True Crime All The Time - Robert and Michael Bever

Episode Date: February 19, 2024

In 2015, five members of the Bever family were killed by the two oldest sons in the family. They planned the murders for a year. After killing their family, they wanted to travel around the country and commit mass murders so they would have a Wikipedia page written about them. They thought killing multiple people would make them “like a god.”Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Robert and Michael Bever. The case has often been called The Broken Arrow Murders because the Bevers lived in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma. The details that came from the boys after they were caught, which matched the crime scene the police found, were graphic and shocking. And the reasons behind the murders were shocking as well.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

everyone and welcome to episode 371 of the true crime all the time podcast i'm mike ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime mike gibson give me how are you hey i'm doing good how about yourself i'm doing very well good i had a pretty good week you know it's valentine's day week as we're taping this and last saturday went uh with my wife down to um the college where both my girls attend and we took them out to dinner and that was fun yeah we're not that that far away, but we don't see them as much as we want to, obviously. So anytime we get a little chance to go down there, we take it. I appreciate the little box of a heart-shaped chocolates in that heart shape.

That was for me, right? Yes. Okay. Yep. I wasn't sure. I started eating them, and I thought, man, I don't even know if this was for me. Yeah, no, my wife didn't like them. Oh, is that what I was?

Yeah, so I just boxed them back up. Oh, okay. Put them on the desk for you. Is it going to be like those gummies that you gave me one time? No. It did not end well for me? No, I promise you there will be no bathroom. issues. Okay. All right, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Matt Ford. Hey, Matt. Tamara Swine Tech. Hey, Tamara. The Marks Brothers. Well, thanks Marks Brothers. They're a very funny group. Cynthia Morris. Hey, Cynthia. Tamara Winchester. There's Tamara. Lisa. What's up, Lisa? Sonia. Sonia.

Oh, Bellamini. Adrian Sanbei. Hey, Sambe. Sue T. What's going on, Sue? Tammy Boone. Hey, appreciate that, Boone. Jan. Hey, Adrian. Megan. What's going on, Megan? Or Megan. Okay, megan. There's not really a way for me to tell for sure. Yeah. We had Susan Dew.

What's going on? Susan Mountain Dew. And last but not least, Lisa Boyk. Oh, thanks, Lisa. And then if we go back into the vault. This week, we selected Mitch Lonex. Hey, I appreciate that, Mitch. Yeah.

Mitch, been with us a long time, a lot of emails back and forth. Appreciate it. Yeah. We also had a couple of great PayPal donations from Dana Abrams. Hey, Dana. And Deanna Johnson. Oh, there's Deanna. So thank you to everyone.

Gibbs right now on Unsolved. We have an episode out on Relisha Rudd. Relisha was an eight-year-old who went missing from a homeless shelter in Washington, D.C. in 2014. This is an interesting one, too, when you start diving into the individual that befriended her in some of the events that, that occurred after that. Yeah. Yeah, we don't really want to give anything away, but it is a very interesting case.

All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? I'm ready. We're talking about what's been called the broken arrow murders committed by Robert and Michael Beaver. In 2015,

five members of the Beaver family were killed by the two oldest sons in the family. They planned the murders for a year. After killing their family, they wanted to travel around the country and commit mass murders so that they would have a Wikipedia page written about them. It was also said that they thought killing multiple people would make them like gods. So we really want a Wikipedia page and we want to be treated like

gods. So let's do this. The worst thing imaginable. Now, are you going to get a Wikipedia page? And we want to be treated like gods. So let's do this. The worst thing imaginable. Yeah. Now, are you going to get a Wikipedia? Wikipedia page. Yeah, sadly, probably you are. But isn't there other things you can do to get a Wikipedia page? Yeah, you could do some good in the world. Yeah. Maybe strive for that. Yeah, and be more godly if that's what they want it. And certainly it would be than what they did. 52-year-old David and 44-year-old April Beaver lived in Broken Arrow, Oklahoma with their seven children. 18 year old Robert, 16 year old Michael, 13 year old Crystal, 12 year old Daniel, 7 year old Christopher, 5 year old Victoria, and 23 month old autumn.

That's a big family. Yeah, that is a very full household. And you can see by the ages that, you know, they're spread out. They have an 18 year old. They have a 23 month old. Broken Arrow is a suburb of. Tulsa. It was known as a quiet and peaceful community where violent crime rarely occurs. And how often are we talking about these cities, towns, where, you know, it said that it's a great

place to raise a family. There's a low crime rate. And then all of a sudden, this terrible tragedy occurs. Yeah, sadly, we hear about it too often. The Beaver family mostly kept to themselves. neighbors really didn't know much about them. Neighbor Bill Whitworth told the AP that Michael and Robert were not allowed to play with other children in the community, saying, my son never had an opportunity to play with them because their parents wouldn't allow them to play with the other kids. Or I can see where that could potentially be a problem. Or maybe it would cause no problems whatsoever, but you would have to say it's out of the ordinary. Yeah. You think about a family full of kids who are not allowed to play with any of the other kids in the neighborhood.

No, I do think that neighborhoods today are less active with neighbors. Oh, I would say that's 100% true. I mean, when I think about being, you know, 8, 9, 10 years old, I knew all the kids in the neighborhood. I knew where they lived. There's a good chance. I was meeting up with. some of them on a daily basis. We were going to go do something, play basketball, uh, you know, do something. And, you know, today I live in like a, you know, neighborhood, plat, whatever you want to call it, depending on where you're from. But do you know how many times I see a group of kids walking somewhere? Never. Yeah. Same here. It just doesn't happen. Or even a group of kids riding their bikes, which is what we would have been doing, you know, when we were that age. Bill said that the only time he saw the family was when their car was backing out of the driveway.

