True Crime All The Time - Peter Lundin

Episode Date: January 20, 2020

We're discussing Peter Lundin, one of Denmark's most notorious murderers. But, Lundin moved to the United States with his family as a child and committed his first murder in North Carolina. After doing his time for that murder, he was shipped back to Denmark and within a short time butchered a family of three.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss one of Denmark's most infamous killers. Lundin has a tumultuous childhood and ultimately killed his own mother. We delve in Lundin's spot on the psychopathy scale and his later murders in Denmark. You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Your math skills have global potential. As an actuary, you'll solve some of the world's most pressing problems while helping people to live better lives. Become an actuary through the society of actuaries and work anywhere in the world. Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 166 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you? I'm good, man. How are you doing?

That's the question. How you doing? Yeah, how you do it? I'm doing pretty good. Good. I actually got it. I had to chuckle for a minute. When I said the word Gibby, my daughter is rewatching some old I Carly shows. Right. That we used to watch when she was little. And every now and then I'll walk through and they'll be Gibby with his shirt off, dancing on a table. Just dancing, man. And it just cracks me up. That's where I get my dance moves from. Exactly. I inspired to be the same. No, everything's going good, though. And I'm excited about the cases that we have. have on both true crime all time and unsolved this week. But before we jump in, we had some new Patreon supporters. So let's go ahead and do our shoutouts. We had Amanda Tui Price. Hey, Amanda.

Naomi Rintmeister. Hey, Naomi. Joanne Blankenship. What's going on, Joanne? Laura Davis. Hey, Laura. Cassie Patton. Hey, Cassie.

Haley, Mapples. What's going on, Haley? Jeff Roberts. What's going on, Jeff? Samantha Ellifson. Ooh, Ellisfon. Did you say Ellis phone? Probably.

Okay. Yeah. Evie Nunez-Teal. Ooh, Evie. That's what I'm going with. I like that. Anita Shafer. What's going on, Anita?

Alexa Cooper jumped out to our highest level. I appreciate that, Alexa. Cassie Pera. What's going on, Cassie Ellis? Hey, Macy. Stacey Coles. What's going on, Stacy? Lacey Valentine jumped out of our highest level.

A lot of Macy, Stacey, Lacey going on here. There is a lot of rhyming names. We had Odd Cat. spelled with two T's like T-Cat. What's going on, odd. Amanda Light. Hey, Amanda. Nora aboutum.

Abutton. Abootum. Abootum. It could be. It could be. Yeah. Randy Luca. Hey, Randy.

Fee Roberts. What's going on, Fee? The guy. Just the guy. Just the guy. Just the guy. Melanie. Hey, Melanie.

And Fadra Opeelski. Hey, Fadja. So we appreciate all that new support. And then if we go back into the vault, Gibbs. This week, we selected Aryan, Batinger. Hey, Aryan, how you doing? Yeah, been with us a long time. We appreciate the new support and the continued long-term support that we get from our Patreon folks. Amazing. We also had some PayPal, Julie Cox. Hey, Julie. Sue Raglan. What's going on, Sue? Christine Hazel. Really?

Our good friend. Yeah, I appreciate that. Made a sizable donation. Wow. She's doing well, and we're really happy about that. We are. And we hope to see her at CrimeCon again. And, And we also had Catherine McAndrew, gave a sizable donation. Thanks, Catherine. So big thanks. Big thanks there. All right. Gibbs, right now we have an episode out on True Crime All Time Unsolved.

We do. We're talking about the disappearance of Zachary Ramsey. Yeah, what a good episode that is. We're headed to Montana. Yeah. Get your winter jacket out or coat or blazer or whatever you call it. Parka. or whatever you call it.

Yeah. But Zachary disappeared on his way to school. He did. He was walking to school, never arrived. And then the investigation begins. But make sure you check this one out. There is a definite suspect in the case that we spend a lot of the episode talking about. Really bad guy, man.

Bad guy, but it's a very interesting story. Don't forget about CrimeCon. If you still need tickets, go to CrimeCon.com. Use our promo code T-Cat 20. Yeah. And you'll save a little bit off of your standard badge price. And it makes sure that it gets me there. Yeah.

I'll show up. And Gibby will have a room. That's what he's banking on. Yeah, I don't want to have to share with Fergie. We talk about this every year. It's not so much that you don't want to share with me. You don't want to open up your wallet to pay for a hotel room. Let's just be completely honest with everyone.

If we're actually going to dig into it and get to the bottom line, you're right. Get to the root of the issue. Yeah. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? Yeah, let's do it. For the first time, we are doing a Scandinavian case. We've been hinting at it or threatening it, however you want to look at it.

This is a strange case. Some of it takes place in the United States. Some of it takes place in Denver. So we're discussing one of Denmark's most notorious killers, Peter London. Now, I'm going to say his last name is London. Yeah. I think some people over there might say Lundon. Well, I think it'd be London, because that's how we would say it over there.

Did you just do that with an Indian accent? I don't know where it went. I think it went Indian. It might have. Almost like Pakistani. I don't know, man. Oh my goodness. You and your accents.

But I'm going to say London, you know, and I've got to preface this episode. Gibbs, I called you how many times over the past how many weeks saying this is a tough case to research. Right. First of all, the case was not covered much at all in the United States. That's a problem. It is a problem because it's a huge case in Denmark. Yeah. And I thought for sure that there would have been more coverage.

on it in the U.S. but I quickly found out that was not the case. And so you have that. You also have the fact that it's tough to try to figure out how to pronounce certain names and places. So we'll say this. We did our best. Sure.

But I'm saying up front, there's probably no chance that we're going to get all of these correct. Hell, we can't even get them right in an episode in New York State. Yeah, let alone. So, you know, our Scandinavian listeners might want to play a drinking game that involves taking a drink every time we mess up. I think you'd be okay, though, because I did help translate, and I did help with the pronunciation of the words. Yeah. You barely got out the word pronunciation, didn't you? They all were getting ready to. They're right. We're going to drink on that one.

But I will say this. If you're going to do it, I would recommend using something with a low alcohol content for safety. So Peter London was born in Roskila, Denmark on February 15, 1972, to Ole and Anna London. And gives the story of Ole and Anna is an interesting one. In his youth, Oleg left Denmark for Canada. And then he made his way to the United States, joined the armed services so that he could serve in the Korean War. That's awesome. It's kind of strange, right? That a guy from Denmark would, by the way of Canada, make his way to the U.S., join the army, get sent over into the Korean War.

