True Crime All The Time - Pedro Lopez

Episode Date: December 17, 2018

Pedro Lopez is a serial killer that has confessed to murdering 350 young girls in the South American countries of Columbia, Ecuador and Peru. He was convicted of 110 murders in Ecuador alone and confessed to 350 in total. But the story of Pedro Lopez is unlike any that we've ever covered. The number of his known and suspected murders are staggering, but its the numbers of years he spent in jail and where he is now that will also shock.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss one of the world's most prolific serial killers. Find out what happened in his childhood that caused him to become "The Monster of the Andes". People will be shocked at just how much time he actually served in prison and the fact that he could still be out walking the streets and killing today.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

and welcome to episode 109 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson, and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, what is going on? How you doing, man? I am doing great. Yeah? Yes. Good, man. I'm living the dream. Yeah, you're unemployed. I'm living the dream, man. Working out of your basement, playing video games. Yeah, you're doing well. I don't have to leave the house if I don't want to. Yeah, man, you're wearing flip-flops. and sweatpants. I'm actually, I'm not in sweatpants today. That's true.

Were you shocked when you came over? I was shocked. I was like, wonder what's up. He must have to go outside to do something. I did. I had to go to the UPS store. Yeah. All right, Gibbs. Let's get straight to our Patreon shoutouts.

Let's do it. We had Christine Peterson. Hey, Christine Peterson. Maggie Rudy. Hey, Maggie. Ivy Lee. Thank you, Ivy Lee. Crystal Shonowski.

Crystal Shonosky. Michelle Swango. Hey, Michelle Swingo. Randy Beard. Hey, Randy Beard. I'm not sure if I'm saying that right. You say it like Arnold. That was actually a good Arnold.

Yeah. Cheryl Tyrell. Hey, Cheryl Tyrell. Amy Wood. Amy Wood. Brandon Brown. Hey, thank you, Brandon. Marina Bingston.

Marina Bingston. Michelle Ray jumped out at our highest level. Hey, Michelle, thank you. Barbara Julian. Hey, Barbara. Aaron Barzac. Aaron Barzac. Will Katan Jr.

Hey, Chris Katan's kid. Related to Chris. Sarah Locke. She's locked. Buddy Koochta. Oh, da. I got a good. Angie Boswell.

Hey, Angie. Joe A. Walters. Hey, Joe. Hey, Joe. Walthos. Kristen Smith, who's been a long-time supporter, up to her Patreon donation. Yeah, thanks, Kristen. I appreciate that.

Very much appreciate you. Yeah, she's a really good friend of mine. And William Cordell. William Cordell. And then gives if we go back into the vault. Yeah, let's do the vault. This week we selected the Minds of Madness. Yay.

Tyler and Beck. Tyler and Beck, good friends of ours. They support us on Patreon. We support them on Patreon. They just have a really, really good true crime podcast. Yeah, I like their podcast. It's very, very good. And they're good people.

And they're good people. And you and I have been talking with them about possibly doing something together. Pretty big. In person. Yeah. It might be live? Live even. So there's see you in your furry suit?

Right. I'm going to wear the furry suit just because, you know, I don't want to get nervous. be in disguise. You go as my concho. I'm going to sit in the audience. You just going to be in the audience. Yeah. And then we had PayPal as well. Okay. Darcy Judd. Hey, Darcy. Hannah Loughlin. Oh, Hannah, thank you. Alexandra Eklund. Alexander Eklund. Alexander Eklund. And Deborah Pfeiffer. So we... Why does that sound Fifer? Fifer? Fifeer. Fife. I know. You're thinking of Michelle Fifefer? No, I'm thinking of the Fokkers. And don't they talk about the Fifers? I don't think so. I don't remember that. You don't remember that movie? I remember the Fokker, the meet the Fokers or meet the parents, but I thought Fyfer was in there somehow. I don't remember Fyfer. I thought you were thinking of maybe

Michelle Fyfer. It's spelled totally different. I know Michelle Fyfer. I'm sure. Everybody our age remembers Michelle Fyfer. Yeah. But we appreciate all that support, right? We do. We really do. Patreon, PayPal. It really means the world to us. And it's not just those. It's folks telling their friends. Yeah. We've got a lot of good traction right now. and it's amazing. Yeah, we do. We appreciate everything that you guys do and just keep doing it. That way we can be around for a long time.

Yeah, we want to. And hopefully, I think, based on comments, people want us to. Yeah. That's always good. It works good for everybody. Absolutely. So let's talk about what's out right now on true crime all the time unsolved. Yeah, we got Karen Tipton.

Karen Tipton. We're down in Alabama in the late 90s. It involves a brutal murder. It's just a terrible thing that happened to her. And the whole process is terrible because they think they find out who did it, but they realize that. They turn out to be wrong. They're wrong. Yeah.

And it goes through several stages. And at the end of the day, it's still unsolved. So there are multiple victims in this one, not just Karen who died, but the individual that was accused, accused and convicted. Right. And spent time in jail for her murder. Sure. And then you got, you know, the, her husband. her husband, her two daughters that, you know, for the rest of their lives are going to wonder who did it and why until it's solved.

So definitely check that out. All right, Gibbs, are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime All Time? Yeah, this one intrigues me. So, yeah, I'm absolutely ready. What's very different for us, number one, we are going down to South America. Yeah. We've never been. Give you a chance to maybe do some strange sounding.

South American accents? accents. I don't know what South American accent. I was going to say. I mean, Spanish, right? I mean, South America, you think you'd have a lot of Brazilian and Chile. Brazil is in South America. You are right.

You know, Costa Rica. Ecuador. Ecuadorian. Peru, Colombia. Yeah. I mean, I did spend time in the Ecuador jungle, so maybe I can pull that out. When you were filming Predator, didn't you film Predator, the movie Predator down in the I was just a stand-in?

Yeah, but you were the stand-in for. for Arnold, you were his body double. I thought that was a big deal. I thought that was a big deal. I was a little too short as Arnold was like six foot two, but, you know. I'd be Bach. It was years ago, but it was a feather in your cap for sure. Yeah, it was something that, you know, you put on your resume.

But the other reason why this episode is different, well, the volume for sure. Yeah. There's no doubt about it. We have never covered a case where the number of victims. is believed to be this high. We've covered some monsters. We have. But we're talking about a guy in Pedro Lopez,

who's also called the monster of the Andes, you know, he's confessed to numbers in the 350 range. It would make him one of, if not, you know, the most prolific serial killer in the world. Oh, absolutely for sure. And it's really almost hard to believe, Gibbs, that, you know, this is a guy that authorities believe may have murdered two to three girls a week. That's insane, man.