Now, there are some neighbors of mine who might say something similar. Hey, we don't see that guy all that much except for when he backs the truck down the driveway and go somewhere. Because I've said it before. I don't go a lot of places. I don't need to go. to a lot of places. You're pretty content. I'm content to be in my basement and do my work and all that. Another neighbor described Robert and Michael to the paper Tulsa world as extremely smart

and very intelligent. Okay. Are those two things not very similar? I would say yes. I thought so too, but okay, maybe there's a subtle difference between those two terms. The Bevers homeschooled their children, but Tulsa World reported that they weren't members of any local homeschool groups. And I don't know if that's that odd at all. I'm not that familiar with homeschooling. We never did it. But I'm assuming if you don't have a lot of contact with your neighbors, you won't let your kids play with the other neighborhood kids, you're probably not joining a homeschool group.

Probably not. attending any type of meeting. Yeah, functions, things like that. I mean, I did homeschool myself, as you know. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I remember there was, and you still have it, a big write-up in the paper about it

because nobody had ever heard of it. Nobody understood it. The first and last time someone never. Homchooled themselves. Yeah. I mean, I was homeschooled to a degree by Sesame Street. Yeah. before I actually, you know, attended school.

But to give yourself lessons, acting as both the teacher and the student, most people found that very odd. I was pretty hard on myself. You were. Yeah. But yet you still managed to grade with a curve, which I never could figure out. Robert's former coworker at Micah Tech, a call center said Robert thought he would have gone to an Ivy League school.

if he had not been homeschooled. So again, we're getting into the lives of, you know, all of these kids, but in particular, Robert and Michael. And I think that's a very telling statement because he's basically to a degree denigrating the homeschooling. Sure he is. Yeah. By saying if I hadn't been homeschooled, I would have been even smarter.

I could have gone to an Ivy League school, this and that. David Beaver worked for HP Enterprise Services. April was president of her neighborhood association. At one point, she owned a business where she sold outdoor signs. She also created the nonprofit called Autumn Hope to help parents of premature children. So the Bevers were known as a somewhat reclusive family, but they were seen to be seemingly normal. No one in their community expected the tragedy that occurred late on July 22nd, 2015. At 11.30 p.m. on July 22nd, 2015, the Broken Arrow Police received a 911 call from Daniel Beaver.

He reported that someone was attacking their family, according to the Tulsa world. And I've got a clip from that 911 call that I want to pull. play for everyone. Okay, who's attacking your family? Who's attacking your family? Yes. Who is it? Do they have?

I'm over. Are you there? Hello? Hi, what's going on there? What's going on there? Hello? Hello? So I know that was, it was pretty tough to, to hear, but that was Daniel. He was 12 years old. At one point, you know, you hear the dispatcher say, your father's attacking your family. And he says,

no, my brother or brothers. I'm not sure if it was singular or plural. And then at the very end, it sounds like somebody else got on the phone, someone a little older. Right. But what I really took away from the nine 911 call was, you know, this 12 year old boy having the presence of mind with everything that was going on. And we're going to detail out everything that went on picking up the phone and calling 911. And yes, he couldn't give a lot of information. But the fact that he gave anything, the fact that he even called to me is amazing. So you have to really give it up to him. It was a tough call to listen to. It was, even though there wasn't a lot of information.

You could just tell something really horrible was going on inside that house. And knowing what happened after the call ended. Yes, which we're getting ready to detail out. Officers who arrived at the home saw blood on the sidewalk and the front steps, they heard a faint voice from inside the house saying, help me. They found Crystal at the front of the house, severely injured by multiple stab wounds. She identified her older brothers as the assailants. Sources from 2015 didn't use Crystal's name because she was a minor, but obviously later sources do use her name.

Crystal had been cut on the neck, strangled, and stabbed in the abdomen and arms. Their little sister. Hard to imagine. Hard to picture, just a tough scene in general. And then over the next 30 to 40 minutes, the police found the bodies of five members of the Beaver family. David, April, Daniel, Christopher, and Victoria. Christopher and Victoria were found in a first floor bathroom.

David and Daniel were found upstairs. April was found near a couch in the living room. Autumn, the youngest child, was unhundred. was unharmed upstairs. The family members Gibbs were stabbed over 100 times combined. Wow. According to oxygen, one of the brothers said it wasn't like it was on the TV. You cut them once and they die.

And we've actually heard that in a number of cases that we've done. Whether it's, you know, stabbing someone or trying to strangle someone, it's not, like it is on TV and in the movies. You know, you don't put your hands around someone's neck and 10 seconds later they're gone. No, it's going to take quite a while. It's going to take a lot of strength and it's going to take minutes and minutes for that to happen. According to autopsy reports, David was stabbed 28 times, including 17 times in the torso twice in the face and neck and nine times in the arm and hand. He also suffered blunt force injuries. April was stabbed at least 48 times, including 18 times in the head and neck, 13 times in the torso, and 17 times in the arms and hands.

She sustained blunt force trauma to the head and torso. Daniel was stabbed nine times in the back, shoulder and chest. Christopher was stabbed six times in the back chest, shoulder, shoulder, and lower leg. Victoria was stabbed 18 times in the neck, chest, back, and upper arm. So I said over 100 stab wounds to, you know, these members of the family. The one thing that really stood out was that April was stabbed at least 48 times, so almost half. So compared to everyone else, April, the mother, was stabbed way more than anyone else. Is that because she was more of a fighter, didn't want to let go, or is that because they had so much rage against her? Yeah. I mean, I think it's something we'll have to examine. You could look at it a number of ways.

You know, if I had to put money on it, I would say that maybe they had maybe more anger towards her. But I think the other thing that we have to do is go back and, you know, kind of reexamine this 911 call from Daniel. We don't know exactly at what point it was made. We do know he was stabbed nine times. So is it even more amazing that he was able to make that call? Michael and Robert escaped out the back of the house. A police tracking dog found them just before 12, 20 a.m. On July 23rd, in a wooded area behind the house,

they were covered in mud and blood and their clothes. were torn. Okay, first of all, police tracking dogs. Love them. It's amazing, right? We've talked about it before what they can do. And it seems to me as though Michael and Robert either weren't trying very hard to get away or didn't realize that, you know, tracking dogs and different other things would be used to track them down because they're just hiding out in the woods behind their house. Yeah, I mean, really, if you think about it, it was less than an hour from the time that 911 call was made, but they still had 50 minutes from that time that that call was made that they could have went a little bit further away from the home. Yeah, they weren't going to make it

three states away, right, before the police got there, but could they get a head start? Could they have gotten, you know, down the road a piece? Sure. They were interrogated separately about the events of that night and Crystal was interviewed in the hospital. The following account comes from Crystal Beaver as reported by the Tulsa World. Around 11.30 p.m. Crystal came to her brother's bedroom to tell them that their mother wanted them to wash the dishes. She saw they were trying on body armor, which she said she thought was weird, but she had seen them wear it before. One of the brothers asked, should we do it now. Crystal turned back to see what they wanted and said, well, I'm here now. What do you want?

