True Crime All The Time - Rebecca O'Donnell

Episode Date: March 27, 2023

In June 2019, former Arkansas state senator Linda Collins was found stabbed to death outside her home. The killer was an unlikely suspect- Linda’s close friend and former campaign worker, Rebecca O’Donnell.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the murderous Rebecca O'Donnell. It took police less than a month to zero in on and arrest Rebecca. But, during that time, a few people fell under suspicion. One person was Linda's ex-husband, Phil Smith. The two went through a very contentious divorce. Once Rebecca started talking, people couldn't believe the reasons why she killled her very good friend.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 326 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime. Mike Gibson, give me, how are you? I'm doing good about yourself. I'm doing very well. Both you and I are healthy. Voices pretty good.

We're ready to go. Ready to hit it. Yeah, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Caitlin. Hey, Caitlin. Ruth Kay. What's going on on, Ruth? Julie Dunson.

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Tim's still going strong. Yeah, so we appreciate that very much. We had a great PayPal donation from Maria. Luke Cacks. Well, thank you, Maria. Yeah. We appreciate all the support we get. We do very, very much. You know, speaking of Patreon, we put out a Patreon episode on Saturday. We're talking about a man named Franklin Alex who went on a six-month murder, rape, and robbery spree down in Texas. Very angry individual. Yeah, he was a bad guy. He just didn't seem to care about anyone or anything, really. We also have a new episode out on T-Cat Unsolved, we're talking about 20-year-old Joshua Guiman, who left a college party and was

never seen again. This happened back in 2002. Yeah, there were some thoughts that maybe he fell in the water, you know, after having a night out on the town. Maybe throwing back a few pops. Yeah. That could happen. Could. And then there's some foul play, you know, allegations and some other theories that were chased down. Okay. We'll do it. We've already done it. We already have done it. Go check it out. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I'm ready. We're talking about a woman named Rebecca O'Donnell. In June 2019, former Arkansas State Senator Linda Collins was found stabbed to death outside her home. The killer turned out to be an unlikely suspect. Linda's close friend and former Kansas.

campaign worker, Rebecca O'Donnell. So it gives one of the things that you and I never do is talk politics on any of our podcast. We've said that from the very beginning. We don't want to divide our audience. We don't want to tick people off. And I think people just get tired of talking about politics. However, to tell this story, obviously, we're going to have to talk politics, not what our opinions are, our views or anything like that. So I didn't want people to get worried that we're going to delve into that area because we definitely won't. Linda F. Collins was born on April 17th, 1962. She was born in Pocahontas, Arkansas. Now, Linda's family didn't have a lot of money. She grew up in a house without running water. And this is not in 1918. This is 1962. Yeah. So I do think that tells you what type of

situation she grew up in. Doesn't sound like a easy life. No, it doesn't sound like an easy life at all. But obviously, she made something of herself because she became a state senator. Linda was a businesswoman and a Republican member of the Arkansas Senate from 2015 to 2019. She started off her career as a real estate agent. She and her husband, Phil Smith, built a date.

in holiday and remodeled another hotel into a rock and roll theme. Linda ran both businesses. She also founded a county tourism association and then eventually decided to run for office. So sounds like she was a successful businesswoman. Yeah. Sounds like she was. Now, here's my question. I have a really good friend who's into politics. Like he actually has a position. I won't give it away. but I don't understand why. And maybe it's just the type of person I am. Politics or anything to do with that just doesn't seem like it would be my cup of tea.

I get one to change things and make things better. I understand that. Right. Part of it. It just seems like nobody's ever happy with you. But you can gain a lot of power. But I don't want power. I've never wanted power.

Yeah. I just want to be happy. And I wonder how many politicians are truly happy. That I'm not sure of. But a lot of them are pretty powerful. And with power comes money. And with all that comes great responsibility. Yeah.

Okay. It does Spider-Man, but where's the happiness? Yeah, I don't know. And I'm just not sure if it's there or not. From 2011 to 2013, Linda was a member of the Arkansas House of Representatives. She switched from the Democratic to the Republican Party

in August 2011. In 2014, Linda won a seat in the Arkansas Senate. In 2017, Linda introduced the highly controversial Senate Bill 774, called the Arkansas Physical Privacy and Safety Act, this act would have prohibited people from using government restrooms

or changing facilities for the opposite sex. So a very, hot topic even today. I mean, this was essentially five, six years ago, right, that we're talking about, but this is something that crops up in the news even today. Now, this bill didn't pass, but like I mentioned earlier, this is the type of thing where, okay, some people are going to be happy about it. A lot of people are going to be upset about it. Was it Abraham Lincoln that said, you can please some of the people, some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time? No.

Was that Roger Marks? I don't know. No, it was definitely Abraham Lincoln. I just can't remember the quote. Some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people some of the time? Or maybe it's the other way around. Something like that. There was a quote like that.

But I think it had to do with politics. And it's, it's probably something that still holds true today. You just can't please everyone because your view as a politician is not going to line up with everybody else's. I think there's a Frank Underwood quote here. I just can't pull it out of me. It's probably a good idea. Yeah.

Linda's friend Rebecca Becky O'Donnell worked on Linda's campaign and served as her aide while Linda was a sender. She also did the books for the motel in Pocahontas. The two women met through Linda's friend Tim Loggins. Loggins was Rebecca's fiance at the time of her arrest. In 2018, Linda Collins lost her seat in the Senate. to Representative James Sturge. Around this same time, Linda was going through a divorce.

Linda and Phil were married for 23 years. She met Phil when he was working as an attorney, and municipal judge and Pocahontas. At the time, Linda already had two children, Tate Williams and Butch Smith, Phil raised them like his own children. But Linda and Phil divorced in 2018 after he was involved in a public scandal.

Phil Smith retired on December 31st, 2017, after a complaint was filed against him. And anyone who researches this case may see Linda referred to as Linda Collins Smith. You know, I think she did use that name up until her divorce. But in most of the reporting, they just used the name Linda Collins. So just for the sake of continuity, I'm going to keep it that way. in February 2018, Phil Smith received a rapper man from the Arkansas Judicial Discipline and Disability Commission. The complaint stated that while Smith was in office, he used state computer equipment outside working hours for what they called extrajudicial activities.

