True Crime All The Time - Robert Berdella

Episode Date: March 23, 2020

Bob Berdella murdered at least six men in Kansas City, Missouri in the 1980s. When he was finally caught and all the details of his crimes came out, the press dubbed him "The Butcher of Kansas City" and "The Kansas City Butcher". Berdella drugged, sexually assaulted, tortured and murdered his victims. He was a sadist and his crimes were extremely brutal.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the life and crimes of Robert Berdella. What was it, exactly, that caused Berdella to begin murdering when he was in his thirties? For much of his life he appeared to be an upstanding citizen who always held a job, started his own business, and owned his own house. But something was festering inside Bob that he began acting on in the 1980s. He began luring men back to his house with evil intentions.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise and donation informationAn Emash Digital ProductionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 175 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you? I'm good, man. How about you? I'm doing great. Good. You know, you and I talked a little bit earlier.

We did our video for Patreon. Right. Weekly video that we put out on Patreon every week. We kind of talked about what's going on in the world right now and we're in uncharted waters. We are. And I know you're working from home. Yeah. I always work from home.

But all my kids are home. My wife is home. You know, you can't find meat at the supermarket. There's just a lot of stuff going on that everyone is having to deal with. And I think for me, I don't want to spend a lot of time talking about it because people are being inundated. Right.

With it on the news and everywhere you look. I'll just say this. I think from me and you, we love our listeners. We do. we have the best fans in the world. We want everyone to stay safe. And hopefully you and I will continue to put out this podcast.

We'll do our very best. And that will be a respite from kind of the other things that are going on. It's what we always try to do. Yeah. That's our plan of action. And I think right now it's, it's more important than ever to have that distraction, to have, you know, something to listen to.

that is not what's going on in the world right now because, you know, it's kind of rough. Oh, yeah, you mean you open up your social media, if you go to the TV, whatever, man. It's always on blast there. Yep. Yeah. What do we got? Some new Patreon supporters. Yeah, we do.

We want to give some shoutouts. Yeah. We had Tracy Sutton jumped out to our highest level. Hey, Tracy. Amanda. What's going on, Amanda? Paula Barker jumped out to our highest level. Wow, thanks, Paula.

We had Trisha Harvey. Hey, Trisha. Megan Crane. What's going on, Megan? Eva Landoy jumped out of our highest level. That's a Landoy? Landoy. I like that.

Patricia. Hey, Patricia. Louise Elizabeth Brathen. What's going on, Brathen? Kaylee Grove. Hey, Kaylee. Maria Tuttle jumped out of our highest level. Thanks, Maria.

Melissa Hislop. Oh, Hisslap. Aaron McDaniel. Hey, thanks, Aaron. Courtney York. What's going on, Courtney? Andy Edwards. Hey, thanks, Andy.

Tessa Ward. Appreciate that, Tessa. Dena Kelly jumped out of our highest level. There's Deney. We had Jenie. Spencer. Hey, Jen. Monkey. Really? Mm-hmm. Get it off my back. Monkey. Bree Thomas. Hey, Bree Thomas. Jacob. What's going on, Jacob? And Amy King. Hey, Amy. So we appreciate all that brand new support. You know, I think now more than ever. It means a lot to you and I. It really does.

And if we go back into the Vault Gibbs, this week we selected Danielle Samson Lemke. Yeah. Yeah, she's been around for a long time. Yep, been with us a long time. Pretty vocal. out there on social media, big supporter of the show. Love it. So we really appreciate that. We appreciate all the people that continue to support us

month after month. We had some PayPal donations as well. Keith and Hanson. Hey, Keith and Ann. Karen Martin. Appreciate that, Karen. Jillian Yeager. I thought it was going to be Jagger.

Yeah, well, moves like Yeager. Yeah, like that. And Donna Weaver. What's going on, Donna? So love it. Appreciate it. All of it. Gibbs, right now.

now we have a brand new episode out on true crime all the time unsolved we're talking about sarah fox this was a young woman yep who and we say this a lot but she had it all i mean the world in the palm of her hand she was really talented very talented you know to the point where she was accepted to juliar yeah in new york she was attending that school i know you got close to getting into there. I did. At the last moment, they, you know what? Can't do it.

Because that one thing. My jazz hands weren't quite on par with everyone else's. But Sarah Fox went missing from Manhattan, was later found from there. You and I get into it. The investigation, the suspects, okay. There's some things that are going on and we'll get into all of it. Absolutely. All right, Mr. Gibson.

Are you ready to get into this episode of true crime all the time? It's funny. You call me Mr. Well, I'm giving you the respect that you deserve. Yeah. About time. About time. 175 episodes, man, that is kind of hard to believe.

That means I've been coming here for a minimum of 170 times. Yep. I would say that's true. I mean, when you go back to 2016, think about that when we first. started and think 175 episodes later, did you, I didn't think that. Wow. Didn't think we'd get to a hundred. You know, it's just one of those things that you don't contemplate because you don't

know what you're doing. Yeah. When you first start out. I didn't think I get the episode two. Well, I didn't. Well, you didn't. And then you came back around. But I will say this.

And I'll speak for you. I know you and I are both very proud of what we've put out over the year. Yes. And we have an amazing fan base and that is awesome. In this episode, we're talking about Robert Bob Berdela, who is often called the butcher of Kansas City. I thought Gibbs for our 175th episode, we would cover a somewhat bigger case. And this is a case that many people have requested really back since the very beginning of the podcast. This is a man who murdered at least six men in the 1980s. He lured them to his home, tortured them, sexually abused them, and then ultimately

killed them. Yeah. And he dismembered his victims and put them out for the garbage men to take away. Like they were old, discarded food scraps. Yeah. Just trash to him. Yeah. That's exactly the way that he thought about it.

I mean, the thing. the things that this guy did, they'll haunt some people's nightmares. I think after, after listening to this episode, Robert Burdella was born on January 31st, 1949 in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio. Of course, it's very hard for you and I to do a podcast about serial killers where we're not talking about Ohio and at least some portion. Yeah, it always sneaks in there, doesn't it? Somehow, Cahoga Falls is in the northeast part of the state. It's very close to Akron and south of Cleveland. Robert's father, Robert Berdella Sr. worked at Fort, and his mother, Mary, was a homemaker. Bob had a brother who came along seven years later, and the two were very different.

Bob was an unathletic loner, while his brother was more outgoing and into sports. do you have something similar in your brotherly dynamic or were you guys pretty much all the same? I think we were different on those type of levels. Okay. Because I knew you were very active in sports. You were athletic and you wrestled. You wore tights when you wrestled. Even when I didn't.

Or when you didn't. But I think that's often the case. Yeah. Right? It's not like in every family. If one person is, you know, the Uber athlete. everybody else is going to follow suit. It just doesn't happen.

