True Crime All The Time - Ronnie Hendrick

Episode Date: June 28, 2021

In August 2000, Pam Shelley, along with her two children, moved to Cuero, Texas with a man she had met named Ronnie Hendrick. Hendrick was both physically and verbally abusive to not only Pam but to her young daughter Kayla as well. On January 6th, 2001, Pam Shelley was shot in the head inside the home she shared with Ronnie. Ronnie and his family told the police that Pam had taken her own life. And he almost got away with murder.Join Mike and Gibby as they discuss Ronnie Hendrick and the murder of Pam Shelley. Pam was getting ready to move back to her home state of Arkansas when she died. At first, police ruled it a suicide because of the story told by Ronnie and his family. It took 15 years, a detective that absolutely would not give up, and Pam's daughter Kayla, to finally expose the truth and bring Ronnie Hendrick to justice.You can help support the show at patreon.com/truecrimeallthetimeVisit the show's website at truecrimeallthetime.com for contact, merchandise, and donation informationIf you're going to CrimeCon 2022, please make sure you use our code TCATT when you buy your tickets and you'll save 15%.An Emash Digital productionSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 239 of the True Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me as always is my partner in True Crime. Mike Gibson, Gibby, how are you? Hey man, I'm doing good. How about yourself? I'm doing really well. You and I are taping fairly early just after Father's Day. We are.

So how was yours? It was good. Mine was as well. I had a really good time. My family kind of went all out, not in the in the form of gifts or. or anything like that, just in really kind of us spending almost the entire weekend together. It really was one of the best Father's Day weekends I've ever had. Well, there you go.

Yeah. We watched a lot of movies and we just felt very connected. It's important to be connected. It is because I think it's harder nowadays. You know, there's so much going on. The kids got their iPhones. Yep. They've got their, the boyfriends and social media.

And they don't always want to hang out with mom and dad. But they did. Everybody likes a good connection every now. Yeah, it was very nice. Let's give shoutouts to our supporters. For Patreon, we had Jen Treb. Hey, Treb. Michelle Elise.

What's going on, Michelle? Sherry Simon. Hey, Sherry. Karen Peterson. What up? Peterson. Shea Riker jumped out at our highest level. Thanks, Shay.

Sim moodly. Well, I appreciate that, Sam. Lisa Taylor. What's going on, L.T. Sherry. Good old Sherry. Paige. Hey, Paige.

Elizabeth Hernandez. Hey, appreciate that, Elizabeth. Jana Shockley. What's going on? Shockley, shockly, shockly. Katanya self jumped out at our highest level. If you're going to be yourself, be Katanya. Okay.

Jessica. Hey, Jessica. Gina Oldendorf. What's going on, Odendorf? Kevin Clark. Hey, appreciate that, Kevin. Samantha Burt. And I think of Kevin, I think of that new show that's out there about pretty much

F. Kevin? No, haven't seen it. You haven't seen it. It's got that girl from, you know, the funny show where they're up in Canada, whether they're, maybe not in Canada. Shitt's Creek? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. How did I know that you were going to start down a path and have no idea, but I would have to glean the information out of your noggin? Because you are just that good. No. Is it on regular television? Yeah, I think AMC. Yeah. Okay. That's cable. AMC and Fox are completely different things. It's on one of those two.

Check your local TV guide. You're cracking me up, man. I don't even know where I left off. Well, we just did Kevin Clark, so. Okay, Samantha. Okay, Samantha. Erica Brown jumped out at our highest level. Appreciate that, Erica.

Desire Deese jumped out of our highest level. What's going on, D.D.? Marshall Hoffman. Appreciate that, Marshall. Caitlin Deanne. Hey, Caitlin. Sarah Mayday. Day or Meday.

I like Maday. Okay, I do too. Yeah. And last but not least, Michelle DeMossi jumped out at our highest level. DeMossi. So we appreciate all that new support. And then if we go back into the Volk Gibbs. Yeah.

This week we selected Renee Boyle. Well, thank you, Renee. Yeah. Been with us a long time. And we really appreciate that long-term support. We had some great PayPal donations as well from Yolanda, Hey, Yolanda. Zoe Dyer.

What's going on, Zoe? Christy Hines. Hey, pretenders. And Annie Cobb. What's going on, Annie? So thanks to all of you as well. Gibbs right now on True Crime All the Time Unsolved, we have an episode out on the Denver Hammer murders.

Some people refer to this as the Aurora Hammer murders, but it's a brutal episode. It really is. It's, man, you will be shaking your head. you're at the edge of your seat. But it's also one of those episodes that it's not solved, but it's about as close as you can get into that arena. Yeah, not technically solved, but they have somebody in custody.

They just haven't gone to trial yet. So I think some of our listeners who can't always handle the unsolved because of the uncertainty, they might be able to handle this one or might enjoy this one. Yeah. All right, buddy, are you ready to get into this episode? of true crime all the time. I am ready. We are talking about a man named Ronnie Hendrick. This was an abuser of women. This is also a man who killed his girlfriend, Pam, and was almost successful

in making the police believe that she had taken her own life. So let's jump right in. On January 6th, 2001, Pamela Shelley died from a gunshot wound to her head. The end of the end. The end of the incident occurred inside her home, and by all accounts, it seemed as though it was a self-inflicted wound. At the time, she was living with her boyfriend, Ronnie Hendrick, far from her home in Arkansas. So because Gibbs, she was so far from home, Ronnie and his family were really the only ones around to talk to the police about Pamela, and they described her as a depressed woman with a history of suicidal tendencies. Yeah, but Pamela's family didn't feel that way. No, they knew that she wasn't suicidal. They didn't believe any of that. Now, I think what they did know

Gibbs was that she wanted to get out of this relationship with Ronnie for 11 years. Pamela's family and one determined investigator fought to expose the truth about Ronnie and Pamela's relationship and managed to turn a closed suicide case into a murder investigation. So obviously we're going to be talking about some people who would not give up on this case. And those are things that we love to hear. Oh man. I think everybody needs somebody like that in their life. Now, here's the thing that kind of jumps out at me, though.

