True Crime All The Time - Peter Dupas

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

Peter Dupas was born into what many would call a normal family in Australia. There were no documented signs of abuse or trauma. But, for some reason, Peter developed a hatred for women and he began committing crimes at an early age. His crimes escalated over the years from sexual violence to murder.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Peter Dupas, an infamous Australian serial killer. No one knows exactly how high Peter's victim count really is. But, it is undoubtedly much higher than the three murders he was convicted of that landed him three life sentences. He has been connected to many other crimes and murders. What caused Peter Dupas to hate women and then later turn his violent fantasies into a reality?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 245 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime Mike Gibson. Gippey, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing great. I just made you dinner. You did. You should feel special because I don't cook all that often. That is true. But I whipped us up a little something, something. Yeah. And it wasn't bad. It was good. Not to pat myself on the back, but it wasn't too bad. You got that boil in that water down just right. Yeah, you and I usually order out because we're busy and we're running late. I had a little bit of extra time and I thought, you know what? I'm getting tired of eating out.

So I'll just, uh, I'll make something. Let's go ahead and do our new supporter shoutouts. For Patreon, we had Emily Rice. Hey, Emily. Ricardo Lagare. What's going on, Ricardo? Jennifer Cook. Hey, Jennifer. Victoria Myers. Thank you, Victoria. Alan Roberts. What's going on, Alan? Tiffany Dreyer. Hey, Dreyer. Virginia from Perth. Well, now we know where you're from, Virginia. Exactly. Mackenzie Ringwood.

Hey, McKenzie. Dustin Kirkham. What's happening in Kirkham? Patrick Anoni. Oh, Anoni. Lauren Tapley. What's going on, Tapley? David Allen Baggett.

Hey, Bagget. Adam. Adam. They appreciate that, Adam. Kara Guitar. What's going on, Guitar? Holly Jones. Hey, Ollie.

Tracy Montgomery. Hey, Tracy. And last but not least, Paige Morales. There you are, Paige. And then if we go back into the Vault Gibbs, This week we selected Karen Rosenstein. Well, appreciate that, Karen. Yeah, when it comes to Patreon, we definitely appreciate the new supporters, but also those people that have been with us for a very long time.

We had some great PayPal support as well. Amanda wanted to wish a happy birthday to Mike Zarath. Well, happy birthday, Mike. Exactly. We also had Melanie Owensby. Hey, Melanie. Judy Larson. What's going on, Judy?

Dana Mackie. Hey, Mackey in the house. And Megan Ross. I appreciate that, Megan. So thanks to all of you as well. So Gibbs, we have an episode out right now on true crime all the time unsolved. We're talking about the mysterious Mr. Cruel.

We're headed to Australia. Actually, both of our cases this week, we're headed to Australia. And that's pretty rare. It is rare. TCAT and TCAT unsolved. And both of these cases are fairly well known. You know, this Mr. Cruel case, you're talking late 80s, early 90s. You've got a child abductor and rapist who was very scary, you know, snatched kids right out of

their homes, sometimes with their parents in the house. Yeah, he didn't care. No, it's very scary stuff. But it's a good episode. Definitely make sure you check that out. All right, Gibbs, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? Man, I'm ready. Again, we're headed to Australia to talk about serial rapist and killer Peter DePas.

He's currently serving a life sentence for the murders of three women. But I'll tell you right now, to me, there's no doubt. His victim count is definitely much, much higher. Yeah. And we'll get into why we think that and all that. Peter was born into, you know, a normal family. He had a pretty normal childhood. But for whatever reason, he developed an inexplicable hatred for women.

This hatred caused his crimes to escalate from sexual violence to murder. And I think Peter's case, you know, like a lot of the cases that we do, but, you know, maybe especially this one, kind of brings up that question, you know, why or how do some people become or develop into serial? killers. You know, with Peter, you kind of have this added element of, you know, what was the motivation? What motivates somebody with seemingly no history of abuse or trauma to kill others? We've had a few like this where, you know, they had what we would all consider to be fairly normal childhoods. Now, we've had a lot where the killer's childhood was something you would and wish on your worst nightmare. We've had a lot of those. Yeah, we certainly have our fair share of those.

Yeah. And I think, you know, professionals would look at that and say, okay, here's a bunch of signs or a bunch of things that may have triggered this person or set them down the path of becoming a killer. Yeah, we're not going to see that here with Peter DePas. The psychologists and detectives who studied him agree that, you know, obviously something. has taken over his rational mind to make him incapable of controlling his violent urges, as I believe happens with a lot of killers. Now, the one thing I always wonder about is Gibbs, how many people have violent urges? I think the number is probably a lot higher than we'd like to think.

Oh, for sure. But how many people are able to control them? it doesn't get, you know, the better of them. They never kill anyone. They never, let's say, violently, sexually assault anyone or, or anything like that. Maybe they have the thought, but they just don't act on. Yes. And I just, I wonder how many people or what type of percentages exist of people that have it

and then people that control it versus people that don't. Yeah. It's, it would probably be really scary. to us if we knew for sure. Needed something like that Tom Cruise movie. Minority report? I knew you were thinking about that one. Yeah, there's no way to know, right?

You're not going to put out a questionnaire that has a question on it of do you have these type of violent urges? Yes or no. No, people are not going to answer that question. Never. Peter Norris de Pass was born in Sydney, Australia. On July 6th, 1953, his family moved to Melbourne. when he was a baby.

And like I said, he grew up in a perfectly average middle class Australian family. Peter was the youngest of three children. Now, his siblings were much older than him. So I think, you know, by his parents, he was babyed and almost treated like an only child because his siblings were so much older. Yeah. Well, you know how that goes. Well, I know what it's like to be treated as an only child because I was one.

I don't know. Was I babyed? Maybe. Was I spoiled? Maybe. I think that's a yes and yes. I definitely know Peter was spoiled as a child. He later told a psychiatrist that his mother was overprotective and his father was a perfectionist. And the overprotectiveness, right? You do sometimes see that with only children. Sure. Is that how you say that? With an only child. Right. Let me say that. You also, I think, see it with the baby of the family sometimes. You know, let's say you've got two or three children. Okay. The first two are getting older. Let's say they're getting ready to head out on their own. You have the one left. Right. And, you know, a lot of parents, that's tough to think that, okay, this one's going to leave two and then what? We're by herself.