Michael motioned for her to look at something on their computer. Robert came up behind her and cut her throat with a knife. Crystal said, she didn't realize what was happening at first. She fell back and Robert continued cutting and stabbing her. She escaped and ran to her room, but then decided to run to the front door. She could hear her mom. She could hear her mom. She could hear her mom. And she was going to do. You mother screaming. How do you even do something like that to another human, right? But let alone your younger sister. Yeah, we're never able to figure out how people can kill, but doesn't it seem as though it would be even tougher to kill not just one person, but, you know, all these members of your family you've spent your whole life with. You've shared so many memories with these people.

To me, it's almost even more baffling about how someone could do this. Crystal said she realized one of her organs was hanging out from her stomach. She testified, I kind of just held it in my hand. There's something you don't hear every day. Gibbs, this girl was 13 years old at the time. Yeah. And she is running to the front door to try to save her life, holding one of her organs in her hand as she does it.

And the fact that, you know, she survived and was able to give this information to the police, to papers later on is nothing short of miraculous. She managed to get outside, but collapsed in the front yard and went in and out of consciousness. Someone dragged her back inside, which left the trail of blood found outside the house. Crystal could hear Daniel screaming. And that was when she realized her brother's, were trying to kill the whole family. The following information comes from an article in the case by oxygen.

It was said that April came upstairs because she heard the commotion. Robert attacked his mother, stabbing her at least 48 times. The brothers went through the house room by room and continued attacking their family. Michael later said Robert stabbed their father with the biggest knife they have. Robert tried to kill Crystal by suffocating her. And he planned to decapitate their youngest sister, Autumn, but he was prevented from doing so by the arrival of the police. So that was the next thing.

According to investigation discovery, detectives said they forgot about Autumn and she slept through the murder. So there's maybe a little bit of a discrepancy there. I think when you first hear that, you know, Autumn survived, maybe the thought is, well, you know, these two kids are monsters, but they couldn't bring themselves to kill a 23 month old their baby sister. Yeah. But then you hear Robert was planning on decapitating her. So that kind of throws the whole, well, they just felt bad about, you know, killing her out the window. Oh, yeah. And, and really it sounds like it just

came down to the fact that the police showed up and they just didn't have time. So if anything, you could say Daniel saved Autumn. Well, and I think you could say Crystal as well, right? Those are the two people who survived this family massacre. So if Daniel doesn't make that 911 call, that means police don't show up when they do. And, you know, to your point, Autumn probably dies. And Crystal probably dies as well. So I think you do have to look at Daniel as a really big hero.

In this case, sadly, he lost his life. Michael tricked Christopher and Victoria into opening the bathroom door. They were hiding. And he told them he needed help because Robert was trying to stab him. Once the door was open, Christopher was stabbed six times and Victoria was stabbed 18 times. times. And how can you blame them? This is your brother on the other side of the bathroom door saying, hey, you got to help me. Yeah. Our other brother is trying to kill everybody. But then the nightmare hits them when they realize Michael's just as bad. Daniel hid in a home office and called 911 for help.

Michael convinced him to open the door by telling him Robert was coming after him. According to prosecutors, Michael then stepped aside and told Robert, he's all yours. And this is a case that unfortunately, you can really visualize and it's rough. You know, given the ages of these kids, the fact that, you know, they're scared to death, they're hiding, and then to find out that they were tricked by their brothers into, you know, opening doors just for those same brothers to kill them. Now, I know you have an older brother and you have a younger brother. So you've been on both sides of the fence. Yeah. The protector and having the older brother who I'm sure beat the snide out of you sometimes, but was your protector? Absolutely. But what these

boys did is disgusting. It really is. I mean, this is an absolutely brutal case on July 31st. Robert and Michael were each charged with five counts of first-degree murder and one count of assault and battery with intent to kill. They both pleaded not guilty to all charges at their arraignment. And again, this is somewhat of a different case, right? It's not like it took police a long time to figure out what happened. It didn't take them long to catch the boys. The evidence would have been pretty overwhelming, right? Get it. they were covered in blood. Yeah, I think for prosecutors, what it comes down to is who did what.

Yes. We know you both were involved. We just don't know who did what at this point. And that sometimes can be problematic, where you have two different defendants. On October 1st, Michael's defense attorney Rob Nye filed a motion seeking to have him prosecuted as a juvenile. Oklahoma state law requires juveniles aged 15 to 6. 17, who are charged with first degree murder to be tried as adults. And we know the law varies, you know, state by state.

That comes up in a lot of the cases that we do. This was something that I found pretty fascinating. A lot of times it's up to the discretion of the courts, a judge. But here it's saying Oklahoma state law, if you're between 15 and 17 and charged with first degree murder, you must be tried as an adult. Okay. On October 12, 2015, a judge ruled that Michael would be tried as an adult. On January 21st, 2016, the Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals rejected Michael's appeal,

challenging the state law, mandating that he be prosecuted as an adult. At the preliminary hearing on February 23, 2016, the detective, testified that the brothers planned to kill more people after murdering their family because they wanted to be famous. Michael and Robert spent at least a year planning the murders. They committed the attacks with knives. They stockpiled at home. The police found multiple weapons in the house, including a hatchet, knives, darts, and a surgical knife blade. Core documents revealed that Robert Beaver ordered packages of ammo, which were delivered a day after the murders. Imagine what would have happened if he would have had those.