No, it doesn't work that way. But I think what happened here, Gibbs, is, and it's been reported this way, the father, he put a very high emphasis on sports. And a lot of dads do. Yeah, I mean, I had friends that had dads like that. And every one of their, you know, siblings were in sports. They didn't want to be there. But they were kind of nudged into it by the dad.

you know, you've seen those dads who are screaming from the sidelines and urging their children on. That's awesome. Right. Unfortunately, I have, and I'm sure you have as well, seen the dad who at the end of the day, no matter what their son did, they could have scored 25 points in the basketball game. Oh, yeah. There was a turnover. And that turnover was all that is talked about.

Yep. The kid was the star of the game. except for he did this one thing. That's up and that's all they concentrate on. I think Bob's dad viewed him as a major disappointment compared to his brother. And a lot of it had to do with sports. I mean, Bob just wasn't into sports. He wasn't good at it.

Their father was both physically and verbally abusive, which we know is not good, never good. But outside of that, I didn't find a whole lot in, Bob's childhood that really stood out. Now, I'll say this, Gibbs. Obviously, there is no one childhood template for making a serial killer. It just doesn't work that way. Right. But with as many episodes as you and I have done, there are a number of things that we often see that we often talk about. I didn't see a lot of it. I didn't see where Bob tortured animals as a kid. I didn't see where he had a history of head injuries. He was intelligent. He was artistic. He did well in school. Although he was teased and bullied, there's sometimes a component to that. Sure there is.

He was extremely near-sighted. So from the age of five, he had to wear what were described as extremely thick glasses. Yeah. My brother had to do that too. Did he? Yeah. Bob also had a speech impairment. He had a list. And I'm sure that all of these things were things that, you know, other kids picked on him about. We, we, we've said it. Kids are cruel. A lot of them are, a lot of them really can be. Yeah. You know, and I don't know where it all stems from. I think sometimes it stems from their own insecurities. They're not secure with themselves. So they have to find something about someone else and point it out and make fun of it and and kind of bring that person down. It's horrible.

It doesn't make it right. But it's what they do. It's definitely what they do. Like you and I have said, I don't know that it's prolific today as it was when you and I were kids because it was pretty much all day, every day. Somebody was getting picked on. Yeah, it was pretty bad. The bullying, the teasing and, you know, and if you weren't one of the bigger kids and

able to stand up for yourself, you were, you were going to get it. Right. You hate those squirleys in the toilet, didn't you? Oh, I did. Yeah. I did because I was just a little guy. Yeah. I never know. I actually wasn't. I was always one of the big kids. But I will say this, and I'm proud of myself for this. I was not a bullet. I never was. Yeah. Could have been. I was bigger than most kids my age, I think pretty much throughout school. I just never saw it. You know, and it maybe it was my upbringing. Maybe I was taught, hey, that's not right. Don't do that. You're a good guy.

Yeah. And I'm not patting myself on the back or anything. Most people listening weren't bullies. It's just, it's one thing that I look back on and say, man, am I glad? I didn't do that. Right. Because I think I would have really felt horrible about myself even today. You'd want to make it amends.

Bob was 16 years old in 1965. And this was a rough year for him. His father died of a heart attack at the age of 39, very young, much younger than either you or I. Yeah. So Bob had a part-time job working at a restaurant and he later claimed that he was raped by a male coworker. That's something not to, that you wouldn't put out there lightly. I mean, you're not going to make that up, I don't think.

No, most people would not. Right. And, you know, we're going to. maybe look back on that. And really this year, this 1965 year as, okay, what role did it play in what Bob is later going to do? Because in addition to these two things, it was 1965 when a movie came out called The Collector. And Bob went to go see this movie. And I don't know if you've ever seen it, Gibbs. I think they made a, I don't know if it was a remake. There's a newer movie called The Collector. And I don't even, I'm not sure it's even about the same thing.

But the 1965 movie based on a book by the same name is about this socially awkward man who collects butterflies and then decides to collect a young woman that he's kind of been coveting and keep her. So it's dark. It's twisted, especially for 1965 when the book was way ahead of its time as far as being like this psychological thriller. Sounds like one of those Stanley Kubrick movies. Yeah, to be honest with you, I actually haven't seen it. And I'm going to make a point to watch it because I do think at least the book. I don't know how much the movie, but the book has influenced a number of killers. I don't think it's maybe to the point of Catcher in the Rye, but the collector comes up in the backgrounds of a number of serial killers.

Yeah. Yeah. Also the year in which Bob Berdela begins collecting things, stamps, coins, artifacts from all over the world. Like I said, 1965 was a very pivotal year in Bob's life. I don't think there's any doubt about that. The movie The Collector was a huge influence on him throughout his life and especially his later crimes. And he would later turn his fondness for collecting items and artifacts into a business.

Bob graduated high school. But unlike a lot of serial killers from this time frame Gibbs that we've profiled, he never served in the military. You and I make that comment a lot. Now, I think a lot of it had to do with the time. You know, that of the killer, those killers in the 80s. And I think a lot of them served in Vietnam or he never did. He never served in the military at all.

Was able not to have to do that, huh? Well, after high school, Bob headed off to the Kansas City Art Institute. So that's kind of a change, right? From Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio to Kansas City, Missouri. Well, at least he's getting out of Ohio, man. And that's what we always say. Yeah. But it was the late 60s and Bob was into drugs like a lot of people were in the 60s, not only using them, but he was selling them as well.

He had several arrests for possession of LSD and amphetamines. He also had an arrest for trying to sell to an undercover officer. Oh, there you go. Something that I know you know a whole lot about. Maybe, maybe not. undercover officers can get you. But he never did any real time for these drug charges, right? These are like spend a few days in jail. I think he got, you know, maybe a couple of years probation for one. There was a lot of that going on back. Yeah, because there was a lot of drugs. There really were.

I'm not sure how much of it was the drugs, but it's been reported that Bob got a little strange with his work at the Art Institute, Gibbs, he reportedly once did a live art piece where he cut the head off a duck, danced around with it. I've seen some reports that said he cooked it up in front of other people. Little strange. Kind of like a Ozzy Osbourne thing. Yeah, I was going to say Andy Warhol meets Ozzy Osbourne. Yeah. I think that kind of puts it in perspective and I get it right art is subjective much of it to be honest with you I don't really get it all right when somebody says oh that's a great piece and it's worth a million dollars I'm like what is it I don't know what it is I think I seen something like that out in that garage one time yeah really that's

or sometimes I think I could do that and I can't paint it all yeah but a live performance piece like this you know I think about this and I'm like no no no this is not for me and I don't think it was for the other students as well. Imagine you're in this group setting. You're set to see a live show. Sure. Put on by one of your fellow art students. And the first thing he does is cut the head off an animal. Yeah. And start dancing around. You know, most people are not going to like that. They're going to be offended by that. Yeah. Just cut Donald's head off. Exactly. Happy time. It's not going to go over well. Well, let's put it this way. You're probably not going to be at the top of the guest list for kegers after that one.

But it was the 60s and there was a lot of weird shit going on during that time. Much of it fueled by drugs. I watched a show on Netflix not too long ago. People that grew up in the 60s and they're older now, but they still swear to this day, LSD was the best thing that ever happened to them. They love that stuff. Yeah, I know you grew up in the 60s. You've told me many stories about that LSD. As an infant.