Over, you know, maybe a three-year time span. He murdered outside of that. But they think within about three years, he was averaging two to three girls a week murdering. It's hard enough for me to work. Well, this guy wasn't, I don't think he was a nine to five or. Well, man, I can't imagine how he found. But it's terrible. And what a monster.

And I think what makes this episode different from some that we do, when you're talking about 300 plus murders, right? There's no way to go into the details of those murders. You just can't do it. We'd have to do two months worth on this guy to even, you know, crack that. Right. So this is a little different the way that we're going to approach this episode. but the one thing I will say about Lopez, and you'll see it as we go through when we get to it, his MO was the same.

And whether he really killed 110 or he killed 350, I believe he killed them all the exact same way. And we're going to go through that. The only thing I don't like is not being able to pay homage to the victims by name. But the problem is they don't know the names of all these victims. And if we did, it'd be really tough for us to, I mean, there'd be the whole hour of us trying to pay on, you know. And we wouldn't even get through it. No, we wouldn't even get through them all. So this guy's very similar in numbers to another famous serial killer down in South America.

Right. Luis Gerevito. And we've had him on the list for a long time. And I know we'll do him. But this was submitted by a listener. And when I started researching, I thought, this is one that I really want to do. Because unlike other serial killers, there's a, there's a twist in this thing that's unlike anything we've ever seen or talked about.

And I don't think this guy's as well known. And you always know I like to, I like to do those when we can. Right. And that's kind of strange to say, a guy that they think killed 350 people may not be that well known. But I don't think he is. I don't think he's, he's definitely not in the pan. antheon of the gaisies and the domers and all that. Part of that's because, you know,

we're talking about Colombia and Ecuador and Peru. We're not in the United States. Right. But the twist is that this guy gets out of prison. How do you get out of prison after killing so many people, young girls? And then we're not even sure where this guy is today. Is he still alive? Did he move? Is he living in your town? This is this is kind of the one of the big twist. I think he moved to the United States. I think he was working at a dispensary in Denver, Colorado. Medical marijuana dispensary? Yeah. Hmm. A good cover. Yeah. But we'll get, we're going to get into all those details. Let's start with his background. Pedro Alonzo Lopez was born in Santa, Isabel, Columbia on October 8th, 19th.

to his mother, Benilda. His father, Madardo, he was killed months before Pedro was born. Really? And what was known in Colombia as La Villancia? And I had to look it up, Gibbs. I never heard of it.

Had no idea what it was. Apparently, it was this 10-year civil war that happened in Colombia between the conservatives and the liberals. So you have a conservative party, you have a liberal party. They're fighting.

They took it to the streets. They took it to the streets. It was 10 years. Tore the country apart. Madardo, Pedro's father, was connected to the right wing party and killed very early on because it kind of started around 1948. Right. He was killed like at the start of this thing while Benilda was pregnant with Pedro. So Pedro Lopez grew up extremely poor with his mother, but he had 12 siblings.

siblings eventually. I think he was the seventh of 13. His mother would later say that, you know, as a boy, he was a good kid. And she even said that he talked about becoming a teacher at a young age. But Pedro Lopez has less than stellar things to say about his mom. Right. It didn't really go both ways. He said she was physically and emotionally abusive. She was a sex worker. I think that part's pretty well known. I don't think that's just him saying it. But she was oftentimes brutalized by her clients, which is a hazard of that occupation.

We know that. We've talked about that. But Pedro would later say that all 13 of the kids slept in a big bet. I don't even know how that's possible. I got a king-sized bed. I don't know how I'm going to get 13 kids in there. Yeah, I can see, you know, squeezing in maybe. If you really wanted, if you really enjoyed pepping people up on your space, you might build

like line up maybe eight if they're skinny. I was thinking eight would be, and that's if you had like one of the big kings. Yeah, you had to have a California king. You got people stretched out all over. I'd have somebody like laying, somebody gets the feet position where they're laying across all the feet, you know, at the end of the bed, you know? They had to have like three or four people in the feet position. Yeah, yeah.

On this bed. It'd be rough, you know. I'd be like. But it wasn't, it wasn't just that they slept in this bed altogether. It was that the bed was part of a bigger room. And in this same room, Pedro's mother would service her clients. Oh, so it was a working office. This is where she, yeah, this is where she entertained clients.

Yeah. And all that separated Pedro and his brother's, and sisters from what was going on with their mother was a sheet draped up. Oh, just a sheet hanging from, okay. So day after day, they're hearing the sounds of sex at a very early age. Sweet, sweet, making love sounds. I don't know if it was all that, but this is going to come back. I mean, this is going to.

Isn't that what Will Ferrell said in that, when he played that San Diego? when he played that San Diego. You're talking about Ron Burgundy? Yeah, when he played Ron Burgundy. You can't remember Ron Burgundy. All you can remember is he said San Diego ends. He was in San Diego. But he wanted to make sweet love noises or something with her,

Christina Applegate back when he went back to their house. Make sweet love noises. Yeah, I think he said, I just want to make sweet. Make sweet. I don't remember that being the exact quote. I'll have to watch it again. But we'll go with it. Yeah.

But kudos to you for getting the wolf. Farrell and the Christina Applegate. Yeah, I've got the main characters. Didn't get the name of the movie. You still haven't said the name of the movie. Anchorman. Anchorman. It came to me.

But think about that. Day in, day out, having to listen to that. Probably we're witnessing some of it as well. Yeah, that's terrible. He's going to make a lot of that. And profilers are going to make something of that as well, right? Robert Wrestler, other profilers have said, kids that are exposed to hardcore sex or sex mixed with violence, you know, at an early age,

are more likely to develop these violent sexual fantasies and things. At the age of eight, Pedro's mother kicked him out of the house after she caught him touching one of his sisters inappropriately. It's eight years old. He's homeless, living on the street, begging for, food drifting from town to town at the age of eight. And he met a man who offered him something to eat, offered him a place to stay. When you're homeless at eight years old, that's a pretty good offer.

It's a really good offer. You're not going to be able to pass that up. No. Unfortunately, this was not a good Samaritan. This was a pedophile who took Pedro Lopez into an abandoned building and assaulted him. sodomized him repeatedly. But it was after this incident at the age of eight years old that Pedro would later say he knew he was going to become a killer.

So disowned by his family living on the streets, he ends up falling in with some street gangs. He starts using hard drugs, some form of kind of a dirty form of cocaine. And at one point he made his way to the capital city of Bogota. And it was here at age 10. He's still only 10 years old, that he ran into an American family. They saw him living on the streets and they offered him some help. They took him in, gave him a place to stay, provided him with food.

They even rolled him in school. And by all accounts, things were okay with Pedro Lopez for a couple of years while he was kind of living with this American family in Bogota, Columbia. But at the age of 12, he had to be a couple of years. He had an incident at school where he is alleged that he was molested by a teacher. Okay. So you get in the cycle here? Yeah.

