True Crime All The Time - Rod Ferrell

Episode Date: June 22, 2020

By 1996, 16-year-old Rod Ferrell was the leader of a vampire clan in Murray, Kentucky. He began telling everyone that he was a 500-year-old vampire. When his female friend in Florida began complaining about her family, Rod devised a plan to rescue her. But somewhere along the way, the plan changed to murder.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss the life and crimes of Rod Ferrell. Rod, along with fellow teenagers Scott Anderson, Dana Cooper, and Charity Keesee, drove to Florida to rescue 15-year-old Heather Wendorf. On Nov 25, 1996, Richard and Ruth Wendorf were murdered. How did this vampire clan, which started out as a role-playing game, evolve into murder? Did Heather Wendorf know that when the group rolled into town, they were planning to murder her parents? And, how did 16-year-old Rod Ferrell rise to cult-like status within the group and get others to follow his lead?You can support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationAn Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 188 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as always is my partner in true crime, Mike Gibson. How are you? I'm good, man. How about you? I'm doing very well. Yeah. Yeah, I've actually had a really good week. That's good, man. Got out on the motorcycle a little bit.

Yeah. Got some sun. So. I tell you, you got a little tan going on, man. That's the extent of my doings. But for me, that's a good week. Yeah, well, that's good. I didn't ride my motorcycle because I don't have one.

Yeah, you keep saying you're going to buy one. I know. We're going to go on the TCAT easy rider tour and then we don't do it. One of these days. You just tease me, man. I know. I do want to take a minute to thank everyone that took time out to go check out our Patreon video and audio from last week. Those of you that aren't regular Patreon members got a chance to check that out.

A lot of people did. And we truly appreciate it. Yeah, we do. Right, Gibbs, we've got to get in, man. This is a jam-packed episode. An episode that I think people are really going to like. Before we do that, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shoutouts. We had Jennifer Reeves, who jumped out to our highest level.

Hey, Jennifer. Karen Martin. What's going on, Karen? Anna Paton Blackley. Hey, Paton Blackley. Donna Butrom jumped out to our highest level. What's up, Butrom? Teresa Jennings.

Hey, Teresa. Kathleen Barron. Hey, Kathleen. Tyler Barron. Hey, thanks, Tyler. No relation. Spelled differently. Yeah.

Victoria Sesta jumped out at our highest level. Hey, Victoria. Appreciate that. Renetta Brashear. Ooh. Brashear. I remember that from that movie. Right side, left side.

Brasier. The football team? No. Denzel? Radio? No. Remember the Titans? That's it.

Okay. His name was Brasheer. So, okay, let's take a time out because you mentioned a movie last week. Yeah. I think we have a voicemail about it. Oh, good. With the right title. we'll wait till the end to talk about it.

But I got four or five emails with four or five different movies. Well, he did two movies. Tommy Lee did. The first one he did. And then he did the next one would. Both with Benicio Deltore? The second one would Benicio. The first one was he was in, you know, in the Central Park.

Oh, was that the killing of a sacred deer? Because that, see, the killing with the sacred deer is the one with Nicole. Kidman and... So many people have emailed with all kinds of different movies and only one turns out to be right and we'll talk about it at the end.

Oh, I'm all over the place, man. Yeah, we had Trevor Mickelson. Hey, Trevor. Cynthia Brown. What's going on, Sid? Tegan Ryle jumped out at our highest level. Hey, Teigen. Tyler England. What's going on, Tyler? Jenna Jay. Hey, thanks, Jenna. Nina Harris. Appreciate it, Nina.

Deniseia Riles. Hey, Deniseia. Christian Patterson. What's up, Patterson? Anastasia McCarroll. Thanks, Anastasia. Linda Milburn jumped out at our highest level. What's going on, Linda? And last but not least, Rachel Weinbarger.

Winebaga. Yep. And then if we go back into the vault. Yeah. This week, we selected Brittany Frazier. What's up, Brittany? So big shout out to her. We love all the new support to continued Patreon support.

We had some great PayPal support as well. Yeah. Gibbs Sarah Danahy made a donation for her husband, Joe's birthday. and she made it in the amount of his age, which I won't say. That was a great $120. Joe is not a hundred and twenty years old. But happy birthday, Joe. Yeah, happy birthday, Joe.

We had Melissa Worthy. Hey, Melissa. Clara Sutherland. What's going on, Clara? Roy Fulton. Hey, thanks, Roy. Gave a sizable donation. Double thank you.

And we had Marie Cox Baker. What's up, Marie. So thanks to all of you very much as well. Gibbs right now, we have an episode. on true crime all the time unsolved. It's on the mysterious death of Kendrick Johnson. Yeah. I think a lot of people may not remember the name.

They might because gained some traction here recently in the news. Sure. But this is the case of the boy that was found wrapped up in the wrestling mat. Yes. And so that may jog some people's memories. Time in Georgia. But it's a very fascinating case. And like I said,

It's heating up. It is. And has been in recent months. So I think there's going to be some movement in this case. And I think people will find it very interesting. Definitely give it a listen. All right, buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of True Crime all the time?

I am. And it's going to be a wild one as we're going to get into Rod Farrell, the teenager who led what was said to have been a vampire cult. So we've got teenagers, we've got vampires. vampires. We've got it all. And your favorite state, Kentucky. And we're in Kentucky. This is a very interesting story. I remember seeing it profiled on one of the many crime shows that I watched, you know, back in the day. And I've had it on our list to do for a long time. But a listener emailed me a while back. And you know how that goes Gibbs. That caused me to look into it. And once that happens, this is the way that it, it usually goes.

You get sucked into that research vortex. Right. And you can't get out and you know you have to do that case. And that's what happened here. So when you think about cults, there have been quite a few high profile ones, right, that most people probably think about. Right. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Manson, Heaven's Gate.

These are some very infamous cults. Some cult of personalities there. Cult of personalities, not good personality. but yeah, I get you, whose leaders masterminded a great deal of destruction. What you probably don't think of is a 16-year-old kid from Kentucky in the same way. But Rod Farrell left plenty of destruction in his wake. I had decided to take the darker path, the evil path. I found that more exciting.

And I was willing to go the distance to see what that. side out. So right off the bat, we hear from Rod Farrell short clip, but I think a good way to open the show. He's telling you, I was interested in the darker side. It fascinated me, started going down that path, and I wanted to see where it went. Then on top of that, he said, you know what? I was willing to go the distance, I think is what he said. Well, what's the distance? In this case, the distance ends in murder. Right. About as far as you can go. Roderick Justin Farrell was born on March 28th, 1980 to Sandra Gibson and Rick Farrell. Sondra and Rick were teenagers when they had Rod. Now, they did marry shortly after Rod was born, but the marriage fizzled out in a matter of weeks.

