True Crime All The Time - Richard Ramirez "The Night Stalker"

Episode Date: February 5, 2018

To many, the mere thought of Richard Ramirez evokes terror. During the mid 1980s, Ramirez terrorized the Los Angeles and San Francisco areas as a serial killer, rapist, and burglar. He murdered at least 13 people and victimized many more. The press would dub him "The Night Stalker".Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss this serial killer whose talk of Satanism and lack of remorse for his crimes would captivate the world. What happened to Richard Ramirez during his formative years that may have led him to become him the monster he did? You can help support the show by going to patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeCheck out the show's website at www.truecrimeallthetime.com for contact and merchandise information.Help support the show by supporting our sponsor Havenly, the easiest way to get professional interior design help at a reasonable price. Visit havenly.com/tcatt today to get 25% off your design package.Credits:Writing/Research - Maggie Dobschuetz See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 64 of the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, what is going on? Yeah, I'm feeling good. Me too, man. Yeah. It's like a Rocky Mountain High, man, just up there in the cloud. That good. That's, that's you every day. It's good, man. Just good. You actually sound high. I know you're not. I'm hoping it's just a Rocky Mountain. If I was actually in the Rocky Mountain, and Colorado, man. I think you can partake.

I think you'd fit right in. Fit in? In the old town of Denver. Denver. Or the state of Colorado. I don't know, Gibbs. I'm really excited about this episode. This is a subject that I've been waiting to do this guy since we started this podcast.

Let's not tell him who we're going to do yet. Now, we'll hold it back. Yeah. Let's do Patreon first. Let's do Patreon. All right. So we had a lot of new support. Awesome.

We had Gina Villa Riala. Yes. Michaela Mays. Caroline Louise G. If you say so. If I say it, it must be true. Ella Russell. Yeah.

Beverly Salman. Diana Mattson. Singha Robertson. Albertan. That's a mouthful. It is. It's long. That's a lot to write too.

Yeah. With the hyphenated part. She's a good social media. I don't know what I was going. going to say after that. All right. Good social media. We are, what, just two minutes into this episode?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she's, again, you'd ever just keep going. All right. Lisa Stobart. Oh, my gosh. Danielle Sampson, Limkeke. Yeah, Limbke. And got to be related.

That's the second Limkekee. Got a lot of Olympa keys out there, too. I think we got some Limba. We got two. We're on the way to getting the whole Lemkee family involved. That'd be cool if we had like a whole family, you know. T-Cat family. T-Cat family.

We do have the T-Cat family. And then you remember we had InFriender the other day. And this week we have no Friender thrash metal show. I don't know if that's another podcast or just a heavy metal band maybe? I don't know. Check it out. I mean, obviously thrash metal is not my favorite. Not anymore.

Not anymore. Had to let it go. I had to. It was causing a lot of neck pain from the headwhipage. Yeah. Well, it definitely messed your forehead up. They did. Where all the hair went?

Yeah. We had Jen Crenshaw. Crenshaw. I like that name. Robin H. Just H? Just H. What up H?

Make up any last name you want. That starts with H. Hula. Hula. Hulu? Hulu. I knew you were talking about Hulu and messed it up. You got whatever Flicks is up next.

That's right. We had Annie. Just Annie. Just Annie. Annie, you're going to be okay? She's okay because she's pledging. She's supporting us. What about Michael Jackson?

Annie, are you okay? Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. Andy got you gun? Was that a different song? It's definitely not the... That's Annie Oakley.

Yeah, that's definitely not the Michael Jackson song. Yeah. Huh. Let's keep rolling. We had Pala Hammond, Christy Marcel. She's French. I don't know what. You just love.

to say what people are and you have no clue. I don't. Cracks me up. Lindsay Greer and Katie Burgey. Katie Burgey? Yep. KB. So, and Katie came out at our highest level.

Awesome. So big thanks to everybody. Really appreciate it. And I forgot Gibbs, No Friender Thrash Metal Show came out to our highest level too. I didn't mention. That's cool. I really appreciate this.

Very cool. Yeah. And if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Selena Ginger, been a longtime supporter. so wanted to give a very special shout out to Selena. Appreciate that, Selena. It's just amazing.

The new support, the people that stay with us month after month, that allows us to keep doing the show. We love it. Hanging in there with us. Yep. Amazing. And then on PayPal, we had a lot of support there as well. We had Cynthia Kelly, Richard Williams, Gala Kyle, Jamie Laredo, and Laura Schaller.

That's a lot of people. It is. Awesome. Really appreciate that. shout out to everybody and then all of our social media fans we love you guys too and don't want to leave you out either well i do yeah we appreciate all of you and uh we appreciate the uh admins and the moderators we have on all the uh group pages and stuff trying to keep everything moving along for us so thank you big shout out to maggie for the writing and research maggie back maggie's back

Maggie goes down with an illness last week. Yeah, feeling better now. So feeling better now. Back to writing and researching. Missy Maggie. And then after you listen to this episode, make sure you jump over, check out True Crime All Time Unsolved. We have an episode out right now on Michael Tardio and Christopher Monson.

Yeah. Two murders, two victims, and a lot of layers to this case, Gibbs. I mean, international intrigue. Ponzi schemes, Playboy, Playmates. Jewelry. Heists. There's a lot going on with this case. It's a very good one.

And give us, merchandise is doing well. A lot of people, you know, buying stuff, starting to show it off on social media. Yeah, get that fleece or get those jogging pants or like Mike's wearing his dicky. Yeah, the fleece and the like workout pants. those are the two biggest sellers right now. People are really, really liking that. And then I want to talk about CrimeCon just a second. So Gibbs and I are definitely going to CrimeCon.

We should be getting very soon a special code to give to everybody. So if you haven't signed up and you're going to wait just a few more days, we'll have the code and we'll send it out on social media. And we'll definitely announce it on the next episode. All right, Gibbs, you ready to get into this episode? Yeah, let's do it. I'm excited, man. You have now entered a very rare group of people in this country. You're in the ranks of Charlie Manson, Ted Bundy.

You claim you didn't commit these murders, but you're right in there now as far as everybody else is... Cereal killers do on a small scale, what governments do on a large one. They are a product of the times, and these are bloodthirsty times. Even psychopaths have emotions if you dig deep enough, but then again, maybe they don't. I'll tell you what, I gave up on love and happiness a long time ago. People in this day and age are brainwashed and programmed like a computer at being nothing more than puppets. This nation, this country is founded in violence. Violent delights tend to have violent ends.