Okay. That's a fancy name. What's a fancy name, it also could encompass a lot of things. Basically, using it for anything not having to do. with your job. It could be anything from fantasy football to, you know, something much worse. Right. Now, I think we get some clarity into it because according to Linda's friend, Tim Loggins, Linda saw Phil watching pornography on his work computer.

Well, that's a no-no. Well, listen, we're talking 2017, 2018. You and I have been in the business world a long time. I was in the business world. You still are. We had company issued laptops for many, many years. One of the things that you know right off the bat is that there are certain websites you should not be visiting on your work computer.

Exactly. Because they're going to get some type of report. It's going to flag somebody. And they're going to know that you were looking at, you know, furries. or whatever it is, and you're going to get in big time trouble. Now, how this guy didn't know it as an educated judge, or maybe he just thought he was above the law, I don't know, if this is what he really did. Furs, you're going to come after you now, man.

In February 2019, the Arkansas Judicial Discipline and Disability Commission announced the public reprimand of Phillips Smith in the agreement that he would not serve in the judicial again. So this is a big deal. It's huge. I mean, you're talking about, you know, a guy who was a judge and now they're saying you no longer can be one. Yeah. Well, when you use state equipment to look at your porn and not knowing what type of porn he was looking at, that could also have a... Well, I think any type of porn would be bad, but I see what you're getting at. Yeah. If that's what happened. You know, I got to say that. Sure. Some of this, was an allegation made by, you know, one of Linda's friends.

Tate Williams told Dateline that Lyndon Phil had a good business relationship, but they were unable to work through personal issues. The divorce settlement took a long time because Lyndon Phil fought over business, money, property, and pensions. Lyndon Phil sold the hotel when they divorced, according to Fox 13. Now, a lot of people get divorced. They do. It's never easy.

Some are easier than others. When you have multiple businesses, when you have a ton of money and children, and, you know, it becomes tougher and tougher. It does. There are extra layers involved when you have to sell businesses and houses to divide up money. So it can take a lot longer. According to Tim Loggins, Phil got almost everything in the divorce.

but Linda appealed. The judge said it could take another 17 months and Phil collapsed and asked if it would ever end. Linda was also said to have been afraid of Phil according to Tim. So, you know, the first thing that jumped out at me was Phil got almost everything in the divorce. Lucky. You don't hear that very often. No. I just went through one that didn't work out that way. You didn't get almost everything? No. No. And normally, in, a man and wife marriage, the man doesn't get everything. If anything, normally it's, I'm not saying everything, but the wife definitely should get her share and sometimes even gets a little bit more, depending on how much the husband makes or what the circumstances are. So that

one just struck me as a little odd. And then you have this allegation that Linda was afraid of Phil. Linda's son, Butch talked a dateline about a period of two years in the early 2000s.

When Linda was very sick, blood work revealed that she had a high level of mercury in her system. Apparently she suspected

that Phil might have been behind this. Linda's close friend, Rebecca O'Neill said in her 2019 police

interview that Phil used to hit Linda and that Linda was scared of Phil. Linda changed

her life. kept a gun in her nightstand and asked Tim Loggins to help her install a security system. So now we're getting a little more insight into why maybe Linda was afraid of Phil. If he was abusive, if he struck her, then you could see why she would have been afraid of him. Of course, yeah. Maybe that's kind of part of the divorce was just give him everything. Well, you're bringing up a good point because to me it was out of the. the ordinary. Could there have been something behind the scenes that scared her so much that she

signed off on something that she didn't want to do? But she had to. But she felt as though she had to for her own personal safety. Now, we have no idea what that would be. And I don't know that there have been any allegations that that happened. We're just kind of talking about possibilities. After the divorce, Linda moved back to Pocahontas and started dating someone several months later. She was also looking into finding a lobbying job after losing her seat in the Senate. Linda went to Washington, D.C. in late May 2019 for a job hunting trip. She stopped in Arizona after her trip to Washington because she wanted to go dancing with her cousins for her birthday. Rebecca O'Donnell picked her up from the airport.

on May 27, 2019. Linda was last seen a lot on May 28th, 2019. She last talked to her daughter on the 27th. Linda said that her interview went well and everything seemed fine. Two days later, Tate texted Linda a picture of some shoes, and Linda didn't respond, which was unusual, but she thought her mom was just busy. As more days passed, without anyone hearing from Linda,

Tate grew concerned. She lived two hours away. But Butch Smith lived in Pocahontas. After a week of not hearing from her mother, she called Butch and asked him to go to Linda's house to check on her. Butch drove by and saw Linda's truck in the driveway. She didn't answer the door, but everything seemed normal at the house. The next day, June 4th, Tate called her grandfather Benny Collins. This was Linda's father because he had a key to the house. She was on the phone with him when he got there. He noticed that Linda's truck was unlocked, which was highly unusual because Linda never left her car unlocked. He went to the back door and was able to open it. He walked through the house calling Linda's name, but couldn't find her. Linda's house was under

renovation at that time. So I guess it was pretty messy, which anybody who's gone through a pretty big renovation knows that your house can get super, super messy. Majorly messy. Benny saw a large dark stain on the kitchen floor. Tate offered to call Butch, who arrived at the house just a few minutes later. At first, Butch thought the stainless coffee that had been spilled on the floor because Linda was a heavy coffee drinker,

just like myself. Oh, say, just as you are? Yeah. People are sending me so much coffee that it's hard for me to drink it. But I always get a kick because I always get an email. How'd you like the coffee? And it's always good. Yeah.

I very rarely have bad coffee, but I'm getting to try some kind of unusual ones, and I really like them. You're digging it, huh? Yeah, but I do drink a lot of coffee. Now, they sent Tate a video of the stain, and she thought it was blood. They found Linda's suitcase with the tag still on it, and they couldn't find her purse or cell phone. So, I mean, let's just stop for a minute and talk about kind of what this scene would mean to someone. Let's say you. Yeah. You walk in, you see this stain.