Yeah. So, you know, does something. kick in where you're a little more overprotective. You baby them a little more. I don't know. I don't, I think with us, we have two. And I think if anything, we've let the second one get away with a heck of a lot more than we let the first one get away with. Oh, I'd have to agree. Yeah. But yours. We don't have to say it like that. But I would say most people do baby their last. The baby. Yeah, the baby. Yeah. I think that's that's somewhat natural. People like me. that are the middle kid you nobody cares about you i know you said it's so quick too yeah you're right oh you've told you've told me that yeah many many times no just you know and you know you're getting

beat up by the older brother and then the younger brother's getting all the attention it's tough yeah it's tough on the on the middle trial yeah raise the lights that's raise up lights raise the Razor blades. Raise the lights. Raise up lights. It's supposed to be razor blades. This is going, you just brought something up that's going back to our Patreon. I know. Out of the blue. Out of the blue. Nobody's going to know what you're talking. No. Now, the one thing in the research that came up, though, was that Peter felt as though his parents made him feel inadequate. So I think they had very high expectations for him, which I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but

can it lead to sometimes a child feeling as though they can't measure up no matter what they do sure that happens that's just a tough way to go i think you know to have you know a father that's a perfectionist and then have these high standards it almost makes it impossible to reach well it can right but you and i have talked about parenting is such a fine line you know do you want to push your kids to be all they can be i think you do sure but do you want to to put them in a situation where they feel like a total failure, like they can never measure up. Well, no, absolutely not. But so you have to figure out that balance.

You got to strike that balance. And it's not the easiest thing in the world to do. You got to know when to push, when to pull back. It's a little bit of a dance. None of Peter's immediate family had a criminal record. And I couldn't find any evidence that Peter was ever abused at, at home. in high school, the other kids nicknamed him Pugsley after the character from the Adams family TV show. Oh, that's a good thing.

I don't think it was. I think what they were doing was bullying him, making fun of him for being overweight. Was he wearing huskies? I don't know, but he was definitely getting bullied. Sure was, yeah. I myself was not Slim Jim the Rain Drop. Dodger when I was little. So I caught a little bit of that.

Yeah. And it's not fun. It's not easy to, you know, deal with day in and day out. As I got older, I started playing sports and all that and I slimmed down. Now I've kind of regressed and I'm going the other way. But some of that's just old age and some of that is I don't like to exercise. You just don't. I don't.

Yeah. The Harold's son reported that a psychiatrist described teenage Peter as a loner, said he was caught in an emotional conflict between the need to conform to the expectations of his parents and the unconscious urges to express his aggression and his developing masculinity. Interesting. It's a mouthful. There's a lot going on there. There is.

I think the most important part here is that as a young teenager, Peter started committing violent crimes. You know, this is very early on in life. He had already developed a strange obsession with stabbing women. This is not good. It's not good. I mean, we're talking about him committing his first crime at the age of 15th.

It was on October 3rd, 1968 that Peter stabbed his next door neighbor with no provocation. That's another big issue, right? It's out of the blue. Yeah, I don't think you should be stabbing people. anyway, but whether you're provoked or not. Now, if you're defending your life, that's something different. Oh, sure. But if somebody says something to you, you don't like, you shouldn't just poke them, stab them. Yeah, walk away, man. Yeah, walk away. So he visited his neighbor and he asked to borrow a knife to peel vegetables. I'm just thinking how I would react if my neighbor came over and asked for a knife.

I think my first question is, are you telling me you don't have a knife at all inside your home that you could use to peel vegetables? It'd be a good conversation to watch from the sidelines. Well, basically any conversation between myself and my neighbors is a good conversation to watch. Absolutely. Yeah. Especially when they, when they start to get out of pocket. But once Peter got the knife, he stabbed his next door neighbor in the face, neck, and hand.

And he was arrested quickly. And when he was, he told the police that he just couldn't help himself. And he didn't know what happened. He was put on 18 months probation and admitted to the Lirondal Psychiatric Hospital for evaluation. He was there for about two weeks and was treated as an outpatient guest. I don't know if guest is the right word, but, you know, when you're an outpatient, And outpatient to me means you're coming in gold. Yeah. So, you know, 18 months probation. You're treated for about two weeks.

Psychologists were never able to diagnose Peter with any specific psychiatric disorder. They only said that he had some sort of, quote, personality problems. I think his neighbor could have told them that. Yeah. Yeah. And again, we are talking about the 60s. So mental health in the 60s. He's a little bit different than it is in 2021.

We know a lot more. Oh, yeah. That's for certain. There's no doubt. But could you imagine being stabbed in your neck, your face by your neighbor? With your own knife that you just gave him. And then to find out that they did even lock him up.

Well, he was only 15 years old. Yeah. So, I mean, what can you really do to a 15 year old? No, man. But still, do you have to walk out every day and know that he's.

Yeah, because he's going back home. Yeah. He's going to live right next to you. Yeah, he's there. So I think for the victim, that's a very fearful situation. So I get you there. I get what you're saying. The next year in October, 1969, Peter broke into a morgue and he stabbed the bodies of two elderly women.

Now, this incident wasn't discovered and wouldn't be until later on when he was an adult. But let's analyze this for a minute. This is a guy who, or kid, I should say a kid, he's probably 16 years old at this point. This is a kid who's having very violent fantasies. They're already past the point of fantasies. They're, you know, he's taking them into reality. This time, though, he chooses to carry those fantasies out against people that are already dead. Yeah.

Is it better? I guess you would say it's better than. stabbing a person that's alive. Yeah, it's slightly better, right? It's not great, though. I mean, these people had families. Who wants to see their, let's say their grandmother violated post-mortem? Nobody. But I think what it really does is it shows you how depraved that he already was, right? By 15, 16, we're into some dark territory. Peter left high school before his senior year. And, And he went to work as an apprentice fitter and Turner. And apparently I had to look this up, Gibbs.

It's a person who works on like the fabrication, alignment of parts for products. I used to do that. Did you? I did. When I first went out of high school, when I was going to. When they first threw you out, you said when you first went out. Yeah. Went out involuntarily.

That's right. As in two men pushed you out the front doors of the high school and said, Don't come back. Don't come back here. Yeah. I said, okay. I guess I'll go do this. In 1972, Peter was 19 years old.

And he was caught peeping into a woman's window. And that's something that you see a lot, right? In the backgrounds of usually men, when they're younger, even when they get older, but the peeping tom thing. Sure. We see that in a lot of killers. You know, because what are they doing? They're trying to live out fantasies.

that one happens to not be a violent one it's still a violation though right of whoever's inside that house you're violating somebody oh for sure because that's a scary thing nobody wants to look out and see somebody peering at them through the window it's a safety issue and the problem with these peeping tombs is eventually they're going to want more yeah i mean i think that's we've seen that time and time again. Now, he's already stabbed people. Sure. A lot of times we see it as the peeping Tom is kind of the start. Right. Thinking that they can control it. Yeah. And maybe he had been doing it since he was younger. He just got caught right at the age of 19. We don't really know how long he had been doing it. That same year, he was charged with rape. The victim was a woman. He approached outside her home.

he told her that his car had broken down and he needed a screwdriver. He followed her inside her home and attempted to rape her. And when this woman resisted, he threatened to kill her baby. And then he raped her at knife point. So not only a vicious sexual assault, but it's also extreme violence. Right. I mean, would he have done that? I mean, he put the threat out there.

