True Crime All The Time - Raffi Kodikian

Episode Date: July 11, 2022

In July 1999 two best friends set off for a cross-country road trip together. After a camping trip in the New Mexico desert went horribly wrong, one of them didn’t survive. Raffi Kodikian told the park ranger who came to his rescue that he killed his best friend because he thought they were dying of dehydration. Investigators didn’t believe his story and charged him with murder. Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Raffi Kodikian and the murder of David Coughlin. These two guys were the best of friends. Even investigators working for the prosecution said that when they interviewed people who knew them. Raffi always maintained that David asked Raffi to kill him. He also said the plan was for them to die together. The authorities had a hard time believing things played out as Raffi said they did but as one official said, "you don't get to kill someone in New Mexico even if they ask you to."You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 291 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about yourself? I'm doing very well. How was your fourth? Man, it was good. Yeah. I hope everybody had a really good one. Mine was great. Some of our Canadian listeners messaged me to say that they just had their kind of Independence Day or whatever. Canada Day. Canada Day. Yeah. Was it on the first? It's on the first. Just a few days before ours.

I wasn't even aware of that, to be honest with you. So a lot of people celebrating this, you know, in the past week. My birthday's come and gone. Yours is coming up very quickly. Really quick. 7-Eleven, man. 7-Eleven. Yeah, I get a free slurpee.

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So thanks to all of you as well. Gibbs right now on true crime all the time unsolved. We're tackling one of the most infamous unsolved murder cases. That's the case of Marilyn Shepard and the subsequent trials of her husband, Sam. Yeah, it's going to be a interesting one to do. jump on over there. Yeah, a lot of people have wanted us to cover it for a very long time. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time?

Man, I'm excited. We're talking about Rafi Kodikian and the murder of David Koffler. It was in July 1999 that two best friends set off for a cross-country road trip together after a camping trip in the New Mexico desert went horribly wrong. One of them didn't survive. Rafi told the Park Ranger who came to his rescue that he killed his best friend because he thought they were dying of dehydration. Investigators didn't believe his story. And so they charged him with murder.

So this is a much different type of episode probably from the normal true crime all the time. But extremely interesting. I think people will really enjoy it. Yeah, I found it very intriguing. 25-year-old Rafi Kodekian and 26-year-old David Coughlin were college best friends. Rafi testified that he had known David for about five and a half years before his arrest. They met through a mutual female friend. According to the Carlsbad current Argus, he said about his friendship, we kept each other laughing.

That was a big part of our relationship. We'd often finish each other. other's punchlines. All right. Sounds like me and you. Yeah. I'm always finishing your punchlines. Okay. I appreciate that. It was said that both young men dated the same girl at different times, but it didn't seem to cause tension in their relationship. I just took it that these guys got along very, very well. Yeah. I mean, I think you kind of have to if you're going to go on a cross-country road trip. Yeah, because that can go aside from, you know, a death, which, we're going to be talking about here.

Right. But just a cross country trip or an extended trip with somebody, you know, I think I've said it before. I don't think you really know a person until you've either live with them. Right. Or you've gone on an extended type of vacation with them. Exactly. You know, it's one thing to see somebody at work every day.

Yeah. It's another to see them, you know, roll out of the John in their bath robe. You know, what do they like in the morning? What's their real hygiene habits? You get to learn a lot. You do. Real quick. Rafi got a degree in journalism at Northeastern University.

David studied economics at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst. After graduation, Rafi and David lived separately. Rafi in Boston, David in Millis, Massachusetts. But they spoke on the phone almost. every day. In their free time, they enjoyed skiing, snowboarding, biking, and going to bars and movies. So it sounds like they really had a strong relationship. Yeah. I think it was strong in college. It sounds like it remains strong after that, which is the hard part, right? Once you graduate, a lot of people start to go their separate ways. Sometimes it's hard to keep those college friendships

strong. The Albuquerque Tribune wrote that during school, Rafi worked as an editorial assistant with the Boston Globe for their living arts section. He worked there for two years. Raffy's co-workers at the globe liked him. According to Linda Matchen, a Boston Globe reporter Rafi was happy, energetic, and eager to please. He had a sweet nature, laughed a lot and was very conscientious. All right. You'd like to have all those qualities in a co-worker. Sure. And I think you recognize those in me. Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say in some coworkers, you just like to have one of those.

So Rafi graduated in 1997. And afterwards, he took a solo cross-country road trip. In 1998, he wrote a freelance piece for the globe about camping in New Mexico. Part of his article read, I was a afraid the excitement of the road had been run down, paved over, washed away. Still, I knew I had to travel that road to find out. He also wrote various articles on keeping snakes for pets. Apparently he owned a red tail boa. Okay. Now, I like pets. Yeah. Snakes are not my thing. Going to stay away from them? Yes. Snakes and spiders. You know, if you're into them, that's great. I'm not. I've had a couple of really bad. experiences with both snakes and spiders. Yeah.

So keep them away. Not keeping them as pets, but I know a lot of people do. Sure. But I want to talk about this idea of a solo cross country road trip. It's kind of been like a fantasy of mine. I don't think it will ever happen. Number one, I've been married for, you know, over 25 years. Yeah.

I've got kids. I just don't see myself going off for a week or two, literally by myself. But it has always kind of been a fantasy, you know, either with the motorcycle or in an RV, just do kind of maybe like a National Lampoon's vacation type of deal, but by myself. End up in Wally World? Yeah, maybe at the end of it. Yeah. If you make it that far.

If I make it that far. Rafi played drums in a band that performed in Cambridge and Boston, but he quit in 1997 so that he could travel. Gibb, you might have seen him. I don't know if you were at Cambridge at that time or you were probably already a high level professor. I was. I already moved on at that point. By that point in time.

Yeah. The Albuquerque Tribune wrote that Jonathan Pate, a former band member and editorial assistant at the Boston Globe, said that Rafi could fly off the handle if things didn't go the way he wanted at times. But a day later, he'd turn around and help you move. He went out of his way to be helpful. He was the consummate sidekick. You know, people can do that, right? They can get upset because they expect something from you, a certain level, but then they can turn around and, you know, level set and be okay with everything.