Now, he ended up being stationed in Germany, and that's where he met Anna. There's a lot of marriage is made in Germany with service members. There was. There was. I'm sure there's still or some today, but there was. But there was a lot back in the day. You're definitely right. And that's exactly what happened here.

They married and eventually made their way back to Denmark. Later to have their son, Peter. The family moved to the United States in 1980. So Peter would have been seven, eight years old. They first settled in Florida. Then they moved to Maggie Valley, North Carolina in 1984. Good old Maggie. Maggie Valley.

Maggie Valley. Peter would later say that the family came to the U.S. to search out the American dream. How often have you heard that, you know, all the way back into the 1800s? Oh, yeah. That's why everybody came here, man. Land of opportunity. But from the research, I don't think they found it. Peter started his criminal career pretty early.

Now, I wouldn't say it was a massive criminal career. what I read was he was involved in quite a few thefts and some of that type of criminal activity. We're definitely not talking about murder as far as I know. And then you look at the marriage of his parents. It does not appear to have been a good one. There are reports Gibbs that both Olae and Anna drank heavily and sparred on a routine basis. Well, I think any time that you decide to. leave your home country and move to another one, it automatically puts some tension and pressure

into the relationship, right? Well, it's going to add a degree of difficulty. Sure. You don't have your support system. Sure. So you add that on top of just a normal everyday marriage issues. And then you add alcohol into the mix. Yeah, it's going to be explosive. It does make for a volatile situation. As Peter grew older, he too started drinking. He got into drugs, but he also got into the act, this sparring with his family. And especially his mother. It appears as though it was really Peter and his father ganging up on Anna in these drunken altercations. Yeah. And again, I don't know how physical they got. But not. do think it went both ways.

You know, there are reports that Anna was verbally abusive to her husband and her son. Yeah. There were reports that they were, you know, very abusive to her. The cops were called out on numerous occasions. It was one of those types of deals. So they all could dish it out pretty good. They could. I got the sense, though, that for the most part, it was Anna and her son.

And then Peter and his dad against Anna. That's just the way it kind of played out to me in the research. Either way, none of it's good. No. It was not a harmonious family by any stretch of the imagination. The couple split up a bunch of different times. There were times where Ole and Peter would leave. They would take off and live in all kinds of different cities across the country.

but eventually the family reunited in North Carolina around the time that Peter was in high school. Then in the spring of 1991, Anna and Olay made the decision to separate again. Yeah, and these people just didn't seem like they could stay together, but it also seemed as though they couldn't stay apart. Yeah. I mean, if you're going to separate that many times, I mean, it's trying to tell you something. At some point, you're going to have to go your separate ways. Well, and also by this point, Peter was 19 years old.

Sure. So the plan was for 59-year-old Anna to fly back to her native country of Germany to live with relatives. But she would never make it to Germany. Anna was last seen on April 1st. And as the story goes, she was at the family home, drunk. My assumption is she probably wasn't the only one. So just a regular night at the household. At the household.

As Peter has told the story, Anna came at him with a pair of scissors, threatening to cut his hair. And I think this is the time where we have to describe Peter. He had this long black flowing hair. Did that hurt saying that? It did. Okay. I was very envious as I looked through the pictures. I was thinking so.

He often sported a beard in the pictures. that I saw, he looked to me, Gibbs, like someone from a 1970s rock band. He had kind of a 1970s Mick Fleetwood thing going on, even though this was the early 90s. Right. He's still rocking this kind of 1970s look. If you can pull retro off, pull it off, man. But I think the big thing here is that Peter didn't want his long main cut. He just didn't want it.

You know, you got people. that are inebrated. You have one person that has a pair of scissors threatening to cut your hair. This was sometime after April 1st. Nobody really seems to know the exact date, but Peter killed his mother Anna. So apparently she's coming at him with the scissors. And he grabbed her and strangled her to death. Wow. Then he wrapped her body in plastic garbage. bags, tied duct tape around the garbage bags, and then Peter and his father drove to the outer banks with Anna's body. Peter buried the body in a dune near a lighthouse out on Cape Hatters. Wow, man, they really thought that one through. And we're going to get into Oleg's role, right? He seems to be

involved in this whole case as we go through it. He didn't have anything to do with the murder. But he definitely had something to do with the cover up and the disposal of the body. But here's the thing. And his body wasn't found for seven months. And really, I think the only reason it was found is there was a big storm off the coast that washed away or swept away. Yeah, the sand dune. The sand dune where they had buried her body exposing the garbage bags. And everything was discovered by some people walking along the beach on November 1st, 1991. So already this is what? Probably five months after she was murdered.

Again, we don't know the exact date when she was murdered. And then even after the body was discovered, it took police about six months to identify the body. Now, during this time frame, Anna's family got worried. her family back in Germany when they hadn't heard from her and they reached out to police in 1992. So here again, I was a little up in the air or it's a little bit of a gray area. I wasn't sure whether Anna had shared with her family that she was planning on leaving Ole and returning home. My assumption is she hadn't because they would have been worried much

quicker if there was some type of plan indicating, okay, I'm going to be home in Germany on such and such a date. It does seem strange that they would wait as long as they did to contact the authorities. But maybe they didn't talk all that often. They might not have, you know. She had been gone from Germany for quite some time. They lived in Denmark for a period. And then they had been in the states for quite some time as well. Even back then, communication was a little more difficult than today. Yeah. You're not texting people on your cell phone.

Right. But it really wasn't that hard to make a call. Now, it cost a lot more money back in the day to talk to somebody in Germany. Unless you had your world card, long distance card, world com or whatever it was called. A calling card. A calling card. Yeah. Yeah.

I think there were other companies, but I get what you're saying. MCI or something like that. MCI, WorldCom. Yeah, there was a bunch of them. But if you think about it, she was last seen on April 1st, 1991. No one contacts the authorities until early 1992. Granted, she probably didn't have a lot of family in North Carolina. I don't know how many close friends she had. It's just strange, right? That that much time would go by and nobody jumps up and says, hey, what's the hell's going on. Right. We haven't seen this woman in months. We better call the police and let them know. I wonder how long I could be missing before someone would notice. Well, the fact that we put out a weekly podcast. We're going to go with weekly? We're going to go with, yeah, a couple of days. You'd be like, hey, where are you? Why are you not here? Since you and I talk quite a bit and we have kind of a schedule to keep, it wouldn't take too long. I guess it would be

weird if I didn't respond in any fashion on my phone in a couple days. Well, it'd be very weird since you're glued to your phone like a 12 year old girl. That hurt, man. You are. Yeah. It's all because of business. It's all business related. But I do think it's somewhat strange how much time went by.