I mean, literally, I think within a couple of weeks, Rick was gone. Sondra and Rod lived with her parents in Murray, Kentucky while he was growing up as a child. Rod would later make some very interesting claims about his childhood. Pretty disturbing. Yeah. Actually, he is probably a better word for it. So he made the claim that he was exposed to the occult at a very early age. He has said that he witnessed and was a part of occult rituals.

even the human sacrifice of a woman, all performed by a group he called the black mask. He has said at the age of five, he was gang raped by members of this group in which his grandfather was involved. Really? Yeah. So he's living with his grandmother and grandfather. And he's making the claim that his grandfather was involved in this. Black mask. Yeah.

Satanic type. cult. There were human sacrifices and at one point at the age of five, he was gang raped. That's just so disturbing. And not by complete strangers, by people that his grandfather knew. And I don't know how much stock to put into his claims. That's always a caveat that we have to throw out there. Yeah, but it reminds me of that case we did, you know, where they had the families would take the infants and the little ones and trade them back and forth. All the, uh, the sex abuse case that involved multiple members of the family. I forget exactly the name of it, to be honest with you, but, but I just, that's where,

that's what it reminds me of. And I don't know how people can do that. I don't know in their minds why they think any of that's okay. Yeah, I get that, right? You and I can't come to grips and I think most people listening can't come to grips with, hurting a child, doing something sexual with a child. We just can't wrap our minds around that. You add on the layer that it's your family. Right. It's your grandson. And I think that makes it even harder to wrap your mind around. Yeah, just come on over everybody. My grandson's five today and

we're going to do our ritual. And he's going to be involved. Yeah. It's just, when we're all done, Sally's got some veggie trays for everybody to eat if you want to hang around. I mean, I don't get it. I mean, I don't understand. No, you're trying in your head to visualize how this would go. Yeah. And you can't do it. Because it's so sick. Rod got into the game Dungeons and Dragons at an early age. A game that I know, a lot of kids

that played back in the day. A lot of kids that I knew played that game. Sure. I was never a big fan of it. But I had friends that would spend all night playing that kind of bored role playing game. Right. It was a lot of work. And that's why I wasn't a big fan of it. I was more a fan of Atari. You know, you just stuck the cartridge in and just bounce that ping back and forth. Yeah, breakout or whatever. Later he got into a game called Vampire the Masquerade. So this was another role playing game. But in this one, Gibbs, apparently you take on the role of a vampire and the game involves acting out various scenarios that a vampire would find him or

herself in, I guess. I'm not sure if you would call it larping exactly. You know what larping is? Larping. Live action role play. Yeah. I don't know if you would call it that. It's definitely role playing. But from what I gathered, you're playing out scenarios with other live people that involve acts of vampireism. So I don't know. Are you sucking blood? Are you doing this? Are you doing that?

Doing something. Doing something. Seems pretty extreme from a board game that you might be able to buy at a hobby shop store or, you know, somewhere like that. I just wonder how you explain that coming home, you know, about the little holes in your neck, you know? Hey, mom, dad. I'm back.

Yeah, I know there's some droplets of blood coming out of my neck. Just did some. vampire role play tonight. It was fun. Yeah, well, we're going to talk about how maybe Rod didn't have to explain anything because I don't think he was under what you would call supervision. No, I don't think they cared what kind of larping he did. If it was larping.

His mother especially, and we'll get into that. So he's delving into this vampire world, as are a lot of his friends, a lot of the people that he's hanging out with. He was apparently sired or crossed over. These are the two words that are two terms that I kept seeing over and over as a vampire by one of his friends, a kid named Stephen Murphy. And the process is pretty much what you would think it would be. It involves the sucking of blood.

As you can imagine, a vampire ritual would. At some point, Rod began telling people that he was a 500-year-old, He began drinking the blood of others and allowing others to drink his blood. You know, pretty much a normal Saturday night in small town USA. Yeah. Come on, guys. I got my blood ready for you. I won't have a drink.

No. So we're in the 90s, right? The story that we're talking about right now, we're in the 90s. I was no longer in high school in the 90s, but, well, I was, I graduated in 91. I'm pretty sure that there. was nobody in my school, at least that I was aware of, that was having these blood-sucking parties. Now, we had some other type of parties that I won't mention, but it's just not something that I ever heard about. And it was a small town. I probably would have known if something like

that was going down. I think Rod began to transform in his mind into this 500-year-old vampire. And I guess Gibbs, when you look at it, when you're a 500-year-old vampire, school's probably not that important to you. It certainly was not important to Rod Farrell. He pretty much didn't want to have anything to do with it. You know, when he was in school, it was said that he was very belligerent with teachers. I bet. He disregarded all the rules.

He smoked when he wanted to smoke, skipped class when he wanted to skip. What are you going to do to me? I'm a 500 year old vampire. Yeah. Don't make me do what I can. He also got pretty heavily into drugs. And I'm not talking about, you know, smoking a little bit of pot here and there. He has said in himself that he got into the hard stuff.

The Coke? Crank. PCP. Oh, heroin. And even heroin. Yeah. Whatever he could get his hands on. But, you know, at a certain point, it was the harder, the better.

Rod did move to Florida for a short period of time. but by 1995, he was back in Murray, Kentucky with his mother. Probably too much sun down there. For a vampire, I would think. You know what? This is way too much son. I got to get back where it's not as sunny. I actually never thought about it that way.

Yeah. So I do think it's important to talk about the role of Rod's mother, Sondra, here in this case. I kind of foreshadowed it, right? I don't think he had a lot of supervision. I got the sense from various reports that she wasn't the type of. of mom to really put boundaries on him to pull in the reins. It sounds like she was pretty hands off and let Rod do pretty much whatever he wanted to do. I mean, he was out at all hours of the night walking through cemeteries, carrying on vampire rituals with his group of friends.

I'm not sure how I would have been able to do those things at 14, 15, 16 years old without getting into some sort of trouble. That wouldn't happen to my house. No. You know, I'm not saying my mom was super strict, but, you know, you were expected to be home by a certain time. There was no, you know, yeah, if you want to go out to the cemetery at 3 o'clock in the morning, fine.

We'll be in bed. Just make sure you get home at some point. There was none of that. No, that wasn't going to happen. It was never going to fly. And if you, go enjoy yourself. And if you did try to make it fly, there was going to be a belt. at some point.