Yeah, you seem to be really looking my way. I am. I think you are accurately describing me. Yeah. Now, I don't know if flying off the handle is the right word, but, you know, I can get miffed. Let's put it that way. Yes, you can. When things don't go the way I expect them to go or the way I think that they should.

But you quickly forgive. Yeah. And then, you know, go on. Yeah. But there for a little bit. I can get a little testy. A little bit. After graduation, Rafi lived in West Roxbury, a neighborhood in Boston.

At the time of his arrest, he worked for the correspondence department of Massachusetts financial services and investment firm in Boston. He had recently been talking about cutting his long hair and entering what he called a new mature stage in his life. That's a conversation that neither you or I have ever had. No. Cutting off our long hair. I have never had long hair. His friend Colin Hesketh told the Albuquerque Tribune that Rafi was thinking about quitting and moving to Denver. Now, that's something you and I can both get behind. Yes, we can. Denver, I think, is one of both of our favorite places. Oh, for sure. We enjoy very much. David Coughlin lived in Millis, Massachusetts. He started working for the town of Wesley in 1995, while he was still a student

at the University of Massachusetts. He graduated in 1996. He worked in the selectman's office as a liaison between residents and city planners. He specialized in traffic construction. David was described is easy going but a hard worker. And I think much like Rafi, everyone who worked with him, liked him. They thought he was a good guy. In July 1999, David resigned from his job because he had plans to pursue his master's in environmental science at the University of California at Santa Barbara. Big step. Big step, but you know, I think we're learning a lot about these guys. They seem like good guys. Achievers.

Achievers. They've got goals, ambitions, people that work with them generally seem to like them. The one thing we're not doing is telling the backstory of a serial killer. Right. This is a much different vibe. David's coworkers reported that he delayed his trip. So Rafi would be able to take time off work to travel with him.

So the way I understood it was that this was going to be like the last big thing between the two guys before David went to school in California. Kind of like that trip we took before I got my PhD. Yeah, very much like that. David wanted to stop and camp at various locations throughout the country. And again, to me, that sounds amazing. The two young men left on July 30th, 1999. Raffi and David started riding in a spiral. notebook, which would later become, you know, a very important piece of evidence.

David's girlfriend gave him the notebook as a gift. The journal didn't indicate that he and David were fighting or that they were, you know, really any tensions between them. According to the Eddie County Sheriff, there were two styles of writing in the journal, basically meaning two different people were making entries. David and Rafi stopped in Nashville, New Orleans, and Austin. They played pool. They drank at local bars.

They were going to drive through Amarillo. But according to Rafi, David wanted to go to New Mexico because his uncle had suggested it to him. He had always wanted to see the Carlsbad Caverns for himself. And I know that is a big tourist draw. Sure it is. Never been there. Me neither.

I have been to New Mexico, but only to Albuquerque, I think. Yeah, same here. But I have heard of the Carlsbad Caverns. I know it's a place that a lot of people visit. So on August 4th, 1999, Rafi and David arrived at Carlsbad Caverns National Park in southern New Mexico. They asked a park ranger about free camping sites and the ranger suggested that they go to rattlesnake canyon. Just that name alone. Rattlesnake Canyon.

Yeah, already I'm, I'm leery. Yeah. They would need to park at the trailhead and walk about a mile to the canyon floor to set up camp. So I'm leery about the name, but again, that sounds like an adventure. It sounds like fun. It does. There's a little bit of city slickers in there. Citysumkers.

Yeah. Just, you know, just an adventure with your buddy. Yeah. You'd wear that hat of yours. Oh, always. Yeah. If we're going out there, I'm wearing the hat. So they filled out their two-day camping permit, purchased three pints of water, two jugs of Gatorade,

and a topographical map in the gift shop. And they rushed out so that they could set up their camp before dark. Rafi and David had a tent and also put together a lean two with a tarp. They left one Gatorade in the car but took the water and one jug of Gatorade with them. But Raffy and David didn't check. out on August 6th, like they were supposed to, park workers noticed on day three that their car was still parked at the top of the trail. Management assistant Alita Knight told the Carlsbad current Argus that the Carlsbad Caverns National Park issues two-day permits, but it's not uncommon

for people to stay longer. That's why the Rangers weren't all that concerned when Rafi and David missed checkout. So I get it. I mean, they're not staying at a red roof end. No. You can't just walk down and knock on the door and say, hey, you got to get out. Right. Time to go. On August 8th, two days after they're scheduled checkout, a ranger went searching for them. He saw their camp from a high point, and then he went down into the canyon. The ranger found Rafi lying in his tent on the canyon floor. He was weak, and he was dehydrated. The first thing that Rafi said was, please tell me you have water. I don't know if you ever been that thirsty.

When you haven't had water for a while, nothing else to drink and you just want something wet. Well, I have been mighty thirsty. Mighty thirsty? I've not been to the level where you're talking about days. Yeah. You know, that point where, you know, you're so dehydrated. I think a lot of people get disoriented. Things start to begin to shut down inside your body.

Obviously, I've never been to that point, never been stranded or anything like that. Never had to drink your own urine? No. Okay. No, I do, but I've never had to. Oh, it never had to do. No. It was optional.

So he's asking this ranger if he's got water. The ranger asked him, where's your buddy? And Raffi answered over there, I killed him. And as he said it, he pointed out a pile of rocks that served as a grave for David Coughlin. Rafi had stabbed David in the heart with his pocket knife. So just imagine this scene. Gibbs, if you're this park ranger, you got a lot of questions. Sure do.