Oh, you mean as in would he have killed the baby? We don't know. Would he have, you know, cut her, slit her throat if she put up too much of a fight. Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. That same day, Peter attempted to rape another woman. This is twice in one day. And basically he did the same thing, right? He went to this woman's house, used the same story. This woman could tell something was up. She was very suspicious. And she told Peter that her husband was coming home soon. This scared him. off and he left. But the woman wrote down his license plate number and she called the police. And it was this act that allowed a detective to solve the rape and put Peter in jail. Smart thinking there. Yeah, very smart thinking. Whether your husband is coming home or not, let's say he wasn't, had no plans of coming home soon. It's a very good tactic to use. I think it's also something that we're going to see. So Peter was a very,

vicious guy and probably still is, you know, but a lot of people and especially victims, family members, we'll probably talk about it later on in the episode. They've called him a coward. They've called him a wimp because, you know, the victims he prayed upon were extremely vulnerable. And I think this shows you that the mere mention of a male coming home scared him. He was gone. Enough to rattle his cage. Yes. Senior detective Ian Armstrong interviewed Peter on November 30th, 1972. In this guy's report, he said he stood out. To me, the guy was just pure evil. His attacks were all carefully planned and he showed no remorse. We could see where he was going. I remember thinking, this guy could go all the way. He is an unmitigated liar. He's very dangerous young

person who will continue to offend where females are concerned and will possibly cause the death of one of his victims if he is not straightened out. So, you know, you have this detective writing up this report. He could not have been more on the nose with his assessment of Peter DuPas. Because all of these things are going to come to fruition. All right, Gibbs, let's take a quick break. You know, like a lot of people. I've struggled finding help with stress, pain and soreness. Sometimes I have a hard time getting to sleep. I was hesitant to try CBD until Caliper came along. Caliper delivers 30 times more CBD in the first 30 minutes versus CBD oil. Each packet contains precisely 20 milligrams. It's always THC free so you can feel better without the high. I open up a

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I love it. They also have these great walnut scrubbing pads that are amazing. You know, a lot of people say they want to use natural products, but not many people do. Grobe is the online marketplace that delivers healthy home, beauty, and personal care products directly to you. They take the guesswork out of going green. Every product is guaranteed to be good for you, your family, your home, and the planet. Join over 2 million households who choose to shop sustainably at Grove, plus shipping is fast and free on your first order.

Choosing products that are better for you in the planet has never been easier. For a limited time, when our listeners go to grove.com slash teacat, you will get to choose a free starter set with your first order. Go to grove.com slash teacat to get your exclusive offer. That's grove.com slash teacat. In July 1974 at the age of 21, Peter was sentenced to 9.5. years in jail with a five-year non-parole period. His psychologist, Dr. Bartholomew, noted, I am reasonably certain that this youth has a serious psychosexual problem, that he is using the

technique of denial as a coping device in that he is to be seen as potentially dangerous. The denial technique makes for huge difficulty in treatment. Well, absolutely. I mean, if you don't think you have a problem, how's treatment going to help you? Well, I mean, you can just go back to, you know, drugs and alcohol. What's the first thing that, that they always say about that, right? The first step is admitting that you have a problem. Sure. Acceptance. So I'm not equating the two. No. Drug and alcohol used to, you know, this type of sexual violence. But I can imagine that it must be very hard to treat an individual who doesn't believe that they've done anything wrong. Yeah.

Who's in denial about the fact that they're doing bad things. There's no weight treatment would ever work on that. But again, so here's a couple of it, just a couple of individuals, right, who have really kind of pegged this guy at an early age about just how dangerous potentially he is. Peter was released from prison on September 4th, 1979. So he did his five-year non-parole period. Gibbs, within 10 days of release, he raped four women. He didn't waste any time.

No. And according to the Daily Mail, he later told a police officer, it just comes over me. I can't help myself. No control. So obviously he got no help while he was in prison. They might have tried to help him. it didn't work.

And, you know, the other thing that I often think about is, so he's in there for five years. I imagine he's sitting in a cell every day for five years thinking about what he's going to do when he gets out. Right. Yeah. Because to commit four sexual assaults within 10 days of being released, it kind of proves that, right? Well, he obviously wasn't sitting around trying to think about how to be a better person, how to help society. Instead, he was thinking about his next victims.

Yeah, he wasn't saying, okay, when I get out, I'm going to volunteer at a homeless shelter. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that. No, he's thinking, as soon as I get out, I'm going back to doing what I want to do. Yeah. Now, is it what he wants to do?

Is it an uncontrollable urge? I don't know. We may visit that topic as we go along. In February of 1980, So again, he had not been out, right, for very long at all. Peter was sentenced to six and a half years with another five year minimum. A 1980 report says there is little that can be done in DuPas's favor. He remains an extremely disturbed, immature, and dangerous man.

His release on parole was a mistake. I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if somebody committed for very heinous rapes, 10 days after they were released, okay, we made a mistake. Sure, you did. We shouldn't have let this guy out on parole. And what the next parole board should do is read that report. Yeah. Or maybe just take into account everything that keeps stacking on top of each other.

That's the problem you and I often have in some of these episodes. It doesn't seem as though they do. You know, to me at a certain point, do you make the decision or come to the conclusion that someone is so dangerous? They're beyond help. They've, you've tried to help them. They don't want to be helped. They just want to hurt people. I think they should have made that decision with this guy, especially after his next release.

Yeah, Peter was released again in February, 1985. Again, he did the five-year minimum. So he's done 10 years already. Within a month, he raped a 21-year-old woman who was sun bathing on the beach. He followed her. He held her on the ground at knife point and raped her. When he was arrested, he told the police, I'm sorry for what happened. Everyone was telling me, I'm okay now.

I never thought it was going to happen again. I only wanted to live a normal life. I mean, right there, this man has some serious problems. And if they just would have looked at his history, I just think there was a rush to get him out of the system. Because he'd done his minimum. Yeah. Well, my question is, do you believe what he told the police? Do you believe that he really thought he was okay?

Do you believe that all he wanted to do was live a normal life? There's a part of me that can't. Yeah. There's a part of me that thinks, no, he was sitting there the whole time. thinking, all right, I'm about ready to get out. Where am I going to find my next victim? But even the last time he got out, he was saying that it just kind of comes over him and that he can't help himself.

Now he's like, look, everybody was saying I was okay. And I'm not okay. If you believe him. Well, I'll say this. I don't believe the first part. I believe the last part where he was not okay. Obviously he wasn't. What I'm questioning is whether he really thought he was okay.

got out and then just could not control the urges or if he knew all along that he wasn't going to be able to. And it was just a matter of saying whatever he had to say, manipulating whoever he had to manipulate to get out. And I think a lot of these killers do that. They're very manipulative. They're very good at it. Well, they're extremely good at it. So in June 1989, he received a 12-year sentence. This time, 10 years, no parole. Well, good. He needs more time, but they also need to, if he really has a problem,

they need to work on the problem. Well, I got the sense that they were. I got the sense that he was getting help during these stints in prison. You know, he's saying, hey, everybody's telling me I'm okay now. That kind of leads me to believe that he was going through. some type of therapy. He was getting some help. But is this a guy who can be helped?