How many cases have been closed? Let's say ruled a suicide, ruled an accident that weren't. And they were buttoned up fairly easily. And kind of everybody went on. But in actuality, somebody was murdered. Oh, yeah. But nobody ever paid the price for the crime. Yeah, I don't know if that number would be,

but I think people would probably be somewhat shocked. Us thinking it's probably higher than most people think. Yeah. Yeah. I agree with you. Pamela Shelley was originally from Ashdown, Arkansas. Most of the people who knew her called her Pam. She was a happy, bubbly person who loved to make other people laugh.

Pam married a young man named Jesse Suggs at the age of 15. So she got married very young. they were deeply in love at the time, but they divorced before Pam's first child was born. Eventually, the two got back together. They ended up having two children, Kayla and Dustin Suggs. And I can see that, Gibbs. You know, you get married at 15. Do you really know what you're in for?

Man, I don't know if I knew what I was in for when I was 19. Yeah, I think I was 22 when I got married. It's a different thing for everyone. You go from, hey, it's just me to, you know, now I'm sharing a space with, you know, even if you lived with somebody before you got married. Right. It's still, there is something different. It is.

About the fact that you're now married. You're committed. You're supposed to spend the rest of your lives together. You made these vows. And, hey, you and I have talked about it before. It's ups and downs. There's bumps in the road. Marriage is not easy.

It is not easy. I suspect it's even harder at the age of 15. So for them to go through a really rough patch but decide, hey, you know what, let's give it another try. We're in love. I kind of get that. Not only at 15, but also in that early age they had their first child together, too. That's really difficult.

Well, we've talked about that as well, right? What type of stressors come from having your first child? There's a lot. According to Kayla, Pam was the greatest mom she could have asked for. She liked to go to football games. She loved dancing and was a great shoulder to cry out. You could always count on her. And I think as a mother, man, that's really what you want your daughter to say about you, right?

You're always there for your children. Sure, yeah. The greatest mother that I could have ever. asked for. I mean, what higher praise is there for a mother? So Pam and Jesse got back together. They were a happy couple for many years. But then Pam met another man named Ronnie Hendrick. His parents lived next door to Pamela's former in-laws, which is how she met him. So she decided to break up with Jesse because she wanted to be with Ronnie. Now, we don't really know the reasons behind this.

The reporting didn't really go into that part of it. But there were some interviews with her family. And from those, it seems like it was a very sudden decision. I mean, this wasn't something that, you know, spanned a long period of time. So I think Gibbs, you can kind of make an inference that she was really kind of smitten with this guy Ronnie Hendrick very quickly.

Well, no doubt about it. I mean, to the point I know in August of 2000, Pam and Ronnie decided to move to Quiro, Texas together, which happened to be Ronnie's hometown. That's a big move. Well, we talked about it, you know, right up front. She was far away from her hometown of Arkansas. Once she got to Quiro, Texas, she didn't have any family there. Now, she was happy when they first got there.

but that happiness didn't last. Number one, I think she missed her family, which a lot of people do. And, you know, my wife experienced this when we moved up to Detroit. Yeah. I don't think you realize the comfort level you have with having all this family close by until you move, let's say, to another state. And you're like, okay, I just can't drive over and see my mom. see my dad. I can talk to him on the phone, but it's not the same. I can't go out to lunch with them.

I can't go shopping with them on a spur of the moment type deal. If I need a babysitter, they're not around. Yeah, that is definitely a big one. So without her family, all she really had was Ronnie and his family, who she didn't know that well. You know, let's face it, this was a whirlwind kind of romance. Everything happened very quickly. quickly. Ronnie lived about one mile away from her parents and Pam was about 800 miles away from hers. Huge difference, right? Yeah. I mean, man. Well, and it's going to become an even bigger difference as we go through the case. Many years later, after her mother died, Kayla did an interview with a detective. And according to her, Ronnie drank a lot. He hit,

Pamela and was verbally abusive as well. Ronnie didn't like Pam's children at all, but he particularly did not like Kayla. As the months passed, this is after they got to Quiro, Texas, Ronnie became physically abusive towards Kayla as well. He would often push her around. Kayla later told detectives that her mom put up with a lot. And she was, was the type of person who could forgive things that were done to her. But once you did something to her children, no, that was it. She wasn't going to stand for that at all. Gloves are off. Yeah. And I think it was that that really caused the breaking point in the relationship between Pam and Ronnie. And, you know, she felt as though she needed to get herself and her children

out of the house. And you're right, because the real breaking point was that in January 2001, Ronnie hit Kayla, and you know that did not go down well. Yeah, I think that was when she really made the actual decision to leave. She told Ronnie and his family that she was leaving, and she began packing up her things to move back to Arkansas. So I don't want to gloss over this, Gives, because it's a important, not only because of what it represents, but also to the case, right? This is an individual who was abusive to the mother, abusive to the daughter, and I think we're talking both physical and verbal abuse. So Pam made, I think what most people would think is a really good decision. Let's get out of this situation. She said, let's get away from this toxicity. Or toxicity. However,

you want to say it. I think it's acceptable to say it a couple of different ways. Depending where you're from. Depending on where you're from. But you know, you and I have broached this subject before. And it is a very sensitive subject. You know, a lot of people ask the question of people who are in abusive relationships. Well, why don't you just leave? And I think maybe you and I had that kind of mentality, let's say maybe early on in the podcast. Yeah. And I. But we've been educated. We have. As we have been with a number of different topics, we've heard from people who have been in those types of relationships who said, guys, it's not that easy.

You can't just always walk away. Number one, there are things that are tying you together. But I think number two and maybe even more importantly, there's the fear factor. Sure. There's danger in making. that decision to leave, that could be what pushes somebody over the edge. So, you know, again, you and I have been educated up on a lot of different topics. We could still use some more. And we try to learn every day. Probably goes without saying Gibbs that Ronnie was not real happy.