Eventually, Rafi explained that they spent the night of August 4th in the canyon. On the morning of the 5th, they packed up and they headed to their car, but they got lost. They tried a number of different paths, but they just couldn't find the trail that led back to the car. And from what I understand Gibbs, the rattlesnake canyon trail is only marked by, you know, small stones. So it can be pretty easy to miss like trail markers and not really know where the pass really are. Yeah, I've been on some hikes where you kind of not really sure how do you get out where you're at now, you know, walk in. you feel good, confident, then you turn around and go, huh, how do I get out of here? Yeah, I rarely get in over my head because I'm pretty good with the layout of this basement.

Oh yeah. You got it down. Yeah. I've never gotten lost down here. So I'm pretty good. The problem, the other problem was neither guy had a compass. Now, they did have this topographical map, right? We talked about that. They bought one. But neither one. of them really knew how to read it. Right. So it's one thing to buy a certain type of map, but if you don't understand that map. Yeah, you're in trouble. You're in trouble because, well, it's not going to help you. Rafi went on to say that they hiked all day in the heat. They drank all of their water. And it was said that Carlsbad Rangers normally recommend bringing one gallon per person per day. But they only brought three pints of water. Not nearly enough. Between the two of them.

Right. Well, plus they used some of that water to cook their hot dogs. Yeah, they used an entire pint to boil hot dogs the night before. So I think after that, what they have? Maybe about a fourth of the recommended water for one day's time for two people. Yeah, not good. Not good. Rafi later testified that they became extremely thirsty.

They licked rocks. They ate cactus fruit and even tried to drink their own urine. But he said neither one of them. them were able to do it. Well, as you know, it's difficult to drink your own urine. It's an acquired taste. Yeah. I have seen a number of people do it on those survival shows, though. How real all of that stuff is, I don't know. I don't know either. Naked and afraid. There was one I used to watch called Survivor Man. I really liked. It was just him and a camera. But again, you never know what's real, what stage, you know, reality is not really reality when it comes to reality shows.

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promo code T-Cat, T-C-C-C-A-T-T. Rafi and David spent the night of August 5th camping in the canyon. they woke up on the sixth and hiked across the canyon and climbed to the top of the opposite rim. Rafi thought he had seen moving lights there the night before. He hoped that it was a car's headlights on a road. But I think when they got up there, they quickly realized there was no road. The two sat in the shade of a bush and they watched birds circle them. Okay, that's pretty ominous.

It is. When you look up and you see those buzzers. It's just waiting, waiting for you. Rafi even wrote in his journal, We will not let the buzzards get us alive. Now, I don't know that buzzards actually eat people while they're alive, but they definitely are scavengers. For sure.

There's no doubt about that. Rafi and David went back to camp on the night of August 6th. It rained on the 5th and the 6th, but very little. I think one day was like 0.25 inches. The other was 0.07 inches. They tried to drink rainwater. You're probably not going to get a whole lot. Even if you have a system for catching it,

they made an SOS sign out of rocks in the dry stream bed at the bottom of the canyon. Some of these rocks were a foot in diameter and very, very heavy. And they didn't even finish the last S. Investigators wondered how they had the strength to move and arrange the rocks. if they were so severely dehydrated. Rafi was also able to move rocks alone to make David's grave, which I think Rangers were suspicious of as well. Yeah.

When they interviewed him. I mean, you know, this is like a day or two. And this sounds like the entire plot of castaway. There's a lot of stuff going on in a very short period of time. But that he can be brutal. and if you don't have the proper amount of hydration, it's going to be tough. Yeah, I think it's safe to say that they underestimated.

The heat, what it would do to them, the amount of liquid that they needed for, you know, a certain period of time. And obviously getting lost. Right. As Rafi said they did, that's going to be a big problem. Rafi said at one point,

they talked about taking their lives together. other. And they even agreed to cut each other's wrists. According to his testimony, David tried to cut Rafi's left wrist, but the knife was too dull. Or he said David wasn't pushing hard enough. He never even broke the skin. But if that is true, I think it really gives you an idea of the situation. Yeah. And how hopeless they must have thought their situation was. So not only is it physical, but it's got that psychological aspect to it as well. Yeah, I think in any survival situation, whether you're dehydrated to the point where you think you're going to die, you're stuck out in freezing cold weather, you think you're going to die.

Right. There's a physical aspect of it. But then there's a mental slash psychological aspect of it as well. I think you're absolutely right. I know my friend Bear Grills. You were searching for that last name, weren't you? He's always said, you know, mine over matter. I like Bear.

I like Bear. I've watched some of his stuff. Yeah. But I think already Gibbs, it comes down to this. Either this was a real tragedy of epic proportions or Rafi's not telling the truth. It's really only two ways to look at this. That's true. Now, I think we already know that law enforcement at some point doesn't believe he's telling the truth.

They're suspicious of him because he ends up being charged. We're already talking about some of his testimony. Yeah. Rafi and David wrote notes for their family and friends. And they also wrote burial instructions in their journal. By night three, David began vomiting uncontrollably. according to CBS on August 8th, David begged Rafi to kill him. Rafi said no, but David grabbed him and said, you know they're not going to come.

That is absolute desperation. But again, we only have one person's side. And that's an important part of this story and a lot of stories, to be honest with you. You know, anytime someone lives and someone dies, you only get the person who lives side. Well, it's true. There's no way around it. Well, somehow you're lucky enough to have a recording device at that moment. Yeah, like something comes back to refute something that someone living has said that was recorded before somebody died. So as the testimony goes, David begged Rafi to kill him. Eventually, Rafi agreed. And he used

his knife to stab David twice in the chest. The second stab pierced David's heart. Rafi said he asked David if he was still in pain and David said no that he felt better David smiled and held Rafi's hand until he died. It'd be a tough thing to do to your best friend anybody but especially your best friend. Well we talk a lot about people who kill. Now many of the people that we talk about enjoy the act of killing or what comes along with that act. But this is something very different, right? This is a life or death situation. And one person asked their friend to kill them because why?

