True Crime All The Time - Richard Ramirez "The Night Stalker" finale

Episode Date: February 12, 2018

Richard Ramirez, dubbed "The Night Stalker" continued to terrorize California striking hearts into the fear of many. The satanic serial killer would ultimately be convicted of 13 murders and many more rapes and burglaries. To some he is a bigger than life mythical creature. But to most, he is one of the most evil serial killers in American history.Join Mike and Gibby as they wrap up the saga on the crimes and capture of Richard Ramirez. His capture would come about in a very unique and unlikely way. The revolutions that would come out later about the full extent of his evil would be astonishing. You can help support the show by going to patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeCheck out our website at truecrimeallthetime.com for episodes, contact information, and links to our merchandising.Please help support our sponsors as they help make these episodes possibleDaily Harvest - our listeners get 3 free items off their first box by going to daily-harvest.com and entering our promo code TCATTZola - our listeners will receive a $50 credit towards their bridal registry by going to zola.com/tcattCredits:Writing/Research - Maggie DobschuetzSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 65 to the true crime all the time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Give me what's going on? Man, I'm just happy to be here. I like it when you're happy to be here. You just never know how I'm going to change that up to you. Uh-uh. It doesn't vary by a whole lot. Got to be honest with you. Consistency. The consistency is the key from the give man. That's right. So what's happening? Uh, you know, not a whole lot. We had a listener, Pedro, send us a tub of Vegeamite through Amazon. Did he, mate? From Australia. Oh, that's very good, mate. Okay. The first part was okay. And then it morphed real quickly into Paul McCartney from the Beatles.

That doesn't take long, did it? No, and that's even worse. That's like straight out of... You're going to make yourself a veggie mite sandwich? Yeah, I don't know what that was. Was that? That was just you, wasn't it? Oh. So I did. So I did. I took the lid off and it had like one of those protective seals. Yeah, that's good. So I broke that. Okay. Can't return it now.

I smelled it. Yeah. How did it smell? A little funky. Yeah. A little funky. Did you squirt some in your mouth? What comes in a tube like toothpaste?

Like toothpaste. Yeah. And I'm thinking, all right, do I put this on bread? I talked to somebody on social media that said put it on grilled cheese. Yeah. I just can't. I want to try it, but I haven't got up the. nerve yet. We should have did that on Patreon where you had to put some in your mouth and eat it

right then and take a video of it. Well, that'd even be better. I was just saying just to hear your expression as you taste it. Yeah. That'd be good. But video would be even better. We might do a special Patreon Vegemite edition. Yeah. Try it out. All right, Gibbs. We got some new supporters. So let's give them shoutouts. On Patreon, we had Scott Mackin jumped out of our highest level. That's cool. Nikki Hyan, Guy Hale. He's, should be a weatherman. Meteorologist Guy Hale. We had Michael Ryan, K. Cole.

K Cole. Kohl. Double A. Just double A. Wow. Not 9 Volt. Double A. Get a belt buckle like that.

Lauren Radburn. Stacey Graff. Amanda Riley. Amanda, yeah. Sophie Leffler. Lana Clayton. Alana? Lana or Lana, Alisa, Pamela Coburn, Michelle Hallett, Janine Jacoby, Nicole Egglestone.

Oh, the old Egglestone slipped in there, huh? Yep. All right. And Tara Murphy. Man, there's a lot of people on social media on that list. Yeah, and some cool names. If you just go to the names, our listeners have some really cool names. We do.

And some very unique spellings to names that I've never seen. seen before. And then if we go back into the vault, this week we selected Kate Melb. Been a long time Patreon supporter. So appreciate it, Kate. Super big shout out to Kate. And then we also had a lot of support on PayPal. We had Aaron Padilla, Cheryl Madalazzo. Ooh, you almost not made that one. Maybe I did. Maybe I did. I don't know. Huh. Whitney Queen. She's the queen. Don Repet. How you spell it? R-A-P-P-E-T-E. Repete.

Could be. Yeah. Could be. I don't know why you said it like Geppetto from... You just can't say it. You always have to try to do a voice, don't you? We had M-Han Lance. M-Han-Lance?

M-Han-L-L-N-E-Han. Yeah, M-Han. That's a good name. I liked that. And she was kind enough to send me a message to tell me how to say it. Make sure you said, M-Han. I would have butchered it for sure. Real hand, my hand, me hon.

Yeah. And then we had Donnie Reed. So great support on PayPal. Appreciate it all. Great support on Patreon. Social media is, you know, off the charts. It's a buzzing. We couldn't be more appreciative of everyone.

Got to give a big shout out to Maggie for the writing and the research on this Ramirez two-parter. Maggie does a great job. Yep. Amazing job. And then real quick gives, we want to talk about CrimeCon. You know, it's going to be in Nashville this year. Got my boots. You got your boots.

I got my boots. Got my chaps. You got your chaps. Assless, which is the only way you wear them, I know. But I had to cut my jeans back there, so it was appropriate. Yeah. Well, you cut the ass out of your jeans, too. Yeah.

Exactly. So that they're real, real assless. Yeah. It's the only way to do it. Actually, it'd be full ass, wouldn't it? Maybe. I don't know. Don't worry.

I got a... You got it covered. I got it. Well, yeah. Not really. I don't know if you have it covered. CrimeCon gave us a promo code. It's TCAT.

Double T at the end. If you have not signed up, you know, I suggest you do it. Go for it. It is so much fun. You can hang out with me, Mike. We'll be there. Yep, we're going to be there. And Nashville's going to be much bigger than it was last year.

Yeah. I might even ride the bull. You think? I'm assuming they have a bowl. Somewhere. I'll ride the bull. I'll take the bull by its horns. So if you use that promo code,

You get 10% off of the badge price. And let's do it. Make it happen. Make it happen. Come to CrimeCon. We'll probably even have a little T-Cat meetup. Can't get a hotel room. Don't worry.

Mike will have plenty in his room. You can sleep on my hotel room floor? Yeah, just bring a sleeping bag or, you know, blanket. Yeah, we'll make it work. We always do. All right, Gibbs, you're ready to get into this Ramirez part two. Part two. This is a little rougher than part one.

Yeah, part one was rough. we actually had a lot of people say that there was, uh, there was some door locking. There was some checking behind the, uh, the shower curtain. Oh, yeah. After they listened to that one. Yeah. Well, you're going to be doing it this time too. It's sad to say, but as bad as part one was, you know, this is probably worse.

Let's find out. So picking up where we left off last week, you know, California was on edge. There was a serial killer on the loose. We know it's Richard Ramirez. And this was a guy who didn't care what type of victim he selected. You know, Gibbs, he just, he didn't seem to have a type. So people all over the place, they were scared. Right.

Now, in the month of June, 1985, police were presented with yet another murder. This was a woman by the name of Patty Higgins. She was a resident of Arcadia, California. 28 years old, and she was found beaten and almost decapitated. Her neck had been slashed with a knife, stabbed. Someone was trying to decapitate her. I have a real problem with that action. I'm accustomed to a lot of stuff, but to take a head off,

it's just, for me, that's really rough. I have hard time watching that kind of stuff. Do you watch that stuff quite often? It's out there. I have a hard time watching it, though, because it's... Like real stuff? Yeah, you can find it. Oh, I take that, but I have seen some of the, was it like the Taliban or there was some beheadings.