No, not at all. When Pam made the decision that she was going to go back to Arkansas, the day she left January 6th, 2001. Ronnie apparently walked around the house making rude comments. He wouldn't lift a finger to help Pam put any of her stuff in the trailer. Well, he had no problem lifting a finger to drink all day. Yeah, apparently he did drink all day. And, you know, like we talk about with a lot of people, it was said that when Ronnie was drinking, He turned into a different person.

I'm not sure regular Ronnie was all that great, but maybe drunk Ronnie was, you know, even much, much worse. So extremely angry. I know Kayla has said that that day was the most angry she had ever seen Ronnie. And that's probably saying something, given the reported amount of physical abuse

that occurred. On January 6th, 2001 at 5.15 p.m., Ronnie's family made a 911 call from his home in Quiro saying that 32-year-old Pamela had been shot. They told the 911 operator that Pamela put a gun to her head and shot herself. Ronnie found her in the bathroom of their home. When the police arrived, Pamela was being driven away in an ambulance. Ronnie. was in the ambulance with her. She was originally taken to Quiro Community Hospital, but her injuries were so severe that she was transferred to Austin. Now, one thing I think we have to point out, Gibbs,

is that Ronnie and Pam lived in a very rural area. So the EMS unit came from another town, and it was later reported that they actually needed help, finding the quickest route to Quiro to get to the home. It tells you how rural they were. Ronnie volunteered to direct the driver to the nearest hospital. So he wasn't there when the police arrived, which meant they couldn't interview him.

They also could not do a gunshot residue test. And, you know, obviously both of these details become extremely important. later on as we go through the episode. Officer Carl Bowen and Deputy Rydell arrived at the scene and they walked around the house to see what they could find. They saw three children in the home, Ronnie's daughter, and then Pamela's two children, Kayla and Dustin. They were hysterical. They couldn't even talk to the officers, which is completely understandable. You know, kids being in that type of situation. I mean, how do they process that Gibbs, especially her two children. Oh, yeah. Bowen and Rydell walked up the driveway and they found the trailer full of Pam's

things. I mean, obviously they could tell. It looked as though someone was either moving in or moving out. They went inside. They entered the master bedroom. Officers found blood on the bathroom floor and the wall. The gun was resting on the counter. And they later learned that the lead paramedic told Ronnie to move the gun out of their way so that they could do their job. Ronnie picked it up with his bare hands. So you know this is going to come into play later as well. Absolutely. But to me, this is an interesting set of events. You have a gunshot victim. Paramedics get on the scene. They've been. They've been told that it was a self-inflicted wound. But either way, they're trying to save this woman's life. They're not treating it as a crime scene. No. As maybe the police would do if someone was dead

lying on a bathroom floor. The paramedics are there to try to save this woman's life, get her to the hospital, do whatever they have to do. And you know they got the narrative from the family that this is a self-inflicted gun wound. And you wonder how that played into their actions. I don't know because like I said, they're there to save this woman's life, but would they have acted differently if they had thought someone else had shot her

and this was a crime scene? Oh, I think for sure. Yeah, maybe. So I mentioned it, right? Ronnie was at the hospital. And so police spoke with his family and got the lowdown on why. What happened, we mentioned it.

They only lived about a mile away, so they were able to get to the house very quickly. They told Officer Bowen that Pamela was in a loving relationship, but she was depressed because she felt as though she was being forced to move back to Arkansas because of her children. Gibbs, they put the blame on Kayla, essentially saying she was a difficult child. She couldn't get along with Ronnie. Things had gotten so bad that they just couldn't live together anymore. And they hinted to police and probably more than hinted that it was Pam's depression. That was the catalyst for her suicide.

So officers, they were getting the information from his family. I don't really know what else they could have gotten. right who else were they going to talk to so based on that i imagine that the initial thinking was she had tried to take her own life there's no way they could have known gibbs that what they were beginning was an 11 year murder investigation now later that night officers did speak to ronnie and they got his official versions of events he said that at 5 p.m. him. Pamela went inside to put on makeup before she left. He was outside on the porch when he heard what sounded like a gunshot. He ran inside and found her bleeding out on the floor from a gunshot

wound to the head. He saw his gun next to her body and he said that he yelled out no, no, no. And this got the attention of the children. But he said he prevented Kalin Dustin from Ceylon. Dustin from C. their mother. And he too told police that Pamela had been very depressed about going back to Arkansas. He made it sound as though she didn't want to. But she felt as though she had to go back. And mainly it was because Ronnie and Kayla didn't get along. But he also added the fact that Pamela's family had a history of suicidal Tennessee's. But he had no idea that Pamela was suicidal. So not only is Ronnie and his family saying that Pamela was depressed, possibly suicidal, he's throwing in there that her family had a history of suicidal tendency. Later that night,

Pamela was declared brain dead. And it was from their home in Arkansas that Pamela's family sat down together and they made the difficult decision to take her off life support. and Gibbs is something that no family wants to go through. Very tough. Anytime you lose a loved one, especially in this type of situation. But what I really want to target in on is this decision that you have to make as a family to take a loved one off life support.

That too cannot be an easy one. No. Now, I think at that point, when somebody is declared brain dead, they're only being kept a lot by life support. They're never coming back, right? Well, as far as they'll never be able to talk, they'll never have any cognitive functions, you can probably keep them alive for some period of time. Yeah, it's a difficult decision for sure.

I've been part of two decisions like that, and they weren't easy. They were the right decision. But it was still very difficult to go through. But yeah, I can't imagine doing it when you're not near that person. Yeah. And I think that would make it even tougher. You're not even in the room. You can't really even say goodbye.

You're having to make this decision states away. Yeah, 800 miles away. And you made a statement that is so true. You know, oftentimes the correct decision is the hardest one to make. All right, Gibbs, let's take a little break to talk about credit card debt. If you're one of those people that dread looking at your credit card statement every month, you're not the only one. High interest rates make it hard to pay off your debt, but Upstart can help. Join the thousands of happy borrowers who made that final payment.