He was molested multiple times. There's no way to know for sure if this happened, but it did cause him to leave. So I think something happened because he left the comfort of this American family. He had food. He had a place to stay. He took off. He stole some money from the school. to help him, I guess, you know, take off.

This kid's 12 years old. Now, there's no excusing what Pedro Lopez is going to do. This guy's a real monster or is going to become a real monster. But if even half of the stuff that he says happened, happened, he had a very jacked up childhood. And it doesn't get much better as he gets into his adult years. At the age of 18, he's arrested, charged and convicted for stealing a crime. car. So he's off to jail. But on the second day Gibbs that he's in jail, Pedro Lopez is gang raped by a group of men, men. Right. I've seen different numbers on, you know, how many it was, but most likely

it was four men who sexually assaulted him. And the reason I say that is because of what he did next. So he doesn't tell the authorities about what happened to him. him, he starts planning his revenge on these people. So we kind of get an inside of how his mind's going to probably work. Yeah. Or is working. Is working at this point in time. So he made a shank or a shiv.

A shiv. I called it a shiv. We've talked about this on numerous episodes. Yeah. So I finally looked it up. What you're going to go with? Ahead of time. Yeah?

Because I kind of got sick of sounding ignorant. about it, but it led down a bunch of rabbit holes, kind of like we do sometimes on, on TrueCom all time on Saul. It got confusing. What I ultimately concluded was that both words can be used as either a noun or a verb. Sure. So you can shank using a shiv, or you can shiv or shiv and shank. Or you can shiv and shiv or shank and shank. Yeah. It's a little confusing You got a shiv. I always thought one was one and one was the other, but that's not true. But that's exactly what Pedro Lopez did.

He used a shiv to shank the shit out of his attackers. Or he used a shank to shiv the shit out of his attackers. So I don't know. Is that a tongue twister when you say that three times fast or something? I don't know. You can go either way with it. But, you know, it is a tongue twister. Say it real fast a bunch of times.

It's kind of hard to say. Yeah, I won't be able to do. I won't be able to do that. You couldn't get that part out. I couldn't. But regardless, he ended up killing three men. And that's why I say, I think the number is four. I think he killed three of the four attackers.

But authorities basically looked at it as self-defense, even though they did tack on a couple of years to his original sentence. So I think it's important, right, to look back on what we've just talked about. his first 18 years of life because Pedro Lopez has said in interviews that the impetus for his later murders came from what he went through, the molestation, the rage that he felt over being taken advantage of sexually assaulted, brutalized. And unfortunately, he's going to take his frustrations and anger out on scores and scores of young girls in several different countries beginning in the early 1970s after he gets released from this car theft thing.

So he's released. What's he going to do? Just a guy that has no prospects. Right. No education. He's got no money. He's got no family. All he has is this rage inside, which I'm sure got much worse after he got to prison.

Yeah, I would think. And went through what he went through there. But he could have gone a bunch of different ways. he chose to go the worst way or chose the worst path imaginable. Right. He decides to prey on the most vulnerable. So what he did, he began stalking and abducting young girls. Early on, a lot of these girls were from indigenous Indian tribes in, you know, some of the countries in South America. Right.

So we're going to be in Colombia. We're going to be in Ecuador and Peru. Okay. Those are the three countries. where he operated for sure, or at least... Where he preyed on his victims the most. Yeah, where he has confessed to. But most of these were poor girls.

By his own admission, Pedro Lopez has said that by 1978, he had raped and murdered over 100 girls just in Peru. That's kind of what we said up front, right? There's no way to go through all of the victims. I feel bad about that. but it's just impossible. Number one, time-wise, you couldn't do it. Number two, they don't even know everyone's names.

But Pedro Lopez made a big mistake in the late 1970s. And what happened was he had tempted to abduct a nine-year-old girl from a tribe called the Ayachukos. The Ayachukos? I hope I'm saying that right. But he didn't get away with it this time. They caught him in the act and it didn't go well for him. They stripped him, they tied him up, they tortured him. I mean, these are the types of things that I think a lot of us would maybe like to do to a predator of children.

Not saying that all of us would, might be something we might dream about or fantasize about. Yeah. Well, these people, they weren't messing around. They got on it. They were going to kill Pedro Lopez. And they were going to kill him in an easy and painless way. They weren't going to have a trial. There was going to be no jury.

This was tribal law. And they were set to bury him alive up to his neck, pour something sweet on his head, and watch him suffer as ants and whatever else. Just slowly eat away at him. Yeah. ate away at him until he died. So back in the day, the Native Americans would capture, you know, somebody. that was their enemy, and then they would tie them down to stakes. And so they would start fires underneath your ankles and just burn your ankles to the bone while you were still alive.

It doesn't sound good. No. And then they would move to the next ankle. And then they would move to your wrist. And then they would just keep working up through your different body parts and and just torture you a day in a day out until you just, you know, died in shock. I think some tribes did that back in the day. Yeah, I think that's what they were going to do with him. Yeah. Except instead of burning him, they were going to watch small creatures. Devour him.

Devour him to death. Yeah. But it didn't happen. Apparently there was an American missionary in the camp. And this woman persuaded the tribe to hand Lopez over to the Peruvian government. This is going to be a big mistake. stake. Yeah, huge. Because all the Peruvian authorities did was they just simply deported him because they wanted him out of their country. Now, Gibbs, obviously, they didn't know that he had

already murdered hundreds, or, you know, over a hundred probably young girls, but they didn't appear to be too eager to look into this specific allegation, right? Right. Made against him about the attempted deduction of a nine-year-old girl, they just said, you know what, we don't want to deal with you. We're deporting you out of our country. Let you be somebody else's problem. All right, Gibbs,

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So check it out. BetterHelp.com slash T-Cat. Use the promo code T-Cat. So he left Peru. Like I said, killing, I don't even know. He says over 100 girls during his time in Peru. And he just began to do the same things in Columbia and Ecuador. And especially in Ecuador, girls are going missing.

All of a sudden, there's a rash of missing girls around this time at a very alarming rate. And police are not able to come up with any evidence. They don't have any viable suspects. And the years go by. It got so bad Gibbs that these families that are out looking for their daughters, many of them started taking out ads in the newspapers. So there's all these ads in the newspapers saying, you know, have you seen this girl?

That's really sad. It is sad. But it also shows you the number of missing girls during this time frame. And basically all three of these countries, it's spiked. It's one of the reasons why people believe that he may be one of the most prolific serial killers of all time. Then in April of 1980, there was a flash flood in Ecuador, and it unearthed the bodies of four young girls near the town of Embato. Police were mortified. When they examined the bodies of these girls, they realized that they had been strangled.