Yeah, I remember seeing. It's tough, man. So I can't imagine how somebody can physically do that. I don't know. I just... It would take a lot. Yeah. It would take a lot.

But she had also been sodomized. There were no gunshot wounds or footprints at the crime scene. So there was really nothing. to tie this to the night stalker, but police thought just by the way everything happened, that this could have been him, right? It was such a horrible crime that they initially thought, you know, this had to be Richard Ramirez. Or at the time, it had to be the nightstocker. Right. Now, on July 2nd, we know that Richard goes back to Arcadia. And this time he picked out 75-year-old Mary Louise Cannon.

She lived on her own. She was asleep. The house was dark. Ramirez goes in through the front window. Takes off the screen, pries open this window. And he sees this elderly woman, Mary Louise Cannon, sleeping.

And he grabs a lamp from her nightstand and smashes it over her head. And not just once, over and over until she was passed out. knocked out unconscious. Okay. And then he chokes her. So he knocks her out unconscious, then says, I'm going to choke you. Wow.

But that's not enough. That's not enough violence for this guy. Not for him. Because he goes to the kitchen, grabs a knife, takes the knife, and stabs her repeatedly in the throat. Like we said, it's rough. There's no doubt about it. This guy has, he doesn't care. Nothing bothers him.

No, I think he gets enjoyed it. out of it. No, yeah. I think you're right. It's not even enough to say it doesn't bother him. I think it's the complete opposite end of the spectrum. He loves it. Yeah, this is a passion for him. This is excitement. And then he steals a few things from her house and he just walks right out the front door. So both of these happen in Arcadia, you know, fairly close together and the police are connecting them based on the knife wounds. Now, they do. did find a footprint on a rug in the home of Mary Louise Cannon, and it matched those via sneakers that they had found footprints of at many of the other scenes.

It's like the size 11, 12 or something like that. Yeah, I think you wore 11 and a half. And these shoes kind of play a central role, right? In this case, because they keep finding these footprints and it's helping them link some of these crimes and to the night stalker. but what I found very interesting about the shoes were that there wasn't a ton of people back then wearing a via no not really it's not it wasn't Nike or Reebok no I mean people have heard of them but what was known was that in that area where the killings occurred there were just a handful like maybe five or six of vias in that specific style in an 11 and a half that were sold within like a pretty big range of time. Oh, really? Yeah, it was like a very small population, a small number of

the shoes that were making these footprints that were sold. Isn't that amazing that they can do that? Yeah, even back then, right? We're talking in the 80s, they were able to, to get that information. They can take, you know, punch in my size 16 shoe. Yeah, that's funny. Your size seven and a half, but go on. Wait a minute now. Go on. For the record, I'm 10.5. 10.5.

So we'll leave it at that. But the computer can spit out like in this region, that shoe was sold X amount of times at these locations. Yeah. And then they can take it from there. I would think today that would be pretty easy. Yeah. I don't know how easy that was in, in 1985. I would think it would be pretty difficult, really.

Time frame. So I just thought that was an interesting fact that they were able to find that out. But I think at this point, Gibbs, please have. have more than enough evidence to say that they've got a serial killer, right? The footprints alone are tying these together. Yeah, they got enough there to correlate it all. So it's at this point where a lot of resources start to be thrown into the investigation. And there was something about this town of Arcadia for Richard Ramirez, because he goes back again. And this time it would be to the home of the Bennett family.

He walks through the front door, walks around the house, and realizes that there's four people in the family. They're all asleep. And the victim that he chooses is a 16-year-old girl named Whitney. And he beat her severely with a tire iron. And then he took a telephone cord, wrapped it around her neck,

and tightened it. But something strange happened while he was doing this. Spark started to fly out. out of this phone cord. Yeah. It was some amount of electricity. Yeah, they're kind of low voltage. Right?

Going through the cord. Yeah. But it scared him, which in itself is kind of strange, right? To think about Richard Ramirez, this scary Satanist, rapist murderer gets scared from a few sparks from a telephone court. But what he would say later is that, you know, he saw this 16 year old girl witness. and he start to breathe. And between that and the sparks, it scared him because he thought that Jesus Christ had

stepped in and saved this girl. Conquered his evil. His nemesis, right? Yeah. And he takes off. And so this girl wakes up the next morning. She's lying in a pool of her own blood. She has a massive headache, but she doesn't know what happened.

Right? She never saw this guy. I mean, he literally, while she was sleeping, beat her with a tire iron. The police are called, and they would find one of these of Veshoe prints on her comforter. Now, she survived this attack by Richard Ramirez, but it took over 400 stitches to close the wounds on her head. Man, that's amazing. 400 stitches. She's got more stitches than you have hair.

I guarantee you. I don't have that many hairs. Almost 500 stitches, man. I can't imagine. How brutal. And the other thing about this incident was that, you know, he didn't harm any of the other three family members. He didn't steal anything from the home. So it was kind of, you know, very different from his MO or what he had been doing. And I just wonder how much of it was the fact that, you know, he got spooked off. Yeah, and in such a way that he didn't wake up any other family members because she didn't wake up until the morning. So no one knew that she was even been attacked. No, not until the next morning. But it's around this time when police start to come up with a composite sketch of the Nightstalker. You know, they've had a number of witnesses that have been able to give them descriptions. And now they've got, you know, if you want to call it a task force or whatever, but they have a lot of resources going into this investigation.

And what they come up with is that, you know, this man is tall. He's thin. He has a shoe size of 11.5. You mentioned that. And they could tell that from the footprints at a lot of the crime scenes. He's Hispanic with messy hair. He has incredibly bad teeth, which I always get a kick out of Gibbs because I go back to that, you know, what they found in the car finding some type of an appointment. dental appointment.

Yeah. Maybe he's going to get some... Caps? Caps. For replacements or something, you know? Because from everything you read, this guy was not a fan of Dennis. He hadn't taken care of his teeth for... He's drinking soda.

His life, his entire life. Yeah. Some other things that would come out is that people said that he smelled like wet leather, like a real bad smell, but... particularly like wet leather. Not leather, wet leather. So I'm just trying to imagine what wet leather. Don't act like you don't know what wet leather smells like.

You know what leather smells like. You know what wet leather smells like too. You know, I thought we were pretty cool that we were going to talk about that stuff anymore. Go on with our story. They knew he was a Satanist. They knew he was a sadist because they had these survivors that are giving them the details of their encounters with him. and he was very interested in sodomy. I mean, this is something that you saw a lot of in his attacks. I think it was a fetish of his. I would say it probably was. Yeah. And Ramirez is not going to wait long to strike again. It's going to be July 7th. He's dressed all in black when he drives to Monterey Park.

Is he trying to look like my man, Johnny Cash? No, I don't think anybody would. mistake Richard Ramirez for Johnny Cash. That's good because Johnny's only one Johnny. There is only one Johnny. And Johnny would be to live in shit out of Richard Ramirez. He would too, man. He would have taken care of him if he could have got his hands on him. Now Richard picks out the home of Joyce Nelson, 61 years old. He enters her house through an unlocked window and she's asleep on the couch. He wakes her up, points of 22 at her head. And then he grabs her her up off of this couch by her hair and takes her into a bedroom. That's just terrifying, really.

