True Crime All The Time - Phillip Jablonski

Episode Date: March 9, 2020

Phillip Jablonski was a serial killer who five women in California and Utah. Jablonski grew up with an abusive alcoholic father and it is thought that he patterned his later behavior from what he saw from his father. Jablonski's crimes were many and heinous in nature.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the life and crimes of this lesser known, but very brutal, serial killer Phillip Jablonski. This is a guy that was caught a number of times, served his sentences, but continued to commit crimes as soon as he was released. No woman was ever truly safe around Phillip Jablonski. How was it that this man was let out time after time to commit his crimes?You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise and donation informationAn Emash Digital ProductionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

And welcome to episode 173 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson, Big Daddy. What is going on? You just going to be Big Daddy? Yeah. Big Daddy. Yeah.

You seem like Big Daddy today. You've got a real swagger about you. Swag. Got my swag on. Yeah. You're wearing swag. You have a swagger. Yeah.

I'm good, man. How about you? No, I'm doing great. Yeah. I'm fired up about. these episodes. Yeah. Both T-Cat and Unsolved.

They're lit, man. They're lit. Okay, now you've jumped a shark for sure. All right, let's start out by giving our Patreon shout-out. All right. We had Joe Fresquez jumped up higher than our highest level. Sounds like a soda, soda drink. Yeah.

Up to $30. Thank you, Joe. Teresa Whitney jumped out to our highest level. Hey, Teresa. Gene Williams. What's going on, Gene? William Campbell. Hey, country singer, Campbell, Roy Campbell, no.

Am I off? Glenn Campbell? Glenn Campbell. Yeah, like a rhinestone cowboy. But there was a Roy Campbell, too. Wasn't he on he-haul? Maybe. I don't know, William's like, I don't know what that has to do with anything with me.

I don't think William Campbell was a, was a, or is a famous country singer. I could be wrong. He could be in Nashville right now. You know, speaking to Nashville with those horrific. tornadoes, man. Scary man. Yeah. Definitely feel for everyone down there.

That's a massive death toll. Yeah. Scary. Very scary. Yeah. I hope everything recovers well and, yeah, tough. We had Robin Anderson jump out of our highest level. Hey, Robin.

Catherine Campbell. Hey, there's another Campbell. Catherine Brunette. What's going on, Catherine? Robbie Rock jumped out of our highest level. That's a good name right there. Robbie Rock. Yeah.

Taking the stage. Sounds like Adam Sandler. character. It does. A wedding singer. His name was Robbie something. Maybe it was Robbie Rock. I don't think it was.

Anna Fulkenstall. Hey, Falcon Stall. Jasmine Camille Adams. Hey, Jasmine. Daniel Page, a.k.a. more than Gibby's equal.

What's up with that, Daniel? Huh? He's calling you out. Yeah, well, his name is Daniel, so I'm not worried. Rose Cardoza.

We just lost our whole Daniel audience. No, just that one, Daniel. Oh, yeah. All the rest of them, you're all right. What's going on, Rose? Courtney Norman. Hey, Courtney.

Caitlin McGuire. Hey, thanks, Caitlin. And Ronnell. Noel. Ronnell. I like that. Yeah. And then we go back into the Volkibs.

Yeah. This week we selected in Friender. What's going on? In Friender. Been with us a long time, not only a longtime patron supporter, but really a, you know, massive contributor. And a friend. And a friender.

Yeah. PayPal support as well. Lori Price. Hey, Lori. Shila Green. What's going on, Shaila? Elizabeth. Eva's nature tarapi.

Well, look, Eva's back. Yeah. And Christmas wish art. Well, not wrong with a little Christmas wish art. No, even in March. All right, Gibbs, right now we have an episode out on T-Cat Unsolved. It's on Brittany Wood. This is really a case full of twist.

and turns and you have the disappearance of this young woman. Yeah. That's terrible. Yeah. And we'll get into the details about that. And what little details we know about her, really. But then this case kind of delves into her family. And it gets very strange.

And very disturbing. Yeah. I mean, we're talking about sex rings and, you know, possible porn and just all kinds of strange things, some including minors. It's not good, man. No, it's not good. It's a very, it's interesting, but it's a very strange case. So it's an unsolved, but has a little bit of solved mixed in with it.

Well, there are people convicted. Yeah. Not technically for her disappearance or what happened to Brittany, but for this other things that happen around the case. Yeah. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I am. We are talking about a man named Philip Jablonsky, who over the span of many years, murdered a number of the women in his life. And some people that technically were not in his life, Gibbs, this guy was an abuser. And I mean, no woman involved in a relationship with Philip was ever safe. And really for that matter, no woman that ever came into. contact with this guy was ever safe. This was a guy I did not know much about, not heavily reported.

I don't think, you know, a lot of people have covered this case. Right. But the deeper I got into it, the more fascinated I was with it for a number of different reasons. Sucked you in a little bit. Yeah, it did. Philip Jablonski was born on January 3rd, 1946 in Joshua, California. It's a small town in SoCal located in the Mojave Desert. It's north of San Bernardino. Much of what's known about Jablonsky's childhood comes from the records of his later trial. So we're talking about people that testified either for the prosecution or the defense.

Right. That makes for some interesting information. The family appeared to have been pretty poor. Philip had a number of brothers and sisters, many of whom later testified to what their childhood was like. The problem is members of the family gave conflicting testimony. And we see that a lot when we have those bigger families, right? Some say, man, my mom and dad were great, treated me good. And then you have the other one saying, I don't know who they were with. Yeah, because I didn't experience that at all.

Now, sometimes I wonder if it's because, okay, in the situation where you had violence, you had abuse, was it directed at only a number of the children? Yeah. Some of the other children maybe didn't witness it at all. I don't know. Yeah. And sometimes the older kids will take the brunt of it because it's naturally or because they have it directed towards them to spare their brothers and sisters. Yeah, trying to keep their younger siblings safe. Right.

I think it's pretty well known that the father was a violent alcoholic who abused the mother and definitely abused the kids. There were some that said he carried a gun on him pretty much most of the time. Yeah. And he wouldn't hesitate to threaten different family members with it. He would point the gun into kids and say things like, you didn't deserve to be. born and you don't deserve to live. That's always nice. Yeah.