Madness is something rare in individuals, but in groups, people in ages, it is a rule. Killing is killing whether done for duty, profit, or fun. men murdered themselves into this democracy. That is Richard Ramirez, the night stalker. I listened to that a number of time gives. I don't know what in the hell he's talking about. I don't know if he knows what he's talking about. There was some, it was just a rambling mess of, like, cryptic statements.

Yeah, I kind of think he was trying to say we're a all bunch of Stefford people. I'm living in a Stefford town. I'm saying it? You said Stefford, I think. I think there's a pee in there somewhere. Yeah. Anyway, he's trying to say we're all robotic and he just followed this and that. But he's wrong.

I don't know what he was saying. I don't know. But he's a fascinating case. And like I said, I wanted to do this one from the very get-go. And he's a big timer. There's no doubt about it. it. The notoriety that came along with his murders, his capture, all of that, the guy said it in the clip, you know, Manson, Bundy, he's comparing Richard Ramirez to these infamous killers. So as we

always do, we've got to start out with Richard's early life. He was born on February 28, 1960, to Julianne and Mercedes. Now, he was born, Ricardo Lava Munoz Ramirez. That's a mouthful right there, Gibbs. I was surprised you got it out. I barely did. I was going to jump in and help you.

Yeah, I saw you chomping at the bit to jump in. His father was born in Camargo, Mexico, and his mother was born in Colorado. Rocky Mountain High. There you go. There you go. Yeah. Not back then.

No. And his parents, they met when they were both 14 years old. And Mercedes, her family would end up moving to Juarez, Mexico. And Julian would follow them so that the two could get married. You ever been to Juarez, Mexico? Not the Juarez. scariest time I've ever had in my life. You were there?

I was there. I was with my dad and my stepmom on vacation. Yeah. I was probably 10 or 12 years old. I was scared to death. I would have been. Not really. Not you.

But if you, I would have been. If you were me, you would have been scared. You know, not putting down Juarez, but man, it seemed like a scary place to me as a 10-year-old. Yeah. 12, 10-12-year-old. So they did marry in 1948. They were only 19 years old. And Richard is going to be one of five children.

He's the youngest. So he has siblings Ruben, Joseph, Robert, and then a sister named Ruth. Really like those are names, isn't they? They were into the R-R. Now, his dad Julian was not a legal citizen of the United States. So he lived in Juarez while Richard's mom Mercedes lived in El Paso. And all the children were born on the U.S. side of the border so that they could become legal citizens.

But Julian would make it to the United States and he became a legal citizen and ended up getting a job on the Santa Fe Railroad in 1952. Mercedes was working at a boot factory, and she was actually working at this factory while she was pregnant with Richard. There are stories Gibbs about the harsh chemicals used to make these boots, and the fact that she was inhaling all of these very harsh, toxic chemicals. Yeah, I'm guessing when they take the skin, you know, make the leather, that process. Those are really...

Like tanning the hide? Yeah, those are strong, strong chemicals. Well, and back then, right, didn't have the same labor laws and things that we do today. They probably weren't even wearing gloves. But she was pregnant. And the harsh chemicals caused her body to try to reject this unborn fetus, Richard. So Richard's life is not even started yet. And already he's having issues.

And he's going to have a number of issues that are going to impact his life. Now, it was said that he was a pretty good baby, you know, didn't cry a lot, ate well, slept well. But when he was two years old, he almost died because a dresser fell on his head as a two-year-old. Wow. I mean, you talk about dangerous. He didn't die. but he suffered a very bad concussion.

At a young age, head injury. Yes. Okay. We're going to talk about a couple of head injuries. He was unconscious for probably 15 minutes or more. By the way, this is a good PSA. This is when you want to tell yourself to go, get a few brackets, and secure that dresser. So when your kid tries to climb up it, it doesn't fall on top of them.

Or any hutch. Yeah. All right. Good PSA from. Gibbs. I don't know. Just put it out there. So knocked out, maybe unconscious, 15 minutes. This wound required about 30 stitches to sew up. That's a big wound. Yeah. I mean, it was a, it was a dresser, fell on his head. Man, that's a serious, serious injury. And when he was five years old, he was hit in the head with a swing and knocked out. So by the age of five, he's had two head

injuries. Yeah. Both knocking him unconscious. At the age of six, Richard would witness his father beating his oldest brother Rubin. And as Richard grew up, you know, a lot of the things that you read about him were that he was an outcast. He didn't have a lot of friends. And by the fifth grade, Richard would be diagnosed with temporal lobe epilepsy.

The doctors said, you know, it was a serious condition. but he could potentially grow out of it. You know, some of these early head traumas in all the literature, all the research you read on violent offenders, violent behavior to come. Something they all have in common. A lot of them.

A lot of them have it in common. They certainly do. One variable that they all have. Did you ever hit your head growing up? No, I don't remember hitting my head. I did. I'm sure you did. I'm sure you were dropped several times on your head.

as a baby by accident or on purpose one of them yeah depending on yeah who you ask and look how you turned out i know so you got that going on happy but you know being serious about these head injuries right yeah there've been a lot of studies you know we're not pulling that out of thin air or anywhere else or anywhere else when you do the the research there have been a lot of studies about childhood brain injuries leading to violent behavior later in life now by the age of 10 10, Richard Ramirez starts to hang out in cemeteries. He's smoking weed. Yeah.

And he's trying to hide out from his dad. His dad has big time anger issues. So his refuge was to hang out in the cemetery. Well, it was probably an easy spot to go. Didn't think anybody would be looking for him there. I don't know. I grew up with some kids that would go to the cemetery. But smoking weed at the age of 10, that seems.

That's the bigger thing. That's pretty young. That's pretty young. Yeah. Hitting the dubies that early, man. But he did play football, which is surprising to me, given the pictures, given what Richard Ramirez looks like, you know, he looks like he weighs about 110 pounds soaking wet. Yeah. He looks fast. But apparently he was a quarterback, and he didn't weigh 110 pounds soaking wet. At a certain point in his life, I think, you know, maybe 12, 13 years old. I read somewhere where he weighed almost 200 pounds.

Oh, so he was a big boy at one point. Yeah, he didn't weigh anywhere near that later in life. So he's saying he shared the same thing I did with huskies. I think he was wearing his husky jeans, sitting in the cemetery, smoking his weed. Yeah. That's what he was doing. Probably rocking out to some. We call that pulling a gibby.

