a couple thousand dollars? What would he think? She's left me? Probably. That's what I think they would think. I don't think very many people had cell phones in 1987. I think the richy riches maybe. Maybe. I don't think Don Johnson had his yet. He finds out two days later March 21st when Susan's body was found in a rural location.

And this was a location that it said there was a lot of lava rock. There was a lot of brush. Sounds like it was pretty remote. When police looked at Susan's body, they saw evidence that she fought really hard. And Gibbs, this was probably of the three murders, the most brutal. She had a lot of. abrasions on her chin, on her face caused by Paul Rhodes, essentially dragging her across pavement or something to that effect. He raped her and he shot her nine times. And this is another

situation that you and I have talked about before. I believe it was a 38 revolver, which means it most likely held six rounds. Right. So he probably fired. all six. Had to reload. Reloaded and then fired three more. They figured out that the first shot was fired while Susan was standing up. It hit her and her left femur and basically incapacitated her. Well, she's not going to be able to run off now.

No. Going to make it much harder to fight, much harder to get away. All the subsequent shots were fired while she was laying down. one of them hit her in the chest at close range. So at that point, she blooded to death. She did. But that wasn't enough for Paul Rhodes, right,

to commit this very violent sexual assault, this rape of Susan, and then to shoot her nine times. No, he had to put his penis inside her mouth. He ejaculated inside her mouth either, while she was dying or after she was already dead. Either way. Disgusting. Disgusting. And to me, I don't know if it is sexual in nature. I don't know. I don't know if it is

someone wanting to degrade another human being after what they've already done to them. I don't know what the mindset is in that scenario. Right. And maybe it was both. Eventually, police, police took swabs inside Susan's mouth. They found pubic hair inside her mouth. And when they searched her vehicle, they found some hair as well. So you have three murders. Ballistics linked all three of them. Now, this is another situation where you have multiple jurisdictions. Right. That always causes problems. But once all three got on the same page, they were able to. You know, they were able to, link all three murders to the same person. And it really wasn't that long before witnesses started to come forward and provided sketches of the person that they saw with both Susan and Stacey. Because there were

eyewitnesses in both of those cases. Now, there was no eyewitness in the case of Nolan Haddon. So it didn't take police long to start to zero. on Paul Ezra Rose. He was involved in a police chase with an Idaho state trooper. He was driving his mother's car. And during this chase, he wrecked it. Okay. He got out, left this car in the median of Interstate 30 and took off.

Now, he's in Idaho, but he's only about 20 miles from Nevada. He's going to make that, going to try to run to the border. He's going to make a run for the border. Yeah. Didn't take police long, right, to figure out whose car it was. They called Paul's mom. She said, I don't know. Who stole my car?

I have no idea. But inside the car, they found a 38 caliber handgun. So police get to into Nevada. They've got flyers with Paul's picture on it. They're circulating these all around. And on March 25th, 1987, with the help of the public, They found him at a blackjack table in Wells Nevada at the Wells Casino where he was arrested. So he's like, you know what?

I'm on the lamb. I'm on the run from police. But I got to get a couple of hands of blackjack in. Got to try. I might be able to make me a little money to get further down the road. I'll just split every pair. See if I can double up on my bets. Double down.

When he was frisked, the police found a watch very, very full. similar to the one that Stacey Baldwin was wearing the night she was killed. Now, later on, when he was asked about it, he said, I found it. Of course. What was he going to say? Right. Yeah, I killed her. I took the watch.

No, I found it somewhere. Police officers also claim that while they were arresting Paul Rhodes, he said, I did it. Now, that's going to come up at trial. That's going to be a pretty big point. A huge point, I think. But what you do have. Gibbs is you have the 38 caliber gun found in Paul's mother's car that ballistically is matched to all three murders. You have witnesses who identified Paul Rhodes in lineups. Sounds like a slam dunk.

You would think. Right. Now, I talked earlier about this inmate who came forward with some things that Paul told him while they were in jail together. He also talked to the prosecutors and he gave them some details of the crimes that he said Paul told to him. And these were things that nobody but the killer could have known, which is pretty incriminating. Yeah. An inmate who wasn't involved couldn't just make it up. I think police knew these were very accurate details.

there wasn't much doubt that Paul Rhodes had told this guy. Right. These things. When you get to trial, we're not going to spend a lot of time about on the trial, Paul's mom testified that Paul was at home during these murders. He was babysitting on the night that Stacey was killed. That was a big point of contention in the trial. But there were some things that the prosecution had going against them.