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loan application. Go to upstart.com slash T-Cat. This podcast is sponsored by BetterHelp. If there's something that's interfering with your happiness or is preventing you from achieving your goals, I'm here to tell you right now that Better Help is there for you. Better Help will assess your needs and match you with your own licensed professional therapist. They have a broad range of expertise available, which may not be locally available in many areas. It's also available for clients worldwide. You can schedule weekly video or phone sessions, so you won't have to sit in a waiting room, as with traditional therapy. It's more affordable than

traditional offline counseling and financial aid is available. BetterHelp wants you to start living a happier life today. So visit their website. You can read their testimonials that are posted daily. Visit betterhelp.com slash T-CAT. That's BetterHELP. And join the over one million people. who have taken charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional. They have a special offer for true crime all the time listeners. Get 10% off your first month at betterhelp.com slash teacat. The medical examiner determined that Pam's contact wound was consistent with a self-inflicted wound and her death was ruled a suicide.

The wound was to her right temple, front to back, down to up and left to right. So this is a very common type of wound. Yeah, this is considered kind of a classic suicide wound by most medical examiners. But Officer Carl Bowen was suspicious. Number one, there were noticeable inconsistencies between the story that Ronnie told and the evidence. he had a number of questions. First of all, why did Pam pack up all of her things if she was going to take her own life?

That's a good point. Why would you do that? Secondly, why did she bother to put on makeup right before she ended her life? Yeah. The first one kind of seems very obvious, kind of jumps out at you. Yeah. Anybody that has packed up a U-Haul or a trailer or moved their, stuff, okay, that's not fun.

No. That's a lot of work. If you're already planning something, and in this case, that planning involves taking your life, ending your life, why would you bother doing all of that? The second one is a little more subtle. You know, why put on makeup if you're going to do that? I mean, I'm not going to even change my underwear at that point. You mean more than you do currently?

Well. more often, a change in frequency? Maybe. The other thing that Carl Bowen did was that he talked with Pam's family and friends. And the descriptions that he got of Pam from them, they didn't match Ronnie's at all. So Bowen theorized that the death was either an accident or a homicide. But he did not believe that Pam took her own life and her family. couldn't accept the idea that she would kill herself either.

I bet a big factor in that Gibbs is that they just couldn't believe that she would leave her children. Right. And add on top of that, do it in the home with her children. Yeah, I have a hard time understanding that. I think the last thing that she would want to do would be to try. traumatize her. And, and you know, it's not to say that this doesn't happen. We know it does. But to the detective, to the family, I think these are valid concerns or valid questions that they're

bringing up. And I think the other question that I would have, if the officer knew how the relationship in that household was, how much Ronnie and Kayla did not get along, why would she want to take her life and leave Kayla in that house with him, knowing that her family was so far away. And the fact that he was physically abusive. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that's a good point as well. But Ronnie was the key witness in the case. And Bowen asked Ronnie to come in and take a polygraph test. He agreed, but he missed three different appointments. So he either rescheduled or he just plain failed to show up to the appointment. And eventually, the police were unable to contact him further. It was almost as if he kind of went missing.

Just gone. So years passed and case went cold. But Kayla Suggs couldn't stop thinking about it. You know, at a certain point Gibbs, she became old enough to fully understand kind of what was going on back then, the circumstances. none of it seemed right to her. I'm sure. Just consumed her everyday thoughts, you know? In 2007, Officer Bowen was promoted from patrol captain to investigator, but he never forgot about Pam's case. In January 2008, he approached Michael Shepard, the DA for the 24th Judicial District of Texas,

and he asked to reopen the case. Shepard didn't have a problem with it. Obviously, there's no statute of limitations for murder, but he did tell Bowen that he would need very strong evidence. But if he could get that evidence, they might have a chance of charging Ronnie with murder. Now, it's been seven years. Makes it a little tougher. It does make a little tougher. And I think it also makes it tougher because of how things kind of went down that night.

You know, at the crime scene, some things we've already talked about. I mean, one of the things that jumps out of me right away, Ronnie's fingerprints are going to be all over that gun. Sure. Because the paramedics asked him to move it out of the way. Right. So Gibbs, what Bowen decided to do was looking to Ronnie's past. And what he found was a history of abusive behavior towards women.

He also found that Ronnie had problems with alcohol. So anything surprising there? Shocked. I know you're being facetious. But my thinking is, you know, Ronnie just doesn't start out all of a sudden with this relationship with Pam being abusive. Probably not hard to figure out that there's a pattern that you can find. Right. Going back through previous relationships, Bowen learned that the day before Pam died, Ronnie gave her a black eye.

that was so severe she had to go to the emergency room. Gibbs, I've had a black eye. You've probably had one. I mean, from horsing around or getting into fights or whatever, you know, the ones that I've had,

they just kind of go away, looks nasty and then it turns yellow and then it goes away. This one was so bad that nurses had to open and drain the wound. Kind of like the ones you see during the boxing matches. Yeah. Yeah. maybe maybe something like that now Pam told them that she hit her eye on a coffee table and you know sadly this is something that we hear quite a bit victims of abuse saying that they fell they hit

a door things like that now why do they say that stuff fear they're fear yeah they're afraid they're afraid to tell the truth because they're afraid of the consequences once they get home. Bowen also learned that Ronnie went to South Dakota after he disappeared and while he was there, he was charged with a felony DWI. So Bowen didn't really have a hard time Gibbs finding Ronnie. In the spring of 2008, he was arrested on domestic abuse charges in Texas and held in the DeWitt County Jail. So, you know, I go back to my earlier statement. You know, Would it be shocking to find out that he had a history of domestic abuse? No.