It shows additional planning, right? They've already said, at least the prosecution has said, that they spent at least a year planning the murders. So now you have it come out that ammo was delivered a day after the murders. Yeah. And essentially it was said that, you know, after killing their family, they plan to steal their parents' vehicle and commit mass shootings in other states. Yeah, well, they would have had that ammo. They didn't get caught that night. They could have rolled into who knows where and shot people up. When you say could, I say would.

Oh, yeah. I think they would have until they would have been killed by police. Killed or caught. Yeah. Look, if you have no problem murdering your little brother and sister. and your mom, your dad, you're not going to have any care in the world about killing strangers. No, I would say that's a valid statement, especially if you have it in your mind that you're trying to be famous.

Really infamous is probably a better word for it. Yeah. Well, then creating as much carnage as you can would kind of go towards that goal, I guess, of being, infamous. You know, kind of think about the movie natural born killers, sure, which is a very strange movie. I don't know if you've seen it recently. I watched it a couple weeks ago and hadn't seen it in a long time. And I know it got some real strange press when it came out, but you kind of see what he's going for, right? Oliver Stone and the media glorifying killers. And basically the killers being more and more outlandish to get the attention.

Right. And it almost seems like that's what they were thinking about doing. Detective Chase Cothran testified that Crystal told him, Robert believed there were too many people in the world and said her brother stockpiled armor and knives. Crystal told April about this, but she said something to the effect of, well, that's just what boys do. But stockpile knives and other things. And armor and ammo and I mean, I've always had pocket knives. You know, it was a thing. I always had a pocket knife growing up. My grandpa would give me a pocket knife or whatever it was. But I didn't, you know, have a big thing that folded out with,

you know, 20 different knives in it, like Rambo or, or something. Well, you don't have that. I say I didn't. have that. I'm not talking about what I have now. Okay. Just one of the like, I'm talking about as a kid. Yeah. And then you think about body armor. Right. Okay, what are we going here for? You got some hunting knives. Do you do some hunting? You've got some axes. Are you in an axe throwing league? Give me some reasons for, you know, needing all this stuff. And obviously it's hard to blame April because she's a victim in this whole thing. thing, but it does seem as though this was kind of viewed as no big deal. And I'm sure in her mind, it probably wasn't a big deal because how could she have ever thought that her kids were going to try to murder the entire family?

I don't think you would ever think that, right? Now, could you have a talk with your kids and say, what's up with the body armor? What's up with all these knives? Yeah, what's going to have all these hatchets sitting over here? You could. You could do that. See where it goes. According to the Tulsa world, Robert worked at the call center long enough to save money to buy equipment to commit the murders and he had $1,300 left over. Detective Cothran testified that April said the weapons collection was for attention. David Bever complained that they were wasting money. And I get that. You know, you're working and living. at home. You're not saving money. You're spending almost all the money that you're making on tactical

gear and weapons. Yeah, you're just wasting your money, son. On cross-examination, Cothran testified that Crystal told him David Beaver would throw the children and verbally abuse them. She heard her parents discussed being too rough with Robert and Michael when they were younger. So did that make? Robert and Michael grow up despising their parents? Well, it's, it's not going to be a good thing. Verbal abuse is never good. Obviously,

it sounds like maybe there was physical abuse as well. You know, when you say throwing the children, throwing, that doesn't sound good. It doesn't. From a physical perspective, Detective Eric Vince,

testified as quoted by investigation discovery. Robert expressed wanting to have some sort of fame or notoriety for being a serial killer. He said that if he killed more than one person, it made him like a god. Right. He seems to have a very strange notion of God or what a God is. I think he's living in this really strange bubble. Well, we've already heard a number of things, right?

There was abuse of these two kids, especially when they were younger. that came from Crystal. But we've also heard they wanted to be famous. They wanted to be serial killers. They wanted to be like a god. And, you know, back to your question of what this abuse might have done,

you know, could it have caused them to despise their mom and dad? Absolutely. But then how do you explain your younger sibling? They weren't throwing you around. No. So, That's pretty tough.

Maybe they thought they were protecting their siblings from their parents. Well, it wouldn't be the first time, you know, that we've heard that. But so far, we haven't heard that argument in this case. Robert told Detective Bentz that killing was a hobby and that he didn't believe it was bad. Okay, that's strange to say. Yeah, we're getting pretty far away from any type of even, illogical, benevolent argument. I mean, we talked about earlier how it was said that Robert was highly intelligent, very smart.

Which I argue are pretty much the same thing, but. Right. And now you have to ask yourself, is he? If this is his belief? But see, I don't think those two things equate necessarily. A lot of killers are very intelligent. It doesn't mean that, you know, what they say or what they do makes sense. Yeah, but I mean, he has no sense of right or wrong at this point.

Right. But again, I don't know that that equates with intelligence. Seems like it should. It should, but I also understand where you're coming from. I mean, we haven't gotten into the area of mental illness yet, but I believe you can be very, very intelligent, but have some type of mental illness that prevents you from fully understanding right from wrong. I guess that's, that's where I'm getting. It was also said that he showed no remorse and laughed several times during his interview. He was calm, relaxed, but then at other times, excited. And this is something

that people have brought up in emails. What does it mean when killers laugh? And I have heard from various people that this kind of inappropriate laughter can be a sign of certain types of mental illness. Again, not a doctor, just saying what people have said. Yeah, no, I can see that. Robert said that after he cut Crystal's throat, he chased April down the hall and stabbed her, Crystal made it outside. So he followed her and strangled her until he thought she was dead. Robert also said he was going to decapitate his baby sister, but he didn't have time to do so before the police arrived.

So that's the second time that we've heard that. Robert claimed his parents beat him when he was 13 years old and he wished they were dead. He said his father once dragged him up the stairs and his mother slapped him because he left a light on. He believed his parents hated their children and had multiple kids for tax benefits. Well, I mean, kids are a tax benefit. At least they were for me when I had mine. But it's not why I had kids. But we're getting more into the abuse, you know, wishing that his parents were dead. But then you have to square that with wanting a Wikipedia page, wanting to be seen as a god.