Might be what's wrong with you now? Yeah, could be. Could be. Bob dropped out of the art school in 1969. He got a job as a cook at a restaurant, but he also bought a house in Kansas City, Missouri. And it was this house that he lived in, that he committed his, crimes in. He was there right up until the time that police caught up with him. This is his home base. And it will be for a, you know, a long number of years. Then we get to the

1970s. I assume Bob like the rest of the country, put on his bell bottoms, did his thing. I don't know if he was into disco. I kind of highly doubt it. Well, disco duck, given, given the fact that he was an introvert, he didn't seem like a disco guy to me. Yeah. He was in his 20s. And really this time in his life, it appeared to be pretty normal for Bob. He worked at a number of restaurants as a cook. He was collecting a lot of things, not people yet at this point, but items from all around

the world. I mean, this was a fascination with him and would develop into. even more pretty much throughout his life. Be like the eBay today. It would be. Yeah. And that's kind of what he's going to be with some very strange items. Like the oddity stuff, huh?

Yeah. Yeah, he got into that because eventually what Bob did was he started selling some of these things that he had collected over the years on a part-time basis. Now, here's one thing I want to talk about, Gibbs. I'm not sure at what age. Bob Berdela realized that he was homosexual. I think it was pretty early on, maybe in his midteens, early teens, something like that. Yeah.

But it wasn't something that he made known. That was something I think that he pretty much kept to himself. I think a lot of people did back then, too. Back then especially. But it seems as though it was, you know, in his 20s when he started to become a little more open about it, he began making friends with young men around the neighborhood. And many of these were male sex workers. Some were drug addicts.

I really got the impression that at least at first, you know, in the 1970s, it was as if Bob was trying to reach out and help some of these individuals, either to help them get out of the sex work game, or to get off drugs. A good guy. It seemed like he was helping them or trying to help them if you believe what he has said. And that's always a big part of every story that we do. He would sometimes let these young men stay at his house.

He said there was no sex involved in these early years, right? In the 70s. But again, all of this is coming from Bob, you know, from Bob Berdala. So it's a little hard. with all of these type of guys to know, okay, what's real and what's BS? Exactly. Because some of these guys are real BS artists. They put you to shame.

They do. They do. But what I think is no, is that Bob's neighbors didn't think that he was a menace to society. They didn't think he was doing anything wrong or, you know, doing anything shady. many of them came out later and said, you know, they thought Bob was genuinely trying to help these young men. They would see these young guys come, stay for a little while, leave, come back. Sure, they thought he was a little strange.

I think his neighbors did, maybe a little eccentric, but harmless. And really Gibbs, when you look at this guy, you would not think, okay, this guy is an evil monster. Now, we know looks can be deceiving, but he looks like the neighbor that you're going to find in pretty much any place in the country. Yeah, when they look like that, it really doesn't raise any concerns to me. And I think that's natural with people, right? And people can go out on our Facebook page. They'll see a picture of Bob Berdela. He doesn't have that oddest tool or that Richard Ramirez look that makes you think, hmm, I think I better stay away from this guy.

Because, you know, there's something going on. Don't think we need to ask him if he has any eggs tonight. No. No, there are some people that you and I talk about that turn out to be very vicious serial killers that taking one look at them, I would be on guard. Yeah, you would be like, why would you even get near that guy? Right. This guy's got, you know, his teeth are filed down into points. Okay.

I don't know why you did that, but I don't want no part of it. Yeah, good luck to you. I'm going to keep all my digits and all my extremities. But the other thing that that probably threw his neighbors off was this guy joined the neighborhood watch program. You know, he's, he's out there looking to keep the neighborhood safe. That's pretty smart, man. He's just looking out for his community.

But again, if you believe him, he's not doing anything. Right. At this point in time in the 70s. So there is no reason to fear him. No, there really isn't. But when you get to the 1980s, Bob, Berdela is in his early 30s. He made the decision that he was tired of working in the food service industry. He wanted to start selling the things that he had been collecting for years and he wanted to do it

full time. Right. He'd been dabbling. But now he wanted to do it full time and that's exactly what he did. All right, Gibbs. Let's take a quick break to talk about our sponsors. And first up is article. Article is the easiest way to make your space look beautiful. This direct to consumer furniture company combines the curation of a boutique furniture store with the comfort and simplicity of shopping online. My wife and I have ordered a number of things from Article. She got some amazing Ottomans and something called a poof that I'm still trying to figure out what it is, but I know I can put my feet on it and it looks great. Gibbs, you know, I've ordered a number of really cool looking lamps for the studio.

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gabbi.com slash teacat. He set up full time at this place called the Westport flea market and he named his shop Bob's Bazar Bazar. Really? B, B, B, B, B. Yeah, which is an interesting play on words. And it was really, you know, kind of around this time that Bob ramped up his sexual activity with a number of young male sex workers in the area. And one of these young men was a 19 year old named Jerry How. Well, Jerry Howe just happened to be the son of a guy. named Paul Howe who also ran a booth at the Westport flea market. So Bob Berdela knew Paul Howe, and by extension, he knew his son, Jerry. Yeah, small world.

But Jerry Howe would become Bob's first victim. The two got together on July 4th, 1984, and they made their way to Berdella's home. Bob drugged Jerry with some type of animal. tranquilizer, among other things, he used a number of things to knock out his victims. He gagged the man, tied him to the bed, and Gibbs over the next day or so, sodomized him repeatedly. And Jerry Howe died from not being able to breathe. Basically, he asphyxiated. Yeah.

Now, according to Bob, it had to have been some combination of the drugs. that he had given this guy and the gag in his mouth that was taped. So between the two, he couldn't breathe. He might have even vomited in his mouth. Couldn't get rid of it. Choked. He couldn't expel it. And he died.

This is terrible, though. I mean, that's like to be kidnapped and held there, knowing that every time that door opens, you know what's going to happen. You know he's coming in there to do that one thing to you again and again and again. Yeah, and I don't want to make a, what was a 24 hour, 28 hour, 30 hour period of time seemed trivial because it was not. I'm sure it was torturous. This man lost his life.

The thing is, some of Bob's later victims are going to go through this for much longer periods of time. He ramps up as we, you know, get through this story. Well, this is a learning phase for him. It is. I mean, if you believe him. And there's reasons to believe Bob, and we'll talk about it later. But if you believe him, this is his very first murder. So he's testing some things out probably.

It's just alarming, though, because, like you said, if you believe him, there was nothing that occurred before this. He just decided one day this was going to be it. Today's the day. Yeah. You know, and this is one of the things. We'll probably talk about it towards the end that I have trouble with when it comes to Bob Berdala.

He hasn't been exactly Mr. Talkative about, you know, what prompted all this and exactly why he did some of the things he did. He's given some vague answers that, you know, that we'll dive into. After Jerry Howell died, Bredello took him to the basement of his house and he hung him upside down and Gibbs he slit him open. Like a deer. Like a deer and drained his blood. I think maybe he put a bucket underneath and just opened him up. Then he dismembered his body. He put the pieces into trash bags and then he just put the rest of them on the curb with the rest of his garbage.