Is it now shocking to find out that he continued to be an abuser after Pam was dead in subsequent relationships? No, it's not a shock to me at all. It's also not a shock to me that he wound up with a felony DWI. if he was as big a drinker as, you know, most people said he was. So once Bowen found him, he re-interviewed him to see if his story had changed over the years. The interview took place on May 27th, 2008. But Ronnie's story pretty much matched his 2001 story.

So Bowen told him that, you know, really you need to take a polygraph. that would really help you prove your case. And Ronnie told him that he was willing to do anything. And he agreed to take the polygraph the next day. Ronnie traveled to Austin for the polygraph. But Bowen was headed somewhere else. He traveled to Ashdown, Arkansas to talk with Pamela's family. And it was about six hours into his drive that the polygrapher called him and said that

Ronnie failed the polygraph on every level. Yeah. On every level. It's not good. I don't know how many different levels there are, but basically he failed it as bad as you can fail. It is what I'm taking from that. And I know there's so many different factors that go into polygraphs and are they valid,

not valid. But still, it's a, it's a tool for law enforcement to use to gauge the person's story, right? Yeah, we don't put as much faith into them as we used to, But, you know, if someone fails, are you going to want to look into them more? I would say, yeah. Should you automatically assume that someone's innocent or guilty based off of it? I don't think so.

I think it's got to be paired with other evidence or maybe it leads you to want to look at somebody a little harder. When Bowen got to Arkansas, he spoke to Kayla, who by this time was 19 years old. And Gibbs, I just think she was happy that someone, someone was finally coming to talk to her, was finally willing to listen to her. Yeah. And this was going to be her first chance to make an official statement to the police. Yeah. She had never made one. Now, granted, she was a minor at the time that her mom died.

She told Bowen that Ronnie was physically and verbally abusive. He drank a lot and he abused both her and her mother. He asked her to describe exactly what happened on January 6, 2001. Kayla told him she was sitting on the couch when she heard a scream and then a gunshot. She got up and she ran to the bedroom. She opened the door and she saw her mom lying on the bathroom floor and Ronnie standing in the doorway. She said that her mom's eyes were closed. Ronnie told her to get out. Now initially, Kayla thought Ronnie assaulted her mom.

Kayla told Bowen that her mom would never shoot herself. And as you said, Gives, she would never leave us there with Ronnie. She was a good mom. And if she was going to kill herself, she would not have done it while we didn't have any type of family there. She would have made sure that, we were taking care of first. She would have never put us in danger. I think a lot of people were shaking their heads right now agreeing with what Kayla said that her mom would not have left her and her brother with Ronnie. With this man that was beating them.

Yeah. And creating such a hostile environment. I don't think there was any dispute, Gibbs, that she was a good mother. everything in the research pointed to that. What good mother would put their children in that situation? It just wouldn't happen. Now, it's not to say that people don't get depressed. It's not to say that people don't take their own lives.

And it's not to say that a mother is not capable of doing that. I think what we're saying is that more likely than not, if she was going to do that, she would have made a plan for her children. Absolutely. And not leave them there with Ronnie or his family. On May 29th, the day after Ronnie took his polygraph, he called his aunt from jail. And apparently Gibbs, he told her that he lied to the police. He was in the house when Pamela was shot. And again, this is something that you and I talk about quite a bit.

If you're making a phone call from jail or prison. Yeah. How do you not know that those phones? calls are being recorded and that if somebody's looking at you, they're probably going to be monitoring that phone call to see what you say. We've received emails and messages from people that have been in jail and have visited people in jail and they say there's plaques right above the wall where the phones are that clearly state that these calls are being monitored and recorded. Plaques? Placks? Placks. Well, you know, the little sticky thing. Like a placard maybe? Or

Or, okay, a sign. Yeah, a sign. Because to me, a plaque is like you're the world's greatest bowler or bowler of the year. Those are in the real expensive prisons. I don't think. Really nice wood plaques. I don't think there's a lot of plaques. But the prison.

Plackerds. In general, pop. Let's put it that way. Exactly. Maybe in the warden's office. He's got some plaques. Yeah, that's true, because they don't want you to pull it off the wall and use it as a weapon. Exactly.

Yeah. So Bowen went to interview Ronnie again, just the next day. Ronnie was adamant. He kept with his story that Pam had killed herself. But at this point, Bowen wasn't buying it. And he accused Ronnie of lying and of killing Pam. And it was at that point that Ronnie asked for a lawyer. The problem Gibbs is even though he had his suspicions, he didn't have enough evidence to arrest Ronnie, to, to, to charge him. So the case went cold again. And then in 2012, producers for the show Cold Justice reached out to Bowen about Pam's case.

Probably most people listening have seen cold justice. It's a good show. I like it. Yeah, we did episode on Unsolved where they helped get a case back in the spotlight and back to trial. At that time, the trial had not commenced,

but it was headed in that direction. Yeah. So Bowen went back to the DA and he asked if he could work with the show. He was granted permission, even though the DA said that he thought it wouldn't do much. It wasn't going to be a lot of help. Host Kelly Siegler and Yolanda McClary came to Quiro in June 2012. Kelly Siegler and her team went to the crime scene. They interviewed witnesses and they worked on. gathering evidence.

The other thing they did was they looked into Pamela's medical history, and they didn't find any type of history of depression. She was taking medication for seizures, but none of the side effects were depression. They also looked at Ronnie's record, found out probably pretty easily that Ronnie had assaulted women before and after Pam, and that he had almost killed one. of his previous partners. Some of the first people they interviewed were the EMTs, who came to the house on January 6th, 2001. Gibbs, we already talked about it, but these EMTs assumed they were responding to a suicide. I mean, first of all, that was what was relayed on the 911 call made by

Ronnie's parents. I think everybody kind of probably mentioned that too at the house. Now, the problem that they ran into was that the recordings from the dispatch were gone by this time. So we don't really know what was actually said. Right. When they arrived, Pam was laying on the bathroom floor. The gun was on the floor and there were two people in the room. No one was attempting CPR and no one at the scene had any blood on them that would have showed that they tried to touch Pam or help her in any way. So I think you're going to agree with me that if that was somebody you loved and they just shot themselves, you would be on the ground with your hand over the wound or, you know, cuddling, picking them up, you know, just holding them, performing CPR or doing whatever.