But it really was this report of Anna being missing that led police to check the fingerprints of the corpse that was found on the beach against Anna London's immigration papers. And they were a match. So right then and there, they knew who they had. But again, quite a bit of time had gone by. So police went to the London home to talk to Peter and Oleg, but they found the house abandoned and it had a foreclosure sign on. The pair had taken off sometime after the the murder occurred. They headed first to a campground in Tennessee and then eventually made their way to Canada. Because remember, Oleg had once lived in Canada.

Sure. So he had to have friends. Seemed like probably a natural destination at some point. Police were able to track them to Tennessee to this campground to find that they were already gone. So they missed them there. The pair was eventually found hold up in a miscellar. Asaga, Ontario hotel room. They were arrested on June 6, 1992. They had to go through some

extradition hearings, but then were shipped back to North Carolina. Both Peter and his father spent a year in jail before their trial. It was in July of 1993 that Peter pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter, and he admitted strangling his mother to death. The judge sentenced him to the maximum sentence of 20 years. And this was interesting because as I read it, it was much more than the state recommended sentence. Really? Which I think might have only been six years or something like that.

So the state said, minimum, let's give them six. Maximum 20. Yeah. And the judge said, you know what? You're getting the maximum. But that would come back under appeal. Okay. So we'll talk about that in a minute.

Ole pleaded guilty to accessory after the fact. He received a two-year prison sentence. So for his role, whatever it was, but it definitely had something to do with transporting and burying the body. He got two years. And he already had a year in prison waiting for the trial. And they did get credit for that. Right.

So he probably did another year if that and he was out. while he was in prison, Peter was interviewed by a Danish television crew for a documentary. And in this prison interview, it's so strange. You can see it out there on YouTube. I can't understand it because it's not in English. But really, what's strange about it to me is that Peter chose to paint the entire right side of his face, black. The left side completely normal. Okay. So to him, or I think the way he explained it, was black and white, good and evil. Ying and yang.

Or yin and yang. Or that too. Yeah. But you can see pictures of it online. It's a little unnerving. You can watch the video. Might not understand what they're saying, but just to see him, I think, is enough. Yeah.

I think it drives the point across. Yeah. He looks much different. The beard's gone. He doesn't so much look like. Mick Fleetwood in the 70s. Right. He's got a much different look to him.

A little scary. Yeah. There's something different. And I think the interview was a little unnerving as well. There was a Danish paper that I can't pronounce or I would say what it was who reported that a psychiatrist viewed the interview and said that Peter London ticked off 39 of the 40 boxes on the psychopathy checklist. Really?

39 out of 40. Wow. I mean, one more and you are at the top of the heat. Exactly. I know you had, what, 32 out of 40? I thought that was pretty bad. Yeah, I held back a little bit. Yeah, that's the problem.

If you're not going to be truthful, we don't get the full measure. Yeah, I got to leave something in reserve. But here's the thing. He does this interview. It's shown on Danish television. I don't think it was that hard. to tell that Peter London had something going on. Yeah.

Something that maybe you might not want to be a part of, but it didn't stop a boatload of women from contacting them after they saw him on television and saying, hey, or as you would say, how you doing? How you doing? I don't get it, Gibbs. What is this infatuation that some women have with quote unquote bad boys behind bars. I think that's it right there.

Bad boy. And he's behind bars, so he's not attainable. But so you can, I think, maybe they feel like they can flirt with it and know that they're still kind of safe. Yeah. Well, some of the, they're going to do more than flirt with it. Oh, well, there's that too. He started getting marriage proposals and ended up marrying a Danish woman named Tina in

prison in 1996. There you go. So I get it. Right. You kind of have a fascination or an infatuation, if you want to call it that with a bad boy who did something they shouldn't have done. You're writing letters back and forth, whatever. Yeah. But when you take the step of flying from Denmark to North Carolina to marry this man that you saw on television, you're taking it up a notch. That's a huge notch. And that's what this woman did. Peter's defense team appealed his sentence on the basis that the judge erred when he handed down such a harsh sentence. This is kind of what I was foreshadowing. And really, it was based on the fact that the judge said that the manual strangulation, the act of Peter using his hands to strangle his mother.

showed malice. Now, seems to me that it would show malice. How can you strangle someone with your bare hands and it not be malice? Yeah, it's not an absence of malice. I like that. It's not. Isn't that a movie too? It is. Paul Newman. Is that where you got it from? Paul Newman. That's all I know. But apparently the argument was that the judge shouldn't have used the method of murder as the only basis for malice. And again, I don't want to get into too much of the legalese and I didn't understand every bit of it. Right. But it was almost like you needed another piece. Yeah, he strangled the woman with his bare hands. We know that. But you need another factor to prove malice in order to give him this really harsh sentence, this maximum sentence. London addressed the appeals court. And he said,

quote, this case has made my mom look like less of a person than she was. My mom was my mother and my friend. She wasn't a raving drunk or anything. She had her problem. So that's his statement. But to me Gibbs, Peter London made his mom look like less of a person when he murdered her with his bare hands. Oh, yeah.

And then kind of just buried, left her body in a sand dune. But hey, what do I know? Yeah, yeah, maybe he didn't feel that way, wrapping her up in plastic garbage bags and putting her out there for the little crabs that come up through the bottom of the sand at nighttime. So apparently he didn't like the way that she was represented, I guess, in the case. But that was probably part of his defense team's job. Yeah, I think it probably was. But what he's leaving out is that he's the one that committed the murder. He took her life.

That's why they're even having the case. But the Superior Court did agree. with London's defense. And in 1995, they reduced his sentence to 15 years. So, I mean, it's not a ton, but from 20 down to 15. Yeah.

But there was a bunch of overcrowding. Oh. In the prisons in North Carolina. So four years later, in 1999, London was parole. Good behavior. I'm sure there was some of that involved.

So I think he did about seven. He did almost half. Yeah. Of the 15 years. he did about seven years for killing his mother. Sure. You and I would look at that and say, that doesn't seem right. It doesn't.

Or at least I shouldn't speak for you. To me, it doesn't seem right. And we will show that it's not right. You know, we'll prove it. He shouldn't have got out. Yeah, by his later actions, you can make that argument. After his parole, he was immediately given over to the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Department, and they deported him to

Denmark. Go back to your home country. Yeah. That's what they said. They sent four police officers on the plane to accompany Peter. That's a lot, man. It is a lot. I think it tells you something about what a dangerous individual the authorities thought this guy was. I mean, I think anybody that gets 39 out of 40 on the psychopathy checklist, you might want to take some extra precautions with. Got to keep a short leash on. But here's the thing. Once he landed in Denmark and the U.S.

authorities turned him over, Peter London was a free man. There was no parole. Right. Or really anything like that because he hadn't committed any crimes in Denmark. No. There's no authority on our part. Yeah. We didn't have, the United States didn't have any authority to impose anything on him as a

citizen of Denmark. And this is something. that will crop up later. Yeah. You know, the, the police in Denmark, they would take some heat for not keeping an eye on this guy. And maybe we'll talk about it towards the end of the episode, but it seems like they were in a tough position.