Wow. And this really would become his M.O. For all of his murders. In fact, none of his victims' bodies were ever found. They were all taken unknowingly by. some garbage man to a landfill somewhere. Now, eventually all of this is going to come out. And somebody's going to know that, hey, I was on that route during those years.

I likely transported a large number of people's bodies to the dump. It's scary to think about that. It is. But it seems like that's probably, I think it was easier to do that back then, too. I don't know if you could do that today, putting things in your trash. Really? you think you think your trash guy really goes through and looks closely at the bags? I just think it would be harder to get away with it.

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if it would be. Now, from a forensic standpoint, I would say 100%, right? Well, sure. Heirs. What did you leave in the bag? What did the bag pick up?

Is it, you know, you dropped it in the garage? Right. But here's the thing. Bob Berdela's murders are not going to come out for a number of years. So these bodies that, you know, are being taken to the landfill. Once a number of years goes by, there's no way that you're ever going to recover those bodies. And that's why they never do.

You know, eventually they're going to make the decision that they could spend years combing through landfills and never find the remains of these individuals. and they don't. They decide it's just too big a task. We can't do it. To do that and the hope that you find bone fragments. Because that's what you're going to find, right? Yeah. It's like a needle in a haystack. Bob waited almost a year before he claimed his next victim. This time, it was a man named Robert Sheldon. And this was a guy who Bob knew. Sheldon had stayed at Bredello's home in the past. And again, he needed a place to stay. So he reached out to Bob and Bob led him in, but then proceeded to drug him and do essentially the exact same

thing to him that he had done to Jerry Howe. He sexually abused this man for days. And he increased the level of torture. This is something we're going to see with successive murders. He began experimenting with injecting different chemicals into Robert. He put cock in his ears. So that was really strange, you know. So that he, I guess so that he couldn't hear. Yeah. He put drain cleaner in his eyes so that he couldn't see. He's just trying different things out. But he just went from one extreme to this, you know, it's like, it's brutal. It was all brutal. Yeah. But he's just like, now I'm going to do this. I'm going to plug your ears up with this cock. I'm going to rub this stuff in your eyes so you can't see. But, and I think what we'll see is with all the murders, they get increasingly more brutal.

The duration gets extended and the different types of torture get more numerous. Yeah. He's experimenting over time. And to be this guy to show up thinking, hey, man, I'm just going to stay at my buddy's house for a few days, get back on the road again, whatever. And then this happens, you know, you get drugged and you wake up. and you find him doing this to you and then find him putting this stuff in your ears, in your eyes. I don't know. And that's another thing with this case that, you know, Bob Berdala was a guy that kind of, for the most part, picked a lot of people that he knew. Yeah. You know, his first two victims were quasi-friends. I mean, he knew them. This wasn't a guy that was out,

you know, picking up people on the street that he had never met before. He had a kind of connection to these people. And it is kind of what makes it strange. But then Gibbs a worker came to Bob's house or maybe a number of workers to fix the roof. I think this was something that, you know, Bob Bredella had scheduled. I don't know if he forgot about it or what, but I think he got a little bit scared that the worker or workers would hear Robert Sheldon. So he put a bag over his head and suffocated him. Didn't want to take the risk. No, he didn't want to take the risk.

Then he drained the blood from Robert's body, dismembered him, and again, put him out for trash pickup, except for his head. He kept his head and buried it in his backyard. There's a mistake. So we've got a little Ed Kemper here going on. Yeah. But when I say it like that, Gibbs, it sounds so impersonal. I mean, I know it is.

Right. You know, all of this is impersonal. But to say it aloud, it really drives it home to me just exactly how Bredello thought of his victims. They were things. Yeah. Objects. They were not human to him. He didn't care one bit. No. About these folks. And I think a part of that is because he didn't see them as human. He saw them as something that you might, um, own or whatever, but to throw it in the trash, you can do that because you own it. Yeah. You don't throw human beings in the trash. You don't kill them, first of all. Was this an object or a collectible? Yeah. And that's exactly the way that he treated his victims.

That same year, Verdella murdered twice more. In June, he murdered Mark Wallace. And then in September, he killed James Ferris. Both were tortured, sexually brutalized. and then dismembered exactly as he had done with his other victims. And his experimentation with torture also continued. Apparently, he got a hold of some type of electrical transformer.

Right. And he turned this into like a mini electric chair without the chair. It was like a, you know, you've got some clamps. Clamps and you're able to shock people. Yeah. With it. So he created this or he built it and he would place the clamps on different body parts, including the genitals of his victims.

Torture him. I mean, it was just straight out torture. Berdela only killed once in 1986. And he chose a 23-year-old male sex worker that he had known for some time. This was a guy named Todd Stubes. And with Stoops, Berdella stuck to him. his MO. But I think Gibbs with this one, you can see him start to change a little bit. For one thing, he kept Mark Stoops longer, multiple weeks and tortured and sexually abused and

assaulted this guy for the entire time. See, and this is somebody's neighbor, man, right? This is like somebody that lives right next door. You never know what's going into that house next door to you. No, never. They thought this could be happening. in my neighborhood right now? Absolutely. I would have no idea. Yeah. And this is scary that it can be happening like that.

I'm not standing with binoculars at the front window at all, you know, every second of the day. Oh. Watching my neighbor seeing what's going on. But with Todd Stoops, Berdella used electricity on different parts of his body. He injected drain cleaner into his throat. He was experimenting with how to keep his victims quiet. What would it do if I do? I do this.

Right. If I do this, what happens? You know, you go back to putting caulk in somebody's ears. Right. Drain cleaner in the eyes. Now you're injecting drain cleaner and other types of chemicals into the throat to see, okay, is that going to prevent people from being able to scream or talk? Todd Stoops was tortured so severely that he eventually died just from trauma.

You know, he wasn't as fixed. He wasn't strangled. He just died. His heart probably just gave out on that. Then in 1987, you can see Bredela get even more daring. He targeted a guy named Larry Pearson. And, you know, it was said these guys were quasi-friends. Bob actually bailed Pearson out of jail. And then he invited him to come stay at his house. He thought, man, this is great. I'm out of jail. Yeah. Life's going to get good now. My buddy just bailed me out of jail. Yeah. And then he just offered me a place to stay.

It was great. Can't wait to get there. The problem is, as he had done with his other victims, he drugged, tortured, and sexually abused Pearson. The difference here gives is that it lasted for six weeks. Six weeks. Terrible, man. It's terrible. And this time, it was as if Bredella used everything.

that he had tried in his previous experiments on this man. So I'm talking about the electricity, the drain cleaner. He even broke both of this guy's hands so that he was less likely to escape. Yeah. And I don't think it's possible for anyone, unless, you know, you've gone through something like this and most people have not, to imagine the hell that this man went through, at the hands of Bob Berdala. Six weeks is a long time to suffer this type of torture and sexual abuse. I mean, nobody should go through it at all.