To hear from your papa. Your mama should have thrown you out. Throwing you away with the water. And she didn't. And I could kill you right now if I wanted to. Yeah. And you deserve it. And he probably sounded very convincing.

I don't think he was play acting. No. Yeah. If that's what you're getting at. This guy was said to have been cruel to animals. He would shoot stray cats if they, you know, wandered onto the family property, people testified that the father was sexually violent with his wife and had a habit of strangling her or suffocating her during sex.

Now, some people are into that. Yeah. And if you have two consenting adults that know what they're doing and they've both agreed to do X and sign the paperwork and sign the required forms. and NDAs, I don't have any problem with it. Right. And whatever you do behind locked doors. Choke me out if you want to.

The problem is none of this is consensual. No, this is cruelty. Yeah, this is cruelty for the sake of I'm in charge. Right. I'm the one with the power. And this is what I'm going to do to you to satisfy my urges. Yeah. That's not okay.

No. We all know that. Now, it was said that Philip took the brunt of the father's beatings, mainly because it was Philip who most often tried to step in and stop his father from hurting his mother. Yeah, well, I can see that happening. There have also been allegations of incest within the family, particularly sexual abuse at the hands of Philip's father against his own daughters. brutal. I mean, you can just see this stewing, you know. Oh, it's a stew all right. Yeah. It's a stew that nobody would want to eat. No. Gibbs, to me, this is not sound like the ideal family life at all. But, you know, like I said, there was conflicting testimony. And that's what was so strange about some of this.

There were neighbors. And at least one of Phillips brothers who testified that, you know, No, the father didn't abuse any of the kids. He drank. He was abusive towards his wife, their mother, but not the kids. And again, is that a situation where this brother didn't receive any of the abuse and maybe didn't witness some of what Philip got? I don't know. Sometimes people also have selective memory, you know?

That's true. We just don't know. One sister said that Philip was sexually molested by a neighbor when he, he was about four or five years old. But then another person got on the stand and said, no, didn't happen. So it is definitely a little confusing. But at the end of the day, no way was this a great home life? Right.

A great environment to grow up in. I'm not sure which stories are true and which are lies, but it does appear. This was an abusive household controlled by a violent alcoholic. father. Let's just say, that's a bad mix, man. That's, that's kerosene on a fire. Yeah. And really, most of the testimony sets this up as an environment where Philip Jablonsky would have developed what we know are going to later be very violent and degrading thoughts about women. Yeah. And you and I have talked about that before. You know, what do you see? What do you witness as a child? And in your mind, does that become normalized?

Because you're seeing it day in and day out. His male role model, his dad is showing him day in, day out. This is how you handle women. This is how you do it. And like it or not, he got to see it every day. Yeah. And I definitely think the argument can be made and was made at trials that he learned all of this. What we're about ready to talk about from how he saw his father treating the women of their family.

Yeah. I mean, it's our human nature, right? We learn from what's around us, good or bad, and we're going to pick up those habits. And if we're not careful, the bad ones will surface. Philip Jablonsky was said to have been a fairly nice kid by, you know, some that knew him. They said he was quiet. He was kind of a loner. He preferred to be by himself.

but also that he cried a lot. You know, this was a kid that many people said cried at the drop of a hat really over the smallest things. It was at school that Philip met Alice McGowan. The pair began dating in high school. After high school, Philip joined the army, and he served two tours in Vietnam. Philip and Alice married in 1968. After Philip got back to the U.S., he was stationed at Fort Bliss in 10,000. Texas. So Alice went to Texas to join him, to be with him. But Alice would later say that Philip had

changed during his time in Vietnam. And I think that is true of quite a few people. Oh, absolutely. That went over there and saw things that, first of all, they never wanted to see. Yeah. And then later on, they couldn't stop seeing. They couldn't get it out of their heads. I couldn't unsee it, That's for sure. But definitely, he was not the same person. And she specifically said that he started to become violent during sex. Gibbs, he would put pillows over her face during sex. He squeezed her throat with his hands.

Yeah. As though he was manually choking her during sex, sometimes to the point where she would lose consciousness. Now, does that sound like anyone we've talked about? out so far. Yeah, it sounds just like his dad, man. Yeah, it sounds like he's patterning his behavior after his father's. Then I do think it's important to mention that, you know, by this time, Jablonsky was a big dude. He was like six, four, 240 pounds. That's a healthy, that's a healthy guy. Yeah, he was, he was not a small guy in any way. Apparently, Philip also one time tried to drown Alice in the bathtub.

And it was only the fact that his mother was visiting their apartment that saved Alice's life. Yeah, I don't know how you wake up every day and want to be in that relationship. I mean, somebody has to put a pillow over your face to have sex with you. That's not good. Trying to choke me to death, not good. Trying to drown me in a bathtub. Not good. Not good.

So Jablonsky was hospitalized. after this incident. And it was at the VA hospital that he was first diagnosed with schizophrenia. He was discharged from the army after this diagnosis. And to your point, Gibbs, with everything that Alice went through, it's no surprise that this marriage did not last long at all. But Jablonsky didn't seem too heartbroken because really right away, he got involved at the end of 1968 with a woman named named Jane Sanders. And according to court documents, Jablonsky raped this woman on their very first date. Wow.

But she didn't leave him. She later said she was way too scared of him to leave. She didn't report the rape either saying she was too ashamed. Well, I mean, that happens a lot. That does happen. You know, it's sad, but it is. It does happen. Jane became pregnant.

And in July of 1969, the couple. moved to California. At one point, Jablonsky got a job training security dogs. But again, this was a relationship filled with violence and especially sexual violence.

Hell, Gibbs already said it. He sexually assaulted this woman on their very first date. It's not going to get better from there. No. No, it's not like he went out and had coffee, you know, and then build up the relationship. No, he said,

guess what, I'm going to rape you. Hey, maybe you're a stay around with me. Yeah, it makes no sense, right? To think that that would even work as the start of the relationship. Now it does, but it's only because this woman is so scared of him, she's afraid to leave. Fear will do that, but man. Philip threatened her with a gun during sex. I guess if she wanted to stop, right?