I think, you know, I said it was kind of a slam dunk. They didn't find his. fingerprints on the gun. They didn't find his fingerprints in Susan's van. They did find fingerprints of other people inside the van. But that's something you would expect. Right. If I, if I, if I dust your car right now, no, you don't want to dust my car right now. No, I don't because I don't want to put my own DNA or anything in it as a potential crime scene later on down the road. But if I were to dust your car, if I knew how to do that, I would find not only your fingerprints,

but a bunch of other fingerprints of people that rode in your car. Allegedly. Allegedly. So that part in and of itself to me means nothing. And then I think you look at the fact that his fingerprints weren't found on the gun or in Susan's van. Okay, well, did he wipe it down? I don't know.

Well, you got to remember he didn't have all his fingertips. Well, that is true. Or maybe he would. was wearing gloves or gloves without the right thing to do without the fingert tip with the fingertips cut out one of like those cool little like like my motorcycle gloves yeah maybe he was wearing those his defense attorney really tried to use this point you don't have his fingerprints you don't have all of this he was quoted as saying that the charges against paul roads were based on opinions emotions double talk and weasel words he called him weasel word.

I don't know what that means. You know, a weasel. Polly Shore is the weasel as far as I know. Had seen Polly Shore had seen Polly Shore in a long time, man. Yeah. It has been a long time. The one thing they did have at trial Gibbs was the semen samples taken from Susan's body. Now, it was the late 1980s.

So what they could tell was that it matched Paul's blood type. They also said that the hair. matched microscopically. Now today I do think that would be a slam dunk. I think so too. The semen and the hair. Yeah, I think with the advancement in science for sure.

But even back then with a jury when the prosecution or especially, you know, somebody from forensics came and said, I looked at it the hairs under a microscope and they matched. Right. That weighed pretty heavy, I think. I think so, too. With the jury. It doesn't carry the same way.

is saying, like what they would say today, you know, with DNA, it's one in three trillion or whatever. But that's what they had back then. The other thing I found interesting was that Idaho had abolished the insanity plea, the insanity defense in 1982. So Paul couldn't take that route. Not that I don't know that he was insane or anything like that. He did have a jacked up childhood that I'm sure a defense.

attorney could have played up and maybe parlayed into getting some type of professional to declare him that. Possibly. But Paul made a deal with the prosecution. He took an Alford plea in the death of Nolan Haddon in exchange for second degree murder. So for that he got an indeterminate life sentence. He also got the same for robbery. So he took this Alford plea in the death of Nolan Haddon. But he had a trial for the murder of Susan. He had a trial for the murder of Stacey. What's interesting was that in Susan's trial, they couldn't bring in any evidence related

to the other two crimes. They also couldn't bring in the confession by that guy, buckholz. The drunk guy. Right, which you know the defense would want to bring in. Oh, absolutely all day long. How can my client be guilty when... He admitted it. This guy confessed to it.

There was a gun owner that testified that Paul bought A38 and ammo just days before the murders. So Paul was found guilty of everything in the trials for Susan and Stacey. But one of the convictions I want to talk about, it was called infamous. crime against nature. That was the charge that he was convicted of, one of many, right? He had first degree kidnapping, first degree murder, robbery, rape, all of that. But one charge was infamous crime against nature. And when you look it up, it talks about any sexual penetration, however slight. Now most of the time, I think it refers to sodomy, fallatio, actually sex with animals too, which is brutal.

Yeah. But he got convicted of that charge in, in Susan's case. Because we, we detailed out what he did. At one of the trials when the death sentence was read, he got up and he threw a chair at the prosecutor. But at that point, who gives a shit, right? They're going to put you to death anyway. He might as well hurl a chair at somebody.

He's trying to get out his own frustration, man. Well, what are they going to do to you? Put you in time out? you're going to be put to death. Whatever you do from that point forward, they can't do anything else to you because he, you know, he got death sentences for both Susan and Stacey.

One interesting fact that I read Gibbs was said that Susan's trial cost the county $157,000 from the time that he was arrested through the end of his trial. So that's not prison. That's just the time in jail and the prosecution. and all that. Right, just to work through the case.

He did try numerous appeals. One was on the grounds that the judge that presided over his Alford plea for the murder of Nolan Haddon was against him because he also happened to be the judge that gave him the death penalty in the case of Susan Mikkelbacher. He also claimed ineffective counsel due to the fact that he, he didn't get the assistance of mental health experts. His attorneys didn't present evidence to the court that Paul had these incestuous relationships.

They didn't present all of his family history. Now, he never brought it up because as he said, his family was in the courtroom and he didn't want to embarrass them or himself, really. Hey, sis, remember when we used to do this, this and this? Yeah. But he's going to bring it up on a piece. but none of it mattered because Paul Rhodes was put to death on November 18th, 2011 by lethal injection. At the time, he was the first person to be executed in Idaho since 1994. Just 54 years old. Yeah, he was only 54 years old, but that's a 17 year span.