It really is to think about like being, uh, it's bad enough for like a home invasion, but to be totally asleep and especially the way I sleep. I mean, I am such a heavy sleeper. To think about waking up to somebody standing over you with a gun to your head. Yeah. And then drag me by your hair. That's, that's scary. To another room.

It really is. Now, she's trying to fight him and get away. And this makes him very upset to the point where he beats this woman until she's unconscious would kick her in the face, Gibbs. This is a 61 year old woman. Yeah. This piece of shit kicks her in the face so hard that he leaves the Avia shoe print on her face. Wow. It's just mind boggling.

That is. Shocking. But he wouldn't stop. He would continue to beat this poor woman until she died. And then like he does in a lot of his crimes, you know, he walks throughout the house, steals whatever he can find that has any type of value. And then he just walks right out the front door to his car like. Nanchilat. Like he just delivered a Domino's pizza.

Yeah. Just dropped it off. Getting back my car. And I'm not sure to him. it's that much different. I really don't. Other than the excitement that he probably gets from doing these horrible things. He's not losing any sleepover, right?

No. But what is amazing about this is he doesn't stop here because he comes back to Monterey Park around 3 o'clock in the morning, goes to the home of 63-year-old Sophie Dickman. she is a psychiatric nurse and again gets in through a pet door. And we talked about that, right, Gibbs? Dangerous. Very dangerous. I had seen some remarks on our social media pages about people saying that, you know,

they used to use their own dog door to get back in the house if they locked himself out. Or they, you know, their parents had one and they were out late at night. And that's how they snuck back in. They snuck back in. Yeah, a little scary. I know they're very handy, right? Because you don't have to let the dog in and out. But anytime you've got like a, that kind of opening that somebody can either stick their hand up through and just unlock a door.

Yeah, especially if you're double joint it, man. You can like move your shoulders and stuff? Can you? You crack me up. But this is the way that he gets in. He has his gun out. He turns on the lights. and he runs towards Sophie who's in the bed,

puts a hand over her mouth and tells her not to look at him. He flat out tells her that if you look at me, I will kill you. But Sophie Dickman knows who this man is, right? Because of the newspapers, she knows that she's in the presence of what the press is calling the nightstalker. But I mentioned she was a psychiatric nurse. So she had handled and she knew how to handle people like Richard Ramirez.

You know, I have to assume Gibbs that she would have dealt with all types of different people in her line of work. So one of the things that she sets out to do is to not upset him. You know, he's handcuffing her. He actually puts a pillowcase over her head at one point, but she's determined not to upset. this man to try to make it through this alive. And this is something that happens in a lot of the crimes committed by Richard Ramirez. He asks her where her jewelry is, where her money is. And she says that she doesn't have any.

And he punches her in the face, calls her a liar and tells her that he's going to kill her if she's not honest with him. So she breaks down. She tells her there is some jewelry in the bathroom. I guess she hides her jewelry in the bathroom. He takes her in. She gives him the hidden jewelry. But while she's doing this, she tries to hide a diamond ring.

And he sees her. And he punches her in the face repeatedly. And then Richard Ramirez sets about to sexually assault this 63-year-old woman. But he's not able to. He's not able to get an erection, to maintain an erection. and so he's peppering her with questions about money, more valuables. And at one point during this encounter, he makes Sophie swear to Satan that she's not hiding anything else from him.

Most people would have you swear the other way, you know? Yeah, but not Richard Ramirez. That's how highly he looks at his person he worships. Yep. He wants you to swear to Satan. Won't do it. But the way that she handles this situation, it ultimately works out. She survives this encounter with Richard Ramirez.

So I don't know how much of it Gibbs was the way that she handled it or the fact that he had already killed someone that night. I don't know. But that's how it turned out. And she would later tell police that her attacker was a good looking, tall, thin man with bad teeth. And there it is again, good looking. I've heard that a lot, though, on the social media,

some of the gals were saying he was good looking until he smiled. Now, see, most of the emails that I saw were the other way around. Really? Yeah, saying, can't believe that people thought this guy was good looking, but I think it goes both ways. What did you think when you looked at him? I did not think he was a good looking chap at all. You're a good judge of guys are good looking.

I am. Give me my due credit. You got your credit there, buddy. But she did. She described him as good looking. Now, at the scene, they didn't find any of the Avia footprints, but you got to figure, Gibbs, with that description, who else can it be? Right.

They know it's the night stalker just based off that description. It's all fitting together. Then on July 20th, Ramirez rolled into the upscale community of Glendale, and he was armed with a brand new machete that he had just purchased. And he sets his sights on the home of Max and Lila Needling. And again, both of these people, they're in their 60s. So at this point, you know, we said he didn't have a type because in the beginning, he was kind of all over the map. But here in this stretch, he seems like he's targeting people in their 60s, mostly women. but this happens to be a couple.

He enters the home, sneaks into their bedroom, and immediately the first thing he does is he swings this machete into Max Needling's neck. He's trying to decapitate this man, Gibbs. He certainly is. But even though this machete was brand new, the blade on it was dull,

too dull to cut through a person's neck. Yeah, I can see that. I mean, you would have to have a very, very sharp instrument, I would think, to get through all of the tendons and the spinal cord and all of that. Find a machete off the shelf at the local hardware store is not the same. Oh, it's taking a home and sharpening it. Yeah, getting it ready for whatever you're going to do with it.

Which should be cutting down brush, trekking through a jungle, not swinging it into the neck of a 60-year-old man while he's sleeping. Exactly. So he's not able to do what he's. he's trying to do with this machete. So he just takes out a gun and he shoots both Max and Lela right in the face. But after he does this and they're dead, he proceeds to mutilate their bodies with the machete. Just making cuts.

And that's next level type stuff, Gibbs. Yeah, it really is. It's, man, just another level sick. But very much like the incident that happened on July 7th, this July 20th, 20th incident would not be the only one because at 4 a.m., he enters the home of Chainerong and Somkid Covenant. And this is in Sun Valley. So he's basically driven from Glendale to Sun Valley, found another home, was able to get in. And the Covenants, they were from Thailand. So they were immigrants. And they had two young children. As he enters the house,

house, he first encounters the wife, Sommekid, sleeping on the couch, and places a gun to her head. And again, he tells her, don't make a sound. If you do, I will kill you. He leaves her there for a minute while he goes to the bedroom and he shoots the husband dead. And he comes back. He ties up the wife with a cord from a hair dryer. And then he ties up to children as well. He's a real bastard man. He is. I mean, here's another guy that if I could just line him up in front of you and just watch you go to town on this guy. I would too. I'd take him to school, buddy. I know you would.

And I'd pay good money to see that. No refunds. Because he takes this woman into the bedroom and gives, he would rape her repeatedly on the bed. He specifically does this. next to her dead husband. Yeah, that's making me sick. So she has to endure this unbelievable, a sexual assault with the knowledge that her husband is dead.

And she's seeing him. Her kids aren't far, far away. No. No, they're tied up in another room. But they can hear. I'm sure they could. Could not imagine hearing your mom screaming. Because she's being violated.