What are you going to do? You're going to put 24-7 surveillance on this guy? For what? He hasn't committed a single crime in Denmark. He did his time in another country. So what can, I don't know what you really could do. Please fly back after they grab a Danish. Sure.

While you're in Denmark, you grab a Danish. But can you really ask for a Danish? That's kind of wrong, isn't it? It might come off as you're asking for a person? Yeah. I don't know. I was wondering, what do they ask for when we ask for a Danish? Ladi'll let us know.

Or some of our other friends. What are they asked for? Well, I'm sure they have another word for it too. Maybe. Pastry? No, something very hard to pronounce if you're from the United States. There's one thing I learned doing this episode is that that language has a lot of what I would call strange rules. Yeah.

Right. Now we have some rules, right? I before E except after C or whatever. You know, whatever those. Is that the rule? You're asking me? I don't know. I think that's cool.

Yeah. Why would I even ask you? I don't know. Well, you're an English professor. Well, that's true. But they have a lot of rules. And they have a boatload of vows, like way more vows. like 20 vowels.

Are they ones that do like the W, but they put it as one U, but put the little dot on top so you know there's two U. I don't know. There's a lot of symbols and a lot of dashes and a lot of marks. So Peter's in Denmark, and he moved in with his wife, Tina. Remember, he's still married to a woman that lives in Denmark,

so he moves in with her. This is a relationship Gibbs that I think was very rocky. Now, it probably was a bed of roses while he was locked up, right? You and I have talked about this in previous episodes. What else does an inmate have to do except write letters, flowery letters, showering women with, you know, all of these things that they want to hear? Sure. Because he's got the time to craft the perfect message. And he's not going anywhere.

But once he gets out and, you know, he's living with. this person day in and day out, guess what? The real Peter London is going to come out. Is it that song you sing sometimes? The freaks come out at night. I hear you singing it sometimes when I'm coming in the studio a little early and you don't know I'm here. Well, because I know you're about ready to come over. That's why I'm saying. Nice. I walked right into that. But when I say the real Peter came out, what I really mean is there was a lot of fighting in this relationship. And I believe that Peter, was very abusive to his wife Tina. Peter and Tina did have a son named Nicholas in early 2000,

but it was really after the birth of Nicholas that the relationship ended. Peter was 28 years old, and he began a relationship with a woman, a 36-year-old Marianne Peterson. Mary Ann was a widowed sex worker who owned a brothel. And I've seen some varying reports on this Gibbs. I've seen some that have have said Peter was working as a bodyguard slash handyman at the brothel. But what is known is that Marianne had two sons, 12 year old Brian and 10 year old Dennis. And they lived in what I'm calling rodover, although the real pronunciation is probably somewhere closer to Wodo. Wodo. Yeah. As I tried to look some of this up, even the here's how you pronounce it videos. Right. I could not. understand. Wow. It sounded like wadov, but I'm calling it road over, a road over. And again, it,

it was reported that Peter was violent with Marianne as well and often stole from her. So this is not a guy that you really want to get into a relationship with. None of his relationships have worked. Why do you think that is? We know his background. Yeah, my guess is that he, He modeled behavior that he saw as a child on a daily basis, right? His parents fought a lot. He thought, okay, this is what you do. This is how you treat women. I'm sure his father didn't treat his mother very well.

His mother was an alcoholic. She didn't treat everybody very well. It was almost like we need to be contentious at all times. And I'm carrying that over with me into my adult life. Yeah. it's not going to be good for any of his relationships. Well, no, because he doesn't know how to have one. Not a good one.

Not a good one. Anyway. Right, right. Yeah. But then Marianne and her sons went missing. Their disappearances were reported on July 3rd. And I guess Peter told people that they were on vacation and that he was painting her house. Unfortunately, they were not on vacation.

No. Peter London killed Marianne and her two sons by snapping their names. by snapping their necks. Up close and personal, man. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's somebody really wanting to have control of the situation. I would agree with you, especially the way I look at it is they want control over the other person's life.

Yeah. You know, it's one thing to shoot somebody from a distance. I mean, obviously not good. But as you and I have talked, manual strangulation, using your hands. It's almost like a different thing. Very up close, very personal, you know, whether you're strangling or you're, you know, you're snapping somebody's neck or whatever it is. Yeah.

It's not like shooting somebody from 30 yards away. No, it's much more intimate for sure. Yeah, definitely. So after he killed Marianne and her sons, Peter went out. He needed some supplies, Gibbs. He has a big mess ahead of him because he'd made the decision. He had to get rid of these bodies. And to do so, he had to cut them up.

Yeah. So you're going to need some supplies for that. You're going to need an axe. You're going to need a saw. You're going to need cleaning agents because none of this is going to be easy and none of it's going to be clean. He used an axe and a saw to cut up all three bodies into smaller pieces. He then put the pieces of their bodies into. garbage bags. And like we've talked about in other episodes, drove around essentially placing these

garbage bags in dumpsters or in various locations. That's how he got rid of the bodies. Well, he had some experience, right? He knew how to take care of his mom's body. He did, but that was done in a much different way. Now, you could ask the question. Did Peter London learn from maybe what he thought of as a mistake in his first murder. Oh, I think so. Because he didn't cut up his mom's body and it was found. So now he's murdered again. Is he thinking, I have to do it differently.

I have to do it in a way where there's much less chance that the body's going to be found because that's what got me caught the first time. And I think also from the time that he spent in prison, he probably learned a few things. I wouldn't doubt it. I'm sure they talked about it. How'd you get in here? Man, next time you ever do something like that, do blank and blank. You should have done this, this and this.

This is what I did. I got caught anyway, but this is what I did. You know, not to joke about it. Right. But I think that's very true. We've seen it in a number of killers where, they spend time in prison and they use it as nothing more than almost like a higher education. Yeah.

They are learning from other bad people how to do bad things and hopefully get away with it the next time. Sure. It's a little scary. I mean, everybody's going to spend a tell when you're out, you know, even when you're out with your friends. You know, you guys talk about things you've done, right? Things not criminal. I was going to say, I may not be talking about the same thing. with my friends that you're talking about.