Maybe they don't execute that many people in Idaho. Maybe they just give them some of Utah fries sauce and say. The Utah fries. We know it's not the real thing. Torture. His final meal, which apparently is the same for all inmates in the state of Idaho. And I kind of support this, right? You don't get to pick.

This is what you're going to eat. It is somewhat strange. Hot dogs. Sourcrow. Mustard ketchup. Unions relish. Baked beans. Veggie sticks.

Ranch dressing. Fruit with gelatin. and a strawberry ice cream cup. It sounds like a high school lunch is what it sounds like. For a day at the ballpark. Yeah. What if you don't like sourcrown? I guess you take it off the wiener, man.

In his final statement, he said to Bert Mikkelbacher, I'm sorry for the part I played in your wife's death. That was it to Bert. Sorry about what I did. Sorry, sorry, man. But then in talking to the families of Haddon and Bolton, and Baldwin, he said, you know what, I can't help you. You still have to keep looking.

I'm sorry for your family. I can't help you. I took part in the Mikkelbacher murder. I can't help you guys. I'm sorry. And then he told his mom goodbye. He turned to the executioner and said, I forgive you. I really do.

I found this fascinating. First of all, he didn't say I killed Susan Mikkelbacher. Right. He said, part in the Mikkelbacher murder. I found that of strange odd phrasing. Like who else was you was you? I was just a part of it.

But then to completely remove himself of any responsibility for the murders of Nolan and Stacey. And to tell their families, I don't know what to tell you. I didn't do it. You're literally minutes away from being put to death. Well, maybe it's he had another personality and that personality wasn't involved. You've done so many heinous things in your life. You're about ready to be put to death. You would think, Gibbs, you could just take that little sliver of time that you have left

and do one honorable thing, right? Tell the families of these two murdered victims. I did it. I'm sorry I did it. Or whatever you have to say, but to say, you know what, I didn't do it. When forensically, ballistically, the same gun killed all three of these people. Yeah. Just admit it.

Go out with some, give them some peace. You can go out with some peace. That's not what he chose to do. But here's something else that doesn't make sense. Apparently he wrote some things that came out later that said, three people are dead because of me. I needlessly cause their deaths. I cannot erase the family's loss, the pain they suffered because of my crimes, nor can I take away the pain endured by each of their family members.

So you're going to write it down, but you're not willing to say it to the family members themselves who are there. Give them a little respect. I don't get it. I don't get it at all. Paul's mother released a statement that said, we are very sorry for what happened to the victims. We know there's nothing we can.

say are due to console their families or understand the pain they have endured all these years. So Gibbs, as we wrap up this case, there are a few other crimes and murders that Paul is suspected of committing. In early March, 1987, so this was after the murder of Stacey Baldwin, but before the murder of Nolan Haddon, Rhodes is suspected of kidnapping a 19-year-old woman. This woman was abducted three days after Stacey's body was found. And apparently she was getting money from the ATM. She was abducted at gunpoint, robbed of $90 and raped. But she was let go. And authorities could never figure out why if it was Paul. And they do believe it was Paul, why he would have done this. why would he let this woman go given the other crimes the murders that he committed they couldn't

figure it out there was a witness that saw a man that they said look like paul standing next to his vehicle they said it looked like he was having some car trouble the woman thought it was very odd he was out of place so she wrote down his license plate number later gave it to police it turned out to be Paul's car. Yeah. So it was him. She also picked him out of a lineup. But the police really didn't pursue it, did they?

They didn't because by the time it came out, Paul had already been arrested for the three murders. Now, I'm assuming maybe if he somehow magically would have been acquitted of all these murders, which was never going to happen. I'm sure they knew the evidence that they had against him. They could have prosecuted him for it. Authorities also believe, but have never been able to prove that Paul Rhodes killed Christine Gallagos in Utah in May of 1985, as well as 20-year-old Carla Maxwell in late in Utah in 1986.

And judging by how bad this guy was, I'd say if I was a betting person, I'd put money that he probably was involved. I would too. I really do. We just didn't have time to go in depth into those cases. But that's it. That's the case of Paul Ezra Rhodes. Very bad man.

Very bad man. I wanted to get one more Ezra in there. Gives, we've got some voicemails. You want to hear those? Let's hear them. Hi, Mike and Gibby. My name is Kathy. I live in College Station, Texas.

I have really enjoyed listening to your podcast like every day while I work. really keeps my mind going, honestly. I was wondering why, or maybe you have. I've listened to so many of your podcast, but I have not gone on the Patreon yet, but could be something on there. I had thought you had done so many of the big serial killers. I was wondering, Henry Lee Lucas or Angel Recendez.

Of course, they're both have Texas ties, and that's kind of why they came to my mind. Anyway, you keep up the good work, keep them coming. I just recently started listening to true crime all the time unsolved. And those are just as good. So thank you so much and keep your own time ticking. Yeah, so we appreciate that, voicemail very much. I think, you know, we just talked about it earlier, right?