Yeah. And not knowing what was going to happen next to yourself, you know, to your own self. And she doesn't know what's going to happen to her kids. Yeah. So she's, yeah. She's worried about all of it, right? She doesn't know what this guy's going to do with them. But luckily he doesn't.

He doesn't hurt the kids. He kind of follows his regular M.O. asking about money, makes her swear to Satan as well. And then he just takes whatever he thinks he can sell and leaves the house. And I say just, but Gibbs, think about the weight. the disastrous things that he's left behind. Oh, I mean, just the trauma on the kids. Yeah, that's probably the best word.

And the mom. You know, a dead husband, dead father, violated wife, kids traumatized because of what they went through. I don't think there's a therapist that could ever occur what happened to them. And that's what you say. I mean, you know, he killed at least 13 people. but he ruined countless lives. Yeah, that's a good word. He ruined countless lives. On August 6th, he travels to Northridge and he picks out the home of a couple Chris and Virginia

Peterson. He sneaks into their bedroom and he shoots 27-year-old Virginia in the face. And then he turns and he shoots Chris in the temple. But even being shot in the temple gives, Chris fighting and he's trying to avoid being shot because Ramirez fires off a couple more shots, but they're struggling and Chris is fighting him and this forces Ramirez to run away. And incredibly both of these people, this couple, they survived. But to me, it makes me think that Richard Ramirez is a coward. You know, he prayed a lot on elderly women that he knew we're going to be alone. And now all of a sudden, you know, this 20-some-year-old guy who took a bullet to the temple, by the way, let's not forget that, he puts up a fight and Ramirez gets the hell out of there.

So you got to applaud this guy, Chris, because he not only saved his life, he probably saved his wife's life as well. But it would just be two days later that Richard Ramirez, would steal a car and drive to Diamond Bar. And this time, he would choose the residence of Sakina and Elias Abawath very early in the morning, about 2.30 a.m., gets inside the home, walks right into their room and immediately kills the husband Elias with a shot to the head. And then he jumps on the wife, Sakina, punching her in the face and the stomach. He would, force her to perform oral sex on him. He would handcuff her. And then eventually he's going to ask her

where the valuables are. Sure. That's what he does. But he would also rape and sodomize this woman and force her to swear to Satan as it was happening. And all of this is shocking. But what happens next might even be more shocking. Because as this is going on, her three-year-old, walks into the room. Now it's scary. It was scary, but this is really scary. That's what I'm saying. That's even, somehow it's even scarier now.

Yeah. Yeah. frightening. Ramirez grabs him and ties him up. But then he goes back to doing what he was doing to this poor woman. But eventually he leaves. And again, luckily he doesn't hurt the child. And it's actually this three-year-old that's able to run to the neighbors to get

help. I mean, you talk about trauma Gibbs. Three years old seeing that. And I don't know, I don't know, I don't know at three if you know what you're seeing. I don't know if they know what they're seeing. They just know that their mom is being hurt. It's being hurt. Right. Yeah. And they know it's not right. Whatever's happening is not right. But you know there's the potential there for some real scarring. Yeah. Yeah. You hope it didn't. But to both, right? To the wife, to the three-year-old. The wife. for sure, you know, you just hope the three-year-old doesn't retain that. I mean, most of my memories, childhood memories, don't begin until fifth, sixth grade. I got some around third,

but most of them don't, I really don't remember things until about fifth grade. Fifth or sixth grade? Yeah, there's a big period of time there. I just don't recall. Now, when you say fifth or six, was it the first time you were in fifth or like the second or third? The third. Because those are, those are different years. So I was growing facial hair. You were driving at my temps. In the fifth grade. Are you serious? Fifth or sixth grade? You don't remember a lot before that?

No, not really. No. Very sketchy. The only thing I really remember before fifth grade was my first kiss and, like, because I asked the girl to marry me. It's like third grade down by the creek. Mm-hmm. You know, she...

Go on. Yeah. Told her I wanted to marry her. Gave her little kiss and we never got married. Never did. Imagine that. She moved away. Third grade.

Third grade. Her dad. I ran a Benjamin Franklin store. I remember those. Yeah. We had one of those in the town that I grew up in. Yeah. So he managed one of those and the German family.

A lot of detail there. Yeah. That's what I remember. I can't tell you anything else before that or until I get you up to fifth grade. Just the first kiss all the way up to fifth grade. That's it. That's all I got. You had long blonde hair, cute little girl.

No, that's still the same thing. It's all part of the same incident. Yeah. But you don't remember anything else. No. All right, Gibbs. I think now is a good time to switch gears a little bit. Talk about our sponsors for this episode. And I think I want to start off talking about daily harvest. You and I have been getting daily harvest for a while now. We have. You know, they've got mouth watering healthy smoothies. They've got

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which is not going to happen. But if you were, you could sign up to say that's something I want. Get me one of those. And get three or four people to go in and buy this Shatsu massager. It must be worth getting married again. Don't tell your wife that. I don't think she'll like that. They have price matching and free shipping every day. They also have a top rated app for iPhone, iPad, and Apple Watch so couples can manage their registries on the go. So our listeners can sign up with Zola right now and they'll receive a $50 credit towards your registry. All you have to do is go to Zola.com slash T-Cat. That's Zola. Z-O-L-A dot com slash T-CAT, two T-CATs at the end.

That's right. And I got to tell you, Gibbs, obviously, I'm not getting married, but I bought one of those Ness thermostats. I've been wanting. Right. I just bought it from the Zola website. Oh, awesome. You can use this Zola.com.

You don't have to be getting married. Obviously, it's designed for, you know, bridal registry. Right. But it's a website with the best brands out there. And they have great pricing. And I just bought the Nest Thermostat installed it. Loved it. I love it, man.

That's awesome. So convenient. So give it a try. ola.com slash teacat. And now we got to do a total 180 to get back into Richard Ramirez. And you know, at this point, Gibbs, I think Ramirez is starting to realize that he's been operating in the Los Angeles area too long. You know, he's getting a lot of heat in, in this area.

So what he decides to do is head down to San Francisco. And he's first going to hit Chinatown. And he falls in older. woman home gets inside of her house and beats her unconscious. It steals a bunch of things and leaves. And then later, he would enter the home of Peter and Barbara Pan. And Peter is 66 years old. And Richard Ramirez kills him while he's sleeping with a single gunshot to the temple.

Barbara is 62 years old and she is beaten and raped. And then he shoots her in that. the head, you know, ransacks the house and leaves. But before he does, he would take a tube of her lipstick and draw a pinagram on the bedroom wall and write the words jack the knife. Investigators would find the Avia shoe prints at the scene. And at this time, the mayor of San Francisco is Diane Feinstein. Really?

Yeah. She was the mayor of San Francisco at this. point in time. Okay. And she makes a decision that she's going to hold a televised press conference to give out the information about the VSU prints. Because up to this point, I think the police have been, they've been holding that back. And this really ticks off the police.