If she didn't want to continue, he would threaten to shoot her. He hit her. he suffocated her to the point where she was unconscious, and then he proceeded to violate her. It's basically like he did whatever he wanted. Because he knew he could. Yeah, with no regard for, you know, the other person whatsoever. There were so many instances of violence perpetrated by Philip against this woman, but the relationship lasted four years. I mean, that had to be the worst four years of this lady's life.

Yeah. She finally left him in 1972, but like you said, four long, nightmarish years. Think about how scared this woman must have been. Scared for herself, scared for her children, to not feel safe enough to at any point in those four years in the relationship sooner. And probably years after that, I'm sure she was always worried. Oh, I don't think there's any doubt that that type of abusive relationship, four years worth of it, it's going to change your outlook. Oh.

Your security level, your trust level, it's not going to be the same for your next relationship, the relationship after that, and maybe for all of them. Not long after his wife left him, Jablonsky committed a violent sexual assault against a woman that he knew. So this wasn't a woman that he was in a relationship with. The woman and her husband had purchased security dogs from this company. But they were dogs that Jablonsky himself had trained. I think he'd even been to their house. This is how he knew them.

He had worked with them on, you know, how to handle the dogs. But they were having a problem with one of the dogs. And Philip came over when he knew that the. the husband was going to be at work, he ended up putting a knife to this woman's throat and threatened to kill her children. If she did not comply with him, he raped her, but he also hit her so hard that he fractured her face. Brutal. He later sodomized her with her eight-month-old baby in the room. He didn't care about anybody but himself. No, and that's what I'm saying. This guy, I'm telling you, by the time we get to the end of this thing, this guy's already a monster.

Right. But it's going to get worse. This was extremely brutal. The woman only escaped because her dog started barking. Jablonsky panicked, right? That's going to draw attention, attention that he doesn't want. So he told her to bring the dogs in. But instead, she bolted from the house and ran to a neighbor's house.

This woman had no choice because. You know, during the assaults, Philip had made some comments to her that he had to kill her. Yeah. Because she could identify him. She knew who he was. She had to get out of there, man. She had to. But that's kind of a tough decision.

You're leaving behind your children. One of them is an eight-month-old baby. But I don't know what else this woman could have done. She stays around. They may all die. She only knew that there was going to be one opportunity to get out of there. and she had to take it. That was it.

Yeah. And I'm thinking she probably thought this is my one opportunity, not only to save myself, but to save my children. Because if he kills me, what's going to stop him from, you know, doing the same thing to my children? And I got to talk about this neighbor, Gibbs. So this woman shows up at his door and says, you know, this man's attacked me. He's hurt me. He sexually assaulted me.

This guy grabbed his gun. and he goes over there and he confronts Jablonsky as he's leaving the house. And he levels the gun at him and says, nope, you're not going anywhere. And he held him there until police arrived. Wow. Good for him. Yeah, he's kind of like a Rambo, John Wick, Jason born ass kicker. Or a Fergie?

Or Fergie. Yeah. Philip was arrested. And apparently told one of the arresting officers, I don't know why I did it. My wife just left me. Ultimately, he was convicted for this brutal rape, but Gibbs, it was the 1970s. And, you know, we've seen it too often. He served less than five years for, you know, what to me, and I think anybody listening

would say was a very heinous crime. Yeah. It's a slap on a wrist. It really is. So he gets out. And by February of 1977, Philip had a new woman. in his life, a woman named Linda Kimball. They moved in together in August of that year, and Linda gave birth to their daughter in December. So if you look at this timeline,

the relationship progressed very quickly. It also ended very quickly based on an incident involving Philip and Linda's mother, Isabel, who lived very close nearby to where they did. apparently Linda's mother, Isabel, woke up one night to find Philip Jablonsky. He's half naked on top of her holding a knife to her throat. Okay. Scary. And very inappropriate. Very inappropriate.

All of it. He told her that, you know, he was going to rape her. But then he said he couldn't go through with it because every time he looked at her, he saw Linda's face. So he left. Isabel never reported this incident to police. But she did tell Linda about it. And when Linda found out, she left Philip and took their baby with her.

Good for her. I mean, I don't know how else you can react in a situation like that. This is a man that you most likely know got out of prison for what was a very violent crime against women. Yeah. Right. You may be thinking that he's changed. and he's turned the corner, he's turned a new leaf. That kind of goes out the window when you find out that he's sitting on top of your mom with a knife.

Yeah. It's weird, man. It's all weird, bizarre, disturbing. But not once in my whole life did I ever think about mounting my mother-in-law. And I'm sure she'll be happy to hear that on the podcast. All the mother-in-laws I ever had, never thought about mounting any of them. Golly, how many of your head? I don't know.

I'm just throwing it out there depending on when someone ever listens to this. I could have a new one. You know, I don't know. You know, you're saying in the future, you will not do that either. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I think that's good for any potential mother-in-laws as well.

It's covering all bases. But Gibbs, you think about this, right? Linda ending this relationship, you know, this could not have set well with a man like Jablonsky. No, because he wants full control. Yeah, he's a control freak. I mean, that's part of what he's into. When Linda stopped by the apartment, they had shared on July 16th. She came by to get some things. Philip Jablonsky attacked and murdered her. Linda Kimball was 29 years old. Her body was found inside the apartment later that same day. Her hands and wrists were bound. She had been beaten, stabbed, and strangled. Her top had been pulled up and her pants and underwear had

been pulled down, indicating that she had likely been sexually assaulted. The medical examiner's report listed her cause of death as asphyxiation. Well, probably not too hard, right, for police to figure out who their top suspect was. Right. They knew who lived there. It wouldn't take them long to run his name and figure out that, oh, yeah, this guy just got out of prison for a very violent crime. Yeah, very similar. Similar. It wasn't a murder, but it was a very violent crime. All right, Gibbs, let's take a quick break to talk about Sakara.

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It read, killed to date Linda Kimball, common law wife. I told her she would never raise Megan alone or leave me a lot. She begged me not to kill her. You screamed, but it was cut short. Pretty damning piece of evidence to keep on yourself. And you wrote it. Exactly. To have that on your person and they find that?