The brothers wanted to make videos of their deceased family members' bodies, then dismember them, and store them in the attic. Now we're learning even more, right? Here's another part of the plan that they didn't get the chance to do because the police showed up. Per Tulsa World, Detective Benz testified, Robert wanted to make a video

with him in the living room with the bodies visible, which would be seen by attorneys and law enforcement. He also wanted to make a second video that he said was less horrific, so it would go on public, like YouTube. He called it a G-rated video. All right, so we could have a G-rated one and a non-G-rated one.

What video with family members who are dead is going to be G-rated? None. Detective Rihanna Russell testified that the brothers discussed the plans to murder their family every night and intended to go on a mass killing spree. She added, they wanted a Wikipedia page. They wanted media coverage. Detective said the brothers wanted to kill 500 people. Their goal was to quote unquote outdo other mass killers.

So just imagine this, you and your brother sitting around every night while you were still living at home discussing nothing but killing your entire family. and then going on this mass killing spree that, let's say, would put you in the pantheon of killers. Yeah. Can't imagine doing that. No, because most brothers are sitting around talking about Pokemon or Xbox or sports, girls, not how do we become the most infamous killers of all time. And it really takes away from feeling bad.

for them on what happened to them during their childhood if you believe that it makes it tougher doesn't it does because i think you could make an argument that they were verbally and physically abused as children because even crystal testified to that right and so even though what they did was horrific you could in some way have some sympathy for what they went through but then when they start talking about all this other stuff, it's almost like that wasn't the catalysts as much as the fame. I don't know. I don't know. I'm torn on that.

They had very strange goals. According to the Tulsa world, they plan to kill five people at every highly populated location they selected, such as restaurants or malls. Based on this testimony, the brothers were ordered. to stand trial. On June 17th, 2016, Robert Beaver attempted to end his life. Inside his jail cell, the incident didn't become public knowledge until July 6th. The next day, the judge granted the continuance for the arraignment to allow the state more time to determine whether to seek the death penalty for Robert Beaver. Michael was ineligible for capital punishment because of his age. On September,

7, 2016, Robert Beaver took a plea deal that spared him from the death penalty. He received five life sentences without parole for each murder count and a consecutive life term for assault and battery with a deadly weapon. Well, it's good that he's never going to get out of prison. Yeah, based on what we've talked about, based on what we know, I would agree with that. Now, I think what happened, though, as a result of the plea deal is that you don't have the type of information about his mental health that would normally come out in this type of trial. In October, Michael's defense attorneys filed court documents indicating they might present an insanity defense at trial. That same month, the state filed a motion that Michael refused to fully participate in a case.

his mental health evaluation because he refused to communicate about facts surrounding the crimes. On March 18th, 2017, the empty beaver home was destroyed by a fire. The following month, the city reached its fundraising goal to purchase the home and turn the property into a memorial garden. And this is always a question that, you know, a community has to deal with. What are you going to do with a house like this where, you know, essentially almost an entire family was, was murdered, was massacred. Number one, who's going to buy that house? And then obviously it was destroyed by a fire later on.

But you don't even want that house standing. No, you don't. And so they were able to raise money, level it, turned into a memorial garden. Two years after the murders, Michael Beaver had still not gone to trial. In late March 2018, his defense filed documents indicating they would withdraw the insanity defense, his attorney Corbyn Brewster, wrote in a series of documents that the brothers faced psychological abuse and isolation for an extended time. Jury selection from Michael Beaver's trial started on April 16, 2018.

D.A. Steve Coonsweiler told the court that Robert was expecting. to testify that he and Michael were obsessed with the idea of being serial killers and once asked Crystal to help them with their plans to commit mass homicide. The DA notified the judge that Crystal would testify that she did not reveal this to authorities in previous interviews. The defense asked to limit the introduction of the new testimony because they didn't have enough time for discovery. So it sounds like the boys are saying Crystal at one point was. Was it on it or part of the conversation early on? At the very least, part of the conversation.

That's what they're saying. Opening statements began on April 20th. The prosecution argued that the brothers were equally to blame for the murders, and Michael helped Robert plan them for at least a year. He was the one who tricked his siblings into unlocking the door before he stabbed them. The prosecution suggested, Michael was the one who dragged Crystal back inside the house after she escaped. Crystal would testify that she couldn't remember who dragged her.

She said she never actually saw Michael attack anyone, but she said she heard her mother screaming while Robert attacked her, which implied that Michael attacked their mother. Yeah, I mean, if Robert's attacking Crystal that only leaves Michael. defense attorney Corbyn Brewster told the jury, as reported by Tulsa World, we're going to ask you to make a decision based on what Robert did and on what Michael did and didn't do. And I think this goes back, you know, to your previous point. Gibbs, it's, you know, how do you separate out what Michael did versus what Robert did? There is an age discrepancy. or, you know, did they both equally do about the same type of heinous stuff and then you just have to factor in the eight?

Brewster said, April and David Beaver were abusive and the children rarely went outside. Michael fell under the spell of his older brother who was obsessed with serial killers and horror movies. Robert was Michael's whole world. Although Robert talked about murder and had a large collection. of knives, Michael didn't think he would go through with it. Maybe he really felt that way. Maybe he just thought, you know, we're just talking all this talk and it's just cool to hang out with my older brother and I'm going along with it because, you know,

just talking. Right. And maybe he did idolize him. But at a certain point, you get far enough along in the plan where you're actually talking about when you're going to do it. And then there's the actual time where you are doing it. So you can say, well, I didn't think he was going to go through with it. But then you went along with him and you participate.