And it's been reported, Gibbs, that these girls were strangled with so much force that at least with three of the girls, their eyes popped out of their sockets. I mean, that is, I mean, that's really a lot of force, you know. I mean, to make that happen, that's a crazy amount of pressure that you're strangling somebody with. And we'll talk about it a little bit later, but it comes out that this Pedro Lopez was incredibly strong, powerful, at least in his hands. And it's really just a few days after these bodies are unobes. earth from this flash flood that the net started to come down around Pedro Lopez. They don't, authorities really don't know anything about him. They don't know that he's a serial

killer. All they know is a lot of their young girls in the area have been going missing. But it's Pedro Lopez, right? Stalking young girls at a marketplace, which is going to be part of his MO. And he tries to lure one particular girl out when the girl's mother, she sees what's going on. Right. There's a strange guy messing with my daughter. So she takes off after him. And she's screaming. She's hollering for other people to help her. And they do. So it's a mob chasing Pedro Lopez. They finally catch up with him and they hold him down until the police arrive. Now, it doesn't surprise me that the mother went after him. That's what a mother would do.

I'm a little surprised, I guess, that so many other people joined in. But it was 1980. I don't know if that happens today in the world that we live in. I don't know if it does or not. I don't either. I mean, part of me thinks everyone is so glued to their smartphones that they probably wouldn't even notice what was going on or wouldn't pay any attention to this woman's cries for help.

No, I think you're probably right. I'm not even saying in Ecuador. I'm just saying here in the United States, wherever. And maybe I'm just basing that on my two girls and their smartphone usage. Yeah. But I don't know that I'm that far off. I think you're probably right. I think people's attention span outside of whatever they're currently doing is fairly limited.

I think it's different today. I really do. I mean, how many people have you seen walk into something because they're, too busy looking at their smartphone to realize that, hey, a poll's coming up or I don't know. Right. So the police have Lopez. For what? They're not exactly sure.

They don't have any hard evidence other than the fact that he tried to possibly tried to abduct a young girl. But they're starting to suspect that he may be involved with these massive numbers of disappearances around the area. But the problem is he's not quite. He's not giving the authorities anything. So they decide to get creative. And they took a detective with the last name of Gonzalez that I believe Gibbs was also a priest. I got a little confused in the research on that.

I wasn't sure why a detective would also be a priest. But maybe it's what he does on the side. I don't know. A lot of the articles talked about the fact that he was a priest. But either way, they put him undercover in the same cell. with Pedro Lopez. And it took some time, but this guy finally gained Lopez's trust. And I don't know.

You got to think about the Cajonais on this guy, detective slash priest. Right. To sign up for this mission. I'm not sure he signed up or if he was just told, hey, you got to do this. I'm also not sure if you're supposed to use the word Cajonese and priest in the same sentence. Yeah, I'm not sure. But I did. You did.

And I'm going with it. You're just rolling. This guy spent almost a month. inside a cell, what I assume was a pretty small cell with Pedro Lopez the monster. Now, they don't know he's the monster yet, but this guy's going to talk to papers later saying, you know, at a certain point, he does know because he gets Pedro to tell him everything. And this guy said he barely slept almost the entire month that he was in there because he was so afraid that Pedro Lopez was going to strangle him in the middle of the night. But it really is

amazing what this guy was able to do. You know, so he gained his trust, partly by telling Pedro some made up stories to make him think that, you know, he was also a sadistic monster, then started getting Lopez to come out with the details of his crimes. Essentially, he got this guy to confess to a bunch of murders and also talk about the sites where he buried his victims. So the bottom line is without this guy, they probably never get Lopez for the murders, unless he was just going to confess on his own because it's really all the information that this guy was able to feed to them. You know, they confront Pedro Lopez with it and he caves pretty quickly, but I don't know

if he would have done that, right? if they didn't already know. And he even starts confessing to more murders. In all, he would confess to about 110 murders. He didn't just confess. He actually led police to almost 100 different burial slash dump sites. Now, they wouldn't find bodies at all these sites, but they found 53. So regardless of what the number of victims is for Pedro Lopez,

he is a prolific serial killer, even if you stopped at 53. But there's no way that that's where it ends. And you think, Gibbs, police had to have been shocked, right? They probably thought this guy was full of shit. Oh, I imagine so. Probably thought, like many killers do, he was puffing up his chest and pumping up his numbers. Everything.

Telling stories. Yeah. Well, when you lead authorities to 53 bodies, I think they pretty much know you're telling the truth. Yeah, I think so. Hard to deny. Yeah, hard to deny when you're the only one that probably knows where these bodies are buried and you lead them right to them. But it's a very large number and was said that every victim was a young girl between the ages of nine and 12. So we're going to talk about it, but he had a very, very specific MO and he had a very specific victim type. We talk about a lot of killers that murder a high number of people and the ages are all

over the place. This is not the case with Pedro Lopez. And the other thing that you and I talk about a lot, Gibbs, and we have been recently, is about how bodies, especially if they're, you know, if they've not been completely buried, right? They'll be picked at, dragged off by animals. So they only found 53 bodies, but he took them to close to 100, you know, burial slash dump sites. The thought is there were bodies there. They just weren't there by the time he took the police there, right? They had been carried off. They probably weren't buried that deeply, an animal, a scavenger, whatever it was. Right. Like I said, Pedro Lopez ultimately told police that he had raped and murdered 110 girls in Ecuador alone, right? Because he's caught in Ecuador.

So he confesses to 110. Then he added that he had killed and raped probably 100 girls in Colombia. Wow, man. And many, many more than that in Peru. Just insane. It's mind boggling. Yeah. I mean, I've seen the final. number that he has confessed to as being 350. He's been quoted as saying, I like the girls in Ecuador. They are more gentle, trusting, innocent, much more trusting of strangers. Okay. That's a sick bastard statement right there. If I've ever heard of him. Disgusting. It is. This guy's a true monster. He's a predator. He's a monster. There's no doubt about it. And we talked about it up front. We weren't going to be able to talk about the details of all the murders individually.

And I don't think anybody would want to hear the details of that many murders back to back to back. I think that would be a horrible way to do an episode. It's really not necessary because Pedro Lopez would tell investigators that he only had one method. Yeah. He only had one M.O. He would stalk until he found a girl who,

he said looked innocent. Okay. And this is important. Scary too. It's scary, but there's a reason, at least in his mind, he wanted to victimize the most innocent looking girls he could find. Yeah. It's sick.

Once he found his victim, he said that he would sometimes stalk her for two or three days waiting for the perfect opportunity. He lured his victims by offering them gifts. And once he got them away from a crowded area, because it's, it's weird. You know, he, he abducted these girls from pretty crowded areas. Yeah. You're not going to have a nine-year-old out jogging by themselves, most likely. Right? A nine-year-old, 10-year-old girl is going to be with their mother, with their father, with their family. So he really was methodical and took his time in figuring out how to separate these young girls from whoever they were with.