One day is too much. One hour, one minute, but six weeks. I just could imagine laying there and hearing the creeks of the floor, you know, if he could hear, because maybe he's got a half a tube of cock into each other canal and he can't. But even if he couldn't, if he could see a shadow, if he could. or just when someone touched his skin. Eventually you're going to know that that person is back. And you're going to be like, what's he going to do now?

And is it going to be the same? I just want to be done. You know, kill me. Think about the anticipation, the fear of when's it going to be? Is it going to be next hour? Sure. Is it going to be in three hours? Is he going to leave me alone for six hours?

Physical, mental torture. Well, and there are some reports. that said Bob Berdala wanted sex. And sex is really not the right word here. We're talking about violent rape. Yeah. Three, sometimes four times a day for six weeks. Well, eventually this guy Larry Pearson had enough.

And he found his opportunity when Bob was forcing him to perform fallatio on him one day. Larry Pearson bit down on what I can only assume Gibbs was a very short, thin pencil-like tallywacker. Probably, yeah. Of Bob Berdela. I think if you see this in a movie, this is the point where the crowd cheers. Right. Right? Because this guy's fought back and he's hurt his attacker.

The bad guy is now getting what is due. Yeah. To, you know, come to him. The problem is it didn't help Larry Pearson escape. It did send Bob to the hospital. Yeah. And I think that's going to be a tough injury to explain. I know you might as well tell me how you've explained it in the past.

Hey, some things you just got to leave alone. You can't explain that kind of stuff. But think about that. You have to go into the emergency room. Yeah. and show someone your manhood and say, I don't know if you have to say anything. There's going to be visible teeth marks on there. I think they're going to know something occurred.

And at that point, just try to fix it. You think? Can you fix this, Doc? Yeah. The problem is Larry Pearson's tied up, chained up. He's not able to escape. So he's there after Berdela spends this little amount of time at the hospital. He's probably not there that long.

Well, I'm sure this whole time he knows what's probably going to be coming soon. And it did. He killed Larry Pearson and dismembered him and set his body out with the trash. But I don't know. Gibbs at some point, you have to make a decision. You're six weeks in. You've been brutalized possibly three, four, five times a day in unimaginable ways. At what point do you make the decision that I'm all in?

I'm going for it no matter what. Yeah, I think so because you know at that point he's not going to ever release you. He can't. Chances are low, I would think. So either you stay where you're at and keep taking the abuse until he finally does kill you, or you try to get some revenge, maybe get away. But if not, at least you put a little hurt on him. And at that point, maybe he will go ahead and end it now and put you out of your misery.

I wouldn't want to have to keep doing that day and day out having that happen to me. I would fight every moment, I think. Hey, this is how I'm going to be. So if you're not going to let me go, go ahead and do me a nap because I'm not going to take this. Yeah, no, I know you would. I'm not saying they would didn't either. You know, it's hard to fight when you're strapped and chained up. Yeah.

So the beginning of the end for Bob Berdella came just before Easter in 1988. A few days before. He picked up a 22-year-old sex worker named Chris Bryson. The two met at a Greyhound bus station. They went back to Bredella's home for sex, but as soon as they got into the house, Bob clocked this guy over the head, and he abused and tortured Chris for several days in the same way that he had with his other victims. But on April 2nd, right?

This is right before Easter, Chris Bryson was able to. to get his hands on a matchbook that I guess Berdala maybe had left in the room or something. And he used one of the matches to burn through the ropes, binding his hands. He then made a daring jump from Berdala's second story window to the street below. He started running and screaming and said like what you would imagine somebody would do. Yeah. Hey, help me. You know, he started flagging different people down.

I wouldn't know what to think when you see that coming at you, you know, I just wouldn't know what to think. And I think it would have been even harder to understand what was going on when you saw that Chris Bryson was wearing only a dog collar at the time that he escaped. So he jumped out this window. He's naked as a j-bird. Yeah. Wearing a dog collar running down the street, trying to flag people for help. You have to make that decision. Do I let him in my car? Oh, sure, because you don't know what this, what this situation is.

Is he on drugs? What's, what's the deal here? But he did eventually get to police. And he was able to tell police everything about his ordeal. And it didn't take them long to show up at Bob's doorstep. This guy knew who Bob was. He knew where the house was located, where he had been kept. When police service, I searched Bob's home, Gibbs, they hit the mother load. They found over 200 photographs of men. Police at one point estimated that in these 200 photographs, there were more than 20 different men. One photograph showed a man that appeared to be dead hanging upside down from a beam in Bredella's basement. That's not good. No. Why would you have that? These are not photographs that you printed off the internet, these are like polaroids. They found a couple of skulls in his house. I think one of them turned out to be like a collectible, some type of old relic.

Yeah. But one was later identified as Robert Sheldon, one of his victims. And he's just got it in his house. Just sitting right there. Sure. Now, if you remember, I said he buried that head. Well, he at some point buried another head that we're going to talk about. Then he dug up that one and said, you know what?

I'm going to display that one in my house because that's the kind of guy I am. I said, that's a mistake. It's not good. He got rid of everything else but kept that. And that's not, you know. He got rid of everything else related to the bodies. Yeah. I think, I mean, most of it.

They did find syringes. They found some human teeth and verminers. But I never could really figure out if the human teeth were, again, collectible. Because he bought all of these weird things. He thought all those oddities. These oddities that he would sell. And these were from different countries. But to keep the skull of one of your victims, after you've gone through all that work, yeah, it's, it's pretty dumb. But we know a lot of serial killers are not smart when it comes to that because they feel like they need to keep something. They like trophies.

They got to keep a trophy. They got to keep a souvenir because it allows them to recreate their murders in that moment. But police also found what they called a detail diary. And this was basically Bordella sitting down and writing about his murders and all of his torturous activity. We hear this time and time again. Yeah. I think a lot of killers have the need to record. for posterity what they've done.

Now, most of the time people record something for posterity for other people, generations down the road. Right. Serial killers aren't doing that. They're doing it for themselves. Yeah. So that they can grab this piece of paper and look back and see,

oh yeah, I remember that. On such and such a date, I killed this person. And these are all the things that I did to them. And get off to it again. Exactly. But let's hear a clip.

Because I definitely wanted to play. I have a couple of clips. I wanted to hear from Bob Berdala. This was an interview that he did. He did very few interviews, but this is an interview that he did with a local television station. I kept sheets of paper, but I had made some notations on. This is between the mattress and springs on my bed. This is one of those packages containing innumerous photographs.

And what became to be known as meticulous method. diaries. Those pieces of paper in there are these meticulous diaries. The sheets of paper upon which you made notes. Right. By your evaluation, does this look methodical? Doesn't look methodical? Maticulous? It looks a little sloppy.

They are not that bound in Corinthian leather, written on parchment diaries that the media apparently tries to tries to describe them as. There sheets of paper. There are notes. So this is why I wanted to play this part, right? It's just a very small portion of the interview. And we'll hear another portion in a little bit.