It's not going to look good. Oh. So he was extradited back to. California. At his arraignment, he pleaded innocent to the charges of murder against him, but he was also facing charges in San Bernardino County, charges of assault with a deadly weapon, and attempt to commit murder. Because police learned that three days after Jablonski murdered Linda, he went to the home of a woman who was advertising a stove for sale. He acted like he was interested in buying the stove.

Right. He put a knife to this woman's three-year-old son and said that he was going to kill this boy. If she didn't do exactly what he said, he took the woman into her bedroom and gives with her children in the room. Yeah. Made her undress and then knocked her unconscious. He assaulted her, robbed her, and then he left. All the while the kids were sitting there.

unimaginable to see someone do something so heinous like that to your mother as a small child. Police later tracked one of this woman's stolen credit cards. And they figured out that Philip had used it while he was on the run to buy gas. So again, not too hard to link him to this murder. In December 1978, Philip pleaded guilty to his wife's murder. But as part of a plea deal, it was to second degree murder. In March of 1979, he was given the maximum sentence, seven years. Maximum.

That was the max. Wow. Seven years. Seven years for killing somebody, huh? Mm-hmm. Because it was second degree murder. Because he pledded down to second degree. And what amazed me about this was when the judge was talking, you know, he knows.

that Jablonsky had a pattern of violent conduct. He talked about his prison stint that he had already done for rape, but I think his hands were tied. Seven years was the max that he could give. Now, later that year, Jablonsky was convicted of the assault, the robbery, and attempted murder charges in San Bernardino County.

He received a sentence of six years and eight months. to be served consecutively. Well, that's good. That part is good. So really, if you look at it in total, he was given 13 years, eight months, minus time already served. But I think if you look at them separately, right, to me, these are tough sentences to square with the crimes he committed. Oh, absolutely.

Seven years for murder. And really, just a little bit less than seven for attempted murder. assault, robbery. I mean, what's to keep somebody from wanting to do that stuff? If, oh, you're going to do four years for rape. You're going to do seven years for second degree murder. You're going to do, you know, five, six years for this. You know, the risk is not that great.

Yeah, and maybe we'll talk about it towards the end of the episode. I think some things have changed, right, in the law. Judges now, in a lot of cases, have a little bit more discretion at when it comes to sentencing. Yeah, there are guidelines, but they have some more discretion. The other thing I found, though, is that in another heartbreak for Linda Kimball's family, her brother Michael, who was an army specialist, was murdered in 1979 by a jealous ex-husband of a woman that Michael was seen. He was killed just two days before he was set to fly out overseas for duty. Man, Gibbs, you talk about a lot of loss for one family in a very short amount of

time. Yeah, it'd be rough to get over. So this guy's in prison. He's serving out his sentences, but, you know, Gibbs, he needs a little companionship. So he put out a personal ad in the newspaper. I don't really understand how a prison inmate goes about that, but he was able to get it done. maybe back in the late 70s, early 80s, that was something that prisoners were able to do. I wonder how that ad reads. And maybe they still are, I don't know. How do you think that ad reads? 64, 240.

I have a very small but quaint apartment. Always in control. Always in control. Like staying in, curling up with a good book. Yeah. But his ad was answered by a woman named Carol Spadone. in 1980. The two corresponded for a while.

They developed a relationship, right? They began writing. Eventually they began talking on the phone. And it progressed to the point where they got married at San Quentin in 1982. I think Johnny Cash was there. He sang a song. Did they have bad water there too? I'm sure it wasn't great.

Yeah. It's not like they are going out of their way to put a top of the line water filtration system so that the inmates have sparkling clear water. Hey, that water looked nasty in that movie, man. I'm sure it is. It's not supposed to be a day spa. No, but they try to make it that way. Sometimes, sometimes.

Yeah. And gives, I know we've talked about this in the past, but it's still something that I find myself having a real hard time, wrapping my head around, people developing relationships and getting married, to violent offenders in prison. Yeah, I don't understand it at all. It's like, did you not get his whole file and read it, you know, somehow?

Did you not ask him what he did, why he's in there? And what are you doing now so that will never happen to somebody in the future? I mean, I don't know what kind of change they would make. She definitely knew what he was in prison for. Now, I don't think she had his file. she probably didn't have the particulars, I believe what he told her was that he was involved in a domestic dispute with his common law wife, his girlfriend, or however you want to put it, and it ended with her death.

Yeah. That's how I assume he spun it. See, the problem with these type of correspondence is that these guys and gals that are in prison, they have all day to think about what to write you or what to type you on. today on computers all day, the craft it, sure, think about it, recraft it, and then send it. So it sounds like they're just so into you. They know everything about you because, well,

they've taken the time to read everything you said and digest it and then kick it back to you. So now you think, this is my soulmate, you know, they're just playing you because they don't have anybody else. They don't have anything else to do all day. Well, yeah, that's what I was going to say. They don't have anything else to do. so their sole purpose can be to make you feel great about yourself. Yeah. It really can.

Yeah, I mean, I think that's a problem even today with a lot of these online relationships is you don't know what you really have on the other side because you're not talking to the person. You're getting a delayed answer to a question. And you could be getting catfished. You could be getting catfish. You try to catfish me. You had me going for a long time, too. At one time, tilapiaed you, too.

which is a totally different thing. Yeah, that's, we can't even talk about that. That was really disturbing. Embarrassing, actually. For you? Yeah, for me. Yeah, I guess for me, I just wonder, right? How does someone look past the fact that, let's take this case in particular,

this man has a history of extreme violence towards women and then say, yeah, that's the man I want to marry and spend the rest of my life with. Yeah, I'm with you. I don't get it, but I know people do it. You know, some do it for religious reasons. They write thinking that they can save this person. Some people do it for different motives. I know like that Jodi Arias, she receives some of the most male correspondence.