Pulling a gibby. Chasing it down with Mad Dog 2020. Mad Dog 2020. That's right. Oh, the good old days. strawberry boons farm, Boones Hill, whatever you call it? Yeah, you probably drank that. I drank it all, man. I see you drinking that strawberry pink. I don't drink it now. I think you probably do. I went out, not to get off subject, I went out with my buddies the other day.

Yeah. And they were drinking some kind of pink wine beer. I guess is all the rage now. It's like a rosé beer or something. Really? Yeah, it was very strange. They said it was good. These are your buddies, huh? Yeah, these are my buddies. Okay. I hope they're little. listening. So we mentioned that he played football. We know that he had two concussions prior to the age of five, or by the age of five. We don't know how many concussions he may have had playing football. They weren't diagnosed back then the way they are now. No, your coach just dust it you off. Rub some dirt on it. So get back out there. Get back out there. So we know that it can cause, we found out over the years, right? We've got a lot of these football players aging.

after retirement, you know, having serious problems because of, you know, some traumatic brain injuries, they suffered from multiple concussions. Like that tied in that played for New England that said he had a concussion and all those concussions is why he ended up killing that guy. Oh, uh, Hernandez? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that he, that was part of his defense. Yeah.

Yep, that was part of it. So around the seventh grade, Ramirez apparently just stops caring about everything. His grades are horrible. He starts sniffing glue. Oh, that's always a take it to the next level. Oh, my gosh. And you know those inhalants, man. They are, they're bad news.

They can cause a host of problems. Especially back then. Diminished intelligence, memory loss, you know, all kinds of weird things. And keep in mind, he's about 12 years old, right? So he's smoking weed at 10, sniffing glue at 12. but it's around this time, around the age of 12, that Richard has a cousin by the name of Miguel that comes back from Vietnam.

And the two start to spend time together. And this cousin Miguel would show Richard Ramirez very disturbing photos that he had taken in Vietnam and brought back with him. And we're talking about photos Gibbs that show Vietnamese women that Miguel himself had raped, tortured, and murdered. But it's what happens to Richard Ramirez when he views these photos that is a huge foreshadowing of what's about to come.

Because Ramirez is going to later say that he would become sexually aroused by looking at these pictures. It's a little strange. Not a little. It's a lot. No, no, it's very strange. Yeah. Richard told me that he needed to associate gruesome violence with sex in order to be completely satisfied.

He also told me that he had to violently fantasize about his victims before he could go away sexually gratified. So this is a guy that, you know, interviewed later, but knew Richard Ramirez in his younger days talking about how, you know, Richard would tell him. he was fusing sex and violence together. And basically that's the only way that he could be satisfied. Get his rocks off? Yeah, that's the only way. And you just wonder how much of it came from at the age of 12 being shown these horrific pictures and, you know, getting aroused by them, putting the two together.

Well, and then feeding into it is the problem. Well, he's going to, yeah, he's going to feed into it. Once you cross that bridge, man, it's hard to come back. But would he have ever associated the two sex and violence together had his cousin not shown him these pictures that nobody should ever see, let alone a 12-year-old kid? Right. But clearly, you know, his cousin had issues. He did.

He's the one that committed the horrible acts seen in the pictures. So maybe he's a little gene in the family. Well, that could be too. But that's not the only thing Miguel brought back with him from Vietnam that he's going to share with Richard because he's also going to teach him what he called, you know, war tactics. So we're talking about things he had learned in Vietnam about killing folks, killing people using stealth, staying well hidden, ambushing, you know, whatever you, you know, all those different things that you might learn. Yeah. In war, he's teaching young Richard Ramirez, and Richard's, he's going to use these skills. We know he is.

He's a bad guy. He's a good student, is what you're saying. I have a feeling he was a good student, yes. Now, when Richard was only 13 years old, Miguel shot and killed his wife in front of Richard. So the first 13 years, he has, you know, these head injuries. then he gets in with his cousin Miguel and he's seeing some serious shit. At this point, I'm guessing he's pretty desensitized to violence. He might be at the age of 13.

I mean, you're seeing all that. Eventually, it's just going to be like, that's just what happens, man. But up to this point, Gibbs, I think, you know, he had seen pictures. He just saw a real person murdered in front of him. And that would change things. That's got to be a different level. Yeah. Seeing the pictures is bad enough. Seeing it happen for real in front of your eyes, that's something else. No, it's, it's, it's definitely strange to see somebody die. Have you seen somebody die?

I've seen two people die. Have you really? Yeah. Like right before your eyes? Yeah. Holy snikies. So it would be. I have never, I've never seen that. Yeah, a stranger and somebody I knew, right? So I've seen, okay, let me take that back. I've seen people pass away, loved ones. I've never seen. I've never seen. I've never seen. someone killed. All right. So I've never, I've seen, of course, the loved one. And then I saw somebody, I saw somebody hit by a car, flew up in the air and died. Okay. That would be traumatic. That was traumatic. But that wasn't a murder, I'm assuming. That was an accident. Yeah. Still traumatic. Still traumatic. Yeah. And then whatever I do on weekends. Yeah. We don't talk about that. Exactly. But Richard Ramirez would start committing burglaries, petty thefts. you know, again, at the age of 13, very young, he was skipping school.

And basically, what he would do is walk around a neighborhood, scoping out homes that he liked. And he would break in, go through people's stuff and take whatever he wanted. I mean, that's pretty much what he did. And at one point, he went to Los Angeles to visit his brother, Rubin. That was his oldest brother, who, just also happened to be a petty criminal and would teach Richard his craft. Oh, the art of cat burglary? Yeah. You know, how to break into homes, how to commit burglaries and get away with it. So it's bad enough that Richard has these thoughts going through his head. He has like

mentors, mentors in murder, mentors in robbery, robbery and burglary. He's being taught. He's taught how to do these things. And the other thing that his oldest brother Rubin got him into in a big way was porn. Really? 1970s porn. 1970s porn. Yeah. Debbie does Dallas. Yeah, but that came out in the 70s, didn't it? I think probably did that in deep throat. Not that I know. Not that you were first in line at the at the old drive-in theater. I was only, I don't know. I was only old enough to be there. I was only, no. I'm just messing with you.

We joke about it, but what does that do to a young kid that has already associated sex and violence? And now he is heavily into watching pornography. Right. That can't be a good thing. That's not a good thing at all. Because now you're seeing a lot of sex, you know, up on, on the screen. But eventually, Richard would leave L.A., go back to El Paso, and enroll. in high school. So how funny is that? I mean, he's done all these things before he's even in high school.