They don't want this information out for a number of reasons. First and foremost, you know, I think they believe that Richard Ramirez is the type of guy that is following his case in the media on television. And they don't want him to know what they know about him because they don't want him to start getting rid of the evidence that would tie him to these rapes and murders. And unfortunately, that is exactly what happens. You know, he sees this press conference

and he ends up throwing his shoes off the Golden State Bridge. Exactly what anybody would do, I would think, unless you're really stupid. If you had half a brain and you knew that this is what the police were using to tie you to all these, you get rid of those shoes and get a different damn pair of shoes. But that was just a, it was a very bad move. Yeah. That's why, you know, we talk about it a lot on other cases. The police always know a little bit more information than you think, but they're holding it back, right? Got to.

They're putting that 4% in their pocket or whatever it is to have at a later date when they can actually use it. You just can't lay it all out there. For a number of reasons that you and I have discussed, you know, one is you have to have something to discount people that come forward attention seekers. Yeah. That can only really tell you what they've seen in the news. And it's that kind of stuff that hasn't been released that if they don't know that, you can discount them. Exactly. But also to help tie the right person to the crimes.

Yeah. I mean, multiple purposes behind. it. But he doesn't stay in San Francisco very long because a couple of days later, he travels back to L.A. And it's on August 24th that Ramirez goes to the home of Bill Carnes and Inaz Erickson. This is a couple living together. They're not married. He enters through the back door, goes to the bedroom, Bill wakes up, and Ramirez shoots him in the head three times. So his, his MO, I mean, he takes care of the man right away. It does seem, yep, I would agree with that.

Now, he does target a lot of houses where there's one elderly woman. So I just wonder if some of these houses Gibbs that, you know, he breaks into, does he not know that the man is there? Has he not done enough stalking ahead of time like a BTK would have done? Or does he know it and just he feels like he's okay that they're asleep? that he'll take care of the man first. I just wonder. I don't think he cares.

I think he goes in on that he's prepared for whatever. That's why he carries the gun. Until a 20-year-old guy fights him and then he runs away like the coward that he is. Yeah, exactly. But he actually tells Inez that he's the night stalker. And I believe that this is the first time that he has told one of his victims just come out and said it. I mean, it's like you're already frightened, but now you hear him say, I'm the nightstocker. Because it's all over the news.

Yeah. And you know what he does. Yeah. So at that point, you're like, shit. You know what he does and you know that most people don't get away. Exactly. Don't survive. And even the ones that do, they survive something horrific.

Yeah. Yeah. They're not getting away on the scale. When your anxiety level just went up like big time. Off the charts. Off the charts. not enough adivant in the world to bring it back down. Now, he makes Inez swear that she loves Satan.

He is forcing some of these women to, you know, talk about Satan, pledge their allegiance to Satan, whatever you want to call it. But he's doing this as he's beating her. And eventually he ties her up. He would walk through the house as he would do in a lot of his crimes, stealing things, getting things ready. But he would come back to I. And he would rape and sodomize her.

And before he leaves, he tells her, you know, tell the authorities that the night stalker was here. That's spooky. That's some spooky shit right there. Yeah, he's kind of getting, uh, he's playing into his own ego. His own hype. Yeah. I like that. And a lot of these guys do.

You know, once the media starts giving them nicknames and talking about them nonstop, it's almost like they can't help it. You know, Dennis Raider, BTK, you see it happen a lot. Now, after he leaves, Inez is alive and she's able to untie herself and rushes to the neighbors for help. And the medical personnel come, they get Bill, he's rushed into surgery, they're able to remove the bullets from his head. And he survives. Three shots to the head. That's, that's miraculous. It's a miracle. what it is. Well, that's kind of what miraculous means. I think they're, I think my word better. I think they're very similar. Because it's his Satan versus versus a miracle. A miracle. Markle. You sound like a miracle. Miracle. You almost sound like America. America. Miracle.

Miracles are good. I like miracles. Well, it seems to me like this is. You know, you survive three headshots at what must have been pretty close range. Yeah. Not too many. people. I think that's God's work. Would do that. Sorry there, buddy. Satan. Good wins. Good does win. Does. In the end. In the end. Sometimes you've got to give it a little time, but it comes through.

But Inez Erickson is able to give a very strong description of Richard Ramirez to the police. They also find a footprint. It's going to be at 11.5. A few days after this incident, the police would find a car that Ramirez had stolen and abandoned and they would find a fingerprint on the rearview mirror. They run this print through the database and it comes back as belonging to a Richard Ramirez, 25 year old drifter from Texas. They can tell he's got a very long criminal record and now they have an actual picture. So they go back, get his mugshots from previous arrests.

and they're able to release that to the public. So now everyone knows what the night stalker looks like. And the police would actually hold a press conference. And they said, quote, we know who you are now. There will be no place you can hide. Now, on the 30th of August, and again, I haven't talked about it much, Gibbs, but all of this is happening in 1985, right? in just a number of months.

This is a lot of damage being done by Richard Ramirez in a very short amount of time. So August 30th, he goes to see his brother. And on August 31st, Richard Ramirez would walk to a corner store in East Los Angeles. And I don't think Gibbs at this point, he actually knew that his face was plastered all over the TV because, you know, he's walking around in plain sight. He's walking past police officers.

But at one point, there are some older women, and they see him. And they recognize him as the night stalker. And they all start pointing at him and calling him El Matador. El Matador? Matador. And they're using it to basically say, you know, he's the killer, right? Like a Matador. Right.

In a bull fight. Don't they do it with running the bulls too? No, they just trying to. to get to hell out of the way and not get killed themselves. I don't think they're trying to kill the bulls. I try to do that thing. Wear a red cape. Yeah.

You don't have to, you know, if you want to wear under ruse and play Superman, that's fine. No, I do it. You don't have to tell it to a national audience. If you hook up, I don't know, find a farmer, get a bull. Oh, you actually tried to do a Matador thing with a real book. Oh, you would do it. Yeah, if you can hook it up. I think people would pay money to see that.

I'd do it. I think the chances of us continuing with this. podcast would go down exponentially. I'm fast. You're not that fast, man. In my head, I am fast. You might have been fast in your track days that you always talk about. Like flashed cord in the 60s or whenever it was.

Zoom. Look, I moved. You didn't even see it. Don't fight. Don't play with bull. You'll get the more. You get the ones. Don't mess with the bull.

All right. But they do. These ladies see him. They start screaming out El Matador. And he takes off. You know, he runs away. And he actually. runs across the Santa Ana Freeway, tries to pull a woman out of her car to steal her car. But he

stopped by two men, Carmelo Robles and Arthur Benevita's. So he jumps a fence and he lands in the yard of a man named Luis Munoz. And Munoz hits him. So I mean, you got to think about it. It's like a Benny Hill sketch. Yeah. He's running around. These people are hitting him. So he jumps back over the fence, runs into the yard of a man named Faustino Piny, whose daughter had her car running in the driveway. And Ramirez confronts them and says that he either is taking this car or he's going to kill them. And this is, this is where I find it comical because, you know, you look at pictures of Richard Ramirez. Like I said, he looks like he weighs about 125 pounds soaking wet. Right. And this guy, Faustino grabs him by the back of the neck and says, no, I don't think you'll be taking the car.