And I think the answer becomes quite evident. No. In 1987, while in prison, Peter married a woman who was 16 years older than him. Mental health nurse Grace McConnell told the Harold's son, Peter was non-sexual. He was very timid around women.

She viewed herself as more of a mother than a wife. she said he insisted that he was in love with me and that with my help he could come out of himself and become a normal person she agreed saying it wasn't out of any type of particular love for peter but from a sense of responsibility to helping him become a useful member of the community she said he was two people living inside one shell one was kind and gentle the other was pure evil but i never knew. See, the problem I have with that, well, you had to know he's evil because this way he's in prison. I mean, the things that he did were pure evil. Yeah. I mean, and the fact that you married him, I'm assuming you thought he was kind. Would you marry somebody as not kind? I guess what I took

away from it was, you know, her saying, I didn't really love this guy, but I felt as though I needed to help him. All right. Well, then help him. Why marry him? Well, that was that was what I was thinking. Did it require marrying him to help him? And maybe it did because, you know, as far as I know, I don't know if she worked there or not, but maybe she thought on the visits, being a mental health nurse, she could do some good. Yeah. I still always have a hard time with understanding why women want to marry guys in prison who have done very nasty evil things. I get it. There's a fixer up component. Sure, there is. Yeah.

You know, some people like a fixer up in a mate. I mean, I think that's just been proven out. Right. Over time. I don't know if fixer up or is the right word, but you know what I'm saying. I'm a big fixer up. Somebody that they can help, you know, somebody who needs help. Some people don't want that at all. They want their partner to have their, you know what together. And. Exactly. I'm in that camp. I'm not really a fixer-upper when it comes to anything. Houses, cars. I want my car to work. Same here. I want my roof not to leak. I can fix things, but I don't want to have to fix things. I'm right with you. Yeah. Peter was released in 1992. In January of 1994, he attempted to rape another woman. So apparently he wore a hood and carried a knife with him to a local park. Well, at least he had a couple years of behaving that we know of. There's the key right there. And that's something you and I talk about quite a bit, right?

We can only talk about the things that are known. We're going to talk about during this episode some things that are suspected, but not known or haven't been proven. Right. Because DuPas has a bit of an unsolved element to him. There are a number of crimes. that he suspected of committing that we'll get into. The other thing, though, gives is if you're wearing a hood and carrying a knife to the park,

you're not looking for a pickup basketball game. You're looking to do something very bad. Yeah. I mean, the intent there is obvious. He found a woman who was picnicking with some of her friends. When she left to use the restroom, Peter followed her. He held her at knife point and attempted to rape her. But thankfully, some of her friends chased him off.

As he was fleeing the scene, he crashed his car and he was arrested. In August of that year, he took a plea deal on a false imprisonment charge. He was sentenced to three years and nine months in prison. Now, here's the other thing, right? So this guy has been in prison more than he's been out. At what point do you take a look at the repeat behavior and say, this guy's no good? Yeah. Three years on a false imprisonment charge.

Okay, I get it. That might be the norm. This guy's got a track record or a record a mile long. And he really wasn't there to falsely imprison somebody. He was going to rape this one. Sure he was. Yeah. And his prison rehabilitation is not working.

It's definitely not. So he was released in 1996. Just a couple years of that. Yeah. He spent about two years. He moved to a house in. Pasco Vale, a Melbourne suburb from 1997 to 1999. He murdered three women. And it was the third murder that led to his capture. And really what happened Gibbs was the police worked backwards

to discover that Peter DuPas was a serial killer. Yeah. And we're going to get into the murders, but, you know, so he does this last, this latest prison stand. There's only two years. but when he gets out, he starts murdering. Another level. So, I mean, what does that tell you? Obviously, he didn't get the help he needed. If anything, my thought is he was sitting around in prison saying, you know, what I've been doing is not working.

I keep getting caught. So is the answer for me to eliminate witnesses, thereby eliminating or minimizing the chance that I'll get caught and have to go back to prison. I don't know what was going on exactly in this guy's mind, but I think it's a strong argument. Yeah, I think that argument can be made. Peter killed Nicole Patterson in April of 1999. Nicole was a 28-year-old psychotherapist who worked as a youth counselor for the Ardok Youth Foundation. She helped young people struggling with drug addiction. She was acting on her dream of owning her own practice by setting up. her office in her house. She put ads in the paper to get clients. And basically what Peter did was he

called Nicole to set up an appointment for depression and a gambling addiction. But his real intention was to assess when she'd be most vulnerable. On August 19th, 1999, he posed as a client and he visited Nicole at her home office. And it was during this scheduled appointment that he stabbed her to death. and mutilated her body. He stabbed this woman 27 times. Excessive? Very excessive. I think the thing Gibbs that this really shows me is how calculating this guy was, right?

To go through all of this, searching for ads in the paper, finding his target, making an appointment, trying to scope out when his target was going to be the most vulnerable. There's a lot that went into this. This wasn't a spur of the moment thing. It was very calculated. Two neighbors reported hearing a young woman screaming and a loud argument between 9 and 930 a.m. They assumed it was a domestic dispute. Later that day, Nicole's boyfriend couldn't contact her.

And he became worried that evening Nicole's friend showed up to the house because Nicole failed to meet her at the restaurant where they were supposed to have dinner. or so she drove over to check on her. She heard a radio playing and she noticed that the front door was unlocked. When she went inside, she found Nicole's body in the front room of the house. Her friend thought that Nicole had taken her own life. And actually, when she made the call to police, that's the way she reported it. Yeah.

She didn't know any better. No, I'm not blaming her. There's no way that she really could have known. when police and EMS got there, they immediately knew, though, that it wasn't suicide. They declared it a homicide. Nicole was naked from the waist down.