Yeah, he's been a busy boy. But he's not going to make it through. He's going to drop out of high school. You know, he would earn the nickname Rirki the Klepto. They also called him fingers because of all the thefts. I mean, he was stealing from anybody that he could. And at a very early age, you know, 15, 16 years old, He also started to have sex with sex workers. Okay. It's a little early. Everything he does is early. Not saying you should ever do it.

No. But he's doing stuff at an earlier age than you would ever imagine people doing it at. Right. To me, anyway. And I meant, no, you should never do it. I had that for you. Yeah. Now, one thing that the Ramirez family like to do is they like to go hunting.

as a family. So Richard enjoyed that, but he also liked to go hunting alone. He would talk about this later on how he enjoyed sneaking up on his prey. He enjoyed the stalking. The rush. The rush of stalking something. There's that rush doing that, you know, the anticipation of the surprise. Yeah, I don't know. You were today speaking a lot of about things that seemed to be coming from a place of knowledge that is scaring the shit out of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he did. He would talk about this, how much he enjoyed it.

And he would try to sneak up on the animals where he could stab them. You know, he's not shooting a deer from, you know, 50 yards away. Right. He's going caveman style. He is trying to literally sneak up on an animal, get close enough. to where he could stab it. And he would say that once he was able to do it, you know,

he would disembow these animals. And we've talked about this before. Sometimes these people just want to see what the insides of an animal look like. Yeah. See how everything works. It's very, it's very strange to me. It's almost clinical in a way.

Right. Richard was also obsessed with horror movies. And then at some point Gibbs, and this is something I couldn't really wrap. my head around. He started to attend some meetings for the Jehovah's Witnesses. Oh, you got to knock on the door one Sunday? I don't know. But he started going to these meetings. Yeah. And why that is so strange to me is because we know, I mean, Richard Ramirez is infamous for the fact that, you know, he talked about Satan, Satanism, devil worshiping. You know, you've seen, everybody's seen the iconic picture of him holding up his hand and

he's got like a like a pentagram drawn on his hand in court. But here he is at one point in his life attending a meeting for the Jehovah's Witnesses. There are different sects of Satanism. I can tell you a little bit about Satanism. It is undefiled wisdom instead of hypocritical self-deceit. It is power without charity. Satanists admits to being evil. We are all evil in some form or another.

we not? Evil has always existed. The perfect world most people seek, she'll never come to pass. And it's going to get worse. The great epochs of our life is when we gain the courage to re-baptize our evil qualities as being our best qualities. So that's Richard Ramirez talking a little bit about Satanism. I understood about 8% of what he was saying there, I think. Is that about all you got out of that? Yeah, he lost me pretty quickly into that rant. Me too. And he used the word epochs.

Epox. Define it. I think it's like period of time. How does it relate? Like, to who? Exactly. Like your mama? Oh.

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Right. So getting back to Ramirez, he's 15 years old, he gets a job at the Holiday Inn. The Hotel Motel. Holiday Inn. That one. That one. Yeah. But he gets fired from this job because he tried to enter the room of a woman and sexually

assault her. How old? Fifteen years old. Fifteen. But he was stopped because this woman's husband walked in while his wife was being attacked. He beats the shit out of Richard Ramirez. Good for him. No, good.

It is good. He protected his wife. He kicked the shit out of Ramirez. But the couple was from out of town and they wanted to get the heck out of Dodge. So no charges were ever filed in this. case. They didn't want to stick around, I guess, to do what it would have taken to press charges. At around the same time, his cousin Miguel gets released from the Texas State Mental Hospital. This Miguel, he's a real winner. And they start hanging out together again. But when Richard is 18

years old, he moves to Los Angeles. He's already a heavy drug user. The man's got horrible teeth. And you can see that in a lot of pictures and interviews because apparently all the guy did was eat candy and drink soda. Probably never brushed his teeth either. No, and it was said that he had horrible breath as well. Yeah, probably had rotted teeth, man. But he's 18 years old. Yeah, rot at teeth, rot at teeth. It is, but you know, at 18 years old, you got to, that's some pretty serious neglect to have him rotted already. So if you're a kid listening, make sure you brush your teeth, at least twice a day. And if you're a kid listening, don't listen. You should not be listening to the story of Richard Ramirez. Let your mom and dad know that they let the podcast running. Yeah. And he would make his way

to San Francisco. He's heavy into Satan worship by this time. And in San Francisco, he actually meets Anton LeVay. And Anton LeVay is kind of a famous guy, infamous, however you want to term it, but he was an author. who wrote a lot about satanic type things. So I want to talk a little bit about Ramirez's arrest record. You know, he got arrested a lot for possession, breaking and entering, auto theft. We already talked about his lack of brushing skills, but apparently Gibbs, the guy smelled. He just didn't take personal hygiene very seriously at all. Didn't like to wash his stuff.

that needed to be cleaned. No. He didn't like to brush his teeth. He didn't wash up. He didn't use deodorant. So he's in California. He's committing all these thefts. By the age of 23,

his sister tries to convince him to move back to El Paso. He turns her down. And what he tells her is that he's a thief. And he's going to continue to be a thief. And he has no fear because at this point, he's protected by Satan. And for some reason, the image of Dana Carvey doing a church lady just like popped into my head. Yeah.

Every time I say Satan. That's what I think of. The church lady dance. Could it be Satan? But it would be the very next year when Richard Ramirez would commit his first murder. He's 24 years old, June 28, 1984. He enters an open window and stabs 79 year old, genuinely. Vincal to death while she was asleep. And after he murders this woman, he ends up having sex

with her corpse. Of course he does. That's what they do. And one thing that we're definitely going to see about Richard Ramirez is he has no type because when it comes to ages, age range, he is all over the map. I mean, his first victim is 79 years old. Now, the police were. able to lift fingerprints from the window screen, but they had nothing to compare it to. The prints don't come back as a hit for Richard Ramirez. They don't have anything to go on, you know, other than these prints that they can't match up. And this, you know, this case is a very tough one to solve.

Around this same time, a six-year-old girl is abducted from Montobello. She was taken from a bus stop near her school. and stuffed into a laundry bag during the abduction. Now, this would end up being Richard Ramirez. He sexually abused this girl, but he did not murder her. He drops her off. And then just two weeks later, he takes a nine-year-old out of her bedroom in Monterey Park, rapes her and then dumps her in a park near her home.