Apparently it's not obvious, whether it's blood, it's coffee. Some people's opinions differ. The suitcases are found with the tags still on. Okay, to me that doesn't mean a lot. No. Usually when I go to take a trip, I'm taking the tags off from the last trip. Yeah, same here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's just not something that I worry. about. Now, you could make something out of the fact that they're not open. The clothes haven't been used. They haven't been put away, maybe, something like that. But the tags on them don't mean a lot to me. Now, they might have known that Linda was a very different person. But when you then can't find her purse or cell phone, to me, that is a big deal. If my wife's not here, but her purse and cell phone are, I'm a little worried right away. If you walk in the house and see this big stain and you see your mom's purse and wallet or cell phone, but you can't find mom anywhere, that's concerning.

I would have to be concerned. Butch and his grandpa closed up the house and were walking to their cars when they smelled a foul odor. Benny asked Butch to check a tarp on top of some construction material, which was being held down with a brick. Butch lifted up the tarp and found his mother's. body. Linda was laying face down with her arms above her head and was wrapped in a comforter. So right off the bat, I have to ask the question, how horrible would it be to find your mother's dead body? Oh, horrific. Yeah. I mean, I would fall to pieces. I don't know how I recover from, from something like that. Number one, just knowing that she's dead, but then finding her and seeing

her like that and maybe that having be the last image that I have of her, that would be horrible. But then the second part, the fact that she's wrapped in a comforter, what do you make of that? Fow play. I mean, immediately you're thinking foul play. You're thinking, did somebody care a little bit for her to do that instead of just dragging her body out? Yeah, that's where my mind was kind of going. Foul play for sure.

But if you have the tarp that is hiding the body, why do you need the comforter? Unless the comforter was needed to sneak the body out of the house, you could make that argument. But I think you could also make the argument that maybe this was someone who not only knew her, but cared for her and wrapped her up in, I know this sounds strange, but almost a loving way. Yeah. It also makes it easier to move the body. It does. it in something you can pull on it instead of trying to pull on the body and leaving a trail, whatever.

So it definitely could be a number of things. Butch called 911. The Magnolia reporter wrote that the Randolph County Sheriff's Office issued a statement that the condition of the body prevented any immediate positive identification. Linda's body was sent to Little Rock to be identified and for her cause of death to be determined. The Arkansas State Crime Laboratory Medical Examiner's Office eventually determined that Linda died of multiple stab wounds. But her injuries were initially reported as gunshot. So that's a little rough to hear.

You know, now you know what the kids saw. Yeah, gruesome sight for sure. Hard to recognize, hard to identify. It was reported that there were no signs of forced entry, which. suggested to authorities that Linda most likely knew her killer. You know, that comes up in a lot of cases. Yeah. Now, I don't think it holds true 100% of the time. Obviously, nothing does because you technically could open the door for a stranger. You could and I think a lot of people do. And that stranger could bull rush you and, and hurt you or or something like that. But I think a lot of times it ends up

being you let this person in because you knew them. They didn't have to break in. They were already inside. Tim Loggins and Becky O'Donnell came to the crime scene and spoke to the police. Becky said she picked Linda up at the airport on May 27th. They spoke to Tim while they drove home. She claimed she didn't know the exact travel details because she had lost her phone. On May 28th, Linda texted her and asked her to bring lunch to the house. Linda told her that Rendell Wallace, her boyfriend, spent the night at the house and left early that day. Linda said it took Rendell four hours to respond to her text and calls. Becky said she shouldn't be upset and that they needed to slow down and take things easy. During their final call, Linda mentioned going to Rendell's place.

According to the dayline, Becky said, I thought you didn't want me in your personal stuff, don't tell me, Linda hung up on her. She didn't show up for a meeting at the motel later that day. So, you know, we're getting some more information. But keep in mind, all of this that we just talked about is coming from one person. Sure, one source. Becky O'Donnell. Tim Loggins told investigators that Rendell was probably the last person to see Linda.

The police spoke with Wallace on June 4th, 2019, they learned that he and Linda had dated before and drifted apart. They were reacquainted just a couple of weeks before she died. Apparently, Linda called Rendell and asked him to come over when she got home from her trip. He spent the night and said that he laughed at 7 a.m. He texted Linda several times and she didn't answer, but he just thought maybe she was in meetings. Now, both of Linda's children suspected that Phil Smith was. was involved because of the divorce. I mean, that's a possibility when you're thinking about it.

Yeah. And I think authorities, I'm sure, would look at this guy. Relationship goes south. There's a divorce. Ex-husband. That person's always going to be looked at. And I think especially when it comes out, these allegations that maybe he was physical with Linda.

That's another element. It is. And police are going to want to look into that. that Phil Smith denied killing Linda. And he also denied to both the police and Dateline, the allegations against him. He said he had not heard the accusation that he tried to poison Linda. He said he didn't do that. He acknowledged that they had a bitter divorce, but said he was not physically violent,

emotionally abusive, and did not stalk Linda. Now, I don't know if that is something that most people, would admit on dateline. But these are also allegations made by third parties. Is there corroboration? I don't know that there was. That's a tough sell, right? It is.

It is. It's also a tough position to be in to try to defend yourself if you really didn't do this after the person who people have said was your victim has been killed. Yeah. They can't help you. hurt you. They can't say what was the truth. Linda's case was sealed on June 5th, 2019, which left the media with many questions. Circuit court judge Harold Irwin issued a gag order on documents and statements obtained by law enforcement during the investigation. After the gag

order was issued, there were many conspiracy theories that Linda's murder was politically motivated. I bet there was all kind of theories floating around. Well, there are conspiracy theories in any case until something is proven, right? We cover that all the time on true crime all the time on solved. But here you have a person who was pretty powerful, had some power. And we said, tried to pass what was said to have been a very controversial bill. Could somebody have been mad enough about that bill, even though it didn't pass, to want to harm her? Possibly. Something that you'd have to consider.

On June 7th, the Arkansas State Police confirmed that the remains found on June 4th were, in fact, Linda Collins. The police saw that Linda's security cameras were taken down, but they didn't know when they had been taken down. Linda received emails when her cameras picked up something. Her daughter was able to get into her email account and saw notifications from May 28th, 2019. So Tate, her daughter, called the police and reported it, confirming that the cameras were running on the day of the murder. All right. Pretty big deal. It's a huge deal.