Yeah. And nobody wanted that. Wasn't going to be good. And Gibbs, I think you could take the things that Rod has said about his childhood, especially some of the acts committed by this group, his grandfather was in, as the talk of a man who had been caught, right? And he's now trying to mitigate his circumstances. But there is some hard evidence that his mother was involved in this vampire lifestyle, too,

in 1997, she pleaded guilty to trying to solicit sex with a 14-year-old boy in one of these crossing over rituals to make him a vampire. So runs in a family, basically, the child abuse. Yeah, I don't know. There is a lot going on here. Yeah. Now, she ended up with only probation and a requirement to seek counseling. but apparently the authorities found a bunch of love letters that she had written to this kid,

which included her talking about wanting him to cross her over, and then they could be vampire husband and wife. Now, I said she had Rod when she was a teenager, but she's in her 30s. She wants to be with another teenager. A 14 year old. Yeah, younger than her son.

So I bring it up because, you know, not to really shame her or anything, but to set the picture of this kid's childhood, obviously there was a lot going on. Does what his mother did, Lynn credence to what he said happened when he was a kid. Maybe, maybe not. I don't think it proves anything. But I think it makes people ask some hard questions.

So back to Rod. He began to seek control over this group of vampism. And I'm using the word vampires and quotation marks. You are, you are. But, you know, he wanted to be a leader. That's what he wanted. He did. He wanted to control people.

And really, when you boil it down, isn't that what a cult leader kind of is? Yeah. Right? They want the control. They crave it. They, they like it when people look up to them and they listen to what they have to say, hang on their every word, become deviant. voted to them.

And how do you do that? Well, I think most people throughout history have done it through, if you want to call it brainwashing. Yeah. You could call it that. Now, what Rod did was he really got into the area of psychology. And I think that has been something that a lot of cult leaders have done as well, playing on a combination of psychology and fear.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. I think fear drives a big part of it. that. So he went to the library. Rod did. And he began reading psychology books, basically trying to figure out the best way to control people. He even sat in on some psychology classes at Murray State University, go racers. Is that what they are? Yeah, the Murray State Racers. I think that's right. I don't know. Because every now and then they make it in the tournament. And that's the only reason I know what these teams are called. But speaking of brainwashing, let's hear a clip from Rod.

Mainly I used a lot of psychology. Being in the college town, I took the liberty to go to their library, study psychology, sometimes set in on their lectures, and attempt to get a better grasp on the human mind. I've used different techniques of what I suppose might still be considered brainwashing or mind altercation, low protein diets mantras, sensory deprivations, things such as that. And really, I just tried to immerse myself in their psyches so that they viewed me as a deity-like figure. All right.

I think he was being pretty honest there. He was telling you how he did it, how he set out to go about doing this. Low protein. Yeah, I didn't understand that. Also, he said mind altercation. Right. Isn't an altercation like when you get into a fight? But you do it with your mind instead.

I think he meant something different. Remember that movie with dinner or schmucks? Oh, was that Paul Rudd and Steve Karel? And the guy from up on the rooftop, Bachelor Party thing. Up on the rooftop, Bachelor Party thing. Yeah. Zach Gaffa. Galfanacus?

Yeah. Yeah, that was the dinner. Shmuck. Are you talking about the hangover? Hangover. That's it. Up on the rooftop, Bachelor party thing.

Well, technically you're correct, but it seemed like there would have been the easier way to get to that. But remember the mind altercations that they had during that,

it was good. You know, that's one of those movies where I'm sure it didn't score well, but I'll sit and watch it. Now, at the same time, I think Rod was also

studying books on vampires and witches. He was basically trying to gain knowledge to help pump himself, up as the leader of this cult that came to be known as the vampire clan. Some acquaintances of rods would later tell investigators that he could be scary. He tortured animals and he often talked of killing people that he didn't like. And I'm leaving the tortured animals pretty vague.

Right. There are some specifics around that that get extremely gruesome. So I'll just leave it vague and people will, you know, get the picture. picture. Hey, T-Cat fans, did you know your phone is 10 times dirtier than a toilet seat? That's a little scary. Now more than ever, it's important to keep items like your phone clean, because if your phone isn't clean, your hands won't be either. Holmetic's UV clean phone sanitizer kills up to 99.9% of bacteria and viruses at the DNA level using no harmful chemicals or liquids. It sanitizes and disinfects both sides of your phone 10 times faster than other products on the market.

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code T-CAT. Make sure your business is ready to meet the demands of delivery culture. Get started at shipstation.com today. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in T-Cat. That's shipstation.com. Then enter offer code T-Cat, T-C-C-A-T-T-T-T-Ship.com. Make ship happen. So it's 1996 and Rod Farrell is 16 years old. He had been keeping up communication with a girl he had met in Florida during that short period of time, you know, when he lived there. The girl was a 15 year old named Heather Windorf. Heather later told investigators that she didn't fit in at school.

You know, she wore kind of all black. She dyed her hair, different colors. She found it hard to make friends. But when she met Rod, I think she kind of saw a kindred spirit, right? This is a guy that is kind of a loner, is walking his own path, maybe, doesn't care what other people think. Yeah, he's definitely doing his own thing. So she found in him somebody to talk to.

And I think they hit it off. So he's back in Kentucky. She's in Florida, but they wrote letters to each other. They talked on the phone. one month they talked so much that Rod's mom got a bill for over $1,000. Back in the day when you had to pay for long distance. Yeah, when you had to pay for long distance. I think at that point, the phone gets shut off pretty quickly.

Not too many people would be hyped to pay $8,000 phone bill. But it was over a period of time through various means of communication that Heather Windorf began telling Rod how much she hated her parents. She wanted to be free from them. She even said that her parents were abusing her. Now, this is what Rod would later say. Of course. But over a number of months during 1996,

Rod and a few members of his clan, Heather Windorf, and Heather's best friend, Jeanette, began making some plans. The plan was that Rod and his group would come to Florida to rescue Heather from her family. And then they would all run away together as some big happy group. That was the plan.

That's the master plan there. The master plan. And they set a time frame. The plan was to happen sometime in November of that year. And it did because on November 24th, 1996, Rod Farrell rolled into Florida along with three other teenagers from his clan, 19 year old. Dana Cooper, 16-year-old Scott Anderson, and 16-year-old Charity Kesey, who I believe was Rod's girlfriend at the time.