Sick dude. It's a very sick. He's sick. Six-year-old, nine-year-old, really? So he sexually assaults these two very young girls after he'd murdered a 79-year-old woman, but he's going to go back to murdering. You know, we're going to be talking about a lot of victims of Richard Ramirez. He's going to kill a large number of women,

but he's going to assault, rape, you know, many, many more than he actually kills. This guy would leave a lot of victims. in his wake. So on March 17th, 1985, Richard Ramirez sees a very pretty girl by the name of Maria Hernandez. She's driving home to her new condo in Rose Meade, California. And she lived with another woman named Dale Okazaki. And what happens is Maria gets out of her car. And as she's pushing the button to shut the garage door, a man confronts her. with a 22 revolver. So basically, Richard Ramirez saw her, followed her, and as the garage door was going down,

you know, snuck in underneath it before she had time to enter the condo. She starts screaming. She's pleading with him not to shoot her the whole time he has the gun, you know, trained on her. And as the garage lights go out, she raises her hand. to protect her face. Ramirez fires the gun and she falls to the ground. But miraculously, Gibbs, she had her keys in her hand as the shot was fired and these keys deflected the bullet. Wow. That was really lucky. And kept her from being killed. Good thing. It was only a 22. Yes. I'm sure that played a big part in it. So she,

pretended to be dead though and Ramirez takes the keys out of her hand and enters the condo. We mentioned that Maria had a roommate and this roommate obviously here's the gunshot. She panics, tries to hide, but she doesn't stay hidden long enough. You know, only for a few minutes and then, what you don't know what you call it, Gibbs, curiosity, fear, whatever, causes her to leave her hiding place to see what had happened. Well, Richard Ramirez is still in the condo and he ends up shooting this woman in the forehead. Now, as he leaves the condo, remember, Maria is playing dead. And Ramirez leaves gets back into a stolen car, which he had followed Maria Holman.

And at that point, Maria does get up. She goes into the condo to try to save her roommate, but it's too late. You know, she's dead. The police come confirmed she's dead. But Maria is able to give police a good description of Richard Ramirez. So one thing to talk about is timing because between the first and second murders, Ramirez waited almost a year. But his next murder is going to happen very quickly. You know, within the next day, he drives to Monterey Park.

He sees another pretty woman by the name of Veronica You, and he starts following her. Now, Veronica notices at one point that she's being followed, which is amazing, very good skills on her part, because you should be aware, right? Absolutely. But it's very tough sometimes. But she does. She realized this guy is following her. she pulls over so she can let him by and also so that she can see who it is. And he does pass her, but she does something that she probably shouldn't have done.

She starts to follow Richard Ramirez. She's trying to turn around on him, but you don't do that. Not with somebody like this guy. You just get safe. You don't worry about it. And what Ramirez does is he just stops the car in the middle of the road. gets out, walks back to her car, and Veronica asks him when he gets to her car why he was following her. And she tells him, you know, I'm going to call the police.

And what Richard does is actually try to pull her straight through the car window, Gibbs. Wow. By her shoulders, just grabs her and tries to yank her out. Yank her out. But it doesn't work. But when that doesn't work, when he's not able to pull her out, he shoots her. the car while she's in the car right there and then but she doesn't die immediately she's able to get out of the car she's trying to find someone that can help her and what ramirez would tell police later is that

you know he called her a bitch laughed at her as he got into his car and took off now what he didn't know was that as he was doing this he was being he was seen there was two witnesses that saw him do this, they were sitting in a parked car just down the street, saw the whole thing. So once he's gone, they get out and try to help Veronica. The police are called. But by the time that the ambulance gets there, it's basically too late. You know, she dies in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. But again, now we have another eyewitness to, in fact, this time, that are giving descriptions

to the police. And my thought is Gibbs not that hard to give a description of Richard Ramirez. I wouldn't think so. He has a very distinctive look. Kind of like you. Exactly, like me.

Exactly what you look like. Unless I have to sit across from a police sketch artist and I would... Then there'd be no... I'd just draw some stick figure. You're not the one drawing. The expert is drawing. Oh.

You're just talking. He'll just draw a stick figure. Why would you think you would be drawing in that scenario? Draw that circle a little bit bigger, Gibby. That's probably what you want. How do you think that police work? They just hand you a box of crayons and paper and say, hey, go at it. Draw a very accurate depiction of the person that you saw.

But even though they probably had pretty decent descriptions of Richard Ramirez, his murders are not linked at this point because they happened in different areas, were talking about, you know, 84, 85 time frame. There wasn't great communication among the various police agencies in LA. And that was something that criminals used back then to help them get away with things. Well, I think the big cities had that issue, right? You know, just one borough, like in New York, one borough wouldn't talk to the other one, wasn't their turf.

They didn't worry about it. Yeah, I would think you had it. Chicago and like you said, New York, L.A. No, any, any big city, you know, would have that problem. So the police officer that is assigned to this case would actually reach out to a guy by the name of Frank Salerno. And I think we mentioned Frank in a previous episode. I think we did too. Because he was the head of the task force formed to catch the hillside stranglers. So when we did the Bianchi and Buono episode. I think we talked about Frank. But we mentioned it, right? They have some information on the killer. And he was described as tall, thin, black hair and very scary eyes.

He was also dressed in black. Now, knowing what Richard Ramirez looks like, that's a very accurate description. Also could be the same for a lot of other people. Right. But Richard Ramirez has some very scary eyes. He's just got a look about him that says, I'm moving to the other side of the street. You do whatever it is you got to do. I don't want to be involved in it at all. He just looks evil, man. He does. Eble. And he is evil and he will say it.

We are all evil in some form or another. Are we not? Yes, I am evil. Not 100%, but I am evil. So that was Richard in an interview saying, you know, yeah, I'm evil, but I'm not 100% evil, Gibbs. What's that mean? I don't know what that means. He's only 98% evil.

Either you're evil or you're not. If anybody's 100% evil, that's Richard Ramirez. Yeah. This dude, when you look up evil in the dictionary, it just has a picture of Richard Ramirez. Now, Ramirez would kill again on March 26, 1985. And this would be in the wealthy community. of Whittier, California. For some reason, I want to say

that's where Richard Nixon grew up, was born. And Whittier? Yeah, I think so. I don't know. I didn't follow Tricky Dick. Yeah. And he would show up around 2 a.m.

to the house of Vincent and Maxine Zezara. And through the window, he could see Vincent sleeping on the couch. Maxine was sleeping in the bedroom. as he's casing this house, all the windows are locked. But he's able to make his way into the house through the laundry room. And he walks right into the living room and shoots Vincent Zazara in the head. Boom.

That fast. That quickly. Yeah. Don't he give him a chance to respond. He's sleeping. Boom. Now, would come out that Vincent did try to get up.