Her skirt was found in another room. She had PVC type tape all over her body. And Gibbs her breasts had been cut off. Yeah, it's telling me that her friend probably didn't get a very close look at her. No, and again, you can't blame this woman because I think if anybody walks in on a scene like that and this is one of your very good friends,

you're probably not processing it all that well. Distraught as can be. Yeah. So there's definitely no blame there. Nicole's handbag, driver's license, and her breasts were missing. The murder weapon and Nicole's breasts have never been located. Police noticed that it looked like Nicole was having something. type of formal meeting with someone. She had a tray of coffee out and the front room was set up

like a professional consulting room. Police looked at her records and they saw that she had a 9 a.m. appointment with someone named Malcolm. His phone number was written in the appointment law. The problem is the number turned out to belong to a student at a university named Harry. So police went to talk to Harry. That's going to be an awkward conversation. Sure is. But what they found out was that a man had approached him with some type of offer to use his phone number for money. And that was all Harry knew. Guy paid him to use his phone number. He didn't know the identity of the man. Luckily, Harry had a verified alibi. And so he was dismissed as a suspect. But it just tells you how calculating Peter was. Yeah, obviously this man was Peter DuPas. The police looked through Nicole's

phone records and they found out that Peter had called her 15 times over a period of about 40 days using pay phones, a home phone. When they looked into his record, not too hard to figure out, right, Gibbs. This guy was a serial rapist. So I think based on that, how many times he had called, the fact that he used this guy's number to make the appointment. They figured he was Malcolm. They had enough evidence to arrest him and interrogate him. Peter was arrested on April 22nd, 1999 at a hotel. He told police that he'd canceled his appointment when Nicole told him to work through

his problems himself. He never showed up. Okay. I don't know how many therapists say, you know what? I don't really want to meet with you. Just handle your business on your own. Yeah, you should be able just to do some self-help. Yeah, that sounds hinky from the get-go.

Officers also noticed a scratch on his face that looked as though it could have come from a human fingernail. Now, Peter said he got it while working on a shed in his backyard. He said a piece of wood hit him in the face. Well, I'm sure the police didn't believe that at all. No, they didn't. But, you know, those pieces of wood. you got to watch out for them. They're all over the place.

They come out. They swing themselves. They'll hit you right in the face. A search of Peter's house found bloodstained clothing, PVC tape, a ski mask, newspaper clippings about Nicole's murder, and a paper that contained her ads.

And it was determined that that PVC tape was the exact tape found on Nicole's body. In the trash can was a paper with his appointment time and location. The paper had the name Malcolm written on it and the matching phone number. So, I mean, we're gathering a lot of good evidence here. You know, the police are. It'll be hard to dispute that. Yeah, they also found a kit that contained gloves, condoms, and a mask. You know, just your normal kit that most men take with them wherever they go. That's right, man. Gloves, condoms, and a mask. I think if you're pulled over and in the trunk, you have

a kit that contains these items, you're suspect. Back then. Back then, what are you saying? Back now, what? Just with the COVID, people like, well, okay, the mask. Well, that is true. And you're just very active, aren't you, buddy? That's true.

The mask thing during COVID is something I often think about. I just wonder how many people have taken advantage of the pandemic and the mask wearing to get away with certain things. Yeah. Crimes. Um, you know, stickups, robberies. I, I, I wonder how much of that is going on. Because, you know, a lot of people just wear the face covering or the,

the, what, the mask over your nose and mouth. Mm-hmm. But I've seen people with even like full face mask on. You mean like a, like a full gator type. Yeah. Jesse James. I'm robbing a train mask. You got it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure there are people, because there are always unscrupulous people looking to take advantage of a bad situation. Sure. Hey, Tcat fans, if there's something interfering with your happiness or preventing you from achieving your goals, I'm here to tell you better help is there for you. I've used the service, it works. Better help will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. You can start communicating in under 48 hours. This is not a crisis line. It's not self-help. This is professional therapy done securely online. The service is available for clients worldwide. You'll get timely and thoughtful responses to messages you should. send your therapist. Plus, you can schedule weekly video or phone session. And if you don't

like your therapist, you can change anytime at no charge. BetterHelp wants you to start living a happier life today. Head over to their website, read their testimonials that are posted daily. It's more affordable than traditional offline therapy and financial aid is available. Visit betterhelp.com slash T-Cat. That's BetterHELP and join the over 1 million people who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experience performance. professional. T-CAT listeners get 10% off your first month at BetterHelp.com slash T-Cat. Peter was charged with first-degree murder. Testing of a jacket found Nicole and Peter's DNA on it.

Peter was also seen on CCTV footage from April 19th wearing the jacket. So again, this is a lot of great evidence. When they sat down and questioned Peter about the murder, he said his girlfriend was out of town and he was running errands alone that day. Okay. Is that believable? Not believable. Could somebody be running errands on their own?

Sure. I do it all the time. Yeah. The problem is police don't have my jacket with a murder victim's DNA on it. So, you know, it kind of blows your, I'm running Aaron's theory out of the water. Yeah, squashes it pretty quickly. police learned that Peter's signature was to stab women and remove their breasts, something that would help them solve other murders in subsequent years. And we've already talked about it,

right? Peter had two murder victims prior to Nicole. But at this point in time, those women's murders were unsolved. It took a comparison of evidence, police reports, and DNA. for the police to put it all together and figure out that Peter DuPas was a serial killed. Peter killed 40-year-old Margaret Mayer in October of 1997. Margaret was a sex worker who Peter randomly selected and attacked. Margaret was described as a very gentle woman. People in her community, they had a lot of nice things to say about her. They liked her a lot.

Margaret was struggling with drug addiction. and she turned to sex work as a way to make money. She was last seen alive at a supermarket at 12.20 a.m. on October 4th, 1997. Her body was found under a cardboard box at 1.45 p.m. by a man who was collecting aluminum cans with his wife and children. What a shock to find that. Yeah. You're just going along trying to find some aluminum cans, make a little extra money. you got your whole family in tow and you find a murdered woman. Peter strangled Margaret, stabbed her. And after she was dead, he cut off her left breast and he stuffed it in her mouth.

This is a sick SOB. It really is, man. She had a stab wound to her left wrist. She had bruising on her neck and blunt force trauma to her head. At the time, Margaret's murder case went cold very quickly. You know, it's been said Gibbs that a lot of that had to do with her line of work. So maybe they didn't investigate it as well as they should have. Yeah, the thought is police just didn't put all that much effort into the investigation because of what Margaret did for a living. They were only able to solve her murder after Peter was arrested for killing Nicole. And what I found interesting was that Margaret and Nicole were the only murders in Australia.

during that decade where the women's breasts were removed. Well, that's helpful to the police, to the investigators. Well, I think it linked him, right? That's a, it's a very specific type of signature for a killer. Now, testing of a wool glove from the crime scene later was found to have his DNA on it. So that kind of sealed it up. But when Margaret was killed, Peter had been. out of prison for just a little bit over a year. And by that time, he wasn't under parole supervision.

And he was already serving his life sentence for killing Nicole when the police charged him with Margaret's murder. You know, pretty easy for them to get a DNA sample and confirm that it matched and and all that. Peter also killed 25 year old Mercina Halvagas on November 1st, 1997. Mersina went to Faulkner Cemetery to clean her grandmother's grave. And it came out Gibbs that Peter was there at the cemetery with the express purpose of stalking women and maybe also to visit his grandfather's grave, which wasn't all that far from Mercina's grandmother's grave. But I'm leaning towards the former. Well, I think you're right because he'd like to stay at the hill. hotel opposite of the cemetery. Just to see how many women came and went. Yeah. You know,

if you think about it, and this is kind of ominous, but a lot of people go to the cemetery alone. Mm-hmm. You know, to visit with a loved one who's passed away, sometimes that's a very personal thing. And they're vulnerable at that moment, too. Well, and that's where I was kind of heading, right? If you're a woman going to a cemetery alone, that can make you very vulnerable. It's not like cemeteries are always packed with people. And if Peter's looking from the hotel and again, being very calculating and looking to see who's coming and going, what time of the day is the most busiest on this day, that day, he's putting in a lot of work.