They don't want to go out in that type of pain with no water and just they just want it done. Rafi said that after he stabbed David, he cut his own wrist, but he said the knife was too dull to make any type of fatal wounds. Rafi then buried David under a pile of rocks. That day, Rafi wrote in his journal, I killed and buried my best friend today. Dave had been in pain all night. At around five or six, he turned to me and begged that I put my knife through his chest.

I did and a second time when he wouldn't die. So obviously we said before, right? This journal is pretty important in the scope of this whole thing and the way it played out. Now, at a certain point, is the journal any different than what somebody says on the stand? And I don't know that it is. When it comes to Rafi, right, what he says on the stand, what he writes in the journal, because there's nobody else there to corroborate what he's saying.

Yeah, it's his word against no one. Exactly. You either believe him or you don't. Ranger Lance Mattson had been looking for the two men on August 8th. And this was the Ranger who found Rafi and this horrifying scene. Really it was just a few hours after Rafi killed David. Mattson asked if Rafi had any weapons and he turned over the knife. According to the Carlsbad current Argus,

Rafi told Mattson, my buddy asked me to do it. and he said they were going to do it together. Mattson removed a flat rock from the grave and saw blue cloth covering what appeared to be a human nose. He also noticed that part of the tent was hanging in a tree. Apparently the floor of the tent was cut out and was never found. Another park ranger named Mark Masia arrived at the scene 40 minutes after Mattson. Rafi was awake. He was conscious.

he knew what was going on. It was even reported that his blood pressure was normal, but his pulse and his breathing were hot. You know, a racy pulse can make you look suspicious sometimes. Yeah, but this is kind of a unique situation. But to be fair, my pulse goes up every time I walk into my doctor's office in here. In the dentist, every, for some reason, they take my blood pressure at the dentist now. Really?

And it is sky high. Every time I go, it's because I don't want to get my teeth cleaned. I hate it. Yeah. I don't think you like going anywhere outside this basement anyway. Well, I don't like going to doctors and dentists and places like that. But you're right. And we said it before. The Rangers were suspicious. And number one, if Rafi was so weak, so dehydrated and had tried to end his life, how could he have had the strength to bury David under a bunch of rocks?

Well, no, that makes sense. I mean, because some of these rocks were pretty big and they weighed over 50 pounds. So how do you do that? Yeah, I'm struggling, I think, to do that. hydrated. Hydrated, fully fed after, you know, a good night's sleep. Yeah. Also, the campsite was roughly about 250 feet from the start of the trail and only two miles from the visitor center where they checked in and about 1.5 miles from the trailhead on the park scenic loop road. So, I definitely think, you know, these Rangers thought it was very strange that these guys couldn't find at the very least the start of the trail and then work backwards from there. 250 feet, Gibbs. It's not very far.

It's not. Makes you wonder, was there more to the story? Or were they just really that confused? And bad at, you know, not directions, but direction. Because I'm bad at that. get disordinated. Or disoriented. Yeah.

One of those. You get one. I get the other. But I've always had that problem. And my wife will tell you, getting on the highway, knowing whether I'm supposed to go, let's say, east or west or north or south, knowing where I'm at in relation to where I'm going. Right. I'm not looking at a map.

I'm just, for some reason, I get mixed up. That happens. Happens to people. So Rafi received a saline drip. He was handcuffed. The New York Times wrote that Sheriff Mark Click reported that Rafi was moderately too severely dehydrated, but was not close to dying. Yeah, but he probably felt like he was close to dying. He could have. Yeah. I mean, I know I've been dehydrated. I know you've been dehydrated. Not to the point where I thought I was close to dying, dehydrated. I've been pretty dehydrated. I thought, man, this is rough. I don't even know if I've been that bad. Really? I mean, where is water, Gatorade, a Coke Zero? Not within a drive, a walk.

Yeah, got to get that Coke Zero in there. But again, I'm not doing a lot of camping. I'm not going to, you know, really off the beaten path type places. You do some of that. I do. So I could see where maybe you would over your lifespan, have maybe gotten into, not this situation, but gotten to a point where you thought, oh, this is close, we better do something else or else we would be in in some type of really bad situation.

I don't even think I've been remotely close to getting into some type of survivor man slash castaway area. You never had to make your own IV. No, never made that. Yeah, it's exciting. The sheriff Mark Click also told news outlets, I don't care what anyone says. People just don't do that to their friends. You don't get to kill someone in the state of New Mexico just because they ask you to. So I think there are things working on a number of different fronts here.

You know, were they suspicious that everything went down the way that Rafi said it had? Yes, I think they were. But, you know, if you examine this statement by the show. sheriff. I think what he's saying is even if it did go down the way that you're saying it did, you still don't have the right to kill someone simply because they ask you to do. Yeah. Because, you know, obviously there you're getting into a similar situation as, you know, Dr. Jack, work in. Yeah. Yeah. And why, you know, he kept getting in trouble and there were laws against that and that type of stuff. On August 9th,

Rafi was charged with an open count of murder. And basically that just meant investigators had not determined the seriousness of the charge at that point in time. They were calling it murder, but leaving it open as to first degree, second degree, whatever. David's autopsy was performed on August 10th. The medical examiner declared his cause of death to be two stab wounds. And he said that the manner of death, was homicide. There were no indications that David struggled against Rafi when he stabbed him.

Investigators planned on testing David's electrolytic balance, essentially to accurately determine his exact level of dehydration. That's probably a very important factor to know. Well, my thought is, and their thought must have been, if it comes back that he wasn't really all that severely dehydrated, then, you know, this story by Rafi kind of falls apart. It does. It doesn't mean everything that he say because it all kind of hinges on David's level of dehydration. Sure, based on the story that he gave. On August 10th, Rafi posted his $50,000 bail, but was not permitted to leave the county. Investigators conducted searches of the property in the car and at the campsite on August 10th. So really, if you look at the timeline, things are

happening very quickly. Yeah, sometimes you don't see things move that fast in cases, but this one, like you said, is moving pretty rapidly. The U.S. Secret Service examined the journal for fingerprints, and they analyze the handwriting to see if David actually wrote some of the diary entries. I think that's important as well. Were they both writing in them, or was it just Raffy pretending like both were writing in it. Well, because if it's the latter, then again, that changes things dramatically. On August 13th, Rafi received permission to go back to Pennsylvania with his family, but he would have to return to New Mexico for a hearing on the 19th.