Did they all get out of the car with those long black trench coats and look like they were from the Matrix? I don't know if they all wore trench coats, but I definitely know Rod had the real long black hair. Yeah. I'm trying to remember. I did see pictures of some of the other ones, but he, he. He looked apart. Yeah.

For sure. They all stayed with one of Rod's Florida friends as they made the final preparations to spring Heather Windorf. But Gibbs the very next day, Heather Windorf's parents would be dead. And I think one very important thing to get into is the role of Heather Windorf. We'll probably talk about that, you know, at various points in the episode. It will be hotly debated by the press and the public. The day of the murders, Rod and Heather went to a cemetery where Rod crossed over Heather Windorf into the vampire world. So they drank each other's blood, whatever the ceremony was. She's now a vampire

in this vampire clan. But it's at the cemetery that Heather says she heard Rod Farrell talk for the first time about killing her parents. Because according to her, they've been talking for months and months and months putting this plan together. Right. At no point in time was killing her parents a part of the plan. She's like, this is the first time I've ever heard of this. Yes. She would later say that Rod said killing her parents would make it easier for them to run away.

But Heather is adamant and remains adamant that she did not want her parents to be hurt in any way. And she told Rod this. She apparently even had a phone conversation. with her boyfriend about this and relate all of this to him. Don't want them dead. Do not kill them. Or hurt them or anything. Anything.

That's what she has always maintained. And like I said, all of this will become very important later in answering the question. You know, what role did Heather play in the murder of her parents? If she played any role at all, it was Rod Farrell and Scott Anderson, who,

went to Heather's parents home that night. They entered through the garage. They rooted around in the garage for a while, looking for weapons. Rod found a crowbar. Then they entered the house, and it was in the living room where they encountered Richard Windorf. He was on the couch. Rod Farrell beat him to death with the crowbar.

So I had the thing propped up ready. Just if he came at me, I was going to slug the fuck out of him. So what happened is he did turn around and started to get back up so then I did wheylay his ass and I didn't stop because he was still like breathing stuff. I just kept beating him and beating him and beating him and beating him and beating him. Taking pleasure in it with that. And he was up, he was sitting up or laying down when this was happening? No, after I wait laid him, he got unconscious.

Laying right there in the couch? Because it was as he started to turn around, I saw he was coming out and I was going Boom. Right across the temple of the head. It knocked him cold. And while he was cold, I figured, now or never, because if he gets up, I'm a fucking dead motherfucker. So I just beat him until he died.

Then... Did you strike him anywhere else with the crowbar just in the head? I striked him once in the chest because he wouldn't stop breathing, so I stabbed him in the heart. You stabbed him in the heart? I took the bottom of the crowbar. It's black. Up the straight end of it?

So, obviously that's right. talking to investigators later on after he's captured. But I think now's the time to play it, right? Because he's describing these actions he took in killing Richard Windorf. Man, kind of sends a little chills up the spine because the way he talks about it. First of all, he sounds like Samuel L. Jackson in a Quentin Tarantino movie. He's dropped about, you know, 15 F bombs there in a short amount of time. But he's very.

very laid back, Gibbs. And I don't know if that's the right word in describing what he did. Obviously, no remorse, right? He's not crying. He's not blubbering. He's not saying, oh, I can't believe I did this. And really investigators would say that he pretty much bragged about what he did. It's all he was bragging right there. Yeah. And, you know, and I'm only playing short snippets of the interview. I think he giggles in certain parts of it. You just get the sense that this is a kid who knows what he did. He can describe it in detail. And it's like it was no big thing to him.

So I'd listen to that. I can remember what he looked like back then with that really bad hairstyle, the long hair, the jet black hair and how he shaved it in certain spots. There are some very iconic pictures of him. Yeah, that we'll talk about a little bit later. Ruth had just gotten out of the shower and she was drinking a cup of coffee. When she encountered Rod Farrell, they struggled. She fought back pretty hard.

She scratched his face. She poured hot coffee all over him. But he was able to kick her to the ground and then he proceeded to beat her to death with the crowbar. She like started to lunge him. She spilled her. on me, went all over me, and then she clawed my face and grabbed my wrist. And that's when I took the straight end of the girl bar and just started bashing in the back her head.

So she was running away from you when this was happening? She was holding on to me. Okay. She had her fingernails embedded in my skin. Until she let go, I was going to beat the fuck out of her. And finally, where'd you hit her first, then back of the head or in front of her? You said? Right there?

I only hit her once right there. All the rest of the time was back here. you'll notice in the pictures the big hole. I haven't seen him, yeah. Okay. But anyway, and then the hot coffee started stinging, sort of pissed me off. So I just played out, gave a Crescent kick,

kicked her on the ground, and then continued to beat her there until she stopped breathing. Well, he definitely belongs where he's at. I mean, Gibbs, it's like he's recounting a little league game. Yeah. Oh, man, I had this great single in the second inning.

And then in the fifth inning, you know, I hit a home run. I made a diving catch. It's almost like he's he's telling these investigators. Proud of it. The details. And you're right. He's proud of it. Yeah, man.

You see the back. You should see the back of her head. The hot coffee pissed me off. Yeah. Well, you are trying to kill someone. Yeah. What did you think? I just.

And then I think what really gets me and people probably heard it, but it's very quick. at the end of one of the sentences, he scoffs. It's like a it's like a scoff slash laugh. You can hear it. But it's very telling in the context of this interview. He went on to tell authorities that, quote, her face looked like a rubber mask. It didn't even look real. Her head, her brains were just oozing out of her skull.

To feel that fact that I was taking a life because that's just like the old. philosophy about if you can take a life, you become a god for a split second. It actually kind of felt that way for a minute. But if I was a god, I wouldn't exactly be here. Now, would I? I don't even know what to say to that. Well, so obviously he's confessed to the murders. You know, it's, you know, I think, and we'll get into it, but they all kind of play dumb for a little while, but eventually all these people are going to confess to their role. And after that point, I think he was resigned to the fact that he was going to tell all and he was going to take some sort of enjoyment in recounting what he did. Well, I think in his mind, this was his time too

for attention. Right. I mean, he was going to, I think, sell this the best way he could. But to say that you felt like a God in those minutes because you played God, right? You took a life. Yeah. Is essentially what he's saying. Sure. It's tough, I think, for most people to believe that someone could actually think that, feel that, and, you know, almost revel in what they did, taking, you know, another human being's life.

You know, after doing 300-something podcast with you, I don't think it's that uncommon. No, and that's sad. You know, it's, you're right. It's sad. I mean, we do some cases where there are people that I do think are genuinely remorseful. Yes, I agree. For what they did, it doesn't mean they still shouldn't be held accountable and have to serve whatever sentence they get.