Also taking a big chance. Oh, huge chance for sure. Doing that. But once he got them lure, you know, once he was able to lure them away, he abducted them, he would take them to an area where he had already prepared a grave ahead of time. So he went out, dug it, had it ready. I mean, it's probably, I hate to say this, but why he might have been successful in his methods for a while.

No, I don't think you're wrong at all. But the other thing we talked about, two or three victims a week, this was just a constant cycle. Yeah. Of digging graves, finding victims, unfortunately filling those graves. Right. And then finding another victim. Yeah, the cycle continues. If you're doing that two or three times a week, that's a lot of work.

It is a lot of work. He said that he raped his victims and then he would stare into their eyes as he strangled them. Yeah, sounds familiar. Yeah, who was it that? It was like a Tommy Lin-Len cells. Yeah, as he traveled across on the trains and find his victims, and you would get a kick out of watching the life leave their. I think we had other ones that said it.

We have. And it's very similar here because that's what Pedro Lopez has said as well. Yeah. He derives satisfaction from watching the life leave his victim's eyes. Yeah. And to that point, he said he only killed during daylight hours because he didn't want to kill anybody if he couldn't enjoy seeing their face and their eyes. Yeah.

That's what a sick bastard this guy is. Yeah, it is sick. But to me, Gibbs, as sick as it is, I feel like, and this is just me, I feel like this guy was fairly honest in what he told authorities, what he told to, you know, reporters and things like that. It also leads me to believe that, you know, it may not be 350, but I think it's very, very high. His number of victims. I think he might, he's being pretty honest about that as well. Yeah. Is what scares me.

But another thing that he told investigators is that he would hold what he called parties with his victims after he had killed them. He would prop them up in the graves that he had pre-dug and he would talk to them. And sometimes he'd have two, three, four victims at a time. Okay. In these graves, having what he called a party. So is he like smoking some good stuff or what, man? I don't know.

I don't know. Wow. His sanity is going to come into question later. Oh, I mean. And how could it not? Right, right. Exactly. Anybody that is willing to do this to young children.

But I just found that so strange that he's telling investigators, yeah, you know, I had parties where I would sit and talk to them. But he said he eventually, you know, he got bored with. And this is so bad to say. I mean, these are not my words, but he got bored with the victims. And that's when he would bury them and he would go back out on the hunt. And do it again. And do it all over again. You just want to crawl in this guy's mind and see what's going on. Or maybe you don't because maybe you never come out. No, yeah, I'd be real careful going into that world, man. Really careful.

But at the same time that he's confessing and he's talking to investigators of, about, you know, how he selected victims, his MO, all of these things. He's also telling them his reasons for raping and killing so many young girls. And it all goes back to what he experienced growing up. And he told investigators, quote, I lost my innocence at age eight. So I decided to do the same to as many young girls as I could. Again, we, you know, we talked about it early on. the frustration, the rage, the revenge.

This is what he's telling investigators this whole serial killing is about. And I guess Gibbs, I get it when somebody wants revenge. Sure. Somebody has done something wrong to you, hurt somebody in your family, hurt you. You want to get back at him. Exactly. These young girls didn't do anything to him. No, that wasn't their fault.

They had nothing to do with how he was raised. No, they were completely innocent. But in his mind, this is him making up, getting back. I don't know. Making up for what happened to him or just taking out his frustration saying, I had to go through this. And I'm going to make sure as many other people have to go through it as well. I want you to experience what I experienced. Sad.

When it was all said and done, between the bodies that the authorities were able to recover, and the confessions that Lopez made, they charged him with 110 murders. Now, keep in mind, this is just in Ecuador. And he pleaded guilty to all 110 murders in 1981 and was sentenced to a whopping 16 years. 16 years, Gibbs. Long time for if you, like, stole a car.

Yeah. But you've pleaded guilty to murdering 110 young girls. It should be life. So obviously a much lighter sentence than what you and I are used to and what we're used to here in the United States. But this was the law back then in 1980, 1981 in Ecuador. Yeah. They had a maximum on how long a sentence could be.

They would change it years later, but that was it at the time. The other thing is they had no death penalty. That wasn't an option. So Pedro Lopez, this unbelievably prolific serial killer, he's going to get out of prison and not just get out at all, get out much sooner than anyone would expect. Now, it was said that while he was in prison, families of the victims came up with a reward of $25,000. Really? They would pay $25,000 to the first person that would kill Pedro Lerner. Lopez in prison.

Okay. Unofficially. Un Officially. I mean, I don't think they were advertising that or, you know, anything like that. Right. But unofficially, there was a $25,000 reward for the person that would kill him in prison. It didn't happen. No.

Clearly. In an interview from his jail cell where, you know, Lopez spent his time, he spent most of his time locked up in solitary confinement. They knew this guy was a monster. They didn't even want him. I think for two reasons, probably because somebody was going to kill him to try to collect the 25,000. But they just didn't want him near any other inmates. He was in solitary confinement.

He was kept away from, you know, all the other prisoners. But he had a reporter that came in. He did an interview. And he told the reporter, I am the man of the century. No one will ever forget me. But then he also said, I will soon be a free man again. they're releasing me on good behavior. Crazy.

And if that's not enough, he said that he would be happy to kill again and that it was his mission to kill again. So he got released in 94, 1994. I don't even think he did the whole 16 years. I think they let him out after 14 for good behavior. I don't think you should get good behavior when you've confessed to killing 110 people. I think good behavior kind of goes out the wind. at that point. I think so too. And in 1994, they interviewed the prisons minister of Ecuador.

Okay. Because they were asking him, you know, how can you let this guy go? Everybody was up in arms about it. Sure. How do you justify this? And he said, quote, yes, it does sound strange, but that is our law. I mean, obviously, there's nothing he could do about it. There's nothing the judge could do about it. I mean, if it's law, it's a law. But that's where you say, all right, councilmen or whatever they have down there, let's get together. and kind of put something better in the books. Let's have some kind of out where we say, this person here shouldn't ever come out. I agree. I agree. But even if they did that in United States and changed the law, would it be retroactive? Not, not usually. No, no, no, no. But, no, but yeah, that's the problem with it. I don't know. But you're right. I mean, I think

anybody listening will say, you know, even in countries that are more lenient than the United States, United States is very tough on crime. Yeah. On some crimes, way tougher than I think we should be, but to spend 14 years in jail or prison for killing 110 people, that don't seem right. No. And maybe this is where vigilante justice comes into play. Did you say vigilante? I'd say vigilante.