Oh, I'm sure. Then normal people receive. I'm sure. So. And it's interesting you say when you bring up religion because this is not the only pen pal situation we're going to talk about. And I think all of them to some degree came through some type of religious program. Yeah. Where they, people were given names of inmates and said, here, you can help them or something like that. And if you're an inmate, you want that because you're bored. Sure. Two, you're hoping that. Maybe somebody

put a little money into your account. Always. Right. And three, maybe you're hoping for some, uh, photos coming through the dirty pictures. Yeah. Yeah. I think the, issue with Carol Spadone was that Gibbs at some point, whatever feelings that she had, they changed. She became fearful of Philip Jablonsky, which, let's be honest, she should have been from the very begin. Sure. Maybe it had something to do with the fact that in 1985, Philip tried to strangle his mother with a shoelace during a prison visit. Apparently, he, he, brought this shoe lace in to wherever they were, you know, visiting because he was upset that Carol had not made the trip with his mom. So what do you do? Pulled out of his ass. I didn't get where he was

actually hiding it. Yeah. I don't think a shoelace is probably that hard to hide compared to a knife or a shiv or a shank or something like that. Definitely adds to the pulled out of your ass scenario. But here's the thing that really got. me. Philip was like six months away from parole, being parole. I really don't think he was stable. Well, there's no doubt. And we're going to get more into his mental health as the episode goes on. But we already know, right? He's been diagnosed as a schizophrenic. But because of this attack, they gave him another seven years for attempted murder. So you and I kind of already scoffed at the sentence that he got, he wasn't even going to do the whole thing. He was about ready to be parole in 1985. Well, now he's got seven more years. The other thing that I really think is

that Carol's fears grew worse as the years went on. And Philip got closer and closer to getting out. Right. In the beginning, it's, there's nothing to worry about. This man's behind bars. We can communicate. I can come see him. We can even get married. He's not going to be out for X number of years. Well, as the years tick by, you start to realize that I'm married to this person and they're going to get out.

They're going to want to come live with me. It's like George Costanza, kind of, right? He liked having a girlfriend in prison because he always knew where she was. Didn't have to worry about her doing pop-ins until she broke out. Yeah, and then did the pop-in. But I think once she saw what he did to his mom trying to strangle. Yeah, I think that was the final straw. That really scared her.

I mean, she had seven years to disconnect and make sure that if he ever got out, he would be able to find her. Well, of course, it's not going to be seven years, right? Nobody ever does the whole thing. That's true. We know that. because by 1990, Jablonsky was nearing his release from prison. So he did about five more years. But it was at that point that Carol began telling friends, I'm afraid of this guy.

I think he's strange. I think he's weird. She started saying that she wanted to end their relationship. So for me, I think, why didn't you end it five years ago? Or why did you ever start it? Why did you even start it? But definitely, why didn't you end it at that time? Hey, I just saw you strangle your mom.

We're done. Bye, bye. Yeah, that's a good. It's a great question. I think because maybe there was no sense of urgency. Yeah. He's not getting out. So I don't really have to act.

It's not until he's about ready to be released that, uh-oh, now it's really hitting me that things are about ready to get real very quickly. But the breakup safer if you tell him. Well, he has five years to, you know, get over it. Stu and Ruminate and all that. Carol also told this to a friend of Phillips. This was a guy who had been an inmate in prison with him. So she had this guy come over to her house and get Phillips belongings and take them away. So apparently, I don't know if he had sent her stuff or if she had bought things in anticipation of him getting out.

But she's like, no, take it all. So you have Jablonsky thinking, all right, I'm about ready to get out of prison. I'm going to go live with my wife. Yeah. Hell, we've been married for eight years, you ever take? Yeah, we have a great relationship. It's not going to happen because Carol had already contacted Phillips assigned P.O. And told this person that she didn't want Philip anywhere near her.

She was thinking about divorcing him. But to me, Gibbs, over the years, Philip Jablonsky had to have had some inkling that Carol was backing away. It was reported by the San Francisco examiner that Carol never visited Philip without his mother present. She would not go alone. Yeah. And she did not attend 12 conjugal visits that he scheduled saying each and every time, that she was sick. Right. Well, if you got a headache every time, that's right. That's telling me something. And why wouldn't she? She didn't want to be there? No. So Philip got out of prison and he

learned a couple of things that made him very angry. Number one, his friend told him that he had all of his personal belongings that his wife had given to him. And then his parole officer informed him that he was not allowed to set foot inside San Mateo County where Carol lived. What is this guy going to do? You know he had plans. And now they're all wrecked. Well, he got his driver's license. He also acquired a 1965 Ford Fairlane, driven by Andrew Dice Clay.

Yeah. It's a Ford, and you didn't make any other comments about it. I'm proud of you. No, I left it alone. Yeah. I'm already in deep with the fiesta, the festiva. Just got to stop there. I don't have an issue with Ford in general.

All right. Just making sure because it's another Ford that starts with a F too. It does. But he also enrolled at a local college. One of the classes that he was taking with some type of automotive class in January of 1991. So in one respect, Gibbs, you can say, okay, he's trying to, what, get his life on track. He's trying to build something. what he failed to do was show up to some of his mental health appointments.

These were conditions of his parole that he attend these sessions. He didn't, nothing was ever done. So he missed him and they're like, oh, he missed them. Yeah. You know. Even though this is a condition of your parole. And it's a condition because it's a very important thing that he needs to have monitored. Definitely.

So he's out there living his life. he's meeting people. One person that he met and got to know it to school was a man who ended up selling Jablonsky a revolver and some bullets for it on April 20th. He's, we're getting into it. Philip Jablonsky is about ready to go on a killing spree. On April 22nd, he offered a ride home to a fellow college student. This was a 38-year-old woman named Fatima Vance.

She was a widowed mother of two, but he didn't take her home. Instead, he drove this woman to a secluded area where he violently raped and sodomized her. Then he drove her out to the desert outside of Indio, California, shot her twice, mutilated her body, and left her there. So he couldn't just leave her there after he shot her to death. He decided, let me take it another step and let me mutilate it. Yeah, her body was found the next day and it was a gruesome scene. You know, when I use the word mutilation, that is not giving the full measure of what this man did. He stabbed her everywhere.

He removed her ears, her nipples. And he attempted to remove her eyes from her eye sockets. Which is not easy to do as we learn when we did the, uh, Poppin sisters? Poppin sisters. Yeah. And apparently this woman wore a necklace and it had a little charm or something on it. And it said, I love Jesus.