Rafi and his father's cooperation with law enforcement got him some leniency. He had to sign a waiver. He had to give up his passport. Rafi and his father also kept in contact daily with investigators to let them know when he was traveling to speak to his attorney in New Mexico. There's been super cooperative. For a reason. Sure. He wants to go back home.

Yeah. Or he wants to go back with family. But, hey, to do that, you're going to have to do this, this and this. First of all, you got to give up your passport. We're not letting you, you know, fly off to some non-extradition country. Exactly. Keep you within reach. Raffey's attorney announced to the public for the first time on August 20th that Raffey had tried to cut his wrists after stabbing David. And I do find some of this very interesting Gibbs, I think in any case like this where, you know, you have both sides. Unless there's a gag order, they're having, you know, little many press conferences on the staff. reporters are asking them questions or they're just making announcement. Now, why do they want to do that? The defense attorney wants to paint a certain picture of their client. Sure. The prosecution wants to

normally paint a much different picture of that same person. Yeah, they want the public to hear their side before the trial ever starts. Well, there is something to be said about the court of public opinion. David's funeral was held on August 21st, 1999. His family didn't express anger at Rafi, at least not publicly. At a memorial service on August 13th, David's brother Michael even asked guests to pray for Rafi. So I think at least in the month of August, you know, the family was kind of understanding what he had done. Right. They were asking people to pray for him. Sheriff Click told the Albuquerque Tribune on August 22nd. I believe Mr. Coughlin was very much alive when he was killed. No question if he had been airlifted out of there. He would have been treated

and released and he would be on his way to Santa Barbara by now. But according to Rafi, they couldn't find a way out. He'd have to find a way out to get help. So again, it's going to come down to who you believe. You're either going to, and the jury is as well, believe the words of Rafi that the situation unfolded a certain way or you're not. And it's really going to be what makes or breaks the case against him. Yeah. I don't think there's any doubt what the sheriff thought because he was talking to the paper, you know, time and time again and basically saying, we don't believe this guy. Yeah, you definitely know what side of the sheriff's on. Rafi pleaded not guilty, by mail on September 2nd, 1999. His trial was set for January 2000. We've done a lot of cases. I don't remember

anybody pleading by mail. Now, granted, most of the cases that we do involve very, very serious people who are not given bail. No, they're in custody. They're in custody. So they're loaded up into a van and taken to the courthouse. This guy was granted bail. He's back in Pennsylvania at this point, so he sends in his plea through the mail. Rafi chose to waive his arraignment on September 7th, 1999. Legal experts advised him to plead temporary insanity due to dehydration, but he ultimately decided to plead no contest to the charges, even if it meant that he could get a 20-year sentence. And it was my understanding Gibbs that he thought this was the better strategy because then he could appeal the sentence. I get both sides. I kind of lean more towards how the legal experts advised because it really makes good sense.

Well, you and I do talk about temporary insanity if you want to use that word legally. They do use that word. I do think that in that. type of state severely dehydrated, you can make an argument that a person may not be in their right mind. They may not know what they're doing. Right. And if I was a juror for this case, I would believe that because they're going to give you the medical history where it showed that he was severely dehydrated. Rafi's hearing started on May 8, 2000. His attorney announced that morning that he would plead no contest but retain the right to appeal the judge's ruling that barred the dehydration dementia defense temporary insanity amarillo dot com reported that the judge didn't allow the dementia defense because new mexico's involuntary intoxication defense requires the involuntary

intake of some type of substance in this case it's the failure or inability to take any substance due to the unavailability of that substance water. So legal experts said, hey, this is the best route to go. He said, no, I don't want to do that. It didn't matter. Right. Because the judge said, I'm not going to let you do it anyway. But the reason why I thought was pretty interesting.

The only way I guess he could have done it was under this involuntary intoxication. So almost like he was intoxicated because he was so. severely dehydrated, but that defense only works if you've taken something, like a drug or alcohol or something like that. It doesn't work if you couldn't get what you needed. So I could think of some other areas where, you know, I'm just off top of my head thinking about a diabetic who is without their insulin and it causes them to be unimpaired and they do something. Yeah. So in New Mexico at this time, and again, I don't know if it's, it's still that way, you would not be able to make that defense.

Couldn't mount a defense behind that. No, because it wasn't something you took. It was something that you were unable to take that caused your condition. The prosecution led by Les Williams initially suggested that Rafi killed David because David admitted that he cheated with Rafi's former girlfriend and Rafi killed him in a fit of rage. However, Sheriff Click sent Captain Eddie Carrasco to investigate the rumors about the cheating, but he didn't find any evidence of this and reported no one I talked with ever heard a crossword between them.

They were the best of friends. So this is a guy sent to investigate these rumors. And you couldn't find anything wrong. No. If anything, he said, nobody had anything but glowing things or talked about these people in glowing terms. They were the best of friends. We mentioned it. David's autopsy found that he was dehydrated, but he wasn't close to dying. He might have felt like he was close to dying, though. He may have felt that way. Yeah. The prosecutor cited expert testimony that claimed David would have survived if he hadn't been

stabbed. Experts know that vomiting does not mean you are necessarily dying of thirst. More likely, David was sick from the cactus fruit. He and Rafi were both badly dehydrated, but people have survived for longer periods of time with little to no water. The key thing about that was experts know. Yeah, I like where your head is at on this. If you're a lay person and you are severely dehydrated, do you know how close you are to dying? Do you know that you have six hours, 12 hours, a day and a half left? know is that you're in big trouble, perhaps. Yeah. And if you are vomiting, you're thinking, I'm losing fluids. I can't afford to lose. So I do think it's a very good point that you're making. Just because experts know something doesn't mean that, you know, John Q public camping for the first

time knows that. Park Rangers testified that Rafi was coherent when they found him lying in his tent despite the heat and the dehydration. The trail markers were within view of the camp, about 80 feet apart. They said that you could also see the park roads from the top of the ridges that surrounded the campsite. So, I mean, I think it's obvious. And we've already said it. They really doubted Rafi's story that they got lost.