But Ramirez is already in the car. This guy's got him by the back of the neck. And he tries to take off and he turns the wheel and he runs into like a wall or chimney, the house. Right. So then again, he gets out of the car. He's got to run away. He tries to steal another car from a woman who was parked in front of her house.

but she recognizes him as well. Because again, I can't stress it enough. His picture is all over. It's everywhere. People seen him. El Madador. And that's what she says. She screams El Madador.

And Ramirez punches her in the stomach. But this woman's husband, Manuel, hears her screaming. And he knows something is wrong. So this is what he does, Gibbs. He grabs a metal bar from like his gate. And he runs to the car. car and he beats the shit out of Ramirez over the head. Good for him.

Now, Ramirez is able to run away, but Manuel is chasing him. And so are a bunch of other people. And literally, they're chasing him down the street. Now, Manuel would swing at him again and miss as they're running. But then he's able to connect. And he puts Richard Ramirez down. So he's down on the ground. They've got this whole group of people that are basically

holding him. They're not going to let him get up and get away. And eventually, you know, sheriffs, LAPD, they get there. And the police actually have to break this group up. So I think they have designs on, you know, hurting Richard Ramirez real bad. They might have killed him. They might have. If the police had not shown up. Yeah. We're happy to announce that the individual we have in custody is Richard Ramirez, the nightstock. I can't begin to tell you. How proud we, all of us, are the people in this community who, to a man and a woman, were involved in trying to track this guy down and capture him. So it's kind of amazing when you think about it.

I mean, I don't know that we've ever done a case where a serial killer, especially of this magnitude, but any big-time serial killer was essentially caught by a mob of people. Citizens arrest? Yeah. Vigilante? Citizens arrest. I don't think it's ever, you know, I'm sure it's probably happened before. We'd never covered it.

I don't remember covering. Yeah. So later on, police get him to jail. He admits pretty easily to being the night stalker, but also says that he wants the electric chair. You know, he's saying that he would rather die than live out his life in prison. But something kind of fascinating happens while Ramirez is in jail waiting trial because actor Sean Penn is in the same jail.

I guess he punched an extra on the set of one of his movies. And it took a little while, but Richard Ramirez actually comes up to Sean Penn and asks for an autograph. I mean, what kind of system you got here where Sean Penn is in the same area as Richard Ramirez? That's really messed up, man. They weren't looking out for Sean Penn a whole lot there, I don't think. And I guess after Sean Penn got out, because obviously he's

not staying as long as Richard Ramirez. Wonder if he had any pen pals. Well, they become pen pals. A real pen pal. Yeah. Like a pen pen pen. No, not, not, I wouldn't say pin pals. Richard Ramirez somehow writes a letter and gets it to Sean Penn. Okay.

Now, how you got Sean Penn's address? I don't know. I probably said, hey, Sean, can I have your address? But in the letter, he says, hey, Sean, stay tough, hit them again. And he signs it, Richard Remain. as 666. That's not too shocking. The part that really got me was that Sean Penn apparently wrote him back. And in the letter it said, Richard, it's impossible to be incarcerated and not feel some

type of kinship with your fellow inmates. But I've done the impossible. I feel absolutely no kinship with you. And I hope gas descends upon you before your sanity does. You know? Good. Yeah, that's what he writes back. Yeah, it's good.

I just thought that was kind of cool. Yeah. He was trying to set the point. Quit sending me letters, buddy. Yeah. We're not buddies. I got no love for you, brother. All right.

Now, the jury selection in the Ramirez case would not start until July of 1988. That's a long time. It is. And when Ramirez first shows up to court, that's where you get this famous picture of, him holding up his hand and he's got a pentagram on the inside on the palm of his hand. And he would yell out in the courtroom, you know, hail Satan and all kinds of crazy shit. But the next month, the LA Times breaks a story. And it's that some employees at the jail had heard Ramirez talking about shooting the prosecutor with a gun that he was going to get brought in secretly to the court.

So they actually end up installing metal detectors. You got to remember, this is 88. I mean, now you can't get into a courtroom without going through a metal detector. Full body cavity search. Yeah, for you, especially. So nothing happens. But the trial would be put on hold later that month because one of the jurors, Phyllis Singletary, she didn't show up.

And she would later be found shot to death. inside her apartment. And you have to imagine Gibbs, everybody on this jury scared shitless at this point. I would be, wouldn't you? Because they assumed that Richard Ramirez had somehow set it up.

Yeah. Had her killed. They're panicked. Yeah, they wonder if they're next. But police do figure it out that Phyllis Singletary was shot by her boyfriend. He was found dead in a hotel room.

He had taken his own. life with the same weapon, the same gun that he used to shoot her. So they were able to figure that out. But man, put yourself in that jury's shoes for that period of time. It would have been scary. While Ramirez is waiting on his trial and, you know, even during the trial, we kind of mentioned it in the episode one. He had a ton of women sending him letters very interested in him. And one woman in particular was Doreen Lioi. And she actually began writing to Ramirez in 1985. And she would write him, it was said, you know, maybe 75 letters while he was in jail.

So the trial happens. There's not really a lot of suspense, right? We're not going to spend a lot of time talking about this trial. It's on September 20th, 1989 that Ramirez is convicted of all charges. So we have 13 counts of murder, five attempted murders, 11. sexual assaults and 14 burglaries. And that's just what he was convicted of. You know, for a fact, Gibbs, he committed way more crimes.

Much more than that. You know, there was a bunch that either they didn't find a footprint, they couldn't connect him. This trial is a joke. With the jury in the above entitled action, find the defendant, Richard Ramirez, guilty of murder. So that's the verdict. but you can hear Ramirez shouting out to the court, right? It's Charles a joke. Probably dropped an F-bomb on somebody there.

Sounded like it. And Richard Ramirez would be sentenced to die in the gas chamber. And as he's leaving the courthouse, there's a very famous video of him. And this is the one where he says, you know, big deal. Death always went with the territory. See you in Disneyland. What's he going to say, Gibbs? he's going to die.

Yeah, he's going to act all tough. He's going to, you know, might as well. Yeah. Might as well keep up the act. He's not going to cry over it. Not in front of the cameras at least. Right. He might be crying in his cell.

Probably was. Now, this trial cost the taxpayers $1.8 million. And this is in the late 80s. I don't know what that converts to today, Gibbs. It's like $4 million. You think? Yeah. Well, stock market's been kind of crazy lately.

It has been. Maybe down to 3.5. This week especially. Yeah. It's been, it's been, I can't retire yet. But at the time, it was the most expensive trial in the history of California. But we know that just about six years later, right, OJ's going to come along. Blow it out of the water.

He's going to blow that one out of the water. Yeah, big time. And we talked about Doreen Loi. And she and Richard Ramirez would marry while he was on death row in San Quentin. I don't get it, but okay. I don't get it either. I don't. I really don't understand any of that stuff.

This is 1996. She started writing him in 1985. Ramirez actually proposed to her in 1988. So I don't know. She was playing hard to get, I guess, because 11 years after they first started corresponding and eight years after he proposed, they got married. 41-year-old Doreen Loi, a freelance magazine editor. wore white to the wedding, which lasted about 15 minutes.