That's true. But generally, you're going to tell some stories when you're out, right? Sure. Yeah. Well, you're in prison and you're telling stories every day to try to entertain each other. I'm sure they're talking about their crimes. Well, first of all, what else do you have to do? Well, that's true.

There's only so many card games, checkers. Those guys don't know how to play chess, but. You can only lift so much weight. Lift so much weight. I can't lift anymore today. As the authorities began to investigate the disappearances of, Mary and her sons, they discovered that all three of them were lasting alive with Peter London. Okay, not good.

Usually not good. They also found some witnesses who said they saw Peter cleaning out Marianne's home after the time that she disappeared. And then they searched Marianne's home. And I think police were shocked, Gibbs. Because despite the fact that Peter had tried to clean up the house, Police technicians got inside. They found evidence of blood everywhere. Yeah.

I mean all over the house. They apparently found some human tissue as well. They found knives and other items with blood on them. In initial reports to the press, authorities called it a blood bath. They referred to it as a slaughterhouse. That's rough. And this was after the cleanup. This is why you have to burn the thing.

the ground. In the garage, they found tons of marks on the floor. Yeah. That appeared to have come from, you know, some type of sharp instrument striking the ground. Sure. Repeatedly. Cutting up the body. And obviously, we know that's, that's going to be the axe coming down. It's kind of gruesome to think about. Pretty tough, though. To use an axe and cut through something without damaging, let's say, garage floor. You're going to leave marks. Oh, for sure. We've heard about people doing it in the bathtub. There's just no way to do it without nicking something. You're going to leave something behind for the police to find. They found blood in Mary Ann's car. So I said, Peter tried to clean up the crime scene, but obviously he didn't do a bang up job. Maybe he should have called Molly Maids or somebody like

that. Yeah. But let's face it. To dismiss. of three bodies, that would be horrific to even carry out. And then on top of it, I'm not sure how in the world you would ever be able to completely clean that type of mess up. I don't know if you, I mean, it'd be so difficult. It really would be. Well, we know blood. Yeah. And you, you hear it all the time. Television shows, true crime documentaries. It's hard to completely erase. blood. I mean, cases have been solved by blood that was found in a, somehow in a drain. Yeah. Years later. How? There's been all kinds of stuff washing through there and somehow they still find a speck of blood. That's where I said, you know, burn the house down, but really? Yeah, stop people, stop telling people how to get away with stuff.

I still, make them buy the book. By the book, yeah. There's still a chance to find some, some type of blood in that. Well, you know, with today's technology, again, it has gotten harder and harder, I think, to get away with certain things. That's why I do all mine when I'm on the cruise ship on a boat, like the CrimeCon cruise coming up. Then you sink the ship and there's nothing left because the salt water in the ocean takes care of it all. Did you just say you were going to sink the CrimeCon ship? No. Because first of all, we're not going.

We're not going. But two, I don't need. what's the people that come busting through your door? The police? Well, know them too. I don't know who's coming busting through your door, but. You know,

some type of terrorist threat, you know, they come. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you did technically quasi-threatened to sink a ship.

Yeah. You might want to say that you're joking. I'm joking. I've retract. I, uh, all the above. Because if something were to happen. Oh my gosh.

don't even joke now. It would be on record. That would be terrible, wouldn't it? For you? Well, for everybody. But for me, it would not be good. Somebody right now is thinking, can we get a refund? I don't even want to go now.

I don't want to go now. In the search of Peter's father's house, they found a bloody axe as well as some of Marianne's personal items. And I hinted at this earlier. Yeah. You know, Ola is going to come back into the picture. We already know he was involved in the. at the very least the burial of his wife's body.

Right. Now he's somehow involved in this triple murder that has been committed by his son. He's going to help his son out of the situation. Yeah, I think he tried to. And I think it'll be proven later on that he did. Police arrested Peter on July 4th and charged him with murder. They also arrested Olai and charged him with accessory to murder. But here's the thing, Gibbs.

Both men were charged, and you can probably look at Peter's charge more so, despite the fact that the authorities had failed up to that point to find any of the remains of Marianne or her sons. Well, that's a tough case to prove if you don't have the bodies. And it was not for a lack of time. They conducted an exhaustive search over a very large area. It was said that they pumped water from a small lake, no luck they sifted through what was reported to be 10,000 tons of garbage that's a lot 10,000 tons wow Gibbs that is a lot of garbage and I wouldn't want to see the man hours that were paid to go through all that but despite all of these searching the remains of Marianne and her sons have never been found

and I mentioned this up front this was huge news in Denmark there were people interviewed by the press that said, you know what, you just don't see people being killed like this here. This kind of stuff doesn't happen here. It's getting ready to say the same thing, right? It's not a common occurrence there. You don't have that type of level of crime. No, I mean, we're jaded, right? To us, if you live in any big city and pick up the paper, you can, you'll see this on a weekend,

but not there. No. Now, they had their crime. They have their murders, I'm sure, but this was a very heinous murder. And it caught the attention of everybody in the country. There was a guy that worked for the film company that made the news story years earlier where Peter painted his face that said, why did the U.S. have to send us such a monster? But he was a free man when he came to Denmark and he is a Danish citizen. So, it's a It definitely appeared as though there was some animosity, some level, towards the U.S. for us shipping this guy back over to Denmark. Deputy Chief Superintendent Niels Kohler told the Associated Press, quote, this is an upside down case. In most cases, we have a body and we're looking for a murderer. Here, it's the other way around.

That's a good point. I mean, you know, you have this really bad guy. And you know he did this really bad thing, but you're missing the critical piece. The bodies. The bodies. And with those bodies, it makes it really hard to prosecute. Now, one of the things that the authorities in Denmark did was they reached out to North Carolina investigators. And those investigators traveled to Denmark to help provide information about London's earlier murder conviction of his mother.

the FBI office at the U.S. Embassy in Copenhagen also helped out. And when they began talking to Peter, this guy was all over the map, right, about the disappearances of Marianne, Denison, Brian. He initially said he didn't know anything about it. And then Gibbs, he concocted a story that had Marianne killing her two sons, him discovering this and being so enraged that he killed Marianne. This was one of his stories. Then in October 2000, he finally admitted in a preliminary court hearing that he killed them all.

He killed Marianne. He killed her two sons. But he claimed their deaths were an accident. He said that he and Marianne got into an argument over his suspicions that she was having an affair. The argument turned physical. And the two boys, Dennis and Brian, jumped on his back trying to defend their mother. London claimed that the boys bid him and that's when he flew in a rage. He broke both of their necks and did the same to Marianne.