Vigilante. Vigilante. Vigilante. Depends on what. I used to drive in 1967 vigilante. You probably did. I didn't because it's not a real word. Nobody says it like that.

You don't know that. Right now, somebody's saying, that's the way I said it. I know. I will. I say it just like Gibby says it. It never fails. I will get an email from somebody that says, oh, my brother-in-law says it that way. Yeah, they say, just like Gibby says.

And I, and he's a professor. And I give the same reply. Well, that don't make it right. That's true. And that's not going to keep me from giving Gibby a hard time. Yeah. All right. So that's that portion of the story.

And normally that would be really pretty much the end. end of the story, right? A serial killer of this magnitude pleads guilty. They either spend the rest of their life in prison or they lose their life. At some point in time, years down the road. This guy gets out after 14 years, but then you have the next twist in the story. So for the entire time that Pedro Lopez was in prison in Ecuador, he had this thing hanging over his head of, okay, I might get out. But if I do, they're just going to give me to either Peru or Colombia to be tried in those countries. Yeah. Because he had confessed to over a hundred murders in each one of those countries.

And probably he was most worried about Colombia. You know, the country where he was born, if they got their hands on him and he was convicted, he would have faced the firing squad. That's how they put people to death. Right. And I don't think it would be 16, 20 years down the road. I don't, I don't think Columbia had or probably even has the same type of lengthy appeal process that we do here in the United States. No, I believe that.

You know, their country is still today. Man, if you're found guilty and it's a capital offense, that execution is carried out immediately. Rather quickly, if not immediately. Yeah. Come out here, grab some of stone, start throwing them or... You get one cigarette. One cigarette. Don't you always get a cigarette?

cigarette before they pull the black hood over your face when you're when you're facing the firing squad and what is it with the firing squad is it not everybody has a bullet so they don't know so they right don't feel guilty about isn't that how it works i think so some people have blanks so you got to have a something or else you don't want to make sure it's like i'd be like i'd want really good if i was on the other end of it i don't want to make sure that they were really good at their job well i think i think they use good shooters i think they have enough shooters but i always thought I don't want the guy with the shaky, shaky arms that, you know, he's like getting ready to shoot and he keeps missing. He just, right, reload.

He just wings you a bunch of times. But I always thought that there was at least one, if not multiple people that had blanks. So you need, nobody would truly know that they fired. They took someone's life. Yeah. I could be wrong about that. They all shoulder to blame together. Or not blame.

Some people would say blame. Some people say that they should. They didn't do anything. They shoulder the. They don't know whether they did or not. the right thing to do at that time. But he was released, right? I talked about it in 1994.

But as soon as he was released, he was arrested again in Ecuador for being in the country illegally. That's it? Yeah. So they let him out of prison and then they arrested him right away and said, you know what? You're not supposed to be here. Yeah. Because they wanted him to get the hell out of Ecuador.

We don't want you here. We know what you're going to do. And that move essentially allowed them to deport him to Colombia. Columbia said thanks, which is the one thing that he probably didn't want. But this is for me where the story gets very, very strange. He didn't stand trial for 100 plus murders in Columbia. But they did put him on trial. Okay.

For some murder that was 20 years old. One that they felt they had the best case against him. Yeah. It was a single murder that happened in the early 70s. He was convicted. Okay. But he was deemed to be mentally ill and sent off to a mental health facility. All right.

For about four years. So from 94 to 98. Okay. Did some easy time. But I mean, look, easier than prison. Prison. I mean, yeah, sure. Then in 1998, all of a sudden, he was declared totally fine.

Okay. And he was released. He paid $50. Oh. Bail. Okay. which is a whopping some. And there were some certain conditions, right?

Yeah. Don't leave. Don't do this. Can't do this, whatever. But they just let him go. Let him walk out the door. Shockingly, he's not going to adhere to any of the conditions, right? Set down by the courts.

Of course not. This is a man that has most likely murdered 350 people. Right. I don't think he cares about the you need to check in once a week or. don't go past this geographical. Don't hang out by this school. Don't do this. Don't talk to kids.

Yeah, I don't think that's high on his list of things to be worried about. All he heard was pay 50 bucks you get out and that he didn't hear anything else. And no, because he got to hell out. He took off. He's not checking in with whoever he's supposed to check in with. They never hear from him again. But that's where the conspiracy theories, that's where the rabbit holes. come from. Right. There's stories out there that have the Colombian government murdering Pedro

Lopez in secret after they let him out. Could happen. And that's why nobody's ever heard from him. Could happen in that time frame. That could have happened. Sure. There are stories that they have him locked away in some type of secret prison. I don't think they do that. I think they would do the first option. I think they would just go ahead. Much cheaper. Yeah, I think they just would execute them. Much cheaper to do the first option. Yeah. So secret prison, they're keeping it quiet. Nobody knows about it.

Right. But I think the scariest one of all, or the scariest thing to think about for me is that this guy really did go free. Could have. And he went somewhere. Probably back to Peru. I'm assuming he didn't stay in Columbia. I don't think he'd hang out there, but he could probably Peru. And he began living out a new life, a new secret life.

And if he did, if he truly did go free, there's no doubt in my mind that he would have continued to murder. You don't murder two or three people a week for years and years. No, that's. And all of a sudden say, you know what? I'm free again, but I'm going to work at the shop and save. No, it just doesn't happen unless you get some type of help to, you know what I mean? So that's the thing.

I didn't say this, but I remember seeing an article from the authorities in Ecuador. They had to let him out, right? Because that was the law. But they also went out of their way to say, this guy's not rehabilitated. Right. He's very, very dangerous still. I mean, he was an addict, a murder addict, you know? I mean, it's just, you know, you can be an alcoholic.

You can be a drug addict, whatever, right? You're never going to get better unless you go somewhere. figure out what your triggers are, get the help you need, and continue to get continuous help for the rest of your life. Otherwise, you can easily slip back into whatever your triggers are and start the process again. So for you, it's those little Debbie oatmeal cream pies. You know, those are good.

Enough. And they are good. I don't buy it. I don't know why I just popped into my head. But if someone laid them down here, I could probably crush the whole box. See, that's why I don't, that's why I don't buy certain things. Yeah. There are certain things that I really like, but I can't moderate myself.

Most things I can. I have no issues with moderation. But there's some things that if they're there and I know they're in there, I can't stop. Yeah, and I like that. I mean, I don't know if I, today right now. I mean, I haven't had much appetite this last week, but I'd love to do it because I need to put some weight back on, man. I'll buy you some oatmeal cream pies. They're not that expensive.

No. What are they? Like a buck 19 for a box? or a whole box or something. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know how much they are. Yeah. Good stuff. But I think you're right. I think, you know, he was addicted to murder, but more so to, I think, the sadistic... The process.