There was no reception, no cake, no champagne. The couple did pose for a photograph. They were also allowed to embrace and kiss once. Witnesses say the groom showed no emotion, never even smiled. I just wanted to say I'm ecstatically happy today and very, very proud to have married Richard and to be his wife. Leoy would not talk about why she married a convicted killer, now on death row. earlier she had told the Los Angeles times that she became attracted to Ramirez the first time she saw his picture. Looking back, I see it was a turning point for me, she said.

I saw something in his eyes, something that captivated me. So he doesn't smile in the picture at all. No. They get to kiss and embrace one time. That's it. No conjugal visits. He probably ain't happy. It's hot and spicy.

It's steamy up in there. Kind of like some people's real marriages, man. It kind of is. Somebody asked her why she married him and why. Yeah. The guy's on death row. There's no future there. No.

Makes no sense whatsoever. Now, she got to do a press conference on TV. It's a... I don't know if that had something to do with it. She got her 15 minutes. Maybe. Yeah? To wear 15 minutes to get.

It's not the kind I would want. That's for sure. And she had to kiss that mouth, man. That garbage breath? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Wet, wet leather. Because her family basically disowned her, Gibbs, because of this marriage to Richard Ramirez.

I don't know how you back somebody like that. I don't know how you say, oh, I still love you. Yeah, you're at work and you're like, oh, yeah, my daughter just married Richard Ramirez. Ooh, passing out the cigars. But apparently she visited him, you know, for a while, four times a week. When she tells people that her husband's got some killer look. That's a good one. That's a good one. Too soon? No, not too soon. On August 6, 2006, Ramirez lost his first round of appeals with the California Supreme Court. They upheld his convictions and his death sentence. In 2009, DNA would link Ramirez to a cold case from San Francisco that happened back in 1984. And this was a nine-year-old found part of the cold case. partially nude hanging by her shirt, Gibbs, from a water spigot in the basement of her family

apartment. That makes me sick, man. Yeah, sick to my stomach. She was displayed like Christ on the cross, you know, arms splayed. And on this one, you know, I don't shy away too much, I don't even want to go into the details of everything that happened to this poor little girl. You know, she was only nine years old. But suffice to say, it's a lot of the same stuff that we've been talking about, right?

Because DNA links Richard Ramirez to this case. And that's all you need to say. And that's all you need to know. Now, he's not going to be, he would never be convicted of this, but it's a pretty strong DNA link. But his DNA would not be the only person linked to this case. There, there's a second suspect, but the police have never given out that information of who it is. Oh, that's scary. So it is to think that two people might have done, you know, some type of act like that together

and that the one person has, you know, got away with it. Richard Ramirez died from B-cell lymphoma in 2013. So he got off lucky. Yeah, he died before the state got to kill him. Yeah. I hope it was painful. Been on death row for 23 years when he died. And you and I have talked about this on more than one occasion.

I get the fact that, you know, you have to exhaust all your appeals. There have been people on death road that have been found to not be guilty. I get that. I get the whole stay period, you know, where you want some due diligence to maybe occur over time. I do. But in a case like Richard Ramirez? Yeah, there's no and ifs or buts about it. He did it.

I hate the fact that the taxpayers. are footing the bill for this guy for that long. I hate it. Now, Ramirez couldn't make it work with Doreen. Imagine that. He just couldn't make it work. It's kind of difficult to have a successful marriage. I mean, he wasn't taken out the trash.

He wasn't cutting the grass. He wasn't holding up his end of the chores. He wasn't paying an electric bill, man. No. He wasn't splitting any of the utilities. You're right. And I think he was having an affair. He might have been.

With that guy in the cell next to him. He might have been. I don't know. But they never got divorced. They separated, but they never divorced. So she was still legally married to Richard Ramirez when he died in 2013. But after he died, his body was unclaimed for weeks. And the prison said that, you know, they had reached out to next of kin.

There was nobody that was going to claim the body of Richard Ramirez. They didn't want it. They didn't want it. They didn't want to have to pay for it either. No, hell no. So in the end, he died alone. No one wanted anything to do with him, which I guess is the way it should be. Yeah.

For somebody like that. Absolutely. Of America's most notorious serial killers died this morning in a California hospital, Richard Ramirez, better known as the Knight Stalker, who terrorized Southern California back in the mid-80s, beating, slashing, or shooting his victims. Prison officials say he died of natural. causes. Nightstocker Richard Ramirez died at age 53. The one person you don't hear a lot about though is Doreen Lioi. I think we talked about the 15 minutes. You just you don't hear from her.

I think she's worked pretty hard over the years to stay out of the public eye. She probably figured out pretty quickly that that wasn't the best avenue. She finally wised up. Well, you know, we talked about what's in it for her. What we didn't talk about is, you know, how can that hurt you? Who the hell is going to hire you? You know, if they know that you married Richard Ramirez. Yeah, they're definitely going to have concerns about your judgment. Yeah, your decision making may not be up to snuff with what we need at this company. That's it, Gibbs. That is the case of Richard Ramirez. Sick bastard. He was. He was a sick bastard. You know, just the praying on the elderly, the things that he did to women.

And kids. Oh, and kids. Yeah. I mean, there was a couple times in some of the incidents where I wanted to say, well, at least he didn't hurt the children. Right. There were a couple of children and apparently he didn't harm them. Not those. Not those, but he did harm others.

Other children. I just think he was pure evil. He really do. gave a shit. He was going to do what he wanted to do. He didn't feel bad about it. He got off on it. And there was nothing that was going to stop him until he hit East L.A. And those guys took care of it. The East Siders, they took care of him, man. East L.A. always does, man. Right. You want to hear some voicemails? Yeah, I'd like to hear something more positive. Something, hopefully. Hey, Mike and Gibby. It's just wanted to call and say hi and let y'all know how amazing you

to us and how much I love the T-Cat family. I've made so many friends. It's awesome. And it's pretty cool to wake up every day and look at all the posts and messages and everyone's pictures and just wanted to tell you to keep doing what you're doing because we all love it. And I absolutely can't wait to drink some cold beers with y'all at CrimeCon. So I love you so much and keep your own time ticking. Aw, Gibbs, we love Jess.

We do. Jess has been one of our biggest supporters from way back in the beginning. She's always reaching out to us, social media. I'm still waiting on my pottery coffee mug. She's going to get it for you. Where's my coffee mug, Jess? Yeah, she does amazing work with pottery. She does.

She's probably making me. pottery right now to actually make money not to send us right yes yeah yeah pay some bills but yeah she's uh she's amazing and uh she cracks me up because she's you know this little petite thing and and and uh her husband's like this really big guy you know so when you see pictures of them it just makes me laugh the contrast yeah yeah yeah but she's yeah she's adorable man hey guys this is jerry from a southwest Missouri area I just call them to say, you know, my wife and myself, we really dig the podcast, listen to both of them. I just listen to Richard Ramirez's podcast tonight.

Is it just me or if anybody else thinks he sounds like Christopher Walkins also? But anyways, yeah, just keep up to good work, guys. We love it. You guys give me through many, many miles every week. You know, I drive truck and, yeah, I listen to you and a few other podcasts, many, many miles. Keep it up. And as you guys always say, keep your own time ticking. Good job, guys. Thanks. So great voicemail from Jerry. Yeah. Busted on you with Christopher Walkins.