But there seems to be a lot of people that have no remorse whatsoever. ever. And especially when you get into the area of serial killers. Now, this guy wasn't a serial killer, but I mean, I think that's part of what makes them who they are, right? They don't have the remorse. They don't have the empathy for other people. So it's much easier to walk into somebody's home, murder them in cold blood, and then go back home and maybe eat dinner with your family or whatever. after the murders, Rod and Scott searched for cash and other items in the house, pretty much anything that they could steal, anything they felt they needed. They also grabbed Richard's credit card from his wallet and the keys to the couple's Ford Explorer. They took off in the Explorer and they met up with Heather and the rest of their friends and took off.

The very next day, the Wendorf's other daughter, 17-year-old Jennifer, came. home from work to find her parents dead. Very tough, Gibbs to imagine finding your parents dead like that, right? In that way. And on top of that, the fact that your sister was missing because you have no idea what happened to her. So Jennifer found her father. His face was pretty much unrecognizable on the family room sofa.

She found her mother face down in a pool of blood. the kitchen. Police found a V with circular marks around it burned into the chest of Richard Windorf. I don't know how they did it, but I'm picturing like a brand, right? You're heating up something and you're pressing it against this person's skin. Authorities later said it was the sign of Rod Farrell's vampire clan. The V was. And then that the circles represented the clan members. So each circle represented a different member of the clan. But I didn't find a lot of information on it. I don't know how they built it or made it.

But they had it. But they had it and they obviously had it for a reason ahead of time. They put some thought into it. And there were probably people that, you know, have looked at that fact alone and thought, okay, maybe that helps explain just when exactly this decision was made that Heather's parents were going to be killed. It wasn't made when they pulled up to the house. No.

It's not like they fashioned whatever they used while they were sitting in their car. It was made ahead of time, I'm sure. Well, they're pretty ruthless, actually. Yeah, this is very ruthless. And remember, these are young teenagers. Yeah. You know, these aren't, uh, grizzled war veterans that did, you know, multiple tours and NOM and have seen this, this and this.

these are, you know, 16-year-old kids. I think it, you know, you have to put it in that perspective. It adds something to it for me. To think that a kid that young could do this. Now,

should anyone do it? No, we know that. But I think they were just so heavily desensitized between what happened to him, if you believe him as a child, and then how they really took the role playing Pretty extensive.

Well, yeah. So there's some gray area there, right? Obviously, this started out pretty much from a role playing game. Yeah. The way that I understand it. But obviously, Rod took it in a different direction. Things started to become more real. He wanted them to be more real.

He didn't want this just to be a game. I think he wanted it to be a lifestyle. and he wanted to be the leader. He wanted all these people to look up to him, to follow him. Sure. It's for that to happen. He had to go big or go home. Right.

He had to show lead. And I think this is what he thought he needed to do to get that reputation. I think there's a, there's something to that because outside of that, there really was no reason to kill the windows. No. They could have gone in. If they needed money,

they could have tied them up, stolen a credit card. They could have taken the Ford Explorer. Right. They didn't need to kill them in the vicious way that they did. So there was a reason for that. They were going to leave anyway. So whether the Windorf's are looking for Heather or the police, which you know eventually you're going to find out,

are looking for you. You would think you'd rather have the former. Yeah, I think that goes along with, you know, when you put your mark on somebody, you're trying to just send that message. Like, this is what we do. We come in, we do this. We're even to leave our mark on you.

So the group was headed to New Orleans in the Windorf's Ford Explorer. They used Richard's credit card to buy gas along the way. Now, I've seen some varying reports of why they were headed to New Orleans. One report said that Rod liked a specific video arcade down there. And he wanted to go see it or wasn't cafe Dumond. No. Okay. No, I got to the sense that it was a video arcade.

Maybe the chicory coffee. No, that's a reason to want to go to New Orleans. The other report that I saw is that they were hoping to meet Anne Rice, the author of the vampire chronicles that was later turned into a movie interview with a vampire. And I think it was even turned into some other movies as well. It was a series of books, right, the vampire chronicles. And for anybody that's seen that movie, I mean, obviously it's vampire heavy. It's, it's all about vampires and that life. And it really is.

She wrote a number of other books about vampires as well. So I see where the theory comes from, right? She was probably a big deal in, you know, these kids lives. They had probably read all her books. Probably thought she'd understand them. Yeah, maybe. But I don't know what the truth is about why they picked New Orleans. There's a couple of theories out there.

But once they got to Louisiana, Charity Kesey made a phone call to a relative asking for money. The relative reached out to authorities and really gives from there. It didn't take them long to set up something. you know, some sort of sting and arrest everyone in Baton Rouge. I think everyone, including Rod, like I said, they, they played dumb at first. Now, what he did is he tried to blame the murders on his vampire rival. So not only is he the leader of this vampire clan in Murray, Kentucky. Hmm.

He has a rival. He's got a rival clan out there. Yeah. Yeah. The sharks? The Jets. Or is it Jets? No.

But eventually. Eventually, everyone caved and admitted to police what happened. Scott Anderson told detectives that the original plan was for him to kill Ruth, but he couldn't do it. So Rod stepped in and killed her. Heather told investigators she didn't know anything about the murders until they were on the drive to New Orleans. And she was shocked to hear her parents had been killed. she said at that point she didn't know what else to do but to run away with the group who was she going to go home to right and if she did go home she felt as though police would think she killed them

yeah this is what she told investigators but again gibbs like i said all of this stuff from heather you know this is what is heavily scrutinized over the years and you know we're going to find out why that is in a minute. After the arrests, papers started printing the story all over the country about what had happened. It was a very sensational story, right? You're talking about teenage vampires committing murder. Right. You're telling me, you see that on the front page, you're not going to want to, you know, take a gander and see what the heck that's all about. Especially him and his haircut, man. I'm telling you, the way his hair look, it got attention. Because, you know, speaking of that, they did dig up a bunch of old pictures of Rod.