You know, they testified that the two men were just half an hour by foot from their car. but they did admit that these two guys didn't have the proper camping supplies that they should have had. I get it. It's going to make me doubt the story too. If you can sit there at the campsite and look out and see, oh, right there is the trail head. Oh, wait, over there's the road. You can't see it probably from where you're at. You can't see the car.

It's a half, you know, 30 minutes away. But, you know, much like. your experts with water. These are guys that work in this national park day in, day out. Sure. They know the lay of the land. So I think you and I are kind of not picking aside here. We're giving pros and cons on different things. Could you get lost 30 minutes from your car? Yeah. Yeah. I think that's definitely possible. And if you were in like a really thick woods, I think it'd be even more possible. I think the one thing that does throw me is the trail marker 80 feet away.

And the trail head kind of 250 feet away. If you can see those things, do you not know kind of where you're at? But if you're severely dehydrated, can you see those things? Or can you see them but not understand what they are? Yeah, but were you severely dehydrated when you figured out were lost? Well, that's true. Because I don't know that they were at that point in time. I think Rafi saying they got it.

severely dehydrated because they were lost. They're making SOS signs, moving big rocks. You could see why authorities would think some of that stuff is suspicious. Yeah. Prosecutor showed video of investigators removing the rocks from David's body. The video also showed David's bloody shirt. Raffi's attorney, Gary Mitchell, explained that the murder was part of a death pact and Raffey was planning to end his life. life after killing David, but he was too weak. The defense compared what happened to soldiers in combat who commit mercy killings. Gary said that David and Rafi were placed in an absolutely horrible situation of total hopelessness. And again, I go back to my earlier statement. You either

believe Rafi or you don't. You know it's going to come down to that for the jury. Mitchell argued that Rafi and David didn't have much experience with survivalism and the outdoors, they were under extreme distress and thought that they were going to die. The defense also criticized the National Park Service for the low quality map. They did find the topographical map at the campsite, but Rafi testified that he didn't think it was theirs because he thought they burned the map when they started a fire to try to get help. Well, what Rafi says doesn't make any sense to me because if he knows there's another map, it's a map of the park.

Why else would it be there? His or not, it's a map of the park. I find that strange. Just pick it up and open it up and see if you can utilize it. Well, according to CBS, a neuropsychologist testified that Rafi wouldn't have been able to read a topographical map because of how his brain processed information. He might as well be reading a text in Greek. That's what the neuropsychologist said.

And I'm assuming this was later on once he was experiencing the dehydration. And that's the reason why his brain wouldn't process it, not that normally he couldn't have processed it. And that makes sense with the dehydration. The defense argued that their lack of survival knowledge made the circumstances feel even more extreme for them. They said, Rafi and David assumed that since they were in the desert with no water and with buzzards circling overhead.

They were going to die. The New York Times wrote, with almost no wilderness experience to draw upon, Coughlin and Codician frame their predicament in terms of a Hollywood Western or a Warner Brothers cartoon.

You know, I get that. I can see that being something that they thought because you see in movies all the time. You look up, the buzzards are circling you, you have no water, you feel like any moment you're going to die. Well, that's certainly the picture that the defense wanted to paint.

Medical experts testified about heat-related panic and how it could have put Rafi and David in a mental state that would cause them to make irrational decisions. Okay. I've never heard of heat-related panic, but I could definitely see where the heat and the lack of water could really mess you up. I mean, I've just been super hot, you know, probably near like maybe having a heat stroke. Yeah. And I know what that's done to me.

And I've eaten pretzels where they made me really thirsty. These pretzels are making me thirsty. Yeah. Rafi's testimony was an important part of the sentencing hearing. The Carlsbad current Argus reported that according to Rafi. David said, you've got to end this. Quit messing around. Get the knife.

Rafi said, I did. And then David said, now put it through my chest. Rafi said that he was bawling the whole time. Rafi testified that he buried David so that the buzzards wouldn't get to him. And in his testimony, he described how the pair got lost. He said they woke up at 8 a.m. on August 5th. They went down the wrong trail and had to come back. But they wasted several hours trying to find the trail. They followed a series of stones because they thought they would lead to the exit.

But apparently the stones were part of some abandoned trail. They thought they saw headlights and they spent most of the day trying to get to that area. That's when they found out that there was no road. They thought someone would find them the next day. But when they woke up in the morning, they decided they didn't feel comfortable sitting around waiting for help. And he said they spent Friday on what he called wild goose chases. So wasting a lot of energy. Now, it's pretty vague.

Yeah. But you can infer from that that, yeah, they were wasting a lot of energy. They were trying this. They were trying that. But none of it panned out. He just didn't go into a lot of specifics. Maybe those trail openings, they went down where they thought those were the ones 80 feet away and said, oh, we don't want to do those. We've already did that before.

If they didn't have a good memory of what they did the day before. The Carl's Bad Current Argus wrote that at another point, they thought they saw bottles of water lined up on the other end of the canyon. They ran towards them, but there was nothing there. Rafi said, when we got there, they were gone. We thought someone was playing a trick on us. It was ridiculous, but those were the thoughts we had. We just kept talking about the Gatorade and the car. and how good it was going to be.

Yeah, they were definitely dehydrated. If what he's saying is correct. Exactly. Yeah, because it almost sounds like a mirage. Yeah. These bottles of water, they see them, but by the time they get there, there's nothing there. They just wanted it so bad to be there.