But it was an accident. I was not really an accident. It's not the definition of an accident. Yeah, I'm sure he crafted it in a way that, okay, these kids were jumping on my back. We all fell down. I fell down on top of them. Yeah. Snap their necks.

And then somehow I accidentally snapped Mary Ann's neck. But again, what kind of story are you going to craft that's going to be credible to breaking the necks of three people at the same time? I mean, maybe maybe say you had a moment of insanity and you. Right. But that's not, that's not what he said. No, I know. He tried to say it was an accident.

Now, if it was one of the boys, okay, maybe you could make that argument. We're horsing around. Right. I fell over on top of him and something happened. But three people? Three people is not an accident. Then he said afterwards he dismembered their bodies and disposed of everything in an effort to cover it up because he was afraid. Yeah, that's what you do when you have an accident.

You mutilate three bodies. Makes no sense. No, it doesn't. And you know authorities hearing all these different versions are thinking, okay, that one doesn't make sense. You want to tell something else? That one doesn't make sense either. Let's try something else. So Peter London's going to go to trial.

He's in jail awaiting that trial when he got the living shit beat out of him. Oh, good. And I know you always like that. Apparently Gibbs, prisoners in Denmark, just like here in the U.S., don't take kindly to people that hurt children. That's good. That's the one good part about prisoners. In prison.

Yeah. not many as far as I know. Right. Good things about it. You're saying that's the one good thing about it. They do the things that a lot of people feel should be done. But couldn't do themselves. Exactly.

Yeah. I get what you're saying, you know, when you think about a pedophile or a person that murders a child, a person that sexually assaults women. Yeah. These are, as we've often said, on the low. or rung of the prison social network or however you want to say it. And there is in prisons a form of justice that they carry out against these people that they see as lower than them.

Now, they could be in there for killing 20 people. They could be. Doesn't matter. They're looking at somebody that hurts children or hurts women or whatever as low lives that need to be taken care of. Apparently they broke his nose with like a lead pipe or something. Yeah. They put it on him. Well, you know. I know by the way you're smiling, I can take it that you're very sad for him. Yeah, you know, good for them. So we get to his trial in 2001. And Peter London stuck with the story that the murders were an accident. Yes, he killed them. Yes, he cut them up. But it was an

accident. I don't know how you argue that the dismemberment was an accident. I don't think the axe slipped out of your hand a hundred times and all of a sudden they were dismembered. But I guess at that point, Gibbs, what else do you have to lose? You know, unless the authorities are going to offer you some type of sweet plea deal, which I don't believe they were, they had so much evidence against this guy. Yeah. It wasn't like he was going to be able to get out from underneath the murder. So by saying they were accidental, maybe he thought he could at least muddy the waters a little bit and get less time. Yeah, because the question of his sanity does come up at trial as well. You kind of hinted at that a little bit. London's defense team asked for a 16 year sentence. But at the conclusion of the trial, Peter London was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison. Now, you know, we here in the

US here somebody gets life and we think it's pretty routine yeah I don't think it is in Denmark I think it's a pretty big deal to get a life sentence I could be wrong about that I took that from from some of the reading and we've talked about sentences imposed in other countries before there's no doubt the US is pretty darn harsh oh when it comes to sentencing compared to many other places in the world right Peter's father, Ola, was sentenced to four months in prison, but it wasn't on the accessory charge. I think he got the four months simply for being in possession of the stolen items from Marianne Peterson. Yeah, I think he got off kind of light for his role in that one as well.

Yeah, it was a little fuzzy, to be honest with you, exactly what his role was. Okay, they found the bloody axe at his house. Did he know about it? Did Peter come over one night and say, hey, dad, I've done it again. Right. Take this axe. Hide it for me. Maybe.

But I don't know that. I never found it anywhere where it came out like that. Right. But it's pretty hard to explain both things, right? Why do you have this bloody axe that most certainly was involved in the crime? Yeah. And on top of that, you're in possession of items that were stolen from Marianne. house. And I asked myself, I say, Mike, if you did this terrible act with this axe,

why do you keep it anyway? I never understand that. Why? You can replace an axe. I mean, I'm glad they kept it. Sure, because that probably helped nail him. But why do you do it? I agree with you 100%. When we're trying to make sense of not only why people do what they do, I think that's very tough to make sense of. But you're also looking at what did they do afterwards? And why did they do it? Yeah. Right?

An axe costs what? I don't know, ballpark. Buy an axe for 20 bucks probably? Yeah. Maybe less at the places that you shop. Even if it costs $100. Yeah. Why would you ever keep it?

Draw it somewhere where nobody is ever going to find it. It's not like you need to use it again. Just go buy another one if you ever needed a new axe. I'm right with you. I don't understand. But again, I always go back to, okay, are these people really not that bright? Or are they so impulsive in their murderous fantasies or, and I'm not sure this guy had fantasies, but murderous rages that the things they do after the crime, they're not thinking through logically

the way that most people would. I think it's a combination. I think it is too. That, plus they're just not that smart. Plus, there's a little bit of, I think they're a little cocky or overconfident. Yeah, arrogance, maybe. They won't find out.

I'm good. I mean, you could say the same thing about last week's episode with Robert Lerner-Anderson. Yeah. Right? Those jeans that we talked about. What did jeans cost?

$30? Hey, $10 at Old Navy. $12 at the place that you shop. But regardless, $30, $100, $200, is it worth going to prison for the rest of your life? Get rid of them. Burn them. Sink them. And again, I don't want people to think we're trying to tell people what to do. We're dissecting what these people have already done and trying to make sense of it. The problem is you can't make sense of it because it doesn't make sense.

Right. Yeah, either they were too stupid, too confident or in the middle ground there, where they just were during the crime. They were one thing after the crime. They weren't thinking again. Yeah. So London's in prison. In 2002, he was beaten again by some inmates.

This time Gibbs, they hit him in the head with a frying pan. Oh, man, a good old frying pan. I mean, it's like a freaking cartoon. Something you'd see in a cartoon. In an old cartoon, right? Old cartoons were extremely violent. They were. If you think about it.

Tom and Jerry were beating the shit out of it. each other. Roadrunner and the coyote, Mickey and Minnie. I don't know what kind of message we were being sent back then as kids. I don't know. But one thing I want to talk about, you know, as we're kind of going into the end of this episode, the dynamic between Peter and his father was so strange to me. We mentioned it, right?

Ole definitely helped in the burying of Anna's body. Yeah. Not only Peter's victim, but his wife. wife, right, Olai's wife. Sure. Then years later, he just happens to have the bloody axe at his house. You can ask the question, did he know about the bloody axe? Was it put there by Peter without his knowledge?