Not just staying away or standing up and just looking down at them. And I can tell you, even knowing all the things we now know from having researched all the cases we've, done, I would still do that. Yeah. I wouldn't worry about, okay, are they going to think I'm a suspect? My only thought would be, how do I help my wife, my loved one, whoever it is. Yeah, because she's still alive. But to me, it's very telling.

When you have people at the scene without an ounce of blood on them, it's apparent. They didn't try to help her at all. And I think you have to question that. In my mind, it just keeps going back to the fact that we knew she was alive, laying on the floor, bleeding out. Why wouldn't you want to comfort that person until help arrived? Or as you said earlier, you know, maybe put your hand on the wound, try to keep the blood from flowing out, something. Anything. You're not a doctor, but you're going to do whatever you think you can do.

It is my way of thinking. They next spoke to Kayla and they asked her to run through what happened that day. she said she and her mother cleaned the house. Pam cooked everyone lunch. Ronnie came home drunk and he kept pestering. He kept bothering her mother, Pam. Pam asked him to leave her alone and he told her to get out of the house. She asked him if she could stay until the next day. But he told her she had to get out now. So Pam told Kayla and Dustin to put on their shoes and then Ronnie hit Kayla and she fell down. Pam jumped into action and she began fighting with Ronnie and he grabbed her hair and need her in the eye. She said that she and Dustin were in the living room when Kayla heard a scream and a gunshot.

She saw her mom on the bathroom floor. Kayla said that she tried to go in and she wanted to perform. CPR, but Ronnie kicked her out of the room. So none of the adults, whoever's there, is going to try to lift a finger. Right. But this young girl knows in her head that she needs to do something. So makes you wonder, what's wrong with these adults, man? Why can't they figure out that they need to do something? Well, and maybe it's because they didn't want to do anything. I think that's probably what we're going to find out. Yeah. The folks from Cold Justice spoke to Ronnie's family. And, you know, Gibbs, their statements were inconsistent.

Ronnie's mother, Debbie, said that Ronnie didn't want Pam to leave. He loved her and would never hurt her. She also said that she and Ronnie were the first ones in the house after Pam shot herself. But Debbie said she attempted to perform CPR on Pam. So again, when you look at some of these statements coupled with what we know the EMT said something's not lining up. Well, I think we're going to hear all kinds of stories about how different people attempted CPR. And Gibbs, we mentioned it towards the beginning of the episode. Rural area, it took the EMTs some time to get there. Ronnie's brothers, Michael and Shannon,

were hunting doves that day. And they heard shouting at the house. And they saw Ronnie run out. and he told them that Pam had shot herself. So they all went inside together. And Michael said that he attempted to perform CPR. He also told the cold justice group that suicide ran in Pam's family and that she had tried to end her life before. And everybody knows a lot about Pam's previous life. They do. And apparently Gibbs at some point a game warden showed up on the scene.

and Shannon told this game warden that Michael attempted to help Ronnie revive Pam, but he didn't see it because he was outside with the children. He also said that the game warden checked for gunshot residue on Ronnie's hands. But this turned out not to be true. So we've mentioned it, right? A lot of conflicting stories, inconsistent statements. Ronnie stepdad Cecil said that Michael in dead. didn't have any blood on them after they both said that they touched Pam and tried to perform

CPR. I don't know how you could even attempt CPR and not end up covered in blood. Yeah. You have some type of blood on you. You would have to. The cold justice team talked to Pam's family and friends and basically all of them contradicted just about everything that Ronnie's family said. The thought that Pam had tried to end her life before, everyone said that wasn't true. Pam's brother Donald said he spoke to her once a week. And while she admitted things were bad at the house, she never once mentioned anything about being suicidal. The team had the gun sent in for touch DNA testing, which would show who used or handled the gun. DNA analysis. DNA analysis. found nothing on the weapon.

Like it was cleaned? Yeah. I mean, I don't know what other conclusion you could draw. I mean, if you believe even the story that Ronnie told, right, Pam touched the gun that day, he touched the gun when he moved it from the floor to the counter. Ronnie also owned the gun and apparently used it often. So there should have been. DNA on there. And you would think most likely both Pam's DNA and Ronnie's DNA. It was almost as though someone made an effort to clean this gun. And it was because of this new evidence, the medical

examiner changed the cause of death to undetermined. But they still didn't have enough evidence to charge anyone with murder. In August 2012, Bowen went back to Arkansas to speak to Pam's former mother-in-law Shirley Suggs. Shirley told him that Pam and Jesse had an argument and that she decided she wanted to go to Texas with Ronnie. But she and Jesse remained in constant contact. Jesse even bought Pam a cell phone so that they could continue speaking. At the end of 2000, Pam planned to go back to Jesse.

She told him that she and Ronnie were arguing and she wanted to come home and get back together with him. During one of these phone calls with Jesse, Ronnie interrupted and took the phone from Pam. And apparently Gibbs, he told Jesse on the phone that the only way she was coming back to Arkansas was in a pine box. Not really sure how you get much more threatening than that. That's pretty threatening. And Bowen was able to talk with Jesse and Jesse confirmed this story.

Jesse told him that he and Pam were married for a long time. They got divorced. They got back together. And they lived together for a number of years until she left him for Ronnie. Jesse also told Bowen that he knew everything about the physical abuse because he had been talking with her. He said that Pam told him she was tired of living with Ronnie because of the abuse and how he treated her children.

And then obviously he had this statement of. about the only way she was coming back to Arkansas was in a pine box. So, you know, that's a direct threat. And I think Bowen took that as, okay, now we've got some motives. Sure. Yeah. But he did ask Jesse, hey, if you knew all this back then, why did you wait till now and to bring it up?