But it was a just, I don't know, instinctual attempt. He was pretty much dead. Sure. And he fell to the floor immediately and died. Richard walks to the bedroom. He ties Maxine up with a necktie. And then he sets out about the house looking for things to steal. And Maxine makes a decision.

She is not going to wait around to be hurt, to be killed. She is going to try to take matters into her own hands. So what she does is she's able to roll off the bed and she grabs a shotgun that they kept underneath the bed. And when Richard comes back in the room, she's got this shotgun pointed at him. And so he reaches for his own gun and Maxine pulls the trigger on this shotgun. Good for her. Good for her.

But the worst sound that you can imagine happens. Oh, no. It's a click. Yep. because apparently Vincent had taken the shells out of the shotgun because their grandkids had been visiting. That's the worst, man, forgetting to put the shells back in. It's the whole purpose they have that there.

Well, pretty hard to defend yourself with the weapon that's not loaded. But Maxine didn't know that. And she thought, hell, I'm going to kill this guy. He has killed my husband. Who knows what he's going to do to me? And I can't imagine hearing that. click. Richard Ramirez shoots Maxine three times. He beat her severely, kicked her while she was on the ground, and then he goes into the kitchen and gets a very large knife, comes back into the bedroom,

and in his own words, Gibbs, he was going to try to cut her heart out, but he could not get through the rib cage. But what he does end up doing is, her. horrific in its own right. He cuts out her eyes. Terrible, man. And he puts them in a jewelry box. So if that's not a hundred percent evil, I don't know what the hell is. That's not 96. That's not 97. That is a hundred percent pure evil. Yeah, to take the time to force the eyes to pop out and cut them or whatever his method was. I can't imagine. I can't imagine. But he would later say that he was going to rape Maxine Zezara, but he was unable to. Couldn't perform, huh? No. I was trying to figure out a way to say that. But I think that just pissed him off even more because he ends up

stabbing her many times, you know, in the stomach, in the throat, in her pubic area. Right. So after he's done that, he takes all the stuff that he had gathered that he wanted to steal. and he leaves out the front door. So eventually the police are going to stumble across the scene. They would find two footprints. And the footprints are going to match another case that they have on file. And it's the case of a woman in Los Angeles who had been the victim of an attempted kidnapping. So they had taken footprints in that case as well.

and the police officer who's investigating these two cases, he believes that the murder of Vincent and Maxine is connected not only to this abduction in L.A., but also to the 1984 murders. Now, we know it is. We know it's Richard Ramirez, but this police officer is putting it together back in the day, but nobody believes him, right? They're saying, hey, that's a hunt.

You don't know that. But he was right. But he couldn't get anybody to believe him at the time. The very next month, so we're still in 1985, it's April, Ramirez would find the home of William and Lillian Doy. Lillian was confined to a wheelchair. Okay. She had suffered from a very severe stroke a few years earlier. Richard Ramirez enters the house in the back through.

window. He cuts the screen. He goes into where William is. William tries to grab a gun. But Richard Ramirez has the element of surprise. And he already has his gun out. He shoots William in the face just above his upper lip below his nose. And then he proceeds to beat him until he passes out. Now, Lillian wakes up from the gunshot. he proceeds to tie her hands and then again he sets out about the house looking for things to steal. At some point, William wakes up. He's still alive. He had been beaten unconscious. He wakes up and Richard sees him, beats him again severely, knocks him out.

And what Richard Ramirez would say was that he was so hyped up that he goes back into Lillian's room. and he rapes her. I mean, this is a woman Gibbs confined to a wheelchair. Right. Just another low for him. You just can't hardly fathom the level of depravity that Richard Ramirez displays. It's off the charts. Yeah, he just doesn't care at all, man.

He has no morals. Zero. No, he doesn't care about anything. Six-year-old, nine-year-old wheelchair-bound. 80-year-old women. It doesn't matter. He doesn't care. After Richard Ramirez had left the house, William Doye woke up.

You got to imagine this guy. He's been shot in the face. He was beaten several times. He finds the strength to get to the phone and call police. But he would die at 5 a.m. the next morning. That's how bad his injuries were. But he was able to find the strength to get to the phone and call the police. and call the police.

And when the police do their investigation, they again find footprints. And they're able to narrow it down to one specific shoe brand, Avia. And they're able to make a plaster cast out of these footprints. So we jump forward to May 29th. But we're not jumping very far. I mean,

he is on a path of averaging, you know, an attack or a murder a month. It's May 29th. Ramirez is in the town of Monrovia, California, and he chooses his next house. And it happens to be the house of an 81-year-old named Mabel Bell. She lived with her sister, Nettie Lang. And Nettie Lang was an invalid.

She had some severe medical conditions. but this was a nice area. The sisters, they didn't worry about crime. A place you could sleep with your windows open, maybe? They didn't even lock their doors. They didn't lock your doors. The good old days. The good old days.

Well, it really wasn't the good old days. You should have locked your doors anyway. But it was the good old days of where people felt like they could. And for the most part, in a lot of places, you really could get away with that. But they weren't counting on Richard Ramirez targeting them for no reason. So he enters through the front door and using a hammer, he would pound the head of Nettie Lang over and over. Yeah, just another sickening level he goes to. Man, it's so violent.

And then he did the same thing with Mabel. So these are two older women, their sisters, they're living together. I mean, it's hard to even explain what this scene would have been like. The amount of blood. It was said there was brains at this scene. Brain matter everywhere? Brain matter. That's how vicious these attacks were.

Hitting so hard, he breaks through the skull and he got brain matter flying in the air. Yes. Wow. Hard to imagine. But then he takes an electrical cord from a clock that was sitting on like a bedside table. He exposes the wires, you know, rips the two parts in half. Sure. It gets the bare wire. Yep. Gets down to the bare wire. And he uses

this to shock Mabel, you know, sending electric current through her body. He would end up drawing a pentagram and red lipstick on her thigh. He drew one on the wall. And then he went back to the bedroom of Nettie Lang. And he raped her. And then Gibbs, after doing these whole, horrible things to these two women. Richard Ramirez goes to the kitchen. Right. Grabbs a soda. He grabs a banana and he leaves.

Okay. Interesting. It is, I mean, from the, from the standpoint of his mindset. Right. Those are horrible acts. Yeah. You're not shaking. Yeah.

You're not in the least bit remorseful. Let me get a soda, something to snack on. And yeah. Start walking home. No, I'll take off. Yeah, yeah. This is more like second nature to him. Oh.