That's what the charm said. Yeah. When police found her on her back, it was carved. I heart Jesus. An actual drawing of a heart. Yeah. Carved into her backside. He carved it into her back.

doubt, Gibbs, this was a very brutal murder. The day after he killed Fatima Van, Philip Jablonski went to visit his wife, 47-year-old Carol Spadoni. Carol lived with her 72-year-old mother, Eva Peterson. And according to some family members, the two had developed somewhat of a reclusive, eccentric life together. Howard Hughes. Howard Hughes. Not that. Oh, eccentric or reclusive. But it was said that they stayed at home a lot. Yeah.

They ordered compulsively from the home shopping network. Wait a minute. So far, I'm hearing you. Yes, so far this is me. Yeah, you stay home and you order off Amazon. They rarely had visitors. Also me. Yes.

But there were some other things that came out from family members about Carol. You know, I think she had some of her own mental health issues. She had gone through some things as a child. She definitely developed anorexia at some point in her life. Gibbs, I read at one point, she went from, I want to say, like, 5-8-130 to weighing 75 pounds. Oh, wow. Yeah, that's definitely, uh, she had a, uh, very, warped sense of her image. I don't know if that's that body dysmorphia or what exactly it was,

but she developed anorexia. And she had some issues growing up, but there was also some, I don't know if it was documented, but some thought that she had some mental health issues. Yeah. Going on. And maybe her mother did too. I don't know. A big chunk of the population does. Yeah. They do. They just don't go out and kill people. Right. You know, that's the difference. A lot of people struggle with different types of mental health issues. You get help. Some people take medication. They just don't have the urge to go kill people. Yeah. I'll just go buy 10 bags of Twizzlers and eat them all in 24 hours. You're self-diagnosed and a self-prescriber. Oh, always. Yeah. Yeah. And I played the role really well. I'm like, hey, Doc, I'm here and like, what do you hear for? Mr. Gibson. I go back and just switch roles back and forth. Oh, you don't actually see anybody. You're just playing both roles? Yeah. Okay. There's probably, I think there's a name for that. Yeah. Well, I'm that. I do very well, though. Actually, not that you care, but actually will use my other

accents. One for you, one for the doctor. Yes. I got you. Yeah. And sometimes the receptionist, because the doctor's just not ready to talk yet. But here's the thing. There was no doubt that Carol was scared of Philip Jablonski. I mean, this is something that family members later came out and said. One even said they offered to buy them a gun. Yeah. For their protection. That's how scared Carol was and she had a right to be. Very strong right to be. Now, what I do think is interesting is that if you look at the timeline, it's not like Philip got out of jail and went straight to Carol's house. He didn't do that. No. He waited seven, eight months before he struck. And I don't know why that was because he knew all of these things that probably set him off.

He knew them very early on after getting out. Well, either he planned it that way or maybe his condition just didn't set him off at that time. And he had somewhat of some type of control. Yeah, maybe. I don't know, but there was definitely a reason. And it grabbed my attention for why he waited as long as he did. But he's there at the house. And he slipped in and murdered both women.

They weren't found for a number of days after someone called police, concerned that they couldn't get in touch with them. And I think that's the trouble with, you know, being reclusive, not having a routine where you see a lot of people. Right. People don't grow concerned as quickly as they would with someone that they talk to every day or, you know, something like that.

Police found a very gruesome scene. They first encountered the mother, Eva Peterson. She had been shot multiple times. And Gibbs, one of the shots went through a towel, which was folded in her mouth. Another shot went through her.

her breast. She was partially nude and her body had been mutilated, her nipples, her eyes. I mean, very brutal. He was making a statement. I can get where you would say that. But what statement was he making with this 38 year old woman that he went to school with? He wasn't mad at her unless he was by proxy. He's mad at Carol. But here's a woman. And I'm going to take it out on her. You know, when you talk about the mutilation, why? What statement is he making by doing that to this 38-year-old mother of two that he only knows from class? So I think with Carol's mom, it was more for his own self.

Like, I'm showing you all. This is how I felt about what you did to me. You turned your back on me when I was in prison. I'm taking your eyes. I'm taking this. I'm doing that. Yeah, I definitely get where you're going. And there were some people that thought that her mother was a part of it, right?

Talking some sense into her, maybe saying, hey, what are you doing? Why would you let this man who's getting out of prison after being very violent for many years come and live with us? because hey, I'm here too. Exactly. So there were some people that thought that was a part of it, that he thought her mother was a driving force in Carol's decision. And there could have been a chance that maybe he forced Carol to watch him do this, to let her suffer. Then they found the body of Carol. She had been shot and duct tape was placed over her nose and mouth so tightly that it would have been

impossible for her to breathe. Now, I did read one report Gibbs that indicated this man had given her like what you would call an emergency tracheotomy. Have you ever seen that on a show or a movie where they use a knife and then stick a pen? Yeah, I've saved a couple of lives that way. I figured you'd done it in real life. Right. There were some reports that he did this, which may even further back up your theory. Now, I don't think he ever admitted to that, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility. Keep her alive to torture her either mentally

or through the physical pain of what he doing to her. Maybe both. One of her breasts was almost completely cut off. She had suffered multiple stab wounds to her abdomen, to her vagina, gives these wounds were so. so severe that her intestines were hanging out. And one report said that some of them were hanging out of her anus. Yeah. I mean, I'm not over exaggerating when I say gruesome crime scene. Yeah. Very

brutal. Sickening. There's an intensity here, right? And I do think it goes back to how upset this man was with Carol and her mother. Now, I still can't explain the murder that occurred the day before. I can't figure it. Maybe it's displaced rage. I don't know. Right. But I think these two murders are pretty easy to figure out, you know, where that rage came

from. But here's the thing. It didn't take police long to figure out who had murdered these women. They discovered a large number of letters written to Carol by Philip. They learned that he had fought. Eva signature on a $200 check and cashed it at a local bank on the afternoon of the murders. They just had to find him. So they issued a nationwide alert.