And you think about how they attacked started based on some of the information that we talked about earlier. You want to do this now? Should we do it now? And then they have their sister go to the computer. You know, Robert says, go look at that on the computer screen. And then they slice her neck. Yeah, so I think for me it's a little tough to think, okay, he was just, you know, kind of wrapped up in this world with his brother, but he never actually thought he would go through with it. And then all of a sudden he was like, yeah, okay, we're doing it. Yeah. Kind of hard to reconcile. It is. And, you know, we know before then they were trying on body armor and. Yeah. Yeah. And, and we played the 911 call. It was hard to hear. You did hear Daniel whisper. My brother's attack. And, my family and then, you know, someone took the phone away and said hello before the line

wind dead. 9-1-1 operator Lisa Smith testified that she heard the caller say Michael and please don't murder me. Now, we didn't hear that on the tape, but that's pretty incriminating. Yeah, I don't know how you overcome that. Detention officer Seth Garner testified about morbid and violent drawings found in Michael's cell. He was concerned. Michael had homicidal or suicidal intentions and gave the notebook to a psychiatrist. Defense attorney Brewster told the court, Michael was in a dark place and was on and off suicide watch. And I get that. This is after the murders. This is after you've been caught. This is after you know, you're kind of sobering up to the fact that you're facing a very severe punishment.

Who wouldn't be in a dark place? And then you're reliving those things you just did. What I don't know is, you know, what this has to do specifically with, you know, kind of where his mental health was prior to the murders. A state bureau of investigation agent testified that he found a journal inside a metal case under a bed in Michael and Robert's room. Inside was a chronology of the events leading up to the

murders. Crime scene investigator Karen Weichael testified that Michael made a spontaneous statement while she was swabbing his skin after he was arrested. He denied killing anyone and said he tried to stop Robert. She avoided asking follow-up questions because at that point he had not been read his rights. The jury heard that a bloody handprint on the inside of the front door was made by Michael. This print was important to the prosecution's argument that it was Michael who dragged Crystal back inside and closed the door. Michael's footprints were found on a damaged area of a bathroom door, behind which were the bodies of Christopher and Victoria. Michael's bloody palm print was found in the interior doorframe of his. bedroom. And then DNA analyst Grace Helms testified that Michael was the major contributor for the mixed

blood sample on the handle of a camouflage knife. Robert and April's DNA could not be excluded from the handle as well as David's. Helms couldn't exclude any of the family as the source of one of four blood samples obtained from Robert's genes. Only Daniel and Crystal were ruled out from swathes. of Robert's face. So I think what we're, we're hearing here is kind of flying in the face of, you know, what he told this technician early on. I didn't kill anyone. I tried to stop Robert. Right. Well, the blood evidence is kind of maybe telling a different story. Not agreeing with what you're saying. Corbyn Brewster told reporters outside court per Tulsa world. You would expect someone involved in what they accused.

Michael of being involved in to have everyone's blood and DNA on him. And he did not. All right. I get what his attorney is, is trying to do. But if you didn't kill or have a hand in killing each member of your family, would it be expected that you would have their blood on you, their DNA on you? No, I don't think so. I don't know that it would be. He noted that during questioning, Helms testified it was possible. Michael's DNA was transferred to the knives by Robert. And that's one of those questions, you know, is it possible? And it's really hard, I think, for forensics experts in some of those circumstances to say, no, it's not possible because so much is possible. I'm going to use a less macabre analogy. You and I are playing top gun volleyball shirtless. We're winning. Okay.

the music's playing we win the game we high five and then i reach over and i i touch a knife that you later use to do something you shouldn't do my kbar maybe okay my dna's on there mixed with yours does that mean i killed somebody no not sure why there's a top gun scenario there that's just what popped into my head i'm trying to figure out why me and you were both topless in this well because the montage is just playing. That's just, you know, how I pictured it. But we definitely were winning and then we won. Okay. Because we do the big high five like they do in the movie. And that is what causes the DNA transference. I got to go back to this top of us. No shirts. Was this when we had our, our younger bodies? Oh, we were younger. We were in great shape. This is not today. Okay. This is not

today. Because then I'm picturing that scene when, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, Um, what's his name? Ben Affleck. No, the funny guy. Stiller. Yeah, Ben Stiller's playing basketball on the court and that guy takes his shirt on. Oh, and rubs up against him. Yeah. No, it's not that. But you could see, right? I'm trying to come up with a scenario that's not so gruesome. Yeah, no, I get it. Of how, you know, a transference could happen. Then the jury watched Michael's video interview with detective Eric Benz. Michael told, Detective Bence that when Crystal came to their room, basically, we did what we plan to do. He said he distracted Crystal by showing her something on the computer. Robert came up behind her and cut her through.

She fell down and started screaming. He said, I kind of freaked out because I wasn't planning this. He said they planned to kill their family on the night of July 22nd because Robert wanted to pick up three guns at a local gun shop the next day. Robert was expecting a delivery of more than 2,000 rounds of ammo and they didn't want their parents to know. They killed their family with knives because they thought guns would be too loud. So they gave some thought about all this.

Well, again, the prosecution said they planned it for at least a year. But I want to go back to Michael because in this video interview, him saying basically we did what we planned to do. To me, that's not, well, I didn't think we were going to murder anyone. And he's even saying, we planned to kill our family on, on the night of the 22nd. So it kind of flies in the face of that argument to my way of thinking. Michael said they started planning at least as early as June 30th because that was when Robert realized he could buy weapons and ammo online. And I didn't understand this. completely. I know you can buy ammo online. You know, if you're an adult, I don't know how you buy a weapon online. I mean, you can purchase one, but my understanding was that it had to go to dealer. It had to be shipped to a dealer with a federal firearms license. You then had to go to the dealer, the store, fill out all the paper, get your background check and all that, and then you could get the gun.

but delivering guns to your front door. I mean, they used to do that years and years ago. I mean, you remember the rifle that Lee Harvey Oswald used to, to shoot Kennedy. It was said he, you know, he got a mail order. It was like a surplus army gun that just show, you know, it was sent right to his front door.

But they haven't done that for a long time. Yeah, I thought it was kind of strange to hear that too. I mean, maybe it just meant he was buying it online and would go pick, it up at the store. I don't know. Before the murders, Robert told Michael he hated everyone and thought society was pointless. Michael said he didn't take him seriously and didn't feel the same, but he admitted to Detective Benz that he was fascinated by mass shootings. Michael admitted to stabbing his mother and her blood was found on his t-shirt. Corbin Brewster pointed out that Michael said multiple times. He didn't want to stab his family, but thought he had to because Robert would kill him.