Satisfaction that he got from watching someone die. He had a specific process. He followed again and again because it got him off somehow in his head. It made him feel what he needed to feel. And that's why I don't think unless he got some good help and consistent help. You're right. He's done that again. If he's out there, he's done it again. So to that point, how strange is it that we're not 100% sure where in the hell this guy is?

Yeah. And maybe he met his own fate, finally. His own demise? His own demise, etc. I will say there were a lot of family members of the victims. Yeah. That after he was released, obviously they were they were just totally floored that this guy would go free right after killing so many

people but a lot of them said there's no way he'll make it somebody is going to take care of him i would have if that was my kid when you've got three let's say you really there are 350 families that would like to take a shot at you that ups the chances considerably that you're going to meet an untimely demise. I would have done everything to find him and take care of him. I know you would. So I would have found him. I mean, we know he got out, but if he is still free today, he would be 70 years old.

Yeah. I don't know that I would trust him today. He could still be murdering. Of course. Yeah. Even at 70, I think this guy would be a scary individual. Sure. I mentioned up, you know, earlier in the episode that he was kind of physically imposing.

Yeah. He was said to be like very, he wasn't a huge guy. Okay. But apparently he was very strong. Okay. And this came from that reporter that I talked about that went to go interview him in jail. Right. And apparently right before the interview was going to take place, they shook hands.

And the reporter said that he felt like this guy was going to literally crush his hand. Yeah. That his, his hands were so powerful. It's like shaking the hand of a mechanic, man. Yeah. And what went through this reporter's mind was, oh, my gosh, this is what happened to these innocent young girls. Squeezing their neck.

This guy squeezed the life out of them with these powerful hands. So in total, Lopez, and this is an unbelievable fact, Gibbs, spent less than a month, incarcerated for each of the young girls that he could admit to murder. less than a month for each girl. Wow. I mean, think of it being a family member and viewing it and thinking about it in those terms. No, it'd be a nightmare. That's how you valued my kids life.

Right. As a government, that's what you're saying my child's life was worth. A month of this man's time. Yeah, that's it. That's horrible when you think about it like that. It's, you know, to take justice away from these victims. loved ones. And I know it's different. I mentioned that. I know it's different in Ecuador today, but I still think they cap it at like 25 years. I don't know how you, you should have some type of

option. It's got to be some leeway. Option if a person does X. Is the worst of the worst. Yeah. I mean, I think you have, you have to tier it somehow. Yeah. Tier one, tier two, tier three criminal. And then this is how you determine what their max is. That'd be tough to be a judge having to hear all the details. Yeah. From somebody that's killed in horrible ways. Yeah. And then at the end of it.

Pigeon held. Did you say pigeon ho? Pigeon held. Pigeon held. Yeah. Is that like pigeon holed? Pigeon hold. First of all, I thought you said pigeon ho.

No. There's no ho pigeon out there. And then you said pigeon held? Pige held. It's pigeonholed. Well, my world, it's pigeonholed. But at the end of a trial, knowing in your mind that this man's guilty, the jury has said he's guilty too. Right.

But knowing that the only thing you can do is send this guy away for 16 years. Yeah. And that he's probably going to get out earlier than that anyway. That would be tough for me to be a judge, knowing that that's all I could do. Because that's what the law says. It's where you want Death Wish to come into play. Death Wish 3,000. Yeah.

Well, when you're pigeon held, that's, what can you do, man? That's tough. It is tough, man. To be pigeon held. It is. It's worse than being pigeonholed. I guess so. But that's it.

That is the story of Pedro Lopez. Yeah. And I didn't know much about this guy. And, you know, to find out that he's suspected of killing 350 people. And say an amount of numbers. It's, it doesn't even seem like it's possible. I know it is. Yeah.

And the numbers bear it out. You know, if you do the math, selecting a couple of victims a week, you can get there pretty within a number of years. Yeah, a few years. Yeah. Very sad. All right, Gibbs. We've got some voicemails.

You want to check those out? Let's hear some voicemails. Hey, Mike. Hey, Gibby. My name's Grace. I'm calling from the UK. I just recently discovered your podcast and I've completely fallen in love with it. You're both so articulate and completely hilarious together.

But at the same time, you treat all the cases with such respect that it still honors all the people involved and all the victims. And I think that's something you should be really proud of. So yeah, keep going. And all the best. Thanks, guys. Bye. Wow, we love to hear that. We really appreciate that.

I do appreciate that because she's articulate. She said you were articulate? Absolutely. And I appreciate it. that and charming yet funny as well. Wait, wait till she finds out that your pigeon held. Well, she'll think that's very articulate. You can't even say articulate.

She had a very, very cool accent. Yes, she did. It was very understated. Yeah. But I like the way that it sounded. She must be on the west side. On the west side. Hey, Uncle Mike.

Hey Uncle Gibby. This is Ashley. I just took a break from your podcast to call you because that's what naces do. You can sign me on my 40 right now. I'm in Memphis going back to Nashville after Thanksgiving. And I have not ever left y'all a voicemail, but I think I might have to start on a weekly basis

because you all are just so much fun. But anyway, I love your podcast. I'm a true crime junkie. But this kind of all started in 2012 when my roommate got attacked and kidnapped. She is okay now and he is in prison for 192 years. May he rest in peace. That's kind of where I got my fascination

with bad people because it's just so foreign to me because I am an angel. I mean, I don't murder people. But anyway, y'all are awesome. I just had to tell you. I am for both of things because I hate making choices and I love both of you

And I think your accent are fabulous. Uncle Gibby, you just keep doing what you're doing. Uncle Max, you're just on it. You're just on top of it all the time. You keep doing what you're doing. And, yeah, y'all have a great time. And keep your own time of kicking. Bye.

Well, we both didn't know we had a niece. Yeah, that we were related. And somehow related. Yeah, so that's, yeah. Great voicemail from Ashley. But a couple takeaways. Number one, she seems very, very happy.

Yeah. She's like bubbly. I like that. Yeah. Happy, happy. And number two, so you think about what she said, right? Roommate gets kidnapped, assaulted. The attacker gets 192 years.

Yeah. And what did this guy? We just do a story on? This guy killed 350 people. There you go. And did a total of about 18 years in prison. I arrest my case. as a retired defense attorney

slash many things slash you're retired slash used to be a lot of things I have done a lot of things in my life you have you have you know well you're I don't tell everybody three days older than dirt too so you've had a lot of time to get into some stuff

good dirt though man good dirt that soil is rich hello my name is Sylvester Price I'm a soldier out of Fort Hood Texas I'm a long time listener, first time caller.