I don't know. Or was he once again willing to help out his son? I think given the first murder in what he did, it's kind of hard to give him the benefit of the doubt the second time around. And, you know, it goes to that question. What are you willing to do for family? What are you willing to do for your own blood, your kid, your son, your daughter? How far are you willing to go?

Well, apparently he was pretty much willing to do whatever. Yeah. But it's definitely not normal father, son type of things to say the least. No. London was involved in a number of interesting things while he was in prison. Somehow Gibbs, he found two more women to marry. Well, there you go. He married a woman named Marianne Poulson in 2008,

the marriage lasted 11 days. But she can say she married a convict. She can. I don't know why she would want to, but she can. Then in 2009, he met a woman named Patina. And the two got married in 2011. They had a son in 2014. And one of the things I read Gibbs was that reportedly they were allowed to spend 48 hours a month alone

in some type of prison apartment. Oh, two nights, huh? Yeah. That's two full days and nights. Yeah. I wonder what they were doing. Well, I can pretty much guess what they were doing, but I don't think it's right. I don't think it's right for this guy who murdered a mother and two children to be getting

more action on the inside than some guys get on the outside. I don't like it. Me neither. You especially should not like it. I don't. This marriage last. lasted until 2017. But Tina later told a Danish outlet that the marriage was hell.

This is where I really got into trouble trying to translate some of these Danish articles. Right. She said that the entire time they were together, it was essentially all about keeping Peter happy. He demanded that she visit him daily. She ended up moving closer to the prison just so that she could go see him every day after the relationship ended, she said she never wanted to see Peter again and didn't want her son

to ever see him either. I guess it finally sunk into her on what she married. Yeah. Yeah. She was with this guy for nine years. Yeah. And what? All of a sudden realized that, hey, this might not be such a great guy.

Right. Had a child with this man. Now I know why he was in prison. You know? But Tina has since come out and said that she believes the prison system shouldn't have made it so easy for her to visit, fall in love with, and be exploited by a convicted killer. Yeah. I would ask, why did you even initially write to him? That's the thing.

Okay. Why? And I think she did as part of some kind of school project. Yeah. I think she was rather young at the time, to be honest with you. But then to keep the relationship going, to get married. to have a child with this person and then to come back and say, well, the prison system shouldn't have let me do all that.

Well, you made some decisions there too. I don't want to badmouth the woman. No, no, no, no. And I would say, again, these guys have nothing but all day long to figure out what their response is to your letters. So they have all the time in the world to make the most perfect. letter coming back to you that's going to make you go ooh and awe. Sure.

Because they don't have to respond to you face to face. They've got time to look things up. They've got time to, you know, massage that letter. Right. Be like the thing that just melts your heart when you get it, and that's really not who they are. They might ask Bubba in the next self. He'll proof-free. Yeah.

Maybe spray a little of his clone on there. How can I sweeten this up a little bit? Go all out. Yeah. The one thing I did find interesting is, I swear Gibbs. there are more articles online about Bettina. Yeah. Then there are about Peter London.

Wow. There are so many articles about her and what she's gone through. I guess because she's given so many different interviews. But then you have Peter changing his name a bunch of times over the years. Neals Schaffner to Barnia, Schoonbor to Thomas Christian Olson. Some of the last names he took from. his wives, not sure where he came up with all the first names, but why the name changes? Everyone knows who you are. Yeah. Everyone knows where you're at. It's not like you're out

among the people in the community and you need to hide your identity because you don't want them to know what you've done. Yeah. No, that's not me, man. That's, that's, I'm not that guy. I'm this guy. You're in prison. You're never getting out. Why do you keep changing your name? Yeah. Who are you hiding from? I could change. my name, but you already know what that name would be. I'd only change it the one thing, man. Rex West? That's it.

Okay. If we do another podcast, we'll go as Rex West and my concho. There you go. That'd be good. And we're talking a deeper voice. London also sued a number of people over the years for liable. Apparently he didn't like people talking bad about him. Oh, well, get ready.

Like, really, what are you going to say about this guy Gibbs that is worse than what he actually did? Right. And it's the reasons why he sued that grabbed my attention. He sued one journalist for calling him a psychopath, which, you know, when you score 39 out of 40 on the checklist. I mean, the test is already saying it for you. Yeah, the test is kind of calling you that. He sued a lawmaker after she called Peter, quote, as blunt as anyone can be.

Blunt. She just used the word blunt. And he sued over that. Okay. saying that was defamatory. He sued some journalists for writing that he was behind some kind of drug deal in prison. And there is something to that. He was caught a number of times with drugs in prison over the years.

It was like he was just trying to grab money from people. Maybe so he could get more ramen noodles. I don't know. Quick little settlement. Hey, I'll make this disappear. I actually think he did get some money out of one of them, which is kind of sickening. It is. Really?

I'm sure they just did it because it was cheaper than file in the paperwork to fight them. But Peter London is still incarcerated serving his life sentence. The guy to me gives is such an enigma. He's an extremely infamous killer in Denmark. But again, like I said, his crimes were not reported on much here in the U.S. So he may not be all that well known to our U.S. audience. Registered that 39 out of 40 on the psychopathy scale, managed to, to marry three different women in prison, even though these women knew exactly what he had done.

Yeah. And in the case of his last wife, I don't know, he really seemed to have a hold on her for a number of years. I mean, you're talking about nine years. And then you have to look back at the individuals he murdered. His own mother, for starters. Sure. How does someone murder their own mother?

Now, I get it. She may not have been the best mother. there were reports of alcoholism and abuse on all sides right he murdered this woman and her two young sons and then you have this issue of the two incidents happening in two different countries right right kills in the u.s is incarcerated gets deported and then very quickly i mean i didn't really talk about the time frame but you know goes back to denmark in 1999, by 2000, he's killing. So did he come out of the North Carolina prison reformed? I would say not. I would say not. And then you talk about the scrutiny that the police in Denmark faced after the murders.

Was that justified? Should they have been monitoring this guy 24-7? I don't know how they could have and or should have been. No, I think if you're free, you're free. Yeah, he did his time. Now, I think U.S. officials did tell the folks in Denmark, hey, this is a really bad guy that we're giving to you, quote unquote. I just don't know that you can look at them and say, man, you guys should have done this, this and this. Well, I also say if you're released in the United States come out of prison, there is some type of parole that goes along with it.