Number one, the fact that she had security cameras that were then taken down. So who took them down? You can easily surmise that whoever took them down also killed her because they didn't want that footage of them to be discovered. Sure. But you have her daughter who's very resourceful. A lot of kids are, is able to break into her email and finds out that they were up on the 28th, which means most likely she was alive up until that point. Now you have more of a timeline.

Yeah, more of a defined timeline. Investigators also learned that someone had logged into Linda's account after she died. some videos had been deleted, but the security company was able to provide videos from May 28. So now you have someone who thinks that they're super smart. They're covering all their bases, right, taking down the security cameras,

figuring out a way to delete the videos. What they don't know is that the videos are backed up somewhere off site. Yeah. So they're not gone. No. and that's what I keep talking about. What really is gone in today's age? Well, in today's age, I don't think anything's gone.

I think you think it's gone, but it's floating up there somewhere on the cloud. And when you looked up, I'm assuming you meet the cloud. You literally looked up at my ceiling. I'm like, yeah, it's floating around up there. But, you know, I do believe that. You know, these messages that kids are sending back and forth,

You know, if you're sending racy pictures of yourself. Yeah. And you think someone's deleted it. Have they? Or have they sent it off to someone else? And the next thing you know, it's on websites. Before you know it. And you can never get rid of it.

The police received the security footage on June 14th, 2019, the day of Linda's visitation. In this footage, they saw Becky leave the house, just like she said she did. Three hours later, the garage camera picked up a woman screaming. A video on the night of the murder showed someone hiding under a white sheet and sneaking into the house. Investigators continued watching and eventually figured out who killed Linda. It was Becky O'Donnell. Becky O'Donnell was arrested for the murder of Linda Collins that same day. The police actually arrested her while she was on her way to Linda's visitation.

How strange is it that she was on her way to pay respects to a woman that she actually killed that will come out later that she killed? But she has to keep up appearances, right? What would it look like if she doesn't show up to the visitation? Yeah, I mean, she's doing what she should be doing if she was trying to get away with something. Yes. Yeah.

The problem is they already know it's her. The police found inconsistencies and Becky's statements. apparently she lied about losing her cell phone. Becky said she and Linda spoke on the phone after their argument, but she hadn't seen her since. But she did say she stopped by the house once to check on Linda. However, Tim Loggin said Becky stopped at the house more than once. Also, Butch Smith said that when he went to his mom's house the first time, on June 3rd, Becky was also there knocking on the door. Both of Linda's children told Dateline that they were concerned. with Linda's closeness with Becky and Tim.

Linda was very protective of her personal information and money. So they thought it was strange. How involved Becky was with Linda's personal information and the fact that Tim had power of attorney during the divorce. And according to divorce records from the Arkansas Administrative Office of the Courts, Rebecca O'Donnell appeared as a corroborating witness. in Linda's divorce case and Tim Loggins served as power of attorney for Linda Collin. So, you know, yes, these are friends, but man, they are very involved in some crucial things.

Sure. In her life. In her life. And then, you know, you hear from her kids, she's very protective of her personal information. Records show that in October 2018, Phil Smith filed an emergency motion. in the Randolph County Circuit Court involving Tim Loggins because he had power of attorney, the motion was about a tax refund worth more than $50,000. Phil Smith wanted half of the money because he said they were marital funds.

Okay, I get the fact that they were marital funds. What I want to know is who in the hell is getting a tax refund of $50,000? Exactly. How do you get that? I want one of those. Me too. Butch Smith also told police that in the days before Linda was killed, money was missing from his grandfather's account. Linda had access to this account, but But Butch said she would never have taken her dad's money. And it turned out that the handwriting on the checks was not Linda's handwriting.

They knew that Becky had access to those accounts. Becky told the police that she signed the checks with Linda's permission. and that she signed Linda's name on checks with Linda's permission. You think they believe that? No. No. Now, I get it. Some people, you know, might have somebody in their life that handles their finances.

And they might give some type of power to them like that. I go back to what her kid said. She was very protective of her personal information, her money. Right. I can't imagine that she's just going to get. over power to someone to write checks kind of willy-nilly, that doesn't make sense. Even her best friend. Yeah.

Even her best friend. Investigators believe Becky may have stolen up to $50,000 from Linda. The police theorized that Linda's daughter tipped her off about the checks and she wanted to talk to Becky about it. They believe that Linda confronted Becky about the money stolen from her father's account and possibly money missing from the motel and that Becky killed Linda during this confrontation. And I get a police come up with theories all the time, right? And then they work to find the evidence that supports those or, you know, corroborates them. But just looking at the theory on its own,

you can see that it does make some sense. Becky's already admitted. She wrote the checks. Right. there's thought that Linda would never have allowed this. Now, you know, you find out that money was taken from her father's account. And so you can imagine her at some point after finding out wanting to confront Becky about this. Now, what happens in Becky's mind if she's confronted? Uh-oh, I'm in big trouble. Yeah. I could go to jail.

Still in money. I'm forging signatures. I'm doing all this stuff. so do I have to do something drastic so that this never comes out? You know, obviously these are things that the police are thinking about. And Rebecca had been accused of theft in the past. According to NAA report in 2014, a business owner named Melissa Jones hired Rebecca O'Donnell. She knew Rebecca because she was friends with her sister.

They talked about Jones Consignment Store. and Rebecca asked if she was hiring. Jones said that she had an open cashier position for $10 an hour. Rebecca didn't want to work for $10 an hour. Jones offered her the job temporarily until she could find a higher paying job. It's pretty nice of her. A good person. Well, it sounds like she's trying to help her out.

Most people, you know, they wouldn't hire someone that they didn't know with it right out front in the open that they don't. that they don't really want the job, you know, and say, well, just do it temporarily. You know, that does sound like a person trying to help another person out. Yeah. And maybe she was doing that for her sister since they were friends. Maybe. Maybe. Probably.

In October 2014, Jones learned that an employee caught Rebecca putting a bag of designer jeans behind an outdoor dumpster. She called the police and Rebecca asked her not to press charges because, of her children. She told Rebecca to leave the store. Rebecca's sister sent her a Facebook message telling her that she wished she would have pressed charges because she had recently learned that Rebecca had stolen from other people. She claimed Rebecca stole her mother's retirement money about $160,000. Wow, that's not easy to take. Well, that's not a bag of designer jean. No. That is a boatload of money. Yeah. And that's not a lot of money.