And Jesse said, nobody ever talked to me. Nobody asked. Until now. You're the first person to. come talk to me. Jesse agreed to testify against Ronnie in court, being one of the last people to talk to Pam. The problem was, you know, Jesse had been in quite a bit of trouble. He's got his own issues. He was in jail, I think, at the time that he had his interview with Bowen. He was a repeat offender for theft and weapon charges. So obviously Gibbs, the defense would try to attack him, try to discredit.

his testimony, Jesse could only testify if he passed a polygraph. Which he did. Yeah, he took it and he passed it. So now they have a motive and they have a credible witness. So Bowen and his team went before a grand jury. And in the fall of 2012, Ronnie was indicted for murder. His trial was set for September 2013. Bowen's theory was that Ronnie got up from where he was sitting on the

the porch. He got his pistol from the bedroom and he snuck up behind Pam while she was putting on makeup and he shot her in the head. While prepping for the trial, prosecutors learned that about an hour passed from the time when Pam was shot until the time that EMS was called. Okay. Now you've got a problem. If that's true. Yeah. It's one thing not to try to help. It's one. It's one. one thing to, you know, not try to perform CPR. But who in the world Gibbs waits an hour after they say someone has shot themselves to call for help? And you know exactly what the authorities are thinking.

Well, that hour was used to get everyone together. Ronnie, his family. And let's go over what we're going to say. let's move things around the crime scene to make sure that it appears as we wanted to. Let's make sure everybody repeats that she was suicidal, that she had tendencies to do that. That she'd tried it before, even though that was later refuted. I think this was kind of a big bombshell, and I'm not sure why it came out so many years later. And maybe it was just because of the ruling. You know, they didn't look into those records because there really was no murder investigation.

The episode of Cold Justice premiered September 3rd, 2013, just about a week before the trial. So that's a pretty good timing. But what it did was it made it extremely difficult to get an unbiased jury. Because obviously, if you watch the episode of Cold Justice, they're not going to be real. sympathetic. Right. They've uncovered all these facts. Everything's pointing to, hey, something's wrong here. And the something wrong has to do with Ronnie and his family and all this. So the court declared a mistrial because after jury selection, they thought, you know, there's just no way. This jury is going to be bias. And a third of the jury pool admitted to watching the show and said that they'd already made up

their minds about Ron. Well, that's not good, right? That's not how you want the system to work. You want to get to the truth, sure, but you don't want jurors to be biased. Now, do you ever truly have an unbiased jury in a fairly high profile case? It's kind of hard, I think. But that's what you're striving for. So the judge set a new trial for June 2014. So in between that time, the DA went to Ronnie's defense attorney to try to convince him to plead guilty. They laid out all of the evidence they had and said that if Ronnie pleaded guilty, he'd get a 22-year sentence. Bowen spoke to Pamela's family to see if they would accept the plea. If they said yes, Ronnie would get 22 years. if he accepted. If they said no, he'd have to go to trial. At first, Kayla was unwilling to accept it.

And I think the rest of the family was hesitant to because they just didn't think 22 years was long enough for what Ronnie had done. But Kayla's brother, Dustin, told her that, you know, this was a sure thing. Trial was not a sure thing. So you can look at it as 22 years. versus maybe nothing. And I think it was based on that that Kayla agreed. Tough decision for a family. Very tough. You and I talk about sentence links a lot.

And that's just you and I talking kind of from a spectator's view. If you're an actual family member of the victim, you have a much different view. You want someone to pay. And most likely you want. want them to either spend the rest of their life in prison or be put to death for a murder like this. But I do think you have to look at the uncertainty of a jury trial. We've seen jury trials go all kinds of different ways. Juries are fickle. They may latch on to something. And let's be

honest, it really just takes one person, right? In a murder trial to not be convinced that, the prosecution has proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt. I think you've got to look towards the prosecutor's office for direction. They're in the trenches every day. They know what's going on. They know the odds. And I do believe they want the best for the family. I think most do.

And, you know, I think they felt as though they had a very strong case. But kind of piggybacking off what you just said, I think there's also times where you don't want to have to put the family through a long, drawn out trial where they're going to hear some really nasty stuff, right? The defense is going to attack Pam's character. Right. You know that's going to happen. They're going to say she was depressed. They're going to say that she had either tried to end her life or that she was planning to end

her life. So do you want her children and the rest of her family to have to sit through that? Well, that's up to them a lot of the time. But the prosecutor is going to be very sympathetic, I think, to their wishes. On June 10th, 2013, Ronnie pleaded guilty and was sentenced to 22 years in prison with the possibility of parole. On April 12th, 2018, Ronnie filed a petition for or a rid of mandamus. And this is something I'd never heard of before Gibbs. Apparently, it's an order from a court to a government official ordering them to properly fulfill their duties or correct a mistake.

It's basically an alternative to a direct appeal. He requested the trial court to rule on his request for counsel and his request for post-conviction DNA testing. the court ruled that he didn't meet his burden to obtain relief and they rejected his petition. Ronnie is currently held at the Alfred Hughes Correctional Facility. He will be released Gibbs, I think, at the latest on October 2nd, 2013. But he's eligible for parole on October 2nd, 2023. Yeah, just like two and a half years from now.

Yeah. if he's denied parole, he'll be in jail until he's 60 years old. Well, the good news is for Pamela's family. He's in jail. They don't need to go to trial. They can move on with their lives. Not really put this behind them, but you know what I mean. It's not going to be lingering there.

Yeah. Can you ever really put it behind you? I say no. But, I mean, if you look at the flip side of this Gibbs, what could have happened. This could have been ruled a suicide. never changed and this guy would have gotten away with murder. Yeah, because he almost did. He almost did.