He spotted Mercina alone at the gravesite. and Gibbs, I think he saw it as a perfect opportunity to take another victim. Mercina was killed sometime between 3.45 and 4 p.m. Her fiance, Angelo Georgievsky, was worried when he couldn't find her. She drove his car to the cemetery and didn't return. In the early morning hours of November 2nd, he and Mercina's father went to the cemetery and found her body lying between two heads. She was stabbed over 30 times.

She had stab wounds to her knees, neck, and her breasts. The police believe she was attacked while she was kneeling at the grave. So again, talking about being vulnerable. Obviously, there's no one around. Nobody witnessed this attack. This is during the day. Depending on the layout, some of these cemeteries can be pretty big. Yeah.

And some parts of them can be secluded, maybe away from the, the road, from passing cars, all that stuff. But this guy is a monster. Yeah. Well, you know, pure and simple. Now, there were witnesses who saw Peter wandering around the cemetery. There were a number of women that later told police how he made them feel very uncomfortable. One woman even provided the police with a sketch of the suspect.

Again, you got to remember, they don't know it's Peter, right? At this time, these murders happened before. it was after Mercina's murder that Peter made some efforts to change his appearance. He also sold his car to a co-worker in December of 1997. The car was crushed for scrap metal. So it was never examined for evidence. The police interviewed over 1,000 people, but they couldn't figure out who killed Mercina. Her murder was unsolved for years.

And her parents pushed for a $1 million reward. but it took them almost 10 years to get the answers that they were searching for. So a little different, right? Gibbs, we started with his third murder. Right. The murder that ultimately led to him being caught and then we went backwards in time. The jury for Peter's first trial only took about three hours to convict him. He was sentenced to life in prison with no parole on August 22nd, 2000 for

the murder of Nicole Patterson. The judge said that his chances of rehabilitation were, quote, so close to hopeless, they can effectively be dismissed. So he's basically saying, this guy's incorrigible. Yeah. No hope for him. There's no hope that he's ever going to be redeemable and become a contributing member of society.

So we're going to throw him in prison and throw away the. key, essentially. Peter appealed in August 2001, but that appeal was dismissed. While he was in prison in the early 2000s, Peter met an ex-lawyer named Andrew Fraser. They became friends working in the garden together. They were considered the jail's odd couple, which it is pretty odd, right? You got a former attorney and a serial killer. I think the name fits well. Andrew was in jail on drug charges. They served time in prison protection with 35 other inmates. They ran the vegetable garden. They enjoyed watching gardening shows on TV.

Essentially, the way I understood it Gibbs was that Peter somehow transformed his obsession with killing into an obsession with gardening. Yeah, to the point he threatened prisoners who tried to steal any of his vegetables. And he beheaded mice, he caught in his compost heap. He's serious about his garden. He's more serious about that compost heap. While these two men work together, Peter confessed a lot of information to Andrew Fraser. In 2002, Peter sought him out for advice. He'd been interviewed about Margaret and Mercina's murders.

And he asked Andrew what he should do. The detectives told him a DNA sample, linked him to Margaret's murder. He told Andrew there was no forensic evidence linking him to Mercina's murder, or to someone he referred to as the old Sheila down the road. The old Sheila down the road. Okay. At the trial for Margaret's murder, the prosecution presented similarities. Between her murder and Nicole's murder,

the defense argued that brastened genital mutilation were common during the Vietnam War. So that was not enough evidence to convict Peter. But the jury disagreed. Peter was sentenced to life in prison without parole on August 16th, 2004 for Margaret's murder. So now he has two life sentences, no parole. Right. A psychologist named Ian Joblin released a report saying, DuPas attacked the women to fulfill fantasies of conquest and control.

For him, the actual assault has not lived up to the fantasy which preceded the assault and is seen at times as disappointing. He does not feel reassured by either his performance or his victim's response and must find another victim in his mind this time the right one. So basically he's saying this is why he feels the need to repeat these attacks because he's not getting from them what he thinks he should. I'm paraphrasing, but that's the way I'm taking. what this psychologist is saying.

Peter appealed in July 2005 to the Victoria Supreme Court. That was dismissed. A 2006 inquest into Mercina's death was adjourned when Peter's lawyer said there was only circumstantial evidence against him. The police got permission to interview him in prison in September that year. It's not known what Peter said in the interview, but on September 11th, 2006, he was charged with murdering Mercina after Andrew gave the police some information. What's been some good information.

Well, apparently, Peter and Fraser were walking around the garden. When another prisoner approached him and yelled at him, saying that he killed his cousin, Mercina, Peter asked Andrew, how could this guy know what I've done? Andrew said he found a homemade shank in the garden a few minutes later. and he called Peter over to inspect it. Peter picked up the knife and apparently whispered Mercina, Mercina. Okay, that's freaky.

It's a little chilling. Then Peter told him there was no DNA at Mercina's crime scene. Now, for Andrew, he got released two months early for giving information to the authorities. And it was on December 12, 2006, that Peter was ordered to stand trial for Mercina's murder. In July of 2007, the trial jury was dismissed because of a legal technicality. But the trial continued. One of the witnesses against Peter was Andrew Fraser. He testified that Peter had confessed to him.

The prosecution presented all the evidence, a witness statements about Mercina's murder, and Peter was found guilty on August 9th, 2007, and he was sentenced to a third life term. stacking up. They're stacking up against him. But later that year, he appealed this third conviction and won. The court ruled that the directions of the judge were inadequate and that Peter deserved a retrial. That retrial began in April of 2010. He was convicted a second time. ABC Australia reported that the judge described him as, quote, a psychopath driven by a hatred of women. I think that's pretty safe to say. I think so too. His final appeal failed.

So in the end, he got three life sentences with no chance of parole. You know, he is considered one of Australia's most notorious serial killers and sexual predators. I think a lot of people thought Peter DuPas would be forgotten in prison. But in 2017, there was a suppression order for the media that forbade them from talking about Peter's case at all. He had a pending charge. And the jury wasn't allowed to know he had killed three women in the 90s. And I guess this was a very serious suppression order. One reporter had to apologize to the Supreme Court for calling Peter a serial killer on the air. So as we get into this new charge, Gibbs, it came about because Peter has three other suspected victims. We talked about. We talked about.

about this right up front. Sure. Right. There's what is known. There's his known victims and his known murders and sexual assaults. Those are horrible. But there are other crimes that police believe Peter committed. The first victim was a 95-year-old woman named Kathleen Downs. Kathleen has been described as a sweet woman. She had been a widow for over 30 years after her husband died in 1964, she lived at home until she had a stroke and then she had to go into a nursing home. All the staff and the other residents loved her. They considered her basically the matriarch of the facility. But Kathleen was murdered in her bedroom at the nursing home in the early morning hours of

December 31st, 1997. She was stabbed in the neck and her throat was cut. Her killer used bulk cutters to sneak in through a kid. kitchen window, Kathleen's bedroom was the closest to the fire escape, which is why he picked her room. At 3 a.m., one resident was lying in bed when she saw her door slowly creeping open. She screamed and the door shut. Around the same time, another resident reported hearing a door opening and blinds rattling. He was pretty active, it sounded like. In looking for a victim, The staff noted that Kathleen was asleep at 1230 a.m.