What police didn't know is that Philip Jablonsky was headed east and he was not done killing. No, he's just ramping up. He attempted to kill a woman at a rest stop in Wyoming. this woman was letting her dog out of the car to probably do its business or get some exercise, he pulled a gun on her. But she was able to get away when the gun slipped out of his hand. So very quickly, I think she got in her car, drove out of that rest area down the highway a bit to she could get to a safe place to call police. And the interesting thing is that police actually caught up with Jablonsky.

And they questioned him, but he was able to talk his way out of it by saying, I had the gun, I had it in the car. Misunderstanding. When I opened the door, it fell out. She got scared, but that was it. Yeah. And they let him go. Which, again, crazy, right?

Why wouldn't you at least hold them long enough to try to do some background on that? Yeah, I don't know. Maybe they just didn't have enough, but who knows? Yeah. He murdered a woman named Margie Rogers, who was working at a convenience store that she owned with her husband. He went into the convenience store, shot her twice in the head. He took off her shirt and bra and he fondled her breasts. And then he left.

So weird, right? I mean, it's just bizarre. Jablonsky was eventually arrested in Kansas on April 28. And Gibbs, on his person and inside his car, authorities found more than enough to put him away. This is not going to be some big trial that we're going to delve into. They found an address book that had both Carol and Eva's names in it. And next to their names, it said death, April 23rd, 1991. This was very important because the details of their death had not been made public.

And we've seen these little love notes of his before. Sure. Sure. He's got a record of it. But when you get to trial, right, if you can prove that there's only one person at that point in time that could have known when these two people died, it was the killer. Yeah, as Sherlock would say. They found a 22 caliber revolver in his car.

the ballistics would later match to the murders. They found a leather belt in the car, and it had some writing on it. It said, Carol Jablonsky, 423, 1991. Eva Peterson, 423, 1991. Fatima Van, 42291. Elderly woman, that's all it said, elderly woman, Edie Thome and Anne Skipper. This was what was written on this belt. What we know the elderly woman was Margie Rogers.

He wouldn't have most likely known her name. So he listed her on the belt as elderly woman. That is, I mean, interesting, right? Because he really fills the need to make sure he tracks all this. And it's a compulsion that we know a lot of serial killers have. Yeah. Right? To write things down to take trinkets.

It's a way to. to relive later on. Go back in their mind and think about, oh, yeah, I remember how I killed that one and this was what I did. We know the first four names, but this Eddie Thome and Ann Skipper, the last two names, they were pen pals of Philip Jablonsky from his time in prison. And police speculated that he was headed out east. One lived in Kentucky.

The other lived in Tennessee. he was on his way, Gibbs, to kill both of these women. That's why he already had their names on the belt. This guy had a death belt. Yeah. Where he was keeping track of everyone that he killed. And he was putting their names on in advance. They also found a tape recorder.

And when authorities played the tape, they were floored. On the tape was Philip Jablonsky. basically narrating everything that he had done in very graphic detail. I mean, everything. We're talking about all of his murders, all of his sexual assaults, all the carnage and the mutilation that we've talked about. He laid it out. Explain it all.

The tape left nothing to the imagination. And that's why I say there's really no reason to talk about the trial in detail. they had enough evidence to put him away. It wasn't going to be a question of guilt. In September 1991, Philip pleaded not guilty to all of the charges against him. He also later pled not guilty by reason of insanity. He's going to try it all. Yeah, you know, let's throw some things out there.

Jablonsky's trial didn't happen until 1994 because of some legal wranglings really around the issue of him. his mental competency to stand trial. He was ultimately found competent. And in 1994, a jury found him guilty for murdering both Carol Spadone and Eva Peterson. They also found that he was sane at the time that he committed the murders. So out goes the not guilty by reason of insanity. Right.

Later that year during the penalty phase, Jablonsky was sentenced to death on. both counts. Now, he was charged with the murders of Van and Rogers, but Gibbs, I couldn't find anywhere where they actually took him to trial. And it was probably, I'm thinking, one of those cost-benefit scenarios where they figured, hell, this guy's already going to, you know, die in prison. He's got a death sentence. Right. What else can we do to him? Why spend the money? Why put the family through all that? just go ahead and move forward with what they already have on the books. Yeah, I'm sure they weighed at all, but I could not find anywhere where they actually took

him to trial. Philip Jablonsky died in late December 2019. So really just a few months ago. He was 73 years old and he had been on California's death row for almost 25 years. It does seem Gibbs like many death row inmates, especially in California. seem to die in prison before they are actually executed. Yeah. Now, it definitely varies by state.

That was Texas who had been over already. Yeah, Texas seems to move somewhat quickly. But I think it also has a lot to do with, you know, how old is the person when they're convicted and sent to death row? Because we know just naturally, it takes a good number of years to move through the appeal process. There's a lot of hoops to jump through when somebody's given a death sentence. And rightfully so, right? You and I have talked about this before. There have been a number of wrongful convictions where people were about ready to be put to death, come to find out they didn't

even do the crime. Yeah. But unlike those. This is not one of them. No. This is about as true as you can get with the information, right? You have his own recording. You have his own notes. There's no denying that he did this. Well, he tried to deny it, sure, but I think any reasonable jury would have looked at the mountain of evidence they had. Right. There was no way that he was not going to be convicted. So gives, as we're wrapping up, you know, we really didn't talk much about the trial. like I said, they had a ton of evidence against him. But a big part of the trial had to do with his mental help. You know, both sides had experts that agreed, actually, that Philip Jablonski suffered from

chronic schizophrenia. I think that part is very hard to argue that he didn't. It was pretty well documented. We mentioned it all the way back to 1968. Sure. he had also received some similar diagnoses by prison psychiatrists over the years. Now, obviously, it wasn't to the point where the jury considered him not saying at the time he committed his crimes.

But there's no doubt. This guy had some pretty serious mental health issues. To me, you add that on top of what I thought, and I think you and I both talked about. were some rather light sentences for very serious crimes. And it's tough for me to think that this guy was actually out walking the street in 1991. Yeah. And had the ability to commit four additional murders given his previous record, given everything that had come before.

One bad dude, man. He was. He really was. He had a terrible childhood. He did. I'm convinced of that. Yeah. Which didn't help him.

No, no way. And then, of course, he went off to serve. And for sure, that had to mess him up somewhat when he came back. Yeah, I think there was a lot of people. And it really wasn't just his first wife. I think there were other people that knew him that said, something happened. Yeah. Over there.