Okay. So now this is a new wrinkle, right? We've gone from, you know, I idolized my big brother. Yeah, we talked about all this stuff, but I never really thought it would happen to I was a part of it. You know, we did it. But now it's I had to go along with it because Robert would kill me if I didn't. But it's just part of his defense, right? Let's try to save this kid from being locked up forever. And let's see if we can blame the brother or blame a number of reasons. Well, and that's why the work of the jury is so hard. You're going to hear a bunch of different things.

And you have to figure out what's true, what's not true, what makes the most sense. One of the main witnesses at trial was Robert Beaver. The following quotes from his testimony come from Tulsa World. He testified, I'm not denying that we acted together, but we acted in our own ways. He said he had been diagnosed with major depression with psychotic tendencies. He described his childhood as lonely and violent, claiming that the children went months without leaving the house except to buy groceries. His parents warned them to stay away from the windows so they would. wouldn't be seen. So not only can you not go out inside and play with other children,

you can't even look out the windows. Yeah, we don't want people seeing you. You're just our tax write-offs. He said, his parents talked often about the rapture and the biblical apocalypse. They warned the kids that the world was full of people who wanted to hurt them. What sounds like the house was full of people who wanted to hurt them. Well, it definitely sounded like the dad had no problem hurting the boys, tossing them around when they were younger. Robert testified that David punched and kicked the boys and would say, I can kill you anytime I want to. That's a much more serious, much less funny version of the, I brought you in this world.

I can take you out. Yeah. This is a little bit more harsh. Robert said he began to stockpile armor because of the threats. and then this made him feel empowered. He testified about attacking his sister, Crystal. I put my hand over her mouth and I held the blade to her throat. I felt the blood start running down my hand.

I was like, oh shit. From the moment she didn't drop dead from being stabbed in the throat, it was just chaos. But it almost sounds like he enjoyed filling that blood running down his hand. Yeah, there's a sense of that. But then you also get the kind of it didn't happen the way that he thought it would based on what he'd seen on television and in movies. You know, you don't just stick someone with a knife and they instantly fall dead. It's just not how it happened most of the time. Most of the time.

He said what happened next was, quote, flipping the kill switch. He grabbed the knife and stabbed April when she entered the room. He stabbed Christopher as he ran towards the noise. Crystal escaped, which triggered their security alarm. Michael turned it off. Robert chased Crystal and tried to bring her inside. Then choked her until she stopped moving. He testified that Michael was the one who dragged her.

During the attacks, David charged at Robert. He stabbed his father in the chest multiple times. David asked him, why are you doing this? And Robert said, because I must. Because I must. It's like a scene out of a very scary psycho thriller drama movie. Yeah. Now, I get it.

David hasn't been painted as a great guy. Nope. At least to the boys. And, you know, you could say, well, that's them saying that. but Crystal also corroborated some of that. And she doesn't have a reason to lie, but she's also not going to be a big fan of Robert and Michaels right now. No.

So I'm sure it wasn't easy for her, but you would think that that was a very truthful statement on her part, as hard as it must have been. But you think about this dad, you know, hearing this commotion, maybe coming out, starting to get a sense of what's going on and thinking I have to protect my family. All of a sudden, your son stabs you in the chest and you're just like,

why are you doing this? Yeah, I mean, we've all been in that spot where we've come out of a room going, what the hell's going on out here? But normally it's because they, kids are doing something. They shouldn't be doing,

but not like this. No, right. They're, you know, as a young child drawing on the wall with crayon or, or something like that. but nobody's stabbing anyone, hopefully.

Robert testified that it was Michael's idea to trick Christopher and Victoria into opening the bathroom door. Michael kicked the door open. Robert said he hesitated before stabbing them, but felt he had to finish his mission. Robert testified that before he stabbed Daniel, his brother pleaded, don't kill me. I love you. Oh, man. That is heartbreaking.

remember Daniels this 13 year old who was able to call 911. Yeah. But I'll tell you what I'm really getting from Robert is that, hey, yeah, I did all the stuff I said I did, but it wasn't just me. Right. Michael, you know, he did his fair share. He's in this with me. But it seems like Robert was really locked in to this mission. I don't really have any doubt that Robert was the catalyst, you know, is the older brother.

I think, you know, he most likely roped Michael in, but at a certain point, Michael went with it. And I think he was far more culpable than he wanted to, you know, admit. In closing, the prosecution presented an excerpt from Michael's jail notebook. He wrote, once upon a time, there were two brothers named Michael and Robert. They hate their family, so they killed them. The end. It's not a long story. It's not.

But very succinct, very to the point. And again, you know, I think this is just something else that kind of flies in the face of some of the things that Michael tried to say, right? If I didn't go along with it, Robert was going to kill me. Was that true? Was that not true? I don't know. Most of the evidence that seemed to come out really kind of painted him as more of a

willing participant. At least that's what I got. defense attorney Corbyn Brewster emphasized that Michael only had his own blood and April's blood on his clothing. He told the jury that Michael was put into a container with Robert's descent into mental illness. And I'm not sure that wasn't true. Like we said, Robert didn't go to trial. He took a plea deal. So, you know, all of the facts about his mental illness.

or whatever he might have had didn't come out. Some of it, you know, we did talk about. Right. According to him, he was diagnosed. It would have been nice to have all those details. Yeah, that's my thought exactly. Now, how that would have or did relate to Michael's involvement, that's a little trickier.

On May 9th, 2018, Michael Beaver was convicted of five counts of first degree murder and assault and battery with a deadly weapon. On May 10th, the jury recommended a 28-year prison sentence for Michael for the assault and battery conviction. The next day, the jury recommended life with the possibility of parole for the murders. So Robert got life with no parole. Michael gets life with the possibility of parole. And that does make sense.

based on their ages. Robert was an adult. Michael was a juvenile who was tried as an adult. On July 24th, 2018, Michael Beaver spoke at his sentencing hearing. Is quoted by Tulsa World, he said, every minute and every second.