If you're released from a United States prison. Yeah. And yeah, in the United States. So maybe you could say, Well, he came out. They deported him. Maybe they should have been under their own obligation, the Danish authority, to at least keep on them for X amount of months.

What, at the very least, there were people that brought up the question. Yeah. And maybe even pointed fingers. There was also some lawmakers that took a look at the case of Peter London. There was a thought that they were going to bring back the death penalty just for this guy. Yeah. They didn't. But there was a thought of it.

But that's it. That's the case of Peter London. I think it's our first case in Denmark. And I know we'll be looking to hit some other countries in that area in the future. Yeah. Scandinavian. We may have to switch research roles, though, because it was a doozy. I think it would be best if the next one, I fly over there.

Okay. And get the assistance of our listeners. of some people on the ground. Yeah. Listeners on the ground. I'm sure they'll be happy to put you up. Yeah. Feed you and translate as you work on the case.

I think it's be a good thing. I don't know how your job is going to feel about that, but I'm all for it. Do what you got to do, man. Oh, yeah. I always forget about that day job. That day job kind of gets in the way. It does a little bit. All right, Gibbs, we have some voicemails.

You want to check those out? Let's hear him. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Sini from Northern Austria, in Finland. Have been listening for a couple of months. Good job, guys. If you ever drop out of US cases, we have our first FBI classified serial killer in Finland. He's called Michael Pentiela. So thank you once again for the great show and pitagher Elondekello ticketabasa. P.S. Can't wait for this Finnish accent.

Once it's tried to do one, but I get, I don't even know where to start. start. I tried there. I was like, I can't even have to like, I'm going to need some practice. Again, you're going to send me over. I don't know what it was, man. You tried to do something. Yeah. It usually comes out Irish, Scottish morphs into the Caribbean, dips down over into Australia. Yeah. And then at the end, it was just regular old Southern draw Gibby. Yeah. Just comes right back around. You're going to have to practice in front of a mirror. But that's definitely a case. It could be, you know, down the road, next Scandinavian case. Who knows? What perfect timing. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Carrie Colin from Phoenix, Arizona. I just wanted to give you guys a shout out for being basically my

favorite podcast right now. I work in an aquarium store in the mornings cleaning fish tanks, and it's kind of boring back there with nothing but running water, so it's good to have some stories going on. And you guys teaching me about a lot of cases that I didn't really know a lot about of before, and always loved the back and forth banter between you guys. You are wonderful besties, and I absolutely love it. I actually grew up in a time where Phil Hartman had been doing the later part of his career, and then he suddenly wasn't on TV anymore, and as a kid I didn't really understand what had happened, and I didn't know anything about the case, and my mom had very little memory

of what it was, but she did actually tell me what had happened and that he had been shot by his wife, and I hadn't found much more on the case, aside from, you know, looking it up on Wikipedia. So I was wondering if you guys were ever intending on doing an episode about him. That would be very interesting to me. So just thought I'd toss that out there for you guys. You're wonderful. And please keep doing what you're doing.

I absolutely love it. And you guys keep me going on weekday morning. So definitely keep your own time ticking. I love you guys. Have a good one. So it's interesting, Gibbs, because Phil Hartman has actually been on the list for a very long time. But over the last two or three weeks, I've been the time. thinking about him for some reason, thinking that we need to maybe do his case. He was one of my

favorites on Saturday Night Live. I mean, obviously, you know, he was on for quite a while. He had some really memorable characters. I just thought as far as talent went, he was up there. He was. With like the Will Ferrells and some of the best that were on Saturday Night Live. He really was. Hey, Mike. Hey, Givis. This is Breanne, or as you called me in episode 165. brand, which is so funny because Gibby was saying it like a brand muffin, which people actually call me brand speaks. Really strange. Anyways, I love your podcast so, so, so much.

I used to listen to another podcast and then you guys became my favorite. I was watching a documentary on Arthur Shawcross and he's an episode that he happened to be searching for his name in all my podcasts, and that's how I found your channel. I'm really excited. It just started becoming a Patreon member. I can't wait to continue to support you guys. Lots of love from Nova Scotia and keep your own time ticking. Oh, Nova Scotia.

Nova Scotia. Now, that's awesome. You know, obviously that was just last week. I'm not sure how you get Brand from Brianne, but I thought it was funny. And she liked it too, which is even better. It's all matters. That's really all that matters. Yeah. Appreciate it.

Hey, guys. It's Amagan. I haven't left a voicemail in a while, but I just wanted to say I'm so excited that I'm able to be back on Patreon for you guys. And I just want to say thank you for you guys being my friends. You know, I've been listening to the podcast for a couple years now, maybe two, two years, maybe three years at this point. I don't know, but, you know, you guys have always been so great to all the listeners. And, you know, I love getting to talk to you guys. And I love, you know, I listen when I go to sleep.

I don't know why for some reason it relaxes me. It's not a little crazy, maybe. But you guys have been such great friends to me. And I'm so thankful for your podcast and for you guys as people. So keep your own time chicken. That is so cool. We love him. She's been an amazing support of the show for a long time.

Yeah. The interesting thing about it Gibbs, because I talked to her, I don't know, this week, last week, was when she put back in for Patreon, she put it. she put it in differently. Oh. And I didn't recognize that it was her. At first. Or I would have said something when we did the shout-up.

Sure. So, all right. We had mail bag. Oh. Gibbs, we received one thing in the mail. Okay. And it's a piece of art. It's a nice piece of art.

It's both strange and provocative. Yeah. Basically, it's a mustachioed man staring at some naked women in various poses. but the poses all come together to form what appears to be a skull. Yeah. It is a fascinating piece. It doesn't look great on your wall. I'm going to put it in the studio.

Yeah. I mean, it fits what we do to a T. The problem is there was no card. Again, so I don't know who sent it. So whoever sent it, please let us know so we can give you credit. Yeah. Because it's amazing. Now, before we go, Gibbs, we want to play everyone a,

preview of a new true crime podcast from our friends, Tyler from Minds of Madness, and Justin from Generation Y. So listen to this short preview of their new podcast called Deadly Misadventures. Wondry Plus presents its newest podcast, Deadly Misadventures. Hosted by Justin from Generation Y and Tyler from the Minds of Madness. We'll bring you some of the most terrifying real life stories. of those who came face to face with death. Some who lived to tell the tale? While others succumbed to their deadly misadventures.

I'm going to do bad. It's never felt... Doing bad things to you. You know the odds. The stakes are high. Care to take your chance with Lady Luck? To hear all deadly misadventure episodes exclusively ad-free, just visit Wondery.com. Deadly to start listening now. Doing bad things to you.

Right, Gibbs, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.