Because the guy that returned to the United States, it was not the same. guy that they had known. But there were many guys that came back from the war that had some major issues, but they didn't go on killings, breeze. Well, not all of them. The majority of them did not. Right. And to your point, you and I have talked about this before, there are so many people that had jacked up childhoods. Yeah. And they made it through. It didn't cause them to become killers. So, you know, it's something that we point out because it's interesting. It's part of someone's history, right? Yeah, he did have a jacked up childhood. I do think he modeled, learned, you know, some of his behavior that then he later carried out from his father, what he saw from his father.

But to me, Gibbs, when I look back on this case, the question is, who failed or what failed? Was it the judges? Well, it didn't seem to be to me because I think at that point they were bound by some sentencing guidelines, right? Yeah. So then you say, okay, was it the parole board? Well, you could argue that. Sure. That maybe they shouldn't have let this guy out.

But he was going to get out. He didn't have a life sentence. Right. He was going to get out at some point. Did they let him out a few years early here and there? Sure. Sure. Yeah.

You can ask the question. okay, what about the various mental health professionals that examined him? Okay, you can make that argument as well. Should they have done something? Could they have done something? Or was it just a confluence of factors that all culminated in this guy being allowed out on the street? I kind of lean towards that because we've seen it in so many other cases. There's a lot of confluence going around. I knew you're going to try to use that word. It's really hard to pick one thing.

Yeah. And say, okay, this is the reason why this person was allowed out to kill later. You know, there were sentences that just didn't seem long enough compared to the crimes he committed. But again, I said, I think one of the things back then was that judges, just didn't have enough discretion in sentencing. You can analyze it all. But at the end of the day, it was Jablonsky.

Yeah, very bad guy. He was a bad guy. He made the decision to commit these murders. That's it, Gibbs. That's it for the story of Philip Jablonsky. You know, like I said, a guy that I really didn't know much about. But after I got into it, wow, I can't believe that this case or, you know, this person and his victims really didn't receive more coverage than it did because this guy was

brutal. A monster. He was a heinous, heinous killer. We've got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Yeah, it's here. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Josh out in Las Vegas, Nevada.

First off, a new listener. Well, I mean, I just made it through all of TCAT. Now I'm starting to T-Cat and solve. I just want to say that I was like. loving the podcast, but what really made me fall in love with the podcast is that you guys are the first podcast outside of Nevada. That actually pronounces the state correctly. I just wanted to say that I appreciate everything you guys do, and I'll forward to hear from you guys more and keep your own time ticking. That was probably you, Gibbs.

You know, you're very good with pronunciation. Yeah. Neveda is a very interesting state. Neveda. Nevada, Oregon. Oregon. Is that how you say? Oregano.

Oregono. Illinois. Yeah. But we appreciate you listening. We really do. Hi, Mike King of Bee. My name is Jesse. I'm in Dahunga, California, just outside of L.A.

I wanted to tell you guys that your show's flipping awesome. I love it. It makes for a great commute. And I've been listening to you guys for about two years now. makes an hour and 45 minutes each way a little bit more bearable. I'm originally from Connecticut, and in 2016, I was living in Simsbury, Connecticut, and I just wanted to make a case suggestion for the case of Melissa Milan. Unfortunately, the area she was murdered on or in was a bike trail that I frequented,

and she was murdered actually about 20 minutes after I had left and it was just really eye-opening and really scary to have something hit so close to home. Love your show. Love the podcast. You guys are great together. I'm neither team Gibby nor team Mike, just team T-Cat. Keep your own time taken. Keep it going and thank you.

Wow, thanks. Yeah. Thank you very much. She went from one extreme coast to the other, didn't she? Yeah. The East Coast, West Coast, nothing in between. Now, my math is not great, but even by my calculation, that's a three and a half hour drive every day. That is a hell of a commute.

Man, I don't know if I could do that. You know, I don't even want to work three and a half hours a day. Do you even? No, barely. Yeah, I didn't think so. And you work even less with a real job. Hey, now, easy. Easy.

Easy. But that's a case we're to have to look into. No, definitely, because I'm not familiar with it at all, so we'll definitely have to look it up. Hi, this is Aaron from Dallas, Texas, and I feel so dorky calling and leaving a voicemail, but I just just figured that

a good episode for you guys to cover would be Amarillo, Texas's story of Brian Dinneke, the murder of Brian Dinneke. And they did like a little Netflix thing called Bomb City about it. It's really good, really interesting case and

you know, if you look into it it'll probably make you angry with what happened. But another one for your unolved episode, that'd be a good one, is Missy Bevers. A&M. She was in Liseon, Texas, like you're a little bit right

outside of Dallas, Texas. And it's a really interesting unsolved case, but sorry, thanks, nice. All right, thank you. Yeah, the first case not familiar with, the second case I am. Yeah. But, and I've not seen, that on Netflix, which is surprising, because I feel like I've seen everything on Netflix. There's a lot of things out there. So I'll have to check that out. Thank you.

This is Linda. I'm calling from Napa, California. Just wanted to say how much I love your podcast, and I'm making my first message because I just caught up. I'm literally on the episodes that you guys just did this last week, so I'm super excited. Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for making the podcast. I really enjoy it. I listen to it at work every single day. I don't, I guess I'm going to have to go to unsolved now because I'm all caught up. So anyway, I am team everybody. I love you both so much. Givie makes me crack up. Just his commentary is so funny, but I love the banter between both of you. So keep it up and keep your own time, ticket. Napa, drink some wine. Wine country. So,

I've heard it where people have said, okay, I caught up. That was a good feeling. I've also heard it where people have said, oh, I caught up. Now I have to wait until the new one comes out. But then we have the ones that get caught up and they go back and relisten all over again. Yeah. Or join Patreon and we have what, 20 additional episodes and a whole bunch of other stuff on there. Yeah, it's definitely worth it.

All right, gives we had no mail bag. What? No mail bag. No mail bag. Nobody likes you, man. They're not sending you stuff. Why is it me? I have to blame somebody.

You can't blame yourself. So no mailback this week. All right. Buddy, that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.