Just a little bit Jerry, but that's right. Jerry got busted this today, I believe, by his wife because he got caught cheating because they normally listen to T-Cat together. Oh. And he listened, he listened without her. Uh-oh. And she called him out on it. So I like that, Jerry. That is pretty cool, though, when people talk about. like listening together. Yeah, I love that, man. It's really neat. A family that listens to TCAT together,

stays together about the same distance if they did or didn't. Except for the kids, right? Except for the kids. No kids. No kids. Hey, Mike, Eby. This is Roger from North Carolina.

You know, just figured I'd call and let y'all know. Keep on doing what y'all doing, guys. I love. I think TECAT has really jumped up to number one in my favorite true crime podcast,

or probably my favorite podcast, period. I mean, I just love the chemistry between you two. And here at work, I'm just smiling, you know, ear to ear whenever y'all cracked wise with each other because it might be a lot of me and my customers. Yeah, I know. I'm sorry, this is a little long. I don't expect, you know, y'all have played or anything. I just figured I'd have that way.

But take it easy, man, guys, and, you know, just keep your own time ticket. Let it. So, yes, that voicemail was much, much. longer. It's actually about three minutes long. Yeah, because he was going to give us the two cents, but you gave us the 25 cent version. No, we love you, man. We appreciate that, bro. It was an awesome voicemail, but I did have to cut it down. I had to edit for time. There was a really cool story in there in the middle, but it really was.

It just went on, so I had to cut it a little bit. But appreciate the voicemail and the fact that we're his favorite podcast, not even true crime. It means a lot. Yeah, especially in that neck of the woods, man. That's cool. What the hell is that mean? I'm just saying. And that neck of the world. I'm trying to regionally take up, I'm playing like risk, you know, where you, I'm capturing different regions of the U.S. with our podcast.

Through popularity? Yeah. I got you. Eventually, we're taking it all over. Okay. I like, I like the strategy. Yeah. It's working.

Kiyoda. This is Beck's calling from New Zealand. It took me ages to figure out how to call. I had to do all sorts of Googling for dialing codes. I'm just calling to say, how I'm just calling to say, how I'm just calling to say, much, I love the podcast. It's so great. I'm an episode. So Gibbs, I felt so bad. Yeah. But I wanted to play it because she tried forever to figure out how to leave the voicemail. But something happened. I wonder what? I don't know if it was on our end or her phone. No, I could, I could almost barely hear her for go on for a while. Yeah. But I couldn't make out any of the words. I do like her accent. No, the accent was cool. You know, I am with Australian accent. You're horrible. You love them. I love them. But you can't do one for shit.

No, I can't. But I love... But I like the fact that you keep trying. I know. The one thing about Gibby is he is not a quitter. I never give up. Never surrender. Never surrender. Very, uh... You can do it. You can do it. Let it out.

You're very what? Persistent. There you go. He got it, folks. Yay. All right. All right. Well, that's it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

So, you know, you got the Nightstalker. Right. So, you know, I don't want to say these are cool names, but all these different names out there, I mean, if you had to like rank them by name, what would be your top three? Well, I would say the Nightstalker is pretty fear-inducing. Right. It really is. And it fits. Yeah.

Right. Richard Ramirez targeted people at night. He stalked them. It's kind of scary, man. It's scary. You know, Gacy is the killer clown. Yeah. Especially if you have a fear for clowns, man.

And if you see him in that makeup, oh my gosh, dude, that'll give you nightmares. Yeah. What else? It's kind of hard to think of them off top of my head. I think like Zodiac and BTK scary. but not the name. It's the person associated with the name. Right.

But you would, I mean, Zodiac, you're like, uh, yeah, whatever. Right. But night. It's like a watch brand. Yeah. It's just like a watch brand. Yeah. Not scary.

Yeah. Um, what else? It's really hard to think of them off top of my head. What would, uh, not that you would ever hurt anybody, but if he did, what would your name be? Oh, what would my, my, my, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

What would we name? name you. The bald rhino? Sounds like a street drug, man. Hey man, you got any of that bald rhino? Give me that bald rhino, man. Hook me up. The kids are hooked on that bald rhino. Yeah. I don't know. That was the first one that came to mind.

What were Gibby's could be. Did you just talk about yourself in the third person? Yeah. Oh, Gibby is sitting right there. If I was Gibby, I'd be. What would yours be? I was trying to think of something that... I was trying to put it in with one of those words that you mispronounce a lot.

That's a lot of words, though. So you've got a pretty vast variety of words to grab from. Like the cousin killer. Ooh, yeah. You know, or something like that. Yeah. Especially since I just talked about my cousin. Yeah, but you would never hurt her.

No, never. Ever. I don't know. Pretty interesting, isn't it? It's interesting. I might be the interesting killer. There he would. Yeah, that's good. The most interesting, interesting killer in the world.

I could be the grammar, grammar killer. The English professor. Yeah, that's what you would be. A little spin on that, yeah. Professor death. Ooh, yeah. Dictionary. I don't want any word starts with dictionary, dick, nothing like that.

You don't want any of those, dude. I don't want no short version of that. Oh, I don't know, Gives. I was just an interesting question. It was. It was. But you always asked me those on the spot, man. They're hard to think of.

I know. Because I'm sure if I had time to think of it, there were some really, you know, good ones. Over the top names that just aren't coming to my. Yeah. It hit you later, you know. It will. Like Hannibal Lecter.

Oh, man, Hannibal Lecter. It's not real, but if he was real, it would be scary as shit. Did I tell you, I tried. I wanted to buy one of those fun cop pops. You know those little fun cop pops? You like those little dolls. I don't play with dolls, but I, I do see you know what I mean.

Well, I know you do. You got the whole Godfather question now. Oh, yeah. I do have the four Godfathers, the four main guys from the Godfather. But they have a Hannibal Lecter one. Yeah. And he's got the face mask. The face mask.

Yeah. And he's tied to the dolly. And I wanted to buy it, but it was like $40 or $50. Yeah. Let me get it for you. No, I'm not going to spend $40 for a three-inch freaking. We can get like make a little K bar putting in his hand. So I bought it.

He bought Jack from The Shining instead. He's got a little axe in his hand. He does. Look at that, right? Keep it on the studio. You're into these little dolls now. They're kind of cool. A bunch of people at work have them.

Yeah. Are they like 12 years old too? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But they don't have like... He actually got blood on his forehead. Oh yeah.

It's got blood on him and everything. Look at that. But that's the closest that you can get to like, they don't make like a Knights, they don't make a Richard Ramirez one. No. You know. Not yet. Not yet.

I might start my own line. Yeah, I don't know, man. There's people like... True crime all the time. Oh. Serial killer. Figuereens. Huh.

Write that down. Put it on the list? Put that on the list of ideas. Something else to do. All right. We're working on it. All right. Oh, shit, Gibbs.

I forgot to turn the thing off. The thing off. You gonna leave this in? Yeah, I'll leave it in. If you remember, you might take it out. Yeah, people like it. You think so? Yeah.

It's like the end of the credits. Hang out long of it. enough you might get a little Easter egg Easter egg there yep all right I'm hitting the button now good let's go