Yeah, and that's not going to sit good with your family. No, because, you know, it's from family. You're stealing from family. Your sister's mad at you because, number one, that's her mom as well. Sure. She wants her to have enough money to live out the rest of her life. But also, she's probably thinking someday some of that's going to be mine. Yeah.

And maybe. Now, mom can't go where we want her to go. So she's living with us. Yeah. That could absolutely be the case. And you know who's probably not going to want to take care of her? Becky O'Donnell. Exactly.

Additionally, in 2007, Becky's former husband, Jeff O'Donnell, reported to the police that Becky was trying to have him killed. A friend said that Becky was offering $50,000 to kill her husband. Becky admitted that she had talked about it, but said she was drunk and wasn't being serious. No charges were filed. She got off easy there. Well, I get it. You're going to try to play it off as though it was a joke. Yeah. I was drunk. I didn't really mean it. But you're soliciting murder. Yeah. Let's not downplay it. No joke for the rest of the people. No, I'm really shocked that no charges were filed. To be honest with you, you could get quite a few people probably to kill your husband for $50,000. I don't think it'd be too hard to do. I think you'd probably get a few people. even for less than that. Oh, absolutely. We know we've done cases where, you know, people have killed

for much, much less. Now, none of this information was public knowledge at the time due to this gag order that we talked about. On June 17th, 2019, Rebecca O'Donnell was charged with capital murder, abuse of a corpse, and tampering with physical evidence. On June 16th, Tim Loggins talked to Good Morning America about Linda's murder. He said he had no idea why Rebecca was arrested on suspicion of capital murder. He said he was the one who told Rebecca that Linda was dead. K-A-I-T-8 reported that when she heard the news, she collapsed. Over a week after the murdered, they were on the way to Linda's memorial service

when they were pulled over by the police. Tim said they stopped us with my 13-year-old son in the truck. We stopped. And they have AR-15s pointed at us. You could see the look of utter disbelief in her face, not knowing what was going on. You could just see it. So obviously, you know,

here's a guy who is shocked by the arrest. He doesn't believe that Rebecca could have anything to do with it. Because it's her best friend. But I think there's one thing you have to ponder. And it's whether, you know, this is genuine surprise. that Tim is expressing, or if he knows more than he's willing to say at this point. Loggins said about Becky's relationship with Linda.

They were close. You got to understand. Becky worked for Linda, but Linda was a family friend. It was like Becky's sister. Linda was like my sister. Loggins also talked about their involvement in the divorce case and how he was under scrutiny when he served as Linda's power of attorney. he told GMA.

I didn't want to do it, but Linda needed the help. And you help a friend when they need it. I never made a nickel off of helping Linda do any of that, period. So again, you got to wade through what's being said and figure out what's true, what's not true. If what he is saying is true,

then you would have to think it puts him in the camp of not having anything to do with this murder at all. Right. We'll have to wait and see if that's the case. Login said he was 100% certain that Rebecca had nothing to do with Linda's murder. He also denied any involvement on his part saying she's not capable of this. Either she is the best actress in the world and completely fooled me or there's not a chance she did this. I'm going with there's not a chance she did this.

Now one thing I will say, and it does crop up in many cases, I do think it's very hard for friends and family to believe that someone they know, someone they love, someone they're very close with could do something like what the police are claiming they've done. Right. Yeah. That's not an easy thing to just accept. I do think you're going to fight that. You're going to say there's no way until maybe it's proven beyond the shadow of a doubt.

Until then, though, you're going to probably stand by your belief that she didn't have anything to do with this. Yeah. And I think a lot of friends would do that and family as well. On July 30th, 2019, prosecutors sought the death penalty against Rebecca O'Donnell. The arrest affidavit was released that same day. The affidavit revealed that home security footage shows Rebecca removing security cameras

six days before Linda was found. Okay, that's pretty damning. It is. Pretty hard to explain why you felt as though you, needed to remove security cameras, if you didn't do anything you were afraid somebody was going to find out about. Yeah, it's kind of premeditated there. So this was a big deal, right? Because they'd had this gag order. Really, no information had been released. Now you have this bombshell. The judge also allowed the release of a redacted affidavit criminal information, pleadings,

and other motions. But the prosecution, defense, and law enforcement, were ordered not to make extra judicial statement. So it sounds like he wasn't lifting it completely, but some information was getting out. The Northwest Arkansas Democrat Gazette reported that a spokeswoman for the community correction division said Rebecca was on probation from 2010 to 2013 for theft. She was ordered to pay a $1,000 fine in $2,681 in rest of, So she had a history of theft?

Yeah, I mean, we talked about some already. I don't know that police were contacted every time. She talked her way out of some stuff. But obviously, whatever this was for, she didn't. She got three years probation, had to pay back some money. On January 14th, 2020, Rebecca O'Donnell was accused of attempting to hire Jackson County jail inmates to kill Linda's ex-husband, Phil Smith. former judge Harold Irwin and prosecutor Henry Boyce, according to court documents.

Rebecca was charged with two counts of solicitation to commit capital murder and two counts of solicitation to commit tampering with physical evidence. She keeps going from bad to worse. She's not helping her situation. No, she's definitely not helping it. She's hurting it, if anything. Now, she could have thought, what do I have to lose? They got a lot of evidence against me.

I don't know. But when you try to have three people killed. Yeah. And you're already being held for murder. It's not looking good for you. Not looking good for you at all. A probable cause affidavit was released on January 14th, 2020, stating that Rebecca O'Donnell attempted to hire her cellmates to kill Phil Smith and his wife.

In October 2019, she told a cellmate that she wanted. that she wanted Phil Smith's death to look like a suicide, and she wanted the note to be left at the scene. She also wanted them to kill Phil's wife. Now, instead of paying her cellmates, she told them to steal gold and silver from the house. O'Donnell said she was targeting Smith because he, quote, set her up. She also asked these people to find her car in police custody and burn planted evidence.