There was one where he was hanging upside down like a bat. There's one of him shirtless in a Dr. Seuss hat. That's very strange with his long hair, you know, hanging down from the hat. And then I think, you know, after the arrest and, you know, as you get a little bit further on, they started plastering more recent pictures of him. that's where you get into the kind of classic he's in the the red and white striped jumpsuit orange and white probably he's got that jet black hair very long yep and like you said he did start to shave it you know at some point it was like it covered half his face which made it look even

more strange yeah it was just bizarre man so i mentioned that rod talked about this rival and he really went into detail in an interview with the Orlando Sentinel, he said he knew for certain that it was a rival vampire cult that killed the Windorf, but he said the cult was run by his former friend turned enemy, Stephen Murphy. And if you remember, Stephen is the one that crossed over Rod. Yeah. So really brought him into this vampire world. Now he just sold him out for trying to sell them out. Gives, I mean, how many different vampire cults are out there running around at this time in Murray, Kentucky, this small town of about, you know, 16, 17,000 people? Clearly too many. Clearly too many. So Murray's not far from the Tennessee border. It's actually

pretty close to Union City. Yeah. Where Stephen Ray Thacker was arrested in last week's episode. It's also not very far from Fort Campbell. Well, right there is just a, you know, triangle of badness. Yeah, over there where we did the case with Krista Bramlett. Yeah, and I didn't do that on purpose, right? It just happens to be that Murray, Kentucky is kind of between, a little bit, between Fort Campbell and Union City. So there's a tie-in to both the T-Cat and the T-Cat.

unsolved that we did last week. It's very strange. It is very strange. That whole area right there must be just, uh, I don't know. No, that's great people there too. I'm just saying, do not cast a shadow. No, no, I'm just saying they just has some bad mojo there for a little bit at one point. Well, related to these cases for sure. In this same interview, Farrell said that he had multiple personalities. And he also said he had what he called special blackout moments. Oh, I call those convenient blackout moments. He was analyzed by a number of mental health professionals. I think most of them came out and said that they didn't believe he had multiple personalities.

I read somewhere Gibbs where it said less than 0.01% of the population has multiple personalities. Less than? Yeah. Hmm. So I'm in that mix. There's a got me. Yeah. There's not a lot of people.

people that that suffer from from that. And they got Rex and that other guy. Well, is that a, those multiple personalities or you just like to dress up in fancy costumes and make side money? I don't know if that's the same thing, man. I would consider it both, but the money is good. Now, for the record, Stephen Murphy did respond to Rod Farrell's claims that he was the one that actually committed the murders or his group did.

he called the claims humorous, which I thought was a strange word to use, probably not the word that I would use. Not the word I would use either. I don't know that it's funny that somebody is accusing you of murder, although as a vampire, his vocabulary may not be that extensive. I don't know. Rod and Scott were charged with murder and Dana and Charity were charged with being principles to murder.

It's not a term that I, that I hear a lot. lot, there were also a number of other charges thrown in for everyone as well, burglary and accessory after the fact. There was a whole laundry list of charges. Two different grand juries refused to indict Heather Windorf on any criminal charges related to the death of her parents. So she was charged, but the grand jury felt as though she shouldn't be taken to trial. And again, this is where some of the speculation comes in. How much did she know? How truthful was she? Right. In February 1998, Rod Farrell pleaded guilty to two charges of first degree murder. So I think they were getting ready to take him to trial. They might have even been in the beginning stages of it. And then all of a sudden he said, you know what? I don't want to go through all this. I'm going to plead guilty. The evidence against him was overwhelming. You know, they had the confession.

part of which we listened to. I mean, those enough would probably have done him in. But they had DNA evidence, tying him to the crime scene as well. I think they had fingerprint evidence. They had some forensic stuff. Pretty solid case. And they had the statements from the others involved. Really, the big thing then became, okay, is he going to get life or is he going to get death?

because the prosecutors were seeking the death penalty. And that's ultimately what he got. You know, when it was all said and done, he was sentenced to die. And he was shipped off to death row to await his date with old Sparky because that's what they were using. Good old Sparky. Yep. Still using the electric chair at that time.

At the time, he was the youngest person on death row in the United States. Oh, he was pretty young. Yeah. I mean, he committed the murders at 16. So even by the time he was convicted and shipped off to death row, he's still very young. Yeah. But Rod would never sit in old sparky because in 2005, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the execution of juveniles was cruel and unusual punishment. So Farrell was resentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

Right. Scott Anderson pleaded guilty to the murders and received a life sentence with. without the possibility of parole. His sentence was later reduced to 40 years, and he'll actually be eligible for parole in 2031. Oh, yeah. So about that. Coming to a city near you.

And coming probably sooner than we think. Yeah. Especially for me and you, because time seems to go very quickly. Dana Cooper pleaded guilty to reduce charges and received a sentence of 17 and a half years in prison. Yeah. She served almost 13 years for her crimes

and was released. in 2011. So she's already back in society has been for about nine years now. Yeah. Well, she paid her price. So. Yeah, she did. And she did not kill anyone.

Now, she was with the group, how much she was involved in the planning and all that. Obviously, she was because 17 and a half years is no joke. No, that's a long time. And I think even to serve 13 of 17 and a half.

That's no joke either. 13 years of your life is a very long time. That's definitely a percentage of your life. Well, I'm pretty sure it's a percentage of everyone's life or any amount of time you do is going to be a percentage of your life. That is true. You're killing me, small. For that, you get the, you're killing me, smells. Oh, man.

What you do that to me for? Charity Kesey pleaded guilty to two reduced counts of principle to third degree murder. In one count each, a principal to armed robbery. In all, she received sentences of 10 and a half years in prison. But she was released in March of 2006 after serving almost eight years of her sentence. So, I mean, if you look at it Gibbs, these people definitely did not get away. No, they did not. Right.

They did serious time for the crimes they were involved in. Now, I'm sure that you could pull some of the. family members and they would say, well, they didn't do enough. I'm sure that some family members would would feel that way. Farrell's attorney appealed his life sentence based on a 2016 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that said a mandatory life sentence without the possibility of parole for a juvenile is cruel and unusual punishment. So two different rulings, right? 2005, they say execution of a juvenile, cruel and unusual. 2016, they're saying mandatory life sentence without parole, cruel and unusual.