I was just listening to the Byron Davis case and I don't know I feel weird about that one. Since he was a Vietnam veteran it kind of looked like they glossed over his wartime history a lot of times especially like soldiers like myself. You get PTSD and other mental ailments

that get overlooked. My dad and all my uncles were at Vietnam and they all have certain Texan issues and it seems like he definitely need to be diagnosed or looked at in that realm. Also, just FYI, since he was an airman or in the Air Force, their airmen, soldiers are U.S. Army, Marines are Marines, and Navy is seamen. Just like normally when you guys say anyone in the DOD, you call him soldiers and that's not so much. All right. Well, we got school there Gibbs. Yeah, we do. So Fester let us know.

That's always good. Which is good, though, and I appreciate that. And I appreciate his service to our country as well. Yeah, we definitely do. And I don't think there's probably any doubt that Byron might have had some PTSD issues or something like that. And I wonder, you know, I didn't dive into the deeply into the trial as you did, you know, but I don't know, maybe as a defense attorney, you know, attempted to bring that in at one point. Yeah, I will say this is a, this case, that case that we did. probably generated more back and forth on social media with people taking opposing views

than any other case we've ever done. I truly believe that. Interesting to watch the social media debates go back and forth and why people, you know, believe this way or that way. I mean, I don't care what, believe whatever you want. Right. I just, I find it interesting to watch it. People state their case and as long as it's respectful.

Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Hey guys, this is Jonathan from South Carolina. Big fan of your podcast. I love it. I listen to it every day, every night, every chance I get. I'll be around people with my headphones in and they're like, you know, I'll hit a little giggle because of something you are... Gibby says referring to yourself personally, not, obviously not the subject at hand because it's not a laughing matter.

but the relationship you guys share on the podcast is humorous at times. You guys are doing a great job. I was wanting to know what you guys' opinions were on the whole murderabilia aspect of the true crime world. Just wondering if maybe you could give the shout out and, you know, maybe just give me a slight opinion of yours on it, you know, what you think about it. have a good day and God bless. All right. So he wants our opinion, Gibbs, on murderabilia. I don't own any.

And I know for a fact, you don't own any. No, I don't. I don't look down on people that do. I know there's always going to be a fascination. Sure. Right? People like to visit certain sites, right? They like to, I mean, physically travel and see where some of these brutal massacres,

things like that happen. But I think he's talking. more about, you know, owning something from somebody. Yeah. Like some, like a letter that John Wayne Gacy actually wrote or a piece of artwork or, you know, like that for me, that doesn't interest me at all. No, but I know people do do. Yeah.

There are a lot of people that I think are into it. And there are, there are some sites. And I've seen people, I mean, not in the same realm, but I've seen people get, you know, tattoos of famous serial killers on their body, you know, So, I mean, everybody's got something. Yeah, I think first and foremost, you and I are very respectful of what, again, like I just said, whatever people want to do, as long as they do it in the right way, and they're not hurting anybody else. Yeah, do what you want. But if you're asking my opinion, it's just not something that interests me.

Right. Now, I might like to see it or might like to look at it. I would never pay money or to own it, I guess, is the thing. Yeah, I think you would be, I think you probably would depend on who the killer was. You would probably, you would want to see something. You wouldn't want to like buy it and keep it. No, I'd definitely go to a museum and see pieces under glass of things like that. I do collect a lot of different things.

You mean, you collect those bobblehead looking things over there, whatever they're called. And you have a full closet of different furry costumes. But I think when he says murderabilia, I think he's talking about not just related to a serial killer, but actually touched or owned or. produced made by a serial killer. It's a lot of the murdererabilia that I see. It was like John Wacy's. John Wacy's. Gacy's.

It would be like, you know, Casey's van or something. Somebody might want to own it. I don't know if it's that big, but a lot of time to see artwork or a letter that, let's say John Gacy wrote while he was, you know, as a businessman. Yeah. And somebody wants to sell that. Yeah, they frame it up. Yeah.

Hang it into the bar. Hey, Mike. Hey, Gibby. This is Amber calling. from Wisconsin. Yes, I did just say Wisconsin. Give you there's another accent for you to practice. Guys, I got to tell you, I was going to wait until I got caught up, binging on the podcast. I'm about 26 episodes behind still.

And I was prompted tonight after listening to episode 80 to call you guys tonight. I was going to try and see neutral in this whole Team Ferguson team givey thing. But I got to tell you, after listening to episode 80, Mike said something that I think might have me going team. Ferguson. Sorry, Gibby. Gizzy Pete. I'm not sure I've ever heard GZ Pete before. I'm not sure if maybe that's an Ohio thing. I've never heard it in Wisconsin, that's for sure.

But it definitely sounds like something maybe my grandma would have said. So if I had to pick a team, I'm going to have to go at Team Ferguson. Anyways, being from Wisconsin, I'm looking forward to hopefully hearing some more podcast about some killers from Wisconsin. Lord knows we are right up there with Ohio with some really notorious and all awful murderers and serial killers. Thanks for everything you guys do. The podcast is amazing and I can't wait to get caught up.

Keep your own time ticking, guys. Thanks. All right. Well, Gizi Pete. That's a great voicemail. You'll be back. You're only at episode 80. You've got a long way to go.

Let me have a couple. You'll be coming back to the good side. So, you know, she said, okay, Wisconsin's got a lot of serial killers. We always talk about Ohio having a lot. Yeah, we do. I looked it up to the other day. We're not even in the top, whatever. Yeah.

It just, I think because we have a lot of well-known. Maybe. I don't know. I was surprised how far down the list we are. Yeah. In the number. Now, obviously, we can't compete with a New York, California. Texas.

Texas, just because of population alone. Right. We're not even up there in size, like based on the size of our state, which I was. Ohio is a great place. I was really shocked. All right. We've got mail bag. Oh, we got some mail.

Yep. our friend Lottie from Denmark. Hey Lottie. Sent us our first Christmas package of the year. Aw. And she sent us some Danish candy. Ooh. Snowballs and snow almonds.

Really? Although I had no idea what they were because they were not in English. So she had in the letter she had to translate. Okay. To let me know which one was which. So, and she sent you some very special Danish cough drops. I see them here.

They're called no cough cough drops. They look a little funky. they do i haven't uh but that probably means they work yeah i just it looks like some of the candy like if you ever watch terry potter did you ever watch harry potter yeah they have those like those uh what's that professor dumberdorf dumbledore dumberdor dumberdor anyway he eats these little black things uh like candy but they're actually like a little bugs or something and they fly around he catches them and pops them in his mouth that's what these little things look like have you watched, you asked me if I've watched Harry. Are you sure you've watched Harry Potter? Okay. Yeah. My kids loved

them. I don't know where you get double Dorff or whatever you call it. Double door, double door. Double door. Doer do whatever, you know. Oh, you crack me up. All right, everyone. That is it for another episode of True Crime All the Time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.