Rafi felt so weak at one point. He told David to go on without him, but David refused. I mentioned it Gibbs. They tried to drink their own urine, and they started noticing buzzards following them. On Saturday, David got sick. Rafi left and tried to look for some trail markers. He came back and that's when they made the SOS with rocks. He said they rubbed pebbles on their backs because it felt like water. Strange? Yeah, I'm trying to imagine that sensation. I don't see how it would feel like water. Maybe if the pebbles were in the shade.

would it be cool? I don't know. I don't know either. On Saturday, they thought they were going to die. David tried to slit Rafi's wrist, but it didn't work. David spent the night sick and in pain. Rafi said he spent the night on his hands and knees vomiting. I had to pick the vomit out of his mouth for him because he couldn't. That's a friend. That is a friend. And I will say, you know, we've played a little bit of devil's advocate here. Is Rafi telling the truth? Is he not telling the truth. What I will say is if it went down like this, that would be heartbreaking. Not only to know that you're in a really rough spot, but to see your friend who seems as though he's having an even tougher time to where you don't think he's going to make it. He doesn't

think he's going to make it. And it was on Sunday morning that David asked Rafi to kill him. Rafi told the court, what I thought I was doing was keeping my friend from going through 12 to 24 hours of hell before he died. Rafi said that he moved the rocks to bury David because it was the last thing that I could do for him. It was not something I chose to do. It was something I had to do. After that, he said he lost consciousness.

He said, my will was gone. I was just waiting at that point. According to the Carlsbad current Argus, Raffey testified and said, we hadn't planned on doing any serious backpack. So I didn't take all the supplies I had. He admitted that they made a big mistake by not analyzing their surroundings on the hike down to the campsite. The prosecutor asked Rafi, it wasn't mental illness that made you kill him. It was mercy.

And Rafi answered, yeah, that's the way I see it. You know, I was thinking how bad it would feel to be dehydrated like that. Then on top of that, have severe vomiting. you know, David probably felt like he wanted to die. Or he was dying. Or he was dying. He was close to dying. That's probably how he felt.

Yeah. Now, experts said that he wasn't as close as maybe he thought. But again, you know, back to your earlier point. When you're in the middle of it and you're no expert, all you know is I feel like I'm dying. Yeah. And I don't want to feel like that anymore. Or maybe I don't want a half a day, another day of this. if I'm going to die anyway.

So let's do it now. Put me out of my misery. I think that's what Rafi is saying happened. Prosecutor Williams held up the pocket knife during his closing argument and said he did not kill himself after he killed his friend. Action speak louder than words. He didn't really feel there was no hope because he didn't kill himself. This defendant is not an evil person.

He's not a bad person. but he did a bad thing again a little different than most of the trials the closing arguments right that that we would talk about on a normal true crime all the time most of the time you'd have a prosecutor who is saying this is the most evil person that i've ever prosecuted yeah in my 30 years he's saying the opposite this is not a bad guy he just did a really bad thing on may 10 20th 2000, Rafi Kodikian was sentenced to 15 years with 13 years suspended and five years probation, which was the maximum under New Mexico law, with the condition that if he violated parole, he would have to serve the full 15 year sentence. The judge suspended the sentence because

he felt like Rafi wasn't a danger to society and he had expressed remorse for what he did. Gary Mitchell cried as the sentence was read, but admitted that it was fair. Judge J. Forbes told the court, Rafi Kodikian's conduct in this situation caused the life of David Coughlin to end. Mr. Coughlin was a particularly vulnerable victim, and the impact on his family is never and will never be forgotten by them. He had a conscious and rational understanding of what he did at the time he murdered David Coughlin, but Rafi's remorse is genuine. I don't question that.

So again, I think another powerful statement for me to boil it down, he's saying, this guy knew what he was doing. He did it willingly, but I believe he did it because he didn't want his friend to suffer and he feels really bad about it.

And I think you can see the judge's feelings in the sentence. Okay, 15 years, that's a long time. It is. But when you suspend it as a judge, I think you're saying, I had to do this, but I don't believe this guy should have to serve it. And it says a lot. David's family didn't attend the hearing, but did prepare a statement. It read, we can think of no reason why Rafi would have wished David any harm or pain.

Moreover, we cannot presume to know what transpired or the thoughts in a moment. motions, the two experienced during the days before David's death, to be sure we have questions. However, we find it difficult to believe there was any malicious intent. Wow, that's a big statement from the family. Yeah, and I think it falls in line. And maybe the judge took that into account. I don't know. Rafi participated in a press conference after the hearing, spent the day with his family

and then reported to jail at 5 p.m. He was transferred to the New Mexico state prison. He told reporters, I feel that anybody in my position who would turn their back on their friend wouldn't have been deserving of coming out of the canyon in the first place. He said about David, I still love him. I always will. It should have been both of us. It's not fair that only one of us made it out.

Rafi's attorney said they didn't want to appeal because it would be too dangerous. You know, it would put Rafi at risk for being tried for first degree murder. Yeah, I don't think he could have asked for a better outcome. No, 15 years, 13 of that, suspended, five years probation. And we're going to find out he doesn't do the entire two years. Yeah. I mean, I guess he could have gotten off completely. But to go back through that process and hope for the same or better, I think it's doubtful.

Well, I don't think you want to roll those dice. No. Rafi's defense attorney told the press, the sentence was extremely fair, taking into account all the factors. The Kaufflin and Kodikian families would both like to end this ordeal. Judge Forbes couldn't have picked a fair sentence to all concerned. Rafi had the possibility of reducing his sentence by 15% with good behavior and he received credit for three days served. Ultimately, he served 16 months and was released in, November 2001. So, you know, as we wrap up this case, Gibbs, Rafi Kodikian was convicted of second

degree murder. Now, he maintained the entire time, and I'm assuming still does, that David asked him to kill him and that he thought they were both going to die there in the desert. So, you know, one of the reasons why I found this case so fascinating was it brings up a ton of questions, moral questions, legal questions. I mean, I think right off the top. And I mentioned Dr. Jack Kvorkin. Sure. That question has been around for a very long time.