Now, it doesn't mean that he wouldn't remain in jail for the rest of his life. The court just said that that type of mandatory sentence as he received is not right. So a judge would have to decide, once again, the fate of Rod Farrell. It's not like they were going to let him out, but. he was going to be resentenced. He was back in court in November of 2019. So not too long ago to testify. He apologized to the families of his victims. He said, quote, I know nothing I say or do can bring them back. I hope you know just how truly sorry I am. Gibbs of families were not impressed. And really frankly, they came right out and told the papers that they didn't want to hear anything.

that Rod Farrell had to say, even if it was an apology, because they didn't believe. No. Well, and we know he read all those books and, you know, sure, why he's been sitting there, he read some more and how can I come across and how can I? Right. Obviously, I didn't come across well in my interrogation videos because I laughed, I smirked. I was, you know, kind of basically bragging about my crimes. Maybe I should switch it up and do something a little different.

and show a little bit of remorse, the judge rendered his decision in April of this year. So this is very recent that things are happening in this case. And the judge ruled that Farrell would get no relief because, as the judge put it, he was irreparably corrupt. And that was really the thing about the U.S. Supreme Court ruling. They wanted judges to take a look at each case and say, say, okay, don't just make it a mandatory life sentence without parole. Take into account, you know, is this person salvageable? And I don't think that's the right word, but can they

reform? Can they change their ways? And maybe many years down the road have a chance to contribute to society. This judge is saying, no, you're gone. You're beyond hope. I mean, think about how he describe what he did. Yeah. And I, and I'm sure that's what the judge was basing his opinion on. Unapologetic. Actually proud of what he did in those clips. But from what I could tell, it's not 100% official yet because of, you know, the COVID-19 outbreak and everything that has happened to the court system. Farrell has the right to be present in court. That hasn't happened yet as far as I could tell. So even though the judge has already ruled, I don't think it's official, but I think it's just a matter of time. But gives to me, I think one of the big questions, and I've mentioned it already

in this case, is that many people still are not sure about Heather's role in the murder of her parents. You know, did she really have no idea that they were going to be murdered? Or did she just say that after the fact to try to get out of trouble. I believe that Rod Farrell, even though he initially said that it was Heather who asked him to kill her parents, has said more recently that she didn't know anything about it until after the murders happened. Heather tried to stay out of the press, out of the limelight as much as possible, something you would want to do, right? Right. This is not a case where you really are. wanting to try to publicize yourself.

She did do an interview with the Orlando Sentinel in 2006. She was married by that time and had moved to North Carolina. In the interview, she said she wished she had known how to stop Rod Farrell, but she didn't. She said, I regret that I was paralyzed with fear. You can't really anticipate what you're going to do and how you're going to deal with the situation. if you've never been in anything like that before.

She talked about the fact that she didn't really hate her parents, although the papers made a big deal of that. Sure. And when they did, when all of that came out in the media, most of the rest of her family turned against her. They didn't want anything to do with her because they felt as though she had some type of involvement, I think.

Right. So she ended up living with foster parents until she was old enough to move out on her own. One of her and her sister ever. I never found anything about it. Yeah. And so I'm kind of making the conclusion that they didn't. Probably didn't.

Because I know the majority of her family pretty much turn their back on her. And her sister would have been old enough probably to take her. By the time she was, you know, went through the grand jury. Oh, yeah. Her sister probably would have been 18 pretty soon. By then, yeah. So that leads me to believe her sister probably didn't want anything to do with her either. I'm just, you know, it's something that she's going to, you know, if she didn't do it, if she didn't have any saying to it, then she'll be okay.

But if she did, she'll have to answer for that sometime. I mean, it's her conscious. She has to live with that. She has to have that battle every day in her head if she feels guilty for any reason. Yeah, and I really don't know the. the answer. I mean, if you look at everything she said, and if you look at the things Rod has said most recently, you would have to make the determination that she didn't if those things were true. And you want to believe that, but it's not like it's coming from the best source.

No, because she would have a vested interest in not disclosing the fact that she knew about it or sanctioned it or was okay with it. But you could see a scenario. where she says, okay, help me get out of my house. She thinks these people are coming. They're all going to jump in a car and head somewhere. Right. But then all of a sudden her parents are murdered. And she's like, what the hell do I do?

Right. So I can see that. I can see how it could play out that way. Having said that, I think to this day, there are many people that still think she had a bigger rolling. it than what she has said. And even the judge most recently in Farrell's appeal, I think he told the prosecutors that they should look again at Heather Windorf. Because obviously he was privy to some good information. True. So for him to make that comment,

which I did see he made that comment, that tells you something. No matter what, at the end of the day, this is a very tragic case on multiple levels. Obviously, two people lost their lives. Right. That's tragic. You look at Jennifer. She lost her parents. Heather lost her parents.

If she didn't have anything to do with that. Right. All of that's tragic. She lost her family. And then you look at the people that are in prison or went to prison. They were 16, 17, 19 years old. old. Yeah.

To go to prison for life at 16. Be rough. That is. I mean, to go to prison for life at any age is rough. But, and then even, you know, you look at Dana Cooper. I think she was 19, got out when she was 32. Imagine losing 19 to 32 of your life. Yeah.

Just look back at all the things that happened between the time you were 19 and 32 years old. You miss all that. Now, she shouldn't have done what she did, right? She shouldn't have played the part that she did. She did her time. I have no idea what she's up to. I don't know what chastity's up to at this point. But they did serve their debt to society and they paid the price for what they did.

So hopefully they're out there living clean lives and building something because they're still not that old. No. In the grand scheme of things. Change your name. Move on, I guess. But for sure, Rod Ferry. should spend the rest of his life in jail. In my opinion.

Yeah. When I get it, he was only 16 years old, but when you hear those tapes, that doesn't sound like any 16 year old I've ever known. No, something's not right there. And Scott Anderson definitely played a major role in the murders as well. So, you know, I'm okay with his sentence, even with it being reduced to 40 years. 40 years is a very long time. But tragic, all the way around.

It really was. Nobody wins in these scenarios. It just doesn't happen. But that's it for the case of Rod Farrell and what people call the vampire clan. I don't know how much of a clan it was. I don't know how many people, you know, were in this quote unquote cult. It definitely wasn't Jonestown, right? There were a handful of people.

There wasn't a thousand people. But he held sway. he held dominion over these people, tried to. We got some voicemails. You want to check those out? Let's hear those. Hey, guys. This is Tyler from Fiside, Florida.

And just a little, I wanted to call and let you guys know. This is probably going to be a rambling message. But just joined Patreon, been listening since I think November at work. And just finally got called up to 2020 and have listened to the first few episodes of 2020. And you guys are way too positive for what's coming. So I figured it was about time for me to start. showing them I have a little bit of money for all the good content that you guys put out. Now that I'm almost caught up, I'm looking forward to jumping over to Unsolved.

And just a little trivia question, if Gibby can let anybody know what film was filmed in Seaside, Florida. And I'll give him a hint. It was Jim Carrey was in it. But I get to see his house and all the scenes for the movie just about every day. But anyway, just want to let you guys know how much I appreciate what y'all do. and y'all are doing a great job and just keep getting better and better. And I'm proud to support y'all. Thanks, bye.