This is what I do. It's nothing. Yeah. It's like you and I going down to the grocery, getting a pint of ice cream coming home. You don't give it a second thought. It doesn't mean much. What makes you think I get a pint of ice cream? Why couldn't you say it's like you going in and getting some spinach and kale and coming back and making a little salad?

That wouldn't be like you. It is just, it's just, there's no. emotion. There's no, there's nothing. Yeah, lifeless. That's, that's, I picture like, you know, blank eyes. Yeah. There's just, you're right. Yeah, just lifeless. Nothing in his soul, but the evil. But he's not done. He's heading to another house. So he drives to Burbank, picks out another house. It's locked up, but he ends up making entry through the dog door. He's skinny enough. He probably can. Well, I think he's, he got in at least far enough that he was on he was able to unlock the door he probably learned that

from his cousin i think those dog doors are can be a little dangerous i think so too i don't have one i don't either once inside ramirez finds a sleeping woman he shines a flashlight in in her eyes and he would say to her wake up don't scream or i will kill you and it's at this point that the woman tells him that she has an 11-year-old son who's sleeping in the next room. So Richard Ramirez gets her up, makes her go into the son's room, he jumps onto the bed, onto her son, puts a gun to this boy's head. And at this point, this woman would do anything to save her son. To the point gives that she throws herself in front of the gun in between her son and

Richard Ramirez. That's what a mother will do. No thought for herself, nothing. Exactly right. She was willing to give her life for her son at that point. I'd throw you in front of me for needed to. And vice versa. But she's begging him not to hurt her son. You know, she's telling Richard that he can take whatever he wants. She'll give him all the jewelry she has. So eventually he puts handcuffs on her son and puts him in a closet. Now alone with this woman, he forces her to perform sexual acts on him. He sodomizes her several times. And this woman is going to live. And it's the reason why we're not saying her name. So she's able to tell the police her story. And she tells them that you know, this man had what she described as demonic eyes. So again, with the eyes.

Right. And she's not lying. I mean, when you, when you see pictures or video, he's freaky. He has some freaky, freaky eyes. I'm always amazed by the amount of women that like him. Yeah, we haven't talked about that yet. But there were. There were a lot of women fascinated by him, thought he was good looking, which I'm not seeing at all. I'm not saying I'm Brad Pitt, but. Well, I'm definitely saying you're not Brad Pitt. Okay. I appreciate that. Yeah, just get that out there and make sure everybody's clear on that. But again, is it, you know, is it just the bad boy image, the I don't give a shit attitude? I don't know what it is. Yeah, I don't either. Was it the no teeth? Help us out. Tell us what it is, ladies. But after he victimizes this woman, again, he goes to the

kitchen, grabs a soda. I mean, we talked about this. This guy did nothing but now he got a banana, which I thought was strange, because there's a lot out there about him eating nothing but candy and drinking. Right. Sugary sodas. Maybe he's felt his potassium was low and wanted to kick it up. Maybe.

I don't know. But Richard would tell this woman that she was lucky, that he let her live because he had killed a lot of people. You know, she's relaying this information. to police. And then in a strange move, strange, I guess for Richard Ramirez, he gives her a nightgown, tells her to cover up, and then he cuffs her and her son to the bet. He leaves the keys to the handcuffs on the mantle so that when somebody else comes home,

she has another daughter that's not there. And it's going to be, you know, when her daughter comes home. Thank goodness the daughter wasn't there. Yeah, thank goodness she wasn't there. but right before he leaves, he tells her that if she tells anyone about this incident, he will come back and kill her. Now, one of the things that she did tell police, right, because she gave a description, but she also said that outside of the eyes, she didn't really get a great look at him.

She was purposefully trying not to look at him. So because of this, the description is not great. The composite is not the same as some of the others. And this attack is not linked with any of the others at first. Now, Gibbs, I got to go back and talk about the two sisters because they are found a few days after the attack by a handyman, both still alive, but barely. And it's amazing that they were alive two days after this vicious attack. After what he did, I am so surprised. They had multiple skull fractures.

Like we said, their brain tissue was exposed. They were both in comas. The police department in that town, they were so shocked by the attack that they had to call in the sheriff's department. You know, I'm assuming this was not a big police department in the small town. Right. So they called in the sheriff's department. Needed better resources? They did.

They wanted to get the best. resources that they could to solve this case. And it's a miracle, Gibbs. And I don't know how it happened. But Nettie Lang, one of the sisters, and she was the one that was an invalid, she survived this attack. But her sister Mabel did not. She died. I can't believe either one of them lived. That's amazing right there. It really is. Miracle. So as police are investigating this, crime scene they actually find quite a bit of evidence they find two bananas half eaten there's urine in the toilet and they find two empty soda cans now all of that in and of itself doesn't really mean anything right that could have come from anybody but the one thing that they

do find that would connect is an avia footprint in blood especially with all these avia footprints they're starting to put it together, right? And starting to think that they have a serial killer on the loose. And like we said, this is a person that is not discriminating or not doesn't have what you would really call a type when it comes to victims. So no one's going to be safe, right? This is not the situation where, you know, a serial killer is only murdering people or women with long brown hair or long blonde hair.

Yeah, I mean, I get it. I mean, if it wasn't for the footprints, there would be no way to tie all these together. No, correct. But once they do, I think it's scary to think about the fact that this guy can't really worn any, any certain. You know, everybody in all, and he's kind of geographically going from area to area. Right. So it doesn't matter what side.

of town you live on. Doesn't matter if you're a little kid or an older lady. It doesn't matter your age. It doesn't matter, you know, rich, poor. It doesn't seem to matter. Life support. He might come get you. Lock your doors, lock your windows. If you have the ability to provide additional security devices, then by all means do so. Who wants to be next? I know. No one else does. So just a quick snippet from the police back in the day, you know, warning people. You lock your doors, first of all, and you hear him say it. If you've got a way to defend yourself, this is the time to pull it out. Be ready.

Don't mess around with this, dude. But that doesn't stop Richard Ramirez. Because the very next month, and like I said, it is month after month with this guy in 1985 because we're in June. He finds a house in the town of Pico Rivera. And it's about midnight. he is attempting to get into this house through a window. He finds out that they're all locked up with the exception of one.