150, we have a, what we call a big time or a big time serial killer coming up. we have a lot that we haven't done. And that was on purpose from the beginning. We didn't want to run through all of the what people consider to be big time serial killers. Right. We wanted to sprinkle them in. Now, we probably won't go as long before doing another one.

We kind of have almost gone 50 episodes, really, before doing another big time serial killer. There's a lot that I want to get to. Yeah. But at the same time, you and I plan. on doing this for quite a long time. We didn't want to run out of the big time serial killers. I know. And we do enjoy doing the lesser known. We do.

And people really like them. So. Hey, guys. My name's Lindsay. I'm calling from Northern Ireland in the United Kingdom. I just wanted to say how much I absolutely love your podcast. I've never listened to one until about two weeks ago and decided that I wanted

to listen to one about Jeffrey Dahmer and came across the two episodes you did on him. Absolutely hooked. I know. I'm an artist and I work from home. And it is so nice to have that on in the background now because it kind of feels like I'm not in my house all the time by myself. So it's really awesome. I love it.

I've just supported you guys on Patreon. So keep up to good work. Love you. Wow. Well, we love that. We appreciate it very much. I like a lot. And I love that accent.

The Blarney Rock. I think they call it the Blarney Stone. The Blarney Stone. But you can call it whatever you want, Gibbs. The Blurney Rock. Hi, this is Jamie Scheit and Schneider Mitchell from Brooklyn, New York, and just wanted to say hello to you two guys. I really enjoy your podcasts. They really make housework a lot more tolerable.

I've got an idea for a podcast for you. He's got a man from Amish country by the name of Edward Ingritch. Back in 1993, he killed his wife in front of two of their children. They just kill her. He also, because of his children. schizophrenia felt the need to perform his own autopsy. So that might be an interesting one to explore because I don't know about you, but I very rarely hear of crime coming out of Amish country.

Anyway, I'll close this out and not take too much of your time, but we just wanted to say thank you for the podcast. God bless you and keep you and keep your own time ticking. All right. Believe it or not, Gingrich is on the list. Yeah, somebody coming out, Brooklyn, man. Yeah, you and I, where we live, not too far away from where we live. There's quite a big Amish community.

There is. Yeah. Scattered around. More central, I think, Ohio. Yeah. Than really where we are. But it is interesting. It's going to be a good case when we get to that.

We will definitely do it. Hi, this is Grant Whittinglow from Puehlup, Washington. And I'd like to bring a case to your attention. It's the case of Kimmy Daly. She is a developing disabled teenager that was brutally raped and murdered by another teenager. his name was Tyler Savage. The act in itself is heinous, but it's what he did afterwards.

That is absolutely astounding. Kimmy was a student of my mother's. My mom taught her for three years, and I got to know Kimmy, and this case has a particular interest in mind. So, yeah, you guys are doing a great job. I love your guys' podcast. I subscribe to all of them,

but you guys have me coming back week after week, and it is amazing. Thanks guys and keep your own time ticking. Appreciate that. Yeah. Appreciate that voicemail very much. And you and I've talked about it before, Gibbs, these connections that people have. You know, his mother taught the victim. So there's a connection there. Oh, yeah. We're finding more and more of these type of cases. Yeah, a lot of people are reaching out about them, but we'll definitely take a look at that. All right, we had mailbag. Kristen Walters, who works at a beer distributor, she sent us the biggest box we've ever received.

She crushed it, man. There must be 20 shirts in there. There's hats. There's bottle openers, key chains, jerky. So we've got the whole shebang. The only thing's missing is the beer truck. There's no beer, but a lot of beer paraphernalia. We're set.

Apparel. Yeah. It's awesome. Thank you, Kristen. Jessica sent us a postcard from Diagon Alley. Diagon Alley. Due to your love of Harry Potter. Harry Potter.

Paula Hammond sent us a trade journal. Really? Which is all about the Texas judicial system. Oh, yeah. And I found it fascinating. I haven't read all of it, but it's very interesting. You should read up on it, and then I'll quiz you. Yeah.

Okay. And then Kat sent me some Harley Chips. Okay. She sent you a T-shirt. Awesome. And then she sent both of us a huge box of the candy bars that are called Idaho spuds. Idaho spuds.

So that's what I was referencing earlier in the episode, that we were doing a case in Idaho. We're trying them out. Yeah, I haven't tried one yet, but hopefully they're not potatoes covered in chocolate, because I don't know if I like that, but I'm assuming they're not. What if they are? Because they're made from a real company. You just ruined. Ruined her gift.

Like she didn't make it herself and called it Idaho Spud. She's like, I sit you chocolate cover potatoes and you just said you won't like it. I don't know. I don't think I would. All right, Gives, we got to get out of here. That is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.