A manager of the facility found her body at 6.30 a.m. She was laying on her bedroom floor in a pool of blood. But I said this happened in 1997. It wasn't until years later that investigators suspected Peter DuPas. Her injuries were similar to the other victims. Apparently, the offender called using a fake name, which we know Peter had done previously. He had also previously assaulted elderly women.

Kathleen, Mercina, and Margaret were all killed in close proximity to each other. And Kathleen's murder occurred less than 24 hours after Peter visited his mother. His mother also looked similar to Kathleen. And police think Peter killed her because she reminded him of his mother. So Peter made two calls to this nursing home in late November of 1997. He apparently used the alias William Johnston and pretended he was making an appointment to tour rooms for his mother. He didn't show up to either of these appointments.

A November 27th appointment record says William Johnston to see room no show again. So again, very reminiscent of what he did. in the murder of Nicole Patterson. Yeah, really it is. Right. Used a fake name, bogus number, made an appointment. On December 31st, 1997, Peter made calls to his girlfriend in South Africa at 4.36 a.m. and 4.38 a.m., which police said prove he was awake at the time Kathleen was murdered.

Okay, not real concrete evidence, but I get what they're saying. less than two months after Kathleen's murder, someone broke into Peter's home. They stole some jewelry, power tools, and a camera. The burglar was arrested and confessed he also stole some bolt cutters. The funny thing was that Peter never mentioned anything about someone stealing his bolt cutters. And why would he do that? Well, if he was the killer and he used these bolt cutters, okay that's okay steal them right you're you're taking the evidence with you yeah i can see where he wouldn't be too upset about those bulk cutters uh walking off no not if he used them in the commission of a murder not at all in december 2000 the victoria police offered 100,000 dollars for any

information on kathleen's murder peter also spoke to andrew about kathleen and this is where it came out, Gibbs, that, you know, this reference that he made to what he said was the old Sheila downs. He claimed he left no forensic evidence behind it to scene. And the Harold's son reported that he said, I reckon I'm going to end up wearing the old Sheila downs too. So I think everybody is kind of taking that to mean that the old Sheila was Kathleen and that he thought at some point he was going to be nabbed for her murder. Peter was interviewed again in 2001, but he refused to comment. In June 2013, Peter was taken from his jail cell for an interview about killing Kathleen.

The police were allotted five hours to question him, but it only took 40 minutes, basically because he refused to answer any questions. I think they gave up 40 minutes in because they just knew they weren't going to get anything out of him. This guy ain't going to say nothing. In 2014, Peter was called to give evidence at an inquest for the murder of Kathleen Downs. He didn't speak at the inquest on the grounds that he might have incriminated himself. Now, Andrew spoke at the inquest about what Peter told him about Kathleen. And for that, he received part of the $1 million reward for information.

And he got a reduction of two months off his sentence. Yeah. So, you know, again, he already had an incentive to talk and to give up information. Yeah. But, you know, you're going to get a little cash out of it too. Can't hurt to have a little bit of walking money. Peter was officially charged with killing Kathleen in February 2018. But the case collapsed a year later.

The suppression order on the media was lifted after a murder trial against Peter was dismissed in October of 2019. The prosecution star witness. former prisoner Andrew Frazier was sick with cancer and he couldn't testify. So basically that ended the chance of Peter getting to trial. So there was no need for the suppression order. Now Peter is also suspected of the February 13th, in 1985 murder of Helen McMahon.

Helen was beaten to death while sunbathing at the beach. Her naked body was found covered by a beach towel. near the location where Peter raped the 21-year-old woman on the beach. Peter's done that before. Yeah. Yeah, he's gone back to previous areas. But what I found interesting was that the day Helen was killed, Peter was on temporary leave from prison that day.

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of that. Of the temporary leave, I'm not either. You know, we've seen that in a number of, cases, it happens in a number of countries. It's something we're not used to really all that much here. Not saying it doesn't happen. I just don't think it happens with nearly the same frequency that it does in other countries. Police believe Helen was Peter's first murder victim, but her murder remains unsolved.

He's also suspected of killing 31-year-old Renita Brunton. In 1993, her murder remains unsolved. as well. Renita was attacked in the kitchen in the back of the secondhand clothing store she owned. Gibbs, she was stabbed 106 times. So there's an extreme and then there's this, right? This is over the top. I mean, we've done a number of stabbing cases. And I know there have been some very, very high numbers. I don't have we had a number this high, 106 times? Maybe we have. I just can't think of it. But obviously, there's no reason in the world to have to stab somebody 106 times. Now, do you need to stab somebody at all? No, I get that. But for a killer, even, to go to that

extreme of 106 stabs, there is something going on. They are angry about something. And they're going way over the top to get that anger out. Well, this is above normal rage. Well, hey, if you know anything about this murder, there is a million dollar reward for any information about the case. And again, we keep going back, you know, these Australian cases. They do not mess around over there when it comes to reward money. They really put a lot of emphasis on reward money to try and solve cases, much more so than we do here in the U.S. For sure. And I wish everybody would up the ante.

Yeah. No, I'm right with you. You know, as of this year, Peter's 68 years old. It's almost certain that he will die in prison, a fate that I think most people believe he deserves. The judge said that the trial dismissal doesn't mean Peter is acquitted. Prosecutors and police might be able to bring a case against him in the murder of Kathleen Downs in the future.

Many people hope that new evidence will come forward about Helen and Reni. as murders as well so their families can get the answers that they deserve. It's a brutal case, man. And this is a brutal guy. You know, I go back to the beginning. Not much in the way of background that really would make you think, okay, this guy was going to head down a really bad path, right? We didn't talk about abuse.

We didn't talk about trauma. We actually said there was no evidence of it. But there's no doubt there's something going on. on inside him. And I'm telling you right now, Gibbs, at 68 years old, I bet if he walked out of prison today, his first thought would be, where do I find my next victim? Yeah. How can I find somebody that is vulnerable that I can take advantage of? There's no doubt in my mind. And he doesn't have a fear of going to prison anyway. No, he spent more than half his life, it seems like in prison.