And I already mentioned it, but, you know, these inmates reported that she also asked them to kill Judge Harold Irwin and prosecutor Henry Boyce. She wanted Phil Smith gone because according to her, he had set her up. And then these other two, right, the judge and the prosecutor were out to get her. But here's the thing that I never understand. She would not have been the first person to have one of the judge killed, a prosecutor killed. do these people really think that if these people go away, that their case just magically disappears? Yeah, I don't think she's the brightest bulb. Yeah. Well, obviously not because she wouldn't have done all the things she did.

But do you not think that they're going to get another judge? Do you not think they have another prosecutor in the stable? Now, you might delay things a little while. But eventually. But it's not going away. So I never understand that. Yeah. It's like, well, the judge is gone.

The prosecutor is gone. So all these cases just... We give up. Just throw them in the dumpster. We got to let all these people go. According to CNN, Rebecca's fiancee issued a statement on the new charges. We cannot imagine the evidence will substantiate these allegations. The allegations defy believability.

I won't even comment on the informant's extensive criminal history, but instead, we'll wait to see if the state produces credible evidence at Trump. Okay, again, you know, saying the same thing. This is her fiance. I'm sure he doesn't want to believe that she's really capable of this. Well, I think she's very good at lying and pulling the wall over his eyes. So yeah, I mean, he is going to believe what she tells him. Yeah, absolutely. Now, if you would like to read in depth the ballot the inmates statements, you can find the probable cause affidavit online. I'm not going to read it here. It would make the episode really, really long, but it is very interesting.

Rebecca's attorney Lee Short gave a statement to ABC News and cast doubt on the inmates' statements. He brought up the fact that inmates are offered reduced punishment in exchange for cooperation and three out of four inmates who came forward were awaiting trial in a scheme to steal a man's social security debit card information. Short told ABC, it's not surprising at all. In inmates do it all the time. In high-profile cases, especially homicides, people tend to seek opportunities to improve their situations by giving statements against people.

And I would have to say that's absolutely true. based off the history and the research that we've done. Yeah. I mean, how many times have inmates come forward given statements in exchange for something? Maybe it's leniency on their sentence. And then you find out later that what they said was complete be it. Not saying it happens every time.

But it happens a lie. Well, it happens because there's a real vested interest. Of course. in them doing it because they're getting something in return. And that something could be very, very valuable to them. Yeah, especially if they get out of prison earlier. Or right then and there or whatever it is.

The Washington Post reviewed public divorce records and learned that Linda and Phil were fighting over the whereabouts of $28,000 worth of gold and silver coins. Phil said he found about $4,000 worth of coins, but he and Linda said in court that they didn't know where the other $24,000 worth of coins were. A judge ordered them to find the coins. A September court settlement noted that they didn't find them. Linda's estate was ordered to pay Phil $10,000 as a replacement value for the coins. On January 29, 2020, Rebecca appeared in court to plead not get. guilty to all the new charges, the judge modified the gag order and lifted the order barring disclosure of information from the medical examiner's office, Arkansas State Crime Lab,

and the Arkansas FBI. On April 30th, prosecutors alleged that Rebecca killed Linda for money. Special prosecuting attorney Robert Dietrich filed a notice for aggravated circumstances, stating that Rebecca committed the murder for monetary gain and to avoid or prevent arrest. Dietrich took on the case in December 2019 after Henry Boyce withdrew. Now, why did Henry withdraw from the case? I don't know for sure. It might have had something to do with the threats on his life. That's a good reason.

But there again, it's not like the case just fell apart. they just got a new prosecutor and the case moves forward. In May 2020, the judge signed a warrant for Linda's accounts and records, including her Google account, location history, web, and activity, email address, names, addresses, phone numbers, and IP addresses from May 25th through June 4th. Amazing, you know, all the stuff that they can get on you. Well, and just think about what all that information could tell you.

We've talked before about how some. Some people believe, you know, deleting things off their computer or clearing their browsing history kind of just wipes everything away. But it really doesn't. No, it does not. It's amazing what people can recover from a computer. And, you know, more and more, I think they can recover it with even, without even having the computer.

It really is amazing. I mean, we even talked about it in the unsolved case that, you know, came out the same time this case did. I'm telling you Google knows everything you do. Google, man, that scares me on what they know. They hear you. Like right now, our phones are nearby. They're listening to us.

I know. Yeah. And, you know, all we can, I can say, you know what, I'm looking for a, think about buying a new SUV. And you know what? I guarantee you when we're done, you'll get an ad. There'll be an ad on there for some new SUVs. Well, I'll tell you this.

Every time we get a new sponsor, one that I've never heard of or never dealt with. I always do a little research. Yeah. And invariably, the next time I go on YouTube, you know what the first ad is that pops up. Oh, whatever this ad is. Thing is that I just researched. Yeah. That scares the you know what out of me. In May 2020, investigators announced that a search warrant was issued in April to allow the police to search a Ford Focus owned by Rebecca's mother. And a search warrant was issued to allow the police to search computer towers, computers, and storage devices owned by Linda and or her hotel. The Randolph County Sheriff's Office searched the vehicle and sent it to the state crime lab for

DNA analysis during a June 12th, 2020 pretrial hearing. Judge John Fogelman announced that he would be unsealing at least 51 documents, but he didn't say when. Prosecutor Dietrich hinted to ABC in a June 2020 interview that the arguments he planned to present would be quite scientific and that the investigation was almost complete. He declined to say a motive or theory, but did say the pecuniary gain aspect is an allegation that $15,000 in gold had been stolen by Becky from Linda and various possible information about the motel. We're still trying to flesh out. The $15,000 was money. that was taken from the motel, we believe.

So we just talked about quite a bit of missing gold. Sounds like they're saying that a large chunk of that was stolen by Becky. Yeah, I think that's what they're alleging. One important motion filed by the defense before the June 12th hearing was that they would not contest the heinous nature of the crime and the bloody condition of Linda's body if the judge prohibited the display of crime scene photos at the trial. The defense wrote that Rebecca stipulates to the cause and manner of death and also to the location of the body in light of the defendant's stipulation and the fact that the photographs of the deceased are extremely grotesque. The photographs should not be admitted.