But Bob Berdala had a real problem with the way that the media had portrayed him, right? They called him the butcher of Kansas City. They talked about the fact that he kept these detailed notes or this detailed diary of all his killings. So he's talking to this reporter and he's like, it's just, it's just loose leaf paper. I didn't, I didn't bind them in Corinthian leather. No, but you still wrote down on loose leaf paper all this, this shit that you did. It just, you know, in that laugh, man, how can you laugh in the face of what you did?

It's just. Yeah, I mean, he's sitting there, he thinks it's a joke. Yeah, you know, he's really trying to play it off, but these diaries or these. papers or documents or whatever you want to call them, they were very detailed. I mean, Gibbs, Berdela had abbreviations for, you know, things that he had done to his victims. We talked about the fact that he had tortured his victims in a variety of ways. So he had little codes for electricity. You know, he had codes for when he stuck metal rods into someone's orifice, when he

put drain cleaner in their eyes. He had a code for when he injected the drain cleaner into the throat of one of his victims in an effort to keep them quiet. It was all there. And it was very detailed. And some of the sexual stuff that, you know, we haven't really got into. I think people understand when I say that this guy was a sexual sadist and that he raped these men, sodomized them, repeatedly. I think everybody can draw their own conclusions about all the stuff that went on. It was brutal. Yeah, he was a butcher. He was. He was. He was very sadistic. Yes. Now, did he sound sadistic in that clip? No. No. And when you look at him, the voice goes with the picture. You're not going to see Lorenzo Llamas attached to that voice. You're going to see what that voice sounds like. Yeah.

when you see the picture. But it just really ticks me off the way he laughs, you know, the way that he... It's a joke. And, you know, he's deflecting the fact that he killed all these people and he did all these horrible things. And he's saying, why is the media talking about these detailed meticulous journals? That's not what they were. They're just loose paper.

Yeah. He's missing the whole point here. Exactly. Now, at first, Bob was only charged with offenses related to his crimes against Chris Bryson. That's the guy that got away from him. Now, they were serious crimes, right? We're talking about seven counts of sodomy, one count of felonious restraint and one count of first degree assault. He was booked and a judge set his bail at half a million dollars.

So pretty serious. But based on what investigators had found at his home. they believed he was a murderer. The problem they had was that this investigation was somewhat backwards for them, right? Normally, you have a victim or victims, and you're trying to identify the killer. Here, you have what appears to be evidence of a number of murders. You have a suspect. Now you have to figure out who the victims are and what happened to them. You had, relatives of missing persons. They started to come forward and say that Bob Berdela was the last person known to have been seen with their loved ones. And that wasn't the first time. We'll find out.

This had happened over the years where people said, you know, my son's missing. As far as I know, he was last with Bob Berdella. Right. The floodgates kind of open up on that one. Yeah, I think to some degree they did because you had a lot of missing person cases in that area. I think police at one point were looking at 11 men that they believed could be connected with Bob Bordella. And then, you know, pretty early on. I mentioned the photograph of a man hanging upside down dead in Bob's basement that was found in his house. Well, it was identified. as Jerry Howe. So at that point,

investigators, they started digging in Bob's yard. They're essentially going all through his house. During the digging, they found another skull buried in his backyard that later was determined to be that of Larry Pearson. And at that point, the judge revoked his bail altogether.

He said, you know, we got something much bigger going on. I don't want this guy getting out for any reason. We're going to keep him right here. And you know what the thinking was gives by investigators. Okay. We've got all these photographs.

Some of these are pretty nasty. We've already found a couple of skulls. There are a large number of bodies buried either in the ground, hidden somewhere in this house. We just have to find them. Sure. So, you know, they're digging up everything. the problem is they would never find any of them. And it wouldn't be until later that they would find out why.

Now, we already know why. Sure, we knew they were taking out to curbside. They didn't know that. And he hadn't told them that yet. Really, things happened very quickly during the second half of 1988. Berdella was indicted for the murder of Larry Pearson, whose skull police found buried in his yard in August. He pleaded guilty to Pearson's murder after authorities agreed to take the death penalty off the table.

So he said, hey, I'll plead guilty, but I don't want to be killed. Yeah. And I think pretty smart move because they just found this man's skull in your yard, buried in your yard. You've got a journal or some type of document that probably either has his name. it's got some type of evidence that you had something to do with his murder. Right. So he knew he was not getting away, right? There was no jury that was going to acquit him of murder. So he said, all right, I'll get out of the death penalty.

I'll plead guilty. So for the murder of Larry Pearson, Berdella received a life sentence with no possibility of parole. So right off the bat, one murder, he's got life, no parole. you're never getting out. Right. He pleaded guilty for the crimes against Chris Bryson who escaped. He got another life sentence for that. And then in September, they charged Bob with the first degree murder of Robert Sheldon,

whose skull was found inside his house. But on this one, prosecutors were seeking the death penalty. And this really kind of, I think, forced Bob's hand. And it led to an agreement, a police. agreement where Bob said, I will confess to all my murders if you will take the death penalty off the table for everything. He already has two life sentences. Sure. It doesn't matter if he gets five more. Yeah. It's not going to be a difference. Right. The only thing he doesn't want, or the only thing that will make a difference at this point is if he gets the death penalty. Right.

So he doesn't want that. They agree. Well, it's a win for them. too, right? They want him to confess so they can 100% say, this is the guy that did this. Yeah. And here's the other thing. I'm not sure what other choice they have. They didn't have the bodies. And I think it would have been near impossible for them to figure out all of the facts without, you know, some type of detailed confession by Bredella. And again, he wasn't going to get out anyway. So yeah. Let's find out everything. will wrap up. The family will know what happened to their sons, their brothers, their uncles, their relatives when it was all said and done. Bob Berdella was sentenced to seven life prison

terms for the six murders and the crimes against Chris Bryson. But he was forced in court to talk about his crimes and all their gory details. I mean, he had to say, this is what I did. And a lot of it was what we've already talked about. You know, I, I drugged this person. I used this drug. I injected them. I put a bag over their head and suffocated them in some instances. And then in every case, he dismembered them and set their body parts out, you know, with the trash. It'd be tough to sit there as a family member to hear all that. But I think you'd, I don't know, I think I would want to sit there just so I knew. Yeah, no, I get it. But what's the alternative? What's bad? Is it better to have to listen to that but know what happened or spend the rest of your life

wondering what actually happened to your loved one? Yeah. And neither one of them is great. No, it would be tough to sit there and hear that about somebody you loved. But, you know, with the number of unsolved episodes that you and I have done, we hear that a lot from the victim's family. It's the not knowing, right? And in a lot of those cases, they don't even know if they've been murdered, if they're still alive. They just don't know what happened to them.