I think way more than half his life. As we wrap up this case, one of the things that, you know, really kind of fascinated me was I watched some videos. Most of them, I think, from ABC News Australia.

And it was family members, specifically the family members of Mercina talking about Peter. And, you know, after that trial and everything. And they, rightfully so they were just blasting this guy but they what the words they were using they were calling

him a coward talking about the fact that you know he's in prison but he's got to be in protective custody there's no way he could stand up to a man he can only take advantage of you know someone vulnerable that's the kind of piece of you know what that he is and right you could really just get the the the sense of rage from them that, that they had against this man. And rightfully so. Sure. Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, he took away their loved one from them, but a pretty well-known case, especially in Australia, well-known killer. You know, he got what he deserved, but I think he deserves even more.

Now, I don't know what he can get as far as, okay, extra life sentences. I guess what I mean is, I want to see him held accountable. for these other murders if he did in fact commit them. And I think a lot of people think he did.

Well, I hope so too. I think he definitely did one of the three. I kind of think he probably did two of the three. I'm not sure about the third one. But, yeah, I mean, there's no certainty there. I mean, there's a lot of smoke, I think, especially when you talk about the murder of Kathleen Downs. Is there fire?

I don't know. You know, it seemed like, probably not because once Andrew was unable to testify, it pretty much fell apart. Yeah. That tells me they didn't have really anything more than the testimony of his, his jailhouse friend. But that's it for our episode on Peter DePas. Definitely a vile individual. No doubt about that.

We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Let's hear him. Hi, Mike and Gibby. My name is Stephanie from Long Island, New York. I've listened to you guys for about two years now, but just the first time I'm calling. I wanted to meet you both a happy related birthday. Not only that, but I want to give a big shout out to the best big brother in the world.

His name is Kevin. I actually turned him on to his show, and he's obsessed. We both love you guys, and I actually just wanted to leave this voicemail as a surprise for him to let him know that I actually signed him on for Patreon. I hope he loves it. And also, I just wanted to say, yeah, I really enjoy what you guys do. And I look forward to your podcast every single week. It kind of sucks that I'm caught up because then I have to wait a whole week for the new episode. But thank you for what you guys do.

And I love you guys. Stay safe and keep your own time picking. Oh, that is awesome voicemail. And what a cool little sister act. Yeah, what a great gift. Right? To sign her big bro up for Patreon. That's really cool.

I actually don't know if we've given him his shout out yet. So maybe we have, I'm sometimes late with the voicemail. So you never know. Yeah. We're also sometimes late with the Patreon names. But we appreciate the voicemail very much. Do. Hi, Mike and Gibby.

This is a list. I'm originally from Napoleon, Ohio, which is a small town in northwest Ohio. But I am now living just up in Toledo. and I have been for a while. I'm trying to catch up. I'm currently on episode 100, which is Ed Temper, and I love your guys' podcasts. I love that you're super respectful to the victims and their families

because there are some podcasts out there I've listened to that aren't and can just be kind of disrespectful. So keep up the good work. I did have kind of a connection to you guys. I actually have an aunt and uncle that live in Centerville, which I know is probably not that far from you. And my parents were actually there visiting them and went to a bad company concert at the Frays Amphitheater. So just keep up the good work. I love listening to you guys on my way to work and when I'm cleaning around the house and keep your own time picking.

Hi, guys. This is Alyssa from Napoleon again. And I just forgot to add that Gibby, I love you, but Team Furgy, just because my birthday is June 28th. And I know on a podcast I listened to not long ago, he said his is June 29th. So I got to stick with my June guy. Sorry, Gibbs. But you know, I had to add that back in. You did, didn't you? I couldn't just let the first part go.

So obviously, Senatorville is very close to where I live. You and I have both been to the phrase, very cool place. I was there that night because I opened up for them. You did. You opened up for bad company. Yeah. I actually loved bad company back in the day when I was in high school. I had a bad company phase.

But you did. Feel like making love, you know, classic rock. You say that. That's weird. I shouldn't look you in the eyes when they said that. But we appreciate the voicemail. Hey, y'all. My name is Emily.

I'm currently from Jonesboro, Georgia. Sorry. I was calling because I've been listening to your show for about two months now. I actually work at an office job. and I literally just key from a computer all day. And, yeah, so I just listen to you guys, like, pretty much all day. I was actually calling because it's 11 o'clock at night, and I just watched the TikTok that was talking about how Atlanta, Atlanta, Georgia may have a serial killer.

So, you know, just pray for Atlanta right now. That's one. And two, you know, hopefully they catch the serial killer soon so you guys can make a T-CAT episode about it. Yeah, I love you guys this show. I love everything you do. And yeah. All right. We've got to be worried about the serial killer in Atlanta.

Now, Atlanta is a big place. It is a big place. I kind of assume that there are probably, I hate to say this, but one, if not more serial killers operating in and around Atlanta at most times. When you're talking about a big city, you know, Atlanta, even bigger cities, New York, L.A., I just assume that they're serial killers. It's scary. Definitely more out there than we realize. Yeah, but this is one that's obviously getting attention. because I think they're,

they may be starting to put the pattern together. Right. So obviously that's a scary thought. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Angela Sal from Hickory Creek, Texas. And I wanted to tell you all a funny story. I was in my car listening to you guys on the Bluetooth radio in the car. And you all were talking about,

you know, Gibby's crime adventures. And so I'm listening. I'm driving. And all of a sudden I hear poohy's roof. Port it ahead. And I thought Mike had thrown something in there to be funny. And then I realized it was my ways out, letting me know that there was police ahead.

So anyway, it was so funny. I was laughing in my car. I just wanted to share that with you. Love you guys. And keep your own time kicking. It was funny and we didn't even do it. I know. But it wouldn't be surprised if you did.

No. What I am. My ways does not sing to me. I need to figure out how to change it so that my way says, police reported ahead. You just wanted a saying. No. But that would be funny.

It would be funny. So we appreciate all the voicemails. We had mailbag Gibbs. Brie Hildebrand sent you $10, $100 bills because you requested it. I know. Now, it turned out to be fake movie money. It was. But up until the point where you figured it out, it was priceless.

I fanned it out on your chair in the studio. and I got the biggest kick. I should have put it on video for Patreon, but. So what I need to say is real. I would like real $100 bills. Yeah. When you rub that genie lamp, you got to be very specific on how you make your wishes.

From the U.S. From the U.S. May, Cecily, Egglin sent us some Norwegian chocolate, some hand-knitted socks. Very cool. Yeah. I still call Austral. Australia home sent us two huge bags filled with Tim Tam.

They certainly did huge bags. Yeah, huge. And there was no other name on there. So that's what I'm going with. Tracy Campo sent us a big box of goodies from Buckees. And it was massive. Beef jerky, beaver nuggets,

a whole bunch of stuff. Gummy bears, everything. Loaded. Yeah. So we appreciate all that. Gibbs, that's it for our episode on Peter DePas.

and another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.