I've been thinking about what I could have done different and what kind of life I could have had with my family. And I don't know how you couldn't think about that every minute and every second. Yeah. Why did I do this? If I hadn't done it, number one, I wouldn't be locked up. I could still see my family.

What would I be doing now? You know, thinking about going to college, I'd be at college or whatever it is. Those thoughts would just be flooding through your mind all the time. Yeah. How you like being in Wikipedia now? Is this what you had envisioned? No, I'm sure it's not exactly how they planned it. We know it's not how they planned it.

They just thought they would have time to get away, but that 911 call, I keep going back to that. Not only did it save lives of a couple of the family members, it also probably saved countless other people's lives because this multi-state mass shooting spree never got underway. the judge delayed the final decision until August 9th. On that day, Michael received five life sentences with the possibility of parole plus 28 years. But it was decided that the sentences would be consecutive, which means Michael will most likely die in prison unless he files a successful appeal. You know, I was kind of thinking about the 28 years.

years. Right. And whether or not that was going to be tacked on to the life with the possibility of parole. But when you make the life sentences consecutive, then nothing else matters. No. That's going to be a pretty tough hurdle. You're not going anywhere. Get comfy. Michael's appeal was denied on June 25th, 2020. On July 15th, 2019, Robert Beaver attempted to attempt to attack prison staff with a weapon. In 2020, he received three more life sentences. Well, what's three more? I know. And that's the thing I always kind of hearken back to when you know you're never going to get out, no matter what you do. Where's the incentive to, you know, be on your best behavior? I don't think it's there. And I think that has to be a concern for prison

officials when you have individuals in there that are lifers that are never going to leave. Yeah. Both brothers are still incarcerated in Oklahoma. I think it's pretty safe to say that Robert Beaver will most likely die in prison. But it is possible that Michael could be granted parole one day. You know, we've seen a lot of changes made to the sentencing of youthful offenders over the years, you never know what's going to happen there. Broken Arrow has received more media attention for two more tragedies. On October 27, 2022, six children and two adults were found dead in their burning home in Broken Arrow in what was believed to be a murder suicide. And then just a few days ago on February 11th, two siblings, a 17 year old boy and a 14 year old girl.

were found dead inside their home. The police are investigating this case as a murder suicide. Not making you feel real comfy about the broken arrow neighborhood. No, I mean, there's, there's a lot of things going on. Now, it's a fairly good-sized city. It's got a population of like 115,000 people.

But still, that's a lot of stuff to, you know, to go down in kind of in a similar vein in that period of time. But as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, I mean, what can you say? I mean, this was just an absolute tragedy. And I get it. There's a lot of evidence suggesting that, you know, these two boys especially were abused,

physically, emotionally, verbally, but to make the decision to kill everyone in your family. Because I go back to your brother's insane. sisters weren't involved in that. Sure as hell, your 23 month old sister wasn't involved in that. She never could have done anything to you. So, you know, how does that factor in? I still think there's a mental health aspect that we don't have the full details on. Oh, absolutely. As it relates to, to Robert. And then him kind of being the catalyst starting it off. But Michael being what seems to be a pretty willing participant. Now,

it could have started out as just talk, my older brother, I just want to hang out with them. But at some point it got into, hey, we're going to do this. Are you in? And he must have said yes,

because he was very involved. Just so tragic. And I can't get that 9-1-1 call out of my head. No. And, you know, what's interesting is that there wasn't even that much said. No. It's you putting together the pieces of what's happening behind the scenes based on, you know, some of the details that we mentioned and then the silence or the background

noise. Because Daniel only says a few words. Right. Before his brother comes in and takes the phone and you hear the brother say something. Hello. I think he's. says hello. We don't know which one it was, but you're right. For a 911 call where there's not a lot said, it's pretty haunting. But that's it for our episode on Robert and Michael Beaver, the broken arrow murders. We've got some voicemails Gibbs. You want to check those out? Let's hear them. Tennessee and Appalachia episode, which is a great story. But you've all kind of like son, myself and my husband all play the mandolin and they do have a purpose and they play a big role in bluegrass music. So if you are interested in seeing on like what they're good for, pull up

some good bluegrass music and they also play a big part in a lot of Irish music as well. But I still love your podcast. I still love you both. And I hope you all have a great day. and stay safe and keep your own time to get. Well, I said it, right? I'm going to get emails, voicemails about the mandolin. You and I talked about it on Patreon this week. What I didn't mention is that my stepfather actually plays the mandolin.

Yeah. So I have no issues with the mandolin. Just like I really have no issues with Ford Fiestas, Festivas, carnies, or. Who else have we talked about? It's just, it's something to talk about, and it's not nearly as funny if I say that my stepfather plays the mandolin. What is funny is Carney driving in a Ford Fiesta while playing. Playing the mandolin.

So, you know, shoot us a video of the family playing the mandolin. Absolutely. Like to see it. Yeah, skill. Hey, Fergie. I'm calling to see. I just got an email saying crime cruise, November 2nd through the 7th, from Miami to Haiti to Jamaica, back to Miami. And what I want to know is, are you and Gibby going on this before I book it?

Thanks. Bye. All right. So I am not aware of that cruise. I don't know who it's affiliated with. But what I can say is that Gibby and I were not asked to be on that cruise. We were not. But what's funny is I just made that cruise.

That exact cruise. I was just thinking that. You already been there? Yeah. You've done that. That's the cruise that my family and I took right before Christmas. It was Miami, Jamaica, and Haiti. Yeah.

And you know, did not make that cruise? Me. Because you left me out. Yeah. Once again, on a family vacation. And you know what's funny about that is I don't even think it came up during the discussion of the vacation of whether or not we should take Gibby. I think it should be one of the talking points.

moving forward. I don't think anyone in my family brought it up. As you plan this year's vacation, I hope that you guys remember to loop me in. I will definitely ask the question and see how many people vote for you going. I'm hoping to lose one vote. One vote. Somebody. Oh, all right.

Well, we had no mailbag this week. So that's it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and give you. Stay safe and keep your own. time ticking.