Some mothers, fathers spend the rest of their lives. And they die, not really ever knowing what happened to their children. It's horrible. Now, it can't be a piece of cake, though, to sit in court and have to listen to a monster tell and probably revel in recounting these nasty, horrible details of what they did. Well, especially this guy, the way he's laughing, you know, that one interview, I mean, I think he probably did revel. Well, there was a lot of people that said, you know, he was a smug little piece of shit. He kind of had this air about him, this smugness. I think some of it came through in

that clip we played. So Bob was shipped off to prison, but apparently he was not a model inmate. There were a number of stories written about what a pain in the ass this guy was. in prison, I guess he taunted other inmates, which seems like a very dangerous thing to do when you're built like Bob Berdela. Arnold Schwarzenegger, this guy was not, right? This guy's built more like a webo-wobble. So to go around taunting a bunch of tough guys in prison, right, they had to segregate him. And probably that's what he wanted all along.

Probably, yeah. Because he probably's going to get his ass kicked out there anyway. Well, unless he had a death wish, he was using that as a ploy to get segregated. One prison official was quoted in the St. Louis dispatch is saying, he seems to think he should be quartered at a Hilton hotel instead of serving time for his particularly heinous crimes. He hasn't learned how to do his time yet. Yeah, I think he thought he was above the crowd. I think he thought he was something.

in the same article it said at one point Bob filed 36 written grievances in a four-hour period. Four hours. I don't even know how you can fill out 36 pieces of paper in four hours. Yeah, at that point, he's just driving the prison officials crazy. Yeah, so I guess in response to one of the grievances, they said, you know, you're a belly acre and we're tired of your silly little games. That's what they wrote back to him. In November 1988, a bunch of the items that Bob had collected over the years were auctioned off to help pay for his legal expenses.

And I didn't mention it when I talked about when the police got in. But many of the articles I read said his house was like a maze. I mean, you think of a really bad episode of hoarders maybe. Right. He had a ton of stuff in this house that he. that he used to sell at his flea market business, but it was, it was everywhere. He was the collector. He was.

And according to the Associated Press, there were items that were from 16 million years ago right up to present day. So he had some very old stuff. Probably valuable. Some of it was, was valuable. It took an appraiser a month to go through what was said to have been about 2,000 items. And in the end, it was appraised out at, you know, a few hundred thousand dollars. There were ceremonial Tibetan exorcism knives.

It also listed 2,000 year old Roman vials filled with tears. Really? Yeah. I don't know why you'd want that, but. No, either. Hey. It basically was just a collection of things from places all over the world. Now, I've been to a lot of flea markets.

Not lately. I used to go, I used to get dragged when I was a kid. My family was into flea markets. back in the day, and we have a number of flea markets pretty close to us. I don't remember ever seeing 2,000-year-old vials filled with tears. I probably couldn't have afford them anyway, but I just don't remember seeing stuff like that at our local flea markets. No.

It was more like $9 knives and baseball cards and stuff like that. Some old VHSs. Yeah, probably. Now, a number of the victims' families tried to bring lawsuits against Bob Berdala. many of them were thrown out because they were not filed within the required three year time frame, I think it was. But one was not thrown out. And that one was brought by the family of Todd Stoops.

So get this, Gibbs. The family's attorneys had asked the jury for $1 billion. A billion dollars. That's what they sued for. Wow. That's a big number. It's a huge number. But instead, a jury awarded the family $2.5 billion in compensatory damages for wrongful death and then $2.5 billion in punitive damages.

Wow. That's $5 billion. Yeah. With a B. Yeah. A lot. Which was said to be the largest ever in a wrongful death case at the time. Maybe it's been surpassed.

Maybe not. that is a huge number. Now, obviously, the family was never going to get $5 billion. No. It wasn't going to happen. But part of the claim was against some money that Berdela had in a trust. It wasn't a lot. It was $50,000.

But I think the biggest part of it was to make sure that he never collected any money from his crimes in the future through either, you know, book deals or movie or, you know, his life rights or whatever it was. I read at the time they didn't have that law in Missouri, like the son of Sam law. There was nothing that prevented a guy like Bob Berdala from selling his life story and making a boatload of money. So I think that was a big part of why the jury wanted to really drive up this number. Yeah, keep that from happening.

Now, in the wake of this, they did pass something in Missouri. That makes way should be everywhere. And I think now it is. Yes. But I think it happened at different times in different states. But it didn't matter. You know, Bob was never going to sell his life rights anyway. Because on October 9th, 1992, he was taken to the hospital after complaining of chest pains.

And he died. He was 43 years old. He had only served four years of his sentence. And he was only four years older than his father was when he died of a heart attack. Don't feel bad for him, though. No, no, I don't feel bad for him, but I found it interesting. The genetics behind all that? That both men died at a very, what's a very young age, 39 and 43.

And I think the families of his victims, they looked at it in different ways. Some were like, great. I'm glad he's gone. Some, they weren't happy. That he only served four years. It was as if he was taken away, I don't want to say from them, but from having to sit in this miserable place for longer than what he did. A local millionaire named Del Dunmire, he bought Bredella's house, this house of horrors, and he had it demolished. And as they were going about doing this, one of the demolition workers was asked by a reporter about what he thought, about having to demolish this infamous house.

And he said, you know, it's a strange feeling. You kind of wonder what you might find when you take a wall panel out. Yeah. I think to me, strange feeling might be a little bit of an understatement. That would be creepy as you know what. You definitely be wondering what could come out of that wall right here. Could be bodies in anywhere. Yeah.

You know, now obviously the police looked pretty hard, but still never know, man. When you demo a house, something, you know, could be found for sure. But in the end, they didn't find anything. And I think, you know, that's, that's one of those things that you and I often talk about. Okay. This guy confessed to six murders. Right. Are you really telling me that's all.

he did. Well, in this case, it seems more than likely that it probably is, unlike a lot of other cases, because number one, he took a lot of photographs, but he had the detailed kind of diary notes document type thing. Right. So I think police were pretty certain. I don't know if they could ever be 100% certain, but I think they were pretty okay with the fact that, yeah, it was six. Yeah. And not 40. Yeah. I mean, they end of the day they got the guy. So as we end this episode, I want to play one more clip of Berdala

talking to the reporter. The media has so biased my case. portraying me as being non-human and their motivation is no separate from the way I treated my

victims. I treated them as something less than human. It's nothing more than a play. toy or not a play object. This is what the media has done to me. It's dehumanize me so that it can believe, along with the public, that things like human

sacrifice, sat satanism, demonic practices are more believable than me being a neighbor next door reached a point in his life where he could do monstrous acts. That's not the same thing as being a monster. All right. Guy, you were a monster.