And this is a window in the living room. But he has a hard time getting it open because essentially painted shut. And maybe that's the reason why they didn't lock it. They couldn't get it open anyway. The pain had dried and it was hard to open. Right. But eventually he is able to open the window. And as he does, he can hear a.

woman call out to her husband asking him if he was opening a window. And this house happened to belong to an L.A. sheriff deputy by the name of John Rodriguez. And he hears his wife. He goes to see what, you know, what she's talking about. But this spooks Richard Ramirez off. But they do find another of via shoe print, you know, underneath the window that, that, that he had tried to that he opened. So that was a bust for Richard, but he targets, um, some other houses that night. He's not able to get into these houses. He's frustrated. He actually tries to kidnap

another girl, but his, a kidnap gets thwarted. Someone calls the police and he runs off. And then he stopped at a red light by LAPD. And it's a motorcycle cop. Like, Chips? Like chips. Except they were a highway patrol. Eric Estrada. Eric Estrada. I once drank a beer with Eric Estrada.

Did you? In the Bahamas. He married like a girl up next to my town. It's a small world. She was a playboy bunny. Well, of course she was. Centerfold, whatever, for a couple years. But Richard Ramirez had no license, no registration, and he's driving a stolen car.

So you got to think gives at this point. his his luck has run out. Yeah. How in the world would he get out of this? Right. Not to mention the fact that it had gone out on the radio that a man had tried to kidnap a girl. They knew what car he was driving. That went out on the radio.

But this motorcycle police officer doesn't put it all together. Somehow he walks up to the car and you have to imagine how. how different things would have gone because Richard Ramirez is going to murder a lot more people after this incident. What if this police officer had put it together? Now, Richard would say later that the cop was joking around with him saying,

hey, you're not really that killer, are you? Now, if that's accurate, who knows, that story came out. And Richard said,

no, you know, that's not me. But you guys aren't going to, going to catch that guy anyway. And while the police officer is back at his motorcycle, Richard Ramirez draws a pentagram on the car. He opens up the door and he bolts. He makes a run for it. And he actually gets away. I mean, this police officer is not able to catch him, find him. So eventually, the police officer makes his way back to the car. He figures out that it's stolen. He finds a wallet with

$100 in it. He finds an appointment card for the dentist, which I find very odd. Really strange. Given Richard Ramirez's lack of personal hygiene and apparent care for his teeth throughout his life. So they had him Gibbs. They had Richard Ramirez. They had the night stalker. And he got away. I think I've heard a story like this before when the cops got him, but they let him get away. You've heard it or you've lived it. I won't tell everything, man. You won't tell everybody how you got away? I'm sitting here this time.

But the problem is, you know, like we said, we know Richard Ramirez is going to kill more people and hurt more people, right? It's not just the number of people that he murdered. I mean, he sexually assaulted a large number of women that weren't killed. You know, in all, we're talking close to 30 victims. of Richard Ramirez, probably at least 13 murders. So we have a lot more to cover. But police are on to him.

They don't know who he is yet, but they're getting closer. And as we're going to find out in part two, you know, it's, it's just a matter of time, right? The time is ticking down for Richard Ramirez and his freedom. But that's part two. And that's next week. So like you said, they're clued in now. know what they're looking for, and the public's more aware, and it's just a matter of time. Well, it is, and the public is going to play a big part, which we'll see in part two.

Yeah. They play a huge part in this case, in the apprehension of Richard Ramirez. Right, which is good. But first, we have to go through getting to that part, which is, you just said it's going to be next week. You're going to make everybody wait. Yeah, got to make them wait a week. Man, they're not going to like that.

And we got a lot, unfortunately, we have a lot more murders to go through before we get to that part where the public, you know, gets involved in his apprehension. So that's it for part one of Richard Ramirez. Gibbs, we've got some voicemails. You want to do those? Absolutely. Hey, guys. How are you? My name is Chris.

And I'm calling in from the lovely city of Boston, Massachusetts. I just wanted to call in and tell you guys I really appreciate what you do. Take a minute out of my day and let you know. I really look forward to Monday every week on my ride into Boston in the traffic that I'm so lucky to sit in. You guys bring a little light to my day by talking about all the stuff that you do. It's kind of dark, obviously, but, you know, it's interesting. You guys cover it with you're very thorough,

and you cover it with a good sense of levity. And I just really appreciate what you do. You got a good chemistry together. I know myself and a lot of the other listeners just really enjoy your podcast. So keep up the hard work. And like you guys say, keep your time ticking. All right, have a going, guys. Bye.

All right. Awesome voicemail. We really appreciate those kind of great comments. I felt like I was on Goodwill hunting. No, I was expecting a much stronger accent. Because I was going to say, how you like them apples? How you like those apples? Those are horrible Boston accents, by the way.

Very bad. From both of us. And my mom grew up in South Boston. She's a Southie? She's a Southie. How about that? I don't know. Drink some tonic.

Hi, Mike and Gibby. This is Don. I love your show. I really, really want to be Team Gibby, but he laughed like my ex-boyfriend. And I cannot handle it. so I just I'm just not I can't make a decision right now on that but I love it I wait for it I listen to both your podcast and I'm going to keep my own time ticking you guys keep your own time ticket and we'll talk about the laugh later all right bye gibby how many times have I told you not to laugh like Don's

boyfriend I know it I know it Don you're breaking my heart we keep talking about it but you keep doing it don't work on it come come to the light cross over to team givie hey y'all i'm virginia and um i was just listening to the lockhart episode i think it's episode 60

you talk about how you just started watching justified and how awesome that show is and i just did like a little happy dance in the car because i love justified and i just felt like i don't know i felt like somebody needed to know that the justified is awesome so i'm so glad

to turn to it um i also wanted to say that i love love love your podcast. It gets me through my hour-long commute, and you've got to do a great job. So stay safe, keep your own time picking. Bye. I knew she was in the Justified when she said, hi, y'all. Right there I knew. Well, I finished Justified, loved it. Now I'm getting my wife to watch it, so I'm watching it again. Like, repeat. But I'm on two sons of anarchy. I know you are because you're thinking, I'm having a kind of thinking you might be getting yourself a little bike the ride. did go look at Harley's the other day. That's what I'm saying. You're really getting into it, man.

First you watch Justified, you'd go out and buy a cowboy hat. That's the kind of guy. I am going to buy a cowboy hat to wear down to Nashville. Are you already bought the boots? I have had the boots. Yeah. You made me go get the chaps. Hey, nobody made you get those, dude. You've had those for years. I just dusted them off. Oh, all right. Love the voicemails. We appreciate it. And we appreciate everyone. everyone that takes time to listen. Yeah. Download.

Even that guy next to you that's not listening right now. I appreciate him because you're going to say, look at my smartphone, look what I'm listening to. Turn ears on to it too, buddy. I like that. That helps us out. All right. So that's it for another episode of True Crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby.

Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.