And I think this is just part of the cat and mouse game that you see in a lot of murder trials. Okay, the prosecution wants to show the jury these photos and they're going to be. nasty, they are really going to not paint a picture. They're going to show what really happened to this woman. And when they do that, if they can do that, the defense knows they're going to lose some people on that jury. Yeah. So why not make the effort to stipulate to these things if the pictures won't be shown? But it wasn't going to matter. Because on August 6th, 2020, Rebecca O'Donnell pleaded guilty to first degree murder and abuse of a court. So according to K-A-I-T-A, Rebecca said in court,

I went to Linda's house and I intentionally killed her and then hid the body. She also pleaded no contest to two counts of solicitation to commit capital murder. So basically, she's just saying, I did it all. With me. I did it. Rebecca was sentenced to 50 years in prison. She received 40 years for murder and three years for, abusing a corpse. Plus, seven years each for the two charges of solicitation to commit capital

murder, but those were set to run concurrent to the 43-year sentence. Butch Smith called the murder an awful deed carried out of hate, jealousy, and grief. He believes Rebecca was stealing money from his mother, and when Linda confronted her, she snapped. And he said, she stabbed my mother to death. in a fit of rage and perceived self-preservation to prevent herself from going to jail. And we kind of hinted at it, talked about it a little bit when we discussed the prosecution's theory. And it turned out that they were pretty spot on. Tim Loggins released a statement after the guilty plea, saying,

initially for various reasons, I believed with all my heart that Becky was innocent. no one wants to believe anyone close to them is capable of doing something so heinous. My heart at that time would not let me believe what I later learned to be true, that Becky murdered Linda. That realization was one of the most difficult of my life. To accept that I lived with someone so deviant, someone who could not only take a life, but the life of someone who helped her in so many ways.

Without any indication of the darkness and her heart was heartbreaking. Well, I bet it was because he was convinced he didn't do anything wrong. Yeah, but I also think there was some suspicion on him as well. We kind of talked about it. Could he be involved? Did people think he was involved? You know, people thought this power of attorney thing was a little strange. Was he also maybe pilfering some money?

It sounds like he wasn't. But then you find out that, okay, they obviously must have investigated him. He was never charged with anything. So it sounds like what he had said in all of his statements was true. He was helping out Linda. Right. She asked him to be her power of attorney and he didn't get anything out of it. And he certainly didn't abuse it is what it sounds like.

But he was definitely blindsided by Rebecca. Oh, no doubt. And I think it goes back to what you and I were talking about. Who wants to believe? Someone they love. Someone they've known for a long time is capable of. of doing something like this is very tough. After the guilty plea,

a 313 page investigative file was released. The following quotes come from K-A-I-T-8 in the Arkansas Times. According to inmate interviews, Rebecca was caught on camera with a bloody knife in Linda's home. They also had the footage from the security company. One video from Linda's driveway at 4.48 p.m.

has audio of a woman believed to be Linda screaming from inside the house. Two videos from inside cameras show Rebecca holding a bloody knife near the area where Linda was killed. The other video shows her leaving the house with a red purse and a camera. Investigators believe that Rebecca took Linda's phone, which was also missing. The phone had the app that Linda used to manage her security account. Rebecca also tried to remove Linda's security cameras after she was found dead. According to the file, O'Donnell stated that they had removed cameras from Linda's residence after Linda had been found murdered.

Rebecca said they were returned because they weren't working. All right. So she took them down thinking maybe they might have something on them. And she got rid of them and just told the police that we just returned them because they weren't working. Yeah. Yeah. So that was her. Well, yeah, so she's got to come up with a reason, right, for why she took the cameras down.

Rebecca reportedly told inmate Cassandra Geofreon that there is video of her buying bleach and a video of her holding a knife with blood on her while standing over the body of Linda Collins. Rebecca claimed that after she picked up Linda from the airport, she cut up chicken for her and that law enforcement made the video look like. she was covered in blood. She's got an answer for everything. Yes, she does. You know, I've cut up a lot of chicken in my life. Yeah. I've even cut live chickens.

I'm assuming that's not what she's talking about here. When I get a whole chicken from the grocery or I'm cutting up some Tyson chicken breasts. You're not getting bloody, are you? No, not at all. Nope. It's not even going to look like it in any way, shape, or form. Yeah. Now, unless she was killing a live chicken.

chicken inside the house inside the kitchen then what she's saying just doesn't make sense well a lot of the stuff she says doesn't make sense yeah i get the feeling that you know at this point she's just grasping at straws just saying whatever she can say to make herself look even the tiniest bit better rebecca also talked to an inmate named patricia combs according to the arkansas times she was asked if rebecca had said anything about her current charges and the investigation Combs said that Rebecca told her that she and Tim Loggins took down the surveillance system and that Tim left one up and they had missed one. Rebecca said that she was seen on camera with a knife and blood, but she was just cutting up chicken. Combs told Rebecca that there isn't that much blood in chicken.

Rebecca laughed and said, girl, I was cutting up a chicken. Girl, I was cutting up a chicken. That's her answer. I don't know. I really don't know. Now, Rebecca didn't deny that she was covered in blood. She just kept trying to, you know, put it off as her cutting up chicken. Another inmate said that Rebecca claimed Linda was stabbed 16 times, but investigators haven't released that information. More information was released about Rebecca's plot to kill Phil Smith,

the judge and prosecutor, and more information was released about the gold silver coins. Additionally, when one inmate refused to participate in Rebecca's murder for hire plot, she asked another inmate to kill her. You don't want to kill for me? I'll get somebody to kill you. How you like that? She's trying to have everybody killed. She's a character. I don't know if character's strong enough. She's something else. I don't know what to call her at this point. Rebecca's plan was to make it seem like Phil Smith killed his wife and then took his own life. She planned to frame Henry Boyce by making it look like he framed her to cover up what she called his misdeeds. She wrote suicide notes and gave them to inmate Cassandra Geofreon. The FBI determined

that Rebecca wrote the notes, probably not too hard in analyzing. In analyzing the handwriting. inmate said that Rebecca also wanted a computer expert to send a virus to the Arkansas Crime Lab computers as well as her lawyer's computers to destroy the security system evidence. Yeah, you find that in the way you're sitting in prison, you know, hey, a hacker. Yeah, can you do me a favor? That has no access to a computer. But also, you know, here again, is she thinking that there's still not a copy of this back at the security place. I mean, I truly believe that, like, this was her thinking. When they got it

from the security place, that was it, right? There is no other copy. Yeah. When in fact, you're just making a copy of whatever they have there. Exactly. Most likely. It's not like an original document. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. I don't think she understood that. No, I don't, I don't think she understood the technical side of things at all. I think that's pretty plain to see, you know, as you go through all the, um, the evidence. Rebecca told the inmate that she would be paid with gold and silver. And Rebecca explained how she took it and sold it for $15,000 to $18,000, according to the report. On November 8th, 2019, Phil Smith told the ASP that about $25,000 worth of gold and silver coins were missing from Linda's home when he went to get the box.