Should someone be able to ask another to kill them? Because they don't want to live anymore, for whatever reason. They're sick. They're dying. They're in pain. Well, in some countries, assisted suicide is an option. legal option legal option yeah i mean i'm sure there are going to be people on both sides of that fence as there are with every thing that comes up exactly and then the the questions i have

specifically around this case first and foremost has raffi kodekin told the entire truth i think that that's a big question that that everybody has to to ponder has to ask i just don't see and And obviously they scoured. They looked for it. What would have been Rafi's motive to want to get David out in the middle of nowhere to get them lost so that he could kill him? You know, they tried to claim it had something to do with a girlfriend. They investigated it. Couldn't find anything.

Nope. Said these guys were the best of friends without some kind of evidence pointing me towards that. it just doesn't seem like a viable scenario. So if that's not a viable scenario, then what are you left with? That they really did get lost. Yeah. They couldn't find their way back to the trail, where they checked in to their car. They obviously didn't have enough supplies.

Sure. Namely water. So did they really feel as though they were going to die? Did they make the decision that they were going to die together at some point did David ask Rafi to kill him, which he did. And then the plan was that Rafi was going to end his life. But for whatever reason, he couldn't go through with it. Either, you know, in his words, at one point he said the knife was too dull. Right. I don't know if that's true or not, or if that would have prevented him. Yeah. From ending his life if he really thought that's what he

wanted to do. Or did he just decide that he did not want to or that he couldn't for whatever reason? I think that's plausible that he did everything up to that point and just couldn't follow through taking his own life. It wouldn't be the first time. I mean, there are people throughout history who have made, for the lack of a better term, suicide packs. Yeah. And one person was not able to go through with it after the other person did. Now, this is a lot of. This is. a little different. They, it seems as though they believed they were in a dire situation. But even then, maybe he just could not get himself to that place where he could harm himself

in that way. But I do believe he thought he was helping his friend. Well, I do too because I don't have any evidence to the contrary. Right. There's really not a single thing other than the fact that they were fairly close. Yeah. But again, if they were that dehydrated, if they were delirious or just they really weren't functioning, okay, I don't know. I wasn't there. Yeah. You know, a lot of these cases come down to that fact. None of us were there. We don't know really what transpired. No, two people were there. Yeah. One of them's dead and the other one has told a kind of a singular story. So you either believe it or you don't. Exactly.

But that's it for our episode on Rafi Kodikian and the murder of David Coughlin. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out? Yes, hear them. Hey, those are the funnier voice, that double mic. I was just calling because did you really say vacuum cleaner? Vacuum cleaner? I'm sorry.

I was listening to, where's it a guy, Zaki. episode and I loved how you guys cut right into commercial right after he said vacuuming here. That was frigging hilarious. I hope my kids were listening. I think right of time I wouldn't have gotten it.

But anyway, love you guys. You're probably two years now. COVID-2020 listener here. But let you guys keep that skepticism alive. Head on its level and keep your own time of chicken, boys.

No, it definitely wasn't planned. Now, what is planned is where some of the ads will go. We don't always know what the ads will be, though. And so, you know, where I can, I try to pick a spot that is a little lighthearted. Yeah. So that we're not talking about something very gruesome. And then all of a sudden, someone's pitching you something for your pet or, you know. Food choice.

Food choice or whatever. But I did say that. I'll say vacuum. I'll say it again. Again, vacuum. Vacuum. Yeah. Hey, this is Brittany calling from South Carolina, and I was just listening to you.

I went way back, had never listened to the early, early episodes. And I was listening to the Lacey Peterson, and I just started dying, laughing when Gibby says Debbie does the donkey. And it was just kind of the first instance from what I've heard now, going back and listening to those early episodes of him kind of showing his humor. And anyways, I've been listening you guys pretty nonstop for a few months now. And I'm just so glad I finally found you. I love the justice that you do telling you there some stories. And I think that, uh, you guys just do a great job. You have a really good energy together and, uh, just keep doing it. So,

thanks so much. Keep your own time ticking. You know, Gibbs, I actually don't even remember that. I don't either. But that episode has been. been, you know, a number of years ago, it's kind of funny, what we forget. I know. But it's always interesting to hear somebody call in or email me about something that happened in episode 10 or 20 or 30 when we're on, you know, episode 290 something. Exactly. So that's cool. Keep on listening. Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate you. Hey, Mike and Gibby. This is Rachel. I live. I live. in Columbia, Tennessee, which is about 45 minutes south of Nashville. And I have been listening for a few months now, so I have a lot of catching up to do.

I'm only on episode 122 of true crime all the time. I haven't even touched unsolved yet. So I have a lot of anticipation for the next few months. Hopefully I can binge listen to it while I'm in the car, which I do. I'm a home health occupational therapist, and so when I'm in between patients driving from one to the next, I am listening to you guys. I did want to make a comment, Fergie. Thank you so much for saying the word corroborate correctly. You don't know how much it bugs me to hear.

even police officers, newscasters, even TV shows about true crime will say, collaborate with a W. There is not a W in that word. It is corroborate. So thank you,

thank you, thank you for saying that correctly. All right, you guys stay safe and keep your own time ticking. Well, I appreciate the kudos, but it is probably one of the few words that I actually get correct.

You know, I've had a bad streak lately with Glasgow. I got a lot of, you know what, over that. I'm still not even sure exactly how to say, uh, banger instead of bangor, which I still have a hard time saying it. But we do work with a vocabulary now and then. We get through it. I didn't even understand what you just said right before the word vocabulary. There was a kind of a weird mumble, stumble. That's what we do, man. Hey, we are who we are. Exactly. I think it's safe to say we're at an age. where we're probably not learning a bunch of new words.

Now, we do try to get better. I'm not saying that, but... You did buy me that hook on phonics set. Yeah, yeah, hooked on phonics. Yeah. And then you got hooked. I did. All right, buddy.

We had nothing in the mailbag. So that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.