Well, thank you so much. We appreciate that. So, yeah, I'm sure we were very positive in early 2020. Yeah. Having no idea what was coming. So it probably does sound strange when people go back and listen to it. Now, as far as this trivia question. Truman.

Ooh, that was not what I was thinking. And I purposefully did not look this up because I wanted to be able to guess as well. Oh, I was hoping you even know what the answer. That's actually a very good guess. I was going more Ace Ventura and or mask. Oh, yeah. The mask. The mask, not mask, because that was a totally different movie.

The mask. But I don't know. We'll look it up after, but I'm sure people will email too to play along. Yeah. That's actually fun when somebody sends in a little trivia question. I'm not going to look it up. So make sure you email Mike with the answer. Well, here's the thing.

He has been in a ton of movies. He has. I mean, you could go eternal sunshine of the spotless mine, whatever that. Yeah. I'm thinking that was California, but it could have been. I don't know. Hmm. Yeah.

There's a lot. Yeah. Hi, guys. My name is Belitrix. I'm calling from Boston. And I'm an attorney. I just wanted to let you know that I love your podcast. I recently got into them and I absolutely love them.

I love the banter between you guys. But I love the fact that you guys really research the cases. and it's been a difficult time not only with quarantine, but I was recently diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And I like the fact that you guys don't really vilify anyone with, you know, mental health issues. And that's great because, you know, I don't want to feel like I'm crazy or anything, especially because I'm not a serial killer or mass murderer.

But, you know, something like bipolar disorder really is vilified. And the common person doesn't really know much. about it. So thanks a lot for helping me through this really weird, emotional time. And yeah, that's it. All right. Have a good one. Bye. Belitrix. Yeah. Like the Harry Potter. I love that name. So I think gives that something that you and I try to do. We give the facts of the case. So, you know, if it's reported that, let's say a killer is diagnosed with this, this or this, we want to give those facts because it's important to the listener. Sure. But at the same time, I think you and I have talked in a lot of episodes about the fact that there's a lot of people that are diagnosed with different types of

mental illness. You know, they deal with it. They figure out a way to either, you know, get therapy, get medication, whatever it is they need to do. Am I thinking that those people are going to go out and kill someone. I don't think about it like that. No, no. But I get where she's coming from because I do think there are some people that look at mental illness and they do vilify it and think that it's possibly going to lead to something that it's not going to, if that makes sense. No, it makes perfect sense. We know a lot of people that struggle with mental. We do because you and I talk to a lot of fans. Yeah.

Who have bipolar disorder. Yeah. Been diagnosed with, you know, all kinds of different things. And sometimes it's a struggle more than others for them. And we talk to them about it. And we've had conversations with, with people about it. Yeah. So we try to be very, what's the word?

I think we try to be compassionate about all the different subjects, not just mental illness, but, you know, all the, all the subjects that we. deal with. Hey, look, we all have a lot going on in our lives. Some of us have certain medical conditions. Some of us have other conditions. You know, we all just try to do best we can. At the end of day, that's really all you can do. That's all you can do. Just try to do the best you can. Hi, Mike and Gizzy. This is Kaylee. I'm from Utah. And I just wanted to thank you guys for your show. And I just really enjoy the band you're back and forth. And it's just really kind of calming and funny and, you know, especially when discussing like darker cases.

I just wanted to add that just today I had to call the police on a creepy guy, like crouching the doorway of my apartment. And it turns out he thought he talked to me before and has been waiting in my apartment trying to talk to me and it's just been a whole thing. But it's just been really scary. And so I really appreciate you guys and just talking about cases like that. I'm bringing it to light. And I really appreciate just hearing your input, you know, being like dad's yourselves and things

like that because my dad was the one that finally just called the cops and convinced me to do so. So luckily it's taken care of. But I just wanted to say thank you. And it does make me feel a lot better knowing there's people out there like you guys. I think it's not okay. And you always make sure to voice that in cases of stalking and things like that. And I just wanted to say thank you. So you guys are awesome.

I am team both of you. Have a good day. Keep that head on a swivel. Yeah. Thanks so much for sharing what is a very scary story, the stalking. I've said it before. The stalking scares me. Now, it doesn't scare me personally for myself.

It scares me for my wife. It scares me for my daughter. It scares me for all the female listeners that we have. If you don't have a T-Cat safety whistle, you need to get one. Because I won't let either of my daughters or my wife leave. the house without their T-Cat safety whistle. It will literally blow your eardrums out. It's so loud.

I know you like it. I do like it. Sometimes you just blow it down here when I'm not expecting it and I fall on my share. Well, when you're asleep. Yeah. That's, I deserve it. I know. But that's a scary story.

Not in and of itself, right? What could happen is the scary part. Yeah. What the guy could have been thinking because you don't know that. just to show up unannounced. Right. The guy could say anything. Oh, I thought you were someone else.

I'm that story with, you know, Rebecca. Schaefer. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that was one of, I think, one of the first stalking ones we ever did on TCAT. Right. Very scary story. Yeah.

She just happened to be a celebrity, but still scary. Very. Hey, Mike and Gibby. Chris from Michigan. I'll listen to you guys for, I don't know, maybe a year and a half now. I'm listening to 187 on a true crime. all the time. And Gibby's right, man.

The movie The Hunted with Benicio del Toro. Awesome. From like 2004, I think. And he wasn't in Central Park. I think he's out in Oregon hiding in the rainforest, dude. But yeah, you got the concept great. Awesome movie. Check it out.

Keep the show going. It's awesome. Bye. No, did. So this is the one I was talking about earlier. It cracks me up. He's like, so Gibby's right. Tell me how Gibby was right, other than the fact that there was a movie with Benicio

Del Toro and Tommy Lee Jones. He said it himself. It wasn't in Central Park. It was somewhere out in the Northwest. Yeah. Well, it's because Tommy had another movie he was in Central Park with. I got them a little mixed up, you know? But I did look it up, and it was called the hunted.

And to be honest with you, I've seen it. Yeah. And I didn't remember it until I kind of looked it up on IMDB. You said, kids, get the popcorn. Sit around the TV. Let's watch Gibby's pick of the week. No, I thought I've already seen it. And it wasn't about it.

movie. No, it wasn't bad. It wasn't bad. But how correct you are, hmm, that's up for interpretation, I think. You know. Those two people were in the movie. They were in the movie. I will give you that. She's credit right there. Given. All right, everyone. No mail bag this week. So that is it for another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.