they were stored in, they were gone. But Smith said, but those people knew about it. They knew that that money was there and that those coins were there and that Linda had done something. And this quote refers to Rebecca and Tim Boggins. Phil Smith also said that Linda told him she couldn't find the coins either. So I said Tim kind of had this cloud hanging over him for a period of time. It sounds like Phil Smith was a little suspicious as a

him as well. Well, you know, Tim and Rebecca were close. They did things together. And they were close to Linda. And that's the key. Reports show that on September 25th, 2018, Rebecca traveled to Little Rock and sold 22 gold coins and two rings to gold and diamond prospectors for $3,000. On October 18th, she sold $4,590 worth of coins to Memphis gold buyers on November 6,000. On November 6th,000, she sold $4,590 worth of coins to Memphis gold buyers on November 6th. She went to the same store and sold $7,520 worth of coins. So in total, she earned a little over $15,000 from these three transactions. On December 14th, 2021, the Arkansas State Police released a large portion of the case file. A judge ordered them to release it after several members of the media filed a lawsuit.

One report shows that investigators found blood and chlorox in the case. the kitchen and that the bottle had what looked like blood smeared on the nozzle. Fox 16 reported that Rebecca is incarcerated in another state and her location cannot be made public. As we wrap up this case gives, Linda Collins was murdered by someone she thought she could trust, someone she thought cared about her, someone that she cared about. It's possible that if Rebecca O'Dama had managed to delete the security footage from cloud storage, she might have gotten away with murder.

Maybe. So I mean, definitely you could say that technology led to a fast resolution in this case. You know, if Rebecca O'Donnell knew a little bit more about how technology worked, could she have gotten away with it? Maybe. Possibly. Possibly. But she didn't.

No, she didn't. And that's a good thing. But there's no doubt in my mind. You know, this is a greed story. This was a greedy woman. Yeah. Who wanted what her supposed friend had. And it was taking advantage of her.

It was pilfering. And I do believe Linda found out about it. She confronted her. And Rebecca thought, I got to eliminate her. Or I'm going to jail for a very long time. I'm going to do what I have to do. Keep yourself from going to jail. Like you said, she got caught.

She's going to be in jail for a long time. Anyway, I do also want to kind of go back to this Tim Loggins guy. Yeah. Because it does seem like he was a good guy, but he was so linked to Rebecca and to Linda as well. It seems pretty natural for people to at least be suspicious of him. Of course. Back early on.

Sounds like Phil was suspicious of him as well. But it turns out as for. far as I could tell, he had nothing to do with it. Yeah. No charges, no, you know, the police never said anything about it. So, you know, that would be tough. But obviously later on when it comes out, hopefully, you know, he's gone on to, to be fine. But there's the kids. Oh, yeah. As well. Yeah. Tate and Butch. Yeah. They lost their mother and, I don't know, just all around tough story. And it has nothing to do with her being high profile, a politician,

nothing like that. What's really scary about this case for me is thinking that you're really good friend. Because everything I took from this was that they were really good friends. Right. Could kill you over some money. Greed, man. Yeah, greed is powerful and it makes people do unbelievably bad things. But that's it for our episode on Rebecca O'Donnell.

We've got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Yes, here. Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Alani from South Florida. I just want to say that I love your podcast. I'm a fairly early listener. And you two do one thing that I love, which is absolutely call all these people out on every

dumb decision they've ever made. Anyway, as I said, I'm a fairly early listener. So I wouldn't know for sure. But I was wondering if you have covered the Michelle Young murder case. It took place in North Carolina, I believe. There was this young mother who was found in her home and her toddler was in the house. Anyways, her husband was convicted of the crime. But I heard there was a lot of controversy with the evidence.

And it was actually one of my very first true crime cases, like one of the ones that caught my eye. Anyway, I keep doing what you're doing and keep your own time thinking. Thank you. Oh, thanks for the voicemail. No, I don't think we've done that case. I don't even know if I've heard of that. I don't know if we have. No, so we need to look into it for a future episode, definitely.

Hi, Michael Gibby. My name is Killeen. I'm calling from North Carolina. I just wanted to say I absolutely love your guys' podcast. Listen to you guys all the time that you guys have helped me out so much with my depression, anxiety and all that. And yeah, the topics you guys cover absolutely phenomenal. And as someone who studies social work and psychology well studied, I have those bachelor

degrees now. I want to go into something crime-related or something helping out with victims, whether it's victims of crime, various crime, sexual assault, anything like that. And yeah, your guys' show has inspired me with that. And I did also want to comment, as someone with autism, it's not offensive at all to say autistic child or autistic person. It varies between person to person, whether they prefer identity or identity first language or person-first language. Most autistic people that I have personally come across prefer identity-first language. So using autistic person rather than person with autism. But yeah, it just depends on person-to-person as with anything.

But yeah, I'm hoping you guys are having a great day and keep your own time picking. Yeah, thank you so much for calling in. It's very interesting because, you know, the person that left that voicemail saying that we should be using person first language or first person language or however it's termed, sent me an email the very next day after the voicemail aired saying that they were talking to an autistic person with whom they work and this person corrected them and said, no, you're wrong. It's okay either way.

And echoed what she just said, which is actually most autistic people prefer the other way. Now, what I've heard from from many listeners is that what we did well was using both because you're not picking one way or the other because you don't know what the intended target prefers. Exactly. So it's actually good from what I'm hearing to sprinkle in some of both. Yeah.

But it's not offensive. to use either one. That's good to know. So it's a good clarification. All right, buddy, we had no mailbag. So that is it for this episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gabey, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.