As we wrap up this case, you kind of look at it and you think, well, Pamela was alone in Texas. She had no family. She didn't even have like really an advocate for her after her murder. And it was because of that that Ronnie and his family were able to convince the police that she was depressed, she was suicidal, and she took her life. And to me, if it wasn't for the work of Sheriff Bowen and Pam's daughter, Kayla, I think there's a very good chance that Ronnie would not have had to pay for what he did. You really have to give them both a ton of credit. Oh, for sure. Because I feel like this Bowen guy, I mean, he was like a dog with the bone. He was like a dog with the bone.

would not drop it. And he probably very easily could have and maybe others would have. And it would have been just kind of a lingering thing in the office or I don't even know if it would be a cold case file because it wasn't designated or declared a murder. Yeah. I mean, definitely it was a suicide. So there was no case. Right. It's just it's like he didn't. believe it and he wouldn't let it go and he worked on it for years and years and years. No doubt. Domestic violence is a serious issue that affects millions of women around the world. And let's not forget, it affects men as well. I think Pamela's case is a sad example of what can happen when women are trapped in abusive relationships with violent men. If you're listening right now and you're

suffering any type of domestic abuse. Gibby and I urge you to seek help. You can call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233. Tough case. I think, you know, that any time you're talking about someone trapped in this type of, you know, domestic violence, vicious cycle. Yeah. It's rough. Sure. You know, to me, me adding on top of what Pam went through is what Kayla experienced as well. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And I truly believe it was that that caused Pam to say, that's it. I'm not going to put up with it. You're not going to hurt my children. I'm getting the heck out of here. And that's why Ronnie killed her. Yeah. Very sad. But that's it for our case on

Ronnie Hendrick and the murder of Pamela Shelley. We've got some voicemails Gibbs. You want to check those out? Let's hear him. Hello, Mike and Gibby. My name is Jenna, and I'm calling from Northeast Pennsylvania. I'm a rather new listener, having found your podcast about six months ago, but you guys have quickly become my very favorite true crime podcast for many reasons.

Your factual and detail-oriented form of delivery for these horrific stories is very much appreciated, as is the fact that you don't concentrate. drop F-bombs in the conversation. I hate nothing more than filthy mouth podcasters. I turn those off right away. Also, your true empathy for the victims and the respectful way that you tell their stories is really what makes your podcast stand out from all the rest. I always recommend you when someone asks me for a good podcast recommendation.

I have a couple case suggestions for you, and I haven't yet listened to all of your episodes, so perhaps you might have covered these already. but case number one, the Salcido family massacre in California in 1989. Ramon Salcido, a vineyard worker, killed his wife, several in-laws, and split the throats of his daughters, leaving them to die in a garbage dump, but one of the girls survived. I have a distant connection to this case as my husband's grandmother knew the family when she lived in Orange County, and my husband distantly knew, I believe it was one of the family cousins who was deeply affected by the murders when he was in high school. Case number two, the murder and dismemberment of Tara Grant by her husband Stephen in Washington Township, Michigan.

Truly fascinating and gory case. Thank you for a great podcast and keep your own time picking. Whoa. We definitely appreciate those kind words. Yeah. Yeah, we do pretty good on keeping the language. I mean, every now and then. This slides out because of how frustrated we are.

Right, right. we're not trying to see how many cuss words we can get into an episode. If it slips out, it slips out, but it's organic. We're definitely not trying to force. And it's not like you and I cuss a lot anyway. Gosh darn it. Just naturally. Yeah.

But I don't think we've done either of those cases. They sound intriguing. Yeah. We'll definitely check them out. Thank you. Hi, Mike. Hi, Debbie. This is Victoria Myers from Bernie, Texas again.

I just wanted to call and say that I'm actually, I'm currently listening to episode number 86 about Daniel Rackowitz. And the part when Givie says that this song says Tanya dance or whatever, I, oh my goodness, I was laughing so much because Givie, don't feel bad, because my entire life, I always thought that he was saying Tony Danza, not Tiny Dancer. I actually figured that out a couple years ago, and I was a little embarrassed. But even if I try, I can't, I can't bring myself to say Tiny Dancer. It'll always be Tony Danza. Anyways, I just needed to pause the episode and show. share this with you guys because I just thought it was hilarious. Keep up the good work, guys.

Love you. Be safe and keep your own time picking. Yeah, that's been one of the biggest ones, Gibbs, over the years, your tiny dancer flub. People have gotten a big kick out of it. And it's so funny to hear that people are now listening to it. You know, you and I probably talked about it, what, two or three years ago? I have no idea how old that episode is.

I love it because that means new people are finding the show. They're listening to it for the first time. And we had all kinds of conversations about different songs and what we thought they meant. And I still feel the same way. I still sing it the same way. Well, I'd always have. Won't you give us a little bit of it? You got to pay extra for that, buddy.

Hi, y'all. It's Mike from Dallas. Been a long time listening to both podcasts. also listen to criminology. Mike, love those episodes on GSK. Y'all did. But you guys help to get through this 12-hour shift that I'll do. I like to suggest the case, it's out of Milioquian, Texas.

It's about 30 miles from Dallas. My best friend's dad was telling me about some kids that he was in school with. They ended up killing this undercover cop named George Rayfield. The police department was doing like a 21 Jump Street file, a sting operation. The kids found out, ended up killing the cop. It's a really interesting taste. I don't have to hear you guys.

Hey, doggy. But anyways, just wanted to say, love the show. I have no favorite mic because, you know, all us mics are awesome. Anyways, you guys stay safe. Dude, you're all the time speaking, and y'all take it easy. Bye. Wow, it sounds like another one we should look into. Yeah.

And mics are awesome. We are. All of us. And I did a guest appearance on 21 Jump Street. You did. You were Johnny Depp's, grandfather. Aren't you?

You had to go. You were trying to think of a comeback. I was watching your face and it was like, are you going to get it? Are you going to get it? You couldn't do it. No. All right, buddy. We had no mail bag this week.

So that's it. Yeah. For another episode of true crime all the time. So for Mike and Gabi, stay safe and keep your own time ticking.