Yeah. Now, he had a problem with the way that the media painted him. I don't know how else they were supposed to paint him. Now, in particular, he had an issue with the fact that there was a lot of talk of him being a Satanist or him being in a cult. He'd said he wasn't. But remember, this is the 80s, satanic panic. They even did like a big Geraldo special. And I think they brought up Bob Berdella as a Satanist and you know, this was the, hey, watch out for your kids because there's all these guys that are into Satanism running around. But there was one thing there that he said that does kind of make sense, right? I think it's easier for people, and especially it was in the 1980s, to think it's got to be Satanism. This has to be the work of a cult. This can't be

just the guy next door neighbor who, for whatever reason, makes the decision that that he's going to start killing, torturing, doing all these bad things. Now, he's saying that's what happened. But that was hard for a lot of people to believe and probably still is to some extent. Yeah, I just think he's a monster. Well, he is a monster. I don't know how he can say, how can the media call me a monster. And the media is doing the same thing to me that I did to my victims. Dude, they are not. It's not even close. No. I mean, he likes to, uh, I don't. I I think he just wants people to feel sorry for him. I don't know how anybody could ever feel sorry for him, not after what he did to those victims.

Well, in the same interview, he blamed the police for not catching him sooner. And he said that he wanted to be caught. He told a reporter that he was questioned a number of times about some of these disappearances over the years. Yeah. He said, you know what? The police had a file on me. They should have been able to put it all together. and then he talked about the time that he went to the hospital when, you know, one of his victims bit his penis.

Yeah. And he said, you know what? That should have raised some red flags. You can throw the blame game around. But the end of the day, if he wanted to be caught, he should just said, hey, hey, I'm doing some bad stuff. Why don't you come over to my house? There's somebody tied up on my bed right now. Or just walk into the police department.

Yeah. At any time, like Kevin Spacey did in seven and say, hey. I'm the guy you're looking for. But you know what? He didn't do that. No. Because you know why? He didn't really want to be caught.

No. He just wants to now deflect and try to make the police look bad. And maybe there's something to it. Maybe they should have been able to, you know, put something together a little sooner. But that's not the point. I think Gibbs. There's no doubt. This guy was a monster.

The murders he committed were extremely vicious. What I still have a hard time with, you know, as it relates to this case is trying to figure out why this guy in his 30s decided to begin killing. He's been kind of vague about it over the years. At one point, he said he really didn't know why or how he became a serial killer. Sure. He did talk at certain points about wanting to get revenge on people and he used his victims in place of them. The one thing that he did say, that I believe is that he began to see his victims as not human.

You heard him in that clip. He used the word play toys. He saw them as nothing more than a play toy. That's a very scary thought. Sure it is. Because that's when if you don't value life, you can do anything you want with it. If he don't value,

he doesn't value that victim's life. he'll do whatever he wants because there's no value to him. Well, and to that point, I think it's tough to value a human life if you're not seeing someone as a human. Right. You're seeing them as a piece of trash or a toy or whatever, a Big Mac rapper. Yeah. I mean, I guess you could probably go back.

I mean, that was a tough year for him, right? You know, he lost his dad. he was sexually assaulted according to him. There's a few other things that came about around that time that maybe that's what pushed him over and got him started on this. Yeah, but he was 16 years old. Why did he wait 15, 16 years? Yeah, I don't know.

That's the part I can't figure out. I get it. He went through some stuff maybe. Got it all to his head when he wanted to do. And one day he just like, boom, exploded. But it took 16 years for it to all come out. And that's what I kind of have trouble wrapping my head. around. But that's it. That's the case of Bob Berdala, the butcher of Kansas City. And he was, man,

he was an absolute terror, torturer, sexual sadist, and a butcher. Like they say, yeah, he's butchering the bodies in the basement, hanging them like deer on a rack. Yep. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out. Hi, Mike and Gibby. My name is Shay, and I live in Atlanta, and I was listening to your podcast about the armor and truck and what it would do. And actually, very recently in Atlanta, one car was, one armored car was driving, and all the cash did fall out of the back, and people, of course, were pulling over and selecting all the cash that was flying out of the car. That is normally on my commute, but of course, that day, I did not make it. So I missed out on the opportunity, but it had happened, and I don't know if they had to go back

and collect all the money, but as you know, I just wanted to call and say that it had happened, and I miss it. I hope you guys have a good day. You know the quickest way to get fired, Gibbs? leave the back door of the armored truck open. Yeah. As you're going down the road. It's not a good day.

No. It's hard to explain that when you get home to the, not home, but back to the office. Hey, uh, yeah, I left the door open and lost $800,000. I'm sorry. Interstate's backed up for 25 miles while people get out and chase all this money. I'll do better next next day. I'll try it better. Hi, and my name is Heather.

I'm calling from Houston, Texas. I just wanted to leave a voicemail. and just say I love your podcast. I've been listening since last October, and I finally caught up to the most recent episode, and I'm getting ready to start to crime all the time unsolved. And I'm just really happy that I found your podcast through a recommendation from a friend.

I just love Gabby's knowledge of his movies and his pronunciation of words. And also just you guys have great. You guys just have a great relationship. We were both funny and feed off of each other. And you also write about Texas. When it comes to the people that are on death row, we don't play around here. I'd some to let you know to keep up the good work and keep your own time ticking. Thank you. All right. Appreciate that voicemail. Yeah. Hey, when you go to listen to Unsolved, got to go out the Citra

premium. Oh, yeah. That's where they are the six months in order. Yeah, you got to start with Stitcher premium, but we got some good episodes on Unsolved. Definitely check it out. Yeah, good stuff. What's up, guys. This is Jess calling from Houston, Texas. I love the show. Listen to you guys just about every day. I was calling to give you guys a suggestion. If y'all haven't done it, the rail car killer out here in Houston, Texas, Angel Resindez. That'd be a good story for you guys to do. Pretty small, kind of lesser-known story of serial killers. It's a good one. Thanks. Love to show you guys. Y'all, good one. Yeah, so definitely on the list. A very, very bad guy. Yeah, he kind of snuck in on one of our episodes.

Yeah, related to another case, but we have not done him, but definitely on the list. Hey, Mike and Givie. This is Sheila calling something different Florida. I just want to thank you for doing such a great job, really adding a little bit of levity to kind of crazy times going on here with all the coronavirus, everyone being shut in. My dad just passed away and feeling really down in the dump and listening to the podcast today. the way you treat what could be a really gruesome subject. With that, it's the right amount of levity.

I really appreciate it. You do a great job. And thank you so much for all you do. And maybe a heads up or a face going on down front of Florida. A Theresa Siever's a one person, but it's interesting. Thank you so much. And if you're on time, take care of time. All right.

Well, we appreciate the voicemail. Sorry to hear about your dad for sure. Sucks. But we're glad that we can be of, some help. Yeah. Makes us feel good. So hang in there.

And I think, you know, not only with that, but we're all hanging in, right, with the, the coronavirus and trying to self-quarantine and just trying to keep our own time ticking, man. That's all we can do. Just life in general, man. It is. All right. Gives, we had mail bag.

Yeah. Our good friend Lisa Kura sent us a cool calendar from her horse table. Awesome. Thanks. Lisa. Very nice. And Marie Cedar sent in some Harley Chips. and some boutique popcorn.

Ooh. Well, thank you. Chicago style and bacon and cheddar. Boutique. Boutique. All right, buddy. We got to get out of here. That is it for another episode of true crime all the time.

So for Mike and Gibby. Stay safe and keep your own time ticking.